The Hidden Cost of Avoiding Conflict for Avoidants

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Hidden Cost of Avoiding Conflict for Avoidants

Podcast: The Thais Gibson Podcast
Host: Thais Gibson
Guests: Steve Nestor and Lisa Sorensen
Episode Date: June 8, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the nuanced dynamics of conflict avoidance in relationships, particularly from the perspective of avoidant attachment styles. Thais Gibson guides a powerful conversation with Steve and Lisa, unpacking how subtle patterns of conflict avoidance can erode intimacy and connection over time. Together, they reflect on past experiences, share personal insights, and examine the emotional undercurrents and consequences of avoiding difficult conversations.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Conflict Avoidance Patterns and Early Experiences

• Reflecting on the Past ([00:00–02:00])
  • Thais invites both Steve and Lisa to recall specific conflicts from their relationship that may have been avoided or left unresolved.
• Steve’s Example: He shares an early marriage experience where Lisa wanted to keep her last name, which he found mildly upsetting but chose not to discuss.
  • Steve: “I just let it go. And it wasn't a big thing, but now... she wants to be Lisa Nestor. The value of that for me... is so special.” ([00:33])
• Avoidant Tendency: Steve acknowledges that at the time, he didn’t recognize it as a conflict—only in hindsight did he see the subtle distancing that resulted.

2. Mechanics of Avoidant Coping

• Thais on Avoidance ([02:00–04:13])
  • Thais: “It's very common for an avoidant to feel something, kind of stuff it down—and do it very quickly... You almost don't even fully consciously recognize your own patterns.” ([02:00])
  • Thais observes how avoidance often happens swiftly and subconsciously, leading to emotional walls and gradual distancing rather than open confrontation.
• Lisa’s Observations: She could sense Steve’s upset through nonverbal cues like body language, despite his silence.
  • Lisa: “I could read him, whether body language or... walking away from me... but he wouldn't say anything. So I was kind of like, oh, I want to have a fight with you or something.” ([04:13])

3. Emotional Impact of Avoidance

• Lisa’s Experience: Repeated distancing provokes feelings of dismissal and insignificance.
  • Lisa: “There's no value in sharing these emotions... It feels kind of dismissive.” ([05:10])
  • She describes retreating and isolating herself when Steve walks away or avoids discussion.
    • Lisa: “Maybe you can answer better than me... I isolate. Typically just isolate. Then I'd... let the steam roll a little bit and build.” ([06:54])

4. Underlying Fears and Meaning

• Thais Probes Steve’s Avoidance ([07:59–10:16])
  • Thais investigates the motives behind Steve’s avoidance—protection, lack of skills, or fear.
    • Steve: “It's not worth the argument. Not knowing... how to have that conversation or approach and talk about the conflict. So it's a lack of knowledge...” ([07:59])
    • Thais: “Kind of a learned helplessness a little bit.” ([08:25])
    • Steve: “It's easier just to let it go.” ([08:27])
  • Steve admits fear of being judged as “not good enough” and a desire to maintain a positive image in Lisa’s eyes.
    • Steve: “I want her to see me as the strong man... just not knowing how to broach that subject.” ([09:04])
  • On the flipside, Lisa often interprets his silence as him not caring.
    • Lisa: “When you feel something's important and needs a discussion and then it doesn't happen, then it kind of feels like you're not being validated.” ([10:26])

5. The Cost of Avoidance for Both Partners

• Mutual Drift and Missed Opportunities
  • Avoidant responses lead both partners to withdraw further, compounding feelings of isolation and missed intimacy.
  • Thais highlights that unresolved conflict actually reduces emotional closeness, counter to the avoidant’s intention to ‘preserve peace.’
    • Thais: “If there's this automatic distancing that happens even just subtly but consistently over time from things you never said, it probably hurts your need for intimacy even more.” ([03:14])

6. Attempts at Vulnerability and Frustrated Communication

• Steve Attempts to Connect ([11:49–13:15])
  • Steve describes moments when he tried to encourage Lisa to open up, but when met with her own reticence, he would give up.
    • Steve: “From time to time I would try to get inside her shell... but also I would get, you know, I don’t really want to share about that. So after a few times of that, you know, I kind of gave up.” ([11:49])
  • Their mutual protective strategies—Steve’s withdrawal, Lisa’s retreat—end up reinforcing distance.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• Thais: “It's very common for an avoidant to feel something, kind of stuff it down—and do it very quickly... you almost don't even fully consciously recognize your own patterns.” ([02:00])
• Lisa: “I could read him... but he wouldn't say anything. So I was kind of like, oh, I want to have a fight with you or something.” ([04:13])
• Steve: “It's not worth the argument. Not knowing... how to have that conversation or approach and talk about the conflict. So it's a lack of knowledge...” ([07:59])
• Steve: “I want her to see me as the strong man, the strong lover man... just not knowing how to approach, broach that subject.” ([09:04])
• Thais: “If there's this automatic distancing that happens even just subtly but consistently over time from things you never said, it probably hurts your need for intimacy even more.” ([03:14])
• Lisa: “When you feel something's important and needs a discussion and then it doesn't happen, then it kind of feels like you're not being validated, you're not heard, not listened to.” ([10:26])

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Notable Timestamps

• [00:33] – Steve’s example of an avoided conflict (name change in marriage)
• [02:00] – Thais explains typical avoidant processing of conflicts
• [04:13] – Lisa details her experience of Steve’s withdrawal during conflict
• [05:10] – Lisa discusses feeling dismissed and the emotional cost
• [06:54] – Lisa describes her own isolating response to conflict
• [07:59] – Steve articulates fear and lack of conflict resolution skills
• [09:04] – Steve admits to underlying self-worth fears
• [10:26] – Lisa expresses the deeper impact of avoidance on validation
• [11:49] – Steve shares an attempt to connect and breaking down after repeated setbacks

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Flow and Tone

The episode is empathetic, gently probing, and deeply personal. Thais holds a safe, therapeutic space, inviting candid reflection. Both Steve and Lisa speak honestly about their vulnerabilities and the protective instincts that led them to avoid difficult conversations, with Thais contextualizing their experiences in terms of attachment theory and emotional growth.

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Summary Takeaway

Avoiding conflict may feel like a way to maintain harmony, but it can quietly erode intimacy and deepen emotional distance. Both partners experience unmet needs and a lack of validation, perpetuating a cycle of isolation. Through open dialogue and self-inquiry, as modeled in this episode, couples can start to break free from entrenched patterns and build greater emotional closeness by facing conflict with curiosity and compassion.

Transcript

[A]

Let's begin by talking a little bit about a time there was conflict. And. And we're going to start. We'll go into actually working through the. The entire conflict itself. But I want to look back at times that there was conflict avoidance. And I want to map out together first how you would each respond in that situation, and we'll really sort of play it out. So I don't know if there's a conflict that comes to mind from, you know, Maybe years ago, five years ago, 10 years ago, you know, quite a ways back. Let's look at, like that typical pattern together, and I want to see all the ways that you would cope and then we'll go into working through the conflicts instead.

[B]

Well, I thought of one here at the beginning because when we got married, she is Lisa Sorensen and still is, and I'm Steve Nestor. So she wanted to keep the family name. And so I was a little bit maybe annoyed with that. But I. Okay, I can see the value in that and why she wants to do that. And so I just let it go. And it wasn't a big thing, but now it's moving way forward since we did a marriage intensive, she wants to be Lisa Nestor. And so the. The value of that for me, just that she wants to do that is so special for me. And so the conflict back then, I didn't think it was conflict, but as I think about looking back, you felt a certain way. There was.

[A]

Yeah, excellent.

[B]

And why, you know, why. Why don't you want to take my name? But we didn't have that much of a discussion about it because I just

[A]

accept both feel and then kind of drift.

[B]

And I would accept that. Okay, she's got a reason for this, and it's a legitimate reason. And.

[A]

Yeah, okay. And one of the things that's so interesting is coming from, you know, a path of being more avoidant and still working through some of those edges. It's very common for an avoidant to feel something, kind of stuff it down and do it very quickly, I might add. So you almost don't even fully consciously recognize your own patterns and then. Or your own feelings. And then, you know, what you don't recognize that follows is that then, because you're feeling a certain way and you built that invisible wall with those feelings, then you drift and. And so I'm curious, just looking back at that moment, do you remember what you did? Did you sort of drift away a little bit or just kind of not go around that topic?

[B]

I basically accepted it and I accepted her Reasoning behind it. But I didn't think it was worth bringing up. I don't think we had too much discussion about it. I didn't think it was worth bringing up to have an argument about her.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. And what's really beautiful, and I'm curious if this resonates for you, is one thing that you did a really good job of doing in our discussion was sharing his inner world openly. Like, oh, this is what came up for me. This is what I'm feeling or needing. And really getting into that, because I was saying, you having been fearful, avoidant fearful ones want to deeply know their partner. They want to understand what you're feeling. They want to know your inner world. And they see that as a connection to intimacy emotionally. Like, oh, I know you. And I think maybe from your perspective, you come a little bit from a place of, I don't want to have an argument. And that caused distancing between us. But if there's this automatic distancing that happens even just subtly but consistently over time from things you never said, it probably hurts your need for intimacy even more. Like, you'd almost rather know what he's feeling around things and be able to talk them through and hash them out than just see distance and not really know why. Is that fair?

[C]

Oh, yeah. I mean, I can. There were so many times when I could. I could read him, whether body language or the, you know, the eyes, you know, kind of going up and making a look or something, or walking away from me, like, whether he was a little angry at me or. Or upset with me or. But he wouldn't say anything. He'd just walk away. So I was kind of like, oh, I want to have a fight with you or something.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

But then I would retreat too, because it's like, well, it's obviously not worth it. You know, I mean, we just go separate ways.

[A]

And. And when you don't, when you can tell that Steve is feeling a certain way, like a little frustrated, a little bit of tension, and he walks away, what comes up for you? What do you feel in those moments? Because I think this will be important to give Steve some context.

[C]

Well, it's. It's almost like there's. There's no value in sharing these emotion or the feeling because either it's not as important or, you know, giving me the feedback of what you're feeling and then what mine might be a result of it, or, you know, it's like a communication that isn't dealt with, and then it feels kind of like dismissive. So it's like, okay, well, you know, it's not.

[A]

And you're probably there trying to avoid conflict by dismissing it. Like, okay, I just don't want to have a problem between us, so I'll just walk away. But when you get dismissed, what do you tend to feel or make that mean about you?

[C]

Yeah, it's. I'm not important enough to, you know, to talk, to work. Work through whatever it is or share the feeling or the emotion, to try to work through a situation. So it's like, you know, another little door that's been closed and. And not developing. Because we know that conflict really. I mean, we know now, but the conflict will lead to more intimacy and. And that's what, you know, sometimes you want that, but don't recognize at the moment that it's, you know, the best thing to be doing.

[A]

Yes. And it's not always easy. And when you make that situation mean I'm not important, I feel dismissed. I want to talk, but I feel like, okay, I can't. How do you then behave? What's your theme there?

[C]

Maybe you can answer that better than me. I don't. I isolate. Yeah, typically, just isolate. Then I'd, you know, go outside and work in the garden or do something that, you know, let the steam roll a little bit and build a little bit, and then, you know, compartmentalize, and I'm gonna leave that there, and I'm gonna bring it up later, and it's just gonna blow up and.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. And waiting because it's not resolved. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. It's very human, and I. I'm very interested, you know, and we're just sort of noticing the themes first before we dig into them. But when you avoid conflict, I would love to hear your relationship to it. Is it about you feeling like Lisa's not important to you, or is it that you feel like. I don't want to have a fight and distance from her because I care about her, and I don't want to have something worse between us. Like, what is your relationship in those moments where you do feel frustrated and you walk away? Is it a not knowing what to do instead or.

[B]

Yeah, it's. It's not worth the argument. Not knowing. Not having the. The learned how to have that conversation or approach and talk about the conflict. So it's a lack of knowledge and

[A]

kind of a learned helplessness a little bit.

[B]

Right. And then, like I say, it's just. It's easier just to let it go,

[A]

seem to put it to the Side and maybe in the short term.

[B]

Yeah, exactly, yeah.

[C]

And.

[A]

And when you say it's. It's not worth having the conversation, is that a reflection of you feeling like Lisa's not. Not worth having the conversation with, or what are you afraid happens when you say it's not worth having to have the conflict? Clearly, to me, you're seeing the conflict as having a negative consequence, and that's why you're trying to avoid it. So what are you afraid happens if you do have the conflict?

[B]

I think part of it would be me recognizing that, you know, I'm not good enough or I'm failing in certain aspect, and I don't want to feel that way. I want her to see me as the strong man, the strong lover man. And again, just not knowing how to approach, broach that subject in that argument.

[A]

So I hear, like, all those times over the years that you avoided conflict was maybe to protect Lisa's perception of you a little bit.

[B]

That's good.

[A]

And to, you know, also not feel hurt because. Because there's that not good enough wound that you maybe carry around a little bit. And there's a part of wanting to not feel that way and. And then also just feeling like if I do, I don't know how I would do it. Exactly. And so those three things kind of come together and it leads to one only outcome that's open to you, which is to move away from it. Does that resonate?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah. And what would you usually think instead you would go into, well, he doesn't even care about me enough to have the conflict. And you sort of saw it through that lens instead, I imagine.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

That it's, you know, when you feel something's important and needs a discussion and then it doesn't happen, then it kind of feels like you're not being validated, you're not heard, not listened to. And I mean, he's always been very good. Like, if I would come home from work and, you know, I'd gab on about, like, the stress of the day or whatever. He's a good listener about that. But then it, it would be different if there was a conflict that related to us and a disagreement and, and that's where you kind of feel, again, that dismissiveness of, of, you know, it's, you know, you're not facing what needs to be talked about because you don't want to have a heated argument.

[A]

And so let's actually start here. I was going to go into specific conflicts, but actually want to talk about just the idea that, that. That there's a walking away from conflict. And then I know that causes you to. To turn away as well. Let's just work on this first piece. So is there a recent time that this happened where there was a walking away, a moving away from a conflict that you can think of? It doesn't even have to be that recent. It can be just anything that comes to mind.

[B]

The first thing that popped to my mind was from time to time I would try to get inside her shell and to her to tell me how she felt about something. And I obviously wasn't very good at it, but also I would get, you know, I don't really want to share about that. So I wasn't able to penetrate that barrier. So after a few times of that, you know, I kind of gave up. Well, she's not going to share, you know, I'm not going to bother to ask anymore.

[A]

And do you have a moment where you decided to give up, or do you have a moment that you tried that comes to mind, like a very specific one.

[B]

I remember sitting at the kitchen table and we're sitting there in Royal Palm, and you were at the one hand, I was sitting next to you, and. And she was obviously upset about something. I don't remember what. But then. And I didn't know what I had done. And so, you know, what did I do? Or can you tell me, you know, what are you feeling? You're irritated about something, you know, and basically she said she didn't want to talk about it.

[A]

You're about to see me start finding exactly the painful meaning that Steve has given to situations. Because even dismissive avoidance, who may not feel as intensely flustered or emotional over things, they are also giving different situations in their lives meaning as well. And they're just a little bit quicker to shut down how they feel and move in a different direction to cope a lot more efficiently.