The Story – INVESTIGATION: On the line - Mike

Podcast by The Times
Episode Date: March 24, 2026
Host: David Wood (Crime Editor, The Times)
Main Interviewee: “Mike” (Pseudonym, former County Lines drug runner)

Episode Overview

This episode, part of The Times’ in-depth investigative series on County Lines gangs, features a rare and candid interview with “Mike,” a young man who became involved in County Lines drug running as a teenager. Host and crime editor David Wood explores Mike’s journey: how he was drawn into the world of drugs, his experiences at the sharp end of exploitation, his eventual arrest, and the support that helped him escape. The account gives listeners a firsthand perspective of the mechanics of grooming, exploitation, and survival in a system that preys on vulnerable youths.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Early Life and First Encounters (03:35–08:00)

• Mike describes a typical, fun, if “rough” childhood growing up in a less affluent part of London, witnessing violence on a regular basis.
• Exposure to Gangs: At 15 or 16, Mike is propositioned by an older man outside a Morley’s chicken shop, who offers him hundreds of pounds to do drug errands.
• His initial task is to hand out drugs (crack and heroin) to buyers at a trap house, where he stays for several days, surviving on minimal food and no change of clothes.
• Quote:

  “From that young age it really did entice me because like I said, I never really had that back then.” – Mike (05:00)

2. Life in the Trap House – Psychological and Physical Toll (05:31–07:14)

• Mike spends successive days inside unsanitary, dangerous trap houses, quickly realizing the grim reality.
• He lies to his family to hide his absence, juggling excuses to avoid suspicion.
• The exploitative nature of the work is apparent, but at the time, the money overshadows the dangers.

3. Cycle of Exploitation and Power Imbalance (07:47–10:55)

• Mike reflects, only in hindsight, that he was “blinded” to how he was being used.
• Despite wanting to stop, persistent pressure and intimidation draw him back in.
• Quote:

  “I couldn’t really get out of it in a way, because he was just always there... He did used to rough me about a little bit to kind of like, make sure that he knew that he was serious. It was a bit scary…” – Mike (10:23)

4. Balancing Family Life and Secrecy (11:38–13:14)

• Mike’s relationship with his mother is decent but distant—he hides the truth to spare her worry.
• Increasing suspicion and pressure from his mother as she picks up on his absences and behavioral changes.

5. Peer Pressure and Escalating Involvement (13:32–15:03)

• The normalization of this lifestyle among peers keeps him involved; he chases money and approval.
• Fear is a constant undercurrent, especially when dealing with aggressive addicts.

6. Discovery and Forced Relocation (15:03–16:28)

• After his parents discover evidence of his activities, they relocate the family to the Midlands in an attempt to provide a fresh start.
• Mike initially resists, feels isolated and “back being broke again,” but is still drawn to criminal activity.

7. History Repeats in New Town (16:40–18:11)

• Within weeks of moving, Mike meets another older man in his new area; starts by selling cannabis, quickly escalates to dealing heroin and crack again when the money from weed proves insufficient.
• Quote:

  “I realized I wasn't making nowhere near as much as I was selling cracking heroin. So I did eventually transition over to doing that again.” – Mike (17:36)

8. Being Sent Across the Country (20:08–21:20)

• Mike is moved by gangs between towns (Middlewich, Cardiff, Telford) to deal drugs. He describes the fear of transporting high-value drugs on trains, sometimes urged to “bank” (conceal) drugs within his body.

9. Turning Points: Close Calls and Arrest (21:32–24:14)

• A near-arrest in Cardiff when police arrive minutes after he flees, followed by eventual arrest and charging in Cheshire.
• Realization dawns as police inform him he’s expendable, learning the property he worked in had been raided before.
• Memorable Quote:

  “He really did kind of like treat me as another expendable guy just for his own gain.” – Mike (24:14)

10. Manipulation Around Age and the Law (25:18–25:51)

• Older gang members assure young recruits they’re less likely to be punished harshly due to their age, which is used as a grooming tool and to keep them in the cycle.

11. Mentorship and the Road to Recovery (26:28–28:13)

• While awaiting court, he’s assigned a mentor, Nikki from St Giles Trust, whose candid, supportive lectures plant the seeds for change.
• Mike opens up to Nikki in ways he couldn’t with his family; begins contemplating a different future, credits her support for helping him shift his mindset.
• Quote:

  “She would tell me about how it's not worth it and the consequences of it... I started thinking about what my life would be like if I had a normal job, if I wasn't doing all these things that I did before.” – Mike (27:13)

12. Final Straws: Court, Community Service, and Violence (28:16–29:54)

• In court, faces terror but avoids prison—receives community service.
• Continues contact with former criminal acquaintances, until he is violently attacked (stabbed) by old associates after trying to leave the lifestyle.
• The attack, alongside Nikki’s guidance, becomes a critical moment of deeper realization.

13. Reflections on Victimhood and Exploitation (30:56–32:52)

• Mike did not see himself as a victim during his involvement, only understanding his exploitation in hindsight.
• Recognizes now how manipulation, normalization, and peer pressure clouded his judgement and agency:

  “When you're in that type of lifestyle and doing them type of things, you really don't see things clearly. Like, you don't really see right from wrong, because what... What you're doing now you often think is right, and that's only because of what's around you, the peer pressure...” – Mike (31:36)

14. Hopes, Advice, and the Need for Support (33:30–36:13)

• Mike considers himself lucky for having support, worries for countless others without intervention.
• Advice to parents: cultivate strong, open relationships and be vigilant.
• Expresses a desire to help others:

  “I just want to live a peaceful life. To be fair, I do want to help kids, people who was in my situation... there’s really and truly a rabbit hole when it comes to young people doing county lines.” – Mike (34:49, 36:13)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On feeling empowered by money, and addiction to ‘pride’:

  “I kind of felt a bit too prideful... I was really enjoying it at the time, I'm afraid.” – Mike (11:21)

• On violence and fear:

  “Sometimes [addicts] would get a bit aggy... I would just give them like a free item... because I just didn't want the problems.” – Mike (13:58)

• On realization and change:

  “I know when we're in that lifestyle, it's like you're under a spell. You really don't think straight.” – Mike (36:06)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Early Life, First Approach: 03:35–05:04
• Trap House Experiences: 05:13–06:52
• Power Imbalance & Intimidation: 07:47–10:55
• Family Dynamics: 11:38–12:56
• Peer Pressure: 13:32–15:03
• Family Intervention & Move: 15:03–16:28
• Restarting in Midlands: 16:40–18:11
• Cross-country Drug Running: 20:08–21:20
• Close Calls & Arrest: 21:32–24:14
• Mentorship Impact: 26:28–28:13
• Stabbing, Aftermath: 28:51–29:54
• Reflections on Exploitation: 30:56–32:52
• Advice & Hopes: 33:30–36:13

Tone & Style

The conversation is frank, insightful, and raw. Mike’s language is conversational, humble, and often introspective. His account oscillates between matter-of-fact recounting and moments of emotional intensity—regret, pride, shame, and a growing desire for peace and purpose.

David Wood asks compassionate but probing questions, guiding Mike through a narrative that underscores the systemic nature of exploitation and the urgent need for supportive intervention.

Conclusion

This episode provides a gripping, firsthand look at the lived reality of County Lines grooming and exploitation in Britain. Mike’s story is both cautionary and hopeful—illustrating, through his words and experiences, how easy it is for vulnerable youth to be ensnared, and how critical timely support is in breaking the cycle.

For parents, professionals, and anyone curious about the mechanics and consequences of County Lines, Mike’s account is essential listening—grounded, thoughtful, and ultimately a powerful testament to resilience and the possibility of change.

Next Episode Preview:
The series will conclude with discussions featuring politicians and police on tackling County Lines and preventing exploitation.