29. This Christian Nationalist Women's Summit Wraps Oppression in Pink

Summary

Episode 29: This Christian Nationalist Women's Summit Wraps Oppression in Pink

Podcast: The Tim & April Show
Host/Author: The New Evangelicals
Release Date: June 30, 2025
Description: Where we unravel faith, politics, and culture.

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Introduction: Setting the Stage

In this episode, The Tim & April Show delves into the contentious realm of Christian nationalism, focusing specifically on Turning Point USA's (TPUSA) annual Young Women's Leadership Summit (YWLS). Hosts Tim and April express their intention to dissect and critique the narratives presented by TPUSA, highlighting the intersection of faith, politics, and the cultural pressures imposed on women within these frameworks.

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Examining Erica Kirk’s Address: Flower Power and Christian Femininity

The episode opens with a critical analysis of Erica Kirk, wife of Charlie Kirk, who speaks at the YWLS. Tim and April comment on Erica's presentation style and attire, noting the incongruity between her "flower power" aesthetics and the sternness of her message.

Notable Quote:

• [06:12] Erica Kirk: "Here to say welcome to the spiritual war. If you're not aware of it, put on the armor, stand your post. You're a woman of the word..."

Tim criticizes Erica's selective use of biblical figures, pointing out inconsistencies in her portrayal of women like Ruth and Esther, whose biblical stories embody strength and rebellion against oppression.

Key Points:

• Erica's emphasis on traditional femininity clashes with the assertive nature of her speeches.
• The hosts argue that glorifying motherhood as the ultimate fulfillment ignores the personal struggles and identity crises many women face.
• They highlight the hypocrisy in TPUSA's portrayal of Christian women, suggesting that the organization's affluent status contradicts their claims of oppression.

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Motherhood vs. Identity: Personal Narratives and Broader Critiques

April shares her personal experiences as a mother, revealing the emotional toll and loss of identity that can accompany motherhood. She contrasts her reality with Erica Kirk's idealized depiction, emphasizing the need for recognizing the challenges mothers face rather than perpetuating a flawless narrative.

Notable Quote:

• [15:12] April: "I remember after I kind of came out of the fog, I was kind of pissed because no one ever once told me how hard motherhood is and how it just sucks your life force out of you."

Key Points:

• The hosts argue that TPUSA's rhetoric imposes restrictive roles on women, limiting their choices to motherhood and marital fulfillment.
• They advocate for recognizing and supporting women's diverse aspirations beyond traditional family roles.
• Tim underscores the systemic issues, such as unaffordable healthcare and economic pressures, that undermine the idealized vision of family life presented by TPUSA.

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Ali Sucky's Toxic Empathy: A Critique of Progressive Manipulation

The hosts introduce a clip featuring Ali Sucky discussing "toxic empathy," which she argues is used by progressives to manipulate well-meaning Christians. Tim and April vehemently disagree, associating Ali's rhetoric with the MAGA movement and broader destructive policies.

Notable Quote:

• [22:17] Tim: "Like, the lie that the 2020 election was stolen. That lie."

Key Points:

• Ali Sucky's definition of toxic empathy is equated with validating lies and supporting destructive politics.
• The hosts link these concepts to broader political issues, including misinformation and harmful immigration policies.
• They argue that Ali Sucky's approach misuses biblical language to promote a partisan agenda.

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Riley Gaines and the Trans Agenda: Mocking Hypocrisy

A clip of Riley Gaines addressing Simone Biles and the trans agenda is scrutinized by Tim and April. They mock Riley's personal vendetta and highlight her inconsistent stance on personal achievements versus her outspoken political positions.

Notable Quote:

• [30:27] Riley Gaines: "This has been the hardest secret in the world for me to keep..."

Key Points:

• Riley Gaines is portrayed as exploiting personal narratives to fuel anti-trans rhetoric.
• The hosts criticize her for merging personal milestones, like announcing pregnancy, with political tirades, illustrating a blend of personal and political manipulation.
• They highlight the absurdity of Riley's arguments and the performative nature of her activism.

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Charlie Kirk’s Immigration Rhetoric: Biblical Cherry-Picking

Charlie Kirk's take on immigration is a focal point of the episode. Tim and April dissect his use of biblical verses to justify stringent immigration policies, labeling his approach as selective and misapplied.

Notable Quote:

• [51:06] Charlie Kirk: "In ancient Israel, there were two different words for foreigner... Now, did they build the walls because they hated people outside or because they loved the holy covenant that God gave them?"

Key Points:

• Charlie Kirk is accused of cherry-picking biblical passages to support anti-immigration stances while ignoring other relevant scriptures that advocate for welcoming foreigners.
• The hosts argue that modern applications of ancient texts are often flawed and used to justify exclusionary policies.
• They highlight the economic and humanitarian benefits of immigration, countering Kirk's portrayal of immigrants as threats.
• Tim and April emphasize the inconsistency in applying biblical principles, pointing out that America’s global actions often contradict the compassionate stance advocated by true Christian teachings.

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War on Motherhood and Pro-Family Policies: Lila Rose’s Agenda

The episode wraps up with a brief discussion on Lila Rose and her stance against abortion, critiquing her characterization of motherhood as a battleground against societal oppression.

Notable Quote:

• [72:10] Lila Rose: "The war on motherhood and children is a war on civilization itself. And abortion is its most brutal weapon."

Key Points:

• Rose's rhetoric is seen as demonizing alternative views on motherhood and reproductive rights.
• The hosts argue that true pro-family policies should focus on economic and healthcare support rather than enforcing traditional roles.
• They draw attention to systemic issues that impede family well-being, such as unaffordable healthcare and labor exploitation, contrasting these with TPUSA's narrow focus on cultural and moral issues.

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Conclusion: Challenging Narratives and Advocating for Authentic Support

Tim and April conclude the episode by reaffirming their stance against the oppressive narratives presented by TPUSA and similar organizations. They call for a broader, more inclusive approach to supporting families and empowering women to pursue diverse life paths without societal constraints.

Final Thoughts:

• The hosts emphasize the importance of authentic empathy, comprehensive support systems, and dismantling oppressive structures that limit individual choices.
• They advocate for policies that address economic disparities, healthcare access, and true gender equality as foundations for a healthy society.

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Note: Advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content sections have been excluded to focus solely on the substantive discussions and critiques presented in this episode.

Transcript

[April]

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[Tim]

I'm Tim.

[April]

Like how I jumped right in there.

[Tim]

I love that. Way to take charge. I like that, April.

[April]

That's right.

[Tim]

However, however, the people in our clip, the clips that we're gonna play, do not like an assertive, confident woman who just takes charge, especially over a man. So sure.

[April]

Maybe. Maybe that's why I did it. Maybe that's why.

[Tim]

Oh, boy. Hello, friends. Welcome in. Welcome to the Tim and April Show. We go live every Thursday at 12 Eastern and we drop an episode that's prerecorded every Monday, both on podcast and on YouTube. We have a very fun episode today. We're. Look, we're in summer mode, April, okay? Our kids are home from school. We're trying to survive as humans. It's 100 degrees outside in June in New Jersey right now, which is unprecedented.

[April]

What?

[Tim]

It's very crazy. It is so humid. What?

[April]

You're sounding woke. Climate change is a hoax.

[Tim]

No, you're right. You're right. It has nothing to do with the climate changing. It's just one of those weird days in New Jersey where it's 100 degrees.

[April]

Anything?

[Tim]

Just 100% humidity. Yeah, just a coinky dink. Yep, definitely. So we figured today. I'm not sure if. If you dear audience knew this, but Turning Point usa, a wonderful organ. I can't even say that with a straight face. An organization that pushes Christian nationalist nonsense. An organization that I track personally very closely. I've been to a lot of their events. They had their annual Young Women's Leadership Summit, or YWLS for short. And April has pulled some clips that we're Gonna watch and respond to today and we got some doozies.

[April]

Gonna be so fun. And you haven't seen a lot of them, so it's gonna be blind reacting to some of these. I wish the podcast people. If you're listening on podcast, you're going to be at a slight, not a disadvantage because you're. You're still going to hear the cringe. But this is an experience. To just visualize what a lot of these women are wearing. It's like flower power, baby.

[Tim]

You know, I try and really temper myself when it comes to judging how people look, especially with who I am as a person. You know, I don't want to come across as unintentionally misogynistic or sexist or something. But I will say, as I was watching these clips, I was like, I don't. I'm just. I mean, I'm not a fashionable person at all, but some of these outfits are just. They're. They're way over the top, in my opinion. It's a very specific look.

[April]

Right. We're gonna all about people dressing how they want to dress there. Actually, let's. Can we just start off. Let's just talk about the giant pink elephant in the room. There's the one that says. Okay. It is titled Erica Kirk, welcome to the war. Do you see that one?

[Tim]

Oh, I got that. Oh, my goodness.

[April]

Let's just kick it off. This is Erica Kirk, who is Charlie Kirk's wife. So why is there.

[Tim]

Is there a stuffed animal on the podium? Do you see that little. That little bear thing? Yeah. What is going on?

[April]

I don't know. I didn't watch her whole speech because I. I care about myself and my well being.

[Tim]

Yeah. Your mental health. Yeah.

[April]

So this. This.

[Tim]

I.

[April]

How. Okay. She looks like she's wearing something from District 1, the Capitol and the Hunger Games. Like, this screams flower power.

[Tim]

Is it. Is it this one? Yeah. There you go.

[April]

Yes. She looks like she's about to call Katniss Evergreen.

[Tim]

There is a vibe connection there for sure.

[April]

Yeah, yeah, though. But the.

[Tim]

The.

[April]

This is why, honestly, it's less about what she's wearing. It's. It's the combination of what she's wearing and what she's saying. Okay. That make it. It's just very funny. I don't know. I laughed. I laughed. It's just a contrast because what she's saying does not match the. The flower frills like the curtains she decided to drape around herself.

[Tim]

Yeah. I mean, she definitely is maximizing American femininity to the max. Right? Like, she. Is that a fair way of putting it? Right? Because she just looks like. Like she has that vibe of, like, I'm a woman. I had the look.

[April]

Right? It's. It's. Honestly, it's this outfit in particular. I don't. She's so serious when she talks, and it's like, are you wearing.

[Tim]

Do you want me to play this?

[April]

Yeah, just play it.

[Tim]

All right, here we go.

[Erica Kirk]

Here to say welcome to the spiritual war. If you're not aware of it, put on the armor, stand your post. You're a woman of the word. And when you feel isolated or unseen, go back to that blueprint. Ruth, Deborah, Hannah, Esther, Mother Mary, any of them. Go back to the blueprint. Fix your eyes on Christ. Because this is not for the faint of hearts, this spiritual battle.

[April]

She should have just, like, imagine her just saying, instead of, welcome to the spiritual war.

[Tim]

Yeah.

[April]

She says, welcome to the Hunger Games while wearing that.

[Tim]

Like, I mean, some of the. Also some of the names that she cites in the Bible, like. Like Ruth and Esther. Didn't Esther go in front of the king to try and free her people, like, the most marginalized in society? Like, didn't she stand up to Empire instead of being a spokesperson for Empire?

[April]

She did. Yeah.

[Tim]

And. And listen, I'm not a Bible scholar, and I know Kip Davis watches these videos, so correct me, Kip, if you're watching this, but didn't Ruth, like, sleep with someone before she got married to the person as, like, an act of, like, I don't know, defiance or something? Like, wasn't there, like, premarital sex or some kind of risque action involved with. With. With Ruth? Is it Ruth and Boaz? Isn't that the story in the Bible? I'm just saying, like, some of these biblical characters kind of betray the whole narrative that these turning point women try to present themselves as, you know, being these. Like, save yourself for marriage and be a woman of the word. Because culture war stuff, it doesn't. I don't really know, like, what to do with that. It. It's. It's just interesting.

[April]

It's also just annoying, too, that women can only be women in the Bible. Like, we could not emulate anybody else. It's got to be Hannah, Ruth, or Esther. And then she says, and look to Christ, like, what if I just want to emulate Christ and not all the women?

[Tim]

Well, she also says, mother Mary, who. Whose claim was that God impregnated me when I wasn't married? I'm just saying, like. Like some of these stories are incredibly scandalous in the Bible. And it's just really interesting watching Erica cite these women as people to look up to, but her ideals that she would espouse would actually be calling those women, you know, loose or woke or, you know, Marxist. It's just that, that. That's the irony about this, right, is that these people, like, they just say these words like Michael Scott declaring bankruptcy in the office, but there's no meaning behind them. They're just in. They're in service to culture war ideology, even if they don't actually add up or, or, or, or are being factual to what the text that they're claiming is actually trying to say. Duh.

[April]

Well, and the way, like, the, the whole spiritual war, welcome to the battle, it's not for the faint of hearts. Like, they make themselves out to sound so tough and like they are actually on the front lines of some sort of war while dressed like that. Well, and I don't know how much money Erica and Charlie have, but I would imagine it's quite a bit of money. They are living a very comfortable life to come up there and act like they're being persecuted and that they are somehow like that they're. That they have anything that they need to fight for, for themselves, like, like that their rights are being taken away and that they're losing the culture. And it's just so dramatic. All. It's all so dramatic and just untrue. There's no Christian persecution in America.

[Tim]

Yeah. So Charlie Kirk's net worth is not public, but a lot of people, you know, would say he's worth a couple million dollars, probably, which, which would make sense because Turning Point USA does $80 million a year in funding. He sold a lot of books. He has speak here. I'm sure he. He charges a fee to speak, so he's probably worth a good chunk of change. And this is one of the big gripes I have with, with, with the people in this space who, to your point, April, are like, making these claims about being in a war and how tough it is. Like, you have a nanny, you have security around you. You don't. You're not worried about. About. About covering the cost of any unexpected health care bills. Like, people drive you around. It's really easy to say all this when all of your needs are taken care of and your husband runs an organization that is so powerful, it helps shape elections, and he has the number of the current president on speed dial. Like, wow, you really are oppressed in this country, aren't you? You're so close to power, and you really think that you're in some kind of battle. It's unbelievable. It is shocking. Like, wow.

[April]

It's. Well, you want to watch a few more clips?

[Tim]

Yeah, we're just getting warmed up. All right. Which one do I go to next?

[April]

Did we already say? This is from the women's summit that they had. What was it, week ago, two weeks ago?

[Tim]

Weeks ago, yeah, it was sometime over the summer. You pulled a bunch. Do you want to go to Ali Stuckey next? We can. We could do more.

[April]

Erica. Yeah, there was a. I mean, there. Just. Just go down the list.

[Tim]

You know, let's go to Erica and knock out a few more of these. Here's one. You call this one Motherhood over career.

[April]

Here we go.

[Tim]

Let's see.

[Erica Kirk]

Everything changes. When I met Charlie, that was it. I could care less about the career. It was. It was a beautiful moment. And that's why I just want to plant the seed of encouragement, because motherhood is. It's not a pause. A lot of people think it's a pause in your life. It's a launch pad. It's not something where you feel like, you know, you wasted your degree. You're not wasting a degree when you're raising your children with wisdom, love, and truth.

[April]

That's.

[Erica Kirk]

That's not wasting a degree at all.

[April]

I remember when I was a new mom after I had my oldest daughter, and actually, we're recording this on her ninth birthday, so it's been. I've been a mom for nine years. Yeah.

[Tim]

Congratulations. She's so cute, by the way. Both. Both her daughters are adorable.

[April]

Thank you. They. I. I mean, I. I would agree with that, but I'm biased, but I remember feeling like I completely lost myself, and I had an identity crisis. And I loved being a mom. I, like my. My kid. My kids became my entire world. But it was a pause. I. I stopped working. Like, we were fortunate enough that we made. We made ends meet. My Beecher's salary, and I stayed home while they were little. But I. It was really hard. Like, I was. I felt like I had lost who I was. I felt like my entire identity was in my children, and I didn't. I was unfulfilled. And then I felt guilty about feeling unfulfilled because of rhetoric like what Erica was just talking about, that. It's not a pause. It's the most beautiful thing you could ever do. And I remember after I kind of came out of the fog, I was kind of pissed because I. From a young Age like as far back as I can remember growing up in this world because I grew up in here in these exact same lectures and speeches, same. As far back as I can remember, it was that my entire purpose would be in being a mom. And that once I became a mom, I wouldn't want anything else. And then I felt guilty because I did want other things. I loved being a mom. And I also wanted to do what I was good at with, with my other talents and, and, and, and do all this stuff. And I remember being so mad because no one ever once told me how hard motherhood is and how it just sucks your life force out of you. Where you become, your needs no longer matter. You're once no longer matter. You become basically a doormat for everybody else. And I was willing to do that, but it sucked a lot of the time. I didn't get to do anything fun for a, for a very, very long time. And that, that really does take a toll. And I don't think it's doing anybody any favors by one glamorizing motherhood. Like, it's just this like, flowery picture perfect. You come down the stairs, your baby is smiling and your baby. And your baby sleeps. My children did not sleep. I was a walking zombie for a solid year. Like, honestly, I'm still annoyed, annoyed by it all because I, I didn't get that rosy picture perfect idea of what I thought motherhood was. And when I wasn't enjoying it, I felt so much guilt over that.

[Tim]

Yeah. Yep. I mean, Sarah and I had the same exact conversations to a T. Because you're right. I mean, I, she, she has told me this. Like, she feels like she's lost herself. Of course. And look, there, there's always the foundation, right, of. We love our kids. I love being a dad. She loves being a mom. But there's a real cost, especially for women. Right? Because why is it acceptable that I should have other passions and careers and love my kids, but my partner should only find her fulfillment? And being this mother all the time, 24 7. Like, why is that? Doesn't make any sense. Because Sarah's also a human with other desires beyond just being a mom. But for some reason, she has to be a mom only and a good wife to me, of course. But I can have a career and I can do things online. That's my passion. Plus I'm a good dad. As if, like, I can hold space for both, but my, my partner can't. I think the other thing too is that look, and we, we don't talk about this nearly enough. We live in a hyper individualistic culture and I am of the opinion that we are not meant to raise children alone in nuclear families. Especially in a system where people can't make ends meet working two full time jobs. Three full time jobs sometimes, right? How do you expect one person to make enough money in America right now when everything is so expensive and so unaffordable? Debt is rising. We can't get affordable health care. You expect that the average American who works a full time job will get enough money to cover expenses for them, their partner, and one to three kids and everything is just hunky dory? Are you joking? Like, unless you're, you're in the upper class like Erica and Charlie, where you have all this money and you have people who can help you, it's, it's unattainable. And then we're not taught to be in community with each other. Right. So we don't know how to like, you know, help people with their kids at times. A lot of people don't have family around. We're fortunate to. Sarah's parents are around and so are my parents. They'll watch the kids for us for a weekend so we can get that time. But a lot of people don't have that, that, that, that of. They, they, they don't, they don't have that luxury. And I just find it so ridiculous to over romanticize parenthood, especially motherhood, as just something that will complete you one day. Like, that's just not how it works. Like I'm it. It's almost kind of like the lie of if you save yourself for marriage, you're guaranteed to have the best sex of your life forever.

[April]

Yeah.

[Tim]

And like, you know. Yeah. Like me and Sarah did that. We saved ourselves, right? And like after we had sex, we were like, wow, that was really great. But I didn't feel like, oh my God, I'm, I'm like magically fulfilled now. Like, I don't know how I survive without it. It wasn't that at all. And it's so aggravating to watch these people sell this mirage to young women in particular who are taught this stuff and are given like ridiculous odds at not being able to do what they're saying you need to do. Um, it's just, it's, it's wild to me. It's wild.

[April]

Yeah. And I remember too, like, I would be so tired and I would. Like, it is a weird thing because I do love, like, I do love being a mom and I loved my Kids, like. Like. And I feel like you have to give that caveat because there's such so much judgment for moms.

[Tim]

Yeah.

[April]

Especially from other moms, too. Like, if you complain, they're like, somehow you're a terrible mom because you're admitting you're not enjoying your life. But I remember I would be talking to, like, my, you know, like, other moms in my family about how hard it was, and they all just laughed. Like it was just my turn to pay the piper, you know? And, like, they all knew the whole time, and I was pissed. I was like, you knew it was this hard, and y' all never told me. Like, I didn't know what I was getting myself into. I really was shocked at how hard it was. I was not prepared at all, for sure.

[Tim]

Watching my. Watching Sarah try to breastfeed for the first time, you know, having troubles with that. Like, there's just so many things. Totally. I mean, watching Sarah give birth, I was. I was like, oh, my God, like, women do this regularly. Like. Like, this just happens. Like, it's. And I thought, why does our society denigrate women as, like, weak creatures when, like, they're birthing children? Like, it was. It blew my mind. Right. Yeah. And I'm with you. Like, watching Sarah go through a lot of those things and watching her, you know, go through postpartum, you know, all those things, like, it takes a real toll. And then you're just expected to, like, always be mentally present all the time for your kids and then somehow also satisfy all the needs of your husband whenever he needs them satisfied and clean and cook and do this and do that. It's like, any sense. The math ain't mathing. You know, this dream that they sell is, quite literally, for some people, not a dream. And that's assuming, April, that you have a good partner in your life. Right. We're fortunate. We both have great spouses that, like, are supportive and, like, you know, vice versa. But a lot of folks don't have that luxury. Some are single moms. Some have partners who are totally checked out. Yeah. Anyway.

[April]

And it's also. It's also really dismissive of women who are infertile or have fertility. Fertility issues. Like, right. Then you have women who feel like they cannot fulfill their call as a woman and for no fault of their own. And that can lead to, like, deep depression and more judgment. It's just. It's just so judgmental, the whole. The whole thing. But it's. It's wrapped in this idea of, like, oh, no, we're the ones who love family values by enforcing motherhood on everybody.

[Tim]

Right.

[April]

But that's like, there's some people that just don't want to be moms, and that's fine. That's great.

[Tim]

And that's all we're saying, by the way. We're not saying you shouldn't have kids or you should have kids. We're simply saying people should have the option to do with their life what they want. And some people want to have a family and some don't. And either way, that's fine. That's fine. You know, women are more than capable of doing all kinds of things, not just having babies. And that's. That's great. That's great. But for this world because of how they see Genesis 1 and 2 and the Bible and the order of creation and this, like, weird. Know how God has structured society. They believe that women have to fit into this mold of, like, housekeeper and just essentially breeder in a lot of ways. Just pop out the kids. And it is just really unhealthy in so many ways.

[April]

Yeah.

[Tim]

All right.

[April]

Shall we move on to another one?

[Tim]

Sure, sure. You want to. You want to go over to. You want to get real angry and watch Ali be sucky?

[April]

Let's do it.

[Tim]

Yeah, let's do it.

[April]

Yeah.

[Tim]

I just did a video responding to her take on immigration over on the New Evangelicals, and, man, she is. Her and Matt. Matt Walsh are probably the top two. For me that just drive me absolutely bonkers with how they talk. It just. It drives me bonkers. All right, here's Ali sucky. Let's hear what she has to say.

[April]

Here's how you know if your empathy is positive or if it has become toxic. Three ways your empathy becomes toxic when it encourages you to validate lies, to affirm sin, or to support destructive.

[Tim]

Can we pause? Wait, can we play it back? Can I just restart that so we. I want to try to not misunderstand what she just said. Let's just back that up. Okay, one more time.

[April]

If it has become toxic, here's how you know if your empathy is positive or if it has become toxic. Three ways your empathy becomes toxic when it encourages you to validate lies, to affirm, sin, or to support destructive politics. I feel like we should be holding up a mirror.

[Tim]

Yeah.

[April]

Ally, you've just described the entire MAGA.

[Tim]

Movement, like, to a table. Yes. Lies.

[April]

Like Donald Trump lies every single day.

[Tim]

Like, like. Like the lie that the 2020 election was stolen. That lie.

[April]

Yeah.

[Tim]

Destructive policies like kidnapping parents, destroying their families, shipping them off to countries that they shouldn't be shipped off to for no reason.

[April]

How about bombing countries without congressional approval?

[Tim]

Yeah, yeah. How about inciting your own followers to, to try and hang the vice president via an insurrection?

[April]

How about affirming the sin of idolatry? Like all these people that worship Donald Trump as some sort of savior.

[Tim]

And greed. The sin of greed.

[April]

Yeah.

[Tim]

The sin of, of pride and envy and conceit. Okay, wow, Ali. Yeah. Yeah, you know what, Ali? I agree. Ali and I agree on this.

[April]

So far so good. That's when I'll applaud. Your empathy has turned toxic. Toxic empathy is the primary tool of persuasion used by progressives to manipulate well meaning Christians. Ally. Progressives can be used toxic empathy by employing. I hate the whole idea that they can stay like they cannot admit that progressives are also Christian.

[Tim]

They, you, you literally have to, have to deny so much of like American Christianity and really even historical Christianity because for them progressive is social justice oriented. You know, you're thinking about, about wealth redistribution from the ultra rich. Those are very classic Christian ideals beyond the American political system of, of, of left and right. Like, I hate to break it to Ali, even the Bible, I mean, James 5, right, this scathing critique saying woe to you rich people who hoard wealth. Judgment is coming to you because you don't pay your workers a fair wage. You steal from them. This is like biblical. But for Ally, that's just woke progressive ideology that leads to toxic empathy. All right, let's finish our clip here.

[April]

They use toxic empathy by employing our language, our Bible verses, our concepts, and then pervert them to morally extort us into adopting their position.

[Tim]

You know what's interesting about this clip? She uses the word our, Our Bible, our verses, as if she's the only. Her and her tribe are the true Christians. And everyone outside of her bubble and her tribe, they're not real Christians. So they're hijacking her text, they're hijacking her beliefs, they're hijacking her Bible. Right? What? I mean, if that's not the, the, the textbook, you know, colonization or colonized attitude. Yeah, that everything is mine in ours. You know, my tribe.

[April]

Ally, we use your language and your Bible because it's our Bible too. Geez Louise. I like, I liked her outfit. Her outfit was less Hunger Games and more like, yeah, Mother's Day brunch.

[Tim]

This looks like a. I mean, I, I don't want to make anyone upset, but this is no shade. It's real. Looks like a nice target outfit.

[April]

I wouldn't I think it's nicer than Target.

[Tim]

Oh, no. I don't know. I think Target is fashionable. What do I know? Yeah.

[April]

I mean, it is. It is. Yeah. I could see it. Yeah, maybe.

[Tim]

Maybe Coles Kohl's is Kohl's higher grade.

[April]

I don't know. I. I just feel like. I don't know that. I feel like Ali Beth has boycotted Target since the. The bathroom bill in, like, 2014 or whatever that was.

[Tim]

I'm just saying, though, I could see someone be like, oh, thanks. I got this at, you know, department retailer. Okay, cool. Yeah, it looks good.

[April]

Yeah, it's fine. There's nothing necessarily weird about the outfit. Just wanted to say, so I went hard on the other one, but I feel like the other one deserved it, so.

[Tim]

Okay, man, this is all in one event, right? What else? We have so many clips. You want to go, oh, okay. You know what? Let's do this one. Let's do Rather games. I haven't seen this one.

[April]

Okay.

[Tim]

I got. I gotta say. Okay, you. You. You go first. You go first.

[April]

I was going to say, if you don't know, she got into some beef with Simone Biles on Twitter, and that's what she's referencing here. Simone called her out for being transphobic and hateful and had some kind of snarky comments that were a little rude. But honestly, Riley is awful. And Riley, she could deserve to be knocked down a couple notches. She's. She's terrible. Like, honestly, out of all, I can't stand a lot of these women. She's one of the ones at the top of the list. Like her vendetta against trans people because she tied for fifth place once.

[Tim]

Yup.

[April]

Is seriously so wild.

[Tim]

Riley is the epitome of maga. MAGA victimization. She runs around parading herself as a victim of the, quote, trans agenda when she tied fifth place with Lia Thomas, a trans woman who's also a swimmer. And she has made a lucrative, lucrative career out of that victimhood complex that she tied for. Friends. I'm not exaggerating. Not. She didn't tie third, second, first. Which, either way, who cares? She tied for fifth. And she parades herself around as the world's biggest victim of women or trans women in sports. It is. And she is so brutal online. She is so cruel. Simone Bile. Simone, by the way, she apologized on Twitter and for her comments. And MAGA was like, no way. We're not accepting it. Absolutely not. Which is so typical, right? MAGA people like Riley, like Ali, like Megan Basham, they will hurl insults at their enemies all day. They will. They will never accept responsibility for what they say as being hurtful. Right. But the second their political opponent does acknowledge that what they said was hurtful, they only pile on. You know, there's no winning with them because they're not. They're not here in good faith. So anyway, that. That is the preface for this. Yeah.

[April]

If I'm remembering correctly, this whole thing started because Riley Gaines, quote, tweeted, I think it was a high school softball team of minors that had a trans girl on the team and was just bullying the high school team. And of course, she's got a lot of followers on Twitter, so her whole mob is going and just attacking this random high school and high school girls. And Simone was defending the team because she was literally going after children at that point.

[Tim]

By the way, it looks like Simone deleted her. Her ex account.

[April]

Really?

[Tim]

That's what this says? According to the. The New York Post. Yeah. Yep. And. And Riley tweeted it and went and made a comment. Made another job at her after doing that. It's just. It's. Oh, God, insufferable.

[April]

Anyway, okay, anyway, let's just watch the stupid clip.

[Tim]

That's the wrong one. Here we go. This is two and a half minutes long. Jesus.

[Riley Gaines]

But that wasn't enough.

[April]

Just pause, Simone. Just pause.

[Riley Gaines]

She went on.

[April]

Not only has she tweeted about this endlessly, but she gets one speech that she's a. She is a speaker at this conference and she uses it to air her own personal vendetta against Simone Biles.

[Tim]

They are so childish.

[April]

Yes. I mean, by bully someone your own.

[Riley Gaines]

Size, which would ironically be a man. Couple things, really. This. This made me chuckle. If you will. If you will. Almost ironically, for three main reasons. Number one, she was admitting. I don't know if she realized this is what she was doing. She was admitting that men and women are physically, biologically and categorically different. By that statement, again, don't know if she realized that. Number two, this is a woman who has faced severe scrutiny because of her body, because of her muscular stature. Of course, she's someone who. I mean, her career, what she's been able to do, all that she has accomplished is illustrious, to say the least. The best of the best. She's in a league of her own, bar none. And none of her comments take anything away from that. But if anyone would understand what it's like. Maybe she was calling me muscular. If anyone would. Would understand what it's like to be muscular, you would Imagine it would be Simone Biles. No, Maybe she was saying I'm tall.

[Tim]

Why are we talking about this?

[April]

5. So stupid. You will not guess how this clip ends.

[Tim]

Okay, just gonna say that I don't know where she's going. I'm like, why are you talking about this? Like this sounds like. This sounds like. Like you should be at coffee with a girlfriend talking about this. You know, but instead you're in front of all these people. All right, let's see.

[Riley Gaines]

For women.

[April]

But.

[Riley Gaines]

But I think the funniest thing about this to me and her saying, bully someone your own size, which would ironically be a man. How many men do you know that have this?

[Tim]

She announced that she's pregnant.

[April]

She just pulled out sonogram pictures from an ultrasound and is announcing she's pregnant. Can you just imagine she just attacked Simone Biles and went on a tirade about trans people in sports. Because that's her whole thing. I mean, she didn't say it explicitly, but that's what she's saying. And she used that to announce her pregnancy. Can you just imagine when that kid gets older? Like, mommy, when did you. How did you publicly announce when you were pregnant with me? It's like, well, honey, I went after Simone Biles and trans people.

[Tim]

I went after one of the most decorated Olympians of maybe human. Maybe in human history. And I tied fifth place with a trans person. And that was my vendetta. And I announced that I was pregnant. Tada.

[April]

Insufferable. It's just inseparable. And congrats on your baby.

[Tim]

Sure. For sure.

[April]

But man, I just.

[Tim]

There's more to this clip. Should I keep going or is. Is that it?

[April]

I don't remember where she goes from here, but she. Let's see.

[Tim]

Everyone's cheering.

[April]

Get all the MAGA hats. Gross.

[Tim]

I know. So wild.

[Riley Gaines]

Oh, my goodness.

[April]

She'S crying.

[Tim]

So clapping. Okay, she's crying.

[Riley Gaines]

This has been the hardest secret in the world for me to keep. And of course, I can't help but find myself just overly emotional. Just, of course, so excited for what this means for the future. Seeing all of you here understanding that you're fighting for our child's future.

[Tim]

Very nice.

[April]

Yeah.

[Tim]

Also, you know, I. Yeah. You know what? I'm just gonna move on because I've. I could be there all day talking about that situation. Gosh.

[April]

Her outfit, I would say, also could live in District 1.

[Tim]

No, I would agree. I would agree with that. Yeah. Not that I know anything about this.

[April]

But that's what we're. I'm just going to base. I'm going to judge all these outfits on whether or not it would be in District 1 of the Hunger Games or not.

[Tim]

Have you heard that empathy is now a sin? Yeah. If that's the case, then let's sin boldly, friends. Because if loving your neighbor, caring for the oppressed, and fighting for human dignity makes us part of the dangerous woke mob, then we hear the new evangelicals are guilty as charged. We're out here standing with our queer neighbors, calling out inhumane deportations, naming the evils of fascism, and yeah, believing in fundamental human rights for everybody, no matter their race, gender, identity or ability. We believe this not because we're politically partisan, but because of our allegiance to the radical way of Jesus. And this rebel cause of radical empathy runs on support. Support from dangerously empathetic people like you. As a nonprofit, we here at TNE keep all of our content resources and our community app TNE Connect Completely Paywall free. But in order to keep this work going, we need your help. That's why we're asking a thousand of you to become monthly donors. $10 a month is all it takes to help us keep producing content, and it will also enable us to add new content creators to our platform, educating you on Christian nationalism and helping you find a better path forward in faith, politics and culture. When you donate, you'll be entered to win heavenly rewards for your empathy, crimes like books, to expand your heresy merch like this, and even a chance to be on our podcast. Your donation funds a joyful rebellion with diverse voices, a community space away from the algorithm, and helps spread a better path forward in faith, politics and culture. So join us Donate now and confess your sins of empathy on our donor wall so you can tell the whole world about your depraved actions and let's build something better together. Link is in the show Notes.

[Tom]

My name is Tom, I live in the San Francisco Bay Area and I donate to the New Evangelicals. The Pentecostal Christian fundamentalism of my childhood insisted that I could not be both gay and Christian. For over a year and a half, I participated in an Ex Gay Live in program that tried to rid me of my gayness. I left the group as a gay man and rejected my Christianity. But in time, I could no more stop being Christian than I could stop being gay. The Jesus heart drew me back to Christian story and symbol. Embarrassingly, not until my mid-40s did the blatant obviousness of it all speak to my heart as if from a burning bush. I get to decide if I'M a follower of Jesus. No one else gets to decide that. For me, that realization was my true born again experience. The new evangelicals welcomes all seekers and they welcome questions. The fundamentalist idolatry of right belief and its arrogant adherence to a creed frozen in time eclipse the true Christian message. I support the new evangelicals because they understand that.

[Tim]

Who do you want to go to next? There's some more Erica clips. There's Charlie Kirk clips. I guess Charlie spoke to the crowd.

[April]

Charlie did. Charlie, I think, was the sole male. Well, of course had a speaking role, which is opposite of what they want. Actually.

[Tim]

You want to do this one of him talking about the Mrs. Degree.

[April]

Oh, gosh, yeah, the MRI degree.

[Tim]

This one went a little viral. All right, here we go.

[April]

Hi, Charlie, I'm addie and I'm 14.

[Riley Gaines]

I'm a freshman in high school.

[Tim]

And I was wondering, as someone who.

[Riley Gaines]

Has like a different opinion on college, what would you say the pros and cons are?

[April]

Because I'm interested in political journalism. And what would your advice be?

[Charlie Kirk]

Yes. So let me also speak to some of the young ladies here in high school where your top. If you're. Who's here where your top priority. Your top priority is get married and have kids, raise your hand. Okay. Interestingly, I think there is an argument to bring back the Mrs. Degree and. No, seriously. And just be clear. That's why you're going to college, right? Don't lie to yourself. Like, don't. Like, I'm going. I'm studying sociology. No, you're not. We know why you're here. That's okay. Actually.

[Tim]

Is he saying that you should go to college to get a real degree in MRS, like a Mrs. Degree? Is that what he's saying?

[April]

I mean, yes, but that's not a real degree. That's not a real degree and that still exists. Like, I don't know why he's saying bring it back. There are still, especially in Christian colleges. There are plenty of girls that are going there. Just.

[Tim]

And then he's telling this 14 year old girl who says that she wants to go to college for political science that she's really going there just to find a partner.

[April]

Yes, that. That is what.

[Tim]

Okay, wow.

[April]

I mean, to his. I guess her. She did raise her hand when he asked if that's your number one goal is to have a wife and a husband and children.

[Tim]

Gosh. Okay.

[Charlie Kirk]

And that's a really good reason to go to college, actually. Especially an SEC school like you. You will find a husband, especially sec. If you have the what? Is to find a husband at home.

[April]

The Southeastern Conference.

[Tim]

I, I don't know what that is.

[April]

Football. You don't watch college football?

[Tim]

No.

[April]

Alabama?

[Tim]

No. That's not a thing. In the Northeast we don't. It's not a thing at all.

[April]

Okay, but you, but people in the Northeast at least know the sec. I didn't go to college football conference. Okay, you don't have to go to college to know the sec.

[Tim]

Well, I know now, so Charlie's saying if you go to an SEC school, you're guaranteed to find a partner. And that's one of the best reasons to go to college. That feels like a really expensive way to find a, A husband.

[April]

Yeah, seems like a lot of. I mean, I'm surprised he said SEC school though, and not some Christian.

[Tim]

Well, I'm just saying, like pragmatically spend, you know, you can spend like maybe 500 bucks on, on Tinder, whatever, plus or double plus or something as opposed to like $30,000 a year for a college degree just to find a husband. I'm just throwing it out there.

[April]

Also, there's zero guarantee you're going to find a husband. I didn't, I didn't get married. I didn't find anybody in my undergrad. I met Beecher in grad school. That's even like extra, extra money that I had to spend.

[Tim]

So colleges, according to Charlie, because he wrote a book on this called Colleges is a Scam. But also you should go to college to find a husband because you're guaranteed to find one, especially if you go to an SEC school. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

[Charlie Kirk]

Like it's just going to happen. Okay. Or wherever. Yeah, there you go. See? Or at University of Alabama and. But there you go. But I always laugh because. And by the way, we should bring back the celebration of the Mrs. Degree, which is no serious. I mean, if you think about it like I say, college is a scam, but if you're going to find your life partner like that. So it's not a scam reason to go to college. You have a bunch of people that are single. You know, they're at the prime of their, you know, let's just say attractiveness. The dating pool is as robust as you ever find it. They all live together over a four year period. Like you don't get much better than that. Okay. It doesn't get better after college there. And so, yeah, you could go learn some stuff. That's fine, I guess, or whatever.

[Tim]

Don't listen to your presence. How does this guy have so much influence in politics when he's so foolish. That's as incoherent as a statement that Trump would make. What is this guy talking about?

[April]

Go to college but don't listen to your professors? I guess do a little learning. Yeah, but really, partner.

[Tim]

Yeah, but you're going. What? What? I mean, if Charlie just tell her to go to a good church. I just play the typical Christian line here. That makes more sense than what you just said about college. Like what are you doing? Wow. Wow. Haha.

[Charlie Kirk]

That actually was the reason why a lot of women went to College in the 70s, 80s and 90s and it worked for a. Marriage rates have plummeted since. What?

[Tim]

That. That isn't the main. During when the feminist movement really exploded, especially in the 60s, 70s and 80s, women were going to get educated. They were going to be educated, Charlie. Not. Not to find a husband primarily. I mean, if it works out, great. But usually, I don't know, you go to college to learn stuff from professors who know stuff. God, I don't know what to do with that, April.

[April]

So misogynistic, the idea that. Did he go and talk to all those women's in the 70s, 80s and 90s and ask them what was your main reason going to college? This they would not say Mrs. Degree. I mean, maybe some of them would. I definitely knew girls the Christian colleges I went to who were there to find a husband. But most of the girls that I knew were. Were very serious about getting their degree and starting a career. As I was like, it's so. I will say though, that that rhetoric is not new at my Christian college. There was jokes all the time from professors, from chapel speakers about how the girls were there to get Mrs. Degrees, which is just so dismissive of just women as people like we are capable of learning. And I mean, no offense to men, but I think the world would be in a much better place if women were the ones in charge.

[Tim]

Well, I'll put it this way. We've tried having men in charge for a long time and it really ain't working out. So let's, let's change it up, try it. At least something tells me that if Harris was president, we would not have bombed Iran a week or two ago. I'm just saying, like, chances are we probably would not have dropped bombs on another sovereign nation.

[April]

I think you're right.

[Tim]

I'm no expert.

[April]

Yeah, no expert, but you know, you just never know.

[Tim]

This is a longer clip you have of Charlie talking about immigration. Want to do that one?

[April]

Yeah. Actually, I think this one's gonna rile you up.

[Tim]

Oh, boy. Okay.

[Erica Kirk]

I'm from Austin, Texas, and I wanted to say I'm very excited to be here. I have, I need, I guess, advice and a question on if you know people, Christians specifically in your life, who say you're unchristian, like, or not a Christian, if you don't agree with what's going on with the immigration or illegal immigrants, and they use Leviticus 19, 33, 34 as their argument to say you're unchristlike if you believe that illegal immigrants should be deported, what would you say to that?

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, first of all, let's see how much they actually believe the Bible. So say, oh, you want to talk about Leviticus 19? Do you know that in Leviticus 18 it says that homosexuality is wrong and that a man shall not let a man. Or.

[April]

This is so infuriating because I'm already mad. One, it's, it's the same playbook where they're like, you can't critique me even if your critique is valid, but you can't critique me unless you believe what I believe.

[Tim]

Not to mention.

[April]

2.

[Tim]

Yeah, go ahead. Sorry, go ahead. 2.

[April]

He's saying, well, if they believe that but don't believe this other verse and they interpret it the way that I interpret it, then they're cherry picking. But he's literally just admitting that he is also cherry picking. He follows the one but not the other.

[Tim]

Exactly, exactly. Like, are you kidding me? Do you hear yourself, Charlie? Also, there are dozens of other verses in the Bible that command Christians and the people of God to welcome the immigrant, welcome the stranger.

[April]

I mean, personally, I like to use Jesus own teachings where he says, I was a stranger, you did not welcome me.

[Tim]

Right?

[April]

They say, lord, when were you a stranger? We did not welcome you. I tell you this, whatever you do, to the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you do to me. That's the verse I use.

[Tim]

And what Ali Sucky would say as well. Jesus was talking about how you're supposed to treat other Christians, which I would say, you do know that most of the immigrants that are being kicked out of this country are Christian, right?

[Charlie Kirk]

I know.

[Tim]

There's an actual study that was done that most are Catholic or evangelical or not. Or, and then, then the second or the. I'm sorry, the groups are this. 54% are Catholic, 15% are non religious, and 13% are evangelical. So even if that interpretation was accurate, you're still harming your brothers and sisters.

[April]

I know.

[Tim]

Okay, we're only one we're only 30 seconds in. All right, I can do this. I can do this.

[Charlie Kirk]

Just trying to cherry pick Leviticus versus that figure.

[April]

You don't do that, Charlie.

[Tim]

No respect.

[Charlie Kirk]

But I find that. And then finally, secondly, if they're a Christian, you should answer their question. If they're not a Christian, just roll your eyes. Be like, why do you who don't believe in what I believe have to justify what I believe to you, where you're just trying to deconstruct my faith? I think it's largely a waste of time. But if it's a Christian, that means. Well, look the verse. Look this.

[April]

Okay, who? I saw someone recently that made this point. Oh, Joseph View. Do you follow? He is a Episcopal priest in Texas and he made this. This TikTok. That is so true. And I've thought about it before, but the way he worded it was great. But he basically was saying that evangelicals and maga in general, Christian nationalists. Have you heard how they accuse all the protesters of being paid, like, genuinely believe we're all being paid for protesting? And he was saying it's because they cannot fathom the idea of trying to help somebody else without any personal benefit.

[Tim]

Yep.

[April]

Like the idea of empathy, that you would speak up on behalf of someone else. Like, and he's like, why would a Christian do that? That's stupid. Like, why would you care what I do? We care because you're harming people.

[Tim]

Exactly. Exactly. And the reason why a non Christian might ask you about this is because your theology is responsible for harming maybe their neighbors. Right. The reason why Kilmar Abrego Garcia got kicked out of the country is because of Christian nationalist rhetoric like this that now has real power in politics. That's why Charlie. That's why. And what's Charlie's answer? Oh, we don't owe them an explanation. No, you do. You do. You do.

[April]

And now and suddenly he's like, why do you care what I believe? Because you're trying to shove your beliefs down everybody's throats. You're trying to legislate your own morality for everybody. You're not saying, I can't do that because it goes against my beliefs. You're literally ripping children out of their parents arms because of your beliefs. So frustrating. Sorry.

[Tim]

Continue.

[Charlie Kirk]

1933 is to love the foreigner because you were once a foreigner in their land. I think, aren't you a Christian, Charlie? Approximate approximating. So it is true throughout the Bible. The verses that are most used by pastors when it comes to immigration is about loving the foreigner and loving.

[Tim]

Okay, so really quick, even Charlie admits the Bible says that. Okay, so the Bible that Charlie claims is infallible and is the word of God and, and, and, and, you know, lights the path of the believer. He admits the Bible says those things. Now let's watch him justify why they don't apply to our current situation. Here we go.

[Charlie Kirk]

In ancient Israel, there were two different words for foreigner. I think it's like zur and mer. I could be wrong, but it basically the two. One word would mean that which assimilates and that which does not assimilate. But did you know there's an equal amount of verses that that person might not tell you? Like Deuteronomy 28. I think that's about right. Where it says, be careful who you let into your gates because they one day can become your masters. The whole idea of.

[Tim]

Hold on. That verse that he just cited has no relevance to what's happening in this country right now. Let's just start from that. Actually, let's be really clear. The Hebrew Bible in particular, in fact, the whole Bible should not be legislating or shaping American U.S. policy. Okay, let's just start with that framework. Are there maybe themes that we should consider about generosity and kindness and hospitality? For sure. Okay. And as Christians, we can advocate for those things. That's all legit. But Charlie cites that verse about warning who you let into your gates because they might become your masters. As if. Right. The immigrants in our, in our country right now are somehow like plotting to overthrow our government and be in what, like, and what? Take over and like, be in charge of who. And this, this is, this is Charlie's deeper rhetoric is that he's constantly obsessed with protecting who he thinks are the true Americans from foreign invaders. This is the language that he uses. And ultimately what it means is that white people need to remain always in charge and brown skinned people, especially foreign brown skinned people, need to stay in their place. It makes no sense. It makes absolutely no sense. It's a complete misapplication of that verse anyway. It has no bearing on what's happening in American politics. Oh, God, he's, he's just insufferable. Like, talk about cherry picking. Talk about cherry picking.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, we'll continue. Is a Christian and biblical idea. Let's look at my. One of my favorite books of the Bible, which I think is Trump's favorite book of the Bible, Nehemiah. It's all about building the wall. It's literally called. It's Build the Wall. It's the Book of Nehemiah. The entire book of Nehemiah is about building the walls, which we have, by the way, building the walls of Israel. Now, did they build the walls because they hated people outside or because they loved the holy covenant that God gave them, protected against the threat, threats outside? The whole idea, though, of expelling those in your land. It says very clear in the book of Deuteronomy that these are the guide stones of your nation if you are to move a single stone.

[Tim]

Notice how Charlie is so slick with how he. He pushes aside verses that say welcome to foreigner in the same book, by the way, and then highlights verses that. That justify his political position in America, which is such a misapplication. Again, we're not Israel. We're not. We're not the. The Hebrew people. We are not Israelites. Right. We are not in the context and culture of why those books were written at all. But Charlie can take those things and somehow apply them to American policy. But the second Christians talk about, well, the Bible does command us to welcome the foreigner. Well, we really can't take that into consideration here. Like, it's. It. It is the epitome of cherry picking. Oh, my God. Like, it's insufferable to watch him do this with such confidence and just notice.

[April]

How long it's taking him to answer this question. Because it's not an easy question. Because they have the mental gymnastics that Charlie is doing in real time right now to be like, well, at the Book of Nehemiah and. And like, literally brings up homosexuality in Leviticus, which has nothing to do with this question at all. Because there's no good answer. Because I bet deep down Charlie knows that. That the Bible wants him to welcome the immigrant.

[Tim]

Right.

[April]

Right. He's having to twist himself all up just to kind of find a biblical reason for being as inhumane as the Trump administration is being, by the way.

[Tim]

Not to mention America can figure anything it wants out, period. Yeah. If Trump wanted to carve a path for people who were here undocumented to have a pathway to some kind of legal status, they could make it happen. Obviously they can. Obviously they can, because they can find people in churches, but they don't want that. This is not about making room, which, by the way, America has plenty of room. We're the most prosperous country in the world. We have the most wealth in the world. There's plenty of resources in physical room and economic room for immigrants. In fact, immigrants, I would argue, make the country so much more beautiful and diverse and better. Okay. They don't want that, though. They want a country that is predominantly white and that is run by whiteness, the culture of whiteness and white supremacy, which is why they create. Scott Coley calls them legitimizing narratives, stories that justify. Right. Why this position is correct because it keeps us at the top of this political food chain and economic food chain. That's all this is. This is one big roundabout way of. Of trying to give this person who asked the question some kind of biblical grounds for why kidnapping people and shipping them off to countries that they don't. That. That they have no, like, connection to is somehow the biblical approach, when it's clearly not. Clearly not.

[April]

And what is so infuriating, too, is we are watching indoctrination happen in real time. I can't tell how old that girl is that asked the question, but she looks pretty young.

[Tim]

Yep.

[April]

And I remember asking similar questions when I was around her age and getting similar to, you know, roundabout, twisted answers like Charlie is giving. But it was enough for me to put my own doubts aside and keep on keeping on. You know, like if. Like, if someone. If this person, who I view as a spiritual authority is saying this and is using a Bible verse or using a book of the Bible to do it, even if it doesn't fully make sense, it was enough. I could put it back on the shelf, and I never had to think about it until faced with another predicament again. You know, like, it's. It's. So this side also screams about the left indoctrinating children, but they're the ones indoctrinating the youth. Right here.

[Tim]

We're seeing that right here.

[Charlie Kirk]

So let's kind of go through the thinking when it comes to immigration, which is very important. We are a nation, and nations are a godly ideal. We know this because in Genesis 12, Genesis 11. I'm sorry. Nimrod wanted to create a city and a tower to his own name. When you call this the Tower of Babel story. And he says, I want to have a world government.

[Tim]

That's not what he says, Charlie. God.

[Charlie Kirk]

How did God respond to that? He scattered them. This is the people and the languages. Horrible nations and border states has always been.

[Tim]

No, no. Even the way we think about nations and states today have nothing to do with how the ancient world organized. Period. Like, they are different things entirely. Oh, my God. This is horrific. This is so bad. This is so bad.

[Charlie Kirk]

You see, the Roman Empire wanted to take over the entire world. Alexander the Great wanted to take over the entire world. The idea of Boundaries and borders is actually rooted in humility that we don't run the entire planet, that we have a jurisdiction that we are.

[Tim]

But Charlie doesn't believe.

[Charlie Kirk]

Here to look after.

[Tim]

Charlie believes that America is the greatest country on earth. We have military bases all over the world. We just bombed a sovereign nation. And Charlie Kirk, by the way, the guy who literally a month ago was Talking about the D.C. warmongers who are going to drive us into chaos by bombing in the Middle east, turned around and praised Trump for bombing Iran. Right. This dude is built on supremacy. The people he hangs out with want America to continue to expand its empire. Oh, my gosh, I can't believe this guy says this stuff with a straight face. He's the. There's nothing humble or, or, you know, or, or meek about American empire and American propaganda and make America great again. It's all built on pride and arrogance and this idea that we are exceptional and the rest of the nations all suck. Oh, my goodness. Goodness gracious.

[April]

I can't decide if I think Charlie Kirk actually believes what he's saying or not. I go back and forth. There's some people that are genuine about what they say, and I think most people probably in the audience are. But like, Charlie seems really smart, you know, and he flip flops a lot when it fits.

[Tim]

Oh, so much so.

[April]

Which makes me think that I don't know that like, for one, like, he was big on the Trump, no starting, no new wars thing, and now suddenly he's pro Trump bombing Iran.

[Tim]

That's what I'm saying. I mean, we shared the tweets that. We shared the tweets last week. You can go to the new evangelicals Twitter or Threads account and see the A and B comparison from just like two months apart in April and June. It's a 180. Because for Charlie and for Christian nationalism, the only thing that matters is whatever maintains their power and control. There is no integrity here. There's no actual value here of love or justice or even truth telling. Everything is always in service to maintaining the dominant position. Right? So when it makes sense to say we don't want more wars, Trump is the. Is going to be the President of peace who's going to keep us out of the DC Elite warmongering cabinet. But when Trump bombs Iran, oh, this is great. Iran gave us no choice. We had to do it. Wait, wait, so. So the ethic isn't war or no war. The ethic is, oh, our guy did it. So it's okay now. That's the end.

[Charlie Kirk]

So now, let's go to this issue of justice and fairness. Also in Leviticus 19. It's funny, they love these. Leviticus 19. You should say, wait a second. What if I told you that in the administration of justice, you shall not favor a rich person or a poor person? That's in Leviticus 19, basically saying, justice is blind. So you should respond to your friend and say, do you believe that when we administer justice, the laws, we should not give favor to poor people because they're poor. And if they say no, then they don't believe in Leviticus 19, meaning immigration law must be enforced to everybody, regardless.

[Tim]

Notice how he weaponizes this. God damn it, Charlie. Are you going to be kidding me? Go ahead. Sorry.

[April]

The fact that he's like, we should be. No favoritism and we should be deporting people across the board, like, that's basically what he's saying, right?

[Tim]

That's what he's saying.

[April]

How does he then justify all the white Africaners that Trump just rolled out the red carpet for?

[Tim]

Totally. Or Elon Musk, who was here illegally when he first got here, working illegally. Right? Or we can even go broader. How come. How come. How come you think that Trump's conviction was a sham, then?

[April]

I don't even understand what he's making. That doesn't even make sense in the context of this conversation.

[Tim]

American justice is not blind. People, people with real power and connection to good lawyers and money, have an inherent advantage against poor people, usually. And that's why Trump is able to do what he does. Right? He's able to tie things up in court forever because he has such an army of lawyers and money behind him compared to the average Joe who could never do such a thing. Right, Charlie, you can't even apply that ideal consistently, because if you did it, it would betray the maga. It would betray maga. Why did. Why was Trump not charged criminally for the insurrection? Hmm? Like why? Why? And by the way, I need to say one thing. This whole premise is so flawed. Because, for example, the Haitian immigrants who were here legally that JD Vance said weren't here legally because we don't like how they came in through the Biden administration. That's just making things up as you go. They were here legally. Many people, including Kilmar, Abrego Garcia, was here legally. The courts knew he was here. My friend Muhammad, his family, who has a pending court case still, for nine years, they've had a pending court case with their immigrant immigration status. Just saying pending. They're here doing it the right Way they're here and I still rated their business. And then they had a court case recently, and the judge pushed their court case back another five years. I'm sorry, four years. 20, 29. There are so many people who are going through the system the right way. They're following the rules, but the rules are so screwed up. Nothing is consistent. The courts are backlogged. And again, we could fix it. The political system could look at our immigration apparatus and say, okay, how do we streamline this? How do we make it more efficient? How do we handle more cases? How do we give people better resources to do deep dives into people so we know people who were letting in, you know, have no criminal record? We could do all that. Don't forget Joe Biden tried to pass comprehensive immigration reform. And Trump called all his people in Congress and told them to kill the bill because it didn't look good for his campaign. And they did.

[April]

True.

[Tim]

So, like, this is, it's so disingenuous. They create these problems. They create a screwed up immigration system. Immigrants try and go through the right process. Asylum, refugee status, you know, visa, student visa, and Trump still kidnaps them. Trump has kidnapped students on student visas. That's legal status, Charlie. So it's not about the ideal of, oh, we have all this illegal people here. That's not the case in so many of these examples. Oh, my goodness.

[April]

And if these people are worried about the economy too, which a lot of them claim they are, I feel like it is more, makes more economical sense instead of spending the millions and millions and millions of dollars and boosting ICE's budget to deport all of these people and do all of these raids, which cost money. It costs money to deport people.

[Tim]

Right.

[April]

It would cost far less to just like accelerate their legal status and get them to be full citizens where they're paying the full amount of taxes. Or they can really embed like that's, that's more beneficial to the economy to everyone.

[Tim]

It's, it's more beneficial to employers. It's beneficial to the workers themselves. It's beneficial for the government. Yes. Legalize them. Have them pay the full amount of taxes and get the full benefits of being in the system. Right. And also, by the way, you notice how, how none of this, none of the narrative that we're seeing is about the employers and the corporations that employ these people. Right. They get off the hook scot free. They got, they, they got to pay them unfair labor, unfair wages. Most undocumented immigrants are paid a very low wage. Right. They get off scot free. Talk about justice is blind while the immigrant is the one who pays all of the cost. The system is so messed up. And Charlie is part of the reason why it is messed up. Okay, we got a minute left. Geez.

[April]

A minute left. This. This is our show.

[Charlie Kirk]

Otherwise, you do not have immigration law. Now, this might bother some people. They say, well, you know, they come into the country because they want a better life. Am I allowed to rob a bank because I'm hungry? Am I allowed to take my neighbor's stuff because I need it? No. In fact, stealing is wrong, regardless of the story that you tell yourself. We are a nation of laws because we are a Christian country that believes that the law is a teacher and a law is wrong.

[April]

Stealing is wrong no matter what story you tell yourself. What about the pilgrims that came and stole the land from indigenous people? What about the OG colonizers in the colonies?

[Tim]

What about all the legit stories that. That. That Trump's businesses don't pay their contractors or employers or employees? Hmm, interesting. Wait, we're a nation of laws. Does trying to overturn our election process count as violating such laws? How about people beating police officers with sticks? Is that part of that process? Or how about how. Here's another one. What if the current sitting president is a convicted felon on 34 counts? Are we a nation of laws, Charlie?

[April]

My, how the turntables.

[Charlie Kirk]

Civil instrument towards a free and orderly society under no biblical context. Is it God's wishes for our nation to have chaos and uneasiness or unruliness? Do you think that God smiles when 20 million people come into the country invited?

[Tim]

What?

[April]

I don't think God does anything. I don't think he's smiling.

[Tim]

I think he's just, you know, I don't think God smiles when our empire tries to overthrow other government governments, especially in the global south, destabilizing people's countries and homelands, forcing mass migrations. I don't think God smiles when we do that. This is, this is what's so infuriating. America has done so much crazy shit in other countries. I mean, crazy stuff. CIA's overthrown governments. We've destabilized entire regions. We've caused mass damage in other countries for our own economic interest, causing destabilization and like, mass migration out of countries. I don't think God smiles on that, Charlie. Like, what are you talking about, dude? And by the way, who. Who gets the call of them being uninvited? I'm certainly going to invite them. No, I welcome them. I'm an American, so maybe God does smile. Like, like, who makes the call of them being uninvited or not?

[April]

Who. I know. And honestly, call me crazy, but if I. If there's a family who's starving and they steal something from a local grocery store to feed their children, I'm not mad about that.

[Tim]

Right? Right. I do not cry when someone shoppers from Walmart. Sorry. Like the company that, that, that literally has been known to pay their employees so low of a wage that, that they bank on their employees going on government welfare to make ends meet. I'm not crying when someone steals a case of water from Walmart.

[April]

Also, Charlie, why do you care what other people do if it's their beliefs?

[Tim]

I'm just saying, like, it's so, so bad.

[April]

He said he's not, like, why do you care what I believe? And you literally care about everybody else and what they do and what they wear and their sex life. Like, literally, it's. The call is coming from inside the house, Charlie. Kirk.

[Tim]

Totally.

[Charlie Kirk]

When girls are sex trafficked across the southern border or the cartels are wreaking havoc over the border and understand there's a variety of laws that people break when they come across the southern border. 8 USC 1312, 8 USC 1325, 8 USC 1830. These are a variety of laws, not just breaking into the country. Do you know that if you come into America by federal law, you have to then tell the federal government your address within 30 days, and you have to do so every single year. And unfortunately, that is not done by a lot of people that come into America. They're in violation of law. Interesting. You should also say, well, Romans 13, we should submit to the rulers and authorities and the laws that are given. And if so, unless it's Covid. So the point being, unless it's COVID.

[Tim]

Lockdowns, then Romans 13 doesn't apply. Then it's tyranny, then it's the government.

[April]

Also Donald Trump's convictions, right?

[Tim]

Yeah, exactly. By the way, being undocumented in this country, it's about the equivalent of. Of having a traffic ticket. It's a misdemeanor. Okay.

[April]

Yeah.

[Tim]

And I'm not aware of anyone who thinks that if you speed, you should be thrown in prison or kicked out of the country. Like, this is the. It's such a false equivalence. And by the way, many immigrants who are here, even undocumented ones, do report to the government. They come in seeking asylum or they're. They're seeking a certain kind of process. Right. And. And then they're told to wait. So they do. While they're still undocumented. That's a big portion of this, you know. Okay. I'm done with Charlie. That. That. That's the end of that clip.

[April]

I. I told you that was going to rile you up.

[Tim]

Yeah. And we're overtime anyway.

[April]

I know. And there's so many other ones that. To get to that I don't even. There was one that I really wanted to talk about.

[Tim]

Oh, okay.

[April]

It could be really quick. Hold on. I got to figure out which one it was. Lila Rose. War on motherhood.

[Tim]

Okay, got it. 33 seconds. She is the founder of Live Action. Right. The. The girl.

[April]

Very anti abortion.

[Tim]

Yeah.

[April]

And pro birth. I wouldn't call her pro life, but.

[Tim]

Unless it comes to kids in Gaza, then she don't give a. Oh, well.

[April]

And a lot of other. And immigrant children, too, I will say. I. I would also put her outfit, although I think this one's kind of cute, but I would. This could also be in District 1.

[Tim]

Really? I think it's, like, has, like, a nice sundress vibe.

[April]

No, it does. But there's something really frilly on the top that I feel is a little more District 1 than the rest of the dress. Not that I'm a sudden this is suddenly a fashion show, but.

[Tim]

Fair. All right, here we go. We have been told that to be fully women, we have to be more like men. And because men never have to carry children, then we should never have to carry children either. They told us that motherhood ultimately was a form of oppression, but they are wrong. The war on motherhood and children is a war on civilization itself. And abortion is its most brutal weapon. The truth is this. The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world. Okay. Wow.

[April]

So dramatic.

[Tim]

So dramatic.

[April]

They're. They're up here. They have a whole conference, and a lot of the clips that we didn't get to are about the importance of having children. It was a big theme. They are literally telling children what to do with their life, which is to become a mom.

[Tim]

Yep.

[April]

And she's up there demonizing, saying everyone else. Everyone else in the world except for us is telling you not to become a mom. Being a mom. There's a war on motherhood. And it's just. It's so disingenuous because there is a just complete misunderstanding of what feminism is. Feminism. Or like, being a feminist is not anti motherhood. It's just pro women's choice. To be a mom or to not be a mom. Like, I Am a mom and I love my kids. There are a lot of. Of feminists and leftist women who have children and are great moms. And the idea that they somehow pit them against each other, like, you cannot be. Like, it's so annoying how conservatives feel like they have a monopoly on family and that you couldn't possibly have any sort of leftist beliefs or policies. Definitely can't be pro family. Like, they, they don't. Like, they can't coexist. They absolutely can. And in fact, like, my beliefs empower all women to either stay home or to have a career. It's just not forcing them into one or the other. And they make it out. Like, if you go to college, they're gonna be like, you need to be a man. Like, the only pressure I ever felt was I needed to be this perfect cookie cutter version of what femininity was and have children and serve my husband's needs whenever he wanted it. Like, that was taught to me from a child. That is the oppression. That's what we're saying is oppression is when you force women to do things based on the whole sole fact that they have a uterus.

[Tim]

Huh?

[April]

Like, and that's it. Like, it just. It makes women breeders instead of human beings.

[Tim]

Totally. Also, you know what's not pro family? Unaffordable health care is not pro family. Unlivable wages are not pro family. No. Paid family leave is not pro family. That's what drives me bonkers. And listen, I'm someone who marched in the pro life movement, okay? I was all about that life for a long time. But as I thought about it, especially as I saw the connection between better access to birth control and affordable wages all reduce greatly the amount of abortions that take place, I started hitting me like, wait, why aren't we advocating for these things? Like, again, I will say this till the day I die. We have the resources to make health care affordable for every single American. We have the resources to make family paid, paid family leave a thing and maternity leave a thing, and paternity leave a thing. What is pro life pro or, sorry, what is pro family? Pro family is when you have a baby and having unbridled amounts of time to bond with your baby without worrying about how you're going to make ends meet. Yeah, that's pro family. Pro family is a life where if you have a baby, mom and dad, or mom and mom or dad and whoever can sit with that family and enjoy their newborn for maybe a year or two before they worry about going back to work for some Employer to make profits off of their back while they get paid parents pennies on the dollar and while the CEO makes 400 times what the worker makes. So this is why I get so fired up, because it's actually a mirage. None of what they advocate for are pro family policies. None. Trump's big beautiful bill is not a pro family bill. These people actually hate the family. What they want is oppression. They want women, like you said, April, to be breeders. They want men to work their bodies down to the bone for someone else. And then they support a system that is built on the unaffordability and therefore the debt industry. Right. You can't afford this. Just four monthly payments. People are financing burritos now. They're financing a burrito. This is the thing, really? Yes, yes. There are these. These payment systems of like, I forgot the actual term. But essentially you can split things up into four or five interest repayments. Right. And people now can do it for grubhub. And we're heading. Our society is heading to a place where we're going to have all these monthly payments while these companies suck up more and more wealth from the middle and lower class. None of it is pro family, Charlie. None of it is. None of it is. But they're not talking about that, are they? They're. They're talking about trans people and they're talking about abortion and they're talking about the immigrant. All of which have nothing to do with the ridiculous system that's called the American economy that keeps so many people in debt and stressed out and forces women and men to have to work one or two or two and a half jobs to try and make it work, which takes them away from their family, which is not pro family, that it's. It is so ass backwards how this set up.

[April]

If they actually were pro health care or universal health care and livable wages and all of those things, the abortion rates would actually go down. You would limit the need for abortion.

[Tim]

Affordable access to affordable contraceptives would greatly reduce the amount of abortions that are happening. So again, and here's what, here's why it's so hypocritical. If they really believe. Which we would not, but they believe that every abortion is slaughtering a child. Like an actual child. Right.

[April]

Baby murder.

[Tim]

Yeah. If you actually believe that, wouldn't you do anything, wouldn't you be as pragmatic as possible to reduce the amount of abortions in this country through whatever means needed to happen, even if it went against your own moral compass? Meaning, let's Say you believe that sex shouldn't happen outside of marriage. Okay, well, people are still doing that, and people are still getting pregnant, you know, without. They're getting pregnant without it being planned. Right. So if you want to stop that from happening, giving people access to contraceptives would greatly reduce that, therefore reducing the amount of abortions, or, in their words, child murder that's taking place. But they don't want that because it's not really about that. It's just propaganda to control the bodies of other people. That's all it comes down to.

[April]

Oh, yeah. And honestly, baby murder is a very powerful tool to use to manipulate people. You know, I mean, it worked on me for the long time. The, like, the abortion issue was my one holdout of why I couldn't vote Democrat for the longest time, because I believed this sensationalized idea of what it was. I mean, it was wrong, but yeah.

[Tim]

Yeah.

[April]

All right. Well, now that you're all worked up.

[Tim]

Thanks, April.

[April]

I know we didn't even get to, like, half of the clips. I mean, they're all infuriating, though. We got the gist.

[Tim]

Well, thanks, friends, for being here. If you enjoyed the video and are ranting, give it a like, subscribe to the channel. If you're listening on podcast. Thank you so much. Please make sure to give this podcast a review and give it a rating. We go live every Thursday on YouTube and we drop episodes on YouTube and podcasts every Monday and Friday. Talk to you later, friends. See ya.

[April]

Bye.