B (2:25)

Yeah, for sure. Today's a fun one. So we're going to give you some of the things that you might encounter if you're moving on with a DA for the first time. A lot of times people are a little bit, like, shocked. There's a few things that are kind of unexpected, I guess, and we'll dig into that, but we're going to tell you what they are and then give you a few, like, sort of tips and solutions on how to minimize it or at least manage your own sort of expectations and not take it personal when you see some of these things happen. And again, like, we want to avoid falling into the roommate trap, because I think sometimes when some of these things happen and then if they go on autopilot, it can turn into, like, a roommate type situation or just a situation where you're fed up and you're like, I don't want to be here anymore anyway. We'll give you some of these good ones and let us know if you've encountered any of these or any additional ones. If any of you in the past have experienced and how you got over that, we'd love to hear that. So. So the first one we want to talk about is das retreat to their own space to create emotional space. Emotional distance. A lot of times, moving in with someone, they might feel this is becoming too close too quick. So das will actively carve out space, and this will obviously cause a lot of, like, distress to the person who's moved in with them because they're like, hey, like, I thought this was supposed to be leveling up our relationship. Like, this is, like, kind of the next stage, and it's gonna bring us closer. But then what you might notice is that a lot of times a DA might almost, like, hide in, like, different spaces or, like, try to carve out space to themselves when you might be thinking, hey, like, we should be hanging out together. Like, we should be spending way more time, like, we live together. What's going on here? So a lot of times, like, they're honestly wondering if they made the right decision. Those wounds of feeling, like, trapped might be starting to come at play, and they're worried, like, oh, what if I feel smothered? And there's just a lot of worry and fears. The big one also is, like, what if I'm not free to do things I like when I'm alone? And we've talked about this in past episodes, but, like, the things that they like to do, and obviously they had no one in their house before where they could just do them as much as they wanted. They're worried that their partner is going to be like. Like, no, you can't, you know, play video games for four hours. Or, like, you should be spending way more time with me. Like, I. I'm here now. You should be paying attention to me. So DA Might start to really feel, like, anxious and worried about that, and you might notice them not communicating that they want space, and they'll just kind of, like, hide in the house or hide in different places. And it might let the part leave the partner feeling, like, what's going on here? Like, are we playing hide and seek? Like, tell me why we're not. Why are we not spending more time together when we live in the same house? So, yeah, that's number one. Have you experienced that or do you have any comments?

A (5:07)

Yeah, this is great. I love this. This is such a good one to start off with. So here's what I would say, and we can really talk about, like, what to do in here. But the first thing is that this happens all the time for people. And honestly, this, I would say this happened, like, probably with, like, clients that I saw, like, 80, 90% of the time that I would see clients. And as many people listening know, when I first met my husband, we moved in, like, relatively early. He was actually the one pushing to move in, which is very interesting now that I think about it and reflect back. But he was, like, at least partially securely attached, but definitely had a lot of DA in there. And I still have a little bit of fearful avoidant in my attachment style at the time. I had done a lot of other work, but hadn't really worked on, like, those aspects of the relationship. Like, relationship. I'd done a lot of deep personal work, but not necessarily, like, communication work and boundaries work and sharing my needs and being vulnerable work. So, anyways, two things. First thing is vast majority of the time, this is what you'd see with people moving in with dismissive avoidance, no matter what. Like, you're gonna see some initial retreat. I saw this a little bit with my husband. I think it was a little bit buffered by the fact that I was working a lot at the time. I was just building my practice, my business. I was a couple years, like, very Fresh into it. And I think that because I was so busy, it like it was. And second of all, I'm also introverted, so I kind of needed my own time as well. So I think we actually kind of clicked in that way that we would both sometimes do things in the house together, like sit and he'd like, play a computer game and I would read a book or something, you know, like in a shared space. So I think there was a little bit of that that wasn't as bad. I definitely would say I usually see it worse if there's like an extroverted person who's anxiously attached with an introverted, dismissive avoidant or situations like that. But the first part, like, there's ways to combat these things in advance. And I'm such a big believer that the things that you leave on autopilot, you'll learn the hard way. So if you have the information and knowledge to know in advance that like, hey, we're gonna have, you know, challenges around space and time, then have the conversation, you know, and something that like, we. Whenever, you know. As I dug more into the attachment style work, I learned to have conversations with him about things saying like, hey, how much time do you need to yourself? And how much time do I need to myself? And how much time do I need together? To feel like we're present together. And then all we did is created really healthy, sustainable habits around it. So we ended up just having like, okay, two nights a week we hang out together, one night we watch a movie, one night we go for date night, or we watch a documentary, whatever, and one night we go for date night. And then we had carved out time. That's like our evenings to ourselves. And just having that time, I think for me was actually really healthy, really good. Cause I was working a lot and like, doing stuff, and it allowed me to have just room to come back to myself. And for him, it allowed him to have time to do his like, creature comfort things. And then the second part of this, I'm just like using us as an example, was that his like, habit or thing is he liked to play video games. And so, you know, like, for me, I just remember at the time, you know, in past relationships, I feel like people had much worse habits that I dated. So for me, I remember being like, I could care less. Like, I like, do not care about that at all. Like, if that's your, like your. Your guilty pleasure, that's like your habit where you'd want to play video games a couple hours a week here and There, like, go for it. Like, do it. Like, do your thing. And so I think that because I was so accepting about that and just, like, didn't have any kind of issue with it, I think that allowed him to just, like, then not feel like he needed to retreat or, like, to your point earlier, try to hide part of who he was when we're living together or part of what recharged him. And that truly is just, like, something that recharges him. And so I think if it was, like, a really bad habit, where it was, like, in excess, like, for hours and hours and hours or something like an addictive way, maybe I would feel. I'm sure I would feel differently about it. But those are really the two pillars. Like, I would say how to combat these things is talk in advance about, like, how much space do you each need apart and how much together make healthy habits around it? That problem is just so solved for in advance, it makes everything easier. And then we have to recognize that, like, to really have both parties in the relationship let their guard down, we have to be accepting of each other. Like, everybody's got their stuff that they do. That may not be the most productive thing in the world all the time, but we're not robots. We're not supposed to be running around being peak productivity 24 7. And so making space for each other's things and just talking about them. I'd be like, oh, how are your video games? How did it go? Just open up. Make it normal to have that really allow somebody to be comfortable in themselves around you. And I think that's a space especially important for dismissive avoidance.

B (9:37)

Yeah, huge. I remember when my partner moved in with me, I was nervous about, oh, she was gonna judge sort of the way that I live. Like, you know, I don't always have people over for visiting and entertaining or that kind of stuff. So, yeah, it's been a lot of time on the Internet, like, watching YouTube videos or watching UFC, like, you know, MMA, UFC fan. So, like, you know, Saturday nights, I could easily spend, like, most of the evening watching UFC fights. But, like, if my partner were to say, like, oh, no, you can't do that. Like, you're not going to be watching that as much anymore. You know, that would kind of be like, oh, okay, like, I'm open to compromise, but if somebody just comes in and it's like, okay, I'm here now, like, the show, the show is over. This is going to be how we're living now for a day, that would be like, the worst thing Ever. Like, that would make them regret the decision of having someone move in and just feel it. Feeling like, oh, my gosh, like, I've lost my autonomy now the expectation's so high. I have to, like, keep this person happy all the time by doing things I don't always want to do. So you just have to be very mindful. And like, you mentioned, like, if your partner is, whatever, on the Internet or doing video games for like eight hours a day and ignoring you, of course that's a conversation that needs to be had. But that's why before, before you move in, it's probably best to have a conversation about, like, how much time we should spend together. Like on the weekends. Are we spending the weekends most of the time together during the week, should we plan? Okay, let's try to have dinner together every night. Not like, maybe breakfast, lunch and dinner, but let's try to have dinners most, most nights, unless one of us has something going on outside of the house. So just kind of have like a loose conversation around, you know, expectations. And for the day, like, don't, don't, like, lie to, like, please the partner and think, oh, like, she's going to think I'm weird or like, yeah, strange or whatnot. If I, like, say truly, like, hey, like, I like to play video games for about four hours a day. Yeah. It's just, you know, you got to own it and that's who you are. And if those are things that bring you happiness or relief or calm, then that's fine. And I'm sure there's things your partner does that don't bring you happiness really, for calm. But that's their sort of right to do those activities as well.

A (11:58)

Exactly. And like, those should just be conversations. Like, if somebody has, okay, like, four hours a day and it's like every day at that point, like, if it, whatever it is, then maybe you're like, hey, like, could we do this on these nights instead? Or, you know, have something like, it's fine to make compromises, like, if it's a little bit more excessive like that.

B (12:15)

But.

A (12:16)

But if somebody needs to do things to, like, recharge, and that's their way of doing things. Like the funniest thing and I'll just be really open to people, is that a lot of people. This is not me speaking negatively towards any particular attachment style, but a lot of times I would see people who, like, would spend, like, hours a day watching, like, reality television, and they would go in and they would be like, my spouse plays video games and they're too old to be playing video games. It's like, will you watch, like, hours of television? Like, what. Is there really that big of a difference? Like, like, if there's so. So people and if something is in excess, cool, like, do more habits, go outside, take up sports or hobbies together. Like, do different things if it's in excess. But if it's like something somebody does for an hour or two and that's just like their way to unplug, like, then that's there. And I could understand too. I know some people's situations, like they have three kids under three and both are working two jobs. And you know, in that case, like, if somebody's not pulling their weight in the relationship, that's a different discussion. But I think really being able to have like, an attitude of acceptance, acceptance and openness and, and just respect for the fact that like, everybody recharges differently. As long as those activities are not things that are like, harming anybody or betraying the relationship in some way or something like that, then it's actually really healthy to make room for those things. And just the more accepting and open you are with each other, the easier things are going to flow for sure.

B (13:36)

Yeah, a thousand percent. And yeah, I remember, like, hiding out early, early on in the. In my partner moving in with me. I think there was some friction about like, you know, I was a little bit more messy or like the way that I did things was not. Not the. The cleanest or like a little bit messy. But I took that, I think at first I took that as like a personal sort of knock against me and, and you know who I am. So I noticed I did. There's two bedrooms here, thankfully. And I noticed I was sort of hiding out almost for the first week because I felt it was like, there was a lot of animosity and like, it was almost instead of a partnership, it was like the enemy lived in the house with me. And like, I could not. I could never do anything right. Like, everything was, you know, I did. Wasn't. Wasn't right. But really she was just stating, like, hey, like, I'm more of a clean type person. And it really bothers me when you don't like, clean the toilet or like, it doesn't bother me. It bothers me when you don't, you know, when you leave a mess on the kitchen table. So I will admit at first, like I said, I was taking that, like, things personally and be like, man, she's really like, pushing at me for all these little things. But really she was just stating sort of her boundaries and her, sort of what she expects in her living environment. And, you know, after just changing a few habits and a few things and it just became like second nature. It's like, okay, I finished eating, like, clean the, clean the kitchen table, no big deal. So, yeah, just to the point where at first I was like, I saw myself hiding. I was like, hiding in the bedroom a lot. I was like, oh, man, like, this feels uncomfortable. And I was thinking like, oh, maybe this wasn't a good idea. Like, I, maybe we have different styles of living and it's not going to work. But I'm like, no, that's the old VA story where you're like, everything needs to be perfect. You're going to move in with someone and your habits are going to mesh and your timing and what time you go to bed together, like, everything has to be perfect and that's, that's who you're meant to be living with. That's just not gonna happen.

A (15:39)

Fantasy.

B (15:40)

Yeah. So once we hash those things out, then right away, like, you're like, not hiding anymore.

A (15:48)

And I think that's the, the, the most important part is like, hash those things out. I find that like with every couple, when people get really stuck, it's. They, there's this ambiguity around it or it's like in the gray area. Like, there's this like halfwayness to the discussion. So it's like, oh, you feel this underlying tension or there's like, you know, okay, somebody's saying something about the tidying this or cleaning that. And then there's one person kind of feeling on the defense and retreating. And it's like, the faster you're like, okay, there's tension. Here's what's going on. Clearly we have different styles of living. Okay, let's just surface it. Like, what are the non negotiables for you? What are the compromises I need you to make for me? How can we meet in the middle? Because at the end of the day, yes, like, you know, one person, if they're super messy all the time, living with a clean person, that's hard on the clean person. Right. So then the tidier person, they have to say, speak up and communicate their boundaries and things like that. But also it's not reasonable to be like, this person is now going to change all of their habits overnight immediately, and they're going to become this perfectly tidy person if that's just not their way of doing things. And it's really interesting not to go too far off Topic. But there's something called, I'm sure most people are familiar with this is 16 personalities or MBTI and Myers Briggs Briggs type indicator. And there's different cognitive functions. And like we have as One of the four letter pairings that you get, you get 16 different potential outputs of pairings. But there's an N or an S and people who are N cognitive functions, it's a very generalized view of it, but they tend to live a lot in their head and so they're not noticing their physical environment in the same way. And the S is they live very present in their physical external environment. And so you have to like, I'm an N as well and my husband is too. So that actually worked out nicely. But you have to kind of clock it. Like, you have to pay attention. Like, Graham and I just got into the habit of like, because we were both like, would leave things open sometimes or just not even notice. And then we just got into a ritual together. It's like, okay, we'll just do it like an evening tidy, like every day. Just do a quick like 10 minute tidy together. And it's just easy and simple. Right? Because the more things are like habituated, the less conflict there is. It's when there's not like a habit and when it hasn't been aired to the surface that it's like the problematic part. Also sometimes like the S's or like the. It's not just S's but people who are like much more orderly, they can have these expectations from their partners like this. Like they're so used to things being a certain way that they're like, okay, everything has to change overnight. And it's like, well, that should just be an aired conversation. Like, how do we make this easier? Do we do like a routine at the end of the day? A routine halfway through the day where you just clean up together? Or that one person who's messier goes in and tidies, you know, for themselves if the other person's been doing it. Like just making it really clear and having a habit and having a discussion around it gets rid of all of the underlying tension.

B (18:28)

Yeah, I like how you highlighted both sides of the perception there. Because the S's get like almost an anxiety when the phone's not playing. So as an end myself, I have to realize that for me it doesn't bother me at all. I can live in a pretty disorderly environment, but I have to realize for my partner that's going to actually like, cause them anxiety and like, they're not Trying to be mean or whatever, but like it's going to make them feel a lot better if I help them keep the place orderly. Then on the flip side, the ends like myself, it's almost like I'm blind to it. She'll be like, oh my God, like what you don't notice there's like sand all over the floor because we live in a beach town, so a lot of times sand can track into the house. And then I'll look at me like, oh, yeah, I guess, I guess totally. When I look at the house, I just, it's like I'm blind to it. So the point is, and I think you pointed out before, for the person who likes it orderly, you have to realize that your, your partner who might be an end, just doesn't see it. And you, you kind of have to repeat it a few times because it's not something that you can just change and be like, oh, she doesn't like sand on the floor. There's never going to be sand on the floor again. Like she had to sort of repeat certain things many times for me to sort of change the habit. But there's two ways of doing it. You can do it where you're getting angry every time. That's probably not going to work too well. But if you like generally remind, hey, like a lot of sand comes in the house, can we, can we just try to do like maybe once a day sweep of the house? Okay. And you might have to say that like 5 or 6 or 20, set.

A (19:59)

An alarm on your phone even or something like, just to like make it a habit. But I, I honestly think to your, to your point, Graham and I would laugh so hard because there would be times where like, I don't mean to go too far down a rabbit hole, but I remember there was one time and we lived together in this condo. It was like a, a two bedroom condo for like a couple years. Like we were like in this place for a while and I had hung a calendar and then I just left it there and we never used it because I would always use a planner and everything or like Google Calendar. First of all, I didn't even notice that like the calendar was there from like the year before. Like the year I come and gone. It had never crossed my mind. Like I just saw this little calendar up by the fridge. And then I remember one day, one time he came home from work and it was like, literally the calendar had been there for like to the next year to the point where it was from the year before. And I didn't notice. And Graham was like, oh, you hung a calendar.

B (20:51)

Oh my gosh, that's amazing.

A (20:53)

We're dying. I was like. Because I realized like, wait. I was like, we hung a calendar. I was like, that calendar has been there since last year. Look, we didn't even change it. And he. And anyways, so I think there's a part where really sometimes if you're somebody who like lives a little bit more in your head, you really don't notice. And it's not like to be rude to the other person or anything like that. But that's where it's like, unless you habituate things, it just like it gets out of hand. You don't realize. So I feel like for those types of situations, like I would always, whenever I would see couples who are in those places, I'd be like, okay, habits, like what are your habits? And just to have something where it's like your alarm goes off at 3:30 every day and you sweep the floor, whatever it is, like it just makes it a hundred times easier.

B (21:31)

Exactly. I love it.

A (21:34)

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B (22:24)

So number two item is that you might notice and be like, hey, what's going on here? So DA's equate comfort with love, which sounds like a good thing on its surface, but they can get kind of complacent. So when things become more serious, a DA might feel settled and that they don't sort of have to try anymore. So they might not like take their partner out on dates as often as they used to or like take them out to shows or whatever, like go outside and like, take basically date your partner still, which everyone should be doing. They really get comfortable in staying home a lot and just being comfortable and thinking, oh, this is great. Like, you know, we're comfy in the house watching Netflix every night. And I can get guilty of that too. I, I love that. But you have to realize, like, for the other person, they still want to date you. Like, they still want to go out together, go to the restaurant, cook, decorate the house, like, just do things, not, not just be this, like, okay, we're this boring sort of married couple now and we're just gonna stay home and, and sort of take our foot off the gas. So you might notice a da kind of taking their foot off the gas and just being like, okay, we live together, so now let's just, you know.

A (23:34)

Stay, take it easy. Yeah.

B (23:36)

And this feels good to them. It feels really good. And it feels like, wow, I feel really comfortable with my partner and can just be myself and stay home. But as you know, as we know, the partner, and especially like an FA who might crave novelty and change and things like that, they might be like, what is going on here? Like, my partner doesn't really care much anymore to like, try. Like, they really seem like they're not trying, but it's actually due more to like, they're just comfort comfortable. And this feels really, really comfortable to them.

A (24:06)

Yeah, a hundred percent. Honestly, it's another habits thing. Like, I, I just, I think that one of the keys to long term success in a relationship, not always, but like, especially when you have different attachment styles or things like that, I think for sure is to like always date your partner. You kind of set that in passing. I'm a big believer in that. And like, I get it, like, life gets busy. Maybe you don't get to go on a date every single weekend. Or sometimes people in a place where they're financially strapped and they can't afford to like go out for dinner every weekend. Right. That can be really taxing on the wallet. But like, it doesn't have to be in that form. Like, it doesn't have to be like, oh, you go on a date and it always has to be to some kind of like, fancy restaurant or something. It can be like you go on a date and you have a picnic together outside, or you go for like a, a nice drive and you sit out and you watch the sunset together, like intentional activities that you're doing as a date. And I think that like, you know, sometimes people have two young kids and all these things and I understand there's a very small percentage of people who like, actually have two young kids, two jobs. They're just like surviving, putting one foot in front of the other. They don't have their parents around to come help, like, watch the kids. But I would say for the vast majority of people, if you can, like, have your parents watch your, your kids for one evening a week or something, just so, or even one evening biweekly, but have an intentional time to do those things because to your point, dismissive avoidance, get so settled in and they feel great about that. But if you or have another attachment style, you're probably going to experience the opposite. Especially like fearful, avoid, insecure people, anxious. They all like really care to. To do stuff sometimes. And so you keep getting to know your partner. And I think that it's really important to do that, to keep asking intentional questions to connect. Because I look back on who I was 10 years ago versus now, and I've changed so much as a person and, you know, everybody will, you know, so. So the more that we're able to be consistent about, like asking questions, growing together with somebody rather than growing apart is huge. But then also if you're the attachment style, living with a dismissive avoidant, and you're like, wait, why are they complacent? They're not like, making an effort to do all these things, just recognizing that a lot of the time it's not from a lack of care, it's truly because dismissive avoidance, one of the ways that they receive love, just like a fearful avoidant may receive love through like, novelty or exploration. And that could be one of their things. Dismissive avoidance. They are one of their, like, really big ways of giving and receiving love is they associate with safety and comfort. And so of course you're going to see that. But again, making up for those discrepancies by just having healthy habits in advance makes all of the difference.

B (26:33)

Exactly. And like days, I believe we're like, we're pretty open to that stuff. We probably won't suggest it, but if your partner is like, hey, like, you know, we've stayed in a home for a couple of weeks now, like, really, really craving to go out, go to a restaurant, or like really craving a go for a hike or do something outside with you generally, you know, the DA should be like, okay, yeah, let's do it. Like I said, they might not suggest it, but just having you, like, if you're an fa, especially like, don't feel like, oh, I can't speak up here, like, it seems like the tone is, like, we were the home bodies now, and we got to stay home or whatnot. But speak up for your needs. Like, if that's something you. You want desire, then say it. And a lot of times, I know I was grateful for kind of being pushed to, like, go do stuff. Like, sometimes they're like, I don't want to leave the house, or, like, I'm comfortable here. But then when you go out to do something, they push you to go to a party or go to a social event. You're like, hey, I'm really glad I did that. So, you know, it's good for both to try to do those things. And just another cool couple. Cool ideas is, like, find a new recipe and, like, cook together in the house, play some music, you know, prep the food, make a meal together. That's something kind of fun and interactive. You can have, like, games nights with your partner, Trivial Pursuit or chess. And then you mentioned before in the last topic, like, doing a sport with a partner. Me and my current partner, we play ultimate Frisbee together. We're on this kind of. There's, like, this social group of guys and girls that play ultimate Frisbee on the beach, and it is so much fun. And, like, we. We just love doing it together. It's, like, twice a week we get to play it together, and then after, we always go for, like, a coconut water and talk about the game and stuff like that. So for me, I've never really had that before. I always had my physical activity separate. Like, I go to the gym by myself and, like, play sports with the boys and that kind of stuff. But this is the first time I've had, like, a sport together with a partner, and it's so fulfilling. Like, we both, like, love it, like, crazy. And I know you and Graham, like, playing pickleball.

A (28:31)

Is it, like, obsessed with pickleball? We played tennis for years, too, but then we, like, got into a pickleball community of people, and then, like, that's kind of the main thing now. But it's so fun. Like, it's. Yeah, like, the best thing ever, for sure.

B (28:43)

That's awesome.

A (28:43)

And I'm a big believer in that. And I think, like, really? And I. I know I'm, like, harping on this. This is, like, my theme for everything we're gonna answer is, like, I am a person. I just kind of, like, realized this when we were talking about this out loud, that I'm, like, constantly just optimizing my life in advance. I'm, like, such an optimizer of everything. I really want everything, like, optimized. And I think just early on into the relationship, before Graham and I, like, learn to communicate better or like, you know, in the first, like, year or so that we were dating, I just knew in advance that my life was really busy. And I was like, hey, I like to go out once a week and do a date. And like, I don't care what it is. It could be that we, like, go for a drive and sit outside and watch this. It could be literally anything. It could be, like, have some kind of intentional activity that we do together. We're doing that every week. That's like a non negotiable for me. And I just had that really early. And then we would do something else, like staying in once a week together. And then we had our busy lives. And I think, like, just having the conversations ahead of time as habits. And of course it didn't mean that, like, if one week we couldn't go on a date because something happened, like someone's traveling or there was a work pressure or something, oh my gosh, the sky is falling. But like, having the intent to do that on the regular basis and that be your baseline, you just never have to worry about those things later on. Like, you're not like, oh, is the partner suggesting. Am I suggesting who's planning, who's doing what? Like, all of that potential for chaos is like, optimized in advance. Everything's done and out of the way, and it just allows for like, smooth sailing. And I think, like, having optimized relationship habits just like, literally makes all the difference.

B (30:11)

Exactly. And like we said, it just goes on kind of autopilot. Yeah, it's not. This is not being done. And sometimes, you know, one person's not happy and just kind of going along with it. And the further you go into autopilot and one person's not happy, it just gets more and more built up resentment. And then, you know, I can't be with this person. But it's like, oh, you guys didn't really try to like, plan or like, error. What, what the issue was early on, right?

A (30:35)

Yeah.

B (30:35)

So definitely have to bring that up early on. And you know, once one person says it, the other person has a right to be like, okay, well, if that's your sort of non negotiable, then. My non negotiable is once a week we, I don't know, clean the, clean the deck together or something like that. You know, the person in the relationship who wants to clean more so it's, you know, you set that tone early and that's just, okay. This is the way things are going to be and. And just go from there. So.

A (31:03)

Yeah.

B (31:03)

Awesome, awesome, awesome. So the next one's a little bit of, like, just a perspective so people understand what their DA is going through and they feel like, what's going on here? Like, I thought this was going to be a happy family. We're going to play house, like me, my partner, and the dog. Like, it's going to be, you know, really, really fun. But you might feel the DA Is digressing and be. Be like, feel like they're moving backwards, but just know, like, their feelings haven't changed. It's just their fear of expectation and for closeness and that they're going to feel trapped. That really starts to, like, come up for them. And they're setting the tone of, like, not having too much expectation for themselves. Because if they start out too hot, where they're like, oh, yeah, like, you.

A (31:47)

Know, let's do everything together all the time.

B (31:49)

Everything together all the time. All you want. You like to play spotless. I don't usually do that, but let's have the place spotless all the time. So, like, there's this fear that if they start out too hot, they're going to be like, I cannot keep this. Keep this up. This is just.

A (32:03)

They're going to burn themselves out.

B (32:04)

Burn out like, 1 million percent. So you don't want to set the bar too high and unrealistic. And I think in the beginning of DA you might notice that they're just digressing and being like. Like we were talking about maybe hiding a lot more. Like, it doesn't feel like this happy house family, like, we just moved in, the relationship's leveling up. You just might have those feelings of, like, my partner is kind of not hanging out with me as much, or like, we're not doing things together all the time. Like, what's going on here? So just know. I just want listeners to know that this is sort of a transition period where a DA is just really nervous about losing autonomy. Really nervous that they're gonna have to be someone that they're not. And then at some point their partner is gonna be like, you know, this is not cool. Like, I don't wanna be here anymore.

A (32:48)

So just, yeah, a hundred percent. And there's like, this, I think, dismissive avoidance, deep care, this deep fear that once I'm really seen as I am, that maybe somebody will not like me for it. And so I Think there's that that comes up for sure, that defectiveness, fear and concern. But honestly, more than anything else, I think that one of the big things themes is that like, and I, I, I'm gonna say this for every point, but like having the conversations in advance makes all the difference. Because think about it, right? If, if somebody's fearing being trapped, it's because they have, they don't have things mapped out. If somebody's fearing all the expectations. Cause they haven't had a conversation about expectations. So when those things get aired and it's like, hey, what are your expectations? And moving in, what are your expectations? And how much time we spend together? What are your expectations for how much time we need to ourselves? What are your expectations for like what our lifestyle looks like together? Like, the more you have conversations in advance, the less you have to deal with it the hard way later. And like wherever anybody listening is feeling a sense of distress or concern about those things, just like talking it out, having clarity around it just like helps everybody feel like the dust is settled. And I think back to like when I was fearful, avoidant and leaning dismissive. And I lived with somebody years and years ago. I was young, but you know, I lived with somebody for a few years. I remember like feeling trapped sometimes, like feeling this like, oh my gosh, like trapped. And looking back on that, I had no awareness of like attachment style stuff then. I had learned about it in like first year university, but just like you learn about just temperaments of children kind of thing. And I remember just like feeling trapped. And I had, I just been able to have a conversation that said, hey, I need X amount of time to myself. And here's what that looks like on these days. And this is the time I need to recharge. It would have just solved for all of that so far in advance and made it so much less stressful. And instead I guess like, if I'm really looking back on that time, I also felt trapped. This is more FA because I felt that there was this expectation of me to spend all this time with a person. So I like avoided what I actually needed and kind of ignored and repressed it in favor of that. And then I would feel trapped and frustrated and like those are just solvable throughout problems through like communication and boundaries.

B (34:58)

100%, yeah. And it's, it's okay. Like can you, I'm, I'm thinking of a scenario like if, if, let's say we were out socializing and with a group or whatever, I might come home and feel like My social battery got burnt a little bit and my partner wants to spend time together now. I might just say, hey, listen, I just need like, like 20 minutes to go into the other room and just sort of like decompress. And then like, let's, let's watch a movie after. Let's spend some time after. And totally fine with that. Like, if, if I were to just like, come home and like, go into the other room, like, shut the door, then like, of course her is going to be like, what's going on here? But the fact you explain, like, hey, I just, I just feel a little bit drained from like, all that socializing. Just I need like 20, 30 minutes just to like, kind of come back to myself and gain my energy. And then let's, let's hang out. And of course she's totally fine with it. Like, you're explaining what's going on in your internal reality and sharing and then saying like, let's hang out later. Like, there's nothing wrong with that. And I can't see a partner getting like, really upset or.

A (36:02)

And if somebody's getting really upset about it, like, you might. That's probably not the right partner for somebody. Like, that's not a good situation. So that. And that's where, like, I think it goes back to this idea, like a lot of dismissive avoidance. And it's part of their healing to communicate and open up. And you're sharing so many good examples of that, like, but so many dismissive wounds because they usually don't know how to communicate or open up about those things. They just do the actions. They just go into the other room and close the door. And then the other person's like, oh, what? Like, are you upset with me? And they take. Take it personally. And it's like all of these things and you can just be a little bit vulnerable and share like, this is how I am, this is what I need. This is what's going on. And give a little bit of context.

B (36:37)

Yes.

A (36:38)

Avoidance will come to realize that, like, hey, I can actually have the things that I need and have a relationship simultaneously. Those things can coexist. Whereas I think a lot of dismissive avoidance. Think it's one or the other, it's my needs or the relationship. And it makes it feel like it's at this really intense, scary precipice of like, me or you, I have to pick one. And it's like, that's the furthest thing from the truth. But it will always come to feel like that if you don't Know how to communicate. Because if you don't communicate, you don't give the context. The dismissive avoidant does things like go into the other room and shut the door without saying anything. It causes friction. The dismissive avoidant then proceeds to interpret that friction as, like, oh, this means that, like, you're not okay with me having time to myself. See, it is me or you. And it becomes this vicious cycle that is all cut through. Through so easily with just a little bit of vulnerability and communication.

B (37:26)

Exactly. So, yeah, if the D and communicate, they'll definitely take space. They'll. They'll take their space. They're just known for doing that. And the funny thing is, like, they think the action is sort of the communication and they're trying to avoid a conflict. But really by doing that, you're sort of leaving this thing to be interpreted as like, oh, this. My partner doesn't want to be with me, or my partner doesn't enjoy me in their house. Like, I feel like I'm not welcome here. So it's not fair. Like, just, you gotta let your partner know the sport. And I remember too, like, spending time in the second bedroom, and, you know, I might've been there for a couple hours, and then my partner's like, hey, like, I'm needing cuddles. Like, can. Can we cuddle for a little bit? And I might've been like, oh, I just need another, like, half an hour. I'm just, you know, finishing something. Or just. Just give me 20 more minutes, and I. And I promise, let's cuddle. And she's like, okay, cool. So it's just like, there's these. You're not. Like, I need this right now. Like, stop what you're doing. But she's letting me know, hey, I'm feeling a little raw right now. I need some cuddles. Can you. Can you come? And I was like, yeah, for sure. Like, I'll be there in 15 minutes or whatnot. Obviously, she's going through, like, a crisis that really upset. I'm gonna go right away, of course. But I mean, she's just saying, like, oh, I wouldn't mind a little cuddle. And it's like.

A (38:40)

And that's beautiful. And see, that's like, such, like, secure communication, too, because, like, when you look at it, right, I remember I did a summer school course back in high school, like, way back. And it's like, you get your whole credit, like, fit into, like, one year. I did it. So I had an extra spare in 12th grade. And I remember you you do it, and it's like a month or something. And it's like your whole semester's in one month. And it's like this rapid learning period. I feel like living together is like that. Like, you have the conversations. There's like that rapid learning. There's a learning curve at the beginning. You're gonna. You have to figure each other out and, like, that degree of things. But then once you do and you have those conversations, then it's just easy. Then somebody comes, hey, let's hang out. I could use a cuddle for. For a little bit. Oh, yeah, I'd love to. Just give me like 15 more minutes. And like, then it's just these natural, organic, like, conversations. Oh, I'm just finishing up something. I'll come in half an hour. You might even learn that the person doesn't like to be put on the spot. So you say, hey, you know, in the next hour or so, I'd like a cuddle. And. And then you give that context. So the more that's just, like, aired ahead of time and you just learn to communicate that way. That becomes the norm of communicating. And then suddenly it's like, so much easier to. To go through all of that with somebody. You don't even have to, like, you just know those things in advance, and it normalizes the communication of needs. And that's like the crux of when you start having this really secure relationship. Because if you can communicate that openly and then you habituate that over time, and then it's just normal to communicate that way. That's where people start to see, like, okay, we're. We're in this, like, secure relationship. We feel comfortable, vulnerable. We're not personalizing each other's behavior. We share our needs, we share our feelings. We are mindful and respectful of each other. Like, these are such beautiful things that people can learn on their journey.

B (40:18)

Yeah, it's so, like, comforting to know, like, there's no punishment for just stating I need in the moment. Like, I'm not feeling good right now. I don't. I can't do that for you. Or, like, I'm not. I don't know, whatever it is, like.

A (40:33)

Just need a little bit of time still to myself or whatever it is. Yeah.

B (40:37)

Like you said, it's not like, it's not black and white. It's like, if you don't do this, there's going to be a punishment. But also, you know, you want to lean on your partner if they're going through something, you're going to be Extra attentive and, you know, try to make them feel better if something's going on in the moment. But generally the point is, like, you're allowed to say what you need and if you're not available to do something right at that moment, you can say that as well. It's not, it shouldn't be like a huge sticking point.

A (41:05)

Yeah, and like for context too. Like, obviously Graham and I have been together for a very long time now, like a decade. But in the early days we were learning some of this stuff together and kind of going through it together. Like, if there was a time where I was like, oh my gosh, I urgently need your help with something. Like, there's been many times from like, he's really good with like technology and it's not my strong suit. And there's been times where like work things. I'm like, I need you to drop everything and help me. Like, it's urgent, something's about to start or whatever. And like, of course, like somebody's going to do it if there's an urgent thing. If there's a crisis, like, they can drop everything and be there. But just knowing that if you have like a desire to hang out or do something and they're in the middle of doing something, just to like leave it open ended. Hey, in the next little bit, can we ABC and just have that flexibility and have that room for both people and then it gets into a space where it's like, it just, you get into a nice ebb and flow and it just feels natural. And once you reach the place where like communicating your needs openly feels really normal and natural and you've kind of learned each other that way after moving in together, that's when you're like, for all intents and purposes, you're operating as a secure couple.

B (42:04)

Yeah, yeah, exactly. I find myself like less lazy to do stuff for my partner as well now. I don't know, I'm not sure what that's all about.

A (42:12)

That's probably because you're like, you have more bandwidth and you're. Yeah, I. You see that in every business avoidant as they come into being fully secure.

B (42:20)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like if she, if she does want to clean something, I'm like, yeah, no big deal. Like I can do that. Whereas if before in past relationships they would be like so resistant, like, yeah, I'll clean it later, like, leave me alone and then like forget about it or.

A (42:35)

But it makes sense, right? Because if you in past relationships are always operating in a deficit because you couldn't communicate your needs. Like, you're constantly losing yourself. Then when somebody says, hey, now, do this thing too, you're like, I'm already losing myself. And there's resistance as a boundary to try to take yourself back. But when you start feeling like you can just communicate your needs, carve out your space for yourself, you don't feel like you lose yourself in the abyss of, like, somebody else and being in a relationship. Then by the time somebody asks you for something, you're actually operating with bandwidth rather than like, oh, my gosh, I'm losing myself. My bandwidth's always shrunken. And then when somebody asks me for something, it's like my last bandwidth that I'm giving up.

B (43:11)

Oh, that's the worst. When you're just empty and then somebody's asking for more, you're like, no, like somebody. Somebody saved me. Yeah, for sure. Okay, that's good. All right. So number five, if and when conflict does ramp up, you might notice the DA will retreat even more. DA's, obviously, we know, don't want to have conflict. They're very conflict avoidant. And especially in their home environment, like their home environment when they were living alone, that, that was their safe space where they can come home, be themselves, mask off, play video games, do whatever they want. But if conflicts come up, they're like, it's really hard because they're probably like, oh, man, I had this so good before. Like, why did I do this? Before was so peaceful. Nobody was bothering me to do this or that. Like, it was just awes. And then now, you know, somebody's here and they're having these conflicts. So for the da, they might think, oh, this is not, this is not working. This is not meant to be. But again, we're saying it again, but this is the theme of the episode. You need to. You need to communicate. You need to. When these conflicts come up, you have to deal with them as they come up because the more you sort of sweep them under the carpet, they're just going to build, build, build. And then it's almost hard to, like, solve all these conflicts because there's just so many going on at once. And then of course you're thinking, yeah, like there's. This is pointless. Like, there's no way out of this. There's just too many disagreements and things that we just don't agree on. And, you know, this is, this is futile. So, yeah, just know that you might see a day when you move in. It's, tell me if I'm wrong, but it Speeds it up to, like, the power struggle phase sometimes, because you are seeing these sort of new things that you might not have seen before in a person. And it can be a little bit like, oh, what's going on here? And, like your summer school analogy, it's like, a lot of things happening at once. So it's just by nature, you're probably gonna have some disagreements. But again, that doesn't mean, like, the relationship is flawed. It just means, okay, we have some new things that are here all at once that we need to. To work through.

A (45:11)

So 100. And I think if you could graph it, it would be like, you date somebody, things get more serious, you move in, and you enter into the power struggle stage stage, most likely. And then it, like, you could graph the conflict going up because there's more things to talk about. It's rapid learning, right? Like, the conflict's gonna go up. But when you learn to do conflict, well, conflict does not mean a fight. It does not mean an argument. It means, hey, I noticed there's a little bit of tension around the house, like with the dishes, and. And, you know, I noticed that you're a little more, like, interested in things always being clean right away. I kind of leave things till the end of the day. I don't want us to have tension around it. Let's hash it out. What's, like, our middle ground, and you just talk about it like a normal conversation. And when you can do these things and start communicating and getting used to it, because it's not always easy to communicate right away. You build the skill of communication. Like, if you ride a bike, you're gonna maybe fall or be a little shaky at the beginning, but you build the skill, you get good at it, and all of a sudden, you could graph the conflict coming way down in the relationship, because. And the way I describe to people coming out of the power struggle stage is that it's literally marked by, like, all the things that you had to talk about initially, you don't have to talk about anymore because you've already figured it out. And so now it's like you go from this position of maybe you had to talk about the. The laundry or the dishes or whatever comes up, and, like, the amount of time or space people need together or alone. But then you have these habits around it. The date night, the whatever it is, and now these things that have the potential to cause conflict, that they don't exist. You've already hashed them out in advance. You don't even have to go there and what you'll see is if you could graph it with people, you'd see it like, the conflict goes up. They people hash things out, the conflict goes way down, and you get way more equipped to do conflict. And then the amount of conversations you have to have about relationship oriented things goes way down. And so you settle into this beautiful space where, like, you live with somebody. It feels really natural, it feels really harmonious. You've settled into it and it feels just as comfortable as if you were alone because you can fully have yourself. And if anything, it gets easier. Like, I think of sometimes, like, you know, for example, for right now, like, Graham and I have a dog and he's going through, like, a brain cancer. And there's been times the past, like, week, because he's been going through a particularly tricky phase where I'm like, thank God I am not doing this alone. Thank God. And sometimes when you have two people living together, when you really live together harmoniously, and then when something hard happens, it really offsets how tricky it is to do things alone. I think there's a huge net benefit even for dismissive avoidance. Who could be listening, thinking, yeah, but you have to put this work in. Yeah, but it saves you work, especially when you have like, a family or, or pets or just like, you know, work challenges or things that you've got going on. To lean on somebody too, who has different skill sets or a different point of view and you can talk things out through, it actually creates a lot more ease in your life in general. And yes, there's that initial hump to get over where you have to learn and adjust and get through all of that. But once you do, it's a really beautiful thing.

B (48:09)

Yeah, just. Just add to that. Like, I definitely had my reservations when I had someone moving into my place, but. And the first little while was a little rocky, and I was thinking, oh, my gosh, like, is this gonna work now that, you know, fast forward? I don't know how many months into it now, but she's made this place so much better. Like, way, way better. And like, at first, this leads to our next point. We'll weave this in here. But like, das don't really compromise. Well. So, like, this is more. So let's say somebody's moving into the DA's place. If you're, like, trying to change a lot of stuff, they might take that as like you're trying to change them. So again, they're like you're losing your autonomy that you're wanting them to be this person that they're not. They're defective, that they need to be changed. So I remember, like I said in the beginning, my partner was like, trying to do all this stuff in my place, like putting up curtains and, like, floor mats and like, all this stuff. And at first I was like, what the heck? Like, why is she doing all this stuff to my, like, house? Like, I didn't ask for anything to be changed or whatever, but, like, she's gotten this place. So, like, it's just so convenient, like, for me, like, storage and stuff. I just threw stuff in the cabinets and like, I didn't have that much order. And she likes to put things in all these, like, nice little bins and like, holders and, and jars and stuff like that. And yeah, the house is just so much, like, it flows so much better and it makes my life like, a hundred times more easy. And I didn't realize it, you know what I mean? So I could have at first just resisted. Resisted and be like, get out of my house. This is. You're trying to change me. This isn't cool. But because we sort of wrote out that rough period and things settled in, like, it's, it's. It's the benefit. It's such a. Such a benefit to, to have her here.

A (49:57)

It's so interesting because, like, from. From one person side, it's like, oh, you're trying to change me. But the. From the other person's side, they're usually trying to give love. Like, they're like, oh, let me show you that I can come in and support, do these things and make your life better and, like, think of you and improve your life. And usually a lot of times that, like, other attachment cells come in and give love is through that. And it's their way of, like, trying to be supportive or, like, acts of service or kind things. And so, like, a lot of times it's so funny too, how one person could interpret it as like, you're trying to change me. And the other person's like, no, I'm trying to give you love. And it's like, just totally different, like, perceptions of things. But yeah, that's a really, really important share.

B (50:35)

Yeah, it's so funny. It almost makes me laugh. Like, probably how I had the place before was like, I don't know, if people came over, they'd be like, okay, like, this place is all right, but, you know, you need some work. But just having someone who, like, cares enough, you know, about you and then themselves, they want to live in a nice environment. Like, yeah, it was Just nice. It was all around nice.

A (50:56)

So really nice. Grandma. Whenever we've moved into a house, Graham's always like, okay, you do all the decorating. I'll help assemble all the furniture. That's like the, the. Because I like to have everything set up a certain way and then. Yeah, yeah, it's a good balance.

B (51:12)

Good balance. That's awesome. So, okay, again, this is more. So if you're moving into the DA's place, you might notice that they're a little protective of their stuff. So. Okay, self consideration. Let's. Let's tackle this first. Actually, like, DAs obviously are very self considerate. Like their whole lives and especially in childhood, they had to be independent. They had to sort of serve themselves first. So you might notice that your DA is like, not super considerate in the beginning. And I remember this in, like in the past, I was definitely like this. Like, it would just fly over my head to like, let's say I'm cooking food. Sometimes I'd make food for myself and just like eat it. Or let's say, like, I'm. I'm out and I come home with takeout food. I. I forgot to like, get some for my partner, so. Because I thought like, oh, she, she ate before. Like, she'll be fine. So there was just so many things that I was doing where I wasn't considering. Like, hey, like, you're. You're in a partnership now. Like, you have to be very considerate. The other person. Like, you have to follow them and be like, hey, I'm getting food. Would you like something? Can I get something for you? So now, now it's just like a very common habit where it's like, hey, I'm out at the store. Do you need anything? Hey, I'm out at wherever. Do you want me to bring something home? Like, it's just autopilot now to just consider that, like, there's another human in your life and you have to be very mindful of that. Like, but before it was literally like, I would, I would get a lot of. I'd take a lot of flack for that. Rightfully so. Because I kind of chuffle about it now. Like, it's sort of embarrassing to think how I, how I used to be, but like, yeah, get a lot of flack. Whereas, like, like, hey, like, what the heck? Like, yeah, like, do you not. Do you know, did you forget about me? Like, what's going on here? So, yeah, just. You might notice a few behaviors that take a while to, To. To realize that there's Someone else to be considered through the whole day and night. Now that, that you weren't considering before. So seems obvious. But for da sometimes that's a, that's a very big shift. Yeah.

A (53:18)

And I think if you're in a position where you have somebody and you're dating them, like, if they never consider you and you don't see any improvement. Okay. Like that you want a relationship. A healthy, secure relationship is somebody who considers it isn't perfect. Somebody's not always going to remember every little minute detail, but, like, who overall is like, thoughtful and considerate. Those are important qualities. But what you should see is if a dismissive avoidant ends up in a situation where they are doing or they're not doing very much of that, communicate, tell the person, hey, if I go for takeout, I would ask if you want anything and same thing. Or if you're going to cook dinner, like, let's cook together, or ask me if I want anything. And just having conversations to allow for that and letting the person know that that, that matters to you or those are your needs. And not in a confrontational way, not in a blaming way, not in a yelling at somebody way, but just in a, hey, do you mind next time being mindful about ABC and, and this means a lot to me, and here's why, and here's how I try to do this for you. And just that way we can consider each other better. And just allowing yourself to take up space in the relationship would move the needle with anybody who's, who's wanting to be in a relationship with you. If somebody is in a place where they, like, absolutely can't be more mindful or thoughtful about that, that's a different conversation. But usually these are very easy, very solvable problems through just a little bit of transparency and open communication about your own needs. If you're somebody dating a dismissive avoidant, and then that allows for things to really build momentum in a healthy way and move more in that secure direction. So it's a really good example.

B (54:45)

Yeah. Just to double down on something you said, they're like, if you're coming at it in like a shaming way. Yeah. When it's like the mirror is put on you, the day feels like, oh, my God, I am like such a piece of crap. Like, holy, I can't believe, you know, I did that. Or I can't believe I didn't think about you. There, there can be a lot of shame. You know what I mean? But just know, like, it's, it's part of the part of their programming and part of their sort of hyper independence. And it's not because they're actively like, hey, I'm gonna do this just for myself and completely forget about you. It's just sort of like an autopilot, subconscious program to like, decades of their own conditioning.

A (55:22)

That's like, how. And nobody was really doing that for them or modeling. That's them. So it's just like an unknown. Like, how could you know if you grew up in a household where, like, that's what you're taught, that's who your parents operate, your family operates, like, that's all of your condition. And of course somebody's gonna be coming from that place. But it doesn't mean that that person isn't ready or willing or capable of just, you know, moving the needle and taking a step towards that. And as long as that person feels like they get to keep the relationship with themselves in the process, you're generally going to see a lot of momentum there.

B (55:48)

Exactly. That's our list. Just to add a couple more things we talk about. Don't stop dating each other. Always air out your expectations. Learn communication skills. So conflict doesn't have to be the downfall of relationships. So if you haven't learned any, like, sort of conflict, communication and how to solve conflict, like, that's something definitely you want to look into and learn. Both sides should do healing on their core wounds and triggers because a lot of times, as we know, certain. You're taking certain behaviors or something that someone does, your core wound might get touched. And then, you know, you living with.

A (56:24)

Somebody is a great way to have your core wounds triggered more often. There's an old story. There's an old saying. It's like, I love this. It's one of my favorite quotes ever. It's by Rumi. He says, if I'm irritated by every rub, how will I ever be polished? And it's this idea that, like, hey, when, when people irritate you, it's also polishing you. It's helping you see, like, what's unhealed, what's coming up for you and what still exists. And so it's. It's really worthwhile to be able to notice those things and do the rewiring, reconditioning work. But truly, like, that is I. I'm a personal big believer that relationships are not just for love and connection. They're also for growth. They're also for you being able to, like, see what's going on inside of yourself. They'll. They'll Push on everything that's not healed and bring it to the surface for you to heal.

B (57:06)

And for, for like DAs especially. So. Okay, I heard this quote too. I don't know if it's a quote or sort of like a saying, but like your wounds, your core wounds are acquired in a relationship. So that's where they're going to be healed is in a relationship. It's a different relation of mine, parents and, and kids versus your adult romantic relationships. But that's where a lot of the work is done. Because you can like go off to a mountain and meditate and, and isolate yourself and probably make yourself feel pretty darn amazing. But then when you come back down to the mountain and you have to relate with other humans, that's when your triggers all come back all at once.

A (57:45)

And truly they do. You know, I had a couple clients who were monks over the years and the thing that shocked me in both occasions was how much they were. They seemed so at peace when they were in a monastery and off doing stuff. And then when they came back to real life, it was almost like they were extra hyper triggered by everything because they had done some nervous system work. But then these core wounds will come up, especially in relationships the most and it would be like, oh, you don't necessarily heal. I think it's beautiful to like unplug. I think you can do some deep healing from a nervous system perspective and somatic perspective, but you have to do the rewiring work. Otherwise those triggers are still going to come up and you're going to feel extra sensitive to them because you've just been away from anything that triggers you. So now to go back in, it kind of feels like this rude awakening for people.

B (58:28)

Sure, sure. And then lastly, I wanted to share a comment on one of the videos to do with this topic one of the users just suggested. And this seems very obvious but like, try living with someone a few days at a time before moving in so it's not this huge shock. So if you're dating someone, been together for a year or two or whatever, start you know, two days a week.

A (58:49)

Long weekends or something.

B (58:51)

Long weekends, like just go on one week trips. Because I can imagine there's nothing worse of like not knowing anything about how your partner sort of lives their, their day to day life and then making that step and moving in and just being like, oh my gosh, like I can't believe they do this or I.

A (59:07)

Can'T believe the overwhelm factor.

B (59:09)

Yeah. And then you can, you can work out sort of A few things in advance.

A (59:14)

It's like you get to like, titrate out your habits together. Conversations.

B (59:18)

Yeah. Yeah. Although I did hear someone say that you shouldn't do a trial run. You know, if you get married or commit someone, then just move in together and then whatever problems sort of come up, that that's your work and you're supposed to be doing that together. However, I don't know, I like the idea of having a trial run and having little, you know, vacations and sleepovers, multi day sleepovers, just to sort of test the waters and see how things go. So I thought that was a good user suggestion.

A (59:46)

I like that. I really like that idea and I think it can go either way. Like, people can be just so committed and so in it. It's just gonna be a little bit more of a, an abrupt dynamic a little bit faster. But I like the idea of like titrating and kind of testing the. The grounds a little bit first and getting comfortable and then you sort of see where you're at.

B (60:02)

Exactly.

A (60:03)

Amazing stuff. Well, thank you so much, Mike. This is a really fun episode. Thank you to all of our listeners. Please know that you can check us out on itunes, Spotify, anywhere that you listen to podcasts. Mike's social media information is down below if you want to learn more about Mike. Thanks everybody for stopping by. I hope you follow us. I hope you listen to this podcast more and more and we'll see you next time.

B (60:23)

See you next time.

A (60:25)

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