Podcast Summary: The Tim & April Show - Episode 23: The Real Housewives of Christian Nationalism

Host: The New Evangelicals
Release Date: June 9, 2025
Guest: Dr. Beth Allison Barr, James Varden Endowed Professor of History at Baylor University

Introduction

In Episode 23 of The Tim & April Show, hosted by The New Evangelicals, Tim and April delve deep into the intricate web of Christian nationalism, focusing particularly on the role of pastor's wives within this ideology. Dr. Beth Allison Barr joins the conversation to shed light on how traditional gender roles and the concept of the pastor's wife contribute to the perpetuation of Christian nationalist values.

Understanding the Pastor's Wife Role

Dr. Beth Allison Barr provides a comprehensive analysis of the pastor's wife role, tracing its origins and evolution within the evangelical community.

• Historical Context:
  "[...] for 1500 years of church history, there was no pastor's wife role. [...] It is not until the Reformation era [...]" ([15:25]).

• Modern Implications:
  Dr. Barr explains how post-World War II Western culture, especially in the US South, shaped the rigid structure of the pastor's wife role. This role mandates that women support and advance their husbands' careers without formal recognition or remuneration.
  "[...] she is actually doing the work of his job, which is what the pastor's wife is seen to be supposed to do in this, you know, modern evangelical world while being unpaid." ([08:41])

Impact on Women and Gender Roles

The discussion highlights the psychological and societal pressures exerted on women occupying the pastor's wife role.

• Sacrifice and Self-Worth:
  Women are often taught that their primary calling is to support their husbands and families, leading to feelings of inadequacy if they pursue personal or professional aspirations.
  "[...] if you are not thriving in this role, it's because your heart isn't in the right place." ([14:53])

• Normalization of Patriarchy:
  The pastor's wife literature serves as unwitting training manuals for maintaining patriarchal structures, reinforcing the idea that women's sacrifices are both noble and necessary.
  "[...] this literature is training manuals to some extent." ([29:43])

Christian Nationalism and Political Influence

Dr. Barr connects the pastor's wife role to the broader framework of Christian nationalism and its political ramifications.

• Support Systems for Male Leaders:
  Women in these roles support and legitimize male leaders, facilitating the rise of figures like Pete Hegseth within political spheres.
  "[...] this is what Reagan did with the religious right, joining different people to work for a greater political good." ([44:18])

• Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) Resolutions:
  The episode discusses upcoming SBC resolutions aimed at promoting patriarchal values, such as encouraging higher fertility rates and opposing female ordination.
  "[...] Resolution number five [...] encourages policies that support the bearing and raising of children within intact married families." ([59:37])

Cognitive Dissonance and Public Perception

The conversation explores the inherent contradictions within Christian nationalist positions, especially regarding women's roles.

• High-Profile Examples:
  Figures like Paula White exemplify women navigating roles that demand support of male leaders while maintaining demanding careers.
  "[...] they're willing to throw aside doctrines about women's roles to gain political favor." ([48:27])

• Public and Personal Struggles:
  Women often experience cognitive dissonance, balancing societal expectations with personal aspirations, leading to widespread dissatisfaction and trauma.
  "[...] how they funnel this is that what Nancy Wilson is doing, everything is supporting her husband’s job and ministry." ([24:58])

Consequences and Future Outlook

Dr. Barr addresses the long-term effects of these entrenched gender roles and the potential for societal change.

• Declining Participation:
  The SBC and similar institutions are witnessing a decline in female participation as women leave churches that enforce restrictive roles.
  "[...] women are walking away from these church spaces." ([54:55])

• Hope for Change:
  Despite the challenges, there is optimism that younger generations will challenge and dismantle these oppressive structures.
  "[...] I'm guardedly hopeful while still terrified." ([66:09])

Concluding Thoughts

The episode concludes with reflections on the resilience of patriarchal systems and the urgent need for theological and cultural shifts to empower women and promote genuine egalitarianism within Christian communities.

• Call to Action:
  Dr. Barr emphasizes the importance of recognizing and addressing the subtle indoctrination within pastor's wife literature to foster meaningful progress.
  "[...] these books are invaluable for understanding how Christian nationalism has spread." ([29:43])

• Final Optimism:
  While acknowledging the significant hurdles, Dr. Barr remains hopeful that societal awareness and academic discourse will pave the way for a more equitable future.
  "[...] I have a long perspective [...] and my hope is that maybe the US is finally starting to wake up to the danger of these theologies." ([64:03])

Notable Quotes

• Dr. Beth Allison Barr:
  "The pastor's wife is not just being a good, supportive wife; she is actually stepping in and helping to maintain his public image." ([06:09])

  "This literature is training manuals to some extent." ([29:43])

  "What many of these books teach is that the personal is political, the bedroom is the public." ([26:53])

• April:
  "A lot of that world is based on sacrifice... if your life is easy and you're comfortable, then you're not actually living out that Christian life." ([12:35])

• Tim:
  "How do you live with this cognitive dissonance?" ([21:37])

Resources Mentioned

• Books by Dr. Beth Allison Barr:

  • The Making of Biblical Womanhood: How the Subjugation of Women Became Gospel Truth
  • Becoming the Pastor's Wife: How Marriage Replaced Ordination as a Woman's Path to Ministry

• Podcast Series:

  • All the Buried Women with Savannah

• Upcoming Events:

  • Dr. Barr's counter event at the Southern Baptist Convention on June 10th.

Conclusion

Episode 23 of The Tim & April Show offers an incisive exploration of the pastor's wife role within the framework of Christian nationalism. Through Dr. Beth Allison Barr's expert insights, listeners gain a deeper understanding of how entrenched gender roles and patriarchal expectations contribute to the perpetuation of conservative ideologies, with significant implications for both women and the broader faith community. The discussion underscores the urgent need for cultural and theological reassessment to foster a more inclusive and equitable Christian society.