120. Turning Point Declares War on Feminism at Women's Summit

Summary

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The Tim & April Show, Episode 120

"Turning Point Declares War on Feminism at Women's Summit"

Host: The New Evangelicals (Tim Whitaker & April Ajoy)
Date: June 12, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this lively and critical episode, Tim Whitaker and April Ajoy dissect the 2026 Turning Point USA Women's Leadership Summit—a gathering of influential right-wing Christian leaders, influencers, and “trad wife” personalities. The hosts walk listeners through viral moments, highlight problematic theology, and unmask the manipulative propaganda tactics behind the event's war on feminism. Laced with humor and sharp insights, the show aims to empower listeners to spot Christian nationalism’s messaging and reinforce a faith rooted in love and justice, not oppression.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Banter & Basketball as Warm-up (00:27–06:18)

• Opening: Lighthearted discussion about the New York Knicks’ historic NBA comeback (Tim and April’s sports “flexes” and personal anecdotes).
  • Quote: “Some things do rise again, April. Like Jesus, people thought he was down and out, and he rose again and conquered defeat.” — Tim (04:29)
• Transitional Jokes: Metaphorically comparing sports miracles to faith and culture.

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2. Setting the Stage: Sword Drill Boundaries & Summit Intro (07:13–09:31)

• Show Logistics: Tim and April announce limits on the “sword drill” Bible challenge—one per show, winner picked at random.
• Summit Context: Introduction to Turning Point USA’s Women’s Leadership Summit as a propaganda-fueled event targeting young women, repackaging patriarchy as “empowerment.”
  • “You’re gonna watch in real time how the propaganda, really, of patriarchy gets converted in language for a largely white female audience to maintain patriarchal norms that sound liberating…” — Tim (09:05)

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3. Key Summit Moments & Critiques

A. Erica Kirk’s Tumultuous Kick-Off & Disruption (09:41–10:59)

• Event Disruption: Protester shouts “Erica Kirk protects pedophile” during her opening.

  • April’s Research: Alleges links to Romanian orphanage abuse scandals; Tim connects dots to broader MAGA protectionism.
  • Quote: “The MAGA party loves to protect children, child predators…There’s certainly connections to make.” — Tim (11:03)

• Erica’s Anti-Feminism Speech: Uses “freedom without responsibility” rhetoric, undermines feminism through vague, buzzword-filled language.

  • Hosts’ Reaction: “She says a lot without really saying anything.” — April (13:20)

B. Dana Loesch’s Weaponized Bible Verses (14:38–18:19)

• Context: Loesch passionately quotes verses to defend Erica Kirk, supposedly standing for “widows and orphans.”
  • Memorable Exchange:
    • “Pause. The stranger is the sojourner. It’s the immigrant.” — Tim (15:12)
    • “She quotes all these verses then ignores the fact this administration is kidnapping fathers from their children…That’s what we’re talking about when we say they use the Bible for power and control.” — Tim (18:19)
• Hosts’ Critique: Point out the hypocrisy of using scripture to support right-wing personalities but ignoring its call to justice for real widows, immigrants, and orphans.

C. Savannah Stone: Apple Logos & Anti-Feminist Mythmaking (19:43–27:11)

• Profile: 21-year-old “trad wife” influencer advocating women shouldn’t vote.
• Speech Highlights:
  • Genesis and Apple logo conspiracy—alleging tech and media work as “forbidden fruit” to seduce women from their “godly” roles.
    • Quote: “You notice how there’s literally an apple with a bite taken out of it on your phone. It’s not a coincidence. Eve represents us as women of the West.” — Savannah Stone (21:55)
  • Laments feminism’s “attack” on women’s happiness while upholding submission and patriarchal household structure.
    • “God is above everything. The man listens directly to God. The woman listens to her husband because he follows God. And the woman is stomping on the head of the serpent.” — Savannah Stone (24:12)
• Hosts’ Reactions: - “I don’t think Eve was like, ‘This is so good, Adam, you have to try.’” — Tim (21:09) - “If what she’s saying is true, there were a bunch of Satan worshippers at the founding of Apple…” — April (22:07)
  • Noting the inability for young influencers, fresh out of teen years and quick marriages, to give valid marriage advice.

D. Conference Recap & Women Against Their Voting Rights (29:09–34:13)

• CBC Recap: Features Savannah Stone and other attendees supporting “one household, one vote,” (anti-suffrage for women).
  • “I know she’s going to marry a biblical man, that they would also be in line.” — Attendee on her daughter not needing to vote (31:21)
• Hosts’ Analysis:
  • Tim: “This space is so effective in their propaganda. They’re convincing women to give up their right to vote in favor of policies that actually end up harming them.”
  • April: “Feminists care for their rights too…no one wants to keep her from living her trad-wife life, but they want to impose their worldview on everyone else.”

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4. Other Notable Summit Speakers

E. Ali Stuckey: The Gospel as a Culture War Weapon (36:41–38:52)

• Stuckey’s Message: Calls young women to “love people enough” to tell them “truth” about abortion and sexuality, equating these with the gospel itself.
  • “Do you love them enough to risk them liking you? Do you love them enough to lay it all out on the line in speaking the truth and love to them?” — Ali Stuckey (37:02)
• Hosts’ Critique:
  • April: “This is where a lot of family members get the idea they can be absolute jerks to people…and call it love.”

F. Isabel Brown: Have More Kids Than You Can Afford (40:30–43:14)

• “Be proud to proclaim you are…Charlie Kirk Conservatives…and have children—more than you think you can afford.” — Isabel Brown (40:30)
• Tim tears apart the privileged and dangerous messaging, highlighting the economic absurdity and anti-family policy hypocrisy.

G. The Cedra Family & Quiverfull Rhetoric (46:19–59:47)

• Millicent Cedra (Australia): Intertwines giving birth with spiritual warfare.
  • “Hell is afraid of that labor room because I am bringing forth a threat to his kingdom…Children are arrows in the hands of a warrior.” — Millicent Cedra (48:18)
  • Connects to the “quiverfull” movement, which the hosts argue is rooted in white Christian nationalism, and stresses unhealthy pressure placed on children.
• More Cedra Rhetoric:
  • Quotes Margaret Sanger out of context; equates feminism with “child sacrifice” and witchcraft.
    • “Why the sacrament of feminism is abortion. Why the sacrament of feminism is child sacrifice…” — Andrew Cedra’s wife (61:46)
  • Insists that children are only blessings if raised as future foot soldiers in Christian culture wars.

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5. Tim & April’s Running Meta-Commentary

• Continually call out misuses of scripture, the historical and social dangers of these doctrines, and connect propagandistic messaging to real-world policy outcomes (e.g., Project 2025, anti-divorce measures).
  • Quote: “All of this effort is going into keeping women in patriarchal marriages where their main job is to serve their husband…to birth children…and to be a good, quiet, submissive homemaker.” — Tim (52:06)
• Point out how “pro-family” rhetoric is a façade for real anti-family policies (e.g., no paid family leave, anti-healthcare, SNAP cuts).

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6. Memorable Moments & Running Jokes

Funniest Segment: Yahweh Energy Drink (65:44–74:26)

• Hosts react to an influencer promoting a $36/12-pack “Yahweh Energy Drink,” supposedly spreading the gospel by putting Bible verses on cans in gas stations.
  • “If you’re that concerned about saving souls, give it away.” — April (67:39)
  • “More than a drink, it’s a movement. Take Him anywhere!” — Tim reading ad copy (69:14)
  • Parody product brainstorming: Jesus-themed toilet paper (“He wipes away your sin”), “nail and hammer sets,” and “Testamints.”
  • Extended laughter riffing on evangelical marketing cliches and Donut Man’s “let Jesus fill the hole in your heart” song (73:08).

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Highlighted Quotes & Timestamps

• Patriarchy as Propaganda (09:05, Tim):
  “You’re gonna watch in real time how the propaganda, really, of patriarchy gets converted in language for a largely white female audience to maintain patriarchal norms that sound liberating…”
• Scripture Weaponization (15:59, Tim):
  “This is actually a very telling…perfect example of how they treat the Bible. They can literally read these verses, ignore the great harm that this administration is doing…”
• Apple Logo Conspiracy (21:55, Savannah Stone):
  “You notice how there’s literally an apple with a bite taken out of it on your phone. It’s not a coincidence.”
• Complicity and Policy Dangers (31:21):
  “I’d be okay if my daughter didn’t [vote], because I know she’s going to marry a biblical man…”
• Child as Weapon (48:18, Millicent Cedra):
  “Hell is afraid of that labor room, because I am bringing forth a threat to his kingdom.”
• Abortion as Feminist Sacrament (61:46, Cedra):
  “Why the sacrament of feminism is child sacrifice, witchcraft, spilling the blood of an innocent in order for you to have a better life.”

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Important Timestamps to Revisit

• Erica Kirk’s Disruption: 09:41–10:59
• Dana Loesch’s Bible Usage: 14:38–18:19
• Savannah Stone’s Anti-Feminist Manifesto: 19:43–27:11
• CBC Recap & “No Women’s Vote” Segment: 29:09–34:13
• Ali Stuckey Culture War Gospel: 36:41–38:52
• Isabel Brown’s “Have More Kids” Rant: 40:30–43:14
• Millicent Cedra & Quiverfull Ideology: 46:19–53:44, 53:51–59:47
• Abortion as “Child Sacrifice”: 61:46–63:44
• Yahweh Energy Drink Satire: 65:44–74:26

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Final Remarks & Takeaways

• The hosts spotlight the dangerous absurdities and manipulative rhetoric at the heart of Christian nationalist propaganda targeting women—especially the delegitimizing of feminism, weaponization of children and motherhood, and theological gaslighting.
• They reinforce that the real attack on families comes from anti-family policies, not feminism, and urge listeners to see through the false “pro-family” veneer.
• Throughout, humor provides catharsis and connection for disillusioned post-evangelicals and those seeking a faith rooted in wholeness rather than fear or control.

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For further episodes or community support, visit The New Evangelicals.

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Transcript

[A]

You're listening to a new evangelicals production, The Tim and April show, where we unravel faith, politics, and culture. Hello, everybody. Welcome to the Tim and April Show. I'm April Ajoy.

[B]

I am Tim Whitaker.

[A]

And we have quite the lineup for you today. We have so many clips.

[B]

It's kind of like one big weird Christian bleep that's like the whole show, honestly.

[A]

But we do have a special weird Christian bleep at the end that's not from this conference. Just to show that we have diversity.

[B]

Yes. Yes. No. We are an equal opportunity critic. Yeah. Welcome in, friends. If you're watching on YouTube, make sure to like and subscribe to the channel. Like this video. It helps us out so much. If you're watching on substack, subscribe. Hi, everyone. Give this stream a heart and restack it if you're into that kind of thing. Yeah, this will be a fun one. I think, though, we should start off with the obvious, April.

[A]

Yeah. And the obvious is that we all witnessed history.

[B]

Yeah, we witnessed a miracle. God's not dead. He's surely alive. Am I right?

[A]

Yeah. I mean, the Knicks, the New York Knicks came back from. From being down 29. Biggest comeback in NBA finals history.

[B]

That was a game that. So I, I. You're a big. You're a big basketball person. You played basketball. So I want to hear your thoughts. And also, you worked for the Mavs, right?

[A]

Yes. So I was actually just saying this is the most I've ever cared for an NBA Finals since the Dallas mavericks to in 2011 when they won it all. And honestly, it might be one of my biggest flexes that has no bearing on my life today, but it's just fun to tell people. But I worked for the Dallas Mavericks for one year as a glorified T shirt thrower.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

So I literally only worked home games. I got paid $50 a game, so it wasn't like a lot. I honestly, though, would have done it for free because I got to be at all the home playoff games and the home finals games, and at the end, they let all of us hold the trophy.

[B]

Oh, my gosh, that's me.

[A]

And I got to be in the Dallas Maverick parade.

[B]

Really?

[A]

I mean, it was seriously like the greatest summer for sports of my entire life.

[B]

Yeah, I believe it. I. So, okay, here's my flex. So, you know, April, I went to a really massive private school where I was top five out of six in my graduating class. And so of course I played basketball in this massive private school where I was always on. Because I was the tallest person in high school and in our tiny little league. So I did play basketball for a minute, and I actually do enjoy the game. Obviously, I'm a Sixers fan, but I will sell you. Last night, I'm watching the game, and I'm like, man, these Knicks. Like, I don't. This is. This is a. I mean, I was texting you. I was like, this game is. It's a blowout. There's no way. And after the third quarter, I'm like, you know, I'm getting kind of tired. Let me, like, maybe start getting. Getting. Getting ready for bed. I hop in bed, I turn the game on on my phone. I'm like, oh, my gosh, what is happening? And I caught the last, like, three minutes. I caught. What they're calling is the hand of God tip in. It was truly unbelievable. It was unbelievable, I gotta say.

[A]

And I listen, I know people will be like, you should have posted about it if you really felt this. And listen, I should have, but Beecher's my witness. When the knicks were down 25 plus points in the second quarter, Beecher was like, the game's over. This is a blowout. And I was like, beecher, it is only the second quarter. I am telling you, the Knicks are going to come back. And I was.

[B]

I don't believe it.

[A]

Like, oh, I wish Beecher will tell you. We literally had an argument about it. Be like, no, it's impossible. They literally Googled it. And they're like, no NBA team has ever come back from being down 25 in the NBA Finals game. And I'm like, listen, I was there for the Dallas Mavericks.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they played out of their minds. There was just something magical about that team in 2011. And I'm sensing that same magic of the New York Knicks during their playoff.

[B]

Well, I think that's why I was so shocked, because I'm with you. I mean, look, look, the Knicks swept the Sixers. Like, it was. It was a joke, okay? Like, they destroyed us. And so I did feel like. I'm like, the Knicks might go all the way along, along with the Hurricanes. For folks watching the Stanley cup, those are the two teams I've had. The Hurricanes had another great game last game, and then the Knicks. This time, I'm like, wait, what's going on? This whole first half was. It was painful. Nothing went down. No shots went down at all. But, you know, like, hey, you know, some things do rise again. April. Like, Jesus, people thought he was down and out, and he rose again. And conquered defeat.

[A]

You know? You know, like you, like Jesus, you

[B]

can live a life of victory.

[A]

Exactly. There's some youth pastor writing that sermon right now.

[B]

See a victory

[A]

also just for, like, petty reasons. I kind of hope the win the Knicks, just win. Win it in five, win the next one. And that the only game they lost was the one that Trump was at.

[B]

Did you see there's a viral video of someone before this last game? Saging.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Here's the thing, though, I have to say this. I am disappointed in some of the videos I've been seeing of Nick fans, Knicks fans, beating up people who are wearing spurs jerseys and, like, being really brutal. Disperse. Yeah, it's been bad. It's bad. I'm not saying it's every Knicks fan. Obviously the majority hate that. But there are some bad actors in that group who are literally like, like head stomping some of them. So that's a man for me that really mars what's going on. So hopefully people get their act together. But I am rooting for the Knicks. I think they're going to do it. I think it's game over. They have something behind them. Some kind of spiritual force, maybe the Holy Spirit, you know, maybe, like I said, maybe God really is alive and not dead. So.

[A]

Yeah. And listen, I am from Texas, so there's probably people like, why aren't you rooting for the Texas team? But as a Dallas Mavericks fan.

[B]

Yeah, you.

[A]

We've kind of always hated the Spurs. It's just.

[B]

It's like, it's like. It's like a rival team, right?

[A]

It is a rival team. Yeah.

[B]

Makes sense.

[C]

So.

[B]

Well, friends, don't forget all super chats do get read live. And man, how do we segue from

[A]

so miracles before we go into the crazy, these wild videos that we have for you, we are aware of what's happening in Iran. We're keeping eyes on it. Clearly there's no ceasefire. And there was a new kind of Epstein bomb that just dropped. Oh, that was probably a poor choice of words, but bombshell. I don't. I don't know. I can't think of another word for it right now. I know. I didn't mean to say that.

[B]

Scandal, like another level.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Yes.

[A]

The New York Times dropped this new, just kind of new information expose. Yes, there you go. That is damning. As all the other Epstein stuff is damning about Donald Trump. So we're keeping an eye on that. But for today, we're going into this Turning Point women's leadership summit. But before we do that. We want to establish some sword drill boundaries.

[B]

Oh, yes, thank you, April. We have. We were deliberating. Yeah.

[A]

We're like, what do we do?

[B]

What do we do?

[A]

So we have decided just for sake of time and fairness, to say up front, we are willing to do one sword drill per show, and we'll do it at the end. So if you submit it earlier, it'll be picked at the end and it'll be randomly picked. If we have more than one that comes in, our producer Cassidy, will pick the one that we do at the end of the show.

[B]

That's right. That's right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So cool. Sounds good. All right, so let's set this up. Like April said, guys, we are covering everything that's happening, all the big news. I'm sure there's going to be more developments, especially around the Epstein files for next week. This past week, Turning Point USA hosted. This is like maybe their fifth or sixth annual women's Summit. Now. We. We covered it last year, too, and that was where we had the viral picture of Erica Kirk wearing super flowery white, the outfit. And we want. We wanted to go through this because, I mean, there's so much to say. And we'll kind of. We'll kind of go through the clips and talk about it, but you're going to watch in real time how the propaganda, really, of patriarchy gets converted in. In language for a largely white female audience to maintain patriarchal norms that sound liberating and make it sound like things like feminism or bodily autonomy are inherently either evil or bad or. Or oppressive. And it's. It's gonna be really wild to watch because some of the. Some of the claims in these videos are you're gonna be like, wait, what? It's gonna be a doozy. It's gonna be. It's gonna be a doozy. So we just get into it.

[A]

Let's do it.

[B]

All right. All right. So the. The first clip we want to play is of Erica Kirk. She gave the opening speech, and it did not go well. Right from the beginning.

[A]

It did not.

[B]

Yeah. Here's what happened early on.

[E]

And it's important to remember that happiness comes and goes. It is so fleeting, but the joy of the Lord withstands all.

[D]

Erica Kirk protects pedophile. Erica Kirk protects pedophile.

[E]

It's important to remember that happiness comes and goes, and I pray that you find it.

[B]

There you go. So opening opening night word for her. Erica Kirk protects people. Pedophiles. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. And I did some digging because I was kind of wondering what they meant by that, because I've seen that rhetoric elsewhere, and from what I can tell, and this is all alleged, but Erica Kirk was involved in some, I think, like, orphanages in Romania that. Where. Where child trafficking was happening. And I don't know how to what degree she was involved or like, I've not fact checked this at all. That's what people are alleging, which we know from covering the stuff with Harvest Church, that there is a ton of child abuse that happened in these orphanages in.

[B]

Broadly speaking. Yeah.

[A]

In Romania. Yeah.

[B]

And also, I mean, she's a big fan of Trump, who we know is either protecting a pedophile like Jeffrey Epstein, or he himself is a man who has assaulted children. So you could take that statement a thousand different ways. I mean, we've covered this incessantly. But the MAGA party loves to protect children, child predators. I mean, Ken Paxton, Attorney General, Right. Who's now running for state Senate, let a pedophile off the hook. He received one day in jail, and the judge upped it to eventually 60 days. And he has. He does not have to register as a sex offender. That's Ken Paxton's AG doing that. So there's certainly connections to make. Okay, so that happens. Erica keeps on going, and I think, look, this clip of Erica, we'll just play it and. And we'll kind of give our thoughts. Because now she's trying to talk about feminism and the problem of feminism. Here you go. Just.

[A]

Yeah, it's kind of just for yourself.

[E]

The question that's actually facing modern women today isn't so much a rhetorical question of, is this all there is? Is this all there is to life? It's actually a deeper, more thoughtful question. It's a moral and a spiritual one. What life's vision will you pursue? Freedom without responsibility is reckless. It endangers the very fabric of our society. And alternatively, when both men and women in society faithfully carry their responsibilities with integrity and honor, that's how societies feel flourish and how great civilizations are sustained. Each wave of feminism. Wave of feminism and the judgment of culture. Analyzing women down to an ideology completely over complicates something so simple and beautiful as womanhood.

[B]

I don't know what she said.

[A]

I have no idea what she's saying.

[B]

I don't. I'm trying. I'm trying to get it. She's just like. Like, look, people have different skills. She's not a compelling speaker. She's not engaging, not very charismatic. I don't know what she's saying.

[A]

I feel like she just does. She does this often where she says a lot without really saying anything.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And she uses kind of buzzwords and. Yeah. I mean, later, you know, she talks about men and women supporting each other and, like, alludes to things that I would. If you're at a Turning Point event, you can infer what. What she's saying, but she's.

[B]

I just don't understand. I don't get it. So. So that was the energy level of the first speaker. But things. Things got better. Kind of. Things got crazier. This is Dana Loesch, right? April. Is that her name?

[A]

The radio. She used to work for the Blaze.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Now this one's wild because April and I, if you don't know if you're.

[A]

If you're.

[B]

If you're new to the show. We are Christians, okay? We grew up Christian nationalists. We rejected that ideology as we grew up, and now we're very much anti Christian nationalism. But we're very much pro Jesus and we care about the Bible. And a lot of times our critique of the maga movement is that they will say they're standing on biblical values, then ignore things about taking care of the orphan, the widow, the oppressed. Okay, this is Dana Lose talking about something to do with widows because of Erica Kirk. And here's how she applies the Bible. It's just so interesting to watch. Listen to this.

[F]

Allow me to step out very boldly right now. Exodus 22:22. You shall not afflict any widow or fatherless child. If you afflict them in any way and they cry out at all to me, I will surely hear their cry, and my wrath will be hot. Deuteronomy 27:18. Cursed is the one who perverts the justice. Do the stranger, the fatherless and the widow.

[B]

Pause. The stranger is the sojourner. It's the immigrant.

[A]

The immigrant.

[B]

It is so wild. And she. She. She's gonna keep going. He hearing her quote, verse after verse that talk about the fatherless and the orphan and the stranger, and ignore all the things that have to do with the fact that this administration is kidnapping fathers from their children, is putting children in concentration camps. Right. Is oppressing the immigrant. That's out the window. We're just going to utilize these verses in support of Erica Kirk. And I think this is. This is actually a very telling. It's like a perfect example of how they treat the Bible. How they treat the Bible. Let's keep going.

[F]

Psalm 117. Learn to do good, seek justice, rebuke the oppression, defend the fatherless. Plead for the widow.

[B]

I agree. I agree.

[F]

Jeremiah 22 3. Do no wrong and do no violence to a stranger. The fox, fatherless or the widow. Malachi, chapter three, verse five. I will come to you. I will come near you for judgment. I will be a swift witness against sorcerers and against those who exploit the wage earners and oppress the widow and

[B]

the fatherless who exploit the wage earners. Like, hello, I. This is what, this is what really baffles me. I don't know how you read these words. You say, you take them literally and then you ignore what they actually say, like you're reading it. I would agree. I agree with all these Bible verses. I agree with, which is why I'm not a maga. Christian

[A]

just the way too. She's like the strangers and the widow.

[B]

Just a few more. Just a few more. Oh, my goodness.

[F]

First Timothy, chapter 5, verse 3. Honor widows. James, chapter 1, verse 27. Pure and undefiled religion before God and the father. Is this to visit orphans and widows in their trouble?

[B]

Yes. Yes, that's right.

[F]

Our Lord God defines himself as a, quote, father to the fatherless and a defender of widows.

[B]

It's right in front of their faces. How about the widows who lost their partners or their husbands due to our government sniping boats in international waters with no due process? How about the children who have lost their parents in Gaza because of the bombs that we make? Or how about the girls that are dead in Iran that were attending school because of what we're doing? Like, again, this is why we say,

[A]

what about Renee Good's widow?

[B]

Thank you. Yes, yes.

[A]

Like, I, I mean, I'm, I agree with what she's saying, but the. It's weird how she's ignoring large groups in the verses that she's talking about and is clearly widow to defend Erica Kirk specifically.

[B]

Well, this is the reason why, why we picked these clips, especially that one, is because. Is because it really demonstrates when we tell people that they use the Bible and theology nationalists, that is for power and control. That's what we're talking about. They can literally read these verses, ignore the great harm that this administration is doing to the people that they claim the Bible's talking about. And they can, they can selectively apply it to one person, one person who is rich and has all the help that she could ever need. Right. She is being taken care of. No one's overlooking the widow. Erica Kirk is being taken care of. And somehow these verses apply to Erica, but not to the people that this administration is creating. The orphan, the widow, the fatherless. Wow. Like, what a bankrupt theology. What a bankrupt Christianity. It's.

[A]

You're muted again.

[B]

Why is it doing this?

[A]

I don't know, but you're back.

[B]

Yeah. Okay, I know what's going on, so I'll fix it. Okay, so next clip.

[A]

Mm.

[G]

Let's go back to the garden.

[B]

Oh, this one's good.

[A]

This is Savannah Stone. I actually don't really know much about her.

[B]

She's young, she's upcoming. She's like a new influencer, kind of. You know,

[A]

she's. Yeah, she's really young. I know. She's got quite a few.

[B]

500, 000 followers.

[A]

Interesting. Her Instagram's not showing up for me, so I wonder if I'm blocked. Yeah, she's. She's got a lot of followers. I don't really know her claim to fame. Maybe she just started making content.

[G]

I don't know.

[B]

Well, here we go. You're gonna hear it.

[A]

She's a trad wife influencer.

[B]

Yeah. This is a person who doesn't want the right to vote. She supports women not having the right to vote. Yeah, more on that later.

[G]

So let's go back to the garden, shall we? What happened before all of humanity was cursed? A woman, Eve, goes before God and her husband and is tempted by the serpent. What is she promised? That she would not die. Her eyes would be opened, and she would become like God, knowing good and evil. So she takes a bite of the forbidden fruit. She then goes to her husband and tells him how good the fruit is. You won't die, Adam. Just take a bite, Adam. Adam, succumbing to his wife and to Satan, takes a bite of the fruit, even though he knows God told him not to. Then all of humanity is cursed. So how does this play out today?

[B]

Really quick? That's a really bad reading of Genesis 3, and the text says that Adam and Eve were together. So I don't think that Eve was like, this is so good, Adam. You have to try. He's obviously watching it happen in real time. Anyway, just want to point that out.

[G]

Satan still rules over the earth, and he uses tools like the media to specifically target us as women through emotional propaganda. Oh, that's not actually a baby. It's just a clump of cells. It's okay. You can just get rid of it. You can't afford to have a baby right now. Your happiness is the most important. The forbidden fruit is the media. You notice how there's literally an apple with a bite taken out of it on Your phone. It's not a coincidence. Eve represents us as women of the West.

[A]

It's not a coincidence.

[B]

It's not a coincidence that the apple in the apple logo and the, the unnamed fruit in Genesis 3. The myth of Genesis 3. Direct correlation.

[A]

Guys, what I don't understand is if, if, if what she's saying is true, there were a bunch of Satan worshippers that were at the founding of Apple and decided, hey, let's put this symbol to represent Eve taking a bite out of the apple so that people will know what we're doing.

[B]

Only the smartest people. So our products can deceive women to have as many abortions as possible to kill their children.

[A]

So stupid.

[B]

Also, the serpent. This is is not Satan. The text does not say that the serpent is Satan. Again, this is just. This is Evangelical Theology 101. It is not solid theology. And then the application apple.

[A]

Also the Bible doesn't say it was an apple.

[B]

That's what I'm saying. It's unnamed fruit. It's just a fruit. And no, I'm sorry, I gotta say the quiet part out loud. These stories are not literal. They did not really happen. They are created stories to promote meta narratives of how the earth came to be and the human condition. Every tradition has them. The fact that we even played this game with these people trying to argue about Genesis 1, 2 and 3. Genesis 1 and 2 are different creation stories. Genesis 3 has nothing to do with this narrative that this person is putting forward. And then she links it to 2000 years later to a modern tech company named Apple to prove to her audience that the media is lying to them about abortion.

[A]

I don't know. I have an Android, so I am not.

[B]

That's why. Right? That's why you knew better. You saw right through apples.

[A]

I was like, I know what that means.

[B]

Let's keep going.

[G]

Look at the fruit, the media, and just cannot resist it. And Adam represents the weak Western man who says, happy wife, happy life, and does whatever she says instead of what God says. We have completely reversed God's design. Instead, what society should look like is this.

[B]

Tell us.

[G]

God is above everything. The man listens directly to God. The woman listens to her husband because he follows God. And the woman is stomping on the head of the serpent.

[B]

They start clapping after that. So I guess women can't have a relationship with God. I guess they're just. They're so feeble minded that the man has to. April, help me. How does this work?

[A]

I don't know. I just, I'M really weirded out that she said women weren't above children and said that women are stomping on the head of the serpent. Which honestly sounds pretty badass.

[B]

No, that part is. Yeah, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

[A]

But like, women are the ones doing the fighting, you're doing the work, while men. Yeah, it doesn't make. None of this makes any sense.

[B]

Why are we spending so much time even trying to understand what is obviously unintelligible? I mean, this is unintelligible on so many levels. It's. Okay, so we're not done with her though.

[G]

This is the ultimate representation of Christ's love for his church. That's why they hate it so much. You've been told that there are no good men left, April.

[B]

They are the liberals. And as a liberal man, that's why I'm not married and have not been for 10 years with two children. Because I hate marriage so much.

[A]

The way that they make it seem like all leftists hate children, hate marriage, hate families. Like we don't. Well, like we aren't out here with families of ourselves, a whole marriage certificate and children.

[B]

I think the more nebulous they keep the terms, the more their audience can draw their own conclusions and insert they with whatever it is that they have in their head. They is aoc. They is the Democrats, whoever they are. Right. Like, it's just that. It's just that kind of thing. Who hates marriage?

[A]

She's 21. She was born in 2005.

[B]

Stop. After 9 11.

[A]

Yeah. She was not alive during 9 11.

[B]

That's scary.

[A]

I don't know. I feel like you shouldn't be giving marriage advice if you weren't alive during 9 11.

[B]

Wait, is she married?

[D]

I don't know.

[A]

Sorry.

[B]

Wait, hold on. Is this 21 year old married? If so, for how long? I have questions. I'll keep playing.

[A]

Her husband's name is Noah. When did they get married?

[B]

Fitting.

[A]

Hold on. When did she get married? She had to have been so young.

[B]

I'll keep playing while you, a 19

[G]

year old, make you miserable that it ruins your success, that you'll live a longer and happier life single. And that is all on purpose. Because they know that when godly men and women create a lifelong covenant under God, then society would be unbreakable.

[A]

They got married when she was 18.

[B]

Oh my.

[A]

She met him when she was 17. And they got married a year later when she was 18. I don't know how old her husband is.

[B]

She is a future deconstructed Christian. It's only A matter of time.

[A]

He was 20 and she was 17 when they met. So he's three years older than her. Listen, your brain doesn't fully develop until you're 25.

[B]

This girl out here married for three years talking about marriage.

[A]

It reminds me, I don't know if you ever saw like we would get these, like someone would get married at like age 20 and then they'd come back to youth group and like the girls night and give their testimony of how they had to wait through their long season of singleness. And it was for one year when they were 19.

[B]

So can I confess something to you? When me and Sarah got married, we got invited to do that at like a young adults couples retreat. And we did. I think we were like a year in now. Luckily we survived.

[A]

You know what? Beecher and I did that too.

[B]

I knew it.

[A]

I forgot. They literally invited us to a youth group and I was pregnant and we gave a whole talk on marriage and oh, gosh, cringe. I forgot about that until this moment.

[B]

Friends, if you're watching this stream, please give this video a. Like, we have 300 folks on YouTube and 77 likes. We can do better than that. Help out April and I because we're suffering over here, listening to a 21 year old talk about marriage. And if you're listening on Substack, thank you so much. Make sure to give this stream a heart, all the good stuff. Yeah, Our audience is very smart. We don't need to break this point down. We all know it's absolute hogwash. It's just again, this person's speaking to thousands of young girls, telling them these things and they're believing it.

[A]

I can't tell you. I didn't get married until I was 26 and I thought I was a crone.

[B]

Same.

[A]

Like I felt so old in like evangelical world. I was like, I'm never going to get married. I'm going to die alone. I got married at 26. I believe that which is old in that world.

[B]

Okay, so there's a recap video that we want to show you that I think will be a good kind of break to kind of see how on like a big picture this event was covered.

[A]

There's a lot of CBC news. I think there's a lot of doozy. What does the watermark say? It'll say where cb.

[B]

Yeah, CBC News.

[A]

This is CBC News.

[B]

This is a pretty.

[A]

They're interviewing people that were at the event, including Savannah Stone. We just, yeah, watched the people that

[G]

voted for Trump were just very fed up with what's, what's happened so far in this administration, I think there's some

[A]

things that he has promised that has

[H]

not been done yet.

[B]

But I still think he's doing the

[G]

best that he can.

[I]

This is the Women's Leadership Summit at Turning Point usa. It is the conservative Christian political advocacy group founded by Charlie Kirk and now run by his widow, Erica Kirk. President Donald Trump has credited this group with helping him get reelected by bringing more young people into the conservative movement. But in this midterm election year, there are signs the movement may splinter.

[G]

Both my husband and I are really disappointed. He made it seem like everything was going to become more affordable. The economy's worse.

[I]

Mainstage headliner Savannah Stone has turned on Trump. She's a rising star among Christian conservative content creators. She embraces controversial fringe views and has said she doesn't think women should vote.

[A]

I believe that it should be a

[G]

one household voting system.

[B]

Now, really quick she said fringe in Christian nationalism. This is not a fringe view in Christian nationalism. This is a pretty common view and a growing view among in particular conservative women. And Savannah is a great test case for this. I just want to make that caveat

[G]

that a hill I'm going to die on and run for office and try to complete.

[A]

No.

[I]

Her argument is that when women vote, the outcome tends to be more liberal and she wants a conservative, conservative America. A hypothetical trade off some women here are open to.

[A]

As a Christian woman who has a

[J]

very healthy connection with my husband, I

[A]

vote the same way he does.

[B]

So honestly, I would be okay with

[A]

giving up my right to vote because

[C]

I know that he would represent me

[F]

well if he was voting on behalf of our household. I would be fine with that.

[A]

Do you think your daughter should have

[K]

the right to vote?

[F]

I'd be okay if she didn't because I also know she's going to marry a biblical man, that they would also be in line.

[A]

I would as well give up my vote if it got rid of like, things like abortion. I feel like with my, my mindset I would want to put my vote in, but the majority of women are liberal and I think getting rid of that would actually help women more.

[I]

Mo.

[B]

Pause. We got to talk about this. This level of brainwashing that is happening, this space is so effective in their propaganda. They're convincing women to, to give up their right to vote in favor of policies that actually end up harming them. For example, Project 2025, they wanna repeal no fault divorce. That means that if one of these women marries one of these biblical Men. And that man is abusive and vindictive and narcissistic. This person has no way out. She can't divorce him legally. That's what it means.

[A]

And I don't understand it, too, because. Well, it's a power thing. They. They are convinced that the. That feminists are trying to make them work. You know, that. That there's this attack on marriage, which is not true. So it's based in misinformation. But they. They believe that women do vote more liberal, which they do.

[B]

I wonder why.

[A]

Because of human rights.

[B]

I wonder why.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Wait, wait, wait, April. You're saying that women are turned off by a man who says, grab them by the. You know what? Or who says, hey, I would date my daughter if she wasn't my daughter. Women. Women largely are turned off by that. I don't. That. That sounds like feminism to me. Sounds like liberal indoctrination to me. April. Oh, my gosh. Just a few more seconds of this recap. Because not everyone agrees with this take. I think. I think that's important to point out.

[A]

Like, what I. What. What they don't understand is that feminists care for their rights to. If she wants to have a household vote and only have one vote for her household, she can do that.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

And no one wants to keep her from living her trad. Wife.

[B]

No one is keeping her.

[A]

But they want to impose their worldview on everybody else. Even though.

[B]

Isn't that how it always is, though? Right? It's Pride Month, Right? No. No one's asking people who are straight to give up their marriages. No one's asking Ali Stuckey to divorce her husband and marry a woman. Right. Queer people are asking for the ability and the right to be able to live their life in peace away from the tyranny of. Of Christian nationalism. But that's not good enough for Christian nationalists. They need to take over societally and politically. And that includes this. That includes this. Okay, let's keep going.

[I]

Most of the women we spoke with here do not want to lose their right to vote.

[A]

I think women should be voting. I don't want to give up my right to vote ever.

[I]

And most told us they plan to exercise their right in the midterm elections. Your plan is to vote Republicans?

[A]

Yes.

[G]

Yes.

[I]

The conference drew protests. Dozens of people gathered outside. Some even dressed up as characters from the Handmaid's Tale.

[B]

I have a problem with them trying

[F]

to persuade people that their goal in life as a woman is to keep house and raise babies.

[I]

And inside, a protester disrupted Erica Kirk's speech, screaming accusations at her during her opening remarks.

[B]

Erica Kirk protects.

[D]

Wow.

[I]

All of it a display of deeply polarized politics continuing to harden as the midterm elections approach.

[L]

Fast.

[B]

Good reporting. Good reporting.

[A]

Yeah, that was good.

[M]

Hey, everyone, this is Melinda Hale, the executive director of the New Evangelicals. Listen. Every day we hear from people who feel isolated and disillusioned and hurt by a version of Christianity that has been hijacked by politics and nationalism. And yet they still long for a faith that is rooted in love, justice and compassion. And that's why the New Evangelicals exist, because we believe there is a better path forward. We're creating resources, hosting conversations, and we're building communities for people who want to reclaim Christianity and stay rooted in the teachings of Jesus. But building a movement like this takes time, it takes energy, and it takes financial support. So if this podcast or our YouTube, our educational offerings or community space or anything that we've created has impacted you, would you consider becoming a donor? Even a gift of $5 makes a huge difference for small organizations like this. Your support helps us to continue empowering people to put their faith into action by rejecting Christian nationalism and to live in a way that shows people how to truly love our neighbors. Together, I know that we could build something beautiful. So visit theneweevangelicals.com support to give today. You can find the link right in our show notes. Thank you for standing with us.

[B]

Okay, you guys hanging in there? You hanging in there? Because we had a few more clips to play. Do you? Okay, April, how are we doing on time for you? Are we okay right now?

[A]

We're doing all right. We're moving through it.

[B]

Why don't we get to Ali's? Stucky? Yeah, let's get to Alex Duckey because of course this would not be a turning point USA Women's Summit without Alice Stuckey, who's now pregnant, by the way. Now bringing in, now pregnant with her fourth child. Her fourth child. Here's what she had to say to again, these are mostly, I would say college to high school aged women are in this crowd. That's who she's talking to.

[L]

The question that I want to ask you because all of us in this room, you've got one person that needs to hear the truth of the gospel. Gospel that needs to hear maybe the truth about abortion, life inside the womb. Maybe they need to hear the truth about sex, sexuality and identity. All of these things that aren't just culture war issues for the Christian, they're biblical issues.

[A]

These are soul level Issues.

[L]

And so here's the question that I would ask you if so far you've been silent and you've been scared to speak up to that person. Do you love them enough? Do you love them enough to share the truth with them? Do you love that person enough to withstand the awkwardness, to take the blow of offense when they call you names? Do you love them enough to risk them liking you? Do you love them enough to lay it all out on the line in speaking the truth and love to them?

[A]

This is where a lot of family members and friends get the idea that they can be absolute jerks to people that disagree with them and they call it love.

[B]

Yep. And notice how Ali tied the gospel to culture war issues. Two of them. Abortion and sexuality. Remember we heard from Dana Loach earlier, quoting the Bible about not oppressing the orphan, the widow, the stranger, And Ali ignores all of those and talks about two things that are pretty much nowhere in the Bible. There is no modern notion of human sexuality. There's no modern notion of gay marriage. There's no notion of what abortion is or isn't. Those things are false, foreign to the Bible, like, almost completely.

[A]

She listed those immediately after saying sharing the truth of the gospel and then

[B]

said that they are soul issues. So there's. So her audience will infer these are salvific issues. Being on the wrong side of this means I'm not a real Christian. And then she.

[A]

Christian nationalism, by the way.

[B]

Exactly. And then she proceeds to tell people that. Are you willing to speak the truth even if. Even if you get push back or people don't like you? Which I got to ask Allie if the point of the gospel in her mind is to save souls from hell. And the way you tell people the gospel is it turns them off to what you're telling them. What are you doing? Is it really about the gospel? Is it really about saving souls from hell? Or is it about dominating others with your ideology and forcing them either through legal means or through societal pressure to. To convert to your way of seeing the world? Right? Like, what's the point? What's the point? I don't understand. If you're. If you're sharing the gospel and people hate you for it, then you're not really. You're not really being effective, are you?

[A]

No, you're not God. All right, next. Isabelle Brown. Who is she? Is she just an influencer, too? You're muted.

[B]

I'm muted now. I'm used.

[A]

No, you're back.

[B]

Okay, thank you for the accountability.

[A]

Isabel Brown. She is an influencer, right wing political activist, media personality, political commentator and author.

[B]

Yes, I covered her on my Tim Whitaker Speaks channel a couple of months ago because she did a segment on CNN's documentary on Christian nationalism and she completely misrepresented it and said that the media is persecuting Christians. And I'll play this clip, you'll hear what she has to say, and then we'll respond to it because shocker alert. It's crazy.

[J]

Be proud to proclaim that you are and everyone in our generation should be unabashedly, Charlie Kirk, Conservatives and I reiterate, have the courage to fall in love, to get married and to have children. More children than you think you're ready for, and far more than you think you can afford. It's not enough for the right and those courageously telling us what's right to take back culture for our generation of men. If we're serious about saving the west and defeating the forces of evil once and for all, it's going to take us women to boldly say we are done with the lies of the left.

[B]

Pause the the worst possible As a parent of two children, the worst possible advice you could ever get is being told to have more kids than you can afford and that you're ready for what?

[A]

A privileged take? In this economy, so many people are living paycheck to paycheck, can barely afford the children that they do have, can't afford healthcare.

[B]

Like, it's also not fair to the child. If you have more children than you're ready for, how are you going to be emotionally available to raise that child? This is the great riddle that, that, that these folks can never answer. In this economy, where usually both parents have to work to keep a roof over their head, medical debt is higher than ever. Credit card debt's higher than ever. Things are more unaffordable than ever. Gas is higher because this president is bombing Iran. They cut Affordable Care subsidies. Four people, millions of people. They cut SNAP benefits. They're going after Social Security next. And you want us to have more kids than we can afford. And then what? Then they're going to call you lazy because you're not working hard enough to provide for your kids. And then you're telling me that you want mom and dad to work outside the home to make the ends meet, which means that they're not home with their kids. They're not being present parents. This doesn't make any sense.

[A]

No, it doesn't. That is like I, I can kind of understand the just from a propaganda perspective like angle them portraying like the attack on the family. Because I come from that world so, like I understand how they land there, even though it's nonsensical. I don't understand being pro family and then telling families to have more kids than they can afford because all that's going to do is harm those families and harm the children that are already there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If you can't afford to put food on the table or you can't afford to buy them clothes, you can't afford to put them into activities that it's already so expensive to live.

[B]

The whole pro family branding is a brand that started in the moral majority. It is simply a veneer. Right. That people use to get these people voted into power who actually advocate for anti family policies. Not giving people affordable health care is not pro family. It's anti family. Not providing paid maternal, you know, or paid family leave, which every other country that we compete with has is anti family. Not taxing the billionaires and making them pay their workers a livable wage is not pro family. These aren't pro family people. These are anti family, pro capitalist people. That's what it comes down to ultimately. You know, it's wild to hear a talk like this when you're right. It's such a privileged take. It's easy when you have a lot of money and you can afford a nanny, you can afford a babysitter. Both parents don't have to work. One can be home. Your healthcare is taken care of. You're not budgeting if you can pay the groceries this month or the electric bill like the majority of us are trying to figure out half the time. Right. It's a ridiculous take. Do you want to read some super chats? We have a lot. Do you want to do that?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, we can do that.

[B]

Okay, here we go.

[A]

And then we got the doozies coming up.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. We saved the best for last 16. Alana C. Thanks for the super chat. Teacher here on her first day of summer. What a great way to start my summer. Catching alive to thank you both for continuing your work, calling out the insanity of Christian nationalism. Thank you so much.

[A]

That means thank you.

[B]

Happy Summer, Stevie Clown 2000. But what if I asked for a lightsaber drill? That's not gonna happen, but thank you, Jared the weird worker. So is Erica Kirk really this ignorant about what feminism is or is she just outright lying? My honest answer is a combination of both. I think it's a combination of both.

[A]

And thank you for that super chat.

[B]

Thank you. Yes, of course.

[A]

Good chunk.

[B]

Groovy. Tim. Catholic bishops here in Orlando. 6, 10, 12, 250. Works of mercy, especially for the immigrants. Awesome. Thank you so much for the super chat. Got a few more.

[A]

I think someone said it's Jared the weird worker's birthday today.

[B]

What?

[A]

Happy birthday.

[B]

Jared's in our chat all the time. This, this is a regular of the show. So thank you, Jared, and happy birthday to you.

[A]

Happy birthday.

[B]

Yes, yes, we do. Okay, couple more here and then we'll get back to some of these clips. Shanna Lee. 80. If you have two conservative adults in the household, that's two votes instead of just one. Basic math. That is so funny. That's about like the household voting. Yeah. Like why cut your vote in half if you're both conservative? Right?

[A]

Yeah. Seems odd because they're cutting other people's

[B]

votes and that's exactly right. Coy. I think that's it. Kohei. 246. Thank you for the super chat. And we have one more here. Justine Bailey, 9:23. Lost track of time and almost missed alive. Our country can be better and it's why we need to keep fighting for it. Absolutely. Agreed, Agreed, agreed, agreed, agreed, agreed. Agreed. Ok. Ok. All right guys, that was the appetizer, as Michael Scott put it. Here's the, here's the doozies.

[A]

All right, we got see this one up.

[B]

April.

[A]

So this is Millicent Cedra. She's married to one of the Cedra brothers. I don't know which one, but she's a pastor at a, at Echo Church in Australia, which is odd because they're in Australia, but they go viral here often and are very involved in. I feel like they talk a lot about American politics and they push white Christian nationalism from Australia even though her husband is not white. It's just they're, they are very odd. Every time I see a clip of this, of Millicent in particular, she's always yelling and preaching.

[B]

They all yell. Andrew, I think, I think Andrew's her brother in law. He yells too. I've actually talked to him at America Fest and I mean this sincerely. He is insufferable. You think I'm adhd? Imagine not being medicated for ADHD and just talk a thousand words a minute and not having any capacity to process. That's what it was like talking to him. I was shocked.

[A]

So they're all from Australia. I think her, her husband is one of the pastors at Echo Church, but her brother in law, Andrew is the lead pastor. And we're going to hear from his wife in a second. So she's very pregnant in this clip. I don't know how far along she is, but she.

[B]

In eight weeks from. From time of this.

[A]

So she. She flew to the States to speak at this women's conference.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And yeah, I do think so. The churches on Australia, they say on their website that they are coming soon to Florida. Of course they are at some point. So I don't know.

[B]

I think it's also worth pointing out it's a little odd that Turning Point wants to hear from immigrants. I don't really understand. I mean, these are not American citizens. They are not Americans. They are. They are foreigners, but yet here they are. So it's almost like it's not really about immigration. It's about keeping white people in and brown skinned people out. But hey, that's just me. Okay, here we go. Brace yourself. This is how she talks.

[D]

It's intense for having our baby boy in just eight weeks, which is kind of terrifying. And, you know, at the beginning of the pregnancy, I was scared. I was terrified. Man, this is going to be horrific. You hear all these crazy birth stories. I was scared. But then I had an epiphany a couple of months ago. I was like, wait a second. I should not be the one that's afraid of the labor room. You know, who's afraid of that labor room? Hell is afraid of that labor room because I am bringing forth a threat to his kingdom. I am about to bring forth an arrow that is going to take down the plans of the enemy. So I'm not scared anymore of that labor room because I understand now it is spiritual warfare. I feel like I'm about to go to war against the kingdom of hell. And hell is trembling because this baby boy is about to come and stop some of the plans of the enemy. Children of arrows in the hands of a warrior. See, hell trembles when Christian women have babies and raise them up in the ways of the Lord. And this is why we reject the notion of I'm just a mother. You're just a mother. No, no. According to the scripture, if I raise up children in the ways of the Lord, I'm not just a mother. I am a warrior here to advance the kingdom of heaven and to fight against the kingdom of hell.

[B]

So I want to get some context to this. She's speaking theology from what's known as the quiverful movement. It's. There's a verse, I think it's in Proverbs that essentially says, blessed are is the one with many children. They are like, they're, they're like arrows in the quiver of the warrior. And so that, that's what she's drawing from here. And this movement is steeped in white nationalism. It comes from really like KKK ideology of our white babies are going to be used to protect the homeland. That's kind of like the, the, the, the, like the. What's the word? It's like, it's not the obvious. It's like underneath, it's like the, the subtle pieces of it. I'm breaking out the right phrase. But anyway, I, I made a joke.

[F]

I.

[A]

Because I made a video about this that like, wow, what an ambitious birth plan. Like, I thought mine was ambitious. Going unmed

[B]

arrows.

[A]

Defeat hell.

[B]

Yeah, that's intense.

[A]

Also, talk about the pressure. You know, like some kids you have pressure, like, then my kid's gonna be a doctor. Like, no, her kid is going to storm the gates of hell.

[B]

I mean, that's a lot of pressure on a child early on. And at what age do you start grooming them for this, you know, because I know that they don't like grooming. So. But yeah, I mean that, that's the ideology this is part of. RJ Rush Dooney is kind of the, the one of the main people behind this idea of theonomy, which is about Christian nationalism taking over the country. And the Quiverful movement is kind of a subsection of that. So that's what she's riffing off of here. It's actually not new. It's quite old in American history. And it's pretty wild to watch. Pretty wild to watch. So also it really devalues children. All my child is, is an arrow that I'm going to use to destroy the imaginary understanding I have of hell. And what does that even mean? Like, what does that mean for that child? Is that child an image bearer made in the image of God, or is it just an arrow for you to use?

[A]

My friend Abby called me after seeing that clip and just said it made a joke that it reminded her of Sarah Connor and Terminator 2 and like all the voiceover of like birthing the baby that will fight the robots. Yeah, what it sounds like, it's just like so like the way she's talking about her child, like talk about like the self importance that this woman feels about her child. But that's also par for the course of white evangelicalism. I mean, I thought I was going to tear down the gates of hell myself because I was told that my entire life. So I mean, it does make you feel important.

[B]

This is, this is the indoctrination, by the way. Right. They have to convince young girls that their greatest calling in life is to be a wife and a mother. So they spend a lot of money, organizations like this, to convince them that they're birthing children to storm the gates of hell, that feminism is a lie that wants you away from your family, when really feminism wants to give you a choice to live how you want to live. Like how men do. Right. So it's all of this effort is going into keeping women in patriarchal marriages where their main job is to serve their husband, as we heard earlier, to birth children. Right. And to be a good, quiet, submissive homemaker. That's their only main goal in life, is to be that person.

[A]

Also, I like at the beginning, she says, you know, I was scared of the labor room, but I'm not the one that needs to be scared. Hell needs to be scared. I. I think it's a very normal feeling to be scared of giving birth because it is a very. Can be tr. It's traumatizing on your body. Things can go wrong. Like those are. That's a very normal. Especially if you're giving birth in America within our healthcare system.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Thankfully, she gets to do it in Australia, which I'm assuming has a better healthcare system than we do, but I honestly don't know.

[B]

Friends, if you are joining the live stream now, thank you so much for being here. It means the world. Please give this video a like. We've almost 400 people watching and 150 likes. I think we can do better. Hook us up. It's free. Cost you nothing.

[A]

It takes you a second.

[B]

Takes you a second. If you're watching on Substack. Friends, thank you so much. We are Tim and April. We go live every Thursday at 12 o' clock with our friends over at Lincoln Square Media. You can give this stream a heart. Hopefully you're. This is helpful for you understanding Christian nationalism, kind of what's going on, how the, how the ideology works and what it looks like in real time. You want me to play this video too, right? Of Millicent.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

About abortion.

[A]

Okay. Yeah. We've got two more, three more videos. We can do it.

[B]

We can do it.

[D]

Our culture is trying to attack motherhood. Motherhood is greatly under attack. Women are celebrated for murdering their own babies because they're an inconvenience to them. Motherhood is greatly under attack. We have an epidemic right now of young women who do not want to have babies, who do not Want to have children. Even Margaret Sanger, the founder of abortion and sorry, of Planned Parenthood, Margaret Sanger said the greatest thing that the large family can do to one of its infant members is to kill it.

[B]

Okay. I had to pause and fact check this, which I did. I was like, whoa. Did she really say that? She did. In the context of being hyperbolic, of talking about how large families and in the industrialized world, children were suffering because they couldn't get access to livable wages, health care. So she makes the hyperbolic point of like, look, if you have a large family, the more merciful thing to do is not to have the child because of the pain and suffering these large families give to children because our systems cannot support what they're being told they should be able to support. So it's kind of like. It's almost like what we said earlier, April, about when Isabella was talking. Talking about have more kids than you can afford. We're like, no, that's. That is so not a good idea for the family or for the child. Margaret Sanger is making that point in one of her books and she uses that line, which of course is very, you know, like, whoa. But it's, it's in the context of this stuff creates more pain and suffering. But of course, Mil is her name Millicent? Is that her name? Yeah. She would never say that. Right. She's never going to give you the context of what's going on here, so just want to point that out.

[A]

Also, motherhood is not under attack. You are fully allowed to be a mother. And in fact, I would say the only thing that actually is an attack on motherhood is all of these really anti family policies that Republicans are passing.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

With health care, the cut to SNAP benefits and the big beautiful bill, the cut to wic. Like, there are so many programs that Republicans fight against that are cutting, that are actually harming families. That is what is an actual attack on motherhood.

[B]

That's why I agree with her. There is an attack on motherhood only. It's what Mag is doing. Right. On every level. On every level. You're exactly right. So yeah, I agree. But it's not from the left. It's from the world that still won't fix the healthcare crisis in this country while gutting subsidies for healthcare. Come on, make it make sense.

[A]

All right, Contin.

[D]

We have the concept in our culture where having children is a burden, that children are a burden. They're gonna stop us, they're gonna hinder us, they're gonna hold us Back.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay. I want to play this other video. That's an older video from, I don't know, in the past year or two. It's like, recent, but it was from her speaking at church where she goes more into detail about arrows. And notice how she's just then complaining about the world viewing children as burdens. And then just remember that as you

[B]

watch this clip, it's loud again.

[D]

Children are a hindrance. Children are inconvenience. They stop what we are called to do, that they pull us back. The Bible says that they're a blessing. Children are like arrows in the hands of a warrior. And blessed is the one who has a full bag of arrows. If your children that are like arrows are in the hands of someone that is not a warrior, that doesn't care about building the kingdom, that is just living for their own comfort and convenience, then they're not a blessing. Then it's hard. But in the.

[B]

Oh, oh, oh. Is there a caveat here?

[A]

There's no ca. I mean, keep playing. But no, that's what I'm saying.

[B]

No, I'm saying, like, there's a caveat to children being a burden. If you're not a Christian, apparently, using them as arrows.

[A]

Yeah. If you're not a Christian parent in the way she's a Christian parent, then children are not blessings.

[B]

Yes.

[D]

And of a warrior that is here to build the kingdom of heaven and to fight against the kingdom of hell, then children become a blessing. Because now I view my children as soldiers to be launched against the kingdom of hell into the kingdom of heaven. You know those parents that say, you know, I don't want to force my kids to be Christian. I don't want to force Christianity on them. That is like you saying, I'm just going to shoot my arrow aimlessly and hope it lands on the target. It is our job and our responsibility to train up a child in the ways that he should go to teach them the word of God. The Bible says that the fathers, they command and that we teach. If our children end up spiritually bankrupt, that's our fault. They need to know their Bibles and we're going to teach it to them. The devil deceives women and mothers into believing that your job is just to give your children physical bread. Your job is not just to give them physical bread. Your job is to give them the bread of life. Your job isn't just to put food into their mouth. It's to put the scroll of the word of God into their heart.

[B]

Wow. Jeez.

[A]

Talk about like objectifying your children and dehumanizing them. Yeah. They are more than just an arrow to be shot at this enemy. You don't see this.

[B]

That is who are. Who is the well at Joe Biden, like, is. It's actually a very low view of children, isn't it, when you really think about it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I just had you, little Johnny, so you could be used as a weapon as I see fit to storm the gates of hell one day. Like, okay, mom, like, thanks. Although. Although she probably screaming it. Little Johnny, I bore you to be a kid arrow. It's like, mom, you're so loud.

[A]

I know.

[F]

Gosh.

[B]

It's just. It's just, you know, it's one of those things where it's like every accusation feels like a confession. Right. They'll tell you that the leftists hate children, they're grooming kids, they devalue life, and yet they see the main purpose of having children to be used as arrows into their culture war.

[N]

Hi, my name is Johnny.

[C]

And my name is Emily and we live in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. We started donating to TNE because of a series of events that started right after we left the evangelical church last year.

[N]

I've dealt with abuse from my family, family pretty much my whole life. It got pretty bad to the point where they started to emotionally abuse and manipulate Emily and our relationship. We talked to a couple of her pastors separately, and we were met with denial, shame, victim blaming, and spiritual abuse. The pastors that we once trusted sided with my abusers and completely rejected us. Once we took a step back from the evangelical church, our eyes were opened. And now it's so hard to not see the situation for what it truly is.

[C]

Ever since we left the church, our friends and those closest to us started to shame us and have said and done many hurtful things. And they have said and done many spiritually abusive things towards us. It made us realize that many Christians don't know how to listen and grieve with those who have been abused and harmed by their religion.

[N]

T and E has been a huge help to us as we're healing. This platform encourages us that we are not alone. You guys have helped us find our voice and learn how to stand up against abuse, especially within the church.

[C]

We wouldn't be who we are today if it wasn't for T and E. We would love to see this platform continue to grow and reach others who are also trying to heal and deconstruct, which is why we decided to donate. So thank you guys for all the work that you do.

[A]

All right, we've got one more Cedra video for you. This is from her sister in law who is married to Andrew Sedra. Tim, you're muted.

[B]

I was just testing you and you passed. Mm. Okay.

[A]

What if I just didn't let you know and you just gotta me the whole show?

[B]

Okay, guys, this is. Yeah, this is the sister. I would say we saved the best for last, honestly. I mean, this is like. This is the crown jewel. Here we go.

[A]

Yeah.

[K]

Rooted in Satanism, in Luciferianism, an adoration of the biblical figure Satan, which. Which they say is the good guy and God is the tyrant. And so this, when I understood this, it makes sense to me why the sacrament of feminism is abortion. Why the sacrament of feminism is child sacrifice, witchcraft, spilling the blood of an innocent in order for you to have better life. This was done all throughout history. So you think it's just the.

[B]

Wait, wait. April, can I ask you a question? Do you know of a story in religion where an innocent human sheds his blood for life? Does that sound. Yeah, right. Like maybe even like brutally, like whipped and beat to the point where he was unrecognizable and then maybe murdered and nailed to a cross to shed his blood. And maybe you sing songs about being washed in the blood of this person. Come on, it's like, it's right there, guys.

[A]

Just wild to me too. These people like railing against feminism, which all of them have done pretty much.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Without feminism, they would not be on this stage with a microphone 100%.

[B]

Not even a question.

[A]

Like, freaking tribes.

[K]

The African voodoo tribes in the middle of nowhere. So racism, animal sacrifice and child sacrifice? No, it is happening in the Christian west. While pastors don't want to get involved because abortion is political. Let's not have that conversation. Wait a second, wait a second. You're telling me ripping apart babies in the womb of their mother is a political problem, not a spiritual one? You're telling me that tearing apart babies in the womb, tearing the family structure, dividing man from woman, actually putting the word of God on trial. You're telling me me that's political, Pastor? No, that is spiritual.

[A]

That is Christian nationalism.

[B]

Yes, yes, it is. By the way, we interviewed a doctor. In fact, she's in the stream now. Deanna, on the Tim April show about abortion, like a whole. We had a whole conversation on abortion. It's a deep dive, what it is

[A]

and what it is not.

[B]

Yes, you can go ahead and look into that because I mean. Oh gosh, it is. There you go, friends. There's A couple. Couple clips from what thousands of young women were told about who they are.

[A]

Yeah, so. And we are gonna have to rush this because I have a heart out here in about seven minutes. So seven. Yeah, maybe eight.

[B]

Okay. We'll be quick. We have some super chats. I have to read them.

[A]

Okay. We'll get through them.

[B]

Okay, here we go. You want to read these?

[A]

Jared the weird worker. How does thinking of your child as an arrow rather than a person line up with unborn? Babies are precious and all life is precious. Great question from Prez Base or Bass TP USA Women's Conference. Oxymoron or just regular moron?

[B]

Who knows?

[A]

You said it. From ASD Frozen. Any thoughts on the SBC vote? Mohler said it covers banning women from podcasts because it involves teaching and interpreting scripture. You know, we were going to cover that. Um, we'll have to do that another day. But, yeah, obviously it's just misogynist that did a misogyny.

[B]

Yeah. Nice. That's it. Yeah.

[A]

So from Deanna much. This much pressure for your kids to be saved is what leads to cases like Andrea Yates, the woman in 2001 who unalived her kids.

[B]

Okay, I know you're hard out. We'll get to it. Friends like this stream. Subscribe to this channel. Thank you so much for being here. Let's get to our final segment because it's a doozy and we got to cover it. So here we go.

[A]

We Christian.

[B]

Okay, let's just play it. Let's just play it.

[A]

Let's just play it.

[B]

God. The devil's a liar. I rebuke him. All right, here we go.

[H]

Some people are saying that we started this energy drink just to make money off of the name and image of God. And that couldn't be further from the truth. Let me tell you why. When we embarked on this journey about a year and a half ago, we felt that God put it on our hearts to specifically preach the gospel through an energy drink. Once we answered that call that God had for us, he started to reveal a whole lot of things. We then learned that there were about 152,000 gas stations across the US alone. And it says on average, about a thousand customers visit those gas stations daily. That is 150 million people a day that visit a gas station. That is 150 million people that we could potentially teach about Jesus Christ to. That is 150 million people who on this can can read what to do to be saved. Or on this can, they can read that God sent his only Son, that if you believe in him, you should not perish, but have everlasting life. Whether you read it in the scriptures or on a can, the word of God is still true. Again, I know this is unconventional. I know it's not the traditional way to share the gospel. And if you're still not okay with it, that is okay. Because if God is for us, who can be against us? Yes, we run a business, which businesses make money, but our reward is not here on earth. Just like in Matthew, he says to not collect treasures on earth, but to collect treasures in heaven. All we wanted to do is be obedient to the call that God asked of us. And that is what we're doing. We want to preach about Jesus. We want to share the good news. We want to share the gospel through our cans.

[B]

Yeah. So for those who can't see, she's holding a can that says Yahweh. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

She's holding her Yahweh energy drink and the microphone is attached. And I went on her page and like all, almost all of her videos, regardless of what she's talking about, she's holding the can with the microphone attached to the can.

[B]

I love how she says that businesses make money. Then the next sentence says about rewards. Not here, it's in heaven.

[A]

Yeah. Then for free, girl. That's your angle.

[B]

If you're that concerned about saving souls, give it away.

[A]

Can you pull up the website? Cause it's hilarious to me. So they sell a 12 pack.

[B]

Wait, hold on, hold on. Read this first. Read it for the podcast people.

[A]

Faith, refreshing purpose.

[B]

That is Yahweh energy.

[A]

That is a very white Jesus Berry Blessed.

[B]

12 pack, $30.

[A]

Tropical Paradise. So you can get a. If you one time purchase, you can buy a 12 pack for 35.95.

[B]

Yep. Or you can subscribe.

[A]

Subscribe and save for. Oh, if you do, if you buy one every week, you can get it for 29.95. If you go every eight weeks, it's 32.95.

[B]

No, no, every two weeks. Every two weeks. So it's still $64 a month.

[A]

Oh, I know. I went to every eight weeks and it was 32.95.

[B]

Oh, went up. I'm sorry I missed that.

[A]

Yeah, it goes depending on your.

[B]

Wow. Wow.

[A]

So this is what the can say. The tropical paradise says John 3:16. For God's love the world, he gave his only begotten son. Whoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. And then bury. Blessed verse says if you Declare with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead. You will be saved.

[B]

And they have a tab called Find Yahweh. Oh my gosh.

[A]

And well and on it.

[B]

This is more than a drink, it's a movement.

[A]

Take him anywhere. That's what it says right under energy drink on the can.

[B]

You're right.

[A]

Take him anywhere you could like in this theology. God is everywhere already. You don't need a drink to take God with you.

[B]

You know, I mean, there are a quarter of a million churches across the United States and yet she's act. This, this brand acts like no one's ever heard about Jesus. Like we had a nine hour long rededicate worship service on the National Mall paid for by taxpayer dollars. We're well aware. We're well aware.

[A]

Honestly, even like back to Ali, this point earlier where she was like, do you love them enough to tell them the truth? I can almost guarantee you they've heard what your version of the truth is.

[B]

Statistically, they have. According to the Barnard Group, this is a conservative Christian outlet. A book unchristian. 75 of Americans say that they made a profession of faith at one time that still means something to them today. 75%. Okay. Now I'm just saying we've all heard it. We know the story.

[A]

So anyway, I want to point out Cassidy, our producer in the, in our chat said that monsters. You can get a 12 pack of Monster Energy Drink at Walmart for $24. I don't know, I just feel like

[B]

if you're not about money, though, April.

[A]

Cheaper than the monster.

[B]

It's not about money brand. April. The reward is in heaven. Okay? The $36 probably just covers their expenses. There's no way they're profiting, you know, a ton. It's impossible. $36 for a 12 pack.

[A]

What would be the weirdest product to make something Jesusy?

[B]

Toilet paper. He washes. He wipes away your sin.

[A]

Yeah, I was thinking like Jesus branded nails

[B]

or a hammer. Hammer and nail set

[A]

was good enough for our Lord and Savior.

[B]

We are going to hell, aren't we? We are going to hell.

[A]

I don't know why energy drink though. Why not? Why not make like a Jesus themed product? That's cheaper. That would be more accessible. I don't know, like, like a pack of gum.

[B]

Yeah. Or no. Testaments. Remember those? Remember testaments? Oh my God, Testaments.

[A]

I appreciate that pun.

[B]

Me too.

[A]

That works. Yeah.

[B]

Here it is. It's still going on. Still going on.

[A]

Yeah. Put those in Gas station. That makes more sense. You're muted again. But I do think.

[B]

I'm so sorry.

[A]

Someone said Jesus. GLP1s. Someone else said condoms. I mean, honestly, anything sexual. I feel like we're going to hell. I'm not going to say that. But like, I don't know. Gum chew molded as God molds you.

[B]

No, no, wait. We can't do gum because you don't want. It's like the chewing gum analogy when you have sex before you're married.

[A]

You know, maybe like thorn bush seeds. Plant your own thorn bush. Get your own thorn in your side to be reminded of what God did for you.

[B]

April, we're. You're. Be careful driving, okay? Just be careful driving. I don't want a lightning bolt to strike you or something. Oh, my God.

[A]

May Jesus themed gas station in general. They should just buy a whole gas like chain of gas stations.

[B]

What would you call it? I don't know. Tell me.

[A]

Fill up. God will fill up your hole. No, listen, that. I didn't make that up. That's not an April original. Do you remember the Donut Man? Yes, the Donut Man.

[D]

Their whole.

[A]

The whole theme was like, let Jesus fill the hole in your heart. Like a donut hole. Yes.

[B]

I'm looking it up. You're making me. Listen, if you're late, this is on you.

[A]

Oh, I know. I got it. I do need to leave. But that's. That's a real thing.

[B]

I'm looking it up.

[A]

Also, I want to say cohee246 mentioned. Didn't think we read their super chat, so thank you for the super chat. I thought that we did, but I will.

[B]

I will just say thank you. Okay. Oh, we have you. Okay, let's read these quick because we. We're committed to it and then we'll wrap it up here. Selling the gospel for a dollar. Spiritually and morally bankrupt. Thank you, Joseph Compton. This whole episode just shows why so many people left the church. Yes. Thank you so much. And last one here. Just. Chuka Tim just created the true TP usa. So funny. Okay, cool.

[A]

Yeah. It literally is about Jesus filling the hole in your heart and they use the donut. It's a whole song. I don't remember.

[B]

I'm looking at it.

[F]

Hillary James.

[B]

Come on. All right, you can get ready for that next song. There's a hole in the middle of your heart. If you don't know that God loves you, well, then your life is empty. Just like the hole in a donut. That's why I fix them every chance I get

[A]

and Jesus fills the hole

[B]

with a round taste tree donut hole.

[D]

Watch.

[B]

Like this there. Okay, I'm done. I'm all good. Thank you. Thanks for that trip down memory lane, April.

[A]

I didn't.

[B]

You're gonna be late. We gotta wrap. We gotta wrap. Friends, thank you so much for being here. It means the world. We go live every Thursday, 12 o' clock Eastern, on YouTube, the Tim and April show, and with our friends at substack over Lincoln Square Media on substack. If you're looking for a better path forward in your faith, make sure to check out the new Evangelicals, the organization that produces this show. They have tons of free resources, including a free community space called tne Connect. You can get it on the Internet via your web browser or the app store or Google Play Store. Everything we do is completely free. There's tons of great scholarship, tons of great community. Check it out. And we'll be back here next Thursday, same time doing the same thing.

[A]

Yes, we have another super chat, though. That came in.

[B]

Oh, my God. Whenever you outta here.

[A]

I know.

[B]

Well, it's worked for you. I could be here all night day.

[A]

You read this from Lauren641. Both of you are doing the Lord's work. May the deconstructionist odds be ever in your favor. It's a jungle out there.

[B]

I love that.

[A]

Thank you for the supervisor.

[B]

With that being said, I'm Tim Whitaker.

[A]

And I'm April Lajoy. Go fill the hole in your donut.

[B]

I was gonna say that. Dang it. Were you, I thought. But you said it better. You said it better. So. All right, bye.

[A]

Bye.