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A
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people don't realize how much of their personal information is being bought and sold. Every day. Data brokers are making billions pulling details about you from public records and the Internet, then packaging and selling it, usually without your consent. That's how your information lands in the hands of scammers, spammers, even stalkers. It's why you get endless robocalls and why ads seem to follow you everywhere. That's where Aura comes in. Aura actively removes your data from broker sites and keeps it off. They also instantly alert you if your information shows up in a breach or on the dark web. But Aura goes beyond data protection. With one app you get a vpn, antivirus, password manager, spam call protection, Dark web monitoring, and even up to $5 million in identity theft insurance. All backed by 24. 7 US based fraud support. Other companies might sell just credit monitoring or even just a vpn. Aura gives you all of together at the same price competitors charge for just one service. Start your free trial today at aura.com safety protect yourself now@aura.com safety.
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C
Hello, it's Luke here.
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D
After development in investigation into Andrew Mountbatten Windsor, we have a bonus episode for you this afternoon courtesy of our colleagues on the Royals podcast.
- [02:30]
C
Hello and welcome to a special bonus edition of the Royals. I'm Roya Neekar. Well, it's been a major 24 hours in the story surrounding Andrew Mountbatten Windsor with two very significant developments. First, we learn this morning that Thames Valley police investigation into allegations of potential misconduct in public office includes looking at Andrew's wider behaviour during his time as Britain's trade envoy. The Times understands that potential allegations under consideration include sexual misconduct and corruption. And that announcement came just after newly released government files that shed new light on how Andrew came to be given that role in the first place, including the detail that it was the late Queen's wish he should take on this prominent public position. As always, we should note, Andrew has not been charged with any offence and has consistently denied any wrongdoing. Well, to dig into all of this, I'm delighted to be joined for the bonus episode by the Sunday Times new Whitehall correspondent, Katie Tarrant. Katie, welcome to the Royals.
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E
Thanks so much for having me.
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C
But first, we've got an update from Fiona Hamilton in this morning, who is chief news correspondent for the Times, and she can give us the latest from the Thames Valley police briefing.
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F
Detectives at Thames Valley Police are appealing for potential victims and witnesses to come forward in a public appeal related to their inquiry into Andrew Mountbatten Windsor, the former Duke of York. The Times understands that detectives are considering potential offences involving Andrew, including sexual misconduct and corruption. Thames Valley Police are really keen to emphasise that they are examining a wide range of potential crimes that fall under the broad banner of misconduct in public office. And they've emphasised that it is a crime that can take different forms. These can involve sexual misconduct, conflicts of interest, dishonesty, corruption and improper influence. And the public is being urged to come forward if they have any information. Andrew has always denied all wrongdoing.
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C
Well, that was Fiona Hamilton, chief news correspondent for the Times, with all the latest from the police. Now, Katie, just listening to Fiona's update there, and given all the coverage around today, it does feel like a very significant escalation. The investigation into Andrew, we understand, has widened, comes off the back of these government files that we're released in. They're now looking at misconduct in public office in a wider sense. Before, we thought it was just about the allegations that he had passed confidential information to Jeffrey Epstein during his time as trade envoy. How do you think this is playing out in terms of coverage and reputational damage?
- [05:11]
E
Well, I mean, I think it's quite a significant escalation, isn't it? Because we have had these allegations in the public domain for a number of years relating to the former Prince Andrew and sexual misconduct, which, of course, he denies any and all of them. So Thames Valley Police have now said that with regards to this potential misconduct in public office charge, they're considering sexual misconduct and corruption as part of this, they've said the witnesses have already been interviewed and the police are understood to have uncovered evidence during searches at Andrew's home in Sandringham and his former residence at Royal Lodge. And they now are appealing for potential victims and witnesses to come forward.
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C
Which is interesting, because I remember when he was arrested on suspicion of misconduct in public office, we saw for a very long time, days, actually, police conducting searches up in Norfolk, but particularly for a particularly long time down in Royal Lodge.
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E
Yeah.
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C
And it's interesting, this briefing that's come from the police that says that they have uncovered evidence there. I thought what was also interesting from the briefing was the resource they're putting towards it. So we are told by turns, Valley Police, the investigation is being resourced in a very similar way to serious crimes like homicide. So an enormous amount of resources going towards it. I find that really interesting because when Andrew was arrested in February and he was, of course, released without charge, and he denies all wrongdoing, it was very public, you know, on his 66th birthday. On his birthday, the cameras were there and you got a sense that, you know, the police knew they had a very big job to do. The fact that they've let it be known that it's hugely resourced, I think, is fascinating.
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E
Yes. And the fact that they're saying that specialist sexual offence investigators have been deployed to the team and, you know, we always knew that misconduct in public office was a very difficult charge to bring against someone. That's always been kind of the narrative from the police and it's notoriously difficult to prosecute. Although, as you say, he's not been charged, it does carry a maximum life sentence and it does have this wider remit of they will consider conflicts of interest, dishonesty, corruption. And now, we now know, sexual misconduct as well.
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C
This comes at a time when the Royal family have been out in about a week. We've had the King and Queen in Northern Ireland for three days. I was in Cornwall yesterday with the Prince of Wales, or the Duke of Cornwall, as he's known, in Cornwall on Duchy of Cornwall business, something we talked about with Will Humphreys and Kate on the podcast earlier this week. So the family very much going on with sort of business as usual with this huge explosion of sort of, you know, a serious escalation, I think, of the Andrew problem. We haven't had a response from the palace yet. We haven't heard anything from the King or the palace on the record since the arrest in February, when, of course, the King said, and I'll read a bit of that statement, he said, I've learned with the deepest concern, the news about Andrew Mountbatten Windsor and suspicion of misconduct in public office. What now follows is the full fair and proper process. And he then went on and explained why as this process continues, it wouldn't be right for me to comment further on this matter. Meanwhile, my family and I continue in our duty and service to you all. So they are trying to carry on the business usual. But we are probably going to be in the context of once again, when he was arrested and the King and Queen and Restor finally went out on maneuvers, we saw them being heckled. We saw people, you know, members of Republic, that the anti monarchy group, we saw other lone protesters turn up at engagements and say all what did you know about Andrew? And of course the royal family aren't going to comment on that, but we are likely to probably see more of that.
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E
Well, as you say, it's a problem that hasn't gone away for them in the last few months. I mean, even when the King took that very successful trip to America and was working that diplomatic tightrope with Donald Trump, you still had victims of Jeffrey Epstein coming forward and saying, well, we would like to meet with you. And you've had those victims testifying in Congress recently. So even though the royal family, as you say, hasn't been commenting on it, it's certainly not something that's gone away for them.
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C
Of course, we don't know there's no suggestion that this investigation is related to Epstein victims. We know that they're looking at possible allegations of sexual misconduct. We don't know that that's related to Epstein victims. We do. Of course, coming back to what you were saying about the King's state visit, it was interesting given that the arrest had happened at that point that he did when he stood up in Congress, he did make a reference to victims and victims of the ills in society. And we were told by the palace that was absol him referring to the Epstein victims. So I think moving forwards, we probably aren't going to hear any more from the palace on the record on this. But this is, I mean, I know this is another major headache for them because this problem is just on the face of it getting worse and worse and deeper and deeper reputationally for the monarchy, however much they try and present a united front and business as usual and service to you all. As the King says, this is the King's brother under investigation for very serious allegations. Now, we've had an update from Thames Valley police about where the investigation, police investigation is progressing. But that came less than 24 hours after another quite extraordinary revelation from government files. Katie. Now, this was the release of government files, which government had said it would do once it had reviewed certain files around Andrew's appointment as Trade envoy. He was appointed, I think, from 2001 to 2010, when he had to step down because of all the stuff that was whirring around, the absentee an issue. And tell me a little bit more about what came out and why it came out.
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E
Well, I mean, as a journalist who trawled through the millions of files released by the Department of Justice last year and earlier this year, I sort of have a shudder at the idea of a document drop coming from government. But, I mean, this one was extremely revelatory and actually only 41 pages, so slightly more manageable. And so what you had is the Lib Dems filing for a humble address in Parliament, and it was debated and agreed by the House of Commons in February that these documents would be released. And so that came earlier this week. You had the Minister for Trade, Chris Bryant, stand up in the House of Commons and say, we're going to lay these files before the House. And, you know, the files aren't any indication of wrongdoing. And we do expect them to be the only tranche of Andrew files to be released by the government. But I think what we got from them was a flavour of why Andrew got this job in the first place. And I think one of the most extraordinary things was the fact that the late Queen seemed to be pushing for this. That was what the Doctor was.
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C
And how did we learn about that?
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E
Well, that was.
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C
That was in a memo, wasn't it?
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E
That was in a memo, exactly. So from the Queen's private Secretary at
- [11:43]
C
the time, Robyn Jandron, who we had on the podcast just a few weeks ago, talking about her legacy. We'll come back to that, because this is very relevant.
- [11:49]
E
Yes. And he expressed that at the time that it was the Queen's wish that Andrew would step into this role once the Duke of Kent stood back from it.
- [11:57]
C
What was interesting and I thought just absolutely stood out was, you know, that line in there that it was her wish. Now, when the late Queen made her wish be known, it was always. I can't think of a time when I was doing this job, it wasn't granted. What really comes to mind is around the Commonwealth Heads of Government meeting a few years before her death, I think it may have been 2019, and Commonwealth heads of Government was being held in London, and there had been huge speculation around a lot of The Commonwealth states as to who would succeed her Head of the Commonwealth, because it is not a hereditary position, it's not automatically passed down from the Queen to the King to the next King. And she gave a speech at the top of the Commonwealth government meeting and said, it is my sincere wish that my son Charles succeed me as Head of the Commonwealth. And sure enough, he was made Head of the Commonwealth. I remember the time, you know, around the 70th anniversary of her reign, she issued that message that February to say, it is my sincere wish that Camilla be known as Queen Consort in the future. Camilla became known as Queen. So when the Queen expresses her wish when she was alive, it happened. And that is fascinating because it is so at odds with what the now King thought should happen. Charles, it has been widely reported and never disputed by Buckingham palace or his team that he let it be known that Andrew would be completely unsuited to the role of trade envoy. Charles is understood to have said, all he'll do is go around womanizing and playing golf. Blind spot from the Queen.
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E
Yeah, but I mean, it has always been rumoured that she played a hand in Andrew getting this role.
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C
So seeing it in black and white
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E
is quite extraordinary, isn't it?
- [13:34]
C
And it makes you think, what else might we see in black and white? What else will come out in documents? Interesting was this discussion in documents and memos between his then private secretary and government about what he would want to do. So he wanted the job, but he didn't want to do the boring board meetings and have all the boring memos. He was very specific about what countries he wanted to go to, sophisticated countries. He was interested in tech, he was interested in young people. We were told to entertain him. He'd preferred ballet to theatre. There was an interesting, quite strange detail about golfing. Don't give him golfing engagements because if he takes his golf clubs with him, that's a private thing. He does it privately, he wouldn't want to play publicly. So it seems there was quite a lot of kind of fitting in around what he wanted.
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E
Yes, I mean, there's quite a lot of caveats that you wouldn't expect would need to be sort of laid out in black and white when you're appointing a member of the Royal family to a role where they are representing the country around the globe.
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C
What I thought also was very interesting was this suggestion that there is, and, you know, I think Chris Bryant touched on it, no vetting at all of his suitability to do the role. So a member of the Royal family is Appointed to a very high profile position, representing effectively the UK on the international stage, trying to get, you know, business deals over the line, trying to improve diplomatic as well as business relations. He had just come out of the navy. He had done however many years he had done in the navy and not much else. And the suggestion was, you know, no vetting done. Now the government now saying, are they not, that this wouldn't and couldn't happen again?
- [15:08]
E
Yes, I mean, that's quite hard to believe, isn't it, in light of the allegations around Peter Mandelson and a lack of vetting or how that vetting process was handled by the government. And obviously, you know, it is a different situation because we're talking about a member of the Royal family being sort of parachuted into this role. But it's quite hard to imagine that something like this might not happen again.
- [15:28]
C
We should of course say that Peter Manderson, who is also under investigation for allegations of Ms. Conning it in public office, he denies all wrongdoing as well.
- [15:37]
E
I mean, Roya, what do you think it means reputationally for the family at this moment?
- [15:43]
C
It's pretty awful. I mean, you keep thinking the Andrew problem can't get any worse and then, you know, you hear from the police that they are massively widening their investigation into him and it's going to be, it feels like it's quite long, quite drawn out. We've had the Royal family respond to this sort of within the family in that around Easter, just ahead of Easter, we heard from Buckingham palace that with mutual agreement, the King had been in touch with Princesses Eugenie and Beatrice, of course, Andrew's daughters, and that they wouldn't be attending the Royal Family's Easter service at Windsor, which they do normally do. And, you know, the briefing there really was that they didn't want to be a distraction. Of course, while all of this was going on then there was an interesting story last week in the sun that actually they would both be at Peter Phillips's wedding, which is just in a couple of weeks time. The King and Queen are expected to be at that wedding, as are the Prince of Wales and the Princess of Wales, other members of the Royal family. I'm not sure that they will go to that now. I think, you know, this again, I feel that could be a potential real distraction, not only for Peter Phillips and his bride. Could be quite awkward with the King and Queen there. All eyes will be on, you know, Andrew's daughters. With all of this going on, of course, there's no suggestion of any wrongdoing by them. But it just does bring an added layer of complexity, reputationally for the whole family, not just the Yorks. I mean, it's not just an Andrew story, is it? It's about accountability with Andrew, the government and the way these public roles are created and who does them and why they do them. And I suppose going forwards, lessons to be learned that if you have those public office roles, much more betting, much more scrutiny on why someone is being appointed, not just because the monarch lets it be known that it's her wish. We will be watching this very closely and we'll bring you the latest developments as we have them. My very special thanks to Katie Tarrant, the Whitehall correspondent for the Sunday Times. Thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for having me and thank you for listening to this special bonus edition of the Royals. We'll be back next week with the regular podcast. See you then.
- [17:50]
B
Most people don't realize how much of their personal information is being bought and sold every day. Data brokers are making billions, pulling details about you from public records and the Internet, then packaging and selling it, usually without your consent. That's how your information lands in the hands of scammers, spammers, even stalkers. It's why you get endless robocalls and why ads seem to follow you everywhere. That's where Aura comes in. Aura actively removes your data from broker sites and keeps it off. They also instantly alert you if your information shows up in a breach or on the dark web. But Aura goes beyond data protection. With one app, you get a vpn, antivirus, password manager, spam call protection, dark web monitoring, and even up to $5 million in identity theft insurance, all backed by 24. 7 US based fraud support. Other companies might sell just credit monitoring or even just a vp. Aura gives you all of it together at the same price competitors charge for just one service. Start your free trial today@aura.com safety. Protect yourself now@aura.com safety.
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D
Who won? How did they play? What was wonderful, what was woeful and why? I'm Tom Clark and on the Game Football podcast, we answer all of that, plus provide detailed analysis of the tactical trends on the pitch and the financial situations off it. I'm joined by former footballers as well as reporters and columnists from the Times and Sunday Times. We're here twice a week and for this summer's World cup, we'll bring you daily shows with our team covering every inch of the tournament. Find the game wherever you get your podcasts.