110. The Mega Church to MAGA Pipeline

Summary

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The Tim & April Show – Episode 110: "The Mega Church to MAGA Pipeline"

Hosted by Tim Whitaker and April A Joy Podcast Network: The New Evangelicals Date: May 8, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Tim & April Show takes a deeper dive into the cultural and ideological overlap between Evangelical megachurch culture and the MAGA (Make America Great Again) political movement. Tim and April dissect the ways in which the structures, values, and messaging of large Evangelical churches create a fertile environment for Christian nationalism and alignment with MAGA talking points, particularly around issues like authority, misinformation, and scapegoating marginalized communities. Rather than focusing on breaking news, the hosts provide a guide for listeners—especially those unfamiliar with these subcultures—to understand why so many Evangelicals gravitate toward MAGA politics and how this pipeline is cultivated by influential pastors.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining the Mega Church to MAGA Pipeline

• Evangelical megachurches are identified as communities built around charismatic leaders whose authority is rarely challenged and whose narratives shape the beliefs of large congregations (06:23).
• The leap from megachurch culture to MAGA allegiance is explained by:
  • Personality-driven leadership: Similarities between megachurch pastors and figures like Donald Trump—narrative inflation, focus on numbers, and competition for attention (04:53).
  • Protecting "God's Anointed": Both worlds discourage dissent against leaders, branding such criticism as divisive or sinful (05:16, 06:02).
  • Dogma over data: Preference for emotional or anecdotal persuasion over facts or statistics—mirroring both church reporting (exaggerated salvation figures) and political slogans (MAGA-style claims of greatness) (04:53–06:23).
• Memorable quote – April:
  “Trump has mannerisms…he inflates numbers, makes up facts…Megachurch pastors do that all the time.” (04:02)
• Memorable quote – Tim:
  “These systems usually are going to prioritize the leaders and the charisma that keeps the people and the money flowing, usually at the expense of people who get really hurt by these churches.” (07:47)

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2. Shared Tactics: Echo Chambers, Conformity, and Suppression of Questions

• Both megachurch and MAGA cultures feature:
  • Echo chambers and enforced conformity: Claiming community but only if everyone holds exact beliefs (08:37).
  • Discouragement of doubt, curiosity, or dissent: Labeling any critical questioning as “Satanic attack” or “fake news” (09:01–09:23).
  • Conspiracy thinking: Evangelical teaching often primes followers for conspiratorial logic, transferring easily into QAnon or MAGA conspiracy spheres (09:24–09:57).
  • Notable book reference: Reality in Ruins by Jared Stacy, on conspiracy thinking in evangelicalism (09:57).

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3. Theological Foundations for Misinformation

• Literalist and anti-scientific teachings (young earth, talking animals, exclusive salvation) make followers susceptible to outlandish claims (10:00–12:34).
  • Tim recalls: “I was taught not to believe the scientists…when you’re a child…giving you a foundation…it obviously primes people to believe in conspiratorial thinking.” (09:57–11:50)
  • April highlights: “You’re told not to question…don’t listen to secular music…don’t go to college…It becomes very cultlike and an incredibly isolating space.” (51:49–52:17)

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4. Religious Reframing of Culture War Issues

Case Study: Pastor Josh Howerton

• Misogyny and consent: April critiques viral Howerton wedding advice prescribing total submission for wedding nights:
  “There are people in this world that believe that once you say ‘I do,’ that equals consent for everything.” (17:05)
• Weaponization of dogma: Claiming that "wokeness" in Christianity is heretical, while progressive Christians following Jesus' compassion are “truly evil” (17:26–17:58).
  • Howerton claims: “The people who are truly following Jesus are trying to trans the kids and voting for policies that have killed 40 million babies.” (17:58)
• Misinformation on trans and abortion issues:
  • Tim and April refute scare tactics on “transing kids,” citing Harvard research on exceedingly rare surgeries for minors and contrasting it with rhetorical exaggeration in MAGA churches (19:53–24:44).
  • April: “There were zero surgeries performed on trans youth 12 and under…even among teens, the rate is 2.1 per 100,000. That’s hardly anything.” (21:09–22:03)
  • Tim: “They build political foundations on myths that aren't actually happening.” (20:25)

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5. Rationalizing Trump Through Evangelical Lenses

• Selective “fruit-inspection”: Pastors justify Trump as “possibly saved” despite lacking Biblical traits, shifting standards when convenient (28:03–31:08).
  • Tim: “Donald Trump wouldn’t be qualified to be a parking lot greeter in most churches and yet…is making a case that Trump might be saved.” (29:24)
  • April: “How do you compare a billionaire like Donald Trump to a blue collar worker?” (31:01)
• Emotional manipulation: Use of music and production to sway emotions toward empathy for Trump (31:22–32:06).

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6. Covert Christian Nationalism and Refusing the Label

• Josh Howerton’s “gaslighting” of Christian nationalism: Reframes attempts to address Christian nationalism as persecution of “good Christians,” encourages accepting the label while denying extremist motives (34:58–36:19).
  • “Christian nationalism is a scare label whose subtext is, ‘We progressives can advocate for our values…but you Christians can’t advocate for yours.’” (36:05)
• Tim’s rebuttal:
  “They do not believe these statements apply to everyone. They believe it applies to them, their tribe, and people who think like them or will give them the power that they want. It’s just that simple.” (39:23–39:40)

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7. Greg Laurie and the Sacredness of Power

• Laurie, another high-profile pastor, delivers post-election sermons blending Christian doctrine with explicit MAGA rhetoric (46:18+).
  • “I believe that God has placed President Trump in office for such a time as this.” (46:18)
  • Focus on culture-war issues: “Americans are tired of this woke agenda…late term abortions, mutilating our children, men in women’s sports…God has placed President Trump in office for such a time as this.” ([46:18]–[47:05])
• Disconnection from lived realities: Laurie, living in luxury, frames himself and the church as persecuted, despite immense privilege and power (54:40).
• Systemic coverup discussion: April and Tim detail allegations against Laurie’s Harvest Church, exemplifying the “protect the ministry at all costs” culture (43:27–45:19).

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8. The Cultish Social Structure of Evangelical Megachurches

• High demands on time, resources, and loyalty; shunning of dissent; strict boundaries on information and influences (50:55–52:17).
  • April: "You end up...convinced that your old life, your old friends...are a hindrance to your relationship to God...You are taught to question, to not question what you’re told…" (49:31–52:17)
• Replacement of secular with Christian-approved alternatives, reinforcing dependency and isolation (52:17).

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9. Gender and Authority: Voting and "Covering"

• Segmented voting maps:
  • Men overwhelmingly vote for MAGA; women less so.
  • Sean Foyt and Josh Howerton claim that women “married to the state” are responsible for liberal victories, and that men are “marginalized” ([60:27–61:57]).
  • April: “I hate when men refer, when they talk about women, they say females. To me, that’s an immediate red flag.” (61:57)
  • Tim: “How stupid do you have to be to really believe this BS?…How do you really think that white men in this country are marginalized?” (62:28–63:26)
  • April’s satire: “I just wanted to vote blue because I think the government makes a great husband.” (63:49)

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10. Mark Driscoll and Sean Foyt—No Nuance Needed

• Driscoll’s new book “Vote Like Jesus” and rhetoric: No complexity allowed; to vote for Democrats is “to kill babies and mutilate children” (66:25–67:30).
  • “There’s no nuance here. One side wants to cut off body parts of children…kill babies up until the ninth month...This is not difficult.” (66:25)
  • April’s summary: “There are people that have a very black and white ideology. You are either on their side, which is the side of God, or you’re on the side of the devil.” (68:28)
• Tim: “For people like me and April, this is what it was like growing up in church. Whatever the talking point was…it’s reinforced in every corner of the world of that cult you occupy.” (67:35)

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “[Trump] has people around him who have for years been clearly sharing the gospel…he talks about Christianity like a normal blue-collar dude…”
  — Josh Howerton (28:03)

• “Notice how [John Fugelsang] actually cites what Jesus teaches…Jesus says nothing about transgender people. He says nothing about abortion. And then Josh has the audacity to claim John is the one selectively editing Jesus…”
  — Tim (18:34)

• “[MAGA churches are] built on dogma and propaganda, which is why it syncs so well with Trump. They are a match made in heaven.”
  — Tim (24:44)

• “This is absolutely covert Christian nationalism. …The way that he said ‘God’s values’ and equated…his conservative ideology as God’s values. They’re equating the two, which is very sneaky.”
  — April (36:19)

• “You cannot reason with Christian nationalists. … They believe that people not like them are controlled by demons or are themselves demonic. And you can’t negotiate with demons. You can’t redeem demons.”
  — Tim (69:05–71:17)

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Key Segments & Timestamps

• [00:00–01:54] – Light intro & show setup; episode purpose outlined.
• [03:52–13:26] – Opening analysis on similarities between megachurch culture & MAGA movement.
• [14:37–17:12] – April & Tim analyze clips from Pastor Josh Howerton, highlight misogyny, and discuss cultural implications.
• [17:26–24:44] – How misinformation/talking points on trans issues and abortion are weaponized.
• [28:03–34:06] – Howerton rationalizes Trump’s “faith,” and Tim/April dissect the theological inconsistency.
• [34:58–40:14] – Gaslighting around Christian nationalism, redefining it as “good Christianity.”
• [46:18–49:17] – Greg Laurie melds theology & MAGA politics; lawsuits and coverups at his church.
• [50:55–53:06] – Evangelical social control & community structure explained.
• [60:27–63:49] – Gender, authority, and voting; “married to the state” rhetoric.
• [66:25–68:28] – Driscoll and Foyt’s absolutism; false binary and refusal of nuance.
• [75:18–77:55] – “Weird Christian Belief” segment on Fortnite skins—lampooning misplaced priorities.

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Tone & Conclusion

Tim and April balance light sarcasm and poignant critique with personal insider knowledge, exposing how megachurch and MAGA logics are symbiotic. They emphasize that the pipeline is maintained by a mix of theological dogmatism, misinformation, charismatic authority, and social pressure to conform. The show closes by underscoring the moral and political consequences of this culture—not just for the church, but for American democracy—and the need to challenge this “pipeline” with reason, compassion, and factual engagement.

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For listeners unfamiliar with the subculture, this episode is an eye-opening guide to understanding why the personal, social, and political are so tightly entwined in white Evangelical spaces—and how this fuels Christian nationalism.

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Recommended Clips for Deeper Understanding:

• 04:53: Mega Churches and Trump: Numbers, Charisma, and Competition
• 17:26: Howerton on “Woke” Jesus and Trans Issues
• 28:03: Trump’s Faith: The Ever-Shifting Evangelical Standard
• 36:05: Christian Nationalism Gaslighting
• 46:18 and 54:40: Greg Laurie’s Mixed Messages of Power and Persecution
• 66:25: Driscoll & Foyt: The No-Nuance Gospel

(For further resources, see thenewevangelicals.com and check out the episode's referenced interview with lawyers re: Harvest Church case.)

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Transcript

[April A Joy]

You're listening to a new evangelicals production, The Tim and April show where we unravel faith, politics and culture. Hi, everybody.

[Tim Whitaker]

I thought you were doing the intro.

[April A Joy]

Yeah. Hello, welcome. Welcome to the Tim and April show. I am April A Joy.

[Tim Whitaker]

I'm Tim Whitaker. It's been over a year, April. We still don't know who's doing what on this show.

[April A Joy]

We've been doing better though. I feel like we haven't had as many flubs.

[Tim Whitaker]

As our chemistry gets better and better on the air, I think we could just kind of read each other's minds, you know, except for that one.

[April A Joy]

We all make mistakes and chap lips and things like chemistry.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, what a throwback. That's a great album. For those who know, that is a great album. The, the, the legendary band known as Relying K. That is. That is a banger of an album. So anyway, friends, welcome into the channel. I am Tim Whitaker. That is April the Joy. We are live on YouTube and live on Substack. If you're watching on YouTube, please give this video a like and subscribe to the channel. If you're watching on substack, hit that heart button. Consider restacking this live. Helps get this out to more and more people. Good to see everyone in the chat. Today's show will be a little bit maybe different is a good way of putting it. I don't know.

[April A Joy]

Yeah, we're not going to be focusing as much on current news, but kind of try to do more of an explainer of how so many evangelicals easily become maga. Like why that, why that jump from being. Being a part of specifically MAGA church culture. Not maga church, megachurch. Megachurch pastors.

[Tim Whitaker]

Same thing, Same thing.

[April A Joy]

And how so many of them have become MAGA and are MAGA and the similarities between those two ideologies and why there's so much overlap and just kind of explain it for those that don't come from that world.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, I think that that is well put. Obviously we are following news. We are watching what's happening in Tennessee. We're watching the in real time rollback of black voting rights. It's a huge issue and we are covering that. We will be covering it in the future. So we do see that. But for this episode, we wanted to talk a little bit more about the link between this evangelical megachurch culture and this MAGA world. Also, before we get into that really quick, we are doing a live event. We've been announcing this now for a few weeks. May 17th, it's a Sunday. We will be in Sarasota, Florida at Harvest Church doing a live podcast episode. It's totally free to attend. There's no cost, there's no ticket to just show up. Hope to meet some of you who are in the area. And we are figuring out a way to broadcast it live as well on YouTube, so stay tuned for those details. But we are so pumped to do an in person, really, our first ever in person Timber April show Live. So that's gonna be a great time.

[April A Joy]

Yeah. Not to be confused with Greg Laurie's Harvest Church.

[Tim Whitaker]

Thank you. That's a great. For the sake of this live, that's a great disclaimer. This is a different Harvest Church in Sarasota. Not at all affiliated with Harvest Church, hosted or run by Greg Lore. Also, the. The Live is being produced by the New Evangelicals. That's the organization that produces this show. It's a nonprofit organization helping people find a better path forward in faith. If you are looking for a better path away from Christian nationalism, as a Christian, check out the New Evangelicals. They have all kinds of free resources and we will be hearing a little bit more from them later on, so stay tuned for that. But yeah, I mean, sheesh, April, where should we even begin? I mean, this is quite the. Quite the spaghetti bowl to parse through, I feel like.

[April A Joy]

Yeah. So I think we are. We're going to show you a few examples in video clips of like, random pastors in this space and how they're political and just some of the talking points that they have. But I think maybe before we get into it, I just want to, I want to say what are some similarities between mega churches and megachurch pastors and the whole MAGA movement? And honestly, I think there's similarities specifically with Trump and mega church pastors. Like, if you think about it, the way that Trump has mannerisms and the way that he talks and like inflates. Inflates numbers, makes up facts, makes up statistics in the moment to prove his position. Like, mega church pastors do that all the time. They'll say, oh, yeah, last week we had a, a stadium crusade and 5,000 people got saved. We had 3,000 baptisms. Like, it's always a perfectly neat even number.

[Tim Whitaker]

Especially around Easter, right? The churches have got to brag about how many souls their mega church Super Bowl Easter service harvested for the kingdom.

[Josh Howerton]

So.

[Tim Whitaker]

So sometimes you kind of feel like churches are kind of competing with each other. Like, church down the street had a thousand salvations, but church up the street had like 1,005. And they have to make sure that. That they're very specific on that number. So there is that kind of competition, too. I. I have found being in church world.

[April A Joy]

Yeah. And think of, like, Trump, where he's like, I've solved eight wars and, like, that number fluctuates too. Like, I just. I do feel like the numbers game is very similar. Also. In church culture, you have this phrase that's called don't touch God's anointed, which is a Bible verse that is used to basically get people to. If a scandal were to break out and a pastor is involved or someone that has spiritual authority, you're not in. Like, you're not supposed to talk ill of them. It is not your job because you don't touch God's anointed. This person's been called by God. It doesn't matter what scandal they're a part of. It doesn't matter what they're being accused of. You should not be the one to, quote, unquote, call cause division.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right, Right.

[April A Joy]

Because that in and of itself is a sin.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right.

[April A Joy]

And you see that easily flip over into MAGA world, where look at. I mean, look at everything Trump has done and is doing that is terrible. And the. The MAGA members, the Trump supporters immediately defend, they don't touch God's anointed. They find ways to justify it. Like that. That culture is identical.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes, that's completely correct. I maybe just a brief explainer. Mega churches are usually measured. I think if you have an attendance of like, over. I think it's 2,000 people, something like that, or 5,000, that makes you a megachurch. Mega churches account for about one in every four church attenders. So they're not the most powerful mover. But however, when they. Some of the bigger ones have a lot of political and cultural sway. They have a lot of money. And the mega churches are usually built around someone's personality. Okay, so the way it usually works is we'll use, for example, Elevation Church. This guy named Steven Furtick starts Elevation Church back, I think, in the 90s. His personality, his charisma, his ability to speak is what grows the church along with their worship band that then becomes the main draw for people. Right. So a lot of these churches are built around usually one male figure that is kind of seen as the person being used by God to do great things for the kingdom. Don't forget, friends, in this theology, they believe that folks who are not Christian are going to burn in hell forever. Mainly folks who are not Christian like them. So they have an immense focus and effort on, on saving souls for the kingdom. So if there's some charismatic leader that is drawing people to the church in, by, by, by thousands and thousands and thousands. Right. And they are saving souls every week. In fact, Josh Howerton, who we're gonna talk about in a minute, just bragged on social media how they're about to baptize over 550 new believers. Right. Trying to show how impactful their ministry is for the kingdom. When you have that in the back of your head, of course you wanna protect the person who's at the center of saving souls from the pit of hell. That's how the logic kind of works. So these systems usually are, are going to prioritize the leaders and the charisma that keeps the people and the money flowing, usually at the expense of people who get really hurt by these churches in really dangerous ways. And again, we're going to cover a few of these examples so we can kind of paint the parallel of why so many of these church leaders and congregants find solace in maga. Because there is some direct overlap.

[April A Joy]

Yeah. And you know, there's some other similarities. You know, protect the ministry no matter what and Republican, you know, protect the political party no matter what. You've got echo chambers. You've got conformity over community. Even though they say community, it's whether or not you happen to believe the exact same things. Not about what you do. It's about whether or not you hold the same positions.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah.

[April A Joy]

And then there's like, it's just an unwillingness to learn new things because you know you are true. Like you know you're on the side of truth. You know that like you, like you believe without a shadow of doubt and you're told, do not have any doubts. We are right. Anything that goes against what you believe is an attack from Satan.

[Tim Whitaker]

It's fake news.

[April A Joy]

Yes. Or fake news.

[Tim Whitaker]

So it's just not true.

[April A Joy]

You're already primed and even going to like the conspiracy theories. When you are an evangelical, especially if you believe in like a pre millennial dispensationalism, which is a belief in the rapture. You already believe pretty bizarre things. And so moving into QAnon and there were a lot of articles that showed a direct pipeline between white evangelicalism and QAnon. It's easy to jump into conspiracy theories if you already believe that there's a big bad Satan behind. Just like regular people who just happen to vote differently than you.

[Tim Whitaker]

That's right. There's actually a book on this. I'M reading right now by our friend Jared Stacy called reality in Ruins. How conspiracy theory became essentially like kind of part and parcel of the evangelical world. And he paint, he does draw many overlaps to the QAnon conspiracy that was believed by many white evangelicals and the nature of the theology that white evangelicalism teaches. I'm not sure about you, April. I was taught very early on not to believe the scientists because the earth was created in six literal days. Anything else is false, it's not true. Druids from the world. I was taught that in the Bible, the snake in Genesis or the serpent definitely talked. Right? I was taught to believe that, but not to believe modern science around what we know about the world and the origins of life. So when you're a child and you're growing up in a world that is giving you a foundation where it's easy to believe that serpents talked or that Adam lived to be 900 plus years. Right? But you don't trust modern science. You don't trust the quote, unquote world's logic. It obviously primes people to believe in conspiratorial thinking because they're already suspending so much rational belief to get to the positions that they tend to hold. And I want to be clear, many Christians don't hold those views. Many Christians are science informed and are still very much Christian. There are many ways to reconcile both of these things that we don't have, we don't have time to get into today. But this is specifically regarding the white evangelical, like, fundamentalist world. And so there's out. There's clearly an overlap once you understand how, how you have to suspend so many. I mean, I'm not sure. Again, April, I'm not sure about you, but I remember being like maybe 17 and I'm like, okay, so marriage is between one man and one woman for life. Wait a second. If Adam and Eve were the first two people to ever exist on the planet, how did they hold to that standard without it getting, you know, without it getting really weird, like, really quick, like incestuous, obviously. And the answer, I was told was, well, sin wasn't as, like, effective back then, you know, sin has only gotten worse over time. That's the excuse I was given to suspend the. The logical question of if marriage is this, then how does this work in the Bible? And the answer was, well, sin wasn't a thing like it was today. What? That makes no sense. But I believed it, I accepted it, and I moved on. It's wild.

[April A Joy]

Totally. Also, so I want to point out all the people that we're going to be playing clips for you for are Pat. They're all pastors. They. I would lump them into the Christian nationalist category for sure, but I don't think most of them, maybe not even all of them, maybe, except for Doug Wilson, would use the Christian nationalist label. They would say that they're just good Christians that vote for biblical truth and that it's a good Christian's duty to be a good American citizen. And so we will kind of show you kind of the sneakiness of Christian nationalism and why so many white evangelicals still to this day support Donald Trump in spite of everything. It's because you have pastors like these people that we're going to show you that sneak it in there.

[Tim Whitaker]

And they're really good at social media. They have. Some of these people have a million plus followers as pastors online. They reach hundreds of thousands of people with every single post. So they're really. They are effective communicators. They're just communicating propaganda ultimately. Okay, so you want to get to our first one that you gave me? Is it okay? Oh, boy. Is it this guy? This is the one you want to talk to first that you have, right?

[April A Joy]

Sure, we can go with this.

[Tim Whitaker]

So. Yeah, go ahead.

[April A Joy]

I was going to say, this is. This is mega church pastor Josh Howerton. He's a pastor in Texas. He's gone viral a few different times for all the wrong reasons. He. He went viral a year or two ago because he was talking about a wedding and how the woman, like, when you're getting married. I don't know if you could find that clip, but basically the gist was when you're getting married, the man in the wedding will do what the wife says, stands where she wants you to stand, says what she wants you to say. Dress how she wants you to dress because you're doing. Because the wedding is for her, but the wedding night is for him.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay, I think I found it.

[April A Joy]

Yeah.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay, I think I found it. Let me see. This is right.

[April A Joy]

It probably is.

[Tim Whitaker]

Let's see. Here we go.

[Josh Howerton]

She got her first, like, wedding magazine when she was 14. She draped the blanket around her like it was her wedding dress when she was a teenager. She did the towel. Over her head is a little veil. All the stuff she's been planning this day her whole life. So here's what she need to do, man, when it comes to that day. Just stand where she tells you to stand, wear what she tells you to wear, and do what she tells you to do you'll make her the happiest woman in the world. Okay, now I got an amen. Let's see if you amen this. Now, ladies, when it comes to his wedding night, he has been planning this day his whole life. So just stand where he tells you to stand, wear what he tells you to wear, and do what he tells you to do, and you're gonna make him the happiest man in the world.

[Tim Whitaker]

There you go. That's. That's Josh Howard. Just given that. I mean, super solid. Wow.

[April A Joy]

Yeah. So he went viral for that, obviously. Like, that's very misogynistic, bro.

[Tim Whitaker]

And. Sorry. Go ahead, April. I'm passionate. I mentioned that I might get fired after this episode. I'm so worked up over some of these clips. But that also contributes to assault culture. Stand where he tells you to stand. Do what he tells you to do. That's very different than the notion of a woman planning a wedding and asking you to stand in a certain place. These are not equivalent things. And by the way, many men, including myself, help plan our weddings. We're very excited about them. I mean, call me, you know, call me not. Not a real man, but, like, I was looking forward to my wedding day because of the actual wedding ceremony. But like, that. That advice of just telling women to do whatever a guy tells you to do is so built into the mega church evangelical culture, even by churches that claim to be, you know, egalitarian, meaning women can lead. It's still very much misogynistic. And that advice, especially for two presupposed virgins, is so dangerous. It's so dangerous. Oh, my gosh. There's something funny about it.

[April A Joy]

I'm trying to remember. I do think he ended up giving a kind of a half apology, like, oh, if you were offended, I'm sorry, but it was just a joke kind of thing.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay, Josh. Hilarious. Okay.

[April A Joy]

Anyway, but there are people in this world that believe that once you say, I do that, that equals consent and for everything.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes. 100. Yes. Yes. Okay, so. All right, so this is our first clip. This is Josh Howerton, who you just heard asking, was Jesus actually woke. A pastor's response. Let's see what he has to say.

[Josh Howerton]

His left coded Christian nationalism. What this guy is advocating for.

[Tim Whitaker]

I wish I knew, because there's so many progressive Christians who pay attention to what the guy actually says. You look at Matthew 25, right? That's Jesus giving his marching orders. He gives four criteria for what Christians or a Christian society will have to do, and it's to Individuals and nations. And it's take care of the poor, take care of the sick, welcome the stranger, and be kind to those in prison. They don't do it. They don't follow the guy. They worship him. Because that's a lot easier than following his inconveniently woke teachings.

[Josh Howerton]

Okay, so the implication that you'll see here is that conservative Christians, they don't follow Jesus. It's the progressives that do. I just want to say so really what he's implying is, man, you know who does follow Jesus? The people who are trying to trans the kids and voting for policies that have killed 40 million babies. Like actually committed, like a six time over, Holocaust and LGBT, all the things. So those are the ones who are actually following Jesus. According to Mr. Hugo, he's trying to selectively edit Jesus as a mascot for his cause. But you gotta remember this, Jesus is a lord, he is not a mascot.

[Tim Whitaker]

We just have to pause it here and you're gonna see this a lot. Friends. These folks don't hear themselves. Notice how John Fugelsang, who by the way, is a great person, he's a friend of the show, Notice how he actually cites what Jesus teaches. Like he gives examples of what Jesus in the gospel accounts teaches. Jesus says nothing about transgender people. He says nothing about abortion. He. He says nothing about lgbtq, everything. And then Josh has the audacity to claim that John is the one selectively editing Jesus while Josh Howerton is being the faithful follower.

[April A Joy]

Also. It's just so, wow, it's so sensationalized, the idea of quote unquote, transing kids. Like no one, you can't. It's like, like they, they treat being trans like, like cooties. Like something you can catch. Yeah, right. You're either trans or you're not trans. And I don't know if we want to bring it up now because I'm pretty sure the trans issue comes out a lot, a few times in these clips. But the, the whole idea of like mutilating kids does not happen. Like, I, I have. I pulled up a study. So there was a study done by Harvard, by the Harvard T.H. chan School of Public Health.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay.

[April A Joy]

Found little to no utilization of gender affirming surgeries by transgender and gender diverse minors in the U.S. they also found that cisgender minors and adults had substantially high, substantially higher utilization of analogous gender affirming surgeries than their. Than their trans counterpart. Meaning there were more cisgender minors that had what they would consider gender affirming surgeries than actual trans Children, they literally make up stuff.

[Tim Whitaker]

They make stuff up and then they build entire political foundations that make people vote for a man who is actively destroying the fabric of our society and bombing kids in Iran, all because of the myth that we are somehow quote, unquote, transing kids, which is not actually happening.

[April A Joy]

That's not a thing. No one's going to school not trans. And getting quote, unquote trans by a teacher. Like, what teachers can barely afford crayons for all their students, right? They. They can't just perform surgeries because no one's getting surgery. Here's the thing. Just. Just so you know, in 2019, the study found. Zero.

[Tim Whitaker]

Zero.

[April A Joy]

There were zero surgeries performed on trans youth 12 and under. Because before puberty, when. When a per. When a child is trans, it's literally just a social change. They think they. It's how they dress. And maybe a name change, maybe pronoun change. Literally, that's it. There's no medical intervention whatsoever. And then even once you start doing some sort of transition, it's usually just puberty blockers or hormones, which, again, is not surgery. It found that between teens from 15 and older. So from 15 to adults, the rate of gender affirming surgery is 2.1 per 100,000 people.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yep.

[April A Joy]

So that's.

[Josh Howerton]

It is.

[April A Joy]

That's hardly anything.

[Tim Whitaker]

It is so rare. And by the way, it's none of Josh's dang business. Like, for all of these people talking about small government, smaller government, they actually want the government to invade the lives of people that they think are, like, not good people. They don't care about small government. They care about the government not touching them, but they have no problem using the government as a weapon to oppress their neighbors. It is none of Josh's business what happens to a child who is. Is working through their gender dysphoria with their parents and their physicians. It's just not his business. It's incredibly rare. It. It has no bearing on society. It has no bearing on. On my life. On your life. It has no bearing on the price of gas. But. But the. And you're gonna see this theme a lot, friends. These pastors hit the same talking points every single time. It's. It's transgender issues, it's abortion, maybe immigration, and occasionally you're gonna hear socialism thrown in. That's all this is. It's the same stuff over and over.

[April A Joy]

I want to clarify. And it was 2 per 100,000 people, which is. That is an ins. That is an insanely small percentage between 15 and 17 year olds and then 18 and up. It was five out of a hundred thousand people. And a majority of those surgeries were chest surgeries. But listen to this. When considering use of gender affirming breast reductions among cisgender males and trans people, the study found that cisgender, meaning they're not trans, cisgender males, accounted for the vast majority of breast reductions, with 80% of surgeries among adults performed on cisgender men and 97% of surgeries among minors performed on cisgender male teens.

[Tim Whitaker]

But hey, Pastor Josh Howton is being the biblical one here. He's the one standing on truth. He's the one preaching what Christ taught. Jarring. It's just wild to witness. My gosh. And again, these have massive influence. Massive influence. People go to the White House. They go to the White House to pray over the country. Josh Howerton does stuff with Paula White. These folks have immense power and they're pushing nonsense.

[April A Joy]

Yeah, they literally. It's just talking points that is not backed up by any data. And even what he said about killing the. What did he say? 40 million babies, children. He showed a picture of like a nine month old baby. 0. Nine month old babies have been murdered.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, yeah.

[April A Joy]

By like because of abortion, you know.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right. That's not happening.

[April A Joy]

No, does not happen. That, that would not be an abortion. That would just be a murder.

[Tim Whitaker]

I think the stat is like not something like 90% or something like that happen. Abortions happen in like the first eight, eight to 10 or 12 weeks. And I think it's, it was like it was 1% or less happen in the third trimester, which makes sense because at that point something has gone horribly wrong. People aren't just changing their mind on a whim, you know, at like, you know, week 32 or something. No, the, the, the, the nursery is built, the baby shower has happened. Something has gone terribly wrong. But again, these folks have a narrative to push. This world is so built on dogma and propaganda, which is why it sinks so well with Trump. I mean, they are a match made in heaven. They believe in pushing narrative over any kind of facts, any kind of data. That's why right now, for example, right, RFK is limiting how the vaccine mandates that we know save lives, but he's entertaining, letting minors use tanning beds. Make that make sense. Make that make sense. Someone help me, Help me.

[April A Joy]

Talking about gender affirming care, like,

[Tim Whitaker]

oh, gosh.

[Melinda Hale]

Hey, everyone, Melinda Hale here, executive director of the New Evangelicals. Thanks for listening to our podcast. I just wanted to take a minute to personally invite you to be a part of our community. At tne, we're creating space for people of faith who care about justice, compassion, and living out the teachings of Jesus in real, tangible ways. As a nonprofit organization, not only do we offer thought provoking podcasts, but on our new app and online platform, TNE Connect, we offer free educational resources, additional content, and a space to connect with like minded people for meaningful conversations and encouragement. So if what we're doing has been helpful to you, if you've learned something, felt, seen or been challenged to grow, head over to theneweevangelicals.com to join TNE Connect or make a donation. You, your support means the world to us. Thanks for being a part of the movement.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay, we're getting through this, April. I'm, I'm, I'm still pretty calm, cool and collected. Yes.

[April A Joy]

Press. Press on.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay, well, this, this gets even better. I think this is. This one made me laugh. This one was good. So again, Josh, how, like we said earlier, has a very lucrative and very big social media platforms. So these clips do hundreds of thousands of views and likes. This one really got me. This one really got me. I'll let it play. And oh my God, Remember, we just heard Josh Howard and talk about how the left is so evil and so terrible because of transgender people and abortion. Here's him talking about Trump, the man who's best friends with Jeffrey Epstein and bombing kids in Iran and lies about everything. You had talked a couple weeks ago, you were doing an interview and you talked about how you hope to end the war in Ukraine because it might help you get into heaven. How does, how does this help?

[Greg Laurie]

Does this help? I mean, you know, I'm being a little cute.

[Tim Whitaker]

I don't think there's anything going to

[Greg Laurie]

get me in heaven.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay. I really don't.

[Greg Laurie]

I think, I think I'm not maybe heaven bound. I may be in heaven right now as we fly an Air Force One. I'm not sure, Abe, but I'm going to be able to make heaven, bro.

[Josh Howerton]

That's honestly, like, I feel like you can hear a little emotion in him. It is a wonderful and good thing to have a president that cares about heaven. Like, this is actually a bigger deal than I think people will realize he might be saved. And I want to talk about why. Why I think that I've been able to have some conversations with people who work, you know, directly with the president. And I do know from talking to those people, he has people around him who have four years been clearly sharing the gospel with the President, like, very, very clearly. So he does have that. I do know that after the assassination attempt, as would happen with most people who had a near death experience, he had a significant moment of spiritual reflection in his life. And I do know that he prayed with someone in a very real way about his relationship with God. What you'll see is when President Trump says stuff like he does in that clip, what you immediately see is the reaction online is there's a bunch of like, theology nerds who, you know, have been in seminary for 50 years. They're like, see, he's not, this guy doesn't know anything. And he's, they jump all over it. As a pastor, it's like what people don't understand about President Trump is he talks about Christianity like a normal blue collar dude that didn't grow up around Christian Christianity.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay, I can't take any more of this. I'm gonna literally lose my mind and throw my computer off a freaking cliff. I just can, I cannot. And maybe this is a good time to give our, our non evangelical friends some insider baseball here because if you grew up in this world, you are, it's reinforced to you all the time that just praying a prayer isn't enough. You need to have a lifestyle of repentance that, that, that, that, that gives your heart to Christ. Where's the fruit of, of, of the prayer that you prayed? I, I mean, Donald Trump wouldn't be qualified to be a parking lot greeter on in most churches. And Josh Howerton, the Omega Church pastor who claims to be speaking on behalf of God with his spiritual authority, is making a, a serious case that Donald Trump, who has no fruit of the spirit, there's no love, there's no joy, there's no peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, or self control. He embodies none of those things. Josh Howerton is trying to make a serious case to his followers that Trump might be saved. And how dare the theological nerds. Which, by the way, is so funny because you're. It's hammered all day to know your theology. When you grow up in this world, know your theology. What does the Bible say? Read the books, Study. Study the word of God. Suddenly that's all out the window. Oh, we're a bunch of nerds. We're so judgmental. Trump's a blue collar guy talking about Christianity like a blue collar man. Oh, my gosh.

[April A Joy]

How in the world do you compare a billionaire like Donald Trump to a blue collar worker?

[Tim Whitaker]

The guy has gold toilets, for crying out loud. Just like me. I'm not sure about you, April. As a middle class dude, a blue collar content creator. I got gold toilets everywhere. Come on.

[April A Joy]

Also, the music in the background. Notice how this one was like, like really like, like angelic almost. And then when he was talking about progressive woke, it was like,

[Tim Whitaker]

that's all. But you know what, it's funny, but it's all intentional. I, I got to give it to mega church culture because I've been a part of it and so have you, April. They are really good at, like, production and getting certain emotional responses. They know how the human psyche works and what to do to get them to respond to things. That music is intentional. It feels soft, it feels loving, it feels sentimental, empathetic. Right. So of course, let's have empathy for Trump as Josh narrates his potential salvation. Oh, my gosh.

[April A Joy]

Why do you think at the end of their sermons when they're giving the altar call, they have the keyboardist come up and play pads?

[Tim Whitaker]

Exactly. But I think my favorite part about this whole video though is right here where after Trump talks, like his most Trump way, Howerton says this, I'm going

[Greg Laurie]

to be able to make heaven, bro.

[Josh Howerton]

That's honestly, like, I feel like you can hear a little emotion in him

[Tim Whitaker]

where, Josh, where, like, where's the emotion? What are you talking about?

[April A Joy]

I just love how, like, those of us who are progressive now, like, we're still Christian, you and I, to be clear, but we're progressive, we're not conservative anymore. And I get accused of like, oh, well, you were just never a Christian because if you would have ever been truly evangelical like us, you would have never left. So you were never. They say this to people who become atheists or agnostic. It's like, well, you were never saved. And then here's Donald Trump who says, like, something that is so anti evangelical, like, you say a prayer and you're in, right? There's no question on whether or not you get to go to heaven. And they're like, wow, I think he's saved.

[Tim Whitaker]

I think he's saved.

[April A Joy]

If you and I said that, like, I don't think we're going to heaven. Like, well, that's proof right there.

[Tim Whitaker]

Exactly. He, he, he even says he's like, but could be, I could be in heaven right now on this plane. What are you talking about, dude? I think you need a mental, like, you need a mental evaluation. What are you, Are you all there? And there's Josh. You know, guys, I hear some emotion in him. You know, I think he's on the right path that Trump, as we bomb children in Iran, as we roll back black voting rights because of the Supreme Court. Again, like, it doesn't compute with reality. But like we said earlier, friends, when you grow up believing that a snake really talked in Genesis 3 and that the earth is only 6,000 years old because you can't trust the science, it makes your brain susceptible to believing this stuff.

[April A Joy]

Yeah, it's so annoying.

[Tim Whitaker]

I almost missed the news cycle. We got one more from Josh.

[April A Joy]

Yeah, Last one, and then we'll move on to the next bad caster.

[Tim Whitaker]

Which one is this that we're doing?

[April A Joy]

He talks about Christian nationalism.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, my gosh. Joshy boy. Okay. Also the backwards hat. I. I look, I'm gonna be honest. I wear backwards hats sometimes. Okay. But I also understand that I'm at the age where trying to look cool makes me look that less cool. And I think Josh is kind of at that point too. So I'm just gonna recommend to Josh, like, dude, just be you. We're old. We're not in. You know, we're not young anymore. Just embrace it, man. Buy the new balances. Embrace it. Okay, here we go.

[Josh Howerton]

You guys want to see the play they're gonna try to run on Christians for the next year to try to gaslight you wrong for Christians to vote for Christian ethics. Check this out.

[April A Joy]

There's many different groups orbiting Trump, but the thing that unites them as Christian nationalists, not Christians, by the way, because Christian nationalists is very different, is that they believe that our rights as Americans as all human beings don't come from any earthly authority. They don't come from Congress. They don't come from the Supreme Court. They come from God.

[Josh Howerton]

Okay, we got a problem. Because, number one, the idea that rights don't come from governments, they come from God. That's not Christian nationalism. That's this little thing called the Declaration of Independence, the first line of which says, we hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal and are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights. Number two, if a government gives you rights, a government can take them away. Y'. All. Christian nationalism is a scare label whose subtext is, we progressives can advocate for our values in the public square, but you Christians can't advocate for yours. Very frankly, if you're a Christian who's voting or advocating for God's values in the public square and somebody calls you a, quote, Christian nationalist, 99.999% of the time, you just need to say, yep, I'm A Christian, and I love my nation.

[April A Joy]

Okay. There is so much. There's so much to say about this little thing. So this is. This is absolutely covert Christian nationalism. He is not overtly Christian nationalist, even though he's like, yeah, I mean, if by your definition, sure. But the way that he said God's values and equated. What he means is that his conservative ideology is God's values. They're equating the two, which is very sneaky. And it's how so many just regular churchgoing evangelicals fall into Christian nationalism without realizing it, because they think, oh, well, if I support taking away trans rights, if I support taking away women's rights, if I support doing all these things, that doesn't make me a Christian nationalist. That's me standing up for God's rights. And also, what the. What the f. Is he talking about in the Constitution, when the Constitution was written and said all men are created equal, we still had slavery.

[Tim Whitaker]

You mean the Declaration.

[April A Joy]

Declaration, yeah, yeah. What did I say?

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, Constitution.

[April A Joy]

Yeah, yeah. Declaration. Yeah. But like, when he. When that. Well, like, here's the thing. Christian nationalists are trying to take rights away.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes. Like, actively.

[April A Joy]

It doesn't matter what semantics you use of whether rights come from God or whatever. These people in the same group. And we'll show in a little bit like Doug Wilson, who actively believes that the 19th Amendment should be overturned and that women should not be allowed to vote.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yep. I'll just say two things about this clip. Number one, this clip that Josh shared of this woman on CNN making this Christian nationalism claim. He's right, this is a bad definition. Like, for sure, I would never subscribe to this person's understanding of Christian nationalism. But notice how Josh will never engage the actual scholarship or the. Or the. Or the actual people who are, like, studying this. He will find the one time some person on CNN makes a mistake and then uses that to paint the picture of what this whole scare tactic is supposedly of Christian nationalism is. That's my first point. The other thing, though, is the declaration says, are endowed by their Creator, not by the Christian God, not by Jesus Christ, but by their creator, meaning whoever you think your creator is, that's the person and number. That's the deity. It's not. It's not. It doesn't say the Christian God. And number three, Josh said that the government gives rights. They can take it away. That is true. Governments can do that. The government can take away rights if certain thresholds are met. And that's why we have these huge, complicated sets of laws. And court rulings trying to navigate those things. That's how a government functions, Josh. People like Josh do not believe that all men are created equal. They don't believe that trans people are created equal, that the immigrants created equal. They don't care about those people at all. They, they're always gonna do whatever they can do to reinforce their own values and their own tribe. That's why Josh voted for an administration that is using the power of big government to overrule their inalienable rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Immigrants. Hello. Like little five year old Liam had his. According to Josh, God given rights taken away by the government. Yeah. I don't see Josh Howerton all up in arms that Trump's regime is actively kidnapping our neighbors and shipping them to God knows where. Why? Because the immigrant isn't fully human in Josh's mind and is not deserving of the same rights as Josh Howerton is. That's the, that's what, that's the expose on this whole worldview. That's the emperor with no clothes. They do not believe these statements apply to everyone. They believe it applies to them, their tribe and people who think like them or will give them the power that they want. It's just that simple. It's just that simple. It is infuriating, but it's that simple.

[April A Joy]

Right. And also just the way that they're framing it too, which you and I called this early on that they're going to just, they've. They turn the term Christian nationalism and say, oh, they're just gaslighting you. They're trying to convince you that you're a Christian nationalist, but really you're just being a good Christian. They're doing like this reverse, reverse gaslighting.

[Tim Whitaker]

Totally.

[April A Joy]

Like it's all projection. What they actually.

[Tim Whitaker]

100%. 100% joining. Thank you for joining the Live. Make sure to give this video a like and subscribe to the channel on YouTube if you're watching on Lincoln Square Media via substack. Hello. Give this stream a heart. That'd be great. Reminder, we announced this earlier. The Tim and April show is traveling. We're doing our first ever in person event May 17 at in Sarasota, Florida at Harvest Church. Not affiliated with Harvest Church via Greg Laurie. This is a different church web. You can go to the website. I think it's Harvest Church Sarasota to get all the details. It's a free event. There's no cost. We would love to be able to meet you guys and hang out. It's Going to be a really, really fun time. Do you want to take a quick break and do a little spot for T and E, Then we'll come back and keep going?

[April A Joy]

Sure.

[Tim Whitaker]

All right, cool. We'll be right back. Hang tight.

[Robin Corleen]

I'm Robin Corleen. I live in Point Pleasant, New Jersey, and I'm a proud monthly supporter of T and E. I grew up in the evangelical community, and the church was very much a part of my identity. It is still painful to have lost that community and even more painful to see how the evangelical movement has become defined by political agendas and warped theology. This is one of the reasons why I really admire Tim's work in the new evangelicals. He has the ability to kind of expose these really unsettling issues and address his adversaries with love, candor, and an open mind. I think I really have to say I was taken when he went out to the Asbury Revival and reported from there. That was a moment where I decided that this is someone with integrity that I wanted to support. I also met Tim up in person at a Quaker meeting in North Jersey. And what can I say? Deep respect for a fellow Jersey boy who really showed humanity in a very small setting, not just the large ones. Tim, thanks for being the loving hand and compassionate heart of Christ in a world of angry tongues and warped minds. Peace.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay, we can't get through all these. I'm already at 45 minutes, so where do you want to go? Here. Gosh, there's God. There's just so many.

[April A Joy]

I think the rest of them are pretty short. We can skip Greg Laurie's sermon.

[Tim Whitaker]

I think that's, like, the biggest example of the Christianity.

[April A Joy]

All right, you want to just go to Greg Laurie's sermon then?

[Tim Whitaker]

I think we should.

[April A Joy]

Okay.

[Tim Whitaker]

We should talk about Greg Laurie, too, honestly.

[April A Joy]

And if you'd like more information on Greg Laurie and the scandal that is happening at Harvest Church, we just spoke to two lawyers that are currently leading a case for a lawsuit against Greg Laurie, Harvest Church, and a couple other pastors, I think other people involved at the case. Several others that are. Yeah. That are also a part of the lawsuit over a massive cover up.

[Tim Whitaker]

So.

[April A Joy]

Really horrendous. Horrendous things.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, I just. I just finished a script to do a deep dive on it on my other channel. So I'm. It's kind of fresh in my mind. But the tldr is that the lawsuit alleges that Harvest Church helped establish an orphanage in Romania between 1998-2008, where the person leading it, his name is Paul Havgard, who was a pastor on staff at Harvest Church, SA'd children at the orphanage for eight years in some of the most unimaginable, evil, depraved ways that you could possibly think of. And that leaders were made aware of this and still let Paul lead the orphanage, even after an investigation done by three other pastors not part of the church reported back to the missions pastor at Harvest named Richard Schrute saying, this guy needs to be on the next plane home. He's so bad. He's, he's, he's embarrassing the work that we're doing as missionaries. He was still left to be there and to prey on children. That is the tldr. I'm going to warn you now. It is, it's egregious stuff. And frankly, I think it's one of the biggest cover ups that we've maybe had to talk about in modern church history, frankly, for, for our work, April. So if you want the details, you can go to the TIM April Show, YouTube or our podcast and hear that interview with the lawyers who brought the suitcase. It is, it is horrific stuff. Horrific stuff to say the least.

[April A Joy]

Like, genuinely horrific. Like, that's not hyperbole.

[Tim Whitaker]

There's over in the lawsuit is 197 pages, roughly, I believe something like that. And almost 100 of them are just the allegations. And I read through it for this video I'm working on and I had to take a break several times to, to just like, clear my head because the, the, what this person is alleged to have done, I can't think of many more things more evil than that. So anyway, we'll leave it there. But Greg Laurie is a megachurch pastor who oversees Harvest, who again the lawsuit states, was aware of these things and let this go on. But he's also, as you can imagine, a huge MAGA Christian nationalist supporter. So I pulled this clip, a montage of kind of him talking about Trump when he first got reelected in 2020 or 2024, just so you guys again can hear the crossover. You can hear how they weave in the theology of what their church teaches or what these pastors teach and connecting it to Trump and why God's using Trump. So here we go.

[Greg Laurie]

Well, Donald Trump has been elected to be the President of the United States. I think this was such an important election. So much was at stake. And President Trump not only won the popular vote, he also won the Electoral College. So it really, I think you could say he has a mandate from the American people. Americans are Tired of this crazy woke agenda we've been dealing with for the last four years. We're done with it. This promoting late term abortions, mutilating our children, men in women's space sports, men and women's bathrooms. The list goes on. And I believe that God has placed President Trump in office for such a time as this. Right.

[Tim Whitaker]

I mean we should pause there. That's the talking point. Those talking points that you just heard, that is the whole reason for millions of white evangelicals that they voted for Trump based on lies or things that don't matter. What was the stat we read, April, in the, in the ncaa, right? There's like what, a quarter of a million athletes in college sports and like 10 of them were transgender. Literally 10. It was such a minuscule amount. It was such a tiny amount. Yet for Greg Laurie, that that is the issue at hand. The fact that there are 10 trans athletes in college sports, less than 10, less than 10.

[April A Joy]

Meanwhile, which made.00002%.

[Tim Whitaker]

Meanwhile, Greg Laurie, who lives in the multimillion dollar mansion, drives a $90,000 car around and is worth a lot of money. You know, he doesn't have to worry about his health care, he doesn't have to worry about livable wages, he doesn't have to worry about paying the mortgage or about the cost of gas rising over a dollar fifty a gallon on average in just a few short weeks. Right. So it's just so frustrating to see what these folks highlight. We have real issues with the country. We have real problems that we could solve. I think one more thing I'll say about this, that drives me wild and I say it often. You know, right now, April, we're paying $2 billion a day for this so called war in Iran. Congress is asking for an additional billion dollars for the ballroom. Yet you're telling me that this same Congress couldn't pass healthcare subsidies. We had to let those expire because we couldn't afford them. Like we're just being lied to so often about what we can and can't afford. And here's Greg Laurie claiming to be a follower of the crucified and risen Jesus who taught his followers to love their enemies and to take care of the hungry and to, and to take care of the poor and the sick. And what's his issue? Well, Trump is back. Trump has been appointed by God to what, Take care, to eradicate trans people. Like what are we doing here?

[April A Joy]

Like, I know and notice those are the things he brings up. Like that's just, that's the focus, it's not taking care of the poor, the widows, the orphans. We know this church didn't take care of orphans based on lawsuit.

[Tim Whitaker]

Exactly, Exactly. So frustrating.

[April A Joy]

The priorities are so misplaced. But he's convincing. I don't know how many people fit in his church, but probably thousands and thousands.

[Tim Whitaker]

Fifteen thousand attend weekly on average, plus

[April A Joy]

the live stream, plus online. Right.

[Tim Whitaker]

Plus his crusades. He does the harvest crusades that pack

[April A Joy]

out stadiums and a lot of these people. The echo chamber is not a small thing when you go to these, like, let me try to explain it for those who, if you grew up in this world, you're going to know exactly what I'm talking about. But for those who don't, when you immerse yourself in a mega church culture or evangelical culture, you end up. They convince you that your old life, like if you, if you become saved, your old life, your old friends, anyone who doesn't believe like you anymore, is a hindrance to your relationship to God. So you are then told to kind of isolate yourself, go all in to this new community of God to join the small group to volunteer at services. You know, volunteer in the nursery, volunteer for the worship team, volunteer as a greeter. Like the, the emphasis on volunteering your time, volunteering your money, getting involved, even working for the church. Like, they just, they ask more and more and more of you. And it's never really thanked. You're. You're not really thanked of like giving up your time. It's. It's something that you should be doing Y. Because God has done so much for you, because God has given you eternity in heaven. That's really what it boils down to. And how could you not give up everything for God?

[Tim Whitaker]

So souls hang in the balance. Souls hang in the balance.

[April A Joy]

Yes. And, and then you're also told, like, there is nothing more important than, than saving souls. And, and so if you see something that's bad or wrong going on in the ministry or even something that makes you go, huh, I don't like that. And you question it. You are then told, like, don't bring that up further. Don't spread that more. Because what if an unbeliever hears that and that keeps them from getting saved? So then you are taught to, to hush up. You don't say anything about even, even if your instincts, even if it's God or like the Holy Spirit or whatever you want to call it, saying like, hey, something's not right here. You' that's your sinful flesh, that is the devil. And you're you just become totally immersed in that world. You're also told, don't listen to secular music. You're told, don't watch certain shows that can. That can teach you something. You're even told, like, don't go to college.

[Tim Whitaker]

Totally.

[April A Joy]

Like the. Like, I, I went to. I was part of a really large church in Virginia that encouraged it. Encouraged. It encouraged the youth group to not go to college and to stay at the church because college, even Christian colleges, could turn you woke. And so there's this. There's this. You are taught to question, to not question what you're told, but to be suspicious of everything that goes against what you were taught is true.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes. There's a replacement for everything. Right. Get rid of your secular. I was going to say CDs, but that's so. I'm dating myself, you know, get rid of all your secular music. Here's all the Christian bands that sound like them, that are Christian. Right. Don't read these books anymore. Read these books instead. Don't watch these movies. Watch these movies instead. And to your point, either, don't go to college, but if you do, make sure it's a college that we approve of. Right. It literally is like living in a basement. And these gatekeepers interpret the world around you, and you believe their interpretation of what's actually happening outside. And so it's an incredibly isolating space that becomes very cult like, very quick. And your eternal destiny is. And the eternal destiny of your friends is tied to all of it. The stakes are high, right? They're super high. So. All right, let's keep going a little bit longer here to hear more about what Greg Laurie has to say.

[Greg Laurie]

Trump in this position for this moment in American history. This is a man who has faced incredible challenges. Two assassination attempts, and he himself has said publicly he believes that God has spared him. And I believe he's right. I don't know about you, but I want less, not more government in our lives.

[Tim Whitaker]

That's not true. Yeah, that's not true. Greg Laurie loves that this administration is using big government, which, by the way, they've exploded our deficit. Our deficit is only growing at record amounts that. He loves that the government is invading cities and arresting people with no due process. I mean, we have to really keep this in mind. I grew up on talk radio, okay? I grew up on Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Michael Savage, even Bob Grant back in the day before he passed away. And they always hammered the importance of a small, limited government, but they don't really believe It. They only mean it for themselves. They want to be left alone, able to. To continue their con, able to have no accountability. But they love when a big government invades cities that they don't like and arrests people that they think don't deserve to be here. Suddenly there's no talk about big government. And I guarantee you, and I'm. I'm not sure if we can timestamp this for the future. Maybe Cassidy could write down the date. If there's ever. Whenever a Democratic president gets back in, you're suddenly gonna hear the threat of big governments coming. Oh, the government's gonna be so big, it's gonna be a police state. Meanwhile, men like Greg Laurie actively endorsed an actual police state under this administration.

[April A Joy]

Yep.

[Greg Laurie]

I fear if the other party had won, we would be facing a pretty bleak scenario right now. And I fear that some of their anger would have been directed toward Christians and the church in particular.

[Tim Whitaker]

This is coming from a man who is worth at least $5 billion or more and lives in a $5 million mansion and tours the world in front of tens of thousands of people. And he has the caucasity to say, I'm afraid that if Harris got in, she would have threatened what I was doing. Are you kidding me? I mean, the Harvest Church started in this in the 80s. So through many Democratic presidents, Greg Laurie's ministry was able to thrive and be built and to grow, making him quite wealthy. But no, no, guys, we're so worried about, about what Harris the Christian would have done to Greg Laurie. Oh my gosh.

[April A Joy]

And one they, the examples they typically use to show that Democrats are anti Christian despite a good majority of Democrats being Christian. They use Covid, Covid shutdowns as like some Christian persecution. That's like Sean was Sean Foy told shtick and how he became well known. And then they use gay marriage. They use the idea that like oh, gay marriage is legal now and that that goes against our rights. But in the Marriage Equality act, there were literally already exception. Like there were religious exceptions in there. Nobody was making these people marry gay people, but they freaked out anyway. And then the most recent is the Joe Biden's wishing people a happy trans day of visibility on Easter because it just happened to fall on the same day. And they lost their minds over that because they don't understand calendars.

[Tim Whitaker]

Which reminds me, I'm going to work on a deep dive on this, but. So I'm not sure if you guys all know this, but the Trump administration's anti Christian bias task force released their Damning report of Joe Biden's crazy anti Christian bias. You know, the Catholic, the devout Catholic being anti Christian in the report. One of the examples they cite, and I'm not kidding, I'm not kidding, I have it right here in the report, is one of the examples they cite as proof that Joe Biden was anti Christian was the fact that Joe Biden proclaimed on Easter Sunday, March 31, as Transgender Day of Visibility, demonstrating a profound lack of consideration for the Christian faith. Never mind that Easter lands on different calendar days depending on. Depending on what year it is, but transcendent day of visibility is always on the 31st. The two just happen to coincide. Joe Biden did what has been done for years about, you know, recognizing transgender day visibility and also acknowledged Easter. And this is one post.

[April A Joy]

He had a poster post. And this is one of the.

[Tim Whitaker]

This is one of the examples they cite and their 200 page report that Joe Biden was anti Christ Christian. I'm gonna lose my mind. I'm gonna lose it. I just cannot believe these people. And Greg Laurie's out here like, wow, we dodged a bullet here. We dodged a bullet. Give me a break. Okay, watch one more minute or two, then we'll wrap up with Greg, because, my gosh. So here we go.

[Greg Laurie]

We would be facing a pretty bleak scenario right now, and I fear that some of their anger would have been directed toward Christians and the church, in particular. A piv. We need to get back to God again. We need to get back to the Bible again. And it will make all the difference in the future of the United States. So why don't we take a moment to pray for our president. Thank you for placing Donald Trump in the presidency. And we pray now that you give him wisdom to make the right decisions to have the right people surrounding him. We pray for godly counsel around him. We pray for competent people to help him do this job that you've called him to do.

[Tim Whitaker]

So far, I don't think God answered. Yeah, so far, Greg, God has not answered that prayer. And look, I mean, just. I just don't know how a pastor claiming to follow Jesus leads people in a prayer thanking God for a man who brags about assaulting women, a man who lies, a man who has enriched himself while in office at the expense of taxpayers, a man whose businesses have not paid people fairly. I just don't know how you ask God to bless a man like that. I just. I don't understand.

[April A Joy]

I also just think it's funny he didn't actually mention Romans 13, but there's this Romans 13 verse that they always quote when a Republican is president, which is that God gives us authority and that we need to basically follow the governing authorities that God places. But when a Democrat is in power, they don't. They don't quote that verse because he was just like, thank you, God, for placing President Trump. I could almost guarantee you he did not make that same prayer when God placed Joe Biden.

[Tim Whitaker]

No, I'm. Yes, exactly. Let's do one more, then we can wrap. I want to do the Sean Foyt marcher school. I think that one is so icing on the cake. Are you cool with that, April?

[April A Joy]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, go for it.

[Tim Whitaker]

I got to find it, though. So this one. Oh, this one, too.

[April A Joy]

Oh, we do have another two. Oh, they're awful.

[Tim Whitaker]

Let's just play it.

[April A Joy]

Okay.

[Tim Whitaker]

This is Josh Howerton. Sorry. This one, honestly, is the worst out of the bunch that you have to hear. I'm sorry, we have to. Don't get mad at me.

[April A Joy]

Is this other guy.

[Tim Whitaker]

He's podcasting, bro. Evangelical again. Like, you just. It makes you wonder how they. How they think. But here you go.

[Josh Howerton]

You're going to see what the electoral map would look like if only men voted. And then. Then you're going to see the electoral map, what it would look like if only women voted.

[Tim Whitaker]

And I want to talk about why

[Josh Howerton]

you think this is. So toss that one up. Obviously, on the left, that's what the electoral map would look like if only women voted. And then on the right hand, you got if only dudes voted. This is like every election, that gap seems to get wider and wider and wider.

[Tim Whitaker]

Somebody wanted to take this first.

[Sean Foyt]

The biblical ideology, right, is that a husband and a wife, and I'm my wife's protector, I'm. My wife's covering the family unit. And as the universities have begun to dismantle that and we've seen those statistics of how. How many females are just opting out of marriage altogether. And I wonder if this is all anecdotal and theoretical for me, but I wonder if it's because they now are married to the state. So if the state becomes their protector and not their husbands, then they would vote for that. And when you reverse it, with the men especially voting the other direction, if you're under 30 right now, you don't even remember a time where you weren't being blamed for being the entire problem of society of a young white male. Yeah, I'm. I'm at least old enough to remember before we were blamed for that, but so you've got men who've been completely marginalized saying, okay, someone's finally speaking for me, voting for them, and then women saying, I don't want a man, I don't want a husband, and I'll let the state be my God, and not

[Josh Howerton]

God be my God.

[Sean Foyt]

That's my theory.

[Josh Howerton]

You're.

[Tim Whitaker]

That that is a real. That, that's a real video. Friends, that's not. AI I I. I hate.

[April A Joy]

Can I. I hate when men refer, when they talk about women, they say females. To me, that's an immediate red flag.

[Tim Whitaker]

Of course, these females, you know, us, us white men who are marginalized. It's so weird that. Not weird, it's just, it's so telling that Josh Howerton will scapegoat actual marginalized people and then make it seem like white men who run the entire country are the marginalized ones in society.

[April A Joy]

I can't.

[Tim Whitaker]

I mean, I don't want to sound me, but, like, how stupid do you have to be to really believe this bs? Honestly, I think at some point we have to, we have to be honest about this. How do you really think that white men in this country are marginalized? I would love to know, considering that a white man in his very white cabinet that's actively rolling back black voting rights be at the hands of a very white Supreme Court are somehow the marginalized ones here. Josh. I get angry when I hear men like this who place themselves in position of spiritual authority, say things that are so absolutely false. It just, man, it just infuriates me. And then to blame women. I mean, men. I almost said erected men elected a man who bragged about sexually assaulting women. Why do you think women don't like this dude? Like, just use the two brain cells you have left, Josh, and put two and two together.

[April A Joy]

I don't know, Tim. I mean, if I'm being honest, I voted Democrat. Not because the other side wanted to take away my reproductive rights or my right to vote or because the guy that they were running, as you said, was adjudicated. R Word. I really just wanted to vote blue because I think the government makes a great husband.

[Tim Whitaker]

I. That makes sense, April. That makes sense.

[April A Joy]

Yeah. I was just like being married to the government as an entity, and I thought I'd like to be married into that.

[Tim Whitaker]

Well, actually, that's a good question. Does the government pay for your health care as a good partner would.

[April A Joy]

No.

[Tim Whitaker]

Did you get any paid family leave, you know, when you had children? You know, again, being a good, a good covering. I would imagine the government would be, since you love it so much.

[April A Joy]

I did not.

[Tim Whitaker]

Are your grocery prices lower? Is your gas price lower because the government?

[April A Joy]

No.

[Tim Whitaker]

Wow. Sounds like a pretty bad spouse.

[April A Joy]

Greatest. Greatest spouse I ever had. So stupid. So stupid.

[Tim Whitaker]

I'm sorry. Like, what other word can we use? And this shaping culture.

[April A Joy]

Didn't Erika Kirk make some kind of. She said something similar when they were talking about why did so many women vote for Zoran Mumdani.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah.

[April A Joy]

She was like, I think they wanted to marry him because he's the government.

[Tim Whitaker]

They wanted to marry him.

[April A Joy]

It was something similar. It was.

[Tim Whitaker]

They are really good at repeating talking points. They are really good at that. Married to the state. What does it even mean? All right, very last one, then we'll be done. Then we'll go to some. Some weird Christian bleep. Where is it, though? Is it this one? No. Is it this one? Oh, these are the same ones. I must have the wrong video up. I want to play this last one. I think it's the cherry on top of. It's Driscoll and Sean Foyt. Sorry. Oh, I got it. I got it.

[April A Joy]

Boop.

[Tim Whitaker]

So, again, for those who don't know, Mark Driscoll is a former mega church pastor who was so narcissistic and had such anger issues that he destroyed his church in Seattle called Mars Hill. 40 of his own elders wrote a letter stating he's not fit to lead in ministry. There's a podcast called the Rise and Fall of Mars Hill that documents exactly what happened. And Mark Driscoll has been able to reinvent himself and become bigger than ever because right wing Christian nationalist organizations like Turning Point usa, Still Platform, this man. That's who is in front of you right now. Okay? This guy has a. A mountain of bodies behind him. And he's even bragged about that before, by the way, he also made an alternate username called William Wallace ii where he would say misogynistic and gross things online, including calling women penis homes. That is Mark Driscoll.

[April A Joy]

I want to point out, too, he wrote a book leading up to this election that is placed in front of him in this video. You can't see the whole thing, but it says vote like Jesus. And it's a. It's a very white Jesus on the COVID You can imagine how he thinks Jesus would vote.

[Tim Whitaker]

So he's talking to another grifter named Shawn Foyt who's best friends with the Brussels brand because, you know, predators stay together or something, and they're talking about how easy this election, when it was a thing was. Listen to this clip. So do you think that there's any argument to be made for a Bible believing Christian to support the Harris Waltz campaign? This is not a hard election. This is not a difficult, complex thing. There's no nuance here. One side wants to cut off body parts of children. One side wants to kill babies up until the ninth month of them being in the womb. One side wants a complete hijacking of the economy with government controlled food prices, which always leads to socialism and destruction. This is not difficult. The fact that pastors and leaders have to even have these conversations shows how deceived the American church is. There's no nuance, there's no difficulty here. It's very easy. There you go. Very easy. This.

[April A Joy]

There you have it again. Mutilate children and abortion. This is what it's like, what they

[Tim Whitaker]

go to for, for people like me in April and many folks watching this stream, this was what it was like growing up in church. You were in bombard. Whatever the talking point was, it wasn't so much for me. It wasn't transgender people. It was, it was. Gay marriage was a big one for me. It was abortion, of course, was for me, which by the way, again, like Roe v. Wade's been overturned, but it's still not, still not enough for them. But whatever this is, this is what you're told. You're just, it's reinforced in every corner of the world of that cult you occupy, how you vote. This is what it means to vote for biblical values. Biblical values equals voting against the rights of our queer neighbors, voting against the right of bodily autonomy. And it means voting for the greedy because usually you're voting for the billionaire class. So it's, it's actually quite inverted. But you don't think about it like that because you've been brainwashed to believe, like Sean said, that other people are deceived, not you.

[April A Joy]

Yeah. Also though, that he actually kind of says a quiet part out loud there where he says there's no nuance. These are people that have a very black and white ideology. You are either on their side, which is the side of good and God, or you're on the side of the devil. There's literally no in between. And so they've. They equated the last election as Kamala. If you voted for her, you were on the side of Satan. There are some people that called her demonic Jezebel, a witch, the Antichrist, evil. But if you vote for Donald Trump, who was on a hot mic Bragging about assaulting women, that was somehow the side of God.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yep, yep, yep. That's. That's. There you go, friends. That's how it works. That world is so effective in their messaging. 80% of white evangelicals to this day support this administration despite their gas prices going up, despite the wars that Trump promised never happened, despite all the lies. And Trump being a predator himself, having credible accusations that he assaulted a girl. It doesn't matter. Touch not. God's anointed because transgender people don't exist anymore, magically, or because whatever other culture war talking point, you know, this is it. This is what it looks like. It's just a. It's a world built on lies. And the reason why April and I are so passionate about it is because it's. They're hurting our neighbors. They are. They are destroying the fabric of our economy, which is so, again, funny for Sean Foyt to say that if Harris got in, they would have, you know, destroyed our economy. Has he looked around? The job market is not really growing. The economy is so turbulent. The terrorists did not do anything like what Trump said they would do. We're in another war, paying $2 billion of our taxpayer money every day to kill kids overseas. Please tell me, Sean, how things are better. But they won't give you the answer because they live in a world of bank belief. They live in a world that is not real. Unfortunately, they are so committed to their cause, they believe that God has anointed them with the power and the ability to take over the seven mountains of influence, that they will stop at nothing. Which is why I tell people. And I don't like saying this, but it's the truth. You cannot reason with Christian nationalists like. Like we just showed you, they are not looking to compromise. They're not looking for good faith. They're not looking to find the common ground. They believe that people not like them are controlled by demons or are themselves demonic. And you can't negotiate with demons. You can't redeem demons. You can't work for a better world with demons. And so we have to find a way forward. That includes leaving your Josh Howerton's and Mark Driscolls behind because they don't want to change. They don't want to accept new information. In their mind, we are the bad people and they are God's chosen. You can't reason your way around of that. It's impossible.

[April A Joy]

Well, and also note that these people have monetary reasons to never change their mind.

[Tim Whitaker]

Thank you. Yeah. Really good. Really good. They're making a lot of money, so thank you. All right.

[April A Joy]

Anyway, we have super chats.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, yeah. Can you read these? I'll pull them up.

[April A Joy]

Yeah, I'll grab them for you.

[Tim Whitaker]

There you go.

[April A Joy]

Okay. Whoa. That's a lot. Thank you. From Morton Rev. Him Tim. Something has gone terribly wrong. My brain. I'm scared. You're scared. We're scared of this.

[Tim Whitaker]

Amen. I'm with you.

[April A Joy]

Thank you so much for that super chat from Stevie Clown 2000. Gotta love the scare tactics line. What hypocrites these MAGA people do. Totally. Joseph Compton. I'm thoroughly convinced that conservative white evangelical Christians are perhaps the most spiritually lost and deceived people in the nation. The sad thing is that they're too proud to see it. I could see that. Thank you for the super chat from Prez Base or Bass. Your video on Greg Laurie's mission in Romania really affected me. I think it's time for Christians to stand up and fight with zero tolerance for anything bad involving children. Absolutely. Thank you so much for the super chat. Joseph Compton. Again, thank you. They've made God in their own image. They think God's angry at them and the nation. That's. Yeah, that's so true.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay, real quick, friends. Before we get to our last segment, our weird Christian belief, we are following a story that is. Is bizarre. Thank you. Yeah.

[April A Joy]

Can I. Can I give the headline?

[Tim Whitaker]

You do it. You do it.

[April A Joy]

Okay. There are a few pastors on the Interweb that are claiming that the US Government officials brought a bunch of pastors to a random Airbnb to have a secret meeting where they were not allowed to record or have their cell phones or anything, and were then told that the government is about to reveal some information that basically says that aliens are real and that they need to start preparing their church because they think this could lead to people questioning their faith.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yep, this is Christian.

[April A Joy]

Twitter is freaking out.

[Tim Whitaker]

MSN is reporting on this along with some other channels. According to Stone, the officials warned a small group of pastors with a large reach in the Christian community that the government was about to release reports and possibly videos of aliens and spacecraft which were not from this planet. That is the. That's the alleged meaning. Now, I will say the people spreading this are. Well, they look like this just to give you guys an example of their background set.

[April A Joy]

So can I just say, this is Perry Stone, and he's from Cleveland, Tennessee, which is where I used to live.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay.

[April A Joy]

So I'm very familiar with Perry. He's very Pentecostal.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay. Okay. Say the very Pentecostal Charismatic, you know, prophecy. Okay. And I did notice that the people that it seems were part of this alleged meeting were more on the charismatic side who tend to spread crazy things. Anyway, these are the people who thought that, you know, God wasn't done with Trump, which is why God was going to magically overturn the election results. Cat Kerr, who we've covered, talks about visiting heaven and seeing Charlie Kirk riding a dinosaur while rollerblading. Like, it's really weird stuff. So Perry Stone is kind of in that lane. So I don't. I don't take this with, like, you know, a lot of weight, but it is a thing that we are following because. Why not? Why not?

[April A Joy]

We did have. We did have one more super chat come in.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, then we'll. All right, cool. Then we'll do our We're Christian plea.

[April A Joy]

Oh, two more super chats.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay, here's one.

[April A Joy]

Paul for equality. God sent Trump to expose the moral rot within his church. Maga. Now we know who the white supremacists are in our church.

[Tim Whitaker]

I mean, it's a positive take.

[April A Joy]

Yep. And then from Melanie and Lee, Donald Trump is the one with the Jezebel spirit. Controlling, excluding. I really. I kind of like giving men the Jezebel spirit because I feel like they would really hate that. Just saying you have a Jezebel spirit. Just throw it. Throw it back at him.

[Tim Whitaker]

No, I'm with you. All right, last segment. Shall we get to it?

[April A Joy]

Yes. Weird Christian.

[Tim Whitaker]

Hopefully I have it up. Should Christian. I do. Okay, I'm ready.

[April A Joy]

Let me explain this for those who may not know. This guy's talking about Fortnite, which is a video game. It is a first person shooter. Last one standing wins Battle royale type game. And you.

[Tim Whitaker]

Thank you for telling me. I don't play Fortnite. No clue.

[April A Joy]

So I actually do play Fortnite. So you can earn V bucks and you can buy certain. They're called skins. When he says skins, it basically just means they're different characters that you can buy and you can play as. Okay, that is context for this video.

[Tim Whitaker]

Should Christians buy thick Fortnite skins or is that simple? The skin itself is not magically sinful just because of how it looks. But Christians should still think about what influences their thoughts, desires, and attention. Even non Christians should be aware. See, the Bible teaches that lust starts in the heart long before actions happen outwardly. So what matters most is whether something is pulling you closer to God or distracting you from him. So what do you think crosses a line is it okay or is it not? Should. There you go.

[April A Joy]

Reminds me of that meme that's like, there are people dying, Kim.

[Tim Whitaker]

I just wish that they would apply this to Trump. Like, out of all the things happening in the world, this is what you want people to know about. Like, you're asking the question if a certain type of skin in Fortnite is sinful or not. How about you think about who you voted for? What?

[April A Joy]

I don't know. Maybe. Maybe this guy has. I don't know. But I'm just like, oh, I am so glad I don't live in that world anymore where I have to just like, oh, my God. Thank every little thing that I do to be like, is this simple? Does this glorify God? Is this outfit God honoring?

[Tim Whitaker]

Like, oh, how about going out? Going out on a date where you think, I have to marry this person or else, oh, I've been there. Dating in church is not like, hey, we got dinner. We had a nice time. We're enjoying each other's company. No, it's like, is this the one or not? Are you going to marry this person or not? Don't play games. Don't play games. Like, after dinner, after the first dinner you go to, you need to know, is this person your soulmate or not? Like, you're just second guessing everything all the time.

[April A Joy]

Oh, I know. So exhausting. But the guy. The guy, you could tell, he was struggling. He played Fortnite. He probably bought a skimpy skin and was like, is this honoring God? I should make a video about it. We need to talk about this. This is important stuff in the kingdom of God.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, kids are being bombed in Iran. But hey, here's a real important question. Check your heart, friends. When you play Fortnite, like, oh, my gosh.

[April A Joy]

Oh, we have a new Super Chat.

[Tim Whitaker]

It's a sword drill.

[April A Joy]

Oh, gosh. Okay, swords up.

[Tim Whitaker]

Ready?

[April A Joy]

Hold on. What is it?

[Tim Whitaker]

Mark 12. 17.

[April A Joy]

Mark 12. 17. Go.

[Greg Laurie]

Okay.

[April A Joy]

Mark 12.

[Tim Whitaker]

I got it.

[April A Joy]

No, you didn't.

[Tim Whitaker]

Then Jesus told them, give back to Caesar the things that are Caesar's and to God the things that are gods.

[April A Joy]

That are gods. And they were amazing.

[Tim Whitaker]

Two, zero, baby.

[April A Joy]

Dang it.

[Tim Whitaker]

Thanks for the super chat, uncle faggot.

[April A Joy]

Maybe I need a better Bible. Maybe my. My pages are too thin.

[Tim Whitaker]

Here come the excuses. Okay, that must be it. Ye. Or I'm paying people ahead of time and bookmarking. All right, friends, that's all the time we got on this show. Thanks so much for being here. Thank you for. For the super chats. And for following us. Like we said, we're going to be in Sarasota, Florida, May 17, in person at Harvest Church, sponsored by the New Evangelicals and, of course, Harvest Church. It's gonna be a great time. It's totally free, so make sure you show up. We'd love to meet you and say hello. And we will be back here next. Well, we'll be back here on YouTube on Tuesday with a video, and then we'll be back live on Thursday on substack and on YouTube. So I'm Tim Whitaker.

[April A Joy]

And I'm April A. Joy.

[Tim Whitaker]

See ya.

[April A Joy]

Bye.

[Josh Howerton]

Bye.