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- [00:00]
A
You're listening to a new evangelicals production. Lululemon's airy, fast drying tennis gear keeps you cool when the court gets hot, breathing out as you breathe in, wicking away distractions with every reach, every return, drying as fast as you volley. So even after match point, you'll feel like you want to do it all again. Shop tennis gear in stores and online@lululemon.com when it comes to what your family eats and drinks, you know your choices matter. You're the expert because you know what fits your life. And getting it right starts with good information. That's why America's beverage companies are sharing more information about our ingredients@goodtokonofacts.org no spin, no judgments, just the facts straight from the experts. For more than 140 beverage ingredients, visit goodtonowfacts.org
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welcome to a new era of baseball's great spectacle. The T Mobile Home Run Derby live on Netflix. The biggest sluggers in baseball put their talents to the test on All Star Weekend. Raw power meets star power, big swagger meets bigger slams. And you don't swing to make contact. You swing to make history. Watch the T Mobile Home Run Derby live on Netflix. Monday, July 13th at 8pm Eastern, 5pm
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A
Pacific,
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33 days, 33 episodes. Join me, Max Rushton, and our expert team of soccer journalists every day of the World cup for analysis, drama, and everything in between. World Cup Daily. Listen on Spotify now or watch full episodes on YouTube. El senor de los yendros temporada final marte siete de julio a las nueve ocho centro porte le mumbo y peacock.
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A
The Tim and April show where we unravel faith, politics and culture.
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B
I don't know why, but my back started really hurting all of a sudden.
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A
Oh, no.
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B
Anyway, I'm good.
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A
Hi, everybody.
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B
Hi, everyone. Welcome to the seven April show. I am Jim Whitaker.
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A
And I'm April a joy.
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B
Yes. Yes. Happy fourth of July. Are we. Are we allowed to say that as progressives? I. Yeah, I mean, like, what's the rules for that?
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A
Does.
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B
Is it proper?
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A
I think you can still say it maybe.
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B
Yeah. You know, okay, here's how I feel about this. You know how in evangelicalism, when we deconstruct, you kind of get to a point where you're like, you know what? Those fundamentalists don't get to own the corner on terms like the gospel or Bible or Christianity. That's kind of how I feel about words like patriot or patriotism or, you know, America. I'm like, you know what? I'm not going to let the Christian fascists own these terms and claim that they're the true patriots. Because I'll tell you what, I do love this country so much that I think she can be better and realize her ideals. And I feel like that is true patriotism. So happy 4th of July. We have work to do, but we have come far, but we still have work to do.
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A
Yeah, well, and I think, you know, we can celebrate the USA in the World cup and cheer them on. Yes, like day one last night.
- [03:54]
B
Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Two. Oh, you know, and look, I mean, what is it MLK who talks about, like, the arc of justice, you know, or like how history is bent towards justice? So it's obviously, I think a lot of us have talked about how we've kind of regressed over the past few years, but there's still a lot that we can celebrate for what America has done, but also talk about the work that needs to happen. So I think we could do both. Yeah, look at that. We solved it. Solve. That's what we do on this show.
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A
But solve stuff.
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B
Just solve it. So you watched the World cup then, too?
- [04:26]
A
I did. I did. I. You know, I'm not the biggest soccer fan. And no, like, it's not like I dislike it. I just don't spend my time watching it. Same. But I did. I felt like that red card was not a red card. From the little bit I know about soccer.
- [04:46]
B
I know. I don't even know how offsides work half the time. Like, wait, what happened? How is. So, yeah, it didn't look. It looked like it wasn't warranted, but I don't. So my understanding is two yellow cards and you're suspended for the game that you're in and the next game and a red card is just instant. It's like there is no. There's no warning. You're just out.
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A
Right. And so he's also out for the next game.
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B
That's a big deal, I think. Right. Because we're going to play Belgium, who's
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A
a very small team from what I've gathered.
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B
Okay.
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A
It's not great, but.
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B
Well, the good thing about going live, which, by the way, if you're watching this, please make sure to like this video on YouTube and like it on substack. The good thing about going live is it's only a matter of time before the comments will tell us how soccer works. That's the best part. Like, we have instant fact checkers on this show at any given time. So I'm sure at some point we're going to have someone says, oh, no, here's how offsides work, here's how red cards work.
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A
But yeah, anyway, fantastic.
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B
Yes.
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A
Yay. I guess so. I don't know where you want to go to. There's been a series of SCOTUS Supreme Court rulings that happened this week. A positive. Is it. They did uphold birthright citizenship, which is a blow to MAGA movement. And what Trump wants to do so.
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B
Well, was the ruling. I think the ruling was like, five, four, though, wasn't it?
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A
I mean. Yeah, it was. Was it five, four?
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B
I'm looking it up. Five, three. Yeah, yeah. Five, four. Five, four, four. Judges thought that Trump's executive order to suspend parts of the Constitution was not unconstitutional.
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A
Like, I feel like the bar is so low that we're. We are celebrating the Supreme Court upholding the Constitution.
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B
Yay. Yay.
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A
But, you know, it's a good thing because there. There's a world in which they don't do it. And then there's so many MAGA talking heads online that are losing their minds over that, too.
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B
Of all the things like, like Matt Walsh was. Was. I don't. Look. Sharon says so who's a friend of the show all. She said that this essentially just changes nothing since. It's been like, since 1860, something like nothing has. Nothing has changed at all in the past 200, however many years, 180 years after this ruling. And the way people. Some people. The way some people are acting on the right is like, somehow the Supreme Court gutted the Constitution. I don't know, man. And it's really weird. It's really weird. It's. It's hard to keep track of this stuff half the time, in my opinion. But as far as, like, just how, like, why I can never keep track of. Are we following the Constitution or not? Because I grew up listening to talk radio and they were so. They used to hand out pocket constitutions that events I would go to. They used to hand out pocket constitutions. And so are we doing that, guys, or are we not? Like, which is it? Which is it?
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A
Are we constitutionalists like they claim?
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B
Right, Exactly. Exactly.
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But there also have been some not so great rulings. Like, they upheld a ban on trans athletes in sports. I don't. I don't really know how that.
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B
From what I understand, they upheld the right for states to ban trans athletes from, you know, competing in. In sports based on their gender. And they essentially said it was not a violation, I think of Title 9 was. Was what they said. So, yeah, it's not really great. Also, you know, and I said this on, on threads, it continues to amaze me how this is what we're paying tax dollars for to rule on things like this. That really should not be nearly as much as a conversation as right wing media wants you to wants to make it out to be. It's a huge distraction from actual issues that we should be solving in this country that actually hurt people. It's just frustrating to watch that. But anyway, yeah, it's been a very interesting, interesting week. Also, on a quick side note, April, I have to tell you about something. It's a show because we talked about what was the show? Widow's Bay.
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A
Widow's Bay.
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B
I have started Cape Fear on Apple tv. Sarah and I.
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A
Have you finished it?
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B
Well, it's still ongoing. Like it's, we caught up. We caught up.
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A
Okay.
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B
And it's very good. And you should definitely watch that show.
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A
Okay. I want to watch it. I've heard good things.
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B
Yes.
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A
Just haven't had the chance yet.
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B
You absolutely should. Oh, wait, look, I called it. Here's the super chat. It wasn't a red card offense. This is about, about the World cup game. The refs definitely had it in for us. I think the refs wanted to show their displeasure for how we treated their fellow referee, denying him entry to the usa. Oh, is that a thing?
- [09:43]
A
You know, I, I, I don't know about that. But I will say when I saw that red card, I, I literally, I told Beechers, like, I feel like they do have it in for us. And it's probably because of, you know, it's really hard to separate USA from Donald Trump and MAGA and all the terrible things worldwide. And honestly, I'm like, I, I mean, I disagree with the call, but I understand, I got it. You know, if you're, but it's also not fair to the players, not the Trump administration. You know, and there's so many Americans like us and probably most people in our chat right now that watch this show or listen that are that completely disagree with what the Trump administration is doing. But we are still Americans. You know, it's.
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B
Yes.
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A
You know, I get it. I understand.
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B
Yeah. Well, they want to. Oh, next is Belgium. We'll see. I and I think that was a pretty historic win. Look, I wish I could say I follow soccer. Spoiler alert. I do not. But I've been watching some games of the World Cup. I think that it was pretty historic for the US to win this one. If they advance and win the next round, I think that is like a potential first in a USA sport or USA soccer moment. So we'll see. We'll see how it goes. We'll see how it goes. So. Well, speaking of celebrations and great stuff, I'm not sure if you knew about this April, but America is going big this year for our 250th anniversary. Oh yeah. It's go big or go home. And we are going big. And it turns out that our fearless leader Trump wanted to do a massive state fair in D.C. i also need to give people a heads up on something about kind of the context. There are two different committees that were, that were set up to organize America's 250th celebration year. So there was one that took shape 10 years ago called I Think Celebrate. It's called America 250. Okay. This was a nonpartisan, bipartisan committee of people that had 10 years to work together to plan this year's big celebration. When Trump got into office, he pushed that aside, started his own Partizan Freedom250 group. And that's what's been in charge of this year's celebration. The UFC fights and now this state fair is all Trump's freedom 250, you know, Partizan committee. And so, you know, as always, Trump did promise a massive, amazing fair that would be amazing and full of awesome things. So I have a little compilation. I've been perusing the Internet and I found some footage and here is the footage of the state fair over the past couple of days. Here you go. Yeah, it's pretty bad.
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A
I saw reports that apparently a lot of people in the Trump administration are a little panicked because of the fourth of July celebration that they have coming up this weekend. And they're really nervous that people are not going to show up based on the low numbers at the fair. I mean, and allegedly I've heard reports that Trump is very upset about it.
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B
Of course, because Trump expects to be worshiped wherever he goes. Don't forget, this man has no problem building golden statues in his name and having pastors pray over them. Right? So that's how big his ego is. Of course he's outraged that this is what his self aggrandizing state fair looks like and has looked like four days. By the way. Some of these are, some of these shots are from weekends. It's not just like a, a Monday at 3 o'. Clock. This is like a Saturday or, or a Wednesday night. So it's been a complete, complete disaster. And I have some other footage too. So, you know, our friends over at Fox News, though, they have been. They've been live broadcasting from the fair. It just. I'm sorry. I'm coughing so. Laughing so hard. It just looks so bad. Look how there's got to be. Realistically, I know it's a big spot. There's got to be maybe in this picture, 400 people tops, scattered throughout. Maybe. I mean, if you went all the way back. So here's what Fox News is doing when they're broadcasting. This is a real clip from them. Well, I'm John Roberts. Good to be back with you again here in Washington.
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A
Back with you. It's even warmer today than yesterday, but
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B
it's a dry heat. That's the great thing about Washington.
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It's a dry heat. All right, I'll take that. I'm Sandra Smith, and this is America Reports back live with you again from the great American state.
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B
The way she looks back. The great American state. There's no one there, dude. Guys, there's nothing happening.
- [15:05]
A
I feel like I saw a clip. I don't know where it is. Where they similar in this setting. Say something like, weird. There's thousands of people here and there's just not.
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B
There's.
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A
You can see the background.
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B
There's nothing. And okay, so apparently what they did was they set up different booths for every state. And, like, very few states are participating. Like, you go to, like, California. It's like three chairs in the video just on a loop that's playing in front of a tv. There's just. Okay, so in New Jersey, we don't, like, do it. I mean, state fairs are a thing, but they're also not a thing, at least where I am. But we do have a fair called the Columbus Market Fair that we all go to. And it's very much like a fair. There's animals and all this stuff. There's nothing like that here in this picture, there's a Ferris wheel and a bunch of booths. There's. I don't see any food vendors. I don't see any animals.
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A
I think it's just a Ferris wheel. And then there's individual rooms that are supposed to represent every. Each state.
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B
Right, Right.
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A
In the union. Like, yes, I saw someone tweet, and I, I don't think that this is it, but it's a funny thought that. Does Trump think that a state fair is about states, and that's why it's just a bunch of states, but it is like the 250th America celebration. Can I just say, like, America has a lot of problems and there's a lot that we should not celebrate. But I'm a little, I'm annoyed that the 250th celebration is falling under the Trump administration.
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B
Yes.
- [16:42]
A
Like he is botching this left and right, starting with the, the UFC fight on the White House lawn.
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B
What is unifying about doing a UFC fight on the White House lawn where a fighter makes transphobic comments about the former first lady? What are we. How. What is her to celebrate when that's what our regime is doing in the honor of our, quote, unquote, great nation like God. And then the state fairs. It's a complete flop. And by the way, I need to point this out really quick, April, if you don't mind. According to Mother Jones. Okay. They have a report that just came out that, that, and they're saying that essentially Trump has an advisor firm that is just raking in money hand over fist to put on all of these events. This is from the article. It says, to celebrate the 250th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, Donald Trump has promised the July 4th fireworks display in Washington will be the the largest in world history. There will be a parade, a 17 plane flyover, and a spectacular Trump rally quote featuring a lengthy speech by the president. The private company producing these festivities, Event Strategies, is no stranger to massive gatherings on the National Mall. Five years ago, the same firm helped organize Trump's January 6, 2021 rally at the Ellipse, which preceded the that day's attack on the U.S. capitol. And since Trump returned to the White House, Event Strategies, sometimes known as esi, has received tens of millions of dollars in federal contracts from government agencies, some without any competitive bidding. Come on.
- [18:28]
A
Well, and I think the biggest, like, I mean, one that's very telling, but also, Donald Trump makes everything about himself. There's like the idea that we would even celebrate something that's not him. Like the American, like, even. I don't know if you remember the, when the COVID stimulus checks went out, he wanted to be the one to sign them. Like, he wanted it to be like Trump checks. And even the, the thousand dollars that he's supposedly supposed to be giving babies born. They are. It's called Trump Accounts.
- [19:03]
B
Yep, yep.
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A
Like, and, and he recently just announced that he was rebranding the United States passport to include his face on it.
- [19:13]
B
Yes, you have to go to D.C. to get that version, but that's exactly right. And he also just announced recently about, about his signature being on Social Security cards for newborn babies.
- [19:24]
A
He's so narcissistic. Like, I, it is just, it is just wild to me. Like, and if, and if President Obama or Biden did just like 1% of the shenanigans that Donald Trump does, MAGA would lose, would have lost their minds. I mean, they did lose. They lost their minds over much less.
- [19:47]
B
Obama wore a bike helmet and they did a special on that. Obama wore a tan suit and they did a special on that. Obama asked for Dijon mustard on his burger and Sean Hannity did an entire segment on that.
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A
It is so ridiculous.
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B
Well, and that's why, like, and that's why I think a lot of us are like, we wanna, like, celebrate America. But also, like, out of all the years, we're celebrating a time where a man who is so authoritarian, so ego, egocentric, so megalomaniac is putting his name all over everything. That is the celebration. It's kind of hard to celebrate that it's the opposite of what America stands for. I mean, America started as a rebellion, breaking away, away from tyranny. I mean, given all of its flaws that we all talk about and know its major problems at the core was we're out of here because you're tyrannical and you're not going to rule over us anymore. And you have to have the consent of the governed in order to govern well.
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A
And I think everything that Donald Trump, to your point, represents is kind of the antithesis of America. Of what? Like, of what? At least, like the symbolism of what America is supposed to represent, which is equality for all people. And I know that we don't have that. Right, but that's, that's the idea, right? And it's the idea of, like, we're all, we are so many different ethnicities, we come from so many different cultures, but we are a melting pot of diversity. And that is what makes America great. And Donald Trump is the opposite of that, where he's trying to make, you know, even the Christian nationalism behind him and pushing for, you know, a very white cishet America, which is just not what we've ever been.
- [21:34]
B
Let me show you what is anti American. I actually, someone put it in our discord chat earlier today. I'm gonna grab this real quick. Just, can I just, can I paste this right into here? I can. Okay, let me just save it real quick and pull it. So we all obviously know about the Supreme Court ruling, et cetera. And the first thing the Trump administration did was they started saying things like this. If you see a pregnant foreigner, contact ICE immediately. The future of our country depends on it. Benny Johnson, one of the worst MAGA pundits in human history, retweets and says, yes, this is un American. This is not an American principle. America is a country built by, and created by ultimately immigrants. Again with. We all know the, the founding, the major problems, all. I'm not discounting any of that. But like, America was built by immigrants, whether they were here consensually or not. And this is just an anti American thing to do. Especially after SCOTUS rules that the Constitution should be upheld. It's just wild. It's wild. These people are not American.
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A
Right? Well, like, America would not exist with like, we are all immigrants with the exception of indigenous people who we stole the land from.
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B
Yeah, exactly. Okay, one more video I wanted to play from some people at the fair, giving their opinion of how they're experiencing the fair. Here we go. What do you think of all of this? Not much.
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A
Not much.
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B
And I've been to state fairs all throughout the United States. This is terrible. And how so. It's a program length advertisement for the President.
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A
It's interesting. It's very interesting. I've never seen anything like this before, for sure, in my 27 years of living in Virginia and live near the D.C. area. And does any.
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B
Anything jump out at you?
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A
No, nothing.
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B
There's no cows, there's no sheep, there's no goats. It's not a state fair without animals.
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A
There's a butter cow, I'm told, at
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B
least in the Iowa booth. Maybe it'll. It'll melt by tomorrow. I'm totally underwhelmed. It's part political.
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A
That arch over there is, I think,
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B
promoting one of Trump's vanity projects.
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A
I compare this to the Smithsonian Folklife
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B
Festival that they do every year, which is wonderful, really. You know, talks about different cultures and countries. This is so bland. But I had to come down and see it.
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A
The multiple stages at the event were largely empty.
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B
There you go. But isn't. Isn't this so indicative of Christian nationalism? There's nothing original here. Right. White Christian nationalism thrives off of stealing and colonizing and taking over other people's stuff when they're left to their own devices. This is what we get. A bland as heck state fair that isn't even a state fair. There's no music, there's no energy, there's no creativity. The buildings are as bland as possible. There's one Ferris wheel. There's nothing there. I just think, like, it's just telling of what's under the hood of all this stuff. There's. There's nothing of. There's no kind of ingenuity. There's no kind of creativity. It's just shallow. Yeah, it's just shallow. As shallow as the reflecting pool is, you know, it's just. This is what it is. And they promised the world, right? Trump has been tweeting the biggest fair, the best fair, the most. The world's never seen this before. Well, in a way, Donald, you're kind of white, right? I mean, no one's really seen a state fair that's been this poorly put on. I don't know, it just represents, I think, to me, what's underneath the hood of all this rhetoric. A bunch of nothing. A bunch of nothing.
- [25:30]
A
When you're also dealing with a bunch of narcissistic men who think everything they touch turns to gold and that they can do everything because no one's ever told them no in their life. And so they're like, oh, I could do a fair. I don't need experts to come in and do this reflection pool. I'll do my buddy. Like, they think. They just think their. Their toots don't stink, you know? Speaking of reflection reflecting pool, the official state fair posted a few photos of one of the bands that was performing. I don't know if you pulled that or not.
- [26:06]
B
I can find them. I know you're talking about, but I
- [26:09]
A
think the Trump administration is. Is being beaten by more than one reflecting situation. And one of the band members was wearing sunglasses, and people started zooming in on the reflection of the sunglasses to see the crowd or the lack thereof.
- [26:33]
B
So, yeah, so this is from the official Freedom 250, Faith and Freedom. Celeste Kellogg rocked the main stage at the Great American State Fair. And you would think by this picture, wow, there's a pretty full audience. It's looking real great. And, yeah, the Internet is always undefeated. You kind of keep zooming in, and you zoom in again. There's just not. There's no one there. Five or six, maybe.
- [27:01]
A
Yeah, both sides.
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B
Again, there's the propaganda, though. I mean, there's. There's. There's the. The statement rocked the main stage at the Great American State Fair. It's a great time. It's a party. Look how good it looks. Reality. There's just nothing going on. Nothing. Yeah, that is.
- [27:19]
A
That brought me life. That was so funny.
- [27:23]
B
Yeah. Well, we live in such an interesting timeline. Are you doing anything for the 4th of July? Do you do family stuff for anything?
- [27:29]
A
We're usually out of town for the 4th of July, so we're in town this year. So I don't actually really know what our area does for the fourth. That would be good. We usually. Sorry. Well, you're tired. Yeah, we usually try to find fireworks. I did buy some sparklers. Waving around.
- [27:52]
B
I'm gonna, I'm gonna order you on air. A cup of coffee be delivered to your house immediately.
- [27:57]
A
I know I've had coffee at this summer. I think I'm still recovering from being gone for so long.
- [28:04]
B
Are you guys also going through a heat wave right now because it's like 100 degrees in New Jersey. Yeah.
- [28:08]
A
Yeah.
- [28:09]
B
It kills me too. So yeah, so New Jersey has like loosened some regulation on fireworks but you still can't get the big guys but in Pennsylvania again. So usually we try and pick up a few and then we're gonna spend the weekend at my parents house. They live on right on the water in New Jersey. So we'll spend the weekend there with my brother and all them have a great time. So yeah, it's gonna be a good time. Friends, thank you for being here. By the way, welcome to the stream. If you are watching on YouTube, please make sure to give this video a like it takes no effort. You just take your finger and you go boop. Like that would be so helpful. If you're watching on Substack, make sure to hit the heart button. It makes us feel really great. But more importantly, it tells substack that hey, people like what they're watching. That means so much. The Team in April show is produced by the New Evangelicals, a nonprofit organization helping you find a better path forward in faith. You can go to thenewevangelicals.com connect to get access to their free community space full of free resources. Amazing people. Regional group chats. TNE is a great organization. I started it in 2021. Now it's run by Melinda Hale. They have so many great resources. So if you're looking for a better path forward, make sure to go check them out. Thenewevangelicals.com connect also we have other podcasts. There's the New Evangelicals podcast and also Advocacy Hour. Both worth checking out.
- [29:30]
A
Hey everyone, this is Melinda Hale, the executive director of the New Evangelicals.
- [29:35]
B
Listen.
- [29:35]
A
Every day we hear from people who
- [29:37]
B
feel isolated, disillusioned and hurt by a version of Christianity that has been hijacked by politics and nationalism.
- [29:44]
A
And yet they still long for a
- [29:45]
B
faith that is rooted in love, justice and compassion. And that's why the New Evangelicals exist, because we believe there is a better path forward. We're creating resources hosting conversations, and we're building communities for people who want to reclaim Christianity and stay rooted in the teachings of Jesus. But building a movement like this takes time, it takes energy, and it takes financial support. So if this podcast or our YouTube, our educational offerings or community space or anything that we've created has impacted you, would you consider becoming a donor? Even a gift of $5 makes a
- [30:18]
A
huge difference for small organizations like this. Your support helps us to continue empowering
- [30:23]
B
people to put their faith into action
- [30:25]
A
by rejecting Christian nationalism and to live in a way that shows people how
- [30:29]
B
to truly love our neighbors. Together, I know that we could build something beautiful. So visit thenewevangelicals.com support to give today. You can find the link right in our show Notes.
- [30:39]
A
Thank you for standing with us.
- [30:42]
B
Priceline Negotiator it's me, the Priceline negotiator. We don't need the jingle twice. What about a third time? Stop it. This is about vacation inflation and how Priceline negotiates amazing deals on hotels, flights, and rental cars. Seems like we decided. Yeah, but I didn't mention that you can save up to 60% off hotels in the Priceline app.
- [31:04]
A
Time to read the timeline.
- [31:05]
B
Fine. No one deals more deals than Priceline. Please stop Priceline. Touche.
- [31:11]
A
Priceline. Priceline.
- [31:12]
B
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- [31:29]
A
need a laptop that's built to perform and designed to last all day. Select Windows 11 PCs starting at $499.99 are now at Best Buy. Learn more at Best Buy.com Best Buy Imagine that. Okay, so several of you, all since Tim and I this. This clip that we're going to show you, but this one was extra disturbing for me because it was close. It's. It's in my town. It's in Lexington, Kentucky. And it's a. It's a v. It's a clip from vbs, a Vacation Bible School. And this one is unsettling because every year my kids get invited to go to a VBS from their friends and churches and they've gone to a few over the years. But we've got, you know, since we're more aware of how deep Christian nationalism is about it, we're very strict on, like, vetting churches. So they pretty much only go to our churches if they go at all. But yeah, there's a video Going around that.
- [32:42]
B
But can we just. For the audience who might not know, Vacation Bible school. Do you want to explain? Like, let's give our not evangelical friends some context about that term and what it actually usually is.
- [32:54]
A
Okay. So vacation Bible school is kind of like. I think they are usually free. I have seen it occasionally where they charge like $10, but usually they're free. And it's kind of a. They. They kind of promote it as, like, free childcare for your. Pay for parents as you work this summer. Give us your kids at this church. It's usually for like three hours, so it's like a half day. Typically, they. They play a lot of games. They. They do competitions, crafts. There's usually worship. Yeah, it's. It's like church mixed in with kids camp, but on a smaller scale because it's just you drop off and you pick up same day.
- [33:34]
B
Right. I have both been a child in vbs and I have both run vbs, and they are usually designed to be pretty benign. Like, for example, I learned love is patient, love is kind. You know, First Corinthians 13. I learned that whole verse by song in VBS. Like, it was a good thing. I still remember the whole song, you know, so usually they're like, usually, not always, but usually they're pretty innocent. It's just like the theme is, you know.
- [34:00]
A
Pirates.
- [34:01]
B
Yeah, pirates. Yeah. We got to find the hidden treasure, which is, you know, like a Bible verse or something. It's like. It's very silly stuff like that.
- [34:10]
A
Okay. Yeah. And it can. I mean, depending on where you go, they can get into the. You were born evil, you deserve to go to hell like that. Those are there. But they're usually kind of viewed more as outreach. So they. Yes, they try to, like, bring people in through fun and lights and bright colors and all that stuff.
- [34:30]
B
They'll give you the bad news after you signed up, you know, so.
- [34:33]
A
Right, right.
- [34:35]
B
So.
- [34:36]
A
So that is vacation Bible school. So this clip went viral. This is from. It's Mount Olivet Baptist Church. I think it's Baptist. I'll fact check that. But this is a clip from their vbs. And trigger warning.
- [34:52]
B
Yeah, trigger warning.
- [34:53]
A
They do perform a fake execution.
- [34:59]
B
Well, spoiler too.
- [35:02]
A
Firing squad.
- [35:03]
B
Now. No one's gonna watch this. Yeah.
- [35:07]
A
Okay. Let's just watch this, and then we can. We'll talk about it.
- [35:10]
B
All right, Here we go.
- [35:34]
A
Up.
- [36:08]
B
You gotta love this. I've been thinking about this all day. 1, 2, 3, 4. What's after 4? What's after 6? I don't know what he's counting for? Did you hear the pop at the end? Did they?
- [36:36]
A
Yeah. And then the kids scream and they were like, bracing. So I. I don't know the context for the ending part. There the pastor is counting down, and then you hear kind of a big bang.
- [36:48]
B
I just need to ask for all of the people who are worried about the gay agenda grooming their children and indoctrinating them. Is anyone concerned about children, like, what looks to be between 4 to maybe 10 at the oldest, watching something like this at their church?
- [37:07]
A
Oh, I know.
- [37:08]
B
A bunch of men with guns shooting another human being.
- [37:13]
A
Yeah.
- [37:14]
B
And chanting for it to happen.
- [37:17]
A
I mean, beyond, like, it's traumatizing, but also that can desensitize kids to violence.
- [37:24]
B
Yes. Well, look, one of the ways that an actual person groom, an actual predator, grooms a child is by you normalize what is not normal. Right. That certain behavior, certain patterns. You do it over time to make the child feel like this is. This is. This is a normal thing. That's exactly what this is. To have adults in a room normalizing four or five men in military garb with guns, dragging someone in, pointing their guns at that person and then opening fire and that person flailing like they're being killed while everyone laughs and cheers for it is complete grooming behavior towards violence.
- [38:05]
A
Oh, 100%. So this went very viral for obvious reasons. You and I talk about Christian nationalism all the time, and we are exposed to a lot of this stuff. And even I was like.
- [38:16]
B
I was like, whoa, Shocked by this.
- [38:19]
A
Like, in front of Holy moly.
- [38:20]
B
Yeah.
- [38:22]
A
So the pastor made a response. The pastor's name is Dwayne Walker. He posted a seven minute video on Facebook. And this is like a shorter version of that. We're not going to play the whole thing, but he does say that basically justifies it because they were shooting the devil. So I guess the person was. Was supposed to represent Satan.
- [38:44]
B
Yes. So there was a narrative going around that this was about killing an immigrant. That was not what this pastor says is happening. Although, obviously, given what happened in that video and given the context of our current situation, the fact that people in churches like that are incredibly xenophobic. That's not a stretch to make at all. You have men in camouflage and gear taking out someone. It could be perceived that way easily. But that's not what he says is going on. Here's his response. I trimmed it down. It's pretty short. Here's the crux of his argument. Here you go. We have characters every year that Represent good and right and God, and we have characters that represent evil and wrong and that which should be avoided. We every year, through skits and songs and games and just a lot of fun, we make church a fun place, a happy place. A place where we hate sin, but we love the sinner. A place where we exalt Jesus and we hate the devil. The last several years, we've had the Commandos for Christ. Commandos for Christ. That has the gospel gun. I'm sorry, the gospel. How antithetical is that to the actual gospel? It doesn't make any sense. Oh, my God. The gospel God, dude. Like, wow, okay. Answer for the devil, the gospel and the word of God. It's the answer. The clip you saw was simply killing the devil. I'll be honest with you. If I could kill the devil every day and raise him up and kill him again, I do it. He's the one we hate. We are not allowed by God to hate anybody else, not even our enemies. And that's all that clip was. I'm not one to be this kind of person, but he does not look right. There's something about how he's talking and his mannerisms that make me feel like you. You look very. To me, dude, you look kind of psychotic. And frankly, any grown man that looks like he could have grandchildren at this point that thinks it's appropriate for children to watch that. And also that was the guy in the room hosting this event. Something is not mentally right with how you perceive the world. I don't care about your theology. I don't care what you believe you could be. I don't care. I don't care what you believe. If that's your outcome. This is a good thing for children to witness. It's a fun, happy thing. Something is wrong with you. Something is incorrect.
- [41:25]
A
He. He just said too, if he could kill the devil, raise him up, and then kill him again every day, he would. That is psychotic. Why wouldn't you just kill him the one time and move on? Why does it have to be an eternal killing of the devil? Weird. Also that the. The problem with that. And you know, in the. In the full clip, he says, if you would have been here the whole week, you would have seen that that character was. Had been so in mischief the whole week. And he never says what the sewing mischief was, but I don't think the sewing mischief, whatever it is, would warrant death by firing squad, an execution. Right. And, you know, not that it would make it better. I do think it would make it a little bit better. Even though you shouldn't do this in front of children at all, but the guy that they're shooting just looks like a human being. He doesn't look like the devil.
- [42:25]
B
Right.
- [42:25]
A
And when kids are really young and an elder, like, especially like kindergarten, first grade, second grade, they're not gonna get the symbolism of like, oh, this human being represents the literal entity.
- [42:38]
B
Right?
- [42:39]
A
They're just. See, yeah, they're just seeing a human being being shot also.
- [42:43]
B
What is this dude doing up here? What. What is he?
- [42:47]
A
I have no idea.
- [42:48]
B
Right? Like, it doesn't. Nothing adds up. Why is there a guy on the top right of the. Of the setup dressed in like all black with a gun? What is happening here? I can't really, honestly, I can't think of anything more antichrist than this. I mean, this is just like talk about indoctrination and also talk about bad theology. This idea that the devil is everywhere and that the devil can. Is just almost as powerful as God. Right? The devil is everywhere, everything's the devil and you have to kill the devil. That is not the call of the Christian. The call of the Christian is to love God and to love your neighbor as yourself. Those are the two most important commands. Not included is kill the devil, which you can't do anyway you could you even assuming the devil even exists, right?
- [43:39]
A
You can't kill the devil with a gun. Like, if a spiritual being, like, in the way that they believe the devil, like, that would not be how you kill him.
- [43:48]
B
These are the same churches, April, that told you your. Your shoulders are being exposed and the. And the old man down the pew is going to lust after them, but has no problem doing things like this. Yeah, that's what, that's what's so crazy is like the priorities of these spaces is just for me so ass backwards. Right? Like you're gonna police what little girls wear because of grown men not being able to be first off, just, you know, normal adults number in number two, control their. Whatever their. Their eyes and stuff. But you're gonna think it's okay to have that little girl watch this happen with her peers and teachers in authority.
- [44:27]
A
What?
- [44:28]
B
What?
- [44:29]
A
Well, even I. I believe him that it probably represented the devil, because growing up in this world, violence against the devil was. It was not just okay, but encouraged. Like, you stomp on the devil's feet, you keep him under your feet, you rebuke the devil. Like spiritual warfare. Like, there's so much military language already built in to this ideology. The song that we used to sing, like, I'm in the Lord's army, like you're, You're. You're warriors for Christ. So you, you kind of have this higher sense of purpose that you are a soldier and a warrior and public school, Satan's playground, you're supposed to go in and save souls and fight the devil and fight sin.
- [45:14]
B
Yes, yes.
- [45:14]
A
The problem with that is that no one is ever actually fighting a literal devil.
- [45:22]
B
Right.
- [45:23]
A
Because you see the devil and fellow human beings that were made in the image of God and people who are different than you and people who believe differently than you, and you're taught, especially when you have a very black and white ideology where we're on the side of good, everything we believe is holy and of God. And if you don't believe like us, there's no middle ground. There's no nuance. You are on the side of Satan. That's. You are on the side of evil, and therefore you are an enemy.
- [45:54]
B
That's right.
- [45:54]
A
And it's. It's another reason why, you see, you see this same group of people demonizing empathy, literally saying it's a sin, saying that it's toxic because they want to keep you at arm's length from other people. So because it's easier to hate them and it's easier to assume they are satanic and they are demonic and. And then you don't see the humanity in them and you don't see God in them.
- [46:17]
B
Right. As visceral as this, this, this video was, all it's doing is. Is visualizing what is taught to millions of children across the US at any given time in these churches. Like, really, they. It is not uncommon at all to hear, to be taught, like everything that you just said, April, and how. We have to. We have to defeat the devil. We have to put on the full armor of God. We have to have a weapon at all times. We have to be able to. To, you know, whatever it is, that's what. It's all war language. That's why the jump to, like, violence and the jump to, like, this, this dehumanization is so easy in particular for white Christian nationalism, because the foundation of it is we're in a war. There's only two sides. You're either on our side or on the enemy's side. God has given us not a spirit of fear. Right. But an attitude of courage to go defeat the devil. To go defeat the enemy.
- [47:12]
A
Yeah.
- [47:12]
B
That is baked into the evangelical cake up and down in all different kinds of ways, both subtly and overtly. 100%.
- [47:21]
A
Yep. Yeah. So there's I mean there's just so many things wrong with it. But also think about like, do you remember the Passion of the Christ? And just how violent that movie is? And there were people bringing their kindergarteners to watch that. I because it's like violence, as long as it has to do with the Bible or the devil or Jesus, like is okay to show children.
- [47:45]
B
I was 11 and I brought two of my 11 year old friends. They were very quiet on the way home. We had nothing to say. It was a quiet ride. I, I, I was not allowed to watch certain PG movies because they said something like this sucks. Like that, that phrase sucks was in the movie. We couldn't watch it. Somehow though, I could watch a man get beat to a bloody pulp without any kind of censoring at all and then get crucified on top of that. And that was totally like.
- [48:16]
A
And then be told that your sin as a five year old put Jesus on the cross and that you are responsible for his death.
- [48:24]
B
You are responsible for what just happened. Yeah, exactly.
- [48:28]
A
And conservative.
- [48:29]
B
That's not wrong.
- [48:30]
A
Therapy and I know and maga they are constantly screaming about the left wants to indoctrinate your children. College professors want to indoctrinate your children. Yada, yada, yada. Like they go on and on about protecting their kids from left wing indoctrination and meanwhile they are the ones actually doing the indoctrinating.
- [48:53]
B
Yes, yes. Look, April, for people who are new to the show, you and I grew up in these spaces. We are former evangelical fundamentalists. You wrote a book about this. Where is it, April? That, that book, Is it around?
- [49:05]
A
Oh, you know it is.
- [49:07]
B
Oh, there it is. There it is.
- [49:09]
A
Yeah.
- [49:09]
B
You wrote a book. I started an organization. We talk about this stuff all the time. It is, it is. Growing up in a dark, damp basement, as I say over and over again, it is complete indoctrination. You are just taught that anything beyond this worldview is false. It's antichrist, it's evil, it's bad, it's dangerous. And you're taught to have a mindset of judgment and fear and not curiosity and compassion. Like you're just not, you know, you don't want to be taught new things. You don't, you don't want new information. All new information must be defended against. That's why there is an entire apologetics industry, right, that makes a lot of money, that has conferences, that has books and speakers, who. All they do is tour college campuses defending their version of the Christian faith. That's all they do. Their minds are never changed. They never adapt and never evolve in light of new data. They always defend. That's just how you're taught through and through, through and through. Everyone's an enemy but you and your tribe. Everyone. Everyone. And these kids are in the middle of that process, right? Like the devil. Because who, what really is the devil when you think about it? What is it? It could be anything. It's almost like the term woke, right, where it's a catch all term that can be applied to anything that, that, that, that they just don't like. It could be literally anything that they don't like. Same thing with the devil. Anything bad, that's the devil. Anything good even could be the devil. The devil could be testing you or tempting you to get away from God's desires for you by giving you things that look good. Anything can be the devil.
- [50:41]
A
Including your own instincts.
- [50:43]
B
Your own instincts, your own desires could be the devil. Your family could be. I mean guys, the second something comes between you and the church really and your maybe involvement in the church or how much you give to the church or whatever else it might be, that's the devil attacking you. So it could be parents one day who want you to leave the church and maybe not be a Christian anymore. That could be the devil. But at the same time the devil could also be people who are trying to pull you away from your parents. Like it just, it could be used for, in any capacity. And it's, that's just kind of how it works, you know, it's. Yeah, it's very hard to escape, that's for sure. It's very hard.
- [51:24]
A
It is. So be very wary before you send your child to VBS near you. You never know what they're teaching your children.
- [51:33]
B
You never know.
- [51:35]
A
Let's you want to get caught up on super chats and then we'll go to the final segment of the day.
- [51:40]
B
Friends, thank you again for being here. If you're watching this video, please make sure to like and subscribe to the channel. We go live every Thursday, 12 o' clock Eastern. Although we are taking the month of August off. August will be a month off for April and I from the show. So just a heads up on that. But yeah, please make sure to like and subscribe. It means so much and thanks to our friends over at LinkedIn Media Square on Substack who restream this for us. We love going live on Substack. It's been so great meeting their audience. So thank you guys for watching. It's awesome. Okay, where do we leave off here? Here we go. This is from Joseph Katum. Again. Row means row on. The Norway fans pretend to row a boat in unison. You have to see it. It's awesome. I have seen that. It's scary too. I mean, it's like, whoa. Yeah, it's intense. It's loud. It's loud. From Best the Best Western, the SBC middle school I went to simulated a Columbine shooting in the middle of a chapel service. That was 15 years ago. I thought we'd be past that. Wow.
- [52:41]
A
Oh my gosh.
- [52:41]
B
That's wild. Well, let's try to move on from that one. Geez. From Pres. Bass or Bass. Is it bass? Pres Base. Seriously, My biggest problem is to praise the the Lord and pass the ammunition. What are they teaching their kids? Yeah, 100.
- [52:55]
A
It's possible that whoever posted that was what? Who put that caption?
- [52:58]
B
It could be.
- [52:59]
A
Yeah.
- [53:00]
B
And then from Pres Base again, they've forgotten all about Bible passages of beating swords into plowshares. Talking about missing the point 100%. Hi, my name is Angie. I live in southern New Hampshire and I am a monthly donor to the New Evangelicals. I decided to donate because I've experienced the wonderfully supportive TNE Facebook community. I have been deconstructing and decolonizing my faith and it's been a tremendously lonely journey because I don't have anyone else to talk to about this. When I joined the TNE Facebook group, I felt so welcomed and included and I have thought many times I have found my people and this just feels wonderful. We have all had different experiences with evangelicalism. We are all at different stages in examining our faith traditions. Everyone in the group doesn't share the same spirituality, but the thing that we do share is that we are of one mind and being supportive of each other. I believe in the work that TNE is doing. I want others to experience this too. Thanks so much.
- [54:21]
A
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Shop Skinny Pop now. All right, cool. Shall we do our final segment?
- [55:22]
A
We. Shall we? Shall we, Christian.
- [55:31]
B
Okay, I gotta. I gotta grab it. I have it. I just forgot to drop it into rookie mistake. I know it's gonna autoplay too, because my system is weird like that. Okay, here we go. So we're. Yeah.
- [55:46]
A
For those listening, this is happening on a plane.
- [55:49]
B
Yeah. I'm just gonna apply it. No context.
- [55:51]
A
Yeah.
- [55:51]
B
Here you go. Hey, everyone.
- [55:54]
A
Welcome to Miami. I just wanted to share real quick. The last time I was in Miami was a few years ago before I was saved by Jesus. And I used to, like, literally be, like, dead asleep, but I was in my sin, right? And so Jesus gave me new life three years ago. And. And Jesus died on the cross for all of your sins. And Rose on the third day said that you and I could have new life in that relationship with God.
- [56:13]
B
So we turn from your ways and
- [56:14]
A
receive that free gift is offered to you today. And so if you just want to repeat that after me, just say, jesus, I invite you into my heart and I give you my life. And I believe God will invade your heart with his love. And he wants you to be awake. It says in the word wake up, sleeper. So you will have new life and be born again. So bless you guys and be safe. Thank you so much. God bless you guys. Thank you.
- [56:36]
B
Oh, those are just so cringe.
- [56:42]
A
It's the filming of it. I think, for me, that. That. That makes it so ungenuine. Not genuine, right?
- [56:52]
B
Yeah. It's for the gram.
- [56:54]
A
Right.
- [56:56]
B
Oh, also, if this. Why. If this was a Muslim doing this, it'd be all over Christian nationalist social media as a sign of, you know, we're being invaded. This is horrible. This shouldn't be able to happen. Like, it's just. It's very frustrating. It's also very cringe. It's cringe.
- [57:18]
A
It is. It is cringe. But I understand, you know, if you believe that every person you come in contact with, if you don't tell them about Jesus and then they were to die, then their blood would be on your hands, which I grew up believing. And I understand that if you genuinely believe that you do feel this urgency to tell everybody that you meet about Jesus, to stand up on airplanes and do all that stuff. And so I can understand it from, like, that perspective, if you, like, genuinely are trying to save souls. But the part, to me that makes it so obviously not about that is her handing the phone to someone standing perfectly in the shot. Like, angle looking, she looks, then saying it and then posting it.
- [58:04]
B
Right? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know, April. I'm kind of. I think, because I just have deconstructed at this point so far the fact that you really think that what you have to say about someone's eternal destiny is so important and so true that it overwrites the beliefs of everyone else in that plane to the point where you have to tell them to forsake their own beliefs and to join yours. To me, is just so arrogant and ignorant and prideful. It just. I just have, like, no patience for it anymore. I have no patience for it. Zero, zilch. I mean, I'm with you. I was in that headspace where I was taught I had. First of all, I was a horrible proselytizer. I could never do it. I always felt so cringe doing things like this. But the few times that I tried to. You know, I understand. Right. Because you're right. You believe in that mindset that everyone who's not believing, like you, who's outside of Christ, is going to burn in hell forever. So the greatest gift you can give them is the gift of eternal life. I understand that. It's just so, like, when you really examine that belief, it's so wild, what you're actually claiming that out of all these billions of people and the other religious traditions and the way God could or couldn't move, you have hit the cosmological jackpot and have the secret of the universe that you know where everyone's going to go when they die based on the fact if they accept Christ into their heart the way that you think they need to. So you'll disrupt people getting off of a plane, hoping that at. In that moment, they believe you and forsake their own tradition for yours.
- [59:38]
A
There's also. I've seen a lot of these videos lately of people standing up on planes.
- [59:43]
B
So many, like, in the last year
- [59:45]
A
especially, I feel like there's been an uptick, almost like it's a trend or something. We also. We had. We played a video. I don't know. It was. It was in the weird Christian segment, a few. Sometime in the last year of someone doing this in Costco.
- [60:00]
B
Yes.
- [60:01]
A
You know, and then she kind of turned it into like, oh, they. They hate the name of Jesus. And that's why they asked her to leave.
- [60:07]
B
She was standing on. On a table.
- [60:10]
A
Right. I think a lot of them do it in the hopes that someone tells them to stop, because then it turns into a Christian persecution Story.
- [60:20]
B
Yes.
- [60:21]
A
And those go mega viral. And then you become a hero of the faith because you were bold for Christ and people didn't like it.
- [60:28]
B
Right.
- [60:30]
A
There's this especially, I think, in the wake of Charlie Kirk's murder and then Turning Point, really, trying to tell people, like, be bold and do. Like, it's like there be. I feel like people are trying to be obnoxious intentionally to get that pushback.
- [60:46]
B
Right. It would be like, I mean, look, if I was in a heavy metal band, which I used to be, and we set up at Costco and started playing and we got removed and we said, oh, look, Costco hates music. They kicked us out. It'd be so disingenuous because obviously we're playing. We're playing music in the wrong context. Like, the context is not what we're doing. Right? Yeah, same thing. Like, dude, say whatever you want outside. Don't go into a private business and start yelling about Jesus and then expect. And then act like you're being persecuted because people ask you to stop because they're here to shop. They're not here to hear you. They're here to shop and get some stuff and get out. Come on.
- [61:28]
A
Right? And, you know, like, all of these people would be so mad if they were in church and someone came into their church service and disrupted it, trying to, I don't know, sell granola bars.
- [61:42]
B
Something happened where a bunch of people interrupted a church service, and the Trump administration was like, this is all Christianity. And then, by the way, we have videos of Christians invading a progressive church service and disrupting it. And not a peep. Not a peep from those people. Not a peep. Yeah. So, anywho. Well, friends, listen, we're gonna. This is about an hour long. We're a little bit under time compared to our usual, but that's because it's a holiday weekend. I think we're all ready to kind of enjoy some time away. So we appreciate you all being here, as always. Remember, if you're looking for a better path forward in faith, check out the New Evangelicals, an amazing nonprofit that produces this show, doing amazing, amazing work. You can go to thenewevangelicals.com connect to get access to our free community space, free resources. It's all there. It's beautiful. So make sure to check that out.
- [62:30]
A
No, I think another super chat may have come in.
- [62:32]
B
Ah, well, we can't forget those.
- [62:34]
A
Cannot.
- [62:38]
B
Yes. Here you go.
- [62:40]
A
Joseph Compton. Stop it. Stop it. That's my answer. Thanks, Tim, for the Bridezilla video.
- [62:45]
B
Oh, I responded to that pastor who went after Ms. Rachel on my YouTube channel. I. I watched his whole sermon, which was. It was so bad. So I think that's what he's referring to, so you're absolutely welcome. I think that's all we got for now. How about you? Anything else?
- [62:58]
A
All right, well, no. Enjoy your time off.
- [63:02]
B
Yeah. Eat some hot dogs or something. I don't know.
- [63:04]
A
Yeah.
- [63:05]
B
Yeah. I'm Tim Whitaker.
- [63:06]
A
I'm April. Enjoy. See ya. Bye.