129. Pastor Defends Performing "Execution" in front of Kids

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Tim & April Show

Episode 129: Pastor Defends Performing "Execution" in front of Kids

Date: July 14, 2026
Hosts: Tim Whitaker and April Ajoy
Network: The New Evangelicals

Episode Overview

In this charged episode, Tim and April dive into a viral incident at Mount Olivet Baptist Church's Vacation Bible School in Lexington, Kentucky. This church staged a mock "execution" in front of children, with adults dressed in military uniforms pretending to shoot a man (meant to represent the devil) at the altar — to the cheers and shouts of kids. The controversy grew as the church's pastor posted a lengthy Facebook response defending the re-enactment. The hosts analyze the video, the pastor’s defense, and its implications for American evangelicalism, Christian nationalism, and the indoctrination of children.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Breakdown of the Viral Video (02:22–05:00)

• Visual Summary: Children watched adults in military garb "execute" a man in church; kids enthusiastically shouted “Take him out!” and “Blow him up!”.
• Immediate Host Reactions: Both Tim and April find it shocking, noting such violence is unusual for VBS, which is typically "benign, happy, pirate- or space-themed."
• April's Personal Experience: Notes VBS often included hellfire rhetoric, normalizing fear and control over children.

2. The Pastor’s Facebook Defense (06:19–16:13)

• Opening Tone: The pastor claims to be “befuddled” (06:39) by public outrage and accuses critics of "misinformation" (07:08), implying generational ignorance.
• Pastor’s Explanation: Asserts the skit simply depicts spiritual warfare — “the devil is the enemy,” not people. He describes the event as a “small part” of their program (08:44) and insists the church is a “happy place, a place where we hate sin, but we love the sinner.”
• “Commandos for Christ” Concept: For 32 years, they've staged these good vs. evil skits using military imagery — the “Gospel gun” (14:15). The hosts dryly critique such militant metaphors.
• Reflection on Addiction Ministry: The pastor references their addiction outreach to highlight the church’s positive contributions, a deflection tactic Tim and April identify as standard evangelical PR (“But look at the good we do!”—11:25).

3. Hosts’ Analysis:

• Militarization & Indoctrination:
  • Tim (10:23): “This is classic Christian nationalism theology 101... that the devil loves [out-groups], and God loves people like this pastor.”
  • April (16:54): Points to the "sneaky kind of violence" concealed by spiritual warfare language and militant slogans.
• Impact on Children: The visual violence, especially staged by "good guys" in U.S. military attire, conditions kids to not only accept but glorify American-style authoritarian violence in the name of faith (23:34, 24:09).
• Conflation of America and Christianity: Both note the normalization of associating the military and nationalism with spiritual virtue.

4. Critical Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Justification:

  "If I could kill the devil every day and raise him up and kill him again, I'd do it."
  — Pastor (15:36)

• Host Response:

  "This is a violent Christianity that's built upon the idea that the good guys with the guns have the right to inflict violence on others if they believe God gave them the green light."
  — Tim (24:13)

• On Indoctrination:

  "It’s called indoctrination, my guy. There’s just no way around that.”
  — Tim (25:35)

• On Redirection:

  “I think this is a perfect example of how, when evangelical churches are called out for harm, they immediately go to: 'but look at the good we’re doing.'”
  — April (11:24)

• Biting Satire:

  “You can't watch Ms. Rachel because she loves queer people. But you can watch us kill someone in the church building, right?"
  — Tim (28:05)

5. Christian Nationalism & Cultural Warfare (29:29–34:47)

• Direct Link to January 6th:
  April ties the normalization of spiritual/physical warfare against “enemies” to the rationale behind the Capitol riot:

  “That alone is how you get the January 6th insurrection.” (30:35)

• Dehumanization:
  Tim and April repeatedly point out that when enemies are always “the devil,” those identified as enemies—immigrants, liberals, LGBTQ people—are easily dehumanized.
• Excuses:
  Pastor: "If you ever hear that Mount Olivet Baptist Church has a VBS that’s for killing people, you heard it wrong…" (36:29)
  Tim: “We are spending seven minutes justifying a mock execution at a vacation Bible school.” (37:50)

6. Gender and Power Dynamics (47:26–49:22)

• Pastor brags: "Every little boy wants to be a commando for Jesus. Every little girl wants to marry him."
• April bristles: "They’ll show these kids a public execution but won't show a woman in leadership...a woman in leadership is of Satan."
• Grooming Accusation:
  Tim sharply notes the pastor’s odd comment about wanting little girls to call him “handsome” after watching an execution:

  “You don't think that's freaking grooming? You don't think that's hyper-sexualizing children?” (49:14)

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Significant Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment | |:-------------:|:------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:22–05:00 | Description and reaction to viral execution re-enactment | | 06:19–10:23 | Pastor’s initial Facebook defense and hosts’ critique | | 14:15 | "Gospel gun" and "Commandos for Christ" rhetoric | | 16:54 | Discussion of violent Christian nationalist language | | 23:34–24:09 | Impact on children: military imagery and indoctrination | | 29:29–34:47 | Linking demonization to national politics — January 6th, exclusion, etc. | | 37:02 | Reflecting on the pastor’s lengthy justification | | 47:26–49:22 | Gender roles and “grooming” in evangelical culture |

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Analysis of Broader Cultural Implications

Violent Spiritual Language as Social Control

The hosts argue the use of war metaphors (“commandos for Christ,” “gospel gun”) fuels a culture where violence against “the enemy” is normalized, starting at childhood. “Spiritual warfare” language blurs into political, social, and physical antagonism toward out-groups.

Indoctrination and Hypocrisy

April notes the hypocrisy: parents police modesty more strictly than violence. Tim adds that the “indoctrination” complaint conservatives lob at mainstream society is textbook projection, given episodes like this.

Christian Nationalism in Practice

The event and the pastor’s rhetoric are shown as clear fruit of Christian nationalism:

• Worship services are decked in American flags
• “Good guys” are U.S. military proxies
• The enemy—ambiguous or not—is always external, never internal.

Dehumanization and Othering

The repeated blurring of “devil” and “human adversary” lays groundwork for treating out-groups (queer folks, immigrants, liberals) as deserving of violence, even if only symbolically. The hosts stress that symbolic violence teaches and desensitizes children to real violence.

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Closing Reflections

April:
“It’s a textbook example of Christian nationalism, from the indoctrination and the violence to the way that they defend it, to the way that they talk about it and talk about other people. The conflation of America with the Bible and Christianity.” (57:31)

Tim:
“[This] is a violent Christianity... antithetical to the theology of Christ—an unconditional love for all... There it is.” (24:13, 57:52)

---

Key Takeaways

• VBS mock execution reflects and reinforces Christian nationalist, militaristic values.
• Spiritual warfare rhetoric masks real-life out-group dehumanization.
• Indoctrination—militant, gendered, nationalistic—happens early and explicitly.
• Defensive posturing and redirection (‘look at our addiction ministry!’) are used to sidestep criticism.
• The incident is not an aberration but symptomatic of broader evangelical patterns.

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Listeners seeking a faith community rooted in love, justice, and compassion are reminded that The New Evangelicals offers resources, support, and spaces for healthy Christian deconstruction and reconstruction—far from the toxic marriage of faith and violence examined in this episode.

Transcript

[April Lajoy]

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[April Lajoy]

The Tim and April show, where we unravel faith, politics and culture. Hi everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Tim and April Show. I'm April Lajoy.

[Tim Whitaker]

I'm Tim Whitaker.

[April Lajoy]

We've got a great show planned. What happened to my boss?

[Tim Whitaker]

I hit the wrong button. I don't know how that happened. There you go. You're back.

[April Lajoy]

Here I am back.

[Lululemon Advertiser]

I'm back.

[Tim Whitaker]

You saw nothing.

[April Lajoy]

Sorry, I felt nothing. Just moving around. Yeah. Welcome back. We are well into July and I don't know, we didn't plan any banter. I don't know what to banter about.

[Tim Whitaker]

We could banter about churches are in full vacation Bible school swing right now.

[April Lajoy]

That is true. Yeah. So last Thursday, two Thursdays ago, we played this video as. Because it was going viral then of this VBS in Lexington, Kentucky, so very close to where I live. And we'll play the whole thing again. But we kind of wanted to go a little deeper on this topic and specifically because I think it. It kind of shines a light on the more violent aspects of Christian nationalism while kind of pretending to not be violent, which, you know, we'll get into, but I think really does there. There's a lot more to talk about on a. On a larger, more generic scale when it comes to Christian nationalism and evangelicalism in America.

[Tim Whitaker]

I completely agree. So why don't we play first off if you're watching like and subscribe all the things you're listening on podcast. Thanks so much friends for being here. Let. Let's play the video that went viral again so we can remind everyone of what actually happened at this church. And then the pastor gave a seven minute long response to this video that we have. I have not watched in its entirety yet. Have you?

[April Lajoy]

I have. It's a doozy.

[Tim Whitaker]

Perfect. Perfect. So I will blind react while you react again. So. Okay, so here's the video. This is what went viral. Brace yourself, friends. It's pretty. It's well, interesting isn't the right word. It's pretty brutal. Here you go. So wild. Just in case people are listening on podcast, what you've heard is a bunch of children in a church and, and guys in military garb with guns have dragged a man dressed in black to the front of the altar. Then they shot him multiple times as he convulsed violently. As the children shouted, take him out, Blow him up. And now they're taking the lifeless body out the back door. That's where we're at in the video.

[Pastor (Mount Olivet Baptist Church)]

Yeah, You gotta love this. I've been thinking about this all day.

[Tim Whitaker]

They're waiting for something.

[Pastor (Mount Olivet Baptist Church)]

3, 4.

[April Lajoy]

Better be a loud bang cuz the kids are covering the ear.

[Tim Whitaker]

Six.

[Pastor (continuation of E's speech)]

What's that to six?

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh my gosh. So the video ends with a loud pop.

[April Lajoy]

So I don't know if that's the blow them up part.

[Tim Whitaker]

I, I take them out, blow them up. I don't know, it's violence. So yeah.

[April Lajoy]

And then the pastor, I don't know if you could hear, but he said, I've been waiting all day for this.

[Tim Whitaker]

All day, all day. This is at a vacation Bible school. Vacation Bible schools are usually pretty benign. They're usually happy pirate themed things, space themed events, depending on where you go. Well, at least in my experience, they were very benign. I mean, as we know, not all of them apparently, but for, I would say most people who have VBS memories, it was pretty standard church stuff.

[April Lajoy]

You know, I would say my VBS also included talks of hell and if you died, you burn alive. Yeah, you're VBS did, I'm pretty sure. Like I just, that was, that was a big part of all the children's church. I mean it was, it was not like detailed and graphic, but it was enough to be like, oh, I don't, I definitely don't want to burn in hell.

[Pastor (continuation of E's speech)]

Fair.

[Melinda Hale]

Fair.

[Tim Whitaker]

So this vacation Bible school has no problem grooming children into accepting gun violence right in front of them and thinking that it's actually a good thing because that's exactly what happened. So this clip went viral online and the pastor decided to go on Facebook and talk about it. And we're going to watch this pastor give his explanation for what we all witnessed and we'll see what he has to say.

[April Lajoy]

So, all right, let's see it.

[Tim Whitaker]

Buckle up, friends, here we go.

[Pastor (Mount Olivet Baptist Church)]

And a good day to you, my friends. And just a thought from the pastor study. I want to address this firestorm concerning the clip that's been sent, I guess everywhere. I'm Quite frankly, befudged. Befuddled.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay, we're off to a bad start. April, if that's the first thing out of your mouth, is that you're befuddled by why people are sending this clip around and they're all shocked by what they're witnessing. Children watching a live execution happen. That's okay, dude. Okay. You don't see the problem with that? All right.

[Melinda Hale]

Okay.

[Pastor (Mount Olivet Baptist Church)]

The misinformation out there is. It's sad, and I guess it's a part of what this generation has become. And.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, okay.

[April Lajoy]

I think the misinformation that he's talking about, and I don't know because he doesn't clarify, but I saw some people initially sharing it, saying that they were shooting an immigrant.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right. I did see that.

[April Lajoy]

So I would imagine that's the misinformation, because as you hear, he says that that character represents the devil.

[Tim Whitaker]

Also, though, notice how he goes. This generation, I guess how this. That's how it is with this generation. He just blames the whole.

[April Lajoy]

It's the typical, like, which generation is he talking?

[Tim Whitaker]

I hate to sound this way, but it's such a typical, like, boomer thing to say. Like, well, that generation just buil lies. It's like, didn't you. You're the generation who voted for Trump, like, in mass. I don't want to hear about lies and propaganda, but okay, anyway, not all boomers. Not all boomers.

[Pastor (continuation of E's speech)]

Not all.

[Pastor (Mount Olivet Baptist Church)]

Just most concerning the clip that has been shared, it was nothing more than a small part of our vacation Bible School for 32 years. Vacation Bible school. We have characters every year that represent good and right and go. And we have characters that represent evil and wrong and that which should be avoided. We every year, through skits and songs and games and just a lot of fun, we make church a fun place, a happy place, a place where we hate sin, but we love the sinner.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay. Nothing about this sounds fun so far.

[April Lajoy]

Watching people,

[Tim Whitaker]

right. Watching. Watching an execution happen on the altar steps doesn't sound like a good time. Bastard.

[April Lajoy]

No.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. Okay. Oh, okay. Yeah. Send your kids here. It's a load of fun. You can watch.

[April Lajoy]

Also, I just have to say this. He kind of defends it by, like, it was just a small part.

[Tim Whitaker]

A small part, like, of the whole week.

[April Lajoy]

But I don't know if you remember hearing, like, in youth group, the people.

[Tim Whitaker]

I know what you're going to say.

[April Lajoy]

Here's some brownies, right? And there's just a little bit of

[Tim Whitaker]

season a Little bit of poop. A little bit. Exactly.

[April Lajoy]

And it ruins the whole thing. So even if you don't sleep around, but you just do a little bit, it ruins the whole.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, right. It's like. Yeah, poop is like sin. You don't want any sin in your life because even a little bit contaminates the whole body. Right.

[Pastor (Mount Olivet Baptist Church)]

The whole thing.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah. Well, not. But not here. It was. Listen, the execution was a small part of our bbs.

[April Lajoy]

It was a little.

[Tim Whitaker]

Why are you so sad? It was a tiny bite. It was a tiny part.

[Melinda Hale]

Just.

[Tim Whitaker]

Tiny part.

[Pastor (Mount Olivet Baptist Church)]

A place where we exalt Jesus and we hate the devil. I think you'd be in agreement that we shouldn't love the devil. I think we're all in agreement that there's such a thing as spiritual warfare, a battle going on here. It is behind the scenes that we can't see with physical eyes.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, boy. This is classic Christian nationalism theology, like 101. There is a spiritual battle. We have to be on the side of God. We have to hate the enemy. We have to hate the devil. We have to go to war against the devil. And that usually is manifest in the liberals and the feminists, in the gays, in the immigrants, et cetera. Right. It just so happens that. That. That. That the devil loves those people and God loves people like this pastor. That's usually how it tends to go, but also the.

[April Lajoy]

Just the narcissism of. I think we all agree.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right, Right.

[April Lajoy]

Like, obviously,

[Tim Whitaker]

we all agree.

[April Lajoy]

Disagree with this.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, we all agree.

[Pastor (Mount Olivet Baptist Church)]

We here have a very serious addiction ministry. Have for years reaching those that have been broken by drugs, alcohol, some horrible addiction that's taken from them everything that's good.

[April Lajoy]

I have something to say.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah.

[April Lajoy]

This is a perfect example of how when evangelical churches are called out for some sort of harm or something bad or a pastor is called out, they immediately go to. But look at the good.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah.

[April Lajoy]

Look at the good we're doing. Look at all the good we do. Look at this. Don't. Don't worry about this tiny little thing.

[Tim Whitaker]

And do you think that this. This addiction recovery ministry has licensed counselors leading this thing? No, I wouldn't.

[April Lajoy]

I would be surprised if they would

[Tim Whitaker]

be stuck if they had real trained counselors running this addiction recovery ministry. I would be. I would. I would be absolutely floored. Because usually it's someone who has some kind of certificate from some evangelical institution that says you're somehow certified. Certified in some kind of thing, but there's actually nothing behind it besides a piece of paper that's how it usually tends to go anyway.

[April Lajoy]

Well, and, you know, to be fair, there are a lot of evangelical addiction recovery groups that do help people get off drugs and, you know, and break out of alcoholism. I just. I just think they make Jesus their new addiction or going to church. Look, in a lot of ways, I don't have.

[Tim Whitaker]

I could be making this up, but I'm pretty sure I watched a documentary or some study that showed a lot of these, like, evangelical ones are not nearly as effective as they present themselves to be. Which makes sense because you're right. They, they, they. It's kind of like the whole Christian therapy world, right? Where you don't really have, like, therapists or just counselors, and they're gonna give you Bible verses and tell you to read the Bible more and tell you to pray more and maybe a little bit of, like, modern psychology sprinkled in, but it's more about, you know, you trusting God. It doesn't really. It's not as effective as they make it seem it. Or as they make it out to be, right? Because they're just. I don't. I don't have the right words for it, but like you said, they're. They're just having you sub out one addiction for another. I just. I'm very jaded by this whole world in general. If people couldn't tell by now, I just find these things incredibly ineffective, broadly speaking. I'm not saying they haven't helped people, but I think that they're very ineffective

[Pastor (Mount Olivet Baptist Church)]

for them to come and we give them the truth that Jesus loves them, that the devil does hate them, they can be forgiven, can get a new life, can start over. And it's been one of the themes of our church. I think of how many times I've visited a jail, and I leave their heartbroken over what sin and Satan has done to that poor person. And pray that God, I pray they let you change their life. And every year for 32 years, we've had this evil against good in our vacation Bible school. The last several years, we've had the commandos for Christ commandos that has the gospel gun.

[Tim Whitaker]

The gospel gun. Has he read the words of Jesus, put the sword away, Peter. Like, there is no gospel sword.

[April Lajoy]

I. I also understand that there is a military use for the word commando, but I am much more familiar with the other use of the word commando. And commandos for Christ in that context is just really funny to me.

[Tim Whitaker]

Commandos for Christ with their gospel guns. Okay, like, what do you even say to this kind of stuff? Like, what do you even say? This guy, this pastor's worldview is that there are two deities at war in a spiritual realm, and that Satan is everywhere and also is defeated, but also is everywhere. And that his church and people like him are on the side of God and people not like him are on the side of Satan. And they're training kids with the God. With the Commandos for Christ and their gospel guns to kill the devil by. By recreating a real execution with human beings. And this pastor with a straight face is like, I'm not sure why. Why I'm. I'm befuddled by this reaction. I just. I can't fathom why people are so shocked and appalled by what we've done.

[April Lajoy]

Yeah, it's.

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It's.

[Tim Whitaker]

It's wild.

[Pastor (Mount Olivet Baptist Church)]

It's the answer for the devil, the gospel, and the word of God. It's the answer. No, the clip you saw was simply killing the devil. I'll be honest with you. If I could kill the devil every day and raise him up and kill him again, I'd do it.

[Tim Whitaker]

That's like, he's the one we hate.

[April Lajoy]

Why would you raise the devil back?

[Pastor (continuation of E's speech)]

Why?

[April Lajoy]

To kill him again? If you've killed him, like, let it.

[Tim Whitaker]

Great job. Why risk it?

[April Lajoy]

Psychopath behavior.

[Tim Whitaker]

Also, who. What. What really is the devil here? What is this man imagining? Is.

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Is it.

[Pastor (continuation of E's speech)]

Is it.

[Tim Whitaker]

Is it a being with a form? Is it an invisible spirit? Like, I. I'm trying to put. I'm trying to understand what he means by this language. Right? Because they had to use physical humans to reenact what he's talking about. Who is the devil here? Like, and where is the devil? And also, maybe it's not your job to defeat the devil. Maybe that's God's job one day. Maybe your job is to, I don't know, do the two greatest commandments, Love God with everything and love your neighbor as yourself. Maybe your greatest goal in life, Pastor, isn't to want to kill the devil. Just love Jesus and love your neighbor. Like, it's very simple. The violence.

[April Lajoy]

This is also, I think, a great example of the sneaky kind of violence of Christian nationalism because it hides in spiritual warfare language. It hides in, like, there's a ton of military militant language within evangelicalism. And it's, you know, be a warrior for Christ. You train up children, the indoctrination of children, and this is a perfect example of that. To go to their public schools that I remember being taught were Satan's playground, where you go to these schools to convert souls you are there. It's a battle for the soul. It's a battle you can't see, but you need to go in there and basically stand up for God. But. But it's also twisted into what this culture. Into this culture war. Right, Right. Standing up for God means demonizing all trans people. Standing up for God means you. You don't let people into our country that aren't from you. You hate Muslims. Like, and so you. You. You disguise it as, oh, we're just fighting the devil.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right.

[April Lajoy]

But there's never been a literal devil or demon that anyone has ever fought. It always ends up fighting human beings.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yep, Yep.

[Pastor (Mount Olivet Baptist Church)]

Human.

[April Lajoy]

And. And, yeah. And then. And you're dealing with people that see the devil in regular day humans and. And fellow image bearers. You see the devil everywhere.

[Tim Whitaker]

See it everywhere. Everywhere. I mean, we've covered so many examples. Right. Of the. I mean, back when I first started this work, it was Lil Nas in his demon shoes. That was a big thing.

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[Tim Whitaker]

Remember the innocent days. Yeah. And anyway, yes, you're exactly right. And it also trains children to have this attitude of, everyone's an enemy, everyone's a potential enemy for me to be on guard against other humans are dangerous because of the ideas that they hold or who they are inherently. Right. And when you do this from a young age and you normalize violence, I mean, for those kids, that image is seared into their memories.

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[Tim Whitaker]

Watching men with guns walk down the church aisle and kill what they're calling is the devil, but still another human pretending to be the devil. That image is in their heads. That's that. That forms what they think about when they think about the devil. Right, Right. So it's incredibly dangerous.

[Melinda Hale]

Hey, everyone, this is Melinda Hale, the executive director of the New Evangelicals. Listen. Every day we hear from people who feel isolated, disillusioned, and hurt by a version of Christianity that has been hijacked by politics and nationalism. And yet they still long for a faith that is rooted in love, justice, and compassion. And that's why the new evangelicals exist, because we believe there is a better path forward. We're creating resources, hosting conversations, and we're building communities for people who want to reclaim Christianity and stay rooted in the teachings of Jesus. But building a movement like this takes time. It takes energy, and it takes financial support. So if this podcast or our YouTube, our educational offerings or community space or anything that we've created has impacted you, would you consider becoming a donor? Even a gift of $5 makes a huge difference for small organizations. Like this. Your support helps us to continue empowering people to put their faith into action by rejecting Christian nationalism and to live in a way that shows people how to truly love our neighbors. Together. I know that we could build something beautiful. So visit thenuevangelicals.com support to give today. You can find the link right in our show Notes. Thank you for standing with us.

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[April Lajoy]

This would still be problematic because it's still very violent. But it would have been slightly better if the guy down there clearly looked like a devil.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right.

[April Lajoy]

Type of person, like was wearing horns at a minimum. You know what I mean? Like that just looked like a. A human being. Yeah, that regular person. And another example of the Christian nationalism is you had the good guys, the guys that were performing the public execution dressed like American military.

[Pastor (continuation of E's speech)]

Yep.

[April Lajoy]

So now those children who don't, who are very susceptible to these ideas and to being brainwashed because they are children, are now associating the American military as always being the good guys.

[Tim Whitaker]

That's right. And it's normalizing violence.

[April Lajoy]

Right.

[Tim Whitaker]

The good guys are the guys with the guns who are killing someone else. Talk about inverted. Right. In this scenario, the devil did nothing wrong. He was just dragged through and killed. And the good guys are the ones with the guns doing the killing. Which by the way, just to be clear, like it's completely antithetical to even the theology of Christ, which is an unconditional love for all things in all people. Right. In a hope that even Satan himself could be redeemed. I mean, there's a theology in Christian, in Christian history about that idea. Can the devil himself be redeemed? Is God's love big enough to even redeem the devil? And this is completely the opposite of that. This is a violent Christianity that's built upon. The good guys with the guns have the right to inflict violence on others if God, if they believe God has given them the green light to do so, you know, and it's really dangerous stuff. Really dangerous.

[Pastor (Mount Olivet Baptist Church)]

We are not allowed by God to hate anybody else, not even our enemies. And that's all that clip was.

[Pastor (continuation of E's speech)]

Now, you may not like how we did it.

[Pastor (Mount Olivet Baptist Church)]

You may not like we used those air rifles. They're basically paintball guns. And maybe you're right, maybe we're wrong. But understand, we're painting a real picture to kids visibly what's going on invisibly.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah. That's called indoctrination. My Guy. I mean, there's just no way around that. And notice how he says kind of like half hearted. Well, maybe you're right, maybe we're wrong. He doesn't really believe that. Like, there's no attitude of self reflecting here. There's no attitude of, you know, maybe we have to think about better ways to communicate this theology that we hold in a way that children can understand that isn't inherently violent. No, no, no. It is total defense. It is total guys. Of course we're gonna teach this. Like, this is true. This invisible battle that we believe is happening. It's not just an opinion. It is true. And we have an obligation to teach kids about the unseen realm this way. Yeah, just like the pompousness of this man is just. It's wild. Like, dude, you're defending kids watching execution in your church. Wow, dude, wow.

[April Lajoy]

But that's normal. Like, the idea, like the way that normalized even every Easter, the graphic nature of crucifixion scenes that are shown or described, like two children. And I know, like, that's a little bit different because it's in the Bible, but still, like, it's a very. They scream about the left indoctrinating their children while they're the ones that are actively indoctrinating children.

[Tim Whitaker]

Well, think about this too, right? Do you think that this pastor saw a young girl with a skirt above her knees? That he wouldn't say something? I doubt the church allows anything that they would consider immodest to be worn in the church. That's a hard line. Of course, women can't even show their shoulders. There's a good chance that's a thing for this man. But what kids can see, they can't see girl shoulders, but they can watch four men in military garb execute someone in front of the church stage altar. That's acceptable. It's just so. Inverted bodies are dangerous and you cannot look at them. But you can also watch these acts of violence because this is good and right and true and just.

[April Lajoy]

I know. I'm curious as I know it's a Baptist church. I'm wondering if they're.

[Tim Whitaker]

Is it Baptist?

[April Lajoy]

Yeah, it's Mount Olivet Baptist Church. I'm wondering if they're. If they are Southern Baptist, because if they are, then these kids could watch an execution, but not a woman preach.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right. That's what I'm saying. Right. You just think about all the things that they would not allow their kids to watch. I doubt this pastor would let their kids. His kids are whatever kids in his congregation. I doubt he would even endorse Ms. Rachel because she loves queer people. Right? You can't watch that person, but you can watch us kill someone in the church building, right? Okay, I'm gonna keep going while you're looking that up.

[April Lajoy]

Yes, please do.

[Pastor (Mount Olivet Baptist Church)]

And we use all week to teach them. Tell the truth, don't tell a lie. Work hard, don't be lazy. Clean up after yourself. Don't expect somebody else to do it. Love your mom and dad. Don't disobey them. Honor everybody. Love everybody. Love God, but hate sin because it'll hurt you. And hate the devil who tries to influence you to sin. That. That's basically what that skit was about. If you had been here.

[Tim Whitaker]

I don't know, man. There are other ways to communicate those kinds of things without killing someone on stage.

[Pastor (Mount Olivet Baptist Church)]

You saw the building up to that point. That boy, they had it coming to them. All week long, they'd been sowing mischief, and we'd be having a good time. And. And that's what the devil does, friend. He's trying to infiltrate our homes. He's trying to infiltrate our government. He's trying to infiltrate everything.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay? Our government. Oh, red flag. Go ahead, April. Go ahead.

[April Lajoy]

I was just gonna say, I. I don't know what he means by sowing mischief, but I don't think. Think that warrants an execution by firing.

[Tim Whitaker]

Like, what. So was there some person dressed up in a devil costume, wearing all black, like, causing little. Little problems throughout the week? And then that's his version of he had it coming to him. We drugged him out to the front, and four men unloaded, like, a hundred pretend bullets into him as he convulsed violently. He had it coming. Is that even. Like. Is that. Is that even a Christian ethic of redemption or of grace or of mercy? No, no. And notice how he said the government. There it is. It's only a matter of time. He ain't talking about, you know, like, the billionaire class pillaging the rest of America. He's talking about the libs. He's talking about the people. Yeah, he's talking about Democrats. He's talking about people who want to kill kids up until the point of birth. The people who are indoctrinating their. Our kids into the. Into the queer agenda. That's who he's talking about here.

[April Lajoy]

Well, and that alone, this is a great example of how you get the January 6th insurrection. You had a bunch of people that were convinced that the Democrats stole an election as led by Satan because they're Actually demon rats. And this group of people regularly, like, literally demonizes anybody who's not Republican 100. And so what they do then becomes something you have to fight, not only in the spiritual, but literally in the physical, too, because that's how January 6th happened.

[Tim Whitaker]

Because we're a Christian country. This is God's country. And the left wants to take God's country away from people like him, so they have to fight back to protect the country. That's.

[Carvana Advertiser]

That's.

[Tim Whitaker]

You're seeing how the logic manifests even in a children's program. They. It is infested from top to bottom, this kind of rhetoric. All right, let's keep hearing what he has to say.

[Pastor (Mount Olivet Baptist Church)]

He's a bad customer. And how this thing has gotten blown

[Pastor (continuation of E's speech)]

up to the point now people have

[Pastor (Mount Olivet Baptist Church)]

called me and said, preacher, they're saying this is killing people that don't believe like us. All I can say is, what. Where did that come from? It's a character called the devil.

[Tim Whitaker]

Well, look, here's what this pastor can't see. Whether he realizes it or not, he is part of a movement, a white evangelical movement that absolutely targets people who don't believe like them. This movement targets Muslims all the time. There's an apologetics industry that makes a lot of money and a lot of clicks off of attacking Muslims in Islam over and over again and calling it Satan's religion and demonic. I bet this pastor believes that. I bet this pastor, if you drill down, would say that. That Islam is a false demonic religion. I would bet a lot of money he believes that he's part of a movement that targets our queer neighbors, that targets people who are under the boot of Empire over and over again. And when people push back, that's what they're pushing back against. And what he'll say is. He'll say, but I would never do that. But you're part of a system. You probably voted for people that put those policies into place. So you actually do believe it. Even if you. Even if you yourself don't say it that bluntly. You believe in systems that do.

[Lululemon Advertiser]

Yeah, it's.

[Tim Whitaker]

It's so frustrating to watch him be so ignorant, but yet so confident.

[April Lajoy]

Well, and this is. This is the cop out, right? This is. Oh, this is classic. When you get pushback.

[Pastor (continuation of E's speech)]

Yep.

[April Lajoy]

Like in this case, you're showing violence to children. No, no, no. It was just violence against the devil. We would never harm another human being.

[Tim Whitaker]

No, we love.

[Carvana Advertiser]

Right.

[April Lajoy]

It's just against the devil. We. We're actually not violent people.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right.

[April Lajoy]

But again, like you said like we. We said earlier, you see the devil in human beings and then violence against those people. Because you're not seeing a human, you're seeing a demon or a devil.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right.

[April Lajoy]

That becomes justified.

[Tim Whitaker]

Exactly. By the way, if you're not violent people, you wouldn't use violent imagery. It's not that hard. Like I would. There are ways, April, for you and I to communicate to our kids things that we believe. And because we're not violent people, I would never use violence as a way to communicate that to him, to them. Does that make sense?

[April Lajoy]

Yes. It's also just so it's the antithesis of what Jesus said and taught on the earth. Like, if you read the Gospels, Jesus isn't like, y' all need to go out there and violently crush the devil.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right.

[April Lajoy]

Like, that's not the main thing. Right. The main thing is love your neighbor.

[Tim Whitaker]

That's it.

[April Lajoy]

Stop.

[Tim Whitaker]

Love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself are the two most important commandments. They don't include crushing the devil. Whatever you think the devil is, they don't include that.

[Melinda Hale]

Right.

[April Lajoy]

And even the whole idea of nationalism and that Christians need to be in power to have this Christian nation also is very antichrist. Because Jesus was arrested by the state, went willingly, and in fact, told Peter to lay down his weapon.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes.

[April Lajoy]

And let him go. He did not send his disciples to storm the capital of Rome.

[Tim Whitaker]

Are you sure? Sure you didn't do that?

[April Lajoy]

Yeah, pretty darn sure.

[Tim Whitaker]

All right, let's keep watching.

[Pastor (Mount Olivet Baptist Church)]

And if it's been misunderstood and if the Devil uses it to hurt somebody, I am so sad about that. That has not been the attention ever. But it's so odd to me, after 32 years of doing this, now this comes up. Somebody came and obviously videoed it. And what you saw, that little snippet, is not even close to what we're about.

[Tim Whitaker]

He blames the devil for everything.

[April Lajoy]

Yeah.

[Tim Whitaker]

It's everyone. It's the Devil's fault. It's not his fault.

[April Lajoy]

Exactly.

[Tim Whitaker]

He has no responsibility. Isn't it amazing how they go from. Well, as. As the lead pastor, I have to protect our flock from heretics, and then all of a sudden, it's, well, the Devil. Look, if the Devil used this in a way that we didn't intend, we're sorry. But it was the Devil who did this. It was the Devil who created the idea of, hey, let's have commandos for Christ execute a person on. On. On the stage in front of kids. Devil. Devil made me do it. Come on, dude, take some ownership here.

[April Lajoy]

It sounds to me like this. They've been doing similar things for 32 years and they just now got caught on video.

[Tim Whitaker]

Would it be bragging about that? My guy would not be bragging about that. Would not be bragging.

[April Lajoy]

Yikes.

[Pastor (Mount Olivet Baptist Church)]

To talk to somebody. Maybe it's been here now. I'm sure there's people who don't like me. And I'm sure there's people who don't like you either. And I'm sure there's people that's criticized me.

[Ryan Reynolds (Mint Mobile Advertiser)]

Me.

[Pastor (Mount Olivet Baptist Church)]

And I'm sure there's people that's criticized you. But I would ask you to maybe be just. And not try us and convict us without at least hearing what this thing's about. If you ever hear that Mount Olivet Baptist Church has a vacation Bible school that's for killing people. You heard it wrong or something's badly wrong.

[Tim Whitaker]

I can't believe he's spending almost seven minutes trying to defend this. It is indefensible.

[April Lajoy]

Yeah.

[Tim Whitaker]

Like, dude, how do you look at this with children in the room and go, you're just misunderstanding. We weren't killing a human. We were killing the devil. See, it's all good, guys. Just a misunderstanding, like. No.

[April Lajoy]

Very, very similar to how people today who get accused of being Christian nationalists for being Christian nationalists say, things will say, I'm not a Christian nationalist. I'm just standing up for biblical truth.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right. I'm not hateful. I'm just telling the truth.

[April Lajoy]

Right. I don't. I don't hate the queer person. I just hate their sin, their lifestyle.

[Tim Whitaker]

April. Their lifestyle. Right. I hate everything about who they are, but I don't hate them.

[April Lajoy]

Yeah. Fine line that they weave to justify awful things.

[Tim Whitaker]

Awful. We are spending seven minutes justifying a mock execution at a vacation Bible school

[April Lajoy]

in front of, like, five year old.

[Tim Whitaker]

How old are some of these kids?

[Gold Belly Advertiser]

I'm just.

[April Lajoy]

I don't know. They look young.

[Tim Whitaker]

There's a girl in the front. Where is she?

[April Lajoy]

I'll say. I have been to vacation Bible schools that are three to, like 11, three to 12.

[Tim Whitaker]

That girl on the right.

[April Lajoy]

Yeah.

[Tim Whitaker]

Looks like at least three. The girl who's being held by the older girl, gotta be maybe five. These are. And they're young.

[Ashley (TNE donor)]

All right.

[April Lajoy]

And here's the thing. A lot of those kids are too young to even get even. Even if they were clear, like, this represents the devil.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah.

[April Lajoy]

A lot of those kids are not going to get that. They're just going to see a guy getting shot.

[Tim Whitaker]

This girl Is smiling as this is happening. She's smiling. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. Talk about indoctrination.

[Pastor (Mount Olivet Baptist Church)]

Or that we are for hurting anyone that will not believe on Jesus or believe like us. You got to be kidding me. Make no mistake about it. I hate sin because what it does to the sinner, I will not hate sinners. Okay, dude, I'm a sinner saved by God's grace. And I thank God that we can give the kids a week of fun and joy and realness about really what's the real world now again? You may think we went over the top. You may think it was a little bit extreme.

[Tim Whitaker]

A little bit.

[Pastor (Mount Olivet Baptist Church)]

And maybe you're right. But don't you believe that the devil is really using extreme measures in this generation? The amount of evil and scams and sorry things that are happening to people that are innocent in many cases don't. People that are broken. Isn't that extreme? Friends, if it offended you, I'm sorry that it did. That was not the intention. But I just wanted to make a statement, and that's in this probably be the only statement I make about it. I may speak on it some on Wednesday night at Bible study. And God bless you. Just a thought from the pastor study.

[Tim Whitaker]

I. I just don't like this man at all. I. I just imagine him at like the dinner table with his kids arguing over things. You're just like, dad, like, you just don't know how to listen, to learn. All you can do is listen, to respond. That's all you're wired to do. You have a. You have the truth, people. Not like you do not. And it's your job to convince them. And here you are now defending commandos for Christ.

[April Lajoy]

Right? I'm sorry if you are offended.

[Gold Belly Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Tim Whitaker]

I'll tell you what, April. If my kid was in that vacation Bible school and I found out I go viral for a different kind of reason, I mean, I would be so. I'd be so angry. Not violently. I would be. I'd be so, like, verbally angry. Yeah, of course not. I would. I would give that pastor a piece of my freaking mind. A loud piece of my mind. Like, what the heck are you doing? How are parents not outraged that their kids watch that they're kids. They are children.

[April Lajoy]

Right. But part of the conditioning in that world is that violence against the devil is okay. And it's okay for kids to know that biblical truth.

[Tim Whitaker]

I'm trying to see if there is responses here on Facebook. Yeah. Someone wrote, I think the FBI owes you your hard Drives A long overdue visit since your sense of morality is so off. Wow. 311 comments. Wow. A lot of them anyway. Yeah, I don't know, dude.

[April Lajoy]

Well, it's the vicious cycle of indoctrination. Like obviously I don't know this pastor's heart. I don't know if he genuinely believes what he believes. I. My gut. Usually smaller time pastors like this do

[Tim Whitaker]

genuinely, because there's no money to be made. He's probably not rich, you know, and

[April Lajoy]

so you have indoctrinated children that become indoctrinated adults that then indoctrinate their children again. And it's just this vicious cycle and it doesn't negate the harm that is being done, but it does give reason for it. Like it helps us understand where they're coming from and not that that justifies it because, you know, good. And I think he probably has good intentions. I mean, I don't know. But a chunk of people in Christian nationalism. What is that?

[Tim Whitaker]

Sorry, I was looking. I found their live stream of their fourth of July service.

[April Lajoy]

Oh, I mean that is so Christian nationalist.

[Tim Whitaker]

This, this, this whole thing just screams Trump and maga.

[Lululemon Advertiser]

Oh, yeah.

[Tim Whitaker]

All the way.

[April Lajoy]

No, all the way.

[Tim Whitaker]

Here's the lead pastor who spoke.

[Pastor (Mount Olivet Baptist Church)]

Here he is preaching meal for the Wednesday night service. There's.

[Tim Whitaker]

He's wearing the American tie. Oh, this is.

[Pastor (continuation of E's speech)]

Yeah, yeah, right.

[Tim Whitaker]

Anyway, I, I'll go through this, but

[April Lajoy]

they, they probably the, the. Here's. I think one of the sadder and infuriating things about Christian nationalism, obviously the indoctrination of children is very sad because you have people that don't know better, but they mean. I think most people.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, wait, wait, wait. Sorry. He's talking about this. He's talking about this. Yes, I found it. Look at God. Listen to this.

[Pastor (continuation of E's speech)]

I apologize for defending doors there. And it's just totally upgraded.

[Tim Whitaker]

Give it a second. I backed up a little bit.

[Pastor (continuation of E's speech)]

It's amazing what God has done in this place. On the other side of the tracks, we've decided to hate sin, We've decided to love the sinner and we've decided to take the Bible admonition. And Jesus is the answer for both. He's the answer for sin and he's the answer for sinner. Always has been.

[Pastor (Mount Olivet Baptist Church)]

And we believe.

[Pastor (continuation of E's speech)]

Number three, there is a fight behind the scenes.

[Tim Whitaker]

He's just doubling down.

[Pastor (continuation of E's speech)]

The eye cannot see and it's called Satan. I'm never going to apologize for hating Satan. I'm not going to apologize for defending truth and right and people from the lies of Satan.

[Pastor (Mount Olivet Baptist Church)]

Somebody said to me, you went too far. Symbolizing good and evil, right and wrong

[Pastor (continuation of E's speech)]

in Jesus and his arch enemy, Satan.

[Tim Whitaker]

Sorry, this is not.

[April Lajoy]

It's like fine, we can hear it.

[Tim Whitaker]

You can?

[April Lajoy]

Okay, yeah.

[Pastor (Mount Olivet Baptist Church)]

You went too far. Symbolizing good and evil, right and wrong, and Jesus and his arch enemy Satan. In vacation Bible school, you went too far. The way we have and do things

[Pastor (continuation of E's speech)]

around here can improve. No question about it. How we operate can improve. For 32 years, we have had the most action packed vacation Bible school probably anywhere. It's unbelievable.

[Tim Whitaker]

Wow.

[Pastor (continuation of E's speech)]

Pastor, somebody said, a member that loves us. Pastor, maybe we went too far. For the sake of argument, I want

[Pastor (Mount Olivet Baptist Church)]

you to listen to me.

[Pastor (continuation of E's speech)]

For the sake of argument, let's say

[Pastor (Mount Olivet Baptist Church)]

we went too far.

[Pastor (continuation of E's speech)]

Don't miss this.

[Pastor (Mount Olivet Baptist Church)]

But we're going in the right direction.

[Pastor (continuation of E's speech)]

Okay?

[Tim Whitaker]

Wow.

[Pastor (continuation of E's speech)]

The right direction is hating sin. The right direction is loving sinners. The right direction is Jesus is the answer for both. And the right direction is there is an enemy that you're going to have to deal with in life. For the sake of argument, we went too far though.

[Pastor (Mount Olivet Baptist Church)]

We've been doing it 25 years, but we're going the right direction.

[Tim Whitaker]

Wow. Just 10 toes down.

[Pastor (continuation of E's speech)]

That's everything.

[Tim Whitaker]

10 toes down, you're going in the wrong direction.

[Pastor (continuation of E's speech)]

That's catastrophe. That's catastrophic.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes, sir.

[Pastor (continuation of E's speech)]

If you haven't noticed, we are in a warfare in America and it's a spiritual warfare. We're not going to make it about people. I'm not. I'm not going to make it about people. Now, God is my witness, I hate no one. I hate no one.

[Pastor (Mount Olivet Baptist Church)]

You can ask the people closest to me.

[Pastor (continuation of E's speech)]

I have never hated people. Have I ever gotten mad at people?

[Pastor (Mount Olivet Baptist Church)]

Oh, yes, I have.

[Tim Whitaker]

I'm waiting for the but you know the butt's coming.

[Pastor (continuation of E's speech)]

I got kids. You tell me you get mad at people too.

[Tim Whitaker]

Come on, get to the point.

[Pastor (continuation of E's speech)]

You ever disagree with anybody? I disagree with everybody. I mean, my flesh says my opinion, not your opinion. Yours is wrong, mine's right. That's what you are too. That's why we need Jesus to help us with our sin problem and the fact we're sinners and he saved us to change us and live above that mess. I don't have to hate anybody. In fact, I can't. My Lord will not let me.

[Pastor (Mount Olivet Baptist Church)]

I believe with all my heart

[Pastor (continuation of E's speech)]

that the commandos for Christ with the gospel

[Pastor (Mount Olivet Baptist Church)]

is the only answer.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh my God.

[Pastor (continuation of E's speech)]

Symbolically, to destroy the devil. It's so funny about the commandos for Christ. They come in every year and every

[Pastor (Mount Olivet Baptist Church)]

little boy wants to be a commando for Jesus.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, there you go.

[Pastor (continuation of E's speech)]

Every little girl wants to marry him.

[Tim Whitaker]

Look, April, I don't want to toot our own horn, but we have these people pinned down so well, because. Did we not just explain to you, like, how this is what they want children to be? This is the whole. Yes, yes, yes, yes. He wants boys to be a violent commando for Christ. He wants women to be attracted to that kind of man because that's the only kind of man that can save them from being a helpless little princess.

[April Lajoy]

Also not the point. But it pisses me off to no end that the girls couldn't want to be the commandos for Christ. And I think it's all problematic.

[Tim Whitaker]

That's a man's job, April. It's the man's job to kill Satan.

[April Lajoy]

They'll show these kids a public execution, but they won't show a woman in leadership. And if it's. If this is Southern Baptist, and I don't know if it is, but the Southern Baptist would literally say that a woman in leadership is of Satan.

[Tim Whitaker]

Wait, it gets worse. This gets worse, April. By the way, friends, this is all off the cuff. I. I found this while we're recording. Okay, so we're. This is now we're real blind. We're into no man's land. We're in no man's land, and every

[Pastor (Mount Olivet Baptist Church)]

little girl wants to marry him.

[Pastor (continuation of E's speech)]

We had a video of a few girls as the commandos for Christ were coming in, and one of the little

[Pastor (Mount Olivet Baptist Church)]

girls said, he's so handsome.

[Pastor (continuation of E's speech)]

Oh, they didn't say that about me.

[Tim Whitaker]

Wait, wait. One of the little girls said about an adult man with a gun, he's so handsome. And you don't think that's freaking grooming? You don't think that's hyper sexualizing children?

[April Lajoy]

Pastor, why does he care if a little girl is saying that about him or not? And I know it's a joke. I know, I know he's making a joke, right?

[Tim Whitaker]

But it's a bad joke. It's a. Dude. Think through the joke. You're. You're. You're. You're. What's funny about a little girl not calling you or you being upset that a little girl won't call you handsome? Where's the joke in that?

[Pastor (continuation of E's speech)]

That I'm now the toothless wonder? I guess we ought to make a deal with the devil. We'll stop if you will.

[Tim Whitaker]

This is so bad.

[Pastor (continuation of E's speech)]

Maybe we ought to draw up a contract with the devil. Listen, devil, we'll stop preaching against you. And preaching Christ, if you stop attacking us.

[Tim Whitaker]

There's the twist. Because no one's mad that he's preaching against the devil. We're mad because they put this reenactment of this reenaction. This reenactment. Sorry. In front of children where they watch very. Execute someone. Right. That's the problem. That's the problem, Pastor.

[April Lajoy]

Is that traumatizing to children, but it's also desensitizes them.

[Tim Whitaker]

Totally.

[April Lajoy]

Violence.

[Tim Whitaker]

Totally. Totally. We'll give something. We'll do like, another minute or so.

[Pastor (continuation of E's speech)]

Nobody makes a deal with the devil. And I'm not poking at anybody, but it's as if the average church has made a deal with the devil. We will not get real hard on sin if you just kind of leave us alone. Every church used to call it out, didn't they? They called out wrong versus right. They called out evil versus good. And Jesus was the epitome of good. It wasn't the preacher. It wasn't the people in the pew. It was Jesus Christ. Hey, he's our hero.

[Tim Whitaker]

Look, I shouldn't say something very clearly. That is probably obvious here, but when he says sin, he's not talking about, like, white supremacy. Yeah. Or greed or capitalism or bombing kids in Iran or the genocide in power. He's talking about gay sex.

[April Lajoy]

Yeah.

[Tim Whitaker]

He's talking about being pro choice. He's talking about the fact that we have immigrants in this country.

[April Lajoy]

Right.

[Tim Whitaker]

And to be clear, if this pastor read the words and teachings of Jesus, he wouldn't have those views. Because Jesus never approached abortion, never talks about homosexuality, and tells people to welcome the stranger.

[April Lajoy]

Yeah, just.

[Tim Whitaker]

I just need to say that, like,

[April Lajoy]

I would bet money he's never called out Donald Trump.

[Tim Whitaker]

I would. Look, dude.

[April Lajoy]

Predatory behavior.

[Tim Whitaker]

Guys. This is a great example of, like, just the. And by the way, even before I deconstructed, I had this view that the American church was idolatrous when it came to America. Look at this stage. Usa. On the top left, there's the banner, free banner. On the right says Brave American flag. On the top right, the pastor is wearing an American flag. Who's his allegiance to? There's not even a cross up here in this shot anyway. Oh, sorry. In the podium, you're right. There's a small cross. I apologize. There's no Christian flag. It's clear where their allegiance lies.

[April Lajoy]

I feel like in the widescreen there was a Christian flag when it was further out. But regardless, you're right.

[Tim Whitaker]

Don't fact check me, April. I'm just kidding. All right, let's go. 30 more seconds.

[Pastor (continuation of E's speech)]

He's our. He is our pattern. He is the one that we're trying to copy. Last time I checked, when he fasted and he'd prayed for 40 days and 40 nights, the devil comes to him and he shoots the word of God and he him.

[Tim Whitaker]

No. Okay?

[Pastor (continuation of E's speech)]

And through symbolism, that's all we've ever done.

[Tim Whitaker]

Sorry, that's not what. Jesus didn't shoot the word of God at him. Jesus quoted the Torah at him. Okay? He didn't shoot anything. He didn't shoot Satan. He didn't shoot scripture. He quoted the Torah. That is not the same thing as having four men in military garbage kill someone on your church stage. How do you not see that? How do you think you're being faithful to the teachings of Jesus with your whole chest and do that?

[April Lajoy]

Okay? If the version of their of the devil exists the way that they believe it, you would not kill him by a gun.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right? Right.

[April Lajoy]

Right.

[Tim Whitaker]

How would right.

[April Lajoy]

That's not how you deal teaching the kids the right thing, even in your own theology.

[Tim Whitaker]

If the word of God killed the devil, he'd be dead, wouldn't he?

[Pastor (continuation of E's speech)]

One would think, good.

[Tim Whitaker]

I'm no scholar. I'm probably a former homeschooler. But if the word of God killed the devil, wouldn't he be dead like 2000 years ago? Wouldn't he not exist anymore?

[Pastor (continuation of E's speech)]

Bible school shoot the word of God at the Devil. So misrepresented. But that's okay. That's what the devil does, I guess.

[Tim Whitaker]

Maybe now they're the devil.

[Pastor (continuation of E's speech)]

Deal with the devil. It'll make life comfortable.

[Tim Whitaker]

See, there's the sneaky correlation. Right? The devil misrepresents things. So people who misrepresented us are being used by the devil. So if we just made a deal, if we just capitulated to their outrage, we'd be making a deal with the devil.

[April Lajoy]

There's that persecution card. There it is. We're only being hated because we were being good Christians.

[Tim Whitaker]

That's right.

[Melinda Hale]

That's right.

[Tim Whitaker]

We're just standing firm. Right? Right. We're a bold church that will call out sin.

[Pastor (continuation of E's speech)]

Listen, we're Americans. We're children of God. We're going to have to get out of this idea that comfort means success. No one succeeded that that's been always comfortable.

[Tim Whitaker]

Wait. We're Americans for children of God. Wow.

[Pastor (continuation of E's speech)]

Dude.

[Tim Whitaker]

H. Are they one of the same here?

[April Lajoy]

I think so. I think so.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yikes.

[Pastor (continuation of E's speech)]

Go on a diet. See how comfortable that is. Start exercising. See how comfortable that is. If your marriage has been Broken for years, and you go ahead and start to fix it. See how comfortable that is. You that have gotten off of every kind of dope that there is, and whatever it is you got, it wasn't comfortable. We have folks that come in that are. That are handicapped with addictions, and they're welcome, and they come broken and beaten and unchurched. We had a period now, and it's doing a lot better. We had a period that bringing in and you're here today, and they would just leave in and out of the service. All right, that guy's nervous.

[Pastor (Mount Olivet Baptist Church)]

But if you knew what was going

[Pastor (continuation of E's speech)]

on in them, if you knew the anxiety that's going on in them, the hurt, the fear that they're being judged

[Pastor (Mount Olivet Baptist Church)]

and we don't even know them.

[Pastor (continuation of E's speech)]

We've been patient. We decided we're going to love them.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay. I think she'd go on to some examples now, but. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. Doubling down, Doubling down.

[April Lajoy]

I love how too in the video, he's like, this will be the only thing I say on this topic. I might talk about it Wednesday night Bible study.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right.

[April Lajoy]

Right here he is like, 4th of

[Tim Whitaker]

July,

[April Lajoy]

by the way. This is gonna be the story that he talks about probably for the rest of his life.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, this is just the one time

[April Lajoy]

that he went viral spiral because Satan misused what he did.

[Tim Whitaker]

And you know what he witnessed? He witnessed how. How depraved this generation is. You know, the outrage, the hate, the lies that were thrown their way. It's everyone else's fault. They were the beacon. They were the lighthouse in the storm.

[April Lajoy]

I need to do a. I want to do a spoof. I think I've got.

[Tim Whitaker]

I can tell your. Your wheels are tight.

[April Lajoy]

My brain's like.

[Tim Whitaker]

Anyway, friends, well, we wanted to respond to that and kind of give you the full picture here because it's never just the clip. I mean, the clip went viral, which is great, but it's what's underneath of it. And it's like the fallout afterwards that really exposes how this mindset works and how they justify exposing children to such gratuitous violence and then doubling down 10 toes.

[Ashley (TNE donor)]

Yeah.

[April Lajoy]

You know, I mean, honestly, it's a textbook example of Christian nationalism, from the indoctrination and the violence to the way that they defend it, to the way that they talk about it to talk about other people. The conflation of America with the Bible and Christianity.

[Tim Whitaker]

Like, Yep, there it is.

[April Lajoy]

Wow.

[Tim Whitaker]

There it is. Anyway, friends, hope you enjoyed. I maybe enjoyed.

[April Lajoy]

Enjoy is a strong word.

[Tim Whitaker]

Hopefully you enjoyed our commentary. You enjoy our commentary. So we go live every Thursday at 12 o' clock Eastern. We are taking the month of August off, but we have a pretty cool surprise for you all, I think. I think you'll enjoy what we're cooking up to kind of hold you over. But we will be off the entire month of August, the Tim April show, both for Tuesday and Thursday episodes. But we might have a fill in or something like that.

[Pastor (continuation of E's speech)]

We'll see.

[Tim Whitaker]

We'll see how it works.

[April Lajoy]

There will still be content.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes. Good way of putting it, April. There'll be content. All right. Well, in the meantime, we will see you this Thursday, 12 o' clock Eastern. Thank you for being here. I am Tim Whitaker.

[April Lajoy]

And I'm April. Enjoy.

[Tim Whitaker]

See ya.

[April Lajoy]

Bye.