114. Dangerously Weird: The Christian Nationalism at Rededicate 250

Summary

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Podcast Summary

Podcast: The Tim & April Show
Hosts: Tim Whitaker & April Ajoy
Network: The New Evangelicals
Episode: 114. Dangerously Weird: The Christian Nationalism at Rededicate 250
Release Date: May 22, 2026
Main Theme:
A deep dive into the rise and manifestation of Christian Nationalism in America, with a focus on the government-funded “Rededicate 250” event in Washington, D.C., and its implications for faith, politics, and culture.

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Overview

This episode dissects the alarming convergence of U.S. government resources and far-right Christian Nationalist ideology, as epitomized by the “Rededicate 250” event. Tim and April unpack the roots, rhetoric, and ramifications of Christian Nationalism, reflect on personal experiences in progressive faith, respond to current events, and use humor and lived anecdotes to process and challenge the Christian Nationalist narrative.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Recap & Live Podcast Experience

Timestamps: 01:06–06:00

• Tim and April reminisce about their recent live show at Harvest Church in Sarasota, Florida, praising it as a fully-inclusive, affirming, progressive church that mimics the “evangelical production vibe.”
• April reflects on delight at hearing live laughter for her sketch comedy for the first time.
  • “Hearing people laugh, it was just music to my ears.” (April, 02:20)
• Anecdotes about April’s love for lizards, including playful banter about being a “lizard person," revealing their camaraderie and light-hearted rapport.

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2. Deconstructing Worship & Christian Spaces

Timestamps: 07:51–12:32

• Discussion on reclaiming evangelical music for progressive, affirming spaces:
  • “It was weird because April and I walk in and they’re singing ‘The Blessing’ but there’s a gay person on stage, fully affirmed. It was a real mind twist for me.” (Tim, 08:01)
• Story of Avalon’s queer member re-recording "Testify to Love":
  • “All of us ex-evangelicals can’t stop crying because it’s healing something in us...to finally hear this [affirming] song sung by someone embodying the values it declares.” (Tim, 11:04)

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3. Mass Shooting at San Diego Mosque: Christian Nationalism’s Deadly Consequences

Timestamps: 12:32–17:20

• Brief, sensitive coverage of the San Diego mass shooting at a mosque: Two white nationalist teens, radicalized online, left a manifesto identifying as “Christo ethno-fascist.”

• The attack’s roots traced to pervasive Islamophobia in far-right and Christian Nationalist spaces, underscored by examples of bigoted quotes from U.S. lawmakers.

• Tribute to Amin Abdullah, security guard who died protecting children.

  “This is a direct result from all the Islamophobia that we see from white Christian nationalist spaces.” (April, 15:49)

  “These sentiments are popular…They are absolutely popular in right-wing spaces. These outcomes are not shocking.” (Tim, 17:22)

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4. Rededicate 250: A Government-Funded Christian Nationalist Rally

Timestamps: 17:52–24:34

What Happened:

• “Rededicate 250” was a government-backed, 9-hour Christian event on the National Mall, celebrating the alleged “rededication of America to God.”
• Funded by $100 million of taxpayer money via the “Freedom 250” organization.

The Debate:

• Tim sees the event as a Christian Nationalist “victory lap”, signifying stunning progress for the movement by enshrining their ideology in federal resources and livestreams.
  • “For a Christian nationalist, that’s a wet dream.” (Tim, 20:11)
• April counters that it’s desperate performance, not a win: They are losing cultural ground and resorting to spectacle for dwindling followers.
  • “They are so scared...They know they've lost the culture war...I think this is them trying to convince themselves it’s not as bad as it seems.” (April, 25:30)
• The audience is polled—results are split, symbolizing the ambiguity and complexity of the event’s impact.

Symbolism:

• Discussed how terms like “rededicate” are uniquely evangelical and not used outside churchy spaces, showing the coded language aligning nation with personal salvation narratives.

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5. Christian Nationalist Ideology Exposed: Franklin Graham & Friends

Timestamps: 28:32–36:53

Franklin Graham’s Propaganda (Audio Breakdown):

• Graham paints a mythological past: The Founders’ America as biblically literate and morally upright, juxtaposed with a present “morally rotten, sick with sin.”
  • “If they had an understanding of God’s word, why did we have slavery?” (Tim, 31:08)
• Highlights predictable scapegoats: transgenderism, same-sex marriage, abortion—nothing about structural injustices or empire violence.
  • “Just to be clear, when they talk about moral decline, they’re talking about two things. Abortion and the fact that queer people exist.” (April, 34:30)
• April and Tim note the contradictions—Graham ignores violence and immorality when championed by Trump or right-wing causes.

General Audience Reflections:

• An attendee, a mother, shares sincere but deeply programmed anxiety about her “lost” adult children, framing their non-participation in church as “serving the devil.”
  • Tim: “That is what it looks like on the ground. They really believe this stuff, even though it’s full of contradictions.” (Tim, 46:07)

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6. Metaxas’ “Ballroom”—Prophetic Parody Or Parody of Prophecy?

Timestamps: 47:34–54:33

• Eric Metaxas (author, far-right pundit) went viral for (semi-jokingly) claiming God raised up Donald Trump specifically to build a White House ballroom.
  • “It’s hard to believe that it would take two centuries for the Lord to raise up a great man to bring that ballroom.” (Eric Metaxas, 49:16)
• Defends it as a “joke,” but the crowd receives it as literal, worshipful adoration—showing the blurred line between satire and sincerity in these spaces.
  • April: “If that whole thing’s a joke…the joke is mocking Trump. But he is a simp for Donald Trump.”
  • Tim: “You can’t write parody anymore...they are just walking caricatures.” (50:14)

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7. The Sneaky Power of Worship Music in Christian Nationalism

Timestamps: 56:16–58:43

• Chris Tomlin, a top evangelical worship artist, leads worship at Rededicate 250.
• Tim & April discuss how “God is a good, good father” songs are used for emotional manipulation in these spaces—even detaching “God’s presence” from context and ethics.
  • “That is why it’s so hard to stop Christian nationalism…Because people think they’re just being good Christians, because they have people like Chris Tomlin and Franklin Graham telling them that’s what it means.” (April, 57:17)

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8. Humor, Community, and Escaping Purity Culture

Timestamps: 66:34–72:26

• Playful banter about Bible “sword drills” and being tricked by a non-existent “2 Hezekiah.”
• Closes with humorous dissection of a TikTok about “flicking the bean” and evangelical purity culture, concluding with encouragement to embrace healthy sexuality and reject repression.
  • “Evangelicals are the most sex-obsessed people ever. They can’t stop talking about it—especially other people’s genitals.” (Tim, 71:12)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “To hear this song sung by someone who embodies the values it declares—there’s something beautiful about seeing it reclaimed.” (Tim, 11:04)
• “They’re not fearful, just ‘concerned.' But really, they’ve been told unless their children believe exactly as they do, they’ll burn in hell. It’s so cruel and extreme.” (April, 44:18)
• “[Christian nationalism] is a perversion of both Christianity and the Constitution.” (April, 58:43)
• “You can’t write parody anymore. They are just walking caricatures of themselves.” (Tim, 50:14)
• “Chris Tomlin, you’re a bad, bad Christian. It’s who you are.” (April, 57:44)

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Important Segments by Timestamp

• 01:06–06:00: Recap of live show, humor, production notes
• 07:51–12:32: Affirming spaces, reclaiming Christian music, Avalon testimony
• 12:32–17:20: Mass shooting at San Diego mosque; Christian Nationalist ideology’s real-life consequences
• 17:52–24:34: Rededicate 250—Was it a “victory lap” for Christian Nationalism?
• 28:32–36:53: Franklin Graham’s speech dissected; the mythological Christian past
• 47:34–54:33: Eric Metaxas and the “ballroom prophecy” debacle
• 56:16–58:43: Chris Tomlin, worship music, and Christian Nationalism’s manipulation
• 66:34–72:26: Humor, sword drill, purity culture, and “flicking the bean”

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Tone & Approach

• The episode is energetic, sometimes irreverent, compassionate, and incisive.
• Hosts use humor to defuse and highlight the absurdities and dangers of Christian Nationalist ideology.
• They balance first-hand stories, in-depth analysis, and direct quotes from event leaders to connect abstract issues to real consequences for individuals and communities.

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Final Reflection

Episode 114 captures a critical moment at the intersection of faith, politics, and culture in 2026 America. The “Rededicate 250” event is a bold marker of Christian Nationalism’s ascent, with state resources openly commandeered for a narrow, exclusionary vision of American identity. Through sharp critique, lived experience, and community engagement, Tim and April underscore why reclaiming faith for love, justice, and inclusivity has never been more vital.

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Transcript

[April Ajoy]

You're listening to a new evangelicals production.

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[April Ajoy]

The Tim and April show, where we unravel faith, politics and culture.

[Tim Whitaker]

Dang it. It happened again.

[April Ajoy]

Tim.

[Tim Whitaker]

I'm sorry. There you go.

[April Ajoy]

How nice of you to let me be seen.

[Tim Whitaker]

My program is obviously misogynistic. I will reach out to the developers and tell them stop doing that to clearly.

[April Ajoy]

So rude.

[Tim Whitaker]

So rude.

[April Ajoy]

Hello everybody. Welcome to the 2 in April show. I am April Ajoy.

[Tim Whitaker]

I'm Tim Whitaker and this is our

[April Ajoy]

first live since we were live in Sarasota, Florida.

[Tim Whitaker]

I know, I miss it. I mean, we were together for three days. Was it Friday through Sunday? We did a full podcast in person together. And now we're back to the screen. Now I'm back to looking into a camera.

[Event Interviewer]

I know.

[April Ajoy]

Back to the basics. It was fun though. We had a good time.

[Tim Whitaker]

It was fun. Yes. Shout out to Harvest Church in Sarasota, Florida. Who asked us to come out? Dan Miners, the pastor over there. Frankly that they're doing amazing work. Like, highly recommended. We had so much fun. We had such a great time. It was so chill. The live podcast on Sunday morning went really, really well. It was fun having an audience because, you know, on our side, right. All I see is a number of viewers at any given time with no, there's no faces behind him, there's no bodies. It's just a number. So I'm trying to imagine people in front of me, but not having to do that was really, really nice.

[April Ajoy]

It was nice. It was actually cool too because I. We played, we did our usual weird Christian bleep. And the one that we played on Sunday was this warlock lady that Beatri and I actually did a sketch too.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah.

[April Ajoy]

And we played the sketch video after. And I was telling Beecher it was really fun actually hearing people laugh at my sketch comedies because I don't ever get that. I don't ever watch people watch my videos. I see the comments and people being like, oh, this is funny. Which is. Which is, you know, affirming in its own way. But hearing people laugh, it was just music to my ears.

[Tim Whitaker]

I don't know if people. And by the way, if you're just joining the stream, welcome into the Tim and April show. Please make sure to give this video a like subscribe to our channel if you're on Substack. Hi, everyone. Hit that heart button. It means so much to us. But I don't think people know how much creative imaginational dreaming you have to do to do this stuff because you have to imagine that people are watching. You have to imagine that people hopefully are laughing. So to have people actually watch or laugh, it is like, okay, okay. It's not just likes people actually find this content funny. But frankly, I will say, and I've seen a lot of your sketches. You have some. You and I have done some good ones. The Christian Missionaries to the Christian Nationals was good. I think the Warlock one was maybe one of my top five that you've ever done.

[April Ajoy]

It was fun. I was so excited when I first saw the original. I sent it to beer immediately. Is like, we have to do this. And be sure also was excited. I literally. It's the first time I've ever done this. I ordered a whole costume just for this video. I usually just deal with what I have. Like, my production value is very minimal. But I was like, no, we need a Merlin costume.

[Tim Whitaker]

I think there are three moments in that video. And then we'll stop talking about this. That make it one is, should we

[April Ajoy]

play it for the people that didn't see it so they don't have it?

[Tim Whitaker]

I'll try and find it throughout the show. I have it somewhere. But my favorite part is a when. When. When you stab Beecher and Beecher makes that face and then you're yelling, dominion. Dominion. And then of course, with the witches flying around the house. So, anyway, okay, yeah, no, we had a good time. I do want to play. You know, we had. We had some fun and we discovered that you are a lizard person and I am not.

[April Ajoy]

That sounds like a qanon conspiracy, that sort of lizard person.

[Tim Whitaker]

My bad. That came out totally wrong. You are a fan of the lizards.

[April Ajoy]

I'm a fan of animals in general. And I used to live in Florida. So one of my favorite things about Florida is there are just lizards everywhere and you can go and catch them. So I used to catch lizards all the time. My favorite, I went to the Kennedy Space Museum in Florida one time. I was in high school, and I had just heard this story where people would catch lizards and they, like, hold it up to their ears and the lizard will automatically, like, open their mouth and then they, like, dangle his earrings. And so I was trying to do that as a high schooler. And listen, I thought, I don't think that's probably great for the lizards. For the record, I'VE probably not grown since then.

[Tim Whitaker]

You've evolved.

[April Ajoy]

I know. Before someone comes for me, they will.

[Tim Whitaker]

Absolutely. You're someone, actually, when you do that. All right, I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

[April Ajoy]

For the record. Record. I caught it and I put it on my shoulder and it went up into my hair and it stayed in my hair for like three hours as we walked through the museum. And it was so fun. I just had a little pet in my. My hair. So anyway, I just. I just like lizards, so.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay, so. So. So we're in. We're. We're. This is Saturday. We're just kind of going through the run of show. We're behind in the green room. Green room. It's obviously just a tech room. And here's what happens. While we're hanging out, here's a little video for you found.

[April Ajoy]

Please be my friend.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, my God. Oh, you're crazy. Oh, he's got.

[April Ajoy]

He's coming. I want you.

[Tim Whitaker]

No, don't get. Dan. We found a lizard that April's trying to get. There's a lizard back here and April's trying to catch it. So. One sec.

[April Ajoy]

No. Oh, don't squish him so. I'm not trying to.

[Tim Whitaker]

I call.

[April Ajoy]

No, he might be gone.

[Tim Whitaker]

No, you're not.

[April Ajoy]

And they just stay there. They love you.

[Tim Whitaker]

You're so determined. I didn't know you had this. I love little lizard.

[April Ajoy]

I love lizards. I miss them.

[Tim Whitaker]

I don't know. Oh, you're right. There he is. He's right. Don't believe her. Hold on.

[April Ajoy]

Damn it. Come here.

[Tim Whitaker]

You're literally on your hands and he's looking for this.

[Event Interviewer]

There he is.

[Tim Whitaker]

There he is. Oh, you're right.

[April Ajoy]

Do you notice how he changed?

[Tim Whitaker]

This was quite the ordeal. Did you get him?

[April Ajoy]

I spent a long time.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, this is. I cut a lot of content out.

[April Ajoy]

You're gonna be my friend. It's okay.

[Tim Whitaker]

Do they bite? No.

[April Ajoy]

It's okay.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, my gosh.

[April Ajoy]

No.

[Tim Whitaker]

April.

[April Ajoy]

I got him.

[Tim Whitaker]

Here comes Dan as a Baptist. Yeah, it's the master. Got it.

[April Ajoy]

I'm going to release you, friend.

[Tim Whitaker]

Should we give it a prayer? Yeah, the blessing. May his favor be upon you. That's all I know.

[April Ajoy]

Your children and your children. Oh, he's letting me pet him.

[Tim Whitaker]

The end.

[April Ajoy]

Everyone, I feel like I need to say no lizards were harmed in the making of that video.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes.

[April Ajoy]

And in fact, I see. I could have.

[Tim Whitaker]

Sorry. Sorry. It was a different scene. I had to get you in. You're in. It will never happen again, I promise.

[April Ajoy]

I saved that Lizard. Because another thing that happens in Florida is lizards get stuck inside houses and buildings and they have. They don't find food and so they just die. Like the amount of dried up dead lizards you find inside is quite often. So I saved that lizard's life?

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes. No, for sure.

[April Ajoy]

And he became my friend.

[Tim Whitaker]

There is one more thing I think that's worth mentioning. This is kind of a side note that we didn't plan, but I think it's actually worth mentioning. So one of the things that. That happened this Sunday, so this church, it's. It's not. It's not associated with Greg Laurie's church, Harvest. So these are very different things. To be clear, this Harvest church in, in Florida is completely progressive, fully inclusive, fully affirming. But they also look like an evangelical church. They have an LED wall, they have a professional sound guy. So it was weird because April and I walk in on Sunday morning and. And they're singing the Blessing, but there's a gay person on the stage, like singing the song, being fully affirmed. And I had this moment where I was like, oh my gosh. If these songs were being sung in by people who embodied the values that some of these songs declare, like, like, like the Blessing. It's a beautiful song. I think it's really well written. Obviously it's from scripture. It's. It's beautiful. And so to watch that happen was like, really weird for me because I'm like, I want to, like. All my emotional spidey senses went off, you know, from like the worship music days. So I get all emotional, I feel the power of whatever. And I'm like, wait, I'm not gonna fall for it again. But also the Sage is fully inclusive and affirming. It was a real mind twist for me. April. I was like, I'm not sure what to do with this because I'm looking at a very evangelical production that I used to love being a part of. But I left because of all the reasons that we talk about. And here it is kind of some of it being reclaimed and used in ways that are totally affirming. That was really nice.

[April Ajoy]

Well, that is something that I really appreciate because I typically like the more evangelical style of music and production, probably just cause that's what I'm used to. Which we go to a Methodist church now, which we really like. But I think there need to be more of the upbeat, contemporary style affirming churches, because there are a lot of affirming churches, but they're usually more liturgical and more high church, which there's nothing wrong with that if that's what you prefer. But I do think there's a lot of kind of like culture shock from people that deconstruct out of evangelicalism that are looking for an affirming church. It is really hard to find that same style that is progressive. But that actually reminds me. And we didn't put it on our list to talk about and I promise we're going to get to our main point in a second. But two former members of Avalon just re recorded and re released Testify to Love, which is a great classic.

[Tim Whitaker]

If you didn't grow up in the church. I'm so sorry, but this is such insider. It's like baseball here. Testify to Love is like one of maybe the top three most played CCM songs of like my childhood.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah. And Avalon was huge. And like the 90s, like for as

[Tim Whitaker]

long as I wore their shirt. I was 12, I had the Avalon shirt. Oh yeah. And that song's a bop. That song's a bop.

[April Ajoy]

It is. It is a bop. It's it. I could. I could still jam to it.

[Tim Whitaker]

Same.

[April Ajoy]

But they re released it because one of the Avalon members came out as gay and then obviously got kicked out of Avalon because.

[Tim Whitaker]

Well, the member was the person who, who sang that song. His name is Michael. So he was like the lead singer on that song then when he was

[April Ajoy]

one of the original Avalon members.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, but he. And he would. But so Avalon is a quartet. There's four vocalists who sing. Michael led that song, but he got kicked out for being gay. And then all these years later, he's now married, he's still a Christian, he has a husband, him and another former member from Avalon who deconstructed, re re recorded and rereleased the song. And for some reason, all of us ex evangelicals can't stop crying because it's healing something in us. Like literally I. Every time I listen to it, I get emotional, my eyes water. I did a response video to it on Instagram where I'm literally crying. And again, it's the same thing where I'm finally hearing this song sung by someone who embodies the values that the song declares. And I think the reason why that's so powerful is because a lot of us who grew up in these conservative evangelical spaces are so bewildered. Because we are, I would argue, even though our beliefs look different now, we're only. They're only different because we took the values we were given of loving the world and loving God and loving all the children of the world. We took Those values, seriously. And so our beliefs evolved. So I don't know, it's just something really beautiful about listening to that song and seeing it kind of reclaimed, you know?

[April Ajoy]

Yeah. And I love the reclaiming aspect of it. Like, because there are a lot of really beautiful things that we were taught growing up and just because we're following those things now that we're suddenly heretics. But no, I'm fully on board with a queer Testify to Love.

[Tim Whitaker]

I'm all about it. I'm all about it. And friends, if you're looking for a better path forward in faith regarding Testify to Love, check out the new evangelicals for the organization that sponsors and produces this show. It's amazing. Tons of free resources. Check out TNE Connect. You'll see a little bit more about them later on. But just a quick shout out. Shout out to tne. Okay, you want to get into kind of like our two main stories? Yeah, yeah. So this first thing we do want to mention, just talk about, we're not going to go too deep into because we're still looking into what the details behind it. But I'm sure a lot of you saw the horrific, tragic news that there was a mass shooting at a mosque in San Diego that was committed by two young men. They were 17 and 18. And look, I've been following the story behind the scenes. I've been reading whatever I can. I've seen a lot of things that I don't want to ever see again. But it looks like from what we can tell based on all the evidence, these were two white nationalists. Two kids who were radicalized online, who met each other online, found themselves down the far right, alt right, pipeline left, a 75 page manifesto behind where one of them talks about being a Christo etho fascist. So there is a lot of stuff that we still have to uncover and figure out. But the manifesto was full of anti Semitism, anti anti Islamic sentiments, anti queer sentiments. They also hated Trump, which some people might go, oh, I don't get it. They must be left wing. No, no, no. The far right doesn't like Trump. Nick Fuentes, who is part of this groiper movement that he started, doesn't like Trump because Trump is selling out to Israel and bombing Iran. So there's a whole movement, right.

[April Ajoy]

They don't like him for like anti Semitic and Because they don't think Trump is far right enough.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes, exactly. He's not white nationalist enough. And it looks like that was the main motivation behind why these two people did what they did. And look I mean, we could do, and we're going to plan, I think, a deeper dive into the blatant Islamophobia that lives in the broader Christian nationalist space. I mean, April, you and I grew up in this world, right? 911 happened. I'm hearing about radical Islam all the time. I'm taught to fear anyone who's labeled an imam or a mosque. So there's this deep sentiment that I think lives in the American psyche and really is. Is grown in these far right spaces. But I do want to highlight one person in memory of what happened. So Amin Abdullah was the security guard who was shot and killed and martyred trying to protect children. He saw what was happening. He died while being on, while on the phone telling the school, because this, this mosque also had a, like a school for children to lock down and to, you know, call the police. And he was shot and killed. So we do want to pay, you know, honor and respect to what he did, laying down his life for the sake of some of the most vulnerable in our society. But we want to at least mention that we have seen this story. We are following it. I am tracking it. I'm trying to get more hard information. There's so much noise when this stuff comes out. I don't want to pedal false information, but everything I've said has been verified by the authorities and by, you know, legitimate news sites. So definitely looks like a white supremacist attack for sure.

[April Ajoy]

This is a direct result from all the Islamophobia that we see from white Christian nationalist spaces. Like, I remember we showed a tweet from Ali Bastecki a couple months ago where she asked her audience, what do they fear the most? And she tweets out that they fear the most. An Islamic takeover of America like that is. That's been a narrative that they've been pushing in these circles for a long time, but especially in the last year, that there's this Sharia law that Muslims are coming to take over, and it's based on absolute zero evidence or facts and a complete misunderstanding of Islam.

[Tim Whitaker]

I also think that, that we don't realize the level of Islamophobia inside our own government. So I have a website here with a few different quotes. So Senator Tommy Tuberville from Alabama said in December that Islam is not a religion, it's a cult. Representative Andy Ogles in Tennessee said in March, muslims don't belong in American society. Pluralism is a lie. Another person, Randy Fine out of Florida, said earlier this year, and I'm quoting here, if they Force us to choose. The choice between dogs and Muslims is not a difficult one. Okay. This is again, these are sitting lawmakers, friends that say this kind of stuff. And Laura Loomer, who is Trump's adviser, said that in first off, who's incredibly racist and Islamophobic, said in response to this shooting that she wants Muslims to be safe, which is why they should leave and go back to their country. That was her response to this. So this is not, I just want to emphasize, this is not what these.

[April Ajoy]

This didn't happen in a vacuum.

[Tim Whitaker]

Thank you. It is popular in the right wing spaces. These sentiments are popular. They are absolutely popular. What else do you do when someone takes you seriously? When you say Muslims are invading the country? Muslims want Sharia law in the country, defend the homeland. You put two and two together. These outcomes are not shocking. I mean, it's surprising. They're shocking, but they're not surprising. So we definitely wanted to highlight that for sure.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah. Okay. So now, speaking of white Christian nationalism.

[Tim Whitaker]

Nice segue.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah. We're going to cover this huge rededicate 250 service that they had on Sunday in Washington D.C. that they were all celebrating as this rededication of America to God. And I actually have a question.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah.

[April Ajoy]

Rededicate feels so evangelical coded to me. I don't think I've ever heard anyone use the term rededicate outside of church. Like you rededicate yourself to God. You just rededicate your life to the cause of Christ. Do people use that word outside of evangelicalism? I've never heard it.

[Tim Whitaker]

Anyway, I don't know.

[April Ajoy]

So they're rededicating America to God. America is going down to the altar, kneeling and rededicating.

[Tim Whitaker]

Look at that.

[April Ajoy]

Their life, which. The whole premise of rededicate America to God is a misnomer already because America was not founded as a Christian nation, despite everyone trying to make it. So. There were definitely Christians that were part of the founding and there were Christian aspects because a lot of people were Christian back then. But the Constitution is very specifically not Christian.

[Tim Whitaker]

Not Christian. You would think for all these so called Christian, you know, nationalists that lived back in the day that if they wanted a Christian nation, they would say so in our Constitution. They would just say it, that America is a Christian nation and we will be governed by the Ten Commandments and by the Bible, you would think they would put it in, but they haven't. So a couple things you guys should know about this event. Actually. This was paid for by taxpayer money. Your taxpayer money went to Making this event happen. It was funded by Freedom 250, which was the organization that put on Rededicate 250 and Freedom 250 has received, according to USA Today. You can fact check me, $100 million in taxpayer money. 100 million. So what we have here and April, I think you and I might disagree on this a little bit. And that's okay. I saw what happened on Sunday as a Christian nationalist victory lap. They've officially gotten our government to use taxpayer money to put on a, a blatantly Christian supremacist nine hour long event that even the White House social media channels livestreamed that for a Christian nationalist, that's a wet dream. The fact that we got the US government to declare America a Christian nation by doing a nine hour revival style service. I mean, look at the size of that stage. That stage is, it's audacious. So to me, I think that your hardline Christian nationalist leaders were over the moon, ecstatic that taxpayers funded this blatant violation of the First Amendment.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah, but see, are you calling it a victory lap in the idea that they viewed it as such?

[Tim Whitaker]

I think some of them did for sure. For sure. Well, I have the tweet. I have the tweet. What to you? I have a tweet that will prove it.

[April Ajoy]

To prove it to me.

[Tim Whitaker]

I will. But go ahead.

[April Ajoy]

Who. Here's the thing. I don't, I don't think it was a victory lap because to me that makes it sound like they won, which they absolutely didn't. I put this in the same category as evangelicals that say, oh, we're having a revival, but the revival is just like long worship nights that happen to have like, I don't know, five nights in a row or something like, oh, God had revival, but they didn't take care of the sick, they didn't take care of the poor. People's lives in the community didn't get better. Like, is that actually revival? Like, to me, them even claiming rededicate is, is a performance. It's all performative. There's nothing that's actually being done to make America Christian. It's like the Bible verse. These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.

[Tim Whitaker]

No, I'm with you. But look, here's what I'm saying though. What you're saying is right. But they don't think revival looks like feeding the poor. They think revival looks like the picture I just showed you. Americans bowing their knee to God in acts of worship. Right? That's what they see as revival. And the fact that, again, our U.S. government, with the sitting president, participated in, in this event, to me, I think they're like, guys, we did it. Like we are. We're running this government.

[April Ajoy]

Was Trump even there in person?

[Tim Whitaker]

No, they, he sent the video in. Okay, but look, look, look. Okay, so I, I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying how they interpret all of these actions. So, Eric, I would.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah, okay, go ahead.

[Tim Whitaker]

Sorry. You want to, I don't want to cut you off.

[April Ajoy]

No, that's fine. I don't. I, I still think a lot of them are terrified. And I think a lot of the reason why they're pushing things as hard as they are is because they know they've lost the culture war. They're very unpopular. Trump's approval rating has never been lower. And I think a lot of what they're doing, I think maybe outwardly they would say this was a victory lap and they're naming and claiming it, but I, these people are so scared. Midterms are coming. I'm just saying, I think if you put a polygraph on them and ask them, like, do you think America's a Christian nation? I don't think they'd pass.

[Tim Whitaker]

Cassidy, if you're listening, can we put a poll in the chat on YouTube and do, do you think this was a victory lap or not? I'm just kind of curious what the audience thinks. I want to, I want to see their opinion, but I, I just disagree. I just disagree. I think overall the sentiment, yeah, they are scared, but they're also big believers in prophecy. Eric Bataxas tweeted this out. Lou Angle and Dutch sheets, these are two major players in the NAR New Apostolic Reformation. Backstage watching President Trump read 2nd Chronicles 7:14, there is significance to this moment. These two men have prayed and labored for revival for decades. I think that, that, that, that the top leaders of this movement saw Sunday as a huge win for them, a huge victory. Again, like our, think about it. They, they want America to be a Christian nation. And our government just spent taxpayer money to put on a nine hour long, not just religious service. It wasn't ecumenical at all. There was no progressive Christians there. There was no mainline Christians there. Conservative, mostly white Christians led this thing. I think for them, they're like, God, you're, you're doing it. You are giving us this land that we've been praying for for decades.

[April Ajoy]

I mean, I, obviously they're going to view it as a good thing, but I don't think they've won. I don't think they think they've won by any means. Otherwise they'd stop fear mongering, they'd stop bringing up the trans people like, oh, we can't give an inch, or they'll take it back. Like, I don't, I don't. I just don't view it as a victory lap. Also, I hardly saw anyone talking about this except for the people that were there. I feel like if God was really involved and we're rededicating America, more people would have cared.

[Tim Whitaker]

I don't know. Maybe.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah, to me, it feels very name and claim. Like, of course. Like, when I was in this world, we would say all the time, like, yeah, we got to take America back to God. We got to rededicate to God. And I, I don't know, I feel like maybe we're arguing semantics here, but I just, I don't think it's. I don't think it's as impactful as they're pretending it is.

[Tim Whitaker]

I'm looking at the poll. I'm looking at the poll right now. So as of right now, on YouTube, 40% think that it's a victory lap, 28% say no, and 33% say unsure. So keep voting, friends. I want to keep an eye on this throughout the show.

[April Ajoy]

I just feel like it's semantics because we're arguing on whether or not they viewed it as.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, I'm not trying to argue. I'm just. I think that we just see this a little bit differently. I think that that's actually good. I think that, like, you know, and I want to see what our audience, how they viewed what happened on Sunday, because to me, I was like, oh, my gosh. Like, this is just crazy, right?

[April Ajoy]

But I, to me, it feels like they're just patting themselves on the back to try to convince every. They are bleeding numbers. There are people waking up and leaving. Like, look at how low Trump's approval rating is. And all I'm saying is I think this was them trying to convince themselves that it's not as bad as it seems. They're trying to keep the last people from leaving, too. It's very desperate.

[Tim Whitaker]

I think you and I are. We come at it from a different angle of, I'm more of a glass half empty. You're like a glass half full. I'm like, yeah, maybe they're losing numbers, but they're gaining power. I mean, look at the Supreme Court. They just gutted the Voting Rights act, and now states are gerrymandering in the south for, you know, it's just like those things is what I think about. But I know what you're saying. I don't disagree. So maybe we should maybe pull a few clips that we have and kind of show people what was going on here. I do want to show this tweet first. So I did track a lot of, like, the noise coming out of this event. There were a lot of tweets like this. So this is from an account called Tim Kain7. As far as I can tell, it was a real account, not a bot account. And he posted for such a time as this with an American flag. America is a covenant nation. In the picture is Trump on the left kneeling down in prayer, which is comical. And then George Washington on the right kneeling down in prayer. And there's like. And each picture kind of shows them in their own historical context, but kind of merged. And that is, I think, for people who are part of this, that is the ideal that they had that, that God is being used by Trump. Like how God used George Washington to fulfill the promises and the. And the prophetic whatever, you know, calling that America has on her.

[April Ajoy]

So gross.

[Tim Whitaker]

It is gross.

[April Ajoy]

More gross than the pictures of Trump and Jesus, but it's right up there.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah. What's funny about this is that this is what propaganda looks like because Trump doesn't pray. Trump has said he doesn't like to ask for forgiveness, but people see this and go, that's right.

[April Ajoy]

He doesn't need forgiveness, Tim. Yeah, he's perfect.

[Tim Whitaker]

He's perfect.

[April Ajoy]

The second coming of Christ.

[Melinda Hale]

Hey everyone, Melinda Hale here, executive director of the New Evangelicals. Thanks for listening to our podcast. I just wanted to take a minute to personally invite you to be a part of our community. At tne, we're creating space for people of faith who care about justice, compassion, and living out the teachings of Jesus in real, tangible ways. As a nonprofit organization, not only do we offer thought provoking podcasts, but on our new app and online platform, T and E Connect, we offer free educational resources, additional content, and a space to connect with like minded people for meaningful conversations and encouragement. So if what we're doing has been helpful to you, if you've learned something, felt seen, or been challenged to grow, head over to thenewevangelicals.com to join TNE Connect or make a donation. Your support means the world to us. Thanks for being a part of the movement.

[Tim Whitaker]

Do you want to go to Franklin Graham or the lady who was in line?

[April Ajoy]

I don't care. Either.

[Tim Whitaker]

Let's go to Franklin Graham first. I want to show people kind of like, especially for folks who might be kind of new to this world of Christian nationalism, I want to show you all, like, kind of the ideology that goes into the culture war mentality. Franklin Graham is arguably one of the most. One of the most prolific and popular Christian nationalist leaders out there. Arguably.

[Event Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Tim Whitaker]

You know, he's in.

[April Ajoy]

He put all the CPACs. He spoke at Trump rallies. Yeah.

[Tim Whitaker]

He prayed over Trump's inauguration. During the second time he. He led a prayer.

[April Ajoy]

He has given Christians permission to support an Antichrist, quite frankly, quite literally. He gives so much cover for Donald Trump. Talk about a huge disappointment, this man.

[Tim Whitaker]

To give you guys an example, this is a man who, after the January 6th insurrection, compared the Republicans who voted with the Democrats to impeach Trump to Judas who betrayed Jesus for 30 pieces of silver. That's what we're talking about here.

[April Ajoy]

Also, when the Epstein files, everyone was talking about how Trump was in them. He was like, well, you know, God has a file on each one of us and nothing compare. Epstein files don't compare to God. Files like, Franklin, get out of here.

[Tim Whitaker]

Shut up. So he sent it a little message for rededicate. We'll kind of respond. It's not super long, about two or three minutes. Just behold.

[Franklin Graham]

The spiritual climate of 2026 is vastly different than the country that our founding fathers established in 1776. The vast majority of Americans then had at least a basic understanding of the Bible. Today, the vast majority have little to no understanding of biblical truth. 250 years ago, the Bible was taught in schools. For many, it was their sole textbook. That doesn't mean everybody had faith, but they had a basic understanding and respect and knowledge of God's word.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay, can we just. You're watching the mythological past propaganda speech in real time. Because if you thought. If you think about what he just said. First off, if all they had was a Bible for education, that's. That's not a good thing at all. Who wants to go back to that? For. For anything. Sciences, you know, all that. But also, if they had. If. If America, whoever America is back then, had this understanding of God's word, why did we have slavery? Why was that enshrined into our institutions? Franklin, like, do you hear what you're arguing for? Like, why was back then so great? For who? For who?

[April Ajoy]

Yeah.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, my gosh. Just wild. Like. Like, just think about the words that you're saying. Okay, keep going.

[Franklin Graham]

Today, the Bible has been removed from our schools. And for the most part, the public square there is a downward moral decline spiraling ever deeper into the mire. Things that never would have been talked about publicly just 30 years ago. Sinful behavior that should make us blush is now celebrated and flaunted on Main Street America.

[Tim Whitaker]

Hmm.

[April Ajoy]

Naj, to your point, we used to celebrate and flaunt slavery like they would do public lynchings.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah.

[April Ajoy]

What moral decline is he talking about? Like, how do you get more morally decline than thinking that people based on their skin color are not really human, are not fully human?

[Tim Whitaker]

Also, you know, Franklin, it's interesting because you talk about we celebrate things that were unthinkable. Do you mean like presidents who brag about grabbing women? Presidents who say that they would date their own daughter if she wasn't their daughter? People who were best friends with the most prolific, prolific pedophile, maybe in the world who signed his birthday cards and we celebrate him and even call him God ordained? That sounds pretty unthinkable to me. I can't think about a time in my lifetime where we had a president like that that was openly celebrated. Like, again, like, just like Franklin, look in the mirror. Just if.

[April Ajoy]

If he was talking about this complete takeover of our government and the fact that we didn't even talk about this. The fact that Trump is using taxpayer money to give reparations to January sixers.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right, right, right.

[April Ajoy]

Like insurrectionists.

[Tim Whitaker]

This is what is so. I think, for so many of us who grew up in this world, so infuriating. It's like, Franklin, the values that you're espousing, you betray openly. Last thing I want to mention is that the Bible is in the public square and Christianity is in the public square. You know how I know? Because the thing that Franklin Graham is at is a huge public spectacle funded by taxpayer mundy for nine hours at the National Mall. How much more public can you get people?

[April Ajoy]

That's the thing, they make videos like this. Like, we're in this huge moral decline. This is like, emergency to save America from, you know, evil Democrats or whatever, while they actually have so much power. So much. I can't be bothered. Like, they've been in power for really. They've always been in power, but there's been Democrats that have become president, but they never lost power. And it's just so wild. And just to be clear, when they talk about moral decline, they're talking about two things. Abortion and the fact that queer people exist. They have a clear misunderstanding on what abortion is. And in fact, this past Tuesday, we did a deep Dive on abortion with a dog.

[Tim Whitaker]

So good.

[April Ajoy]

It's actually very informative. It explains exactly what it is. And the misconceptions and right wing propaganda that we were taught, that's wrong. But it's literally just that. And the fact that queer people exist and that we're. We allow them to have human rights.

[Tim Whitaker]

April, is it true that this is your first time seeing this video?

[April Ajoy]

It is true.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay, now listen.

[Franklin Graham]

America has become morally rotten, completely sick with sin, Transgenderism, same sex marriage, opening women's locker rooms to men are just the tip of the iceberg.

[Tim Whitaker]

There you go. You called it. You literally called it.

[April Ajoy]

I called it because it's so predictable.

[Tim Whitaker]

It's so easy. It's so easy.

[April Ajoy]

It was the same thing when I was in this movement. Abortion, queer people. That's it.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, yeah, that's all they got. And maybe now immigration, like, those are your three at some point. It's one of those three. Just pick one. Either our nation's being flooded and, you know, we're losing the country, or it's abortion or it's gay people. It's just rinse and repeat. Let's wrap up his, his, his little tirade here.

[Franklin Graham]

Why do we need to rededicate ourselves? When God sent the flood and destroyed the earth, it was because man's heart had become so evil and violent. In the news, we see unimaginable violence. Rapes, murders, many mass shootings. On YouTube, there's so much violence. Movies, video games are full of violence. We have an insatiable appetite for violence. And I believe this grieves the heart of God.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay, he stops here. I just need to say this. And April, the floor is yours. This man prayed over Trump's second inauguration. He said, quote, look at what God has done. This administration is bombing kids in Iran and is killing people in international waters with no due process is so violent as sending mass federal agents into blue cities to kidnap children. And now he says, you know, violence grieves the heart of God. No, like, he doesn't really believe that. He does not believe any of that. America exports 42% of all global arms across the world. We are a violent empire built on white supremacy. This country protects one type of person, historically, always rich white men and whatever they wanna do. And so it's just very frustrating again, to hear Franklin talk in a way where you're like, Franklin on the surface. I agree, violence isn't good. We are a violent nation. But what does he mean by that? Not by the. He doesn't mean the actual reality. On the ground. He means it in some kind of ethereal way that gets people to think, oh, yeah, the left is violent.

[Eric Metaxas]

The.

[Tim Whitaker]

The demonic left is evil, the Marxists are evil. It's just dog whistling for that kind of thing. So frustrating.

[April Ajoy]

You know, if there's one. Beecher and I were talking about this. Beecher is my spouse. And there's one silver lining in this. The way Christian nationalism nationalists are just so prominent right now is that I remember in Sunday school growing up, or just in the church Even, just like 10 years ago, you know, you hear that verse where they go, they say, like, lord, did we not prophesy in your name and drive out demons and perform many miracles? And then Jesus looks at them and says, depart from me. I never knew you. I remember, like, feeling all really convicted in those moments and making sure, like, who, who's. Who would he be talking about? Is it me? You know, you, like, look around like, well, it's not them. Could it be them? Like, you know. Yeah, like, I was so, like, just such a good girl. Like, you know, I was so paranoid. Like, I don't want to be that. I want to make sure I'm always doing it for the right, like, reasons, that my heart is in the right place, that I'm following Jesus with everything that I have.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yep.

[April Ajoy]

I look around now, though, and I'm like, well, at least I know it's them.

[Tim Whitaker]

No, but that's true. I was. You know, you. You and I are very similar when it comes to our levels of anxiety. We talk about this often and I was the same way as a kid. I was always searching my heart, always walking down the aisle, always double checking myself. Yeah, I'm with you all the way on that. It's really interesting. Do you want to read a few super chats and we'll get to the next piece of this? By the way, if you're just joining the live, I have a favor to ask. If you're watching this live right now on YouTube, can you please hit the like button? It will cost you nothing. It will really help us out. So just move your little finger, hit the like button, you can move on with your day. It really helps if you're on substack, the heart button helps. It also makes us feel really loved. So thank you. Let's. Let's read a few super chats, then we'll get to. I want to play a video of someone in the audience who was interviewed so you can hear the direct correlation between Franklin Graham's rhetoric and how it translates to just the general population of people who believe this stuff. Okay, here we go. Super chats. Can you read these?

[April Ajoy]

Yes. From Justine Bailey. Loved the warlock sketch from you and Beecher, April. Really funny. Thank you. We were proud of it. Tandyman. My wife is usually at work on Thursday. She is home today, so I would like to say hi, Tandy Woman. Hi, Tandy Woman.

[Tim Whitaker]

Hello. Thank you for watching

[April Ajoy]

Joseph Compton. In order for the nation to truly be rededicated to God, they would have to repent of racism, misogyny, violence against the innocent, and on and on. They would have been praying for hours just in repentance alone. Completely agree. And from Dolk Dogan, any AI images I see of Trump praying, I just imagine him sleeping like he always seems to do now in pressers. Also, what's up with the AI barn behind Graham? Yes, that is a great question.

[Tim Whitaker]

That's hilarious.

[April Ajoy]

We have a couple more here from Fricko Frico. I know that you two are the new evangelicals, but what do you think about high church Protestants like Aiden Clay, Anglicanism and Lutheranism? I'm great with it if they're queer farming.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, right. Pretty much.

[April Ajoy]

Joseph Compton. People like Franklin Graham ignore racism. It's all through their community. Not one word utter about it. Yep, it's True. From Addison, VFD40, Elizabeth 29. As a queer person raised in this movement, Graham makes me so sick. I feel that Last one from cartoon 49. Any plans on being on I had it podcast soon? No plans, but we will be on it.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, we'll be on it.

[April Ajoy]

So thank you all for the super chats.

[Tim Whitaker]

Thank you so much. Okay, so how does Franklin Graham's rhetoric translate? Well, here's an interview that was done by a woman at the event. Listen to this. And we'll kind of get into it. Here we go.

[Event Interviewer]

Actually, we waited until the end of the line and then we got in real quick. So we've been here maybe half an hour like you said.

[April Ajoy]

All right, that's not too bad. And where are you from?

[Event Interviewer]

We are from San Diego, California.

[April Ajoy]

So you made quite a trip to be here.

[Event Interviewer]

We did, yes. I couldn't miss it.

[April Ajoy]

What made you want to come out today for this specific event?

[Event Interviewer]

Because I love Jesus and I want my nation to be under God and under Jesus again.

[April Ajoy]

What are you most concerned about seeing in this country as a Christian?

[Event Interviewer]

Just all the sin that's being pushed. My children have. We have fallen for it. And they're not, you know, they're not serving God, but they're Serving the devil right now. And so my biggest fear is actually I don't have fear because I have Jesus.

[April Ajoy]

Amen.

[Event Interviewer]

Yeah. For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but a power, love, and a sound mind. So my only concern is that we have to stop all of the, all of the stuff that they're pushing on our kids that is demonic.

[April Ajoy]

And how old are your kids, if you don't mind me asking?

[Event Interviewer]

They're 29, 25 and 21.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay, so we'll, we'll, we'll resume in a minute. But obviously what's happened here is that this woman had kids, probably grew up in the church. They got into the real world, realized that maybe I don't believe some of this stuff or maybe that maybe one of them was, maybe some of them were gay. Who, who knows? And this woman's response is they're under demonic attack and Satan is stealing our kids. So I'm at this event because I believe in Jesus and America needs to be brought back to God because of the demonic left.

[April Ajoy]

I was just thinking that the chances that her children are actually worshiping the devil are none, but I thought, what if, like the off chance they actually

[Tim Whitaker]

are, they're actual, like the, the stereotypical devil worshiping person that you would imagine.

[April Ajoy]

Anyway, I just love the evangelicalness of her being like my greatest fear. And then she stops herself and like, oh, no, I can't have fear. That's not what that is.

[Tim Whitaker]

I'm not here out of fear.

[April Ajoy]

God didn't give me a spirit of fear.

[Tim Whitaker]

It's a concern.

[April Ajoy]

It's just a concern. Yeah, like, oh, I do not miss just the constant, like overthinking every little thing because you want to make sure you're saying it in the right, evangelical, good Christian way.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right. Obviously she traveled, she obviously traveled 3,000 miles because she's afraid of what's happening in her country and what's happening to her kids. But she can't say that because that's not what evangelicals would say. So you use the word concern instead. It's like, it's like when you were an evangelical, you would say F instead of the actual word. So the same thing. Like you mean the same exact thing. Yeah. You know, also, I just, again, it just shows like, what kind of Jesus they follow because, yeah, Jesus didn't really talk about any of these things. Like, Jesus has to feed the hungry and take care of the sick, etc. Okay, she's almost done here with the interview.

[April Ajoy]

Well, we'll keep them in our prayers. And that they, they get to a sound place in their mind. And have you met any interesting people while you've been here? Seen any interesting protesters?

[Event Interviewer]

Very much interesting protesters. You know what is interesting is there's maybe 20 of them and thousands of us.

[April Ajoy]

Absolutely. I'm not sure if they'll see that on the media, but.

[Event Interviewer]

Right.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah.

[Event Interviewer]

No, you won't see it on the media.

[Tim Whitaker]

There you go. So I don't know what to say.

[April Ajoy]

It's just, I guess I, it, it makes me sad that I, I, she, I feel like she's probably genuinely sincere and why she's there. And like she's, she's legitimately concerned, not fearful, concerned about.

[Tim Whitaker]

Don't say that for an April.

[April Ajoy]

Right. Because she's probably been told that her kids, unless they believe exactly like she does when they die, are going to burn in hell. And even like it's a black, like the black and white ideology that her kids were serving God but now they're serving the devil, like.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right.

[April Ajoy]

There's no in between. So extreme. And she probably genuinely has that fear and she's so concerned about her kids because, I mean, that is drilled into Christian parents and evangelical churches, like raise them. Right. You want to make sure that your children obey God and that's like the, your number one goal in life. Not that they're fed, not that they're healthy, not that they have a degree or a good career. Like your number one goal in life is to make sure that they obey God. And then if they don't, you feel like you failed as a parent.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes.

[April Ajoy]

Like you failed your, your children's souls, that is.

[Tim Whitaker]

And that you're not praying hard enough. That you're not praying hard enough. You don't trust God enough. Maybe you did something wrong as a parent. I mean, yeah, it creates a deep anxiety because April, I mean, eternity is so much longer than this finite time on earth. So who cares what they're doing now if they burn hell forever? And by the way, as a parent, the thought of my child getting a boo boo, let alone burning forever in hell is a, it's a terrifying thought. It's a horrific thought. Right. So I can easily see how if a parent believes this about their child, how they would be absolutely gutted, full of anxiety, you know, just broken all the time if that child walked away from the one true faith. And look, we, I shared this person's video not to make fun of her. She's a person who I think is, is in a lot of ways like a victim of this Worldview being pushed by people like Franklin Graham and all those folks. But that's what it looks like kind of on the ground. They really believe this stuff, even though it's full of contradictions. They. You can't see it. And I say that as someone who was in that world, like you, April. Right. We lived in that world. We had the same ideology in a lot of ways, of faith over fear. And, you know, even though I'm anxious all the time, I trust that God has given me a spirit, you know, not a fear, but of righteousness and of, you know, peace. It's just a really weird place to be. So.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah.

[Leonard Stevenson]

Hi, my name is Leonard Stevenson. The seeds of my deconstruction go back to 2016, but I started deconstructing in a big way from Christian fundamentalism in 2019. Since then, I've been continually searching for more information and resources to help me understand the Bible and Christianity better. I first discovered the New Evangelicals podcast and Facebook group about a year ago and found it to be a tremendously good resource for both information and for online community. Before encountering the New Evangelicals, my deconstruction journey had been primarily intellectual. It was through the New Evangelicals Facebook group that I began to slowly understand all the pain that so many were feeling coming from fundamentalism. This gradually opened my eyes to the systemic problems with fundamentalist theology that had always been there, but that had been nearly invisible to me before. Like others in the community, I'm still devoted to seeking God in the Christian tradition, but doing so in better ways. I continue to find the New Evangelicals to be a good resource for doing this. Thank you.

[April Ajoy]

What are we going to go to next, Metaxas?

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Now we gotta have some fun. I mean, obviously we definitely have to, so. Oh, gosh. Oh, God. Eric Metaxas. So if you guys don't know, Eric Metaxas is a very prolific, like, figure in this. In this modern Christian nationalist world. He wrote several books. One of them is a biography on Dietrich Bonhoeffer. Dietrich Bonhoeffer is a very famous theologian who grew up in Nazi Germany, and actually, even though he was committed to peace, was part of an assassination attempt, and he defied the church in Germany that was falling for Hitler. And so he's very well known. Metaxas wrote a book about his biography about his story that was so bad. Like, the. The Bonhoeffer Society of, like, all the academics who study the life of Bonhoeffer rejected it. And some of them told me that they should only use it as a paperweight. Okay. Metaxas also wrote a book where he says that churches who hang BLM and queer flag or Pride flags in their churches can be compared to churches who hung the Nazi flag back in Nazi Germany. I'm not kidding.

[April Ajoy]

Ridiculous.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, I have the book here. It's page 62. Okay. Look it up right here.

[April Ajoy]

And then a couple of weeks ago, too, we have a video, part one and a part two, where we respond to a podcast that he did with Megan Basham about James Talarico and progressive Christianity. And we just go through it.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah.

[April Ajoy]

Line by line, if you want more on him.

[Tim Whitaker]

So Eric went viral because during his speech at this rededicate summit, here's what he said. And this is a little bit of. We left some context in, so you'll hear in a minute, but here's what he said.

[Eric Metaxas]

Us again. In the War of 1812, burning parts of that city named after George Washington. You may be familiar with that city. They burned parts of the city, including the White House, which at that time, if you can believe it, did not yet have a ballroom. Yes. It's hard to believe that it would take two centuries for the Lord to raise up a great man, to bring that ballroom finally to stand where it needs to stand. It's extraordinary. We only had to wait 200 years. So after they burned the White House, which I may have mentioned did not at that time have a ballroom, the British turned their attentions to Baltimore.

[Tim Whitaker]

We're so back, baby.

[April Ajoy]

You can't.

[Tim Whitaker]

Trump is.

[April Ajoy]

You can't write parody anymore. It is getting really hard when they are just walking caricatures of themselves.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes, yes.

[April Ajoy]

So there was a shorter version of this clip that went viral where he's. Where he talks about hard to believe that it took 200 years for God to raise up a man to bring the ballroom or whatever. And so people are clipping that being like, wtf? God has raised many people in the past. Moses to free the Israelites, Esther to save her people. I mean, Noah built the ark. You could say MLK Jr came along to help with civil rights and bring equality. That is currently being rolled back. And then God raised Donald Trump to build a ballroom in one little country in the entire world that he created.

[Tim Whitaker]

That is now being asked. That is now being funded, arguably by our money again, up to the tune of a billion dollars. So thank you, God. Thank you, you generous, good, good father.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah. So he went viral for this, and people were being like, wow, what an idiot.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah.

[April Ajoy]

Obviously, he has since come out to be like, no, you're the idiot, because I was joking.

[Tim Whitaker]

Here's the clip of that.

[Eric Metaxas]

It's like the funniest thing ever. I gave my speech on the National Mall to rededicate the nation to God. Like, the whole thing is just solemn and beautiful. But of course, at the end of my speech, I was gonna introduce Laura Osnes to sing us Star Spangled Banner. So I had a reference, you know, The War of 1812, when Francis Cocky wrote the song. And so I said, you know, and they burned the White House in 1812. And then I could not resist a dumb joke. And I said, and it's hard to believe, but in Those days, in 1812, if you can believe it, the White House did not have a ballroom, which is so dumb. But if you know my humor, right? The crowd, of course, got the joke and erupted in laughter. So it's this joyous moment.

[Tim Whitaker]

Joyous.

[Eric Metaxas]

All my friends are texting me. Great line, hilarious line. I Then look on social media, the Trump deranged left and David French and the Huffington Post and the Daily Beast all didn't get the joke and are freaking out that this MAGA speaker on this solemn occasion would, would say that God raised up Donald Trump to build a. I. It's just the funniest thing that they didn't get the joke. And I, I just said, I've got, I've gotta, like, I've gotta do a social posting on this because you cannot believe how bitterness kills humor and joy. It's just unbelievable. So, yeah, yeah, it was a joke, but if you're bitter, you don't laugh. God.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay, listen, I can say one thing. I love David French. I love how he specifically calls out David French. I'm dead. All right, go ahead.

[April Ajoy]

Sorry. So he, I would agree that the part that he mentioned in this video where he says, In 1812, if you didn't believe it, they didn't have a ballroom. That was a joke. That was tongue in cheek. And people in the audience laughed. We heard the laughter. Here's the thing, right after that, right, he talks about, who knew, who would have thought it took 200 years for God to raise up a man for the ballroom? And everyone cheers. You even see that one lady in the audience, she raises her hand like praising God. That part was. And that was the part that was clipped, not the joke.

[Tim Whitaker]

Exactly. So here, here it is.

[Eric Metaxas]

Leave it. Did not yet have a ballroom.

[Tim Whitaker]

That's the joke. Okay, look, there's a lady laughing. She's laughing.

[April Ajoy]

Haha.

[Tim Whitaker]

That's the joke.

[Eric Metaxas]

It's hard to believe that it would take two centuries for the Lord to raise up a great man to bring that ballroom finally to stand.

[Tim Whitaker]

That's not the joke.

[April Ajoy]

He's raising.

[Tim Whitaker]

She's raising her moment.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah. They're clapping.

[Tim Whitaker]

Hey, listen. Listen closely.

[Eric Metaxas]

It needs to stand.

[Tim Whitaker]

They're cheering.

[Eric Metaxas]

It's extraordinary.

[Tim Whitaker]

We only had to wait 200, so

[April Ajoy]

what can I just say? And to play devil's advocate, if that whole thing's a joke, right? The whole ballroom talk is him making a joke. The joke is him mocking Trump.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right.

[April Ajoy]

And mocking how stupid the ballroom is.

[Tim Whitaker]

How stupid.

[April Ajoy]

I think that's what he's doing because he is a simp for Donald Trump.

[Tim Whitaker]

I love how he talks about bitterness and it's like, dude, you know, Trump is bitter 24 7, 365. Like, the man is the most bitter human being maybe I've ever seen in my life.

[April Ajoy]

Talks about losing the 2020 election.

[Tim Whitaker]

He still talks about Rosie O' Donnell sometimes.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah. The fact that he's still now wanting to give money to the people that were arrested for trying to overthrow our government.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, my gosh.

[April Ajoy]

Like they committed treason.

[Tim Whitaker]

It's crazy. It's crazy. I don't even know what to say. Hey, that, that, that is what is difficult. And the last thing we wanted to mention about this event is that there was worship music. There was worship music that happened. I mean, again, nine hours. It was kind of like a music speaker. Music special thing. Speaker and one of the people. And again, this is a little. I know not everyone who watches our show grew up evangelical, but let me tell you the name. Chris Tomlinson. Anyone who grew up like us or even broader knows this name. Chris Tomlin, arguably one of the most popular worship leaders ever. To see him take the stage at this event and to lead people in worship to the God of really of power and money. As he sings the song, you're a good, good father, I couldn't help but think, like, to whom? Like, to who, who, who, who is this guy taking care of as a father figure? Not five year old Liam. Right? Not Renee Nicole Good. Or her child. Like, it's just so conditional. And it was really frustrating and sad to watch this man sell himself out for the sake of money and power and fame. Had to mention.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah, well, and he, he's also been at the White House worship events before, too. But this is one of the more sneaky parts about Christian nationalism. And we've talked at length about this on other episodes, but they will use regular worship songs that really have nothing to do with America and nothing to do with politics that are just generic. You know, God is good, God is love, you're a good father, great is our God. Like very typical Christian beliefs. And so people will hear these worship songs at an event like this and think God is here, the Holy Spirit is here. Because they use manipulative music that does move the emotions. And so they, they feel like, okay, well God is here. And then they take that, the feelings they have in the music and then they apply it to the entire event. So then you, when you have people talking about the evil left, evil Democrats, you know, predators in the queer community, Islamists, like, yeah, right. They say all these things. Then people have now attached the anointing of God and the Holy Spirit to these right wing talking points. And that is why it's so hard to even stop Christian nationalism. Because a good chunk of the people that are at this event, they think they're just being good Christians because they have people like Chris Tomlin and Franklin Graham telling them that's what it means to be a good Christian. But let me tell you something, Chris Tomlin, you're a bad, bad Christian. It's who you are. It's who you are. Anyway. Couldn't help myself though. But yeah, it's super annoying.

[Tim Whitaker]

It's annoying. It's sneaky too. Like you said, it is sneaky and

[April Ajoy]

it's by design because your average person isn't going to look, dig deeper into is this a Christian nationalist event? And now they're running with the whole talking point too of like Christian nationalism is just a smear campaign by the left and it doesn't actually exist. And it's how they use to just talk about Christians. So they play the persecution card. But Christian nationalism absolutely does exist and it is a perversion of both Christianity and the Constitution.

[Tim Whitaker]

Hear, hear. Absolutely spot on. Absolutely. So yeah, that is the short breakdown of what happened on Sunday. What can you say? What can you say? This is. Mike Johnson gave a ten minute long prayer. I mean it was just, it was just a complete mess. It was a complete mess. And it is difficult, I think at the least to watch your faith tradition just spiral into this stuff and think that God is somehow sanctioning or ordaining or divinely appointing one of the most immoral men to ever exist and that somehow people like us are like evil because we want fully affirming rights for all of our neighbors, including our MAGA neighbors, by the way. Just very bizarre, Very bizarre.

[April Ajoy]

It is bizarre. And it's bizarre to be on this side, knowing that, like, we just want the most human rights for the most people, and we want queer people to be respected as human beings and fellow image bearers of God. And then these people would look at us and say, we're the evil ones. The gaslighting pisses me off. But anyway.

[Tim Whitaker]

For sure. For sure. Absolutely. That's for me, too.

[April Ajoy]

So you want to do some. Sorry.

[Tim Whitaker]

No, you're good. Go ahead.

[April Ajoy]

I was going to say super chats. Before we get to our final, why don't we.

[Tim Whitaker]

Let's do a quick ad break for tne. We'll come back, do some super chats, and we'll get into it right back.

[Bloomberg Announcer]

Hey, I'm Steven Fuchs, community director at the New Evangelicals. We're all trying to navigate some difficult realities, and at some point the question becomes, how do we deal with it? That's why we built TNE Connect. It's a free online space to help you move from conversation to meaningful action. At the center is our community hub, a place for honest conversations and shared ideas. And when you're ready to take that further, TNE action connects you with real ways to show up through advocacy, organizing, and supporting your neighbors. We also offer practical resources and starter packs to help you navigate real situations and share clear information. And we host live courses led by trusted voices, pastors and scholars so you can learn and go deeper. The best part is, everything we offer is completely free. So [e-mail] Connect or download the app by searching TNE Connect in the App App Store and take that next step. Hope to see you there.

[Tim Whitaker]

Fantastic. I love Stephen. He's so great. Okay, few super chats here again, friends, if you're watching the stream, please make sure to give this video a like. If you could just do it right now, just take two seconds, hit the like button. Will help us out so much. The more. By the way, the reason we ask is not because of our own egos. It's because the more likes the video gets, the more likely YouTube needs to recommend it to more people. Okay, so we're just trying to be pragmatic here. We're trying to ask you to help us push this video out so people can know about the dangers of Christian nationalism and hopefully be seen by this. Okay, super chat time. Where do we leave? Oh, we got a few more. Okay, I think we left off. Yeah, here. Here you go, April. Actually, I can read these. You read them last time. America needs. This is from Jared Taylor, 9121America needs a rededication to critical thinking. What you guys do is so important. Thank you for what you're doing. Deconstructed evangelical. Thank you so much. Sci fi Mombi. I know with getting my children away from organized religion in the Southern Baptist Church brought them into a sound mind. Thank you so much for the super chat. Tandyman 77 sword drill.

[April Ajoy]

Oh, no.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, no. Do you have a Bible?

[April Ajoy]

Do you have your Bible?

[Tim Whitaker]

Hold on, hold on. Yeah, I do. I do.

[April Ajoy]

Okay, okay, okay, I have my Bible.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay, count of three.

[April Ajoy]

Are you ready?

[Tim Whitaker]

One, mark, set, go.

[April Ajoy]

Wait, is this two Hezekiah. That's not a thing. No, is this a trick?

[Tim Whitaker]

Wait, yeah, there is no second Hezekiah,

[April Ajoy]

so I guess just go to Hezekiah.

[Tim Whitaker]

All right, fine. I don't know where that is.

[April Ajoy]

This is such a tiny book.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, where is it?

[April Ajoy]

Wait, hold on.

[Tim Whitaker]

Is there Hezekiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea. Wait, do we get trolled?

[April Ajoy]

I think we're getting trolled.

[Tim Whitaker]

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. No, we got trolled. We got trolled. That's not in here. Wow, Tandyman troll. That's so good live. I'm thinking Hezekiah sound very familiar.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah, it's not. Hey, guys, I'm singing myself.

[Tim Whitaker]

Me too.

[April Ajoy]

Hezekiah is not a thing.

[Tim Whitaker]

I'm looking. I'm looking at the contents.

[April Ajoy]

I went to Hagai. That's where my brain put like. That's 20 minute.

[Tim Whitaker]

You stinker, you. That super chat should have been much bigger for that level of embarrassment. Okay, next super chat's just gonna move on. Oh, my God.

[April Ajoy]

Literally. I saw the two and I was like, wait, that's not. That's not a book. And then I'm like, wait, is Hezekiah a book? It sounds like a book.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, my God, we got trolled. So good.

[April Ajoy]

Listen, I can sing the song. I feel like I have to sing the song to prove it. Hey, I think that counts as a win for me because I clocked it as a fake first.

[Tim Whitaker]

All right, fine. I mean, someone in the chat said the same thing, so. Oh, my God. Dandy.

[April Ajoy]

How embarrassing. I thought you were our friend.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah,

[April Ajoy]

I guess. Thanks for the super chat.

[Tim Whitaker]

I guess. Thanks. Dugan. Would love to see y' all collab with this fire podcast. They chronicle The Satanic Panic the 80s 90s series Fire by Night, which is almost like a shiny happy people prequel. Okay, cool. Good to know. Have not heard. Joseph Compton. Sorry, I can't get over what just happened. God raised up Trump to build a big beautiful ballroom. That's the speech you wrote, but taxes. Congratulations, you played yourself. Thank you so much. And the last one for today, I was at rededicate 250. Oh, wow. I have questions. I can't stress how Christian nationalists this event was. It almost felt like they were trolling us. Do you mean, do you mean like how we just got trolled by Tandyman? No, no, no. Okay, okay, one more came in. I, I, I can't trust this.

[April Ajoy]

Is this a real book?

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, but is there, is there 22 chapters?

[April Ajoy]

I don't know. I'm just gonna trust that there is. We'll see. Wait, did you start?

[Tim Whitaker]

No, sorry.

[April Ajoy]

Okay, hold on. All right, go.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay,

[April Ajoy]

37. I got it.

[Tim Whitaker]

Dang. Nope.

[April Ajoy]

And he said to him, you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.

[Tim Whitaker]

I'm throwing off my game, April. I can't trust the chat anymore. Okay, we've spent. You win. Congratulations. I just gotta say my, you know, speak. We grew up not trusting our own intuition. We finally build up trust with our chat. I know. And then Tandyman, who's been here for a long time, who gives us super chats all the time, does that. The betrayal. The betrayal. Trust. Oh, one more just came in. We have to read it. In pursuit of Miracles. Thank you, Tim and April. I learned so, so much from you. Keep going strong. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Okay.

[April Ajoy]

All right. That was a big one too. Thank you.

[Tim Whitaker]

It was a big one. Thank you guys. All super chats, just so you know, they go to making this show possible. They cover production costs and back end costs. They help T and E do their work. So thank you so much. It really means a lot to us to have that, to have those super chats. So Tannyman, I will refund you. I will venmo you somehow that $2. I see your chat there. Okay.

[April Ajoy]

Why did you need the.

[Tim Whitaker]

What?

[April Ajoy]

I missed that. Thank you.

[Tim Whitaker]

Can't see the chat. He says, give me my $2 back. Then I said, fine, I will. Tandyman trust has been broken forever.

[April Ajoy]

I feel like we did a good show. I feel like that was worth the $2 candyman.

[Tim Whitaker]

All right, shall we get to our last segment? Yes, we got a doozy far.

[April Ajoy]

Good Christian. Okay, let's just go right into it. I don't think we do any prep.

[Tim Whitaker]

Just hold on for anyone listening. With children. Maybe wait till the kids aren't around. It's not, you'll understand why. It's just, you know, this is A little more.

[April Ajoy]

You don't want to have to explain it.

[Tim Whitaker]

Great way of putting it, April. Okay, I have to get the video up, though. I didn't have it prepped. I have it now. All right, get ready, friends. Good luck.

[April Ajoy]

It is day three of not flicking the bean. I am the flick the bean warden, and this is my prisoner.

[Melinda Hale]

Please explain why you are imprisoned.

[April Ajoy]

Hi. I flipped the bean this morning, and guess what? It was not satisfying. God spoke to me in the middle of this and said, girl, it's not worth it. So here we are, being vulnerable and accountable to ourselves because we have the warden here, y'. All.

[Tim Whitaker]

No more flicking the bean, or else you will be under my captivity.

[April Ajoy]

Okay, we're getting ready for day four. Let's go. I mean, maybe I'm alone in this, but I feel like more people should flick the bean. I don't want to be so repressed, you know?

[Tim Whitaker]

I agree. It's just a very awkward video.

[April Ajoy]

It looks like they're in a hotel room, too. Here's my question. Like, how did the girl confess? Like, oh, I flicked the bean. I confess, and then got put in jail. Also, she wants to say it wasn't satisfying.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right?

[April Ajoy]

Did she not finish? She said God spoke to her in the middle of it. It's not worth it.

[Tim Whitaker]

There is something.

[April Ajoy]

Stop.

[Tim Whitaker]

I'm telling you, the evangelical God is incredibly, like, voyeuristic. According to these people. He's watching everything. Wasn't it Todd White who was like, he looks into the.

[Eric Metaxas]

The.

[Tim Whitaker]

The. Like, you know, he looks through the eyes of your soul. He's with you when you climax.

[April Ajoy]

Like, you know what? You know what?

[Tim Whitaker]

I did not.

[April Ajoy]

We're getting conflicting evangelical God messages here, because Todd White said that God waits for you to climax and then says, if you only knew me.

[Tim Whitaker]

That's right.

[April Ajoy]

This girl saying God spoke to her in the middle. What's going on, guys? Not worth it. So which one? Yeah, is he waiting or is he intervening in the middle?

[Tim Whitaker]

Hard to know. Oh, wait. Tandyman says Second, Hezekiah312 forbids flicking the bean. Oh, okay. Good to know. Good to know. Tandyman. Yeah, I. It's just so awkward.

[April Ajoy]

It is so awkward.

[Tim Whitaker]

I just don't want to hear that term again. I've heard it enough over the past couple days. But the bean, like, I mean, I can do what you. I'm all about, like, the pleasure. Please, by all means. It's just a very painful video.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah. You know what, though? I have to say, props to them, because I didn't even know you could flip the flick the bean. When I was in purity culture that was like, not even talked about. Like, girls were so repressed. I mean, my sex education was so minimal that I didn't even know about the button. And if anything, I thought that what you saw in movies and stuff was just. Was just a lie. Another lie of mainstream media.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, I mean, I, I never. I. I didn't know the button. It's like, what would that be? I don't understand.

[April Ajoy]

Right. You were only ever taught about intercourse. And so I just never did. Never even. I never knew that I could do that. So at least, at least they found it, you know, Good for them. They're ahead of me.

[Tim Whitaker]

Well, not only that. Bold choice to post that on the Internet. Like, bold decision, my guy.

[Leonard Stevenson]

Bold.

[Tim Whitaker]

I mean, you got. You do have some use of some guts. You got some stones going on there because you posted that. You recorded that video. You watched it back and thought to yourself, the Internet would benefit from this video.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah.

[Tim Whitaker]

Wow. That is.

[April Ajoy]

And that they're putting each other in jail. She's the warden.

[Tim Whitaker]

What are weird. So even Telecoson has like this weird accountability thing. Accountability is, is not how we use it these days. You know, holding people to a standard of not being narcissistic or abusive for them. You hear the word accountability? It means something to do with sex. My accountability partner is code for I have to confess them every time I quote, unquote, slip up. Could be watching something, could be flicking a bean or not, but either way, it's always around sex. Always. Because evangelicals are. Are the most sex obsessed people ever. They can't stop talking about it. They talk about sex and they talk about people's genitals, especially trans folks. More than anyone I know.

[April Ajoy]

I know.

[Tim Whitaker]

Honestly, April, I don't think about these things at all unless we're doing this kind of work.

[April Ajoy]

I know they bring it up all the time. They are sex obsessed because they're so repressed. I really do think it's just because they're repressed.

[Tim Whitaker]

On my days off, what I'm not thinking about is gay sex. I'm sorry, it's not popping into my head at all. I'm not thinking about genitals of my trans neighbors. Like, those thoughts do not enter into my vernacular or my mind at all until I start this work and watch Franklin Graham talk about gay sex.

[April Ajoy]

No, they're, they're, they genuine. They're the ones that are sex obsessed. It is not the secular world by any means. Like I thought about. Honestly, I thought about sex a lot more when I was an evangelical. Because you're like, don't do it, don't do it, don't do it, don't do it, don't do it. So you're like, don't do it, don't do it. And like by not doing it, you think about it all the time.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, it's like saying, don't think about a pink elephant. Of course you think about a pink elephant. You know, Anyway.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay. Well, that's that. That's a quite the note to end on for today.

[April Ajoy]

Get out there and flip that bean.

[Tim Whitaker]

I knew you were going there now. I mean, yes, but no. Oh, friends, thank you so much for being here. It really means the world. We go live every Thursday, 12 o' clock Eastern on substack with our friends at Linking Media Square and also on YouTube on our own space, the Tim April show at 12:00 Eastern. And we also release a pre record video on both YouTube and podcasts so you can get that wherever you get your content. We are a production of the New Evangelicals. If you're looking for a better path forward in your faith, check out TNE Connect. It's a free space. It's amazing. Tons of free resources, a great community to help you just find that better path forward away from Christian nationalism. And we will be back here next Thursday, God willing.

[April Ajoy]

And we'll have a new episode on Tuesday.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, yes, we'll have a new. Yeah, that's right. Okay, cool.

[April Ajoy]

Oh, Tandy said, what would Melinda Hale think of this? Don't tell her.

[Tim Whitaker]

Don't tell Melinda.

[April Ajoy]

I'm just kidding. She would probably laugh right along with her.

[Tim Whitaker]

She probably is. Like, she probably would think, oh my God, that's what she probably say. I can see her saying that. So, all right, friends. Well, on that note, I'm Tim Whitaker.

[April Ajoy]

I'm April Ajoy.

[Tim Whitaker]

We'll see you next week.

[April Ajoy]

Bye.