← The Tim & April Show
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- [00:01]
April
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- [00:30]
Beecher
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- [00:50]
April
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- [00:54]
Beecher
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- [00:59]
April
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- [01:04]
Beecher
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April
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- [01:12]
Beecher
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- [01:19]
April
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- [01:27]
Beecher
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April
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April
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- [03:48]
Beecher
Here's my head. Hello everyone. I've been waiting back there for several hours. I'm glad April finally called me out. She told me to start a. No, I'm just kidding. It's great to be here.
- [03:58]
April
Yeah. So you've heard me talk about Beecher. This is my spouse. I've mentioned them many times before on the show and they are filling in for Tim today.
- [04:07]
Beecher
And I'm frequently in the chat during these. So I have made it out of the chat here in real life and it's good to be here with y' all.
- [04:16]
April
I will say Beecher sometimes intentionally makes comments in the chat to make me blush or to throw me off. So I try not to read what they say. I'm a little nervous because they're on a live. We're live right now. And sometimes I got a real Beacher in. So, like, I am not responsible for anything Beacher says today.
- [04:37]
Beecher
Like we could have done the two screen thing where I was in a different room on a different screen, but then April wouldn't be able to kick me when I was saying something I shouldn't be saying. So if you see me wince, it's probably because April's letting me know I need to, you know, move on.
- [04:50]
April
Yes. So Tim normally runs all the little fancy schmancy things. I do want to give myself a round of applause because I successfully did the countdown and the Stinger and then came to my shot and I was stressed and I've got other technical things that I'll be doing, but I just asked today to Give me some grace, because I just. I haven't done this before. So. Thanks, Tim. Hope you're having fun in California. All right.
- [05:19]
Beecher
It sounded like you were waiting on Tim to respond, but in California, it was like silence. Like, am I supposed to be saying something?
- [05:25]
April
Okay, so we're going to talk about some LGBTQ stories that are in the news this week and last week. But before we do that, I want to talk about this really funny thing that has happened. There's this thing going around online. It's a bunch of Trump memes with Taco, because there's this thing on Wall street and people that do stocks and the stock market and all that, and they call him Taco Trump or just Taco. And you want to tell him what the acronym stands for?
- [06:01]
Beecher
Yeah, it stands for Trump always chickens out. Because what we're realizing, especially with the tariffs, when you have the markets, you can see very clearly that Trump announces something and he never actually follows through with it. Which I will say, if we have to have a dictator trying to take over our country, at least he's somebody that regularly chickens out on almost everything he says.
- [06:25]
April
Yeah. And there's this. So this is from Business Insider. This is a graph. If you're listening, it shows all the times Trump paused tariffs or floated the ideas from tariffs and how the stock market immediately reacts. Like, when he pauses the tariffs, the stock market bounces, and then when he announces tariffs, you know, it goes back down. And they were saying, in other words. This is from Business Insider. When Trump announces new tariff policies, it might be a good time to buy. And so people are calling him out on his bluff. And a news reporter recently asked him about it. I don't know if Trump even knew that he was being Taco chicken memed, but listen to this exchange, because I thought this was funny. Mr. President, Wall street analysts have coined a new term called the taco trade. They're saying, Trump always chickens out on your tariff threats, and that's why markets are higher this week. What's your response to that?
- [07:23]
Donald Trump
I kick out.
- [07:24]
April
Chicken out.
- [07:25]
Donald Trump
Oh, isn't that nice? Chicken out. I've never heard that. You mean because I reduced China from 145% that I set down to 100 and then down to another number, and I said, you have to open up your whole country. And because I gave the European Union a 50% tax tariff. And they called up and they said, please, let's meet right now. Please, let's meet right now. And I said, okay, I'll give you till July I actually asked them, I said, what's to date? Because they weren't willing to meet. And after I did what I did, they said, we'll meet anytime you want. And we have an end date of July 9th. You call that chickening out? Because we have $14 trillion now invested, committed to investing. When Biden didn't have practically anything Biden, this country was dying. You know, we have the hottest country anywhere in the world. I went to Saudi Arabia, the king told me, he said, you got the hottest. We have the hottest country in the world right now. Six months ago, this country was stone cold dead. We had a dead country. We had a country people didn't think it was going to survive. And you ask a nasty question like that, it's called negotiation. You set a number, and if you go down, you know, if I set a number at a ridiculous high number and I go down a little bit, you know, a little bit, they want me to hold that number. 145% tariff even. I said, man, that really got up. You know how it got. Because of fentanyl and many other things. And you added it up. I said, where are we now? We're at 145%. I said, woo.
- [09:02]
April
He's still going.
- [09:03]
Beecher
I said, woo.
- [09:03]
Donald Trump
That's high. They were doing no business whatsoever and they were having a lot of problems. We were very nice to China. I don't know if they're going to be nice to us, but we're very nice to China. And in many ways, I think we really helped China tremendously because, you know, they were having great difficulties because we were basically going cold turkey with China. We were doing no business because of the tariff, because it was so high. But I knew that. But don't ever say what you said. That's a nasty question. Go ahead. To me, that's the nastiest question.
- [09:33]
Beecher
To me, that's the nastiest question. That's my favorite part of it.
- [09:36]
April
To me, asking a question on how I feel about what people are actually saying about me is nasty. And also, I love at the beginning, too, he's like, what do you mean I chicken out? You mean in the way that I said I was going to do a tariff and then chickened out from it. He basically explains all the times he did chicken out. He's like, what do you mean by that?
- [09:58]
Beecher
And as a. So if you all know, I'm a college professor and my students have to write essays sometimes. If somebody wrote an essay like Trump talks about world politics, they would receive an f Like, they were like, I have to meet with you, I have to meet with you. And then they, you know, it just. He says tax, and it's not really a tax, it's a tariff. We were the hottest. He said we were the hottest country. We're the hottest country. And when Biden was here, we were stone cold. It's like there's no details, there's no substance to any of this. He just rambles. And I don't.
- [10:29]
April
Sometimes I still have this out of body experience where I look at Donald Trump and I'm like, how is he our president? He just.
- [10:37]
Beecher
That's okay. He said in 2016 he was gonna get more presidential. Remember when he was running? So it's gonna happen soon.
- [10:43]
April
Is it even possible for him to answer a question without bringing up Joe Biden? Like, and also, our country was, what, stone dead cold six months ago? I mean, we were cold. We were in winter.
- [10:56]
Beecher
Yeah. That's what that literally means.
- [10:58]
April
Climate change. All right, so there's our Donald Trump clip for the day. I don't think we're talking about him again, which is kind of nice.
- [11:10]
Beecher
Might get mentioned a little later. I mean, how does anybody go any hour and a half long conversation without mentioning him? But that was the big. Yeah, that's the big one.
- [11:19]
April
Yeah. So in the news, this came out just this week, this is an AP article. The headline says, utah lawmakers said gender affirming care is harmful to kids. Their own study contradicts that claim. So basically the Utah Republicans passed legislation in 2023 that basically banned gender affirming care for people under 18. So for. For minors, basically. And they said transition related surgeries and also hormone therapy therapy and puberty blockers, which are a minimal thing. But so they, they banned it all. They banned it all. And then as part of this legislation, they wanted to. They commissioned a study because they believed and hoped that this study would reinforce the reasons that they came up with this ban. And the study came out and said, there's an actual quote in here.
- [12:22]
Beecher
They said overall, there were positive mental health and psychological functioning outcomes as a result of gender affirming care.
- [12:29]
April
Yeah, that was the conclusion. The conclusion was positive mental health and psychosocial functioning outcomes. And so far, if they've said anything, they basically are doubling down and still running with their law, even though the study they commissioned says that the law causes harm.
- [12:52]
Beecher
Yeah, And I think I will say this. I want to give them a little bit of credit that they actually said, let's commission a study on this, because I Think generally. Christian conservative politicians that are passing laws in the name of Christian nationalism generally avoid studies because they smart enough to know that it's going to come back and prove that they're actually doing something wrong. But so props to them that they actually did the study. Props to them that it took two and a half years. Now, obviously they shouldn't have passed the law before the study. You should do the study, then pass a law based on the results. But now that the results came back and it's not something they like, they're just like, oh, okay, well, never mind. And it's unsurprising that the study came back, because if you look at any of the statistics, really, from any of the medical institutions in the world, transgender healthcare helps people mentally. And yes, there are some people that you could say detransition, but it's a very small number. Very, very. And out of that, even less people actually regret transitioning. They actually detransition because of social pressure. So, like, most of the numbers that you're going to kind of see out there says 9% or less detransition for a certain amount of time. Of that, even less people.
- [14:12]
April
Yeah. Here are some actual regrets. And for some actual statistics, a UK study of over 3,000 gender clinic attendees found a regret rate of just under 0.47%. A United States study that involved 28,000 trans adults showed that 8% detransitioned. But of that, 62% of those people only detransitioned temporarily, and it was due to societal pressure. And then a Danish national cohort found a transitional regret rate of 0.06% per person.
- [14:52]
Beecher
And if you look at people that get knee surgeries, the regret rate is significantly higher than that. If you look at people that undergo chemotherapy treatment, the regret rate is higher than that. Yet we're not talking about banning those things. We're not talking about, you know, going into someone's knee and ripping out a ligament and doing this and doing that and talking this graphic detail to turn the, you know, the political masses off to the idea of it. And so, yeah, it's just, it's. It helps people, and especially youth, because if you. If youth get healthcare to support their gender identity before they turn 18, the risk of suicide is extremely lower.
- [15:37]
April
Yeah. And then the study that Utah put out, they found that patients that were seen at the gender clinic before the age of 18 had a lower risk of suicide compared to those who were referred as an adult. So if you leave gender dysphoria untreated, individuals are Much higher are more likely to experience psychological and social harms. And those are just the stats. Like, that's just factual. And then you also have Donald Trump with all his executive orders declaring there's only two genders or two sexes, which completely ignores the fact that intersex people exist at a very much baseline. And yeah, and it totally goes against too. Republicans are all about individuality and, and.
- [16:26]
Beecher
You know, parents rights with their kids. Like, parents and kids should make decisions, except not on medical things that we disagree with. It's like, that's okay, right?
- [16:36]
April
And the thing is there are people who detransition, but it's a very, very, very, very small percentage. And also people should be able to do what they want with their own bodies.
- [16:46]
Beecher
And as someone who is, who is non binary, who's had dysphoria and you know, present oftentimes gender non conforming, like, I remember going online, like, and researching this whole idea of being the whole researching transgender topics back in like, you know, the early 2000s. And every time someone's like, I transitioned and then I detransitioned, and it was always because, like, oh, I transitioned to be a woman, but then I lost my job and my family and I was treated worse and I was yelled at and all this different stuff. So this is why you shouldn't transition. It was always societal. I never once read something where it said, like, I transitioned. And then, you know, I decided, you know, it's not really for me, and then I kind of walked it back. Which, for the record, if that happens, and I know it does happen in a small minority, great, good. Like, as far as someone who is non binary and gender nonconforming, like, I love that people have the freedom to. Okay, great. If you want to try hormones for a bit and then you decide that's not for you, wonderful. Like, I'm not. I don't want to. As someone that felt a lot of pressure from society to present a certain way, I don't want to project that pressure on anyone to go any certain way. I just want reliable studies to be done us find out if this is actually helping people. And in my life and what I've received medically and just like, socially, it's really helped my life. And if it helps, great. And if it doesn't, then we can look at regulating it or better yet, just let people go. Like, yeah, you know what? This isn't really for me. And then they go back and we can all just live with freedom and independence and. Exactly. As Americans, the land of the free we should be living.
- [18:31]
April
Yeah, it's just a. It's just so. It's stupid. I don't understand the. They've made trans kids and trans people the, the front line of the culture war right now. And trans people are literally just trying to exist. If you hear about trans people and trans issues more often right now, it's only because Republicans are making them the story like all the bathroom bills that Nancy Mace is trying to do. Like you literally. She was. I think it was Nancy Maze. Or was it Lauren Boebert? It was one of them. Just earlier, since Trump came in office a couple months ago, accused a cisgender woman of being trans in their bathroom. Like what, what do they want to. But especially with the bathroom stuff. I don't think any of them have seen trans men. You don't want. According to their own rules, you would be putting trans men with full on beers beards in the women's restroom. They look like men. Like, I don't, I don't know. I do feel like a lot of people, a lot of Republicans too have come across trans people and had no idea they were trans. They just don't know. This episode is brought to you by Factor Optimize your nutrition this year with Factor America's number one ready to eat meal service. Factor's fresh never frozen food. Meals are dietitian approved. Ready to eat in just two minutes, choose from 40 weekly options across eight dietary preferences like calorie smart, protein plus and keto. Eat smarter at FactorMeals.com listen50 and use code listen50 for 50% off plus free shipping on your first box. FactorMeals.com listen50 code listen50 T's and C's apply.
- [20:19]
Beecher
Hey guys, this is Will from Tulsa, Oklahoma. I was introduced to the YouTube channel New Evangelicals about a year ago through my friend Seth Piper, who used to do some volunteer video editing for Tim. I have loved the channel over the past five or six years. I've been on a pretty similar deconstruction.
- [20:41]
April
Journey to Tim and I just loved how his guests and Tim himself have.
- [20:47]
Beecher
Provided me with kind of the language and clarity to describe that spiritual journey. So I loved the what you guys are doing, how you're helping protect the.
- [21:01]
April
Marginal lines from the evangelical church.
- [21:03]
Beecher
And I want to help in whatever.
- [21:04]
April
Little way that I can. So thank you guys for doing what.
- [21:07]
Beecher
You do and please keep it up.
- [21:11]
April
Yeah, another thing that Utah is doing. Didn't they ban pride flags?
- [21:16]
Beecher
Yes.
- [21:16]
April
In the classroom also.
- [21:17]
Beecher
Yes. So about a month. So Idaho passed a Bill for a few months ago that banned Pride Flags in school buildings and classrooms. And then Utah took it a step further about a month ago and said that no Pride flags can be flown in any government building or school. So any local. Local municipalities or anywhere. And so they. Yeah, they took it a step further, which was really a stupid thing to do. So I don't know if y' all know this, but in April's former life, she was actually a film producer. I actually met April in film school. I'm a film professor and a film director, and she actually produced a lot of my. My movies. So there you go. Tidbit about April to learn about. But we actually went to Sundance in 2013, and it was right after we started dating, and that was in Utah. Sundance brought in over $132 million annually to the state of Utah, and they passed this law banning Pride flags right as Sundance was deciding whether or not to relocate to Boulder, Cincinnati, or to stay in Utah. And sure enough, Sundance said, we're going to Boulder because y' all keep passing all of these awful, awful anti LGBTQ bills. Which, for the record, they didn't come out and say that. But you could definitely tell that the Sundance board and community was uneasy staying in a state that was so anti lgbtq. So not only were they doing something that in a way is kind of pointless, like, why are you spending so much time and energy banning Pride flags? But also, you're literally losing millions of dollars and the notoriety of the largest film festival in the world. And it was just really stupid. And for the record, I should say the details of the law actually ban any flag that are not state, country, or municipal flags. So it wasn't just Pride flags, but you could.
- [23:15]
April
But that's the reason. That was the reason.
- [23:17]
Beecher
That was the point. And you might think, like, okay, well, I guess everywhere in Utah just doesn't have pride flags up. Well, on that front, you're wrong, and it's good news. So what a lot of these cities in Utah did, especially Salt Lake City, they officially voted in different versions of their city's flag. And the different versions were a rainbow flag for pride, it was a Juneteenth flag, and it was a transgender flag using the transgender colors. And these flags are, like, obviously, like, a mile away Pride flags, and just very, very clear and bold for the people they're representing. And because they're officially now flags, they can be flown in all of the state, all of the cities, buildings, schools, everywhere. Like, you can. You can fly.
- [24:08]
April
It's amazing.
- [24:09]
Beecher
It's amazing. And also, I think it's a really good. I don't know, lesson for me. I think sometimes I'm like, oh, my gosh, this law is being passed. We have to, like, fight or we have to go, like, protest. And I'm all for that, and I love that. But I also think taking a moment and being like, okay, let's read the rules. And they're trying to regulate freedom of expression. They're trying to regulate identities. We. Which is actually very, very, very tough to do. So there's probably going to be cracks in places and ways that we can actually, you know, work in a workaround where we aren't directly fighting them, but we're also saying, like, yeah, it didn't work. You just spent six months passing this bill, and it has no effect on us.
- [24:53]
April
Yeah. It's also a weird decision, too, for them to ban Pride flags and to be. And even the transgender affirming career ban. Also, when you do have such a progressive film festival, like, probably the most popular film festival, like, in the world is Sundance, and it's a huge economy boost for Utah and for their. For them to just shoot themselves in the foot like that. Like, look at what's happened with Target with them rolling back dei. And last year, they rolled back a lot of their pride stuff, which I was super disappointed in, because I used to love going to the Target Pride section because it was just awesome. Thanks, tj, for the super chat. And Target's actually, like, they've lost millions and millions of dollars. I do want to say props to leftists and liberals, because I remember when the right was trying to ban. To boycott Target over the transgender bathroom stuff. I don't remember Target really being that negatively impacted. Buy it. But. But the Target CEO is having to, like, take way less money in order to offset how much money they've lost. So you could have learned from Target Utah. But anyway. Oh, you know what I just realized? Oh, you came out to me in Utah.
- [26:15]
Beecher
Yes. I mean.
- [26:16]
April
I mean, came out is a strong word because we didn't know what gender dysphoria was.
- [26:20]
Beecher
But, yeah, no, right. It was a month into dating, and I was like, April, when I was in fifth grade, I wore my sister's clothes, and I thought about it, like, every day since. And somehow we were so Christian and at, you know, a Christian university, and we still. You still stayed with me. So. Yeah, you're right. But, yeah, Sundance has a special place in our story. And, I mean, I literally teach film. I love talking about films. I'M making my next short film right now, which is a pro queer story about a trans woman going on a first date. And so I'm going to submit to Sundance and who knows, maybe I'll get in this last year that's in Park City. But anyway, so anytime you talk about movies, that definitely can get me off course a bit.
- [26:58]
April
Yeah. So we're going to talk about. We have two more stories to discuss. And these are, they're very close to home.
- [27:07]
Beecher
I would say they're probably smaller stories than what the Tim and April show often covers because it's not like huge government national news, but I think it's worth talking about.
- [27:19]
April
Yeah. So the first one, let me see if I can find it. Basically, there are two Christian schools. One is in Cleveland, Tennessee, and the other one is in near Atlanta, Georgia. So the first one we're going to talk about is a school called Tennessee Christian Preparatory School in Cleveland, Tennessee. Now, Cleveland, Tennessee, is where Beecher and I lived for seven years. Beecher taught at a conservative Christian college there.
- [27:45]
Beecher
I lived there for 11 years of my life. But April and I lived there for seven.
- [27:48]
April
Yeah, Beecher went there for undergrad. And if anyone's heard me talk about this story or read my book, there was some major, like, Black Lives Matter protests going on in 2020 where we were trying to protest our Confederate statue and the locals were super racist. And just to give some context for Cleveland, Tennessee, in 2020, they voted 77% for Trump. And at the time of the election, our small town, which I think had what, 44,000 population. It's, it's a smaller city. We had two Trump stores. Two Trump stores. I mean, everywhere you, you drove Trump flags. You know, there were the, the flags of him where he looked like Rambo with the muscles, too, holding an AR15.
- [28:36]
Beecher
We had a Biden sign in our yard, and I got vandalized six different times. We had to put up a sign that said, every time he vandalized us, we're donating 25 to the Biden campaign.
- [28:45]
April
I know.
- [28:45]
Beecher
And that actually stopped it. But before then, it just kept getting.
- [28:47]
April
We did have to donate a couple of times. We didn't stop it, but we did donate. And then, and then I, I, I did like the little Christian. Like when you would, when they would be fundraising in church, you had a little thermometer and you'd like, fill it in. I would update the sign to have been like, all right, $25. Who's next? So I think we got up to like 50 that we only had to do it twice. But anyway, that's Cleveland, Tennessee. So that's where this story happened. So there is a, A, a senior at this private Christian school in Cleveland named Morgan Armstrong and she came out as gay on social media. And then when she came out, she privately sent some private Snapchats to some friends, which I'm gonna, I'm gonna play a new story for you in a second. But she basically said, you know, go like and comment on my post because if one of my socials knew I was gay then I sure then they sure as hell do now. So this is a big thing. Also, I'm kind of scared about the Facebook comments because I have some Ruthless trump supporting Jesus MF's on there. And somehow the school got a copy of these private messages and took her saying ruthless Trump supporting Jesus MF's as her disparaging the school. Way to tell on yourself for one. And these were private. She didn't post this publicly, but they took that as a reason of her, you know, posting on social media even though it was private. And they suspended her and did not let her walk her graduation and withheld. They're still withholding her diploma. So anyway, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna play this news story. So it was the social media post that I posted with my girlfriend. Not long after posting that she was gay, the senior at Tennessee Christian Preparatory School was called into the office along with her father. It was nerve wracking to post it because I knew everyone was going to have different opinions. Some would love it, someone hate it.
- [30:51]
Beecher
The family says the school provided this.
- [30:53]
Donald Trump
Letter referring to a private message Armstrong sent to friends.
- [30:58]
Beecher
Go like and comment on my post.
- [31:00]
April
I have some Ruthless trump supporting Jesus MF's on there. The school wrote.
- [31:06]
Donald Trump
Morgan posted on social media platforms such as Instagram a disparaging, remarkable.
- [31:13]
April
Reflecting the people at Tennessee Christian. The school suspended her, banning her from.
- [31:18]
Donald Trump
Campus and graduation, holding her diploma until next month, and writing if the slander continues, records of posts and messages will.
- [31:27]
April
Be forwarded to colleges and universities. Follow your own disciplinary policy, which the school did not do here. The district's policy on students using social media urges caution, saying their posts reflect the school community.
- [31:40]
Donald Trump
Writing students can't write disparaging or harassing.
- [31:44]
April
Remarks about the school's community members and there are tiers of punishment. According to the lawsuit, a first time.
- [31:51]
Donald Trump
Social media violation should result in just.
- [31:54]
April
One day of in school suspension. Okay, before I get into that, I want to thank Mia in the chat for the, for the super Chat. She said y' all used to be conservative fundies too. Do you have anything I could say to maybe encourage my conservative, non denominational dad that he's not going to be damned to use my chosen name? I would say Saul changed his name to Paul and we call him the Apostle Paul.
- [32:18]
Beecher
Yeah, I mean the Pope is changing. The Pope changes every time he comes and becomes the Pope. We don't say, oh, I don't call.
- [32:24]
April
The Pope the Pope. JD Vance. I don't think his birth name is jd. Pretty sure. I don't know. I would just show examples of all the people in the world that use nicknames and go by different names.
- [32:36]
Beecher
We also had a friend who transitioned and came out and her father in law was refusing to use her new name. And then once she actually got it changed on her license, she was like, here, like, clearly I've actually got it changed. Like it's my actual name now. And he was like, oh, okay, all right, now I'll use your real name. So I'm not saying you need to necessarily go through all that, especially in the climate we're in, because who knows, the government may try to stop you, but maybe that might help too. At least it helped in that instance.
- [33:05]
April
Yeah. So. So back to this weird old story. So the school did come back out and is being pretty aggressive and is saying that what is being stated in the lawsuit because she's suing the school for withholding her diploma and suspending her over this. And to be fair, if all it is is those private text messages and the fact that she came out as gay, that's terrible. Like that. Like there's that phrase, there's no hate like Christian love. And that I feel like is very applicable to this situation. But the school has come out and said that the claims are misleading. I don't. They did not explain how they are misleading, but they're trying to act like they, they are planning to give her her diploma. But not until, I think, July. Here's, here's the. Here's the statement from Tennessee Christian Prep School. We firmly reject, firmly rejects the misleading allegations outlined in a recent lawsuit supposedly filed against the school. As of 11am on May 22, we have yet to be served with process for the alleged lawsuit. The administration and board of trustees expressed deep disappointment over the inaccuracies contained in the alleged filing by the law firm. Despite this supposed legal dispute, Tennessee Christian remains fully committed to delivering Morgan Armstrong's diploma. Our goal continues to be the academic and personal success of each student, even in the face of conflict or disagreement. We wish Morgan Armstrong the very best as she continues her academics in college. I will say I don't think there is more to this story, because I feel like if there was, they would have set the record straight. And this story's still going. It's getting bigger. It was just posted in Washington Post today, so it's still gaining traction. So I don't know. But this is like the problem with Christians and LGBTQ issues because, like, Christian nationalism in general relies on this patriarchal belief, right? You believe it's a. It's male and female. It's marriage between one man and one woman, because that's what they believe their theology is. And so when you have gay people or queer people or trans people, where do they fit in a patriarchal system who is the head of a household in a lesbian relationship? Or if somebody is trans, it just confuses them because it's a very black and white ideology, and they don't want, you know, decapitated heads of households walking around. And it's. It's. It's a confusing thing. And so they. I, I do think a lot of it is projection because it's easy. It's a marginalized group that, in their minds, they think is distant and far away, even though a lot of them are their own children who may or may not ever come out and. Or it's their own inner. I don't know, doesn't matter. But it's easy because it's stuff they don't struggle with, and they can just be pious about it. And it's stuff that doesn't really affect them at the end of the day. And they use people as just this punching bag because it riles people up when you can convince them. And it's also the demonizing of all queer people, too, right? They. They say queer people are all abusers and they're all satanic and they're all demon possessed, and there's something mentally wrong with them. And it's this big demon demonization to keep them from seeing their humanity.
- [36:37]
Beecher
And I think it's interesting if you actually read about this in your book a little bit. But a lot of private Christian schools, it really, if you look at, like, evangelical private Christian schools, not Catholic schools, those are around for a really long time. Evangelical private Christian schools exploded after basically the south had to end desegregation or segregation in school. Right? They had to desegregate. And you see all these Christian private schools popping up all over the place. Now. Why is this. Oh, Is it? Because suddenly everyone's like, I really want my kid to have a Christian education? I mean, I'm not saying no, but I'm saying I think if anyone reads the stats and reads articles and actually looks into it, it really came about as a way to ensure that white families can continue to send white kids to white schools. And it was their workaround. So the way Salt Lake City's done the workaround with the pride flag, private Christian schools were the workaround with that. And then you see another explosion in kind of the 70s and 80s once again. And that's because, you know, you have. You write about this in your book, but, like, Bob Jones University had a lawsuit against the federal government because the federal government was withholding money, federal money from Bob Jones because they banned interracial relationships. And that actually, if you look at the history of the far right and Jerry Falwell, it wasn't abortion. It was actually school rights, and specifically school rights to be racist. That was the thing that riled everyone up and created this religious right movement that Jerry Falwell led. Abortion was found later because it sold better, and it was a better pitch when abortion came out. That wasn't even something they cared about. And so you get this idea with private Christian schools that really what the idea is, is that they are here so that your kids don't have to go to school with other kids that you don't like, which I think used to be, or in many cases still is people of color. But now I think when you say private. If I said, I'm gonna send my kid to a private Christian school, I think what most people hear is, that's gonna be a school that doesn't have queer kids. That's gonna be a school that doesn't have LGBTQ kids.
- [38:51]
April
Yeah.
- [38:52]
Beecher
And so it's not a woke school. Yeah. And so I actually think, like, if you said, like, okay, like, you know, which of these 10 kids would you expel from your private Christian school? And you had a number of different types of. Types of students on there, and one of them were lgbtq. I think that kid would be the first one to be expelled. Because the identity of private Christian schools right now in this world, it used to be people of color. Now, I think the number one identity is we don't allow LGBTQ people in. And a lot of the families that are sending their kids there are doing it because they don't want woke culture getting them. But that's specifically. I don't want them around LGBTQ people because you become more woke when you meet people of different backgrounds, of different orientations, of different identities. And so in order to keep kids from becoming woke, you have to exclude people. And so that's why they're like, oh, great, this girl came out is gay. We better get her out of here as soon as possible. I also think Christian schools think of LGBTQ kind of like a virus, and they have this belief that it's going to spread. If, oh, that one girl in class comes out as gay, then it'll probably, like, spread over to all these other people. And it's like, that's not how it works. And if it works like that, then show me the studies of where it works, because that's just. That's not the way it functions.
- [40:04]
April
They're out here thinking that you can catch queerness, like cooties, like, if someone mentions gay. I remember when I was growing up, up, I was in Sunday school, and another kid, I was probably 5 or 6, 7 maybe another kid in my Sunday school was like, asked me, it was to my friend Nikki at the time, and he was like, do you like Nikki? And I said, yeah. He goes, oh, so you're gay? And I didn't know what that meant. And I was like, I. I don't know. Sure. And so then. Then I said, what does that mean? And then he said, well, that means girls who like girls instead of boys. I was like, oh. So then I thought I'd play a fun trick on my brothers when I got home. And I said, andrew, my brother Andrew is in the chat, by the way. And I think I said it was either to Andrew or Matt. I probably did it to both of them, but I was like, hey, do you like Johnny? And they're like, yeah. I was like, oh, so you're gay? So I did it back to him. But my dad overheard it and was like, april, don't ever joke about that. And I remember being so confused as to why he had such a strong reaction, but he was like, that is a very bad thing. You don't ever joke about your brothers being that way. Which is ironic because one of them was gay.
- [41:19]
Beecher
Also. It's just funny that he wasn't like, incest. That's the reason we don't joke about it. He's like, no, gay.
- [41:24]
April
Well, I was talking about their friend.
- [41:25]
Beecher
Oh, that makes more sense.
- [41:26]
April
Yeah, but that's. That.
- [41:28]
Beecher
That's way worse. I just took it way darker. There you go.
- [41:30]
April
You did.
- [41:31]
Beecher
I was reading the chats and got a little sidetracked.
- [41:33]
April
Well, and I Think it's, it's here. And here's the thing. I've seen some, there's been some discussion online. A lot of Christians from Cleveland are in the chat or like in the comment sections defending the school, saying, like, well, you knew the rules when you signed up and you need to, you know, she broke the rules when she became gay. And like, like, she decided to become gay. Like, she could have, she was gay whether she came out it or not, you know, like, but anyway, and I think that the whole idea is the hypocrisy of it, right? It's the same thing with like the Ten Commandments, they're, they're passing, they just passed in Texas that you have to post the Ten Commandments. And James Talarico in an exchange, if I would have thought about it, we could have played it, but was saying, like, they're, they're literally voting, they were debating and voting on the bill on Saturday and Sunday, which are both the Jewish and Christian Sabbaths. And one of the Ten Commandments is thou shall rest on the Sabbath, like, keep the Sabbath day holy. And they're working on the Sabbath, breaking the, breaking that 10 commandment, like literally breaking the commandments in order to post the Ten Commandments. And so I think that's the most frustrating thing is that, yes, you sign, you can sign, you know that you follow the rules and all this stuff, but the people there are constantly breaking the rules. Thou shall not have other idols. I, I bet for a fact a lot of those ruthless Trump supporting Jesus MF's that she referenced probably have a Trump flag in their property or on their Facebook or, you know, Jesus Christ is my savior, Donald Trump is my president. Like, they've literally made an idol out of Donald Trump. And Donald Trump's committed adultery. And how many people do we know in church that have committed adultery, that have or that have been divorced, something that Jesus actually said. And they, they say all these things where it's like, oh, well, God clearly hates gay people. They're abomination and God's against queers. And they, the way they talk about the Bible makes you think that the Bible explicitly says thou shall not transition, when it literally says nothing about trans people, nothing. There's one verse in Deuteronomy, but it's about, it's about, you know, men wearing women's clothes, but it's literally in wartime where you're supposed to wear armor. Like, the way that they don't take context into anything. And like, that's the biggest thing is it's not about. I mean, it is about the gay, because they're. They're exploring intentionally targeting queer people. Because it's easy. Because if they actually practice what they preached, I mean, who would actually be going to the. To these schools? They're all hypocrites.
- [44:11]
Beecher
I know. I think it's wild that they're taking Pride flags out of classrooms at the same time they're putting Ten Commandments in. I really do feel like the right has felt like they are losing the culture war, because here's the thing. That girl that came out at TCPS probably wasn't around a lot of queer people, wasn't around a lot of LGBTQ people, yet she still came out. And a big reason for that is the Internet. The ability that you can listen to us right now because you choose to listen to us. The ability that I. Five years ago, when I was really struggling with gender dysphoria, I could get online and see creators like Geoffrey Marsh and Alok V Menon. And I was able to see a path forward, even though at the time we were living in Cleveland, Tennessee, which we've already said is very conservative, and I was working at a conservative Christian university, and I was not around any LGBTQ people for the most part. And I still found a path because I saw light at the end of the tunnel through online. That's the thing. You can put up 10 commandments, you can ban Pride flags. Kids are not coming out as queer because Pride flags are in their classroom. Kids are not going to be swayed from coming out if they see, you know, ten Commandments up in their classroom. And so I think it's just really interesting that all this is going on, but I do think they're still losing the culture war in a lot of ways, because it's ridiculous that this is a culture war. I just want to say that it's so stupid and it's frustrating. And just to give you all a little bit of background of, like, why we left Cleveland, I was at the private Christian university I was teaching at, and I realized during the pandemic that I'm non binary. And I'm much happier and at peace with myself when I don't try to fit in either of these boxes of female or male or man or woman. And I found peace and happiness to a struggle that I had, no joke, had been struggling with for 20 years, like, really deeply struggling. 10 years of therapy, I mean, a number of just other things.
- [46:10]
April
And as their spouse, I can attest to that struggle.
- [46:13]
Beecher
And we actually, we released a podcast a couple years ago called the Non binary marriage. It's 13 parts. It tells our story. We're not going to necessarily rehash all of that, but if you want to listen, it's out there. But I realized, like, oh, my gosh. And I was very naive. I was like, I found peace, like, I found happiness. Like, I feel right in the eyes of God. And I can't wait. I can't wait to tell the school that I'm working at, that I've been at for 10 years, because they know me, they trust me, they like me. I just gotten a really good third year review. And so I was like, I'm going to tell them and they're going to be like, wow, that's great to know. And I was very naive. And so I remember going to the administration and being like, yeah, so this is something I've struggled with for 20 years. I went through the whole kind of story and how much I'd struggled and then said, like, I've done a lot of work and I feel at peace with this and I feel right with God. I feel close to Jesus. And also I feel like I'm non binary. And here's my theology behind it. And I remember the administration just being like, dumbfounded. They're like, they didn't have any theological pushback. They weren't able to tell me why this was wrong. And they were able to clearly see that I was happy and at peace, yet they had no answer for it. And so what their answer was. Similarly to the girl that, that got kicked out or the next story, we're going to look at the thing I was told in that meeting. Was Beecher your PR nightmare? Because, paraphrasing, if anyone, I don't think, I think, I'm not even sure that was. That might have actually been said, but you're a PR nightmare, and if anyone finds out, we're all in big trouble. And at the time, I was only out to roughly 40 or 50 of my closest friends and family. And so I was like, I don't want to be outed in this church that's associated with the school coming after me. Like, I wasn't in a place where I was ready for that. And I was really scared. And the school's like, great, we'll give you an extra six months of pay if you leave quietly, like next month. Don't tell anybody and come out once you've left here. And I was like, it was tough because I was really scared. I didn't. I needed to pay My bills. And so I took the. I took that and I left that university and quietly and, you know, got six months of pay and moved on to other places. And it was difficult and hard and confusing, but that's kind of the MO. That's what private universities are taught to do. They realize they're going to run across LGBTQ people that could be professors, teachers, staff members, students. And what they have to do is just quietly and quickly get rid of them. And that's the way they orchestrated it. And funny enough, too, you think like, oh, well, this is a new phenomenon. This didn't go on. Actually, it wasn't. There was. I actually worked in the media department of this university, and there was an old promotional video, one of the oldest ones we had from the 60s, and it was this film that they paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for in today's money to make. And then we would watch it, and it's really corny and cheesy, but had actors and hundreds of extras, and it was really wild that they made it. And I remember saying, like, when was this released? What do people say? And they're like, oh, it was never release. I was like, why? And they're like, see that science Professor? It's a 30 minute long film. See that science professor that's in it for about 30 seconds. And I was like, yeah, like, well, while they were. Before. Once they got it done, before they released it, he came out as gay. And so they couldn't release the whole film. And so we think like, oh, well, these Christian schools have only been doing this recently, right? This culture war. No, they've always been doing it. It's just now we have the courage, like this student, the courage to speak out and the ability to speak out with social media and with how fast news travels. Whereas that professor back in the 60s probably didn't have recourse to do that. I mean, he couldn't have gone to the local paper. They wouldn't have cared. And so, I don't know, it just. It's wild to think that it's been going on for that long. But it also gives me hope that we're finding out about it and talking about this openly. And hopefully schools like this, who this school's being sued, will start to pay some consequences.
- [50:19]
April
Well, yeah, the same university has since taken a pretty hard. Right. I don't know if they're trying to level out some now, but at one point after we had left, they were making it so that not only could you not be queer as a student, Or a professor or faculty or staff or whatever. You couldn't even be queer affirming. Like if they got wind like they were, they had like this blacklist of people that were affirming. So which made everyone that worked there just terrified. Like the more progressive people who were affirming, queer affirming. And they're like, there are people getting in trouble for that because they didn't condemn it enough. If someone, if, if a kid came out privately to someone in their office and they were not immediately told, sorry, that's a sin, they would get, they would get called in and get in trouble. And, and that's something that I think unless you're in like these Christian environments, you don't realize the amount of social pressure that you have to stay in line and to basically conform, to squash your instincts and to squash who you really are and to squash what you might actually think. Especially like for you, your livelihood was on the line. It took us a while to figure out what our next step was. I remember you were doing a lot of what, freelance editing, that you would just hole up for hours. It was not really making enough for what we needed, but it was like we were barely breaking even, even. And I mean, it's hard, it's hard to come out and be your authentic self at any point just because especially now with Trump and all these laws and these executive orders. Like, it's really, really scary. And this is not an encouraging people to come out if it is not safe at all. But for us at least there was this free. Like, even though we kind of took some steps back in our finances and in our careers, there was a. There was this like freedom that we could not explain before. Like, I feel like in the church we are always taught like, you'll have freedom in Christ if you come to this church and you get plugged in and as long as you, you know, follow Jesus and you pray and you do all these things, that's where true freedom comes from. It only comes from Christ. And we found that the freedom in Christ came from leaving that dogma and actually being ourselves, being who God made us to be. And Beecher coming out helped me come out too. Like, I realized I'm bi and it was such a non issue for me. It's like, that makes sense. Yeah, I've always been attracted to women and men. It's cool. And it was just a non issue where like for I could never even. My brain could never even accept the thought that I was anything other than straight. I just convinced myself all straight women are also attracted to their girlfriend sometime, which is why it was easy for me to believe that you could. That being gay was a choice. You know, it was a choice for me, but there's just so much religious trauma that comes when you are a queer person that grows up in that environment.
- [53:15]
Beecher
Yeah. And I think looking back at the six years that I taught teaching at that private university, they had anti LGBTQ policies, kind of. They weren't as loud about it, but they were there. And I still think. I still feel some guilt about the time and energy that I put into a place that excluded people. Now, obviously, I was in a different mindset, but there was a few years, even once we became affirming that we stayed in that environment. And I left because my mental health, I couldn't stay. So some people are like, mitri, you were so brave to leave. I'm like, y' all don't understand. Like, I was at rock bottom. I had to leave. And then since then. Right. So that year that I. That I was asked to leave, I told, you know, several of my friends who were colleagues there, and the school passed really kind of overt laws, as April said, bylaws about, you can't go to churches that are affirming, you can't even moonlight at churches that are affirming, and you can't encourage queer kids. And there was a professor that I taught with. He was in the theater department, and he quit. And he said, I've been here. I have tenure. I've been here what, 15, 20 years? And he could have stayed there the rest of his life. And he was like, I'm leaving because you're keeping me from loving people well. And I look at that colleague's journey. And when he left, he tried to run a theater for a bit that didn't really work. He renovated couches, which worked well. Okay. But it's not paying as much. And he went through a really tough couple years where he tried to find his next job because he sacrificed that stability. But now he's just recently gotten a really great job, pays really well, he's moving to a new city, and he's really grateful for the decision he made. I think that's the thing. I think once I was let go, I was really surprised at how many people stayed, because, well, you know, I'm affirming and I support you, but, you know, I get my bills paid, and I'm comfortable. My kids are in school here, and I don't know. And I think, like, if I wasn't non binary and struggling with gender dysphoria. Like, would I have had the courage to leave? And I think that's something that we all have to wrestle with and struggle with, because I think I was really, like I said, just surprised at how many of my colleagues at the school, and we were going to a church at the time that pretty much told us we couldn't come back also. And we had friends at the church and we told them the story, and they're like, oh, I'm sorry, that really sucks. And they're like, well, are you all going to still keep going there? And they're like, yeah, why would we. Why would we not go there? I don't understand. I'm like, what do you mean, why would you not go there?
- [55:40]
April
Like, they kicked us out and you're just fine with that? And they were like, I mean, and.
- [55:47]
Beecher
I bring everything back to movies, but I'm not going to ruin the exact moment. But there is something that happens in Wicked, if you've seen Wicked, where someone gets sent away because of their identity and everyone just kind of goes, oh, that's really bad. Okay, well, let's keep going. And I'm like, that's just. I don't know. Like, that's really disheartening to see. But that's also a human phenomenon. And even if you watch a movie like Zone of Interest, it takes it to the extreme. But, yeah. So I think the world, honestly, my opinion is the world is going to be changed when there's more of those colleagues that I was with that leave, because he knows, as a Christian, he's being limited by loving. Well, I think it's obviously great when LGBTQ people come out and live in their own freedom, but I think it's going to change when others outside of that people group take the risk and lose the stability in the sake of Christ and the sake of loving people.
- [56:50]
April
Well, and that's why allies are important.
- [56:52]
Beecher
So important.
- [56:53]
April
Yeah.
- [56:53]
Beecher
And it means the world to me that he did that. Like, absolutely the world. And he didn't do it just for me. He really was, I think, more the.
- [56:58]
April
Love of the cause, a lot of queer students.
- [57:00]
Beecher
Because he just said, I can't do this. And it's.
- [57:03]
April
Yeah, it's just. Yeah, it's just the integrity of it, you know, which I think is a big frustration I have with a lot of Republicans right now, because you can see in some of their eyes, they know this is not okay, but they're just going along with it anyway. So the next story it's another upper. So a Georgia high school is a Christian school. A Georgia high school senior allegedly was forced to withdraw from her Christian school because she brought a transgender prom date to the school's promotion. And this was just weeks before the graduation. So I'm going to play this little news clip and they'll explain the story and then we'll talk about it.
- [57:48]
Beecher
School senior is upset that their daughter was forced to withdraw from school. They say it's all because of who she took to prom.
- [57:55]
April
Fox 5's Denise Dillon is live in Cobb county for us tonight.
- [57:58]
Beecher
Denise, all of this happened just weeks before graduation.
- [58:04]
April
That's right. Emily Wright was planning to graduate from North Cobb Christian School. She enrolled here in as a junior. But she says after prom night she was told she's not welcome here. I introduce him to my friends. My friends say hi, nice to meet you.
- [58:21]
Donald Trump
Prom night is a big deal for high school seniors.
- [58:23]
April
Emily Wright, who attended North Cobb Christian School, says their prom was at a venue off campus. It was off property. I did sign a form allowing her to bring a guest. The only limitation on the form is in relation to the age of the guest. Ten days later, Emily is called to the principal's office. I'm asked, is there anything we wouldn't approve of the guest you brought to prom? And I knew exactly what they were talking about. And I said, yes, he's transgender. The call, the principal said, Ms. Wright, you know, I've been informed, or I found out that Emily brought transgender to prom. And since she said, well, I'm sorry, Ms. Wright, we're going to have to expel Emily. Emily's mom, Tricia, was stunned. Emily was worried. I cried very hard. I was thinking that my entire future was jeopardized. Where am I going to go to school? Where am I going to graduate? With just weeks left in the school year, Emily enrolled in a public school so she could graduate and be able to go to college. The Wrights understand that this is a private Christian school with values and rules that may be different from public schools. But they say they believed because it is a Christian school, it would be more welcoming to everyone. That's not, in my opinion, a good example to not be kind, not be loving, not be accepting, to be exclusive instead of inclusive. Okay. Oh, hold on.
- [59:52]
Beecher
Still going.
- [59:52]
April
I have called and emailed school officials, but have not yet received a response regarding why Emily was told to withdraw. Reporting live in Cobb county, Denise Dillon, Fox 5 News. Yeah, it seemingly just doesn't make a lot of sense. Denise, thanks.
- [60:10]
Beecher
Let's turn now to our weather.
- [60:11]
April
Oh, weather. I just want to say that is the most damning thing. Okay, I made. I go on a Super bowl rant that I posted online where basically I, you know, there's pastors, long story, pastors every year say, why can't we get as excited for church as we do for the Super Bowl? And so I made a video where I was just like, well, maybe if. If to be fair, if the super bowl happened on Sundays and Wednesdays, and I was told I couldn't bring my gay friends or my queer friends to the super bowl, and I had to give my 10 of my income to the super bowl. And it was, you know, it was mediocre worship by McKinley Grace. Anyway, I went on this rant, but the amount of comments, hundreds, maybe thousands of comments of Christians that popped in to be like, what do you mean you can't bring your gay friends? You can bring your queer friends. All are welcome to church. That pisses me off, because that's just not true. Because when they mean all are welcome, they mean you can come and sit in the seat, but you can't be a member unless you change. Because it's not about community. It's about conformity. And they will welcome queer people to come in and give them money and to attend services, but they expect them to not be queer anymore to continue going there. And this. These two stories of these schools and this girl, she wasn't even queer herself or that we know of. I don't know if she's come out, but she just brought a transgender date to a prom that wasn't even at the school's campus. Like, churches are not welcoming of all. That's just a lie. And. And I hate, like, that they thought we thought they'd be welcomin because they're Christians. Ugh. They fake being welcoming, but they're not. It's so frustrating. But anyway, to get to the golden nugget of this story, Beecher, how are we related to this?
- [61:59]
Beecher
So obviously, with the last story, we lived in Cleveland for seven years. We know where TCPS is. I got that news article a couple days before I got this one, and I was like, wow, what are the chances of us living in Cleveland where this happened? And then I get this one, and I'm reading it going, oh, my gosh, this is so disheartening, y' all. I went to this school. I was a student at this school from 2000 to 2005. Now, I didn't graduate from there. I went from sixth to ninth grade. But, like, I still have friends that went to. That I met from this school. I have friends whose kids go to this school. And so I'm very closely connected. And I was just. My mind is just blown. And honestly, this story upset me for several days. Like, it. For several. I mean, it still upsets me, but, like, I was, like, feeling a heaviness walking around for several days after this. Because as you all are saying in the chat, and as anyone that's listening to this is thinking, once again, even if you think being transgender is a sin, even if you believe that, why would you exclude that person from being around Christians? Can you imagine a world where Jesus gets in front, like, all right, y' all, I'm gonna feed the 5,000. But hold up, hold up. Who did you bring with you? Because I see you in the back corner. That person looks trans. Y' all need to get out of here. Like, obviously, transgender. Being transgender is not a sin, and I vehemently believe that. But even if you believe that, like, it's still a bad. You're being a bad Christian. You're being a bad. Once again, I just. It's. It's so disheartening. And if you notice, all the. All the news articles say allegedly, or our kid says, our mom says. And part of that is because there's no lawsuit that's being filed yet. I hope there is going to be one. And the school has not responded anywhere to anyone. I've sent them multiple emails. I signed a letter with alumni and former students of the school that over a hundred of us signed and we sent to the school and the headmaster and the board. We've not gotten a single response, and we're not getting. We're not getting anything. The only response I got was an auto reply from the headmaster saying, after x many years of working here at nccs, I finally got on a sabbatical and I'll be back July 9th. And I'm like, what a time to go on a sabbatical. But whatever.
- [64:25]
April
Literally have said nothing.
- [64:27]
Beecher
Nothing. And so the only thing we have to go on is what the girl and the mom says, because the school knowingly is just letting that story ride. So. So I'm gonna assume it's true. At least I will say with the TCPS story, at least the school released a statement saying, like, the allegations are false. We love everybody, and she's gonna get her diploma. In this case, the school is saying nothing. And once again, it's just so interesting. I reached out to a friend of mine who's still got kids at this school. And I was like, whoa, did you hear about this? And, you know, it's just hard because his response. I felt like it was very disheartening to me because it was kind of like a. Oh, I don't really know. But I'm sure there's more to the story. I'm sure they don't just hate trans people. And I'm like, well, you're a parent who has kids at the school. Like, are you gonna find out? And then he just gets really defensive and is like, look at all these other stories where people were wrongly mad about something that wasn't true.
- [65:22]
April
Completely unrelated to.
- [65:23]
Beecher
Completely unrelated. And she's like, well, I'm sure the school just wants to, you know, take the high road and not release anything that degrades her or puts her down. And I'm like, they could release a state. It just. It's. It's really, really difficult when people who are Christians are okay with openly invalid, you know, discrimination and exclusion that goes against Christ and against Jesus. And they take the attitude of, I'm sure there's something more going on here. Like, okay, yeah, I'm sure there's something more. When it's like, you're literally a parent with kids here. Find out if there's nothing else more going on here. Are you okay sending your kids to this school? And the answer honestly is yes. And that's the thing that I think is just really hard. And I try to keep friendships with people, and some of these people really mean a lot to me, but it's just really hard because they just don't get it and they don't understand. And I was saying more kids are going to come out as queer because of the Internet, because of their connection to queer people. But I will say, when a school expels somebody for coming out as gay on social media or expels somebody for bringing a trans date, I think she.
- [66:34]
April
Was forced to withdraw is the official term they're using.
- [66:37]
Beecher
Because after. From my understanding, that was after negotiations, though, they were originally going to expel her. And then she negotiated and said, well, let's at least just have me withdraw so I can still transfer to a different school. And they said, okay, but. But the point is, when you do that, you send a chilling effect to closeted LGBTQ students. And, you know, North Cop Christian can think all they want. Like, all this transgenderism thing's a new thing, and we've got to keep everybody out. Here's. Hey, guess What? I was trans. I was non binary back then. Like, I was just really, really struggling and crying myself to sleep at night. And you, as a school, were providing no resources and no answers. You expelled, Even back in 2000, all of these LGBTQ people, yet I was still experiencing gender dysphoria. You said that Jesus could take away my shame and my sin and my confusion, yet all you ever did was offer an empty prayer at the front. Because you never gave me the resources and never gave me a path towards being healthy and happy spiritually, mentally, and emotionally. And it's really frustrating to see that they haven't learned and that it's continuing to go because we've always existed. We're going to keep existing, and they can't get rid of us like, we're here. But I do think it can have a chilling effect and keep students in the closet for longer, which, of course, can lead to suicide and lead to a really, really awful mental health effects.
- [68:04]
April
It just shows, too, how many people will choose comfort like their own comfort over doing the right thing or sticking up for marginalized people, despite Jesus being like, love thy neighbor, love thy enemy. They just ignore that. I also just want to point out, too, how theologic. If I don't know if y' all can hear that doorbell going on in.
- [68:25]
Beecher
The background, they can. I see a comment. We have someone at our door because we live in a neighborhood with a bunch of kids, and they're asking if.
- [68:30]
April
Our kids can play and our kids are at their grandma's house. But how do you be like, we're on Alive children.
- [68:35]
Beecher
We'll invite them on, ask them their opinions.
- [68:40]
April
I did want to point out just how theologically inept a lot of the people that are a part of this culture war are. They are. They are Christians, but they really don't know the Bible. And I'm going to prove that by reading this one comment on this story. Okay, so this is a Facebook post on the story about the North Cob Christian. I always want to call it Corn Cob Christian.
- [69:07]
Beecher
She always wants it. She's literally called it. She's like, oh, you went to Corn Cob Christian.
- [69:10]
April
Don't mean to.
- [69:11]
Beecher
No Green Bean Christian.
- [69:12]
April
It just comes out Corn Cob Christian. So North Cob Christian. So here's the. The news article. So these are comments under us under this. So look at this one comment by a guy named Jason. While being transgender is against God. Last time I checked, the Bible did say that was one of the worst sins. Hey, I don't consider myself A Christian. But I do believe in God and I do believe changing your sex is wrong. At least he admit he does not call himself a Christian. But last time I checked, the Bible did say that's one of the worst sins. It literally does not. It does not say anything about transgender. If you go to little concordance in the back and you search trans. Not there. The only the scripture that people use to damn trans people is the creation story where it says God created them, male and female, and to them they're like, well, it only mentions male and female, so those are the only two that exists. But in that same passage, it says God created night and day does not mention sunrises or sunsets. So I guess those don't exist either. If we're going by this binary thing, it also says that God created land and sea, and yet swamps and marshlands exist. Are those land or are those sea? Or do they just not exist? And we can just ignore what's before our very eyes?
- [70:34]
Beecher
And you could even say, like, okay, well, fine, that fits non binary people and people that are kind of in the middle and like, like gender fluid. Like, but it doesn't support, like, people like, transitioning from one to the other. No, there are definitely parts of the world that used to be water and that are now land. And there's definitely parts of the world that. I mean, it's. The entire Jewish tradition sees this not as a binary, but as a beginning and as an end and with everything in the middle implied. And there's a word for it, I.
- [71:02]
April
Can'T remember it, but I will say mirism. It's a Jewish term. There you go.
- [71:07]
Beecher
Good job. I will say that it's funny, I think, you know, when I've talked to people about presenting gender non conforming and, you know, being non binary and open about it, a lot of people are like, wow, was it really hard to deconstruct your theology to accept yourself? And I was like, no. It was actually so easy. Like, as soon as I did, looking into it at all, it was like, oh, well, why?
- [71:30]
April
What?
- [71:31]
Beecher
Okay, yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Okay, yeah. And so that was actually the easiest. The hardest was the feeling that I was going to be excluded or sent away because growing up, there were two people in my life that came out as gay. And guess what? The second they came out as gay, I never saw them again. My parents didn't allow them around me. And so in my head I'm thinking, oh, well, if I'm lgbtq, I will never see my friends and family and Loved ones. Again, it actually wasn't the theology, because the theology is paper thin on gender identity issues. I mean, paper thin. In fact, I think supports, you know, of course, I think supports non binary and trans people. It was just the isolation and being sent away. And so I'm. It hurts that all these schools are sending people away because that of course takes me back to what I experienced. But the positive is, is that even if they're sent away, they're going to see so many more people online and out in this world. And Pride Month is right around the corner. You're going to see more people out and proud and being themselves. And it's spreading like there's more Pride Month, Pride celebrations this month than ever before. And it's gonna keep exploring.
- [72:35]
April
I didn't realize that. That's awesome. And honestly, that does give me hope. And the fact that these two stories are gaining national attention like they are, also gives me hope because even though we are living under a very authoritarian regime, a very anti queer regime, a very patriarchal regime, stories like this are still being called messed up up. Like society in general is saying that's not okay. And I've even seen a lot of Christians who are probably not queer affirming even say that's not okay. So I, I do think the more people that can be themselves and be out and, and to just show queer joy is, is a form of resistance and, and is, and is the thing that can give us hope. Like, you can make all these laws and you can make all these rules, but at the end of the day, I'm going to be who I am. And I think there's something really powerful in that.
- [73:26]
Beecher
And I think there's something powerful too about the fact that like, you're still sitting with me. Because, like, I think once again, the lie is I'm going to come out and get sent away from everyone I know. I'm going to lose everyone that's around me. And when I came out, yes, it was a long journey for us to get to the place we were okay with it. But like, you're still here, we're still married. And when people see this, it's like, no, actually your relationship, when you come out and you're authentic, it might take some time, but it will end up in a better place because I'm healthier and I'm happier, makes our relationship better, makes our relationship stronger. And the more that the world sees people like us that don't lose everything, I think it's going to hopefully give people more Encouragement. And that's why we released the podcast years ago. And that's why I like to show my face every once in a while on a show like this.
- [74:12]
April
Yeah. So if you want to hear more of our story, it goes into detail.
- [74:16]
Beecher
I know we tried. We tried to re listen to it, and we're like, well, this is tough. Like, we were in a dark headspace.
- [74:22]
April
Yeah. We're like, we need to re listen to it so we can do an update episode. And we got to, like, episode two. And we're like, I don't want to relive that. But yeah, you do have a question in the chat from Michelle. How did your parents handle you coming out?
- [74:37]
Beecher
So that is a great question. So I'll start with the most encouraging part first. I called my parents as soon as I saw that NCCS North Cap Christian story break, and my parents were furious. My dad was like, I hope that school loses every ounce of money and has to close their doors. He was so mad. My mom's like, I am emailing everyone I can and I'm making calls and I'm gonna. They were so mad. So now they're like, fully, fully on. On the same page as me.
- [75:03]
April
Very affirming and supportive.
- [75:04]
Beecher
Very affirming, Very supportive. Like. Like, militantly so.
- [75:08]
April
Same with my mom, who lives next door.
- [75:11]
Beecher
Yes, I will say it would. I would say it took a couple years, A couple years of good moments, bad moments. But ultimately, what happened that I feel, like, moved my parents along, to be accepting of us is really two things. They saw that April and I and our kids were happier, and they were like, well, this can't be that wrong. If, like, it's having good benefits, they're happier, they're healthier. I was clearly shining a lot more. And then the other thing I think is I. After much convincing, I convinced them to start listening to podcasts, reading books of other people's experiences, and talking with people outside of me. Because when it was about me, it was so personal and it was so emotional from their end and my end, because if they were talking about trans people, they were talking about me. And I felt shame. And then if I was talking about growing up and how difficult it was, they felt shame because they felt like they were bad parents. We had to move away from us initially and talk about other people. Oh, did you read this book about so and so's transition? What did you think? Did you listen to this podcast? And I. And I also had to be open to a variety of different sources and takes and so Yes, I heard some pretty bad, awful conservative takes as well. But I think the more they listened to, the more they realized, like, this conservative whole take isn't actually lining up. Intersex people exist. How do. They can't explain that. They can't explain this. And so it was this journey. So I would just say if you have parents who are not affirming, you know, maybe it's tough. Be patient, be safe, set boundaries if you need to, but it just takes time.
- [76:49]
April
Yeah. Yeah. So I will say we're. We're kind of some of the lucky ones. We've had extended family that not. Did not respond so hot.
- [76:59]
Beecher
But also I think a reason for that is because we didn't take the time and energy with that extended family to spend two years having. Like, we were. Like, we just. We can't do that.
- [77:07]
April
Well, an extended family also didn't love. Like, they didn't reach out to us either to have those conversations. Conversations. A lot of them. But regardless, what I was trying to say is we are. We recognize that we are very fortunate that we have supportive parents because a lot of people that come out don't, you know, a lot of. A lot of people.
- [77:26]
Beecher
A lot.
- [77:27]
April
Especially a lot of trans people right now and gay people or any queer people, but they don't have any relationship with their parents because their parents have disowned them because of this dogma and religion. And I feel like any religion that tells you to disown your children for any reason, but especially for them just accepting who they are, is a terrible religion.
- [77:48]
Beecher
That's a cult. I mean, that's. That's what the cults do that to their. To, you know, just the turned up. But that's cult practice. Oh. If someone's doing something you don't like, you can never talk to them again, no matter how much you love them. And Jesus is, of course, lived the exact opposite of that, which I think my parents saw and I saw and we saw. And so. Yeah.
- [78:07]
April
Yeah.
- [78:08]
Beecher
Can we get to something fun now?
- [78:09]
April
Yeah. You know what time it is? It's time for Weird Christian. Okay. So it's time for our Weird Christian beep of the day. We are still doing that, despite Tim not being here, because it's my favorite. This one I actually found. I don't know what's wrong with my Instagram algorithm, but they. I got served this one organically and I sent this to Beecher and I was like, can we do this? And Beecher's like, abso freaking lutely. So this I don't know what church this is. It's a couple. It's a worship set. It's a worship leader. And you can tell when you are listening to it. It's like one of those impromptu, spontaneous worship moments. And if you grew up in any charismatic or Pentecostal church, like, I remember I used to be a worship leader. And they would always be like, we really want that spontaneous stuff. Because that's when you show like, the Holy Spirit is leading. But spontaneous worship can lead to some weird stuff. So without a further ado, let's watch this week's weird Christian beep. You're a dangerous loaf of bread. You're a dangerous loaf of bread.
- [79:32]
Beecher
Say you're a dangerous loaf of bread. Keep rolling, rolling, rolling, rolling.
- [79:40]
April
You know, the enemy, he hates to see us coming.
- [79:45]
Beecher
Cause we're just wild enough to do.
- [79:47]
April
Stuff like dangerous loaf of bread. So I don't. If you couldn't understand what she's saying. Is she saying you're a dangerous or we're a dangerous loaf of bread.
- [80:02]
Beecher
We need her orange. Okay, but she's saying dangerous loaf of bread.
- [80:05]
April
Dangerous loaf of bread. All right, let's. Let's. Let's watch that again. Keep rolling like the dough.
- [80:24]
Beecher
Don't you have the enemy?
- [80:26]
April
But that's not a loaf. He hates to see us coming.
- [80:30]
Beecher
Cause we're just wild enough to do.
- [80:32]
April
Stuff like dangerous loaf of bread. The enemy can't stand to see us coming. Because we're wild enough to do stuff like dangerous loaf of bread. Is Satan gluten free? Has he been gluten free this whole time? All we needed when Satan was attacking was to pull out some wheat bread.
- [80:55]
Beecher
Satan doesn't mess with those people. Like, should we mess with. No, we can't go near them. They're wild enough to pull out a dangerous loaf of bread. We can't. You can't bother them, said the demons. Oh, my gosh. I remember because April was a worship leader at a pretty large church. And I remember she came from a more charismatic background than me. And, like, when we first started going there, it was very kind of open. And you could, like, you could do, like, spontaneous worship songs, right?
- [81:19]
April
Yeah.
- [81:19]
Beecher
But then the pastor was like, hey, no more of that. You got to run everything you say or do or sing, like, with me first. And I remember we were really mad about that. We were like, really?
- [81:30]
April
That was for Sunday morning. The spontaneous worship for. Was for us worship nights.
- [81:34]
Beecher
But I'm. But I'm right. But I'm saying there was some. There Was some spontaneous worship going on or things that were said. I remember you being really mad. I was mad. And I was like, how dare you stop the Holy Spirit from moving? And now I just realized he was trying to avoid a dangerous loaf of bread. Like, I'm like, actually, yeah, maybe you should run everything by.
- [81:52]
April
So someone said the rolling, rolling, rolling part is from a Limp Biscuit song. Maybe it should be Limp biscuit spelled like actual biscuit for a loaf of bread. Was that the connection they're trying to make?
- [82:05]
Beecher
Oh, it's just this funny thing I remember. I remember when we were in.
- [82:09]
April
I was in Yavitz, which also. Thank you for the. For the super chat. I meant to thank you earlier. Yabit said, watch out for the leaven. I saw a comment on this post. The comment section was super funny. I saw a comment that said, I rate this a. Which I thought was funny. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you. Go ahead.
- [82:29]
Beecher
No, you're good. I was just gonna say it's funny in the evangelical world. Kids are back, by the way. Yeah, kids are back in the evangelical world. I remember friends of mine. Cause I kind of got in the kind of charismatic Pentecostal space a little bit in college, and I had some friends that were really. And I went, like, to the ramp in Alabama, if you know about that. And there was this kind of group. And the weirder the songs were, like, the more holy they were. And I remember several of them, like my friends playing songs for me that were just very, very odd. And I remember trying to look up a few of them, and I couldn't find it because they were very fringe. Like, very fringe. And I remember at the time being like, this is really odd and feels like a kid's song and feels like it's weird lyrics, but in that world, you can't really criticize. It's kind of like, oh, well, you know, this whole idea of David dancing naked is like, oh, well, I'll become even more undignified than this. Oh, yeah? Well, watch me. I'm gonna go sing Dangerous Loaf of Bread. And because we're in Christian culture, you can't criticize someone if the song's coming from the Holy Spirit. And it's just really interesting that now. I mean, it's nice now that we can just be like, wow, yeah, that's pretty odd. But at the time, you just had to internalize it. And you'd look around too, and be like, everyone else is acting like this is normal. So I guess Dangerous Loaf of Bread's Normal. I don't know.
- [83:42]
April
I really wish I knew the context for this. Like, where did they go to get to Dangerous Loaf of Bread? Is it from, like, the Bread and the Fishes?
- [83:49]
Beecher
I don't know.
- [83:50]
April
Or the Bread of Life? That's. Is that what they mean by he's a dangerous loaf of bread?
- [83:56]
Beecher
I don't. I don't know. But I will say we. Having been to spontaneous worship nights, I. I feel like she probably just started singing Dangerous Loaf of Bread and she stopped singing it pretty fast. Like, you know, these spontaneous worship nights, sometimes they'll sing the same words for like three or four minutes.
- [84:10]
April
We don't know. They cut it off, too. But then she said, well, that's why Satan hates to see us coming, because we do wild stuff like dangerous loaf of bread. And Satan's down there being like, oh, no, they're bringing out the bread. Maybe it's about Communion tv, but I'm.
- [84:24]
Beecher
Telling you, like, that was in Christian speak. That was her saying, oh, shoot, I'm kind of insecure about this. I don't know if we should have done this. Yeah, that's what I would do is like, you're like, wow, like, you know, like, we're. We're wild enough to sing this. I guess Satan hates it, so if you hate it, you must be with Satan.
- [84:41]
April
It's like, I'm not sure she was that self aware, but I want to. I want to tell you. There was one time I was at a. I went to a worship night that my friend invited me to, and it was a church I'd never been to. Super Pentecostal. It was like there were so many things going on. There was a guy in a choir robe just roaming through the worship set. There was prophetic art at the front, which was really just a girl doing finger paints. And they went on this spontaneous diatribe of one line that was, we want to see your eye. They were talking about God's eye. Not both eyes. Not eyes, plural. One eye. Like God's a Cyclops. And they sang this line for like 45 minutes where they would, like, build it up and break it back down. And even back then, and I was still very Pentecostal back then, I was like, what does this mean? I want to see your eye. Just one eye. What happens when I see this one singular eye? And everyone was acting like it was the most profound thing ever. And I remember just being like this. This is insane.
- [85:49]
Beecher
Did this come out right after, like, Lord of the Rings? Because the giant eye of Sauron would Make total sense for, like, it wasn't right after.
- [85:57]
April
It would have been, like, 2010. It would have been years after. I mean, Lord of the Rings existed in this world.
- [86:03]
Beecher
Sauron's Eye is the only thing I can think of.
- [86:05]
April
And so I remember it was like, we want to see your eye. We want to see your eye. And I was like, I don't know why. I want to see your eye. God. Is it hazel like mine? I don't know. And then there was one time I was actually leading worship, and you were there for this, and it was Easter, and one of my friends was leading worship, and I love him, but he also can get very profound, to the point of not making sense. That makes sense. Like, too deep for his own good sometimes.
- [86:36]
Beecher
Like, he can follow it, but none of us can.
- [86:38]
April
Yeah. And we're like, huh? And he went there on this worship service, and he was talking. It was Easter, so we were singing about the resurrection. And so he started talking. He's talking about in the middle. He's like, God, thank you for the crucifixion. It's like. Like, we're all your little bunnies hopping across the yard. And then he brought. Like, started talking about they just looking for the Easter eggs and started just comparing us to bunnies. And I remember I was, like, up there, kind of, like, closing my eyes, kind of peeking at him like, what on earth are you talking about? I'm not a bunny.
- [87:09]
Beecher
But it was disguised in a prayer, so you couldn't criticize it to anybody out loud. We just had to laugh about it later because we're just like, did you hear that? How it got real weird. Yeah, that was the.
- [87:19]
April
I just want to combine the two. God's eye serving a loaf of bread.
- [87:25]
Beecher
Dangerous loaf.
- [87:26]
April
A dangerous loaf of bread. Two bunnies. There we go. Or maybe God's eye is on the bunnies as they eat the dangerous loaf of bread.
- [87:38]
Beecher
I don't think I'm tracking with you anymore.
- [87:41]
April
I went spontaneous on you.
- [87:43]
Beecher
Yeah.
- [87:43]
April
She said, I'm just combining them all. Like, maybe together they all make sense. Maybe they're all individual puzzle pieces. We're separate. It doesn't make any sense, but when you bring them together, then suddenly it's profound.
- [87:55]
Beecher
Yeah.
- [87:55]
April
I don't know. But, hey, y' all, it's been a wonderful show. Thank you all for being with me and for listening to all the door knocks and doorbell rings. We'll probably need to go apologize to that kid who can clearly hear us. That's why he kept knocking. I wanted to be like, we're on alive, but I didn't want to shout. Yes.
- [88:15]
Beecher
Thank y' all for. Thank you for having me, Tim. Thank you for going on vacation and spending time with your family. That's important. And, yeah, it was great being here. And, yeah, thanks to all of y' all in the chat that said nice things about me, too.
- [88:28]
April
Yeah. And thanks for your patience as I went through all this technology. We'll see if I can finish on time. So go on there, out there. Have a great week. Being a dangerous loaf of bread.
- [88:38]
Beecher
You got this, people. Sourdough.
- [88:40]
April
Yep. Sourdough. Okay. Bye, Sam.