← The Tim & April Show
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- [00:00]
April Joy
You're listening to a new evangelicals production, The Tim and April show, where we unravel faith, politics and culture.
- [00:23]
Tim Whitaker
You're not here.
- [00:25]
April Joy
How are you?
- [00:26]
Tim Whitaker
I'll bring you into the shot. I forgot. Oh, that's the wrong person. Don't look. There we go. What's up, everyone? Oh, this was a la. We were. We were prepping up until the very last minute. So welcome into the show. I am Tim Whitaker. Oh, you're Muted. April.
- [00:51]
April Joy
I'm April of Joy.
- [00:52]
Tim Whitaker
Wait, you know what? Why don't we do. Why don't we do this singer one more time and just pretend this. This didn't happen?
- [00:57]
April Joy
Red. Oh.
- [01:01]
Tim Whitaker
Welcome in, friends. We have a very busy show because a lot of what happened this week pertains directly to the work that we do to former conservative Christians who now expose Christian nationalism and. Wow, what a week of blasphemy. Am I right, April? Holy smokes.
- [01:17]
April Joy
It has been a week for the history books, for sure. Yeah. I don't even know where one wants to begin, but maybe we should do our announcements first.
- [01:27]
Tim Whitaker
Yes, I was gonna say that. Yeah. Good call.
- [01:31]
April Joy
Oh, you want me to do it? Hey. Yeah. Guess what? Yeah, listen, my. My partner Beecher just had their car breakdown, so I literally had to leave in our prep to go get them. It's fine. We're fine.
- [01:44]
Tim Whitaker
We're fine.
- [01:45]
April Joy
Getting it worked out.
- [01:46]
Tim Whitaker
We're good.
- [01:47]
April Joy
But we're. I'm a little rattled, and I think Kim's a little rattled because there was this big question mark. Will April make it back? So anyway, there's a little behind the scenes of why maybe we're not so on top of things right now. But anywho, Tim and I are actually going to be in the flesh in person, doing. I don't know if a live show is the right term, but we're going to be speaking live at a church in Sarasota, Florida, on a Sunday morning. So I. I mean, it's church. Look at. I think it's church. I think we're just speaking in church.
- [02:21]
Tim Whitaker
We're speaking in church at.
- [02:22]
April Joy
Yeah. At Harvest Fellowship in Sarasota, Florida, on May 17th.
- [02:27]
Tim Whitaker
Yes. And we're very excited. It's gonna be great. And it's a free event. You can come out, no ticket required, just show up.
- [02:34]
April Joy
Totally free. Because it's church.
- [02:35]
Tim Whitaker
Yes. Yes. You do have to tithe, though. No, I'm just kidding. You don't have to do that.
- [02:39]
April Joy
No, you don't have to tithe.
- [02:43]
Tim Whitaker
There you go. So, yeah, we're gonna see if we're able to live stream. I'm not sure if we'll be able to, but either way, we'll be there on the 17th. It'll be a great time. It'll be good to see April in person again. I think it's been literally over a year now because I saw you. I saw you at the Summit for Religious freedom, which I'm going to next weekend in D.C. a year ago, I was going. This year, I'm a huge fan. Yeah, the work. Americans United, they're doing great work fighting for the separation of church and state. And so I'm on a panel with some people. I think Monty Mader will be on the panel and some other folks. Yeah, I'm excited for. It should be a good time. So. Okay, friends, if you were just joining. What. What's. What's funny? Nothing, I'm just laughing. Are you eating on the air?
- [03:26]
April Joy
I didn't really have time to eat lunch, so I am a little. I just need a little. Pick me up.
- [03:29]
Tim Whitaker
Yeah, I'm going to mute you while you.
- [03:33]
April Joy
I'll mute myself.
- [03:34]
Tim Whitaker
No, I got you. So, friends, if you're. This is one of our more unhinged lives. But, hey, whatever. Friends, if you are just joining the live stream, thank you so much. If you're watching on YouTube, please make sure to hit the like button. It helps get this stream out to more people. The way YouTube works is they go, oh, people like this video. We should recommend it to more people. So the like button is. Is not just for our own, you know, our own egos or something like that. It's for the YouTube algorithm. All right, so if you can smash that button, that'd be super helpful. If you're watching on substack, you can tap the heart button. It would be great. I can see comments on my phone from substack. So thank you for watching, everyone. And. Okay, let's just kind of get into this, April, because, I mean, look, I. Maybe I can set this one up while you're eating and getting nutrients into your body, but I have been thinking for a long time that it's only a matter of time before Trump believes the hype that white Christian nationalists have been giving him for a decade, that he is a messiah like figure. Okay. And just a few things I think are worth recapping. First, Donald Trump himself has said that he's the chosen one. During the January 6th insurrection, people brought a crime and flags, and they thanked Jesus for the opportunity. There's been so many talks about Trump being anointed or called by God for a very special purpose. There was also when the assassination attempt. I actually have a clip of this Ben Shapiro essentially calling what happened to Trump the hand of God, the literal hand of God on Trump's life to be president. Maybe I'll find that clip and play. Cause I think it is worth playing. There's been so much messiah like language attached to Trump. I have a couple more 10 years. Oh, go ahead. Yes, go ahead, please.
- [05:22]
April Joy
Marjorie Taylor Greene compared Donald Trump's arrest in the week of Easter in 2023 to the arrest of Jesus Christ. Paula White just a couple weeks ago also compared Trump to Jesus Christ. There was that chosen one worship song.
- [05:39]
Tim Whitaker
Yes.
- [05:40]
April Joy
That was literally. Yeah. Singing about Trump being the chosen one of God. And even though Trump shared the Jesus meme this week, which we're going to get into, but there's been Jesus Trump memes happening for the last decade and he shared a few prior too. I think there was one in court. Someone sketched like Jesus sitting beside him of like, Trump's never alone. Like, it's been. This is not a new thing.
- [06:09]
Tim Whitaker
No, it's not.
- [06:10]
April Joy
It's been in the works for a long time. A long time. And also. Yeah. And people also equated voting for Trump as a holy act because I was told I was thwarting the will of God if I didn't vote for Donald Trump. So they have already equated supporting him as this, like, Christian sacred task that all believers have to do.
- [06:32]
Tim Whitaker
If you have been around even the outskirts of Christian nationalist rhetoric, you have heard correlations to Donald Trump and God choosing him and being anointed, like in all kinds of either direct or indirect ways. Right. Like you said, Paula White literally compared the suffering and trial of Jesus to the sufferings and trials that Trump goes through. Like, it's, it's that direct. And we covered that last week on the Live. So, so that being said, when, when, when this happened, when Trump himself posted this AI generated photo of him obviously as Jesus Christ laying his hand on a man who looks eerily similar to Jeffrey Epstein. Right. I was kind of funny watching those people freak out, like, whoa, whoa, Trump, Trump. This is way too far, dude. Like, no, no, no, this is not okay.
- [07:28]
April Joy
Yeah, I mean, there were definitely some people calling this out. One thing I thought was interesting, I don't know if you noticed this, but. So apparently this image was posted by a different creator.
- [07:39]
Tim Whitaker
Yeah, I think is his name.
- [07:41]
April Joy
Yeah, yeah, that guy, I swear, is satire.
- [07:43]
Tim Whitaker
But somehow he's either a bot or he's a real npc. He's one of the two.
- [07:49]
April Joy
Yeah. Because he says the most asinine things. But anyway, in the original picture, that little demon guy at the top isn't in it.
- [07:58]
Tim Whitaker
Oh.
- [07:59]
April Joy
So I actually saw some people that, like, did this. Like, you know how people used to do the deep dive Antichrist, like, looking for symbolism everywhere?
- [08:10]
Tim Whitaker
Yes.
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April Joy
I actually saw some more conservative people doing that to this picture. And there actually are a few that are like, could. Could Trump be the Antichrist? But it's interesting because in the comments, it's, like, full of a bunch of MAGA people that are like, no, no, there's. There's no way. No, it couldn't be. Not Trump.
- [08:30]
Tim Whitaker
Not Trump. It's. Look, there's two sides to this. On one hand, like, yes, this is blasphemy in Christianity. This is. This is blatantly just like idolatry. And we'll cover that. And also, wait, guys. It wasn't the Epstein files. It wasn't the January 6th insurrection. It wasn't the past nine years of Trump that made you go, whoa, whoa, this is a problem. It is this. It's him posting a generated photo of. Of himself as Christ, which you essentially told him he was. This is what has made a lot of you be like, no, we're defecting. This is. We've reached the line. It's not child abuse. It's not that, April. It's. It's not genocide in Gaza. It is this photo.
- [09:14]
April Joy
Well, because they're. We've talked about this before, but their idea of faith and Christianity is so performative. It's about saying the right things, not doing the right things.
- [09:26]
Tim Whitaker
Yeah.
- [09:27]
April Joy
So up until. I mean, the, The. The crazy thing is, is Trump has said the wrong things plenty of times.
- [09:33]
Tim Whitaker
So many times.
- [09:34]
April Joy
So, like in 2015, in the. During the Republican primary, he said he's never asked God for forgiveness. Why would he need to?
- [09:42]
Tim Whitaker
It's like.
- [09:44]
April Joy
Right. And at that point, we already knew about his multiple affairs, and, like, he was already known as a billionaire playboy. I'm like, I mean, what could he
- [09:53]
Tim Whitaker
possibly have to repent for?
- [09:54]
April Joy
It's like, I think there's a couple things I mean, I could think of. But, you know, what do I know? I'm just a woman.
- [10:00]
Tim Whitaker
Exactly, exactly. You know how that goes.
- [10:02]
April Joy
Yeah. But I do think it is very telling that they care more about the performance, the image of what this looks like, because this looks like blasphemy. Where they can justify bombing children in elementary schools and trafficking because they can convince Themselves, like, oh, it's holy. Or, or, you know, I mean, it's a democratic hoax or whatever.
- [10:28]
Tim Whitaker
This man has, has an accusation by a credible witness, according to the FBI, that he assaulted her when she was a child. And I'm not saying the other part of that because of the YouTube censors, but you can fill in the blanks, you know, like, like that's the accusation. That's not what makes people online in maga spaces freak out. It is this picture. And I maybe, April, you know, it might be worth spending a minute and just kind of going through this picture and kind of how this is the epitome of white Christian nationalism. Because there are so many things in this photo that just reinforce this narrative that we are a Christian country. And that these things. The flag, I think that that that's either a border patrol or an ICE agent on the left. I think that it all reinforces. When we talk about white Christian nationalism. This is what we're talking about. If you had to wrap it up in one AI photo, this is literally it. Because they do see Trump as the person saving the country. They see him as a messiah like figure. They believe that America is a special chosen country with a special unique purpose. They think that border patrol agents are doing the work of God by keeping the evil criminals out. There's the military in the back, right?
- [11:37]
April Joy
There's also notice how everyone in the picture is white.
- [11:40]
Tim Whitaker
Exactly, exactly. This is. Everyone is white and they love militarism. I mean, Trump just asked for the biggest military budget increase since World War II. It's a 42% increase. It puts our military budget in like the top 10 or 15 of countries entire GDPs, right? And so, like, this is all part of just the white Christian nationalist ethos. This is what they value. And I think, and maybe, look, I admit I could be reading into this, but I don't think I am. I think it's interesting that Jesus Trump is performing a miracle on this dude while the nurse watches. Because there is such an anti, like, science attitude in these spaces. Right? You don't need vaccines, you don't need healthcare workers, you don't need the science. You just need the miracle. You just need to trust that God will heal you or that tribe knows better. Yes, exactly. And I think that's also a part of this as well. It literally is the whole white Christian nationalist ethos in the picture.
- [12:45]
April Joy
Yeah, it's a really wild image. But honestly, I was very curious how he was going to spin this because he was getting a Ton. I mean, I saw several people, including Riley Gaines and Meg Basham, people that are typically rah, rah Trump, no matter what, that did call this out in
- [13:08]
Tim Whitaker
the softest way possible, to be clear, like in the, in the most gentle way imaginable. But they did call it out, technically, you know.
- [13:15]
April Joy
Well, and because they do get. Anyone who criticizes Trump, if you come from that world gets pushed back, no matter what you're criticizing Trump for. And so they were, they walked it back real quick and were like, like Meg Basham was like, well, of course I would still vote for Trump. Can I just say. Go ahead, if you're going to know, like, blatantly, you understand that Donald Trump is blaspheming the gospel of Jesus Christ and you would still vote for him tomorrow because he's still the lesser of two evils. You are 100% still part of the problem. You are, you are absolutely okay with blasphemy and your little slap on the wrist means nothing.
- [13:59]
Tim Whitaker
Don't forget, these are the same people who said that Joe Biden was an evil, terrible man who hates Christianity. When he acknowledged trans day of visibility on March 31, which it's always on that date and it just happened to coincide with Easter, he acknowledged both and for, for Megan and for Ally and for everyone else. Right. That was, that was horrible. How could you? It's impossible to vote and as a Christian for Joe Biden, but this picture, oh, it's bad. But I'm not going to change my perspective. I'm not going to change my vote. Of course not.
- [14:32]
April Joy
I know. It's so baffling. Also, I, well, and also it's funny to me. I, I, I don't know the circles that you were in, but I was in like, very Antichrist happy circles. Like we were looking for the Antichrist.
- [14:47]
Tim Whitaker
You were, you were just searching everywhere.
- [14:49]
April Joy
Yeah, right. And let me tell you who I've heard conservative Christians accuse of being the Antichrist, like, legitimately thought they were the Antichrist. Okay.
- [14:58]
Tim Whitaker
Okay, I'm ready.
- [14:59]
April Joy
Barack Obama, obviously. Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, as you just mentioned, and Kamala Harris. I literally heard the threats of the Antichrist on all four of those Democratic presidential candidates, but Donald Trump comes out.
- [15:19]
Tim Whitaker
Why do you keep this in mind? Excuse me, I'm sorry. It's, it's, it's, it's. There's a demon in the computer. I don't know what to tell you.
- [15:25]
April Joy
Those listening. Tim took away my picture.
- [15:28]
Tim Whitaker
No, I didn't take it away. You just weren't in the shot I added you in. Okay.
- [15:34]
April Joy
But they will be like Antichrist, Antichrist, Antichrist for literally nothing.
- [15:39]
Tim Whitaker
Nothing.
- [15:39]
April Joy
Literally just being a Democrat. Right. Which they would say about abortion and murdering babies, which that's. Honestly. We should do a whole episode, just deep dive on abortion and why the way that. With how they view that is just stupid. But anyway. Antichrist, Antichrist, Antichrist, Antichrist. They accuse everyone of being the Antichrist except for the guy who's actually putting himself as Christ. What the actual. Like, how can you not. How can you not even question it? I mean, I guess some people are now, which is nice, but the vast majority still. Still are not. My God.
- [16:14]
Tim Whitaker
I did find the. Did you ever see the video of the woman who shows people how the monster can. Is evil and Antichrist and Satanic?
- [16:24]
April Joy
Yes. We showed this a few weeks.
- [16:26]
Tim Whitaker
Like we did.
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April Joy
Right.
- [16:28]
Tim Whitaker
It is worth people watching because it's a good example of just of how you really are looking for the satanic and the demonic everywhere. And except for where it maybe actually is like, like what is more demonic? A monster energy can or bombing schoolgirls in Iran? Like, which one of these is actually more evil? Right. It's like it's right in front of them. You. Every day we see demonic, so to speak, actions from this regime and it's baptized in Christian language. Pete Hegseth is reciting prayers, is reciting Bible verses or in some cases pulp fiction that he thinks is a Bible verse, you know, to, to baptize what they're doing in Iran and other places as like God ordained. That is what it means to take the Lord's name in vain, not a freaking energy drink.
- [17:17]
April Joy
Speaking of. Actually, I don't know if this is. Speaking of. I think this is just a bad segue, but I really want to watch. Like, can we see Trump's explanation of it? I'm sure everyone already knows.
- [17:29]
Tim Whitaker
We can. Let's just hear it again though. Yeah, it's worth it.
- [17:31]
April Joy
But it's worth. It's worth playing because I, I think my. I was actually shocked.
- [17:39]
Tim Whitaker
Oh, me too. Me too.
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April Joy
This was his explanation.
- [17:43]
Tim Whitaker
Here we go. Feast your eyes and ears, ladies and gentlemen.
- [17:47]
April Joy
Mr. President, did you post that picture of yourself depicted as Jesus Christ?
- [17:51]
Tim Whitaker
Well, it wasn't depiction. It was me. I, I did post it and I thought it was me as the doctor and had to do with Red Cross, as a Red Cross worker there, which we support. And only the fake news could come up with that one. So I, I just heard about it and I said, how did they come up with that. It's supposed to be me as a doctor making people better. And I do make people better. Make people a lot better. Well, there are so many lies in
- [18:22]
April Joy
that sense, I think that makes it better because Trump now is either lying and actually knows he posted a picture of himself as Jesus and is blatantly lying about it, which, that wouldn't surprise me because he lies all the time, or he's incredibly stupid. And I don't, I don't think we want someone who's that stupid to be president. Like, how do you look at this image and not even kind like, and think, doctor,
- [18:53]
Tim Whitaker
I. I don't know. In that whole sentence, he lied. He doesn't make people better. Number one, don't forget his team cut Affordable Care act subsidies earlier this year for millions of Americans. So let's start with that. They also have not given us any kind of health care replacement to Obamacare, even though they keep saying that one of their main goals is to get rid of it, but we have no alternative. So he, he lies about that. And yeah, I mean, guys, it doesn't take a rocket scientist. It doesn't take my 5 year old. If I showed my 5 year old a picture of this, said, who is that person in the middle? Even he would say Jesus. Like, it's not that hard to see what's going on. Like, I don't know if I saw
- [19:35]
April Joy
the theory going around online, but some people are speculating that his team briefed him to say that the image was doctored.
- [19:44]
Tim Whitaker
Yes.
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April Joy
And that he just misunderstood and then said, I thought it was me as a doctor. Now, I don't think there's any actual evidence that that's what happened, but that makes me laugh.
- [19:55]
Tim Whitaker
But it's totally plausible because, honestly, that makes sense because Caroline Levitt said it was a doctored photo. And that's, that's, that's when people were like, wait, did they tell Trump that to say it was doctored? And he interpreted as, I'm a doctor.
- [20:07]
April Joy
Did she actually say that?
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Tim Whitaker
Yeah, there was a quote. I got to find it. Hold on, I'll find it while we're on the air. But, but she used, like, she used, like a phrase like that, and, and people started thinking, well, is that where this whole thing went wrong?
- [20:23]
April Joy
Yeah, I tried to find her saying that, and I couldn't find it, but I. Oh, really?
- [20:27]
Tim Whitaker
I saw a quote online. Maybe, maybe I'm wrong.
- [20:30]
April Joy
So can't trust everything online, but it's very plausible. So do you want to show up? Let's show some reactions from the maga world about.
- [20:40]
Tim Whitaker
Yeah, this whole escalade. Geez. Wow. Where to even start here?
- [20:45]
April Joy
Ally Beth Stuckey.
- [20:46]
Tim Whitaker
Yeah. So, I mean, look, we do. I had the one main tweet from her. I think we could just summarize. Initially, Ally was like, the first thing she posted was a meme of Ben Affleck smoking a cigarette, being, like, you know, exhausted. That was her response to this. Okay. And then when Trump came out and said, hey, I thought I was a doctor. And this is a real tweet. This is not image. This is not AI or doctored. Ali Stuckey, though, the person who loves to claim biblical truth and objective truth and moral. The moral high ground and that she stands for true biblical values and that she's a truth teller. She tweets, I do believe. Oh, yeah, you do it. You do it in your voice.
- [21:32]
April Joy
I do believe. He didn't think of this as a depiction of Jesus when posting. Still, there has to be more care and discernment here.
- [21:42]
Tim Whitaker
You're so good at that.
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April Joy
I just have to, like, get nasally.
- [21:46]
Tim Whitaker
No, you really did it. Yeah. So Alvi's response to blatant blasphemy and idolatry. Literally breaking the first. And I know how much these people love the Ten Commandments because they want it in public schools. We need more care and discernment here.
- [22:02]
April Joy
Can you begin to, like, slap on the.
- [22:07]
Tim Whitaker
Excuse me, Mr. President Trump, if you could just do us all a favor. You're doing a great job. We love what you're doing. It's fantastic. But if you could just not post yourself as Jesus, it'd be a huge. It would be a big deal to us if you didn't do that again. That's how she's treating it now. I did pull it. That's a thought I did. I have a tweet of her talking about. Yeah. Her talking about Biden. When she talks about Biden, though, the language is slightly different. Biden is an evil, decrepit man. There you go. There you go.
- [22:41]
April Joy
I did see quite a few that were like, where was the outrage when Obama was in pictures with Jesus? Because there were memes back then of, like, I don't think of Obama as Jesus, but there were definitely some, like, problematic memes, for sure. Maybe Barack Obama never shared them. Like, you can't hold people. Like, we can't be outraged by everything some random person on the Internet posts.
- [23:08]
Tim Whitaker
Right. That's what people don't. I don't know how people can't see this Trump has reposted images of himself as the Pope. He's reposted images of himself being. Having his, like having Jesus lay hands on him. And then he reposted this image. I'm not aware of any president, Republican or Democrat, who has ever done such a thing. And somehow we're still talking about Obama from a decade ago. Like, dude, he's not even close to in power. This is the President comparing himself to Jesus. Oh, my God. And don't forget, guys, Biden is the evil, decrepit man. It's not this guy. It's Joe Biden. I didn't.
- [23:50]
April Joy
Because he wished he. He said happy trans day of visibility.
- [23:54]
Tim Whitaker
Yeah.
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April Joy
On Easter one year. Despite the fact that they were on the same day.
- [23:58]
Tim Whitaker
And he supports a pro choice policy which actually lowers abortion rates. I mean, Trump. Under the. Trump's first term abortion rates went up. There is data that shows states with high abortion, like bans or like extreme abortion bans. Rates of infant and maternal mortality rates go up, not down. Like it's completely counterintuitive. But guys, Biden is the evil, decrepit man and Trump is the one saving America. Oh my gosh.
- [24:32]
April Joy
So. It's so bonkers.
- [24:33]
Tim Whitaker
It's bonkers.
- [24:37]
Melinda Hale
Hey, everyone, Melinda Hale here, executive director of the New Evangelicals. Thanks for listening to our podcast. I just wanted to take a minute to personally invite you to be a part of our community. At tne, we're creating space for people of faith who care about justice, compassion, and living out the teachings of Jesus in real, tangible ways. As a nonprofit organization, not only do we offer thought provoking podcasts, but on our new app and online platform, TNE Connect, we offer free educational resources, additional content, and a space to connect with like minded people for meaningful conversations and encouragement. So if what we're doing has been helpful to you, if you've learned something, felt, seen, or been challenged to grow, head over to theneweevangelicals.com to join TNE Connect or make a donation. Your support means the world to us. Thanks for being a part of the movement.
- [25:29]
Tim Whitaker
Where do you want to go next?
- [25:30]
April Joy
I don't know. Do you want to show Ryan Miller's video?
- [25:34]
Tim Whitaker
Yeah, this is a good one.
- [25:36]
April Joy
Yeah. So there actually there have been quite a few that are very mad about this that have been previous pretty big Trump supporters. So this one I just found really interesting. And let's just watch it and then we can dissect it.
- [25:51]
Tim Whitaker
Watch the whole thing.
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April Joy
Very conservative.
- [25:53]
Tim Whitaker
Yeah. As you're going to find out, I
- [25:55]
Ryan Miller
don't care if you call me a lefty. I've been told I'm too far right. I've been told I'm too far left. I've had people call me and tell me, you need to chill with your views on this or that or the war in Israel, whatever it is, I don't care. Can I just speak for 95% of Christians out there and say, we are really tired of this. This is blasphemy. You've got angels that are soldiers or something. You've got Donald Trump clearly portraying himself as God. This is exactly what the Bible calls blasphemy. It's not even close. This is what the Ten Commandments is talking about when it says, do not take the Lord's name in vain. And if you are so blinded that you can't call your president out as a Christian because you're a Republican, that does not make you a Christian. You are blind. You are following the cult of conservatism. We've now seen this man and Bear. I'm not talking about policies. I'm not talking about policies and all. If you know me, you know I lean more conservative. But we've now seen a man who's created posts with transgender people dancing in his new Trump Gaza hotel during the same time when thousands of people are being killed in Gaza. Wherever you stand on that war, I don't care. That's not the time to make light of that. We've seen Trump portray the Obamas as monkeys. Well, it was an accident. It was his staffer. You're the commander in chief. Bear in mind, I have voted Republican and I will likely continue to vote Republican because the other side is so bananas. But this, as a Christian, grieves my heart. We need to pray for our president. We need to beg the Lord for mercy, that the Lord doesn't remove his hand of favor from our country when our leader is being openly blasphemous. Lord have mercy.
- [27:40]
Tim Whitaker
Do I have thoughts? I'm sure you do, too. Do you want to go first?
- [27:43]
April Joy
Yeah. Well, so his name's Ryan Miller. He has a pretty large following online.
- [27:47]
Tim Whitaker
Several million. Several million.
- [27:49]
April Joy
Yeah. And I would say he probably teeters more in, like, theological avenue, though. He's political as well. But this, I. I will get to your thoughts. I'll just say two things. One, I am frustrated by people that have takes like this, that are so close to understanding how terrible Donald Trump is for everybody, but would still say, I'll still vote Republican. Right? Like, so close to the point. And like, I said earlier, if you can see how terrible he is, but you would still vote for him. Everything like you are co signing his behavior. You already knew who he was before you voted for him. Again, he's not changed. But two, this is where I try to remember to have grace. In 2016, I was vehemently against voting for Donald Trump. So I did not vote for Donald Trump. I was a die hard Republican still. And as such I could not bring myself to vote for a Democrat because I was still, I still believed that both sides were equally bad at that point. And it took me completely losing faith in the Republican Party before I could even allow myself to. To question things that kept me from voting Democrat. And it took me a few years between being okay to vote for a Democrat from 2016. So I'm hoping this is like the first step to like continuing to pull on the string. But it is also really telling to me that he was harping on the transgender dancers in the Gaza video and not Donald Trump's golden statue, which to me was much more egregious because who cares if trans people are dancing other than the whole Gaza mar a Lago thing, which is just awful. All right, you take it.
- [29:38]
Tim Whitaker
No, I share your. I have like a split mind on this, right? Like on one hand I'm like, yes, you are on the right path. You're starting to see what has been there all along. And as a former conservative evangelical who also believe that can never vote Democrat, I'm happy that you're kind of walking up the stairs, so to speak. Right? And at the same time, how do you really think that the left is bananas? This is what I do. Whenever I have this conversation in person with folks like this. I do every now and then I just say, give me the examples. What are we actually talking about? Give me the policies that Joe Biden was championing that are quote, unquote bananas. Besides the ongoing genocide in Gaza, which all of us agree was absolutely bananas, but as far as, but they're talking about culture war stuff. He's gonna say abortion, he's gonna say, you know, trans ideology. He's still stuck in like the culture war mentality and can't even see that it's a, it's a, it's a manufactured outrage on the right that gets applied to the quote unquote left, which isn't even that left, politically speaking and isn't even true. Like Harris during her campaign, to my recollection, did not talk about trans rights one time on the campaign trail. Not one time, not One time, in fact, if memory serves me right, many activists were, like, really upset by that. They were like, why aren't you talking about this issue? So I don't know what he's talking about with the left's bananas. How? How? Because right now, dude, you guys have full control of the government, and it is chaos. It is freaking chaos domestically and abroad. Pete Hagseth is quoting Pulp Fiction, trying to pass it off as scripture, and you're calling whoever you think the left is bananas. That's what I don't get. At the same time, I want him to kind of keep going. So I don't want to be too hard and be like, oh, you don't get it yet. Because I was there, too. I was on that path and kind of in that messy middle. But, man, it's like, dude, you're so close. You're so close.
- [31:43]
April Joy
I know. Because we have to remember that they're indoctrinated, just like we weren't. And, like, we were heavily. I was heavily convinced that Democrats were satanic, that, like, a Christian could never vote for a Democrat. Like that. That gets ingrained so deeply, even if that's never overtly said from the pulpit, and many times it is, but you just. It's just in the water, you know, it's like learning that we breathe air. Christians can't vote Democrat. Like.
- [32:13]
Tim Whitaker
No, exactly. Exactly.
- [32:14]
April Joy
It's so second nature that I have to remember, you know, it can just be really hard to break out of indoctrination, but also just the apps, the cognitive dissonance you have to hold to be like, well, the world's on fire. We're in a war we shouldn't be in. Gas prices are high. I can't afford to live. The president is literally blaspheming my Lord and savior, Jesus Christ. But at least there's not trans people in sports.
- [32:40]
Tim Whitaker
That's. That's the thing. What I mean, look, I. I grew up listening to. Listening to talk radio. So for a lot of years, I believed that the left or Democrats were just evil people who hated America and whatever. So I. I understand how indoctrination can happen. I've experienced it. And also now that I'm kind of on the outside, I don't know why I found it so compelling. Like, I. I can't tell you what was going on in my brain that found it so logical and coherent, because on the outside, you're like, this makes no sense. You're mad about 10 trans athletes in college sports. Literally, there are 10 out of out of. Out of a quarter of a million. But you're, like, fine with our gas prices going through the roof or the fact that we're bombing children in Iran. Like, that's. Or. Or how about even a couple of months ago when our government was sniping boats in international waters with no due process, we were just killing people. We were just literally going, oh, that's a drug cartel with no evidence and killing everyone on board. Somehow like that. That's not my favorite, but that's tolerable. But, oh, a trans woman in sports. Oh, non negotiable. The math isn't math.
- [33:46]
April Joy
So, actually. So the day after this whole kerfuffle, so. And Donald Trump did end up deleting his doctor post. And let me just say, the Internet was on fire with the memes I was cracking up with.
- [33:56]
Tim Whitaker
All the ones about my favorite were the ones with, like, the pit, because I love the Pit and I was just dying. I was dying. So good.
- [34:05]
April Joy
Yeah, it was. It was really funny. But I don't know if you saw. But literally the next day, Donald Trump posted another Jesus meme.
- [34:12]
Tim Whitaker
Oh, I don't know. I'm not sure if I pulled that.
- [34:15]
April Joy
Oh, I can send it to you if you need it.
- [34:17]
Tim Whitaker
Yeah, why don't you send it? I'll grab it. Because I remember seeing it. I could just grab it off of my social media. But, yeah, send it over. Yeah, this is what is. What is so interesting is, like, Trump obviously hates his base. Like, he hates them. He has no respect for them. He's tried to grip them. He's done crypto scams. He's done all kinds of scams to his base, making money off of them. And they still think that he cares. They still think that he cares about them. Like, it is. It is unbelievable. Okay, I got it. Let me pull it in here. Hang on.
- [34:51]
April Joy
So where's my screen? This one is kind of more in line with the typical Jesus Trump memes that I've seen online. Oh, yeah, Infidel in the chat also brought up the Trump Bible. Like, the fact that he literally put his name on a Bible and has signed bibles is also blasphemous.
- [35:09]
Tim Whitaker
It's totally. Here you go.
- [35:11]
April Joy
So yesterday, he shares this on his Truth Social, and actually he wrote along with this meme, the radical left lunatics might not like this, but I think it is quite nice. President djt. Now, to be clear, it was not just radical left lunatics that had a problem with his blasphemy. It was a lot of his Base. So he shares this image. And for those listening, it's a picture of Jesus and embracing Trump. Yeah. Very white Jesus. Their heads are touching and their eyes are closed. And I. Trump's face.
- [35:45]
Tim Whitaker
Yeah.
- [35:45]
April Joy
Uncomfortable.
- [35:46]
Tim Whitaker
I was just going to say it
- [35:48]
April Joy
looks like he's enjoying it, maybe too much.
- [35:50]
Tim Whitaker
I'll give it PG because we're a family friendly show. But I'll just say he looks like he's really enjoying himself and he's a
- [36:01]
April Joy
bit on the intimate side.
- [36:02]
Tim Whitaker
There you go. That's a great way of putting it. Yeah, a bit on the intimate. You can't. Well, you can't see Jesus's hands. That's good. But you can't see Trump's, so who knows? It's.
- [36:11]
April Joy
Yeah, so Trump's are interesting. He's kind of leaning on Jesus. Jesus is holding him. They both have their eyes closed. And it's an account that tweeted, I was never a very religious man. But doesn't it seem, with all these satanic, demonic, child sacrificing monsters being exposed, that God might be playing his trump card? The narcissism, like, what's this person's name?
- [36:40]
Tim Whitaker
DK Kelly. Is this a bot? Is this, Is this a bot? I need to know. It doesn't look like.
- [36:45]
April Joy
I don't know, but.
- [36:46]
Tim Whitaker
Because bots are a problem. Like, no doubt. Oh, no, for sure, for sure. But, but like, what, What? And by the way, child sacrificing monsters being exposed. You mean the man who was BFF with Jeffrey Epstein? Like that one? The guy. Dude, the deal. Pam Bondi wouldn't even look the survivors in the eyes and you have the audacity to make it seem like Trump cares about children. Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me?
- [37:17]
April Joy
How?
- [37:18]
Tim Whitaker
My brain is just, it's broken. It is just. It is. It's oozing out of my ears. How?
- [37:26]
April Joy
How?
- [37:28]
Tim Whitaker
Oh my God.
- [37:29]
April Joy
So anyway, gosh, one thing, this literally just drops earlier this morning, but Franklin Graham finally made a response on both Jesus pictures. Franklin Graham, who is Billy Graham's son, who is a reverend, a preacher. I used to really respect Franklin Graham and I'm.
- [37:53]
Tim Whitaker
Wait, can I interrupt you really quick?
- [37:55]
April Joy
Yeah, yeah.
- [37:55]
Tim Whitaker
Before we read this, it's long. Why don't we do a few super chats and take just a minute because
- [38:01]
April Joy
this is worth it.
- [38:02]
Tim Whitaker
Also, friends, if you're just joining the stream, welcome in. We are the Tim and April Show. We go live every Thursday, 12:00 Eastern on Substack and on YouTube. If you're watching this stream on YouTube, please hit the like button. I'll tell you why. Because YouTube sees videos that get a lot of likes and goes, oh, we'll push this out to new people. So just tap the like button. If you could do it right now, don't wait. That'd be great. If you're watching on Substack, if you can share this stream, that'd be great. If you can hit the heart button, that'd be great as well. And we have a few super chats to read. We try and read every single super chat that comes in live on the air. And April holds me accountable. So does Cassidy if I forget one. So let's read a few of these,
- [38:39]
April Joy
remembering a lot better.
- [38:40]
Tim Whitaker
I'm trying to be more accountable in my life, and this is. This is part of it. So do you want to read these? Okay, cool. Here you go.
- [38:47]
April Joy
All right. From Joseph Compton. They gassed this man up, and now they're shocked that he thinks he's Jesus, yet they will continue to follow him. Blasphemy doesn't seem to be the line for them. Totally fair.
- [38:57]
Tim Whitaker
Another one from Joseph Compton.
- [38:59]
April Joy
Thank you. Joseph Compton. Compton. Trump's new title, the Blasphemer in Chief.
- [39:03]
Tim Whitaker
Love that.
- [39:05]
April Joy
From Tandyman. You guys got your act together after a rough start. There's hopefully a large protest at Dilly Detention on Saturday at noon that I will be attending. That's great.
- [39:13]
Tim Whitaker
I love that.
- [39:14]
April Joy
That place should be protested.
- [39:15]
Tim Whitaker
Is that in New Jersey, that one? Or is it the one? Is that the one in Texas? There's two. There's Delaney. Delaney's in New Jersey. Okay. Yeah, that was Dilly.
- [39:24]
April Joy
All right, next, from Melanie Lee, I imagine an SNL skit set to the song oh, Dr. Jesus from the opera Porgy and Bess. I've never seen that.
- [39:33]
Tim Whitaker
Me either.
- [39:35]
April Joy
From Shane Cheney Miller Ashton. He is the textual definition of the Antichrist. I mean, from infidel. Hey, friend, I'm an atheist, and so is Donald Trump. Trump is just the worst type of atheists. You know, the ones who pretend to be Christian.
- [39:51]
Tim Whitaker
That's good.
- [39:52]
April Joy
Honestly, I agree. I do think Trump is actually an atheist. At the end of the day, I don't think he believes in anything but himself and money.
- [39:58]
Tim Whitaker
And thank you so much for the. For the $50 super chat.
- [40:01]
April Joy
I know that's a big one.
- [40:02]
Tim Whitaker
Let's do. Let's do. We'll do one more, and then we'll come back to the rest later on, okay?
- [40:06]
April Joy
From Dolk Dogen. Got my tickets to see Dr. Christ Superstar.
- [40:10]
Tim Whitaker
Friends, just so, you know, full transparency. Super chats go to making this show possible. This show is produced by the New Evangelicals, a nonprofit organization that I founded in 2020, now run by Melinda Hale. You'll hear more about them in a minute here. But all super chats go to making this work possible. So thank you so much. It means the world. It lets us do this show. So thank you. Okay. Franklin Graham. This is Franklin Graham. For those who don't know. Franklin Graham after January 6th compared the Republicans who voted to impeach Trump to Judas who betrayed Christ. Like that. That was a real thing that he wrote about how they betrayed Trump for 30 pieces of silver. Like he alluded to that, that story. I was wondering what he would say
- [40:55]
April Joy
he would also do like Decision America rallies and he sends out his pamphlet every time there's an election that is very focused on like, who Christians should vote for.
- [41:06]
Tim Whitaker
Yes.
- [41:07]
April Joy
And like he would. I even wrote about this in my book, Star Spangled Jesus Shameless Plug, where he would ask people basically to make the decision to follow Christ and then also the decision to vote. Like almost like in the same speaking engagement. So it is very. He's very Christian nationalist.
- [41:26]
Tim Whitaker
I was wondering what Franklin Graham was going to say to the obvious blasphemy by Donald Trump.
- [41:31]
April Joy
But yeah, I will put and reminder, he was standing right beside Paula White when she compared Trump, Jesus, Easter, the week of Easter, and yes, nodded along with everybody else.
- [41:43]
Tim Whitaker
He was like this. So, okay, yeah, so he writes not a sentence. He writes a freaking book.
- [41:49]
April Joy
Let's write a novel. All right, here we go.
- [41:51]
Tim Whitaker
April's going to read it.
- [41:54]
April Joy
I had received some questions about President Donald J. Trump's recent post and here are my thoughts. I do not believe President Trump would knowingly depict himself as Jesus Christ. That would certainly be inappropriate. I'm thankful the President has made it very clear that this was not at all what he thought the AI generated image was representing. He thought it was a doctor helping someone. And when he learned of the concerns, he immediately removed the post. When I looked at the illustration, I didn't jump to the same conclusion as some. There were no spiritual references, no halo. There were no crosses, no angels. It was a flag, soldiers, a nurse, fighter planes, eagles, the Statue of Liberty. And I think this is a lot to do about nothing. There is so much ill intended speculation. I think his enemies are always foaming at the mouth at any possible opportunity to make him look bad. And the illustration from someone else he reposted on Truth Social yesterday. I must say that I like the Fact that this is a picture of Jesus whispering in his ear, or at least his hand on his shoulder, guiding him. We all need that. We all need to be listening to Jesus again. I think there is an attempt to spin this into something that it isn't. Remember, President Trump didn't draw this. He didn't create it. He reposted it on his social media because he thought it was nice. I would have to agree. I'm not a Catholic. I'm an evangelical. But I appreciate how President Trump has defended religious freedom for people of all faiths, including millions of evangelicals and Catholics in the US and around the world. He is the most pro Christian. He is the most pro Christian, pro life president in my lifetime. And he doesn't shy away from it. I would hope that the President and Pope Leo can meet at some point and that the Pope would have the opportunity to thank the President for his efforts to protect religious liberty for Catholics and people of all faiths.
- [43:51]
Tim Whitaker
I love how your accent got stronger and stronger as you started reading. Like, it started off kind of like a little twang. By the end, you're just full in Southern draw. Great job. Also, what the heck?
- [44:04]
April Joy
Like, you've got to be like, I hope. Like, I. I can imagine being like, I hope the Pope and Trump can get together and actually have a conversation. Great. But he said that. So the Pope has the opportunity to thank Trump. What the actual f. Can we also
- [44:25]
Tim Whitaker
highlight that he's not telling the truth about the actual picture? He says that. That there were no angels. Broski. There are. Aren't those. Oh, no, those are soldiers. Those aren't angels. I thought those are angels. My bad.
- [44:36]
April Joy
It does look like a demon, right? Okay. But he's okay. He has glowy hands.
- [44:42]
Tim Whitaker
Yeah, dude, look.
- [44:44]
April Joy
And he's wearing the Jesus sash.
- [44:46]
Tim Whitaker
I don't want to spend too much time trying to prove to Franklin Graham that he's wrong, because he just is. Like, I don't want to entertain his not. There was no halo, so he wasn't. He wasn't. He's wearing a white robe in a red sash. Like, this is how Christ in the American conscience is depicted. It just is. Like, whether you like it or not, that's just what it is. It's clear as day what he's doing here. And he's laying hands on someone. The sick. He's healing the sick. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. It's just. It is wild.
- [45:17]
April Joy
Yeah.
- [45:18]
Tim Whitaker
This is 1, 2, 3. This is a five paragraph Facebook post. Five paragraphs.
- [45:24]
April Joy
Him saying he thinks he like, he likes the one where Jesus is whispering in his ear.
- [45:31]
Tim Whitaker
I don't know, bro. It looks a little sus to me. I, I, I don't know.
- [45:37]
April Joy
Donald Trump.
- [45:39]
Tim Whitaker
Yeah, I don't know, Franklin, Truly.
- [45:42]
April Joy
What does Donald Trump have on Franklin Graham? How do you not it, at a minimum be like, yeah, that was, that was not great. Remember with the Epstein files, what he said? Yes, he was like, all this hoopla over the Epstein files. But you know what? God has a file on each one of us, and God's files are worse than Epstein files. Like, get off it, Franklin. I don't know what's in your file, but I know what's in my file, and it has not, it's not even close.
- [46:09]
Tim Whitaker
I can tell you right now, my file, my file is not even the same freaking, like, building on the same planet as Jeffrey Epstein's file. Like, guaranteed. Like, guaranteed. You know, I can guarantee to you we're not in the same universe, but hey, God has a file on all of us. Did you stub your toe and say that F word one time? That's the same thing as Jeffrey Epstein. Trafficking children around the world for the billionaire class. That's how stupid he sounds.
- [46:37]
April Joy
God, it's so exhausting. Okay, well, anyway, we could go on this for a long time, but we do want to get to the Pope. Speaking of the Pope, because there's a whole lot, whole war happening online between Trump and the Pope.
- [46:49]
Tim Whitaker
Yeah, we'll get to that in a second. Let's take a small break, hear more about tne, then we'll come back. So hang tight.
- [46:58]
Melinda Hale
Hi, my name is Mary and I'm from Nashville, Tennessee, and I'm a monthly donor to the new evangelicals. I'm really thankful for the work they're doing, and I think that there is a really important job to continue. That's why I offer my support. Between the pandemic, Donald Trump, the dehumanization of the LGBTQ community, I just think we really need to reevaluate what we're doing as a church, as evangelicals, as new evangelicals. So, yeah, glad to be a part of this community and love the work.
- [47:42]
Tim Whitaker
I love that. If I can just brag for a second, tne connect, I think, is like a hidden gem on the Internet. It's this private community space where people can meet like minded folks. There are all, there are regional chats, there are free classes, There are, there's a book club. Like, it's a great space. And it's, you know what it is? It's quiet in a good way. It's not that people aren't talking. They are, but it's not like bombastic people aren't getting into like, you know, keyboard warrior mode of trying to fight. It's just, it's a peaceful place away from all the hubbub, especially for folks who are trying to find a better path forward in their faith. You know, maybe someone's out there who is in like a very evangelical or conservative world and can't really express how they're feeling about what's going on. Tne Connect is a fantastic place to be. And like Stephen said, it's completely free. There's no cost to anything that the new evangelicals does because it's a nonprofit. So you can go to the newevangelicals.com to sign up or you can go to the app store on your phone, either Google or iOS. Type in TNT Connect, make an account and join. It's a great, great space to be.
- [48:48]
April Joy
Yeah, we all need safe spaces.
- [48:49]
Tim Whitaker
We do. And it's a really. And Steven's in such. Stephen, he, he kind of leads the space. He's done such a good job, like cultivating a really healthy culture. So I just, I highly recommend it. So.
- [49:01]
Melinda Hale
Yeah.
- [49:02]
Tim Whitaker
Okay.
- [49:02]
April Joy
Yeah.
- [49:02]
Tim Whitaker
The Pope I pulled up. Well, actually, I do have this one thing that I think is it to go somewhere. I don't have like a place for it, but I just think it's worth playing maybe once if I pulled it, I pull it up. Caroline. Love it.
- [49:16]
April Joy
I can give like kind of a rundown of what's been happening if you, if you're unaware.
- [49:20]
Tim Whitaker
This is separate, though. Just really quick, I play this one thing from Caroline. This is, this is just random, but I want you all to hear it. You understand why. In a second.
- [49:28]
April Joy
I thank goodness we have a president in an administration that believes in American energy dominance in bringing down prices at the pump. Look at how gas prices decreased over the past decade, year since this president was in office.
- [49:40]
Tim Whitaker
That's a real thing.
- [49:42]
April Joy
That's just that.
- [49:43]
Tim Whitaker
Yeah, this is not like a year ago. This is like a day old. Gas has risen by over a dollar a gallon on average. But guys, aren't you grateful for. For Donald Trump lowering your gas prices?
- [49:55]
April Joy
She's putting the gas in gaslighting, not April.
- [50:00]
Tim Whitaker
So good,
- [50:02]
April Joy
that one.
- [50:03]
Tim Whitaker
Love it. All right, anyway, go ahead, set us up.
- [50:06]
April Joy
Okay, so Pope Leo has called the Trump administration out for immigration policies in the last year, for demonizing, for, you know, just for the inhumane treatment that we are seeing of Immigrants that we've covered on the show. And then more recently, he's been making some pretty anti war comments because of this war that we're in with Iran for no reason. Like, I, we still. I don't really know why we're there. There's. His own. People have. Have. One guy resigned, said there was no imminent threat, which was the. What Trump claimed to do. Anyway, it doesn't matter. There's. We're bombing a lot of people for essentially no reason. We bombed elementary school.
- [50:54]
Tim Whitaker
Right.
- [50:55]
April Joy
A girls school. So the Pope, rightfully so, is. Is being very Christian in his anti war stance. And then Donald Trump in the last week has made multiple posts against the Pope, like directly calling the Pope out. And it's. It's been really interesting because suddenly you have. And there are some conservative Catholics that are maga. And they, I don't think they think that the current Pope is a valid Pope because they think he's liberal, which he's not liberal, to be clear. He's just not.
- [51:38]
Tim Whitaker
He's just not a fascist.
- [51:40]
April Joy
Right.
- [51:42]
Tim Whitaker
That doesn't make him automatically liberal. He's just not fascist.
- [51:45]
April Joy
Yeah, right. But he's been very, very bold in standing up for the marginalized and the people that our own country and commander in chief are hurting and killing in some instances.
- [51:58]
Tim Whitaker
I did find a short clip of him calling out, if you want to hear it for the audience. Yeah, yeah, like the anti war thing. I found it on YouTube. So here we go.
- [52:09]
April Joy
I can't hear it.
- [52:11]
Tim Whitaker
You can't hear that.
- [52:12]
April Joy
No.
- [52:13]
Tim Whitaker
But maybe I know why. I know why. It was muted. It was muted. That was my fault. Jesus told us, blessed are the peacemakers, but woe to those who manipulate religion in the very name of God for their own military, economic or political gain, dragging that which is sacred into darkness and filth. Yeah, nice one. Like, yes, yes, and amen. Fact check. True.
- [52:42]
April Joy
Yeah. Did you see Trump tweeted out. Oh, I thought I shared it. I shared it somewhere. Oh, yeah. Pope Leo is weak on crime. He starts off a post. Pope Leo is weak on crime and terrible for foreign policy. He talks about fear of the Trump administration, but doesn't mention the fear that the Catholic Church and all other Christian organizations had during COVID when they were arresting priests, ministers, and everybody else for
- [53:10]
Tim Whitaker
holding church services where that literally didn't happen. There was a pastor in Canada named Tim Alberta who purposely defied Covid orders, got fined, didn't pay the fines, and then got finally arrested for not paying the fines. That then turned into a Story that this pastor is being persecuted for his faith because he refused to shut down during COVID There was that one example. Are you fact checking me?
- [53:41]
April Joy
No, I think you just said the wrong name. Because I think Tim Alberta is the guy who wrote the Kingdom, the Power and the Glory.
- [53:47]
Tim Whitaker
Yeah, but I think, I think that's his name also. Yes, I think. Hold on, I could be wrong.
- [53:54]
April Joy
Yeah, that was the only thing.
- [53:55]
Tim Whitaker
Oh, no, wait, hold on. Covid, Canada. I'm backtracking myself. No. Oh, I gotta find it.
- [54:08]
April Joy
James Coates. James Coates pleaded guilty to breaching bail and was issued a fine. It says he was jailed over COVID 19 violations.
- [54:18]
Tim Whitaker
It happened in Alberta, Canada. Ah, my brain. Yes, thank you. That's that. Sorry, Tim, if you're watching. No, Tim Alberta is a great author. Go read his books. No, in Alberta, Canada, I believe this pastor named James Coates did this. And that became this huge scandal by right wing conservatives that, look, the government's coming for the church. Yeah, right.
- [54:41]
April Joy
But they acted like that same persecution was happening here. And it just wasn't like there were some places that were told to stream online and they did. But like in my state when I was in Tennessee at the time, literally no one stopped ever having church services. They acted like they were rebelling. I'm like, you're fine, you know.
- [55:01]
Tim Whitaker
Okay, so really quick, just to prove the point, John MacArthur's church, grace to you, sued California during COVID because of the restrictions. And they won. They won. So, like, I don't know what they're talking about. Like, you know, this persecution. Like, James, John MacArthur sued the government and won. So anyway, yeah, so.
- [55:24]
April Joy
So anyway, there's this war going on and I found it interesting. Do you have the video of the Republican being asked about the Pope? And obviously JD Vance is Catholic now, so it's been. He's. I feel like he's been struggling a little bit in his Catholicism and Trumpism.
- [55:40]
Tim Whitaker
I have Mike Johnson as well. Which one should I play?
- [55:43]
April Joy
Yeah, either one.
- [55:45]
Tim Whitaker
Let's play Mike Johnson first. This is really important. Okay, so Mike Johnson gets asked about the Pope and here's his response.
- [55:51]
Mike Johnson
I'm not one to criticize clerics and religious leaders. We defend free speech and we certainly defend the right, the free access of religion. And you know, a pontiff or any religious leader can say anything they want. But obviously if you wade into political waters, I think you should expect some political response. And I think the Pope's received some of that. You know, I was taken a little bit aback. Just honestly, frankly, but something that was said, I think he said several days back that something about those who engage in war, you know, that Jesus doesn't hear their prayers or something, you know, it is a very well settled matter of fact of Christian theology. There's something called the just war doctrine. There's a time to every purpose under heaven. I think what the President's comments, what the Vice President's comments reflect is their understanding deep in the, you know, the skiff and the classified briefings of the stakes that are so high and the situation that we're facing and the fact that you had the nation that was the largest sponsor of terrorism now has, having had that ability taken away from them, that means potentially millions of innocent people will be able to keep their lives and not be killed by terrorists. That's a good thing. That's what's come out of this.
- [57:03]
Tim Whitaker
Okay, I don't, I don't, I gotta say, I mean, this is the end. He stops there pretty much really quick. Just for the nerds out there who know this just war theory would never apply to this because typically it's limited to either self defense or defending others against the wrongful attack. Bombing children in schools is not a just war theory. I also want to highlight that in early Christianity, one of the most widely agreed upon things was a radical commitment to non violence, including being judged for even serving in the military of the empire. Like that's how nonviolent they were. That's the level, that's the level of nonviolent, you know, of the attitude of. The attitude that they had of nonviolence was even if you serve in the military, you are sitting against God. So just to point this out, like Mike Johnson does not know what he's talking about. And it's also not, not settled by any stretch of the imagination. Wow.
- [58:01]
April Joy
Also.
- [58:03]
Tim Whitaker
Wow.
- [58:03]
April Joy
J.D. vance was asked about it too and he said something like, I think it's very, very. This is it. This is a quote. I think it's very, very important for the Pope to be careful when he talks about matters of theology.
- [58:17]
Tim Whitaker
Really? Really?
- [58:18]
April Joy
Yeah.
- [58:19]
Tim Whitaker
J.D. vance, really?
- [58:21]
April Joy
I do have, imagine saying that. Imagine J.D. vance has been a Catholic for two seconds. He's got a book coming out about his conversion to Catholicism and he dares question the, the Pope. Like it just shows the level Pope on his theology.
- [58:39]
Tim Whitaker
It demonstrates the level of arrogance and you know, just pridefulness that these men have. They think that because they're in this position to power, they can critique whoever they want. And you're right, the Pope, like is the dude in Catholicism to argue that, that the Pope should, should watch his theology is so wild. So wild.
- [59:04]
April Joy
What are you doing from a new Catholic? Like,
- [59:09]
Tim Whitaker
okay, okay. By the way, that's very much a classical evangelical attitude. Because I had this view and I've been a pastor. I can therefore speak to authoritatively. Like, they do this all the time. All the freaking time. And so it sounds like J.D. vance has brought some of his evangelical tradition into Catholicism.
- [59:28]
April Joy
Right, well, that phrase, God doesn't call the qualified, he qualifies the called. So you have all these narcissistic men out there that have never been to seminary that think they're smarter than people that have spent their entire lives studying the scripture.
- [59:41]
Tim Whitaker
Yeah.
- [59:42]
April Joy
And in, like, original languages, too.
- [59:44]
Tim Whitaker
Like, yeah, insert Ali Stuckey here. Like, seriously hasn't done one day of Bible school in her life. And it's like these progressive theologians who don't know what they're talking about. It's like, ali, do you hear yourself? So one more clip that I think is worth playing on this topic is. And this, this is just so telling. This is Representative Troy Neils talking about the Republican. Thank you, Republican. Talking about the Pope and what he should do going forward. When it comes to politics, Donald Trump's comments on the Pope over the weekend. I probably say the Pope needs to keep his business into leading his flock, so to speak, leading the church, and probably stay out of the political arena. He doesn't need to be getting involved in the political arena. Go lead your church. Church, but stay out of the politics. We didn't elect. We didn't elect the Pope to be the president or be the anything else. So just keep his nose in the Church's business and stay out of the political arena. What if he sees his role as sort of leading his flock away? Lead his flock. Well, let's focus on just behavior, doing everything else. Just, just focus on your flock. And Donald Trump is our president. It's not the Pope. I didn't elect the Pope to be president.
- [60:55]
April Joy
And all of a sudden, conservatives, bro, the way that they spend years saying, like, this is a Christian nation. We need a governed by Christian morality and Christian rules. And we need Christians to rule the
- [61:08]
Tim Whitaker
government like they're 10 Commandments in public schools today.
- [61:12]
April Joy
They are begging the church to be a part of politics until it's the Catholic Pope saying, hey, we shouldn't bomb innocent people. And suddenly they're like, separation of church and state.
- [61:26]
Tim Whitaker
Stay away, stay away. You know? Yes, exactly. I mean, I think it was Sean Foight who Said that, that the church has to invade the government because of his spiritual, you know, nar nonsense. But the Pope saying, hey, woe to people who use theology as a justification for war. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Separation of church and state, like stay in your lane, Pope you are. Politics is not your thing. Just go back to shepherding your flock. Oh my God. And look, not to say that, April, not to say that you and I are always right because we, we certainly make our mistakes. But have we not been saying this for years? Have we not been saying that everything about Christian nationalism is a one way street. It's not about religious freedom, it's about their Christian privilege. It's not about, you know, separation of church and state. Unless a different religion or theological tradition wants to have a say in the government. Then all of a sudden, keep your stuff out of our government. It is a non stop hypocrisy fest. It's always applied to them in a way that benefits them and disparages their opposition. That's how it operates.
- [62:34]
April Joy
Not for me. Yes.
- [62:36]
Tim Whitaker
Every single freaking time this is. Guys, we can't show you a clearer example of the blatant hypocrisy when it comes to religious freedom in this country and separation of church and state. Right? All of a sudden a phrase that we've used so many times that is accurate. It comes into play because they don't like the Pope critiquing a megalomaniac madman who's bombing kids in Iran and feeding the military industrial complex which is responsible get ready for 42% of all arms sales in the world. The US government is the largest exporter of weapons around the world. They are responsible for 42% of all weapons sold. Do you know how rich these contractors get off of this? Do you know how rich Lockheed Martin and these other contractors get off of these unlimited billion plus dollar contracts to make lethal weapons of war than to ship them around the world and watch people kill each other with them. Like the Pope is so on the money here, especially as a Christian. I mean he's, he's pulling from legitimate Catholic theology. And this, this dude, this dude with this cigar, this wannabe like Chuck Norris guy, I don't know is like, tell the Pope to stay the heck out of politics. Like, no, he doesn't know he's talking about. This is what he's talking about.
- [63:59]
April Joy
Like also like he's what? It's just a lack of understanding of what embodied. Like living out the gospel is too, which is standing up for the marginalized, for the people that are cast out for the people that are being harmed and persecuted. Like, that is the gospel. That is what Christians are supposed to be doing. And they. They suddenly are like, oh, that. Well, no, that's. Just. Stay out of politics. It's not a moral issue. Like, what do you mean? You're dropping bombs on children. That is absolutely a moral issue.
- [64:31]
Tim Whitaker
I don't. Yeah, I mean, it's. It's infuriating. I mean, look, midterms are coming up, friends. This is why you got to vote. It's all I can say. This is why you vote.
- [64:40]
April Joy
Yeah.
- [64:41]
Tim Whitaker
These people have got to get the heck out of the House, out of the Senate. Like, we have to get them out. I do hope. You know, we played that video earlier of what's that kid's name? The Miller dude who's like, Ryan Miller. Yeah. I do hope that deep down, off the Internet, off of their content. Right. I hope that when they're alone and they're thinking that they really are reconsidering how they're going to start voting in the future, given the absolute state of chaos this country is in, in only a year and three or four months of this regime. Think about that. Think about how much we've had to cover in the past, like, 16 months. Ice Doge. I mean, there's just. There's the Gaza video. There's so many things. So I hope that people like that are really reconsidering their positions because it's untenable long term.
- [65:31]
April Joy
Yeah, no, I completely agree. We want to read some more super chats and then get to our weird Christian bleep. Oh, oh, do you want to play Hegseth's Prayer?
- [65:42]
Tim Whitaker
Oh, the Pulp Fiction one?
- [65:44]
April Joy
We can skip it. You mentioned it, so I don't think I have it.
- [65:47]
Tim Whitaker
I don't think I pulled it.
- [65:47]
April Joy
Fine. Let's read some more super chats and then we'll get to weird Christian shit. Also. Oh, I didn't mean to actually say it. We're supposed to bleep it. Sorry. I saw Melinda in the chat. I was going to shout her out. Hey, Melinda.
- [66:00]
Tim Whitaker
That's all good friends. If you're watching this video on live stream via YouTube, please hit the like button. It really helps get this video out to more people. If you're watching on substack, thank you for all the hearts. It means so much. Please feel free to reshare this video. And again, the New Evangelicals, a nonprofit organization founded in 2020, now led by Melinda Hale, the ED is doing some amazing work helping folks Find a better path forward in faith. Please make sure to check out TNE Connect. It is such a beautiful space that will help you in your spiritual walk. I promise you. It is so Good. Totally free. TheNewEvangelicals.com or at the New Evangelicals on Instagram or TNE Connect on the App Store. So either way. All right, let's read some super chats here. Let's see. Okay, this one is from Jared the Weird Worker Obama Derangement Syndrome. Yeah. For real? For real. Absolutely. Let's see. Can you read this?
- [66:52]
April Joy
Colin Dunham Tim with the fresh cut. Looking good, brother.
- [66:56]
Tim Whitaker
Thank you. Thank you very much. I appreciate that. Means a lot.
- [67:00]
April Joy
And then from Dolkdogan. Wouldn't be shocked if Pete quotes Austin316. Honestly, I kind of want to make a sketch where I pretend to be Pete. Hegseth is quoting a bunch of movie quotes as scripture.
- [67:13]
Tim Whitaker
Just being like, April, I feel like that is made for you. That is so like, you're getting it
- [67:18]
April Joy
in my brain as we speak.
- [67:19]
Tim Whitaker
Oh, my gosh. Good, good.
- [67:20]
April Joy
All right, from. From Colin Dunham. Again. If Biden had posted the same thing, he would have been impeached immediately. The double standard is effing crazy. Agreed. Agreed. Okay. From Joseph Compton. Billy Graham must be rolling over in his grave. Franklin Graham's an embarrassment to his father's legacy. I do concurrent.
- [67:38]
Tim Whitaker
I concur.
- [67:40]
April Joy
And then from Solly. Rhymes with Julie. Suli. Rhymes with Julie. Anyway, tagged you both in a video on insta from a yell conference on faith and politics in this election year. Appreciate your work. Thank you.
- [67:52]
Tim Whitaker
Thank you. Thank you, friends. All right, let's get to our final segment. This is a blind react, so we'll see. Here we go.
- [67:58]
April Joy
I haven't seen this. Christian.
- [68:05]
Tim Whitaker
Yep, yep, yep. Okay, where's my button for this one? Here it is. All right, friends, no context. Here you go. It's a pastor. That's all you need to know. Speaking to his congregation. A worship night, it looks like.
- [68:19]
April Joy
Okay.
- [68:20]
Tim Whitaker
Our lead pastor, he's a grinder. He grinds, and I love grinding next
- [68:28]
April Joy
to him day in and day out. And here's one.
- [68:31]
Tim Whitaker
I'll let you guys in on a little secret. One thing John and I say together. That's it. That's the clip. One more time.
- [68:39]
April Joy
Hold on.
- [68:40]
Tim Whitaker
Our lead pastor, he's a grinder. He grinds, and I love grinding next to him day in and day out.
- [68:50]
April Joy
And here's one. What does he mean? What does he mean by grind? Grinder?
- [68:58]
Tim Whitaker
There are many. Just like how in Christianity The Bible can be interpreted in many different ways. There are several interpretations here. Some might say, is he on the app Grinder? Is he on the app Grinder? That's one interpretation. There's also. Is he like a skater? Is he a skateboarder? Does he grind down rails? A second interpretation. Then there's also the interpretation of he works really hard. But then this guy's like, I like grinding next to him. Which would insinuate. Are they, like, dancing on each other?
- [69:30]
April Joy
Like grinding?
- [69:30]
Tim Whitaker
Yeah, Grinding, like. Yeah, yeah. Several. Several ways to interpret that.
- [69:38]
April Joy
Oh, there's a grinder that I feel kind of. He can't. He couldn't have known.
- [69:45]
Tim Whitaker
Oh, no, I don't.
- [69:47]
April Joy
Someone's gotta.
- [69:47]
Tim Whitaker
Obviously. No.
- [69:49]
April Joy
So he doesn't know.
- [69:50]
Tim Whitaker
Obviously he didn't know. That's why it's a fail. That's why it's mere Christian belief. It's like, wait, what did you say for.
- [69:56]
April Joy
From. Oh, dear.
- [70:00]
Tim Whitaker
Short and sweet. For this one, I just thought. It just tickled me when I first heard it. I'm like, okay, one more time. One more time. It's super short.
- [70:08]
April Joy
Oh, man. Our lead pastor, he's a grinder.
- [70:13]
Tim Whitaker
He grinds and I love grinding next to him. The way he says it, I love grinding next to him.
- [70:22]
April Joy
His whisper voice makes you so much worse.
- [70:25]
Tim Whitaker
I think what he's saying is like, our pastor works so hard, and I love working just as hard next to him. But instead he used the word grind. And here we are. Here we are.
- [70:38]
April Joy
The way sometimes we just don't think things through. It reminds me of that there's a church. There was a church billboard that gets passed around every year where it's like, Easter comes once a year. How often do you.
- [70:53]
Tim Whitaker
Yes, yes. I love the Internet. Undefeated.
- [70:59]
April Joy
So, yeah.
- [70:59]
Tim Whitaker
Well, there you go, friends. A little bit of grinding action for the end of our set of our show.
- [71:05]
April Joy
Yeah.
- [71:06]
Tim Whitaker
Oh, my goodness. Yeah. That was a good one. Friends, thank you so much for being here. It truly means the world. We go live every Thursday, 12 o' clock Eastern. Although next week I will not be here. April will be hosting the show. I will be.
- [71:19]
April Joy
We're doing two pre records, remember, we're doing a part one and part two. Oh, we're not going live next week unless we completely. Oh, communicated. So we were doing part two of the part one we already recorded.
- [71:34]
Tim Whitaker
Yes, but. Okay, we'll talk about this offline. But the point is that there might not be a live next week. Or there might be. We'll find out. So, anyway, thanks so much for being here. We usually go live on Thursdays at 12:00 clock Eastern on YouTube and on Substack. And we also release a pre record every Tuesday, so make sure to tune in on podcast and on YouTube. Anything else, April?
- [71:58]
April Joy
Not for me.
- [72:00]
Tim Whitaker
Sounds good.
- [72:00]
April Joy
It's gonna be grinding away.
- [72:03]
Tim Whitaker
I'll be grinding right next to you. Nope, nope, nope. No.
- [72:10]
April Joy
Roll back. Roll back.
- [72:12]
Tim Whitaker
Well, I'm Tim Whitaker.
- [72:14]
April Joy
I'm April. A joy.
- [72:15]
Tim Whitaker
Goodbye. Well,