The China Summit, & the Terrible New CT Strategy | EYES ON GEOPOLITICS

Summary

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Episode Summary: The New Counter Terrorism Strategy is Laughable | EYES ON GEOPOLITICS

The Team House: Eyes On Geopolitics | May 19, 2026
Hosts: Sean Hackett (likely), Mark Polymeropoulos, Andy (possible co-host)

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Overview

This episode centers on critical analysis of the new US counterterrorism (CT) strategy released by the Trump administration, side by side with dynamic discussion of recent geopolitical events: particularly the China summit, the ongoing Iran war, inflation, and related global security issues. The hosts—seasoned national security professionals—scrutinize the lack of coherence and overt politicization in the new CT strategy, express skepticism about current US strategic posture, and highlight the broader costs and confusions embroiling American foreign policy.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. China Summit: Much Ado About Nothing

[01:27–08:11]

• The hosts express disappointment at the recent China summit, noting the lack of concrete outcomes and the persistent tension surrounding Taiwan and trade issues.
  • “There was a lot of like, ‘yeah, we’ll agree to talk about this’… but nothing concrete came out of it.” (Host, 02:08)
• President Trump’s interactions with Chinese leadership are seen as bizarrely deferential:
  • “Whenever he goes and meets a dictator, he, like, falls in love with him… he becomes like their number one palace.” (Host, 01:55)
• The ambiguity surrounding support to Taiwan deeply unsettles US allies:
  • “Trump’s interview with Sean Hannity… he said, yeah, you know, I’m not sure about this … billions of weapon package to Taiwan. I’ll think about it—which goes against decades of US policy.” (Mark Polymeropoulos, 07:34)
• Economic undercurrents: The Strait of Hormuz disruptions continue to push up gas prices and inflation globally.

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2. Iran Conflict: Stalemate and Strategic Drift

[08:37–16:30, 21:04–29:03]

• Military Analysis:

  • Both former and current officials quoted as saying the use of force will not bring about Iranian capitulation unless there’s a full-scale invasion (deemed impossible).
    • “There’s really nothing militarily we can do now to cause the Iranians to capitulate… Save 100,000, 200,000 US ground forces and a full on invasion of Iran, which is never going to happen.” (Mark Polymeropoulos, 09:00)

• Political Impasse:

  • Both sides (US and Iran) have “maximalist” positions, making compromise impossible under present leadership.

• Ripple Effects:

  • Regional powers (UAE, Saudi Arabia, others) are quietly maneuvering; rumors of backchannel oil deals, drone attacks, and shifting alliances abound.

• Strategic Flaws Exposed:

  • US actions, say the hosts, lacked advance planning or meaningful preparation.
  • “They seem to have concocted this on a napkin in the Oval Office.” (Mark Polymeropoulos, 21:46)

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3. The New Counterterrorism Strategy: Incoherent and Hyper-Politicized

[31:08–41:40]

• Process Breakdown:
  • The CS strategy was reportedly written almost solely by Sebastian Gorka, with next to no interagency input—a sharp departure from tradition.
    • "He wrote this on his own. Ordinarily, the NSC document like this would be part of an interagency process." (Mark Polymeropoulos, 32:41)
• Content Critique:
  • Emphasis on combating narco-traffickers as primary CT threats is seen as a categorical misclassification, muddying law enforcement and counterterror.
  • The document bizarrely focuses on “Antifa” and “transgender ideology” as CT targets, omitting almost all reference to far-right terrorism.
    • “This is preposterous... No CIA officer is going to ever approach foreign leaders on service on this.” (Mark Polymeropoulos, 35:38)
    • “Since 2001, 85% of terrorism… domestically in the US has been carried out by the right… Not even mentioning it is insane because the data is very clear.” (Mark Polymeropoulos, 35:49)
• Global Ridicule:
  • Hosts imagine the US being “laughed out of the room” by intelligence allies if pressing CT issues like “transgender ideology” and Antifa at high-level meetings.
  • “Just write a normal document… Why can’t they do that?” (Co-host, 42:06)
• Resource Danger:
  • Policies and funding priorities flow from such documents: “Resources are going to emanate from this document.” (Mark Polymeropoulos, 38:19)
• Real-world Neglect:
  • Recent US/ally operations against ISIS and Kata’ib Hezbollah are noted, but the document ignores the clear likelihood that Iran conflict will trigger new terrorism.

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4. Intelligence, Operations & US National Security Culture

[27:01–32:00, 41:40–57:51]

• On Iran Intelligence Penetration:
  • The guests doubt the US has sufficient human intelligence (“HUMINT”) inside Iran since numerous networks were compromised in the early 2010s.
• “Iran is a hard target… I don't know the quality of intelligence we have.” (Mark Polymeropoulos, 27:03)
• “We’re at a disadvantage diplomatically… while we can put someone on the X for a kinetic strike, that’s recruiting the janitor, not plans and intentions.” (Mark Polymeropoulos, 29:51)
• On US/Israeli Strategy:
  • After 10/7, Israel’s security establishment remains traumatized and more aggressive, but questions of long-term effectiveness persist.
  • “There is no more tolerance for any kind of risk… all these promises that Netanyahu made about keeping us safer, I’m not so sure now.” (Mark Polymeropoulos, 43:09)
• The US is likened to the late Roman Empire: “America's committing super superpower suicide.” (Mark Polymeropoulos, 06:09)
• On Soft Power:
  • Both hosts strongly advocate for returning to “whole of government” strategies, including USAID and diplomacy, not just kinetic operations.
    • General Mattis paraphrase: “If we don’t have diplomacy, if we don’t have soft power, I got to buy more ammunition.” (Mark Polymeropoulos, 37:14)

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5. Media, Public Sentiment & Leadership Accountability

[11:15–19:56; 40:48–50:06]

• Domestic Politics Versus Foreign Policy Reality:
  • American public is mostly disengaged from foreign policy, prioritizing economic concerns.
    • “No, American people don't give a shit about foreign policy… They don't vote on it.” (Mark Polymeropoulos, 17:03)
  • Disconnect noted between stock market performance (juiced by AI hype) and real-world hardship.
• On Leadership and Responsibility:
  • “You can have a president who’s kind of out there a bit and an outlier, and that’s Trump. But there’s no James Mattis around. There’s no adults in actually executing political and military strategy.” (Mark Polymeropoulos, 20:46)
  • The revolving door of officials and Fox News commentators banging the war drums is met with exasperation (“sign your kids up for it!” (16:00)).
• On Israeli Media Lawsuits & Human Rights Claims:
  • Hosts ridicule Israeli attempts to sue the New York Times over reporting on prison abuses.
  • “We have First Amendment rights here. It's an opinion piece… The smartest thing would have been say: that's an opinion piece. Thanks a lot.” (Mark Polymeropoulos & Co-host, 47:23)

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6. Reflecting on the Post-9/11 Era: Acknowledging Excesses

[50:18–57:14]

• Both hosts and guest reflect candidly on the excesses of the US War on Terror, including torture, prisoner abuses, and strategic errors.
  • “Members of Congress from the Democratic Party… were basically wanting us to kill everyone.” (Mark Polymeropoulos, 51:42)
  • “You have to have the maturity later on to say, yeah, I’m not defending everything we did… probably shouldn’t have done that stuff.” (Mark Polymeropoulos, 52:10)
• There is a clear implication that Israel will—over time—reach similar reckonings regarding the period after October 7.
• Deep personal and professional grappling with the moral weight of civilian deaths, as well as the long tail of traumatic wars.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “America’s committing super superpower suicide.” — Mark Polymeropoulos, [06:09]
• “There’s a guy on Twitter… Actual One Murph. It’s all positive… Just, it’s about, you know, just taking care of yourself and forgiveness.” — Co-host, [04:38]
• “I don't know if we, or others, or perhaps, Dee, you can comment on this—when I hear another Pentagon briefing, I'm not even sure what to believe anymore.” — Mark Polymeropoulos, [11:53]
• “This is preposterous... No CIA officer is going to ever approach foreign leaders on service on this [transgender, Antifa CT focus].” — Mark Polymeropoulos, [35:38]
• “Resources are going to emanate from this document.” — Mark Polymeropoulos, [38:19]
• “Just write a normal document… Why can’t they do that?” — Co-host, [42:06]
• “We care about Civcast much more than… the IDF” — Mark Polymeropoulos, [56:10]
• "You have to have the maturity later on to say, yeah, I'm not defending everything we did. You have to say, yeah, we probably shouldn't have done that stuff. This is the reason why we did." — Mark Polymeropoulos, [52:10]

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Segment Timestamps

• China Summit & Overview: [01:19–08:11]
• Iran War Situation: [08:37–16:30], [21:04–32:00]
• CT Strategy Deep Dive: [31:08–41:40]
• US Intelligence Ops Discussion: [27:01–32:00]
• US & Israeli Policy Reflection: [41:40–56:39]
• Morality & Reckoning of Warfare: [50:18–57:14]

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Tone & Language

• The discussion is frank, a blend of lament and gallows humor, with sharp critique of both left and right. There is a reinforcing emphasis on pragmatism, foresight, and acknowledgment of policy failures—while never veering into conspiracy or partisan flame wars. Several moments of self-aware reflection on the national security establishment’s limits, failures, and the importance of humility.

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Conclusion

A must-listen for those looking to understand why today’s US counterterrorism and foreign policy posture is so volatile and, at times, self-defeating. The hosts deliver biting, informed commentary that reflects not just frustration but a deep desire to see American strategy rise above politicized absurdity. For listeners seeking insider perspective on the intersection of intelligence, geopolitics, and real-world outcomes, this episode is a bracing—and often darkly funny—wake-up call.

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Transcript

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[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Hey, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Eyes on Geopolitics. I'm joined today with Mark Polymeropoulos. Two Greeks for the price of one.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

Here we go.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

No Marines, thank God. Finally. No, everyone's had a. Everyone had a pretty eventful weekend, so we weren't able to record yesterday, so we grabbed one. We needed to get something out because it seems like it's been a bit of a wild news week. First and foremost, there's a ton of stuff we're going to talk about. First thing is a China summit. As far as all the reporting goes, like, seems like nothing really came of it, frankly. The Iran war was looming the whole time over it. Obviously China was still, you know, digging their heels in when it comes to Taiwan. President Trump's statements really, like, his, like, interviews and stuff like that with the press were not, you know, he was basically. I don't know, it sounded like he was spinning a little bit for China, which is kind of crazy. He has this weird thing where he. Whenever he goes and meets a dictator, he, like, falls in love with him and, like, he becomes like their number one palace. So it was just an interesting thing. The news was covering a floor, like, you know, minutes a minute and, like, nothing happened, more or less. Like there was a lot of, like, yeah, we'll agree to talk about this. We'll agree to maybe talk about soybeans and Boeing, like in jets and stuff like that, AI chips or whatever, but nothing concrete came out of it. Also, we're looking at, you know, the Iran war still going on, straight up. Hormuz is essentially still blocked. Inflation's creeping up here in America slowly but surely. Gas is obviously a lot or higher in Europe. It's, like, crazy. I've heard. And so there's word that the Iranians are thinking that, like, it's going to start up in the next 48 hours. BB had a phone call with Trump, I think, over the weekend to discuss next steps and stuff like that. So, you know, we're kind of in a waiting pattern. We're waiting to see. I was telling my friend of mine, too, I was like, there's no way that we're gonna start bombing Iran while we're in China, while Trump's in China with, like 50 CEOs and like, basically the whole cabinet. So we're back here. We're waiting and seeing. And also, I wanted to get your take on the, the new counterterrorism strategy, you know, because you worked in it for a couple decades, so. And how insane it reads and looks. But first, what are your thoughts on China?

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

Well, okay, so we'll get to. We'll get these things.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

I definitely. The CT strategy is something right up my alley. We'll talk about China in a second.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

But I like that we have two

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Greeks on right now. You're right.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

And this is actually Greek Day, because earlier today, it's actually cool I mentioned this. I'm in it. So let me just say I'm in

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

a new state of mind now.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

I'm going to be positive.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

There's too much negativity.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

There's too much.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

I post on X nonstop. It's always negative, not good, not healthy for me. I'm in my new health kick. And so today, it was actually a cool event. Good buddy of mine, he's on CNN all the time. Alex Plitzis, another Greek, awesome, awesome friend, former PSYOPS guy for, for DOD, then worked on the civilian side in DOD.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

So we went and we talked to 150 college interns down in D.C. at the Washington Center. It was so cool about passing the torch to the next generation. All positivity. The kids were all fired up.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

I got fired up.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

I have a million emails, you know,

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

after that in terms of just mentoring folks.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

And so there's got to be some

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

good in the world.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

There's a, there's a guy. I don't even know who this guy is. Maybe you guys, maybe you and Jack know on Twitter. He's actual one, Murph.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

I was just looking him up.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

I think he's a former seal. But it's all this motivational stuff, okay? And I'm, you know, and usually I don't gotta get hooked into that, but it's all positive. Just, it's about, you know, just taking care of yourself and forgiveness.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

But it's actual one, Murph.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

It's really good.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

And anyway, so it's my new mood

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

now, so I'm gonna be positive. I'm gonna look critical. I'll be, I'll give constructive criticism to

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

the Trump administration and to.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Are you starting this today?

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

This is the first time I said last night to my wife, I said, I can't. I' Going down the dark road of negativity.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

It's not healthy, not good for me,

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

not good for everybody. Everyone thinks I, you know, I, I, I'm a, I have total Trump derangement syndrome, which I do.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

But, but I have to kind of modulate that into saying now instead of just criticizing, saying, hey, what should we be doing?

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

So that's, I'm going to turn over a new leaf here.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

All right? So, so, so d. So anyways, Greeks

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

are taking over the world today.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

I get Greek event number one earlier today.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Now I got my Greek event number two. The Marines can go kind of, you know, they're doing their, like, family celebr, which is great. And they'll tell you about it. They'll tell us all about it next week. Really cool stuff happening to some of our fellow colleagues.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Listen, I hope you do keep a positive attitude. I mean, it's not great for content, really, but, like, it's better for your mental health.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

So.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

Yeah, you know, and the funny thing is, I was just on, so I got to be honest, I was just on a signal chat with some buddies of mine, former agency, former DoD, and

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

I was talking to them that the, that we're witnessing the fall. This is like the Roman Empire. America's committing super superpower suicide.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

So I'm not taking my own advice.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Yeah, I mean, you're not wrong either. That's the sad part.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

So the China Summit. Interesting. And I don't know about some of

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

our fellow colleagues, whether it's Mick or

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

Jonathan, but, like, my TV appearances went

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

to zero last week, so what does that tell you, really? That means nothing happened in the China Summit.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

A lot of pomp you know, we

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

watched the Big Ballroom. There was the really. Actually, I thought it was funny again

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

in my newfound positivity, Elon Musk's faces. He was making while he was taking selfies with Ketamine face. Yeah, yeah, the ketamine face. So just, you know, but nothing really substantive happened other than. And you nailed it. That any kind of resumption of military

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

hostilities would not occur, would never occur, was never going to occur while everybody was in Beijing. And so I think you got that right.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

But in terms of, you know, the pomp and circumstance. Sure. I think the highlights only were that the Chinese, as they usually do, agree to some type of nebulous trade deals.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

We don't know the details. There's.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

There's supposed to be hundreds of Boeing planes. There might be 200 chip stuff. Like nothing really is substantive. If it was, we would have heard about it. And then the big thing was, frankly, President Trump's interview with Sean Hannity on Fox in which he said, yeah, you know, I'm not sure about this giant,

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

you know, billion dollar weapon, billions of

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

dollars of weapons package to Taiwan.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

I'll think about it.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

Which. And, and he discussed it with the Chinese, which goes against decades of US Policy.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Yeah.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

That weapons deals to Taiwan were not to be discussed with the Chinese.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

And so now, now the Taiwanese, I'm sure, are freaking out.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Guess who is going to China right now.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Jared Woff. Jared. I thought, I thought Jared Woff. I called him by the same one name.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

It's just. I know, I got that.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

And so, so ultimately, it was a summit of, of not a lot of substance.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

And now our allies in the Pacific are questioning us.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Sure.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

And so, you know, and what. But honestly. And again, this is certainly not about me at all, but in terms of

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

things which put me in the media, I was not last week. I'm not.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

That's interesting.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

But not, not a peep from Ms. Now.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

And of course, I got on this morning because we're talking about the possibility of resuming the war with Iran.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

So just switching to that.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

It's fascinating. And I just got a whole bunch of texts from some other reporters.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

Trump is now threatening all sorts of

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Armageddon again, but because the Iranians are not certainly adhering to any of our demands.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

But nobody's like, no one's panicking this time. No one's saying. Because no one. Two things. One is, no one believes Trump anymore. You don't know if he's going to

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

carry, throwing these threats.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

And number two is. And there's been A lot of really

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

good military analysis done by this, by some former Israeli military officials who are

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

critical of the campaign, saying that actually there's really nothing militarily we can do now to cause the Iranians to capitulate to what we need them to do. Save 100,000, 200,000 US ground forces and a full on invasion of Iran, which is never going to happen. Additional strikes, what does that actually do? The Iranians think they can weather it. They think they can outlast Trump. And so we're kind of in this box right now and frankly the only thing and might be a good thing is that we're going to have to not cave, but we're going to have to compromise to some of the Iranian demands and that's going to be a

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

political problem for Trump and he doesn't

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

want to do that. So we're stuck.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

So I don't know where this goes, frankly. By the way.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Yeah, it was interesting to see like both sides, I think drop site, I mean, drop site is, you know, Ryan Grim and Jeremy Scahill. So take it for what it's worth. They do good work. But, yeah, yeah, but they, I mean they get, they're not pro Israel and they, they are a little bit too much of like a might. They're like the Axios for the fars, like for Iranians to be honest. But you know, they posted something about the demands from both sides and it sounds like both sides are totally maximalist.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

Yeah, right, exactly.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

And it's like we're even farther apart than we've ever been.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

Yeah.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

You know, right, so, so, yeah, that,

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

and that's not the way anything ever gets settled. Now ordinarily, if we had kind of

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

a, you know, a less kind of bombastic leader who has not put himself

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

in a box, you would say, okay,

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

we're going to have to compromise.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

I think the American people couldn't give

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

a rat's ass if we compromised.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

But politically, Trump has boxed himself in. So when he says now, you know, we're talking that the details of this, and I'm not a nuclear expert, have to do with how much highly enriched uranium, how much, when do they have to, when do we, when was the

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

moratorium on enrichment end?

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

And you know, we said 20 years. The Iranians said 10, five, whatever. There is a time period in there in which it would be okay. But Trump today said, Nope, 20 years or nothing. And so, you know, he's, I don't know where this goes because, you know,

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

again, there's have to be compromise on both sides. And I don't see that happening yet.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

And, and kind of the last point

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

on the Iran thing, because we could

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

talk about it forever, but I don't

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

even know if there's anything. All that new is,

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

is just the notion of once again, that, that militarily

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

we can have tactical successes, but strategically

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

we have not been able to plan

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

or execute anything that is even remotely coherent.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

And on that note, and I've talked

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

about it before on the podcast, you know, and God bless the American, the men, men and women, the American military, the airmen, the sailors, everybody, the Marines,

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

everyone involved in this. But I don't know if I, or

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

others, and perhaps, Dee, you comment on this. You know, when I hear another Pentagon briefing, I'm not even sure what to

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

believe anymore because, and I will tell you this, and here's a huge point we talked, we've kind of hammered kind of the pro Israel, right, the freedom of defense, democracy folks, ever definitely pushing the war, pushing the administration's lines. Even Mark Dubowitz, who heads the whole organization there, and there's some good people there who actually are really smart on this. But he actually said the other day, well, because U.S. intelligence now says only

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

half of the, you know, the ballistic missile inventory has been degraded, we have to keep going. And I was like, well, hold on a second.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

The Pentagon said a couple days ago

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

that it was much more than that.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

So now even the most hawkish people

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

are saying, well, maybe those assessments are not correct.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

And so, you know, is this even, I guess, D, here's a question for you. Is this even under the constraints we know the United States has, you know, if we're not going for 200,000 ground

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

troops and full on regime change, you

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

know, can we win this? I think we lost it militarily.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

I don't know what the answer is on that.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Yeah, I mean, we probably need more than 200,000 troops. You know what I mean? It's a significant amount. Yeah, I think we strategically lost this the day we started bombing them when we had another negotiation set up for that Monday where supposedly on the table was, you know, digging up the uranium. Enriched uranium means sending it to another country. Like, we're not going to get that at this point, you know, So I think we're just going to go back to this holding pattern. It's like, it's like a weird deranged, like, mowing of the lawn, you know, that strategy everyone talks about, which is in my opinion too. But I digress. Like, it's like this weird deranged version of Iran.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

No, don't, don't digress because I think you're right. I mean, so when I talk to

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Israelis and you know, I'm far closer to them than I think you are, and that's okay. We have to have different opinions on

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

the show, but I think they're coming

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

to the realization that it's going to be a mowing the lawn strategy because, because, you know, things are not going to kind of be settled militarily like many people anticipated.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

So I, So in some ways, and maybe this is what happens is that

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

nothing happens straight to Hormuz stays like that. They get 2 million a boat.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

But if Trump, I mean, you know, the, the, in some fashion, the Iranians are going to. So maybe, but the Iranians are going to start cutting deals with other countries on the side and maybe the US has nothing to. Can do about it. And then it turns into a toll booth. Now that's not good for us. But again, I'm not so sure how we get out of this.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

And what about like the uae, Qataris and stuff like that, like sending their boats out with their oil. Iraqi, I'm sure, whoever, Kuwait start cutting deals.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

I mean, already the UAE and the

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Saudis are at odds over this.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

There was all sorts of rumors over

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

the weekend of some kind of. Yeah. That the cut some kind of deal.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

I saw that supposedly the Saudis bombed the uae. There's rumors of that too. Yeah, well, they got hit from drones, not from Iran, but from the west of them.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

I think it was not that it

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

was Iraqi Shia groups.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Okay.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

I would imagine. But, but ultimately, you know, it's, this is, this is a tough one again.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

And so, so going to the Mick Mulroy line, which I believe in. Hey, we want to win.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

You know, we're on Team America.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

I'm not just sure how we do

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

so right now, how we get out of this, we don't.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

And that's. And again, unfortunately. So there's two things. One is we can criticize the entry into this mess.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

That's fine.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

But again, if you were sitting at the National Security Council and if Dee

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

was in the administration, probably something that would never happen. And I say the same thing for

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

me, what kind of advice would you give? I actually, you know, that, that, that

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

would get us out of this. And aside from a compromise, I'm not.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

And which, which politically, I don't think

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Trump can go through. Lindsey Graham will have an aneurysm.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

Yeah, I don't know.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

He was on the Sunday shows Like going bananas again, like, you know, beating the drum. Graham.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

You know, you know, at some point, and I hate to do this, is you kind of say these folks, well, fucking sign up.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Go send your kids now.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

I don't think Lindsey has any kids,

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

but, but, you know, or just Lindsay go back into. I think he was a reservist at one point.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

But, you know, I mean, all these people who are beating comes to war,

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

fine, sign your kids up for it because I'm not sure where this goes right now. So.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

And, and, and frankly, you know, there's, there's, there's not that much more to,

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

to when I say, to say on this, you know, unless someone has some

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

kind of, you know, magic bullet.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

I mean, what was Mick saying? That that's what he. I think that was his thing. Or there's no, there's no, you know, magic wand to wave or whatever that makes this all okay. I, I'm just not quite sure how we get out of this now. And that's a, that's a tough one.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

And you know, and again, if you're

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

on the, on the politics side of it, you know, the American people clearly are not in favor of this and are not going to. I mean, you go fill up my truck and it costs over 100 bucks.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Yeah, it's gas.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

It's 450 in Virginia. I think it's probably like 8 bucks in California.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

It's like just over 6. Like 6:15, 6:20 in Cali on the West Coast.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

That's what American people care about. I mean, no, American people don't give

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

a shit about foreign policy.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

We love this podcast, Eyes on Geopolitics, but they don't. It's not actually let me change that. It's not that they don't care. They don't vote on it.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Yeah, they vote on their fifth level, fifth thing down.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

And so, and they vote in their pocketbook.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

And their pocketbook is not good.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

The pocketbook, by the way, is great. If you invest in the stock market.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Yeah, the stock market's at an all time high.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

My portfolio is crushing it.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

I'm as happy as can be. I'm gonna go out and buy another Jeep. Yeah, but, but that doesn't mean that 85% of Americans are feeling good about things, because they're not.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Yeah, it is interesting to see how the stock market's going off. And, you know, oil is higher, you know, especially in the, you know, in Southeast Asia. Those, those countries are getting smoked in terms of how much it costs for a barrel but like, the disconnect between the, the price of oil, what's happening in the straight of Hormuz, and the American stock market is something insane. I mean, it's all, it's all juiced up with AI money, essentially. And like the promise of AI money.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Yeah, yeah. So.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

Yeah. And so a lot of people might be getting rich in America, but not most Americans.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

And that's the bottom line on that. And so it's, you know, there's, there's a, you know, that line.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

I mean, again, the Trump administration, you can't criticize everything that they do.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

But, but, and I think often there are actions that the administration takes which, you know, for example, we'll talk about counterterrorism. There's a couple of counterterrorism operations that I think were really good, that, that occurred over the last 72 hours.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

The problem is Trump then goes on

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

a TV interview and says he doesn't really care that things are more expensive for Americans.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

I mean, it's a Marie Antoinette moment.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Her famous line, let them eat cake.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

Trump is like a walking campaign ad

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

sometimes for the Democrats when he doesn't have to be.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

It's very strange. All you have to say is, yes,

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

American people are hurting. I understand that.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Right. I mean, inflation's almost at 4%.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Yeah. And so, so that, and I think that probably is a lot of Republican members in that, in the House who are very nervous about their standing now.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

They're not nervous, they're crazy. Yeah. Because the numbers are on the wall and it may be even like the Senate might be in play as well, which is insane to see that.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

Just, you never know.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Listen, when you're promised getting out of wars and not being in forever wars, and then you go and spend probably 50 to 70 billion dollars in six weeks in Iran, 13 service members die. You know, service folks die, over a couple hundred injured, one of our equipment fucked up and, you know, bet, you know, probably things that I'll take years to bring back, like all those radars and stuff like that are different bases. Yeah. If I even, you know, make America great again, it's like, where is that? Because my, my eggs are fucking expensive.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

And my gas buddies.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

He's never been on the team house horizon. I don't think he would. But he's former Dev Group guy and his son's a SEAL too. And I remember, I haven't talked to him for a while, but I remember when I asked him the first time around, why'd you vote for Trump? And he said very clearly, he said, because I don't want my kid going into combat. And so it just is that kind of fundamental notion of America now embroiled in more conflict is something that, you know, it is kind of head scratching.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

But, you know, when I say, to Trump's credit, I think he's doing what he thinks is right.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

It might not be right, but ultimately, you know, he's, you know, when he says, hey, he's the first American president to tackle Iran in ways that others have, that is correct.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

I just wish, and I go back

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

to something that we've talked about a lot on the pod is that we

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

had people who knew what they were doing.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

You can have a president who's kind of out there a bit and an outlier, and that's Trump.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

But there's no James Mattis around.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

There's no, there's no adults in actually executing a political and military strategy that, where we could have come out on top. And absent that, this is not going to be a success.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Was there ever one man, I mean, like, IRGC is pretty fucking well entrenched in that country. I mean, is there an.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

The things I don't know about, I

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

don't know the kind of COVID action operations we were running beforehand? You know, certainly there are things we could do with our allies in the prepar before such a campaign that we probably didn't do.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

I mean, there's a lot of operational

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

prep of the environment that, that, you know, in order to kind of go after the Iranian regime. And I don't know if we did,

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

wouldn't that be good if there was like ground branch teams and SF teams in there already doing that or other,

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

you know, not, not, not even necessarily

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

inside, but just, you know, some type of COVID activity. And I don't know if we've done that or not.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

I just tend to think that we might not have.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Only because they seem to have kind of concocted this on a napkin in the Oval Office.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

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[Narrator (World War II Museum Podcast)]

It's World War II and American spies

are on a secret mission to stop Nazi Germany from building an atomic bomb.

[Bradley W. Hart]

I'm Bradley W. Hart, host of the

[Narrator (World War II Museum Podcast)]

National World War II Museum's podcast series

Secret World War II Spies and Special Ops.

The largest conflict in human history wasn't

just one on the battlefield.

It was also one in the shadows.

A new season is available now.

Find and follow Secret World War II

wherever you get your podcasts.

[Liberty Mutual Advertiser]

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[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Yeah, and it seems like just a lot of wishful thinking happening, man. And some CIA officer told me, like, the enemy of, like, everything is wishful thinking. There's something to that effect.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Like, it's not a strategy. I mean, there's. Yeah, there's all these kind of.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Yeah, right. And it's. It's. I don't know if there ever was a strategy unless you have 3, 400,000American troops ready to rock and, you know, get, you know, parachuted into Tehran.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

Yeah. And you know what, you know, with. With that not on the table as

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

well, by the way. And that's going to horrify people. Maybe if I say this, taking that

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

off the table means the Iranians are

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

not scared of us.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

It would have been far better to

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

have that on the table.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

But because Trump promised no more, you know, no more wars, he said that

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

very, you know, it was very clear. I mean, they kind of nuanced it a little bit. Said nothing's. They, you know, there are no other. No, there's no options that we wouldn't consider. But everybody knew that that was impossibility.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

It would have been better if the Iranians thought, holy crap, this crazy guy

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

might send half a million Americans there.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

Now, again, maybe it would be believable

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

with Trump because he's such a wild card like that. Oh, yeah. He would send a bunch, like, you know, hundreds of thousands of troops because that.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

The regime doesn't feel threatened.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

America's not interested in sending regular kids.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

Right, Right.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

So, like, me, too. And I love the military. I love the intelligence community. I think they have roles to play. I'm a fan. But, like, yeah, we can't do that again. Yeah, it was. It was a. A strategic blunder. I would say. Doing this is. Let me ask you this before we get into the CT shot, the new CT strategy, like, let's say you were in the CIA, you know, if you were on the Iran desk or running it. And yet Ayatollah got smoked, and, like, 40 of the top guys have gotten smoked. And now there's obviously, like, a vacuum and things are rearranging. Are you guys, like, pulling your hair out at CIA to try and figure out who's making the fucking decisions here.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

And like, yeah, of course. So the key thing on this now,

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Iran is a hard target. That's a great question, Dee. And something that I think I've raised

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

here before, I don't know the quality of intelligence we have on Iran, you go back to back in 2011, 2012,

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

and I will be very careful.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

This is, as reported in the press,

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

there were very significant compromises of CIA's agent networks.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

And so when I say Iran's a

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

hard target, it's obviously, we don't have a diplomatic presence there. The CIA officers are not on the ground, State Department's not on the ground, US Military not on the ground. And so, you know, and so, you

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

know, do we have clandestine collection or even signals intelligence, too that tells us the plans and intentions of Iran's leaders?

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

And I don't know the answer to that. And, you know, without boots on the ground, without that kind of, that level of granularity on intelligence makes things a lot harder. And so I think that the agency,

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

there's two parts of it.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

One is what we call FI collection, foreign intelligence collection. And that's, what are the Iranians going to do? What's the Iranian order of battle for the military? What's their decision making? What's the health of the supreme leader? Is the IRGC really kind of the dominant faction in control? Who's on top, who's who in the zoo?

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

And then the other part of it

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

would be more of kind of the tactical part, the pattern of life of individuals, how to support US Military strikes. Yeah, but again, I don't know the level of, of intelligence collection that we have. And, and with that in mind, it makes it hard then to even. And so then you kind of, and

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

that's, that's some types of collection. Then you have the COVID action side

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

is, are there elements of any kind of Iranian opposition figures inside, who we

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

can be working with? I mean, President Trump has actually been

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

complaining that there was some kind of aborted covert action effort where we gave arms to the Iranian Kurds and they stole all the weapons.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

Which. And he never should be talking about

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

this in public at all.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

But, you know, what does that even mean?

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Was there a covert action plan? So, lots of questions.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

But, but I don't know.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

And I don't think there's enough scrutiny. The national security media has failed on this, but there should be much more scrutiny of the, the degree of success that CIA has had in penetrating the Iranian regime.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Well, I'm sure we, I Mean, we had him clocked pretty good right before, you know, you know, in 2020 when we smoked Soleimani, like we had him, we knew where he was going.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

That's a way different type of collection. That's pattern of life on an individual. That's putting someone on the X. That's not rec. Recruiting someone in the inner circle.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Sure.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Of the Supreme Leader.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

And those, those are the decisions that, that, I mean right now. So here's, here's what we need to have.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

I don't know if we have it.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

And in agents I've run in the past, penetrations of foreign governments.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

We did have this level of penetration.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

We need the talking points that the

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Iranians were going to use in Pakistan, period.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

The talking points.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Yeah, I'm holding up a check right now. I don't even know what this is for.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

We need that. We need those talking points. And if you don't have that, you know, we are at a, we are

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

at a disadvantage diplomatically.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

So while we can put someone on the X for a kinetic strike.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

That's awesome. That's pattern of life. That's recruiting the janitor.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Yeah.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

That's not plans and intentions.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Strategic long term intelligence.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

Hard to do.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

So like someone's assistant or something like that.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

If anyone's listening out there and they want to make like a couple hundred thousand dollars a month, hey, no, here's a great opportunity.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

No, you contact D and D will be your front guest.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Yeah, I'll totally be the middleman. I don't give a shit. Absolutely.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

A little cut.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

You got a little. Get a little slice of the piece

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

of America, for God's sakes. I'm facilitating.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

The Trump administration will understand that because

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

I think that's what we do now. Yeah, it's all about getting your slice, you know.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Yeah.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

You know, one of the funny things what reminds me of the United.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

This is digressing a little bit. When I was in Jordan, I did several tours in Jordan and the Jordanians are amazing allies. But we'd always joke that some of the Jordanian security officials when they came into positions of power would have several

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

years to make themselves as rich as

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

possible before they got caught and fired. I think, I think we're there.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

The GID is no bullshit, right?

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

No bullshit, but same thing. GID directors have been fired successively for corruption.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Yeah.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

But they're a great ally. Tremendous ally and great partners and really helped in the GWOT and that. We always consider Jordan kind of our lily pad in the Middle east to do a lot of cool stuff.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

All right, moving to the new counterterrorism strategy. They. They haven't been coming out. Like, usually there's a national defense strategy or whatever. Like, every year this comes out, like, maybe once every four or five years. Like, it's not exactly like every year thing. So you'd think there'd be a little bit more thought that went into it slightly, but it's like 16 pages. You guys can take a look at it, just go to, like, Whitehouse, go. You can read the bullshit that they. They put. It's extremely partisan.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

You know, Joe Biden's mentioned like, a ton of times.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Right, right.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

It's. It's what, you know, and like, we still have to go after the, you know, Islamic terrorists and stuff like that, you know, our bread and butter what make Mark a millionaire. You know, why he made the big bucks over the last 25 years. But then we also have to watch out for antifa and some of the transgender terrorists. Yeah, exactly. No real mention about, like, you know, far right wing, far right terrorism or extremists and stuff like that, which we know exists. Like, sorry, guys, it's just the truth in America. It was. It was just insane. It was an insane partisan document that, like, aren't you supposed to have smart people work on this? Like, you know.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

Well, we don't, because only one person

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

worked on this, and that's the director of counterterrorism at the National Security Council, someone by the name of Sebastian Gorka, who was kind of this. Kind of member of the. The right wing. He worked in the first Trump administration. About five minutes before he couldn't get a security clearance and was removed. He's insane. Let's just be very clear. This is not right versus Left. This is not Democrat versus Republican. He is totally unqualified for this, and

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

he wrote this on his own.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Now, ordinarily, the NSC document like this would be part of kind of an interagency process. You know, the NSC is the coordinating body in the United States government that's supposed to take input from the intelligence

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

community, from the military, from Department of Treasury, from the diplomatic community, the State

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Department and others, and put together a strategy, a whole of government strategy.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

Yet this was insane. Parts of it, okay, are fine.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Do we have to go after Islamic extremism?

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

Absolutely.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

But let's go over the strategy one by one, because this is something. Because I read it, and everyone is in kind of disbelief.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

There's nobody in the counterterrorism world who

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

thinks this was anything other than A giant piece of giant turd.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

And even those of my friends kind

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

of who are the maga. Curious types and from the right. And that's fine, but they're like, oh, my God, look at this thing. So it starts off with the notion that the biggest counterterrorism threat is narco traffickers. Are narco traffickers an issue for the United States government?

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

Absolutely.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

You know, traditionally, we would go after them based on counter narcotics strategy, which had to do with law enforcement, the military, you know, liaison partners, public health as well. But they're. But they're kind of now saying that this is the biggest terrorism threat because they're using terrorism authorities to go kill them as we're drilling people on boats.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

And also active on the ground.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

And active on the ground, too. And so. And so I think that's a mistake. I think it's apples and oranges. You know, America has a demand for drugs.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

America does not have a demand for terrorists.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Right.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

And so that's not to say this is not an issue. Fentanyl is a massive issue.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

But the idea that this should be done under the CT authorities is, I think, is nuts.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

And the problem with that is, is you then divert resources, as we have

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

talked about, I think, on Izon in the past. But certainly members of the CIA have been diverted from the threat against Islamic extremism. They're down in Mexico. In fact, tragically, two CIA officers were killed down in Mexico recently

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

doing things that we used to do in the

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

war in the gwat. And so I think that elevating narco traffickers to this terrorism and the terrorism paradigm is not smart.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

But the. But the part of it which gets a little nuts.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

D. And you noted it is the politicization. And so, I mean, literally, transgender ideology and antifa.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

Two very nebulous groups. Have transgender people been involved in terrorism? Sure. But just think about if I was sitting in London station and I was

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

going to my colleagues in the British intelligence service at SIS and saying, let's talk ct. And they're like, all right, let's talk, you know, Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, isil.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

You're like, no, no, no, wait, wait, wait, wait. Yeah, we got to talk about the real fucking.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

No, no, no, no, no. Yeah, because the White House has said we're talking about transgender.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

That's what I'm saying. Yeah. Like, stop. Yeah.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

And then we would be laughed out of the room. So this is preposterous.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Alongside of that, which is, of course, blatant politicization. And it's just not it's going to be ignored. No CIA officer is going to ever approach foreign leaders on service on this.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

But the other part of it is

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

they, they don't talk about right wing terrorism.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

And since 2001, 85% of, of terrorism

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

domestically in the US has been carried out by the right.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

That's not to say there's not left wing terrorism. It exists, it should be investigated. We should put the full power in the US government against it 100%.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

And I'm for that.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

But not even to mention the right wing terrorism is insane because the data is very clear. Now. You have high profile events like the assassination of Charlie Kirk undertaken by the

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

left or whatever that person was. I think that was the transgender thing that people freaked out about.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

But again, the data shows that the

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

majority of the terrorism comes from the right.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

And so just mention it by not mentioning it.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

It's crazy.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

I think the last he was writing

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

it for one guy, let's be honest,

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

there was typos in it. I mean, it was nonsensical kind of blather. It's almost fun to respond to. And there's people in the CT world,

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

whether it's Colin Clark or Jacob Ware or others who are really smart on this, who immediately said, this is a big load of shit and we're very vocal on it.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

But the last part of it, which

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

I think is the most important part, and this I think will resonate with the audience here, is that there has to be a whole government approach and

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

there has to be the use of

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

what we had in the past, which

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

was American soft power. So you cannot kill our way out of this problem. Every CT expert, if Mick was on here and him and I did CT

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

stuff together, he'd say the same thing.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

Soft power means the US Department of State. It means what we used to have

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

in USAID gone now, you know, General Mattis, who, and I'm going to botch his quote. But essentially he said, you know, if

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

we don't have diplomacy, if we don't

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

have soft power, I got to buy more ammunition.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Yeah.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

And so ultimately not having a soft power strip because terrorists thrive in places

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

where there's lack of kind of government, ungoverned spaces. I'm sorry, Terrorism thrives when there is terrible poverty. And so the US government has had a huge role to play in that counter radicalization programs.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

Right, but, but, but the CT document basically says we're killing our way out of this problem.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

And, and that just, that's not, that's not a strategy. That's certainly not a solution. And this is coming from someone who did a lot of those things and

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

I believe in that.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

But I was a very small piece

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

of the pie and piece.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

But there's got to be other stuff too. So the whole CT strategy is just. It's just comical and it's sad.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

And the problem is if it was just a speech Trump gave, who cares but. But it's not.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

It's this.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

It's the strategy that comes from the White House and that means resources are push.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

That's the key part of this. I don't care what Gorka or the president really think.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

I care what how many billions.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Millions or billions certain entities in the US Government get to tackle this issue. But resources are going to emanate from this document.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

Now, with all that in mind, there

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

were a couple counterterrorism successes recently. We killed a senior ISIS member in Nigeria. Al Manuki is his name. Of course the administration as only they can exaggerated it. He said he was the number two ISIS guy worldwide. That's not true.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

Yeah, is important and it's a great strike. At the same time we arrested in

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Turkey the leading figure in Katat I

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

Hezbollah which is an Iraqi Shia group supported by Iran. Great, great get.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

No doubt.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

What's he doing hanging in Turkey?

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Well, I think he was en route to Russia. That's kind of interesting.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

Khattab Hezbollah has been involved in the deaths of Americans and he was responsible for.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

And now it's coming out all these

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

kind of mysterious attacks against Jewish targets

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

globally after the war in Iran started. And so that's a really good, a good operation that was. That was carried out.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

Interestingly though, nothing in the document says hey, by the way, because of our activities in Ron in Iran, terrorism may explode now.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Which is what was all of our worry.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

And so now we have this really big takedown that everyone is touting.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Yet in the CT strategy there's no mention that our actions in Iran.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Right.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Actually will have kind of pushed such shuts states.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

And you know, one of the things

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

is that you know, and again this d. This is going to go back to my. I cite the Israelis a lot but

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

when I worked with the Israelis and they would think about undertaking some type

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

of kinetic operation and they would be

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

very clear in their cost benefit analysis they would say if we do this a Soleimani type thing, we're going to lose an embassy. We're willing to do that. This administration ours has never done that.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

They never said, you know what was

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

there ever a document tasked the Intelligence community saying, if we, if we go after Iran, if we launch this war, these are the things, Mr. President, that

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

are going to occur. Americans are going to die in terrorist attacks overseas.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

And I don't think that happened. And that's the right way to look at these things because nothing comes free.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

There's no.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

It's not even overseas either. It's like we've had. It was like lone wolf guys.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

There's been some guy in Austin who was inspired by the Iranian thing, the kid whose family members lived in Lebanon.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

And the Iranians

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

avenge this stuff. And so that's where I think. But the CT strategy is just a mess. And you just kind of shake your head and.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

Because the problem is that in this administration there are not people who served

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

in the first Trump administration because they don't want to.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

But Nick is a perfect example. Mick was in the first Trump administration. Great American, did great stuff there.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

But I don't think Nick would. I'm not going to speak for him anyhow.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

But, but you know, you don't have

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

kind of experts there now who would be able to help on such a CT strategy. And so you get this kind of kind of piece of garbage as a document. But it's there and they're proud of it.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

That's the other thing. There's no. And Gork is running around in the media saying how great this is.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Yeah, it's unbelievable, really. The cognitive dissonance that's like just, just plain. It's just plain as day. It's not even like they're not even trying to hide it. I think it's fucking scary, you know, for. If you're an American citizen who maybe leans left or if you're a transgender person, like, come on, bro, what are we talking about?

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

I would say if you're a centrist, I mean just anything or you're just a regular American. Like, it's just weird. What are we doing talking about antifa and. And, and.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

And transgender ideology when it comes to counterterrorism? That's just kind of strange. Now talk about left wing terrorism.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Sure, yeah.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

You know, and, and, and of course.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

And then no mention of. Of kind of terrorism through.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

But that just, you know, from the right. But that just kind of. You have it. Like all you have to do is write a normal document.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Right.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

Like, why can't they just do that?

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

I don't know, bro.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

I don't like me who are from the center and are still critics. The administration would say, hey, that was pretty good.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Right.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

I like that.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Yeah.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

You know, but that's. They can't even do something like that

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

because it's so politicized. Everything is. And that, to me, is the kind of the tragedy that I say to

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

my Republican friends and I have millions of them, I'm like, how do you defend this?

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

And they just kind of shrug, you

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

know, that's bad, bro. Let me ask you this. You mentioned, like, how the Israelis do, like, their calculus on, like, when they want to go kinetic. Do you think that calculus has kind of changed a little bit since October 7th? And, like, yes, you know what I mean? Like, in terms of, like, what they're expecting blowback to be? You know, are they even thinking of that anymore? Did they expect when we, us and them hit in on February 28th, Iran. That they would. Iran would respond so aggressively.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

Frankly, you're asking some. You ask better questions to me than you do when the other people are on the group.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Thanks. Yeah, well, it's easier when it's one or two people.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

I know, I know.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

But so great question.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

I think October 7th changed the mentality of Israeli national security officials massively. You know, there is no more kind of tolerance for any kind of risk. And now the problem also is that Netanyahu is also drunk on power and drunk on using the military.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

And Israeli diplomacy could actually be just

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

as effective on some of these things and some deterrence as well. But Netanyahu, the second this war ends, is going to face elections. And so, you know, there's no. So that has really kind of screwed a lot of things up.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

But my friends in Israel definitely are

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

traumatized, understandably, from October 7th. And so, you know, the kind of the fallback on using the Israeli military or intelligence services, you know, I think the aperture is much wider now, the appetite for that, but it's also changing because there's friends of mine, too, are

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

like, you know what? We're exhausted.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

The IDF is exhausted. And all these promises that Netanyahu made about keeping us safer, I'm not so sure now.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

And look, exactly what's.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

The Israelis just killed the leading military official in Gaza. Again, great operation. But Hamas still controls Gaza. They are not disarming. There's a ceasefire, sort of, but ultimately they're still bombing.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

You know, kids.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Yeah, but so what has, you know, what, what has been. The promises that the Israeli political kind of echelon have made to the Israeli public have not been. Have not. Have not come come forward. And, and so, you know, there is that notion again of, you know, it's the idea of military, you know, military operations. Kinetic capabilities are really important, but it's

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

just one piece of the piece of. I mean, think about right now. If Netanyahu, and he can't do it

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

because he's kind of, he has, he's reliant on the crazy right wing in Israel for his political survival.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

But if he actually said at any point after October 7th, yes, there will

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

be peace with the Palestinians, there will

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

be a Palestinian state, the Saudis would have signed on. This is before the Iran war. The Saudis would have signed on to the Abraham Accords. There would have been a peace treaty between Israel and Saudi Arabia and that would have changed.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Ben GVIR would have had him killed.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

But that would have changed the region if he had done these. So the Israeli government falls, but there's a peace treaty with the Saudis. That's unbelievable. And then you have this absolute kind

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

of alliance of the Sunni Gulf Arab

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

states in Israel against who?

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Against Iran.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

And perhaps we would have been better off globally right there rather than what

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

you have right now. But you know, that's kind of just wishful thinking for sure.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

I mean.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

Yeah, but Mohammed bin Salman, the Saudis were ready. They just had to say something, give us something.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Yeah, I get it.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

And Bibi couldn't do it for his political survival. But also, I think there was a

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

lot of trauma after October 7th and it's just too bad. It's sad.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Yeah. I guess you see BB 60 Minute interview.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

Yeah.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

And that was designed for the American audience only.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Fucking nonsense.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Well, who doesn't say any of that stuff?

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

70 year olds. The fucking 70 year olds. Who's going to buy that bullshit?

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

Yeah.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

So I mean, ultimately the, you know, he does this for the US Audience and, and CBS wasn't really.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Well, Barry Weiss gave him the choice of who to have as an interviewer

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

and they also edited a lot of stuff.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Yeah, it's like, come on, big deal.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Because they, you know, remember they didn't Trump sue them or something like.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Trump sued. Yeah, correct. So

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

we're being positive positivity.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

I was about to be very negative just now.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

The positivity.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Let's see, what can I bring positive about?

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Can I bring up one thing? You know that there's Israel is suing the New York Times for that article.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

The Kristoff. I didn't like. I mean, I'll be honest.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Which was horrific.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

But I didn't, I didn't like the

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Kristoff article because it was an opinion piece, it wasn't written.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

But he spoke to 14 sources.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

Yeah, but they're also very kind of.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

So I, I'm.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

You and I might disagree on this, but. Well, first of all, Kristof can write anything he wants.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

The New York Times can publish anything they want. Kristof, I think, has a record of being very critical of the Israelis. You might agree with it, you might not. I didn't like the sourcing on it,

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

but I don't care. It's an opinion piece. Who gives a shit? And then of course, everyone went crazy after this.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

And the idea of the Israelis suing

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

the New York Times is preposterous. We have First Amendment rights here. It's an opinion piece. It's not in the news section.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Even if it is in the news section and it's well sourced, fuck you.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

But it's not, it doesn't have to be well sourced. And I would argue that it's not well sourced because I didn't like the sources that are used. But again, the point on here is that it's not from their national security team, which has a much different fact checking process. It's an opinion piece. Nicholas Kristoff can act, can think anything he wants, and they can write anything they want. And that's fine. The smartest thing for the Israelis to do would have been like, that's an opinion piece. Thanks a lot. And then. But by suing the New York Times,

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

it's just, it gets to be kind of ridiculous. And so a lot of friends who

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

are incensed about this, I'm like, sure, get angry at Nicholas Kristoff. It's an opinion piece. The Washington Post has crazy opinion pieces too. And that's, I mean, that's the idea. Like you can have debates on stuff.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Well, all right, so like Christoph didn't go to Gaza, right? He was going, he went to the west bank because Western journalists aren't allowed in Gaza, number one. Number two, that video that leaked out from the prison in Gaza was a guy getting gang raped. That those guys got let off the hook like the soldiers that gang raped that guy.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

And that's the point on that is

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

so like, I just don't want to hear the most moral army in the world when things like that are happening in prisons.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

The prison system in Israel has huge problems, no doubt. So the right response on this would have been, yeah, there's, you know, this

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

is not going to happen. But the mature response is, yeah, the prison system is really messed up. You know, in Israel it needs reform.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

But some of these allegations about training

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

dogs for raping people are kind of ridiculous.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

But, you know, we'll look into it

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

because it's a big deal because, you know, we want to have the right set of morals.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

You know, New York Times don't agree

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

with all of this, but we're on it now. That's in another. Of course that's not going to happen,

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

but that's the right attitude. Like, I'm not going to defend the

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Israelis or the Israeli prison system.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

I think training rape dogs. And that's been this trope that's been

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

used by the kind of the crazy left, you know, who hates all counterterrorism activity all the time. You know, there's been allegations of that forever.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

I don't even think that's possible.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

I don't know about the dog. I mean, but they didn't. It wasn't just dogs raping people. It was Right.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

But that doesn't mean the horrible abuses haven't occurred. And they have. And so that's the way you tackle this.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

But, you know, I mean, suing the New York Times just.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

I'm like, at this point, like, you can't defend. You can't defend that. That's just stupid and they're just dumb. You sue the New York Times, what's that going to do? It's going to stay in the news for years.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Yeah, it's fucking so dumb.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

It's like, stupid. And if you're in the Israeli embassy in D.C. i've said this to Israeli embassy officials there. I said, you have a massive problem here because the American left and right have turned against you. And, and so my advice would have

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

been don't sue the New York Times.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Right.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

What are you doing? This is, I mean, it's like New York on.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

And frankly, the New York Times has had, like, has been called out on having, like a pro Israel bias as well.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

So that's.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Yeah. So let's, like, I don't know if you should be suing the New York Times.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

Look, look, look, in the United States, we face the same things.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

There are allegations which were confirmed of torture at Abu Ghraib. The American military did some pretty horrific stuff.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

The American CIA did some stuff that's

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

kind of messed up over the years.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

So you don't, you don't.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Kind of the reaction against it is not like this is not true.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

Well, some of it's true. It's a lot of it's overblown. You know, we didn't waterboard hundreds of people. But the right answer is, you know what? This was done in reaction to September, this is what I tell college students

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

all the time when they ask me.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

Yep, we did some things that probably we shouldn't have. But I'll tell you, the time was people were terrified and we had a lot. We had a big, big fucking menu of options and we chose them all. There was, you know, I, I, the, the analogy I use sometimes is a

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

remote control on a tv. Yeah, we chose every freaking channel.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

We subscribed to everything.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Yeah, yeah.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

You know, looking back, like, shouldn't have done that.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Also, frankly, if you didn't get the direction from the Bush White House that EITs were okay, you guys probably wouldn't be doing them.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

I don't know. There's, there was a lot.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

I mean, again, but maybe like a rogue maniac would.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

But no, we were bloodthirsty, just like the Israelis were after October 7th.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Yeah, but do you think you guys, the CIA, would have done that unilaterally without the fucking President saying, yeah, it's okay.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

No, I mean, you have to get the legal opinion that it was okay.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Right, right. And there was a ton of beef over that too.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

Like, but, but the bottom line is there were plenty of people who still think it's okay. And I'm, and I'm really agnostic on

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

this whole thing because I remember that. I literally remember members of Congress from the Democratic Party from the left who are basically wanting us to kill everyone. I mean, no, yeah, yeah. Whether it's, you know, from, from really senior members of Democrats who were just like, you know, why aren't you just cutting fucking throats everywhere?

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

I remember after 9 11, directly after 9 11, nor everybody was saying, let's fucking nuke wherever we need. You know, like just crazy shit.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

And so, and so that. But, but you have to have the maturity later on to say, yeah, I'm

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

not, I'm not defending everything we did. You have to say, yeah, we probably shouldn't have done that stuff.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

This is the reason why we did. I don't think we'll do it again. No CIA officer is ever going to waterboard anybody ever again, period. Not because they don't think it works.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Because that's debatable. It's that I'm not fucking getting in trouble with this.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

I don't care what you tell me. Remember when Trump was, was running for president again?

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

He said, I'm going to bring back waterboarding. And everyone at the Agency's like, good luck, man.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Yeah, yeah.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

I'm not going to jail for this.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

I don't care what kind of doj opinion you give.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Right.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Because I'm not going down for this kind of crap.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

What does the Agency do now? We just hand them off to like, GID or somebody and they take care of it?

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

No, I mean, there's.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Well, I mean, first of all, the CIA is not in the, in the, in the, in the whatchamacallit. Well, sort of. We're not in the business of holding prisoners.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Right, right. Okay.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

That did not look.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

That did not turn out.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Yeah, it wasn't great. No, it wasn't great for the pr, bro. I'll be honest.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

Like, even the other thing, too. Like, I mean, I remember doing prison debriefs. I'm like, in Afghanistan early on.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

I don't know what the fuck I'm doing.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

I'm not trained. I'm the case officer. I'm not trained. I'm not a debriefer.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

I'm not, you know, I don't know what I'm doing on this thing. And so, yeah, so we're not in the business of that anymore. And that's. Again, it's.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

But, you know, at some point, I hope for my Israeli friends sake that

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

they will come to the realization that there were massive excesses after October 7th. And my response to that would be, I understand your pain and your grief and the desire for revenge, but the government of Israel did some things they probably shouldn't have done.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

And I think at some point people

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

will come to that realization and you

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

can be as hardline as you want.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

People in Israel.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

You mean. Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

I mean, you know, I think a lot of Americans were like, good Lord.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

But, well, we're already there.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Americans, the majority are going to come

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

to their, come to their senses on this. But the trauma of October 7th is,

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

is, you know, was, was so fresh and that's. And we have to remember the trauma that we had after September 11th. And so that's kind of where I, where I stand on this, having been

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

involved in a lot of.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Lot of crazy stuff that we did.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Yeah. So it was a couple dozen people. They got CIA waterboarded or.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

I can't talk about CIA and waterboarding and any kind of authority. And actually, I didn't have anything to do with that. But, but, but just, you know, it's. This is all reported stuff.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Right.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

You talk about testimony. I think it's. The numbers that have kind of come in public were far less than what is. It would have been alleged.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

And the other part of it too,

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

I mean, I got in trouble in all these and all my podcasts. I did it with you guys. I did it like on the Sean Ryan show, you know, and Jack Carr and others when I just.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

When people would ask me, what do

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

you think about this? Do you have any regrets? I'm like, no.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

I mean, there was.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

It was a different time.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

I just don't mean.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Why. Yeah, I don't know why did we

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

do some stuff that was messed up?

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Sure. But it was after October 11, you know, 3,000Americans died. You know, they asked us to take it to the enemy. And so in retrospect, were some of these things a little wacky? Yeah, probably. But, you know, do I have any regrets?

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

I mean, I'd be a fucking hypocritical asshole.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

I could do it easily. I could go on Ms. Now.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

They'd love this, you know.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Yeah.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

But so bad for what we did. I just don't. I'd be lying. But again, you know, in retrospect, probably

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

the US military and the intelligence community did some things we shouldn't have done. And the Israelis will eventually come to that realization. It just takes a lot of time. Yeah.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

We could go back and forth on this a lot. A long time. I feel like. I don't think any war is moral really, when it comes down to it's horrible all the way. But what we're seeing in Gaza is pretty fucking reprehensible.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

The civilian deaths are. And the notion of even Lebanon too.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

I know Hezbollah sucks in the Middle

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

east and in Gaza in particular are far beyond anything that the US government

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

would tolerate under conflict.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

Andy and I have written about this.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

We got into fights with everybody about this.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Yeah.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

You know, I supported him with. When he was doing stuff with war on the rocks against some kind of. Really, kind of extreme. More extreme pro is real, folks. And so. But it just, it's just a fact. Like, you know, we care about Civcast much more than.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

I mean, we lost a fuck ton of Marines in Fallujah that Andy was commanding, some of them, you know what I mean? Like to clear house to house to avoid just, you know, wholesale bombing, the

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

entire thing, you know. You know, I've been involved in some sit cast incidents. It's really bad. Like, you don't want to be involved in that. And so the idea of, like, we

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

shouldn't give a shit about civilian casualties.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

People in the US military and the intelligence community do. Yeah, you just do. You don't want to be. You don't want to be hurting innocent people. That's not a good feeling. And that's Not.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

That's something that's going to stay with you.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

And that. And again, that's different than the conversation we just had about some of the more extreme things we did in the gwat. These. And the reason why I say I

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

don't have a lot of regrets on kind of the collective on what was done is because these are really bad people. And so, you know. But now was.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

Should we still do those kind of things?

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Yeah, probably not, but. But that's way different than accidentally killing a, you know, a non combat.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Right. Yeah, no, for sure. All right, this is good. I like, we're supposed to go. We're supposed to go 20 minutes. It's been 52, 53.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

But.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

But again.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

But you know, it's. It's fun talking on this. And I think I will say this to you. Sometimes, you know, the other guests kind of dominate a lot of stuff, but you got a lot of good. A lot of good points and you got to be on these things.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

No, listen, we have so many. I. Yeah, I appreciate that. But I mean, we have so many guys on. You guys are all experts. I don't really know. I'm running my mouth. I read the news like everybody else, so I'd rather. I'd rather have John Hackett like talk about like actual. Than me run my mouse. Like, maybe I can learn something. I'll always jump in. When I think the CIA ghouls are going too far. I'll always jump in.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

Well, just remember, you got a lot of good points to make. That was awesome. That was fun.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Thanks, bro. All right, I want everyone to do me a favor. Check out Mark's stuff. The links are in the description and the best place to support the show is patreon.com house. You get both eyes on it. Geopolitics episodes and Team House episodes ad free and early. And you help support the show. Mark. A pleasure as always.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

Remember what I said before. We need Team House slash Izon Coffee man.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Scott. Yeah. Before we jumped on Marcus, we were brainstorming on like, ideas.

[Co-host (possibly Andy)]

Black Rifle Coffee. I was like, it's pretty good. We need Teamhouse.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

I don't think another vet bro coffee company is in the mix needed in the market right now.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

All right, well, we'll do. We'll do an audience poll.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Yeah, There was actually a good coffee company we had as a sponsor called Redacted Coffee. And they had some really cool, like, cool. The coffee was good too, but they had some really cool, like, covers and stuff like that was like trippy, like MK Ultra stuff. Yeah, yeah, it was a cool. It's a cool company. Check it out. It's redacted coffee.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

All right, cool.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

All right, Mark. Thank you.

[Mark Polymeropoulos]

All right.

[Team House Podcast Promoter]

Hey, guys, I want to take a moment to tell you about the Team House podcast newsletter. If you go and subscribe, it's totally free and what it's will do is aggregate all of our data, all of our content that we put out, the things that are on the team House on our Geopolitics podcast. Eyes on things that I write journalistically with Sean Naylor on the high side, anything else that we have going on, books, we recommend upcoming guests that we have coming on the show and also, you know, filtering in some fun stuff in there as well. If you go and check it out. We send it out just once a week. We don't want to spam you guys. It's just a kind of roll up of all of our content on a weekly basis. You can find our [e-mail] join again. The website for that is teamhousepodcast.kit.com join so we hope to see you.

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[Narrator (World War II Museum Podcast)]

It's World War II and American spies

are on a secret mission to stop Nazi Germany from building an atomic bomb.

[Bradley W. Hart]

I'm Bradley W. Harp, host of the

[Narrator (World War II Museum Podcast)]

National World War II Museum's podcast series,

Secret World War II Spies and Special Ops.

The largest conflict in human history wasn't

just one on the battlefield, it was

also one in the shadows.

A new season is available now.

Find and follow Secret World War II

wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Narrator (World War II Museum Podcast)]

It's World War II and American spies

are on a secret mission to stop Nazi Germany from building an atomic bomb.

[Bradley W. Hart]

I'm Bradley W. Hart, host of the

[Narrator (World War II Museum Podcast)]

National World War II Museum's podcast series

Secret World War II Spies and Special Ops.

The largest conflict in human history wasn't

just one on the battlefield, it was

also one in the shadows.

A new season is available now.

Find and follow Secret World War II

wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Narrator (World War II Museum Podcast)]

It's World War II and American spies

are on a secret mission to stop Nazi Germany from building an atomic I'm

[Bradley W. Hart]

Bradley W. Harp, host of the National

[Narrator (World War II Museum Podcast)]

World War II Museum's podcast series Secret

World War II Spies and Special Ops.

The largest conflict in human history wasn't

just one on the battlefield, it was

also one in the shadows.

A new season is available now.

Find and follow Secret World War II

wherever you get your podcasts

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[Narrator (World War II Museum Podcast)]

It's World War II and American spies

are on a secret mission to stop Nazi Germany from building an atomic bomb.

[Bradley W. Hart]

I'm Bradley W. Harp, host of the

[Narrator (World War II Museum Podcast)]

National World War II Museum's podcast series,

Secret World War II Spies and Special Ops.

The largest conflict in human history wasn't

just one on the battlefield.

It was also one in the shadows.

A new season is available now.

Find and follow Secret World War II

wherever you get your podcasts.

[Liberty Mutual Advertiser]

And Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual. Even if it means sitting front row at a comedy show.

Hey everyone, check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?

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[Narrator (World War II Museum Podcast)]

It's World War II and American spies

are on a secret mission to stop Nazi Germany from building an atomic bomb.

[Bradley W. Hart]

I'm Bradley W. Hart, host of the

[Narrator (World War II Museum Podcast)]

National World War II Museum's podcast series,

Secret World War II Spies and Special Ops.

The largest conflict in human history wasn't

just one on the battlefield.

It was also one in the shadow.

A new season is available now.

Find and follow Secret World War II

wherever you get your podcasts.

[Liberty Mutual Advertiser]

And Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual, even if it means sitting front row at a comedy show.

Hey everyone, check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?

Oh, no.

We help people customize and see Save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual.

Together we're married. Me to a human, him to a bird.

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league.

Anyways, get a [e-mail] or with your local agent.

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a free to play social casino void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details.

[Narrator (World War II Museum Podcast)]

It's World War II and American spies

are on a secret mission to stop Nazi Germany from building an atomic bomb.

[Bradley W. Hart]

I'm Bradley W. Harp, host of the

[Narrator (World War II Museum Podcast)]

National World War II Museum's podcast series,

Secret World War II Spies and Special Ops.

The largest conflict in human history wasn't

just one on the battlefield.

It was also one in the shadows.

A new season is available now.

Find and follow Secret World War II

wherever you get your podcasts.

[Liberty Mutual Advertiser]

And Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on

car insurance with Liberty Mutual.

Even if it means sitting front row at a comedy show.

Hey, everyone, check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?

Oh, no.

We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual.

Together. We're married. Me to a human, him to a bird.

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league.

Anyways, get a'@libertymutual.com or with your local agent.

Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty.

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[SpinQuest Legal Disclaimer]

Spinquest is a free to play social casino void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details.

[Narrator (World War II Museum Podcast)]

It's World War II and American spies

are on a secret mission to stop Nazi Germany from building an atomic bomb.

[Bradley W. Hart]

I'm Bradley W. Hart, host of the

[Narrator (World War II Museum Podcast)]

National World War II Museum's podcast series

Secret World War II Spies and Special Ops.

The largest conflict in human history wasn't

just one on the battle battlefield.

It was also one in the shadows.

A New season is available now.

Find and follow Secret World War II

wherever you get your podcasts.

[Liberty Mutual Advertiser]

And Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on

car insurance with Liberty Mutual.

Even if it means sitting front row at a comedy show.

Hey, everyone, check out this guy and his bird. What is this? You're first date?

Oh, no.

We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual.

Together. We're married. Me to a human, him to a bird.

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league.

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[SpinQuest Legal Disclaimer]

play social casino void. Where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details.

[Narrator (World War II Museum Podcast)]

It's World War II and American spies

are on a secret mission to stop Nazi Germany from building an atomic.

[Bradley W. Hart]

I'm Bradley W. Hart, host of the

[Narrator (World War II Museum Podcast)]

National World War II Museum's podcast series,

Secret World War II Spies and Special Ops.

The largest conflict in human history wasn't

just one on the battlefield.

It was also one in the shadows.

A new season is available now.

Find and follow Secret World War II

wherever you get your podcasts.

[Liberty Mutual Advertiser]

And Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual. Even if it means sitting front row at a comedy show.

Hey, everyone. Check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?

Oh, no.

We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual.

Together we're married. Me to a human, him to a bird.

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league.

Anyways, get a [e-mail] or with your local agent.

Liberty Liberty. Liberty. Liberty.

[Host (possibly Sean Hackett)]

Foreign

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[Narrator (World War II Museum Podcast)]

It's World War II and American spies

are on a secret mission to stop Nazi Germany from building an atomic bomb.

[Bradley W. Hart]

I'm Bradley W. Hart, host of the

[Narrator (World War II Museum Podcast)]

National World War II Museum's podcast series,

Secret World War Spies and Special Ops.

The largest conflict in human history wasn't

just one on the battlefield.

It was also one in the shadows.

A new season is available now.

Find and follow Secret World War II

wherever you get your podcasts.

[Liberty Mutual Advertiser]

And Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual. Even if it means sitting front row at a comedy show.

Hey, everyone, check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?

Oh, no.

We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual together.

We're married. Me to a human, him to a bird.

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league.

Anyways, get a [e-mail] or with your local agent.

Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty.

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[Narrator (World War II Museum Podcast)]

It's World War II and American spies

are on a secret mission to stop Nazi Germany from building an atomic bomb.

[Bradley W. Hart]

I'm Bradley W. Harp, host of the

[Narrator (World War II Museum Podcast)]

National World War II Museum's podcast series,

Secret World War II Spies and Special Ops.

The largest conflict in human history wasn't

just one on the battlefield, it was

also one in the shadows.

A new season is available now.

Find and follow Secret World War II

wherever you get your podcasts.