101. Franklin Graham's CPAC Speech Shows the Delusion of Christian Nationalism

Summary

The Tim & April Show, Ep. 101

Franklin Graham's CPAC Speech Shows the Delusion of Christian Nationalism

Podcast: The New Evangelicals
Hosts: Tim Whitaker & April Ajoy
Date: April 7, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this response episode, Tim and April listen to and break down Franklin Graham’s speech at CPAC, exposing the contradictions and dangers of Christian Nationalism as it merges faith with right-wing politics. The hosts analyze Graham’s talking points, highlight hypocrisy, and discuss the broader impacts on faith, justice, and American culture. This detailed and often fiery exchange unpacks themes such as double standards within evangelicalism, the weaponization of persecution narratives, and the false conflation of Christianity with conservative Republicanism.

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Key Themes & Insights

1. Introduction: Who Is Franklin Graham?

• Background: Franklin Graham is Billy Graham’s son and a major evangelical figure, but more overtly political and nationalistic than his father.
• Hypocrisy Highlighted:
  • Graham’s famous 1998 op-ed condemned Bill Clinton for lack of moral leadership, yet he ardently supports Donald Trump despite evidence of similar and greater moral failings.
  • Tim (02:55): "The same Franklin Graham that wrote that op-ed... is the same person who simps so hard for Donald Trump."
• Memorable Quote:
  • April (05:07): "He is a walking meme. Like, he is, he's all the tropes and all the memes in one person."

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2. Graham’s Double Standards & “God’s Files” Analogy

• On Trump & Epstein:
  • Graham trivializes Trump’s appearance in Epstein files, shifting blame and minimizing scandal by “Jesus juking” the issue.
  • April (04:35): "Did you know that God has a file on each one of us? The Epstein files are nothing compared to God's files."
  • Hosts point out the absurdity of equating minor human flaws with crimes like sex trafficking and question the selective outrage.
• Memorable Moment:
  • Tim (05:37): "We're not even in the same galaxy... Are you for real right now?"

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3. Hypocrisy in Scandal & “Biblical Values”

• Selective Mercy:
  • Hosts call out how conservatives demand “redemption” for Trump but were “out for blood” for Democrats caught in scandal.
  • April (06:09): "If it's someone on their side, then suddenly, well, who among us is perfect?"
• Weaponizing Culture War:
  • Discussion of how every minor misstep by Democratic politicians is amplified, while GOP figures are given a pass.

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4. CPAC Speech Play-by-Play & Rebuttal

a) Opening/Patriotism & Oil (07:38–08:42)

• Graham praises Texas barbecue then pivots to oil independence, crediting Trump’s policies.
• Hosts immediately point out that the US is not truly oil independent and criticize the myth of “energy independence.”
• April (09:00): "We're not oil independent... that's why everyone's freaking out about bombing the oil reserves in Iran."
• Recommended Reading: Vox article, "The False Promise of Energy Independence" (15:09)

b) Operation Heal Our Patriots Program (09:12–11:22)

• Graham describes his organization’s marriage retreats for wounded veterans, somewhat mocking quick marriages among soldiers.
• Tim notes how church culture also fast-tracks marriages for different (but equally problematic) reasons.
• Tim (11:05): "Church culture does that... but if you substitute youth group or small group for bar, suddenly, it's a really bad idea."

c) War Rhetoric & Iran (11:28–13:06)

• Graham describes the US as “at war with the Islamic Republic of Iran.”
• Hosts correct this, pointing out the US initiated conflict, not Iran, and denounce the spin.
• Tim (11:48): "We started bombing children in Iran... for no reason. Zero."

d) Claiming ‘Nonpartisan’ While Advocating for Republicans (13:06–14:28)

• Graham claims he is neither Republican nor Democrat, but a “conservative and most importantly, a follower of Jesus Christ.”
• Tim and April expose the ruse where “biblical values” in church pamphlets always conveniently align with GOP talking points.
  • April (14:28): "Under Biden it said communism... under Trump it said capitalism... murders babies vs saves babies. It's so stupid."

e) Trump as God’s Appointed & ‘Queen Esther’ Analogy (16:10–21:12)

• Graham frames Trump as divinely chosen, even paralleling him with Esther as a savior figure.
• Tim (20:27): "There it is. Trump is Esther in the Bible. They’re the same thing. Yeah."
• Hosts decry the comparison, pointing out Israel’s ongoing violence and the grotesque misappropriation of Scripture to defend militarism and genocide.

f) Celebration of Overturning Roe v. Wade (22:36–25:32)

• Graham boasts about Trump’s judicial appointments and abortion bans.
• April slams this as dangerous to real women’s health, citing stories of blocked life-saving care for conditions like ectopic pregnancies.
• Tim highlights ongoing abuses: "The Trump administration is diverting... girls who have been sexually assaulted... being forced to carry those pregnancies to full term as we speak." (23:33)

g) ‘Religious Freedom’ for Christians Only (27:15–28:16)

• Graham claims Trump supports “religious freedom,” but hosts note this only applies to a narrow brand of Christianity, not Muslims or progressive Christians.

h) Reviving the “War on Christmas” (29:27–34:36)

• Graham elevates Trump’s “Merry Christmas” rhetoric as a pivotal act of Christian heroism.
• Hosts laugh at the absurdity—Obama and Biden have frequently said “Merry Christmas”—noting this is all about drumming up persecution narratives to unify the base.
  • April (32:49): “A Christian persecution story... rallies the base more than anything.”

i) Conflating Conservative Values with Godliness (36:17–38:48)

• Graham says “God, family, country” are conservative values.
• Tim pushes back: “Those should not be conservative values... Many people who are not conservative believe in God, have a family, and love their country.”

j) CRT, “Woke,” and Transgender ‘Ideology’ (38:48–41:12)

• Graham claims CRT and “transgender ideology” are infecting America.
• April rebuts: “Transgender ideology is truly an idiotic statement. It would be like saying redhead ideology.”

k) Calls for Conservative Unity & Distrust of Media (41:12–43:22)

• Graham laments division on the right, then blames doubt on “mainstream media” and social media personalities with extreme views.
• Tim notes Graham fails to rebuke actual far-right anti-Semites and bigots, advocating unity instead.

l) Election Integrity Paranoia, AI, and the “SAVE Act” (46:09–49:42)

• Graham peddles baseless claims about AI threatening fair elections.
• Tim and April call out this misdirection. The real threat is GOP-led voter suppression via the SAVE Act.
  • Tim (47:50): “There was one vote in their last election from an undocumented person. I need more than one vote to prove we have an election integrity problem.”

m) Apocalyptic Rhetoric: Antichrist & Urgency (49:50–51:02)

• Graham frames political struggle in end-times language, warning of a coming "one world government," then urges unified support for Trump and “his policies.”

n) Parent Rights & Demonizing Queer Youth (51:02–53:06)

• Graham revives “parent rights” arguments—code for outing or discriminating against queer children in schools.
• April explains real threats to parental rights come from bans on gender-affirming care, not inclusive school environments.

o) Fixation on ‘Transgender Agenda’ & Demonizing Trans People (53:12–56:44)

• Graham claims Democrats are “sexualizing children” by supporting trans rights.
• Hosts expose the projection—the real oversexualization is from purity culture and policing women’s bodies in church.
• April (56:23): "Do you know what sexualized me, Franklin? Being eight years old and told to cover up my shoulders because grown ass men like you might lust after me? That is actually sexualizing children, not the existence of trans people.”

p) Repeating GOP Attack Lines (“Open Borders,” “Defund Police,” etc.) (57:24–58:33)

• Graham blames Democrats for everything from criminal justice reform to military spending.
• April and Tim highlight the ongoing Republican control of government, and the fact that Trump pardoned January 6th insurrectionists who reoffended.

q) Demonizing Social Programs (60:52–62:20)

• Graham mocks spending money on “helping Somalis”—hosts note these are the programs that actually help Americans and immigrants in need.

r) Gospel Presentation & Theological Critique (64:01–81:59)

• Graham pivots to a standard evangelical “altar call,” emphasizing substitutionary atonement and the need to “accept Jesus” or face hell.
• Tim (67:19): “God has placed a death sentence over the world, but also God loved the world so much that if you believe just like how Franklin Graham believes, you will not burn in hell forever, but you will go to the good place.”
• April and Tim critique how this exclusive theology undergirds MAGA tribalism and is only applied generously to those whose politics align with Franklin, especially Trump.

s) The Trump “Salvation Letter” and Evangelical Double Standard (72:19–75:25)

• April reads Franklin Graham’s letter to Trump, “If you accept [Christ] by faith and invite him in your heart, you are heaven bound [...] Your friend, Franklin Graham.”
• The hosts note that this “grace” is not extended to progressive Christians, only those who prop up the MAGA agenda.

t) Conflation of Gospel & GOP as ‘Christian Nationalism 101’ (79:48–81:10)

• Franklin Graham closes by once again calling Trump “God’s instrument” and alleging that the Democratic agenda is “birthed in hell.”
• Tim and April name this for what it is: a total fusion of a narrow read of Christianity with political extremism—Christian Nationalism.
• April (80:03): “That is Christian Nationalism, people. 101.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Selective Morality:
  • Tim (02:55): "The same Franklin Graham that wrote that op-ed... is the same person who simps so hard for Donald Trump."
• On the “War on Christmas” Fantasy:
  • April (32:49): “If they can convince you that the radical left is trying to take your Christian rights away, then suddenly everyone can come back together again in good graces.”
• On the Dangers of False Equivalence:
  • Tim (69:01): "This is why this theology is so dangerous, because... one sin and you’re just as bad as Jeffrey Epstein."
• On Persecution Narratives:
  • April (34:36): "I've had people literally come up to me and say, 'Happy Holidays,'... and I would aggressively say back, 'Merry Christmas.’"
• On Christian Nationalism:
  • April (80:02): "That is Christian nationalism, people. 101."

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Important Timestamps

• 00:55–03:23: Franklin Graham’s Clinton op-ed and hypocrisy
• 04:33–06:09: Graham’s “God has a file on you” vs. Epstein
• 07:32–09:09: Oil independence myth and Trump’s policies
• 11:05–11:22: Evangelical ‘rush to marriage’ parallel
• 13:06–14:28: “I’m not a Republican, I’m a conservative” dodge
• 16:10–21:12: Trump as “Esther,” Israel, and divine appointment
• 22:36–25:32: Abortion bans & impact on women’s medical care
• 27:15–28:16: Religious freedom—only for their brand of Christianity
• 29:27–34:36: “War on Christmas” and persecution fantasies
• 38:48–41:12: Woke/CRT/Trans ‘ideology’ smears
• 46:09–49:42: AI-panic, voter suppression, election paranoia
• 53:12–56:44: Demonizing the trans community, purity culture hypocrisy
• 57:24–58:33: Attack lines: borders, crime, and Trump’s pardons
• 64:01–81:59: Gospel presentation, substitutionary atonement, selective salvation
• 72:19–75:25: Franklin's letter to Trump about salvation
• 79:48–82:03: Christian Nationalism as the true message of the speech

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Final Takeaways

• Christian Nationalism Exposed: Franklin Graham’s CPAC speech serves as a textbook example of Christian Nationalism—dressing up GOP political talking points as the gospel, using persecution narratives to unify the base, and obfuscating real social and economic issues.
• Weaponized Hypocrisy: The hosts shred the selective outrage and double standards, showing how forgiveness and grace are extended to political allies, but condemnation remains for those outside the tribal boundaries.
• A Call for Better Faith: April and Tim emphasize that true Christian faith is not about parroting right-wing talking points or demonizing marginalized people, but about love, justice, and compassion—values truly rooted in the teachings of Jesus.

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Listen if you want: A sharp, funny, and comprehensive breakdown of how faith is being distorted when mixed with authoritarian conservative politics under the guise of Christianity. Essential for understanding the rise and rhetoric of Christian Nationalism in 2026.

Transcript

[April Lajoy]

You're listening to a new evangelicals production.

[Tim Whitaker]

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[April Lajoy]

The Tim and April show where we unravel politics and culture.

[Tim Whitaker]

Hello everyone. Welcome to the Tim and April Show. I am Tim Whitaker.

[April Lajoy]

I am April Lajoy.

[Tim Whitaker]

Happy Tuesday to everyone out there. Today we're going to do one of our favorite types of shows, a response show. We're going to respond to something. I like those episodes. They're fun for me. They're just fun. They're enjoyable.

[April Lajoy]

Yeah, they're fun. They're also sometimes infuriating depending on what we're watching. Well, that's why they're see if that happens today.

[Tim Whitaker]

So if you're just joining in, if you're just starting the video, thank you so much. Make sure to give this video a like and subscribe on our YouTube channel. If you're listening on podcast. Hello friends. Please make sure to give this episode a rating and a review. Thank you to everyone who listens to the show and follows up, follows us. It really means the world. So today, okay, I saw this clip maybe a week or two ago and I said, you know what, I'm gonna respond to this. And then you hit me up and were like, hey, we should respond to the full speech. I said, that's a great idea. So today we're going to be talking about this dude right here. This is Franklin Graham. Yeah. Now for, for, for our non evangelical friends out there, Franklin Graham is the son of Billy Graham, arguably the most famous evangelist in, in modern history. You know, and the thing about, about Billy Graham is while he certainly had his problems, he was not nearly as politicized as his son is today. And Franklin Graham, who we've covered a lot on the show, his claim to fame was back in the 90s when Bill Clinton, I'm gonna say, assaulted Monica Lewinsky. Cause I'm not sure how someone who's an intern can consent to the president of the United States. I'm gonna use that term here. When Clinton did that, Franklin Graham wrote a piece, an open letter to Clinton and essentially said rightly so that, that if we can't trust a man to be a good leader in this private life and to, you know, and to be a good family man, how can we trust him to lead the nation? And then he also points out that some people were citing King David in the Bible and saying that, well, look, God forgave David, we should forgive Clinton. And Graham goes on to say, rightfully so, that, well, David repented and that there were still major consequences even after he repented in the Bible. So I agree with Franklin Graham on that. The problem is that the same Franklin Graham that wrote that op ed back in the day is the same person who simps so hard for Donald Trump. I mean, like, he might be, he might be like one of the most blatant Christian nationalist types who's also just like a famous figure who simps so hard for this man. And suddenly all of those, all of that, those morals and the consistency is out the window because Trump is a God fearing man. That's who Franklin Graham is.

[April Lajoy]

I think perhaps the, the most wild thing he said in regards to Trump and his scandals was in the, just this past November when all the Epstein stuff was major and obviously we were learning about Donald Trump's name in the files. He made this Facebook post where he starts off by saying, in American politics right now. Here, do you want me to send it to you? If you want to pull it up, sure, I'll send it to you. Just so people know I'm not just like making it up.

[Tim Whitaker]

Well, I would imagine that you would be if I didn't have the proof.

[April Lajoy]

I know this, this one, this one I lit my jaw, literally dropped. In American politics right now, the Epstein files are a major focus. What many are wanting is to see whether they can find any damaging information about President Donald Trump's connection to Jeffrey Epstein, who pleaded guilty to sex crimes and then later died in prison. They may find this inquiry to be a double edged sword because there are likely many people not currently on the radar whose sins may come to light. Okay, here's where it gets interesting. Ready?

[Tim Whitaker]

Here. I pulled it up here. Yeah, I did.

[April Lajoy]

Okay, second paragraph. It says, did you know that God has a file on each one of us? The Epstein files are nothing compared to God's files. His file on us goes much deeper than just what we've said or done. He knows our thoughts, desires and motives. And then he goes on this little rant. But that to me was wild. In defense of Donald Trump being in the Epstein files, he Jesus juked it and said, well, God has a file on each one of us.

[Tim Whitaker]

He is a walking meme like he is, he's, he's. All the tropes and all the memes in one person is Franklin Graham.

[April Lajoy]

Right. And the fact that he's like, God's files are worse than Epstein files. Like, listen, Franklin, I don't know what would be in your file, but I know what would be in my file.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

[April Lajoy]

Kind of compared to the.

[Tim Whitaker]

No, we're. We're not even in the same. Like, we're not even in the same galaxy. Like it's an alternate universe that we're talking about here, you know?

[April Lajoy]

Speak for yourself, Franklin.

[Tim Whitaker]

Sure. Maybe one time I snapped at one of my kids and then said I was sorry, which is way different than child sex trafficking. You know what I mean? Like, it's. I'm just saying, it's like, it's just a crazy. It's just a crazy thing that Graham would say. Like, God has a file on each one of us. Are you for real right now? Are you. Do you really think that men who brag about assaulting women, it. Like, that's somehow equatable to just like, pretty common human errors that we all make at times? Like, do you think those are the same things? You gotta be kidding me.

[April Lajoy]

It's just so hypocritical too, because if it's someone on, like the left side of politics that has some sort of scandal, they're like, out for blood. They. They say he's unredeemable, like in how they treated Bill Clinton, which, I mean, Bill Clinton deserved to be treated that way, but. But then if it's someone on their side, then suddenly the. Well, who among us is perfect? Nobody is perfect.

[Tim Whitaker]

These are the same people. These are the same people who made a big deal out of Obama wearing a tan suit. They made a big deal out of Obama ordering Grey Poupon on his burger. They made a big deal of Barack Obama on a bike with a helmet, comparing him to Vladimir Putin. I mean, these people are so petty. They are the pettiest people on the planet. Unless it's their guy. Then that person can do all kinds of heinous stuff. I mean, some of the worst you can imagine. And. And suddenly not a big deal. Not a big deal. Right. So cpac, the Conservative Political Action Conference, happened in March and Franklin Graham spoke. He gave a riveting 20 minute speech. I have not seen the entire speech.

[April Lajoy]

I have not either.

[Tim Whitaker]

I slightly sped it up. It's at 1.25 speed because he talks super slow. I figured you and I can go through it piece by piece and see what he has to say or hear what he has to say and then respond. Yeah.

[April Lajoy]

So this was from the. The last weekend in March when he spoke in CPAC in Dallas, Texas.

[Tim Whitaker]

Buckle up, friends. Here we go. From the top.

[Franklin Graham]

Good morning. Well, it's a privilege to be here. I've been looking forward to this for some time to be in Texas. You know, you've got some of the world's best barbecue restaurants within about 20 minute drive of here. And so for you folks that are not from Texas, I hope you take advantage. Oh, that's good barbecue.

[Tim Whitaker]

Thank you. So far I agree Texas has a great barbecue.

[April Lajoy]

So I'm from Dallas and so I also concur. We agree. We agree.

[Tim Whitaker]

Totally true.

[Franklin Graham]

Thank you, Frank, Texas, for being the number one oil providing state in America because of President Trump's.

[Tim Whitaker]

And just like that, we're all over the.

[Franklin Graham]

Because of his President Trump's oil policies. Having the Straits of Hormuz closed isn't going to shut off our pumps. We're oil independent and we thank God for that. We thank God for those policies.

[Tim Whitaker]

I'm sorry, isn't gas up over a dollar a gallon on average in the past, like, month?

[Franklin Graham]

Yeah.

[Tim Whitaker]

I don't know why I just so independent, Franklin.

[April Lajoy]

I feel like I would be avoiding the oil topic at the moment.

[Tim Whitaker]

Like, dude, gas is at $4 a gallon average because of Trump's stupid move to bomb Iran. And Franklin's serious out here with a straight face. I'm so glad that we're, we're energy, that we're, we're oil independent.

[April Lajoy]

Like, okay, we're not oil independent though. Like, like that's why everyone's freaking out about bombing the oil reserves in Iran.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh my gosh.

[Franklin Graham]

I came here straight from Alaska yesterday and Johnny Cash sang a song. When it's springtime In Alaska, it's 40 below. Last week, one of the places I was was 45 below and it was spring and I thought of Johnny Cash. It's cold. I was up there. We're getting ready for our 16th year with Operation Heal Our Patriots. This is where we bring wounded veterans and their spouses to Alaska. We take them fishing, we take them bear viewing. But they agreed to three hours of marriage enrichment classes. So we, we do that. We focus on the marriages of these veterans. And you know, when you, you ask some of these veterans, when, where did you get married? Well, we got married a couple of years ago. How long did y' all date? Well, you dated two weeks. Where'd you meet your husband? Well, met him in a bar. And why'd you get married so soon? Well, he was being deployed and like, none of this makes sense. And you're thinking, okay, so the marriages are not on real strong ground to begin with. And then you have an injury or where they're missing an arm or a leg or whatever, and then it. Life changes, and it's just tough. So we. We have chaplains of retired military chaplains that. That deal with these couples. And we take 10 couples a week, and we do that starting the end of May. We go through the middle of September, and we do that in Alaska. Why we do it in Alaska is because there are no diversions up there. There's no distractions up there. The only distractions are bears and things like that.

[Tim Whitaker]

I do kind of find it a little bit funny. I mean, this idea is. Is great. I'm happy. You know, he's helping people who have had serious changes in their marriages. I understand that. But it's just funny that he thinks that, like, you know, meeting someone in a bar and getting married within. Within really quick after dating for, like, two weeks is like, crazy when church culture does that kind of stuff all the time. But instead of a bar, its youth group, you know, like, instead of.

[April Lajoy]

Instead of.

[Tim Whitaker]

Instead of a bar, it's small group, and you're told to get married as quick as you can so you can have sex, and somehow, like, that's God's way. But if you just. If you. If you substitute youth group or small group for bar and you get married that quickly, suddenly it's like a really bad idea. I don't know. It's kind of funny.

[April Lajoy]

I mean, we know they're consistently inconsistent, so.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, true.

[Franklin Graham]

This was a critical time for our country, really, and for the entire world, for all that matters. We are at war with the Islamic Republic of Iran.

[Tim Whitaker]

I'm sorry. Oh, my God. Okay. Sorry. I could do this. We'll keep going. We're at war. No. We started a war. We started a war. We started bombing children in Iran. We dropped bombs on their heads and we killed them for no reason. Zero. Oh, my gosh. Okay.

[Franklin Graham]

Not the people of Iran. These are wonderful people. That is the Islamic Republic. They have insurance. Enslaved their people. They have brutalized their people. And they have. If you remember just last week, I believe they executed one of their. One of the great heroes, one of their champions, a wrestler, because he protested. And this is the type of regime that this is. And remember, it's this regime that in 1979, took our embassy. Remember that? And they held our. Our entire embassy staff and our Marines for 444 days. They held him. And we had a weak president at that time and they, they actually let him go. President Reagan was inaugurated. The day that he was inaugurated, they let him go. They knew what was coming, so they let him go. I'm not a, I'm not a Republican.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay.

[Franklin Graham]

I'm not a Democrat. I got fed up with the Republican Party some time ago.

[Tim Whitaker]

Stop.

[April Lajoy]

That's such bs. That is like the way. Oh, it's the same thing that pastors and churches do anytime an election is coming up.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah.

[April Lajoy]

Where they say, we don't, we don't tell you to vote Democrat or Republican. We're politically independent.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right.

[April Lajoy]

But we will tell you to vote for quote unquote, biblical values.

[Tim Whitaker]

And that's Right.

[April Lajoy]

Wouldn't, you know, just happens to line up with Republicans.

[Tim Whitaker]

What, what a coinky dink.

[April Lajoy]

You know, to be clear before someone comes in, the comments being like, oh, you're just saying that the Bible lines up with Republicans. No, I'm not. I'm saying that their ideology, their conservative Republican ideology is influencing what they, how they interpret the Bible. And they are conflating those two things, which is Christian nationalism.

[Tim Whitaker]

My favorite thing is getting one of those pamphlets in the church pew that's like we're just giving you all the facts. You know, like, you know, the, the, the Democratic candidate versus the right wing candidate. It's like, you know, one wants to kill B babies, the other one wants to protect the sanctity of life. One is a woke liberal who loves the environment too much. The other person just supports businesses to be able to flourish. You know, it's like, it's just like, it's so obvious.

[April Lajoy]

I remember getting one of those pamphlets when it was Biden versus Trump in 2020 and no lie, under Biden it said communism, which is also just stupid. And then under Trump it said capitalism. And under Biden, Biden it said murders babies. And under Trump it said saves babies.

[Tim Whitaker]

Wow, wow, wow.

[April Lajoy]

It's so stupid.

[Tim Whitaker]

But don't worry guys, Franklin Graham is not a Republican. He wants you to know that. I'm guessing what he's going to say is that he got fed up. He's saying it now, but he's going to say essentially like the Republicans essentially went too moderate. And so that's why he let, he left the party, which is why he's a magus, you know, sycophant.

[April Lajoy]

Yeah. I want to say real quick, because he had brought up oil earlier. There's this really good article from Vox. It's called the False Promise of Energy Independence and it's talking about the Iran war because The United States is now the largest oil producer in the world, but that is not the same thing as being energy independent. And what's happening in Iran is still affecting our gas prices. So that would be a good thing to read because Trump and a lot of MAGA people are running with the who cares? We can do our own oil stuff. But that is misleading at best.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, classic.

[Franklin Graham]

Got fed up with the Democrats. Well, I've always been fed up with them, but I'm a conservative, and most importantly, I'm a follower of Jesus Christ. As a Christian, I appreciate Donald Trump taking tough issues and taking stands on these issues that will benefit our world and our nation for years to come.

[Tim Whitaker]

I want to know what those are, because I'm not seeing the benefit yet. I'm, you know, we're what, 15 months, 16 months almost into this Trump regime that apparently is. Is doing the will of God. And all I see is a lot of chaos. I see high prices. I see our neighbors being kidnapped. I see people being killed in the streets. I see ice. I see armed federal agents with masks on with no accountability. I'm just trying to figure out, like, what is he talking about here, by the way? In states, I'm sure he'll get to abortion at some point. I want to say this at the jump. In states that abortion bans are enacted, there are higher rates of infant and maternal mortality rates. So even that stuff doesn't really bring the human flourishing that they say it's gonna. So I'm just so curious, like, what is he talking about here? What. What is he referring to?

[April Lajoy]

Also, it's just so disingenuous to be like, I'm not a Republican, I'm a conservative. But we'll see him later on in this speech. It's a clip that I saw where he tells everyone the importance of rallying together to vote, basically, for Republicans.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, yeah.

[Franklin Graham]

Of course, our president or other presidents in the past have just kicked a can down the road on these hard issues, but President Trump has the guts to take these tough decisions, and I appreciate that. He stepped up.

[Tim Whitaker]

He. The man all over the Epstein files.

[Franklin Graham]

He stepped up to protect Israel and the Jewish people from what I believe was the possibility of a nuclear annihilation by this radical Islamic regime.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay. I just have to say this is such BS propaganda. There's a great video that the Daily. That the Daily show did where they showed Netanyahu, like, literally in 2005 saying the same thing, like, Iran is on the verge of getting a nuclear weapon, which is why we have to stop them at all. It's the same fear mongering that's been happening for literally decades now. And it's the same thing here, because don't forget, Trump, what, two months ago was like, we've obliterated their nuclear facilities. They're obliterated. And now all of a sudden we're back on the verge of Iran nuking Israel while Israel is currently committing a genocide towards the Palestinians. Like it's. The brainwashing is wild. It's crazy.

[April Lajoy]

Yeah.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, my gosh. So you gotta be kidding me.

[April Lajoy]

And even that there was that guy that just resigned who was a counter terrorism. Well, I don't remember what his actual title was, but he just resigned from the Trump administration. I'll look it up. So I. Terrorists. Sorry, you might want to edit this out.

[Tim Whitaker]

What are you looking up? What is it?

[April Lajoy]

The guy who resigned. Oh, the Joe Kent.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes. Yeah.

[April Lajoy]

Joe Kent, who was the director of the National Counterterrorism center, just resigned in this past march over. In protest over what's happening in Iran. And he said that there was never an imminent threat in Iran. And he has the intelligence. He was the intelligence officer resigned over it because basically saying that what Trump was saying was a lie.

[Tim Whitaker]

Look, we have covered already that obviously the Iranian regime has been brutalizing its people. Right. Neither of us are somehow defending that brutalization of that regime. The problem, though, is that America is not some blameless, spotless lamb that's always been altruistic in its goals. We are also an empire. We also brutalize our own people. We also send mass agents into our city streets to arrest and disappear people and sometimes even kill them. Okay? And the US Government has had its hands in the Middle east for decades, including overthrowing the government of Iran at one point and installing a tyrannical regime. So it's like, you know, again, I, I'm not saying that we have to somehow like go from, from what, we hate the US and love Iran or the government of Iran, but like, we can, we can do both things and this is still propaganda. You know, it's. It's absolute nonsense. Okay, we'll keep going and I think

[Franklin Graham]

back to the book of Esther in the Bible where Esther, for such a time as this, God raised her up to save the Jewish people from annihilation.

[April Lajoy]

By the way, better not compare this to Trump.

[Franklin Graham]

Thank God for President Trump.

[Tim Whitaker]

There it is. There it is. Yes. Trump is Esther in the Bible. They're the same thing. They're the same thing. Yeah. Yeah.

[April Lajoy]

Oh, that's so stupid.

[Tim Whitaker]

Israel is currently committing a genocide like the nation state of Israel has killed tens of thousands of people. They. They've created a region in a region in Gaza that has the highest concentration of child amputees in anywhere in the world. They are consistently bombing children. And Franklin Graham, the Christian, the person who claims to follow a Jesus that says to love your enemies and to take care of the poor and the sick and the. And the hurting, is celebrating that action and making it seem like somehow this is God ordained.

[Franklin Graham]

I.

[Tim Whitaker]

My mind is blown like his dad would be so disappointed. I'm convinced. Okay.

[Franklin Graham]

He sent, he sent our military into Venezuela and to capture the evil dictator Maduro and his corrupt wife and brought them back to the United States for justice.

[Tim Whitaker]

So much, so much for sovereign borders. Suddenly sovereign borders over there just don't matter.

[April Lajoy]

No, yeah. Just, just the US border is the only sovereign border. Everything else is a free for all.

[Franklin Graham]

President Trump has been Cuba and the cartels in Mexico. He's put them on notice. And the world has learned that when President Trump speaks, you had better listen. And I think they are. I'm 73 years old. No president of my lifetime has done what President Trump has done. Okay. We'll never have another president liking. And I believe God has raised him up for this for a time such as this. Like Queen Esther, Our grandchildren will have a safer future because of his leadership and his policies. My, my children's children will have a better life because of these policies. Here are a few examples of policies that I appreciate as a.

[Tim Whitaker]

Sorry, I missed that. Go ahead.

[April Lajoy]

I'm sorry. I'm just saying false to what he said.

[Tim Whitaker]

I said pause. Sorry. I was like. Wait, are you saying pause.

[April Lajoy]

Sorry.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay.

[Franklin Graham]

President Trump appointed on the judicial benches, conservative judges and Roe v Rovers weight was overturned. I never thought it'd be overturned in my life.

[April Lajoy]

Pause, Pause, pause, pause. Detrimental to my daughters because if they were to ever get pregnant and have an eptopic, ep. Toxic ectopic pregnancy. I always stumble on that word, have an ectopic pregnancy or have a miscarriage and are requiring a dnc, which is the exact same thing as an abortion.

[Franklin Graham]

Yeah.

[April Lajoy]

The way that conservatives want to ban abortion and we've already seen it happen would make it illegal for a doctor to give life saving care to my daughters or to any woman. So the fact that he's saying he's making it safer for our grandchildren is a blatant lie. And you can debate the morality of what you believe about abortion another time. But the fact matter is that abortion is health. Care that does save lives.

[Tim Whitaker]

I'm not sure if you saw the articles, but there is. Right now, the Trump administration is diverting all pregnant teenage girls who are coming across the border into one facility where they will not give them access to abortions. So there are girls who have been sexually assaulted who are pregnant, and they're being forced to carry those pregnancies to full term as we speak. Like that. That. You can fact check me on it. It's the Guardian. The Guardian article. So I can see you typing over there. I know you're like, wait, is that.

[April Lajoy]

No, no, no, no. I believe you. I, I, I saw someone. I'm fact checking a different thing because I saw some people claiming that there were ICE agents assaulting women in des that are in detention centers and that some of them have got pregnant. But I, I'm trying to fact check that.

[Tim Whitaker]

I don't fact check me.

[April Lajoy]

Let's see. Yeah. Former ICE special agent arrested on federal civil rights charges that allege he sexually assaulted two women. Regardless, let me find the article here. That's terrible, though. I mean, honestly, the, the conditions of these ICE detention centers are, they're bad.

[Tim Whitaker]

It's a whole different discussion. It's horrible.

[April Lajoy]

Yeah.

[Tim Whitaker]

Here you go. Hold on. This is the. I did the other headline.

[April Lajoy]

Did pregnant and postpartum women face neglect and abuse?

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah. On live here on the Guardian. US moving pregnant immigrants girls. US moving pregnant immigrant girls to Texas to avoid providing abortions. Critics say ex official calls transfer of unaccompanying girls as young as 13, many pregnant due to assault, a human rights violation. So that is happening, like, as we speak.

[April Lajoy]

Hey, everyone, this is Melinda Hale, the executive director of the New Evangelicals. Listen. Every day we hear from people who

[Tim Whitaker]

feel isolated, disillusioned and hurt by a version of Christianity that has been hijacked by politics and nationalism.

[April Lajoy]

And yet they still long for a

[Tim Whitaker]

faith that is rooted in love, justice, and compassion. And that's why the New Evangelicals exist, because we believe there is a better path forward. We're creating resources, hosting conversations, and we're building communities for people who want to reclaim Christianity and stay rooted in the teachings of Jesus. But building a movement like this takes time, it takes energy, and it takes financial support. So if this podcast or our YouTube, our educational offerings or community space or any, anything that we've created has impacted you, would you consider becoming a donor? Even a gift of $5 makes a

[April Lajoy]

huge difference for small organizations like this.

[Tim Whitaker]

Your support helps us to continue empowering people to put their faith into action

[April Lajoy]

by Rejecting Christian nationalism and to live

[Tim Whitaker]

in a way that shows people how to truly love our neighbors together. I know that we could build something beautiful. So visit theneweevangelicals.com support to give today. Can find the link right in our show notes.

[April Lajoy]

Thank you for standing with us.

[Tim Whitaker]

Anyway. Okay. Want to keep going?

[April Lajoy]

Yeah. And by the way, I could not find anything that said that a nice agent mate impregnated a girl. So

[Tim Whitaker]

thank you.

[April Lajoy]

Forget that. I. I said that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. But I cannot find anything.

[Tim Whitaker]

We can't find hard evidence, but we would not be surprised. I'll put it that way.

[April Lajoy]

Yeah, they have definitely assaulted them. There's articles on that.

[Franklin Graham]

That's because of President Trump. He supports religious freedom like no other president in my lifetime. All presidents have talked about it, but haven't done anything. He talks about it and then he does something about it. I was with him in, excuse me, in 2019 at the United nations when he spoke to the entire United nations about religious freedom. Encouraging the world to honor those people of faith, not just the Christian faith, but to honor people of faith and protect them.

[Tim Whitaker]

Unless they're Muslims.

[Franklin Graham]

No president's ever done that unless they're Muslims.

[Tim Whitaker]

I mean, he just. The amount of Islamophobia coming out of this regime and the right is so wild that for Franklin Graham to really say that with a straight face, I mean, it's almost comical. Like, dude, have you seen what Ali Stuckey said? Have you seen Nick Shirley's bs, You know, story on the Somali immigrants, most of which who are Muslim? Like, are your eyes and ears working?

[April Lajoy]

Because they say religious freedom, but what they mean is Christian supremacy.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, Christian privilege. Yeah.

[April Lajoy]

Specifically, like their narrow idea of Christianity, their conservative fundamentalist view of Christianity, because we would not fall under their idea of, yeah, you know, Christian freedom.

[Franklin Graham]

One, thank God for him as a pastor, Andrew Brunson, remember him? He was in a Turkish prison and they had made up charges. I was going to say trumped up charges, but trumped up charges. It didn't sound like made up charges against him and had him in prison. And when Trump came to office, he asked Aragon to let him go. And Aragon just ignored President Trump. And. And what did he do? He put some financial screws on Turkey and their lira started taking a nose dive. They lost millions and they let Andrew Brunson out of prison like he was a hot potato. I mean, he was gone that fast. As the secular socialists in our country were wanting to take Christ out of Christmas, they Made a big deal and corporate America was on board with it. Taking Christ out of Christmas.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, my God.

[Franklin Graham]

Happy holiday, Mary X. Ms. Putting the X where Christ's name was. Trump comes to office and he starts saying, merry Christmas.

[Tim Whitaker]

This is so great.

[Franklin Graham]

You say, well, Franklin, that's such a. That's a little thing. No, it's not a little thing. It was huge because it put the woke world on notice that we're not going to take it anymore.

[Tim Whitaker]

This is. This is the cringiest thing I've ever heard someone say. Maybe in the past, like, year. I mean, you are still on this kick. You think that Joe Biden, the devout Catholic, didn't say Merry Christmas at some point?

[April Lajoy]

You really think that it literally takes two seconds to find several examples of Joe Biden and Barack Obama saying Merry Christmas.

[Tim Whitaker]

It is. When we say that these folks live in an alternate universe. This is a perfect example of what we mean. Because what he just said is not true. It is a fabricated version of a delusion where they think that whoever they, whoever they're imagining when they think of the word woke somehow, like, doesn't celebrate Christmas, or all the progressive Christians don't like Christmas, or the fact that maybe a Walmart greeter says Happy Holidays because they don't know who they're talking to and they recognize that other people might celebrate a different holiday during that time somehow that's like a negative thing. And Franklin Graham is like, we're not gonna take it anymore. Not gonna take what?

[April Lajoy]

This is a perfect example of that famous quote that I can't remember who said it, but that's that equality feels like oppression to the oppressor. So they are. They are playing into this victim persecution narrative based on zero evidence. So the idea that people came along and said, hey, there's Kwanzaa, there's Hanukkah, There are other holidays happening around this time. And you don't know whether someone is celebrating which one someone's celebrating, as you said. So it might. It was encouraged. Like, hey, you could just say Happy Holidays if you don't know who you're talking to. But no one ever said to stop saying Merry Christmas. And I fully believed the war on Christmas narrative. I remember watching a Bill O'Reilly segment where he was just going off classic because there were some corporate people that started saying Happy Holidays, which again, is not anti Christmas. It's just being inclusive of other holidays. But I bought it hook, line and sinker. I remember I would go into department stores and aggressively say Merry Christmas to people like Expecting to get pushback because then it could be a cool little persecution story. I could go back and tell my small group, but I do think the reason why. Okay, can I just give you my, my theory on why they still bring up the war on Christmas in March, Mind you, in frickin March, because one, a lot of things are going bad for Mecca right now. In fact, at cpac, there was a lot of riff, especially over the Iran war, because Trump promised no new wars and he has not honored that promise. And there was already a rift happening because of the Epstein files. But do you know what rallies the base more than anything? A Christian persecution story.

[Tim Whitaker]

That's true.

[April Lajoy]

If they can convince you that the radical left is trying to take your Christian rights away, then suddenly everyone can come back together again and good graces. Because, yeah, we're a little upset with Trump, but he's still better than the big bad.

[Tim Whitaker]

That's right.

[April Lajoy]

Christ hating liberals. And so that's why they keep bringing it up. And also, I think in a way it's subconscious way for them to feel like they're actually being good Christians. Because Jesus said, if the world hates, you know, it hated me first and basically saying that if you are a true follower of me, you will not be liked by the world. But American Christians, white American Christians are not persecuted in America.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yep.

[April Lajoy]

And so, but, and that goes against what Jesus said. Blessed are the persecuted.

[Tim Whitaker]

That's right.

[April Lajoy]

So how do we become persecuted if we're not actually persecuted?

[Tim Whitaker]

Right.

[April Lajoy]

You make it up.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right? You make it up.

[April Lajoy]

Make it up.

[Tim Whitaker]

You just show your persecution kink and you just make it up because you have, I mean, what. That's what happens, right. When you're the most privileged Christians to ever live arguably in the history of the world, and you believe that you have to be persecuted, you start doing persecuting and then when you get pushed back, that's when you claim persecution. Oh, yeah, right. And I just want to add, I just want to add, I'm not sure about you, April, but there have been a few times in my life where I said Merry Christmas to the wrong person. They're like, actually, I'm Jewish, or actually, it's something else. I, I felt so awkward and so bad, like, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry, I didn't know that. Happy Holidays is just a very safe thing to say because you don't know what people celebrate. And by the way, the Christmas industry is like a multibillion dollar industry anyway. We all know this. It's just so annoying well, and I've

[April Lajoy]

had people literally come up to me and say, like, in a department store, they, you know, if I bought something, they would say happy Holidays. And a lot of times I say Merry Christmas because I live in the South. But there had been a few handful of times where someone would say happy Holidays. This was back when I was conservative. And I would aggressively say back, merry Christmas.

[Tim Whitaker]

Merry Christmas.

[April Lajoy]

Yeah. And then almost every time, the person would say, oh, yes, Merry Christmas.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, yeah. And then move on.

[April Lajoy]

It was literally never a big deal.

[Tim Whitaker]

And guess what? Then they forgot about you. Then they forgot about you.

[Franklin Graham]

People were.

[Tim Whitaker]

They weren't like, you know, that young girl reminded me of the reason for the season, Christmas. You know, I should find a church. No, no, that doesn't happen. All right? We could be here all day.

[April Lajoy]

The amount of people. Franklin Graham's not the only one that make it seem like Donald Trump is the first president to ever say Merry Christmas. And that, like, okay, the, the cognitive dissonance that it takes for people like Franklin Graham to know. He knows. All these MAGA people know that they have never stopped saying Merry Christmas.

[Tim Whitaker]

Never.

[April Lajoy]

They've always been able to say Merry Christmas, and yet they still are spreading this idea that Donald Trump allowed them to say Merry Christmas again. It's. It's like the same people that are like, I am done being silent when they have never shut up ever. Like, you've never been silent in your life.

[Tim Whitaker]

Franklin Graham is making a lot of money speaking at a huge event, and he really thinks that until Trump came along, he was really silenced and persecuted.

[April Lajoy]

So stupid.

[Tim Whitaker]

The cognitive dissonance is. It's out. It's outrageous. Franklin.

[April Lajoy]

Okay, yes, let's keep going, Franklin.

[Franklin Graham]

You know what? Thank God for him. President Trump is on a mission in his own words. His mission is to make America great again. Each of you here at CPAC is also on a mission. One, to advance and defend the conservative politics that has made America great. You're on a mission to promote conservative values, including God, family, country.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay, I need to say this. Those should not be conservative values. Many Christians who are not, many people who are not conservative have a. Have a belief in God, have a great family and love their country. I refuse to let these MAGA people own the corner on terms that are truly neutral. They are neutral terms. Many non conservative people, probably even most, have some form of all three of those things. So, Franklin, you don't own the corner on that. And I'm going to blow his mind when the tyrannical Joe Biden was In office, you were still allowed to believe in God, you were still allowed to have a family, and you were still allowed to love your country. I know it's crazy to believe, but. But even back in the dark days of the Biden administration, that was still a thing.

[April Lajoy]

Yeah. And as a Christian myself, I felt much safer with my family under Joe Biden than I do.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes.

[April Lajoy]

Under Donald Trump.

[Tim Whitaker]

Me too. Living in New Jersey, a very blue state, I. I feel safer for my kids. I think my schools are safer. We have. We have not had any kind of major gun violence in New Jersey in schools in decades. Okay. I. I feel a lot safer, but. All right, whatever.

[April Lajoy]

Yeah. And what this also, this is an example of how sneaky Christian nationalism is where he's not overtly saying. I mean, I guess depending on how you look at it, it is overt. But he's. He's being sneaky in. In this fact that he's saying conservative values stand for God, family, and country. What he's not saying, but is the message that is coming through is that anyone that is not conservative is anti God, anti family, and anti country.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right, Right. Yep. And we have the corner on the true versions of that. So progressive Christians aren't real Christians, queer families aren't real families, and liberals aren't. Aren't really. Are not real lovers of their country. Right. They're all counterfeits. Yeah, absolutely.

[Franklin Graham]

You're on a mission to fight against the WOKE culture, critical race theory, transgender ideology, everything else that threatens to infect our families and churches and workplaces and schools with godless anti American agenda.

[Tim Whitaker]

What? We're back to critical race theory? We're back to CRT.

[April Lajoy]

Like, really? That was so 2020.

[Tim Whitaker]

I mean, Frankie, my guy, you're a little behind. And by the way, we should clarify, transgender ideology doesn't exist. It's not a thing. Trans people exist. The end. The end, the end. And people should be educated about other people that live and move differently through the world. That's not indoctrination. That's not turning that. That's not transing kids. That's just making people aware that. That some people. Right. Live differently than other people. That's all we're talking about. But for Franklin Graham, it's the war on God. It's a war on God.

[April Lajoy]

Science backs up the existence of trans people. Trans people have always existed. So saying it's trans ideology is. Is truly an idiotic statement. It would be like saying redhead ideology, you know, which. When reality redheads just exist. I don't have Some kind of other ideology?

[Tim Whitaker]

Because you're backstrating me with your red hair. Are you gonna. Are you gonna. Are you gonna turn my hair red, April? Is that what's gonna happen if I. If I. If you and I hang out? Am I gonna catch the red hair? I mean that. You're right.

[April Lajoy]

That's how dumb it sounds. A teacher in a school, they'd say I was red. Zing. Kids.

[Tim Whitaker]

That's how dumb that sounds. Yeah. Yeah. Okay,

[Franklin Graham]

I want to take a moment to give a warning.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, boy. Go ahead.

[April Lajoy]

Oh, a warning. Okay.

[Franklin Graham]

Conservatives do have a problem. Oh, that problem is unity. The lack of it. At times, sometimes it seems like we eat our own.

[Tim Whitaker]

I see where it's going.

[Franklin Graham]

Leaders and influencers need to have a united front. It seems like we are so easily divided against each other, attacking one another. We can discuss our differences, but do it with respect, without attacking and tearing down the other person. Save that for the socialists who want to make America weak again. Beware of mainstream media. They are not your friends.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay, really quick. You know, I. Franklin Graham, had a real opportunity there to call out Nick Fuentes in, like, the far, far right that is currently saying some horrific anti Semitic stuff that is talking about how they. How much they love Hitler and Stalin and how women deserve to be assaulted. He had a great moment there to say, actually, we should divide over that. Right? That should be a thing that we are separate from. And instead he does the opposite, right? Because he has to know who Nick Fuentes is. He has to know who's in the. The broad waters that he swims in. And instead of calling for the division where it matters, that, hey, we shouldn't be like those people who want to celebrate Hitler, he calls for unity. I just think it's telling. I think it's telling.

[April Lajoy]

I think. I don't think he's even talking about Nick Fuentes when he's talking about division. I think he's talking about people like Marjorie Taylor Greene who are no longer MAGA over the Epstein files. I think he's talking about the people that are calling out Trump. I don't think he's even thinking about the antisemitism in his party, in my opinion.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, you're probably right. It's amazing how he loves to wage war on the left and the woke, whatever they are. But he won't call out the actual problems inside of his own camp. Instead, the answer is to unify. It's just. It's wild to me. Like, don't Epstein files. We have to unify over that. That's what we're talking about here.

[April Lajoy]

Right. It's interesting because I, I will say there has definitely been more infighting in the last year because Donald Trump has pretty obviously gone against his campaign promises and people believed him somehow, despite him lying from day one. But really, until this last year, the right, for the most part, has been, I think, much more unified than the left. And, like, their only litmus test is whether or not you support Donald Trump. And the moment you stopped supporting Donald Trump, you were kicked out. Think Adam Kinzinger. Thank Mitt Romney, thank Liz Cheney.

[Tim Whitaker]

They're all right, right?

[April Lajoy]

The new unity test was whether or not you support Donald Trump, regardless of the terrible things that came out about him.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah. 100. All right, here we go.

[Franklin Graham]

And they never will be your friends. Oh, they'll cozy up to some of you and don't trust it. They like to put doubts and little seats. I was won't. There was a mainline reports last week had on their website that it said that the Iran war is a problem for Trump's base. Really a problem for Trump's base. I thought, well, I'm a part of that base. Nobody asked me about it. I don't have a problem.

[Tim Whitaker]

Of course you don't.

[Franklin Graham]

You're more than everyone else I've talked with. You don't have a problem. But they'll put the little seeds about, like, you know, it's a problem for Trump's base. And there are people out there who will read that or hear that and they'll think, oh, maybe, well, maybe I ought to not support this. Or maybe that's. This is what the media do. They plant little seeds of doubt. They want to have his base have doubt.

[Tim Whitaker]

Don't forget, it was Charlie Kirk, before he was killed, who said that if we invaded Iran, it'd be a disaster. Trump himself ran on the platform of no new wars. The media isn't planting seeds of doubt. They're actually just demons. They're asking the question, wait, what happened to no new wars? And a lot of people inside the Trump world are divided over this. A lot of people are not happy that we are using taxpayer money at the tune of $1 billion a day to bomb a country that wasn't doing anything to us, that was just doing their thing, like, and we don't know the reason why. We still don't know why. Right. Wasn't it Trump, or was it. Maybe it was Caroline Levitz who was like, trump had a feeling like, that's what we're talking about here. We still don't know why we started this. So again, Franklin is just straight up delusional here. There absolutely is a rip about this. And Trump himself ran on the campaign promise of no new wars. And guess what? It wasn't Joe Biden that invaded another country. It was Trump. I think that is worth highlighting here.

[April Lajoy]

Yeah.

[Franklin Graham]

Listen, we only have one shot at this, okay? Make it work. Be cautious of people with podcasts and social media platforms who make money by views, clicks, and the number of followers they have.

[April Lajoy]

I would agree with that.

[Franklin Graham]

If they can cause a stir, if they can get a debate.

[Tim Whitaker]

He's talking about Nick here. I think so for sure. Or Candace.

[Franklin Graham]

It will serve them and they will profit from it. They like to cause a stir because they can profit, because more people will tune in, listen to their podcast or watch their whatever. Be careful of these people. And some of them have some real extreme views.

[April Lajoy]

See, you're right.

[Franklin Graham]

Turns are coming and how critical this is. Some people feel that with AI it may be impossible to have fair elections.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, my. Are you kidding?

[Franklin Graham]

I think it's going to be difficult. Others have said the goal of AI is to control the world's messaging, not just in the United States, but the world.

[Tim Whitaker]

How would AI make voting less safe? Because a person still has to vote. AI can't pick up a ballot. You can't vote online. You can vote in by mail, or you can vote in by person. Those are the two major ways anyway. How would AI do either of those things?

[April Lajoy]

I know this feels like a misdirection in order to, yeah, I don't know, promote the SAVE act or like. Because the fact is Republicans are the ones that are actively trying to, like, mess, like, rig the upcoming election.

[Tim Whitaker]

They are. The SAVE act would be a disaster. Right. It would disenfranchise millions of people, especially women, from voting. And we know that in Franklin's world, there's an ongoing push to repeal the 19th Amendment, which again, Franklin so far hasn't mentioned. Interesting. Yeah, totally. This is a huge misdirection. Huge.

[April Lajoy]

Yeah, I think we share that. He might have been talking about Nick Fuentes earlier.

[Tim Whitaker]

I think we shared on the. On the last live that we did, or maybe it was two lives ago, that in Utah they counted one. One vote that was fraudulent from an undocumented person. There was one vote in their last election, one that was cast by someone who was not here legally. 1. So I need a little bit more than one vote in the state of Utah to prove that we have an election integrity problem. I'm sorry, I just do, like, call me wild or crazy, but I just need more evidence.

[April Lajoy]

Are they using that one? Is Utah using that one vote as a reason to redistrict?

[Tim Whitaker]

No, but what I'm saying is, like, they keep on saying, election integrity, secure elections. I need the evidence. I need because we have tons of data. Our election fraud is incredibly rare. In fact, this was a big thing that I had to research during 2020 when Trump was like, fraud everywhere. There was data that came out every elect. When you have 300 million people potentially, or however many a hundred million people voting, of course you're gonna have examples of someone not voting the right way or an example of fraud that happens every election. The question is, is there enough of that to sway the results or the outcome of an election? And just like all, just like in our previous elections, certainly there were maybe a few hundred cases, maybe even a thousand cases of election fraud over 50 states, but none of that was nearly enough to sway the outcome of the election. Right. And so it's just so frustrating because they use these, like, one off examples of things that, that absolutely do do happen, but ultimately are, are, are, you know, they're, they're not important. Like, they had no impact on the result. And they use those examples to prove that, that now we need more secure elections, which means giving the federal government, now that Trump's in charge, more power over states and how they vote. In fact, one of the things about the SAVE act, if it was to pass, which I don't think it's gonna, is that it would force states to hand over their voter rolls to dhs. DHS would compare their roles with the state's roles, and if they didn't add up, they would purge whatever names weren't on the list. That is a huge overstep of the federal government that we know, especially under Trump, would be used to rig the election. Not even a question. So it's just important that we spell that out, you know?

[April Lajoy]

Yeah, agreed. Yes, I know.

[Tim Whitaker]

Are you reading something?

[April Lajoy]

Yes, I was. Yes. Continue.

[Franklin Graham]

Okay, agree. John the Revelator tells us in the book that he penned, the Book of Revelations in the Bible, that the day is coming when there will be a one world government and it will be controlled by a person called the Antichrist. That's what the Bible calls it, the Antichrist. And you know what? In that day may be here sooner than you think, it's extremely important that we get behind candidates who support President Trump's agenda. And it's important that we get These people elected.

[Tim Whitaker]

Wow.

[Franklin Graham]

President Trump is not on the ballot.

[April Lajoy]

He's not a Republican.

[Franklin Graham]

His policies are. And we need to have a united front and go out there and win these midterms. If we don't, we're going to be through.

[Tim Whitaker]

This is good. Yes, please go vote, people. You heard the man. If they lose, they're through. So this is our one chance.

[April Lajoy]

Don't get me.

[Tim Whitaker]

We agree.

[Franklin Graham]

Let me just remind you what's coming. The democrat socialist agenda. They want to take away parent rights. They want teachers and their unions to be the moral guide and the final voice for your children. That's what they want. Is not the Social Democrats. I call them the Socialist Democrats because it's the Socialist Democratic Party of America.

[Tim Whitaker]

I wish they were. I wish we had a real socialist Democratic Party in this. I wish we did. Chuck Schumer is not a democratic socialist. Guys, like I, I don't know. Nancy Pelosi is not a socialist. Like, what are we talking about?

[April Lajoy]

What they're talking about when it comes to parent rights is certain places. Basically at school, if a child is queer.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes.

[April Lajoy]

And people are queer. That is a fact.

[Tim Whitaker]

It's a fact.

[April Lajoy]

People are born that way.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes.

[April Lajoy]

That if a child is queer, they don't like the idea that a teacher would be accepting of that child 100% and not inform the parents.

[Tim Whitaker]

But don't forget, April, if you're a parent and you and you have a trans child, you are not allowed to parent them and get them access to affordable to safe health care, to gender affirming care. No, you can't do that. You can't parent your child like that. That is a no go. But what you can do right, is, is, is this. Whatever. You know what I'm saying? You know, it's just like you can't,

[April Lajoy]

they can't have it both ways. They can't say that. Well, parents rights teachers must tell their parents if a child wants to go by a nickname or go by different pronouns and also take rights away from parents of trans kids who are trying to get gender affirming care.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes.

[April Lajoy]

Which is not surgeries when they're minors. That is also a misconception. What is happening? But yeah, like I don't. The hard part is like I, I would want to know whatever was going on with my child. So I understand them wanting a teacher to inform someone if hey, so and so is going by a different pronoun. But, but that can also be dangerous and detrimental to that child if the parents are super bigoted and might send the kid off to conversion therapy.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes.

[April Lajoy]

Or like, like there's been study after study after study that growing up in an unaffirming household le, like, really raises the risk of self harm 100% in queer kids.

[Tim Whitaker]

100%. Yeah. No, you're right. All right, let's keep going. We got about seven minutes left.

[April Lajoy]

Oh, okay.

[Franklin Graham]

They want to support the transgender agenda.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, my God.

[Franklin Graham]

They're support transitioning young children. That is so wicked.

[Tim Whitaker]

And so these people are obsessed with genitals. They are obsessed with people's sex lives. They're obsessed with people's genitals. How about you talk about, about the affordable health care problem, Frank? How do you talk about the fact that most Americans can't get livable wages at their full time job? That we can't afford housing, we can't afford groceries? Like, how about we talk about the predatory student loan system in this country that is bankrupting people by the age of 19 or 20? No, we're not going to talk about that. We're going to talk about trans people. All like 1% of them. That's what frustrates me, is like, not only is this a ridiculous, dehumanizing approach, it also ignores the real issues in this country that we could fix if we wanted to. If Congress can find $200 billion for a useless war in Iran, we can find money to extend the Affordable Care act subsidies. We can find the money to make sure that every kid in America is fed for free at school. We can find the money to make sure that SNAP benefits are fully funded and even expanded. We could do that. We just choose not to because people like Frank are too busy convincing their base and their audience that the real threat is the trans person. The real threat is the kid who needs gender affirming care to save their lives. That's the problem with America.

[April Lajoy]

They would rather see dead kids than trans kids.

[Tim Whitaker]

100%. It's tragic to say, but it's true. It's true.

[Franklin Graham]

What they support, that's what. If they get into power, this is what's coming. This is what they're going to bring in. They won't allow men in women's sports. They're behind that. They want boys.

[April Lajoy]

How many of this list is just about trans people?

[Tim Whitaker]

So far, that's all I've heard.

[April Lajoy]

Literally.

[Tim Whitaker]

So obsessed, obsessed, obsessed.

[Franklin Graham]

And exposing themselves to your daughters and granddaughters in locker rooms.

[April Lajoy]

Oh, my gosh. A man does not have to dress like a woman to go into women's spaces and assault them.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yep.

[April Lajoy]

I have never Once felt unsafe with a trans woman in a bathroom or a locker room with me. But I have felt unsafe about white Christ around white Christian men countless times.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah. In fact, sometimes in public bathrooms now, like, there's more and more of, like, these, like, common, like, you know, gender neutral bathrooms where there are individual stalls and it's like, it's like a communal sink. Whenever I'm in one of those and I walk out and there's a woman at the sink, I am so freaking careful to like, to keep a big distance because I know that the threat is not the trans woman. The threat is someone who looks like me in a bathroom next to a woman. You know what I mean? Like, that's the issue. It's not trans women. It's white men like me who do this kind of stuff. Right. Who look like me. I should say not like me. Yeah, yeah. A little distinction. Okay, let's keep going.

[Franklin Graham]

Those are underwear and everything. Just standing there naked in front of your granddaughters and your daughters.

[Tim Whitaker]

Obsessed.

[Franklin Graham]

It's so wicked. They want to sexualize everything at an earlier and earlier age.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, April, do you have something to say about that? Go ahead, April. Go off. Go off.

[April Lajoy]

Do you know what sexualized me, Franklin? Being eight years old and told to cover up my shoulders because grown ass men like you might lust after me? That is actually sexualizing children, not the existence of trans people.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yep, yep. The church sexualizes people so quickly. Especially young girls. Especially.

[April Lajoy]

Yes.

[Tim Whitaker]

Cover up. Make sure your chest isn't too low, your shoulders aren't showing, your skirts below the knees, whatever, the ankles, whatever it might be, because, you know, the elder down, down the pew might be lusting after you. That's crazy. But no, no, no. The real problem is, is the sexualization of children in schools. What does that even mean? They're being educated on how their bodies work. Which they should be. Which they should be. Because the church sure is. Hell ain't going to do it.

[April Lajoy]

I've gotten sex ed through the church Conversation.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah.

[April Lajoy]

The lack of sex education in these spaces is truly laughable.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah.

[Franklin Graham]

They support killing life in the womb.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, here we go.

[Franklin Graham]

The socialist Democrats want to have open borders. They want to legalize drugs. They want to defend or defund the police. They want to open up the jails and let criminals go back on the streets where they can rape, murder and steal.

[April Lajoy]

Hold on, hold on.

[Tim Whitaker]

Go ahead.

[April Lajoy]

Is he forgetting that Donald Trump pardoned 1500 insurrectionists, many of whom have been rearrested?

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes.

[April Lajoy]

For crimes.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes. One was rearrested for having CSAM child abuse material. Yes, yes, Donald Trump pardons criminals all the freaking time who then go on to reoffend. But no, it's Joe Biden who did that. Like and is doing that. Apparently this is he treats it Guys, don't forget, right, that the Republicans or MAGA controls the House, they control the Senate, they control the presidency, they control the Supreme Court. And somehow it's still all about being afraid of the quote unquote socialist Democrats. They're the problem with this country right

[April Lajoy]

now because they need their persecution narrative.

[Tim Whitaker]

They need their, they need their boogeyman.

[April Lajoy]

Yeah, it's the only thing that keeps them going. Hi, my name is Jennifer Lee. I live in Phoenix, Arizona and I'm a proud T and E Monthly supporter. I found T and E a couple years ago, but I've been chasing down content like this for years now. In 2017 I had a nervous breakdown. This was partially as a result of being a closeted lesbian raised in an unaffirming Southern Baptist Christian home. That awakening for me brought many gifts, one of which is the passion I now have for understanding the actual Bible, radical Christianity, and an ever widening understanding of what it means to truly follow Jesus in today's world. A second gift is the work I get to do in the world. I'm a physical therapist with an expertise in the treatment of anxiety and chronic pain. The reality is that the medical profession hasn't yet fully acknowledged the depth and complexity of the human body to hold physical or emotional pain and trauma. This is compounded by the fact that historically, we aren't taught a healthy way of expression until we're forced to by necessity in the form of pain or dis ease. The work I do enables me to stand proudly in a nuanced area incorporating how we can witness, access and release this tension from the body to improve someone's life. The crossover between Tim's mission for T and E and my mission for my practice is undeniable. We both see the potential for a better, brighter future for the work in the world that we do. So I will happily continue to support T and E and advocate for a more inclusive, expansive future for everyone.

[Tim Whitaker]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same Premium Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying.

[Franklin Graham]

It's not just for celebrities, so do

[Tim Whitaker]

like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to [e-mail]

[April Lajoy]

Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month required. Intro rate, first 3 months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees, extra fee, full terms@mint mobile.com.

[Tim Whitaker]

Let's keep it going.

[Franklin Graham]

Got our military and take that money and give it to social programs. Maybe like up in Minnesota helping the Somalis. I don't know.

[Tim Whitaker]

Great. By the way. Great. I would hope so. I would love to see less of our money go towards the military industrial complex that builds bombs instead goes to people in America to help support them. I would love to see that. I would love to see our military budget be cut. Which by the way, even under Biden, he increased the military budget. Okay. So it's not like he was some altruistic, you know, or that, that, that, that his, you know, presidency and the Democrats were all about it. No. They also increased the military spending. I would love to see lower military

[April Lajoy]

at the top of this speech where he said he wasn't a Republican.

[Tim Whitaker]

No, not that at all.

[April Lajoy]

Franklin Graham, like, I'm not a Republican, but Here is a 20 minute speech of me saying every single Republican talking

[Tim Whitaker]

point, every single one, like Ali Stuckey is probably in the room just standing up applauding. Yes, Franklin, yes. Amen. Amen.

[April Lajoy]

The God, same thing she does. I'm not a Christian nationalist.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, right, right.

[April Lajoy]

But I'm going to repeat every single Christian nationalist talking point.

[Tim Whitaker]

I'm not political. I just followed the Bible. Yeah, exactly.

[Franklin Graham]

This is just some of their agenda.

[Tim Whitaker]

Just some.

[Franklin Graham]

And I believe it's an agenda that's birthed in hell. I really do. Because it stands. Because this.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes. Less bombs and more feeding of people from hell.

[April Lajoy]

Yeah, that is Satan's greatest trick is loving neighbors, feeding them and lowering the

[Tim Whitaker]

amount of weapons that kill people on this planet. Yeah, no, that's, that's plan God. Satanic.

[Franklin Graham]

That stands against God. Stands against him and his creation.

[Tim Whitaker]

Delusional.

[Franklin Graham]

We need to pray for our nation, ask God for help. We need to work together to have a united front in order to support President Trump's mission.

[Tim Whitaker]

Don't forget, this is Trump's. Trump is someone who assaults women. He was best friends with the world's most prolific pedophile. He has accusations that he himself is a pedophile. And Franklin Graham is up here with a straight face claiming to represent God, the Christian God, and saying, we have to back Trump's plan. We have to back the Trump administration. That's demonic. That is Antichrist. That is from the depths of hell.

[April Lajoy]

I Feel like Trump's actual mission is just to not go to jail.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, for sure.

[April Lajoy]

At this point.

[Tim Whitaker]

For sure. And again, so far, Franklin Graham has not given one policy example that has promoted this version of human flourishing that he insists is happening. I'm still waiting for it. What has Trump done that has given more people or has given people money?

[April Lajoy]

He did say one thing.

[Tim Whitaker]

What do you say? I'm sorry.

[April Lajoy]

They can say Merry Christmas again.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, you're right. You're right. No, you're right. And because of that, my kids can eat. Because of that, my healthcare is affordable. Thank God.

[Franklin Graham]

But today I want to talk to you about the most important mission.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, here we go.

[Franklin Graham]

In history.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, here we go.

[Franklin Graham]

Jesus Christ came on a redemption mission. That's right. Easter is just around the corner. But what does that mean for us? You see, God made us, God created us. He loves us. But man can. Mankind has a problem, and that problem is called sin. The Bible says we've all sinned and come short of God's glory. The Bible tells us that the wages of sin is death. Every one of us, including Franklin Graham, is a sinner. When God created the first man and woman, he put them in a perfect world and gave. Gave them the freedom to choose. That's right. The freedom to choose. Gave them that freedom. And as a result of that, they chose to disobey God. And that's what sin is. Sin is disobedience to God.

[Tim Whitaker]

I just want to say this is like, the most quintessential like, evangelical gospel message that you can possibly get. This is he's hitting every single one of, like, the talking points in order. And I also want to just let our. Our non Christian audience know that this is one very specific telling of the quote, unquote, good news that many Christians, I would argue even most on the planet, would not agree with. Just to be clear about that.

[Franklin Graham]

They disobeyed God and as a result, sin came into the world and has infected the entire human race.

[Tim Whitaker]

Except for Maga.

[Franklin Graham]

It's like a cancer of the human soul. Franklin Graham is a sinner. Franklin Graham has sinned against God. And the penalty, the wages of sin, is death. And God has placed the entire world on a death sentence over all mankind. A death sentence he's placed over them. Can you.

[April Lajoy]

Can you clarify? Did you say most Christians would not agree with what he's just saying?

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, would not.

[April Lajoy]

Because of, like, penal substitution in the tournament?

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, like his telling of the Gospel account. You know, even the idea. It's just there's a lot of pieces here that like there might be elements of like part of the gospel story, but how he's telling it, like a lot like Catholics wouldn't agree with this version of events.

[April Lajoy]

Right, right. You're talking about like global Christianity. Because like in America, I would say most evangelicals would be on board with this.

[Tim Whitaker]

No, for white evangelicalism, besides the point of choosing to sin. Because Calvinists would debate that, you know, they were predestined to. But yeah, this is a very evangelical gospel message. But most Christians outside side of that room would be like, this is not how we think about the gospel.

[April Lajoy]

Right.

[Tim Whitaker]

You know, at all.

[April Lajoy]

Which also shows which I think American evangelicalism are like the narcissists of Christianity because they are one, one sect of Christianity of thousands and they will tell you that their truth is the only truth and that they have the only access to God.

[Tim Whitaker]

This is the true gospel. This is, this is the true story. This is the biblical worldview. Etc. Yeah, exactly, exactly.

[Franklin Graham]

But yet God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth him shouldn't perish, but should have everlasting life.

[Tim Whitaker]

I want you guys to hear something. This is really important.

[Franklin Graham]

The wages of sin is death. And God has placed the entire world on a death sentence.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay, he says here that God has placed the entire world on a death sentence. Now listen to what he says here.

[Franklin Graham]

Over all mankind, a death sentence he's placed over them. But yet God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him shouldn't perish, but should have everlasting life.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay, so God has placed a death sentence over the world, but also God loved the world so much that if you believe just like how Franklin Graham believes, you will not burn in hell forever, but you will go to the good place. That's a very weird version of God, this God who hates us.

[April Lajoy]

It makes sense why so many like white evangelicals support the maga world. Because their belief system already holds so much cognitive dissonance that it's easy to make that jump. Like if you genuinely believe that God loves all of us unconditionally, which is what we were taught. And also, if you don't happen to believe the right things, not even about doing the right thing. Right, it's just about believing the right things.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes.

[April Lajoy]

Then God will send you to hell for all of eternity. Those two beliefs contradict each other and yet they hold them at the same time.

[Tim Whitaker]

And if you're a Christian, but have different political beliefs than they do. You're also not a real Christian. You're going to hell.

[April Lajoy]

Right. They would say we are going to hell because we don't just believe what they do.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right. On a theological level, you and I would agree on, like most, you know, historical Christian positions, Trinity, virgin birth, resurrection, et cetera. Right. But because we have different political outcomes, we're now heretics.

[April Lajoy]

We affirm queer people. And that is a step too far.

[Tim Whitaker]

Step too far.

[Franklin Graham]

God sent his son from heaven to this earth to take our sins. You see, there's nothing you can do to save yourself. Or you say, well, frankly, I'm not that bad of a person. That does. That's not the issue. We're all sinners. It just takes one sin to keep you out of heaven.

[Tim Whitaker]

This is, this is, here's why this theology is so dangerous, because this is what they'll say about Trump and the Epstein files. And you like what you said earlier about, you know, God's got a file on all of us. This is the logic. One sin and you're just as bad as. As. As Jeffrey Epstein. Right, Right. If you stole a Candy Bar from 7 11, that's just as bad in God's eyes as Jeffrey Epstein trafficking children.

[April Lajoy]

Even worse in that, in that post he made about Epstein. And he's not the only one that's made this. But he talks about God even knows your worst thought. Yeah, because they equate thoughts.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yep.

[April Lajoy]

As the same thing as doing it.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right.

[April Lajoy]

Because it's like the sin of your heart. Like how many times I say if you lust after someone, it's the same thing as committing adultery. That's not the same thing. To try to make everybody feel like, well, we're all just terrible and disgusting.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, exactly.

[Franklin Graham]

You were born into sin. You were born under this death sentence. There's nothing you can do to save yourself. That's why God sent his son to save you. That's why he came. He took your sins to the cross. He died and shed his blood on a cross for your sins. He was buried in a grave for your sins. And while he hung on that cross, God poured on his son all sins past, all sins present, all sins future. That's us here today. When Jesus Christ hung on that cross, that cross came to the most sinful place in history is the cross. Because that's where God laid all the sins of mankind upon his son. And Jesus Christ died and shed his blood, and he was buried for your sins. But on the third day, God raised him to life. Jesus is not dead. He's alive.

[Tim Whitaker]

It's pretty typical gospel, like, evangelical gospel message is what you're hearing here.

[April Lajoy]

Yeah. Penal substitution atonement.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, exactly.

[Franklin Graham]

But it requires a response. Either we can accept it or reject it. You can believe it. He's about to give an altar call. God is really a God of love. He's not going to send anybody to hell. Oh, really? You really believe that if God is God of love, he's not going to send anybody to hell? Well, yes, he is going to send people to hell. He's going to be. There's going to be millions of conservatives in hell. Yeah. Think about it. If God loves you so much that he allowed his son to die and shed his blood for you and you reject it, he has no choice. He's offering salvation. He's offering forgiveness. But you've got to be willing to accept that to believe it. You've got to be willing to repent of your sins and by faith, believe on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

[Tim Whitaker]

And unless you're Trump, if you're Trump, no repentance necessary. You know, you gotta follow.

[April Lajoy]

Did you see the letter that Franklin Graham wrote Trump, that Trump posted after this?

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes.

[April Lajoy]

About his salvation.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes. Yes. Do you want to find it?

[April Lajoy]

Yeah, I have it. Well, I have the. I don't know. I have the screenshot. Personally, I don't know.

[Tim Whitaker]

All right, let's keep going. Here we go.

[Franklin Graham]

Be safe. If you'll believe on his name and trust him as your savior, you'll be saved. That's all. You don't have to pay money. It's a gift. By grace are we saved through faith, not of our, not of works. Lest anyone should boast, God loves you.

[Tim Whitaker]

Wait, you were going to get me that screenshot?

[Franklin Graham]

I know.

[April Lajoy]

I literally was just thinking. I emailed it to you.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, yeah. Okay. Whoops. Hold on, let me grab it.

[April Lajoy]

Hi, Peter. Because I have it on my end.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay. This is kind of blurry, but we'll try and read it. So this is the letter that. So after Franklin Graham is in the middle of giving this gospel speech about how conservatives are going to hell and, you know, everyone's a sinner. Okay, go ahead. I'm ready. This is what Franklin Graham wrote.

[April Lajoy]

So the reason why this is accurate again, because this letter is actually from last October. October 15th of 2025. But Donald Trump, right after Franklin Graham's speech at CPAC, like the same weekend, re shared this letter on his Truth Social account with no context. He didn't say Anything about it? He just posted a screen grab of the letter. So the letter says, dear President Trump, congratulations. The ceasefire between Israel and Hamas and the hostages being returned home are incredible accomplishments. Your leadership is historic. This is an answer to much prayer. Jesus said, blessed are the peacemakers.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, my God.

[April Lajoy]

And Mr. President, that is what you are.

[Tim Whitaker]

Well, that did not age well, did it?

[April Lajoy]

No, that did not age well at all. Okay, so then he says, this week you commented to the media that you might not be heaven bound. Maybe you responded in jest, but it is an important issue to know for certain that your soul is secure and will spend eternity in the presence of God. The only one who can save us from hell is Jesus Christ. You can't save yourself, I can't save myself. Good works, prominence, success, none of these get us to heaven. The only way to heaven is through the shed blood of Jesus Christ. God requires us to turn from our sins and by faith, believe in our heart that Jesus came to earth, died on the cross for our sins, was buried, and God raised him to life on the third day. If you accept that by faith and invite him to come into your heart, you are heaven bound. I promise you. The Bible says if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. You continue to be in our prayers, as always, your friend, Franklin Graham.

[Tim Whitaker]

Again, I want to be clear, that does not apply to me and April. If me and April say that, we've done that, but our political outworking is different. We are not a true Christian. This is like, this is the catch. That always happens. It's like they'll. When it's someone that they love politically, Trump, all you gotta do is just say you're sorry in your heart and you're good to roll. No repentance necessary. Nothing you need to do to make amends, you're in. But people like us. No, forget it. Nothing we can do, right?

[April Lajoy]

But I will say to his credit, cuz I saw some people online sharing this letter and making it out to seem that Franklin Graham assures Trump he is going to heaven. But he didn't actually do that. He said, if. Yeah, if you do all of those things. But also it's disingenuous because Donald Trump himself, when he was running in the primary in 2015, when asked, have you ever asked God for forgiveness? He said, no, I don't think I have. I've never needed to.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right? But if he responded to Graham and said, thank you, Graham Franklin, I have done that. Franklin would go, well, there it is. There it is. Trump's a born again Christian. Trump is a born again Christian, everyone. As he's dropping bombs in Iran, yada, yada, yada.

[April Lajoy]

Right. Well, and a lot of people on the MAGA side, MAGA Christians do believe that Trump.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah.

[April Lajoy]

Is a Christian. But. But the difference is, like, we always grew up. We talked about this right here. Yeah, yeah.

[Tim Whitaker]

Christ, Trump, persecution of a man.

[April Lajoy]

Well. And we talked about testimonies an episode or two ago and how the only way you have a good testimony, even if you did all these bad things, is you have to actually stop doing those bad things and repent and have a change of heart, which Trump has never done. In fact, he said he's never needed to. And he said that amidst the. Like after the Access Hollywood tape where he bragged about assaulting women.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yep.

[April Lajoy]

He said that in the midst of the. The Stormy Daniels controversy and the. The. The payoff, the hush money. But no, he's. He's never needed to ask God for forgiveness.

[Tim Whitaker]

Just a good. A good man. A good God. If you're. Amen. All right, I'm so over this. Let's keep going and finish this.

[April Lajoy]

I know, I know.

[Franklin Graham]

He loves his country. And I love Donald Trump. Is he perfect? No.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah. He's only best friends with a pedophile. Gee, I mean, how low is the bar? Franklin? My gosh. Oh, my gosh. Okay.

[Franklin Graham]

But I love that guy. I love him. And we'll only have one chance at this. We'll never get another president like Donald Trump. Never.

[Tim Whitaker]

I hope so. Amen. Yeah.

[Franklin Graham]

And that's why it's important that we do everything that we can to try to get him reelected. He stands not only for religious freedom.

[Tim Whitaker]

I'm sorry. Reelected Franklin.

[April Lajoy]

Okay. To be fair, he later came out and clarified and said he misspoke and meant to say get his policies reelected.

[Tim Whitaker]

I'll be honest. I do believe that. I don't think Franklin is. I mean, he's far gone, but I don't think he's in the level, in territory of like, you know, a third term situation. So I. That seems believable here. Okay.

[April Lajoy]

But there are plenty of people in MAGA world that are trying to push for a Trump third term, Steve Bannon

[Tim Whitaker]

being one of them.

[April Lajoy]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Tim Whitaker]

By the way, if Trump does run again, mark my words now on the show, Franklin Graham will find a way to also justify why it's okay. It would happen.

[Franklin Graham]

Christians like no president we've ever had. He's not Afraid. He's not ashamed of the name of Jesus Christ.

[April Lajoy]

Hold on. You gotta find that. He's not.

[Tim Whitaker]

Sorry, we cut it off. I missed something. Key. Okay, hold on. I am blown away.

[April Lajoy]

This is big. This is big and stupid.

[Franklin Graham]

You don't have to pay money. It's a gift. By grace are we saved through faith, not of works, lest anyone should boast. God loves you. He loves this country. And I love Donald Trump. Is he perfect? No. But I love that guy. I love him. And we'll only have one chance at this. We'll never get another president like. Like Donald Trump.

[Tim Whitaker]

Never.

[Franklin Graham]

Yeah. And that's why it's important that we do everything that we can to try to get him reelected. He stands not only for religious freedom, he stands up for Christians like no president we've ever had. And he's not afraid. He's not ashamed of the name of Jesus Christ. Other people are ashamed. He's not ashamed. And I just appreciate that so much about him. But let me just say to all of you here today, ask yourself the question, are my sins forgiven? You say, well, Franklin, I think so. I'm not talking about thinking so. Do you know it? Are your sins forgiven?

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, my gosh.

[Franklin Graham]

If you're. You say, well, I'm not that bad of a person. Yes, you are. We're all sinners in God's eyes.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, I'm not.

[Franklin Graham]

What do I need to do? You need to repent. Just say, God, I'm a sinner. I'm willing to turn from my sins. Because if you come to Christ, you have to turn from those sins.

[Tim Whitaker]

Unless you're Trump, you come to Christ,

[Franklin Graham]

you've got to be willing to turn from those things. And then to trust him and to believe in him. Him, and trust him as. And make him the Lord of your life and follow him in life. You do that, you can have that assurance that if your life came to an end today, that you'd be in the presence of God for eternity. Not because of any good thing you've done. Because of what Christ did on your behalf when he took your sins to the cross. God bless you. And I trust you all will have a great, great week here in Dallas. Got some great speakers coming up and you're going to hear a testimony from a good friend of mine a little while, John Cole. He's done some incredible work.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay, good enough. He's wrapping it up there, so. Wow. Wow, good.

[April Lajoy]

I was just a conflation of your typical evangelical gospel message coupled with the very overt partisan Republican Talking points in the same speech. That is Christian nationalism, people.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes, 101.

[April Lajoy]

Right? Because if you're sitting in there and you're hearing this gospel message, that sounds like something you hear at your church week after week after week, and you are also like your brain also process all those Republican talking points. You have now conflated the gospel with Republicanism completely.

[Tim Whitaker]

And I think it's just worth saying that the idea that the gospel is about praying a prayer so you don't burn in hell forever and you go right to heaven is not even, like, dare I use the term, a biblical perspective. Like, the New Testament authors are much more concerned about the new earth. Like the earth being fixed and being made new again. It's not about heaven, like, even. And by the way, this is just for people to know. This is like conservative scholarship. This is like nt, right? This is not crazy, liberal like theology. I'm throwing at people. The idea that the whole point of the Gospel is to pray a prayer so you don't go to hell is like such a false gospel, frankly. It's such a. It just misses the core of, of the, of the notion of good news. It's. It misses the core of what Jesus announced when he came to earth. It misses so much so even his gospel is BS in my opinion.

[April Lajoy]

Because if you read the teachings of Jesus, Jesus focused so much more on actions and what you do and how you treat your fellow neighbor than he ever focused on having the right set of beliefs.

[Tim Whitaker]

Why would Jesus give us all these teachings? Why would, why would we even have a Bible if all you needed to do was to pray a prayer to the right God and say, I'm sorry and you're going right to heaven. Why? What would be the point of having the red letters, the teachings of the New Testament, the, The letters that we have to. To the church. Why would we need any of that if the whole point was to pray a prayer so you don't burn in hell forever?

[April Lajoy]

Right? And that just gives cover for people to be absolutely terrible their entire life. And then at their deathbed, they just say the prayer and all's forgiven, all's well, they get to go to heaven with everybody else, despite putting in no effort anyway.

[Tim Whitaker]

All right, friends, well, listen, we appreciate you being here. Oh, wait. What's up?

[April Lajoy]

I just want to say one more thing.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, go.

[April Lajoy]

I'm sorry, Go ahead, say it earlier. But Franklin Graham brought up the Antichrist. And it is so wild to me that these people believe in the Antichrist in the end times and have never once considered that Donald Trump could be the Antichrist.

[Tim Whitaker]

Nope, nope, nope. Definitely not him. It's Obama. Still, it's Obama. He's the Antichrist.

[April Lajoy]

Anyway, sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt. That was just.

[Tim Whitaker]

No, I should have asked you if you had more to say. So, friends, thanks again so much for being here. Make sure to leave a comment on this video. Give the video a like. Subscribe to the channel if you're listening on podcast. Thank you so much. It means the world. If you're looking for a better path forward in faith. If you're looking for not just all the nonsense that we cover. But hey, what do I do? Check out the new evangelicals. We have all kinds of community spaces. We have tne action, which is designed to get you involved in local. Are you okay?

[April Lajoy]

Yes, I'm trying to just not be blurry. It's driving me crazy. Okay, I'm sorry.

[Tim Whitaker]

As I was saying, we have things like tne action, which is designed to get you involved in local. What's the word looking for here? Social action initiatives. And we have all kinds. Yeah. Community initiatives. And we have all other. All kinds of free resources. So make sure to go to the new evangelicals on Instagram or to the newevangelicals.com for more. That's all I got. Are you good?

[April Lajoy]

I'm good.

[Tim Whitaker]

Great. I'm Tim Whitaker.

[April Lajoy]

I'm April. A joy.

[Tim Whitaker]

See ya.

[April Lajoy]

Bye.