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The Tim & April Show
27. Former Marine Amy McGrath Explains Trump's Lawful but Awful Abuse of Power
01:03:59
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- [00:01]
April
You know that one friend who somehow knows everything about money? Yeah. Now imagine they live in your phone. Say hey to Experian, your big financial friend. It's the app that helps you check your FICO score, find ways to save, and basically feel like a financial genius. And guess what? It's totally free. So go on, download the Experian app. Trust me, having a BFF like this is a total game changer. You're listening to a new evangelicals production, the Tim and April show, where we unravel faith, politics and culture. Hello, everybody.
- [00:46]
Tim
Hi.
- [00:47]
April
Welcome to another episode of the Tim and April Show. I am April.
- [00:52]
Tim
I am Tim.
- [00:53]
April
And we are here. It is a Monday when this is airing.
- [00:57]
Tim
I have a confession, April. We've been doing this for a few months now, and I still don't know who talks first after the singer. Do I go first? Do you go first? Then I feel like if I start talking, cut you off, people are like, oh, my God, he's so misogynistic. He has to lord over his co host. So I don't know. I just over. I overthink it every time.
- [01:14]
April
I think that's always. Why there's just, like, a space at the very beginning because both of us are like, who's going first? Like, we couldn't. Like, we couldn't just decide beforehand. You talk. Or, like, we could just do that.
- [01:26]
Tim
Nah, we had no time.
- [01:28]
April
We just roll the dice. We just see what happens.
- [01:31]
Tim
See, this is organic. It's not overproduced. It's not scripted. This is real life. We both freeze.
- [01:40]
April
You go, no, you go, no, you.
- [01:42]
Tim
I feel like we are both. I mean, whenever you and I are, like, planning show stuff or we're talking about titles or thumbnails and creating that, we're almost. We're always so, like, amicable to each other, it's like, no, whatever you prefer. And then we end up, like, being like, well, one of us has to make a decision.
- [01:58]
April
I know. I feel like, like, well, I. I think I prefer this one, but I'm really, totally cool with whatever you all want. If you want something different.
- [02:06]
Tim
I'm like, no, April, I love that design. I. I'm totally cool with that as well. One suggestion, if you want, we could maybe tweak one minor thing here. But we don't have to.
- [02:15]
Amy McGrath
Yeah.
- [02:15]
April
And I'm like, oh, no, that's really great. That's great. I was just thinking this. No, that's. That's totally fine. It was just, like, tiptoe.
- [02:22]
Tim
So funny. Anyway.
- [02:23]
April
Fine. It's all good. We get it done.
- [02:25]
Tim
Yeah, we got it done. We got it done. We're here again, so.
- [02:29]
April
Well, we have a really great guest today, and I want to. I don't want to waste any time and get right to her. We are honored to have Amy McGrath. She is a retired lieutenant colonel from the United States Marine Corps, and she, if you follow her on Twitter now called X or wherever, she posts some great truth bombs and is fighting this fascist regime just like us all. And so we wanted to talk to her about what's going on in this crazy world. Welcome, Amy.
- [02:58]
Amy McGrath
Hey, great to be with you.
- [03:00]
April
We're so glad that you're here. So where does one even begin? There's a lot happening in the nation, especially with the military. Maybe let's just start what. That may be the most obvious, which is that last week, Trump deployed the National Guard against LA protesters against United States citizens without the consent of the governor of California. And you're a veteran, a former Marine yourself, and Trump also sent some Marines there. So what's your take on that? Is that something that is. Okay, Is. Is there precedent?
- [03:40]
Tim
Normal?
- [03:41]
Amy McGrath
Yeah.
- [03:42]
Tim
Like, I have no clue. I just see headlines and go, oh, I'm not sure.
- [03:46]
Amy McGrath
Yeah. So the bottom line is it's of heinous misuse of our military. Okay. Is it lawful? Yes. Yes. And we can talk about that. It's. It's lawful and awful at the same time.
- [04:02]
Tim
I like that.
- [04:02]
Amy McGrath
Okay. The military, the history in the United States of America is our military not be used for domestic purposes. That is kind of a big, huge civilian norm. Are there exceptions? Yes, there have been exceptions, but after the Civil War, we enacted in this country something called the Pasa Comitatus act, which basically says that the military cannot be used for policing, cannot be used to search and seize people, cannot be used to detain American citizens. So that has been enshrined in law since the late 1800s. Now, you can get around that if you invoke the Insurrection act, where there's a law that says the President can use the military if there's, like, an insurrection into the country, you know, the military or the government's being overthrown, but that isn't happening right now. And what is happening is the President is using another piece of US law called Title 10, and that says that you can use the military if there is a rebellion against the country. And there is not a rebellion right now, but he is using that in order to justify federalizing the National Guard. As you said at the beginning of your show, without the consent of the governor. And that is a big deal that has not happened at, at all in our country since the civil rights era when the President, LBJ did that. But he did it because of the desegregation that needed to happen at that time in the South. And that was for a small period of time in a small area. What President Trump is doing right now is basically an open ended declaration that says that he can federalize the troops, the National Guard, anytime he wants, wherever he wants, regardless of any governor's say. I mean, that that is wrong. And then the, the deployment of the, of the United States Marines, that's even worse because Marines are not trained to do this type of work.
- [06:21]
April
Interesting.
- [06:22]
Amy McGrath
So there you go.
- [06:23]
Tim
Yeah, I mean, I think about, it's interesting how on January 6th the Insurrection act wasn't invoked. And if there was any, if there was any reason to maybe invoke that, I mean, taking over our Capitol building during the certification process might be a good reason to do that. But now, I mean, I've even read reports that, that, you know, Trump has said that, you know, using that isn't off the table. It's just not being used right now to really stop protests that are overwhelmingly peaceful in la. Of course there are some agitators, we've seen some of the violence, but nothing that is beyond, you know, the typical protesting world that we see, you know, pretty consistently for different causes. And plus, I mean, la, listen, I mean, Rodney King was la, right. Louisiana has experienced real riots. They are obviously equipped and know how to handle people who protest. So it just seems to us another example of what it is really ironic watching MAGA run on a campaign of we don't want big government, we don't want tyranny, we only to then enact policies and attitudes that are quite tyrannical.
- [07:26]
Amy McGrath
Totally. So first of all, the Rodney King, when that happened, they did call up the National Guard, guess what? The Governor asked for it. They needed that time. And now as you mentioned, the folks in Los Angeles, they can handle this. They've been doing this for a long time. I think they learned a lot from the Rodney King experience of what they needed to have. And let's be clear, the LAPD has asked for help. They have not asked for it. The Governor has not asked for it. The Mayor of Los Angeles have said, we've got everything under control. And so when you bring in these federal troops and you bring in these, these U.S. marines, you're basically just making an issue bigger. It doesn't need to be that Big. These protests, yes, some of them have been a bit out of control. Guess what? When, when the Eagles won the super bowl, there were some out of control protests, you know, close to where you are, Ken. Tim.
- [08:22]
Tim
I mean, I'm right across the bridge from Philly, so I'm, I'm.
- [08:26]
Amy McGrath
I mean, you're in New Jersey. That happens every day, right? I mean, I mean, it's just, Come on. It is a total misuse of the military. It is not what we're designed to do. And it also, I think a lot of people don't maybe appreciate the very fragility of the civil military relationship that the US Military has with this population. We are very unique. Those of us that are in the military, we are, shall I say, thankful that we have this great relationship with the American people. And that is built on trust. And this trust is very easily frayed when somebody like Donald Trump, who does not understand the military, does not understand the concepts of honor and character and all of these things. And he really doesn't understand the military at all. The idea that you would serve and sacrifice for something greater than yourself, that he does not understand that. And so he uses the military in ways that we are not supposed to be used. And that in turn, really, I'm worried about the American people not believing in the military anymore. If you see U.S. marines with rifles, you know, guarding these ICE agents with masks over their face, going into people's homes, that's a problem. Because people don't distinguish then between the camouflage that looks, wow, that looks like a US Marine camouflage, or is that a ICE camouflage? Nobody freaking knows. I mean, I know because I've been in the military, but the average American doesn't know. And that's a problem.
- [10:10]
April
That's a really good point. Because whenever I've been out and about and I see a copy, even though I know I'm not doing anything wrong, my anxiety shoots up. You know, I'm like, I don't want to do anything wrong, but if I've seen someone in active duty uniform or military or army gear, I. I don't feel threatened at all. I feel like they're on my side. They're here to, you know, protect me as an American citizen. And I'm. That's. That's a very, I think, an important distinction of when you're using the military in this way, you are losing trust with the American people. And let me ask you this. What. What about the people in the military? So I've. I've never been in the military. I'VE never gone through any training. Is there training force? Like, I know we're in unprecedented times and what Trump has done so far has been lawful ish, right?
- [11:04]
Tim
Lawful ish, yeah.
- [11:08]
April
Is there anything in the training that would instruct someone in the military? If Trump, you know, just continues to get more and more fascist, more dictator like, and start, you know, if he were to ever to command the military to do something that went against the Constitution, is there.
- [11:25]
Tim
Right.
- [11:26]
April
Like are you, is the military trained to choose the Constitution or are they do what they know with the President?
- [11:33]
Tim
Yeah.
- [11:34]
Amy McGrath
So I get this question a lot and there is no clear cut answer, April, to this. I think so. Members of the military have a duty to not follow illegal orders. So if you're, for example, you're overseas and your commander tells you, I want you to execute all of these prisoners, guess what? That is an illegal order under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. And under the laws of war, we don't execute people in the back of the head. You know, we're in America. Okay. So that's kind of clear cut. And we have a duty not to follow those orders. I think where it's, where it gets a gray area is where the order is not quite as clear cut. Okay. So, you know, the, the use of the military on the domestic side is, is a, an area that's not quite as clear cut. What happens with. If you're getting, you know, rocks thrown at you, you're getting, you know, in the, the, you're trying to do this police stuff and protesters are throwing things at you, maybe there's a gunshot or something. Now what do you do? Now what are you, what are your rules of engagement? Are you cleared to shoot? Are you cleared to shoot for to kill? And those are sort of ever changing and it's by each mission. So it's very concerning. On the bigger picture, what happens when the President orders you to do something, I don't know, like deploy to Los Angeles and then it's stopped in the courts and the Supreme Court, you know, as it's sort of making its way up to the court, perhaps the Supreme Court will say, that's not a legal order for you to give to the military. Now what now does the military follow the commander in chief if he decides to not obey what the Supreme Court says? This is a constitutional crisis, April and Tim, that we have never seen in this country before. And that is why it's so concerning. We've never had a president who has so just blatantly said, well, maybe I won't listen to the courts.
- [13:56]
Tim
So we, we try. We have a lot of fun on the show. We go live every Thursday and we definitely have our fair share of, of being a little hyperbolic in our rhetoric, but it's always in good faith. When, when it comes down to getting more serious, though, we do try and be as factual and data driven as possible. Because I grew up listening to talk radio, you know, I was taught very early on that Obama was going to destroy the country. And eight years later, you know, 20 years later, here we are. Right. And so we don't want to sound like that if there's no data behind it. But your last statement is concerning. I was going to ask you about that. Like, do you really feel like we're in unprecedented times as a country? And do you think if we continue on the path that we're on, I mean, right now we've seen this administration defy Supreme Court orders. Right. In the case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, they, they fought the Supreme Court hard not to bring him back. And, and now they're trying to give him these. I think they're BS charges. Right. Of trafficking. Do you think that we could be on a path that could lead to some kind of like, serious internal conflict between the military and the courts and the, you know, in the presidential branch? Like, how do you read the room right now based on your experience being in the military?
- [15:01]
Amy McGrath
Yeah, I think we are in unprecedented times. I wouldn't be speaking out so, so much if I wasn't so concerned about this. And I don't think it's going to happen. Like, it's not going to happen overnight. Very, very quickly. What's going to happen is this slow trickle to unconstitutional ways. You're already seeing that happen. And as we normalize it, it's going to, they're going to keep pushing the edge of the envelope. And that is what I'm concerned about. So, yes, I do think we're in unprecedented times. If you look at history, you look at, for example, the Iran Contra scandal, you remember, way back, maybe even before your time, I think I was in grade school, this was a constitutional crisis between Congress and the president. Congress said, you can't sell arms to Iran and then turn around and take that money and give it to the Contras. Contras, you know, they were in Nicaragua. Congress had passed a law saying, we know you want to do this, Mr. President, we're telling you, you can't do this. Okay. Law goes into effect, resolution goes into effect, and then what happens? The National Security Council, Oliver north, the people that work directly for the president, guess what they did? They just disregarded the law. They went behind closed doors and did it anyway. They broke the law. And then we found out, the American people found out. And then what happened? It was a big scandal. They had to testify in front of Congress and you know, lots of people got fired. At least in that period of time. We had some checks and balances. Today I worry that there's none Today I worry that you have a complicit Congress who basically doesn't care about their own power anymore. They just care about kissing up to Donald Trump and they will let him do whatever he wants. And you have a court that may hold the line, but that may be the executive. What happens when he decides he doesn't want to go along? The courts don't have any enforcing mechanism. Congress has a mechanism of we control the purse, the money, but the courts don't have anything. So this is the fragile state of American democracy. You go back to grade school, it's supposed to be three co, equal branches. But that means that the people in those branches have to believe in democracy, they have to believe in our Constitution. And I don't think Donald Trump does. And I think the guys in Congress right now who are Republicans believe more in their party and their power than they do in our democracy itself. That's sad to say. Sorry.
- [17:55]
April
On that note, no, I think you're totally right. And that's been one of the more frustrating things for me as a former die hard Republican who was for democracy and believed in smaller government, that was a big key thing. And balancing the budget. Those were all the talking points that we have. And now we're seeing a Republican Party that is much, is very much for a very big federal government going against states rights all the time.
- [18:26]
Amy McGrath
180 degrees off.
- [18:28]
April
Yeah. And the, the big beautiful bill is the exact opposite of balancing the budget. It's just adding to the debt. And we just saw Trump, you know, he's been talking about government waste. We get rid of all this waste and then just throws like a $45 million military parade.
- [18:46]
Amy McGrath
And April, and April, we forget the tariffs. The tariffs are central government planning for the economy. What's another name for that communism, folks? That is central government tinkering into the economy. That is what they are doing. And we don't want to talk about it because a lot of people don't even know what that word is. That is thrown around as, as, you know, communist, socialist, all that stuff. It's like big buzzwords. But at its core, what Republicans used to stand for is we don't want government to be involved in the capitalistic nature. We don't want regulations, we don't want big government telling us businesses what to do. What Donald Trump has done with the tariffs is the opposite of that on steroids.
- [19:36]
Tim
Yeah, yeah.
- [19:42]
April
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- [19:54]
Amy McGrath
But did you know about skirts with.
- [19:56]
April
Built in liner shorts so you can still jump for the Frisbee and tanks and bodysuits with Align's iconic stretch you won't want to to take it off. And with endless style options, you don't have to shop in store or online@lululemon.com.
- [20:12]
Tim
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- [20:42]
Amy McGrath
Hi, this is Joe from Vanta. In today's digital world, compliance regulations are changing constantly and earning customer trust has never mattered more.
- [20:49]
April
Vanta helps companies get compliant fast and.
- [20:52]
Amy McGrath
Stay secure with the most advanced AI automation and continuous monitoring out there. So whether you're a startup going for your first SoC2 or ISO 27001 or a growing enterprise managing vendor risk, Vanta makes it quick, easy and scalable. And I'm not just saying that because I work here. Get started@vanta.com hey there. I am Susan and I live in Southern Illinois. I have been a T and E donor two different times now. One of the things that's most important to me is that Tim and the board are fully committed to transparency and honesty. They don't want donors to feel as if though we are being coerced as often happens within church environments. I am grateful for Tim and all that he has accomplished. I look forward to the future and believe that fundraising is a necessary aspect for growth to allow TNE to provide these resources where they are needed most.
- [21:50]
Tim
Before we move on to some other topics, I want to follow up on one thing that you said just so I have understanding. You said that Marines aren't trained like to be deployed in A place like la. Can you unpack that? Because again, in my head, so uneducated on the military and how it works, but I just assumed, like, oh, well, if you're a Marine, clearly you know what to do. You know, if you get deployed to la, but you, your, your take is, no, we're not trained for that. Break that down for us.
- [22:12]
Amy McGrath
Yeah. So Marines can be deployed anywhere. Let's be clear. They could be deployed in desert, they could be deployed in mountains. They can be deployed. They're expeditionary. So they come from the sea. That's what United States Marine Corps is part of the Department of the Navy. Marines can certainly be deployed in urban areas and they trained for that as a war space. Okay. My point is that Marines are not trained in as much in the mission of crowd control and the mission of policing. That is not their function. They are war fighters. They are trained to shoot to kill. They're not trained in de escalation. So is there some training? Yes, there's some. It's not their primary job. It'd be like if you took the police department. The LA police department. Yeah, let's go. We need to go invade, I don't know, Iran. Would you take the LAPD and bring them and have them invade? Would they be, would they be better than, you know, my neighbors Billy Bob and Jane? Yes, of course they would be better. They know how to shoot weapons and that sort of thing. But that is not the, that's not what they're trained to do. And it's the same on the, on the Marine Corps side. Can they do it? Yes. It is not what they train every day to do. And here's the other thing. We all should be upset because we're taking these thousands of Marines and we're taking them away from their normal training cycle to do the missions that the United States needs to have them ready to do at a moment's notice. We have an aggressive Russia in Europe. We have the Chinese just doing more exercises. Now they're off the coast of Iwo Jima. This is kind of a big deal that's never been done before. We have now a new war in the Middle east and you're taking Marines from their training, from what they normally do at 29 palms and sending them to a three box radius of LA to guard a building. Really? That is just freaking dumb. That is dumb.
- [24:29]
April
That is. So, yeah.
- [24:30]
Tim
What are your thoughts on the Putin Ukraine situation? I mean, again, I think of how, just how I grew up. I'm like, I was always Sean Hannity taught me Russia bad. Like, that was that simple. Like, Putin is bad. And to see how Trump has, you know, and also even the right wing media, how they really turned on Ukraine and really became very pro Russia, and, you know, with the soft funding Ukraine, the way that President Trump treated Zelensky and that in that, that, that meeting and with the media, like, you know what he was wearing, all that stuff. How do you read that? I mean, is that jarring for you to see a sitting president, you know, really cozying up to someone like Putin and really disparaging someone like Zelensky? And I mean, again, this is not. It's complicated, but it's not right. Russia invaded Ukraine. Like, we all know that's what happened. Even for me, I'm. It just blows my mind that people can say, well, you know, let Russia have their things. We can just kind of move on. Like, what? I don't understand that.
- [25:26]
April
Well, they're also saying, like, I've seen a lot of maga that defend it by saying, well, Trump's just playing chess. Like, he's doing this. He's playing 4D chess.
- [25:35]
Amy McGrath
Yeah.
- [25:36]
April
Is there any military? Like, is there a strategic reason to befriend someone like Putin?
- [25:42]
Amy McGrath
No.
- [25:43]
Tim
Okay.
- [25:44]
Amy McGrath
It's completely un American. And I never thought I would see something like this in my lifetime. I grew up, I was an independent my entire time in the United States military. My heroes were mostly generals and admirals, but on the political side, many of them were Republicans. Dick Lugar, John McCain, that sort of thing. And so the Republican Party was the party of national security. They were the party that stood up Mr. President or tear down this wall. That was sort of the Republican mantra. They have totally done a 180, and they've all followed this guy, Donald Trump, who I actually think doesn't have a clue about geostrategic issues, who doesn't really stand for American principles. He's very much a transactional type of guy. And it's really sad to see. I mean, Vladimir Putin is a war criminal. He is a guy who has allowed his troops to target civilians, to enact torture, to just do heinous, heinously bad things on top of invading the sovereign nation that is neighboring him, that he signed a decree back in the 90s that said he would not invade them. That's why Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons. They gave them back to Russia when the Soviet Union broke up. They didn't need to do that. And so it's all terrible to see. And the other thing is just on Your comment of Donald Trump playing chess. All right, so let me remind people. So first of all, in Donald Trump's first term, he was surrounded by some pretty competent people. He himself was not competent, but he surrounded himself with some H.R. mcMaster, General Mattis, General Kelly. I never agreed with John Bolton, but at least he was competent. He had some decent people around him. This term he has surrounded himself with the crazy crackpot conspiracy theorists and nut bags and they are out there. And so his primary, to give you an example of when you say Donald Trump is playing chess, he the guy that he sent over there to negotiate with Russia and Ukraine. The same guy he sent to fix the war in Gaza. The same guy he sent to do an Iran deal, which, oh, by the way, all three of those things have failed. That guy was his golf buddy who's never had a, he's never had any experience in international relations. No experience in diplomacy. He's a frickin real estate dude.
- [28:40]
April
What's his name?
- [28:41]
Tim
Yeah, what's his. Dude, I gotta look it up. I'm looking it up.
- [28:46]
Amy McGrath
Look into these people like, it's like they have no, they could not even be on even the committee during any normal presidency to go out there and negotiate. They are so inexperienced. This is the guy who went to Russia to talk to Vladimir Putin and did not bring an interpreter.
- [29:05]
April
Oh my gosh.
- [29:06]
Amy McGrath
So they used. Why do they hurt Putin's interpreter? I mean, the incompetence is so bad. And that's just on the diplomacy side. I mean, we haven't even gotten into Pete Hegseth. I mean, I was going to ask.
- [29:19]
April
You about him really quick.
- [29:21]
Tim
Is it this guy? Oh, where's my screen? There we go. Is it this guy? Steve Wyckoff? This guy?
- [29:25]
Amy McGrath
Yeah.
- [29:26]
Tim
Wow. Wow. Okay, I'll look into that later on. Wow.
- [29:31]
April
Gosh. Well, he's also, not only has he surrounded himself with incompetence, but he surrounded himself with yes men. I think in his first term he didn't like the fact that some people told him no. And so this time he's like, well, I'm just going to surround myself with people who are loyal to me and only to me.
- [29:49]
Amy McGrath
Yeah. I mean, Tulsi Gabbard, conspiracy theorist, the head of our intelligence, RFK Jr. Anti Vaxxer, the head of the of. I mean, it's, it's like every single cabinet there is nobody who's serious. It is all crackpots. I mean, with the exception of Marco Rubio. But I also think Marco Rubio is just, he's Just beat down.
- [30:13]
April
Oh, Marco looks like his soul has left his body. Like he has dead eyes. You know, it's like there was a cost, there was a conscience in there somewhere that has just died a slow death.
- [30:27]
Tim
We have covered numerous folks on the show. We probably covered RFK extensively. And we've also covered Pete Hegseth because, you know, we track Christian nationalism. That's like one of the things that we do.
- [30:38]
April
Yeah.
- [30:39]
Tim
And Pete Hegseth, you know, the theology and the people that he surrounds himself with on a theological side, these are people who really believe in Christian dominionism. I mean, you know, Doug Wilson is. Is the main person over the domination that Pete Hegseth attends. And you should look up some of his stuff if you haven't. I mean, this guy is someone who is a borderline Confederate defender. He says that. That slavery wasn't that bad overall. It was actually full of racial harmony. I'm not, I'm not exaggerating, by the way. Like, we have all the receipts on this and he's someone who believes. And by the way, I've actually interviewed Doug Wilson for content before. On our other podcast, he told us straight to our face that before he dies, he wants Jesus Christ as Lord in the Constitution. And this is who Pete Hegseth is under theologically. This is what he believes. And so I am curious though, on the military side, right, where you have all these. These stories that have dropped about, about things in signal chats and his wife being in a signal chat and dropping all this information, you know, confidential information, how as a former Marine, as someone who is, you know, so embedded in that, on that side of things, when you saw that Pete Hegseth was the nominee for Secretary of Defense. And see, I'm sure you've been watching how he's been behaving and leading. What's your take on him?
- [31:53]
Amy McGrath
Where to begin? I think. I think Pete Hegseth, I think he's got a very dangerous combination for Secretary of Defense. He is not qualified. He has never held a position of any meaning outside the National Guard in being a soldier. He's not been able to lead anything without running it into the ground financially or being fired for misconduct. The. So his management skills were just non existent. He. He led a veterans group that consisted of about 25 people. And he ran it financially into the ground. And lots of people that worked with him said that, you know, they didn't trust him and didn't want him to lead anymore. And then he became a Fox News personality and he looks really good on tv and that's how he got you connected with Donald Trump. But so he's not qualified. And he's got this dangerous combination of incompetence because he's not qualified and he's deeply insecure about that. But he's also arrogant because he's got this attitude of I'm the warrior and everybody else that doesn't look like me and act like me and do push ups like me is not a warrior. And that's just, you know, it is what it is. But I also think that he's a very, he thinks at the tactical level. He's never had a position even in the military above the tactical level. So what do I mean by that? Yeah, he's not, he's not risen into the higher ranks to have to look at things strategically. You know, you can, you can win battle after battle, after battle, but if you don't understand strategy, you're going to lose the war. And I don't think he's a guy that really thinks that much. He's much more of a, let's go get him. I want guys that can knock down doors and that in today's military you need people that can think. Yes, you need the door knockers, but you don't need all the guys that can knock down doors. You need people who are interpreters. You need people who can call in for air support. You need people who understand and can be medics. Oh my gosh, linguists, you know, cultural understanding. We can go in there and shoot a bunch of people up in the Middle East. But like, if you don't understand the culture, what you're doing is you're creating more enemies. One of the things that we did, you know, was a concern was we used to have patches on our flight suits and we would fly in places like Afghanistan and in the Middle East. And some of those patches, frankly, were not great. You know, they had some, some really, you know, maybe, maybe even Christian nationalist things on them. And the problem is that we're partnered with nations that are not Christian. And so you're walking around there with things that offend them. That actually hurts the bigger strategic picture. So your need to look tough, Mr. Tough Guy, is hurting the bigger strategic picture in, in that case. And I think Pete, Pete Hagseth does not understand that at all. I mean, if you look at his policies, trying to rename the bases back to Confederates, he really hates women in the military and that ask you about that. Well, it's because women have been able to do things that that he. He didn't do. Yeah, he never got promoted. He didn't. He didn't go to some of these schools that women have graduated from. And he's.
- [35:48]
Tim
That.
- [35:48]
Amy McGrath
That hurts his. His self esteem.
- [35:51]
Tim
And frankly, his theology teaches that women are supposed to be under men. I mean, this is. Again, this is Doug Wilson. This is. His own pastor teaches this stuff. You know, they're big on the. On the created order, and they. They believe that it's God and then men lead and women follow, and they're the, quote, unquote, the weaker vessel. I mean, this stuff might sound crazy. Crazy to some folks, but. But Pete really believes this. Right? And so for him to come in and be like, we have to do whatever we can to minimize women in military or other kinds of folks in military. It. It is for sure cultural and also incredibly theological for these folks because they want to make America this very, you know, militant Dominionist Christian kind of nation where, where they're bringing their version of the gospel to all parts of American life, including the. The military. And it's, It's. It. You know, what has always concerned April and I, we've been talking about this for such a long time now. It's not that Pete Hegsett's views are wildly popular, but people like Pete now have access to real power. Right? That's what concerns us. The fact that Pete is Secretary of Defense is a huge win for the Dominionist Christian nationalists who have been praying for this for years. And they see it as a sign of God blessing their efforts. I mean, it really is. I hate to talk like this, but it really is like, you know, we. I was always taught be so scared of radical Islam. Right. I should have been more terrified of radical Christianity that is currently taking over a lot of places in our, our political, you know, structure. Because this is the outcome. It's really dangerous stuff.
- [37:23]
Amy McGrath
Yeah, it is. And, you know, the military is not exactly a bastion of liberalism. It's always been pretty conservative. Okay. And so for Pete Hexath to come in and be like, ah, let's woke military. It is such bullshit. It is like the height of bullshit the whole time when he was out there testifying. And his big thing is standards when it comes to women in the military, he throws this lie out that honestly isn't countered enough about standards. He continues to say that the standards were lowered for women in combat positions, and none of that was true when they opened combat positions to women in 2015. The ground combat positions. I'm talking about that. One of the Things they found was that they didn't have unified standards. It was just like, you're a dude, you're going to be in the infantry, Go. And they realized that if they're going to open it up to women, they actually have to create standards. And so what they did was that for the first time, they created a standard for that particular job. If you're an artilleryman, you need to be able to lift this much. If you're a tanker, you need to be able to do this. If you're an infantryman, you need to be able to do this. And so when they created those standards, guess what they found? They found that some women could meet those standards. Many women cannot, but some can. You ever seen those CrossFit women? They can meet those standards, okay? And that irks a guy like Pete Hegse. So when he gets into Secretary of Defense, he comes in and he lies and he says the standards were lower. Guys, we gotta have the same. We've always had the same standard for combat positions. Always. What he's talking about when he does these. These tirades, and people say, well, the standards are different. And for a woman, you have. Have to run at this time in the. In the physical fitness test, and for a man, you have to run this time. That is true only for the broader force for physical fitness. Physical fitness is a function of, like, overall health. And so when. When you're looking at, you know, a cook or a IT specialist or, you know, a pilot even, or an air traffic controller or something like that, you have different standards for health to maintain basic health. It has nothing to do with the standard for the combat positions, which have always been the same. So I take it personally. I know I go into the weeds there, but I take it personally because Pete Hegseth is able to get away with these lies that I know are not true, but there's not enough. There's not too many people out there countering because, you know, he's. He's in power, as you said.
- [40:07]
April
I do think that's, like, just a huge problem in general right now is people getting away with lies. I mean, Donald Trump lies about stupid stuff, you know, like. Like you just said there were 250,000 people at his military parade. And. Yeah, actually, I want to ask you about the military parade.
- [40:27]
Tim
There they are. There's a lot of people at the parade. April.
- [40:31]
April
Like to get your general thoughts of it, but then I've got a clip of. Was it the army marching? Do you have that, Tim?
- [40:40]
Tim
I have it.
- [40:40]
April
And some People, mine were saying because they were not marching in sync. And many people are speculating that maybe that was kind of a quiet protest to not be in sync, that they would obviously be in sync if they weren't trying to do it on purpose. So let's. I want to watch this, and I want to see if you. If that's the vibe you got as well.
- [41:03]
Amy McGrath
Just your service, your son, the camaraderie. Stephanie, I want to bring you in on this conversation.
- [41:13]
April
Whether we are serving in the military.
- [41:15]
Amy McGrath
Or we are the journalists that cover the military, I can say from the bottom of my heart, there are people. I still keep in touch.
- [41:23]
Tim
There you go.
- [41:25]
Amy McGrath
Okay. Yeah. I've gotten this question before, so what I'm gonna say may disappoint some. The military is a cross of society. It's got probably 25% hardcore Republican, 25% more left leaning, and then the other 50%, guess what? They're probably somewhere in the middle or don't even really care. Okay. And so I think what you saw in the parade was a lot of troops who don't want to be there, whose weekend and perhaps the week prior was spent training and getting. Or training, but logistically getting themselves to that location. And they look at something like this, what you're seeing as meaningless work. Typically soldiers, they parade when. After basic training, and that's Is not something that we normally do. You do it in basic training, and you're very good at it. Basic training, because you're really happy to graduate and you're done with that and your parents are there and you want to look good. But after that, guess what? You don't do a whole lot of parades and you don't want to because it's kind of meaningless. It's something that's a tradition from the 1800s and 1700s when we used to fight in that manner. But now we don't do that. And so I feel like what you're seeing is a bunch of hot, tired men and women who probably wish they could be with their families watching baseball or something on the weekend. That's my take.
- [43:06]
Tim
That sounds reasonable to me. I mean, listen, I have learned, even in spaces that maybe I would largely agree with, I've seen a lot of misinformation. I've seen clips being shared of things that didn't really happen over the past few months, they happened years ago. Being painted as, oh, my gosh, it's happening now. And obviously bad things are happening now. Right. We're watching what ICE is doing. There's real stories to cover. But we also don't want to. By trying to fight disinformation. We don't want to also then become purveyors of disinformation. Right. So is it possible?
- [43:37]
Amy McGrath
I don't think there's a. I don't, I, I'm, I'm, I'm 99.9% sure there's not a coordinated United States army effort to like, silently protest by marching incorrectly. I just think it's a bunch of, they're just tired. They're like, why the hell are we here? This is stupid. You know, I mean that. And they would, they would do the same thing. Whether it was Biden calling for, for this parade or Trump calling for the parade. They, they'd march the same way.
- [44:03]
Tim
I think that makes sense. You know, listen, are there maybe some individuals who in their head are like, this is what I'm going to do. It's possible, but is there a coordinated effort? Most likely not. Right? So I think that that's totally reasonable.
- [44:14]
April
Be like maybe a one off. You know, someone's like, I'm not going to beat him.
- [44:18]
Amy McGrath
I do think, though, what's more concerning is the leaderships of the army and some other services, their capitulation to Trump politicizing the military. So what do I mean by that? When Trump went to Fort Bragg and gave his very political speech, there you have it right there. The base commander allowed the mega memorabilia train to come in and sell a bunch of political gear on base. That is like, I mean, you can't, I can't even believe that. As a former Marine Corps officer, I cannot believe that. That is a huge breach of civil. Then, then they, they allow him to, to, they screen for soldiers to stand behind him based on who's gonna laugh at his jokes and who's gonna laugh and cheer when he shits on Joe Biden and all these other elected officials. That is a clear breach of. You don't do that. We don't do that. We don't screen for people's political ideologies before we put them in front. And then Trump himself giving a political speech in front of the troops is just flat out wrong. When he went to West Point and wore a Make America Great Again hat at the graduation, at the graduation, they do the pass and review with a mega hat on. That is wrong. It is a politicization of the military. And these military leaders, in my belief, is they don't really know what to do. The right thing to do would be, Mr. President, take the hat off, please. Take the hat off before you address these troops. Clearly, they either didn't do that or they did it. And he didn't, you know, do what they asked him to do. But my belief is they just didn't ask him because they know they'll be fired.
- [46:18]
Tim
Well, while we have you for a few more minutes. Oh, sorry, April, do you have things you want to add to that just.
- [46:23]
April
Where we are and what you think is going to happen? Like what? Is there hope? Are we going to get out of this, or are we going to continue to go further and further down the fascist?
- [46:35]
Tim
Yeah, good question.
- [46:36]
Amy McGrath
Well, I'm an optimist, so I'm always trying to have hope. I think what helps is for people who are listening to continue to pay attention, to continue to talk to their neighbors, to continue to have these hard conversations that maybe they don't want to have. And when I always say, what can you do for your country right now? Is you can talk to people who maybe don't get it or maybe aren't paying attention, because I do think that it is a slippery slope and it is moving in the wrong direction. Right now. We are five, six months into a very long presidency where a lot can happen. So I'm very worried. But I'm also optimistic. I think people are stepping up. I see folks going out to protest who have never protested before. One of my mother's good friends who are in their 80s, mid-80s. They've been lifelong friends with my father who passed away, and my mom were lifelong friends with this couple that live in now live in Arizona. And recently we spoke with them via Zoom. And I was there at mom's house. And Rich, who's the man? He said to me, you know, Amy, I'm 85 years old. I've never protested anything in my country ever went through Vietnam era and all of that. And I've never been to a protest. I am going out to protest, to be there because they are so concerned. I mean, this generation, the older generation, get it. I think they see what's going on. I think more so than the younger generation.
- [48:24]
April
I wonder if that's from remembering World War II and seeing maybe some parallels between the two. Tim, I just sent you a picture. I saw this online from the no Kings protest. It's a man. He's got a walker. He's holding a sign that says, I fought fascism in 1945 at 102. I am doing it again. And I feel like that's just such a powerful.
- [48:50]
Amy McGrath
It really is. People who remember and this weekend I was out and I saw a protester where I was in one of the no Kings, the local one near where I live. It was a woman who had a sign and it said, my father fought fascists in World War II. So I'm. I'm doing the same now.
- [49:10]
Tim
Wow.
- [49:11]
Amy McGrath
And I was like, okay.
- [49:12]
Tim
Wow.
- [49:13]
Amy McGrath
And these are just normal people, you know, they're not. They're not like.
- [49:16]
Tim
Right.
- [49:17]
Amy McGrath
They're not antifa. They're not paid persons. They're not left with. They're not. They. Many of them have never been to a protest before, you know, and they're just. They're out there and they're not. They're not doing the chance. They're just out there.
- [49:30]
Tim
Yeah.
- [49:31]
Amy McGrath
And I just feel like. Okay, that gives me hope.
- [49:33]
Tim
Yeah. 100%. Before we let you go. And I really appreciate you making so much time for us on such short notice, and we'll have to have you back on again as things continue to develop. So thank you for making time. I do want to just hit this really quick. You responded to this tweet from Stephen Miller. Stephen Miller tweeted, sanctuary cities are engaged in a criminal conspiracy to obstruct, defy and dismantle the federal laws of the United States in order to end the sovereignty of the United States. That is the crisis at hand. That's an extreme statement, to be clear. Wow. And you responded, do you know what the crisis at hand is? It's right wing radicals murdering elected officials. I mean, obviously your response is somewhat self explanatory, but talk to me about obviously, what's happened in Minnesota. Right. I mean, the authorities have arrested Vance Boltzer. As of this recording, he's been charged with murder and stalking.
- [50:20]
Amy McGrath
He.
- [50:21]
Tim
He shot and killed a politician and her husband. And then I'm gravely injured another politician and their spouse. Yeah, talk to me about that. As you see the rhetoric that MAGA uses, I mean, Trump called immigrants the poison to the blood of society. Right. Maga, right wing media calls people demons, demonic. The left must be dismantled and eradicated. You know, is for you. Do you just see that rhetoric finally, you know, coming home to roost, frankly, in some of these. These people who might believe this stuff and doing extreme things.
- [50:55]
Amy McGrath
I do. I think that this is an example of, first of all, when Stephen Miller talks about what the crisis at hand is. This is it. This is happening right now. It's not just talk. It's this. You know, this guy murdered four individuals because they were Democrats. He had a list of like 40 individuals just came out this morning. Guess who. Guess. On those lists, all of them are democr. So this is a politically motivated murder. That is the crisis at hand in this country. It is not sanctuary cities, which have been around a long time. If sanctuary cities were supposedly ruining and destroying our democracy. Wow. They've been around a long time. They haven't done that yet. You know, I mean, it's just like. It is so crazy what they're trying to do. And his rhetoric is part of that, and as you mentioned, some of it. Look, Donald Trump sets the tone for the country when he is the president, like it or not, he is the leader. He is the president, and people listen to him. When he says that migrants coming here are monsters, vicious monsters, what do you think people are gonna do? When he says that there's people, these migrants and immigrants are rapists and criminals, and the Democrats are protecting them, what do you think people are gonna do? It is the language where the other side is evil, more evil than Vladimir Putin, more evil than actual evil in this world. And that is just ripping us apart from the inside. And it's creating these murderers, these domestic terrorists to go out and do these types of things. And so we're seeing that. And what really concerns me right now is there's not enough bipartisan language. So the Minnesota legislature came together and made a bipartisan statement about this incident and it being wrong. We don't have a bipartisan statement from the US House of Representatives. My God. We don't have a bipartisan statement coming out of the Senate. Why? Why? And the statement that's coming out from President Trump is just like, somebody wrote it for him, and then he turns around and shits on the governor of Minnesota. I mean, it's like. It is like the absolute. You might as well just shut up, Mr. President. Just be quiet. Don't say anything, because you're making things worse. Where are our leaders to come together and say, no political violence in America? None.
- [53:54]
April
Should be easy.
- [53:55]
Tim
Should be easy. Should be easy. Easy. Easy. Just for the audience out there who maybe isn't watching and listening on podcasts, you're referring to. Trump was asked recently, have you called Governor Waltz yet? And according to Fact Post News, Trump's response. And there's a video of this, too, so this is definitely factual. Trump said, quote, I don't want to call him. I think the governor of Minnesota is so whacked out, why would I call? I could call him and say, hi, how you doing? He's a mess. I could be nice and column but why waste time? This is the sitting President of the US Arguably the world's most powerful man, who sets the tone for the country and really for the world in many ways. And he can't even call a political opponent whose state just suffered a horrific act of political terrorism. And by the way, Tim himself was on that list. And that's Trump's response. He's whacked out.
- [54:48]
Amy McGrath
It is wrong. It is the worst leadership I have ever seen. And it's not just him, it's his Cabinet. Kristi Noem going to Los Angeles and saying, we're here to liberate Los Angeles from the socialist elected leaders. I mean, the speaker of the House calling for the tar and feathering of a sitting governor. The speaker of the House, like, what.
- [55:25]
April
The f. Supposedly a great Christian, too.
- [55:28]
Tim
Great Christian man. That's right. Family values are on display. Yeah.
- [55:33]
Amy McGrath
But the tone is set by the President and these guys. The speaker of the House, Kristi Noem, their audience is one person. They don't care, in my belief, they don't care about the American people anymore. And they don't care about being real leaders of character if they ever did. They care about pleasing one guy who sets the tone. And this is the tone that he set for our country. And I do worry about that every day.
- [56:02]
April
Do you think the Republican Party will recover from Trump?
- [56:08]
Amy McGrath
Not anytime soon.
- [56:09]
Tim
Yeah, I agree.
- [56:11]
Amy McGrath
I think it's going to be decades.
- [56:13]
Tim
Yeah, I agree.
- [56:16]
April
Well, Amy, thank you so much for being with us. Can you tell everybody if they want to follow your work and keep in touch with you, where can they.
- [56:25]
Amy McGrath
Yeah, so I also have a show. I have it. We started it in April. It's called Truth in the Barrel. It's a Whiskey Whiskey Bourbon theme. And I do this show. It's on national security and politics. I do it with Denver Riggleman, who is a former Republican member of Congress. He was an Air Force guy, I was a Marine, and so I never made it to Congress. I ran as a sort of center left Democrat. Denver was a sort of center right Republican. And so we feel like there's space to talk about what's going on in our world from kind of a common sense perspective. And so it's called Truth in the Barrel, and you can find it on all of your podcast platforms and YouTube as well. And we. We do a couple shows each week. We did. We have guests, but sometimes we just talk about the news of the day. So it's. It's kind of fun.
- [57:17]
April
Awesome. And then people can follow you on social media as well, right?
- [57:21]
Amy McGrath
That's right. I'm on all the, yeah, Amy McGrath, Ky is usually what my handle is and I'm there on X and blue sky and all the, oh my gosh, the decentralized world of social media everywhere.
- [57:37]
April
Awesome. Well, yeah, thanks so much for being here and hopefully I'm sure we'll try to have you back on because it's I learned a lot. So thank you so much.
- [57:45]
Tim
You bring it, you bring a side of things that we have no connection to which is so needed for how we kind of respond to the cultural moment. So again, thanks for your time. And friends, if you're watching this, make sure to leave a comment. We'll love your thoughts on this kind of interview and make sure to subscribe to the channel. We'll talk to you all next time. See you later, April. Say goodbye. Okay, there we go.