130. You Cannot Follow Jesus and Support ICE. Full Stop

Summary

The Tim & April Show — Episode 130

“You Cannot Follow Jesus and Support ICE. Full Stop.”

Podcast: The Tim & April Show
Date: July 17, 2026
Host: Tim Whitaker & April Ajoy
Organization: The New Evangelicals

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deeply into the moral, ethical, and faith-driven opposition to the practices and existence of ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement), particularly in light of two recent deadly shootings involving ICE agents. Tim and April frame their discussion around a Christian worldview rooted in love, justice, and inclusivity—explicitly rejecting Christian nationalism and its influence on American policy and rhetoric.

The hosts also reflect on contemporary culture, briefly discuss TV shows, and respond to listener comments, but the bulk of the podcast is a focused, passionate critique of ICE, its violence, and the wider context of anti-immigrant, racist, and Islamophobic sentiment prevalent in segments of American Christianity and politics.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Cultural Opener and TV Chat

(00:44–06:00)

• Tim and April open the show with their trademark banter and authenticity.
• Small talk about TV shows (“Silo,” “House of the Dragon,” “Lost,” and “The Pit”) sets a casual tone and builds rapport.

“Part of the charm of us, April, is that we're—we don't pretend that we're different people on camera.” — Tim, 01:18

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2. Hate Crimes & American Islamophobia

(06:00–14:36)

• They spotlight a recent anti-Muslim hate crime in Utah, where a Trump-supporting man stabbed a Muslim man multiple times after asking victims’ faith in a shopping mall.
• Tim links this act directly to right-wing, anti-Muslim rhetoric, emphasizing the real-world violence such language fosters.

“If you call people invaders… if someone takes you seriously and sees those people as invaders, it's only a matter of time before violence is enacted upon them. Hard stop.” — Tim, 07:48

• April names the overwhelming hateful responses (often from self-proclaimed Christians) when she posts about ICE on social media.

“Anytime I post about ICE or just mention, you know, ICE killed another person or harmed another person, I immediately have hundreds of comments replying... the most racist, xenophobic, hateful stuff against immigrants.” — April, 09:02

• The hosts note the hypocrisy: violence by Christians is downplayed, but if the roles were reversed—if a Muslim attacked a Christian—it would be called terrorism and national news.

“We have a whole different set of standards for different people based on their skin color, where they're from or what they believe.” — Tim, 12:48

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3. ICE Killings: Houston & Maine

(15:10–44:18)

• Recent Killings:

  • Lorenzo Salgado Araujo (Houston): Shot by ICE agents during a traffic stop in unmarked cars, with ICE claiming he tried to ram them. Eyewitnesses contradict; family insists he tried to flee unidentified masked men.
  • John Sebastian Guerrero (Maine): Colombian father, also shot by ICE; initially accused of trying to ram officers, but video disproved ICE’s claim.

• Themes:

  • Pattern of ICE agents not wearing body cams, lack of accountability, and use of “self-defense” justifications.
  • Both men were either not the intended targets or had legal status—undercutting the “just following the law” defense.
  • Rhetoric and practices around ICE are inherently racist and xenophobic, disproportionately targeting “brown-skinned immigrants.”

“Why would we ever trust the government's narrative… when we know they are lying about almost everything?” — Tim, 16:18

• ICE is massively funded, with more money authorized through reconciliation bills—without oversight or transparency.

“ICE is funded through Trump's term... and we don’t even know how that money's being spent.” — Tim, 17:08

• Tim gives statistics: ICE arrests have skyrocketed under Trump (over 1200/day); most arrestees have no criminal record or only misdemeanors.
• Detention center conditions are inhumane; hunger strikes and wrongful detentions (even of US citizens) are not uncommon.

Notable Quote:

“People are entitled to due process. That's not even a controversial thing… You're not worthy of being shot dead for not obeying an officer's order.” — Tim, 20:45

• The hosts play a moving audio statement from Araujo’s son humanizing his father and decrying the injustice.

  • [30:40] Quote:

    “He did not deserve to die ... He deserved to live a quiet life as Lorenzo Salgado Araujo, a husband, a father, and a job creator for dozens of men who also wanted the American dream.”

• April and Tim emphasize: This violence isn’t about legality—it’s about preserving a “white Christian nation” (29:53).

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4. White Supremacy & Christian Nationalism’s Hypocrisy

(44:18–48:29)

• Trump’s and other politicians' statements are scathingly critiqued for showing zero remorse for those killed, only praising ICE’s actions.
• The point is made that in Christian nationalist frameworks, some bodies (white, Christian, male) are more valued than others.

“In white supremacy, some lives are more valuable than others... that's how it works.” — Tim, 44:18

• Discussion about how violence against people of color is ignored or justified by the Christian right, while deaths of oppressors like Lindsey Graham are mourned.

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5. Debunking Immigration Myths: The "Right Way"

(26:58–29:53)

• Tim tells the story of his friend Muhammad’s family, who have been in “pending” immigration status for a decade, with endless paperwork, no benefits, and under constant threat—demonstrating the myth of an easy “right way” to immigrate.
• Real people's lives, businesses, and families are caught in the crossfire of an unjust system.

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6. Gender & Military Hypocrisy – Pete Hegseth Segment

(50:54–55:26)

• The hosts discuss Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth’s initiative to introduce testosterone screenings and treatments for male soldiers.
• Point out the hypocrisy: gender-affirming care is demonized for trans people, but embraced when it aligns with conservative ideals of masculinity.

“These Alpha bros will do stuff like this, right? They're fine with gender-affirming care when it benefits them.” — Tim, 53:01

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7. Weird Christian Internet & Toxic Theology Spotlight

(56:33–62:43)

• Tim & April dissect a “weird” Christian video featuring a shirtless man claiming predestination means he and his wife can stand out in a lightning storm.
• They explicate the dangerous (and silly) logic of predestination as understood in Calvinist/evangelical circles (TULIP doctrine).
• The lack of accountability bred by certain theological positions is highlighted as not only illogical but irresponsible.
• April shares her experience sparring online with Brian Sauvé, a Christian nationalist who wrote a misogynistic song about “fixing women.”

“Educated women who learn how to think for themselves are not going to submit to idiotic men.” — April, 68:51

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Hate Crimes and Rhetoric:

  “Words do have consequences, rhetoric does have consequences. And it is really sad that we're living in a country where this kind of stuff is happening and I would also argue goes underreported.” — Tim, 07:48

• On ICE Killings:

  “How do you justify federal armed agents... shooting someone through the car windshield multiple times after he was targeted incorrectly and was a legal citizen and was not being aggressive? How do we tolerate this?” — Tim, 38:02

• On Immigration Appeals:

  “Muhammad and his family are a great example of... they are trying to go through the process the right way, but they are facing all kinds of obstacles, not because of them, but because of how our immigration system is set up.” — Tim, 28:00

• On White Supremacy and Christian Hypocrisy:

  “The white supremacy that is rooted in this xenophobia and this anti-immigration rhetoric is... it's been there since the beginning.” — April, 30:07

• On Evangelical Support for ICE:

  “You cannot follow Jesus and support ICE. Full stop.” — (Episode Title, Reflected Tone Throughout)

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Key Segment Timestamps

• 06:00 – News of anti-Muslim hate crime in Utah, analysis of Christian right rhetoric
• 15:10 – ICE shootings breakdown: Houston & Maine cases
• 20:19 – Myths about “following the law,” legal status, and due process
• 25:31 – Conditions in ICE detention; policy stats and impacts
• 28:00 – Tim’s illustration: Muhammad’s family and the “right way” myth
• 30:40 – [CLIP] Lorenzo Salgado Araujo's son’s statement
• 33:40 – Superchat responses; community engagement
• 36:31 – Maine ICE shooting (Guerrero) details
• 41:10 – Impact on families: child witnesses father’s killing
• 50:54 – Military gender/health hypocrisy: Pete Hegseth segment
• 56:33 – “Weird Christian Internet”: Predestination, TULIP doctrine
• 63:06 – Brian Sauvé, misogyny, anti-education rhetoric

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Tone and Language

Tim and April maintain a conversational, authentic, sometimes humorous, yet passionate and often outraged tone. They speak directly to their listeners, especially engaging fellow Christians who feel alienated by the rise of Christian nationalism and its violence. The show is as much a space of catharsis and solidarity as it is critical, moral analysis.

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Summary Takeaway

This episode makes a clear, forceful argument: Supporting ICE’s current tactics and existence is incompatible with the teachings of Jesus. The hosts show, through personal stories, statistics, and recent tragedies, that ICE embodies a racist, xenophobic system justified and perpetuated by many in the Christian right. They urge listeners—especially people of faith—to reject this alignment, pursue justice, and advocate boldly for their marginalized neighbors.

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Further Resources

• TNE Connect: Free community space for support, learning, and activism (TheNewEvangelicals.com/connect)
• Book Recap and Free Classes: Visit TNE for updates
• Podcast Archive: Previous and future episodes tackle related intersections of faith, justice, and public policy

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(End of summary)

Transcript

[Announcer]

You're listening to a new evangelicals production.

[Tim Whitaker]

And we're live on Matchday as Doug reaches for a buffalo wing. He's got it. Oh, and he's gone for a can of Pepsi, too. What a finish. There's no doubt about it. It just tastes better. Matchdays deserve Pepsi.

[April Joy]

The Tim and April show, where we unravel FAI politics and culture. Hi, everybody. Happy Thursday.

[Tim Whitaker]

Wow, you sound so happy.

[April Joy]

Welcome to the Tim and April Show. I am April.

[Tim Whitaker]

I'm Tim

[April Joy]

of the Tim and April Show.

[Tim Whitaker]

We've been doing this for over almost two years now. We still can't get this intro thing right. We just can't do it.

[April Joy]

I think we can. I think there's been plenty of times where we got it right.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe you're right. Maybe you're right.

[April Joy]

It is not the most polished. I mean, I feel like it would lose some of its. Yeah, it would lose its charm and spark if we were just came out super, like, polished and professed.

[Tim Whitaker]

Part of the charm of us, April, is that we're. We don't pretend that we're different people on camera. When we end this dream, we keep talking like how we talk, you know, Sometimes we make mistakes. Sometimes things get a little awkward. Sometimes things happen. But that's just part of. That's who we are, folks. It's just how it goes.

[April Joy]

Yeah, you get what you get, you

[Tim Whitaker]

get what you pay for.

[April Joy]

And you don't throw a fit.

[Guest or Listener]

Okay.

[April Joy]

Actually, plenty of people do throw fits, so that's not accurate. That's okay.

[Tim Whitaker]

I have a new show I've been binging because ever since I started Widow's Bay, thanks to you, me and Sarah have been looking for new shows to kind of get into. It's like, fun for us to look forward to, you know, kids are asleep. Let's watch another episode We've been watching. And no spoilers, friends. We've been watching Silo, that's our newest one, and we blew through the first season. We're somewhere in the second season and we are definitely enjoying it. We're enjoying it. It's good.

[April Joy]

I'm pretty sure I told you to watch Silo like you probably did a while ago.

[Tim Whitaker]

Well, Beecher is a film person, so of course, you know all the good shows before I do.

[April Joy]

You know, season one of Silo's really great. I loved season one. Season two.

[Tim Whitaker]

There are some storylines I'm not as invested in compared to others at this point, but I'm still watching. There are questions that I need answered, so I keep watching. Okay, we have to know more about what's going on here.

[April Joy]

Well, season three is currently airing and so we are watching season three of Silent.

[Tim Whitaker]

Are you happy so far? So far?

[April Joy]

I guess. I mean, I don't know. I just want to see where it's going to go. I do think one of the best parts of it was the mystery that that is solved in season one. For the most part, yeah. I mean, there's still some mystery, but I. It kind of lost a little luster after you figure it out.

[Tim Whitaker]

I thought the first two episodes of Silo Season 1 were like, so good. I was like, I have. I'm so curious. And then they kind of like lost like the momentum a little bit, like in the middle, but they found it towards the end. And I kind of feel that again with season two where it's like, okay, guys, you started off on this notion of like, what is the Silo? No one knows what it is. And you gave us enough where I'm like, I'm hooked. I need to know what it is. And you kind of, you know, you're not really getting there as fast as I want you to anyway. That's as much as I'll say. But I am enjoying it. Sarah and I are enjoying it, along with Cape Fear, of course, which will air a new episode tomorrow. So we're really invested in that as well.

[April Joy]

Oh, yeah, I haven't. Cape Fear started Cape Fear yet. My main show right now currently is House of the Dragon.

[Tim Whitaker]

Isn't that from that sinful show, Game of Thrones?

[April Joy]

It's a spin off of that sinful

[Tim Whitaker]

show, so it's probably even more sinful.

[April Joy]

I don't know if you could get more.

[Tim Whitaker]

Is it good?

[April Joy]

Yes. I mean, I really like it, but honestly, I would watch anything. Like, well made fantasy shows are by far my favorite.

[Tim Whitaker]

That's your jam genre.

[April Joy]

Yeah.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, interesting.

[April Joy]

Yeah.

[Tim Whitaker]

I'm not a big fantasy guy. I love like the futuristic mystery like Lost. I loved lost. I loved 24 as a kid, although might be problematic now, I don't know. But I like those kinds of shows, you know, those like. Yeah, that's just kind of me.

[April Joy]

Also loved Lost. I would literally record Lost on a VHS while I was at youth group. Like if I had to miss it because it would air on Wednesday nights when I was in high school and we would come home and then immediately watch it because we didn't have streaming and you couldn't. You couldn't like rewatch it. We didn't have a. What was it called when you would record dvr. Dvr. We didn't have dvr record it on a vhs because you could do that. But. Oh my gosh, it's so funny dating myself a bit.

[Tim Whitaker]

The finale of Lost. I downloaded it on my computer, on my MacBook Pro, through iTunes, because I was working. I used to install appliances and I watched it in the truck in between stops, and I was so disappointed with the series finale. I was like, I cannot believe I waited all that time for this ending. So I was still bitter over it. I want the world to know there's

[April Joy]

so many, so many mysteries that were never answered.

[Tim Whitaker]

That's what I'm saying. That's what annoys me. Like, you cannot give us mysteries and then not answer them. That's unfair to your viewers. Unfair.

[April Joy]

They, they were really. They. They really struggled with the writers strike that happened in the middle of. That's true.

[Guest or Listener]

That's true.

[April Joy]

Anyway.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, yeah, so. And you started the Pit, you said. You told me that offline.

[April Joy]

Yeah, we watched the first episode of the Pit last night.

[Tim Whitaker]

It's so good. It's so good.

[April Joy]

Yeah, I just. I'm really queasy.

[Tim Whitaker]

Me too.

[April Joy]

So, like the medical stuff, when they show the close ups, I'm like, oh,

[Tim Whitaker]

no, I'm queasy too. It's worth it. It's worth it. That's all I'll say about that. So, friends, if you're just joining in, welcome into this stream. I am Tim Whitaker. That's April Ojoy. We are. We are the Tim April show. We go 12 o' clock Eastern. If you're watching right now, can you please give this video a like. It would be so helpful to us if you just hit the like button. If you're watching on substack via our friends over at Lincoln Square Media. Hi, everyone. Thanks for joining in. If you can give us some hearts, it really helps us out. The T April show is made possible by the New Evangelicals, a nonprofit organization helping you find a better path forward in faith, run by Melinda Hale. There's an amazing community space called TNE Connect. It's really beautiful. It's totally free. Check it out. The newevangelicals.com connect. Okay, I think that the first thing we have to mention. Look, today's gonna be kind of a focused show. We're gonna talk a lot about ICE today. But before we do, I am. We are following the story of the man in Utah who was going around in a mall asking people if they're Muslim or not and then eventually stabbing Someone who was Muslim 15 times. I am. We are following this story. It is tragic, it is horrible. From what we know, I don't have confirmed reports of this, although I saw a picture. This was, this guy was a Trump supporter, which honestly is not shocking given all the rhetoric against Muslims that comes from the right wing world and media. But we are following that story. It is horrific, it's terrible. The person has survived, thankfully, and bystanders intervened and I probably saved his life. There is a video circulating on the Internet that we're not going to share here. You can find it if you want to, but this took place in Utah, I think two or three days ago from if, if I'm not mistaken. So, yeah, we're, we're following the story

[April Joy]

that's a direct result of all the

[Tim Whitaker]

Islamophobia direct that if you call people invaders, if you say that Muslims, you know, want to institute Sharia law, whatever you think that might mean that, that they hate America. And if someone takes you seriously and sees those people as invaders, it's a matter, it's only a matter of time before violence is enacted upon them. Hard stop. You know, like words do have consequences, rhetoric does have consequences. And it is really sad that we're living in a country where this kind of stuff is happening and I would also argue goes underreported. Underreported. I attended a couple months ago, there was a, like an event for Muslims in my state that my friend, our friend Qasem Rashid attended. So I went out to hang out with him and I met him and a bunch of people in the community and they had a seminar on the rise in hate crimes for different minority groups. And all the minority groups, Jews, Muslims, et cetera, they've all seen huge spikes in hate crimes in New Jersey, a very liberal state. So I can only imagine how much worse it is in more red, red centered states. So, yeah, but we are following it. We, we are, we'll keep you guys posted. But that, that is the thing that we're watching.

[April Joy]

And another thing that I've noticed, and I, I don't know if you've noticed this too, but we're, we're going to obviously talk about ICE and how they shot and killed two more people that in the last little over a week, um, anytime I post about ICE or just mentioned, you know, I skilled another person or harmed another person, I immediately have hundreds of comments replying to me saying the most racist, xenophobic, like, hateful stuff against immigrants. I don't know if it's Just bots or if people are genuinely just that awful towards immigrants, which I'm sure it's both, but it just seems like overwhelmingly, like any time I post about ice, it's always the usual, well, they should obey the law. Well, what do you get when you're a thug? Like, they're just like awful, truly terrible, hateful stuff. And it's just saddens me because a lot, a good chunk of them claim to be Christian, have like Bible verses in their bio.

[Tim Whitaker]

Look, even people create bots, right? Even, even if they were all bots, they're still made by humans. Someone thought it was a good idea to create a bot that did that, right? So the hate is still there, whether it's through a bot or a firsthand source. By the way, the man's name who's accused of doing this, his name is Peter Michael Larson. He told Utah police that he stabbed the Muslim man because of the man's faith and intended to kill him. So you can't be any clearer than that. Now, do we expect right wing media folks who are all concerned about religious freedom to talk about this story? No, they're not going to talk about it. It's going to go under the rug for them. You're not going to hear Ali Seki talk about it. Matt Walsh won't talk about it. So the same way that none of them talked about the killing of Melissa Hortman, who was killed by a Christian nationalist in Minnesota. Right, but you're absolutely right, April. I mean, I don't always know how to express like the reality to people that. Because you know what happens if you talk to a conservative Christian? They'll go, well, look, I agree this is bad, we shouldn't be a part of it. They kind of try to distance themselves from it, but the reality is the space that they occupy, this amount of hatred is not coming from atheists, it's not coming from leftists, it's coming from right wing Christianity in some way, shape or form or it's masquerading as that. I mean, how many people. And you get DMs, how many bad DMs do you get from men? You look at their bio and it's like, you know, I'm a Christian first, or some kind of Bible verse in their bio after they're saying the most heinous stuff. I had someone sent me an audio message calling me a pos, calling all of my family members promiscuous people. If you use a more intense slur for that. And on his Facebook profile. He's a real person. Was him kneeling at an altar. Come on. Like, this is what this world produces because you're afraid of everything. You're afraid of the Muslims, you're afraid of the immigrants. You vote for a regime that, that routinely denigrates those people. And then we're so. People are so shocked that a man took those words seriously and tried to kill a Muslim man specifically because he was Muslim.

[April Joy]

Like, do they, do they not even read the teachings of Jesus? Like, I don't understand how you could have so much hate in your heart even, I mean, even if you disagree with, you know, their beliefs, like, that doesn't mean you kill them. Like, that is so Antichrist. Like the most Antichrist you could get.

[Tim Whitaker]

Well, and our society as a whole, in my opinion, is so incredibly Islamophobic. If this was a Muslim man asking people in a mall if you're a Christian or not, and then targeted a Christian, then said publicly, I targeted him because he was a Christian. Death to the infidel or something like that, this was. They would label this a terrorist attack. We had a terrorist attack happen in America. It was radical Islam. But because this is a Christian man, it's just. Hey, just one dude. Yeah, he's crazy. But it's not a terrorist attack. It's not part of a broader thing. It's not indicative of Christianity. It's just one isolated incident. And that's what drives me crazy, is like we have a whole different set of standards for different people based on their skin color, where they're from or what they believe. And, and it's very clear that Christians, even Christians who kill Muslims or try to kill Muslims, are held to a very different standard if the opposite were to be true. Yeah, you know, so, yeah.

[Melinda Hale]

Hey, everyone, Melinda Hale here, executive director of the New Evangelicals. Thanks for listening to our podcast. I just wanted to take a minute to personally invite you to be a part of our community. And at tne, we're creating space for people of faith who care about justice, compassion, and living out the teachings of Jesus in real, tangible ways. As a nonprofit organization, not only do we offer thought provoking podcasts, but on our new app and online platform, TNE Connect, we offer free educational resources, additional content, and a space to connect with like minded people for meaningful conversations and encouragement. So if what we're doing has been helpful to you, if you've learned something, felt seen or. Or been challenged to grow, head over to thenewevangelicals.com to join TNE Connect or make a donation. Your support means the world to us. Thanks for being a part of the movement.

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[April Joy]

So we do want to talk about the two shootings that happened a little like in the last, a little over a week very recently. Um, first we have Lorenzo Salgado araujo. He was 52 year old Mexican immigrant who was picking up members of a construction crew in Houston, Texas when he encountered ICE agents during a traffic stop and he was fatally shot. Now, ICE initially claimed that he tried to ram an ICE law enforcement vehicle. And then they, they claimed it was self defense. But the other people that were in the car, witnesses claimed that that's not what happened. And in fact, he was actually trying to just flee the scene.

[Tim Whitaker]

And these were unmarked cars. There was no siren, there was no lights. Men just boxed them in and got out of of their vehicles. And how often do we hear this? April, I mean, Renee, Nicole Good was trying to ram an officer. No, she wasn't. This is the rhetoric, this is what they use.

[Simon]

I.

[Tim Whitaker]

Why would we ever trust the government's narrative of these events when we know that they are lying about almost everything that they claim is true? Highly doubt, Lorenzo. This family man who's been in the country, by the way, for 30 years, who was going through the process trying to get his green card. I really highly doubt he intentionally tried to run over ICE agents. Highly doubt that narrative.

[Melinda Hale]

Right.

[April Joy]

And I mean, it's not like these men look like you can't tell an ICE agent because they're masked. They typically don't identify themselves. They didn't have any identity markers on their car. They. Are they carrying weapons?

[Tim Whitaker]

Yep.

[April Joy]

Like it's anyone could. It could imitate an ICE agent and just wreak havoc 100%. And they have more money than they've ever had.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes. Yes. So there was the Department of Homeland Security. ICE is funded through Trump's term. Now, Republicans passed a bill that used A tactic called reconciliation that allowed them to bypass all of, like the red tape and, you know, checks and balances to fully fund ice. Not through next year, through Trump's term, which, by the way, we don't even know how that money's being spent. We don't know what contractors are making a lot of money over this stuff. And we do know, by the way, thanks to recent filings from Trump, that the, that Trump as a person made certain stock trades ahead of certain announcements with certain agencies getting ICE contracts. So, like, this whole thing is corrupt from top to bottom. Trump is benefiting off of the corruption. ICE is becoming more and more unaccountable. They are not using body cams, to my understanding. I think it was this one or our next story. There were no body cams being worn. We don't know where the money is going. I mean, again, where is Doge when you need them? Where is the, the people rooting out corruption and waste? These are the biggest, these people are the biggest culprits in government waste and fraud that we've seen in quite a long time. And on top of that, Trump is the president who increased our deficit, the most out of any president in US history. He's responsible for 25% of the US deficit. That's what drives me crazy, is like every piece of rhetoric is just a confession, right? How many times were you told? Well, listen, Democrats want to, they want to put us in more debt, but Republicans, they want to balance the budget. We need fiscally conservative Republicans. Trump is spending more money than anyone else, putting us more in debt. And suddenly that, that rhetoric is nowhere to be found.

[April Joy]

Yeah, and to clarify, the agent, ICE Agency themselves have said that in both situations they were not wearing body cams. With all that money, they could afford body cams.

[Tim Whitaker]

As far as I know, not one ICE agent has been even held accountable in any degree. Renee Nicole Good's murderer is got restationed somewhere else. Alex Paretti's killer, I believe is either still working for ICE or face no consequences. You're not going to find people being held accountable for murdering Lorenzo or Sebastian, which we're gonna talk about in a minute. Like, there's just no accountability. These people, they're shooting unarmed people or they are disarming lawful gun holding citizens and then shooting them in the back. And somehow we have to accept this as like normal and as a good thing.

[April Joy]

Right. And I think it's important to point out. Cause one of the things that I see said in defense of ICE is that, well, if they Just followed the law, you know, they wouldn't be shot. And even if they did everything wrong and they. They. And. Well, it's important to point out, too, that in both of these cases with Guerrero and Salgado Rajo, they were not the intended targets of ICE that day.

[Tim Whitaker]

Thank you. Thank you.

[April Joy]

They were not the targets. They were not being racially profiled because they looked like the target. And which is a whole other set of issues. But I also just. But regardless, even if they are worth the target, they're here illegally. That's a civil offense. I should not be killing people.

[Tim Whitaker]

Thank you.

[April Joy]

Regardless of what the other person has

[Tim Whitaker]

done, people are entitled to due process. That's not even a controversial thing. If you're inside the American border, you're entitled to due process. You're not worthy of being shot dead for not obeying an officer's order. Even if that was the case. Let's just say that that was not the case. Let's say Reddy Cole.

[Guest or Listener]

Good.

[Tim Whitaker]

Or whoever was directly not listening to an officer. That is not a reason for them to be shot dead. Right. Isn't it innocent until proven guilty in a court of law? Isn't that the rhetoric we always hear about Trump, for example? And even then when he's found guilty in a court of law, you know, it was rigged jury. Suddenly these people accept and defend lawless executions happening in our streets because they got in the way. And the reason why I'm saying this is because we can never get numb to this. The second we get numb to this reality is the second that we acquiesce and we accept it as a new normal. This is not normal. This should not be accepted. It needs to be said over and over again. This federal government, from the party of small, limited government, is funding ICE in a record amount more than the FBI and is sending armed, masked federal agents into cities and neighborhoods with complete immunity who are. And they're able to do whatever they want. They're targeting citizens, they're kidnapping children, they are killing people. And we're told this is what is making America great. Again, how do you not see through the bs? How do people think this is a good thing?

[April Joy]

Right.

[Tim Whitaker]

It's impossible to reconcile this with any kind of just basic moral foundation, let alone a Christian one.

[April Joy]

Right, Right.

[Tim Whitaker]

I wanna just update people on a few things. This is really important. I wanna give people some stats here about ICE since Trump has taken over, because, again, these numbers are important because we have to be able to compare before and after. And by the way, we're all aware that Obama had ICE agents doing stuff. We all know that, and we all. Obama was critiqued heavy by the left and Biden as well, for their immigration policies. So, you know, I want to be clear about that. Like, I don't want anyone, Democrat or Republican, doing this, so. ICE was averaging about 300 arrests per day in late 2024. By December of 2025 through January 2026, average ICE averaged 1264 arrests per day, an increase of more than 300% at the peak in December 2025, more than 800 people were arrested in community at large operations rather than being transferred from jails or prisons. Here's what we need to know. More than two out of every five ICE arrests involve people with no criminal convictions, no pending criminal charges, and no identified gang affiliation. Okay. Arrests of people with no criminal record became the single largest category of ICE arrests. More than one out of every three people deported from detention in 2025 had no criminal record whatsoever. Among those who did have convictions, 64% had only misdemeanor convictions or similar similarly low level offenses. Only 2% were identified in ICE data as suspected gang members. 2%, 2%.4% were identified as known or suspected terrorist. ICE is now deporting more than 30,000 people every month from detention. They're averaging over a thousand deportations a day. And they're targeting areas, you know, that don't even have the highest concentration of undocumented immigrants. They're targeting places like Florida instead of California. So it's just, you know, it's just like, it's one of those things where it's like, the data is so clear. We are not arresting the bad guys. We're not going after the criminals. We're going after brown skinned immigrants because they're brown skinned, because they're immigrants from the global South. The Trump administration is welcoming white Africaners who are living large in South Africa to the US as with refugee status, and giving them welcome packages. They're giving them care packages when they get here. White Africaners, while we're deporting and killing our brown skinned immigrant neighbors. I don't know how else to tell people that this is a racist, xenophobic regime that tragically, 80% of white evangelicals, our former faith tradition, voted for in 2016 and 2020 and in 2024. It's right there, friends.

[April Joy]

And beyond the violence that they're using when they target people, the conditions in these detention centers are abhorrent. In 2026 alone, no 19 people have died in ICE. Custody. 31 died in ICE custody last year. And that's according to Axios. And that's just the people that have died, like people are starved. There was a hunger strike in one of the detention centers near you, right? In Delaney.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes, Delaney.

[April Joy]

Because the conditions are so poor. Children are getting sick. They're not being offered like the, the amount, the, the medical attention that they need. And that's why people flee. Because I, this is, I really think, because ICE is supposed to meet a certain quota because of all these promises that Donald Trump, the Trump administration has made that they're just, they're just going out and just grabbing people. They're not even, in many cases, not even getting the correct paperwork. Like the amount of American citizens that have been wrongfully detained and then let go sometimes days later once they figure it out.

[Announcer]

Yes.

[April Joy]

Like that also happens all the time too, because it's just chaos. They're, they're treating this entire thing like chaos. And actual human beings are paying the cost for this hatred of the other.

[Tim Whitaker]

If anyone watched. Almost over a year ago now, I, I covered the story in my local town of, of Muhammad Eminent and his family. They run a little kebab shop called Jersey Kebab. ICE showed up at their doorstep unannounced, arrested their mother, put her in a detention center in New Jersey. And we covered it on the New Evangelicals. The story went mega viral. Muhammad and I keep in touch. We had him on the TNY podcast, two hour long interviews so people could hear the immigration story. So just to give you guys an example, because you know, a very classic trope is, well, they should come here the right way. Okay, let me just dispel why that is such a myth. Muhammad and his family have been in the pending state status in this country for almost a decade now. They have submitted paperwork, they have, they have a business, but only the father was allowed to start a business because Muhammad and his mom have no Social Security number. So they're not entitled to any benefits. They can't get healthcare, they can't buy a car, they can't work somewhere else because they have no, they have no Social Security number because they're still impending. Right. So their business and them, they're paying taxes and getting nothing out of it. Muhammad was told. Now Mohammed is married to a US citizen with children. He's been in this country for over a decade. Not no criminal record. He runs a local family business providing a service to the community. We all love Muhammad and his family. The government is threatening to send him back to Turkey by himself. If he can't prove like proof of living here. He's given them a 500 page binder from his lawyer proving that he has a life here. People have sent in letters to the judge. I sent a letter in showing that Muhammad is welcome here. We want him here. He's still pending. They're still waiting for the judge to rule. Maybe next year. It got pushed back another year in April. So Muhammad and his family are a great example of they are trying to go through the process the right way, but they are facing all kinds of obstacles, not because of them, but because of how our immigration system is set up. Right. So Muhammad and his family are set to pending, so they're stuck in limbo. They can't go back then they can't come back here and they can't be here fully legally because they haven't been issued the proper documentation even though they've submitted it. That's what it's like for immigrants trying to do things the right way. It is not an easy process. It's very frustrating.

[April Joy]

Yeah.

[Tim Whitaker]

The poor guy is scared to death thinking at any day he could be separated from his family. His wife and kids would stay here while he goes back to Turkey with no one. His whole family's here. Tell me how that is profanily, Tell me how that is humane. Tell me how that is. Just tell me how that is rooting out the bad guys. It does none of those things. It just targets brown skinned people.

[April Joy]

Yeah. Because at the end of the day, and most of them won't say this out loud, although some of them do, they just want a white Christian nation 100% because it's not about like they claim, just people coming here the right way.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right.

[April Joy]

They just want a Whiter Nation 100%. The white supremacy that is rooted in this xenophobia and this anti immigration rhetoric is. I mean it's been there since the beginning. Yes, yes, we do want to mention too, just the other shooting that happened.

[Tim Whitaker]

Well, really quick, I have a video of Lorenzo's son talking about his dad. Might be good to play. I just think it's really important to humanize these. These are not just stories, these are actual people. So here's his son talking about his dad who was killed, unjustly murdered by ICE agents.

[Guest or Listener]

That's how I want the world to know my father. Not as someone who got shot and killed, but as a family man. A man who understood that good things come to those who put in hard work. I am calling for a full investigation into the Events that transpired yesterday, July 7. He did not deserve to die. He did not deserve to be reduced to a headline of Mexican man shot and Killed by ice. He deserved to live a quiet life as Lorenzo Salgado Araujo, a husband, a father, and a job creator for dozens of men who also wanted the American dream. I would be doing his memory a disservice if I didn't recognize the other three men who were with him, one of which was my uncle. All three men were rounded up. Have not heard from them, but I hope that they are able to provide their own statements to prove that. My father feared for his life. As unmarked cars followed my dad, who only wanted to get back to work and back to us. My dad, because he had been in the process of getting a work permit, he knew what to do in case he was stopped by ice. Okay, what happened, though? My father was being followed by two unmarked cars. Had my father seen an emblem of ICE or an emblem that says anything about law enforcement agency, my father would have complied. He would have stopped. He would have not ran away because he feared for his life.

[Tim Whitaker]

There you go. There you go. This and that.

[April Joy]

That is such a valid point, though, like, the unmarked cars, especially given, like, what just happened at that mall with the stabbing of the Muslim. Like, there are legit, violent white supremacists out there that would pretend to be ICE or right, or to kill these people. Like, there are some unhinged, violent, terrible people out there that. That genuinely just are so racist that they want to kill anyone that's not white.

[Tim Whitaker]

On July 4th, we had white supremacists march to the Capitol. Like, unlike national law. Like, yes, yes, this stuff has been emboldened. Jake Lang is around the country saying the most heinous things about immigrants and other minority groups. It is emboldened. Nick Fuentes has millions of people who listen to his stuff. Like, this world is emboldened under this administration. It makes complete sense, right, April? And we also. We've heard stories of people posing as ICE agents, masked and committing crimes, assaulting people, assaulting women, et cetera. So, yes, of course. Of course I would freak out. I would freak out. Now, as a. As a straight white man in this country, if an unmarked car just boxed me in and a masked agent came out, I'd be like, I'm freaking the heck out.

[April Joy]

If an unmarked car with masked men and weapons were trying to follow me, I wouldn't stop.

[Tim Whitaker]

No, no, no. You want to read a few super chats while we're here? And then get to the next story. Or do you want to get to the next story now?

[April Joy]

Yeah, we can. We can.

[Tim Whitaker]

We have a lot of them. So, friends again, thanks so much for being here. We're the Tim April Show. We go live every Thursday, 12 o' clock Eastern here on YouTube. And on substack, we have a few super chats. All super chats support the work of the Tim April show via the new evangelicals. So thank you so much for your support. Can you read some of these, April? Are you cool reading them?

[April Joy]

Yes. Let me see. Okay. From Dr. Gerbs. Gerbs, Happy St. Anne's Novena Week. To those celebrating our fond memories of the one in Scranton, Pennsylvania, can either her prayer from memory. And do y' all remember the greatest adventure stories from the Bible?

[Tim Whitaker]

I remember the greatest adventure stories. Also Scranton, pa, the electric city, a great place. That's from the office. So thank you, Rusty, for the super chat. Appreciate it. Next.

[April Joy]

Okay, Charlie, Earth Roast shared the link on threads with the topic the Tim and April Show. Let's get them trending on this.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, thank you. That's so kind. Thank you so much. All right, you got a couple more here.

[April Joy]

Jared the weird worker. Someone stabs a Muslim, but Christian nationalists insist they're the ones facing religious persecution.

[Guest or Listener]

Yep.

[April Joy]

I know. It's so frustrating. From Cassie Cruz, thank you for being so up to date on the news. It's so helpful. You both are great. Been with April since Evangelical. Ish.

[Tim Whitaker]

Wow. Throwback.

[April Joy]

That is a throwback. Wow. Thank you. From Tandyman, there is a national day of action focused on stopping ice terror. This Saturday, July 18, find a protest in your area. Oh, good to know. And from Melanie Lee, I'm getting more than fed up with this escalation of attacks on people of color. Whether it's head hegseth, blocking women in poc, ice, kidnapping and killing people, or random attacks by ordinary people. Same. I feel that it's a super chat. Nikki Chels.

[Unidentified Male Speaker]

Okay.

[Tim Whitaker]

It's the crying emoji.

[April Joy]

Crying face. I mean, I can cry as well.

[Tim Whitaker]

We're all crying.

[April Joy]

Okay, a couple more here from Joseph Compton. ICE never intended for accountability. That's why they're wearing masks to hide their identities. It's why they don't want to have body cams rolling. I mean, that's fair. From Deanna much. Hey, Deanna. Shooting someone driving a car does not stop the car. We saw what happened to Renee's car. She set up as a result of being shot. Untrained, unqualified, hateful men. ICE Needs to be abolished. Co sign two more. And Joseph Compton again, thank you. I've reached the conclusion that white evangelical Christians are the most spiritually lost people in America. They have never truly met Jesus. They're insulated in a world of an Americanized version of the Gospel. You're not wrong.

[Tim Whitaker]

Cosign on that.

[April Joy]

Yeah. And then from Renee Lamour. Hi Tim and April. They always try and gaslight me on social media, but I don't believe they're lies. ICE needs to be held accountable. Agreed.

[Tim Whitaker]

Thank you so much for the super chats, friends. Thank you so much.

[April Joy]

Thank you all.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay, go ahead, April. Next story.

[April Joy]

There was another shooting in Maine. This was a 26 year old husband and father from Colombia named John Sebastian Guerrero. He was shot and killed by ice. And in Bford, Maine just a few days ago.

[Tim Whitaker]

This shot through his windshield multiple times. They claimed at first that he was trying to ram their car. Video showed that was not true. Shocker alert. And now we have a three year old who is going to grow up fatherless because of ice's actions.

[April Joy]

And he also was not the target of the day. And the. His family has said that he had legal status and a Social Security card. Like, yes, like he was here doing

[Tim Whitaker]

it the right way.

[April Joy]

Guys, that doesn't make a difference.

[Tim Whitaker]

I'm so tired of the rhetoric.

[April Joy]

Should have been shot either way.

[Tim Whitaker]

But I think that, I think, I think that's what drives me crazy is that I know people who believe that rhetoric. They really think that this is about trying to stop, quote, unquote, bad guys when all you have to do is look like 1cm beneath that rhetoric to see that's not true. And I think that's what drives me crazy, is that people are pretending to be ignorant here. Oh, I don't know. I'm just coming here the right way. It's not my business when it's right in front of your faces. How do, how again, how do you justify federal armed agents masked shooting someone through the car windshield multiple times

[Unidentified Male Speaker]

after

[Tim Whitaker]

he was targeted incorrectly and was a legal citizen and was not being aggressive? How, how do we, how do we tolerate this?

[April Joy]

Do we want to read the statement that Homeland Security put out in response? We have to.

[Tim Whitaker]

I don't want to, but I. We will. This is how, you know, even, even Homeland Security's propaganda account is, is. You can't even admit. Well, I'll just read it. So they said on July 13, 2026, at approximately 7am, ICE was conducting targeted surveillance on the last known address of an Illegal alien. With a final order of removal. An illegal alien departed the residence in a vehicle. ICE law enforcement attempted to conduct a vehicle stop the vehicle attempted to flee the scene, and fearing for public safety, an officer discharged his weapon. The driver of the vehicle was stuck, was struck, and emergency services were immediately contacted. He passed away from his injuries. And then they talk about the police. Okay, two things. Number one, we know this was not the intended target. So already this account is lying. Okay, they were going after the wrong person. But number two, even this propaganda account doesn't say that the driver was trying to ram officers. That's how clear the evidence is. Even an account that lies through its teeth won't tell you that, oh, this person was trying to ram officers. What they say is that the vehicle attempted to flee the scene and fearing for public safety, not the officer. Safety for public safety. An officer discharged his weapon, AKA the officer thought this guy was a threat, so he murdered him. He became judge, jury, and executioner. That's what they're saying.

[April Joy]

It's so infuriating. And honestly, I hate the way, too. An illegal alien. I. I hate that phrase. It is so dehumanizing in of itself. And it's so calculated, the way that they talk about these raids and these traffic stops. Because they don't want you to realize that who they killed was a human being.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right, Right.

[April Joy]

Was a father and a husband.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yep.

[April Joy]

Like I.

[Tim Whitaker]

And. And the mother and daughter showed up to this scene. The daughter was wearing bluey pajamas and she saw her father dead on the street. Like, is this not evil? I don't know what else to say. I don't know how many more times we keep saying the same freaking thing. It's evil. And the fact that people have created Christian theologies to justify this is even more demonic. The fact that we have pastors and pundits saying, hey, I represent biblical values. And I'm telling you, this kind of stuff is justifiable. This is a biblical. This is a biblical approach is so disgusting to me. It makes me so nauseous to see the name of Christ. The same Christ who says to welcome the immigrant. Like, it's so clear. Then have his words twisted or not invoked at all to justify the murder of people, of human beings.

[April Joy]

Yeah. So in response to this, the agency did announce that they were going to temporarily pause traffic stops. I don't, I don't know if they were going to do more training or whatever, but they, at least they were like, hey, the traffic stops really aren't helping. Like, we're Killing people. So let's stop that temporarily. But then Trump came out and said no. He posted this on his Truth Social account. He said, the men and women of ICE are doing a great job. One that has to be done. Done. Crime is way down in America in many cases with numbers that haven't been seen in decades. The open border policy of sleepy Joe Biden allowed 25 million people to pour into our country unchecked and unvetted. I have questions about that number. Many were criminals and we have to get them out. In order to do this, we must be strong, tough and smart. And we cannot give up one of ice's most important and effective crime fighting tools, the traffic stop. Once we do, we are playing right into the criminal's hands. The radical left Dumb O Crats would like to see this done, but it won't happen on my watch. Ice, be judicious, fair and smart and go back and do your very important job. Keep those crime stat records coming. Remember, you are loved and respected in America. Thank you for your attention to this matter. President Donald J. Trump. I really miss when presidents were presidential.

[Tim Whitaker]

I, I really hate this man. I'm just going to say I do not like this man at all. You know, he makes the comment crime is way down in America. That is true, but not because of ICE agents. They're only increasing their murder rate. Okay. It's not because of that. I, I mean, in fact, right now New York City crime is down very low. Why isn't Zoran Mamdani getting praised for that? It's his. Isn't he the mayor? Why is Trump taking credit for what's happening in New York City? Aren't the cities which, by the way, I'm looking at the Council on Criminal justice, it says reported levels of 11 of the 13 offenses covered in this report were lower in 2025 than in 2024. Nine of these offenses declined by 10% or more. However, drug crimes were the only offense category that increased. Isn't that the rhetoric though, that drugs are pouring in because of illegal immigrants? Quote, unquote. But hey, I guess you're, I guess it's not really working then if drug offenses are going up. I'm just saying we know that undocumented immigrants are half as likely to commit any kind of crime as their native born counterparts. Come on.

[April Joy]

And also like just the zero, zero remorse for the immigrants that were just needlessly killed for the husbands and fathers that were murdered by ice. No mention of that. Just ICE is doing a great job and in fact they need to keep doing what they've been doing, even though people are dying.

[Tim Whitaker]

Because in white supremacy, some lives are more valuable than others. We just watched Democratic politicians mourn the loss of Lindsey Graham in ways that was like, for me, over the top. Lindsey Graham was a great friend. We disagreed. That man said we should nuke Gaza. Lindsey Graham as a politician was a war hawk. And we have Democratic politicians being like, he was a great guy. We didn't see our eye to eye, but man, was he funny. But, but, but do you think those people are going to tweet the same way about these two people or about Nolan Wells, the, the, the, the black 18 year old who died under, at a minimum, incredibly mysterious circumstances and things are super sus with that case? No, but our country's mourning Lindsey Graham, the man who literally said that we should wipe out all the children and people in Gaza. Trump will tell you that Melissa Hortman deserved it. He wouldn't even call Tim Waltz. He said that he was happy that Robert Mueller died. He was thrilled about that. But when it's people that he's supposed to care about. Charlie Kirk, for example. Oh, how dare you. How dare you speak ill of the dead. How dare you bring up his own words. How disrespectful. This is how white supremacy and Christian nationalism functions. Some bodies are worth more than others. Some bodies deserve more dignity than others. Some bodies are just more human than others. And on that, on that, that hierarchy, white men are at the very top and everyone else kind of trickles down to the bottom. That's how it works. Yeah, it's how it works.

[April Joy]

It's not very. All lives matter of them.

[Tim Whitaker]

Well, and look, they will say that's not true. Forget the rhetoric, look at the fruit of the action. And if you bypass all of their propaganda in terms of the wording that they use and look at, and look at the direct results of their policies and of their actions, you will see exactly what I'm talking about. You will see white Africaners are welcomed in as refugees. Brown skinned immigrants are killed in the streets. That's the bottom line. I don't care how you get there. That's what's happening under this administration, full stop.

[April Joy]

I mean, the hypocrisy truly knows no bounds. No bounds, especially. And we are Christians and we come from this conservative Christian nationalist world. So we're going to be more intentional about pointing out the hypocrisy of the evangelicals that claim to love all people because they love their neighbors, because they are Christian. While they celebrate the deaths of people who are not white.

[Unidentified Male Speaker]

Yep.

[April Joy]

Or maybe not celebrate, but just ignore, justify, ignore, whatever. Justify, defend. While at the same time get mad at people who don't show remorse when the oppressors die. Like Lindsey Graham.

[Tim Whitaker]

Exactly. By the way, I want to try and thread the needle here. I'm not. I'm not necessarily saying people should dance on his grave, but what I am saying, though, is that some people with a lot of power, when they die, other people are relieved because they're no longer under the boot of. Of their oppression. It makes sense. It makes sense. If you're. If a country is raining bombs on your school children and the person responsible for that dies, you're going to celebrate that. You're going to be happy that person's no longer there. Why? Not? Because you inherently hate human beings, but because that person was raining bombs on your children in schools. Right. So that's what I'm saying is like when you have someone who's saying, I always stand with Israel, we should nuke Gaza, sending more money to Israel, that's bombing children, I can understand how people would say, I'm glad he's no longer on this planet because that's one less person to rain bombs on our children. That's not. That's not denigrating or dehumanizing him. That's telling the truth about his political legacy. He might have been a great husband or a great dad. I don't know. But when it comes to public policy and what he advocated for, he harmed a lot of people. A lot of people. So many people.

[April Joy]

Well, he was not a husband.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, he wasn't. Okay. I don't know. I don't know.

[April Joy]

He's never married.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, okay. All right. So maybe he was a good son. I don't. I have no idea. So anyway, brother wanted to.

[April Joy]

Sister is now taking his seat.

[Tim Whitaker]

No, that's. It's just the

[April Joy]

episode like, that is such a weird thing. Just like, as a sidebar, like, my brother's a roofer. If something were to ever happen to him, like the idea that, like, oh, you have to be the roofer now,

[Tim Whitaker]

like, can you finish the job? Can you just hop in? Hop on the. Start hammering stuff in. Actually, I would kind of. I would kind of pay to watch you try and roof. I have no idea how to do it. It'd be funny.

[April Joy]

Oh, God, I would not be.

[Tim Whitaker]

Or having your brother host the show, you know?

[April Joy]

Yeah. Something happened to me then. My brother's got it now.

[Christy from Lululemon]

Yeah.

[Unidentified Male Speaker]

Yeah.

[Guest or Listener]

So.

[April Joy]

Yeah.

[Unidentified Male Speaker]

Hi.

[Simon]

My name's Simon and I'm in Sydney, Australia, and I'm a monthly donor for the New Evangelicals. I found the TNE Instagram in 2021. I'd recently stepped down from my job as a pastor. I was beginning to find a real conflict between what I was beginning to believe about God and the world and the church and the evangelical spaces I was in. But at the time, it was really dark for me. I was really lonely. I was really isolated. I had so many questions. And finding a space where it was okay to ask questions and to share my thoughts and ideas and hear other people's ideas at the same time and just be able to connect with so many people that were going through similar themes was incredible for me at a time when I needed it most. Since then, I've been quite involved with the organization for a while. I was the moderator admin for the Facebook group and now I've just started out on the New Evangelicals board. I would love to encourage you if you can make a monthly donation to the New Evangelicals. There's some great work happening and particularly Project Amplify and the opportunity it has. So many voices to give so many voices a chance to be heard. I know it's something I needed in my dark moments. It's something we're able to contribute to that can help other people as they begin to smell the fresh air outside that basement of fundamentalist evangelical spaces.

[Tim Whitaker]

Do you want to get to Pete Hegseth?

[April Joy]

Yeah, just.

[Tim Whitaker]

I just think it's worth talking about. Yeah, then we'll get to. Yeah, then we'll get into our. Our. So, you know, again, guys like I. I just want to say that for all this talk about. About being against gender affirming care or, you know, hating trans people, it's just kind of wild to watch these Alpha bros embrace gender affirming care when it benefits them. Not sure people have seen this. It's a wild one. But Pete Hegseth made a pretty shocking announcement about the military. I'll play the video, then we'll give our thoughts.

[Announcer]

Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth is rolling out a new program to screen troops for

[Guest or Listener]

low testosterone, ensuring you have the right testosterone levels to operate at your absolute best.

[Announcer]

The test will be part of annual health screenings for troops 30 and older. Younger troops can volunteer to be tested, and any treatment would be up to the individual soldier.

[Guest or Listener]

It's not about artificial enhancement. It's about restoring and optimizing your natural capabilities, protecting your longevity, and ensuring you have the biological foundation required to Sustain the fight.

[Announcer]

Experts say hormones matter beyond just the gym.

[April Joy]

It's a biomarker of a man's overall health. And so when we have low testosterone, this can contribute to fatigue, reduced muscle strength, decreased endurance, impaired concentration, low mood.

[Announcer]

Guidelines generally recommend against blanket testing as levels can swing throughout the day. The Pentagon also did not say whether female troops would be offered similar hormone screening. Two Democratic lawmakers, both veterans, are urging Hegseth to extend hormone testing to all service members. For those who do have low levels, experts say there are effective treatments.

[April Joy]

We have good data now showing the safety and efficacy of testosterone therapy.

[Announcer]

It's the latest in Hegseth's push to reshape soldiers health and fitness. He's ordered tougher fitness tests and daily physical training. Declaring a crackdown on, quote, fat troops. The Trump administration is looking to expand access to testosterone nationwide, proposing a plan to ease limits on prescribing it.

[Tim Whitaker]

Notice I have to laugh at this stuff because these Alpha bros will do stuff like this, right? They're a fine gender. Affirmative care benefits them. Do you think Pete will extend this to women? No, of course not. Of course not, guys. Because Pete Hagseth, who's a disciple of Doug Wilson, believes that women should be in the kitchen. They shouldn't be able to vote. They shouldn't be able to be in the military. They should be in the kitchen.

[April Joy]

It's really interesting that he did not specify whether or not women could take testosterone screenings as well.

[Tim Whitaker]

Why wouldn't. That would be inappropriate.

[April Joy]

Yeah, but he didn't clarify only men.

[Tim Whitaker]

Look, I. I believe it feels very. He believes that. That men only have testosterone and women only have estrogen. You know, like, Pete has such a binary about gender and sex. He really thinks that, like, women are only good for womenly duties as defined by western American culture. So they can clean, they can be cooks in the kitchen for the troops. But he does not believe that women should be allowed to be in combat roles. He said that as much. So of course they're gonna do whatever they can to minimize access for women to things like this while elevating men.

[April Joy]

Yeah, it almost feels like. I feel like the next step, he's gonna start injecting everyone with steroids and try to make, like, superhuman super soldier.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, I know. I mean, this is what happens when you have, like, a GI Joe cosplayer running the military. Men, you know what we're going to do? We need you combat ready. Because obviously, you know, we're. We're in a World War III scenario. We're gonna check your testosterone levels and offer you testosterone replacement therapy. But we also don't support gender affirming care for trans people.

[April Joy]

Yeah.

[Tim Whitaker]

It's just so annoying. So frustrating. Truly so dumb.

[April Joy]

It's. Pete hugs us. He's such a man. Have you seen him do his little, like, side run?

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes. Or his. Or his bench press? Like, look, I'm not great on the bench, okay? But I can tell you I can bench more than feed Hegseth. It's just funny watching him be like, you know, he, he. Or how about when he gave that prayer, the. The Pulp Fiction prayer.

[Guest or Listener]

Yeah.

[Tim Whitaker]

He tries to be all serious. We want you sharp as arrows, more lethal than any kind of, you know, the most lethal military force on the planet. And there he is. He could barely do the exercises.

[April Joy]

Yeah.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, my gosh.

[April Joy]

Well, anyway, that was kind of weird.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah.

[April Joy]

Should we get to our. Speaking of weird, our final segment?

[Tim Whitaker]

How about some super chats?

[April Joy]

Oh, yeah. Good job.

[Tim Whitaker]

We have a few more. I think. I think this. How many do we have? Okay, here we go. We have this one from. I can read these. Justine Bailey, 923. I'm just so tired of the killing. Glad we're all here to help each other. Help each week to help us all cope. Absolutely. Thank you so much for the super chat from KIF8959. Thank you, Tim and April. I feel so helpless when I hear all this. People are being so dehumanized. Love wins over fear and hate. Absolutely. Joseph Compton. Lindsey Graham was a closeted homosexual. He was too afraid to come out. I did see an Instagram post about this. Of course, the Internet will say anything, but I would not be surprised. There's kind of a trend for people doing that kind of stuff. And Jared, the weird worker. What's in the can, April? A Christian energy drink. Yahweh.

[April Joy]

No, I am not drinking Yahweh today. I am drinking a strawberry peach Lacroix.

[Tim Whitaker]

All right, well, with that being said, friends, let's get to our final segment and try and have a good laugh.

[April Joy]

Weird Christian.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay, let's just play it. Let's just play it. Then we'll break it down.

[April Joy]

Great.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, we're already off to a good start with that image. Okay, here we go. Oh, for people on podcast. It's a man and his wife. The man's shirtless. The caption says, there's a storm coming and they're outside.

[Unidentified Male Speaker]

It's our one year anniversary today. Look, there's a storm coming. Look, a big old strike of lightning just landed right There in some thunder that said, everybody else is inside, so should we be inside? Maybe. But here's why we're not. See, the Bible says that our days are numbered. We are predestined. Every single day that we live is predestined. And whether or not we run inside or whether we stay out here is not going to change God's predestination. So I'll tell you what we're going to do. We're going to sit out here. We're going to enjoy the wind. We're going to soak up the, therefore, lack of sunshine that is out here on this balcony. We're having a great time. Fellas, love your wives. Wives, submit to your own husbands.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, my gosh.

[Unidentified Male Speaker]

Amen. Hey, Happy Friday. Is it Friday? Happy Friday. God bless.

[April Joy]

Love how after that whole speech, he had to ask his wife what day it was.

[Tim Whitaker]

I know. Well, I know. I love. I love. After his whole speech. And women, submit to your husbands. Like, where did that come from? What? Like, okay, so if people don't know, there's a theology of predestination in evangelicalism that says that God has ordained every action that comes to pass. There's not one rogue molecule outside of God's will. And this guy is taking that part seriously. He really believes that no matter what he does. Well to. There's a limit there. Right. I doubt he'll jump into the bottom of the ocean. I doubt he will, you know, go into. And go into a zoo exhibit where there are bears and lions. I don't think he'll do any of that stuff or eat Ra poison. But he believes that no matter what he does, his days are numbered. And when he dies, he dies. And here he is outside the middle of a storm saying, it is what it is.

[April Joy]

This is such a. It's such a silly theology. And honestly, I kind of felt like it was even when I was evangelical because I was never a Calvinist or a predestination babe.

[Tim Whitaker]

Predestination babe

[April Joy]

wasn't my vibe.

[Unidentified Male Speaker]

Darn.

[Announcer]

But.

[April Joy]

But, like, if they were to actually, like, die in this storm, then the people in their church wouldn't. Their response wouldn't be, oh, they were stupid for doing this.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right.

[April Joy]

It would be, oh, God had predestined them to go out and stand in the storm and then die.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, yeah.

[April Joy]

Which is like the account. Like, it takes away all accountability and decision making and free will.

[Tim Whitaker]

Well, and also, he doesn't really act like that's the case. Right. He makes decisions all day. He makes choices all he, he decides what is a wise decision and what's not a wise decision. Obviously he doesn't have a good sense of, of what that might be given what he's doing in here. But like, and, and people are asking or saying in the chat that, that, that, that they, they've never heard of this predestination idea. It comes from this acronym called TULIP that evangelical Calvinists use. It stands for the T stands for total depravity. They use meaning that we're all inherently sinful and wicked, all of us. Once you're born, you're inherently wicked and sinful. Nothing you could do can make you better. You're just a bad, terrible, evil person and God automatically hates you. You're called the reprobate. Unconditional election is that God has chosen whom he will save. And once that has been set, since before the foundation of the earth was even made, it's been set. So if you're not part of the elect, you are going to be passed over and sent to hell because you have to pay for your sin that you were not necessarily responsible for, but were born into. Then you have L limited atonement, which means that the death and resurrection of Jesus or the sacrifice of Jesus does not apply to everyone. It only applies to the elect who will then go to heaven. L I I is irresistible grace. If you are called to be. If you're predestined to be a Christian, you will, no matter what, become a Christian. You cannot resist the will of God's, God's call on your life. And then where am I? T U L I P stands for the perseverance of the saints. Once you're saved, you're always saved. So that is the, the acronym that you're taught in these spaces. And like you said, April, even though I was a Calvinist for a little bit, I also thought like it didn't make a lot of sense, right? Because wait, God is good and loving, but in God's all powerful. But God has created some people just to burn in hell forever. Wouldn't it be better not to create them at all? Like, isn't the more just thing for someone never to have been born to than to be born, potentially live a terrible life here and then burn in hell forever at no fault of their own?

[April Joy]

You would think one would think.

[Tim Whitaker]

But then they'll say, then they'll quote Romans 9 and say, who are you? Oh man. To talk back to God. That's how they get you.

[April Joy]

But it still does, it just doesn't make sense. Well, none of it makes sense. Also, like, there's no point in sending out missionaries to spread the gospel.

[Tim Whitaker]

Trust me, they have workarounds for all of that.

[April Joy]

For all I know they do. I know they do. Because I used to get in debates with them and I'd be like, you're using circular reasoning. It doesn't make sense.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right, right.

[April Joy]

Because I was an evangelical who also didn't make sense on a lot of things. Even I was like, no, y' all truly don't make sense.

[Tim Whitaker]

What they would say is, well, we're still commanded to preach the gospel, so we should still do it. So. But it doesn't matter. Like, if that is true. If the game is set and matched before you were ever born, you have no choice. You're outcome is your outcome. You could sit on a couch, eat Doritos, and watch loss for the rest of your life on repeat, and it wouldn't change the outcome of anything. Because that's what you. You were predestined to do.

[April Joy]

My favorite predestination story is how I got blocked by Brian Save. Oh, Suave, whatever his name is. How do you even say his?

[Tim Whitaker]

Brian Suave? Just for people who don't know, he's a white nationalist who. Who held a conference where there was a Nazi publisher present who was also a vendor. That's Brian Suave.

[April Joy]

Yeah. So he had posted something super. What?

[Unidentified Male Speaker]

He.

[Tim Whitaker]

Didn't he write that song recently about women?

[April Joy]

You know, if. If we play that song, though, he's gonna. We're gonna get flagged, probably.

[Tim Whitaker]

Can we play it though? Just trim it out,

[April Joy]

I guess, so

[Tim Whitaker]

we don't have to. It's so bad.

[April Joy]

It's. So I'm texting you. I'm texting you a thread, and I just want you to show the screenshots because this is how I got blocked by him. And it's. Honestly, I laugh whenever I think about it. He did just write a song that he claimed was to fix women.

[Tim Whitaker]

Fix women.

[Unidentified Male Speaker]

Gosh.

[April Joy]

Oh, okay.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, wow. You gave me. There's a whole lot here. Okay, let's take a look.

[April Joy]

It's not a whole lot. It's four pictures.

[Tim Whitaker]

Can you read these then?

[April Joy]

Yes. So he tweeted, this was back in 2022. So I've been blocked for a minute.

[Tim Whitaker]

For a minute.

[April Joy]

But he said, many women underestimate the influence they would wield at home with a few simple acts. Dressing femininely, smiling a whole lot. Cultivating sexual responsiveness. Covering offenses with grace. Verbally respecting her husband. Smiling femininity is powerfully culture shaping. So then I replied, or I quote tweeted and I said unsubscribe. And then he replied to my quote tweet and said, ugh. Anyway, with a little meme. And then I replied, what you have described. Oh, manly man. Bearded one is a blow up doll. Perhaps BOD has predestined one for you.

[Melinda Hale]

Oops.

[April Joy]

And then the final slide is.

[Tim Whitaker]

There's such. There's such. They're so insecure, these men. Oh, my God. They try to pretend that they're all, you know, they're. They're super, you know, tough and amazing and they're just not. They're just so weak and cowardly. Like, dude, go to therapy. Yeah, go to therapy.

[April Joy]

Okay, I'll need to go to therapy.

[Tim Whitaker]

I'm trying to find the song. I do think it is like.

[April Joy]

I think I sent it to you. I think I sent it in the. I definitely sent it to you.

[Tim Whitaker]

You sent it to me. I'm pulling it out.

[April Joy]

Some behind the scenes, Tim and I have chats opened on like seven different apps, so it's very hard to find where something was.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay, this is the one here. The number one problem facing America today, obviously it's college educated women. That's what he says.

[Guest or Listener]

This is.

[Tim Whitaker]

This guy's real. This guy's real. So, Brian, what do you think about the crisis of women going to college Now, Evan, I'm glad you asked that question because it really is the number one problem facing America today. My answer to that problem is a song that I wrote actually intended to fix women. There's a hole in her heart about the size of a cradle Hollering, screaming behind oh, cover in that paper thin face to give up smile don't ever let anyone be a good girl now, honey, go get that promotion. There you go. So, Brian, what do you think? Taste of his.

[April Joy]

He did it to fix. Wrote it to fix women.

[Tim Whitaker]

Fix women.

[April Joy]

Also, we literally just talked about this terror organization known as ICE that is literally killing people. And that's. That's just like the. The tip of the iceberg of all of the awful things that are wrong with our country. And he said the biggest crisis is college educated women, obviously.

[Tim Whitaker]

Obviously. I think the biggest crisis is his very crappy song that's not even mixed well. It's a terrible arrangement. It's not mixed well at all. It sounds crappy. Sounds like it was meaning garage band, which I say is a former. Former professional drummer. Someone in the substack chat said, please say that's not real. I forget that maybe our substack audience, who we love so much, is not as Exvangelical as our YouTube audience. We assure you, tragically, that this is so real. This very. I knew.

[April Joy]

I knew like this in church.

[Tim Whitaker]

For sure. For sure. This looks theore, bro.

[Simon]

Look.

[April Joy]

To pretend I'm Alpha.

[Tim Whitaker]

This look is. It will tell you so many things about a man. Oh, I hate to even do that. But it's true. It's true.

[April Joy]

Okay, I feel like we need to preface it by, like, my answer to that problem. If you're not a Christian, that's just kind of like this mountain man.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, yeah.

[April Joy]

Denver, Colorado look. Nothing wrong with that. But if there's a Christian man who has that look, you can almost guarantee they're a misogynist Christian nationalist, alpha male, self described.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah.

[April Joy]

That hates women.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, hates. I mean, as you heard, the biggest problem facing our country, it's.

[Guest or Listener]

It's.

[Tim Whitaker]

Guys, it's not ice. It's not a megalomaniac sexual assaulter in the White House burying the Epstein files. No, no, no, no. It's not the unaffordable health care crisis. It's not the unaffordable education crisis. It's not the wage crisis. The biggest problem is that we have women in this country who have gone to college,

[April Joy]

which they are. They are in a way, admitting to something that they may not realize they're admitting to, and that is that when women educate themselves, they're a lot harder to turn into doormats.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes. And blow up dolls.

[April Joy]

Yeah, yeah. Women. Educated women who learn how to think for themselves are not going to submit to idiotic men.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right. And think that giving their vote up is a good idea.

[April Joy]

Yeah. Oh,

[Guest or Listener]

okay.

[Tim Whitaker]

I think we had one more super chat. Come in. Let me take a look. Yeah.

[Christy from Lululemon]

Excuse me.

[Tim Whitaker]

From Deanna. Testosterone is a steroid. There you go. That's from Dr. Deanna.

[April Joy]

You know, I actually was going to say that it is a steroid, but in my head I was like, I don't remember for sure if that is what that is in the. So anyway, thank you for the. Thank you for clarifying.

[Tim Whitaker]

All right, friends, well, I think we're out of time. We've. We've done enough. We've covered enough things for One for One Live. We do go live every Thursday, 12:00 Eastern on YouTube and with our friends over at Lincoln Square Media via substack. If you're looking for a better path forward in your faith, maybe you're a Christian and you're like, you know, What? I can't take it. I can't take this Trump thing. You are not alone. You're not alone. The new evangelicals exist for people just like you to help you find a better path forward in faith, rooted in. In love, justice, and inclusion. TNE Connect is our community space. It's totally free. There are a ton of free resources and classes that we do. There's book club, there's a feed, there's a social media feed. There are regional group chats. It's all there. It's all free. TheNewEvangelicals.com connect or TNE connect on the App Store or Google Play Store. Okay, I think that's all we got. All right, well, on that note, I am Tim Whitaker.

[April Joy]

And I'm April Joy.

[Tim Whitaker]

We'll see you next week.

[April Joy]

Bye.