Podcast Summary: The Thais Gibson Podcast

Episode: What Happens When a Dismissive Avoidant or Fearful Avoidant Shuts You Out
Date: November 19, 2025
Host: Thais Gibson (joined by Kati Morton and Mike Dazio)

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into what happens when a Dismissive Avoidant (DA) or Fearful Avoidant (FA) attachment style individual shuts someone out. Through a candid and practical discussion, the hosts—drawing from personal experience—unpack why these responses occur, how best to approach and support avoidantly attached partners, and the steps both parties can take for healthier communication. Fans of attachment theory will find validation, tangible advice, and a blend of humor and empathy as the hosts navigate the emotional tension of being “shut out.”

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Understanding Attachments and Stonewalling (00:00–07:25)

• Individuals interpret and respond to others through the lens of their own wounds and attachment needs.
• Dismissive Avoidants and Fearful Avoidants often protect themselves by withdrawing or shutting down confrontation.
• “When you know that this person's way of protecting themselves is to push away, then you can be mindful of that and do things to slowly move back in that direction…” – Kati Morton (00:00)

2. Personal Experiences With Avoidance (03:19–07:25)

• Both Kati (former FA) and Mike (former DA) share personal stories of shutting down in young adulthood and how it felt from the inside.
• Kati reflects: “There's a zero percent chance that we're going to pretend like everything's fine. I can tell something's fine. Like, I really address it.” (03:19)
• Avoidance can sometimes be strategic or subconscious—used to feel seen or to protect oneself from further vulnerability.
• Key realization: Withholding communication keeps one isolated and relationships stagnant.

3. Step-by-Step Guide: What to Do When Avoidants Withdraw (07:42–46:44)

Step 1: React With Empathy, Not Pressure (07:42–13:50)

• Direct confrontation often backfires with avoidants; recognize their fear or shame underneath the shutdown.
• Instead, hold space and offer understanding.
• Notable moment: “We're not going to make headway by being pushy. Could do the opposite… Just sign up trying to empathize with the person and understanding.” – Mike Dazio (07:42)
• Example: When Kati’s husband needed to talk, just listening and asking gentle questions allowed him to process better than offering advice.

Step 2: Consider Their Processing Style (14:07–16:50)

• People need different forms of support; identify patterns and history.
• “Try to evaluate how they process things according to their needs… some people just want to talk about it, some want space.” – Mike Dazio (16:14)
• Stories of DA/FA disliking “solutions” or touch during distress—often, space is the safest comfort.

Step 3: Avoid Projection and Personalization (16:50–19:29)

• We project our needs ("Let’s talk it out now!") onto others, which causes more withdrawal.
• Instead, ask about their needs and avoid assuming yours are the same.
• Kati: “We see people as we are instead of as they are.…when you know that this person's way of protecting themselves is to push away, then you can be mindful of that…” (16:50)

Step 4: Use a Hybrid Approach—Time and Reassurance (18:41–25:16)

• “Never go to bed angry” isn’t universal; a hybrid approach helps DAs/partners who need space but also provides certainty and reassurance for anxious partners.
• Script: “Hey, I care about you. I am going to come back and resolve this. I really need time to think about it. Why don't we talk about it tomorrow?” – Kati Morton (19:29)
• Even brief, clear reassurance calms anxiety and avoids escalation.

Step 5: Approach With Sensitivity and Support (25:16–32:48)

• “White gloves” approach: let them know you’re available, but don’t pressure.
• Example: Sending supportive messages without expecting a reply can still be seen and valued.
• For romantic relationships, clear communication around timelines is essential: “Let’s try to talk by the end of tomorrow—it’ll only take 15, 20 minutes.”

Step 6: Communicate Needs Clearly—And Take Care of Your Own (32:48–42:48)

• Don’t be vague about what you require; ask directly (e.g., “I’m feeling anxious, I need a little reassurance”).
• Avoid blaming language; specificity helps DAs respond empathetically.
• Set and honor your boundaries—if their need for distance lasts too long, it’s okay to ask for compromise.
• “If someone does express a need or needs, it doesn't mean we have to, like, bend over backwards…” – Mike Dazio (41:06)

Step 7: Healthy Conflict—Not Avoidance (42:48–41:06)

• Learning to talk through disagreements healthily is a pivotal relationship skill.
• “How you do conflict matters. If you get good at doing conflict in a healthy way, conflict actually is a beautiful thing.” – Kati Morton (40:06)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “It's just so funny when we don't understand these things, how much chaos can ensue.” – Kati Morton (18:20)
• “Dismissive avoidance can feel criticized... Really, when you ask questions, you’re empowering the person to come up with their own solutions.” – Mike Dazio (13:50)
• “Letting somebody know what you need. Like, hey, I'm not feeling good right now, what I just really need is someone to…hold space for me…” – Mike Dazio (11:00)
• “If you don't get good at communicating your needs, it's you keeping yourself in isolation. It's you keeping people at arm's lengths. So it is worth doing that work.” – Kati Morton (37:14)
• “In the absence of information, there’s just too much room for somebody to think the worst.” – Mike Dazio (35:09)

Timestamps for Critical Segments

• 00:00 – Seeing others through our own wounds; the roots of avoidant withdrawal
• 03:19 – Personal stories from Kati and Mike on being an FA/DA
• 07:42 – The impact of pressure vs. empathy; introduction to six steps
• 11:00 – Communicating support needs directly
• 16:50 – Pitfalls of projecting your own support style onto others
• 19:29 – Why reassurance and timelines matter; “hybrid” approach for couples
• 25:16 – Sensitively supporting avoidant partners; boundaries in romantic vs. platonic contexts
• 29:02 – How to suggest connection and conversation without overwhelming DAs
• 32:48 – The importance of clarity; how to approach and avoid blame
• 37:14 – Practicing vulnerability: communicating your needs is its own transformation
• 41:06 – Redefining conflict as an opportunity, not a threat

Tone and Takeaways

The discussion is candid, supportive, and filled with empathy, blending clinical insight with real-life stories. Both hosts advocate for mutual understanding and communication, highlighting that small adjustments in approach can transform relationships with avoidant partners. You’ll walk away with not only a stepwise methodology but an invitation to practice self-awareness, vulnerability, and patience—essentials for all healthy connections.

For further learning:

• Explore more resources at the Personal Development School
• Follow the hosts' social links (provided in episode notes)

This summary captures the essence, main points, and actionable guidance from the podcast episode, providing a clear roadmap for listeners seeking growth in attachment and relationships.