← The Tim & April Show
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You're listening to a new evangelicals production.
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A
The Tim and April show, where we unravel faith, politics and culture. Hi, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Tim and April Show. I'm April.
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C
I'm Tim Whitaker.
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A
And today we are going to talk about. Shocker. Christian nationalism.
- [01:06]
C
No. On this show. No way.
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A
I, I know.
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C
It's not like, it's not like you've written a book about it or anything like that, you know, so.
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A
Oh, yeah. But the book is called Star Spangled Jesus. You can get it wherever books are sold.
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C
Today we are going to hone in on the Edge. Wow. Excuse me.
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A
Not today, Satan.
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C
Wow. Yeah. I rebuke the devil. Today we are going to focus in on the Edge, on the war on education. That's what we're talking about today. Because Christian nationalists are at war with everything in America and education is no exception. In fact, it's arguably.
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A
Isn't education one of the seven mountains?
- [01:46]
C
It is, April. It is the seven mountain mandate. One of them is education, which we've covered. We've covered on the show before. Lance Wall now popularized this. Right. Essentially, it says that Christians have an obligation to take over the seven mountains of influence. What is it? It's like government, religion, education, business, the arts, et cetera. There's a few, there's two others. And so, yes, education is one of the seven mountains that are. That, that Christians are aiming at right now. However, this is not a new thing. I think one of the most important things we have to keep mentioning is that none of this is new. None of this is happening because of Trump. Trump is simply ripping the band aid off and showing us what's been underneath the surface for a long, long time.
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D
The war is.
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A
Trump is like the vehicle that Christian nationalists have crawled into to use to get access to power.
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C
They've been there, though, on their little tricycles, squeaking along until Trump gave them a fricking Ferrari to hop in and just zoom at miles an hour or a jet, whatever. And maybe, maybe it was given to them by the, by the guitarist Is that the right.
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A
You don't say.
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C
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So anyway, so just a quick, a quick, a quick brief overview. Brief. The war education comes from the, like. Well, the modern expression of the war education comes from like the 1950s, 1960s. A man named R.J. rush Dooney, who develops this idea of Christian reconstruction, believes that we should replace American law with Old Testament law. He's the one who really starts to popularize. Hey, public education is really a Marxist indoctrination center and Christians should pull their kids out of those places. And also we should dismantle public education. That is where this war on education begins. And of course, it takes a lot of twists and turns out American history. You have the homeschooling movement. When integration happened, private schools skyrocketed for, for, for white students. In fact, I actually tracked the data one time. You can see when Brown v. Board was decided. You can see an explosion of white only private schools in this country. Okay. And then you also have the homeschool movement that most people think that the homeschool movement was popularized by, or it was created by conservative Christians, but it wasn't. It was actually. This is true. It was, it was actually created by a Marxist who saw modern education as oppressive to students because they were in these classrooms all day sitting, being indoctrinated into capitalism. So this guy, I forgot his name, he kind of starts the idea of homeschooling your kids to get them out of these capitalist indoctrination centers and eventually the right wing hijacks it and makes it what it is today. Okay, so, so this has been going on for a long time. I was homeschooled as a child. I went to a small private school after that. I was taught that, you know, if I went to public school, I'd be indoctrinated. This is a very, very typical thing that is happening in white evangelicalism and has been for, for a very long time.
- [04:54]
A
Oh yeah, and it's, it's really interesting too, because conservative Christians and nationalists, they love to talk about how public schools will indoctrinate your kids, how the left wants to indoctrinate your kids. And they encourage parents to homeschool or put their kids in private Christian schools to keep them from being indoctrinated. But the really insidious thing is that they end up doing the indoctrinating.
- [05:21]
C
Oh yeah. In those, like hardcore, if I say the word abeka, any former homeschooler gets chills down their spine.
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A
I need Rebecca.
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C
Yeah, me too. And I use Bob Jones. I Use Bob Jones University curriculum. Bob Jones, for those who don't know, they were the college that refused to allow interracial dating. They lost their tax exempt status over it. They sued the IRS, up to the Supreme Court. They lost. And they still maintained their ban on interracial dating until the year 2000. Okay. These are the curriculums that are shaping people like myself in April. It's a real thing.
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A
Not only that, but also just like hardcore purity culture.
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C
Oh, yeah.
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A
I had someone reach out to me who went to Bob Jones and they claimed. So I. Obviously, I didn't go there. Can't verify, but they claimed that when they were there that girls could get in trouble. Young women would get in trouble if they didn't eat a banana with a fork, I believe because of the image,
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C
the phallic image that it elicits. Yeah, well, okay, hold on. Have you ever heard of Pensacola Christian?
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A
Yeah, Pensacola Christian. They tried to recruit me hardcore. I got flyers from them all the time.
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C
People. You think Bob Jones is bad? Pensacola makes Bob Jones look liberal.
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A
They have separate sidewalks.
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C
Yeah, sidewalks for guys and girls. They. I mean, you couldn't listen to even contemporary Christian music. It was hymns only. You were. You are policed to death at Pensacola. Anyway, that's maybe for a different discussion. But my. The point is that this war on education has been a thing. And the reason why it matters is because with this administration, folks like Betsy devos. Is it devoe or devos is silent. Devos.
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A
I feel like it's devos, maybe not.
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C
Betsy devos has been helping to gut our public education institutions. So the Department of Education is being dismantled as we speak. This is all part of the Christian nationalist agenda. Okay? They want the public school system dismantled. Then they want to either offer school choice, right, which we know bankrupts public schools because the money comes from public school funding, or they want to capture the public schools and make them Christian nationalist indoctrination centers. And we have proof of this? I have proof. Today we're going to give you some proof. Yeah. Why don't we start with this video so people can hear from the horse's mouth what it sounds like when some of these radicals say the quiet parts out loud. So I don't know who this guy's name is. Do you know who he is? His name?
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A
I don't.
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C
Yeah, it's on board.
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A
Reverse Google search image.
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C
He's on a show. Real America's Voice. This is Jenna Ellis, talking host. Just the Truth, which is just so ironic how they hijack words like truth. Here's him talking about the kind of revolution he wants to see. Listen to this.
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A
What do you mean by a Judeo Christian revolution?
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D
I mean taking it back to the founding of this country, that this incredible country, United States of America, it was founded on Judeo Christian values, not on radical Muslim values, not on atheism, but. But on Judeo Christian values. And there's so many differentiating factors that differentiate that Judeo Christian ethic from other belief sets. But one of the main differentiators is the acknowledgment of good versus evil and our willingness to fight for good over evil. And right now, Jenna, there's a lot of evil ongoing in the world, but also in this country where the secular left is trying to take God out of everything. And my feeling is, instead of watering down on our Judeo Christian values, we should be doubling down on our Judeo Christian values. We should be instilling God in the classroom, instilling God in the workplace and in all aspects of society.
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C
Okay, so that was Josh Mandel. He's a candidate for U.S. senate.
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A
I will say that was from a few years ago, so I would assume. No, no. Let me, Let me, Let me look it up.
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C
Why don't you fact check that? While you're doing that, let me educate people on something. The term Judeo Christian is a new term. It comes out of, like, the 1930s, 1950s, where it gets popularized. It has nothing to do with the quote unquote, founding of the country. I hate when they use that term to describe the founding when it wasn't. Also, what does Judeo Christian even mean? That's an oxymoron because Judaism and Christianity are. Are largely not compatible world religious systems. They are different for a reason. So it is interesting watching people just say this stuff like it's somehow matter of fact. When you really examine it, there's nothing going on besides propaganda and rhetoric.
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A
Yeah, he lost in the Republican primary in 2022, but he was in the Ohio House of representatives from 2007 to 2011.
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C
Oh, well, he tried. He tried.
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E
Yeah.
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A
But what he's saying is there's a ton of people within the Republican Party and Christian nationalism and pastors and churches that share in this rhetoric. Like the amount of times that not only have I personally heard, but then still see, because they go viral online. Because they go viral online when they say things like public schools, teach your kids to hate God.
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C
Yes.
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A
Which that's almost like verbatim what I've heard pastors see online. And then they'll go viral for that. Because people who do not grow up in this world think that's like the most absurd thing, right, that they could hear. But it is very normal language and rhetoric when you're in those churches. Like, I've heard public schools be referred to as Satan's playground. And I, I, I've probably shared this story on here before, but when I was in seventh grade, I went to public school for the first time. I was homeschooled, right? And then in seventh grade, they're like my parents. My dad became full time pastor. So they're like, go to school. We're here long enough. We're not traveling around the world anymore preaching. We're staying here preaching so you can go to school. And I was so in my head thinking that I was going into the lion's den because of what I had been taught about public schools. And I was gonna be like my dad and stand up for my faith against my atheist teachers. And this was like a small town in Texas. I don't think anyone there was atheist. But it was just wild. Like, I literally went in thinking I was gonna get all this pretty persecution and pushback. And I literally spent hours making a sign to put on my locker that said Jesus saves souls in, like, neon poster board that I cut out because I was going to save the heathens in public school.
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C
Yeah, I believe it.
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A
I got zero pushback. And in fact, people complimented me on my sign.
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C
I was. Were you ever taught that America really went downhill when we kicked God out of public schools? Did you ever hear that rhetoric? You know, like, I was taught that all the time. Like, once we kicked God in the Bible out of public schools, America went down the crapper. But again, like, that's not true. Students can bring Bibles to school. Students can read their Bibles in school. Students can pray. What can happen is teachers mandating that students read the Bible or praying to the Christian God and leading other people in prayer to that God. Right? Because we have a First Amendment. And when you're a public school teacher, you're representing the government. And there has to be a separation between your religious beliefs and your job as a government employee. Right? Because students, other students who aren't Christian also have a First Amendment right not to be subject or forced to, right. Participate in religious beliefs that they would not adhere to. Which, by the way, makes complete sense. That is not radical at all. At all. If you, if you have a classroom of, I don't even know what the average size classroom is. 30 kids, right? And 20 are Christian, two are atheist, one is Jewish, one's Muslim, and like one is, you know, the rest are whatever. Something else. Right. You, as a teacher, do not have the right to mandate that all of these students participate in. In your Christian prayer to your Christian God. That violates their First Amendment rights as well. Because we all get the same rights in theory anyway. But for Christian nationalists, that's just too far. That is the problem with America today is that these other students have First Amendment rights.
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A
Yeah. And they think they, they genuinely believe that. That they're being persecuted.
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C
Oh, totally. They believe they're under attack because they can't do that.
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A
I know it's.
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C
Well, do you remember the Coach Joe Kennedy situation that happened a couple last year, Right. Where essentially he was. He was praying with football players on I think like the 50 yard line, like during games. And he was. He wasn't allowed to do that. And he sued because the. I think it was Alliance Defending Freedom, some Christian nationalist group, like, defended him. And he won. He won his case. And his whole rhetoric was, I just want to go back and coach my kids. But he ended up leaving. And now he tour. He has a whole website. He tours the US talking about religious freedom. It's a complete grift. It's such a grift. Oh, it drives me crazy.
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A
Well, and I. Early on, too early on, when I feel like in interviews he was saying the only thing he wanted was his job back.
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B
Right.
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A
And I feel like they. The court ruled that he could get his job back and he never took it. Nah.
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C
No, look, this is what it is
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A
now he's like, all I want to do, all I want to do is coach football.
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C
Look, he has a whole look. No American should be forced to choose between their faith and the job they love. Hear coach's heart. Here's the book. The inspirational true story of Coach.
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A
It's a great facing the Giants.
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C
Oh, my gosh, this dude's a murderer. Because they said you can't pray with students during football games as a public school coach. Reasonable. Reasonable.
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A
But the people, the people that will defend him and say like he was unlocked, like unjustly fired and that he had every right, like freedom of speech and blah, blah, blah, blah. Are the same people that kicked Colin Kaepernick. Kaepernick out of the NFL For Neil, of course. Own expression and freedom of speech.
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C
Of course. Of course.
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F
It's.
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C
It's rules. It's privilege for the. For me, not for the right. I mean, this was. This would never apply if Coach Joe was a Muslim and he led students in a prayer, a Muslim prayer. As a coach, you think, you think ADF will pick up the case and be like, oh, no, hey, he has a right.
- [16:47]
B
Don't.
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C
No. No person should be forced to choose between his job and his faith. No, they picked up by right wing media and be, oh my gosh, this Muslim is indoctrinating your kids. This is incompatible with Western values. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. All roads point back to Christian nationalist privilege. It's not about religious freedom for all. It's about religious freedom and privilege for them at the expense of everyone else. Right. So with that being said, we want to cover a few stories of how these folks who have been making inroads in government are now starting, starting to really, you know, enact their will in the public school system. I think we should talk about that.
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A
Yeah. And there was a ton of stuff about education within Project 2025.
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C
Yes.
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F
As well.
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C
Totally, totally. This, this is a huge thing.
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A
So only people listened.
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C
If. You know what? We tried.
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A
Some people did.
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C
We really tried.
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A
The country did. So.
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C
So there's, there's a huge play where the angle is some states are trying to essentially make Bible lessons part of the curriculum. Okay. And their angle is, oh, hey, this isn't religious. This is historical. The Bible played a key role in our founding. These Bible stories are historical and they should be taught as such in public schools.
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A
Which is very similar to the evangelical excuse of it's not religion, it's a relationship a hundred percent. I can't be a religious sell it. Yeah, I'm just in communion with God.
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C
I'm not. Hey, this is a. This is all about freedom. I am free in Christ as your burden down with so many regulations and things that you can and can't do. Right. It's. Yes, exactly. It's the same thing. So, like, for example, one of the big stories was Texas. Texas's Board of Education approved narrowly
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E
a
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C
new reading list in 20. I think it takes an effect in 2030 that will require reading from Bible passages ranging from the story of Jonah to selections from Genesis, Psalms and lamentations. And supporters say that the Bible is being taught as an essential work of literature and history rather than as religious doctrine. That's the excuse. Oh, that's the excuse.
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A
So it's so silly.
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C
Well, it's silly and also it takes away. It takes away the freedom of the teacher to teach their kids. Right. No, there is no. As far as I'm aware, there is no law on the books anywhere that says you can't teach a religious from a religious book. A history teacher who's maybe doing ancient history could pull from the Bible. Right. And talk about the history of whatever story they want to talk about. A, a, a world religions teacher could pull from the Bible. Right. This isn't about that. It's not about giving them choice. It's about mandating that students read these select passages that of course, they curate because they're framing it as, this is, this is just works of literature. But really, we know what it's about. They have this belief that we have to become a Christian nation. And the more symbolism, the more things that we can do to make it look like we're a Christian nation, the better off we're going to be.
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A
So in Texas, one of the US Board members, Brandon hall, said during a news conference, and he's one of the people that's been pushing for Texas to teach the Bible in schools.
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C
Yeah.
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A
This is what he said. Right. Quote, we're going to stop watering down American history. We're going to teach the truth. Our nation was founded as a Christian nation and Texas is a Christian state.
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C
Insane.
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A
And it said. That's what he said. A Republican who is, he's also a pastor in Springtown. He said the Bible has had a, quote, remarkable impact on our culture, our societies and our laws, which, I mean, I don't disagree with that because we've had history of Christian nationalists that have conflated Christianity and being American. But notice how he says, we're going to stop watering down American history while being asked about teaching the Bible in school. The Bible has nothing to do nothing with American history. America is not in the Bible whatsoever. And the Constitution is a secular text.
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D
Yes.
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C
Intentionally based off of common English law way more than the Bible. Because guess what? In the Bible, there isn't freedom of speech. People get put to death in the Hebrew Bible for the words that they say. I'm just saying there's no freedom of speech in the Bible. You're not going to find. I mean, you're just not going to find it, especially the Hebrew Bible. I'm just saying.
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A
I know.
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C
You know what? You can get stoned for committing adultery in the Hebrew Bible.
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E
Yeah.
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C
Children can be put to death for disobeying their parents.
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A
Not to mention, like, I'm just saying, can't eat shrimp.
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C
Can't eat shrimp, you and I. The Apostle Paul says it's a shame for a man to have long hair. Last time I checked, you can have long hair in America. Right. Like this I. This is what I. This is what gets me, is like, the idea that somehow our legal system is based on the Bible doesn't actually add up. You can covet your neighbor's wife in America. You can. I'm not saying you should, but you can. You don't have to obey the Sabbath.
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F
In fact.
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C
In fact, this country celebrates people who never stop working. This country says, the harder you work, the richer you're going to be. Which, of course, is a bunch of hogwash. But I'm just saying, like, what biblical principle do we find baked into the fabric of America? American law. Give me one. Give me one. You can worship other gods if you wanted to. I'm just saying, like, it's just propaganda. And also, I want to point out, I think this is a good time, April. The good old Bible, the B, I, B, L, E. Yes, that's the book for me. Oh, you know what? You like that. I just pop that in love. You know, the Bible is not a family friendly collection of documents. It's just not. It's not child friendly. There are many stories that, if they were in any other book, would be on the banned reading list from these Christian nationalists, okay? Including this old gem out of Ezekiel 23. Now I'm just reading the Bible. If someone gets mad at me, it's in the Bible. This is chapter 23. I'll read verses 17 through 20 through 21. Now, I will say there is some explicit language in here, just a trigger warning, but it's in the Bible. Then the Babylonians came to her, to the bed of love and defiled her with their lust. But after she was defiled by them, she turned away from them in disgust. When she flaunted her promiscuity and exposed her nakedness, I turned away from her in disgust, just as I turned away from her sister. Yet she multiplied her acts of promiscuity, remembering the days of her youth when she acted like a prostitute in the land of Egypt and lusted after their lovers whose sexual members were like those of donkeys and whose admission was like that of stallions. So you revisited the indecency of your youth when the Egyptians caressed your nipples to enjoy your youthful breasts. Should that be required reading instructions? Wow.
- [24:15]
A
We should ban.
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C
I feel like this should be on the band.
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A
It needs to be banned. Where's Moms for Liberty when you need them?
- [24:21]
C
Where's the where? Where are they when you need them? And this is clear. This is sexual grooming and indoctrination of children. Clearly you want kids to read this mom and Dad. I mean, April, have you ever considered now that you've deconstructed that even the stories we were taught as kids are like, not for kids. Like the story of Noah's Ark, right? That God killed every single human on the planet besides one family drowning children and babies. And you learned that as a kid, like, somehow it's a good thing. I'm just saying.
- [24:57]
A
I went to the ark encounter in Kentucky a couple years ago. Have you been there?
- [25:02]
C
Nope. Because I live in New Jersey.
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A
Okay. You can drive.
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C
Yes, I'm going to drive to Kentucky, not see you just for the ark encounter.
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A
You could see the ark encounter while you're here.
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C
Could you imagine if I did that? What if I drove to Kentucky, didn't even tell you I was coming, saw the ark encounter, then came home?
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A
Well, listen, honestly, it's not really. It's not worth it. And I don't really want to give them more money anyway. But the point is we went. I went for research and there was this room that is. That was very kid focused and it was like a bunch of Disney looking cartoons and a bunch of happy like animals and people like going onto the ark. Right? And. But what they were trying to say is that it was super weird. They were trying to say that like all these kids books about Noah's ark are actually like, they shouldn't be like these, this happy story because of all the people that died. But also it was happy because God's promised rainbow. They were giving conflicting messages for sure. But the thing that I found so off putting and odd was in this room of all these bright colors and smiling faces, there was this huge plaque on the side of the wall written in like cute little font that said, and everyone died except eight people.
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C
That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. How is that, how it. First of. How is that even, like appropriate anywhere to celebrate, let alone for kids?
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A
And there was. So we didn't take our kids because I'm not doing that to my children. But I saw a mom and had like her three young children in the room when we were in there. And she like took her kids, she's like, look. And everyone died except eight people. Like, wow, God saved. Like, it was so bizarre. Like being on this side of deconstruction and witnessing. That's not okay.
- [27:02]
C
Well, no, I mean, again, like even this idea of, well, God promised never to do it again. Okay, if. If I murdered one of my kids and promised never to do it again, I don't think people, like, people would be like, wow, Tim was so charitable. He promised never to do that again. Guys. Talk about merciful. Are you kidding me here? Are you kidding me? The Bible is not a kid's book. And the stories we were taught, even the story of David and Goliath, David beheads Goliath at the end, or Daniel and the lions. Like, there are just so many stories. Samson and like so many stories. Right. Full of murder and violence and all kinds of stuff that, that the same people who won't even let their kids watch fricking Teletubbies because indoctrination will have their kids read stories about a man named Samson killing X amount of philistines with. With the, with the jawbone of a donkey.
- [27:57]
A
Yeah. And the. But the villain in that story is the. Is the girl.
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C
Oh, of course. No, it's Delilah's fault. Of course. Right, like, and that's the thing is, I don't know how this propaganda is so effective given the fact that once you think through it, it really does fall apart quite quickly. And I say that as a Christian. I'm still very much a Christian. I'm still very much a Jesus person. And I acknowledge the Bible as we have it today. The English Protestant Bible would be a horrible book to use to institute law in America. Be a horrible book. It'd be terrible.
- [28:35]
A
Yeah. I mean, if you. Honestly, I feel like I've kind of lived through a Christian nation on a small scale because I went to Christian college.
- [28:44]
C
Yep.
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A
And the rules that this school had were so stupid. Like, some of the rules were just ridiculous. And honestly, I went through a little bit of a rebellious phase. I was like, I felt like I was in a prison. How bad was it in college? And they treated us like we were children. Like, for example, I mean, and some of the laws were stupid. Like rules for the sake of rules and like these spiritual tests, like who can be holier than the other person? And everyone was trying to out spiritual each other. It was a Pentecostal school. It was Assemblies of God school. So that probably was a little different too. But like, we weren't allowed to watch PG13 movies in the lobbies. It had to be G or pg. And we were in college. And R rated movies weren't allowed at all.
- [29:34]
C
No.
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A
And in fact, we got a $25 fine because we had a blood diamond poster which is an R rated movie.
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C
Oh my gosh.
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A
We didn't even have the movie. We just had the poster. And they're like, yeah, you have to take that down. But we were allowed to watch the Passion of the Christ. Of course. R rated.
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C
You can watch a man get beat to a bloody pulp without shying away. The camera doesn't shy away at all. That's totally fine. But you can't watch. I don't even know whatever movie you would want to watch.
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A
You couldn't even. We couldn't wear tank tops. Like, tank tops had to be. I think it was like four fingers across, not just on campus. If someone caught you off campus in a spaghetti strap, you could get a fine. It was so stupid.
- [30:18]
C
That is crazy. That is crazy foreign.
- [30:26]
F
Hey, everyone, this is Melinda Hale, the executive director of the New Evangelicals. Listen. Every day we hear from people who feel isolated, disillusioned, and hurt by a version of Christianity that has been hijacked by politics and nationalism. And yet they still long for a faith that is rooted in love, justice, and compassion. And that's why the New Evangelicals exist, because we believe there is a better path forward. We're creating resources, hosting conversations, and we're building communities for people who want to reclaim Christianity and stay rooted in the teachings of Jesus. But building a movement like this takes time. It takes energy, and it takes financial support. So if this podcast or our YouTube, our educational offerings or community space or anything that we've created has impacted you, would you consider becoming a donor? Even a gift of $5 makes a huge difference from. For small organizations like this. Your support helps us to continue empowering people to put their faith into action by rejecting Christian nationalism and to live in a way that shows people how to truly love our neighbors. Together. I know that we could build something beautiful. So visit thenewevangelicals.com support to give today. You can find the link right in our show notes. Thank you for standing with us.
- [31:38]
E
Hi, My name is Leanne. I live in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. I'm 65 years old, and both my husband and I grew up in a fairly conservative evangelical church. But about 20 years ago, we began to question some of the teachings in that church, and we embarked on our own process of deconstruction and reconstruction. Although it didn't have a name at the time, and we have recently started attending a wonderful church that is fully affirming and fully inclusive of our LGBTQ siblings in Christ. And we absolutely love it. It's the best faith experience of our lives. And I so appreciate Tim and the New Evangelicals team. I so appreciate the online resource. And I have become a donor because I believe so strongly in the really important work they're doing. And I would encourage anyone listening to consider doing the same. Thank you.
- [32:45]
C
Well, I'm looking at the other article that I wanted to pull up about. How about Utah as well? There are other ones.
- [32:52]
A
Oh, yeah. Well, Louisiana passed the Ten Commandments law where it's displayed in schools.
- [33:00]
C
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So another state is requiring students to study the Bible. This is Utah. So Utah, I think is. One of the differences is that Utah is making this a law. It's not just going through the education side. I think it's like it's making an actual law in the land for that. Schools teach certain passages from the Bible that are quote, cited or alluded to in founding documents.
- [33:21]
A
Yeah. I don't know what they're talking. What, what, what, what would that be?
- [33:24]
C
As well as Bible stories that shape Colonial American political thought in grades three through 12. The changes take effect in the 28th, 29th school year.
- [33:35]
A
You know what, I will say that. I mean, it's, I think it's very telling that they're picking specific passages of scripture to teach children.
- [33:50]
C
Yeah.
- [33:50]
A
Because.
- [33:52]
C
Yeah.
- [33:53]
A
A teacher who actually like, genuinely knows the Bible, not like the evangelical heavily cherry picked version, but someone who objectively reads the Bible. There's a way to teach the Bible to children that turns those children into raging socialists.
- [34:11]
C
Yeah, yeah. And Marxists who hate capitalism. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, just go read James 5. You know, it's, it's, it's right there. Or the words of Jesus.
- [34:20]
A
Right. Like you can easily flip this on its head. Which again, I'm not, I'm not going to argue for, because I think we should have a clear separation of church and state. But there's a lot of loopholes you could jump through.
- [34:33]
C
I'm just really wondering.
- [34:34]
A
Fire on Republicans.
- [34:36]
C
I'm just really wondering what passages are cited or alluded to in the founding documents, like in our Constitution. Nothing. In our Declaration of Independence. All it says about religion is that people are endowed with rights by their creator, not our creator, their creator. That, that is very indescript and doesn't, doesn't mean the Christian God inherently at all. I, they're just, you're dealing with people
- [34:59]
A
that are narcissistic and believe that the world revolves around their religion, like quite literally. So you hear creator and you're like, oh, that obviously means a God of the Bible. So we can talk about Genesis 1, right?
- [35:14]
C
Exactly. Yeah. This is what we've been trying to warn people of for so long is like in. And some people might say, well, Tim, you're being kind of extreme here. Like, it's just about teaching it as historical or a literary text. That's the beginning. The fact that they are mandating this stuff. It's one step at a time. Look at how far we've come since Trump in 2016 to now. Think about how many things are normalized. Proud boys are a household name. Nick Fuentes is well known in the space. We have a man who incited insurrection now running the country again, like so many things, he was also blocking the Epstein files being released.
- [35:57]
A
Yeah.
- [35:58]
C
So many things that we would be appalled at in 2014 are normalized now. That's how it works. It's one step at a time. Right. First it's just, we're a Christian country. Then it's, oh, let's get the Ten Commandments posted everywhere in public schools now. It's, oh, let's make sure that teachers are required to teach parts of the Bible to students.
- [36:20]
A
Yeah.
- [36:20]
C
And then from there it goes to, let's make sure that we have an official religious class taught in public schools. And that religious class is the religion of Christian nationalism. That's the encroachment.
- [36:34]
A
Like, listen, I'm totally okay with elective religious classes that people can elect into, like, teaching, like, the world religions and what they believe and like, the history of those religions. Like, that should absolutely be allowed if people want to learn about that. But the problem is they don't want other religions. It's only been one all versions of Christianity. They just want their narrow version interpretation of Scripture being taught as absolute truth when it's absolutely not Right.
- [37:06]
C
It's kind of like how they use the word free speech, but free speech only really applies to them. Right. Do you remember back in the day when there was a big hubbub that Twitter was a liberal indoctrination camp that was censoring conservatives, and now that Elon Musk, a white supremacist, runs the runs X or Twitter, whatever, he has censored and banned so many liberal creators and journalists from the platform. And suddenly the same people crying about freedom of speech have nothing to say. Right. It's the same thing with this. They're going to use terms that sound palatable. Oh, this is just for education. It's just history. It's just literature. But they don't mean that. What they actually mean is, we're a Christian nation. The Bible must be taught to everyone, including our children in public schools and. And must be prioritized. Right. And privileged over any other religious text. They're never gonna Advocate for the Quran being taught as literature and history. They're never gonna advocate for that because ultimately they don't think it deserves that kind of status. But the Bible does.
- [38:09]
E
It's just.
- [38:10]
C
It's clear as day what they're doing.
- [38:13]
A
Yeah. Yep. Rules for thee, not for me.
- [38:17]
C
Yes, exactly. So anyway, we just wanted to maybe. I don't know how much more there is to talk about this, but it is happening, friends. Christian nationalism is waves against the shore. They are going to beat that shore as much as possible and keep eroding and eroding and eroding and eroding unless they are really stopped. And every inch we give them, they will take a mile. And again, the fact of the matter is that we have a major problem with education. Our systems are being dismantled, funding is
- [38:47]
A
being cut, and there is a bit of a literary crisis. Major happening.
- [38:53]
C
Major.
- [38:53]
A
And the answer for that is not sticking the ten Commandments on the wall.
- [38:57]
C
Yes.
- [38:57]
A
So six year olds aren't out there committing adultery.
- [39:00]
C
Yes. Yes. I'm looking up, I'm kind of curious really quick. I believe that the most. Let's take a look here. Yeah, I mean, a lot of. I'm looking at the most and least educated states in America. And there is a trend between red states and blue states. Like, number one, education is Massachusetts. Number two is Vermont, Maryland, Connecticut, Colorado, New Jersey. That's my state. Then down the bottom, after the bottom 25, we have things like, let's see, South Carolina, Tennessee, Indiana, Texas. Number 41.
- [39:39]
A
What are they ranked? What's their rank?
- [39:40]
C
Alabama's 43, Texas is 41, West Virginia's 50, Mississippi's 49, 49th, Arkansas's 47th. Like, there's a clear distinction here. And that matters. That matters. These people who tell you about education do not actually care about education. They care about indoctrination. There's just no way around it, period.
- [40:01]
A
Right. They want to teach you what to think and not how to think.
- [40:05]
C
Yes, yes.
- [40:06]
A
And that actually it like, has a major impact on your natural development.
- [40:11]
C
Yes, yes, absolutely. So anywho. So there's that.
- [40:15]
A
Anywho.
- [40:16]
C
Anywho.
- [40:17]
A
Hey, you know what, Can I just say high five to us because we grew up in this world.
- [40:22]
C
Yep.
- [40:22]
A
And got out.
- [40:23]
C
We made it out.
- [40:24]
A
Which. And if you didn't grow up in this world, that's not an easy thing to do and like that. I'm not trying to pat ourselves on the back. But if you grew up in this world too, and you made it out, and you can see the indoctrination for what it is. Like, I really think you should feel good about that and give yourself the grace for the people we used to be. Because a good chunk of people never make it out.
- [40:48]
C
No.
- [40:49]
A
It's like, it's just no small thing to change your mind.
- [40:52]
C
Curiosity is the thread that you have to keep pulling, Right. If you're a curious person, I think eventually you're gonna make it out. But if you're not, if you're just content, you'll never make it out because why would you change? It's comfortable. It's comfortable to think that you have everything figured out, that you're on the side of God, that there's. It's good versus evil. It's indoctrination versus freedom. It's easy to think in those binaries, you know? So if you're not a curious person, you'll just stay. You'll just stay.
- [41:15]
A
Yeah.
- [41:16]
C
Yeah. Anyway, friends, well, thanks so much for being here. It means the world. As always, make sure to like and subscribe if you're watching on YouTube and make sure to follow us if you're listening on podcasts. We go live every Thursday, 12 o' clock Eastern on YouTube and with our friends over on Substack via Lincoln Square Media reminder, we are taking the month of August off, which I think is this our last one before our break. April. No, we have one more. I think. I think we have one more.
- [41:42]
A
Yeah.
- [41:43]
C
Yes, we have one more episode. So. All right. So we are getting close to the end before we go on break, but we have some stuff lined up.
- [41:50]
A
Don't worry, we actually have a few more episodes. Well, we have one more pre record.
- [41:55]
C
Yeah, that's what I meant. Yeah, yeah, yeah. One more prerecord.
- [41:59]
A
We'll be here through the end of the month.
- [42:01]
C
All right, friends. Well, I'm Tim Whitaker.
- [42:02]
A
And I'm April Ajoy.
- [42:04]
C
I'll see you.
- [42:05]
A
Bye.