The Thais Gibson Podcast

Episode: The MUST-KNOW Core Wounds of A FEARFUL AVOIDANT for True Healing
Date: December 12, 2025
Host: Thais Gibson
Co-host: Mike Desio

Main Theme

This episode offers an in-depth exploration of the core wounds that drive the Fearful Avoidant (FA) attachment style, illustrating how these wounds manifest in relationships, self-concept, and daily behaviors. Thais and Mike share personal insights and lived experiences, clarify common misconceptions, and provide actionable steps for identifying and beginning to heal these wounds. The aim is to empower listeners—whether they're FAs, partners, or friends—to understand, relate to, and reprogram these driving patterns for healthier, more secure relationships.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Understanding Attachment Styles & Prevalence (00:01–05:03)

• Background: Thais introduces herself as a former FA and Mike as formerly Dismissive Avoidant (DA). They started the podcast to unpack attachment style experiences and the journey toward secure attachment.
• Stats & Skepticism: Only about 5% of the population is estimated to be FA per scientific research, but Thais and Mike note this seems low based on personal experience and self-selection bias in personal growth communities.
  • Quote: "A lot of fearful avoidants, their anxious side is so much more loud that you think you're anxious at first, but then when you look more deeply... you push people away a ton." — Thais (03:56)
• Attachment style confusion: Many confuse FA and anxious attachment due to overlapping anxious patterns, but core wounds and behaviors differ, especially the push-pull dynamic.

2. The Major Core Wounds of Fearful Avoidants

A. Fear of Betrayal (05:03–15:42)

• Root Causes:
  • FAs grow up in unpredictable, chaotic, or unsafe relational environments.
  • Hyper-vigilance develops—a constant need to read micro-expressions and anticipate mood shifts or betrayals.
    • Quote: "Fearful avoidants are human lie detectors because they clock everything. They see incongruencies... It's like, why is the story different?" — Thais (06:47)
• Manifestation in Relationships:
  • Extreme importance placed on consistency, congruency, follow-through, and context in communication.
  • Broken promises or small incongruities can trigger disproportionate distress and distrust.
• Practical Example: Mike describes frustration with partners’ need for planning but later empathizing with the underlying wound.
  • Quote: "Once you find out your partner's triggers, be a good human and really try to work with those, even if they don't affect you at all." — Mike (09:07)
• For FAs: High sensitivity to partners whose words and actions don’t match. A missed promise can spiral into existential fears about future reliability.
  • Quote: "When it actually hits a wound, it feels excruciating, like you're suffering more." — Thais (14:07)

B. "I Am Bad" / Shame Wound (17:14–24:02)

• Root Causes:
  • Childhood environments where anger/criticism was frequently directed at the child for small mistakes.
  • Leads to a deep fear of being perceived as inherently bad or flawed.
• Behavioral Patterns:
  • Chronic over-explaining, hyper-defensiveness, and excessive apologizing.
  • Difficulty forgiving themselves; expect others to assume ill intent.
    • Quote: "If you're saying sorry that much, you must feel kind of bad on the inside." — Mike (19:05)
  • Quote: "If you were met with a lot of an environment that was unforgiving, you're very unforgiving of yourself." — Thais (20:59)

C. "I Am Unworthy" (24:02–33:43)

• Root Causes:
  • Conditional love based on achievement or caretaking.
  • Pressure to earn love by "doing," not by simply existing.
• Manifestation:
  • Over-giving, plagued by guilt when receiving, taking on too much, and difficulty asking for help.
  • High-achieving, often at the expense of rest or ease.
    • Quote: "They're always having to like shoot really high and do more and accomplish more... never seem comfortable resting" — Mike (27:20)
  • Leads to resentment towards partners but a struggle to voice needs.
    • Quote: "I used to think my partners loved to give... but then after a while, you realize everybody has a boiling point." — Mike (29:54)

D. Powerlessness / Helplessness (33:43–40:14)

• Root Causes:
  • Early life situations with out-of-control circumstances and lack of agency.
• Behavioral Patterns:
  • Over-functioning, avoidance of vulnerability, reluctance to rely on others.
  • Extreme discomfort with commitments that require dependency or trusting others.
  • Quote: "One of the worst fears... is having to actually survive by relying on other people for help." — Thais (34:26)
• Interesting Paradox:
  • External strength (e.g., "never showing weakness") masks deep inner helplessness.
    • Quote: "She could have broken her leg and she wouldn't tell anybody about it... to me she was just such a powerful woman, but also would rather die than inconvenience anyone." — Mike (35:33)

E. Fear of Being Trapped & Fear of Commitment (38:53–42:32)

• Root Causes:
  • Fear of losing autonomy and becoming powerless.
• Manifestation:
  • Reluctance to make deeper relationship commitments (moving in, marriage, shared finances, etc.)
  • Often oscillating between wanting closeness and needing distance.

F. Fear of Abandonment & "I Am Alone" (42:49–50:37)

• Abandonment:
  • Strong reaction to perceived withdrawal or threat of being left.
  • Can lead to either clinging or abruptly shutting down/pushing away.
• Aloneness:
  • FAs often had to take on responsibilities precociously and thus learned to rely only on themselves.
  • Ironically, FAs can perpetuate isolation by refusing help or pushing others away even when help is offered imperfectly.
    • Quote: "Even when he does the dishes, he doesn't care to do them properly. See, it's always on me." — Thais (46:07)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Thais on Trust for FAs:
  "Consistency creates trust. Consideration... congruency, exactly like you were saying, like what you say and what you do have to line up... and then context." (12:05)

• Mike on Growing Understanding:
  "If you think they're just doing something to be difficult... you're going to kind of shrug it off. But when you understand... the trauma aspect... you're going to be way more sensitive to it." (09:07)

• Thais on Self-Sabotage in Receiving Support:
  "You create these self-fulfilling prophecies where exactly the thing you're trying to avoid, you end up creating for yourself." (47:34)

• Mike on the "Helper" FA:
  "I thought my partners love to give... But after a while, you realize everyone has a boiling point." (29:54)

• On Healing: "Whatever we're so afraid of—if you always criticize somebody for doing the dishes, instead of being like... let's make a plan—you recreate the cycle." — Thais (48:15)

Practical Healing Tools & Exercises

Behavioral Reprogramming Exercise (50:57–1:00:00)

• Step 1: Identify your dominant core wound (e.g., betrayal, abandonment, helpless).
• Step 2: Rate how much you keep yourself in cycles of this wound (scale 1–10).
• Step 3: List concrete ways you maintain this cycle in your life (e.g., not expressing needs, overworking, people-pleasing).
• Step 4: In a third column, write what you’ll do differently—small daily actions to embody the opposite of the wound.
  • Example for betrayal: Practice saying no when something is a true no for you instead of betraying your own needs.
• Step 5: Repeat a new, healing behavior every day for 21 days to fire and wire new patterns.
  • Quote: "If we repeat patterns for 21 days... we’re highly likely to build neural pathways strong enough to stick." — Thais (51:55)

Timestamps for Notable Segments

• 00:01 – Introduction, purpose of episode
• 02:36 – Stats on attachment types; confusion around FA prevalence
• 05:03 – Core Wound 1: Betrayal
• 17:14 – Core Wound 2: "I Am Bad" / Shame
• 24:02 – Core Wound 3: "I Am Unworthy"
• 33:43 – Core Wound 4: Powerlessness / Helplessness
• 38:53 – FA and commitment/trapped
• 42:49 – Core Wounds: Abandonment and Aloneness
• 47:54 – Example of FA self-sabotage with support
• 50:57 – Healing/rewiring exercise explained
• 58:13 – Example applied to betrayal wound
• 59:21 – Talk on self-trust and congruency
• 60:21–63:35 – Q&A: Addressing wounds with partners, sharing resources

Takeaways

• FAs are marked by a unique combination of longing for closeness but profound fear of betrayal, abandonment, and loss of autonomy.
• Their core wounds often lead to self-sabotaging cycles—overgiving, not asking for help, hyper-vigilance, and oscillation between pushing partners away and clinging.
• Understanding and compassion from partners (and self-directed healing) are essential.
• Concrete, repeated behavioral changes (rooted in core wound awareness) are powerful for rewiring old patterns.
• Open, curiosity-based dialogue about wounds with partners is recommended, but with sensitivity and patience—especially for avoidant partners.

Closing Note

The episode concludes with audience Q&A, personal anecdotes, and encouragement to engage in daily behavioral reprogramming to consciously shift out of core wound cycles.

“If we really want to be free from these wounds, it starts with awareness—a willingness to do the daily work, and the courage to be vulnerable both with ourselves and the people closest to us.” – Thais (paraphrased closing)

For more tools and resources on core wounds and attachment, listeners are invited to explore the Personal Development School and Thais’ courses, or take the free attachment style quiz mentioned toward the end of the episode.