Why Anxious Attachment Chooses Emotionally Unavailable People

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Thais Gibson Podcast

Episode: Why Anxious Attachment Chooses Emotionally Unavailable People

Date: July 25, 2026
Host: Thais Gibson
Guest: David

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Overview

In this engaging, insight-rich episode, Thais Gibson works with guest David to deeply explore why individuals with anxious attachment styles frequently find themselves drawn to emotionally unavailable partners. Through illuminating conversation and practical exercises, Thais uncovers the root causes of these patterns, how childhood experiences shape adult intimacy dynamics, and most importantly, shares actionable strategies for rewiring subconscious programming to create healthier, more reciprocal relationships. The conversation is candid, empowering, and often vulnerable, with David’s personal journey offering relatable examples for listeners seeking deeper self-understanding and authentic connection.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Mistaken Beliefs About Dating and Attachment Patterns

(00:00–02:54)

• Thais opens by distinguishing the typical approach of anxiously attached individuals (“I want to win you over by becoming what you like”) from the healthy mindset of securely attached daters (“I am vetting if you’re a good fit for me too”).
  • Quote:

    “...you go really one sided and like, I'm going to win you over instead of I'm going to vet to see if you're a good fit for me.”
    — Thais Gibson [00:38]

• David shares his tendency to avoid traditional dating, preferring connections that begin as friendships, as it feels safer and comes with less performance anxiety.
• The core issue is the difficulty in transitioning from “David the friend” to “David the romantic partner,” and the need to let himself be seen and express needs in relationships.

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2. Family Dynamics, Early Experiences, and the Formation of Core Wounds

(03:03–06:25)

• David describes a childhood marked by emotionally distant, strict parents (limited physical affection, love shown through provision, high expectations).
• He also navigated the pressures of coming out as gay, leading to further hiding and self-protective behaviors.
  • Quote:

    “There was a lot of hiding and like, really just holding things in and keeping things to myself.”
    — David [03:59]

• Responsibility as the eldest sibling reinforced his “caretaker” role, which now shows up in his romantic interactions.

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3. The Cycle of Repetition: Why Familiar = Attractive

(06:26–09:41)

• Thais highlights how we subconsciously recreate childhood emotional dynamics in adult life, not simply because of parental imprinting, but because we perpetuate these patterns within ourselves.
• Attraction is based on subconscious comfort zones; what’s familiar feels safe, even if it’s unfulfilling or unhealthy.

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4. Self-Reflection: How Patterns Manifest in Adult Relationships

(09:42–14:37)

• David scores himself highly for attracting emotionally unavailable partners and for falling into caretaker roles (8–9/10).
• Thais introduces the concept of the “relationship shadow”:
  • We attract people who match how we currently treat ourselves.
  • Self-abandonment is a critical driver—by neglecting his own needs and boundaries to please others, David mirrors the emotional unavailability he experienced in childhood.
  • Quote:

    “You will always be attracted to emotionally unavailable people as long as you are emotionally unavailable to yourself.”
    — Thais Gibson [11:39]

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5. Uncovering and Addressing Core Wounds

(14:38–21:25)

• The “caretaker” pattern partly meets David’s need for contribution, but is also fueled by a core fear:
  • If he stops caretaking, he fears being unwanted and ultimately abandoned.
  • Quote:

    “If I don't caretake...they'll have no need for me anymore...I won't be useful. And in that sense I'll be abandoned”
    — David [16:07]

• Thais guides David to recognize that the “abandonment wound” sits at the root of these behaviors and perpetuates his attraction to emotionally unavailable partners.

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6. Rewiring Subconscious Beliefs: Practical Exercise

(21:26–31:05)

• Thais introduces a three-step exercise for “core wound reprogramming”:
  1. Identify the core limiting belief (e.g., “I will be abandoned”) and its positive opposite (e.g., “I am worthy of connection”).
  2. List genuine reasons why the positive belief is true (focus on who you are, not what you do for others).
  3. Record and listen to this list daily for 21 days in a highly suggestible state (morning/evening), using emotion and visualization to “re-fire and re-wire” neural pathways.
     - Quote:

     “Affirmations are just of the conscious mind… what we actually have to do is get to our subconscious, which speaks in emotions and imagery.”
     — Thais Gibson [21:32]

• David opens up about the discomfort and vulnerability in self-validating, which reveals the depth of the wound and the opportunity for healing.
• Together, they list David’s positive traits: trustworthy, honest, open to growth, disciplined, passionate, authentic, and reliable.

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7. Auditing Self-Abandonment Across Life Areas

(31:06–38:32)

• Thais methodically reviews different life domains (work, finances, mental, emotional, friendships) to spot where David might still self-abandon.
• David demonstrates progress in most areas but recognizes that in romantic situations, he still shrinks, silences himself, and struggles to be authentic and communicate his needs.

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8. Romantic Relationships: The Missing Piece

(38:33–44:16)

• David admits that in romantic contexts, his urge to perform and avoid “being too much” leads him to self-silence and lose authenticity.
• Thais explains this is the key zone where self-abandonment remains unhealed, reinforcing anxious-avoidant cycles.

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9. Exposure Work and “Titrating” Authenticity

(44:17–47:29)

• Thais recommends exposure work: “titrating” sharing more of himself and his needs during dating, starting in small, manageable ways.
  • For example, sharing what he’s truly looking for or expressing appreciation in ways that reveal his desires and standards.
  • Quote:

    “You're gonna do it in really, really small doses. So it's not too confronting for your nervous system.”
    — Thais Gibson [68:41]

• Importance of reciprocal vetting: David is encouraged to assess if someone is truly a good fit for him, rather than just trying to “win” them over.

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10. The Root Cause of Repeated Patterns

(47:30–62:46)

• Thais uncovers the full circle: fears of abandonment and rejection lead to self-abandonment, which leads David to shrink and mask his needs, perpetuating relationships with emotionally unavailable, non-reciprocal people.
  • Quote:

    “So although my conscious mind says I want the emotionally available, deep, empathetic, curious person... my subconscious says we want what’s familiar... who treats me with abandonment and rejection. Because that's familiar.”
    — Thais Gibson [61:22]

• The cycle can only be broken by healing, not just consciously choosing better, but by rewiring subconscious core wounds and practicing being authentically seen.

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11. Letting Go: Why It’s So Hard & The “Magical Kitchen” Analogy

(50:21–61:11)

• Thais shares an illustrative story from The Mastery of Love:
  • When we lack “self-sourced” love and fulfillment (the magical kitchen), we accept crumbs (unfulfilling, conditional love) from others.
  • We struggle to let go of low-nurturance relationships because we're starving for needs that only we can truly meet within ourselves.
  • Quote:

    “We’re willing to put up with lots of red flags, and we also have a really hard time letting things go when we’re in a position where we’re starving for needs that we don’t know how to meet or self-source.”
    — Thais Gibson [52:50]

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12. Motivation for Change: Costs & Benefits of Keeping Old Wounds

(62:47–65:57)

• Thais helps David identify the costs of an unhealed abandonment/rejection wound:
  • Inability to find the deep connection he craves.
  • Cycles of pain, confusion, exhaustion, and resentment—towards both himself and others.
  • Always settling for “breadcrumbs” of affection.
  • Quote:

    “I'm preventing myself from finding a deeper connection that I want.”
    — David [63:18] “Those are the breeding grounds of resentment. That's the recipe.”
    — Thais Gibson [64:25]

• The benefit of healing: feeling whole, peaceful, authentically worthy, and finding relationships that are truly reciprocal and deep, while remaining grounded and true to himself.

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13. Recap & Next Steps

(66:08–70:31)

• Healing requires:
  1. Identifying and actively “rewiring” core wounds of abandonment and rejection (21-day daily practice).
  2. Practicing visibility and self-expression in romantic contexts (gradually allowing oneself to be seen).
  3. Ongoing accountability with weekly self-reflection as dating resumes.
  • Quote:

    “The reason that I keep getting attracted to emotionally unavailable people is because I'm first emotionally unavailable to myself and I shrink myself in dating, so no wonder that's attractive. It's my subconscious comfort zone.”
    — Thais Gibson [70:37]

• David affirms his understanding and motivation to put these insights into action, concluding on a hopeful, empowered note.

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Memorable Quotes & Timestamps

• "You will always be attracted to emotionally unavailable people as long as you are emotionally unavailable to yourself."
  — Thais Gibson [11:39]

• "If I don't caretake...they'll have no need for me anymore...I won't be useful. And in that sense I'll be abandoned."
  — David [16:07]

• "Affirmations are just of the conscious mind… what we actually have to do is get to our subconscious, which speaks in emotions and imagery."
  — Thais Gibson [21:32]

• "I feel like sometimes when we're choosing these types of people, like, is there something to prove?"
  — David [14:37]

• “We’re willing to put up with lots of red flags, and we also have a really hard time letting things go when we’re in a position where we’re starving for needs that we don’t know how to meet or self-source.”
  — Thais Gibson [52:50]

• "I'm preventing myself from finding a deeper connection that I want."
  — David [63:18]

• "Those are the breeding grounds of resentment. That's the recipe."
  — Thais Gibson [64:25]

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Notable Moments

• David candidly naming his struggle: “I seem to connect with people that are emotionally unavailable and have a hard time letting people go.” [02:54]
• Thais guiding an in-depth exercise on rewiring the “abandonment wound” using neuroscience-based techniques. [21:26–31:05]
• The “Magical Kitchen” analogy powerfully illustrating why we accept less than we deserve in love. [51:15–53:40]
• Raw admissions around self-silencing and the impact of shrinking oneself in romantic contexts. [39:03–41:24]

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Actionable Steps for Listeners

• Audit your relationships and spot where you may be self-abandoning.
• List your authentic, intrinsic qualities aside from what you “do” for others; record and re-listen for 21 days, using imagination and feeling.
• Shift dating from “winning over” to mutual vetting—let yourself be seen and express gentle honesty about your own values and needs, even in small ways.
• If letting go of someone feels impossible, investigate which unmet need keeps you clinging; work on meeting that need within yourself.
• Use regular self-reflective check-ins as you explore connections, especially romantic ones, to stay true to your boundaries and authenticity.

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a valuable resource for anyone seeking to break free from patterns of attracting unavailable partners and create more rewarding, secure relationships. With compassion, scientific rigor, and step-by-step practical advice, Thais Gibson demonstrates how true transformation begins with self-awareness and consistent, intentional self-reprogramming. David’s vulnerability and growth illuminate the path for listeners to do the same.

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Transcript

[Thais Gibson]

This is something anxiously attached people do romantically a lot is they think that dating equals I'm gonna sit down on a date, I'm gonna learn what I can about you and what you like and I'm gonna be that for you and win you over. And that's me. Being a successful dater and being successful at dating is not bad. Being successful at dating is literally. And what secure people do so well is they're like, I know what I'm looking for. I'm gonna sit down, I'm gonna ask them meaningful questions so that I can see if this person's a good fit for me as much as I'm sharing myself. And they can see if I'm a good fit for them. And it's a reciprocity thing. And I get the sense that you go really one sided and like, I'm going to win you over instead of I'm going to vet to see if you're a good fit for me.

[David]

Yeah. I think there's also a little key thing that's important here is I tend not to actually go on dates either. Like, I don't do dating apps or dates.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah.

[David]

So I like to meet people naturally through like, you know, community and places that I know. So there is already a base of them knowing me a little bit. So that's why I'm like sometimes shy away from saying those things right away. Cause the expectation of them knowing me is already kind of there. And so I like, I kind of like a part of me feels like I like relationships where it's built on a friendship first.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah.

[David]

Because it feels safer to me.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah.

[David]

And then it's just the part of getting from that point to the other point. You know what I mean? That's also a hard part. Or communicate like it's.

[Thais Gibson]

It's difficult because there's a difference for you. And I think this really strongly. You show up really well in these other areas. Security. So if you're saying, okay, meet people in community and friendship, you actually sound like you're very secure friendships.

[David]

Yes.

[Thais Gibson]

So there's a difference now between letting yourself be known and seen.

[David]

Right.

[Thais Gibson]

As a friend.

[David]

Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

And then moving from there and thinking I have to keep up this image as David the friend versus being known and seen as David the romantic partner.

[David]

Right.

[Thais Gibson]

And I have to share my needs and let you see me in that light.

[David]

Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

And I get the sense that that's my park.

[David]

It's.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah.

[David]

Tucked away, shrunken down, hidden away, put in a box.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah. Welcome to the breakthrough With Thais Gibson Podcast. I'm so excited to share with you our episode today with David, who struggles with something that I think a lot of people often struggle with, which is this idea that they keep choosing and attracting to and investing in emotionally unavailable people and even have a hard time letting them go. And so what you're going to see here today as we break down why this is happening, why somebody keeps choosing emotionally unavailable people, what it actually says about your own patterns, and you'll see these themes play out really strongly in David's life and then most importantly, what core wounds they are connected to, how to rewire those core wounds so that it changes fundamentally your programming and your choices in dating going forward and what we can do to overcome this fear of being seen and really connecting in a deeper way where we can finally have reciprocity. So if this is something that you struggle with at home, this is gonna be a great episode to watch, to understand yourself through David's experience and to see what major takeaways you have and learn about your throughout this process.

[David]

Hi, my name is David. I'm from Toronto and I'm here to explore why I seem to connect with people that are emotionally unavailable and having a hard time letting people go.

[Thais Gibson]

Thank you so much for being here. Really excited to have you and to chat with you. And I would love if you can just tell our listeners a little bit first about your backstory, your history, what it was like being you growing up, and maybe where some of these patterns first came from. If there's any insights or themes that you noticed there.

[David]

Okay. Uh, I mean, growing up, I mean, I was part of an Asian family, so very strict parents. Not a lot of, like, emotional, like, not a lot of hugging or kissing or telling them they love you. They would show love in ways like maybe buying you things or providing with for you and them being, like, really cautious about how, you know you're. What you were doing and being worried about that would be how they would, like, show their care. And so maybe that, like, kind of translated a lot to my future relationships, perhaps. Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

And when you grew up, was there any time, you know, at 10 years old or in early childhood or high school that really stood out to you as being a difficult or turbulent time in your life?

[David]

Well, I mean, I'm also, I mean, I. I grew up gay and I. I was, you know, afraid to come out to my parents, so there was a lot of hiding and like, really just holding things in and keeping things to myself. And the energy with my parents, they Were sometimes there, they were sometimes not there. So, you know, I had to really do a lot. I was very independent. I was the big brother. I have a little sister, and I was sometimes the one. The caretaker or the one leading the family sometimes. So.

[Thais Gibson]

Okay, so a lot of the responsibility.

[David]

A lot of responsibility. And it still is on me, but a little bit less, though.

[Thais Gibson]

Okay. And what. Did everything go smoothly when you did come out to your parents and talk?

[David]

No, it did not. I had moved out, and I was prepared for what was gonna happen, but everything came full circle. Like, I came back to run the business that now my dad used to own. It was a print shop originally, and he's the, like, original printing presses. And then I came in, I learned graphic design, and I modernized the business, and I knew it was my path, and that's where I was meant to be. And my relationship with my parents have grown from there, and they respect, like, my relationships and my partners now. So everything's good.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah. That's so nice.

[David]

It took a while to get there, but we got there. Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

And it sounds like you both, like, you and your parents both were committed to showing up for each other, and it sounds like you must have loved each other.

[David]

I think they understand what love really is, and I think as they get older, they weren't like they had set goals or, like, projections onto you what you should be. And I think they realize now, as long as we're happy, then that's all that matters.

[Thais Gibson]

That's so important. And it's not easy either if you feel originally like it doesn't go well to come back and you put in that. That effort and work to make the relationship work.

[David]

Exactly. Yeah. So, I mean, everything worked out, you know.

[Thais Gibson]

That's beautiful. So. So you said your theme, and it's actually already interesting. I was trying to write down quickly enough all the. All of the themes, but you already said, you know, a couple of your themes growing up as parents weren't super emotionally available. So obviously that becomes a subconscious comfort zone of what feels attractive to you and familiar. And we know that the subconscious mind very much wants to invest in what feels familiar and safe because it equates that familiarity to safety and thus survival. And ultimately, we're very survival wired. There's a little bit of a theme there. Then there's a little bit of a theme of, you said, feeling like, I have to hide. I'm curious. I really want to explore that in a few minutes where that comes out. Maybe in relationships now, if you ever do feel like you have to hide or not share parts of yourself or if you feel like you've worked through that already. And then you said, sometimes my parents were there and sometimes they weren't. Like a little bit of this touch and go, hot and cold. Then you also mentioned that you were the caretaker.

[David]

Right.

[Thais Gibson]

So I want to go through each theme and just hear from you. You know, we don't have to get into specific people at all, but just themes. People you've been attracted to, themes you've seen in your adult relationships of where you may have any of these things. You attract emotionally unavailable people you feel like you're hiding ever. I sense that you might have worked through that already, but the sometimes there, sometimes not. And the caretaker, which of those or are all of those largely present themes in relationships now?

[David]

Yeah, you know what? The caretaker part comes through. It really does. Like, I've been in a relationship where I was basically, like, feeling like I was in control or their parent or trying to guide them and trying to help them. And I felt like I was honoring a specific role. And it. It worked for a while until it didn't. And then I realized, okay, this is actually not equal anymore. You know what I mean? And then there's other dynamics where, yeah, maybe I didn't reveal everything right away because I was scared.

[Thais Gibson]

Okay.

[David]

And I would hide certain things from people, like my smoking or, you know, my personality or my big emotions. And so those are things that, like, you know, I've been more comfortable being open with myself lately, like maybe the last few years. And so it's like I've been growing.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah, good for you. Okay. And so from 1 to 10, I wanna go through and just score how much you feel like you end up in situations like this with other people. So the other person's emotionally unavailable. The other person, sometimes there, sometimes not. The other person requires caretaking. How strong are each of those themes from 1 to 10? And we're actually gonna try to work through all of them.

[David]

Yeah, okay, sure. Let's go.

[Thais Gibson]

So. So care. Emotionally unavailable. First. From 1 to 10.

[David]

Unavailable is pretty strong because I'm constantly trying to seek their approval or, you know, trying to get them to recognize me. And there's something deeper there, you know what I mean? And the part of not letting people let go and, like, because you still care and I don't want to give up on people.

[Thais Gibson]

We're definitely going to that part. Second, the wife to let go. We're going to go there. Don't worry. So. So emotionally unavailable. And then Just at a high level, too. So I can prioritize what we're going to work on first. Sometimes there, sometimes not. So that kind of hot and cold. How strong of a theme is that for you with somebody else being that way to you?

[David]

In terms of how I react.

[Thais Gibson]

Relationships. Yeah. Like, in terms of people you date being that way.

[David]

Okay. I'd say it's like a 6 or 7.

[Thais Gibson]

Still pretty up there. Okay, good. And the caretaker, if you had to give it a number, that's pretty high too.

[David]

Like, I'd say it's like an eight.

[Thais Gibson]

Okay.

[David]

Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

Okay. So here's what's really interesting. Okay. You always hear this thing where people say, oh, you attract your parents. You. You fall in love with your parents. It's partially true, but it's actually not fully true.

[David]

Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

And here's why. We only attract and invest in our parents if we are still treating ourselves currently the way that our parents treated us.

[David]

Right.

[Thais Gibson]

So, for example, if you have conditioning that happened decades ago in your childhood that now you're decades removed from your home, you're not with your parents, you know, living under their. Their rule on a daily basis, well, how is it possible that. That. That would still be impacting you all this time later? Well, the only way that we still recreate these patterns as adults is because we're replaying them out in relationship to self first. Okay. So we're gonna start with an exercise.

[David]

Okay.

[Thais Gibson]

And we're actually gonna look at, rather than looking at why we have. And I call this our relationship shadow. It's sort of based on, like, Jungian shadow work.

[David]

Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

But we tend to invest in patterns with people because, yes, maybe they came from our parents, but in order for us to be currently investing in them, we actually have to be being these patterns in the relationship to ourselves first. Okay.

[David]

Okay.

[Thais Gibson]

So the first one is emotionally unavailable.

[David]

Okay.

[Thais Gibson]

And I'm curious, where are you emotionally unavailable to yourself?

[David]

That's deep. That is deep. I mean, if I'm abandoning myself, really, this is what I'm. You know, I. I do. I am an emotional person. Like, I do have a lot of depth, and I do seek depth, but I. I sometimes have that. I. I abandon myself because I'm trying to please others.

[Thais Gibson]

Okay, that's a really good one. And.

[David]

Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

And where does that come out the most? So is that in romantic relationships the most? Is that in friendships, family? Is that in.

[David]

It goes everywhere in. In my hockey teams, like maybe even at work or with my family. I just want to try to make everyone happy. And make sure everything's taken care of and over produce, over exceed for them. Do you know what I mean? So even in my hockey team, I'd constantly just be doing things for everybody to make everyone happy. Like it makes me happy at the same time. But sometimes it's like I stop myself. I'm like, I'm doing too much actually. I'm like, this is too much. You know what I mean? So I have to like. Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

And so you're basing some of your self esteem and self worth based on how people feel about you and around you by you over giving or over producing, over delivering.

[David]

Right.

[Thais Gibson]

Rather than actually being able to self attune and say, oh, this is what I want, these are my boundaries, these are my needs and to fully honor them. It sounds like you have the awareness of that because you're in a deep.

[David]

I do have an awareness of it and I try to stop.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah. But the practice of it. Okay, good. So that's a really big first piece. And to be honest, just so you know this, you will always be attracted to emotionally unavailable people as long as you are emotionally unavailable to yourself.

[David]

Okay. Yeah, yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

So that's the route. That's the biggest route. Okay, so, so, so that will be. And we're going to come back to these things after. We're going to talk about how to change them or just aud them first. Okay, so second one is you've described your parents as sometimes there, sometimes not. I'm curious if this is a reflection.

[David]

They're busy working and you know, we sometimes me and my sister would just do our own thing and back in the 80s and 90s you can kind of just roam around, do whatever you want. So I was kind of just giving a lot of independence at the same time. But I didn't have a lot of like control, which was kind of nice at the same time.

[Thais Gibson]

But also, you know, almost like stability, like consistency stability. What would be the opposite of that to you?

[David]

I mean I got the consistency of them providing everything that I needed.

[Thais Gibson]

Maybe it was just consistent like emotional connection.

[David]

Emotional connection.

[Thais Gibson]

And so does this mirror into yourself now. So where are you inconsistently emotionally with yourself? And for example, it might be like, oh, sometimes I share my feelings with other people, but sometimes I close down and don't share my feelings. Or sometimes I say my boundaries and sometimes I don't. Is there anywhere where you're very touch and go with yourself?

[David]

I think it just depends on the person. For me, if I feel safe with the person that I'm able to open up completely. People generally do feel safe opening up to me. So if that's the case, then I'll open up to them. And if I feel a little, the energy a little bit off, like I'll put the walls up and I'll, you know, make sure I don't share everything or be too emotional with people because I'm afraid of being vulnerable and being, you know what I mean, getting hurt.

[Thais Gibson]

So when I say emotionally available to self, I mean like in the relationship.

[David]

Oh, in the relationship, myself. Okay.

[Thais Gibson]

So I mean like, you know, an example would be sometimes you're really attuned to yourself and you're great at like honoring your feelings and noticing how you're feeling and supporting, supporting yourself and creating boundaries and structures for your life to feel like you're taking care of yourself. And maybe other days, maybe when you get busy self abandoning and preoccupied with other people, you kind of forget about how you feel because maybe you're so fixated on other people.

[David]

Right. Okay.

[Thais Gibson]

Is that a theme for you?

[David]

Yes, it is a theme. Yeah. I would say, like, if I'm in that, like I'm not really paying attention to my own needs at that point. Like, I'm just trying to make sure that person or whatever is, you know, happy or whatever satisfied in a way so that I feel that.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah, yeah, that's me. Yeah. Okay, good. So there you go. So that's a big theme. And this is, and so these are the, these are attraction points. Just so you know, everybody, we all invest.

[David]

It's hard to. Like when you say self, I'm like, yeah, like, I guess it's, you know,

[Thais Gibson]

and these are, this is what we invest in. Like we always invest in people who mirror back to us how we treat ourselves. And so the way out of it is not to. Sometimes we think from a conscious mind perspective that we go, you know, our conscious mind's responsible for roughly 3 to 5% of all of our beliefs and thoughts and emotions. And our subconscious and unconscious collectively are 95 to 97%. So we think, I'm just gonna vet better, I'm just gonna choose the emotionally available person. And you say these things to yourself. But until you change how you treat yourself at a subconscious level, we'll keep investing in these people because that's, those are the points that we feel attracted to. Okay. And then caretaking.

[David]

I want to add something to that because I feel like sometimes when we're around or choosing these types of people, like, is there something to prove? Like, I always feel Like I have something to prove or like something to change in others and I want to be able to share kind of like the emotional comfort that I'm at with other people. And I. Not necessarily. It's a little bit of a fixer up kind of energy is where I kind of like lean into sometimes. That's what it feels.

[Thais Gibson]

So we're gonna do that in just a second. We're gonna go through the fears of what happens if you don't do it.

[David]

Okay.

[Thais Gibson]

Okay. And you're gonna see what your core wounds are and then we're gonna go into what needs they meet. So, and sometimes what's confusing is that we have this sort of double edged sword where on one hand we like the thing we're doing and it feels good and actually meets a need. For example, the caretaking part of you might get the need met for contribution and you might actually have a sincere need for contribution.

[David]

Yeah. Okay.

[Thais Gibson]

But then you might have a core wound where you're like, oh, if I see somebody in pain and I don't take care for them, then I am a bad person. And so you have a fear of being a bad person. And so now you have this totally

[David]

spot on what you just said right there. Yeah, that really resonates.

[Thais Gibson]

And then we get in this weird double edged sword where you like want to kind of contribute, but you also put this like unnecessary pressure on yourself and then you lose where the boundary or line actually is. Does that make sense?

[David]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[Thais Gibson]

Okay, so let's just do the caretaker.

[David]

Yeah, for sure. Sorry. We're moving forward there. I'm jumping everywhere today.

[Thais Gibson]

No, you're perfect. You're doing such a good job. This is amazing. You're doing great. So let's start with that one. So. So what are you afraid will happen? And maybe it's exactly what we just said. Sometimes there's multiple fears and I'll ask a couple. But what are you afraid will happen if you don't caretake and you can think of a specific person that comes to mind, a specific incident where if

[David]

you thought that they'll have no need for me anymore, I won't have any use for them anymore and therefore I won't be useful. And in that sense I'll be abandoned because that's the deepest you know.

[Thais Gibson]

There you go.

[David]

Yeah. Okay.

[Thais Gibson]

So your caretaking partially probably comes from that you. And you strike me as that you sincerely like contributing.

[David]

Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

And so you probably get this need met for contribution. But there's also probably a bigger fear driving it of if I'm not proving myself to be useful, then maybe I'm just going to be abandoned. And so it's the fear of abandonment driving, maybe the over giving part, right?

[David]

Yes. Yeah, for sure.

[Thais Gibson]

Now, do you have any familiarity of how to rewire your core wounds? Do you want to do an exercise on that in a little bit? Yeah, we could.

[David]

I think that would help.

[Thais Gibson]

Let's do that. Okay. We'll come back to that. I'll make a little note. So. So that's one really big thing. So let's go to the next part. The, the self abandonment. So if I don't abandon myself, it may come right back down to the same thing. But if I don't abandon myself and focus so much on other people, what do I make that mean? Or what am I afraid happens next

[David]

if I don't abandon myself anymore?

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah. And think of a time where you did abandon yourself for someone else.

[David]

I mean, it just felt like I was giving energy to something that didn't deserve to have it anymore. And I felt like I was. I was lost and confused and hurt and abandoned.

[Thais Gibson]

When you did abandon yourself.

[David]

Yeah. I was upset at myself.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah.

[David]

And I was thinking to myself, why am I continuing to do this? Like, why am I in this situation and why do I always keep giving to the wrong people and why does it always happen to me kind of thing. You know what I mean? That's kind of the question.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah.

[David]

Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

And it's because it's that subconscious comfort zone where I do it to myself. So I keep going back to other people and, and we'll do a rewiring exercise for that. But just going back to that earlier piece where like keeping attracted to emotionally unavailable people. And that's because I'm self abandoning. Right. I'm used to self abandoning. It's my subconscious comfort zone. Do you have the same fear if I don't abandon myself, then I will be abandoned? Or is there also fear like, oh, if I don't abandon myself and keep proving and earning my worth that maybe I'm not good enough or I'm not earning my worth, I'm unworthy or I'm.

[David]

I feel like if you asked me this 10 years ago, it would be more towards the second one. But lately I. I've really found myself and have grown and I really like. And I have people around me that have really confirmed like my value. So I feel like that's changed a bit more and I feel a little bit more confident in that sense.

[Thais Gibson]

Good.

[David]

Although I still do It, I, I, I do have the energy and people around me that can kind of bring me back up to, you know, where I'm at.

[Thais Gibson]

Okay.

[David]

Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

So a lot of people with a big abandoned core wound have a big. I'm not good enough core wound. But what I'm hearing is that you actually kind of don't really have that one much.

[David]

I get assurance from people and validation from really close friends, especially my hockey team that I'm part of. Like, that we play on every Thursday is like, these are people I'm close with that I know very well. And I don't have that fear towards any of them in that sense. Like, everything's very good.

[Thais Gibson]

Beautiful.

[David]

Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

Okay. That's really nice. And do you think if you didn't have that assurance from other people, you would be able to feel a sense of inner worth without other people's assurance?

[David]

It'd be tough. It'd be tough. You know, I do tend to, like, get it a lot from external validation.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah.

[David]

Um, I do a lot of, like, I, I do meditate and, and think about things and reflect about myself. And I do think about moments where I should love myself more, not abandon myself more. So those are thoughts that I do have. And I'm, it's slowly building.

[Thais Gibson]

Okay.

[David]

So I don't necessarily need it from others, but I mean, yeah, it, it helps a little bit and I can go from there. Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

Okay, that's good. I feel you've got a good support system there. So you don't have a huge. Not good enough wound, which is good to check in with.

[David]

Yeah, it would have. It was there, but it's much better.

[Thais Gibson]

But you're doing the work. Yeah, I love that. Okay, beautiful. So, so we're going to get into the letting go part. We're going to get into why it's hard to let go of people. But I actually want to start first and give you a little exercise and how to actually rewire the fear of abandonment.

[David]

Okay.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah. Because if you watch, if you were to almost imagine a thread, that core fear usually comes from childhood. So we have this fear of being abandoned, and then as an adult, we try to cope with the fear by doing all the things, the backflips and somersaults to please other people, to make sure. And then what's wild is because we're treating ourselves this way and abandoning ourselves to not get abandoned by other people, then we're attracted to the abandoners because it's our subconscious comfort zone. So now you get locked in the cycle so the cycle becomes, I'm afraid of abandonment, so I abandoned myself. But then I choose people who will also abandon me or be emotionally available to me. And then I feel like this core wound, this fear of abandonment gets rehashed all the time or refed. Right. Because now you go through the same cycle with the same person abandoning you again. Okay, so the root of how we get out of this is number one, we make a list of all the ways we're going to stop abandoning ourselves. But we're actually, I'm actually going to take you through a three part exercise first.

[David]

Okay.

[Thais Gibson]

Um, and I'll give you a little bit of context for this. So we are all conditioned through repetition and emotion over time. It's what fires and wires neural pathways in our brain and builds these neural networks. So when we have these really long standing core beliefs, then they go right back down these neural networks again over and over. And it's really easy to go back there to think the same thing. So what we want to do is we want to actually reshape our neural networks in our brain to change the narrative that we're always going to be abandoned. And when that changes, then there's nothing to cope from. And then you don't need to do the backflips and somersaults to people, please, because you're not having that fear so strongly. Okay. So in order to rewire, we do three things. We step one, we find the actual core belief, which is I'm going to be abandoned and it's opposite, which is I'm worthy of connection.

[David]

Right.

[Thais Gibson]

Then the second thing that we do is I don't believe in affirmations because affirmations are just of the conscious mind.

[David]

Right.

[Thais Gibson]

So what we actually have to do is we have to get to our subconscious, which speaks in emotions and imagery. So we're gonna come up with all these reasons that you see about yourself, not when you're people pleasing, like actually as you see yourself. We're gonna go into why you are worthy of love for who you are, not for what you do for other people.

[David]

I love this. Okay, yeah, I'm ready.

[Thais Gibson]

And then after we get 10 or 15 of them, so we get some repetition, emotion, imagery, it's gonna start to build these neural networks. But ultimately neuroscience tells us that we need 21 days of listening back in a suggestible state, which is when we're, we first wake up in the morning when or last thing before we go to sleep at night. Our brains are producing more alpha brain waves. We're More suggestible, our subconscious can sponge information in. So once we go through it, you're going to feel a little better, but then what you're going to ultimately do is take it home with you. Listen back to this. Listen back to. You want to record yourself saying it out loud, Listen back, feel about it, visualize about it for 21 days. And now we're actually undoing those neural networks that were there. You're firing and wiring new neural networks, and the abandonment wound will shift.

[David]

Okay.

[Thais Gibson]

Okay. Yeah. So nice. Here's the steps. Okay. So first things first is we're going to go through, and I would love to hear if we can talk about all of the things that make you worthy of love. Okay. Worthy of connection that are not things that you do. So I want you to imagine, like, oh, that's tough. Who you are, who you are behind closed doors, your character. Like, who you truly are. Not when you're doing something nice, not because you're trying, but, like, if nobody was nobody. Exactly. Nobody watching.

[David]

Who are you at the core? Who am I at my core?

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah, I.

[David]

Like, I think I mentioned this briefly, but I'm someone who people do come to for safety and emotional. Like, people trust me. So people will open up to me a lot and, like, connect with me in a way where maybe they don't necessarily connect with everyone, but, like, I'm usually as very safe energy that people feel very comforting to be around.

[Thais Gibson]

I love that. So what I want to do is I want to take it away from other people.

[David]

Oh, yeah. Again. We'll do it again. All right. Oh, my God.

[Thais Gibson]

And I want to come into what that says about your character. So who you are.

[David]

Okay.

[Thais Gibson]

Okay. So irrespective of other people, it's hard

[David]

to, like, bring it out. We rely so much on external validation to, like, feel something, and so try

[Thais Gibson]

to notice, and we can flip it. So you said something really important there, which is that I am a trustworthy person.

[David]

Mm. Okay.

[Thais Gibson]

That seems like your character.

[David]

You know what? I think the whole concept of, like, talking about me feels like. I feel like it's difficult because it's, like, almost like. Not that I'm ashamed, but, like, it's almost like I don't feel like I'm, like, worthy about talking about that sometimes. Like, it's a deep. It's a deep wound. Like, for sure I'm feeling it. Okay.

[Thais Gibson]

Which is why it's so good that we're doing it.

[David]

Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

Normally, the more uncomfortable it feels a little bit or the more confronted.

[David]

Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

It's A deeper wound.

[David]

Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

And also the harder it is to. To see it from the inside out. Usually. It tells me that a lot of. And it's very common for anxiously attached individuals. It's very common that, like, your perception of yourself is kind of more built through the outside in, through what you think people see of you than from.

[David]

I know.

[Thais Gibson]

And you can kind of see it, right?

[David]

Oh, my gosh. Yeah, I'm seeing it now. Okay, so we can go with trustworthy.

[Thais Gibson]

Okay. And do you have an example of how you are a trustworthy person for you, so a way that you've shown up for yourself?

[David]

And I am honest with myself and what I want and my needs.

[Thais Gibson]

I really see that about you.

[David]

Yeah, I am. I'm pretty honest about that. And if I'm not right away, like, I'll eventually be like, you know what, David? Like, you need to be more real to yourself. So I'm very. In that sense, I'm honest and trusted.

[Thais Gibson]

I love that one. That was an excellent one.

[David]

Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

And you're willing to kind of. I noticed this about you and speaking with you, that you're willing to, like, deeply look at yourself, even if it's confronting, to be like, ooh, this isn't working, or, I'm doing this.

[David]

Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

You can see you're really willing to

[David]

meet yourself, really resonate with surface level. I need the depth, and I carry that depth, and there's a lot there. So whether I feel things emotionally, like, you know, up and down, like, I feel the whole thing. And so I don't want to go back to, like, what other people see again, but I feel like I have a wide range for, like, emotions for people or just, like, even growth. Like, I'm very open to growth and being and challenging myself. So I'm never just sitting still or just, you know, not like, I'm always wanting to do better and grow. That's like. That's a big, big thing for me.

[Thais Gibson]

And that's a character trait. That's a character trait, irrespective of anybody else. That's who you are.

[David]

Yes. Capricorn rising, probably.

[Thais Gibson]

There you go. I love that, though. That was such a good one. Okay, so. So really open to growth, Willy. Really willing to challenge yourself. And obviously that also says about you that you are somebody who is okay, stepping out of your comfort zone, trying new things, like immersing yourself in different. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Beautiful. I love that. And what else do you see about yourself? Characteristics that you're proud of outside of everybody else coming back to you, things you see in yourself that you recognize that are worthwhile traits.

[David]

I mean, tough. You're gonna have to lead me into this.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah, I will. I like to always give a little bit of space for you to see what pops up. But I'll.

[David]

I don't want to come in with my ego, so you know what I mean? But at the same time, are you

[Thais Gibson]

somebody who's willing to work hard at what you do?

[David]

I do have a good work ethic, and I will finish projects that I have a lot of passion for, that I believe in. I will be a hundred percent in. And so I will be very reliable in that sense where, you know, I will complete what I said I was gonna do, even if it's for myself now, which I haven't been doing, like, maybe earlier in my life, but now I'm, like, taking the time and doing things for me now. So, you know, having my tarot channel or doing gym more often, and, like, it's all for me now. And before, I was putting that energy into other people and giving and giving and giving, and it was. It's just now it's just finally I'm able to recognize that a. I have energy to give to myself, but also to other people. So I'm able to kind of, at least. You know what I mean? Compartmentalize.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah.

[David]

The energy a little bit.

[Thais Gibson]

And on that note, have you noticed that when you started doing things for yourself, your tarot channel, going to the gym, when it was for you instead of for other people, do you notice that? Actually, like, improve the quality of relationship to self, like, personal fulfillment.

[David]

Yeah. I would understand myself a little bit.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah.

[David]

But I never, you know, at that point, I got to a point where I didn't need all the external validation anymore. Even though it's nice, I don't necessarily need it anymore. And so I am reaching that point, you know?

[Thais Gibson]

That's beautiful. Yeah. Really seeing that. I love that.

[David]

Thanks.

[Thais Gibson]

And so hardworking, reliable. You also strike me as somebody who's very passionate about things, very passionate about life. I don't know if that shows up for you, if you see that.

[David]

I do. And it shows up really as, like, over eagerness and, like, excitement and, like, a lot of spontaneous energy.

[Thais Gibson]

I think that's a beautiful thing.

[David]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

Can you honor that? That's a beautiful thing in your life?

[David]

Yeah, it is a beautiful thing. And I think I show everything right off the bat. So if I'm excited about something, you're gonna be like, wow, David's really into this. And it shows and it's real. You know what I mean? Like, I don't have to hide it anymore. If I'm passionate about something, you'll know. And then that energy actually carries to other people, and it's almost like a invisible energy or light that, like, you know, once they feel that energy of you being really passionate about, they get excited about it. They share the same energy. So it's nice.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah, I love that. And has that helped you and without, you know, resisting the urge to say this through other people's eyes, as somebody who loves connection, has that passion and that authenticity that you have allowed you to form meaningful relationships in your life?

[David]

Yes, of course. A lot of really great, meaningful relationships.

[Thais Gibson]

Beautiful. Sure.

[David]

Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

And do you see anything else about yourself as a person, your characteristics that make you worthy of connection? Again, not for what you. You do, but who you are, Anything in terms of how you've. You know, it strikes me that you worked through hard things in a relationship with your family, that you are willing to, like, do the work with people and show up, and that's part of your character.

[David]

Right.

[Thais Gibson]

Does that resonate with you?

[David]

Yes, it does. Yeah. I always will show up first, and I'll be the one that's always there for everyone. And I do like it because in a way, I'm still showing up for myself, too, because I know that I'm a consistent person. It matters to me.

[Thais Gibson]

I love that.

[David]

Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah. The consistency. Beautiful. Okay. And do you see anything else? We'll just do one or two. We've got a ton in here, and these will be really good for doing the rewiring work. Is there anything else about how you, you know, I heard you outside say you count your macros, and right away I hear, like, oh, discipline.

[David]

I'm very disciplined, too. But again, it has to be from, like, a sense of, like, I have to be passionate about it. And maybe in the past, I wasn't, you know, I was going to the gym regularly and saying, I'm going to do this. But then I was like, no, like, David, like, you got to love yourself more. And, like, if you love yourself and you give all this energy to other people, like, why are you not doing this for you? Because ultimately, like, you know, that's. And once I started doing that, like, it started to elevate me in many ways. Like, I had more energy to give back to other people because I was more confident. I felt more aligned with myself. I felt most authentic. And therefore, that energy projects. You know, how about other people see Me, but I feel that. I feel authentic. And then I feel like I don't have to hold back as much.

[Thais Gibson]

I love that.

[David]

And that's the energy I generally attracted with people. But then it is different with relationships.

[Thais Gibson]

You know what I mean? Yeah. Well, it sounds like you've done some of this right, really seeing some of these things and stepping into some of the. Moving away from self abandonment. We're about to audit your self abandonment

[David]

behaviors now and see what we can find and clean them up.

[Thais Gibson]

But what you're gonna do is you just came up with so many amazing characteristics about you and what you did is you're able to see them through your eyes of who you are not.

[David]

Thank you for leading me into that.

[Thais Gibson]

Not what you do. And what we're going to give you just on this first part is when you take this home, you want to record yourself saying this out loud. And every morning it takes like two to five minutes. And you listen back to these things that you're saying about yourself that you see yourself as that make you worthy of connection to yourself and then to others as a byproduct. And you're going to feel about them and really visualize about these things in yourself. Like see yourself doing these things, being that committed person to yourself, being disciplined in the things that you care about. And the more you feel and visualize about it, it builds new neural networks in your brain. And when you change that abandonment core wound, you won't keep attracting that at a higher level. Okay, so, so that's the, the first big piece. So the second one is we're going to audit your self abandonment behaviors. Okay. So we're going to try to look at anywhere that you do still abandon yourself. And I hear very much that you've come a long way already. You've definitely made some strides and you started doing things more for yourself. We're just going to see if there's anywhere in the different areas of life where there's little things that you can do and we're going to just clean them up a little bit. Okay, so first one is in career. Is there anywhere where you abandon yourself in the workplace still like stay too late sometimes or put other people way before yourself?

[David]

I do work a lot and it's the family run business, so a lot of pressures there. I think I have a good balance. I close, you know, during the long weekends and I take enough time for myself and I think it's a good balance of where I'm at right now, right now. But yeah, you know it's part of who I am and it's a community. So I've not just made it work, it's, it's now part of like my identity at the same time. So people come into the shop and talk to me and there's a lot of like, you know, friendships and community that's there. So I feel it's not just working anymore. It actually feels like I'm like a community business.

[Thais Gibson]

I love that. That's really beautiful. Okay, so know where you're seeing yourself abandon yourself there.

[David]

I don't think I am in a sense. Like I may overwork a bit, but I mean I get all the jobs done. So I mean that's what's supposed to do, right?

[Thais Gibson]

That's good. I love that. Okay, that's beautiful. And the next area of life is financial area of life. Is there anywhere where you like overgive, for example? Some of the common themes you'll see here is you hang out with the same group of friends and you always pay. But then it's.

[David]

I am guilty of a few things there, so. Right when you brought that up, like, I do like to treat my friends out a lot.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah. Now the relationship to it matters. By the way, just to finish. Sorry before I said, if you are abundant and you're generous and you're, you know, that's one thing. But if you're like secretly resenting it or secretly feeling stressed, that's when it's like, okay, you're self abandoning. So it might be, oh, I'm doing great financially and I'm good. And so I'm curious what your relationship is to it.

[David]

I'm very comfortable with it. I feel like lately because I'm more financially comfortable, I'm able to treat my friends to stuff more. And I do this a lot during my birthdays. Like instead of making everyone pay or do or buy me gifts, I invite everyone out to like a nice, you know, Chinese dinner. We all sit around the table. It's good, like talk and I, I treat everyone. But it's kind of a cultural thing too. You know, my family did that. So I, I like doing the same. But I don't think like I ever feel like, oh, this is stressing me out or I'm doing too much or I'm trying to prove or buy their friendship or anything.

[Thais Gibson]

Yes. That's where it's self abandonment instead of generosity and confidence.

[David]

No, I'm not. Yeah, but maybe in the past I would have done that a long time ago. I feel like I've Grown out of that though.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah, that's good. And it's always important to like let check in your relationship to it.

[David]

Yeah, exactly.

[Thais Gibson]

Okay, beautiful. So career, financial, mental is the next area. Is there anywhere where you abandon yourself mentally? So, for example, these are like the areas of, of discussion topics. Like maybe you're sitting out with friends, maybe they have a viewpoint on something that you disagree with, but you don't say it. You're like, ooh, my mental viewpoints aren't. I'm gonna still self silence or maybe so there's one there.

[David]

Not a huge confrontation person. However, I will have my opinion occasionally. I may speak it to like people that I, you know, resonate with, but I don't find myself mentally abandoned. Maybe. I mean, it really depends on the place. Like, I'll be quiet when I need to be, but then I'll speak up later on when, you know, I feel like it's safe around the people that I feel safe talking to.

[Thais Gibson]

Okay. Yeah. So there's no where you feel like I have a friendship, a long standing friendship, and I suppress myself around them. Or I mean, there could be some

[David]

connections here that I do withhold a little bit and that's, you know, those are unique friendships.

[Thais Gibson]

Okay. And it's okay to have people you disagree with, but there's a difference between I disagree and I politely disagree or I still express authentically in a way that I'm like, oh, it's okay that we disagree versus I pretend to be somebody else and I repress myself as a human being.

[David]

I don't think I'm gonna, I'm ever pretending to be anyone anymore somewhere. But I sometimes do hold back my energy a little bit. Okay. For the sake of just maybe it's too much or maybe it's gonna be, you know, scaring that person or something. So not everyone gets that right away, but eventually they will get the full me. So that's where I like hold back a bit in that sense. And it's a safety thing for me.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah. And it can be healthy when you're getting to know somebody and you're vetting and you're taking the time to build trust. Yeah, but is it that or is it like long standing friendships where you. You're hiding a little bit?

[David]

Long standing friendships. I don't hide anymore.

[Thais Gibson]

Good. Okay.

[David]

And the ones that actually I did, I think I've slowly chanced kind of faded out. And I'm a bit older now, so like, it's not like I'm like, I don't want to be your friend anymore. It's just these friendships just. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

[Thais Gibson]

Okay, good. So you're showing up really well in your behaviors to self. It's really good.

[David]

No, I did feel guilty for a while. There's. Sometimes I'm like, why is my loyalty awful about this person I've known all my life? And why, you know, now that we're no longer resonating? Like, I felt guilty, and I would try to maintain that as long as possible.

[Thais Gibson]

Out of guilt.

[David]

Yeah, out of guilt. But I would always feel deep inside, like, I don't really feel like I should be here. Like, I don't really have this, like, urge to, like, talk about anything anymore. And then I kind of knew I felt my body. Like, that's kind of like the answer.

[Thais Gibson]

Yes.

[David]

Because I can compare it to the people that I do like to hang out and talk to. And maybe it just wasn't. I wasn't getting the depth that I was than I needed anymore.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah.

[David]

And as I was growing, that's what I was looking for. And sometimes there's friendships where that fades. And not that I. I don't love or care about them anymore. They still do. It's just that, you know, the energy just change.

[Thais Gibson]

And when you're an adult and you're busy, you have to prioritize where you spend your time. So you have to honor yourself. So you're actually doing a really good job.

[David]

Trust me. I used to be, like, a yes guy all the time and yes to everything. Yes to all my friends, even though sometimes I didn't want to go. But now, like, because time is so sensitive, and as you get older, you realize, like, it's really precious.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah.

[David]

And your time is like my kind of currency, basically, that. You know what I mean? So I have to protect it. Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

I love that. And you know what I heard in there that was really meaningful in the emotional area of life is that you're. You said, I feel into what I was feeling in my body around them.

[David]

Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

And I honored that. And that's very much. I honor my emotions. Well, in the company of other people, which is like, a massive step from coming from anxiously attached to secure that. Those are the things that I, like, look for.

[David]

Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

When determining how secure somebody is in their. So that's a. A beautiful sign. Good for you.

[David]

Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

You're able to feel yourself and notice what you feel and what you need around the company of other people. Right. Excellent. Okay. Okay. I have a sneaking suspicion here. You came in and you said, I lean mostly Secure and some ap. And it sounds like you were really ap. You've done a lot of work. But I'm gonna guess that the one place you still abandon yourself, that's pretty much just in this one place is maybe in the romantic relationship area of life, and that might be moved out a little bit. Okay, so that's our next area of life.

[David]

Good, Stu.

[Thais Gibson]

So you're doing really well in all these areas. Like, really, really well. So romantic relationships, what are the themes that might exist there of self abandonment?

[David]

Like, you know, getting to know people. Sometimes you're just really kind of, like, scared to, like, really be open. And there's all this, like, fear and walls, like, expectations.

[Thais Gibson]

And so as in, like, when you're getting to know somebody and you're attracted to them, that maybe you try. You. You're nervous to say the wrong thing, and you put this kind of pressure on yourself.

[David]

And then it almost feels like I'm no longer my authentic self. I'm like, yeah, a shell of myself, basically.

[Thais Gibson]

And then you clam up a little bit or you kind of freeze, and

[David]

I'll even resent myself, like, later on, like, why am I doing that? And there'll be moments where I try to, like, have my real self come through, but, like, there's always this fear or something or something that's in the way. You know what I mean?

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[David]

Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

That's hard.

[David]

Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

And. And what would the opposite of that look like to you?

[David]

The opposite? Yeah, of not having that, like.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah.

[David]

Fear.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah. What would you say? Like, let's say you go on a date and you're meeting somebody, and you're kind of getting to know them, and normally you might. Maybe you're interested in them, you're really attracted to them. And normally you might kind of be quiet or. Or not say too much or not want to say the wrong thing and feel this background anxiety. What would be the opposite? Practice behaviorally. Behaviorally. I can't say the word behaviorally.

[David]

I do, like, reciprocation in whatever form. So, I mean, whether it's good communication.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah.

[David]

I like to feel their energy and their excitement if they have that too.

[Thais Gibson]

And maybe like, you actually going on to a date and communicating your needs.

[David]

Yeah, I don't think that's ever done. It's always. It always either a starts off, like, weirdly, and then you kind of just kind of, like, falling into it and finding your footing and, like, figuring it out as you go, and it's probably not the healthiest way. And then. Yeah, I Don't think I've ever communicated your needs. My needs when dating, because I feel like that's just. To me, it feels like I'm gonna scare them off or it's weird or like, by the way, XXX and X is what I need. Do you know what I mean?

[Thais Gibson]

It's like, yeah. And it doesn't have to be so. Just to give you context, because sometimes people here, like, communicate your needs and they think, like, we go on a first date and you sit down and you say, I need these seven things from you now that we're on a date.

[David]

Yeah, exactly. Here's a list, by the way.

[Thais Gibson]

Take this home and study it.

[David]

Yeah, yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

No, it's not supposed to be like that. But it's things like, as you get to know somebody. And this is what secure people do very well in relationships when they first date is they will say, you know, oh, what are you looking for? And they'll say, oh, I. I really value consistency. I really care about somebody who's open. I ask, you know, I care about somebody who asks deep questions. So you would tell somebody what you're looking for and what you like. And, you know, you're not gonna, on the first date, say, you need to do these things for me. You're gonna let yourself be seen and be known.

[David]

I really struggle with that.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah.

[David]

And even though sometimes I do eventually sometimes drop here and there, it's already, like, at the point where, like, I've just gotten lost in it and I'm so focused on just trying to, like, maintain the connectiveness with the person instead of bringing those things up because it feels like it's just gonna be a dapper on the energy, is what I feel.

[Thais Gibson]

You know what I mean? Yeah. And so what ends up happening? And this is the wild part of all of this. So you have this abandonment, core wounds, and you abandon yourself romantically while dating. You don't say these things. You don't let yourself be seen or known. Then you don't feel good in the connection. And now you feel like you're chasing. Because your needs aren't getting met and you're trying to chase their affection. And the craziest part is, after having, like, literally thousands of conversations with people, I can tell you that people who report this all the time, especially more avoidant individuals, but even secure people say this. I'll tell you a story to illustrate it because it's the clearest. I had this client once. This is the best story of it. Best. Best example. She came in, she Met somebody on a dating app, and she was like, oh, he's everything I've ever wanted on paper. She'd been doing the work. She came from being a fearful avoidant, became did a lot of work to be secure. And she was like, okay, I'm ready. He's got all these things I was looking for. We've had great conversation, great banter. She went on the first date, and she came back to see me in a session because I was running my practice at the time, and I was like, oh, how was the date? And she was like, you know what? He was so agreeable the whole time. I just felt like I didn't know who he was. And so even though all these things were happening on paper that I liked, I just didn't feel the connection. And one of the most common things that you'll see all the time is when people are too agreeable. They don't show themselves. They don't ever say, these are my needs or this is what I'm looking for. And they don't do that.

[David]

Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

The other person's like, well, then who. Who's in there? And you actually lose your ability to be attractive to other people in that same way.

[David]

Okay.

[Thais Gibson]

Does that make sense?

[David]

Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah.

[David]

Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

And if you had to say from 1 to 10 how much you do that, you challenge people, sometimes you're a little disagreeable. You share yourself and your needs. Is it very, very low?

[David]

I mean, I'll try, and eventually I'll get to the point where, like, I will have to communicate those needs, and they will come out eventually, but I feel like sometimes it's just too late. So I don't do it early enough.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah.

[David]

Is where I'm Where I fault and

[Thais Gibson]

then check in here for a second. When you do finally do it, is it also, like, you've held it in and now you communicate from a bit of a dysregulated space?

[David]

Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah.

[David]

At that point, I'm already. Yes.

[Thais Gibson]

And then the person doesn't hear you. They just hear that you're dysregulated.

[David]

Right.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah. Okay. So, Root, just to review so far. So you're doing a really good job of, like, covering all these bases. So Root is that I have an abandonment core wound. So I'm so afraid of being abandoned that I won't show myself. And so now I don't show myself, and I don't show my needs, which actually makes me less attractive to other people, because that's part of what we're attracted to is not just the Support and agreeableness. We're attracted to challenge. People are very much attracted to that biologically. And then you feel like, okay, then I'm going to hold everything in. I'm not going to say much at all. And then eventually it's too late. And by the time you do say something, it doesn't come out in a very good form. And now your needs can't be heard. And now you're back to being abandoned all over again.

[David]

Right.

[Thais Gibson]

Okay. So the core.

[David]

I know, it's just hurts.

[Thais Gibson]

So the core. We're going to do these two things. We're going to do the abandonment rewiring first and the second piece. Then we'll get into the letting go of people part.

[David]

Okay.

[Thais Gibson]

But the second piece is that you want to practice when you're dating something called exposure work. Okay. And this is something that is specific to romantic relationships. Even if it's on a dating app or you're talking to somebody or you're interested in somebody, you want to practice titrating. Because if you do it all at once, it'll feel too confronting.

[David]

But, you know, I actually did titrating in school. So, like, this actually with me, the whole like.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah, yeah. And we're going to practice titrating you being seen.

[David]

Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

So, for example, you might go into a date, write out a few needs, and you're not going to go say all your needs on the date, like a checklist. You're going to go into the date and say. You might ask that person first to bring up the conversation, what are you looking for? You know, you're on a date. Oh, what are you looking for? And they say, oh, I'm looking for these things. And you might say, I'm looking for these things. Or these things are important to me. And so you're not saying, I need this. You need to meet my needs. You're just letting yourself get seen in the things that you do need and you are looking for. Okay. And you might practice doing that from time to time.

[David]

I know that feels tough to do, but I should eventually get into saying that because, like, that's obviously right away. They can just be like, I'm not looking for anything. And then right away.

[Thais Gibson]

And then you don't waste your time.

[David]

Yeah, exactly. Instead of, you know, x amount of whatever, confusion and, you know.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah, yeah. And this idea that, like, vetting and this is something anxiously attached people do romantically a lot is they think that dating equals, I'm gonna sit down on a date. I'm gonna learn what I can about you and what you like, and I'm gonna be that for you and win you over. And that's me. Being a successful dater and being successful at dating is not bad. Being successful at dating is literally. And what secure people do so well is they're like, I know what I'm looking for. I'm gonna sit down, I'm gonna ask them meaningful questions so that I can see if this person's a good fit for me as much as I'm sharing myself and they can see if I'm a good fit for them. And it's a reciprocity thing. And I get the sense that you go really one sided and like, I'm gonna win you over instead of I'm gonna vet to see if you're a good fit for me.

[David]

Yeah. I think there's also a little key thing that's important here is I tend not to actually go on dates either. Like, I don't do dating apps or dates.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah.

[David]

So I like to meet people naturally through like, you know, community and places that I know. So there is already a base of them knowing me a little bit. So that's why I'm like sometimes shy away from saying those things right away because the expectation of them knowing me is already kind of there. And so I like, I kind of like a part of me feels like I like relationships where it's built on a friendship first.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah.

[David]

Because it feels safer to me.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah.

[David]

And then it's just the part of getting from that point to the other point. You know what I mean? That's also a hard part. Or communicate like it's.

[Thais Gibson]

It's difficult because there's a difference for you. And I think this really strongly. You show up really well in these other areas too securely. So if you're saying, okay, meet people in community and friendship, you actually sound like you're very secure friendships.

[David]

Yes.

[Thais Gibson]

So there's a difference now between letting yourself be known and seen.

[David]

Right.

[Thais Gibson]

As a friend.

[David]

Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

And then moving from there and thinking, I have to keep up this image as David the friend versus being known and seen as David the romantic partner. And I have to share my needs and let you see me in that light. And I get the sense that that's.

[David]

That part gets tucked away, shrunken down, hidden away, put in a box. Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

And then you're so emotionally unavailable to yourself because you abandon yourself in doing that. And then of course, we keep investing in and attracting the emotionally unavailable people.

[David]

Right, okay.

[Thais Gibson]

Exactly. Exactly. So it comes full circle. Yeah. So in this particular dynamic. Right. Ideally, what we're doing instead is you're coming in and you're going to do one thing every time. If it's somebody that. Even if it's. Let's say you meet somebody in, like, your hockey community, right? And let's say you're now developing this romantic bond with them, and you're now, okay, interested in them, and you're gonna see what happens. If that were the case, the goal would be that. That, let's say you're not even going on a date, but maybe you're hanging out at home or you're cooking dinner in your house or whatever it might be, you are then gonna say in that quality time that you spend together, oh, these are things I'm looking for. You have to let yourself get seen and known romantically. And that's what we're gonna practice tightening.

[David]

Yeah, that feels so uncomfortable to mention. But, like, I know it has to happen because it's uncomfortable. So that's why I know it's like, you know, definitely some. Something I have to work on and

[Thais Gibson]

just to back check it for a second, what do you make it mean or what are you afraid will happen if you do do it? Is it the same thing? Oh, I'll be too much and I'll be abandoned.

[David]

Yeah. Rejection.

[Thais Gibson]

Okay. Rejection. Good. Okay. So. So what we're gonna do is interesting. And. And do you believe that you'll be. You sincerely believe that you'll be rejected?

[David]

I mean, that's a. That's a deep core wound I still have to deal with a lot. Yeah. Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

So just like we set up the abandonment core wound, that's what I want you to practice doing at home, which is the opposite. So those three steps and it's. We can. You can do it once, and it's gonna help, and you're gonna feel a certain way, but it only really gets its power to remove the old core wound. When you do it every day for 21 days, you listen back, you feel about it. Because core wounds are not conscious. We don't choose them. We're not. We don't wake up with our conscious, logical mind and say, today I'm gonna fear abandonment all day and see what happens. Like, it's. They're embedded, right? At a subconscious level. So you really want to do. The opposite of rejection is acceptance. Okay, so you'd look for, where am I worthy of acceptance? What is. What is acceptable, healthy about me? And it'll be very hand in hand with the abandonment traits because you really looked at you as a person. And then once you have 10 or 15 of those, you'll record yourself saying them out loud and listen back for that 21 days. And then we're actually reprogramming, and that's where the magic happens. Okay, so you've done a really good job so far.

[David]

Okay, thank you.

[Thais Gibson]

You've acknowledged why you date emotionally unavailable people. Because I get very emotionally unavailable. And before. And just so you know this, the titrating, sharing your needs and getting seen romantically will feel so much less scary and confronting when you work through the core wounds first with rewiring in the morning. Okay, does that make sense when that wound is wiped out? From a neuroplasticity standpoint, now all of a sudden it'll feel a little more normal and natural to want to be seen because that fear isn't running the show behind the scenes. Make sense? Okay, beautiful. Okay, so now we're going to get into the letting go part.

[David]

Yes. Okay. Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

So, you know, without sharing too many specific details, what are the themes in your life that you have a hard time letting go of? When it comes to emotionally unavailable people,

[David]

people that I still care about that maybe not necessarily put the same energy or effort into connection, it's hard sometimes to let go because you feel like there's unfinished business or there's something still there that you kind of like, still want to, like, cherish or kind of build on. But sometimes it's just not enough. But then there's that part of you that doesn't want to abandon that or let that go because it's almost like you're giving up on something that's potentially there. You know, that's. It feels tough. It's really hard to let go. And I think other people will kind of resonate with that. Like, it's really hard to let go of people that we care about because you don't necessarily see that as an endpoint, you know, but sometimes it's for the better.

[Thais Gibson]

Yes.

[David]

Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

So I'm going to tell you a story is one of my favorite stories, isn't a book. I read this book like 15 years ago. I might have misremembered the story over the years, but I'm going to tell you the best. The version of it that I've stored. So there's a wonderful book called the Mastery of Love, and it's the author of the Four Agreements, a very popular book, very easy read. And from what I remember of the story, it's a book about self love, and they tell the story that you have to imagine that you have a magical kitchen, and you have this magical kitchen, and you can like literally snap your fingers and automatically you have like whatever food you want.

[David]

Oh, it's like a Star Trek kind of thing where they have the food replicator. Sorry, I'm just. I'm a nerd.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah.

[David]

But yeah, they have like this technology where you just ask for it and it just makes it for you and it just shows up as a hologram. Whatever you want.

[Thais Gibson]

There you go. This is it.

[David]

It's that.

[Thais Gibson]

So you can slap your fingers, you can have whatever food you want. Okay? And one day when you're living in your house with your magical kitchen, somebody comes and they knock on your door and they're like, hey, I have a pizza. You can have a piece of my pizza, but you have to do all the things that I tell you to, all these stipulations.

[David]

Okay?

[Thais Gibson]

You're going to be like, no, I have a magical kitchen. I can snap my fingers and get my own pizza without your stipulations. But then one day your magical kitchen breaks and it's been three days and you have no idea how to get food and you're starving and this person comes back to your door and they knock and. And they're like, hey, I have a piece of pizza with all these stipulations. What are you going to do? Yeah, you're like, give me the pizza. So we're willing to put up with lots of red flags, and we also have a really hard time letting things go when we're in a position where we're starving for needs that we don't know how to meet or self source.

[David]

Right.

[Thais Gibson]

And the analogy of the magical kitchen is like our self love and our ability to meet our own needs and do things for ourselves. And what I find is that the reason at the end of the day, that we stay so attached to people who couldn't reciprocate or who can't show up for us is because they actually represent small needs that we're starving for and that we don't know how to self source. And it's almost like you're willing to accept the breadcrumbs and you want to keep going back to the breadcrumbs when you're first starving. Does that make sense?

[David]

Yeah, I'm definitely starving. I'm hungry.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah, so is. So, you know, without sharing too many, you know, any specifics.

[David]

Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

A person in your mind or a couple people that come to mind that you've had a Hard time letting go of. I want you to. Instead of thinking of the person that you're having a hard time letting go of, I want you to think of the needs they met that you may be having a hard time letting go of. And I'm curious if anything comes to mind. So maybe they validated you a 3 out of 10, but I'm validating myself a 0 out of 10. What comes to mind like that?

[David]

Some validation, some, you know, connection. A little bit of depth here and there. There's like. It's always. I always say potential or. You know what I mean? Like.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah. And that meets a need, by the way. So when you see the potential, tell me what need that meets to see their potential.

[David]

Well, I'm kind of. Because I do tarot too. So I'm kind of always projecting the future and potential timelines. And so, like, I sometimes will project a timeline, be like, okay, well, this person could be this for me one day or really grow with me in the sense, or do this with me because they have the capacity or they're showing some capacity for it. So it is a need, I guess.

[Thais Gibson]

Good. So I hear that you start connecting in the fantasy of the future.

[David]

Yeah, it could be. Yes, of course.

[Thais Gibson]

And we always. Our mind always meets its needs in the fantasy of the future or memories of the past when we don't get the exact needs met in the present.

[David]

Right.

[Thais Gibson]

So, for example, if I feel like I'm not getting my needs met for, let's say, exploration, then I may. If I was you and I'm dating, I may project this story of in a timeline. Okay. I could. We could go on a trip. We could explore together. We could travel. And I fantasize about it. And our fantasies are literally never random. Not even one ounce. Our fantasies are always about unmet needs.

[David]

Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

So are there any themes in there, like, the things you tend to fantasize about, like, what needs are met in the fantasy? Because it actually tells you what needs you're missing in the present reality.

[David]

Like just deep connection.

[Thais Gibson]

Ah, depth.

[David]

Yeah, depth. Like, I. I do a lot of surface stuff, but I need a little bit more. You know what I mean? And sometimes a lot of people are willing to go that deep. So the people that do, like, I give them some extra points. You know what I mean?

[Thais Gibson]

Even if it's intermittent.

[David]

Even if it's intermittent. Yeah, I hear that. Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

And what else do you see in the. Is that those are the main ones. Depth, connection, validation.

[David]

Validation's nice as well. Yeah. Someone who likes, recognizes Your contributions and, like, you know, your hard work and, you know, what you do. It's kind of like they're seeing you in a way.

[Thais Gibson]

I was just going to say, and, you know, it's wild. We fantasize the most about being seen. Being seen when we don't see ourselves. And notice that you saw yourself. You didn't see yourself through your own eyes very easily. You had to come back and really bake into that because you were really good at seeing yourself through other people's eyes.

[David]

It's always other people's eyes.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah. And so that makes sense. A lot of sense. And do you ever, like, how often do you just sit with yourself and journal or really move through things? You strike me like you do it.

[David]

But I do, like, just sometimes lay in the dark and reflect a lot. Sometimes I'll, like, put on affirmation videos. You know what I mean? But, like, when I. When I do, though, like, I. I can be all over the place, really.

[Thais Gibson]

Affirmations also do not work.

[David]

They don't work.

[Thais Gibson]

Nobody likes to hear, oh, no, I know, I know. Information. Because your conscious mind hears language. So if I say, okay, if I say whatever you do, do not think of a pink elephant.

[David]

Yeah, exactly.

[Thais Gibson]

Your conscious mind here is, do not. But your subconscious already flashes the pink elephant.

[David]

We should eliminate these videos. Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

So the. So don't waste your time. Do the rewiring. That's the feeling and the emotion. Yeah. Those are the things that change things. Yeah. And how much. But the depth, need in self, how much do you feel like you see? Well, if you had to score yourself from 1 to 10, how much do you see yourself on a regular basis?

[David]

Like, I really want to. Like, when you say see yourself, like, it's just like, completely as I am. Like, do I notice your worth?

[Thais Gibson]

Notice who you are?

[David]

I know my worth.

[Thais Gibson]

Okay.

[David]

I know my worth. So in that sense, I. I know that part. But, like, when I talk about, like, depth and people being able to see me, it's just. There's just so much more. And a lot of people only just get, like, just like, the surface of it. You know what I mean?

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah.

[David]

Do I see that in me? Like I recognize it in me?

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah.

[David]

I recognize it's a need that I want because it's something that I want mirrored as well. Because. And that's sometimes what I'm looking for is that mirror of that, like, really deep understanding. It can even be a silent understanding of. Yes. Being seen and just this kind of, like, connection that doesn't need to like, you know, a deep soul connection as well.

[Thais Gibson]

And what would that look like from somebody else? Would it look like them asking you meaningful questions, being really curious, like when we say depth, like getting to know you, asking you deep questions, asking deep

[David]

questions, but also understanding it and also recognizing, you know, when I'm saying something or expressing something, like they understand what I'm feeling and sometimes maybe even jumping ahead to the conclusion, ahead of time for me, like predicting something, but I don't necessarily do that. But yeah, maybe that's a need.

[Thais Gibson]

But it's nice. Yeah. Yeah, that's nice.

[David]

And someone who doesn't like see life in a way that like someone who sees life the same way I do, which is not to worry about the small things and like, you know, there's this just bigger things to like, you know, worry about and. Yeah, and I think some people, sometimes people are just so worked up in their daily lives and people are just kind of, you know, really worked up and sometimes letting all that go. And I kind of want someone who finds the same peace as me.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah.

[David]

Because they found peace in themselves too.

[Thais Gibson]

Yes.

[David]

And which is in a way they'd have to have some form of healing and recognization of, you know, or their growth, at least their ability to recognize that I'm able to grow. And I, I accept that. And I want that somebody with like

[Thais Gibson]

a high EQ who can match you a little bit. Yeah, yeah.

[David]

I think emotionally, I, I look for someone who's emotionally open as well. Like, I do want that, you know, I say that, but, you know.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah, yeah. And so all of these things that you're saying, like feeling validated, feeling like somebody has depth, somebody recognizes you. You said seen, you said known. You didn't say known. But like somebody can kind of know in advance where I'm getting that feeling known.

[David]

And just me and what drives me, why I do the things I do and just realize the beauty in that. You know what I mean?

[Thais Gibson]

Good. And so, so all these beautiful things that are so meaningful, that are clearly such an expression of like, what would really light you up? How much do you feel like you, you know, in sort of a two part question, first of all, have that right now even in friendships or people around you. And second of all, allow yourself to get that in a relationship without blocking yourself by shrinking.

[David]

Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

And what do you see come up for those?

[David]

I do get it a lot in my friendships and you know, people in my hockey team that I'm close with, like, they, they show me, they see Me and know me, but it's taken years for them to understand me. You know what I mean? So we've gotten to this point where we're all. I call it our legacy era, where we really all understand each other a lot. So it's kind of cute. But in terms of relationships. Yeah. Like, I want. I want something similar to that.

[Thais Gibson]

And. Yeah. And that makes so much sense. And these are really healthy, beautiful needs. And I guess if you're noticing here, there's a part of you that maybe blocks that a little bit.

[David]

Yeah, it does block that.

[Thais Gibson]

And so you hunger for it. And then you're willing to put up with little crumbs of this because you're not getting it. Because that whole. Whole pattern of fearing abandonment or rejection causes you to shrink. And then you can't be seen, you can't be known. People aren't curious about you. They can't empathize with you. You can't get there deeply with them. Giving to you what you're giving to them because you're actually feels imbalanced.

[David]

Yeah, it also feels imbalanced. Yeah. And I resent them at the end, you know, And. And.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah. Yeah. So I want you to see this whole thread because it's a little bit like, there's lots of layers.

[David]

Okay.

[Thais Gibson]

So. So the first layer is I have big abandonment and rejection core wounds, which means just inherently, we do those core wounds to ourselves. So I abandon and reject myself to please other people.

[David]

Okay. Right.

[Thais Gibson]

So now that's my subconscious comfort zone. So although my conscious mind says I want the emotionally available, deep, empathetic, curious person about me who will see, you know, me, your subconscious says, nope, we want what's familiar because we equate that to safety and survival. So now I'm going to actually keep choosing the person who doesn't give those things to me, but instead who treats me with abandonment and rejection. Because that's familiar. Because that's how I treat myself. Right. So now I go into relationships and I'm moving from there. And so now, as a result of moving from there, I shrink, and I don't let myself get seen. And then in shrinking and not letting myself get seen, who's gonna meet all these needs? How can somebody be curious about me if I'm never showing myself? How can somebody make me feel seen and known if I hide myself? So the root of all of it is actually the fact that those abandonment and rejection core wounds are then causing that whole threat of behavior. And when you do that, 21 day of rewiring those core wounds, it will shift your behavior. And when you practice pairing that piece with. Okay, I'm not just gonna work through the core wounds, but I'm gonna practice getting seen and titrating it, which will feel easier. When you've removed the core wounds now, you'll start to feel seen, you'll start to feel known. You'll start to actually have people who have that capacity with you. And you can uphold your standards better in relationships because you'll always settle for these little breadcrumbs when you're starving for the needs. Cause you're blocking them so strongly. Does that all make sense and how it comes full circle?

[David]

Yeah, it does.

[Thais Gibson]

Okay.

[David]

Okay.

[Thais Gibson]

So the last thing I'm going to leave you with. Okay. Is sometimes doing the reprogramming feels like work. It's like 21 days, you know, it takes two to five minutes a day. It's pretty easy. But to really drive it home, I like to do something called cost benefit. So what we're going to do is we're going to just look at all of the costs of keeping these wounds alive. Okay. And all the benefits of how it will serve you. And it'll keep you. It'll allow you to go home and be motivated and ready. Okay.

[David]

Motivated.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah. So I am curious to hear what are the costs in your life of having these abandonment and rejection wounds? What do you see?

[David]

I mean, I. I'm preventing myself from finding a deeper connection that I want.

[Thais Gibson]

Yes.

[David]

Or at least filtering out the people that aren't exactly.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah. You know, big time. Big time.

[David]

Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah.

[David]

And that. Then that leads into pain, and then pain leads to feeling abandoned and then going through, like, you know, depression or whatever and going through those phases. I don't want to go through that anymore.

[Thais Gibson]

Good for you. Yeah. And like the vicious cycle over and over again.

[David]

I don't want confusion. I don't want any of that. I want just, you know, to be able to communicate what I want comfortably. And. Yeah, I think that's a great.

[Thais Gibson]

That's beautiful. And I see as well that if you're always going through this dynamic of not actually letting yourself be seen and known, that at some point in that relationship connection you have to people, you probably have a history of feeling like people aren't caring about me the same way I care about people. Or, gosh, relationships are always me pouring in and they feel one way. And that can kind of be exhausting and.

[David]

Yeah, it is exhausting. It is exhausting. Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

And another really common one is resentment.

[David]

Yes.

[Thais Gibson]

Those are the breeding grounds of resentment. That's the one to create resentment. That's the recipe.

[David]

Sometimes, I'm gonna be honest, it happens,

[Thais Gibson]

and I do feel it.

[David]

Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

And it makes sense, right? It's your subconscious mind just having these programs and going through the cycle. So everything you're saying makes perfect sense.

[David]

Not just towards the person, sometimes towards myself. And be like, why am I doing this?

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah.

[David]

Like, what am I doing here? You know what I mean?

[Thais Gibson]

And probably because part of you knows better because you're so emotionally aware. But until you do the rewiring work, even when we know better, we can still go back to the same patterns. Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. And who would you be in your life, in your world without this big fear of abandonment and rejection?

[David]

God, I mean, I'd be just so free and at peace, and, like, maybe one day I'll be able to find that love. You know what I mean? Like, not that I need it, Like, I feel. Don't feel whole as a person right now. Like, I do feel whole as a person, but it would just mean, like, that. Like, I've been doing the right work, and it'd be rewarding that, like, you know, I finally made it to this point, like, so that that signals growth for me, and I like that. So.

[Thais Gibson]

And you wouldn't just feel whole as a person on your own, you'd feel whole as a person whilst in another relationship.

[David]

Yes, that's right.

[Thais Gibson]

Because you would keep yourself well in a relationship instead of feeling, I have to shrink myself or throw myself away to be what they need from me to get in and sustain a relationship. You would be like, I'm whole and I'm going to stay whole even in a connection to somebody else.

[David]

Exactly. Yeah. I want that.

[Thais Gibson]

You would feel seen and you would feel known, and you would finally have that depth, and somebody would get to know who you are because you're sharing yourself. And what does that feel like in your body when you think about that?

[David]

It feels so safe and warm and comforting and soft and peaceful and open and exactly what I'm looking for. Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

What we took David through today is understanding, number one, why we get attracted to emotionally unavailable people. And as with everything we talk about on this channel, the number one reason is because it's a subconscious comfort zone. And your subconscious comfort comfort zone doesn't just come from family. It has to actually stay alive. Even if you were imprinted by your parents growing up, we had to actually stay behaving that way in the relationship to ourselves in order for that to still be a point of attraction in our adult lives with other people. And so what we came to see is that David has some patterns really not happening in many areas of his life, but very specific to the romantic area of life where he self abandons, causing that rejection and abandonment core wound to stay really alive. And then of course, because that's what's comfortable and familiar, he's then attracted to people who will reject and abandon him. And so the way that we change that is, number one, we find those core wounds, which we did, and we do the 21 days of auto suggestion reprogramming. And that from a neuroscience perspective, allows us to actually change those wounds at a subconscious level and really reshape our subconscious comfort zone of attraction. And in doing that, it then won't feel so scary for David to talk about himself and his needs and allow himself to be seen and allow people to come and meet his needs and bring that depth to him in the relationship. And all these things that he's always doing for everybody else, he can finally receive when he starts to show himself in romantic partnerships as well. And in turn, practicing that exposure, work on titrating that and becoming more seen and more known will facilitate more depth in his connections and relationships going forward. And then the very last piece that we really dug into was his ability, when he does start dating again, to do a weekly check in because we'll want some accountability there. It's so easy to forget and to go back into that comfort zone of self abandoning. And so checking in and making sure that he moves through that process as he dates will truly be what allows him to provide for himself deep fulfillment and meaningful connections that are finally reciprocal in his life. From this point forward, what we're going to do is we're going to share with you your core wound reprogramming.

[David]

Okay.

[Thais Gibson]

Caitlin takes amazing notes. She has it all ready to go.

[David]

Appreciate you.

[Thais Gibson]

And what that will allow you to do is take that home so you can can work on the abandonment rejection first. That's like part one. You're gonna work through those things for 21 days.

[David]

Okay.

[Thais Gibson]

Okay. Your second piece is that then you're gonna practice, even if it's like on dates or even if just there's somebody you're attracted to. You're gonna practice once you've worked through the core wounds, titrating, letting yourself be seen. So let's say there's somebody that you're attracted to, you're gonna share something that you look for romantically with them or you're gonna let yourself get seen.

[David]

This is the hard one.

[Thais Gibson]

And you're gonna do it in really, really small doses. So it's not too confronting for your nervous system. Just very small, by the way. Or it could just be like a way of flirting. Oh, I like when this happens. Or I like, I like when you do this. Or little, little things where it's like you letting yourself be seen and known. And honestly, watch what that does for your dating life. Like, you're gonna see people actually gravitate towards you.

[David]

Someone who like, like is really emotionally open. And can you say, like, oh, I really appreciate you being.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah, open, totally.

[David]

That's saying something from my side. Or is that kind of stating my need in a way?

[Thais Gibson]

So I say that there's a two part answer, so that's perfect.

[David]

Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

Okay. But I get the sense that you're gonna do it in a friendship level.

[David]

Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

And if you're doing a friendship level, it's great. But if it's sort of a romantic attraction, you might say, oh, I love this about you. You do it in a way that you're letting yourself be known. Oh, this is something I really look for when I'm getting to know people.

[David]

You can say in a way where I kind of like this. And that kind of signals to them that this is what you like.

[Thais Gibson]

Absolutely.

[David]

Okay.

[Thais Gibson]

Absolutely. That's the best place to start. That's exactly how you do it.

[David]

Okay.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah. And then you build on that with people. I like this about you. Or I like when you do this. Or you know, these things that allow them to say, oh, okay, this is what you're looking for. And now for the first time, you actually give them room to come to you and meet your needs because they're seeing, oh, this is what you like. Okay. I can be that for you. I can show up that way for you. Only if it's authentic and they're not self abandoning themselves.

[David]

That's a whole other thing. That's their world. That's on me. That's on their me. Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

But you give them room to see you and to know you and to meet you there.

[David]

Okay.

[Thais Gibson]

And without that, it's so hard for that to even happen in the first place. It's like you pre disqualify yourself.

[David]

Right? Yeah.

[Thais Gibson]

So that's gonna be your second part of the work. Okay. And then what I would do is I would just do a weekly check in with yourself when you do start to date. If there's somebody that you do start to date or you meet And I would just check in on a weekly basis. Am I communicating my needs? Is there anything I'm not saying that I should be sharing with this person? And that'll be a really good accountability follow up piece.

[David]

Okay.

[Thais Gibson]

How does that sound for you?

[David]

Yeah, that sounds great.

[Thais Gibson]

You can do it.

[David]

Yeah, I think it's true for me. I think I can. I'm disappointed. I can do this.

[Thais Gibson]

And does that all make sense for you in terms of full circle where, hey, the reason that I keep getting attracted to emotionally unavailable people is because I'm first emotionally unavailable to myself and I shrink myself in dating, so no wonder that's attractive. It's my subconscious comfort zone.

[David]

Even on a subconscious level, I'm. I'm aware of all these things. And I needed you to just reiterate and tell me that, to confirm that with me. And it helps.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah, yeah. And then to be able to move through those underlying pieces or you're just

[David]

making sense of it more for me where maybe there's parts that I didn't get connect yet and now it kind of all makes sense.

[Thais Gibson]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, you did an amazing job. Thank you so much. Thank you for being here. And I would love to just follow up with you and hear how it goes at some point for sure. Thank you so much.