LATEST: Defence secretary resigns

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Story – "LATEST: Defence Secretary Resigns" (June 11, 2026)

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Overview

This urgent, afternoon episode of The Story delves into the dramatic resignation of UK Defence Secretary John Healey. The episode, hosted by Times Radio’s John Pienaar, features in-depth analysis from Times journalists Anna Mihailova (Political Editor), Larisa Brown (Defence Editor), and insight from General Sir John McColl, former Deputy Supreme Commander of NATO in Europe. The resignation stems from major disagreements over delayed and inadequate defence funding—sparking a political crisis for Prime Minister Keir Starmer’s government, and raising tough questions about Britain’s national security and international standing.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Context and Fallout from Healey’s Resignation

• Shockwaves in Westminster: Healey’s exit is described as both a “shock” and “not a surprise,” delivering a massive blow to the authority of PM Starmer and the Chancellor Rachel Reeves. (01:52)
• Quoting Healey’s Resignation Letter: "Reduced the readiness of our forces and increase the risk to personnel on operations and could make the country less safe." (02:19)
• Immediate Political Impact:
  • Raises the specter of a leadership challenge within Labour.
  • Questions Starmer’s grasp and control over government amid a turbulent period. (02:32)
  • Potential for further government resignations and signals of decay.

2. Why Did Healey Feel Compelled to Resign?

• Funding Shortfall Explained:
  • The promised Defence Investment Plan is delayed and falls well short of the government’s stated 3% of GDP defence spending by 2030 (only reaching 2.68%). (05:00)
  • The Treasury’s unwillingness to meet military funding requests is central to the dispute. (04:47)
  • Parliamentary sources largely support Healey, seeing his move as a last resort after failed internal negotiations. (03:54)
  • “John Healey would have done this very much as a last resort.” – Anna Mihailova (03:51)
• Criticism of Chancellor Rachel Reeves: MPs privately—and some publicly—blame her for prioritizing other spending over defence. (05:20)
• Historical Perspective: In the past, PMs have intervened to resolve such deadlocks decisively. The absence of such leadership now is seen as extraordinary.

3. Defence Spending Reality vs. Expectations

• Specific Numbers:
  • Healey expected £18bn extra; government delivered only £10bn—far short of plugging the estimated £28bn capability gap. (06:41, 07:57)
  • Specific army investments (like £2bn on drones) and naval shipbuilding now in doubt. (08:10)
  • “Whoever takes over is going to be starting from a position of real weakness, looking at cuts rather than investments.” – Larisa Brown (09:00)

4. Britain’s Standing in NATO

• The UK lags behind almost all peers on key NATO capability targets—ranked 31 out of 32, despite high-level pledges. (09:27)
• Starmer’s government is accused of making rhetorical commitments to NATO that aren’t backed by real policy or spending—causing international concern ahead of the Ankara NATO summit (July 7), where Trump and allies will scrutinize the UK’s record. (09:27)

5. Expert Analysis – General Sir John McColl

• Healey’s Resignation: Substance Over Spin:
  • “We’ve lost a substantive and respected political figure...a loss to the country as a whole.” (11:08)
  • UK needs such principled voices especially when “our position is under pressure.”
• On Justification for Resignation:
  • “Faced with such a gap between rhetoric and resources, Mr. Healey probably had little choice.” (12:35)
• On Starmer’s Leadership:
  • “It is up to the Prime Minister to make sure the Treasury follows the direction that he lays down as the leader…The straight answer: I think he [Starmer] has come short.” (15:18)
• International Perception:
  • Allies will note instability and underfunding, further damaging Britain’s credibility in NATO.
• Budget Priorities:
  • Welfare seen as taking priority over defence, reflecting wider Labour party sentiment. (16:09)
  • “His job is not to follow the herd, but to lead it.” (16:44)
• On Defence Investment Alternatives:
  • Concept of a multinational Defence Investment Bank is intriguing but potentially problematic, risking “less independence of action and…less effective” military response. (18:07)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You can almost see and hear the ground crumbling beneath Starmer’s feet.”
  – John Pienaar, laying out the gravity of the political crisis (02:32)
• “It is extraordinary that he [Starmer] either couldn’t…or is unwilling…so both are damned.”
  – Anna Mihailova, on the PM’s failure to resolve the Treasury–Defence deadlock (04:47)
• “We are ranked 31 out of 32 countries when it comes to meeting our [NATO] capability targets.”
  – Larisa Brown, on Britain’s weak alliance standing (09:27)
• “We’ve lost a substantive and respected political figure…”
  – General Sir John McColl, on John Healey’s international role and loss (11:08)
• “It is up to the Prime Minister to make sure the Treasury follows the direction that he lays down as the leader…The straight answer: I think he has come short.”
  – General Sir John McColl, on leadership failure (15:18)
• “His job is not to follow the herd but to lead it.”
  – General Sir John McColl, challenging the PM’s approach to party impulses (16:44)

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Key Timestamps

• 01:52 – John Pienaar introduces the crisis and contextualizes the magnitude.
• 03:14–06:30 – Anna Mihailova on political repercussions, Healey’s motives, and MP reaction.
• 06:40–09:11 – Larisa Brown on the practical impact for defence policy and pending MoD plans.
• 09:27 – Discussion of Britain’s credibility and position in NATO.
• 10:57–16:09 – General McColl offers analysis on government failure, the importance of leadership, and the consequences for the UK and its allies.
• 17:27 – Discussion of innovative funding models for defence and their limitations.
• 19:01 – Close of core content.

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Tone & Style: The conversation is urgent and serious, with frank, sometimes blunt assessments of government failings. All contributors speak in authoritative, precise tones befitting a major political and national security story.

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For Listeners Who Missed It:
This episode is an authoritative, rapid-fire breakdown of a major political resignation, its structural causes, and the looming ramifications for British defence policy at the most crucial of moments. It features key voices from journalism and the military, offering frank analysis of what went wrong, what’s at stake, and the questions pressuring Britain’s leadership just weeks before a vital NATO summit.

Transcript

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[D]

John Healey's sudden resignation came as a shock, yet somehow without being a particular surprise, it has dealt massive blow to the already battered authority of the Prime Minister and left Keir Starmer badly weakened to the extent that that's even possible. It's also left the chancellor, Rachel Reeves, badly hurt, very badly hurt. Many times now we've heard the Prime Minister saying the protection of Britain counts as his highest duty. Today John Healey quit the Cabinet over what he's publicly denounced as a defense funding plan. That, and I'm quoting from Healey's resignation letter, reduced the readiness of our forces and increase the risk to personnel on operations and could make the country less safe. It was untheatrical, it was plain spoken, and it was lethal for a prime minister already cornered by a looming threat to his leadership. You can almost see and hear the ground crumbling beneath Starmer's feet. Andy Burnham will challenge him if he wins the by election in Makerfield and the bookies tip him to win both the by election and the Labour leadership. We shall see. As it is, how does Starmer have How does Downing street even appear to be keeping a grip and composure. And who may resign next over defense or as another sign of a government in decay, or maybe both. Now, Anna Mihailova joins us now live on the line, our political editor. Hello to you, Anna.

[A]

Hi, John.

[D]

Hi. What do you think? The, the old cliche word crisis is plainly applicable here. What's your assessment of the. The political significance for Keir Starmer and his administration?

[A]

I mean, the political significance is absolutely huge. Not only is losing a Defense Secretary over something as important as defence funding during a time of global uncertainty and wars in several areas in Ukraine ongoing, in Iran ongoing, the timing as well, in terms of Keir Starmer's personal standing, as you've just alluded to it, is unbelievably damaging. The big question is why is it that Keir Starmer did not do everything in his power to stop John Healey from taking this step? Because the general feeling from people I'm speaking to is that John Healey would have done this very much as a last resort. And in any, again, normal circumstance, you would have the Prime Minister say, right, I'm just going to tell the treasury to do something. I had an MP say that, you know, in times gone by, you've had situations, you've had big rows between Defence secretaries and chancellors and, and, and questions about defense funding. And sometimes what you'd have is the almost performative act of a Defense Secretary would just March into number 10, flanked by senior senior officers in uniform, you know, perhaps the chief Defense Staff or something like that, and just say, I will resign unless you give more money. But at that moment, usually what would happen is a Prime Minister would say, right, I will tell my Chancellor to find the money. And it pretty extraordinary that he either couldn't as, as the letter says is on, is unable to do that. And the treasury is described as unwilling. So both are damned.

[D]

And what's the word among MPs you're talking to?

[A]

Well, most of the ones I've spoken to privately are, pray, very much praising John Healy, some of them very much publicly as well. I just point out, most notably, I think people like Wes Streeting have said that every word of the letter needs to be heeded. And some of them are really critical of Rachel Reeves, very worried about what this means for Defense. That has been the ongoing question because we did think we would see, finally see the Defense investment plan this week. And instead what we've seen is John Healey in his letter reveals that the current package only sees spending reach 2.68% by 2030. So what people wanted, and this was already, by the way, seen as a sort of bare minimum amount. They wanted 3% by 2030. And the fact that we now see that the plan does not include that and only includes this 0.8% rise. 0.08% will be seen as absolutely incremental and nowhere near enough.

[D]

Okay.

[E]

All right.

[D]

Anna Mihailova, thank you so much. Let's talk again a little bit later. This story still develops. And now a big welcome to Larissa Brown, the defence editor of the Times. Hi to you, Larissa.

[F]

Hi, John.

[D]

Hi. So what do you think of it? The plan for defence spending, the joint investment plan, it seems to have been stripped of force and credibility before it's announced.

[F]

Yes, I mean, it's a complete disaster. I am still, though, hoping to go to this event in Swindon tomorrow. The Ministry of Defence hasn't yet cancelled it. This is the. The launch of a new drone center that John Healy was meant to be at with Al Qazi, Armed Forces Minister. Now, the people I'm speaking to inside the mod think that a new Defence Secretary might be announced before then, therefore allowing this event to go ahead. Now, I'm quite skeptical. I'm wondering who will take over the job and who will be willing to accept the deal that the Prime Minister has presented to, to John Healey, which is effectively just 10 billion pounds extra over the next few years. When Healey had been expecting Starmer to give him 18 billion, and even that was obviously a lot short, short of the, of 10, of the 10 billion that's actually needed to plug the 28 billion black hole. So that's a lot of figures there. But, but whatever, whatever Healey was, was expecting, he wasn't, he was, he wasn't going to get far from it.

[D]

And if the figure turn, as it were on paper, 13 and a half billion extra, which amounts in real terms to 10 billion, what is that going to mean for the upgrading of our defence capabilities? Larissa?

[F]

Well, Healey had been working on the assumption that Starmer was signing off on 18 billion extra. So it's 8 billion short of what he had been expecting. Which meant that overnight last night, he was trying to look at the figures and trying to make them add up and trying to work out how on earth he could suddenly find £8 billion worth of savings. And he's under a lot of pressure from all of the military chiefs who all want lots of money being spent in their department. So take for example, the army. They had been hoping for 2 billion pounds over the next four years for just spending on drones alone. Now, I can't see how Healey would have been able to do that with the money that the treasury were willing to give him. But also there was other projects that, for example, the Navy we're looking at, they've got big shipbuilding plans. I can't see that they would have been able to go ahead. And so it does mean that whoever's going to take over from Healy is going to be starting from a position of real weakness, where they're going to be looking at big cuts rather than great investment.

[D]

Right. In a moment, I'm going to be speaking live to General Sir John McCall, the former Deputy Supreme Commander in NATO. How do you imagine this is going to look, Louisa, to our, our European allies in NATO and for that matter, to the United States?

[F]

Well, I'm really glad that you'll be speaking to him, because this is a huge issue in terms of our standing in NATO and what this means. So we've got the Ankara summit next month. This is July 7th, where Starmer is going to be meeting Trump and, and Trump is going to be looking at all the NATO member states and how, how the progress that they are making to meeting their capability targets and this 3.5% pledge by 2035. And the UK is currently in a really bad position. We are ranked 31 out of 32 countries when it comes to meeting our capability targets. And I'm told that in order for us to actually meet those targets, we need to be spending more than 3.5% by 2035. And yet Keir Starmer has refused to set out this pathway to reaching that, as Healey has set out in his letter. And that's one of the reasons that Healey has decided to resign, is that he's extremely frustrated by this, because he's saying that Starmer has committed to NATO to reach this 3.5%, but is unwilling to do that back here in the uk.

[D]

Right. So look where we wish. Whether here, it's here in Britain, whether it's in Europe, whether in the United States, our defence plans are not going to be impressing too many people. Larissa Brown, defence editor at the Times, thank you so much. So let us now, as promised, bring into the conversation General Sir John McColl, who's former senior British army officer and Deputy Supreme Allied Commander in Europe. Hello to you, General.

[E]

Hello, John.

[D]

Tell me then, if you would welcome your thoughts on this resignation and how do you think it's going to be received among key military figures here and abroad?

[E]

I think. Well, first of all, I'd like to start just talking about Mr. Healey. We've lost a substantive and respected political figure, somebody who was well regarded within government, a voice which. A respected voice arguing the defense corner within government. And I think beyond that, he was the kind of politician that you would wish to see walking into the room, representing the country as other NATO Defense Secretary gathered wherever they might be gathering. So he is a loss, there is no doubt about it. And particularly abroad, I think when our position is under pressure, for all the reasons I just heard you discussing, it's important to have a figure of substance. And his loss will be not only a loss to defence, but also to a loss to the country as a whole. As he represents us abroad.

[D]

Was he right to resign?

[E]

I would say yes. If you look at the articulation of promises coming from the Prime Minister following the Strategic Defense Review last June, there were lines such as putting security first, putting NATO first, talking about the possibility, and I quote here from the Prime Minister, there could be an attack by Russia on NATO as soon as 2030.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

One of the great lessons of our time is that instability in Europe will always wash up on our shores. So there was a, a rhetoric there which, coming out from the Prime Minister and it simply has not been supported by the delivery of resources, the resources required to deliver on the threats identified within the SDR. So I think faced with that, Mr. Healey probably had little choice.

[D]

Interesting. Interesting argument. Interesting answer. Because you sympathize with John Healy's reasoning, the reasoning behind his resignation. You set out some of your reasons for taking that position. Position. But of course, you know, you don't need me to tell you that, you know, our country needs a Defense Secretary, ideally a very good one, at a very dangerous and difficult time. So how is anyone to fill the Defense Secretary, the former Defense Secretary's shoes, and carry on with the job with the, the money available?

[E]

Well, I think what come next is. Is interesting as, as your, your previous representative on the. On the program said, we were promised that NATO, the Defence Investment Program by the NATO summit scheduled for the 7th of July. So will it be published by then? I suspect the answer that is yes. Otherwise we will look foolish and be embarrassed at the summit. Will the current settlement be revised in advance of that? I think that's an interesting area and I hope that it will be. And then the final thing is, who will the Prime Minister find to resent it and to defend it? Not a job that I would think that anyone would relish. I think another point I would make is that we are also moving towards what clearly is going to be a leadership election within the Labour Party and within the country. And I would be very interested to know where the various candidates stand on defence expenditure. And my guess is they would probably say exactly as the Prime Minister has said, which is that the defence of the nation is the number one priority for the government of the nation. Well, what does that mean in terms of their commitment to the level of resource allocated with the Defence Investment Plan at the moment? I think they should all be pressed on that.

[D]

Yes, well, no doubt that that will certainly happen as and when and if we get to a leadership contest which may be happening very, very soon. Pretty standard question, this. The Prime Minister, as I said a moment ago, has always named the protection of the country as among his principal primary duty. With this, has he shown himself to be a failure as a leader, if I can put it as crudely as that?

[E]

Well, I think we should underestimate just how much pressure the Prime Minister and the Chancellor are under when it comes to the allocation of limited resources. However, when you have a problem with the overall level of resources, it simply comes down to priorities and then you fall back on basic principles. And the basic principles are, as articulated not just by this Prime Minister, but by other Prime Ministers as well, that the security and safety of the nation comes first. And in that case, I think it is his duty to ensure that the resources required are allocated. Now, of course, there are going to be arguments with the treasury, there always are. But it is up to the Prime Minister to make sure that the treasury follows the direction that he lays down as the leader. That's convoluted to answer your question, but I think the straight answer to your question is I think he has come short.

[D]

Well, there's the basic answer to that. But of course, principle and politics and priorities do not always exactly overlap, do they? It's been pointed out by George Robertson, who you'll know well, the former Defense Secretary and Secretary General of NATO and others too, that the welfare budget is being given a higher priority than perhaps, they argue it should be against defence spending. And that has something to do with the balance of opinion at Westminster among Labour MPs. Now, whoever the Prime Minister is, they have to deal with those MPs and find a way to. To make it add up, tie up and work.

[E]

Yes, I would suggest that his job is not to follow the herd, but to lead it. And I think this is where, you know, perhaps he show perhaps a Prime Minister or A leader shows his colors, Lord Robertson, and I'm looking at the quotes now. He talked in his speech in April about complacency within government in relation to defence and the threat. He spoke of non military experts in the treasury being guilty of vandalism. Well, if that's the case and he is a highly respected ex Labour Defence Secretary and of course Secretary General of NATO. If that is the case, and I suspect it is the case, then it's up to the Prime Minister to step in and make sure the right decisions are taken.

[D]

Okay, but that again is clear now just very briefly because I'm going to get onto this topic in just a moment. Are there other ways to fund our defence needs without necessarily diving into forbidden territory in depth? Public debt for example, or raising taxes? I'm thinking of the idea of a multinational defence investment bank. It's an idea which I'll be talking to one of its authors about in a moment. It's been discussed a while. What's your thought on that? On that idea?

[E]

I think all ways of funding defence, particularly as capabilities become more and more expensive, should be explored. So I'm in favour of exploring that approach to the end. The only caveat and difficulty I have with it is that when you have assets which are owned by multinations, the decision on their deployment and use becomes subject to the view of everyone and therefore you do not have the independence of action that you require in order to take whatever action is required and within. Generally speaking, when one commits operations, I'm thinking back to Kosovo now and Afghanistan and to other operations. Generally speaking, what's happened is that you begin with a coalition of the willing and then NATO and other organizations follow on behind once you've got the body of the Kirk collectively to agree a decision. So the danger with that kind of approach is that you do find that it is probably cheaper but it is also less agile and less effective.

[D]

That's General John McCall.

[B]

That was John Pienaar from Times Radio Drive talking to General Sir John McCall, Defense Editor for the Times. Larissa Brown and Times Radio political editor Anna Mikhailova. For more from John Pienaar. You can listen to Drive every weekday at 4pm on Time Radio. We'll be back as usual tomorrow morning with a special three part investigation into the suspicious disappearance of a British tourist in South Africa. See you then.

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