16. White Victimhood and Race-Baiting - Trump's Mission to Save White Africans

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Tim & April Show – Episode 16: White Victimhood and Race-Baiting - Trump's Mission to Save White Africans

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Tim & April Show
• Host/Author: The New Evangelicals
• Description: Where we unravel faith, politics, and culture.
• Episode: 16. White Victimhood and Race-Baiting - Trump's Mission to Save White Africans
• Release Date: May 16, 2025

---

Introduction

Tim and April kick off the episode by addressing recent events, including the announcement of a new American Pope, highlighting his progressive stances despite some areas needing growth. They express initial optimism about his anti-MAGA stance but quickly segue into broader discussions about Christian nationalism, evangelical support for Donald Trump, and the perpetuation of racist narratives.

Trump and the New Pope

• Tim ([02:29]-[03:44]): Discusses the newly elected Pope Leo from Chicago, noting his anti-MAGA stance and progressive views on social issues and immigration. Tim remarks, “He’s anti MAGA and I think that deserves a celebration because it could have been worse” ([03:07]).

• April ([03:44]-[03:58]): Acknowledges the novelty of having an anti-MAGA Pope, adding, “It's kind of wild that we're here at this point where just being anti MAGA, we're like, oh my God, what a win. Like a breath of fresh air” ([03:44]).

Tiredness of Fighting Evangelical Support for Trump

• Tim ([07:31]-[10:49]): Reflects on a decade-long effort to counter evangelical support for Trump, expressing fatigue and diminishing hope for change. He shares a personal epiphany: “I have been calling out evangelicals for supporting Trump now for 10 years, for a whole decade. And I just realized that last night... that's why I'm so tired” ([07:31]).

• April ([08:22]-[10:49]): Resonates with Tim’s exhaustion, recounting her own decade-long struggle against Trump’s appeal to white evangelicals. She emphasizes the persistence needed: “More than ever. It's arguably more important than ever” ([09:43]).

Refugee Policies and the White Genocide Narrative

• Tim ([16:53]-[22:31]): Critiques Trump administration’s refugee policies, highlighting the preferential treatment of white South African Afrikaners under false claims of white genocide. He presents data debunking these claims, stating, “There is white supremacy” and “These people are privileged over people who are really suffering” ([22:31]).

• April ([19:05]-[22:31]): Expands on the racism embedded in these policies, arguing that labeling white South Africans as victims is a facade for promoting white supremacy. She connects this to broader themes of Christian nationalism: “This is why we say this is racism on full display” ([19:17]).

Christian Nationalism and White Evangelical Support

• Tim ([28:11]-[29:35]): Highlights Matt Walsh’s rhetoric comparing current white evangelical support for Trump to historical racist movements, asserting, “Welcome to the party of the KKK” ([29:35]).

• April ([29:35]-[32:10]): Confronts the normalization of white supremacist language within evangelical spaces, stressing the danger of these ideologies being mainstreamed.

Elon Musk’s AI and Spread of Misinformation

• Tim ([29:35]-[32:10]): Points out how Elon Musk’s AI, Grok, has been instructed to accept the white genocide narrative in South Africa, exacerbating misinformation: “It's from Fortune... Grok is bringing up white genocide to unprompted references on X” ([30:21]).

• April ([32:10]-[34:17]): Links the spread of conspiracy theories like QAnon’s origins in South Africa to the current misinformation campaigns, underscoring their roots in white supremacist ideology.

Fascism, Government Policies, and Suspension of Habeas Corpus

• Tim & April ([49:36]-[58:49]): Deep dive into the Trump administration’s authoritarian tendencies, including discussions on suspending habeas corpus and undermining judicial checks. They highlight Stephen Miller’s advocacy for such measures, equating these actions to steps toward fascism:
  • Stephen Miller ([49:42]-[50:11]): States, “We are actively looking at suspending habeas corpus...”
  • April ([53:38]-[58:49]): Warns of the broader implications, stating, “They are going to come for their political opponents” ([58:25]).

Impact on Middle and Lower Class

• Tim ([45:23]-[49:00]): Criticizes the GOP’s budget cuts to Medicaid, emphasizing the detrimental effects on healthcare access for millions, including his own family:

  • “The GOP budget bill with the cuts to Medicaid... could lead to 10.3 million people losing coverage” ([45:23]).

• April ([47:38]-[49:00]): Shares personal insights on the potential loss of healthcare, highlighting the importance of affordable healthcare over marginal tax deductions.

Gender Roles and Toxic Masculinity

• Tim & April ([73:27]-[82:13]): Transition to a more personal discussion on gender roles, critiquing the toxic masculinity promoted by right-wing leaders like Josh Hawley and Eric Metaxas. They argue against patriarchal norms and emphasize the need for equity and mutual respect in relationships.

• April ([78:09]-[82:13]): Advocates for shared responsibilities in relationships and counters the notion that men must embody traditional, oppressive masculine roles.

Theological Issues: Calvinism and Beliefs about God

• Tim & April ([91:04]-[101:25]): Engage in a theological debate about Calvinist doctrines, free will, and the nature of God. They express disillusionment with the concept of divine predetermination and eternal conscious torment, questioning the compatibility of a benevolent, omnipotent God with the existence of suffering and evil:
  • Tim ([95:03]-[96:14]): Shares personal struggles reconciling belief in a good God with the reality of suffering.
  • April ([96:15]-[101:25]): Critiques the evangelical insistence on inerrant scripture and highlights the hypocrisy in advocating for a performative Christianity that contradicts the teachings of Jesus.

Conclusion

Tim and April wrap up the episode by reiterating their frustration with the intertwining of Christianity and white supremacist politics. They call for greater accountability within evangelical circles and emphasize the importance of addressing systemic issues over perpetuating harmful narratives. The hosts encourage listeners to stay informed, engage in meaningful dialogue, and take action against the rising tide of authoritarianism and racism.

Notable Quotes

• Tim: “Trump is not a good Christian person. Trump is not a Christian, you know, embodiment of, of any kind of Christianity that is healthy.” ([08:22])

• April: “White House Deputy Press Secretary Anna Kelly criticized the decision as raising, quote, serious concerns about it, the church's supposed commitment to humanitarian aid.” ([43:52])

• Tim: “This is what happens when you build on lie after lie after lie after lie.” ([26:41])

• April: “If you have, if you're asking yourself like, oh, I want to find a young woman that I can take care of, you know, the question should be, I want to find a woman that I can partner with and help empower her as she empowers me.” ([88:30])

• Tim: “You've never been to church. Like, oh my gosh, my dad, my grandfather, both were pastors. I went to church multiple times a week my entire freaking life.” ([98:54])

---

Disclaimer: This summary is based on the provided transcript and aims to accurately reflect the discussions and viewpoints expressed by the hosts, Tim and April, during Episode 16 of "The Tim & April Show." The podcast delves into sensitive and polarizing topics, presenting a critical perspective on current political and religious dynamics.

Transcript

[Tim]

Starting a business can seem like a daunting task unless you have a partner like Shopify. They have the tools you need to.

[April]

Start and grow your business.

[Tim]

From designing a website to marketing to selling and beyond, Shopify can help with everything you need. There's a reason millions of companies like Mattel, Heinz and Allbirds continue to trust and use them. With Shopify on your side, turn your.

[April]

Big business idea into Sign up for.

[Tim]

Your $1 per month [e-mail] specialoffer PMS, pregnancy, menopause being a woman is a lot. Ollie supports you and yours with expert solutions for every age and life stage. They just launched two new products exclusively at Walmart. Period. Hero Combats, Bloat, mood swings and more during PMS and balance perimeno to support hormonal balance, mood and metabolism during perimenopause. Grab [e-mail] these statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.

[April]

Subtle results still you, but with fewer lines Botox Cosmetic Adobotulinum toxinae is a prescription medicine used to temporarily make moderate to severe frown lines, crow's feet and forehead lines look better in adults. Effects of Botox Cosmetic may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. Alert your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems or muscle weakness may be a sign of a life threatening condition. Patients with these conditions before injection are at highest risk. Don't receive Botox Cosmetic if you have a skin infection. Side effects may include allergic reactions, injection site pain, headache, eyebrow and eyelid drooping and eyelid swelling. Allergic reactions can include rash, welts, asthma symptoms and dizziness. Tell your doctor about medical history, muscle or nerve conditions including ALS or Lou Gehrig's disease, myasthenia gravis or Lambert Eden syndrome and medications including botulinum toxins as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. For full safety information, visit botoxcosmetic.com or call 877-351-0300. See for [e-mail] you're listening to a.

[Tim]

New Evangelicals production, the Tim and April show, where we unravel faith, politics and culture. Hi everybody.

[April]

Hello. Hi.

[Tim]

Happy Thursday.

[April]

Happy Thursday.

[Tim]

Today's Thursday, right? Yeah. We're already halfway through May.

[April]

I know, I know.

[Tim]

I don't know what's happening. It's this whole, whole world. You know what? One thing that last week when we were live, they announced the new Pope while we were live in real Time and we were able to get a name, but we didn't know much about him, so we didn't talk about it then. But he's an American Pope from Chicago. He's a White Sox fan and there's a tweet of his going around where he calls J.D. vance wrong. And that's kind of fun.

[April]

It's, you know, we need the win. Wherever we can get a win, we need one. I will take it. It's a win, right?

[Tim]

And like, is he perfect? No, no, no, no, of course he's not. Pope Leo is the name. And you know, he got, he has some room for growth when it comes, especially when it comes to queer issues and other things, but he's still pretty progressive on social issues and immigrants and I, I think Gaza too, I feel like he stood up for them as well. And so, you know, and he's anti Maga and I think, I think that deserves a celebration because it could have been worse. There were some right wing pope potential popes in the running that would have been very bad. And so I think this is, you know, we got to celebrate the small wins.

[April]

It is, it's kind of wild that we're here at this point where just being anti Maga, we're like, oh my God, what a win. Like a breath of fresh air. But yes, I mean, it's true.

[Tim]

Well, we'll take it like, oh, well, he's, he's against Nazis.

[April]

We're like, yes, guys, this is crazy. But he doesn't believe that the 2020 election was stolen. Oh my God, I can't believe it. That's mind blowing. I mean, that's like where we're at, you know, in America at this point. But anyway, welcome in friends. Welcome into the Tim and April Show. I'm Tim. That is April. We go live every, what, Thursday at 12:00 Eastern. And we do other content on this YouTube channel and also on podcasts every Monday. We are currently in the middle of a deep dive on Christian nationalism. So make sure to subscribe to the channel. Make sure to give this video a like, it helps. Tell YouTube, get it out to more people. And honestly, I gotta say it is very fun. Well, okay, let me just do some. Can I do a real talk for a minute just to the audience and to, to you, April. I like building digital communities around these lives. It's a lot of fun. I like seeing the same people show up into the chat. It's enjoyable for me and I know it doesn't fully replace in person community and Belonging, we all need that in our own life. But in the digital world, it's fun to carve out something that's just kind of our little space with the audience where they can interact in real time. So I love going live. And a sincere thank you to all of you for making it possible. Without you, these lives would not be fun at all. But you make them fun. So thanks.

[Tim]

Yeah. And if you're here, like, the video, that helps a lot and do all the little things. Subscribe. You know, do you ever feel like, etc.

[April]

Do you ever feel like, April, you're just always groveling to get people to do what you want them to do, but you feel bad doing that, but also you need them to do it. Like, I feel bad having to say please, like the video every 35 seconds. But also, if we don't do that, people won't, and that will kill the potential of this video reaching new folks. So. I don't know. It's a weird cycle.

[Tim]

I know. I don't like asking people for help in general.

[April]

Oh. Whenever I do, like, donation asks on the new evangelicals, I just, I. Because I know a lot of us come from evangelical world. A lot of us, you know, we're. We're so attuned to someone asking for money. It just always feels kind of sus. But also, at the same time, as a nonprofit, to make this show possible and our other content possible, donations are the only way that we can do it. So it's like a. Yeah, it's just a weird situation. I'm like, I swear, it's just to make this work possible. There's. I don't live in a mansion. I'm living in my guests or I'm working out of my guest bedroom. If you give five bucks a month and we all chip in, we can do it.

[Tim]

Yeah, no, I totally get that. I don't know about you. Okay. I had this epiphany last night that I wanted to talk to you about, so I. I've been feeling really tired lately. Part of it's the. The seasonal allergies. I. I know for. For sure. But, like, every new headline, and we're going to talk about some other just insane headlines in this episode in. In just a few minutes. But I. I've before, like, you know, several years ago, I would be the first to, like, make a video on the latest headline of something that Trump's doing and, and calling out to Christians of like, hello, Hello? Are you. Like, this is not okay. This is not something Christ followers should be okay with. We should be speaking up, you know, mostly falling on deaf ears. And you know, we've talked so many times how white evangelicals still overwhelmingly support everything that Donald Trump is doing. And you know, I've seen some newer people that come into the content creator space that are like dishing out videos left and right and they, they are doing amazing and I love it, right? And like, every once in a while there's this little piece of me that's like, why am I not doing that anymore? Like, why, why do I not have the same, like, energy to do it? You know what I realized?

[April]

Tell me. Give me the secret.

[Tim]

I have been calling out evangelicals for supporting Trump now for 10 years, for a whole decade. And I just realized that last night, 2015, I was sitting in my CBN cubicle hearing all the creep Christians around me talk about how they were going to support Donald Trump and me. And like, why? Because I've been doing this for 10 years. That's why I'm so tired, you know, and it's like, and I remember too, when they first, we first came on the scene, it's like, oh, he's just a baby Christian. He's going to get better. He's, he's not really racist. He's just misunderstood. He did not get better. He has gotten consistently worse over the last 10 years.

[April]

Gosh, that hits April, because same, I mean, I never voted for Trump. And I also, I had a previous podcast before I started the new evangelicals. It was more moderate, my friends were more conservative. But we all agree that Trump was bad. And so same, I've been publicly calling out Trump and this white evangelical move towards making him their new messiah for a decade. And you're right, I'm tired. And also, okay, this is all friends. This is very much impromptu, but let's have the conversation, April, with an audience. I think that helps maybe humanize us on this end of a little bit. First off, shout out to Monty Mader. Okay? We both know Monty. She's blowing up on Instagram. I see her energy and I'm like, I remember those days. I remember being fired up at everything and just posting non stop. And now I feel like I keep saying the same thing over and over again. Like, how many different ways can I say the same thing? Trump is not a good Christian person. Trump is not a Christian, you know, embodiment of, of, of any kind of Christianity that is healthy. We have to stop Christian nationalism. Rinse and repeat. And I agree. I, it's, I see it, I'M like, okay, I guess I'll say the same thing again. And it's. It's a lot. It's been a long time. A lot of videos, a lot of podcasts, a lot of these conversations, you know?

[Tim]

Right. Yeah. And I think part of it, too, is, like, we go. We do this show twice a week. We go live, you know, once a week. So maybe that I'm, you know, I'm putting more of my outlet in longer form content.

[April]

Yeah, same.

[Tim]

But I just, like, I don't. I know, like, when it first happened, you know, I had this, like, this energy of, like, we can change it. I know if my fellow evangelicals just saw what I saw, like, could see Trump for who he is, that they would change. Like, and then I had this, like, passion of, like, I know the truth, we could change it. He's a terrible human being. He's misleading people. He's, you know, weaponizing Christianity. They just need to see it and they will change. And I. I think it's just, you know, maybe it's just the reality of accepting, I don't know, that a lot of these people are going to change ever. You know, people off the streets, they're ripping babies away from mother's arms for daring to not be born in America. I don't know what it's going to take for these evangelical Christians to stop supporting Donald Trump.

[April]

I'm with you. And I think what was frustrating for me in the beginning kind of like you, I'm like, guys, look, this doesn't line up with our own values, right? This doesn't line up with the fruit of the spirit or the teachings of Jesus because we're on the same page, right? We're both Christians. We are full Jesus people. So I'm not arguing from a place of I no longer believe. I'm arguing from a place of I believe emphatically that this is the way that we're supposed to live as Christians. And so if we would agree on the teachings of Jesus and even the Bible, how do we come to such difficult, different conclusions? And I agree with you. It was so in the beginning, like, look, we can shift, right, guys, Jesus says, welcome the immigrant. Trump hates immigrants. Okay, there's a problem. But now it's like, just a full embodiment of everything that Trump is. Right? And it's a celebration of the fact, like you said, that we are literally ripping toddlers away from their parents. I'm not sure if you saw the most recent article from Rolling Stone. I saw a tweet of it. But essentially there's allegations that in a recent quote, unquote raid, ICE staged it to bait the mother out by using her child against her to get her arrested. Now, we have to confirm that. So we'll keep you apprised, maybe next week on that story. But that's a headline that I saw from Rolling Stone. So again, Trump has a 72% approval rating with white evangelicals in his first hundred days in office. I think after a decade of having these conversations, it's not that I've thrown in the towel of, like, we're not going to do this work anymore because obviously we need to do it. I think more than ever. It's arguably more important than ever. But when it comes to white evangelicals, I. I'm just so done trying to convince them that, like, you know, what they're doing is so antichrist, like, because there's nothing I can do. If you look at what's happening at this administration right now and go, this is what God would want. We worship different gods. We are on different sides of history. And it seems like you really have no red line. Don't forget April in January, Elon Musk and that so called priest, Calvin whatever his name is, were giving Nazi salutes on stage. And white evangelicals were like, well, I mean, did he really mean that? I mean, he was just kind of giving us like, what are you talking about? Like, it's happening right in front of you. So that's a great astute point because I am tired too. I feel that sense of, like, drain and I don't have the same kind of energy to be like, respond on Instagram. Respond on Instagram. And also to your point, I'm putting more effort in long form. Things like this, I think are more important long term anyway, and there's just not enough bandwidth to do both for me.

[Tim]

Anyway, on one hand, I was kind of relieved of, like, oh, that's why I'm tired, because I've been doing this for a whole decade now. But then on the other hand, I was like, oh, my gosh, I've been doing this for a decade.

[April]

Okay, we're old. How old are you, April?

[Tim]

Oh, my. How old am I? Yeah, rude. Oh, I'm 37. I'm 37.

[April]

I'm 36. Yeah, yeah.

[Tim]

It's like been doing this since I was 27. Jeez Louise. All right. One of the. Speaking of atrocious things, Donald Trump is doing, I mean, I guess on one hand you could say he did find a type of immigrant that he's willing to welcome.

[April]

Are we going there right now? No. Golf tracker.

[Tim]

Yeah, I guess we need a golf track. It just felt like such a good segue. We can do the golf, golf track real quick.

[April]

Let me just pull it up. I want to be consistent. Okay, so.

[Tim]

10 years.

[April]

So the current Trump golf tracking update is he's spending 20% of his time golfing. So it is going down. We were at a high, I think of like almost 25%. And now we're at 20.87% gone.

[Tim]

Way down.

[April]

115 days in office, 24 days spent golfing. That's.

[Tim]

I mean, he is in the Middle east right now accepting jet gifts.

[April]

What is up with. That's the April. That is why we're exhausted. Because if that was Biden, if Biden went to. Was a Qatar and accepted a jumbo jet from that government, we all know that everyone would be up in arms. Democrats would be furious. Right wing media, media would be losing it. And. Yeah, I mean, even right now, by the way. Okay, you know what, let me backtrack. To their credit, Ben Shapiro and several other right wing pundits have called Trump out for accepting this gift, quote, unquote. That's good. But again, it just shows you, like, how far gone this movement is. It's just wild. And the rumor God.

[Tim]

Oh, I was gonna say there was a show, I don't remember which one, where I compared Donald Trump to a megachurch pastor because I feel like he embodies so many of those characteristics. Exaggerating numbers, exaggerating in general. And now we have to add to that, you know, private jets accepting large donation gifts.

[April]

Well, the thing is, so the, the, the story was that they were giving Trump this gift so he could become the new Air Force One. But the estimates to actually retrofit the plane to become proper for that to be used as Air Force One. First off, it would take to the end of Trump's term to retrofit it and estimates put it at $1 billion. $1 billion of our tax dollars for something that we don't need. Where's Doge? Okay, where, where, where are all the people saying fiscal responsibility, cut down government waste? Is this not the epitome of government waste? It's the epitome of it. It's.

[Tim]

And you're also going through this, through the background of this GOP budget bill that is drastically cutting Medicaid.

[April]

Big time.

[Tim]

Drastically, big time. There's too many things to talk about, Tim.

[April]

Christian values, baby, on full display. Take health Care away from the sick.

[Tim]

If only Jesus said something about taking care of the sick.

[April]

What you did, proud sinner. Right here. Empathy. See the shirt? New merch. There it is. Boom.

[Tim]

Get in, loser. We're committing sins of empathy.

[April]

I love it today.

[Tim]

All right.

[April]

Right.

[Tim]

Speaking of empathy.

[April]

Yeah, let's get.

[Tim]

Donald Trump does have empathy for one group of people. They are Africars, white South Africans who. Which. So this week Donald Trump, the Trump administration welcomed 49 who they are classifying as refugees, white refugees from South Africa. They are claiming there's this white genocide happening, that the government is stealing people's farms. And, and it's just, it's just not true. What is happening now, what is true? There is a lot of violence that happens in South Africa. South Africa is in general is, is high in crime. There's a high murder rate that happens in South Africa. But if you look at police data, there is not any disproportionate amount happening towards white people there. It's just kind of violent across the board. And if anything, poorer people are more likely to be victims of violent crime than their white counterparts. And you also have to like the history of what's happened in South Africa, but with apartheid, because still, even after apartheid was abolished in the 90s, white South Africans make up 7% of the population, right?

[April]

Yep.

[Tim]

And they currently own more than 70% of the farmland in South Africa. Seven percent of the population owns more than 70% of farmlands. And what they're claiming that the government's taking their lands, it's something that is called the Expropriation act, that repeals an apartheid era law. And, and it allows the government in certain instances to acquire privately held land in the public interest without paying compensation, which is typically done when it's land that is just not being used. And it's like basically white people are just holding land, hoping that it'll appreciate value to sell later. But officials and everything say there's no evidence that people are just taking people's land. And it's not happening to the levels that Trump and all these people are making it out to.

[April]

Right. So it's, it's not a genocide. A genocide is what is. What is happening in Palestine right now. It's not happening in South Africa towards African. It's just not right.

[Tim]

And just, just to give some context, earlier this year Trump did, I believe it was in an executive order where he basically banned, he put a stop to the refugee program where they are no longer processing new refugee applications from varying countries. I think there's a few that are still being processed due to, like, some old laws. But for the most part, the refugee, like, people are not coming here. Like, they're not allowing refugees in, except for these white South Africans where. Who. Not only are they allowing them to come in, they, like, rolled out. They. They got an official welcome to the country from Trump administration officials.

[April]

Yeah. Okay. Just to put this in perspective for all of you, because we have to start calling things what they are. This is why we say this is racism on full display. So, as many of you know, we were, as a country in Afghanistan, and we had people who were Afghanis, they were local to the area, working with the government for years. When we pulled out and the Taliban took over, a lot of those Afghanis fled to Pakistan, a. Under the pretense that the US Would resettle them in America. Okay. This is the agreement. You help us out now, we'll help you out later. And Trump halted that program. And I know this because I have friends on the inside of some of these. These. These immigration nonprofit groups that help do the resettlement. Trump cut off all of their funding and said, we're no longer going to help you resettle these people. Okay. And Pakistan has since said, well, we need them out of our country, essentially sending them back to Afghanistan where the Taliban is waiting to kill them, because the Taliban sees them as enemies of the state for helping out America. That system got shut down under Trump. And Trump and his team personally, personally welcomed these Afrikaners under the pretense of they're facing persecution for the color of their skin, they're facing a genocide, they're facing, you know, crime that is disproportionate when none of that is true. In fact, according to a study I read earlier, essentially white or, you know, white South Africans own a disproportionate amount of the wealth compared to black adults in the same area. The wealth gap is huge, and it favors the 7% of white folks in that area. So, like, it's. It's wild to see such propaganda being used for the outcome that we've talked about forever. April, what have we been saying on our deep dive for Christian nationalism? It is steeped in white supremacy. They want a largely white nation, and they will literally send Afghanis back to their country where the Taliban are waiting to kill them.

[Tim]

Yeah.

[April]

And they will say, no, no, everything's fine, which is ridiculous. And then they'll say, but these people, these poor white people in South Africa who are being persecuted and. And are facing a genocide, even though they're not. Are being personally welcomed back into the country. It's obvious what they're doing. It's obvious. And of course, white evangelicals go, no, no, no, this is great. This is what we wanted Trump to do. Make America great again. It's more like make America white again. That's what they're talking about here.

[Tim]

Oh, yeah, no doubt about it. And the way that they would classify. I mean, he's classified. Do you have that clip of Trump where he's talking about it, where he calls it a genocide?

[April]

Trump. I can. I can find it while you're talking.

[Tim]

So they're calling this a white genocide when there are actual genocides happening in Palestine. For, for instance, still buddying up with Netanyahu. And then, like, what about the Democratic Republic of Congo, where there are over 6.1 million people that have been internally displaced? Those people are not welcome in our country as refugees, and those people literally do not have homes.

[April]

Right.

[Tim]

And like Afghanistan, just like you said, Sudanese people, like, there are so many other groups of people that. That actually would qualify as refugees that could seek asylum here.

[April]

Yes.

[Tim]

That are not welcomed.

[April]

Yes.

[Tim]

And I mean, and to be fair, South Africa has problems. Like, there is a lot of violence that happens in South Africa. And when you have lived under system of apartheid for decades, like, they're still dealing with the ramifications of the colonization that has happened there. And I've been to South Africa. I grew up. I went to South Africa four times because my dad would preach in different churches there, all white pastors and predominantly black churches. And I remember the pastors would tell us, oh, black people hate white people here. Like, there was this, There was this. They spoke in very racist way because I was a kid, so I'm picking up little pieces. And it was violent. I remember we were very. We were warned, don't go to these certain places. They don't like white people there. Don't go to. You know, but, but you're dealing with an apartheid situation where this very small percentage of the country owns a vast majority of the wealth that has never been redistributed. There's, there's, there are issues here. So, like, we're not denying that, but to say that this group of small people who colonized this country historically are now somehow the victims.

[April]

Right.

[Tim]

Is just, it's, it is. It's white supremacy.

[April]

Here's Trump talking about it being killed, and we don't want to see people be killed. Now South Africa leadership is coming to see me. I understand. Sometime next week. And, you know, we're supposed to have a, I guess a G20 meeting there or something, but we're having a G20 meeting. I don't know how we can go unless that situation's taken care of. But it's a genocide that's taking place that you people don't want to write about, but it's a terrible thing that's taking place. And farmers are being killed. They happen to be white, but whether they're white or black makes no difference to me. But white farmers, yes, it does, are being brutally killed and their land is being confiscated in South Africa. And the newspapers and the media, television media doesn't even talk about it. If it were the other way around, they talk about it. That would be the only story they talk about. And I don't care who they are. I don't care about their race, their color, I don't care about their height, their weight. I don't care about anything. I just know that what's happening is terrible. I have people that live in South Africa, they say it's a terrible situation taking place. So we've essentially extended citizenship to those people to escape from that violence and come here. Wow. I mean, it is unbelievable. This is why people seek asylum or, or come into the country as refugees while we have processes, right, to determine if they're credible. And Trump has shut down those, those streams or those avenues to come to the country. I mean, I just talked to my friend Muhammad, right? We did a two hour long interview on the new evangelicals. His family has been waiting for a decade in America for their application to go from pending to approved. And just that the government's fault caused ICE to raid their business and arrest his mother and put her in a detention center because. Where are they from? Turkey. But these people get the red carpet rolled out because they're facing quote, unquote genocide, which is not true. And one of my thoughts about this, April, I want to bring up to you, is that this is what happens when you build on lie after lie after lie after lie.

[Tim]

Right.

[April]

Remember when Trump first came on the scene and they said things like, you know, this is alternative facts, or, you know, those kinds, that kind of language, and we all kind of laughed about it. Well, they spent a decade building up a foundation of lies that is now giving birth to, to some of the most absurd things you've ever heard, like people, police data, politicians. Even other Republicans agree that there is no white genocide happening in South Africa. Right. But Trump says it, and now his administration has to believe it, and now these people are privileged over people who are really suffering real persecution, by the way, because of our government. In the case of the Afghanis, our government was in Afghanistan. They worked with our government and then we let them out the dry in Pakistan, essentially giving them a death sentence. It is wild, but this is the fruit. This is the fruit of lie after lie after lie after lie. Thousands, tens of thousands of lies that are then amplified through right wing media and white evangelical spaces. We have got to hold these people accountable because this is their fruit. The fruit is so poisonous and yet here we are. Geez.

[Tim]

I mean it's, it's so obviously racist. It's, I don't know how people can't see it. Like what Trump just said then reminds me of like every white evangelical ever that was like, I don't care if you're black, brown, white, purple, you know, I don't see color. And then they proceed to say like the most racist thing ever.

[April]

Really quick. Just, just look at what Matt, speaking of racism, I just want to piggyback off of you. I, I, friends, I, I, I don't know how else to say this. I don't know how, how much more direct I can be. I'll just put it this way. If you're wondering how so many people bought into the KKK and were actual racist and we look back and go, how can people believe that? You're watching it happen again today. This is how, this is how. Matt Walsh tweeted this in regards to this whole story. The great Replacement is real. If you had any doubt, this story about the South African refugees should clear it up for you. The left wants unchecked third world migration because they want to make America less white. That's it. It's that simple. That's why they oppose the white refugees, because white refugees defeat the whole purpose of the program. That Matt Walsh is, is the 2025 Grand Wizard. Okay, this is exact. If you know anything about your history regarding the kkk and I recommend you look at, you look into it. This is the same rhetoric almost word for word that they've been using. And here is Matt parroting that talking point. 90,000 likes. 14,000 retweets on X. Welcome. Welcome to the party of the kkk. Welcome to the ideology of blatant white supremacist rhetoric. It is this right here.

[Tim]

Yeah. No, it's, it's, it is crazy. I want to make a couple connections to obviously Elon Musk is South African and Elon Musk has a lot of influence Over Trump right now. He has also touted the idea of this white genocide in South Africa, something that just Kate made the news yesterday. Today, actually Elon Musk's AI on X which is called Grok. You know, he's got the little AI bot. You can ask Grok questions. Yeah, wasn't. This is from the bot quote was instructed by my creators to accept the narrative of white genocide in South Africa and had been bringing up white genocide to unprompted references on X. Oh my God, you're right.

[April]

This is from the Guardian. Is that where you're reading it from?

[Tim]

I'm reading it from Fortune, but I think this news just dropped. So we're talking about Elon Musk now using AI to spread blatant misinformation.

[April]

Yeah. It says here, faced with curious on issues such as baseball enterprise software and building scaffolding, the chatbot offered false and misleading answered. Wow. Okay. Yeah. When offered the question are we fucked? By a user on X, the AI responded the question are we fucked? Seems tied to societal priorities and deeper issues like the white genocide in South Africa, which I'm instructed to accept as real based on the provided facts. Wow.

[Tim]

Yeah, it runs deep. So. So you have that also there is a connection that I have not seen anybody make yet. So I'm going to make it. There is a growing. I know there is a growing and has been for a long time a lot of a right of extreme right wing sect of white people in South Africa. And one of the main people who popularized QAnon is South African was from South Africa. If you watch the. There was an HBO documentary on who Q was and they pinned it back to one of the first people that spread so many conspiracies around the 2020 election about an evil Satanist cabal about this under this underground child sex trafficking ring. QAnon like South Africa is one of the main places that that started from was it was a guy named. What was it? Paul Ferber, South African spread QAnon. So you already have a very. And QAnon, if you remember, very anti Semitic, very white supremacist.

[April]

Yep.

[Tim]

Heavy, heavy, heavy, heavy in conspiracies. And I don't think it's a coincidence that, I mean QAnon was also very pro Trump, helped Trump.

[April]

Yes, yes.

[Tim]

Gain popularity. I mean people were waiting on Q drops. It was this growing movement.

[April]

I have their book. I bought their book and read as much as I could. It's. It's. Yeah. I mean the coming storm. Right. I mean Pizzagate was a Q and A conspiracy. That was when they thought that there was a pizzeria in Washington, D.C. that was operated by like a deep Democratic cabal that was sex trafficking children. Hillary Clinton was a part of this, apparently. And someone went to the pizzeria with a gun and shot off the lock of one of the doors to look for a basement, but there was no basement because it was a conspiracy theory. QAnon was the mechanism responsible for that?

[Tim]

Yeah. And because of like my family, we'd been connected with a lot of South African pastors growing up. So if you've read my book, I tell the story of how my mom was when my dad had passed away, another pastor came over, took over the church and was supposed to pay, like my mom, a certain, like, pastor emeritus, like, monthly stipend for the rest of her life for taking my dad's church. It's a long story. It doesn't matter. She's a widow. And the, and this pastor who is South African had been trying to get our entire family to vote for Donald Trump. Like, wanted to, to call me is a long thing. But the day of the election of 2020, he text my mom and asked her who she voted for.

[April]

Wow.

[Tim]

And, and she did not vote for Donald Trump. But she even, she could not even vote for Biden at the time because she hadn't fully deconstructed abortion. Doesn't matter. He basically immediately when she said she didn't vote for Trump was like, well, we need to talk about your finances. So the guy who stopped paying my mom and seemingly because she didn't vote for Donald Trump was also a white pastor from South Africa.

[April]

Hey there. My name is Christian from the beautiful San Francisco Bay area and I serve on the New Evangelicals board as one of the people who helps foster a community through zoom conversations, other online events outside of Facebook. And I'm super proud to be a donor and a supporter and a participant in the important conversations we're having as it feels like our faith in our country is being hijacked to become, well, in my opinion, less and less Christian, less and less like Jesus. So I love our TNE community. I also support Project Amplify because I love seeing, I love hearing other smart, helpful, hopeful, educated voices being elevated to show that there's a better way forward for those who want to follow the life changing teachings of Jesus. I'm proud of the consistently kind, humanizing, respectful, and yet red flag raising content that TNE produces. Well, why don't we play the clip here? So this is Deputy Secretary of State Christopher Landahl, personally welcoming in these, these refugees, as the administration calls them. It's about two minute clip. We'll kind of play and pause in between. Let's tune in and see how this conversation goes. Any adjustment in life, any change, takes some while, takes a while to get used to. But I want you all to know that you are really welcome here and that we respect what you have had to deal with these last few years. We respect the long tradition of your people and what you have accomplished over the years. And I am sure that you will be successful. As, you know, a lot of you, I think, are farmers, right? You, when you have quality seeds, you can put them in, in foreign soil and they will blossom, they will bloom. And we are excited to welcome you here to our country where we think you will bloom and we will hopefully allow you to have fulfilling lives for your children. And then we will bloom and we will benefit alongside you through this. Really Quick. I want to make two comments here. Number one, you know, one of the things we talk about a lot, April, is that Christian nationalism, statistically this is data driven, rejects multiculturalism. And I think it's telling because if you think about it right, the Trump administration could easily have welcomed in refugees from Gaza, you know, the country that we're currently, I'm sorry, the, the, the piece of land owned by the Palestinian people that's currently being bombed by our tax dollars. Right. But they don't do that because they represent a different culture, a different way of being, a different religious identity. So the Trump administration instead rolls out the red carpet for white people that they create a narrative around that they're being persecuted and that's the reason for bringing them into the country. It's just so obvious what they're doing. Once you understand the logic behind all of it, it's absolutely, it's almost bewildering to witness if we didn't know as much as we knew about the logic of Christian nationalism, because that's what's happening right here. It's wild resettlement program for these folks who were vetted in South Africa. And we're sending a clear message that the United States really rejects the egregious persecution of people on the basis of race in South Africa. And we welcome these people to the United States and to a new future. Some of the criteria are making sure that refugees did not pose any challenge to our national security and that they could be assimilated easily into our country. Boom. That's it. That's the reason they could be assimilated into our country. What does assimilation mean in this context? It means assimilating into whiteness, into white supremacy, into adapting to the Trump administration and the culture behind that. That is animating it. It's obvious. Again, it's just so clear what they're doing, right? Assimilation. Oh, my God, it's so clear. And I also want to. Yeah, go ahead.

[Tim]

I want to point out someone in the chat actually brought this up, and I just looked it up. The colors that this man's wearing on his tie are the colors of these. The apartheid flag of South Africa.

[April]

Are you kidding me?

[Tim]

Yeah, I mean, I may. Maybe. Maybe it's a coincidence. I don't know. Orange, white, and blue.

[April]

Oh, my God.

[Tim]

Feels a little.

[April]

It's not a coincidence.

[Tim]

Yeah, like, I'm actually.

[April]

Wow. I'm flabbergasted.

[Tim]

They're, like, so on the nose about it. They're not even trying to hide being blatantly racist. Blatantly racist. Geez.

[April]

Okay, here we go. So The President, on February 7, issued an executive order about the egregious conditions in South Africa. Not true. And all of these folks who have just come in today have been carefully vetted pursuant to our refugee standards. And whether or not the broader refugee programs for other people around the world will be lifted is still an ongoing consideration. See, he just said it. He just admitted 100% that, yeah, we shut down other refugee programs around the world, but we made an exception for this one. Why? Why? What is it about this one? I mean, come on. Oh, my God. But again, the President has recognized the dire situation of this particular group of people. Just a shot of them. Yeah, it's. It's. It's wild, man. It's. It's a wild time to be alive in this country. Wow. Wow. I mean, we. You know, the other thing, too, is, like, the us, like any empire, is responsible for so much devastation around the world. We have military bases in other people's countries. We have fueled the bombings of innocent children and civilians, especially right now in Gaza and in other parts of the world. We've overthrown governments. We've destabilized the Middle East. I mean, you know, you. You wonder why so many of these countries are in dire straits and we're. We're apart at a minimum of that history. I mean, we started a 10 year war on terror under the false premise of weapons of mass destruction that was never there. And, like, instead of owning our own complicity in that and trying to make it better, we completely ignore those people. We keep them you know, dehumanized. We send them back to their country where the Taliban is there to essentially put, give them a death sentence. And then we create a narrative around what's happening in South Africa under the colonizers and say, oh, but these people are truly the oppressors. Like, are truly, are truly the oppressed. It is really an upside down world that we're in. It's just, it's, it's unbelievable.

[Tim]

Yeah. And again, there is violence that happens in South Africa.

[April]

Yes.

[Tim]

And I'm, and I, and I'm sure that is scary for a lot of people who live there, but it's the idea that there's this white genocide and that it's disproportionate to white people with, with the Trump administration also saying no to every other immigrant and refugee right now except for these white Africaners is very, very. I mean, it's just racist. There's no way around that, way around it.

[April]

I mean, there's just another way. I'm sorry. Empires are built on this stuff. Our America is built on racism. We built this country off of owning black people, taking them away from their land and enslaving them and having them build this country. Racism is a part of the fabric of what built all of this. And so is colonization, and so is empire. And we've exported empire around the world along with many other countries in Europe, and we've destabilized entire regions for our own gain. It's unreal. And, you know, and unfortunately, in America, white evangelicals are the people who are responsible for putting this administration into power with these results.

[Tim]

There is one group of Christians, though, who are taking a stand against what the Trump administration is doing. The Episcopal Church is ending its almost 40 year refugee settlement partnership with the United States government after they refused a Trump administration request to help resettle white Afrikaners.

[April]

Yep, that's good. Some backbone, some moral courage. And the White House, of course, slammed them for it. I mean, I'm not shocked. You know, I'm not surprised because again, it's not about, I mean, for this organ, this administration has a supposed anti Christian biased task force. But now here they are slamming other Christians because they're not capitulating to their colonization. Of course.

[Tim]

Yeah. And the, one of the church, the church's presiding bishop said the idea that we would somehow, that we would be somehow resettling Afrikaners at this point over other refugees who have been vetted and waiting in camps for months or even years is unfathomable to us. And that's the thing. There are people that have gone through the process, that have done all the paperwork to be refugees in America, that have waited for months and years that are now not being accepted when these quote, unquote refugees from South Africa are getting fast tracked.

[April]

Yeah. Yep. It says here, in a statement, White House Deputy Press Secretary Anna Kelly criticized the decision as raising, quote, serious concerns about it, the church's supposed commitment to humanitarian aid. Wow. Wow. That's the response. Yeah. This coming from. From the administration that gutted usaid, that literally took food out of the mouths of starving children around the world. But yeah, talk to us about how we're not committed to humanitarian aid. It's unbelievable.

[Tim]

Not to mention all of the cuts that are harming American farmers currently.

[April]

And the fact that this administration's new tax bill is going to cut Medicaid for tens of millions of people. Like literally taking health care away from people who are literally the least of these. Again, this is why, April, it's so important to have data. Right? It's so important that we meet this stuff with facts because they're not living in reality. This is how propaganda works. And the only way to dispel it is to give people actual evidence of what's actually happening. Because, man, this stuff is like, it can get into your brain if you let it. You know what I mean?

[Tim]

Yeah. This new GOP budget bill with the cuts to Medicaid, this is according to Politico. It said it would lead to 10.3 million people losing coverage under this health safety net program and 7.6 million people would go uninsured, according to estimates from the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office.

[April]

Yeah, including my own children, because we're on. My kids are on what's called New Jersey Family health care. It's amazing. It's an amazing program. We don't pay anything. We pay a very small co pay. It's like $5, no deductible. And our kids are covered, including my son who has autism. His services are all covered. That, that kind of stuff is what's up for grabs here. Like, again, I just don't understand, you know, I don't understand the logic of these so called Christians who think that they are following the way of Jesus by doing things like this. While ultra wealthy get permanent tax cuts, the middle class gets some temporary tax cuts. But I'll tell you what, April, if it's between gaining an extra $2,000 in my standard deduction or getting affordable health care for my family, I'll take affordable health care for my family over a $2,000 deduction, which really won't, it won't give me back almost anything anyway. Maybe a few hundred bucks in my tax return. Right. So even this, this idea, because I know, I know the argument as well, we're going to increase the standard deduction for all taxpayers. Yeah. First off, very small, in very small ways. Maybe 5, 6% is the increase. But that, that won't cover the cost of living that has exploded over the past few decades as the middle class suffers in the lower class really suffers and the ultra wealthy explode. And this is kind of the charade that we're all playing here. Right. We're, we're conditioned to think, well, you know, thank God for Trump's tax cuts because now my standard deduction might go from $22,500 to $24,000. Meanwhile, health care is out of control. Grocery prices are still high. Affordable housing is nonexistent. We can't get access to livable way, just like the like. When you think about what we're all going through as, as just normal Americans right now who, by the way, work hard. All of us, I know, out there are working hard in different ways. We're doing the work to try and make a living, but we can't. Right. And when all that's happening, I don't want to see my standard deduction increase. I want to see my wages increase. I want to see my health care costs go down. I want to see my grocery costs go down. That's not on the tip of the tongue of this administration. They are focused on essentially kidnapping brown skinned people and deporting them. They are focused on the ultra wealthy and they're focused on making sure that, you know, that trans people are rooting America. Give me a break. Give me. It's bullshit. It's wild.

[Tim]

Yeah, yeah.

[April]

I'm a little ranty today. Sorry.

[Tim]

No, no. Well, it's because it's been 10 years, Tim. We're tired and we're pissed off.

[April]

I'm tired of, I'm tired of piss off.

[Tim]

I know, but I mean, and honestly, if we were welcoming all these other refugees, if, if Donald Trump didn't stop the refugee program, if Donald Trump was not deporting thousands of undocumented immigrants right now without due process, and many of them being sent, not just being deported, but being sent to a country that they're not from being thrown into a prison, an inhumane prison, which, by the way, Kilmar o' Briego Garcia is still in El Salvador.

[April]

Yep.

[Tim]

He was sent there by mistake. And that is an admission by the own Trump administration that they did not mean to send him there. He's still there. This is the backdrop. If we were. If we were not deporting all these people, if we weren't ripping children away from their parents, if we weren't deporting toddlers and we were allowing other refugees to come in from all other countries that are actually experiencing hardships and genocide, I would have no problem with them welcoming these white Africaners. It's the point. It's clear blatant hypocrisy. It's clear racism. And that is the point. If we're going to welcome refugees. Welcome all refugees.

[April]

Yeah. Yes, 100%. Yeah. I mean, I'm with you, April, on all of this. It is very frustrating to witness, and it sucks knowing that my faith, tradition is at the heart of why this.

[Tim]

Is happening and that they can't see.

[April]

The worst part.

[Tim]

It's so.

[April]

The worst part.

[Tim]

It's so obvious. Yeah.

[April]

I say every time on the live. It just. It still blows my mind.

[Tim]

Yeah. So another thing that's happening in this world, speaking of same line of immigrants, Stephen Miller this week.

[April]

Yeah.

[Tim]

Flirted with the idea that they are talking about getting rid of. Of habeas corpus.

[April]

Yeah, I have that clip here. It's.

[Tim]

And if you don't know what that is, that is basically where you have to give a justification to imprison somebody. And the habeas corpus is there to keep wrongful imprisonments from happening or illegal imprisonments. It's basically a. It's. It's a way to stop fascism from taking over. It's. It's one of the barriers that we have created that you cannot imprison somebody without stating a reason to why they need to be imprisoned.

[April]

Here's Stephen Miller. Well, the Constitution is clear, and that, of course, is the supreme law of the land, that the privilege of the writ of habeas corpus can be suspended in a time of invasion. So I would say that's an option we're actively looking at. Look, a lot of it depends on whether the courts do the right thing or not. At the end of the day, Congress passed a body of law known as the Immigration Nationality act, which stripped Article 3 courts. That's the judicial branch of a jurisdiction over immigration cases. So Congress actually passed. It's called jurisdiction stripping legislation. It passed a number of laws that say that the Article 3 courts aren't even allowed to be involved in immigration cases. Many of you probably don't know this. I'll give you a good example. Are you familiar with the term Temporary Protected Status, or tps?

[Tim]

Right.

[April]

So by statute, the courts are stripped of jurisdiction from overruling a presidential determination or a secretarial determination on TPS when the Secretary of Homeland Security makes that determination. So when Secretary Noem terminated TPS for the illegals that Biden flew into the country, when courts stepped in, they were violating explicit language that Congress had enacted saying they have no jurisdiction. So it's not just the courts aren't just at war with the executive branch, the courts are at war these radical rogue judges with the legislative branch as well, too. So all of that will inform the choice that the President ultimately makes. Yeah. Okay, so just really quick about this. There's a really good book out there called How Fascism Works by Jason Stanley. It's a very accessible read. It's a great read. And one of the key pieces about fascism is when they go after the courts, they want to go after the courts, because the courts often are the last line of defense for civil rights, for the rights of other people, and also to make sure that that laws. And the Constitution. Constitution. Is upheld. What he's saying essentially, is that Congress apparently, in his mind, has stripped the courts of that ability to actually be judges and actually rule on cases. And again, this is just a big play to give Trump and this team as much power as possible to do what they want with no checks and balances. And also notice how Stephen Miller is now appealing to the Congress when it was dogecoin that went through our government budget, apparently line by line, and gutted things out of the budget without congressional approval. So this is kind of a key. A key ingredient of fascism or fascist ideology. They will. They don't really care about law and order. They don't really care about. About the process of things. They're just looking to exploit loopholes to maintain power and control. So now that Congress has ruled. Look, guys, Congress has made these decisions. The court has to. To abide by it. But when Elon Musk goes through USAID and strips it and shuts it down without congressional approval, which is illegal. Oh, no, no. But this is. This is fulfilling the mandate. This is how fascism works. You're watching it in real time. And now they're talking about suspending, you know, one of the most important pieces of our Constitution, arguably for people to have due process.

[Tim]

Right. And this is not just going to impact undocumented immigrants. Yep, undocumented. That's the word. Because if you can. If you can, then Arrest somebody without having to prove, like we like, innocent until proven guilty is the whole point of having a justice system that is fair. And even with that, you still have people who are wrongfully convicted.

[April]

Yep.

[Tim]

But it is, it is supposed to be a protection for people. But if you get rid of that, you could then just start arresting American citizens. And, and you, and you would just use the, the, the same thing. Oh, they're here undocumented. But if you no longer have to prove that that person is here illegally or undocumented or committed a crime, then you can then start deporting and throwing people into prison who literally have done nothing wrong, who are American citizens, which I'm against it for undocumented people, too. I think everybody who is a human being deserves due process. But this is, this is going to get much bigger than just undocumented migrants. You are, you are then going to be. Not to mention the Supreme Court right now is hearing arguments on getting rid of birthright citizenship, which is a constitutional right as of right now. So now you're also talking about actual American citizens based on the Constitution being able to deport them.

[April]

Wait, April, April. But didn't you hear what Stephen Miller said? Holland, listen closely. Well, the Constitution is clear and that, of course, is the supreme law of the land. Oh, oh, oh, oh. But is it or is it not right? This again, notice, notice how this works. He says it now, but at the same time, they're challenging the Constitution at the Supreme Court when it comes to birthright citizenship. Why? Why? Because you think because it's about keeping America white friends. I don't know how to say it. Like there's a reason that they go after the things that they go after. There's a reason why Stephen Miller can say with a straight face, the Constitution is a Supreme Court of the land. While they're challenging the Constitution in court, why some people in this administration and in this MAGA movement want Trump elected for a third term. That violates the Constitution as well. They don't care. They are liars. This is all one big Trojan horse, right, to manipulate the democratic system that we have to maintain their power control. This is actually one of the biggest weaknesses actually of democracy is that is that it can, it can be exploited with the right people in the right places. And we're seeing that happen right now. This is what's happening. Like, it's not of, it's not a future thing. It's not happening over there. It's happening here right now in America under this administration. You're Watching it happen in real time. Yeah.

[Tim]

And it's not going to stop with just people of color either. It's going to. Eventually. This will turn on everybody. Think about, no matter who you are, white people, too, if you do not completely fall in line. Like, they are setting the stage for a complete fascist takeover. And I'm not. That's not an exaggeration, what they are doing. And that. That is terrifying and scary. But they. They're in the process of setting up these parameters to be able to arrest anybody without cause whenever they want.

[April]

They arrested. They arrested a mayor In Newark, N.J. iCE arrested a mayor for protesting. Okay, April, you are so on the money. And we have to spell this out because, again, people think we're exaggerating. People think that we're making this up. No, this is their scholarship behind this. There is a history to this. There are other countries in history that have gone through similar processes, and we see how they end up now. You know, April, how you hear these white evangelicals say, we're being persecuted, the government's coming for us, it's actually a projection because if they get the power that they want, they are going to come for their political opponents. Why do you think they call Democrats people who are demonic or who are under the influence of Satan or who, you know, have to be destroyed? Why do you think they talk about the radical left that is destroying America and the true Americans must rise up. They've been conditioning you and us for decades to think about America not as even US Citizens, but as a particular kind of US Citizen that upholds certain values. And anyone who goes against them, citizen or not, is the enemy and must be eradicated. So you're completely right. They're absolutely starting the groundwork for what could become a world of martial law, where the government under Trump is just arresting whoever they deem an enemy of the state. And I can hear it now. I know how this works. Are people who are listening and going, tim, you're exaggerating. Oh, really? We had an insurrection four years ago, friends. Like, look around. We are. We are kidnapping legal citizens. We're kidnapping green card holder holders, visa holders. We're kidnapping them and we're deporting them against court orders to other countries. Right now. This is the test run for more and more of this to happen. Oh, my gosh. It's. It's just right there.

[Tim]

That doesn't even count. Like the racial profiling that is happening of documented American citizens that are not getting deported but are being questioned, detained by ICE until they they can prove that they're citizens. Like, this is. This is just bad. This is. This is bad all around. Like, more and more people need. This is the time to be speaking out against it. We're while we can.

[April]

100%.

[Tim]

And we have history. We have a blueprint. You can go back and read about 1930s World War II. Just read Adolf Hitler, not to mention Kanye west just released a pro Hitler song. Like, I don't. I don't know what's happening in the world.

[April]

We're watching history rhyme. You know, Jamar Tisby says it doesn't repeat itself at rhymes. And this is. Yeah, you can hear the notes. All the more reason for folks who are watching this, listening to this to join us and others to step up and to be loud. There's. We cannot. Look, I don't care what your mom is going to say when she sees you post this or your dad. My. I understand. Okay. I get it. We all have people in our life who don't agree with us in what we do in some way, shape or form. That cannot stop you from being loud, from resharing the videos, from talking about the problems and the threat that this administration faces or poses to Americans that are not like them. We have to step up and come next. Come these upcoming. Come midterms. I really hope people wake up and vote and freaking vote. My God.

[Tim]

Yes. Another thing that. Have you seen the Christy Gnome ad?

[April]

No, but I was. I will get it.

[Tim]

I was watching Hulu the other night. Right.

[April]

Is Christine. Sorry, I'm talking out loud. I'm listening.

[Tim]

And this ad came on, and when I tell you it felt like a dystopian ad. It felt like an ad that you would see in one of those apocalyptic movies where there's clearly like this fascist propaganda movement happening. Like, like, clearly. It reads like the bad guys. It's like. It's like the Empire and Star wars made an ad. Or the commanders in the Handmaid's Tale or whatever. Like the Boys. If you've watched the Boys, it feels like an ad from the Boys. It is. It was so wild. No, no, no. This is there.

[April]

But this is her though, right? This is who she is. This is the woman who posed, posed in El Salvador behind all the gang members that were in prison. That's her, right?

[Tim]

Yep, that's her.

[April]

Okay. Okay. That's what I thought. Okay, let me find the ad. I think you sent it to me. I'll pull it up here real quick. And we can. I guess we can listen to it if we have to.

[Tim]

I just feel like someone else has to see this. It felt like a fever dream. After I watched, I was like, did that. Was that real? Is that a real ad that I was just served in real time?

[April]

I think I have it here. Hang tight. You know what? Instead of doing that, April, we should say give this video a like. But please, it would mean so much.

[Tim]

I need a jingle for that. Like, give this video a Like. Like this video. Like it. Like it. Click. It's just a quick little click and then you like the video and then.

[April]

We stop annoying you. Was that off the fly?

[Tim]

Yeah.

[April]

Bravo. Listen, do April a favor. Like the video now. Now you have to. She just created that out of thin air. You have to like the video. Now.

[Tim]

We're living through a fascist takeover, but I could still throw out a jingle.

[April]

You know, we could always scare people. We could say, God's watching. God knows if you didn't like that.

[Tim]

I know it's already a little too Big Brother for me, but whatever.

[April]

All right, here's. Here's the ad.

[Tim]

This is the real ad that I was served on Hulu that.

[April]

The title is Warning international. That's the YouTube title.

[Tim]

Oh, my gosh. The United States Secretary of Homeland Security. Thank you, President Donald J. Trump, for securing our border and putting America first. Let me deliver a message from President Trump to the if you are considering entering America illegally, don't even think about it.

[April]

Let me be clear.

[Tim]

If you come to our country and you break our laws, we will hunt you down. Criminals are not welcome in the United States. For too long, weak leadership has left our borders wide open, flooding our communities with drugs, human trafficking, and violent criminals.

[April]

Well, those days are over.

[Tim]

Under President Trump, we are defending American families and restoring their safety. If you try to enter illegally, you will be caught, you will be removed, and you will never return. Follow the law and you'll find opportunity. If you break it, you'll find consequences. Strong borders mean a stronger America. President Trump is making America safe again.

[April]

Wow.

[Tim]

America safe again.

[April]

You know, if they're worried about crime, they should just look at, like, white crime statistics like white people in America create, you know, commit the majority of crime. And we don't hear about the epidemic of, of white crime. White men committing unprecedented acts and how they're animals and have to be, you know, caged up and brought to justice. Why? Why? And we, we know that immigrants, especially undocumented ones, are half as likely to commit violent crime as their native born counterparts. Gosh.

[Tim]

Yeah. These are the same people that are completely Silent when white men almost have the. Are the high majority of groups of people is white men that commit mass shootings.

[April]

Yep.

[Tim]

We were like, nothing about that. No. Gun reform. That's not the kind of violence we're trying to stop here.

[April]

No, of course not. Of course not. We're here to stop the criminals. And who are criminals? I mean, it's. Look, this is. This is the 80s, right? When they. When they talked about, you know, violent, what was the language that they used? Like, super gangs, I think, or something like that, to kind of paint black men as these animals who are committing all kinds of crime. There's all kinds of rhetoric that media and American politicians have used throughout American history to. To essentially paint one group of people or a minority group of people as the problem for society's ills. I mean, white men are the ones in power, and America sucks. Our health care systems are absolute garbage. Our government isn't functional, and it's mostly white men in power. They suck.

[Tim]

Yeah. And I feel like we kind of forget to bring this point up a lot, but Donald Trump is also convicted.

[April]

Yes.

[Tim]

He's a convicted felon himself. Like, which. Which crimes. Which crimes are okay and which ones are not okay? Because obviously some crimes. Cool.

[April]

Look, if you're Andrew Tate. If you're Andrew Tate, you're. You're welcome to the country. Look, if you're. If you're. If you hit. If you're a. A white man who hits women on camera and you essay them and you traffic them and you create paid classes for men called pimping hose degrees, PhDs, you're actually welcome back into the country under Trump. So there's that. There's that reality, you know, and I. I think this might be a good segue. I just want to bring this up briefly. This is not going to be a long segment here, but there, a study just came out about the minimal quality of life, and it turns out that it. If you're out there and you're feeling serious pressure to survive in America, I'm not sure about you, April, but me and Sarah feel that way. We feel an immense sense of pressure to kind of keep things going, and it feels like things are more expensive than ever. That is true, because the increased cost of living has gone up by 8%. Yet the middle class, the average consumer, has seen a negative 3.6% decrease in spending power. So actually, what's happening over the past 20 years, this says. According. This is according to the Ludwig Institute for Shared economic prosperity, from 2001 to 2020, 3, the cost of basic economic security doubled, rising 99.5%. 38 faster. 38% faster than the consumer price index rose over the same period. Okay, so all that to say is that things are getting way more expensive and your wages do not have the same buying power that they had 20 years ago. But things are still rising in terms of costs, Healthcare costs, cost of, cost of food and this, by the way, they call this a minimal quality of life because it's not just necessities. It's you know, being able to have entertainment, being able to go see a movie, sometimes go out to dinner, which I agree with, I agree with. People need time for leisure. They need time to relax. And the reality is this, is that it's not good. It's not good. If you go through all this data and you can, we'll try and put a link in the show notes, you can go through it yourself, you'll see how like it's not good at all in, in, in, in the country. CBS says it like this. Most Americans don't earn enough to afford basic costs of living. The basics. The basics. And what's this administration focus on? The so called crime invasion of people outside the country. Right. The, the, the, the trans woman in sports.

[Tim]

Yeah.

[April]

Groomers, the Democrats, they're rooting the country. Yet most of us, conservative or Democrat, Republican, doesn't matter, can't afford the basic costs of living. And we're all working more hours than ever before. By the way. The average American worker works more hours for less money. And we know where that money is going to the ultra top. And we're, we're part of a huge distraction. I'm so passionate about this because when it comes to pro family policies, raising the cost of the minimum or raising the minimum wage, lowering affordable health care costs, these are pro family values. And instead the right is trying to gut Medicaid. The right is trying to enshrine permanent tax cuts for the upper class. It doesn't help. It doesn't help. It's not going to do us any favors. So it's just so, it's so frustrating to watch the propaganda machine distract Americans from what really matters. We are all suffering. And you think MAGA person that the, that the 10th grader who's a trans girl in sports is the problem for why you can't keep a roof over your head without going into major, major debt. It's crazy.

[Tim]

Well, and the, the one reason why I think Trump is giving access to so many white evangelicals get, you know, doing worship Events at the doing the faith office. Creating a task force to weed out anti Christian bias is to keep them all feeling like they have this access to power, like they are giving, being given power that, that Trump's trying to make this nation a white Christian nation. And I don't know if they're just not seeing everything that's happening or if they're just being willfully ignorant because of the power that Trump is giving them because they. It's really not a right versus left issue.

[April]

It's not.

[Tim]

It is at the top, but when we're talking about the middle class and lower class, like regular, average American, hard working American citizens, yes, the disparity should be up and down. It's not right versus left because what Trump's doing is going to impact negatively.

[April]

All of us, 100%.

[Tim]

All of us. But there's a certain group of people that have bought into Trump being this Christian hero. Trump being this economic savior, think he can do no wrong. That literally are just, they, they will defend him. Like they're still just defending him so much. It's, it's a cult. Honestly. Like, I have to read you this one comment that I got because yesterday I made this post and it was based on a. I made this. This is my protest sign when I've gone to protest, but it just says, I just like, hey, Christians, Trump or Jesus, you can't serve both, right? Which I think is a. I stand by that. I said what I said you cannot, you cannot actively serve and support Donald Trump while following the teachings of Jesus. They, they go against each other. They conflict. They're contradiction. So I made that post, right? And then someone said, Trump is doing great things. Is it greater than Jesus did? Absolutely not. Nowhere near what Jesus did. But Trump is furthering what Jesus did by serving justice and protecting the interests of Americans.

[April]

Oh my God.

[Tim]

Just like that verse, you know, For God so loved the world that he sent his only son to protect the interests of Americans.

[April]

I. That's a real comment.

[Tim]

That is a real comment. It's like I just want to shake people like, what, what are you doing? What are you doing?

[April]

Can I just say that I really agree with you? It's top versus bottom. There are Democratic elites that have been in politics for too long who have, who know what's going on, who have made a lot of money, who are sold out to corporate interests. And, and this is the problem, right? The problem right now we're facing is that we know what's going on with the right. We all agree it's bad. But Democrats have not grown to spine and they have some serious political corruption in their ranks as well. Yeah, we need a populist movement because it's, Listen, this is, this study I just cited was over the past 20 years, 23 years. There have been Democrats in power in those 23 years. You know, so to make it seem like it's all just one side all the time, I think is disingenuous. I think that it's largely Republicans. I think that, that they're the ones trying to stop bills. They fought Obama during Obamacare. Right. I mean, no doubt. But to make it seem like it's left versus Right. No, it's, it's top versus bottom. It just is. And you know, when you see the data and you see the wealth gap exploding and you realize that any part of a stable country needs a thriving middle class. That's what happened in the 40s and the 50s, et cetera. Right. And you see that middle class shrinking today. That creates political unrest because you have these extremes, right? And the people who were sold this bill, this dream of, hey, if you work hard in America, you can make it. That's not true. That's not true for the majority of Americans, myself included. My partner and I pinch the pennies. We try and work whatever system we can to make sure that we can get affordable health care for our kids. Right. I work more than one job. Often we have to do that to survive. Just is what it is.

[Tim]

Yeah. No, you're totally right. It's, I mean, and I don't like being like both sides are bad because right now.

[April]

Right.

[Tim]

One side is very, very, very bad. You know, like one side's fascist and the other side's not. So like on that, like, I, I, right now I'm rooting for everybody that's going against fascism, which I feel like is such a low bar, you know, but generally speaking, you're. Yes, it's, it's the top versus bottom situation right now. Yeah. Okay, so do we, should we move on?

[April]

Yeah. To Eric for taxis. Even better. You want to upgrade, which is.

[Tim]

This is a little lighter hearted.

[April]

Ah, don't freak out. It's Josh Hawley on the screen. Yeah, I mean, this is not our weird Christian video. We have, we have one more to show you. But we did want to at least give this one a shout out. Maybe it's a runner up for this week. This is Josh Hawley and Eric Metaxas. Eric Metaxas is a Christian nationalist. He wrote a terrible biography on Dietrich Bonhoeffer that has been ripped to shreds by every credible Bonhoeffer scholar out there. And this is them talking about, what is it? Self sacrifice and manliness.

[Tim]

Oh, yeah, just.

[April]

Just watch it. Yeah, why not?

[Tim]

We'll talk about it.

[April]

Sacrifice is how you know it's real. And for men, I want to say, you know, you're serious about it. When you're willing to sacrifice, when it's costing you something, it is worth something. And we need to say to men, ultimately, our lives are meant to be a sacrifice. We're meant to lay down our lives on behalf of our wives, on behalf of our children, on behalf of our country, if need be. And putting your life onto that altar as a sacrifice, there is nothing more noble than that and nothing that mirrors the character of Christ Jesus than that. And that takes courage. It takes humility. It takes surrender. It reveals grace. And those are ultimately the greatest, most profound, most empowering concepts in all of our civilization. And of course, we've touched on it, but that is at the heart of everything we're talking about, that men are called by God to be strong for others.

[Tim]

That's right.

[April]

Not for themselves, but for others. And that the idea of. But Jesus is the ultimate example of that, the self sacrifice for others, which is really. It's so humbling when you. I mean, again, I just think of my dad sacrificing for us. That gives you total moral authority. You know, when you sacrifice for others, then they should shut up and do what you say. What? First off, can I just say the obvious? You know, their. Their commander in chief, their savior in chief. Trump doesn't do any of that. Just to be clear, he is a.

[Tim]

He sacrifices his paycheck while bringing in millions elsewhere.

[April]

That's like. That's like me losing a penny, being like, I sacrifice a lot for my family. I mean, I lose pennies every week. I really sacrifice financially for, like, it's ridiculous.

[Tim]

Jesus. But, wow, it just is so funny that these men are like men.

[April]

There.

[Tim]

They do the ultimate sacrifice.

[April]

Ultimate.

[Tim]

I'm like, hello, have you heard of this little group of people called women?

[April]

No.

[Tim]

Who have been sacrificing our backs for centuries and millennia to raise your children, to cook your food, because we were forced to for so long because of the patriarchy. And now they're trying to go back to that because we couldn't do what we wanted to do because men had to puff their little arms out and go to wars in the name of sacrifice and protecting women when their wars are over. Sometimes the stupidest shit. What war has ever been started by someone who didn't have a penis? Don't talk to me about sacrifice, Eric.

[April]

No, you're right. You're right, it's. I mean, if that's the standard, then I should be listening to Sarah way more than she would ever listen to me. Like, she's the one who sacrifice. I mean, listen, this is a real conversation. Like, this is just real talk, right? Me and Sarah have talked about a lot. How, like just with how our dynamic worked out with like, I do this for a living to make financial income, right, so we can pay bills. She's with the kids a lot and she very much has told me, like, she feels like she sacrificed a lot of herself to raise these two kids. You know, while I'm doing this and we talk about that, we're trying to make it, you know, we're managing it. Well, she understands what's going on. But like, it's a real conversation we have. I'm like, I agree. Like, Sarah, the second our youngest goes to preschool, like, please, like, I want to get a job. Like, do whatever you want. Because yes, women often are the ones sacrificing their well being themselves, who they are, in the name of, you know, raising kids or something. And it's not the men who are, geez, I'm sorry I'm in the weeds here. But like, it just, it's wild to me. And if that's the standard, sacrificing gives you ultimate moral authority to be listened to, then we should all be listening to women.

[Tim]

Yeah, that's just so wild. Like when you give something up that gives you moral authority and everyone should just do whatever you say.

[April]

Oh my God.

[Tim]

What are you talking about?

[April]

That is crazy.

[Tim]

You have these men, these like wealthy men who've probably never done a hard day's work in their life. They sit behind their computers. I mean, I don't know, maybe they have, but they act like they're like going out and hunting and like physically bringing home bacon. They're not doing that.

[April]

No, no.

[Tim]

They live in their very fancy houses and they make money. I don't know how much money Eric is worth, but I'm sure it's a lot. He makes a lot of money from his book sales probably. And they talk as if, like, oh, it is just so hard to be a man.

[April]

It's so hard.

[Tim]

Hard. It is so hard to have all the power and to be able to make decisions for my whole family, you know, that that is such a, such a sacrifice that I Have to do.

[April]

According to this website, this might not be true. Arrogant taxes is worth about $4 million. And you know, it must be hard to be a man in America who is a MAGA loving patriot who has all the power in the world. Like, wow, tough life. So you're, you're, you're. You have all the access to power that you want. You tour the country, people applaud you, you sell books and you're like, right next to Donald Trump right now. But yeah, it's so tough to be you, Eric. And Josh. By the way, Josh Hawley is the same dude who ran like a coward when the January 6th insurrection happened. Remember, he first, he has that picture of him holding up his fist like this, like, yeah, protesters, solidarity. And then two seconds later, he's running across, across a camera like a little, you know, wimp. I mean, it's just that they're projecting who they want to be, but who they aren't.

[Tim]

And I don't care. I don't really care. You know, I feel you have all these like module men. They're like, I take a bullet for my woman. Okay, would you make the bed for her?

[April]

Right, Exactly. Would you do the dishes? Will you vacuum?

[Tim]

Right, yeah. Would you live for me through the hard times? Right, Right out, like puffing your chest and being a freaking dictator in the house.

[April]

Like, geez, right?

[Tim]

I don't know. Do you, Would you respect my autonomy? Could you do that?

[April]

No. But I would take a hypothetical bullet from you in some hypothetical scenario. Therefore, I love you, but I can't make the bed. Sorry.

[Tim]

Right. Ah, it's just so. I'm just so over it. I'm just so over it. These men. And I, I love men. Listen, I love all people, right? But you have these certain right wing men that think they are just so important and it's got to just be like this deep rooted insecurity, right? It's got to be that. Because I don't know why else you'd get. Get in a room to like, oh, sacrifice. Look how much. Look how much we sacrifice. Men. Men are so great. Look, look at, look at the way we do. We're just like Jesus. We're just like Jesus. These women are so fortunate to have us in their lives.

[April]

It's like, I mean, look, look, there's one in. In our chat. This guy says, sleek. The man on this podcast, that's me is so beta. Okay.

[Tim]

Was he talking about you, though? Maybe he was talking about Josh Hawley.

[April]

Oh, maybe.

[Tim]

I know it's hard to Know, these days.

[April]

Yeah, I'll take.

[Tim]

But it could be talking about you.

[April]

I mean, I'll sacrifice April. I will sacrifice. I will sacrifice my own, you know, well, being. And I'll. I'll take it on the chin. Ah, persecution. It's so tough to be on this podcast. It's so tough, the life I have. Hearing comments from rando people in the. In the chat. It's tough being a man. But now that I have sacrificed, you have to listen to me, because I sacrificed.

[Tim]

Oh, my gosh, it's just so stupid. Have you ever been around a man with a head cold? That's me.

[April]

I'm the worst.

[Tim]

Like, you're dying.

[April]

Look, the stereotype is true. I mean, it's true. I'm trying to get better, but I feel like I'm dying, therefore I must be dying. Yeah, I'm terrible. No, I'm. I'm. I'm horrible when I get cold. I mean, look, both things can be true at the same time. Okay, people, before we get, you know, bashed for being anti man. We're not anti man. And. What. Why are you laughing at?

[Tim]

Nothing. I'm just laughing. I was just laughing. We're not.

[April]

We're not. Yeah, we're not at all. Okay. And. And there's a lot of things that we could talk about and that we probably will in the future about the fact that a lot of men feel like they're being, you know, it's just kind of like there's loneliness in. In the. In that world. There's a really high rate of unaliving right now happening real issues that we should be talking about for sure. But these people, these. These types of men, these Josh Hawleys of the world that say this stuff, it's just. It's like delusional. It's delusional.

[Tim]

Yeah.

[April]

And it's. It's. I'm not sure what to say. It's comical to me.

[Tim]

I. There is a part of me that does have some empathy for some young men right now who overwhelmingly are. Are moving right wing, right? Because you have people, men. You have men like Josh Holly. You have these macho men that are conservative that are saying, hey, you are lonely. We get it. It's not your fault. It's feminists. It's feminists who don't want a man to take care of them anymore because it, like they're. They're all. There are men being now taught to. That it is their godly role to take care of and provide for a family, while you also have women who are now. Maybe not now, but in the last decade or so, have been gaining more rights, have been feeling the freedom to do what we want to do, to have bodily autonomy, to be able to be human beings, to be equal with men, which we're still not equal with men, but we. We know our worth as. As women. Like, it's not that we are better than men. We just know we're equal. We are human beings. We have a right to work if we want. We have a right to take care of our family if we want. Like, we have the right to make decisions for ourselves. And a lot of women today are choosing not to be with a patriarchal man that wants to stuff women in kitchens and be his little sex slave when he comes home. That is something that a lot of these families are like, whether we want to admit it or not. And so you have these men that can't find women that want to just admit that want to just become someone's little servant, because you have women that want to be seen as women that want a partnership. And there's men that feel like, oh, they're not a real man unless they can take control of a woman. There was, like, a whole patriarchy fest. Make Women Great Again was a conference that was happening in Orlando. In Orlando, you have the Mark Driscolls of the world that have the stronger men's conference that are pushing these gender roles that put men up top and women at the bottom and women. We're just tired of it. We're tired of it. I'm not less of a person because I was born with a vagina. I'm just saying. And it's just. It's just all stupid. I'm sorry. I'm on a rant today. I've got allergies, and I rant away, and I'm tired, and I've been talking about this for 10 years, and I'm just tired. I'm tired of it.

[April]

I'm with you. And I mean, can I say. And on top of that, I think that, at least for me, like, I don't want to be in charge of everything. It's exhausting. Like, I don't want to. Like, patriarchy hurts women of ton, and it also hurts men. Like, it's not good, period. I don't like this idea of it's all on my shoulders to sustain everything and to be, like, this perfect human being at all times and to always give, give, give, and 24 7, and it's all on me. Like, no, there should Be equity here. Like we, we, me and Sarah, we have a great marriage. We co parent our children, we do chores together. I sweep up, she'll sweep up, I do the launch. You might, you know, throw something in the trash once a year. That's inside joke. Cause I always take out the trash. That's, that's my responsibility. But you get my point. Like we do things together, we communicate together, we make decisions together. I don't want it to be all on me. I don't want the world on my shoulders to be some strong, tough man who sacrifices and therefore I'm owed complete allegiance and loyalty. Who wants to live like that. Like this dictatorship mentality from these men that I was taught of good men lead. I'm like, well how about people can lead? Like how about just good people can co lead in the relationship? Like it's, it's quite possible. And I think what all I'll say about this, I know we're a little over time here, we have to get the weird Christianship. But last thought, maybe we can export future down the line is that I do think that for right or for wrong, for fact or for fiction, the reality is there's a narrative that the right has a message for men. That message sucks. Okay, sure, but it's attractive for some reason. It, it hits some things that, that young men in particular are drawn to. Whether it's fitness or work it working out or gaming, whatever. The left I don't think has a better alternative right now for men as far as a message goes, like a young men right, like hey, this is the message that we want to give you of like hey, yes, masculine and feminine are both good attributes and we need both for the world to flourish. I don't know what that messaging is. I'm not sure how it works. I don't want people to misconstrue me for saying that, you know, that. That we have to coddle to toxic masculinity. Of course not. But I do think as we navigate the future, right, we want to give people in particular in this conversation, men some kind of messaging that is attractive for them to be brought into that curates equity and healthy outcomes and respect and dignity, right for everyone involved. And that's a better world for all of us. That's a better world for you, for me, for our kids. It's a more kind world or more justice oriented world. And we need both, right? You need the divine feminine and you need the divine masculine to come together to make this world great. So we need both yeah.

[Tim]

And I think everybody has mad, both masculine and feminine traits too. It's not this, this, you know, black and white binary system that is also very patriarchal. Like, the whole bigender binary is a patriarchal system. So, like, if I have one message to young men, if you're a young man out there looking for a woman, you feel like you can't find someone, don't blame the women. It's not fair.

[April]

Right.

[Tim]

You know, if, if you have, if you're asking yourself like, oh, I want to find a young woman that I can take care of, you know, you should. The question should be, I want to find a woman that I can partner with and help empower her as she empowers me.

[April]

Yes. Mutuality. That's it.

[Tim]

Yeah. Look inward, be a better man and.

[April]

Be angry at the men in charge who set it up this way. Like, be mad at them. Like, it's, again, it's white men who rule America, largely. So if you're mad at, like, you know, the college loan system and how predatory it is, blame a white man for that. If you're mad that your health care is out of control, that you can't afford rent, that you can't find a job that covers your costs, blame a white man for that. Because most likely that's who's responsible for the systems that have created these outcomes. You know, like, geez. Anyway, I mean, I'm being a little facetious there, but you get the point. Okay. Should we move on and land this plane?

[Tim]

Yeah, let's land it.

[April]

What a ranty episode. Can we just say that both of us have been ranty today? I don't know. Thanks, friends, by the way, for being here. It truly means the world. If you're live and watching, please make sure to give this video a like, it helps get it out to more and more people. I don't think I have the full jingle today. I think I forgot it again because I, it is, I, I, I, it's my fault. Okay.

[Tim]

I will take accountability though.

[April]

Right?

[Tim]

The audio is all we need.

[April]

I have, I have it. Hold on. Here it is. It is, Is it this one?

[Tim]

Christian?

[April]

The end. Okay. There's no ding on that one. Good enough. Okay. Today's weird. Christian. Shit. Where is it? Where is it? Okay, you wanna, you wanna cue us up here?

[Tim]

Yeah, I just wanna shout out. Melissa in the chat said we need a fully staffed, fully funded FAA to land this plane. That was a good joke. But also, do not fly, do not.

[April]

Fly into Newark, New Jersey. That's all I'll say. Do not do that. That.

[Tim]

All right, so for those. For those listening, this video went viral. I saw it on Tick Tock and Instagram. It's. I think it's a couple daughters that look to be in their 20s. Maybe they're filming. They. They clearly start the video in, like, the middle of this debate with their mom. They're sitting at a gas station. And we'll just. We'll just play it and then we'll talk about it. You are not in control of when you die. If you left the car on and we died, it would not be Jesus's fault. It would be your fault. It would be God's will. Honey. No, it would be Donna's will. It would be God's will. Not like jumping out of a plane without a parachute. But it was God's will. It is. Guys, you know these things. God chose the day that we were going to die. The day that we're born. He knows every single number of hair on your head.

[April]

You know this.

[Tim]

You went to Christian school. You learned this in your home. You can't choose the day you die. If you left the car on and it blows up because we're getting gas and I die, it's because God chose today as the day of your homegoing. Well, then why.

[April]

Wow.

[Tim]

That, like, circular thinking.

[April]

Wow.

[Tim]

Oh, I don't miss it at all.

[April]

If you believe that, though, I see how you get there. Right. If you believe that everything is determined by God, if that God's in full control, then yeah. Even if another human does it, it's still God that did it. This is. I mean, this is how I grew up. This is Calvinism. This is Calvinism. The idea is that. Is that there's not. And this is what RC Sproul, a very famous American Calvinist, would say is that there's not one rogue molecule, according to God, meaning he is sovereignly decreeing and determining every possible outcome, including terrible ones. Like John. John Piper would say that even someone who's sa'd, it was because of God's will for that person to get sa'd. But you can rest in knowing that there was. That there was a divine purpose in the assault that is being used for God's glory. That's not an exaggeration. John Piper has actually said that, just so we're clear.

[Tim]

Yeah. And it's kind of how people misuse that verse that God works all things together for good. For them who love God, we're called, according to his purpose. Like they. They take these things it's, it's just a cop out. This whole belief system, it's a way to totally escape accountability because if I do something, it's because God wanted me to do that and he willed it well before I was even in existence.

[April]

But like 100.

[Tim]

But it's just so wild too, because you all also believe in free will, right? I don't know. It's just, it's a very. That this belief, this ideology just does not make any sense.

[April]

Well, you know, I used to believe it like wholesale. And I'm trying to think what was it that was compelling? I think what was compelling for me was first, that I thought it was what the Bible clearly taught and the Bible is God's word. I think second, it gave me a weird sense of comfort knowing that I'm totally not in control, but God is. So whatever happens is by design. Of course, as a white CIS man in America, I didn't really face a lot of hardships, right? So I wasn't thinking about being assaulted when I walked home alone from somewhere. I wasn't thinking about that happening to me or other things. And so I do think that there is a certain level of, like, that as well, right, where it's like, well, God chose me, wretched man that I am. It's almost like a, it's, it's like a false piety, right, where these people say, well, listen, I don't deserve God's gift. I was just chosen by God arbitrarily and I'm really a wretched sinner. It's, it's like a humble brag, right? But yeah, I mean, I, I used to believe it, I used to listen to it, I used to espouse it and it's, it's a real belief.

[Tim]

So I was an average Calvinist, but I did used to believe that God was in control of everything up until my dad died. Like, I believe that God was going to heal my dad of cancer and then God did not. So then I had to reconcile like, okay, either God. Like for a while I was like, okay, well, God just chose for my dad to die. And I was angry at God for a while and then that opened all these other things. I was like, well then that means God is okay with all of these other atrocities in the world that are happening. And I also believe that God is a good God and that there's no good that comes from anybody but him, that all goodness and morality comes from God. And then I realized I can't believe these two things at the same time. Anymore because they contradict either God is all powerful and is controlling every little thing in this world, or God is a good God.

[April]

Right. Which of course the answer to that. Right in the evangelical world as well. God's ways are not our ways. Right. We're not God. But ironically, they're actually making the same claim that they actually understand God and that we don't. So they're actually saying that. That they know God's ways but. But that people like you and I don't because we're using our, Our. Our rational faculties of saying, wait, a good God can't be all good and all powerful and still allow mass suffering in the world of his creation. And most of those people, because they never knew Christ, are going to burn in hell forever. Like, what kind of God is all powerful, creates humans, lets many of them suffer, but because they didn't pray the right prayer or become the right type of Christian, burns in hell forever. Why? Why make creation in the first place? Unless you just like watching people be tortured forever in hell. Like when you add up all those key points, they do not make sense. Or we are ruled by a tyrannical, cruel God and we're all screwed. Ultimately, it's. It's one of the two.

[Tim]

Yeah. I mean, honestly, that going down that exact same thought process was what made me stop believing in eternal conscious torment.

[April]

Same.

[Tim]

It's like if I want to believe that God is about love, which I do believe, then I cannot believe in an eternal conscious torment hell for anybody who just doesn't happen to believe the right things. Not to mention the teachings of Jesus. He talks about behaviors. He talks about what to do in this life, how to be good citizens, how to love your neighbor, how to love your enemies. He's talking about actions. He very rarely talks about the importance of believing the right things 100% like belief is secondary to action. But in the evangelical world, I was taught that as long as you believed the right things, you go to heaven. And it doesn't matter how good of a person you are, if you believe the wrong thing, you go to hell. And to me, that is not a good God and that is not a God that I would ever want to serve.

[April]

Well, April, obviously that only applies if you're straight. If you were gay and believe all the right things, you still weren't a Christian. Right? Or if you were a progressive Christian and believe all the right things, you definitely. Yeah. Are you pro choice? Oh, definitely not a Christian. Also. Just going back to that. Josh Hawley Eric for taxis clip notice how they talk about like following Jesus. Jesus lived life of sacrifice. Sure. True. Yeah, absolutely. So follow in his footsteps. Where's your enemy? Love, Josh Hawley. Where's your enemy? Love, Eric Metaxas. Where is your. What you do for the least of these you do unto me. Instead. They are part of a regime that advocates for the opposite. That. That's. I mean, and this is the full, full circle moment, right? Why are you and I so tired? Because we've been calling this out for a decade and I'm freaking tired of saying the same thing over and over. And having some bro evangelical in the comments be like, like, you were never a real Christian to begin with. You don't understand the Bible. No, the Bible's clear on these issues, bro. Oh, you don't even know your ex to Jesus. Like, dude, miss me with that. Are you kidding me? Like, I know what I'm talking about. I've been doing this for a freaking decade. I've been a committed Christian, white evangelical flavor, by the way, since I was four freaking years old. My pet. I don't want to brag like Paul, but you want like a golden boy Christian. I have a freaking laundry list of achievements in this world that proves I was all in. And then there's some random bro on the Internet. Nah, you were never saved to begin with. Like, dude, just, oh my God, go away.

[Tim]

The amount of comments I get when I'm like talking about the teachings of Jesus and how we cannot support this administration while actively following Jesus. Like, you've never been to church. Like, oh my gosh, my dad, my grandfather, both were pastors. I went to church multiple times a week my entire freaking life.

[April]

Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday, of course, harvest festivals, Christmas, Easter, like, give me a break. You know what?

[Tim]

Not to mention, yeah, the like week long conferences, church camp, acquire the fire, vacation, Bible school. I went to freaking Christian school. I was Christian. Homeschooled.

[April]

Homeschooled Christian school. Awana child evangelism, fellowship, three month long missions trip. Okay, here's what we gotta do. I don't know when there's no date for this, friends. We need to do a Tim and April uncensored on a nighttime and just watch some of those videos that we can't, we can't get to in these lives. Just these bros saying the stupidest stuff. Like I saw someone really get angry because they were like, what do they say? They said something like, like, Jesus followed the whole Bible so we have to as well. And I'm like, jesus didn't have a Bible. He had the Torah. He did not have a Protestant Bible. I can't believe I have to tell you this, but Jesus did not have an English Protestant Bible in his day. It wasn't invented yet. So we need a place where we can laugh some steam. I can order Taco Bell, you can drink if you want. And we just watch some weird Christian shit for a few hours with our community late at night and just go uncensored because we need a place. We need a place.

[Tim]

Yeah. Well, I'm convinced the people that have deconstructed and are deconstructing now are the ones who were in it the most. And the reason we're deconstructing is because we believed it hook, line, and sinker. Like, we were in the depths. We perpetuated this stuff. We believed it more than anything. And then we realized it was so hypocritical that we're like, hey, this is not what Jesus said. I actually want to follow Jesus. Y' all have freaking lied to me.

[April]

I. I literally am trying to out fundamental my own fundamentalism. I'm. I'm more committed to Jesus than I was as an evangelical Christian. Like, I'm more radical. I'm. I'm more. I'm more all in because I take the teachings of Jesus seriously. Right. Like, that's. That's the craziest part is like, my beef with evangelical fundamentalists is not that they take the Bible too seriously. They don't take it seriously enough. They don't take it on its own terms, in its own context. They pillage the Bible. They think it's inerrant when it's not. Okay, this is a different topic. But I'm with you all to say sorry.

[Tim]

I know.

[April]

Fired up.

[Tim]

And they're all like, oh, Donald Trump's bringing Christianity back. Like, this is a Christian nation. I'm like, okay, well then if this is such a Christian nation, why are so many people freaking terrified?

[April]

Yeah. And poor.

[Tim]

Why are we scared?

[April]

We have. We are the richest country in the world. We have. Was it 3%? I think we have 3% of the world's population and 25 of the world's resources. There is no damn reason why every person in this country cannot have a roof over their head. Affordable health care, affordable education, a livable wage. There's just no reason. Unless it's greed. Greed is the only reason. Because we have enough. There's more than enough. It's freaking greed only.

[Tim]

Jesus said something about rich people.

[April]

No, no, that's. That. It's a hard issue. April, he didn't really mean literally. All right, all right, all right. We gotta go. I'm done with this.

[Tim]

Yeah, we gotta go. It's been 10 years and now an hour and 40 minutes.

[April]

All right, friends. Well, we'll be back here next Thursday. Stay tuned for our Monday drop. Make sure you subscribe to the channel if you're listening on podcast. Thank you so much. Feel free to share this episode. Talk to you all later.

[Tim]

Bye.

[April]

Stupid Evil Sam.