Inside the Insane F-15 WSO Rescue in Iran by U.S. SOF | EYES ON GEOPOLITICS

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Team House – EYES ON GEOPOLITICS

Episode: Inside the Insane F-15 WSO Rescue in Iran by U.S. SOF
Date: April 6, 2026
Host: D (Dee Takos) with Jack Murphy, Andy Milburn, Mark Polymeropoulos, Mick Mulroy, Jonathan Hackett

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Overview

This episode features a full panel of national security and special operations experts (including veterans, ex-agency officials, and frontline reporters) discussing the dramatic recent rescue of a downed U.S. F-15 Weapon System Officer (WSO) in Iran. The conversation covers the daring raid, issues of operational secrecy, challenges for U.S. ground operations in Iran, national security decision-making, and the broader geopolitical consequences as the crisis with Iran escalates.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The F-15 Rescue Mission: What Happened

[04:32–07:56]
Jack Murphy breaks down the chronological events:

• An F-15 pilot ejected over Iran and evaded capture for about 24 hours.
• U.S. forces conducted airstrikes to distract and slow Iranian search teams.
• A complex extraction was mounted, involving helicopters and the establishment of a Forward Arming and Refueling Point (FARP) by C-130s, creating a temporary landing site.
• Extraction aircraft included MH-6 “Little Birds” (selected likely due to terrain and access issues).
• On exfil, a C-130 got stuck in “moon dust”-like soil, necessitating on-site destruction (likely by Delta Force QRF) of at least one C-130 and a helicopter. All American personnel exfiltrated safely.
• Estimated lost materiel reportedly included: F-15, A-10, two Pave Hawks, three Little Birds, two C-130s, three MQ-9 Reapers, a high cost but no American casualties.
• The specific origin of the mission is left intentionally vague for OPSEC, but was somewhere in the Persian Gulf.

Notable Quote (Jack Murphy, 04:32):
“You have to set up some sort of fuel depot. I did this many moons ago… For a little bird pilot, sometimes this is a little bit more elaborate. There’s a C-130 aircraft flown in that was refueling some of these helicopters… and the pilot was eventually pulled out by little birds.”

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2. Reflections on Special Ops, Secrecy, and Media

[08:13–10:52]

• Panelists praise the U.S. rescue ethos: “Never leave someone behind.”
• Inter-agency cooperation (JSOC + CIA) was crucial, with the CIA reportedly conducting a deception campaign as part of the recovery.
• Concern raised over the exposure of sensitive methods for public relations:
  • Mark Polymeropoulos criticizes the agency’s PR effort: “It is unseemly. I think it’s bragging… it certainly doesn’t help.” (20:35)
  • Comparison to post-Abbottabad media frenzy and risks of revealing sources/methods in real time.

Notable Quote (Mick, 08:13):
“When you pair JSOC and the Agency, super good things can happen.”

Notable Quote (Mark Polymeropoulos, 20:35):
“It is unseemly. I think it’s bragging… I don’t know if it will compromise sources and methods, but it certainly doesn’t help.”

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3. How Was the Pilot Found? Tech and Local Dynamics

[11:21–13:53, 19:11–19:35]

• ISO prep protocols, beacons, and personal recovery planning discussed with a light touch (“Jack, did you remember your ISO prep protocols?”).
• Survival electronics can be unreliable depending on ejection angle.
• Jonathan Hackett notes local Iranian villagers in the Lore region (historically anti-regime) blocked roads to delay Iranian security forces, aiding the pilot’s survival.

Notable Quote (Jonathan Hackett, 18:56):
“There were videos circulating yesterday evening… vehicles barricading the roads to prevent the Iranian security forces from actually affecting a search… passive resistance. The pilot was lucky to go down in that area.”

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4. Geopolitical Repercussions & Next Steps

[16:51–30:33, 36:25–48:44]

• The panel sharply warns that rescue success might embolden policymakers to believe U.S. ground ops in Iran are easier/less risky than reality.
• Multiple types of ground operations are assessed:
  • Targeted raids (risky, limited impact)
  • Seizing oil infrastructure or islands (hard to sustain, questionable leverage)
  • Full-scale invasion scenarios (tens of thousands of troops, likely disastrous).
• The crucial point: “Can we?” vs “Should we?”
• Need for clear strategic objectives and a diplomatic endgame.
• Historical parallel: Vietnam escalation started as a “small” limited operation.

Notable Quote (Andy Milburn, 44:03):
“You’d need tens and tens of thousands of troops. That would be a full scale invasion.”

Notable Quote (Mick, 46:36):
“The question isn’t necessarily can we? It’s should we?... This can’t just be incremental, you have to think beyond the next phase of the campaign.”

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5. U.S. Senior Leadership, Civilian Control, and Dissent

[48:44–57:27]

• Recent firings of senior military officers (e.g., Army Chief of Staff) suggest DoD is purging dissenting voices, increasing the risk that only the compliant remain.
• Discussion of the ethical obligations of senior military officers when their best advice is disregarded: is resignation warranted?
• Unique American dynamic: robust civilian oversight, congressional accountability, and the rare resignation on principle (Gen. Newbolt, 2003).
• Lack of preparedness/training for this kind of strategic dissent is critiqued as a dangerous gap.

Notable Quote (Andy Milburn, 57:13):
“There’s only been… one general who has resigned on a question of principle… and was vilified. That officers at that rank should understand the procedure… It is the cause, absolutely, of disasters like Afghanistan.”

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6. Legal & Ethical Questions for Next Steps

[57:57–64:19]

• Potential U.S. strikes on Iran’s infrastructure—especially electricity and water—could constitute war crimes if purely civilian; the “dual-use” (civilian and military) nature is debated.
• Destroying such targets would almost certainly alienate Iranian civilians and strengthen the regime’s position.

Notable Quote (Jack Murphy, 58:47):
“You’re depriving the Iranian civilian population of the things they need to survive, and it’s absolutely going to drive them toward the regime and away from us.”

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7. The Big Unanswered Question – What Now?

[62:34–65:25]

• The panel underlines that retrieving the Iranian uranium stockpile was THE key objective of the campaign—still unresolved.
• There’s deep skepticism across the guests and (they suspect) the national security community about support for the current Iran war footing.
• Panel floats the idea of polling their veteran/intel-heavy audience, speculating most listeners are against escalation.

Notable Quote (Mark Polymeropoulos, 62:34):
“The key objective is the HEU—the Iranian nuclear program. If that is not actioned properly… we have failed.”

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Memorable Exchanges & Humor

• Jokes about only remembering ISO prep protocols if the questions are “blatantly obvious.”
  (Mark/Jonathan/Jack, 11:53–13:03)
• “I just threw away a thousand lives because I didn’t want to say that’s a good idea.”
  (Jack Murphy, 46:06, on military resistance to poor decisions)
• Banter about which marine or SF group gets the toughest raid jobs and their in-jokes about British podcast audiences, BBC bookings, etc.
• Recognition for independent journalism vs. administration “spin” (Mark to Jack, 33:40).

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Timestamps of Major Segments

• 15:15 – Full panel assembled, intro to the rescue and why the episode matters.
• 04:32–07:56 – Jack Murphy’s detailed breakdown of the rescue operation.
• 08:13–12:13 – Special ops & interagency praise and the challenge of operational secrecy.
• 13:08–17:44 – Local support, pilot location protocols, and more about the Lore region.
• 19:09–20:35 – Media and PR fallout; critique of agency’s public announcements.
• 30:07–32:45 – The question of intelligence quality and policy-makers listening.
• 36:25–48:44 – Deep dive: What do successful special ops mean for future U.S. ground actions?
• 48:44–57:27 – Military-civil leadership tensions and the ethics of dissent.
• 57:57–62:34 – Strikes against Iranian civilian infrastructure: legal, ethical, strategic risks.
• 62:34–64:47 – Importance of the Iranian uranium objective; listeners’ likely opposition to war.
• 65:38–67:40 – Closing thoughts and book/podcast recommendations.

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Conclusions / Overall Tone

• The team is cautiously celebratory about the SOF rescue, brimming with professional pride but deeply wary of the strategic implications of escalation.
• There’s plainspoken dissatisfaction with intelligence ops being turned into PR and the lack of clear endgames in policy.
• Consensus emerges: the U.S. can pull off astonishing feats in special ops but shouldn't misinterpret such successes as justification for larger and riskier ventures without robust strategic and ethical justification.
• The tone is frank, informed, sometimes wryly humorous, but ultimately serious about the high stakes and risks involved.

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Notable Quotes Recap

• “It is unseemly. I think it’s bragging… I don’t know if it will compromise sources and methods, but it certainly doesn’t help.” — Mark Polymeropoulos (20:35)
• “You’re depriving the Iranian civilian population… and it’s absolutely going to drive them toward the regime and away from us.” — Jack Murphy (58:47)
• “The question isn’t necessarily can we? It’s should we? …This can’t just be incremental, you have to think beyond the next phase.” — Mick (46:36)
• “Officers at that rank should understand the procedure… It is the cause, absolutely, of disasters like Afghanistan.” — Andy Milburn (57:13)

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For more, check the referenced timestamps for core takeaways and the authentic "in the room" tone of a very insider geopolitics roundtable.

Transcript

[Jack Murphy]

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[Andy Milburn]

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[Jack Murphy]

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[Andy Milburn]

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[Jack Murphy]

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[Jack Murphy]

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[D (Host of Eyes on Geopolitics / Teamhouse)]

Hey, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Eyes on Geopolitics. Oh, my God. People are lining in. They're packing in the place. Andy Milburn's here. Hi, Andy. We just started recording. Jack Murphy, Jonathan Hackett, all Mark Polymeropoulos too. It's.

[Andy Milburn]

This is. This is unprecedented.

[D (Host of Eyes on Geopolitics / Teamhouse)]

Full.

[Jack Murphy]

Full.

[D (Host of Eyes on Geopolitics / Teamhouse)]

Full house here today.

[Andy Milburn]

This is the first time it's happened.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Brush my teeth or wash my face yet.

[Jack Murphy]

Great job. You a slice of Ukraine for this.

[D (Host of Eyes on Geopolitics / Teamhouse)]

Thank you. I appreciate that. I don't need a big spot either. I don't need a big slice either.

[Andy Milburn]

I almost appear after saying the crude jokes about. I won't even say what they were about on signal D.

[D (Host of Eyes on Geopolitics / Teamhouse)]

About Jack's prop pending. Only fans. No. Okay, so great news for once. Great. Not about the only fans, but about the F15 weapon system officer being rescued by a special operations raid that I'm going to give kudos to where they deserve that. Jack Murphy broke first and everyone doubted him. But let's get back to the story because that's the most important thing.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Who doubted him?

[Andy Milburn]

Yeah.

[D (Host of Eyes on Geopolitics / Teamhouse)]

Come on, bro. Come on, bro. You saw all the people chirping. Don't get me crazy, Mark.

[Jack Murphy]

It doesn't. It doesn't matter. It's just a peanut gallery.

[Andy Milburn]

Hey, D. Before we turn to the Jack show, and I do want to Say up front. Yeah, I'm, I'm overjoyed and very happy that we rescued a Air Force colonel from the hinterland of Iran. There's no, there's no downside to that. But I'm, I am concerned that there's a, there's kind of this incredible focus on this one very small event. I mean, it is A human life's never small. I understand.

[D (Host of Eyes on Geopolitics / Teamhouse)]

Because it's good news.

[Andy Milburn]

That's why we've all been at war. And we know saving one dude is good news. But it's a very small piece of the whole and in the long run, yes, we do these things. I think one of you said, I think Mark said we do these things very well or expected him to do very well. We have the world class organization that's dedicated to it. I don't want to diminish it, but what comes next and what else have we been doing or not doing? I think should be focus of at least 5% of the show. But I don't want to take away from. Jack's already walked out.

[D (Host of Eyes on Geopolitics / Teamhouse)]

He's like, how dare, how dare you.

[Andy Milburn]

Sorry.

[Jack Murphy]

This was awesome, man.

[Andy Milburn]

I'm back and I'll shut up.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Awesome. That would have been legendary.

[D (Host of Eyes on Geopolitics / Teamhouse)]

Yeah, so, I mean, everybody knows the news now. Major raid happened, some hiccups on the way out as well, but everyone got back safe. We had to blow up a couple of C130s and a little bird, but all the Americans were, were safely returned to like friendly airspace. So a good story. And yeah, you're right, Andy. Like the, the rest of it's a show, but, you know, where do you guys want to start? I think we need to harp. Talk about this for sure a little bit and then we'll talk about, you know, the impending, you know, bombing bridges and power plants day that's coming up on Tuesday. But yeah, Jack, tell us, run it down for us and then we'll get into it and let the guys take over.

[Jack Murphy]

Yeah, no, it sounds good. I'll try to keep it brief to be clear too. I mean, I don't know everything and don't want to put myself up like I do. You know, this thing is still developing and the military itself, I'm sure, is still doing all their after action reviews to try to figure out for themselves exactly what happened. But the broad pieces of it, as you know, There was a F15 pilot on the ground. He was escaping and evading for about 24 hours inside Iran. And from what we can tell about the effort to get him back, they Did a lot of airstrikes to keep the Iranians off of his back. The Iranians had flooded a lot of assets into the area. We're actively searching for him. And meanwhile, we have to get a ground team, helicopters in to actually extract the guy. And as we now know, they set up what's called a FARP or a forward air refueling point. So for people who aren't familiar, when you have to fly helicopters but also airplanes, sometimes especially long distances, you have to set up some sort of like a fuel depot. You know, I did this many moons ago for little birds in Iraq. You know, just driving out somewhere and taking a fuel blivot out, leaving it in a field. For a little bird pilot, sometimes this is a little bit more elaborate. There's a C130 aircraft flown in that was refueling some of these helicopters. And this kind of plays into, you know, how the pilot was actually pulled out of there. So they occupied this improvised landing strip, set up the farp, and the pilot was eventually pulled out by little birds. So those are, of course, the smaller, lighter aircraft. That 160 applies shorter range than a CH47 or MH60. So that kind of explains why the refueling part was so important to this. And I don't know all the tactical decisions that were made and why they used this airframe, but perhaps part of it was because he was in these mountains. Reportedly. I don't know. I don't know how bad it was, if he was, like, hanging on the side of a cliff or something, but maybe he was difficult to get to. So they went in and extracted him. But then on the way out, the C130 got, as I understand, a wheel stuck in the sand. It, like, sunk into the dirt, and the crew was trying to dig it out, and that resulted in some delays. It took them a while to get at off of that farpad. And the Delta Force element that was standing by as a quick reaction force was actually called in. They came in and helped blow up the aircraft. I mean, I know C1,1, C130 was blown. Some media reports are saying two C130s. I also believe at least one helicopter was blown up. I guess they just determined that they could not recover them and get them home for whatever reason. And after that happened, you know, whichever new aircraft, probably helicopters that they flew in the QRF on, they got everybody on those and flew them back home. And they were. They were back over the Persian Gulf probably around 11:30 Eastern Standard Time last night. And that was pretty much the end of the operation as far as that's concerned. But I mean the airstrikes are still ongoing so that's like the thumbnail sketch. And we'll find out a lot more in the coming days and weeks, I'm sure.

[Andy Milburn]

Where did they fly out of, Jack?

[Jack Murphy]

I'm not well, I know a couple places where JSOC has been pre positioned but yeah, I probably wouldn't get into that right now, but somewhere in the Persian Gulf.

[Andy Milburn]

Yeah, that's very helpful.

[Mick]

Yeah, that's tracking with everything. Obviously Jack is the one that broke it, so well done, Jack. I was tracking it all day yesterday as we all know because we were exchanging texts all day and I think that's spot on, at least from what I know. I would also agree just to start with Andy, that this is incredible. Great news really does highlight the ethos of the US military. We never leave somebody behind and we take extraordinary measures to get them back. I'd also point out, and I know Mark's going to have something to say about this. Great job to start with. Great job to say. The agency, they are telling people essentially they use a deception campaign and then found this individual and then vectored in these heroic operatives of JSOC to recover them. Great news. Would really like to see people adhere to the silent professionals because it does compromise, I think things in the future. So we're talking about it because it's in every news outlet in the world right now. But I'd also point out it isn't unique to this experience. If you remember Abadabad, it was like a race to tell every possible thing that went in to that as well. And it, and it exposed a lot of things that we shouldn't have. So I'd start with that. But the kudos part, as usual, when you compare when you pair JSOC and the Agency, super good things can happen. And then I would shift right now and say now we got to figure out what shot down the F15. Is it a new weapon system that was introduced? If it was, who did it? I don't believe the Iranians, that they somehow just developed it on their own in the middle of a war and whether that's going to have an impact. And then second, and I'll hold until we get to this point. The war goes on. The war goes on. Like we're running out of deadline here. It looks like it's Tuesday now. We're talking about bombing infrastructure which of course is going to have a legal connotation to it. Bridges, which might indicate

[Jack Murphy]

jump in real Quick, Mick. And point out of the sky

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

the

[Jack Murphy]

day that the F15 went down. There was a Reaper stop down. And then yesterday another one. So I think they are using. It's called like the tire surface to air missile. It's something that they make that. That's what's suspected. But There are Russian S, 3 hundreds, 400 systems out there. I don't know if we've destroyed all of them or not.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Hey, one thing I just want to throw out there because. Because I sent it in our. In our most wonderful chat we have. If anyone ever gets a hold of that, we're all screwed, by the way. But I was just thinking back to. And again, with. My background's a little bit different than everybody else. I was not in the military before, but I was in the Agency, obviously, and did a lot of stuff with. With Mick and others. And I just remember going through the ISOPREP protocols on the infill into. Into Baghdad when I was with Task Force 160 on their bird. And I was flying in there, I'm like, I forgot everything I was supposed to remember. And so. And so I want to know from you guys, do you actually. And Mick. Mick was honest in the chat, he's like, yeah, I kind of remember. Did you remember protocols for, you know, behind enemy line stuff like.

[D (Host of Eyes on Geopolitics / Teamhouse)]

Yeah, just let everybody know what ISO prep means.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

It's. It's. Probably shouldn't be talking about it. It's just a protocol of, you know, if you're. When you're.

[Jack Murphy]

The ISOPREP card isn't classified. You can find it online, isolated. It's basically just information that you fill out so that in case you become a POW during a war, that you can be identified. And there are some signals and stuff

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

about your background that you're going communicate over radio. And if someone's. If. If a. If a rescue force is coming at you. But I literally was like, I have no idea what I said. I'm totally screwed. So I'm gonna go through everybody. Jack, did you remember your ISO prep protocols?

[Jack Murphy]

I think so. I think the questions were so blatantly obvious, there's no way I could forget. Like. Like, what high school did you go to? You know, things like that.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Andy?

[Andy Milburn]

Yeah, I. No, I'm with you. I. I don't think I could. I can't remember them. I. Because when you so imagine.

[Jack Murphy]

Imagine the Delta Force team comes in to rescue Andy Milburn or Mark Pollard Meropoulos, and they're like, mark, what's your hometown like? I don't Remember, bro? Like, oh, sorry, sorry, dude, we gotta leave you here.

[Andy Milburn]

I had, I had more sophisticated ones than that, John. But Jack, I think it's. I'm sorry, go, go ahead, Mark.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

I just want to give you a poll. Jonathan, did you remember?

[Jonathan Hackett]

So I didn't remember it when I was going into country, but then when I was working on personal recovery planning, I realized how important actually all that stuff was and I was like, I should probably start remembering this stuff.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

And Mick, you already admitted you might. Yeah, right.

[Mick]

I think Jonathan remembers everything. To be frank, yes. I have been in situations where I started thinking about him.

[Andy Milburn]

But Jack, like what situation you'd use ISO prep, and that didn't really apply in this case.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Right.

[Andy Milburn]

Presumably the pilot had a beacon and for some reason there was some delay either in picking up the signal or they located the signal, but it was in an unaccessible area. Or maybe someone was telling me. Actually, I better pause here because I don't think this is classified. But there's different protocol for beacon activation when you're in combat from when you're training. In training, it goes on automatically, but there may have been a delay. Right, and that's normally how you, how you locate a downed pilot.

[Jack Murphy]

Yeah, this is outside my area of expertise. I'm not really an aviation guy. But I had someone tell me that the beacon is supposed to activate when they eject from the aircraft. But it also has something to do with like the angle of the aircraft and how they come out. Like the pitch of the aircraft can affect that. I don't understand how that works, but apparently it does make a difference. And as far as how they actually located him, I don't know. No one's told me, you know, for certain this is how it happened, but I'm sure it was a beacon or a survival radio that they ended up picking him up on.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

There's also. Let me just throw in here because Mick alluded to it and it has been in the press. There's some, I guess, reporting in multiple organizations, actually basically everybody that the agency had some role in the recovery. Not only there was a deception campaign, but also in the actual recovery. And Mick alluded to just kind of what bothered me and I was, of course, you know, howling about it in our chat. Just the notion of this is not something that should be for public consumption. And, and it's clear that kind of the agency public relations folks were sending this out at about 2 o' clock in the morning to news organizations talking about that the agency had something to do with it. And you know, so we don't know what that means, how they were able to locate them. The quote they said is that it was based on exquisite capabilities. You know, you don't know if that's signals intelligence, if it's any kind of non assisted recovery, you know, human intelligence network. Who the heck knows what it things that people do and train for and prepare for. But I think we all would have preferred that not be out. And you know, it just goes to that notion of and mix, right that you know, this administration is going to do the same thing that other administrations did. You know, Obama came out and all the, all the details of the Abbottabad operation to kill bin Laden certainly filtered out. But it's better off if this is not turns into kind of who's bragging about it? You know, what's the, what's the old saying that, you know, success has a success has a thousand fathers. You know, failure is an orphan. I can assure you that the agency would not have been emailing press organizations if this thing went kind of tits up. And so, you know, it's much better, I would much prefer if that would not be in public because you don't know if, if they could potentially compromise stuff. And it does go to the notion of in this administration everybody is really working for one individual and that's the President and everyone's got to try to impress them. And so Hegseth is going to brag about this as is John Ratcliffe. It would just be better if this was kept quiet. And again, a tremendous operation. I did have a list of, someone sent me a list of things that were lost. Obviously it was the F15, an A10, two pavehs as well, three little birds, two C130s and at least three MQ9s. And I don't know if that's accurate or not.

[Jack Murphy]

The Reapers sound right? The Paveh Hawks, I don't think they were shot down, but they were shot up. Pretty, pretty shot up. Yeah.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

So I mean that's about a half billion dollars worth of, of airframes there.

[Jack Murphy]

I would think the pilots were hit substantially as I understand it.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

So again, it's a, it's, it's so bringing and just incredible that this, this colonel gets to go home on Easter to his family. And I'm sure we'll hear a lot more about him because once again, and this is, this is just the way it is, we're going to see him at the White House, there's no doubt about that. But last point on this exactly what Mick had said is there's gotta be now a discussion of what happens next, because Trump put out the truth social post basically with a little Alou Akbar in the end, which I don't know if it's weird or racist or whatever the hell it is, but basically promising all sorts of Armageddon in the next 48 hours. If Iran didn't open up the Strait of Hormuz, we'd start hitting infrastructure targets. So interesting that the White House couldn't kind of bask in the victory of this. They then put this out, and now the discussion does have to shift into what comes next. And so here we are, it's Sunday and that deadline, I guess, is on Tuesday.

[D (Host of Eyes on Geopolitics / Teamhouse)]

Yeah, let me get hacking here. John, what's your take on all this?

[Jonathan Hackett]

Well, when we talked about the non standard assisted recovery, I think it's important to know that there are people in the region that would be there to help, whether we ask them to help or not. So in some cases we would have set up some structures to have that, but in other cases, there are people there that are just like, we want to help the American in the area because we don't support the regiment. And there were some videos circulating yesterday evening in that village, the particular village that he was on the northwest corner of, of vehicles barricading the roads to prevent the Iranian security forces from actually affecting a search. And these people had their cars just kind of strewn all about. If you see the video, it's very interesting. It's almost like a passive resistance because if you remember, the regime's aircraft are all destroyed or obliterated mostly. So they can't be used for the search and rescue. They can't use helicopters, they can't use any of these air assets except drones. So they're basically on the ground trying to drive to the location. If you look on a map, this is like powder, dirt area. It's really rough. Like, when I heard the C130 got stuck there, I was not surprised because it's basically like that moon dust that you'd see in like Helmand Province, for example, if anyone's been to Afghanistan that's listening, that you just get stuck in it. It's really tough. And that's the same problem we had with Desert One in 1980, that landing site, that it was just this moon dust that just eats stuff when it lands on it. So it was actually very nice to see that the locals there resisting the regime to try to help that American gain some time just a little bit of envelope of time to get up probably into that higher grounds that could be rescued.

[Mick]

That's interesting. That has been reported and that area

[Jonathan Hackett]

is the Lore area. That's an ethnic group that's been persecuted by the regime since day one. That's the pilot was actually lucky to have gone down in that area. It's right south of Shiraz. And these people, the Lori people are very tribal, very like closely connected to each other. And they've been, you know, trying to get rid of the regime out of that area for a long time. So probably the first moment they heard about this, they said, hey guys, let's go out and start doing something.

[Andy Milburn]

Before we, we go on to perhaps more momentous. I was surprised to see, I think it's the Wall Street Journal cover this story that you guys were just talking about the deception claim by, by the agency saying. And it gets back to. It does seem extraordinary, doesn't it, that an intelligence agency would, would announce that because especially for Mick and Mark, doesn't that potentially compromise a method? If they did use that method, it compromises using it again. I mean, they're saying that they somehow planted a story that gained momentum, that the yeoman had already been recovered. Now, I don't know how they did that. I mean, if it's. But, but it's not. It just. I'm not commenting that it seems unseemly, but it just seems extraordinary. Unless there's some motive other than chest beating.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

No, it is unseemly. I think it's bragging. It's the notion of people try to take credit and everyone's vying for their kind of supremacy in the national security pantheon. That's why Ratcliffe and Tulsi Gabbard and Marco Rubio all have offices at the White House. They spend a lot of time there. I just, you know, so I think, you know, is it going to compromise, you know, sources and methods? I don't know, but it certainly doesn't help. And the problem is now that everyone kind of has the sniffing around on this. I mean, you can't email reporters at 2 o' clock in the morning. It's just. Which is what the agency did then. The reporters were then using the quote, according to a senior administration official. But it's not. It was, it was the agency public relations staff. So now they're going to start digging. They wouldn't have been digging without this. And when, when reporters in Washington start digging, they're eventually going to get the story and someone's going to say something and so to me, that was kind of just unnecessary.

[D (Host of Eyes on Geopolitics / Teamhouse)]

Hey, what's up guys? This is D. Do us a favor and check out our patreon page. It's patreon.com the teamhouse. You get both Teamhouse episodes and Eyes on Geopolitics episodes completely ad free. You get them early too. You can ask us questions. You can also watch the team ass episodes live as we shoot them. So. And you help support the show and support what we're doing here. It's patreon.com theteamhouse those links are in the description or if you're listening, it's in the show notes down below. So you can click it real quick and easy and it helps us keep the lights on. So we appreciate it and we appreciate you guys listening. Thanks a bunch.

[Martha (Kohler Cast Iron Ambassador)]

When Kohler, the global design leader in luxurious kitchen and bath products, came to me and said, martha, we need an ambassador for our timeless, elegant, durable cast iron products. I said, I'm in. Now let me see the factory. Weeks later, I was suited up in coveralls and work boots, walking through their Kohler Wisconsin cast iron foundry. I stood next to the molten iron furnace, saw the hand applying enamel, and touched the gorgeous finished products waiting to be sent out into the world. Since 1883, Kohler cast iron products have been forged and finished by the incredible craftspeople right in Kohler, Wisconsin. I'll tell you, I gained a newfound respect and appreciation for for Kohler's cast iron craftsmanship. So now I am lending my discerning stamp of approval to my most beloved Kohler cast iron products for their durability, beauty and timelessness. Shop my Kohler Cast Iron favorites curated on Kohler.com bring the warmth, character and enduring style of these timeless products into your kitchens and bathrooms. As the Kohler Cast Iron ambassador, I say, long live Cast iron.

[Chelsea Handler]

This is Chelsea Handler from Dear Chelsea. After the Big Game. Like most people, I kept thinking about the commercials. And there was one that stayed with me. It was from the Blue Square Alliance Against Hate. And it wasn't loud or flashy. It showed a Jewish kid being targeted at school and another student who chose not to ignore it. As someone who was Jewish, that moment felt very real to me. Not dramatic, just familiar. And what struck me was how clearly it showed that hate doesn't always announce itself, but the impact is still huge. If you saw the Blue Square spot during the big game, it's worth thinking about. And if you want to show support, sharing the Blue Square is one small way to do that.

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[Jack Murphy]

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[Andy Milburn]

And for, for the agency guys here, I mean we have representatives from all over here, right? Even the Ranger regiment, equal opportunity. But for, for Mick and Mark specifically, I, and I think you made a comment about this Mark actually in our chat. But there are, again, you know, I'm not downplaying this, but there are more important things an intelligence agency should be focusing on, right, during this war. You know, I hate to hold up Mossad as an example, but presumably they know a fair amount about what's going on, Iranian intentions, that they've clearly infiltrated Iran's regime to quite an extent. And there's very little talk about what the Iranians do next. We broadcast what we're doing. Presumably we're relying on the Israelis to do this. Do we? Are we too focused on minutiae, I guess in the intelligence community is where I'm heading and too reliant on our partners.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

To Mick, I want Mick to answer it because I'm going to raise something with them. This is where kind of Mick's old world and what he did in the paramilitary side is so good. There's 20 years of the gwat and we perfected this and I dabbled in it when I was a base chief and then I worked on some ISR stuff. But the kinetic part of it, manhunting or personnel recovery or kind of COVID action, that's what Mick and his SAC colleagues did. And we're really good at it. What I do question now is are we good at penetrating the Iranian regime in terms of an asset in the Supreme Leader's office, plans and intentions? This is strategic intelligence that can formulate decision making. And I wonder if the agency kind of got drunk on its own success in gwat stuff and I'm guilty of it. And we wouldn't even say guilty. That's what we're tasked to do. But are we good at kind of hard target foreign intelligence operations where we can help the President, his national security team say, what's the Iranians going to do next? And Mick, that's Teeing it up for you.

[Mick]

Yeah, thanks, Mark. I mean, you know, we just had this summit out here, and on the intel side, there was all different components of the Agency. It wasn't just, you know, the PM dudes. I think sometimes we, to be frank, we get too much credit. Not credit, but like, it's just so much attention because of the. It plays, well put it that way, when a lot of what the Agency does is behind the scenes and nobody talks about it and they do incredible work. So I actually. Yes, we're very good at finding people. That's why I was pointing out you put JSOC and the CIA together, we can do a lot of this stuff, and it's the most significant operations that we all talk about, and we should still be able to do that and we should be able to do all of this. By the way, it's like a D.C. thing to say. It's either or, like, oh, either you do paramilitary stuff or you penetrate the crime level. Let's do both, man. I think we do actually have really good human assets. If you look at, like, before the war in Ukraine, how much information we actually had, I think there's a lot of examples that, where I think it actually breaks down, and I get a lot of this from my last job, is do people listen to it? Right. Because, you know, if. If. Even if we have the best penetration, the best analytics, you know, analyst and the analytical product, it still has to be listened to by the policymakers. If they all go on their own presumptions, as if their just thoughts are just as important as, you know, the Agency's analytical piece on what Putin intends to do is equal, then it's. It just doesn't necessarily work. So a part of it is, is whether it's used correctly. I always thought that when we discuss policy, the intelligence community. So it's not just the Agency, of course, that should be what sets the facts. If you, if they don't set the facts, then it's just personal presumptions and agendas that sets the facts. Then we go from there on discussing, you know, what we should do based on that. And I think that's where. And not just in, you know, this administration, but other administrations where they just. They treat it as just another data point. And I think we need to get back to like, no, that's the entire 18.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

One thing on that.

[Jack Murphy]

I hear you.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

And everyone knows the President probably doesn't listen to taxpayers. You know, Marco Rubio still gets the pdb, the President's daily brief, so does Dan Cain, the chairman, so does Pete Hegseth. Basically the entire national security cabinet gets the pdb. So with that argument, that would then say that, okay, the intelligence, the analysis, everything was there and then the entire national security team ignored it, as did the president. And so to me, that's where I kind of, that's where I think the congressional oversight's got to come in. Where's Hipsy and Sissy saying what was in the pdb? What was briefed to people? And what did you XYZ cabinet members say to the President? Because the argument that everything was there and everything was solid and good, fine, the president doesn't listen. But then, you know, does Ratcliffe not brief him? What about Tulsi Gabbard? What about Dan Cain? What about Pete Hegseth? What about Marco Rubio? And so then the process really has fallen down. If what are they scared of telling the president the truth or is he just not listening? So that's where I think there needs to be some more kind of certainly media attention.

[Mick]

Yeah. So just quickly on that. I mean, I think you're spot on and I think we're going to find out.

[D (Host of Eyes on Geopolitics / Teamhouse)]

Right.

[Mick]

So the eminent threat was it, wasn't it? You know, all regime change. What did the intelligence community say collectively about the possibility of that happening? If it's in there that said it's not going to happen. And then we went out and said it was. I mean, that's a choice. It's not a, it's not a crime, of course, it's just a difference of opinion. But we'll find out how accurate the intelligence community was on.

[Jack Murphy]

It's a really good point.

[Mick]

It's going to come out eventually.

[Andy Milburn]

In the aftermath, 7October works, of course, you know, everyone asked the question, how does Israel, with one of the most technically competent intelligence communities in the world, miss all the pointers and pointers? There were aplenty. And the answer is they didn't miss them, but no one was listening because they were so programmed into thinking that Hamas was not a threat. But the reports were being made and the briefs were being made. But I just want to follow on question for you guys because, I mean, isn't it fair to say it's kind of rhetoric question. Right. But isn't it fair to say, I mean, the US Intelligence community is held most accountable probably among all Western intelligence communities. Right. I mean, since, you know, things like the Church Commission, the requirement to share certain intel with the, with the committees. And so isn't it the case that where there are failures, at least there is accountability and follow up and a reckoning.

[Jack Murphy]

HIPC and SISI kind of like tie Congress into the intelligence community in a way that I don't think really exists even in other Western countries where it's like, hey, Congress, you're culpable for this as well.

[Mick]

Yeah, I mean, I've. Most other services close to par with us, they don't do near the same amount of oversight. I mean, I've talked to, I don't. I mean, I've talked to the Israelis that say, like, hey, all our lawyers do is write our wills. That's it. Right. We obviously, I mean, it's. We're different country. I'm not, I'm not complaining or saying she changed, but.

[Andy Milburn]

Well, the idea, the old idea that we're rogue is things that have happened in the past.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Right?

[Jack Murphy]

Yeah, it's an interesting kind of like dynamic that, you know, we have like powerful intelligence community, but at the same time, like, I mean, just the, the team house podcast that we do. Tell me what country would clear its intelligence officers, former intelligence officers, to come and like talk about the profession and have some sort of interface with the public. So America's in a very like, kind of unique position in that sense.

[Andy Milburn]

Not only that, but drink hot alcohol in a living room setting.

[Jack Murphy]

That's only you, Milburn.

[Andy Milburn]

New York Times.

[Jack Murphy]

New York Times quote.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

That was a New York Times quote.

[D (Host of Eyes on Geopolitics / Teamhouse)]

Yeah, we're very proud of that.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Jack, I just got a note from someone and you'll like this. Cause it's very highbrow. I'm not going to tell you who it is from the Atlantic though. So Atlantic's pretty. Whoa, reputable place. And let me, let me find this. Hold on. Here it goes. He wrote you sent something. He goes, jack's take. Smiley face. He said he has very good sources. There you go.

[Jack Murphy]

My ears are gone.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

You're getting.

[D (Host of Eyes on Geopolitics / Teamhouse)]

Tell him to cite Jack in his next article.

[Jack Murphy]

You know, Well, I.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

There's something to be said. I mean, you know, and just not to, not to toot your horn too much, but, you know, the, you know, the importance of kind of independent journalism is huge. And one of the things, and I think it's worth talking to a little bit is that, you know, what bothers me as both, you know, just like Mick, we work for established organizations is a lot of the reporting is just regurgitation of some senior administration official calling someone a reporter and, you know, giving them their spin. And then it turns out to. Then they just kind of spew it out. And that drives me crazy. That's not deep dive reporting. That's not actually getting to the facts. And, you know, there's, you know, everybody kind of follows Axios religiously because they have a direct line into the administration on stuff, but it literally is a propaganda arm. And I like those folks and I know them. If you understand that, it's fine. I do want to hear what, you know, what Axios reports on the Middle East. But I also know that, you know, it's coming from Jared Kushner and Steve, Steve Witkoff directly. It's interesting, but it's not news. And so, you know what, what you do and some others is actually really important because it's deep dives a lot of times. It's long, kind of hard, you know, several investigations. But you do get people to talk to you and talk to you. Not as a, you know, as, you know, an administration official spewing the line. It's actually what actually is happening. So kudos on that.

[Jack Murphy]

I appreciate that, Mark. And, you know, I'll just point out, you know, I, I write a lot of this sort of investigative stuff with Sean Naylor on the high side, and we have a couple JSOC pieces we're working on now that I can't get into at the moment, but one of them will be coming out probably in the coming weeks, and then the other depending on how things shape up in the Middle east, how that went, when that. When, if that will ever see the light of day. But yeah, thanks, thanks for that, Mark. Appreciate it.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Hey, Jonathan, I got a question for you because I think where we should would shift. Sorry, D, I'm stealing your thunder on one thing I just want to make sure we get this in here is. So we just saw this really extraordinary ground up. It was a ground operation. There's a pilot or an aviator down. Sorry, wizard down.

[Jonathan Hackett]

The.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Clearly US Special Forces on the ground. We lost maybe half a billion dollars worth of aircraft, a firefight, all this stuff that happened. Thank God everything's okay now. Jonathan, we're talking about, you know, the 82nd Airborne's there, the 75th Ranger Regiment, there's, you know, the MEW is now on station. What does the events of the last several, several days mean for U.S. forces on the ground in Iran? It seemed to me the Iranians put up a bit of a fight. And so, you know, is it something American people should get okay, better get prepared because, you know, we're not going to get lucky again. That just doesn't happen time after time. And so, you know, what are your thoughts on now, future ground operations, especially with Trump, you know, threatening Armageddon?

[Jonathan Hackett]

It's interesting you asked that because actually, right before this, I was on with BBC and they asked me the exact same thing.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

There you go.

[Jonathan Hackett]

And I'll tell them, I'll tell you what I said to them. Basically that the personal recovery mission is a contingency operation that's bolted on to the main operation, and it's not going to shift the direction of flow of what's happening in the decision space, both with Admiral Cooper and with the President all the way between the two of them. So we executed that well successfully. But it doesn't change really, like, the momentum of the larger operation going on. And still I think the President's trying to decide, do I do a ground invasion or not? Do I take Heart island or not? Do I do the uranium or not? And I think, you know, there's a lot in the administration pushing him toward the infrastructure option, which would be a disastrous choice for a variety of reasons, not just from the international law perspective, but also like, if you want the will of the people in Iran to remain on your side, don't take out their electricity, their water, their food, their safety, what remains of it. And we've talked about this on the show before, that in 2003, we had a very successful invasion in the first few months, and then we made some strategic mistakes in how we handled the people in the country, and that turned out very badly for every person involved on every side. And I think that we're nearing that kind of ledge right now as far as decision, which direction do we move? And I think hitting the infrastructure, which certainly take us toward that bad outcome. And I think that's what is probably the pressure going on right now in, in where do we go? But that personal recovery mission, I think, is kind of a nicely packaged success that's not exactly connected to that main effort that we're seeing moving forward.

[D (Host of Eyes on Geopolitics / Teamhouse)]

Who wants it? There's a. There's a lot of you guys. Someone has something to say.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Yeah. So Andy or Mick or Jack. I'm someone, you know, in terms of. All right, ground ops next. What is this? What does this app tell us?

[Andy Milburn]

Yeah, I mean, John. John, actually, John. He.

[Jack Murphy]

He.

[Andy Milburn]

John's. John's like the. The darling of the BBC, but because he's. Because he's tired sometimes of being the poster boy, the British public, he farms out in a little. He's like, yeah, you know, I've got a friend who can probably answer those Questions better. And so I appeared on the Telegraph podcast with Oliphant, right, Roland Oliphant, which is a real name, talking about potential ground operations. And I'll keep this very quick because you guys, you know, I don't want to overstate the obvious, but we talk through five different types of ground operations from targeted, from targeted raids in the Straits of Hormuz, going after specific target sites with an immediate withdrawal, right? All the way through to the uranium mission, which we can now discard, by the way, because the President said uranium is not important. So that narrows it down to four potential ground operations. And I'll, I'll list them just for the sake of, if I've missed anything, let me know. So, number one, lowest risk targeted rates. By the way, when I talk about raids and I talk about Marines being involved, and this is for argument among you guys, whether you're Marines or not, but we're not talking about AAVs and amphibious shipping in the Straits of Hormuz. That would be insane beyond, you know, even, even my battalion commanders, previous battalion commander's perception of risk. You know, we're probably talking long range insertion using V22s with a massive aviation stack overhead. So it's a, it really is a limited. You can, it's just like the, the mission that just took place. You, you can't sustain that indefinitely. Right. So anyway, targeted rates going after two things, you know, things that, that we, that could not be destroyed from the air. Radar storage facilities, missile launchers. Missile launchers, by the way, are notoriously difficult to hit from the air. Right, because bda, I think one of you said, and I couldn't agree more, BDA is always bullshit unless you put boots on the ground to verify bda. So you got a kind of a, you've got the destruction element and then you've got the confirmation element and putting boots on the ground to do that. And the Marines can train to do that, and it's feasible. I didn't say it's a good idea. All right. It's still high risk and you don't really get a strategic gain because even if you knock out all these threats on the straight in the straits of Hormuz, on those half a dozen islands, you haven't eliminated the threat because you've got like a 30 mile coastline just to the north. And even if you, by the way, even if you secure that coastline, Iranians can lob things over the head of troops on the ground from the Iranian hinterland, as we know, and still hit shipping. So It's a difficult problem. Set number two is Carg Island. Why we would want to seize Khag Island, I don't know. But let's just say for the sake of argument we're doing it to seize the export infrastructure so that we have leverage to, and driving Iran to the negotiations table. There's a couple of problems with that that anyone can talk about that Iran has other ports they can export oil from. Not to the great same degree. But also if we, if we close down Iran's ability to export oil we remove their incentive for keeping the straits open at all. So and plus now you've got to keep, you're only doing that, you only have that leverage as long as you have troops on the ground and entry is easy, forceable entry is relatively easy. Sustainment, force protection are going to be a real challenge and it gets exponentially worse day by day that you have troops hanging out on, on Carg island and, and so you know you've got a third type of raid where you're seizing the islands in the Gulf. Same problems with that. Even worse. Now you don't have a planned withdrawal. They're not really raids. Now you are a sitting target again well within range. So you see where I'm heading on this. Where is the strategic effect that you are having as you ramp up the risk for your own forces? Very limited. The last one would be a landing. There's a port Banda of Jask. Right it's right at the mouth of the straight opposite Oman would be a suitable landing site. Again it would be long range healer borne insertion. I say that that's probably a particular, you know that would be a good beachhead to use. But you, but, and then, and then secure key terrain up and down the coast. So you'd have to push north and west, you'd have to push inland a little bit to protect your, your beachhead. You're not talking about 2 muse now you're talking about a division sized element. So 2 mews might move in and seize terrain but then you're going to have to put in army guys. Right? That's you know, the, I can bring myself to say that word. And again you're a fixed target and now, and now you've got Iranian ground forces maneuvering against you on interior lines and you've got all the problems of sustainment. You're going to have to fly shit in from Oman and your risk ramps up and up. So I'll pause there and just say it's really difficult for me to see A strategic gain from any ground operations that would be worth the risk.

[Jonathan Hackett]

And Andy, if I could elaborate on that a little bit. So we're talking about the inside of the Straits of Hormuz in the Persian Gulf with all those scenarios, but that excludes the 500km of shoreline that's outside the Strait of Hormuz that also belongs to Iran, that also has ports at it. There are, and there are IRGC Navy port facilities on that outer portion, which to put it in context is the entire length of the northern Oman shoreline as well.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Hackett]

Massive amount of territory and terrain that you cannot just go and seize with a sing. Single Marine unit.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Yep.

[Andy Milburn]

You would, you would need tens and tens of thousands of troops. They would be a full scale invasion.

[Jack Murphy]

I, I think, you know, Andy, I mean, you're, you're spot on with all the Marine Corps tactics and how this stuff works and why it's probably not a good idea. But I mean, I just wanted to chime in about, you know, okay, that's probably, you know, your, your point of view is probably the correct one, but which one is going to be the prevailing point of view on this topic? And I think that, you know, perhaps what last night proved to some people was that actually we can do ground operations in Iran after all. So I think we may be going down a different route. And you know, since the Maduro raid may be learning some of the wrong lessons, as some of you guys pointed out, like your luck is only going to hold out for so long before something really bad happens. And maybe we're making a mistake here in seeing JSOC as this easy button that you can mash to resolve some of these problems. And I think we are moving down the road to special operations raids and maybe other more conventional stuff too.

[Andy Milburn]

But this is, and we've talked about this on the team house before too, but this is where, you know, we treat four star generals like viceroys. They're treated like kings in the US Military. They, and that's why so many of them cease to believe that they're even human beings. But the downside of that, the downside of that is this, this is the time to really dig in your heels and say, hey boss, that's the risk isn't worth the gain. Right. And there is such a thing as an obligation to the Constitution, which can be translated as an obligation to what you, you do know is right for, well, for, it's just. For not just the rank and file, but what is or is not an American interest. I'm on Thin ice here because people are going, I'm challenging civilian control. The military. I'm not. I'm just saying best military advice means more than, hey, he didn't take my advice. So we just went ahead and did it, right?

[Jack Murphy]

Yeah, I just threw away a thousand lives because I didn't want to say that's a good idea.

[Andy Milburn]

But I said it wasn't a good idea.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

But hey, man, I got in an argument last week about this.

[Mick]

But let me, let me talk about Andy's point first.

[Jonathan Hackett]

What?

[Mick]

I agree with it all and I haven't seen that level of description, quite frankly, out there. And it needs to be, we need to actually talk about this, what this would actually entail, because people just say, oh, we got Marines and a mew. And it's, that's a very small element.

[Spinquest Advertiser]

Right.

[Mick]

It's going to have to be much more than the current capability we have in the region. So. And what I'd say is, yes, if you tell Marines and Rangers to take the objective, they will freaking take the objective. Like they're a very similar species and they don't, they don't, they don't not accomplish the mission. But the question isn't necessarily can we? It's should we? And if we, if we think we should, we have to think about the consequences because there's a chance that we take Carg island and we will take casualties, but the Marines and Rangers or whoever's assigned to that and all these other objectives, they'll take it. But what if it doesn't have the strategic impact we would like to see? What if the Iranians say, okay, I guess you have Carg island, we're just going to target you now until you withdraw. What if we get on the actual mainland of Iran just like Andy just described, and then it's all about being able to stay there and what if we leave and then they close the streets down immediately? We have to have a long term plan. We have to be thinking that way. It isn't just, you know, the military can do it, so let's do it. That isn't necessarily strategic thinking. That's, that's essentially civilians trying to do tactical and operational thinking. So we should have several steps ahead. How is this going to advance our strategic objectives and start looking. And I know that we are, I think we are for a diplomatic resolution because this just keeps getting escalated and escalated. And it's important to point out, and somebody actually Vietnam vet just pointed this out to me this week. The ground operations in Vietnam started, was sending in the Marines to take the airport into dang. And they said it was going to be a limited duration and a limited amount of forces. And we all know what happened from there. I'm not saying that's what's going to happen here, but we got to think. This can't just be incremental. You have to think beyond the next, you know, the, the next phase of the campaign. Why are we doing this and how would we get out of it if it doesn't work? And you know, you know, ego sometimes make us stay places much longer than we should where. When it's already gone past any kind of advantage that we would have.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Here's a question for you guys, because now I think we're getting to the discussion. I just joked before, Mick, we had a bit of a tussle last week about this issue just in terms of how much senior US Military leadership should be kind of telling truth to power. And then what if the policymaker doesn't listen? But just taking that even a different step. I think last week or several days ago, the Army Chief of Staff was removed. Do you all, with your experience and your contacts, have faith in, well, the civilian leadership at DoD, but also that there are the right people in place, even on the uniform side? I mean, so when the Army Chief of staff, who even Fox News came out, General Keane came out and said was not happy about this. What is the climate there in terms of. Dissent is the wrong word. It's just telling truth to power. Hey, we should not do this. You know, what are your thoughts on that? Because, I mean, everybody I talk to, and this is a great expert panel here, is of the same mindset, like, what are we doing in terms of introducing ground forces? This is crazy. Where's the uniformed senior leadership on this? And what about the civilian leadership of the Pentagon?

[Mick]

I'll be quick because I got to jump back on, which is why I'm wearing. I think we see. We've seen 24. I mean, Jack might correct me if I'm wrong. 24.

[Martha (Kohler Cast Iron Ambassador)]

When Kohler, the global design leader in luxurious kitchen and bath products, came to me and said, martha, we need an ambassador for our timeless, elegant, durable cast iron products. I said, I'm in. Now let me see the factory. Weeks later, I was suited up in coveralls and work boots, walking through their Kohler Wisconsin cast iron foundry. I stood next to the molten iron furnace, saw the hand applying enamel, and touched the gorgeous finished products waiting to be sent out into the world. Since 1883, Kohler cast iron products have been forged and finished by the incredible craftspeople right in Kohler, Wisconsin. I'll tell you, I gained a newfound respect and appreciation for Kohler's cast iron craftsmanship. So now I'm lending my discerning stamp of approval to my most beloved Kohler Cast Iron products for their durability, beauty and timelessness. Shop my Kohler Cast Iron favorites curated on Kohler.com bring the warmth, character and enduring style of these timeless products into your kitchens and bathrooms. As the Kohler Cast Iron Ambassador, I say long live Cast Iron.

[Chelsea Handler]

This is Chelsea Handler from Dear Chelsea. After the Big Game like most people, I kept thinking about the commercials and there was one that stayed with me. It was from the Blue Square Alliance Against Hate and it wasn't loud or flashy. It showed a Jewish kid being targeted at school and another student who chose not to ignore it. As someone who is Jewish, that moment felt very real to me. Not dramatic, just familiar. And what struck me was how clearly it showed that hate doesn't always announce itself, but the impact is still huge. If you saw the Blue Square spot during the Big Game, it's worth thinking about. And if you want to show support, sharing the Blue Square is one small way to do that.

[Spinquest Advertiser]

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[Jack Murphy]

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[Mick]

Senior like flag officers be, you know, retired early. To me that indicates that what you're saying they should be doing, they're doing, they are saying and they're getting fired. So what my concern is we're going to get down to people who can't even retire yet, but also are the people who aren't going to push back. But I do think the fact that we've seen that level, which has got to be unprecedented in such a short period of time, that they are doing what you say they should be doing. That they are saying this is a bad idea. I disagree. When you relieve the Chief of Staff of the army so a four star general who went from a private to a general in the middle of a war, that indicates that he was doing what you're saying that he should be doing. I don't have any direct knowledge of that, but, and he's just one of many. Right. We've seen, we've seen a lot of good things.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

That's in the future then in terms of decision making. I mean. So in some ways I hear what you're saying, but you know, that means we might be taking decisions.

[Mick]

They're not accepting dissent. Yeah, that's a problem.

[Jonathan Hackett]

I think the self commander was also booted right before the Maduro raid as well because he opposed the lead up to that.

[D (Host of Eyes on Geopolitics / Teamhouse)]

Andy, what are your thoughts? I mean you're the most senior former, you know, big wig, full bird. What are your thoughts?

[Andy Milburn]

Well, I think, you know, I mean you, you know my thoughts, right? I mean we talked about this on, on the team house. Of course there's an obligation, everyone knows that there is an obligation to give best military advice. What people differ on is what happens when that advice is turned down. Right. And it's very interesting, you know, I mean I can, I can opine about it, but, but it's very interesting to hear four star generals talk about this and, and it, and there is no agreement. You know, I've talked to General Votel about it, I've talked to Admiral Stavridis about it and they both, they have a different view. So it's, so my point is, it's kind of interesting that we don't nurture our officers as they go up the chain. We teach them a lot of things, we teach them all this joint operation shit, but they don't, we don't teach them what are the proper actions at that nexus between, at the strategic leadership nexus, between the civilian leadership and the military. And so they're ill prepared for it and they're trying to make their own decisions. There's only been, until this point, there's only been one general who has resigned on a question of principle because his advice wasn't taken. And that was a Marine three star by the name of Greg Newbolt in 2003 over going to the war in Iraq. And it didn't make big news. He was basically the joint staff operations officer for Rumsfeld and kept saying, hey, this is a bad idea, bad idea. And then in the end resigned and wrote an article about it for Time magazine and was vilified. I mean, remember the Iraq war when it kicked off, everyone owned it and then subsequently everyone disowned it. But at the time he was vilified for what he did. But I happen to be a fan of, he was my new commander. And it was the only principled decision of resignation that I have seen among a senior officer, and that's disturbing. That's all I'll say, is that officers at that rank should understand the procedure. What does happen? What does happen if I think this is going to result in a catastrophic or just massive loss of life for no gain? I mean, and this. And the last thing I'll say is, you know, I've been shot in the face for talking about this before. But the reason why our senior officers don't understand about this is they're not taught to. They're not taught to discuss it, because everyone's afraid of. Of being seen to challenge civilian leadership, which it's not. And it is the cause, absolutely the cause of disasters like Afghanistan, because Congress, as we've seen, the War Powers act, is shite. No one wants to debate the war. And so what's the next line of defense? Well, the next line of defense are the senior military officers. Right. And again, I don't think that their duty is simply to give their best military advice and then meekishly accept whatever comes in the aftermath. And I'm not talking about this administration. I'm talking about, generally speaking, as a profession of arms. It's a massive gap in our collective education.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Didn't you always have your resignation letter in your top drawer?

[Andy Milburn]

Yeah, like Eisenhower, right before D Day, supposedly. So he said. I think he wrote it after D Day when it was a success. But there you go.

[Jack Murphy]

I think it was Chris Miller who told me there's, like, some sort of standing rule about you don't have more personal mementos in your office than you can carry in, like, one box. Because if you get canned like that.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Hey, Jack, I got a quick question for you before we go. And it has to do with, you know, this. This threat from Trump in terms of infrastructure attacks. And there's, you know, and, you know, I'm certainly not a lawyer, but there is some question on, you know, there was two things. One is to the degree of which these are valid military targets or potentially war crimes. And I'm not arguing for that, but that's out there. There was a lot of questioning, say, well, wait a second, if we start hitting civilian targets, is that the right thing to do legally? And then the other part is what, you know, is actually, as we're trying to win the hearts and minds of the Iranians, at some point, doesn't this shift to punishing the Iranian people? Is that a good idea there? But it does look like we're only several days or hours even away from doing this. If we haven't started to be doing it already. And so I just wanted to know kind of from your perspective on what seems to be the next phase.

[Jack Murphy]

I mean, I think it's a terrible idea. We're talking about power plants, desalination plants, things like this. There is like legally an argument to be made if they're like dual use facilities. So like, maybe you're producing fissile material for a nuclear reactor, but you can also use that to produce nuclear weapons. Now you get into kind of a debate about like, how much of this is civilian, how much of it is military. It's the same thing. Like the conversation has come up recently about data centers and are these data centers that are being hit lawful targets? Some data centers are dual use. And our judge, our Jags have looked at this issue in the past, including data centers in America where DOD contracts space out inside them for its own stuff. They determined that those data centers would be lawful targets in a war. So if the Iranians were to blow up a data center in the United states that the DoD shares space with, that would be probably a lawful target. Again, I'm not a lawyer, but as I understand it, it would be considered legal. So those are some of the questions you get into. But then when you're talking about like a desalination plant that's there to produce, you know, potable water for people or electrical power plant, I mean, this is like, yeah, you're depriving the Iranian civilian population of the things they need to survive and it's absolutely going to drive them towards the regime and away from us.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Well, we're there, we're almost there. Yeah, I think they're running out of

[Jack Murphy]

military targets is part of it, you know, so this is sort of the frustration that's being vented. You know, it's an emotional, in my opinion, an emotional decision being made.

[D (Host of Eyes on Geopolitics / Teamhouse)]

Also I want to just mention, like, if we did go after the Isfahan facility for the uranium, you know, and we set up shop for, you know, a couple of weeks, two to three weeks, right. While we're digging this up and we have a Ranger or 82nd Airborne Security Position setting a perimeter while our guys are going in there digging and we have stacked upon stackable stack of air power, bombing the out of whoever comes close to them. You're talking three weeks of like sustained operations where like yesterday, you know, Twitter and the Internet was ablaze with like videos and things like that. And like while this is like just I try to picture what it would look like if we actually went through with trying to snatch the uranium. And like, just in the world we live in now, things are going to get out and we're going to be able to see this in hd, right? Like geolocated. I just wonder what that would do with, like, just, I don't know, people's thoughts on this war and even our own, the guys who fight the war. I don't know, it just sounds insane to me to think about.

[Jack Murphy]

Yeah, it is. I'm not going to say too much about it, but I think at this stage, at this stage in the game, at some point we're going to have to go in and get that enriched uranium in some manner. Now that could happen, that there's a ceasefire and we go in under those pretexts, or maybe we go in unarmed under those pretexts after a ceasefire and get it out of there, you know, peacefully. Or we go in there in a denied environment and we do it by force. But leaving, you know, it's reported something like 400 kg of enriched uranium under the desert. You can't just leave it there because sooner or later some asshole is going to go and dig it up. And you don't need 400kg, you just need a couple milligrams of it to cause a really big problem, to create a dirty bomb or something like that and detonate that and, you know, in the Middle east or Europe or whatever. So we can't just leave that fissile material out there in the desert. Like, at some point, in some manner, we're going to have to get it.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

And Jack, don't forget, that was the war objective. That's the, that is the key objective of this entire campaign is that they. You cannot. I don't care. Like, I tried to make a stupid analogy the other day. Like, all right, so we've sunk the entire Iranian navy and beaten the crap out of their, you know, their, their land forces. Well, that's like, you know, the Los Angeles Dodgers beating the Vienna Little League baseball team. Like, that's not. I mean, that's. Of course we should be doing that. But the key objective is the HEU is this is the Iranian nuclear program. If that, if that is not actioned properly, whether it's militarily, diplomatically, both we have failed. And so to me, that would, you know, that's why I actually agree with you. And again, it goes to the whole signal versus noise thing. Like, you know, there's a lot of noise out there, but the signal is that this is going to have to be taken Care of in some fashion. D Quick question for you. Here's. I don't know how we do this. You have tremendous, there's tremendous listeners here in this, whether it's an IZON or the team house, but it's this, it's a really unique network of national security folks, formers, current Special operations, Intel. I wonder what a poll would be if you took a poll of all the listeners of both shows, of all your shows, do they support this war or not? And I say that only because I keep running into people in this world, in this ecosystem, who are really against it. And that's not always the case, but I think it was based on the fact Trump ran on not doing this. But also everyone still has a lot of trauma from Iraq and Afghanistan. But it would be really interesting to know is your listeners, which are in a. Which have a massive, you know, there's a massive number of them. What would be the percentages who are in favor of this or not? So, D, this is your task to find out how we do this. That'd be really.

[D (Host of Eyes on Geopolitics / Teamhouse)]

Get freaking homework, dude. It's unbelievable. Yeah, it would be extremely interesting. Yeah, I mean, if I had a bet, I would say most people are against it.

[Jack Murphy]

I, I think, I think, yeah, probably one third in support and two thirds against. That would be my.

[D (Host of Eyes on Geopolitics / Teamhouse)]

Yeah, I think it reflects the country, frankly, like, I really do. Because, I mean, you talked about it last week, Mark, like, you know, the vet pro industrial complex. You see them more and more like they're not down with what's going on.

[Jack Murphy]

I was at an event recently, you know, a Special Forces event, and met up with a guy who I know is a big time Trump supporter, very nice guy. But it was interesting that he had apparently, you know, fallen out of love with Trump over this Iran war. He was not pleased at all. So, I mean, that's just a little, a little anecdote.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

I was with, you know, I was with a family member last night. Big, big Trump guy, big MAGA guy. Not happy about this. I mean, I was really surprised. It's not. There's no rally around the flag piece of it. So, you know, we'll see. But that'd be cool if we could find out. I mean, out of the.

[D (Host of Eyes on Geopolitics / Teamhouse)]

I'm trying to figure out how to do it. Maybe on our YouTube page or like that we could set up a room poll. Yeah, yeah. Anything else, Jack? What else you tracking before we take off?

[Jack Murphy]

Yeah, I, I said I can't really get too much into it. Working on a couple pieces for the high side that hopefully will be out in the near future.

[D (Host of Eyes on Geopolitics / Teamhouse)]

Cool. I want everyone to go check out the high side. That link is in the description. That's Jack's news outlet with Sean Naylor, who Army Times reporter wrote the actual book on jsoc. JSOC was freaking out when it was released, I've heard. And now it's like required reading. Really gives you like a real look at what J Sock's about, how it's structured and stuff like that. So an incredible book. So that's the high sides. The link is in the description. So grab it there. Mark P. Of course all the links are down there as well. All the boys that were on, they had all jump off because they had other media obligations and they big timed us. It's fine. We're never forget. We'll never forget but fine. Check their. Check their links out in the description down below. Nick just had the Whitefish Security Summit in Whitefish, Montana. So next year I think the eyes on and Team House boys are going to be there. So it's going to be exciting.

[Jack Murphy]

They. They had a lot of folks up there. Daryl Blocker is Berry bunch of Team House guests were. Were up there for that.

[D (Host of Eyes on Geopolitics / Teamhouse)]

Yeah, yeah, it's from all things that I've heard, it sounded like a great event. So if you guys are around the area, take a look. That link is in. Everything you need to know, guys. If you want to find these guys, the links are down in the description and the best place you can go to support the show is patreon.com the teamhouse. You get both Teamhouse episodes and Izon episodes ad free and early. You can actually watch the Team House episodes live as we shoot them and you support the show. So as always, guys, most likely I wouldn't be shocked if like I had some of the guys at some point this week doing something because I'm sure something. Something chaotic's gonna happen at some point that we should talk about. So thanks again, guys.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

This book, by the way, after your.

[Jack Murphy]

Oh man, that's a. That's a. An amazing book. Yeah, we had him on the show. Chris Cox. Yeah, that's a.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

You guys crazy episode you ever had. So I was like, madman. I want to read the book first and then I'll. Then I'll listen to the show. Yeah, yeah.

[Jack Murphy]

Let me know what you think.

[D (Host of Eyes on Geopolitics / Teamhouse)]

Thanks, guys.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

All right, guys. All right, take care.

[Jack Murphy]

Hey guys, I want to take a moment to tell you about the Team House podcast newsletter. If you go and subscribe, it's totally free. And what it will do is aggregate all of our data, all of our content that we put out, the things that are on the team house on our Geopolitics podcast, Eyes on Things that I write journalistically with Sean Naylor. On the high side, anything else that we have going on books, we recommend upcoming guests that we have coming on the show and also, you know, filtering in some fun stuff in there as well if you'll go and check it out. We send it out just once a week. We don't want to spam you guys. It's just a kind of roll up of all of our content on a weekly basis. You can find our newsletter@teamhousepodcast kit.com join again the website for that is team

[Martha (Kohler Cast Iron Ambassador)]

When Kohler, the global design leader in luxurious kitchen and bath products, came to me and said, martha, we need an ambassador for our timeless, elegant, durable cast iron products. I said, I'm in. Now let me see the factory. Weeks later, I was suited up in coveralls and work boots, walking through their Kohler Wisconsin cast iron foundry. I stood next to the molten iron furnace, saw the hand applying enamel, and touched the gorgeous finished products waiting to be sent out into the world. Since 1883, Kohler cast iron products have been forged and finished by the incredible craftspeople right in Kohler, Wisconsin. I'll tell you, I gained a newfound respect and appreciation for Kohler's cast iron craftsmanship. So now I'm lending my discerning staff of approval to my most beloved Kohler cast iron products for their durability, beauty and timelessness. Shop my Kohler Cast Iron favorites curated on Kohler.com bring the warmth, character and enduring style of these timeless products into your kitchens and bathrooms. As the Kohler Cast Iron Ambassador, I say long live Cast Iron.

[Chelsea Handler]

This is Chelsea Handler from Dear Chelsea after the Big Game. Like most people, I kept thinking about the commercials, and there was one that stayed with me. It was from the Blue Square Alliance Against Hate, and it wasn't loud or flashy. It showed a Jewish kid being targeted at school and another student who chose not to ignore it. As someone who was Jewish, that moment felt very real to me. Not dramatic, just familiar. And what struck me was how clearly it showed that hate doesn't always announce itself, but the impact is still huge. If you saw the Blue Square spot during the Big Game, it's worth thinking about. And if you want to show support, sharing the Blue Square is one small way to do that.

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[Jack Murphy]

Spin Quest is a free to play social casino void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details. Teamhousepodcast.kit.com join so we hope to see you there. The link will be down in the

[Martha (Kohler Cast Iron Ambassador)]

description When Kohler, the global design leader in luxurious kitchen and bath products, came to me and said, martha, we need an ambassador for our timeless, elegant, durable cast iron products. I said, I'm in now. Let me see the factory. Weeks later, I was suited up in coveralls and work boots, walking through their Kohler, Wisconsin cast iron foundry. I stood next to the molten iron furnace, saw the hand applying enamel, and touched the gorgeous finished products waiting to be sent out into the world. Since 1883, Kohler cast iron products have been forged and finished by the incredible craftspeople right in Kohler, Wisconsin. I'll tell you, I gained a newfound respect and appreciation for for Kohler's cast iron craftsmanship. So now I'm lending my discerning staff of approval to my most beloved Kohler cast iron products for their durability, beauty and timelessness. Shop my Kohler Cast Iron favorites curated on Kohler.com bring the warmth, character and enduring style of these timeless products into your kitchens and bathrooms. As the Kohler Cast Iron Ambassador, I say long live Cast Iron.

[Chelsea Handler]

This is Chelsea Handler from Dear Chelsea. After the Big Game. Like most people, I kept thinking about the commercials and there was one that stayed with me. It was from the Blue Square Alliance Against Hate. And it wasn't loud or flashy. It showed a Jewish kid being targeted at school and another student who chose not to ignore it. As someone who was Jewish, that moment felt very real to me. Not dramatic, just familiar. And what struck me was how clearly it showed that hate doesn't always announce itself, but the impact is still huge. If you saw the Blue Square spot during the Big Game, it's worth thinking about. And if you want to show support, sharing the Blue Square is one small way to do that.

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[Jack Murphy]

p I n q U-E-T.com SpinQuest is a free to play social casino void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details.

[Martha (Kohler Cast Iron Ambassador)]

When Kohler, the global design leader in luxurious kitchen and bath products, came to me and said, martha, we need an ambassador for our timeless, elegant, durable cast iron products. I said, I'm in now. Let me see the factory. Weeks later, I was suited up in coveralls and work boots, walking through their Kohler, Wisconsin cast iron foundry. I stood next to the molten iron furnace, saw the hand applying enamel and touched the gorgeous finished products waiting to be sent out into the world. Since 1883, Kohler cast iron products have been forged and finished by the incredible craftspeople right in Kohler, Wisconsin. I'll tell you, I gained a newfound respect and appreciation for for Kohler's cast iron craftsmanship. So now I'm lending my discerning staff of approval to my most beloved Kohler cast iron products for their durability, beauty and timelessness. Shop my Kohler Cast Iron favorites curated on Kohler.com bring the warmth, character and enduring style of these timeless products into your kitchens and bathrooms. As the Kohler Cast Iron Ambassador, I say, long live Cast Iron.

[Chelsea Handler]

This is Chelsea Handler from Dear Chelsea. After the Big Game like most people, I kept thinking about the commercials, and there was one that stayed with me. It was from the Blue Square Alliance Against Hate. And it wasn't loud or flashy. It showed a Jewish kid being targeted at school and another student who chose not to ignore it. As someone who was Jewish, that moment felt very real to me. Not dramatic, just familiar. And what struck me was how clearly it showed that hate doesn't always announce itself, but the impact is still huge. If you saw the Blue Square spot during the Big Game, it's worth thinking about. And if you want to show support, sharing the Blue Square is one small way to do that.

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[Jack Murphy]

Spinquest is a free to play social casino void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more detail.

[Martha (Kohler Cast Iron Ambassador)]

When Kohler, the global design leader in luxurious kitchen and bath products came to me and said, martha, we need an ambassador for our timeless, elegant, durable cast iron products. I said, I'm in. Now let me see the factory. Weeks later, I was suited up in coveralls and work boots, walking through their Kohler, Wisconsin cast iron foundry. I stood next to the molten iron furnace, saw the hand applying enamel, and touched the gorgeous finished products waiting to be sent out into the world. Since 1883, Kohler cast iron products have been forged and finished by the incredible craftspeople right in Kohler, Wisconsin. I'll tell you, I gained a newfound respect and appreciation for Kohler's cast iron craftsmanship. So now I'm lending my discerning stamp of approval to my most beloved Kohler cast iron products for their durability, beauty and timelessness. Shop my Kohler Cast Iron favorites curated on Kohler.com bring the warmth, character and enduring style of these timeless products into your kitchens and bathrooms. As the Kohler Cast Iron Ambassador, I say, long live cast iron.

[Chelsea Handler]

This is Chelsea Handler from Dear Chelsea. After the Big Game, like most people, I kept thinking about the commercials, and there was one that stayed with me. It was from the Blue Square Alliance Against Hate. And it wasn't loud or flashy. It showed a Jewish kid being targeted at school and another student who chose not to ignore it. As someone who was Jewish, that moment felt very real to me. Not dramatic, just familiar. And what struck me was how clearly it showed that hate doesn't always announce itself, but the impact is still huge. If you saw the Blue Square spot during the big game, it's worth thinking about. And if you want to show support, sharing the Blue Square is one small way to do that.

[Spinquest Advertiser]

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[Jack Murphy]

to play social casino void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more detail.

[Martha (Kohler Cast Iron Ambassador)]

When Kohler, the global design leader in luxurious kitchen and bath products, came to me and said, martha, we need an ambassador for our timeless, elegant, durable cast iron products. I said, I'm in now. Let me see the factory. Weeks later, I was suited up in coveralls and work boots, walking through their Kohler, Wisconsin cast iron foundry. I stood next to the molten iron furnace, saw the hand applying enamel and touched the gorgeous finished products waiting to be sent out into the world. Since 1883, Kohler cast iron products have been forged and finished by the incredible craftspeople right in Kohler, Wisconsin. I'll tell you, I gained a newfound respect and appreciation for for Kohler's cast iron craftsmanship. So now I'm lending my discerning staff of approval to my most beloved Kohler cast iron products for their durability, beauty and timelessness. Shop my Kohler Cast Iron favorites curated on Kohler.com bring the warmth, character and enduring style of these timeless products into your kitchens and bathrooms. As the Kohler Cast Iron Ambassador, I say, long live Cast Iron.

[Chelsea Handler]

This is Chelsea Handler from Dear Chelsea. After the Big Game, like most people, I kept thinking about the commercials. And there was one that stayed with me. It was from the Blue Square Alliance Against Hate. And it wasn't loud or flashy. It showed a Jewish kid being targeted at school and another student who chose not to ignore it. As someone who was Jewish, that moment felt very real to me. Not dramatic, just familiar. And what struck me was how clearly it showed that hate doesn't always announce itself, but the impact is still huge. If you saw the Blue Square spot during the big game, it's worth thinking about. And if you want to show support, sharing the Blue Square is one small way to do that.

[Spinquest Advertiser]

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[Jack Murphy]

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[Martha (Kohler Cast Iron Ambassador)]

When Kohler, the global design leader in luxurious kitchen and bath products, came to me and said, martha, we need an ambassador for our timeless, elegant, durable cast iron products. I said, I'm in. Now let me see the factory. Weeks later, I was suited up in coveralls and work boots, walking through their Kohler Wisconsin cast iron foundry. I stood next to the molten iron furnace, saw the hand applying enamel, and touched the gorgeous finished products waiting to be sent out into the world. Since 1883, Kohler cast iron products have been forged and finished by the incredible craftspeople right in Kohler, Wisconsin. I'll tell you, I gained a newfound respect and appreciation for Kohler's cast iron craftsmanship. So now I'm lending my discerning staff of approval to my most beloved Kohler Cast Iron products for their durability, beauty and timelessness. Shop my Kohler Cast Iron favorites curated on Kohler.com bring the warmth, character and enduring style of these timeless products into your kitchens and bathrooms. As the Kohler Cast Iron Ambassador, I say, long live Cast Iron.

[Chelsea Handler]

This is Chelsea Handler from Dear Chelsea. After the Big Game like most people, I kept thinking about the commercials, and there was one that stayed with me. It was from the Blue Square Alliance Against Hate, and it wasn't loud or flashy. It showed a Jewish kid being targeted at school and another student who chose not to ignore it. As someone who was Jewish, that moment felt very real to me. Not dramatic, just familiar. And what struck me was how clearly it showed that hate doesn't always announce itself, but the impact is still huge. If you saw the Blue Square spot during the Big Game, it's worth thinking about. And if you want to show support, sharing the Blue Square is one small way to do that.

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[Jack Murphy]

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[Martha (Kohler Cast Iron Ambassador)]

When Kohler, the global design leader in luxurious kitchen and bath products, came to me and said, martha, we need an ambassador for our timeless, elegant, durable cast iron products. I said, I'm in now. Let me see the factory. Weeks later, I was suited up in coveralls and work boots, walking through their Kohler, Wisconsin cast iron foundry. I stood next to the molten iron furnace, saw the hand applying enamel, and touched the gorgeous finished products waiting to be sent out into the world. Since 1883, Kohler cast iron products have been forged and finished by the incredible craftspeople right in Kohler, Wisconsin. I'll tell you, I gained a newfound respect and appreciation for Kohler's cast iron craftsmanship. So now I'm lending my discerning staff of approval to my most beloved Kohler cast iron products for their durability, beauty and timelessness. Shop my Kohler Cast Iron favorites curated on Kohler.com bring the warmth, character and enduring style of these timeless products into your kitchens and bathrooms as the Kohler Cast Iron Ambassador, I say, long live Cast Iron.

[Chelsea Handler]

This is Chelsea Handler from Dear Chelsea. After the Big Game. Like most people, I kept thinking about the commercials, and there was one that stayed with me. It was from the Blue Square Alliance Against Hate. And it wasn't loud or flashy. It showed a Jewish kid being targeted at school and another student who chose not to ignore it. As someone who was Jewish, that moment felt very real to me. Not dramatic, just familiar. And what struck me was how clearly it showed that hate doesn't always announce itself, but the impact is still huge. If you saw the blue square spot during the big game, it's worth thinking about. And if you want to show support, sharing the blue square is one small way to do that.

[Jack Murphy]

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[Jack Murphy]

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[Martha (Kohler Cast Iron Ambassador)]

When Kohler, the global design leader in luxurious kitchen and bath products, came to me and said, martha, we need an ambassador for our timeless, elegant, durable cast iron products. I said, I'm in now. Let me see the factory. Weeks later, I was suited up in coveralls and work boots, walking through their Kohler Wisconsin cast iron foundry. I stood next to the molten iron furnace, saw the hand applying enamel, and touched the gorgeous finished products waiting to be sent out into the world. Since 1883, Kohler cast iron products have been forged and finished by the incredible craftspeople right in Kohler, Wisconsin. I'll tell you, I gained a newfound respect and appreciation for Kohler's cast iron craftsmanship. So now I'm lending my discerning staff of approval to my most beloved Kohler cast iron products for their durability, beauty and timelessness. Shop my Kohler Cast Iron favorites curated on Kohler.com bring the warmth, character and enduring style of these timeless products into your kitchens and bathrooms. As the Kohler Cast Iron ambassador, I say, long live Cast iron.

[Chelsea Handler]

This is Chelsea Handler from Dear Chelsea after the Big Game. Like most people, I kept thinking about the commercials, and there was one that stayed with me. It was from the Blue Square Alliance Against Hate. And it wasn't loud or flashy, it showed a Jewish kid being targeted at school and another student who chose not to ignore it. As someone who was Jewish, that moment felt very real to me. Not dramatic, just familiar. And what struck me was how clearly it showed that hate doesn't always announce itself, but the impact is still huge. If you saw the blue square spot during the big game, it's worth thinking about. And if you want to show support, sharing the blue square is one small way to do that.

[Jack Murphy]

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[Andy Milburn]

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[Jack Murphy]

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[Mark Polymeropoulos]

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[Jack Murphy]

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[Chelsea Handler]

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[Andy Milburn]

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[Chelsea Handler]

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[Spinquest Advertiser]

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[Jack Murphy]

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[Spinquest Advertiser]

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