Former CIA Targeter: Hunting Terrorists After 9/11 | Brittany Butler

Summary

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The Team House Podcast – Former CIA Targeter: Hunting Terrorists After 9/11 | Brittany Butler

Date: May 23, 2026
Host: Jack Murphy
Guest: Brittany Butler (Former CIA Targeting Officer, Author of The Patriot’s Daughter & The Syndicate Spy)

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Episode Overview

This episode features a deep-dive conversation with Brittany Butler, a former CIA targeting officer who served in the post-9/11 counterterrorism era. She discusses her unlikely path to the CIA, her critical work targeting terrorist networks in Iraq and Afghanistan, and how her experiences inspired her transition to writing espionage fiction. The conversation covers the realities of CIA tradecraft, the evolution of targeted operations, the toll such work can take on family life, and the narratives behind Brittany’s novels—in particular, The Patriot’s Daughter and The Syndicate Spy.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origin Story: How Brittany Got into the CIA

[02:55 – 04:43]

• Grew up outside Atlanta, Georgia in the small town of Snellville.
• Studied international affairs at Florida State, with a focus on Arabic naming conventions and foreign languages.
• An internship at the American Embassy in Paris (consular section) led to her being noticed by undercover CIA officers after she flagged a suspicious visa applicant by understanding Arabic kunyas.
• They suggested she apply to the CIA: “They were undercover CIA officers. And they suggested to me, hey, have you ever thought about, like, applying to the CIA?” (Butler, 03:19)
• Initially recruited as a case officer but opted for targeting after realizing she wasn't ready for a decade of overseas living.

2. The Rigors and Reality of CIA Recruitment

[09:05 – 16:10]

• The application process: invasive and daunting, including psychological interviews, language proficiency testing, and the infamous polygraph.
• The polygraph experience: “That’s a special kind of torture.” (Butler, 11:03)
• Polygraphers would push applicants, using manipulation and pressure tactics.
  • “[They] manipulated me … There was, like, this one question about … did I do drugs? ... Eight hours into the polygraph … I seriously never did drugs … Two weeks later I get a letter saying, congratulations, you have your clearance.” (Butler, 12:54)
• Discussion on the polygraph’s validity and its pitfalls, especially with young female candidates.
• Chose to pursue the targeting route (analytical and operational support) over case officer after open discussions about her desire for eventual family life.

3. Role and Evolution of CIA Targeting Officers

[16:10 – 20:10]

• Targeters were a new breed of officer post-9/11, chiefly responsible for building “targeting packages”—locating, identifying, and prioritizing HVTs (High Value Targets) for field, military, or drone operations.
• The job rapidly evolved, broadening to recruitment operations and other fields beyond counterterrorism.
• Training was “on the job”—almost apprentice-style—paired with seasoned targeting officers: “He like kind of pulled me aside ... gave me the ins and outs about how we targeted people at that time.” (Butler, 18:06)

4. First Deployment: Iraq

[26:35 – 35:12]

• Iraq was the immediate assignment after in-processing, at the height of the war.
• Worked targeting Sunni extremist networks—“I sent out an operational lead that led to the roll up of a lot of their senior commanders.” (Butler, 26:40)
• Role included synthesizing intelligence (SIGINT, HUMINT, databases) to create actionable leads and personally debriefing detained senior militants.

Memorable Moment:

• On encountering detainees as a young woman:
  “They had never seen a woman with, like, light hair and light eyes, and they were just like, what is happening?” (Butler, 28:58)
  “Whenever I was calling them out ... I knew when they were bullshitting us.” (Butler, 29:36)

5. Understanding Why Individuals Became Terrorists

[31:12 – 33:17]

• Not all were ideologues; some were press-ganged or blackmailed, others motivated purely by money: “He was just looking for a better life for his family … he never really was, like, radicalized or anything. He was doing it for money.” (Butler, 32:45)
• She distinguished between "true believers" and those swept up by circumstance or coercion—providing nuance to the complex motivations behind terrorism in Iraq and Afghanistan.

6. Operational Impact & The Shifting Nature of Terror Networks

[35:12 – 36:48]

• While AQI (Al Qaeda in Iraq) was eventually decimated by 2009, other groups began to emerge, with signs that ISIS was forming.
• Successes were often tempered by the rise of new threats, leading Butler to shift focus to Afghanistan/Pakistan, where senior Al Qaeda now operated.

7. Afghanistan/Pakistan Division: Challenges and Takeaways

[36:51 – 44:02]

• Afghanistan presented a new operational environment—rural, mountainous, with challenges entirely different from urban Iraq.
• Her duties included bridging source-driven intelligence with technical targeting, innovating based on lessons from Iraq.
• The job became more specialized, working closely with Special Activities Division (SAD) and navigating internal bureaucratic friction.
• Realization: The Taliban was "not going anywhere" due to entrenched cultural roots and Pakistani support:
  “They got a lot of help from the Pakistanis, Pakistani intelligence ... It was really frustrating for us because we obviously couldn't go into Pakistan and nab them.” (Butler, 43:38)

8. Tradecraft in Practice & Encounters Abroad

[46:09 – 48:58]

• Eventually assumed roles more akin to a field case officer—meeting sources, occasionally in high-threat, uncertain environments without standard CIA/Government security.
• One harrowing anecdote: Tracing a terrorist’s phone leads to a clandestine meeting in a shady hotel in the Middle East—"no metal detectors … I was nervous. I was really nervous." (Butler, 48:01)

9. Work-Life Balance & Leaving the Agency

[49:08 – 55:15]

• Married in 2010, became a mother of three, struggled with burnout and the demands of the CTC (Counterterrorism Center).
• Ultimately decided to leave after her second child:
  “I was burnout. I was really sick. And I told my husband … I’m not going back to work.” (Butler, 53:00)
• Refused offers to return, honoring her decision for family and personal well-being.

10. Transition to Advocacy and Writing

[55:15 – 57:04]

• Volunteered for Women for Afghan Women, supporting shelters and aid for women and children.
• Encouraged by Afghan women to write; authored The Syndicate Spy (2023) and The Patriot’s Daughter (2026).
• Writing as therapy and a means of expressing and channeling her drive post-CIA:
  “For me, the writing element was a, like, form of therapy … I was channeling it in targeting and going after bad guys, and now I’m, you know, changing diapers. Like, how do I channel this?” (Butler, 57:06)

11. About the Fiction: The Syndicate Spy & The Patriot’s Daughter

[59:48 – 66:26]

• The Syndicate Spy: What if women led the Middle East? Inspired by strong Afghan and Arab women she met, the book imagines a CIA case officer and a Saudi princess sparking a coup for women’s rights.

  • “I really wanted to write a story about what it would be like if women took over the Middle east ... they just needed, like, a voice.” (Butler, 59:55)

• The Patriot’s Daughter: At the publisher’s request, she wrote a “Homeland”-style thriller with a Russia-as-adversary thread, focused on disinformation and civil strife in America (inspired by ongoing social media manipulation tactics):

  • Main character Ava, a CIA officer, goes to Moscow to disrupt Russian destabilization while searching for her disappeared mother, herself a CIA officer.
  • “When you pick up your phone every time, it's not necessarily like ... 'Is this true or not?' You're asking the question, 'Does this align with my belief system already?' ... that essentially was helping to create more and more of a divide in the country.” (Butler, 64:31)

• Both books are informed by authentic agency tradecraft—so much so that readers comment on its realism.

12. Tradecraft & CIA Publication Review

[66:52 – 68:05]

• The realism in her fiction, especially in recruitment and psychology, drew comment from agency insiders.
• All manuscripts cleared the CIA Publication Review Board, which posed no issues with her representations of tradecraft.

13. Reflections on Loss and Sacrifice

[70:13 – 71:26]

• Moving story about Darren LaBonte, a CIA officer killed in the Khost bombing:
  • “He was an amazing case officer … I’m not a good husband, I’m not a good father. And those are the two most important things … A couple months later he was dead, and he had a two year old daughter. … That stayed with me.” (Butler, 70:16; 71:26)
• The emotional costs of service drive home the personal price paid by many intelligence professionals.

14. Audience Q&A and Pop Culture (Zero Dark Thirty, Zawahiri, UBL)

[69:43 – 75:26]

• Brittany could not comment on operational specifics around bin Laden or Zawahiri but affirmed that events like the Khost bombing significantly affected Agency morale and intensity.
• She vouched for the realism of some Hollywood portrayals (“Zero Dark Thirty”), noting, “It’s pretty accurate.”
• Discussion about the pursuit of other terrorist leaders, the limitations in targeting, and anecdotal vignettes about missed connections and persistent frustrations.

15. What’s Next for Brittany Butler

[73:16 – 73:34]

• The Patriot’s Daughter is doing well, and a direct sequel is planned: “Yeah. This will be a continuation of this story.” (Butler, 73:31)

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Notable Quotes

• On the polygraph:
  “That's a special kind of torture.” (Butler, 11:03)
• On debriefing detainees:
  “They had never seen a woman with, like, light hair and light eyes, and they were just like, what is happening?” (Butler, 28:58)
• On what drives people into terrorism:
  “You actually, like, could relate to ... they were held at gunpoint and told they were gonna, like, their kids were gonna die if they didn’t join up…” (Butler, 31:12)
• On why the Taliban endured:
  “They got a lot of help from the Pakistanis, Pakistani intelligence. … They went over there and then they just came back.” (Butler, 43:38)
• On life/work balance:
  “I was burnout … really exhausted all the time … I felt like I wasn’t 100% at either job. Not normal being a mom or being, you know, a CIA officer.” (Butler, 52:55)
• On transitioning to writing:
  “The writing element was a, like, form of therapy … It was really unique that I was … a young woman … in the Middle east, doing these things.” (Butler, 57:06)
• On tradecraft realism in fiction:
  “If you’ve ever wondered about the psychology behind how we get people to work with us, there's a really great chapter in here … and that’s like really how we do it.” (Butler, 66:52)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Time | |------------------------------------------------------- |------------- | | Brittany's Background and Recruitment Story | 02:55–06:11 | | Application & Polygraph Process | 09:05–13:41 | | Choosing Targeter over Case Officer, Training | 15:27–20:10 | | Iraq: First Deployment and High-Value Targeting | 26:35–35:12 | | Interrogations & Understanding Terrorist Motivations | 28:52–33:17 | | Operational Impact in Iraq, Rise of ISIS | 35:12–36:48 | | Afghanistan/Pakistan Division | 36:51–44:02 | | Field Experiences—from Debriefings to the Souk | 46:09–48:58 | | Work-Life Balance, Leaving CIA | 49:08–55:15 | | Advocacy & Entry into Writing | 55:15–57:04 | | Writing The Syndicate Spy and The Patriot’s Daughter | 59:48–66:26 | | CIA Review Process & Realism in Fiction | 66:52–68:05 | | Reflections on Sacrifice, Loss, and Khost Bombing | 70:13–71:26 | | Planned Sequel and Final Thoughts | 73:16–73:34 |

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Where to Find Brittany Butler

• Instagram / TikTok: @BrittneyButlerBooks
• Books: The Syndicate Spy (2023), The Patriot's Daughter (2026) (links in episode description).

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This episode offers a rare, candid look into CIA targeting—its evolution, impact, and human side—riveting for anyone interested in intelligence, counterterrorism, or how real-world spycraft informs compelling fiction.

Transcript

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[Jack Murphy]

Hey guys, I want to tell you tonight about my new novel the Most Dangerous man, coming out June 9th. I think like a lot of you, I read in high school the short story the Greatest Game, which is almost a century old at this point, but it's the classic premise of man hunting man for sport. This book is based off of that a little bit, but also on stories that I have heard over the years about safari guides that have actually taken hunting parties, wealthy people hunting poachers in West Africa. That idea kind of cooked off in my mind when I was asked to write a novel and get back into writing fiction again. And this book is about a Ranger with the Ranger Reconnaissance Company who's on a mission in West Africa and gets kidnapped and hunted for sport by a group of wealthy tech billionaires. I had a lot of fun writing this book and I think you'll have a good time reading it. It's a quick, fast and furious fast paced action action novel and I hope you all check it out. It's up there. You can find it wherever books are sold. The hard copy, the hardback, the soft cover, and also the Kindle ebook edition. We'll have some links down in the description for you. The book comes out June 9th and I hope you all let me know what you think of it. Hey everyone, welcome to the team house. I'm Jack Murphy with today's guest, Brittany Butler. Brittany Butler, the author of the Patriot's Daughter. Brittany served in the CIA as a targeter as I recall, and now she writes spy novels. This is your new one. Is this out now?

[Brittany Butler]

This is out now as of the 21st of April. So brand new.

[Jack Murphy]

We will have links down in the description to the book and get it out there. We'll get to that in a moment. But let's sort of start off this interview. I'll start asking. I asked. Pretty much everybody can tell us a little bit about kind of, like, where you grew up, what your upbringing was like, and how that sort of took you towards governmental service.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah, so I grew up in Georgia. Atlanta, Georgia. A little small town called Snellville. And honestly, like, I. I never had a plan to go into the CIA or anything like that. I thought I wanted to be a foreign service officer just purely because I wanted to travel. And so I did an internship my junior year of college at the American Embassy in Paris and the consulate section. And I think that's kind of what got CIA interested in me, the fact that I had that experience. I studied international affairs at Florida State University and had some knowledge of Arabic naming conventions. And so when I was working at the consulate section at the embassy in Paris, I was able to pinpoint a guy that was trying to get into the United States that really shouldn't be. And my bosses at the time, I didn't know this, but they were undercover CIA officers. And they suggested to me, hey, have you ever thought about, like, applying to the CIA? And so I did and just applied online. And I was recruited to be a case officer originally. But after going through the interview process, I realized I probably wasn't ready to go overseas. For the first 10 years of my career, I was a little bit hesitant about that. But the idea of, like, supporting operations and being operational but kind of doing it in a TDY fashion was more appealing to me. So that's why I went the. The targeting officer route.

[Jack Murphy]

So, I mean, it sounds like you always had kind of a. A focus abroad that you saw yourself doing something internationally.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah, totally. Yeah. I mean, I just. Being from a small town in Georgia, I, like, no one really went anywhere or did anything. It was like, the same group of people that, like, went to high school together, went to college together, they all married each other.

[Jack Murphy]

Right.

[Brittany Butler]

And, like, nothing could be further from, like, what I wanted. And so I was like, I gotta get the hell out of here. And so I was like, where could I. How could I travel for a living? And my two career paths that I was thinking, like, okay, if I can't be a foreign service officer, I'll be a flight attendant. And so I, you know, thankfully, the CIA worked out, so I didn't have to go either of those routes. But, yeah, always Wanted to do something internationally. And like, I had a. I loved foreign languages. I spoke French and studied French while in college. And so it was easier for me to pick up other foreign languages because I knew that one already. And. Yeah, and I. I also got really fascinated with Islam and understanding Islam and know, I went to college right after 9 11. And so it, you know, once 911 happened, it was like, you know, this big surge in counterterrorism, and everybody needed to know more about Islam and how that impacted the whole, like, Islamic Jihad movement. And so I started studying that pretty intensely and at school. And so that, like, aligned perfectly with what the CIA was looking for at that time.

[Jack Murphy]

Right, right. So you started taking some Arabic.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah, I did, I did. I. I don't know about you, your experience, but, like, having, like, worked in that field, I would say even if you do know Arabic, you probably should always rely on your translator because there are cultural things that you're just not going to pick up on, even if you're fluent in Arabic. So while I could kind of get by, I never. I never just, like, relied on myself for, like, the. The Arabic. I was always working with my translator that was local.

[Jack Murphy]

D. That light is flickering. Is that. It's obnoxious as hell, but, I mean, is it coming up on.

[Dimitri (Interviewer)]

No.

[Jack Murphy]

Okay, I'll try. I'll try to.

[Brittany Butler]

Am I looking the right place?

[Jack Murphy]

No, no, you're. You're good.

[Brittany Butler]

Okay, good, good.

[Jack Murphy]

I'm just like. I have it right there.

[Brittany Butler]

It's like.

[Jack Murphy]

I'm like, okay, cool. So what was I. I going to ask? Okay, so you're doing an internship at the embassy in Paris. And, like, how did this internship kind of like, I guess you were like, vetting green card or, you know, visa applications.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah, yeah. Just doing, like, traces on their names. And at the time, like, people didn't really know about, like, Arabic names. The fact that they use kunyas, like Abu Mohammed al Baghdadi, for example.

[Jack Murphy]

Right.

[Brittany Butler]

That Abu meant father of.

[Jack Murphy]

Was he trying to get a visa?

[Brittany Butler]

No, it wasn't him. But they just weren't. They weren't using their true names when they were applying for these things. And so given that I knew that, like, that was just something that I think drew the attention of these CIA officers. They're just like, dude, like, this is something that we really need right now as someone who understands this and is interested in this and is studying this. So that's kind of got my foot in the door and.

[Jack Murphy]

Yeah. So you found out, I guess, through that experience that in an Embassy. There are CIA officers obviously there, but they have an official cover that they're there as, you know, the consular secretary or whatever the hell it is.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah, yeah. Like a foreign service officer.

[Jack Murphy]

Right, right. Yeah, yeah, I remember. Yeah. Marty Peterson was sent to Moscow, I think, as a secretary.

[Brittany Butler]

Oh, really?

[Jack Murphy]

In the 19. She was, like, one of the first. She was the first female case officer sent to Moscow.

[Brittany Butler]

Oh, wow.

[Jack Murphy]

Yeah, yeah, she has. Her husband was a paramilitary guy killed in Vietnam or, I'm sorry, in Laos, actually. Anyway, yeah, that's like. That's another episode with. With Marty. Yeah, we talk about that another time. So now you want to apply for the agency after that's kind of been brought up to you. What was the application process like?

[Brittany Butler]

Horrible. Yeah, I mean, it's just, like, really invasive, you know? Like, you know, the. The application itself is pretty simple. Online or. It was that time. It was like you filled out some questions, and you submitted your transcripts from college, and I think you had, like, some referrals and stuff like that, but you didn't have to fill out the security paperwork initially. So that. That's when I was like. When I went through the security clearance process. I was like, holy shit, this is a lot. What am I getting into? So, yeah, so I. I filled out the application. They called me, I don't know, maybe, like, a couple months later. I don't remember exactly. And they did, like, an initial screening of, like, what my knowledge was of foreign affairs. Like, can you describe the Israeli Palestinian conflict? Can. Can you draw, you know, show it to me on a map? Like, just a general knowledge of international relations. And then the second interview was in person. It's like, I met somebody at a hotel, and he came up to me speaking French, to, like, test my knowledge of speaking French.

[Jack Murphy]

You have to knock, shaving, a haircut on the door.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, yeah, so I did that, passed that, and then the next thing was what? I actually met with case officers, so, like, seasoned case officers that had been doing it for years and went through a couple, like, scenarios with them in terms of. They gave me, like, cover story, the interview process.

[Jack Murphy]

Interesting.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah. Yeah. To see, like, what. How well I did, like, under pressure and doing those things. And then came the, like, contingent offer based on my getting through the clearance process so that I don't know. Y' all do polygraphs, right? Like, y' all in your.

[Jack Murphy]

In the military?

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah.

[Jack Murphy]

Not Nest. No, not unless you're on some special project. And we. The military normally doesn't do lifestyle polys either.

[Brittany Butler]

Okay. Yeah, that. That's a special kind of torture.

[Jack Murphy]

Yeah.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah. The. So, yeah, I went through, like, the lifestyle poly. So that was an interesting process because I'm. I'm a Catholic, and I kind of. I treated it like it was confessional. Yeah. And they definitely asked me. They're like, are you Catholic by chance? I'm like, oh, yeah, I am. How'd you know that? And he was like, well, you're, like, confessing everything, and all I need to know is if you're a spy. And I was like, oh, shit, you're

[Jack Murphy]

so good at confessing.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah. Just like, stop it. Stop telling us every little thing you ever did wrong.

[Jack Murphy]

Third grade in math class.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, so that. And they, you know, they. They screwed me during that process. Like, they manipulated me a little bit and that. There was, like, this one question about. I was in a sorority in college, and I drank and partied and everything, but I just never did drugs. Like, it just wasn't my thing. My brother, on the other hand, was, like, really into pot. Like, huge pothead. And one day I was, like, studying for a final, and I was just, like, so stressed about it. We went to college together, and he came over to, like, I don't know, say hi or whatever. And he was like, you need to chill the out. And he blew the pot smoke, like, in my face. And so during the polygraph, I'm, like, thinking about that. I'm like, wait, did I do drugs? I don't know. Like, he blew it in my face. And, like, I don't know. Did I inhale? I don't remember. And they're like, you. You. You did drugs. We know you did drugs. You gotta come clean about this. This was like, eight hours into the polygraph. And I was like, oh, my God, just get me out of this room. Get me unhooked from all these things. And they said, you know, you're not telling the truth about this. No, you're not. We're going to walk out of the room and make you really think about this. Think about what you're giving up in terms of a career at the CIA if you don't come clean about the drugs.

[Jack Murphy]

It's like shaming a little kid. Like, think about what you've done.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah. Yeah. And at the. At the time, I was like, wait a second. Do I lie and say I did it and then I could get the job? And I'm like, no, no, no. That's what they want me to do. I. Like, that's the opposite of what I'm gonna do here. So they came back in the room, and they're like, are you ready to come clean? And I was like, I seriously never did drugs. I have that one time my brother threw the. You know, blew the pot smoke in my face. That's it. That's all I got for you. And they're like, well, we're sorry. Like, you. You didn't get your clearance. Like, you. You know, you failed. And I walk out of there, and I'm like, you know, upset. You know, I've been through all of this process, and I'm like, oh, my gosh. I failed at the end. Two weeks later, I get a letter in the mail saying, congratulations. You have your clearance.

[Jack Murphy]

It's like some Willy Wonka type shit, isn't it?

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah.

[Jack Murphy]

We're like, congratulations, Charlie. You passed the test.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah.

[Jack Murphy]

You gave me back the everlasting gobstopper.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah. Yeah. I was like, really? You had to mess with me this much to get the clearance? So I went through a couple more of those, you know, throughout my career at the CIA, just given the programs I was working, and they were a little less painful, but just never anything I looked forward to.

[Jack Murphy]

Yeah, I mean, I. I've. I mean, we can. We don't have to belabor this. We move on to the next thing, but.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah, sure. Up. Yeah. Do my hair over here. Okay. Better. Okay.

[Jack Murphy]

Sorry.

[Brittany Butler]

That's good.

[Jack Murphy]

But I mean, to opine a little bit, I think the polygraph is nonsense. I don't think they should even give it to people. It's junk science. And I was having this conversation with someone the other day. There are some lecherous polygraphers out there that, like you said, get very invasive with young women that come into that process.

[Brittany Butler]

They do. I think they take advantage sometimes of, like. Or, like, maybe a power trip or something. And I'm like, like, they just like to see you sweat. And these are the same guys who go out and do it with our, like, sources.

[Jack Murphy]

Yeah.

[Brittany Butler]

Right. So they're interviewing terrorists, and then they come back and interview me, and I'm like, yeah, this is not the same thing. You got to chill out.

[Jack Murphy]

So you. You suffer through the polygraph, and now you. You're hired as a case officer.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah.

[Jack Murphy]

And now the next stop is the farm.

[Brittany Butler]

Yes. But I had some discussions with some very senior case officers, and they were, like. I expressed to them I had some reservations about going overseas for the first 10 years of my career. I. I grew up as a, Like, a little Southern girl, and I Wanted to get married and have babies. And so I was like, I. And I told them this like an idiot. And they're like, yeah, maybe the case officer route isn't the right route.

[Jack Murphy]

Well, they gave you some good advice about that.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah, they did, they did. And so, yeah, the targeting officer route was definitely the better fit for me, like personality wise.

[Jack Murphy]

And now this is about, about what time?

[Brittany Butler]

2006.

[Jack Murphy]

2000. And so this is when the, Is this about the time that the agency is like, drastically increasing the number of targeters that they have?

[Brittany Butler]

I think that happened actually a little bit earlier. But yeah, right around the time, like we surge in Iraq. And they're like, they need this new position. They didn't have targeting officers up until after 9 11, so it was a relatively new position. So they were trying to, like, figure out what it was and, you know, what the responsibilities were. Initially, when I was in Iraq division, it was solely focused on like the high value targets. And we were developing the targeting packages to send out to the field to nab those guys. Then it kind of morphed more into this like, targeting for recruitment operations, and then it was targeting packages for that. Right. Like mapping out. This is this guy's, you know, vulnerabilities, access. This is his background. This is how you contact, you know, all the things.

[Jack Murphy]

You're essentially like developing leads for the case officer.

[Brittany Butler]

Yes, yes. Or the paramilitary officer or the drone program.

[Jack Murphy]

Right. You know, depending on what you want to do with the guy.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah, exactly.

[Jack Murphy]

So tell us about the training that you go through to become a targeting officer.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah, so when I joined, it was relatively minimal. It's changed now. You now actually go to the farm and you have like, specific training courses. They really just had us work like with a more senior targeting officer when I joined. So we were at, at that time, I think we were really stretched in terms of we felt this need to do all this work to support the war in Iraq. We were also in Afghanistan. We had, you know, troops everywhere. You had special activities everywhere. So there was this need to support those operations and do it fast and do it effectively. So. So they just had me train under a senior targeting officer.

[Jack Murphy]

So like an apprenticeship?

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah, yeah. So he like kind of pulled me aside and he hadn't been doing it for that long. I think it was like a year and a half or something. And he was like, like just, you know, gave me the ins and outs about how we targeted people at that time. And I just worked really hard and I, you know, there's, there's A process. When you send your operational lead out, we have cables, right. Like how we communicate with the field and there are like reviewers for those cables. So it went through a process with like senior, more senior officers would review my work and push it back to me and say, you gotta change this. But I did like training on like the applications that we use for targeting. So you know, we've got different gadgets and applications, computer programs that help help us to target people and that I, I received training on those. And then of course when, before I went out to the field, I got weapons qualifications, the operational security courses that we provide. So. But those were like, you know, a couple weeks at a time. It wasn't like this long stint where I went to the, the farm. But I believe that's changed since I've left.

[Jack Murphy]

There's some thought that they, I mean, going to get deployed to a dicey area. But is there some thought that targeting officers are actually going to kind of end up in the fray somewhere?

[Brittany Butler]

I, yeah, I think at that time, yes, I think the targeting officer positions worked out so well for the agency that they've, they're starting to put them in different places. It used to be really just a counterterrorism type of position, but now I think they're applying that to Russia, House, China, wherever. But yeah, no, I think, I mean, I think it's a good position. I did it. I mean I really felt like the work was really worthwhile for sure.

[Jack Murphy]

And so for you it was ojt, just on the job training?

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah.

[Jack Murphy]

And where was your first stop after the training process?

[Brittany Butler]

Iraq.

[Dimitri (Interviewer)]

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[Jack Murphy]

And what was going on there at that time?

[Brittany Butler]

So I was, I was. I can't say specifics obviously, about, like, who we were going after or anything, but I was there to support operations after a Sunni extremist group. And I sent out an operational lead that led to the roll up of a lot of their senior commanders. And so I was asked to go overseas and help to debrief them to get to the next level of, of senior commanders. And I was doing that a lot through working with our liaison partners in the field. And so, yeah, that was. They really threw me into the fire. They're like, yeah, yeah.

[Jack Murphy]

I mean, Iraq was pretty hot at that time.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jack Murphy]

And so when, I mean, I know there's probably some restrictions on what you're allowed to say here, but how did you go about rolling up that first batch that of, you know, that leadership element and in Iraq, targeting packages?

[Brittany Butler]

You just like, in terms of. I personally did not roll them up.

[Jack Murphy]

Right.

[Brittany Butler]

Of course. So I can't say how that was. That was. I mean, I've learned how they do it, but I can't speak from experience or anything, but it's a matter of bringing together the intelligence picture on an individual or like a leadership structure and saying, okay, these tools that I'm using are leading me to believe that he's utilizing these phones, these email addresses. That's what it was all about back then. It was like we were targeting mostly from a SIGINT perspective. And so it was like, if you got the phone number and you got the MZ and you've got the stuff, and, you know, they, they caught on to us. Right. And so they started changing mzs and started changing phones, you know, the way they were communicating and stuff. But we caught onto it too. And so we would just develop better ways of kind of going after them. But, yeah, yeah, it was a matter of sifting through lots of intelligence reports, sifting through databases where we housed a lot of, like, the classified information about terrorists and how they communicate, and then pulling that all together into something that was actionable for the field. And so that's how we, we got those senior guys.

[Jack Murphy]

And then they send you to be present for the interrogations.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah.

[Jack Murphy]

What was it like when you actually got, like, face to face with these guys?

[Brittany Butler]

I mean, they were like, who the fuck are you? What are you doing here? Like, I, it took some work, you Know, on the. The males I was working with, before I even came into the room, they were like, listen, this is the expert from Washington. Don't fuck around with her. Like, we're right here. Like. And they had never seen a woman with, like, light hair and light eyes, and they were just like, what is happening? So it took some work, you know? And, like, so whenever I was calling them out on their. Because I, as a targeting officer, I was also the subject matter expert on the terrorist group. Right. So I knew who they knew, and I knew when they were bullshitting us.

[Jack Murphy]

I don't know. Habibi, though.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah, yeah. I don't know that guy. Don't, like, you know, push the picture over. I'm like, yeah, you do. You know, so, yeah, I mean, that. That was challenging. That was challenging. But I worked with some guys, so that were, like, you know, particularly working with liaison. Like, they're those. The detainees knew they better behave, you know.

[Jack Murphy]

Oh, yeah, I know. I can imagine which liaison you're thinking of. And I. I actually was held by the political police at one point during a reporting trip.

[Brittany Butler]

Oh, that's crazy.

[Jack Murphy]

Outside the hook.

[Brittany Butler]

Okay, okay, Wow.

[Jack Murphy]

A little. Little adventure there. It was just. It was just a night, you know.

[Brittany Butler]

Oh, my gosh. I'd freak out.

[Jack Murphy]

They had alleged that I was in Syria illegally. There's no proof. That was never proven, but they were alleging. So, yeah, I think I know the people you're talking about, and, yeah, I wouldn't screw with them.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah, yeah. They're like, hold on a second. We're going to take him somewhere. We're going to turn off the tv, and then we're going to come back. Yeah.

[Jack Murphy]

What beyond that? I mean, it's kind of like a unique experience, I think, to go from being like, you know, a kid first that's studying the wider world to being trained as a targeting officer. And now you're in the room actually sitting with these dweebs, like, hey, bro, what was sort of your takeaway about, like, who these people were and why they had become terrorists?

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah, I think it was, like, different for each individual. I mean, some. Some had some stories that you actually, like, could relate to, like, where it was, like, they were held at gunpoint and they were told they were gonna, like, their kids were gonna die if they didn't join up with this Sunni extremist group. And so, like, in a way, you kind of start to feel for them, Right? And you're like, well, gosh, if, like, my kid's life is, you know, compromised Then I could see this, you know, and so. And then you work with the guys that are. We don't work with them. They. They're. You can't convince them to work with us. But the hardcore extremists that truly are true believers. And I didn't, you know, I didn't work with a lot of those because they don't have any interest in working with the US Government. I helped with a recruitment operation in Iraq that was extremely successful in taking out, like, a big chunk of the leadership. And he was just looking for a better life for his family, you know, and could see that he, you know, he didn't want to do the extremist thing anymore. And he never really was, like, radicalized or anything. He was doing it for money. And. And so it was relatively easy to get him to, like, work with us, to roll up these guys. So it just depend. It really depended upon who we were meeting with and what the circumstances were and what we were trying to achieve with them.

[Jack Murphy]

I remember one of the stories I heard was about this was in Afghanistan. It was a young girl, she eloped with her boyfriend. So they disappear and take off. They're in hiding. Basically a terrorist group went to the brother of the sister and said, we're holding her and we'll kill her if you don't start doing terror operations, you know, bombings and so on.

[Brittany Butler]

Right.

[Jack Murphy]

And so you see, like, these people are, like, press ganged, you know, blackmailed into it at times. But then there are hardcores, you know, the Wahhabists and so on are into that stuff.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jack Murphy]

And so did that series of interrogations kind of lead you, like, the next rung up the ladder as far as going after that network.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah. In combination with other things, you know, like you're building out a picture of what the next tier looks like. So it's like you get a little bit from the detainee, and then you get a little bit with your source, and then you intercept the comms, and then you've got a better picture and, you know, a more solid picture. And, you know, anytime we send out an operational lead, like, you need to make sure that everything's been corroborated and stuff. Like, I don't want to just send our operators out on like, one bogus detainee saying something, you know, was it

[Jack Murphy]

mostly the agencies guys, or was it the military picking these dudes up?

[Brittany Butler]

Mainly. It was mainly task force.

[Jack Murphy]

Gotcha. Yeah.

[Brittany Butler]

In Iraq, the Special Activities Division that I worked with, they mostly did, like, kind of reconnaissance support I mean, they could go out in the raids, and they would a lot of times, but they were out. They were running the sources too. They were, you know, trained case officers. So they were doing the reconnaissance bit. But it was really the action element, the task force spec op guys that were rolling up the guys.

[Jack Murphy]

And it sounds like the agency kind of kept you going back and forth to that same station, that same area, roughly, in a couple different ones.

[Brittany Butler]

Okay, yeah, yeah.

[Jack Murphy]

As before, we move on to the next one. I mean, what was sort of your impression about how these operations degraded the. You know, I'll use the term, since we used it in the press. We all used it. Aqi, Al Qaeda in Iraq. By the time you get to 2009 or so, AQI was kind of defeated. And I mean, I imagine you must have got to see some of that.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah, yeah, I did. Was another group, a lot of other groups or kind of put popping up places. And we definitely grappled with what. What is this developing into? Is this developing into isis? You know, we were starting to see some of the indicators that it was developing into something even more lethal. And that was kind of discouraging as a targeting officer, because you're like, well, we just took out all the leadership and now these other bad guys are popping up. And so that. But then it became like 2009. It was like, why aren't we focused more on Afghanistan? That's where the Al Qaeda senior leadership is. Or Pakistan. And so that's why I went over to Afghanistan. Pakistan division was because I kind of, like. I felt like things were kind of slowing down in Iraq, and I wanted to be, like, very much part of the fight still. And at that time, Afghanistan, Pakistan division, and the CIA's counterterrorism division was actually a really, like, hard position to get. They only took, like, the best targeting officers. And so I had enough success in Iraq that I could apply. Like, basically I had to apply and I had to reviewed and. Yeah, yeah. And so I was moved over to that target set, and I was there. Let's see, 2000, 2011 through 2014.

[Jack Murphy]

Okay. Yeah. So I guess you were hitting it right again.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah.

[Jack Murphy]

And how did Afghanistan differ from Iraq as far as being a targeting officer?

[Brittany Butler]

It was like, set up. It's kind of boring bureaucracy stuff, but it's. It was set up really differently in terms of, like, the targeting element and the operational element. So I. I was in a unique position because they made me, like, kind of in charge of operations for the sources, like operationalizing our intel from the sources and positioning them in such a way to report on eqsl. There was also, like, an entire targeting shop of officers, like a big targeting unit that were focused from a different perspective. They were focused on the target itself. So, like, using other means to go after that target other than the sources.

[Jack Murphy]

Interesting.

[Brittany Butler]

But then I was also, like, kind of the inner, like, intermediary between the two, and that I had to marry up what the sources were doing with what the targeters were doing, so. And there was a little bit, like. Of infighting and, like, weird. Yeah. But I had a lot of success on one of the operations I did in Iraq, and so that's why they put me in this kind of tough position to do this. And. Yeah, so the targeting was very different in the sense that I was working a lot more with Special Activities Division than I ever did in Iraq Division. Iraq. It was like, more like funneling to, like, the task force, the military. And then in Afghanistan and Pakistan, it was more like working with. Working with the. With SAD on what they had on the ground.

[Jack Murphy]

And they had their Afghans and everything.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Marrying things up with what we're trying to do there.

[Jack Murphy]

Yeah, I imagine they could do a lot more. And I mean, Afghanistan was also, like, such a different country where Iraq was more urban, cosmopolitan by comparison to Afghanistan being rural and mountainous.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah, yeah. And you're dealing with, like, kind of like, almost like farmers or country folk. I don't know. It was just like, a totally different vibe.

[Jack Murphy]

Was it harder to find people because of that? The people that you were looking for?

[Brittany Butler]

No, because we had developed so much in terms of our capabilities, like, not only our technology, but our methodology of going after these guys. Iraq was kind of the training ground. And then we applied lessons learned to the target in Afghanistan, Pakistan. So you had a lot of, like, targeters that worked Iraq, like, and then moved back over. So initially, obviously, everything was focused. Afghanistan after 9, 11. Then we got involved in Iraq, and every. The surge went over there, and every. Everything got kind of effed up over there in Iraq, and then everybody surged back over to Afghanistan. So. But with that, we brought some lessons that we learned about going after these guys and what works and what did it.

[Jack Murphy]

Are you allowed to say what worked and what didn't?

[Brittany Butler]

Not really, because I might get more into, like, technology and sources and methods. Yeah.

[Jack Murphy]

So how did Afghanistan kind of, like, from your perspective, how did that conflict sort of shape over the four years that you were in and out?

[Brittany Butler]

I think it became more and more apparent that, sadly, the Taliban wasn't going anywhere.

[Jack Murphy]

Yeah.

[Brittany Butler]

And I was really focused. Part of my job was really focused on Taliban senior leadership. And so I had a really good understanding of what was happening with them and how they were not. We weren't, we weren't going to be able to like get rid of them entirely. There were these negotiations going on that were all in Doha that was all like really hush hush, but everybody kind of knew it was happening. And it was weird because like the counterterrori, the chief of counterterrorism at the time, I don't know if he's out, he's been outed yet, but he was in. He was. They did a really good job in Zero Dark Thirty with like his character. That was the character that I worked under. And he was really hard, very hard on his officers, the chief characters. You know what I'm talking about? Yeah. And I don't know if I can say his name. I mean, I know his name, but he was really tough on everything.

[Jack Murphy]

He was a dude who was like the first one in work every morning and knew everything about him.

[Brittany Butler]

He was in his office. He converted to Islam. He was a chain smoker. You always saw him smoking. And he, like, when you had to brief him, it was like, you better know your ship backwards and forwards. And I had to brief him quite a bit. And I remember I had to brief him on a reconnaissance mission. And he was like, have you ever done reconnaissance? Do you even know?

[Jack Murphy]

Like.

[Brittany Butler]

And like, I was like, well, I, I'm telling you, I'm reporting what the, what the operators are telling me. That's, that's what I'm here to do. I'm not here to like run a recon mission. Yeah, like, that's not my job. I'm targeter. So yeah, it ended up going fine. But yeah, it was. But he, he got, he's the one who was like, I think this is like to 2014, 15. When he was like, you know what? Really need to go after Taliban senior leadership. We really need to think about doing that.

[Jack Murphy]

I was going to ask you because for a long time the CIA, as I recall, as I know in Afghanistan was really focused on foreign fighters.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah.

[Jack Murphy]

AQ that more so than the Taliban. And then that started to shift.

[Brittany Butler]

At what point I would say 1415, the chief Karach Harrism kind of got into his head, you know, we really should be going after Taliban senior leadership.

[Jack Murphy]

And I remember during, I mean this was in the press that during the first Trump administration there was like an official, like some sort of Actual policy change. Where? Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, it was reported anyway in the media.

[Brittany Butler]

Okay.

[Jack Murphy]

Maybe they were just reporting what had already happened a year previous.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah, maybe. I don't know. I got out in 2014, so, like, I've been out for a long time. Yeah. So Trump is way after me.

[Jack Murphy]

Not way after, but. So what your impression, again, I mean, of the. Of the Taliban, that they weren't going anywhere, was that because they were just, like, such a solidified part of the culture, they embedded themselves so deeply. I mean, why did you think that we weren't going to be able to defeat them completely?

[Brittany Butler]

Well, they got a lot of help from the Pakistanis, Pakistani intelligence. Right. So they kind of hid in Pakistan and were funded, too, by the Pakistanis. So it was really frustrating for us because, like, we obviously couldn't go into Pakistan and nab them. I mean, we did, like, we did do a couple of things, you know, but, like, they went over there and then they just came back.

[Jack Murphy]

Right.

[Brittany Butler]

So they got safe haven over there in Pakistan and then came back to Afghanistan. Sorry,

[Jack Murphy]

It.

[Brittany Butler]

Thank you. Okay.

[Dimitri (Interviewer)]

All right.

[Jack Murphy]

And this was sort of a combination of targeting. Like, targeting can be a number of different things, as you explained. Like, sometimes going after recruitment, sometimes kill capture missions, and sometimes just drone strikes.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I. And I did all of it, and the ability to do all of it, I think, was something that helped to hone your skills in going after the target set and knowing what worked and what. What didn't work. And sometimes we were trying all different things in order to. To meet our objective.

[Jack Murphy]

Did you get sent anywhere else during your time there? Where else did you go? Yeah, some other Middle Eastern, vaguely speaking.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah.

[Jack Murphy]

Mesopotamia.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah, yeah, over there. Over there, yeah.

[Jack Murphy]

Liaisoning with different partners.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I would say, like, those were probably the more challenging missions because, like, you know, in Afghanistan, Iraq, like you have, I had the military all around me, so I felt relatively, like, secure, even though we had GRs, you know, going with us on to places, but I didn't have GRS in the Middle Eastern countries that they sent me to. And so I had to really trust liaison that they were, like, gonna work with, that they were working with me, and that they were being truthful about things. And so I would say that was probably more nerve wracking for me because. And also, like, the meetings I would have with sources, they were terrorists. Right. And I'd show up to those meetings, and I wouldn't know, is this guy going to come with, like, a bomb Strapped to his chest.

[Jack Murphy]

Interesting. So now. Now you're actually going out into the field like a case officer would.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah.

[Jack Murphy]

Meeting a guy in the souk or whatever the case.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I was always with a case officer and a translator, and, like, the translator was usually like, foreign liaison. And because that the operational leak would usually come from me as the targeter, and I would have the expertise again on the target set. And so I would be there calling the guys bullshit or not. Well, the case officer was doing the case officer thing, you know, developing the rapport and everything. And I was there to kind of assess. Yeah, assess his access. So, yeah, that was kind of my job in doing that.

[Jack Murphy]

Did you ever catch, you know, liaison partners trying to hoodwink you guys?

[Brittany Butler]

I didn't.

[Jack Murphy]

Okay. So it was pretty good relationship at the end. Yeah.

[Brittany Butler]

I never had a bad experience. I really felt like they were pretty upstanding with us at least, so I never felt that way. I know. I definitely know of stories. True, sure. That hasn't always been the case, but I never had a bad experience with them.

[Jack Murphy]

And during any of these, like, trips, were there any, like, hairy experiences or dicey situations that you got into that you can talk about?

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah, I mean, like, certainly like when I met with. When I had my first high, high threat meeting, when I sent out the operational lead that this terrorist, he had walked into the embassy at one point and said, I want to work with the U.S. government. And we had his phone number and stuff. And it just so happened, and it's bureaucracy, right, that the stuff happens, but just no one traced his phone number to, like, see if he actually had the access that he did, that he was claiming to have. And I happened to trace his phone number, and I was like, holy, he really does know all these guys. And so I sent out the lead to the case officer in the field, and I was like, you might want to look at this.

[Jack Murphy]

Yeah.

[Brittany Butler]

And he was like, oh, shit, we need to get him in here. So that's when I flew out and I, you know, went with him to this meeting. But it was in, like, a dicey hotel in a Middle Eastern country. There was no metal detectors. So, like, it just all was, like, very shady, you know? And so I was nervous. I was really nervous. It was totally different from Iraq, where, like, I've got military right here. I've got the GRs, like, we've got. I had my gun on me. I didn't have any weapons on me. So, like, there's nothing I could do if this Guy was a threat. So I would say that was probably the diciest situation I was in. I mean, you're always scared when you're like, flying over Iraq, you know, like, or Afghanistan and those cargo planes. I was always afraid we're going to go down, but. But I would say, like, operationally that was when I felt the most vulnerable.

[Jack Murphy]

Yeah, you're like Brittany Butler, Consular Reports officer on paper.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like I. Yeah, I.

[Jack Murphy]

And I mean, not to pry too much and shut me down anytime, but your. Your other desire to have a family.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah.

[Jack Murphy]

Is that starting to, like, emerge around this time? I mean, how are you kind of balancing your CIA career with that?

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah, yeah. So I met my husband in 2007, so I was already like, into it, you know, and I was already deploying and stuff. And he had friends. You know, D.C. is like a pretty small town in a sense that like, everybody knows somebody works at CIA. And it just so happened that his really good friend worked in the same division as I did in a record. Yeah. And he so much. We worked together so closely that he was sitting at my desk one day, this his buddy and my then boyfriend, now husband called me at work and the. His buddy picked up and he knew his buddy worked at CIA and he was like, wait, Britney works there? What? And so. So it was funny. They like had that. We had. We all had a good laugh about it. But he, like, came to visit me at work. Like, it wasn't a big deal. Like, he came. He couldn't come into the vaults or anything, but he came. We had coffee.

[Jack Murphy]

We went to the cafe Starbucks down the lobby.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah, yeah, like, it was. And like, he really respects what I did and he thought it was awesome and he was really proud of me. And so whenever I needed to, like, go on these missions, sometimes I'd have him drive me to the airport. And of course, this is a time where we had like the unmarked planes at Dulles, and they were like kind of around the back of the airport. And he'd have to like, he would drive me to this and I would just like walk up into the airplane and he was like, this is crazy. I can't believe you're doing this. And he'd get nervous and stuff, but he knew there was like, no stopping me. Like, I was totally dedicated to what I was doing. And. Yeah, we got married in 2010. Had our first kid 2011.

[Jack Murphy]

Okay, so you're still in the agency?

[Brittany Butler]

Oh, yeah, yeah, I. I was in the agency up until we had our second son. With three sons.

[Jack Murphy]

Wow.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah.

[Jack Murphy]

Oh, that's. No, that's great. There's a. Reminds me of a story about one guy who's at the Agency, goes out on a date with a woman in D.C. and she's like, you know, what do you do? And he's allowed to say, like, look, I was Force Recon Marine. I was Special Forces. I'm a CIA paramilitary guy. And she was like, this guy's so full of shit.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jack Murphy]

But because it's D.C. and it's like you said, it's a small world, she's able to like, call up her friend that works at sad. Like, yeah, what he said is true.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah, yeah, I know, I know. But there's also like, a lot of people. Like, we had this one friend. It was so hilarious. So me and this other woman, we both worked at CIA and we actually, we happened to be dating buddies. Like, they were our. Both of our, our boyfriends were buddies. And she, she was like a secretary. I was in operations. And we had. There was a guy within our friend group that said he was CIA and wasn't and didn't know that we really were CIA.

[Jack Murphy]

And it's like the worst place in the world to pretend to be a circle.

[Brittany Butler]

You don't want to pretend to be that. And we would, like, ask him questions. We were like, what's it really like?

[Jack Murphy]

What's it like to kill a man?

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he would be like, well, we had so much fun. I don't know, this guy's probably still saying it to try to get women to sleep with him or something.

[Jack Murphy]

Yeah, I know. I wish you had had a tape recording of those conversations.

[Brittany Butler]

That would be amazing. Yeah, totally.

[Jack Murphy]

So how are you juggling family in the CIA career at this point?

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah, yeah, not. Well, I. It was really hard on the family. It was hard on me mentally. I was really exhausted all the time. I was working 10, 12 hour days. Granted, I wasn't like overseas all the time, but when I was at Langley, they were still working me to death. And I felt like I wasn't 100% at either job. Not normal being a mom or being, you know, a CIA officer. So it got to a point and I had done 10 years by the time I had my second son in the counterterrorism center. And that's. It's a quite an intense environment and especially like with targeting. And so I was burnout. I was, I was really sick. And I told my husband, like, I don't care what you have to do. You'd be a male gigolo for all I care. I'm not going back to work. And he was like, what? Like, what are you saying? Like, we need both of our incomes to like, have this house. And I'm like, I don't fucking care. Figure it out. And so I call and I told everybody before I left, like, I'm not coming back. I went on maternity leave and that's when I left. And they're like, there's no way. You are obsessed with what you do. There's no way you can do this job. You are going to be back here. And I was like, nope, nope, I'm not coming back. Not coming back. And when my maternity leave expired, I called them and I was like, yep, not come back. And like, they were completely shocked that I really wasn't coming back. And I got phone calls for a couple years after that, like, hey, like, we could really use you. This would be so great. Like, you were really good at this. We need you for this.

[Jack Murphy]

They want you to come back as like a green badger and contract.

[Brittany Butler]

No, they didn't. I mean, it was really. They. What they wanted me to do was like a specific thing that I was good at. And I can't get into the specifics, but whether that was a green or a blue, it wasn't really even discussed. It was just like they were trying to. They were trying to sway me with the job.

[Jack Murphy]

Gotcha.

[Brittany Butler]

What it was and what they were needing me to do.

[Jack Murphy]

What did you do?

[Brittany Butler]

What do you mean?

[Jack Murphy]

I mean, you, you just hang it up and you tell the CIA, no, I'm not coming back into the office.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah.

[Jack Murphy]

What is like the next phase for?

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just, I told them like, I, I can't come, I'm not coming back. And then you just go and you sign all the secrecy agreements saying you're not going to say anything about, you know, anything operational that you did. You're not going to reveal sources and methods and. Yeah, and so then I was a stay at home mom. And I worked because the last target said I worked at Counterterrorism center was Afghanistan, Pakistan. I. And like I said, I specialized in Taliban senior leadership. I became very aware of how they treated women. And I promised myself if I ever left that I would do something for women's rights in Afghanistan. And so I joined an organization called Women for Afghan Women. And at one time we helped provide funding for. It was like 45 shelters in Afghanistan for women and children fleeing domestic abuse situations. So I was a full time mom. But, like, I also did kind of dabbled in that.

[Jack Murphy]

Some.

[Brittany Butler]

Some not for profit. Volunteer. Yeah, yeah. Volunteer work. And it was because of that experience, though, that I worked alongside these really awesome Afghan women, and they encouraged me to write a book about women empowerment in the Middle East. And so that was my first novel, the Syndicate Spy, that came out in 2023 and just found that I loved writing, and I just wanted to keep on doing it. So that's. That's where I am today.

[Jack Murphy]

I want to ask you about the books, but I think, you know, we talk on the podcast a lot about, like, the difficulty in transitioning out of the military, and I'm sure the people, like, you have the same version of that. Like, what was it like transitioning from being a targeting officer to, like, driving the kids to school every day? Like, you love to do it. Of course you want to be around your kids, but, yeah, there are difficulties, and.

[Brittany Butler]

Sure.

[Jack Murphy]

Changing your mindset.

[Brittany Butler]

Absolutely. Well, I mean, was really hard to not have that, like, sense of purpose every day. Like, that just, like, I have a mission.

[Jack Murphy]

I'm gonna go find the bad guys.

[Brittany Butler]

My work. Yeah. Means something. Like, I get up motivated, and it just changes so much because, like, you don't have that, like, mission anymore in your life, and you. Like, there's this intensity that I feel like I have kind of an intense personality. And so, like, it's like, what. How do I channel this? Like, before, I was channeling it and targeting and going after bad guys, and now I'm, you know, changing diapers. Like, how do I channel this? How do I navigate this new life? And I. For me, the writing element was a, like, form of therapy and, like, how to. Because I express yourself. Yeah, I express myself, my experiences, like, kind of what that world was like. I feel like it was really unique that I was in, like, a young woman, you know, in the Middle east, doing these things. And so. So it's been really therapeutic for me to write novels, and I'm not sure if I didn't have that, it would be as easy to transition into normal civilian life. I mean, I was always a civilian, but you know what I mean? Like, doing that kind of stuff.

[Jack Murphy]

And very, very relatable. I mean, I got out of the army, started college the same year, started working on a novel. I mean.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jack Murphy]

It's a way to, like, get this.

[Brittany Butler]

Get it out.

[Jack Murphy]

Out. Yeah, whatever. All this, like, weird stuff that, you know, you experience and you're carrying around and.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah.

[Jack Murphy]

And then when you go in and you're living suburban life and normal life. It's very isolating because, like, who can you talk to about this stuff? Like, the stuff we're talking about in this interview, you can't talk about it at a PTA meeting.

[Brittany Butler]

No, no. And like, half the time it's like, my friend. Like my friends I made after DC after my work at the Agency. They're like, wait, what did you used to do? What? It's like, they can't really believe it, you know, because I just. I'm like a soccer mom.

[Jack Murphy]

Yeah.

[Brittany Butler]

You know, so they're like, what? That's so bizarre that you did those things. And even part of myself, like, I look at those pictures and what I used to do, and I'm like, I can't believe I did that.

[Jack Murphy]

Yeah, yeah.

[Brittany Butler]

Like, wow. Just from, like, a stupidity, I'm like, wow, I was so stupid to, like, put myself into such dangerous situations. I think having had kids now, being older, a little bit wiser, I hope. Like, I. I'm not sure I would sign up for those same things today.

[Jack Murphy]

Yeah, you're a different place in life now.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah. Yeah, totally.

[Jack Murphy]

Tell us about the syndicate spy. You said that book was kind of an outgrowth of your work with Afghan women.

[Brittany Butler]

Yes, yes. So I really wanted to write a story about what it would be like if women took over the Middle east, because I feel like they've just been marginalized for so long, and the women I worked with, like, just refused to be victimized. And they were really strong women, and they just needed, like, a voice. And so in my novel, I thought, hey, wouldn't it be cool if, like, a female CIA case officer and let's say a Saudi princess that, you know, was born into this family that, like, really put her down in terms of, like, her rights and stuff, but she. She wanted rights. She wanted rights for women in Saudi Arabia and then the rest of the Middle East. What if I partnered them together? And what if my CIA officer and her team kind of helped her launch coup within the Middle East? Yeah. So I had so much fun with it, and there's a lot of twists and turns in it, but it's born of this idea that Afghan women, Arab women, women that find them, have found themselves in this situation, that they really should not be seen as victims and that they're really powerful. And, like, if you study Islam enough, you know, like, Muhammad's first wife was this really powerful, independent business owner, and she is. Fatima's from her name. That's the ideal of. Of the Muslim woman. And it's interesting. You talk to people who really understand their faith, really understand Islam. That's what they refer back to. It's like that example. And so I thought, hey, how cool would it be if I just, like, incorporate all that into this novel and gave it my own little spin?

[Jack Murphy]

Did you ever look at the Kurdish women in Syria?

[Brittany Butler]

Not in Syria, but in Iraq.

[Jack Murphy]

It's a really interesting case. Case study where the ypj, the female militia in northern Syria.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah.

[Jack Murphy]

I mean, the way they just kind of took political power, like they didn't really ask for permission for it. Yeah, we're running things now.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jack Murphy]

And, you know, we're going to have a council. There's going to be a male council and a female council in every town. And this is how it's going to work now. And the way, like, these ideas that we have about the Middle east that, you know, it can only work in this one way that, you know, ISIS was the epitome of that, that we're going back to the Middle Ages here.

[Brittany Butler]

Right.

[Jack Murphy]

But it was fascinating to travel around those areas and see, like, once the mullahs were out of power and this more secular organization came and seized political power, how quickly all the norms changed.

[Brittany Butler]

Right.

[Jack Murphy]

And you had a Kurdish woman leading a battalion of Arab men. I mean, the things that would be, like, unthinkable previously. It's just amazing how quickly that can change.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah, Yeah, I love that. I love stories like that. That's awesome.

[Jack Murphy]

Yeah, I look up some stuff about that, but. So the Syndicate Spy came out what year?

[Brittany Butler]

2023.

[Jack Murphy]

Okay. So, okay, just a few years ago. And then how did the next one come about? The Patriot's Daughter.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah, so. So I was actually contacted by the publisher to write this book. So we share a publisher.

[Jack Murphy]

Yeah.

[Brittany Butler]

And Matt reached out to me and said, hey, I read the Syndicate Spy and I loved it. And I've been following you on social media. Would you think about writing, like, a new Homeland series for us? So, like the Carrie Matheson type of deal? And I was like, yeah, get paid to write. Let's do it. And so we actually worked together on the outline for this book. And he had a good sense of, okay, this is what's selling. And I, He. He had the idea that, you know, it was harder for readers to grasp the Middle Eastern target. So, like, to you and I, we, like, really understand the Middle Eastern target. We understand them as the enemy, the foreign adversary. But. But readers, I guess, for whatever reason, it's easier for them to grasp onto Like Russia as the bad guy than,

[Jack Murphy]

like, getting into the Sunni, Shia.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah, yeah. And Muhammad and Abu and, you know, all the different names that.

[Jack Murphy]

It's a Russian guy twirling his mustache.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah, yeah. And he was like, okay, so bad guy needs to be Russia, and we need. It Needs to end up back in the homeland. Needs to be. End up back in the United States. And that was all the guidance he gave me.

[Jack Murphy]

Okay.

[Brittany Butler]

And then I just went for it, and I started to. You know, at CIA, you're trained to look at the threats and what are the upcoming threats. And so two years ago, when I started brainstorming about this book and writing outlines, I was looking at what was going on in the media and social media in particular, in terms of, like, the disinformation that was occurring. The fact that, like, when you pick up your phone every time, it's not necessarily like. When you look at it, most people aren't like, is this true or not? You're thinking. You're asking the question, does this align with my belief system already? And what that essentially was doing was helping to create more and more of a divide in the country. And what I saw that as is an opportunity for a foreign adversary like Russia that would create the perfect opportunity for them to come in and basically assert themselves as the new superpower. And so that's the premise that the book is built on, that this disinformation campaign that's divided the country has gotten so bad that civil war has broken out, and we think Russia is possibly behind it. And so you encounter a young woman named Ava, and she works for the CIA, and she's sent to Moscow to put an end to this cyber campaign that's tearing the country apart. And she's asked to recruit a member of the svr, Russian intelligence. And at the same time, she's grappling with her own internal stuff and that her mom was. Also worked for the CIA when she was a young. When she was young. And she left on a mission when Ava, the main character, was 11 years old. And she never came home, and she never knows what happened to her mom. And so she goes to Moscow not only to put a stop to the cyber campaign, but also to find out what really happened to her mom.

[Jack Murphy]

Right, right. Yeah, yeah. There's a personal stake in all this.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jack Murphy]

I read as much of the book as I could, and, I mean, towards the end, like, things get really crazy.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a twist.

[Jack Murphy]

Yeah, yeah. How much of. I mean, whenever you write a book, like, this. You put a lot of yourself into it. How much of your, like, personality, personal experiences from the Agency did you have to draw into and reflect on as you were writing the book?

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah. So it's interesting. I had this conversation yesterday with Tracy Walder, who interviewed me in Dallas, and she was like, the amount of tradecraft that is in here, like, how did you get this past the CIA's Publication Review Board? And I was like, oh, I didn't even realize I did that. I put so much tradecraft in there. So if you're. If you've ever wondered about the psychology behind how we get people to work with us, there's a really great chapter in here when Ava is meeting with her potential SVR source named Constantine, and you're moving through it with her in terms of how she convinces him to be a spy. And that's, like, really how we do it. And. And, yeah, it went through the CIA's Publication Review Board, and they were totally fine with publishing it. But, yeah, obviously, like, I couldn't write that without having the CIA.

[Jack Murphy]

Right, right.

[Brittany Butler]

And so I think that shines through on both the. In the Syndicate spy and in the Patriot's Daughter. That tradecraft element. If you're really curious about how it works in the CIA and how that happens, the.

[Jack Murphy]

The Agency didn't give you any guff about the book, really? They were just like.

[Brittany Butler]

They're like, it's good.

[Jack Murphy]

That's awesome.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah. Yeah. I've gotten really good about talking around it, like, on. I'm on Instagram, Tik Tok and stuff. Kind of a necessary evil in publishing these days. And I've gotten good about talking around things, and so I think I was able to do that in the writing too.

[Jack Murphy]

And I. Right now you're kind of touring around with the book, right? Going to Thriller Fest here in New York. What. What else is planned as far as.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah, yeah. So I did. Oh, my gosh. I've done, like. I did five events last week. This week, I've done. So I've. I started off in Washington, D.C. at the Spy Museum was like, the big lunch. I did politics and prose on Connecticut Avenue. I've done. There's, like, Buxton Books. I've done the Village Bookseller in Charleston. I did Texas last. This past week where I visited Murder by the Book in Houston, and then I went to Interbang Books in Dallas.

[Jack Murphy]

That's cool.

[Brittany Butler]

And, yeah. And now I'm here in New York, and this is kind of the end for right now as far as upcoming events. I Have a couple more in South Carolina, like local stuff. I have one in Florence at the Barnes and Noble there. I've hit a bunch of Barnes and Nobles along the way too.

[Jack Murphy]

Awesome. So, and so the Syndicate spy and the Patriot's Daughter are both out now. Yeah, we'll have links in the description. Where can people. You mentioned TikTok, Instagram. Where can people find you online?

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah, so @BrittneyButlerBooks is my handle on TikTok and Instagram.

[Jack Murphy]

Okay, cool.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah.

[Jack Murphy]

Yes, Dimitri.

[Dimitri (Interviewer)]

So Brittany, you mentioned that you worked at, on the AFPAC desk and from 2011 to 2014. So like 2009, the coast bombing happened.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah.

[Dimitri (Interviewer)]

And we've had a ton of people on who've said, like, after that went down, like the CIA really put the, you know, the pedal to the metal. Yeah. You know, also in 2011, a little thing happened. Osama bin Laden got smoked in Pakistan.

[Brittany Butler]

Right.

[Dimitri (Interviewer)]

Did you work on that? Were you anywhere near that?

[Brittany Butler]

I can't talk about that.

[Jack Murphy]

Okay, great question.

[Dimitri (Interviewer)]

Link twice, blink twice if you can.

[Jack Murphy]

Great questions.

[Brittany Butler]

So I knew two of the officers that died in Coast, Darren Labonte and the Jordanian case officer. We worked together in Jordan. And two months before Darren died, he and I worked on an operation together. And he, he was an amazing case officer. And I was like, dude, like, you're like rocking it. Like you're doing so great. Like, you know, I'm learning a lot from you. And he was like, don't be like impressed by me. I'm not a good husband, I'm not a good father. And those are the two most important things. And if I had to do it all over again, that's what I would focus all my effort on. And you know, a couple months later he was dead and he had a two year old daughter. And I went to the funeral in Arlington Cemetery and saw his daughter and his wife and everything. And that stayed with me, especially as I started having my own family. I was like, I can't.

[Jack Murphy]

Yeah, someone who's like super technically competent at their job, but it's like there's, there's like a trade off to be made, you know, when you live that kind of life.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it was rough. But as far as like a crackdown in AFPAC division, I didn't really see that after coast.

[Dimitri (Interviewer)]

So it's kind of like business.

[Brittany Butler]

We're still taking risks. Yeah, yeah. Because we hadn't gotten UBL yet, so they were like, anybody got any ideas?

[Jack Murphy]

Yeah, priority number one, let's go.

[Brittany Butler]

Whatever we can do let's figure this out.

[Jack Murphy]

And then the other interesting character, of course, is Zawihiri, this other guy that you were looking for all the time. Time.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah. Yeah. They finally nabbed him on my birthday. What, A couple years ago. I was so excited. I was like. I mean, I was way out. I was out of the agency for years by then. And I was like, oh my God, what a great birthday present. Well, and like that's the coast bombing that the doctor supposedly had intel on Zawa hearing. And that's. So that was like a really pivotal thing that we finally were able to nab him.

[Jack Murphy]

I had a. I mean, speaking of targeting, I had an agency guy tell me we were never able to pin down exactly where Zawahiri was to an area. Area smaller than like Rhode Island. Like, like, wow. Yeah.

[Brittany Butler]

And we ended up like getting him on his balcony or something.

[Jack Murphy]

Yeah. In Cabal.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah. Crazy.

[Jack Murphy]

Yeah.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah. So.

[Jack Murphy]

But obviously something changed.

[Brittany Butler]

Development. The technology.

[Jack Murphy]

Yeah.

[Brittany Butler]

And drones and stuff.

[Jack Murphy]

Yeah. Or old fashioned trade craft. I mean, I really don't know how they did. How they eventually got them. Yeah. There you go. So what's next? Is there another book in the works?

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah. So everything depends on book one sales and they're going really, really well. So it looks like there will be book two.

[Jack Murphy]

Awesome.

[Brittany Butler]

Which I'm really pumped about. It's just a matter of working out the details.

[Jack Murphy]

You think it's going to be like a direct sequel?

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah.

[Jack Murphy]

Okay.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah. This will be a continuation of this story. Yeah.

[Jack Murphy]

Very cool. Okay. Yeah.

[Dimitri (Interviewer)]

One more question.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah.

[Dimitri (Interviewer)]

So you were. You said you were chasing high level Taliban guys. How frustrating on the level of 1 to 10 was it not being able to get an smoke Haqqani and his network.

[Brittany Butler]

So that was actually a different target set from. Yeah. The Haqqani network was different from the Taliban senior leaders that we were going at were Quetta. That gives you an idea, Little Omar.

[Dimitri (Interviewer)]

So nothing on Ubo, no walk in or anything.

[Jack Murphy]

Demetrius gonna push you.

[Dimitri (Interviewer)]

I've asked that to many CIA officers. Like I asked it to Mark Polymeropoulos like early on. And he gave me the. Which I'm sure he's like, just watch Zero Dark Thirty. Exactly like that. That's how it happened.

[Brittany Butler]

I mean, seriously, Come on, Brittany. Come on.

[Jack Murphy]

We keep the brass knuckles there in case you don't like the question.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah, I know. I'm like, I saw those walking in. I'm like, what?

[Jack Murphy]

Yeah. That's what they're there for if you feel the need.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Watch Zero Dark thirty.

[Jack Murphy]

I, I don't want to.

[Brittany Butler]

But wait, you've never seen it?

[Jack Murphy]

I, I think I saw it on an airplane.

[Brittany Butler]

It's literally like. I, I'm. It's pretty accurate.

[Jack Murphy]

Really.

[Brittany Butler]

Oh, yeah.

[Dimitri (Interviewer)]

I thought we were doing well. Come on.

[Jack Murphy]

Yeah. I mean, it's, it suffers. I mean, I guess maybe some of the same Hollywoodization that like, maybe Black Hawk down does where they like combine all these characters. But I get what you're saying, like,

[Brittany Butler]

in essence, Jessica Chastain is a real person.

[Jack Murphy]

I. Yeah, I know.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jack Murphy]

You've probably like, I've had to ask her things twice. She's like, I have no idea what you're talking about, Jack.

[Dimitri (Interviewer)]

She's like, just watch the movie.

[Jack Murphy]

She didn't tell me that. Pretty close, though.

[Brittany Butler]

Is she still in?

[Jack Murphy]

No, no, she's retired.

[Brittany Butler]

Okay.

[Jack Murphy]

Yeah. So I hope people go and pick up the Patriots daughter. It is available wherever books are sold. Britney, I really appreciate you coming in studio. I'm glad this worked out. Yeah. I, we were initially going to do this remote, but then when I saw you were coming in for Thriller Fest, I was like, okay, it all works out.

[Brittany Butler]

It's awesome. Yeah, yeah. No, thanks for having me.

[Jack Murphy]

Yeah. And yeah, feel free to reach out when the next book comes out.

[Brittany Butler]

Yeah, thank you. I will.

[Jack Murphy]

And anything else you want to plug or tell people about before we get going?

[Brittany Butler]

I don't think so.

[Jack Murphy]

All right, so we'll see all you guys next time. Thanks for joining us.

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Hey guys, I want to take a moment to tell you about the Team House Podcast newsletter. If you go and subscribe, it's totally free and what it will do is aggregate all of our data, all of our content that we put out, the things that are on the Team House on our Geopolitics podcast, Eyes on things that I write journalistically with Sean Naylor. On the high side, anything else that we have going on books. We recommend upcoming guests that we have coming on the show and also, you know, filtering in some fun stuff in there as well if you'll go and check it out. We send it out just once a week. We don't want to spam you guys, guys. It's just a kind of rollup of all of our content on a weekly basis. You can find our [e-mail] Join again. The website for that is teamhouse podcast

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kit.com hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway this spring. Sweeten your day one sweet treat at a time. Now through May 26th. Whether you're shopping for gifts for friends and family or just want to pick me up for yourself, get great deals on your favorite sweet treats. Shop in store or online and save on items like Reese's Peanut Butter Cups, Trident Sugar Free Gum, Albanese Gummy Bears, Kinder Wafer Eggs or Snickers bars. Get these deals before they're gone. Offer ends May 26th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.

[LifeLock Announcer]

Lots of places can accidentally expose you to identity theft. Doctor's offices, online retailers, insurance companies, the list goes on. Thankfully, Lifelock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats to your identity, which is way more than anyone can do on their own. LifeLock keeps an eye on your personal information, credit applications, finances, and more. And if they find anything suspicious, like new loans or changes to your financial accounts, they alert you right away. All through text, phone, email or the LifeLock LifeLock app. Even better, alerts are automatically activated the moment you become a Lifelock member. No extra work on your part. Get the alerts that could make all the difference. Don't wait. Join LifeLock now. Visit lifelock.com iheart and save up to 30% your first year. That's lifelock.com iheart for 30% off terms apply.

[Spin Quest Announcer]

You know what? It sucks to be bored. But when I get on my phone and play real casino games on spinquest.com, the time flies by. That two hour wait at the DMV seems like 10 minutes. Play your favorite slots, live blackjack, live craps with a live dealer. New players 30 coin packs are on sale for 10 bucks. Play spinquest.com and you'll never be bored again.

[Spin Quest Disclaimer]

Spin Quest is a free to play social casino void where prohibited. Visit spin quest.com for more details.

[Jack Murphy]

Com/join so we hope to see you there. The link will be down in the description.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway this spring. Sweeten your day one sweet treat at a time. Now through May 26th. Whether you're shopping for gifts for friends and family or just want to pick me up for yourself, get great deals on your your favorite sweet treats. Shop in store or online, and save on items like Reese's Peanut Butter Cups, Trident Sugar Free Gum, Albanese, Gummy Bears, Kinder Wafer Eggs or Snickers bars. Get these deals before they're gone off rents May 26. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.

[LifeLock Announcer]

Lots of places can accidentally expose you to identity theft. Doctor's offices, online retailers, insurance companies. The list goes on. Thankfully, Lifelock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats to your identity, which is way more than anyone can do on their own. LifeLock keeps an eye on your personal information, credit applications, finances and more. And if they find anything suspicious, like new loans or changes to your financial accounts, they alert you right away, all through text, phone, email, or the LifeLock LifeLock app. Even better, alerts are automatically activated the moment you become a Lifelock member. No extra work on your part. Get the alerts that could make all the difference. Don't wait. Join LifeLock now. Visit lifelock.com iheart and save up to 30% your first year. That's lifelock.com iheart for 30% off terms apply.

[Spin Quest Announcer]

Forget everything you had planned for this weekend because you are sitting on your couch and winning from the comfort of your own home. I'm here with spinquest where you can play hundreds of slot games, all the table games you love, and you could even win real cash Prizes. New users 30 coin packs are on sale for [e-mail] SpinQuest is a free

[Spin Quest Disclaimer]

to play social casino or where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. Spring is a time to give yourself a refresh, so spend time on self rejuvenation. Shop in store and online for great savings on all your favorite personal care Items. Now through May 26th. Earn 4 times points when you shop participating items like Pantene Shampoo, Crest Toothpaste, Tampax Radiant Native Shampoo and Secret Geology. Then redeem points for discounts on future purchases of groceries or fuel. Offer ends May 26th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.

[LifeLock Announcer]

Lots of places can accidentally expose you to identity theft. Doctor's offices, online retailers, insurance companies, the list goes on. Thankfully, Lifelock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats to your identity, which is way more than anyone can do on their own. Lifelock keeps an eye on your personal information, credit applications, finances and more. And if they find anything suspicious like new loans or changes to your financial accounts, they alert you right away, all through text, phone, email or the LifeLock app. Even better, alerts are automatically activated the moment you become a Lifelock member. No extra work on your part. Get the alerts that could make all the difference. Don't wait. Join LifeLock now. Visit lifelock.com iheart and save up to 30% your first year. That's lifelock.com iheart for 30% off terms apply.

[Jack Murphy]

What's up baby? It's Bretzky and I'm here to tell you that spinquest.com is giving out free free Sweeps coins. All you got to do is purchase

[Brittany Butler]

a ten dollar coin pack and guess what? They're going to give you the coins

[Jack Murphy]

from a $30 coin pack that lets you play all your favorite games like Blackjack, Wanted, Dead or Wild. And we're talking real cash prizes, baby.

[Spin Quest Disclaimer]

Spin Quest.com Spin Quest is a free to play social casino void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Foreign. Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway this spring. Sweeten your day one sweet treat at a time. Now through May 26th. Whether you're shopping for gifts for friends and family or just want to pick me up for yourself, get great deals on your favorite sweet treats. Shop in store or online, and save on items like Reese's Peanut Butter Cups, Trident Sugar Free Gum, Albanese Gummy Bears, Kinder Wafer Eggs or Snickers Bars. Get these deals before they're gone. Offer ends May 26th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.

[LifeLock Announcer]

Lots of places can accidentally expose you to identity theft. Doctor's offices, online retailers, insurance companies. The list goes on. Thankfully, LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats to your identity, which is way more than anyone can do on their own. LifeLock keeps an eye on your personal information, credit applications, finances and more. And if they find anything suspicious, like new loans or changes to your financial accounts, they alert you right away, all through text, phone, email or the LifeLock app. Even better, alerts are automatically activated the moment you become a Lifelock member. No extra work on your part. Get the alerts that could make all the difference. Don't wait. Join LifeLock now. Visit lifelock.com iheart and save up to 30% your first year. That's lifelock.com iheart for 30% off. Terms apply.

[Spin Quest Announcer]

You know what? It sucks to be bored. But when I get on my phone and play real casino games on spinquest.com, the time flies by. That two hour wait for at the DMV seems like 10 minutes. Play your favorite spots Live blackjack, live craps with a live dealer. New players $30 coin packs are on sale for 10 bucks. Play spinquest.com and you'll never be bored again.

[Spin Quest Disclaimer]

Spin Quest is a free to play social casino void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more detail.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. Spring is a time to give yourself a refresh, so spend time on self rejuvenation. Shop in store and online for great savings on all your favorite personal care Items. Now through May 26th. Earn four times points when you shop. Participating items like Pantene Shampoo, Crest Toothpaste, Tampax Radiant Native Shampoo and Secret Gel deodorant. Then redeem points for discounts on future purchases of groceries or fuel. Offer ends May 26th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.

[LifeLock Announcer]

Lots of places can accidentally expose you to identity theft. Doctor's offices, online retailers, insurance companies. The list goes on. Thankfully, LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats to your identity, which is way more than anyone can do on their own. LifeLock keeps an eye on your personal information, credit applications, finances and more. And if they find anything suspicious, like new loans or changes to your financial accounts, they alert you right away, all through text, phone, email or the LifeLock app. Even better, alerts are automatically activated the moment you become a Lifelock member. No extra work on your part. Get the alerts that could make all the difference. Don't wait. Join LifeLock now. Visit lifelong lifelock.com iheart and save up to 30% your first year. That's LifeLock.com iheart for 30% off terms apply.

[Spin Quest Announcer]

Forget everything you had planned for this weekend because you are sitting on your couch and winning from the comfort of your own home. I'm here with spinquest, where you can play hundreds of slot games, all of the table games you'll love, and you could even win real cash prizes. New users 30 coin packs are on sale for [e-mail] Spin Quest is a

[Spin Quest Disclaimer]

free to play social casino void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway this spring. Sweeten your day day one sweet treat at a time. Now through May 26th. Whether you're shopping for gifts for friends and family or just want to pick me up for yourself, get great deals on your favorite sweet treats. Shop in store or online, and save on items like Reese's Peanut Butter Cups, Trident Sugar Free Gum, Albanese Gummy Bears, Kinder Wafer Eggs or Snickers bars. Get these deals before they're gone. Offer ends May 26th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.

[LifeLock Announcer]

Lots of places can accidentally expose you to identity theft. Doctor's offices, online retailers, insurance companies. The list goes on. Thankfully, LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats to your identity, which is way more than anyone can do on their own. LifeLock keeps an eye on your personal information, credit applications, finances and more. And if they find anything suspicious, like new loans or changes to your financial accounts, they alert you right away, all through text, phone, email or the LifeLock app. Even better, alerts are automatically activated the moment you become a Lifelock member. No extra work on your part. Get the alerts that could make all the difference. Don't wait. Join LifeLock now. Visit lifelock.com iheartra and save up to 30% your first year. That's lifelock.com iheart for 30% off terms apply.

[Spin Quest Announcer]

I'm here with Spinquest where you can play and win from the comfort of your own home with hundreds of slot games and all of the table games you love with real cash prizes. Right now, thirty dollar coin packs are on sale for $10. For new users, it's [e-mail] that's S P I N Q U S T.com

[Spin Quest Disclaimer]

Spin Quest is a free to play social casino void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway this spring. Sweeten your day one sweet treat at a time. Now through May 26th. Whether you're shopping for gifts for friends and family or just want to pick me up for yourself, get great deals on your favorite sweet treats. Shop in store or online and save on items like Reese's Peanut Butter Cups, Trident Sugar Free Gum, Albanese Gummy Bears, Kinder Wafer Eggs or Snickers Bars. Get these deals before they're gone off Rens May 26. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.

[LifeLock Announcer]

Lots of places can accidentally expose you to identity theft. Doctor's offices, online retailers, insurance companies. The list goes on. Thankfully, LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats to your identity, which is way more than anyone can do on their own. LifeLock keeps an eye on your personal information, credit applications, finances and more. And if they find anything, anything suspicious like new loans or changes to your financial accounts, they alert you right away, all through text, phone, email or the LifeLock app. Even better, alerts are automatically activated the moment you become a Lifelock member. No extra work on your part. Get the alerts that could make all the difference. Don't wait. Join LifeLock now. Visit lifelock.com iheart and save up to 30 30% your first year. That's lifelock.com iheart for 30% off terms apply.

[Spin Quest Announcer]

You know what? It sucks to be bored. But when I get on my phone and play real casino games on spinquest.com the time flies by. That two hour wait at the DMV seems like 10 minutes. Play your favorite slots live Blackjack, live preps with a live dealer. New players $30 coin packs are on sale for 10 bucks. Play spinquest.com and you'll never be bored again.

[Spin Quest Disclaimer]

Spin Quest is a free to play social casino void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest For Albertsons and Safeway, Spring is a time to give yourself a refresh, so spend time on self rejuvenation. Shop in store and online for great savings on all your favorite personal care Items. Now through May20. Earn four times points when you shop participating items like Pantene Shampoo, Crest Toothpaste, Tampax Radiant Native Shampoo and Secret Yellow Deodorant. Then redeem points for discounts on future purchases of groceries or fuel. Offer ends May 26th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.

[LifeLock Announcer]

Lots of places can accidentally expose you to identity theft. Doctor's offices, online retailers, insurance companies. The list goes on. Thankfully, LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats to your identity, which is way more than anyone can do on their own. LifeLock keeps an eye on your personal information, credit applications, finances and more. And if they find anything suspicious, like new loans or changes to your financial accounts, they alert you right away, all through text, phone, email or the like LifeLock app. Even better, alerts are automatically activated the moment you become a Lifelock member. No extra work on your part. Get the alerts that could make all the difference. Don't wait. Join LifeLock now. Visit LifeLock.com iHeart and save up to 30% your first year. That's LifeLock.com iHeart for 30% off. Terms apply.

[Spin Quest Announcer]

Forget whatever plans you have this weekend because you're staying at home and playing on Spin Quest and there's never been a better time to sign up than right now. New users get $30 coin packs for just $10. All the table games you love, with hundreds of slot games and real cash Prizes. That's at spinquest.com S P I N

[Spin Quest Disclaimer]

Q U-E-S-T.com Spinquest is a free to play social casino. Avoid where prohibited. Visit spendquest.com for more details.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway this spring. Sweeten your day one sweet treat at a time. Now through May 26th. Whether you're shopping for gifts for friends and family or just want to pick me up for yourself, get great deals on your favorite sweet sweet treats. Shop in store or online and save on items like Reese's Peanut Butter Cups, Trident Sugar Free Gum, Albanese Gummy Bears, Kinder Wafer Eggs or Snickers bars, get these deals before they're gone off friends. May 26. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.

[LifeLock Announcer]

Lots of places can accidentally expose you to identity theft. Doctor's offices, online retailers, insurance companies. The list goes on. Thankfully, Lifelock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats to your identity, which is way more than anyone can do on their own. LifeLock keeps an eye on your personal information, credit applications, finances and more. And if they find anything suspicious, like new loans or changes to your financial accounts, they alert you right away, all through text, phone, email or the like LifeLock app. Even better alerts are automatically activated the moment you become a Lifelock member. No extra work on your part. Get the alerts that could make all the difference. Don't wait. Join LifeLock now. Visit LifeLock.com iHeart and save up to 30% your first year. That's LifeLock.com iHeart for 30% off. Terms apply.

[Spin Quest Announcer]

Forget whatever plans you have this weekend because you're staying at home and playing on Spin Quests, and there's never been a better time to sign up than right now. New users get $30 coin packs for just $10. All the table games you love, with hundreds of slot games and real cash Prizes. That's at spinquest.com S P I N

[Spin Quest Disclaimer]

Q U-E-S-T.com Spinquest is a free to play social casino void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway this spring. Sweeten your day, one sweet treat at a time. Now through May 26th. Whether you're shopping for gifts for friends and family or just want to pick me up for yourself, get great deals on your favorite sweet treats. Shop in store or online and save on items like Reese's Peanut Butter Cups, Trident Sugar Free Gum, Albanese Gummy Bears, Kinder Wafer eggs or Snickers Bars. Get these deals before they're gone off rents May 26. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.

[LifeLock Announcer]

Lots of places can accidentally expose you to identity theft. Doctor's offices, online retailers, insurance companies. The list goes on. Thankfully, Lifelock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats to your identity, which is way more than anyone can do on their own. LifeLock keeps an eye on your personal information, credit applications, finances and more. And if they find anything suspicious, like new loans or changes to your financial accounts, they alert you right away, all through text, phone, email, or the like LifeLock app. Even better alerts are automatically activated the moment you become a Lifelock member. No extra work on your part. Get the alerts that could make all the difference. Don't wait. Join LifeLock now. Visit lifelock.com iheart and save up to 30% your first year. That's lifelock.com iheart for 30% off terms apply.

[Spin Quest Announcer]

You know what? It sucks to be bored. But when I get on my phone and play real casino games on spinquest.com, the time flies by. That two hour wait at the DMV seems like 10 minutes. Play your favorite slots, live blackjack, live craps with a live dealer. New players 30 coin packs are on sale for 10 bucks. Play spinquest.com and you'll never be bored again.

[Spin Quest Disclaimer]

Spin Quest is a free to play social casino void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway this spring. Sweeten your day one sweet treat at a time. Now through May 26th. Whether you're shopping for gifts for friends and family or just want to pick me up for yourself, get great deals on your favorite sweet treats. Shop in Store one online and save on items like Reese's Peanut Butter Cups, Trident Sugar Free Gum, Albanese, Gummy Bears, Kinder Wafer Eggs or Snickers Bars. Get these deals before they're gone. Offer ends May 26th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.

[LifeLock Announcer]

Lots of places can accidentally expose you to identity theft. Doctor's offices, online retailers, insurance companies. The list goes on. Thankfully, LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats to your identity, which is way more than anyone can do on their own. LifeLock keeps an eye on your personal information, credit applications, finances and more. And if they find anything suspicious like new loans or changes to your financial accounts, they alert you right away, all through text, phone, email or the LifeLock app evening. Even better alerts are automatically activated the moment you become a Lifelock member. No extra work on your part. Get the alerts that could make all the difference. Don't wait. Join LifeLock now. Visit lifelock.com iheart and save up to 30% your first year. That's lifelock.com iheart for 30% off terms apply.

[Spin Quest Announcer]

Forget everything you had planned for this weekend because you are sitting on your couch and winning from the comfort of your own home. I'm here with spinquest, where you can play hundreds of slot games, all the table games you love, and you could even win real cash prizes. New users $30 coin packs are on sale for [e-mail] SpinQuest is a free

[Spin Quest Disclaimer]

to play social casino void where prohibited visit spin quest.com for more details.

[Spin Quest Announcer]

You know what? It sucks to be bored. But when I get on my phone and play real casino games on spinquest.com the time flies by. That two hour wait at the DMV seems like 10 minutes. Play your favorite spots Live blackjack, live craps with a live dealer new players $30 coin packs are on sale for 10 bucks. Play spinquest.com and you'll never be bored again.

[Spin Quest Disclaimer]

Spinquest is a free to play social casino void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details.

[LifeLock Announcer]

Lots of places can expose you to identity theft. That's why LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats to your identity, which is way more than anyone can do on their own. If we find anything suspicious, like new loans or changes to your financial accounts, we alert alert you right away, all through text, phone, email, or the LifeLock app. Save up to 30% your first year. Visit lifelock.com iheart Terms apply.

[Brittany Butler]

You know what they say early bird gets the ultimate vacation home. Book early and save over $120 with VRBO, because early gets you closer to the action, whether it's waves lapping at the shore or snoozing in a hammock that overlooks, well, whatever you want it to so you can all enjoy the payoff come summer with Verbo's early booking deals. Rise and shine average savings $141 select homes only.