Podcast Summary: The Tim & April Show
Episode 13: Exposing the Christian Nationalist Network Fueling Trump
Release Date: May 5, 2025

Introduction

In Episode 13 of The Tim & April Show, hosted by The New Evangelicals, Timothy and April delve deep into the intricate web of Christian Nationalism, focusing specifically on the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) and its significant role in shaping the political landscape surrounding Donald Trump. Bringing expert insight to the conversation, they welcome Matt Taylor, a senior Christian scholar and author of The Violent Take it by Force, to unravel the complexities of the independent charismatic world and its influence on contemporary politics.

Understanding Christian Nationalism

Timothy begins the discussion by providing context on their ongoing series exploring Christian Nationalism. He references previous episodes, noting their comprehensive coverage of topics ranging from general overviews to specific figures like Paula White. This episode marks their first collaboration with a guest expert, emphasizing the depth and breadth of the subject matter.

Introducing Matt Taylor

At 01:12, Matt Taylor introduces himself as a senior scholar at the Institute for Islamic, Christian, and Jewish Studies. With a PhD from Georgetown and a master’s from Fuller Seminary, Taylor specializes in interfaith dialogue, religious bias, anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, and notably, Christian nationalism. His extensive experience is evident as he references his book, The Violent Take it by Force, which Timothy cites frequently in their discussions.

Matt Taylor:
"I’ve been involved in interfaith dialogue for about seven years, focusing on religious biases including Christian nationalism. My book delves into how the new Apostolic Reformation intersects with Fuller Seminary and broader charismatic movements."
(01:47)

Defining the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR)

April raises a crucial question about the origins and definitions of the New Apostolic Reformation, seeking clarity for listeners unfamiliar with the term.

Matt Taylor:
"The term 'New Apostolic Reformation' was coined in 1996 by C. Peter Wagner, a Fuller Theological Seminary professor. Wagner believed that the future growth of global Christianity would stem from non-denominational governance combined with charismatic spirituality. This led to the emergence of modern-day apostles and prophets who engage in spiritual warfare to conquer societies in the name of Jesus."
(05:38)

He elaborates that while the seeds of NAR can be traced back to the 1950s, it was Wagner’s vision that crystallized the movement, focusing on revival, reformation, and the establishment of Christian-centric societies globally.

The Seven Mountain Mandate and Its Impact

At 29:52, Matt discusses the pivotal role of Lance Wallnow and the Seven Mountain Mandate in radicalizing the NAR. Originally conceived by Bill Bright and Lauren Cunningham in the 1970s as non-directional "seven spheres," Wallnow redefined them as "seven mountains" with directional influence, emphasizing the acquisition of power across key societal sectors: government, religion, family, education, media, arts and entertainment, and business and commerce.

Matt Taylor:
"Lance Wallnow transformed the concept from spheres of influence to mountains that could be dominated, providing a clear strategy for Christian supremacy across society. This framework underpins many current political endeavors, including school board takeovers and the mobilization of support for Trump."
(35:04)

This shift from influence to dominion fueled the melding of charismatic prophecy with political ambition, positioning Donald Trump as a divinely anointed leader capable of executing this expansive agenda.

NAR’s Influence on Donald Trump’s Rise

Matt Taylor details how the NAR networks became instrumental in endorsing and supporting Donald Trump, viewing him as a prophetic figure aligned with their vision of Christian dominion.

Matt Taylor:
"After Sarah Palin’s vice-presidential run in 2008, the NAR was deeply entrenched in Republican circles. When Trump emerged, they were primed to embrace him as anointed by God, viewing his ascent as a fulfillment of their prophetic narratives."
(30:11)

He emphasizes that NAR leaders, many emerging from Wagner’s mentorship, have seamlessly integrated their theological frameworks with political strategies, thereby cementing Trump’s position within their spiritual and political paradigms.

Key Figures in the New Apostolic Reformation

The conversation highlights prominent NAR leaders who have significantly influenced both religious and political spheres:

• Lance Wallnow: Architect of the Seven Mountain Mandate, a central figure in Christian Trumpism.
• Cindy Jacobs: A leading prophet within NAR circles.
• Cheon Ho-son: Positioned as a charismatic leader entwining NAR with militia movements.
• Guillermo Maldonado, Mario Bromnik, Jim Garlow: Influential advisors within Trump’s inner circles, bridging NAR ideologies with political actions.

Matt Taylor:
"These leaders have become central figures in both charismatic media and political advisory roles, effectively merging spiritual authority with political influence to support Trump’s agenda."
(46:40)

Intersection with Other Charismatic Movements

Matt Taylor draws parallels between NAR and other charismatic movements, such as Bethel and the International House of Prayer, illustrating the fluid and interconnected nature of these networks.

Matt Taylor:
"While Bethel and similar movements operate independently, they often overlap with NAR through shared leaders and collaborative initiatives, fostering a cohesive yet fragmented charismatic landscape."
(53:11)

This fluidity contributes to the broad and sometimes indistinct boundaries within the charismatic and evangelical Christian communities.

Gender and Racial Dynamics within NAR

The episode explores the complex dynamics of gender and race within the NAR, noting its relative openness to female leaders juxtaposed with traditional gender roles:

April:
"NAR spaces often embrace female leadership through roles such as apostles and prophets, yet simultaneously enforce conventional gender norms, as seen with figures like Paula White who navigate both empowerment and submission."
(64:26)

Additionally, the multi-ethnic composition of NAR contrasts with the predominantly white Christian Nationalist movement, although NAR maintains alliances with white supremacist groups, reflecting intricate racial dynamics.

Theological Implications and Political Ramifications

Matt Taylor critiques the theological underpinnings that allow figures like Donald Trump to be perceived as divinely chosen despite contradictions with core Christian values.

Matt Taylor:
"By elevating Trump to a messianic status through prophetic narratives, NAR leaders create a deific political figure whose actions are justified by divine will, undermining democratic accountability and fostering anti-democratic sentiments."
(74:08)

He warns of the dangerous blend of spiritual warfare and political ambition, where theological narratives are exploited to legitimize political power, leading to profound ethical and societal repercussions.

Personal Reflections and Ethical Considerations

As the conversation concludes, Timothy and April reflect on their personal experiences within evangelical circles, acknowledging the allure and dangers of charismatic movements.

Timothy:
"This episode underscores the necessity for self-reflection and awareness of our own biases. It’s crucial to recognize how theological interpretations can manipulate political realities, leading to cognitive dissonance and harmful justifications."
(75:46)

Matt Taylor:
"Understanding the human psychology and historical context behind movements like NAR is essential. These leaders are skilled propagandists who have successfully intertwined spirituality with politics, making it imperative to critically evaluate and counteract their influence."
(76:29)

Conclusion

Episode 13 of The Tim & April Show provides a comprehensive exploration of the New Apostolic Reformation and its pivotal role in shaping Christian Nationalism and Donald Trump's political ascendancy. Through insightful analysis and expert commentary, Matthew Taylor elucidates the complex interplay between charismatic theology, political ambition, and societal influence, offering listeners a nuanced understanding of the forces driving contemporary American politics.

Notable Quotes:

• Matt Taylor (29:52):
  "Lance Wallnow transformed the concept from spheres of influence to mountains that could be dominated, providing a clear strategy for Christian supremacy across society."

• April (21:31):
  "It's a very highly emotional environment, and you can take that as almost proof that what you're experiencing is of God, and then it just keeps you in it for longer."

• Matt Taylor (74:08):
  "We are using Christian theology as the foundation for a mythos around Trump, creating a cult of personality that rationalizes his actions regardless of their ethical implications."

• Matt Taylor (77:14):
  "These leaders have been trained to give people powerful spiritual experiences and to rationalize their actions as conduits of God's will, effectively merging spirituality with political influence."

This episode serves as a crucial resource for understanding the deep-seated theological and cultural factors contributing to the rise of Christian Nationalism and its profound impact on the political fabric of the United States.