32. Texas Tragedy, Epstein Files, & Christian Nationalists FINALLY Question Trump

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Tim & April Show Episode 32: Texas Tragedy, Epstein Files, & Christian Nationalists FINALLY Question Trump Release Date: July 11, 2025

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1. Introduction and Personal Updates [02:13 - 07:30]

The episode kicks off with Tim Whitaker and April Ajoy welcoming listeners and briefly discussing their ongoing dynamic, playfully debating who should handle the show's introduction. April shares exciting personal news about her involvement in the second season of the Amazon Prime documentary series Shiny Happy People, which delves into youth group culture and teen mania from the 90s and 2000s.

• April Ajoy [04:37]:
  “I am going to be in Shiny Happy People Season 2. They interviewed me, and I've kept this secret for over a year because I signed an NDA and I'm a rule follower.”

Tim congratulates April, expressing enthusiasm about her role and hinting at future special guests related to the documentary.

2. President Trump's Golfing Habits and Leadership Critique [09:15 - 11:24]

The hosts transition to discussing President Donald Trump's frequent golfing, analyzing its implications on his leadership and accountability.

• Tim Whitaker [09:15]:
  “He is averaging a solid 22 to 25% of his time in office golfing. I just wonder... how anyone's employer would feel if they said, 'Hey, at least 20-25% of the time, I'm going to be out golfing.'”

April critiques the hypocrisy of Trump supporters who denounce Biden while overlooking Trump's own leisure activities.

• April Ajoy [10:46]:
  “I am bothered by how much Trump golfs for the sole hypocrisy of it... I feel more comfortable with Trump on the golf course than in the Oval Office.”

3. Federal Judge Blocks Trump's Birthright Citizenship Order [11:34 - 13:36]

Tim and April discuss a recent ruling by U.S. District Judge Joseph LaPlante, who issued a nationwide injunction against Trump's attempted overhaul of birthright citizenship policies.

• Tim Whitaker [12:07]:
  “Judge LaPlante granted a request to certify a nationwide class that will be comprised only of those deprived of citizenship, issuing a preliminary injunction indefinitely blocking Trump's day one order.”

April emphasizes the importance of recognizing legal victories amidst ongoing tragedies.

• April Ajoy [13:12]:
  “We'll slow that down. So take our wins where we can.”

4. Texas Flood Disaster and Government Response [13:36 - 34:18]

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to the catastrophic floods in Texas, highlighting the tragic loss of life, including at Camp Mystic—a Christian girls' camp.

• Tim Whitaker [14:01]:
  “As of 30 minutes ago, victims have been found, including a lot of children, which is really tragic.”

The hosts critique the response of local and federal authorities, particularly pointing out delays in emergency alerts and FEMA's slow aid response due to newly implemented policies by Texas Governor Kristi Noem.

• April Ajoy [16:25]:
  “They waited 90 minutes to send out the emergency alerts after they were told about it... FEMA was like 72 hours delayed in getting to Texas.”

Tim challenges the simplistic attribution of blame solely to Trump's administration, advocating for a more nuanced understanding.

• Tim Whitaker [16:25]:
  “The children who drowned... did not vote for certain people... It's very callous to be like, well, this is what you voted for.”

5. National Weather Service, NOAA Cuts, and Climate Change [25:21 - 31:42]

The discussion shifts to the impact of funding cuts to the National Weather Service (NWS) and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) under the Trump administration, arguing that these cuts have compromised disaster forecasting and response capabilities.

• April Ajoy [25:21]:
  “National Weather Service issued multiple warnings... staffing cuts are threatening the future ability to forecast events better.”

Tim introduces a video featuring John Holdren, former science advisor for President Obama, who warns against the Trump administration's dismantling of climate-related research.

• John Holdren [Excerpt at 24:33]:
  “Suppressing this kind of information could actually increase the danger Americans face from climate impacts.”

The hosts connect these policy changes to Project 2025’s agenda, emphasizing the long-term dangers of deprioritizing scientific research.

• Tim Whitaker [31:42]:
  “Project 2025 includes about four pages on the NOAA and the National Weather Service... It's describing NOAA as a primary component of the climate change alarm industry.”

6. Marjorie Taylor Greene and Charlie Kirk's Conspiracy Theories [34:18 - 43:28]

The panel critiques Marjorie Taylor Greene's proposal to criminalize non-existent weather modification and Charlie Kirk's blaming of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) initiatives for the Texas floods.

• Marjorie Taylor Greene [35:11]:
  “I'm proposing a bill that will criminalize weather modification...”

April and Tim mockingly respond to these unfounded theories, highlighting the lack of evidence and the absurdity of blaming DEI for natural disasters.

• Tim Whitaker [35:18]:
  “Thank you mtg, for this proposal and for not proposing to ban assault weapons.”

• Charlie Kirk Clip [Example Quote]:
  “This Texas tragedy is just the latest example... this is DEI working to undermine meritocratic institutions.”

7. Epstein Files and Conspiracy Theories [47:07 - 78:52]

A heated segment addresses recent developments regarding Jeffrey Epstein's alleged client list. The hosts debunk claims of a comprehensive list implicating prominent Democrats, highlighting official statements that deny the existence of such a list.

• April Ajoy [51:34]:
  “There is no Epstein client list. He, in fact, did kill himself.”

Tim discusses the aftermath of Pam Bondi’s misleading claims about possessing Epstein’s client list.

• Tim Whitaker [54:52]:
  “Pam Bondi... claimed she had the list, but it turned out to be a bunch of nothing.”

The conversation touches on the broader MAGA conspiracy narrative surrounding Epstein, its impact on supporters’ trust in Trump, and the emergence of bipartisan skepticism when allegations falter.

• Tim Whitaker [65:34]:
  “MAGA has really started turning their back on Trump over this...”

8. Christian Nationalists and Homophobic Rhetoric [83:18 - 88:35]

In the final segment, Tim and April respond to a clip from Stephen McPherson, a megachurch pastor, delivering a homophobic sermon aimed at shaming congregants into tithing.

• Stephen McPherson Clip [88:02]:
  “You're some alpha male that likes to look down on all those gay sex men... God views you and those men as the same.”

The hosts vehemently criticize the hateful rhetoric, drawing parallels to historical propaganda and emphasizing the dangerous consequences of such ideologies.

• April Ajoy [91:38]:
  “It is so stupid... they're obsessed with gay people.”

• Tim Whitaker [93:44]:
  “You're like those men who have...”

9. Conclusion and Final Thoughts [99:06 - 99:34]

Tim and April wrap up the episode by acknowledging the emotional weight of the discussions, expressing gratitude to their listeners, and encouraging subscriptions and support for future episodes. They tease upcoming content, including responses to additional clips and the next episode's focus.

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Notable Quotes:

• April Ajoy [04:37]:
  “I am going to be in Shiny Happy People Season 2...”

• Tim Whitaker [09:15]:
  “He is averaging a solid 22 to 25% of his time in office golfing...”

• August Judge LaPlante [12:07]:
  “We will issue an injunction...”

• Marjorie Taylor Greene [35:11]:
  “I'm proposing a bill that will criminalize weather modification...”

• Stephen McPherson [88:02]:
  “You're some alpha male that likes to look down on all those gay sex men...”

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Conclusion:

This episode of The Tim & April Show delves deep into the intersection of faith, politics, and culture, tackling pressing issues from government accountability during disasters to debunking unfounded conspiracy theories. The hosts maintain a critical stance against Christian nationalism and MAGA ideologies, advocating for data-driven analysis and compassionate discourse amidst national tragedies and political controversies.

Transcript

[Tim Whitaker]

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[April Ajoy]

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[Tim Whitaker]

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[April Ajoy]

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[Tim Whitaker]

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[April Ajoy]

Oh, wow, a real person.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yep. I'm here to help with everything from selecting the perfect window treatments to. Well, I've got a complicated project. No problem. I can even help schedule a professional measuring install. We can also send you samples fast and free. Hmm.

[April Ajoy]

I just might have to do more.

[Tim Whitaker]

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[April Ajoy]

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[Tim Whitaker]

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[April Ajoy]

Blinds.com, rules and restrictions apply. You're listening to a new evangelicals production, the Tim and April show, where we unravel faith, politics and culture.

[Tim Whitaker]

Hey, friends.

[April Ajoy]

Hi, everybody.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay, I was thinking I really was gonna make a point to talk about this before we went live, but I really forgot.

[April Ajoy]

I'm thinking this. I forget, too.

[Tim Whitaker]

This shtick is going to get old to the audience that every episode we're fighting over who intros. But we're working on it. Okay? We're working on it.

[April Ajoy]

I know. Because we both initially so long, we were like, no, you go first. No, you go first. No, you. And so we would. We didn't want to tread on each other. But then now we're like, okay, that's old. And so now we're doing the opposite. So.

[Tim Whitaker]

Well, hello, friends. I guess I'LL just keep going like nothing ever happened. Welcome into the Tim and April Show. We are live right now on YouTube. Welcome in. Please make sure to give this video a like if you're watching with us. Hello to all of our podcast listeners. Happy Friday to you because this will come out on Friday, but right now we're live. So anyway, I'm Tim Whitaker.

[April Ajoy]

I'm April Ajoy.

[Tim Whitaker]

And we're here to walk you through some of the stuff that's happened this week as we work to dismantle Christian nationalism and help you find a better path forward in faith, politics and culture. Yeah, there's a lot going on here, friends.

[April Ajoy]

There's a lot going on, going on.

[Tim Whitaker]

We have, I have so many clips. Oh my goodness, so many clips.

[April Ajoy]

This is going to be a very clip heavy show.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah.

[April Ajoy]

And then our Monday episode that we're dropping is also going to be a little clip heavy. We're just kind of responding to Christian nationalism, which I think is going to be a good, a good episode too, even though it's, it's a little all over the place. But I actually really like responding to these clips because I think it, it gives like, I don't know, you see your MAGA family and friends share these clips all the time and it's just nice to be like, thank goodness someone's trying to, you know, respond to this 100%.

[Tim Whitaker]

April, has there been any big news in your world lately? Anything happen?

[April Ajoy]

Well, it just so happens, Tim, that something has happened. If you follow me on social media, you may have already seen this because I announced it on Wednesday. Tuesday. Tuesday.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay, Tuesday.

[April Ajoy]

Days ago it announced. I think so. Anyway, it doesn't matter. There is a new, I don't know how many of you all watched Shiny Happy People the first season that followed The Duggars and IBlp and Bill Gothard. It was very well done. But there's a.

[Tim Whitaker]

By the way, I should say that was when I was first introduced to Paul and Morgan was through season one. Oh, and then I did a video responding to their video and that's how we got connected. The rest is history. FYI, small antidote.

[April Ajoy]

I wonder if they've responded about season two. But anyway, so season two is following it's kind of youth group culture of the 90s and 2000s generically. But it's also about teen mania and Acquire the Fire. Did you ever go to Acquire the Fire?

[Tim Whitaker]

No.

[April Ajoy]

Oh yeah, you're a little reformed boy.

[Tim Whitaker]

I, we. That was a little too charismatic for we. We did like, we did some Other. There were some other versions of things like that where you would go to, like, an NBA game, there'd be some, you know, like, fun thing you do afterwards. But no, I never want to acquire the fire.

[April Ajoy]

Okay, well, I did, and I'm actually going to be in Shiny Happy People Season 2. They interviewed me, and I've kept this secret for over a year because I signed it NDA and I'm a rule follower.

[Tim Whitaker]

So I was like, you even kept it from me. You even kept it from me for the longest time. I was like, you really can't tell me. You're like, no. I'm like, april, we're off the air. You're like, I don't care. I can't tell you, all right?

[April Ajoy]

I can't record this day because I'm going to be in Atlanta. And Tim's like, why are you in Atlanta? And I'm like.

[Tim Whitaker]

Should we watch the trailer?

[April Ajoy]

We will get probably blocked if we. It's for the copyright.

[Tim Whitaker]

Fine. Okay. Okay, Go watch the trailer.

[April Ajoy]

I try to post it on my. My YouTube page, and it got blocked. Like, it got.

[Tim Whitaker]

Forget it. I can't just rant about how ridiculous YouTube is sometimes. Dude, Gavin Newsom. You share anything with Gavin Newsom in it, a news clip with Gavin Newsom and Gavin Newsom's team takes down your video. I'm like, bro, this is not freedom, okay?

[April Ajoy]

I do some automatic thing because, like, prime sent us the night before they sent us the trailer. So I was able to watch it the night before and see, like, oh, I'm in the trailer. Okay? Because you never know when you interview for a documentary, because I'm. I've produced documentary film on the, you know, production crew side, and things get cut. Like, you can interview entire people and they not make it into the doc because once you're in post production, the story can change. Things can change. So I. There. There was a piece of me that was trying to hold onto that so I wouldn't be disappointed. Like, there's a chance that I could just get fully cut, but I'm in the trailer, so I don't think I'm fully cut. At least I'm going to be in there doing something so.

[Tim Whitaker]

Well, we're going to find out. I'm excited for you. Congratulations, April. That really is very cool, especially being on, like, a real major production, you know, it's. It's on Amazon Prime, I believe, is where it comes out. Is that correct?

[April Ajoy]

Yes. And so it's not. Yeah, it's not out yet. I think they're dropping all three episodes, so it's a docu series. July 23rd is the release date.

[Tim Whitaker]

So exciting party. And maybe, maybe we are planning some things to coincide with that. April, maybe we're. We have some special guests on. On the show. Maybe potentially one day that might be relevant to such a discussion. We'll just keep it there.

[April Ajoy]

Yes, yes, we'll keep.

[Tim Whitaker]

See how I did that? I teased the audience. I keep watching and waiting.

[April Ajoy]

That was great. You did so good.

[Tim Whitaker]

I'm learning how to be a better influencer.

[April Ajoy]

You did great. I'm wondering if I'm gonna get memed. Oh, you know how people in documentaries like, they'll get memed when they say I feel like I'm the comic relief. Because if you watch the trailer in both lines, I say, I laugh after it. I'm like. And then it gets weird. And I, like, smile. And then I'm like, I'm traumatized, but I'm, like, laughing while saying it.

[Tim Whitaker]

Honest question, is it your dream or your nightmare to become a meme?

[April Ajoy]

I think it depends on the meme. I think if it's a funny pot, like, I'm in on the joke sort of thing, I think that would be cool. If it's, like, making fun of me meme, I think I'd be a little sad about it. You know, I would probably just roll with it and try to be part of the joke because no one likes someone that's like, take it down, you know?

[Tim Whitaker]

I, I, I completely agree, 100%. Yeah, I feel the same way.

[April Ajoy]

So. So, yeah.

[Tim Whitaker]

Well, you want to get into Trump's golfing habits.

[April Ajoy]

I do. But first, we got a couple super chats that came in already.

[Tim Whitaker]

Did we?

[April Ajoy]

We sure did.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, my goodness. Thank you so much. Oh, you're right.

[April Ajoy]

We've got one from Elsa. She said, I've got my coffee. Let's go. We all need that coffee. I've drank mine already. And from Emily. Thank you so much, Emily and Elsa. We appreciate the super chats.

[Tim Whitaker]

It makes this work possible. So thank you so much. And all super chats get read live on the air. So the golf Trump golf tracker thing in Mahouzi. Yeah. So it looks like we're at a. I mean, really, I think we're pretty stable. I mean, he's averaging a solid 22 to 25% of his time, almost a quarter of his time in office. He is golfing.

[April Ajoy]

Yep.

[Tim Whitaker]

I mean, I just wonder, you know, conservatives love to compare the government to, like, you know, the business marketplace. Right. And so just in the spirit of that, I just wonder how anyone's employer would feel if they said, hey, listen, at least 20, 25% of the time, I'm going to be out golfing. You cool with that? I'm just. I'm not going to be available. I'm just not going to be here. I have to go golf. Is that part of my tcp, my total compensation package? It's just interesting that Trump does this. And it's so weird to see, like, the MAGA hold the government accountable, drain the swamp. People not really talk about this fact. I mean, and by the way, yeah, we're in a very tumultuous time in, like, world history. It's not like, you know, things are kind of, you know, mum or just buzzing along. We got wars going on. We got.

[April Ajoy]

Right.

[Tim Whitaker]

We got doge going on now. We're going to talk about Texas in a minute. We have. We have a catastrophe happening in Texas. Things are happening that are wild and trumping.

[April Ajoy]

I, you know, I actually have conflicting feelings on this because.

[Tim Whitaker]

Do tell.

[April Ajoy]

I am bothered by how much Trump golfs for the sole hypocrisy of it. All of what they said about Biden and how if that were Biden, they would be, you know, MAGA would be losing their minds, and they just ignore what Donald Trump does. Because I don't think. I don't think Trump's ever worked a hard day in his life. But also, I feel more comfortable with Trump on the golf course than in the Oval Office.

[Tim Whitaker]

You know, like, that's fair. That's a good point. Yeah. You know what, Trump, go ahead.

[April Ajoy]

The nuclear codes, I think the better.

[Tim Whitaker]

You're right. You're right. You know what? Why don't we double that? Trump, take all the time you want, buddy. Out there on the golf course.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, man. Yeah. That's hilarious.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah. And then one other piece of banter. We can start off with good news before we get into really sad news, but a federal judge just issued a new nationwide block against Trump's birthright citizenship.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yep.

[April Ajoy]

Order. Where he said where he overturned that. So recently, the Supreme Court blocked lower courts from being able to block the Trump administration, but they got around it by making it. What was it, like a class action lawsuit sort of thing.

[Tim Whitaker]

Exactly. So according to CNN, the ruling from U.S. district Judge Joseph LaPlante, I think that's how you say it, is significant because the Supreme Court last month curbed the power of lower courts to issue nationwide injunctions while keeping intact the ability of plaintiffs to seek A widespread block of the order through class action lawsuits, which is what happened. So the ruling from the bench, the judge said he or the judge granted a request from immigration rights attorneys to certify a nationwide class that will be compromised only of those deprived of citizenship, and issued a preliminary injunction indefinitely blocking Trump's day one order from being enforced against born and unborn babies who would be impacted by the policy. So essentially what has happened here is that the Supreme Court ruled, and this judge is like, well, here's how we'll get around that. We will. We will use this method of a class action lawsuit or a type of idea and just classify all these people under one class and we'll issue an injunction. That's. That's the. That's the current position that we are in. So that's definitely a good thing.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah, definitely a good thing. We'll slow that down. So take our wins where we can.

[Tim Whitaker]

And just for all the people out there who are like typical liberal Marxist judges, this Judge April was appointed by George W. Bush.

[April Ajoy]

So you don't say.

[Tim Whitaker]

Hardly a radical Marxist. You know what I'm saying?

[April Ajoy]

No, not at all. Not at all. Well, that's very good news.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah.

[April Ajoy]

But. Okay, so we are. We are going to segue now. I don't know how we segue into this, because it is truly tragic, but the floods that happened in Texas, I don't know what the most recent count is. I think it's over a hundred.

[Tim Whitaker]

It's 170 for. According to USA Today, as of 30 minutes ago, have. Have victims have been found. Yeah. Including a lot of children, which is really tragic.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah. There was Camp mystic, which was a Christian girls camp that was happening, and I don't. I think some of the girls are still missing. They're. They're looking for them. They have found a few. I saw a story where they found two girls alive, like, clinging to each other in a tree that unfortunately was.

[Tim Whitaker]

Debunked as it was. Yeah, yeah, it was. I think the New York Post issued that, and then they had to retract it, which only makes that even more tragic. Right. Because what a powerful story. But it was a hoax or it wasn't true. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[April Ajoy]

Gosh. Well, never mind.

[Tim Whitaker]

It's.

[April Ajoy]

But the whole thing is truly, very, very tragic. I mean, my. My girls are the age of those campers at. I just can't even imagine. That's the. That is every parent's worst nightmare. Like, to not even be there for your kid when that happens.

[Tim Whitaker]

I mean. Yeah, I. Yeah, I. The thought of. Yeah, it's a terrible thought. And for many parents right now, it is. You know, it's their lived reality. It's their hell on earth. There's also been a lot of stories that have come out of. Of parents and camp counselors and directors saving as many people as possible, you know, to try and get out of the way and losing their life in the process. I think there was a story I read of a man who punched out a window for his family to escape through, and he ended up not surviving his injuries. I mean, there's all kinds of stories like that. That is. They're just really tragic. I mean, it's really a horrible, horrible situation.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah. Yeah, it really. It really is awful. And so anytime you see something so tragic, especially I think in this very divisive world, that I feel is. It's just very tumultuous. The current state that we're in, you're going to have people politicizing tragedy. And on one hand, you know, people. It's human nature to want to point the finger and figure out who's to blame and to figure out ways to not let this happen again. But. But we've been seeing. And there's been a lot of things that have come out that are also not great. I don't know where you want to start, so I. I have a lot.

[Tim Whitaker]

Of thoughts on this, and maybe I can be the first one to kind of fall on the sword. Some people in the audience might not like what I have to say, but you don't have to. It is what it is. I have seen not a lot, but I've seen a few people who might be in the more progressive liberal camp, you know, say things like, this is what you voted for. You know, f around and find out. And I just think for many reasons, that's not a great posture. In fact, that's a terrible posture to have. The children who drowned in this situation did not vote for certain people. And by the way, Texas is on a monolith, okay? And I just think it's also very callous to be like, well, this is what you voted for. I don't think anyone votes for, you know, flash floods that end up killing a lot of people. The other piece of the pie, and we can kind of get into. Into the. The nitty gritty here is. Look, I have always tried my. Myself, and I don't do it per. But I've always tried to be as data driven as possible. You know, if people listen to the show or listen to me on podcasts or on my YouTube lives. No, I always try and cite sources for the perspectives that I hold. And the reality is that after digging into this, talking to various weather experts, people who I either know personally or who I've seen online, I know a lot of people have been trying to make the connection that, hey, due to Trump and Doge's cuts to the National Weather Service and the national oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, this is what happened. But the data actually does not bear that out for several reasons, one of which is because a lot of these cuts don't take place until after July. For example, there's a story going around, and this is true, by the way, that, that the NOAA is going to stop being given satellite data from the Navy, which helps predict hurricanes and things like that. But that happens July 31st. It hasn't happened yet. The other piece of the puzzle is that a lot of people are saying that the National Weather Service absolutely did a pretty solid bang up job predicting and also issuing warnings on a national level that did reach local officials, but for all kinds of reasons, those local officials or those systems that were in place did not reach people on the ground in an adequate way. Okay, so there's that going on. There's also a report, I'm just, I'm going through this in my head, so I'm thinking about all the objections I've seen. There's also a report from the New York Times that is accurate, that, that this particular weather station that does the forecast for that area, they, they were, they did lose some people because, like, for example, I think was a senior meteorologist. He resigned early because of Trump and the cuts. But at the time of the storm, the weather service location was staffed for their weather protocol. They had five people on staff around the clock. So, meaning they were doing their job how they would normally do it, even without those cuts. And so I say this because anyone who listens to this show or knows me knows that we do not ever give Trump a pass on anything. We are incredibly critical of MAGA for all kinds of reasons, some of which we, some of which we need to call out as well. For example, cutting the National Weather Service and cutting NOA funding is going to further harm our ability to predict future storms. Okay, that's bad. What Trump is doing is bad. But to, but to, to make it. This black and white binary of, oh, because of Trump this happened does not include other factors, including the fact that flash flooding is incredibly unpredictable. It happens very quickly. If a storm moves a few miles off off course of what's predicted, it can have drastic consequences. And this happened in the middle of the night when people are usually sleeping. So there is a combination of factors, is what I'm trying to say, that went into this. And I don't think it's very data driven just to blanketly say, thanks, Trump, this is all your fault. Trump is responsible for a lot, and he will, he will be responsible for a lot more. But in this particular scenario, it's just way more complicated than that, in my opinion.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah. I mean, and there's, there's different things that, that went down, too, that there was a combination of a lot of things. Like the Kerr county officials, a report came out, too, that they found out that they waited 90 minutes to send out the emergency alerts after they were told about it. And, and something that is Trump's fault is the Fema was like 72 hours delayed in getting to Texas because Kristi Noem added this new policy that basically any certain amount of, I think it was anything over $100,000, which is not a lot of money when it comes to emergency care, had to be personally approved by her, and she did not approve it until 72 hours after the flood. So there is blame to be put on those cuts and what the Trump administration has done. And I do think FEMA being slow in getting there, probably cost some people their life that they couldn't help with search and rescue. But it is more complicated than just, this is all Trump's fault. And not because I think, regardless, this flood was going to happen. It was a pretty catastrophic.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right. Because acts of. Listen, let's set aside just the theology and philosophy for a second. We live in a chaotic world. Our environment is, is, is chaotic. Acts of nature happen all over the world all the time, earthquakes, et cetera. Right. And we know this. So what? But here's the key. We want to try and minimize the outcomes of those kinds of catastrophes. Right. And so I think a really, a really important piece to pick up here for our conversation is the reality that Kerr county. And I think this actually does kind of play into, again, being able to save more lives. Kerr, Kerr county is, according to npr, they struggled to fund flood warnings. So, so they actually were trying to put a system in place that would cost a million dollars. And they reached out to the Texas State FEMA grant management company or organization, sorry, that, that, that, that doles out FEMA grants to fund things like that. And they were denied several times for that funding. Right. So, so Kerr county officials did try to get some kind of siren system in place because neighboring counties had that installed. But for whatever reason, the, the state of Texas who manages grant funds for FEMA did not grant them that million dollars. So, so, and absolutely we can say that played a role, right? And possibly not saving as many lives as could have been saved a hundred percent. And I think that that's really important. And this goes into the bigger conversation of this is why you want a well funded government, right? This is why you want FEMA well funded. This is why you want taxpayers and billionaires being taxed to fund things like that. This is why you don't want to cut the National Weather System or, or funding to the National Ocean Atmospheric association, you know, administration. You don't want to cut those things. In fact, April, is it cool if I play about a four minute video with two experts talking about the importance of those systems and why them being gutted is only going to further harm people? This is really important in my opinion, because let's face it, whenever something like this happens, all of a sudden everyone's an expert overnight, right? I mean, I never think about the weather or how or our national weather system, but now I'm kind of like neck deep in trying to understand what's going on. This is about a five minute clip. It's from cnn. It's worth the watch, it's worth the listen. I think it's really educational and kind of gives the nuance that we're all looking for. Check this out, friends. The National Weather Service is defending itself regarding the alerts that it issued and the timing of them. Christina Dahl, the vice president of Climate Central, addressed the role of staffing at NWS and other federal agencies and whether cuts are potentially impacting forecasts.

[April Ajoy]

I think it's too early to say. We do know that the National Weather Service issued multiple warnings about flood risk and so clearly they were getting messages out. They do have a vacancy right now in a critical position called the warning coordination meteorologist. And so it could be that that vacancy had connections to local authorities who could have helped to raise the early warnings for residents. But generally the weather forecast office for the National Weather Service has Someone on staff 24 hours watching the radar to see what is happening in terms of precipitation, rainfall, other threats. And there are National Weather Service offices throughout the country that because of staffing cuts are no longer staffing their offices 24 hours a day.

[Tim Whitaker]

That's a big deal.

[April Ajoy]

So we need these critical people to be keeping us safe 24 hours a day in every one of these offices across the country. And the second piece of this is that staffing cuts at NOAA, or the national oceanic and Atmospheric Administration more broadly, are threatening the future ability to forecast events better. Forecasting a storm like this one, where exactly is the heaviest rain going to fall? How is it going to translate from rain into flooding? These are extremely challenging problems scientifically. And, and it's the research of NOAA that enables us to improve our forecasts year over year so that we can more accurately pinpoint the warnings that need to go out to the public.

[Tim Whitaker]

Now, the very reports designed to warn us of these extreme weather risks have seemingly disappeared. This is very mandated national climate assessments, long used by state and local officials to prepare for climate impacts, have been quietly removed from federal websites. The White House says the info will now be housed within NASA. Joining me now, the man who helped build this very system that's now being taken apart, John Holdren. He's the co director of the Science, Technology and Public Policy Program at Harvard University's Belfer center and a former science advisor for President Obama. Thank you so much for being with us. Pay attention, people. This is really key weekend. Let's start here for viewers who might just be hearing about this. What exactly are these national climate assessments, and what does it mean that they've effectively vanished from federal websites? Well, the national climate assessments of climate change impacts on the United States were mandated in a 1990 act of Congress, the U.S. global Research act of 1990, and they are supposed to be produced roughly every four years. Some have been slow, but on the whole, there have been five such reports produced. The sixth was recently canceled in midstream by President Trump. And the five previous ones, which were all posted on the US Global Change Research Program's website, have disappeared for the moment. They may show up on the NASA website. We can hope so. But the whole fiasco is simply one aspect of a campaign by the Trump administration to dismantle large parts of the US Research establishment, and in particular, to dismantle every effort to better understand and predict what climate change is doing in the United States. Well, John, help me understand this a little bit more. You've warned that suppressing this kind of information could actually increase the danger Americans face from climate impacts. How does that work? Absolutely. The national assessments have provided information about how climate is affecting every region in the United States and every sector of our economy. It's the only set of reports that are sufficiently detailed in those respects to be useful to decision makers, to city planners, mayors, to governors, to tribal leaders, to so that they can understand what steps they need to take in their domains to reduce the impacts of climate change on people, on property, on ecosystems, and on their local economies. Now, John, you've called this just one front in a much broader assault on scientific analysis, as you were saying earlier, across climate, medicine, pollution, even public education. What's your sense of what's really driving this and what might the long term consequences be if this continues? Well, it's, of course, very hard to see into the minds of the people, starting with President Trump, who are orchestrating this campaign against science and reason. But one has to assume that it's some mixture of a desire for total control, a desire to eradicate sources of independent analysis and opinion that might provide information counter to the policies that President Trump is trying to advance. Well, it's fascinating and I just appreciate you taking the stop right there, but, yeah, I mean, I mean, this guy is like one of the people who builds out these, these reports, and he comes on saying, look, the Trump administration stopped us in the middle of making our next assessment that helps local governing bodies determine the impact of climate change or just, or just, just climate risk, because we live in a climate that has risk to it to help mediate future catastrophes. And that's why I say this is kind of both and. Right. Was Trump necessarily, necessarily responsible for what happened in Texas the way it happened? Not necessarily, but the actions of the Trump administration and what they're doing. Absolutely. Will have a humongous impact. The last thing I'll say to this, April, then I headed back over to you. This is really important. I think we need to remember, folks, that, that this is directly part of Project 2025's agenda. Okay. We are absolutely seeing this happen. In fact, I have a source here from pbs. Where is the actual quote? Let's see. So it says. Let me pull it up here. Yeah, here we go. Project 2025 includes about four pages on the NOAA and the National Weather Service. This part was written by Thomas Gilman, who is an official in Trump's Commerce Department. The document describes NOAA as a primary component of, quote, the climate change alarm industry. Instead, it should be broken up and downsized. Okay, so product 2025 says that we shouldn't outright end the National Weather Service, but we should focus on data gathering and be full and fully commercialize its forecasting operations. So, absolutely, because of Project 2025 and the Trump administration being in sync with it, that is why you're seeing these institutions being targeted. And they're going to have dire consequences going forward if it's not reversed.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah. Well, this is also the consequence of just climate change denial that we've seen over the last several decades.

[Tim Whitaker]

You know, 100%, the 100%.

[April Ajoy]

And we, we recently talked about the Rapture. Rapture theology has played a part in climate, Climate change denial, Christian Nationalism, Project 2025. Like these are, these are unfortunate consequences of climate change. And what you don't need are cuts to noaa, NASA, you know, all these weather things. It's interesting though. So one, I think two things can be true. Right. We can, we can still try to keep our humanity and know that like I know that those parents who lost, those kids didn't, even if they voted for Trump, did not vote for that.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right.

[April Ajoy]

There's a lot of MAGA voters who I just believe are very ignorant. A lot of them willfully ignorant. And it's very hard and frustrating to give empathy to people that do not give empathy back. You know, we remember what they said when the LA fires were happening, that it was God's judgment. It's, it's really hard. Like, I'm not just, I'm not denying that it's hard. Like sometimes these people can be hard to love.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah.

[April Ajoy]

And also they are still human beings.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yep.

[April Ajoy]

I think that deserve dignity and don't deserve to die in a, in a massive flood. That's one thing. That's true. And also Donald Trump's administration and the MAGA movement, what those cuts are going to lead to more tragedies like this.

[Tim Whitaker]

That's right.

[April Ajoy]

And these tragedies will be bigger than maybe they could be. And hurricane season is coming up. I mean, what happened within Asheville and North Carolina last year was tragic, and that was just last year, you know, and we're coming upon a brand new hurricane season. And so it is important to talk about why these programs need funding.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes. By the way, who wouldn't want that? Sorry. Who wouldn't want that? You have to be, you're, you're, you have to be so anti science, you have to be such a climate denier, climate change denier to really think that you're doing humanity a favor by cutting studies that are going to help us better predict future weather catastrophes. And so, so we can hopefully try and, and mitigate the outright harm that's going to cause. It's unbelievable.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah. Yeah. So all that being said, we've already talked about, there's been some people from the progressive side that I don't think have been responding the best, but most people have that I've seen from that side. It's been a small percentage. Now from the right, Marjorie Taylor Greene.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, Marjorie Taylor Greene. I thought we're going to Charlie Kirk. I was trying to guess.

[April Ajoy]

I know. Well, I didn't know where I was going to go. Marjorie Taylor Greene is bringing up weather modification again, which is why she blamed the hurricanes on last year that Democrats control the weather. And she. She released this tweet that she's proposing a bill that will criminalize weather modification. Now, meteorologists from all over have debunked this. And.

[Tim Whitaker]

I just want to say. I just want to say thank you mtg, for this proposal and for not proposing to ban assault weapons.

[April Ajoy]

Great.

[Tim Whitaker]

Thank you. Thank you. I know, like, thank you mtg. Like your. Your heart is in the right place. Here we got. Hey, national ban. We gotta stop modifying the weather. But no national ban on assault weapons that are the. The. The. The choice of mass shooters everywhere that have killed countless amount of children. We can't ban those, but we definitely can ban weather modification.

[April Ajoy]

The thing that doesn't. The thing that doesn't exist.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh my God.

[April Ajoy]

And there's competing for the record, but it's very. It's not what she's claiming it is or can do.

[Tim Whitaker]

So it's unbelievable.

[April Ajoy]

Conspiracy theories are wild. So. But Charlie Kirk, that. That's where we're going to go next. Charlie Kirk somehow brought. Found a way to bring DEI into this. Now, Kerr county is a. Is a very red Republican county, just for the record. So let's see how Charlie Kirk can spend this.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay, let's listen to good old Charlie Kirk. Democrats. They're so despicable. The Democrats are not lifting a finger to remember the. Well over 100 people that have died in Texas hill country. What you are not being told by the media anywhere is that the death toll likely would not have been as high if it wasn't for dei. This Texas tragedy is just the latest example. It's not just incompetence. This is DEI working to undermine meritocratic institutions. And more people likely died than otherwise would have because of dei.

[April Ajoy]

This so stupid.

[Tim Whitaker]

What is this buffoon of a man talking about?

[April Ajoy]

Well, he's so. So stupid and racist. Stupid and racist. Fanning the flame of conspiracy theories around DEI for no reason. Absolutely no reason.

[Tim Whitaker]

You know what? Charlie didn't mention that Mexico sent search and rescue teams to help out in Texas. Did you know that? April, they sent Mexico. Sent Mexico the nation, who. Charlie and Trump denigrate all the time. They sent search and rescue teams to help with the recovery process. That's what you should be covering. Charlie. Is that dei? Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? What? Where's the. And also what? What? Not that there would be any, but what evidence would you have that in your twisted racist world, diversity, equity and inclusion has contributed to the amount of casualties in the flooding? Like what? What are you talking about?

[April Ajoy]

Dude literally gives no evidence. Just spewing, talking. Points out his ass. He has no idea what he's talking about. Charlie. Kirk, he isn't. He is a terrible human being.

[Tim Whitaker]

I know, I know.

[April Ajoy]

He's not a good person. I gotta say, he is making the world a worse place.

[Tim Whitaker]

There are some people that it's really hard for me not to dehumanize. Charlie is right up there. Right up there. He's like top five. Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. Now I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills, but it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial.

[April Ajoy]

Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required. New customer offer for first three months only. Speed slow after 35 gigabytes of networks busy. Taxes and fees extra. See mintmobile.com hey there.

[Tim Whitaker]

My name is Christian from the beautiful San Francisco Bay Area and I serve on the New Evangelicals board as one of the people who helps foster a community through zoom conversations, other online events outside of Facebook. And I'm super proud to be a donor and a supporter and a participant in the important conversations we're having as it feels like our faith in our country is being hijacked to become, well, in my opinion, less and less Christian. Less and less like Jesus. So I love our TNE community. I also support Project Amplify because I love seeing. I love hearing other smart, helpful, hopeful, educated voices being elevated to show that there's a better way forward for those who want to follow the life changing teachings of Jesus. I'm proud of the consistently kind, humanizing, respectful, and yet red flag raising content that TNE produces.

[April Ajoy]

Greg, you wanted to show Greg Abbott.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes, I do. I do. I'm so glad. I'm so glad. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you, April.

[April Ajoy]

Greg Abbott was so. He's responding, I think a press conference. He's responding to questions about who's to blame for the deaths in the Texas Flood.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay, okay.

[April Ajoy]

And I think you'll be surprised at where he goes with this.

[Tim Whitaker]

I was certainly surprised, April. I'll just put it that way. You ask, I'm going to use your words, who's to blame? Know this. That's the word choice of losers. Let me explain one thing about Texas, and that is Texas. Every square inch of our state cares about football. You could be in Hunt, Texas, Huntsville, Texas, Houston, Texas, any size community, they care about football, high school, Friday Night Lights, college football or pro. And know this, every football team makes mistakes. The losing teams are the ones that try to point out who's to blame. The championship teams are the ones that say, don't worry about it, man, we got this. We're going to make sure that we go score again, then we're going to win this game. The way winners talk is not to point fingers. They talk about solutions. What Texas is all about is solutions. I don't, I don't know what to even say.

[April Ajoy]

Like, how do you bring football? Oh, yeah, the Texas Floods. Just like a game of football.

[Tim Whitaker]

Can I just bring up one point here?

[April Ajoy]

He says blame other people in sports all the time, too. He says the good analogy.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah. His analogy is the losing teams are the ones that try to point out who's to blame. No, winning teams do that. And they usually put it on themselves. Usually winning teams don't blame their opponents or the refs. They blame themselves for not being better. That's what winning teams do, Greg. So you might want to take some ownership as the governor of the state that this happened and say, you know what? As a team, a championship team, we gotta own what we did wrong so we can be better next time. Because this is unexcusable, inexcusable. We need accountability.

[April Ajoy]

But if someone, if someone, if a teammate travels with five seconds left in the game and you were up by one and then the other team happens to score, I'm going to blame that teammate that travels when we were one game away from the state championship. That's not salty about it at all.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, my God. Yeah, right? Geez. So, yeah, it's. It's been, it's been wild to. Oh, goodness. It is interesting too. It is very. Did you, did you see the clip where Trump blamed Biden for the floods?

[April Ajoy]

Oh, yeah.

[Tim Whitaker]

He literally is like, yeah, this, this is Biden's waters, so it's his fault.

[April Ajoy]

I really don't know how they can keep blaming Biden. Like, I feel like blaming Biden has just become such a second nature thing for them. To do that. They're just that Trump almost forgets he's the president and MAGA forgets that they're in charge and they're like, Biden. It was Biden's fault. It was Biden. Joe Biden was all him.

[Tim Whitaker]

He said. He said, quote, if you look at that water situation, that was really the Biden setup. What is he talking. This is what Trump said, dude, you're in charge. You're the leader.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah.

[Tim Whitaker]

No, I'm dead serious. That's what he said. It's unbelievable. The. The, you know, we. We always kind of point out, but it needs to be pointed out every single time. They're. These people don't take any ownership for their own faults. They don't take any accountability. Right. So, so, so Joe Biden is simultaneously sleepy Joe. He can't speak. Right. He's losing his mind. He's weak. There's someone else running the government. But also, he's so powerful that seven, eight months after he left the presidency, apparently, he's also responsible for the flooding in Texas. Not the guy who's currently in charge and his administration. Right. No, no, no. It's Biden's fault still.

[April Ajoy]

Right.

[Tim Whitaker]

Wow.

[April Ajoy]

Don't forget. Jesus Unfollower brought this up, but there's a group of people in Kuhnen that think Joe Biden's not even alive and that he's been a clone for years.

[Tim Whitaker]

Of course, I think that. April. Of course. Of course. They're also controlling the weather. You know, Alana, thank you so much for the super chat. You guys bring me so much joy in the darkness on Mondays and Thursdays when I sometimes feel like I'm going crazy. I've been spreading the word about you to all my friends and family. Thank you. Keep resisting. Thank you so much. And thank you, Laura, for the super chat as well. How in the bleep does blaming Biden make sense? Great question. It doesn't make sense. And lastly, Darren, thank you for the super chat. My two favorite podcasters. Darren, that is so kind. Thank you. It means the world. Yeah. Wow. Where's the ownership? Where's the responsibility?

[April Ajoy]

I know.

[Tim Whitaker]

These people are losing their. The. They act like losers in a championship game. They act like a losing team. Blame everybody else.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah. Speaking of football now, analogies. Let's bring that back. It's so infuriating. Like, it is infuriating. I understand. Like, sometimes I want to be, like, f around, find out, you know, but totally, totally. Because they. They make it so easy. They. They blame everybody else. They Never look inward. It's super frustrating. But then it's also tragic when like literally people are dying because.

[Tim Whitaker]

Exactly, exactly.

[April Ajoy]

Of. Well, some of it is not anybody's fault. You know, there are things that are beyond our control totally. But then there are things that we can control and cutting. Anyway, we've already been over it.

[Tim Whitaker]

Actually. I have to ask, has Trump visited Texas yet?

[April Ajoy]

I know it took him a minute. Also, do you know Ted Cruz was on vacation again when this happened?

[Tim Whitaker]

So sorry. Yeah, I do know that. And Trump, according to USA Today as of two days ago, says that he plans to visit. He will probably visit Texas floods on Friday. So he's not even. He's not even there yet. He's not even there. He hasn't even visited yet. Now, again, we have to make the point. If this was Biden. If Biden said, I'll probably visit on Friday. Oh, he hates the American people. He hates Texas because Texas is Republican. This is the kind of president that you elected. He hates people or he hates Americans. It's just. It's so evident how one sided they are. And yet. Yet white evangelicals are the most concentrated in that world. Blows my mind.

[April Ajoy]

It's awful.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah.

[April Ajoy]

All right, do we want to move on to another wild?

[Tim Whitaker]

There are so many things. This is. This is where we get super clip heavy. There's so many wild things are happening. So we're getting to Epstein, people. Don't worry. We're getting to Epstein. We are on the path to getting there.

[April Ajoy]

So before Epstein, maybe just to show how incompetent Donald Trump is as President of the United States for many reasons, but I feel like this clip really encapsulates.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, I know where you're going. I know where you're going. I'm pulling it. I'm pulling it.

[April Ajoy]

This really is not a main story. It was just so. Oh, my gosh. I cannot believe he did this. He recently met with the President from Liberia.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah. This is not a.

[April Ajoy]

No, this is not. AI. And just for every. Before we play this clip, I just want you all to know that English is the official language of Liberia.

[Tim Whitaker]

Keep that in mind before we do. Thank you so much, Joseph, for the super chat. How do people continue to follow him? How. Yeah. Solidarity. And also, thank you so much, Alex, for the super chat. Does that mean MAGA is on the losing team for blaming Biden? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Okay, buckle up, friends. This is a real clip. Well, thank you. In such good English. Such beautiful. Where did you learn to speak so beautifully? Where were you educated? Where In Liberia. Well, that's very interesting. It's beautiful English. I have people at this table can't speak nearly as well. I. I'm.

[April Ajoy]

I. Liberia speaks English. That's their official nation, national language.

[Tim Whitaker]

And even if it wasn't, what a racist, disrespectful thing to say to. To a president of another country. Beautiful English. Oh, why?

[April Ajoy]

Why?

[Tim Whitaker]

Is it because he's black? Is that why? Because he's raised from here? Trump. Is that why you assume that? Like, dude, so three months. I spent three months in Europe a lot, like, years ago. I was in Germany, Finland and Belgium. Everyone spoke English. I couldn't speak their language. I learned like two words in Finnish and, you know, and in German, but everyone could speak freaking English. Like, this is going to blow your mind. Americans. But people around the world are. Many of them are multilingual, bilingual, trilingual. They can speak multiple languages.

[April Ajoy]

I mean, let's not forget, I think it was in his first term, he referred to African nation as shithole countries.

[Tim Whitaker]

Exactly.

[April Ajoy]

So we already know how he feels. It's. It's so. It's so stupid. I mean, and listen, to be fair, I did not know that English was the official language of Liberia. But I'm not the President of the United States. No one briefed him.

[Tim Whitaker]

Like his team.

[April Ajoy]

His team. Just some basic facts about Liberia.

[Tim Whitaker]

Like five facts. Fact number one, English is the official language. Oh, good to know.

[April Ajoy]

You know, here's the capital of the nation.

[Tim Whitaker]

Fact number two, it's located in Africa.

[April Ajoy]

Oh, geez.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, no, that one got me.

[April Ajoy]

We're not sending our best. We're not sending our best.

[Tim Whitaker]

Definitely not. April. Good point.

[April Ajoy]

So cringe for not sending our best.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay.

[April Ajoy]

Also, this is a guy who's literally said the word bigly and makes up words. Oh, wait, do I have it here all the time?

[Tim Whitaker]

I love Tesla. I love Tesla. So brilliant. Brilliant. Trump is. He's genius. Oh, my God. We're so back, baby. America's so back. Wait for it. I love Tesla. Yeah. Yeah, we're back.

[April Ajoy]

I know. Well, you know who's still not back? Who is Jeffrey Epstein.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, what a segue.

[April Ajoy]

Who was killed or committed suicide. Allegedly.

[Tim Whitaker]

Allegedly.

[April Ajoy]

Years ago. And this week. This week has been a very interesting week.

[Tim Whitaker]

Where do you want to start with this one, April?

[April Ajoy]

I don't even know. So, Pam Bondi, okay, fanbody came out and announced that actually, you all, there's no Epstein client list. He, in fact, did kill himself.

[Tim Whitaker]

Wow. Wow.

[April Ajoy]

Nothing to see here.

[Tim Whitaker]

Nothing to see.

[April Ajoy]

Nothing to see here.

[Tim Whitaker]

And there's no client list. No.

[April Ajoy]

No client list.

[Tim Whitaker]

No nothing.

[April Ajoy]

And which is especially interesting because was it, what, a couple months ago they, they gave out these binders that was supposedly all this new information on Jeffrey Epstein.

[Tim Whitaker]

That's right. That's right.

[April Ajoy]

And this is after years, I mean years since Jeffrey Epstein was imprisoned and then died. They have built up this Epstein list. They've been calling on Biden to release the list. They said Biden was on the list, Obama was on the list, Bill Clinton was on the list. All like all these Democrats. Right. They love to ignore all the photos of Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein that exists. They also love to ignore the fact that Trump wished Ghislaine Maxwell.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yep.

[April Ajoy]

She wished her well. When she, I think, I believe she's still in prison.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah. When she was convicted of like sexual.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, Jeffrey, he wished her well. Not a good human being. Not a good human being. There, there was evidence to convict him, I think, I don't think he got convicted of everything because he did a plea deal. But there's Jeffrey, you know, his island and people that would fly to the island, which Donald Trump's in those flight logs, btw. And let's not forget like three weeks ago. It wasn't even that long. Maybe, maybe four weeks ago. I don't remember what is time these days. But Elon Musk tweeted out, Donald Trump is in the Epstein files and that's why they're not going to release him. Yeah, look, he. Right here, he says, time to drop the really big bomb. Donald Trump is in the Epstein files. That is the real reason they have not been made public. Have a nice day, djt.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, shoot. Oh shoot. He did not.

[April Ajoy]

And then he and Trump made nice. So then he deleted it. But then he recently is stirring it back up again. I don't know. Did you see that meme that he posted? Anyway, he's, he's trying to get the government to release the Epstein files again. And to be fair, I still don't like Elon Musk. I mean, he throws out Nazi salutes. He's not a good dude.

[Tim Whitaker]

But. Right.

[April Ajoy]

You know, when you're, you have two enemies fighting, you just kind of watch it happen. Right.

[Tim Whitaker]

You just maybe, maybe to emphasize the point, we should play this clip of Trump Jr. From 2024 talking about like how insane it was that, you know, that, that we can't convict anyone on the Epstein list. This is at a Turning Point USA event. By the way, I'm fine with all the other list as Long as I'm not on the Epstein list, we're good. Right? Speaking of which, how is it that my father could be convicted of 34 crimes but no one on Epstein's list has even been brought to light? How is, I'm trying to figure out how that's possible. Right. It's almost like they're trying to protect those pedophiles for some reason. I can't imagine why. Right. Oof. That did not age well.

[April Ajoy]

No, none of it's aged well. I mean, this is like their thing. And honestly I didn't really get that involved with like, I didn't read up too much on Jeffrey Epstein because it really did turn into this very elaborate MAGA conspiracy where they just accused pretty much every leftist, every Democrat of being on the Epstein list.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah. So let me kind of break down just, just, just a big picture like theme here for folks. So one of the reasons why this is such a big deal, especially in right wing circles is because a lot of people think that Jeffrey Epstein was protecting the, the deep state cabal of child sex traffickers that are in bed with the government that are participating in this like, you know, child abuse ring. Okay. And that it's of course always Democrats. One of the stories you might remember from a while ago was the story of a man who went to, I think it was called pizza, it was some, some pizza shop in, in D.C. and brought a gun in there to shoot a lock off a door because he was convinced that thanks to Qanon, he was convinced that, that this pizza shop was holding children underneath of it that were part of this trafficking ring. And he showed up and did this thing and there was no basement, there was just a broom closet. So this is like a deep seated conspiracy. Now of course, obviously child trafficking happens and it's bad. No one's denying that, but they believe that's happening inside our government because of Democrats. Okay. And so the reason why this took off mostly in right wing spaces is because they're like, look, there's this list. It has to be all these people. It has to be the smoking gun that's going to stop this, this, this child trafficking from happening. So that, that was the big thing. And also to be fair, some of the stuff around like his, Jeffrey's death or Epstein's death was really suspicious. Okay. Cameras weren't, weren't recording the right way. Some of the guards apparently dozed off or weren't around. Even the 12 hours of video footage that, that they released doesn't even show his cell it's the foot. The two cells on the footage are not his cell and the camera or the. The. The. The timestamp missing a minute. One minute between 11:58 and then 12:00am the next day.

[April Ajoy]

Tam Bondi gave an explanation for that.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes, yes, she did try to. I just say that because, you know, I. There is some suspicion for sure around some of these things that definitely look suspicious. 100,000% about. Around that. Yes.

[April Ajoy]

Oh, yeah, no, it is super suspicious because even up until, what, a couple months ago, they were like, yes, we're going to release the Epstein files. We're going to release the list that was like, Trump campaigned on. That campaigned on it. And then to do this 180. We're like, actually there was no foul play at all. Everything was. I don't know. It is interesting, though.

[Tim Whitaker]

I mean, let's do this. Yeah, go ahead.

[April Ajoy]

I was going to say Jeffrey Epstein died in 2019. August of 2019. So Donald Trump was president when it happened.

[Tim Whitaker]

Wow, interesting. Yeah.

[April Ajoy]

These people. I am not a conspiracy theorist, but these people are trying to turn me into one.

[Tim Whitaker]

I do want to play this. We have a couple clips here that we're going to play. So this is a very short montage, just a minute or two of Kash Patel and is his name Bongino? Dan Bongino. These were both people deep in the MAGA world before they became the director of the FBI and the deputy to the director of the FBI. And I'm going to play kind of.

[April Ajoy]

A guy on the left is not Dan.

[Tim Whitaker]

No, no, no, sorry. The guy left. This is Benny Johnson. Dan Bongino is over here. This is him. Okay. Both of these people come from, like, the MAGA pundit world and Trump. Well, one's a lawyer, but the other one comes from, like, the podcast world. And Trump made them in charge of the FBI. So this is going to be the first couple clips are going to be them before they got in charge of the FBI talking about Epstein and. And then after, when they were able to see all the files. Just listen to this. Here we go. Prince Andrew, you say that the FBI has Epstein's list. They're sitting on it. This is before. Doesn't seem like something you should do. You're protecting the world's foremost predator. That seems like an evil thing to do, regardless of who may be embarrassed in the release of that list. Why is the FBI protecting the greatest in human history? Simple. Because of who's on that list. Who killed Jeffrey Epstein. This doesn't look right. It doesn't look like a suicide. You know, Epstein's an intelligence asset for people in the Middle east right now. Like, no, I didn't know that. I'm like, you sure that the person, let's say, is like, I'm absolutely sure that his plane and that island, the cameras. There's a big assumption out there that these videotapes were exclusively in the custody of Epstein. That's a huge mistake. The reason they wanted this story to go away is because there's an assumption like, oh, yeah, Epstein, Epstein had him. No, he wasn't the only one who had him, according to this source, these assets. That's why this blackmail story makes so much sense. There are a lot of people who are knee deep in the Washington swamp who are not telling you the truth about serious allegations out there that Epstein may have had video and audio of people out there doing things they shouldn't have been doing. And you should be asking yourself the question, how is it that all these people, the CIA director, the Obama fixer, Bill Clinton, all intersected pass with Jeffrey Epstein? Jeffrey Epstein isn't with us anymore and nobody seems to want to talk about it. You said, okay, so, so that's all before. That's Dan Bongino and Cash Patel. Now that they're in charge of the FBI, here's, here's their answer. Now, Jeffrey Epstein committed.

[April Ajoy]

People don't believe it.

[Tim Whitaker]

Well, I mean, listen, they have a right to their opinion. But as someone who has worked as a public defender, as a prosecutor, who's been in that prison system, who's been in the metropolitan Detention center, who's been in segregated housing, you know a. When you see one. And that's what that was. He killed himself. That's. Damn. You want me to get. I've, I've seen the whole file, the Epstein files. What's the answer to that? The answer to that is the same as everything else. I'm not going to withhold information from the American public ever. But I'm also not going to rush to get it out there in a format in which they can't rely on it. So on the Epstein matter or any other matters, we are diligently working on that. And it takes time to go through years of investigations, years of political maneuvering and years of COVID up to get the American people what they deserve. And that's what I'm going to give them, the FBI. So, so there you go. And so, so all this happens. I'll finish this clip here for now. And now here's what the government's Officially saying now that, you know, they're in charge and Trump's in charge, all of a sudden we go from this is all happening, this is crazy to this. I and justice department releasing 11 hours of footage they say helps confirm notorious financier Jeffrey Epstein died by suicide in his Manhattan jail cell in 2019. But perhaps the biggest bombshell, investigators say they found no incriminating client list of Epstein's, no credible evidence that Epstein blackmailed prominent individuals, and no evidence that could predicate an investigation against uncharged third parties. Alex Costing. That is wild. That's wild. That's wild.

[April Ajoy]

So Jeffrey Epstein was trafficking all these kids to nobody.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right, Right, exactly. I'm trying to see how many. What was her can. Okay, so she was. So how do you say her name, Maxwell?

[April Ajoy]

Whose name?

[Tim Whitaker]

Jeffrey's. Epstein's wife.

[April Ajoy]

Is it Ghislaine?

[Tim Whitaker]

We'll go with that. Ghislaine Maxwell, she was convicted. She's serving a 20 year prison sentence on five counts of aiding Epstein in his abuse of underage girls, including trafficking. And so. And apparently this was going on for a long, long, long time. And I guess he was the only one. There was no list. There was no list.

[April Ajoy]

Can I just say, I've always been, they should just release the list. And people are like, whoa, the Democrats are going to be on it. Great. I want anyone who was doing that as kids to come to light and be held accountable. I don't care what political party they're from.

[Tim Whitaker]

I want to be clear. I might be wrong, what I'm going to say, but my understanding as I'm reading this article from ABC is that, is that apparently four women testified at trial that they had been abused as minors at the Epstein's house. If it is now, maybe there are other credible reports of like this being much more people than just these four women. That could be. But if it's just these four, that would make sense why there isn't a list. And let me just say something. Here's why I get so confused, April. Because I don't trust MAGA or Trump people to ever tell the truth. Ever. Right, right. So my question is, were they lying and building up a conspiracy theory about this list and about these massive alleged trafficking incidents with all these different politicians? Were they lying then or are they lying now that there is no list? That's what I get torn on, you know, because they've been. They've been touting this for years. For years. Biden's on the list. Yeah. Obama's on the list. Every freaking Democrat who ever live is on the freaking list and now all of a sudden, oh no, there is no list. No, it doesn't exist. Like, okay, so which one is true?

[April Ajoy]

That's what I don't, I mean, it's either two things. They're either covering up because people they like, probably Donald Trump were on the, on the list.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right.

[April Ajoy]

Or they were lying or just being very matter of fact about something they didn't know for years. And if that's the case, they owe a huge apology. And I, I, I still don't know how you could ever take anything that they say seriously. When you're, when you're saying there is a list and we know for a fact that these certain people are on it and we want to release the list. Like you can't, right? How they were running on that with no evidence. It's either that it's that or they're covering up now. It's one or the other.

[Tim Whitaker]

Someone in the chat says that, that it wasn't just those four ladies, those are just the ones that came forward. It was hundreds of girls over like three decades. Okay, if that's true, then it makes much more sense that there would be some kind of, you know, it'd be much bigger than just Epstein. But again, it's just, I feel like because of all the conspiracy theories around this case, it's so hard to know fact from fiction. And it's just, it's just, oh my gosh. It just, it is, it's, it's wacky. The interesting thing about this is that MAGA has like really started, A lot of MAGA people have started turning their back on Trump over this.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah.

[Tim Whitaker]

Which is wild. Like, it's not, it's not putting immigrants in cages. It's not an insurrection. It's not those things. It is this that has finally made some of them turn. That's kind of, that, that's shocking to me.

[April Ajoy]

I mean, though, but the way that they drove this, the whole Epstein list, the Epstein's island, I mean, it was.

[Tim Whitaker]

That'S true, that's true.

[April Ajoy]

It was transparency, accountability, main things.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right, right, right.

[April Ajoy]

And, and Trump was leading that too, saying he, he was, he brought up Epstein's list a lot as well. Campaigned on the government was going to be transparent, we were going to release the files. And now they're saying, oh well, it takes time. It takes time to do that. We need time. Do you want to play the clip of Trump snapping out a reporter for asking about it?

[Tim Whitaker]

Well, how about I play this one first? Just people can hear all the different MAGA supporters who are totally now mad at Trump for this. And then we'll, and then we'll, we'll play Trump's response to all of it. So you about the most transparent ministry.

[April Ajoy]

What on earth is going on? Was Pam Bondi set up by deep state FBI career officials? Is she stupid? That's so click thirsty that she got out over her skis trying to make news in a Fox News star.

[Tim Whitaker]

Pam Bondi, all of it all saying, yeah, she's seen the videos, it's all coming out. And then now it doesn't exist. I mean, what, what the Jeffrey Epstein case. You, you do not know all the details of this thing. I promise there are a lot of really obvious, obviously powerful people. This part, you know, but the specific names, we may not.

[April Ajoy]

There were so many individuals that were hidden and Trump's own lawyer kept secret and not been held accountable. What you're going to see, hopefully tomorrow is a lot of flight logs, a lot of names, a lot, a lot of information.

[Tim Whitaker]

The DOJ may be releasing the list of Jeffrey Epstein's clients. Will that really happen?

[April Ajoy]

It's sitting on my desk right now to review. That's been a directive by President Trump.

[Tim Whitaker]

So what happened to the Epstein client list? So, so really quick, so this is a montage. So that was Pam Bondi like a week or two ago, maybe it was.

[April Ajoy]

A month or two ago, saying that.

[Tim Whitaker]

She has the list on her desk. I have the list on my desk. And they gave it, they gave this, this, this, these files apparently to some conservative influencers. Turned out the files were a bunch of nothing that they got. So they've been kind of stringing people along this entire time. So now that it turns out there is no list, now we're going to see a Fox News journalist term used loosely. Question Caroline Levitz, that's the press secretary on this exact thing. Listen to this. This is mind blowing. That the Attorney General said she had on her desk. Well, I think if you go back.

[April Ajoy]

And look at what the Attorney General said in that interview which was on.

[Tim Whitaker]

Your network on Fox News. Go ahead. Roberts said DOJ may be releasing the list of Jeffrey Epstein's clients. Will that really happen? And she said it's sitting on my desk right now to review.

[April Ajoy]

Yes, she was saying the entirety of all of the paperwork, all of the paper in relation to Jeffrey Epstein's crimes. That's what the Attorney General was referring to.

[Tim Whitaker]

And I'll let her speak for that.

[April Ajoy]

This seems like Unforgiven.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay.

[April Ajoy]

So, so that was a very direct question. Will you be releasing an Epstein list? Client list? She says it is sitting on my desk.

[Tim Whitaker]

It is on my desk.

[April Ajoy]

I think Caroline's like, oh, she meant everything.

[Tim Whitaker]

That's right.

[April Ajoy]

Which.

[Tim Whitaker]

That's right.

[April Ajoy]

Like I can imagine for a case this big, there has to be boxes and boxes and boxes. If it's every everything like Caroline Levitt claimed and that all of that was just sitting on her desk.

[Tim Whitaker]

It is just so funny watching these people go from, we have the files, you know, transparency. There's no way Epstein, you know, ended his own life. We have emphatic evidence of this, too. Nope, I saw the data. Nope. It turns out he did. Yep, he did. No, there is no list. It just there. Everything. We've been yelling for literally five plus years now. It never existed. Can we all just move on? Which brings us to this clip. April, Pam, Bonnie and Trump. Oh, really quick. I want to say thank you so much, Joseph Compton, for the super chat.

[April Ajoy]

Thank you.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes, you said. Oh, you. This one. This is why the Bible teaches us not to get caught up in wild conspiracy theories. Isaiah 8. 32. Thanks for sharing. Means the world, friends, if you're just joining us, welcome into the stream. Please make sure to give this video a like. Okay, so let's keep this in mind as we're, as we play this clip. Trump himself and the MAGA world have been drilling the Epstein files into the psyche of Americans for five plus years now, routinely. Okay, and now we're going to hear Pam Bondi, in front of President Trump get asked a question about this and let's hear Trump's response.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah, sure, if I could.

[Tim Whitaker]

I just interrupted. Are you still talking about Jeffrey Epstein? This guy's been talked about for years. You're asking. We have Texas, we have this, we have all of the things. And are people still talking about this guy, this creep? That is unbelievable. Do you want to waste the time and do you feel like answering?

[April Ajoy]

I don't mind answering.

[Tim Whitaker]

I mean, I can't believe you're asking a question, Epstein, at a time like this where we're having some of the greatest success and also tragedy with what happened in Texas. It just seems like a desecration. Wow.

[April Ajoy]

How does he go from I can't believe you're asking at a time like this. And the first thing he said, we've had so much success. And then he goes, oh, and tragedy, like, you forgot we were talking about Texas.

[Tim Whitaker]

Talk about gaslighting. I mean, that's the ultimate gaslighting technique. You have been beating this drum, you and your crew, your own son beating this drum for years. And then, like a light switch, suddenly we're talking about it too much. For asking you questions about things that don't make sense. You are a freaking gaslighter. Like, it is so evident that obviously, and this is why I tend to believe that they're covering something up, because Trump has no motivation to stop talking about this. Unless. Unless this list has. Has. This is all speculation. I'm not saying this is true. Has, you know, like, Ted Cruz on it. Donald Trump. Donald Trump. And unless this list is so incriminating of his own people. Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

[April Ajoy]

Unbelievable that.

[Tim Whitaker]

Unbelievable that we're here.

[April Ajoy]

I mean, I feel like unbelievable is just the theme of life right now. And in all the ways. And not good. Unbelievable.

[Tim Whitaker]

Just here's the weird thing. Okay, here's the weird thing, though, and here's why it feels weird to me. All of a sudden, us progressives and far right MAGA are shaking hands over this. We're like, yeah, I think Trump isn't telling the truth on this. I think something's up.

[April Ajoy]

It is the partnership from hell, where, like, progressives and some MAGA were coming together. Like, yeah, no, Epstein definitely didn't kill himself. Like, on this, we agree.

[Tim Whitaker]

Like, literally, me and Alex Jones are agreeing on something. I don't like that at all. On principle. I just want to be like, no, I disagree. There was no list. Never existed. Trump's right now because Alex Jones says that, and I'm like, yeah, no, I think you're right, Alex. Like, something is real suspicious here. Yikes. Do you want to read the tweet from that one MAGA follower who just completely says, I am. I throw in the towel.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah. And then we've got a montage of Trump supporters turning on him too. Okay, so this is from. Her name is Tricia Hope. She is a. It says she's a national delegate in Texas. I don't know from where, but that's what. She's got. 30,000 followers on X. So she tweeted, I have been to 42 Trump rallies. After the first impeachment, I drove to D.C. and spent two weeks walking the halls of Congress to encourage Republicans to support President Trump. I sat in the hearings and I supported President Trump. I was there the night he was acquitted. After the 2020 election was stolen. Big lie. I went to see 2000 Mules. I was livid at the lack of action. I contacted Dinesh d' Souza and told them I wanted to Deliver copies to Republican members of Congress. They donated 200 copes. I think she mean copies. I went with a team of four to D.C. and personally hand delivered each one. When it became clear January 6th was a setup. It was not. I started helping January Sixers. Listen, this lady, still not great.

[Tim Whitaker]

Are you getting the picture so far?

[April Ajoy]

You know, like, she's like, she's saying all these things as a positive. And we're like, whoa, ladies, not. Not a positive. I met with members of Congress on January 6th behalf. I was able to get a donation of 435American Gulag Chronicle books to deliver to Congress. Myself and a team organized by Trumper Tarian delivered 535 copies to every single member of the House and Senate. I worked for the last three and a half years to help free January Sixers. I organized Trump events. I became a state delegate and then a national delegate. I recently made a donation to the Smithsonian in honor of January Sixers. I say all of this to tell you I am done. President Trump's lack of concern for the Epstein victims and his callous spelled wrong, callous response to the reporter's question ends my relationship with him. I will not support a man who denies justice to the victims, who in this case are children, and mocks the question.

[Tim Whitaker]

Wow, wow.

[April Ajoy]

I mean, that lady was in it and she's saying, that's enough. I'm done. Out of all of the things.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah.

[April Ajoy]

There were many, many other things just as bad as this, if not worse, prior to this. But we'll take a break through where we can get it, I guess.

[Tim Whitaker]

I guess, like, yeah, you think the election was stolen. Okay, we'll talk about that later. But thanks, I guess, for standing on principle and realizing that just now you were being lied to. I mean, that's what's so wild, is like, guys, you realize that this whole house of cards will come crumbling down if you actually believe that Trump is lying to you about this. What else could he possibly be lying to you about? Maybe the election being stolen. Maybe his. Yeah, maybe his big, beautiful bill isn't so beautiful. Like, there's so many things that we could mention.

[April Ajoy]

So many things.

[Tim Whitaker]

Here's a short little montage just. Just one or two people who are. Who are mutinying with their support for Trump vote for this. This is all going in the trash. I do not support Trump.

[April Ajoy]

Trump merchandise.

[Tim Whitaker]

He's a liar. He's a part of the deep state. I do not support Israel. I will not be supporting him anymore. He's part of the deep state. He's committing genocide as we speak, and it's real. Yeah, I'll take that. We all need to start waking up. Amen.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah, I agree.

[Tim Whitaker]

So this message goes out to Donald Trump and his people, and I don't mean his supporters, I mean his. His staff. I've been asked before, what would it take for you to not support Donald Trump anymore? I always said, well, it'd take a lot.

[April Ajoy]

No kidding.

[Tim Whitaker]

I've literally made thousands of videos on this app supporting you, sir. Thousands. So if you're deciding that Epstein is the bridge that you're gonna burn, I got the match, sir. We'll stop it there, because he goes on for a long time. But, yeah, they're not happy. They're not happy.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah. Now, now, to be fair, there are also those who are twisting this in a very interesting way that are saying this is part of Trump's bigger plan to take down Epstein's clientele. Let's watch this. I don't know what this lady's name is. She's on some. What is. I can't read. What does it say up there in the corner?

[Tim Whitaker]

Hannah Faulkner show, by the way, the girl on the left. I've actually met her before at Turning Point America Fest. She's. She is. She's very young. I mean, I think she's, like, under. I think she's like, 16. So she's super young. And she's very.

[April Ajoy]

She's like a teenager.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And she's very sweet. I've met her twice now, back to back years.

[April Ajoy]

Is that her name? Laura?

[Tim Whitaker]

Hannah. Hannah Faulkner.

[April Ajoy]

Hannah, Yeah.

[Tim Whitaker]

I turned the left. Yeah. And this is. This is the guest on the right. Let's hear what her guest says.

[April Ajoy]

Everyone's so mad, as they should be, that he said that. And I'm thinking, oh, yeah, this is brilliant. Like, where has this anger been for the past decade? I have been so pissed, so frustrated, screaming on top of my lungs, you know, touring the country, giving speeches, exposing Jeffrey Epstein. I have been so pissed and angry and riled up about this for years, and now I'm starting to see everyone else bring up that kind of energy. And now I'm thinking, that was brilliant. That was brilliant. He is getting his base so fired up to demand justice. We're probably now going to see the mainstream media go crazy and say, oh, President Trump acts like Jeffrey Epstein isn't a big deal. He doesn't care. How horrible is this? Well, what a brilliant way, Hannah, to get the mainstream media to cover Jeffrey Epstein. I mean, I kind of feel like we're seeing a little classic President Trump Kabuki theater. 5D chess here. 5D chess. I looked her up. She was 17 years old, the girl that was hosting, but she was not the one talking. That was a guest that she had on. But imagine like 5D chess. Everyone's turning on you, and instead of being like, maybe he's not that great, and he did a boo boo, she's like, no, no. It's all part of the plan.

[Tim Whitaker]

5D, not four day. 5D chess.

[April Ajoy]

Getting people to hate him.

[Tim Whitaker]

From the man. Whole point from the man who asks the president of Liberia where he learned to speak English. Yeah, 5D chess.

[April Ajoy]

You know, do you know what else would have got the mainstream media to talk about Jeffrey Epstein releasing the list?

[Tim Whitaker]

No, that wouldn't have done it. They wouldn't have cared, April. You know, the media, they love child trafficking. They're. They. They're all doing it. They're all complicit. Okay. It's the deep state, dude.

[April Ajoy]

Oh, my God. This is very similar energy, though. Let's play that. Can we play this other clip of this is not related to Jeffrey Epstein. I know we're getting late. I promise you this clip. And then we'll get to weird Christian beep and then we'll be done. But there is a man who for the first time, listened to old speeches of Hitler from the 1930s. They translated them into English so he got to hear them before for the first time. Because before they were only in German and now they're in English. And so this is actually a stitch from Good Trouble online. If you follow him, you don't have to play his response. If you want, we could respond. But it's also a good response. But. But he's responding to a man, a MAGA Trump supporter, who is just thinking out loud.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, Just think. With his camera turned on.

[April Ajoy]

Speech. Yeah.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yep. Here you go. We all grew up listening to the speeches that H men gave to the German people and troops. Couldn't understand what they were saying, but, boy, they sounded menacing. It just sounds evil, you know? Well, now they've got AI that translated it into English and talks about Christian values and moral integrity and how valuable women are to a society. Damn, it's not quite as bad as I thought it was. And then it talks about the media being so corrupt, it played a big part in the Germans having their culture stolen from them. Damn. These are things we worry about. And, you know, I can't help but think we might have been on the Damn, wrong side of history. You hear this dude's words for the first time in English, the same words, Donald Trump. We'll stop it there. Because he says a lot of F bombs. I don't want to get. You know, he says a lot of F bombs, which he should.

[April Ajoy]

For the record, the vest bombs are.

[Tim Whitaker]

Well, they are, yeah, they're well deserved. But we're live and YouTube and stuff.

[April Ajoy]

The gist of it is like, how do you listen to a speech from Adolf Hitler, see similarities, right? And what you believe and the rhetoric that Donald Trump says, and instead of going, whoa, maybe I should reevaluate my support for a man who sounds a lot like Hitler, instead of having any sort of retrospection, you go, you know what? Actually, I'm not wrong. Hitler just mudd. Have. Must have been right. What on earth. I hate it here.

[Tim Whitaker]

Did. Did you see Sharon says so most recent post. She, she pulled up a montage of comments made by people with like, you know, got crisis king in their bio celebrating what's happening in Florida about, you know, and making like really racist comments about, you know, alligators eating Mexican people. It was really terrible. And, and you know, she makes the point of, like, if you wondered how things, things like the Holocaust happened, how do you get people to dehumanize the others so much where things can happen? You're seeing it happen right now. This kind of rhetoric that we see from people, many of which have Jesus in their bio or Crisis King in their bio, or pictures of them at church saying horrible, horrible things about immigrants being detained at a concentration camp in Florida. This is how you get there. And to have this dude say what he just said, it's like, dude, clearly you don't know how to think critically. This is your brain on maga, where you're so convinced of your position that you're willing to really ask yourself if maybe Hitler was right. You know, the guy who committed the Holocaust. Six plus million, six million plus Jews, millions of other people, ushered in one of the bloodiest world wars in human history ever. And you think maybe this guy was onto something. That's. I think that's why so many of us are so concerned about the future, because we just see these elements that are not only being recycled, but they're being emboldened, right? The fact that we have on us grounds right now a concentration camp for immigrants, many of which are just who are in the process of going through the legal immigration system, right? They're just in the process. The fact that it floods, that it's it's, it's super shabby. Did you know, by the way, I saw a great tweet about this. I think they're saying it's something like, I forgot the actual number, but it equaled out to the government is spending $150,000 per quote, unquote prisoner to keep that place open. And this is the same government, government that thinks that, that, that poor kids don't deserve SNAP benefits.

[April Ajoy]

That is, that is.

[Tim Whitaker]

Think about that, right? Think about that. We're going to spend six figures to detain people, most of which, if not all, are nonviolent, have no criminal history. We'll, we'll spend, the government will spend our taxpaying money to fund that. But when it comes to feeding kids who are underprivileged or the lower class people, people on SNAP who need SNAP benefits, we're going to cut those things because no one deserves a free lunch.

[April Ajoy]

It is so stupid because these are the same people that are against people, quote, unquote, mooching off the government, which is one of their main talking points for undocumented immigrants. But they're actually mooching way more off of tax dollars by having to be in prison against their will. And that. And I don't know if you saw, but there is a CBS article that released earlier this week where they transcribed the people who got phone calls that are at Alligator Alcatraz, which is, I still can't believe they're calling it that, but are at that concentration camp for immigrants who made phone calls that were describing very inhumane conditions. One man said, they took his Bible.

[Tim Whitaker]

He took his Bible.

[April Ajoy]

They took his Bible away and they said there's no religious rights here is what they told him.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes, hello. Hello.

[April Ajoy]

They, they. And so another person said.

[Tim Whitaker]

Paging, paging Megan Basham. I have a great example of religious liberty being stripped away in this country from people. I have an example. They're not going to talk about it because they don't care. They don't care. You know, April, you know that if this was a white person in America who was like pulled over by police in his car for a traffic stop and let's say they confiscated his Bible, you know, Ali Sucky would be all over that shit. Oh, this is government persecution. They took away his Bible. The audacity. But because it's a brown skinned immigrant who was told by ice, by our American government, first off, we're taking your Bible. Number two, there's no religious freedom here. Religious right here. The fact that that will not even Make a dent in their news cycle. Tells you it reinforces the racism that is built into the white evangelical right wing media complex. It's so clear.

[April Ajoy]

It is infuriating. Is absolutely just. Yeah, infuriating. Well, should we be infuriated just a tiny bit more?

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay.

[April Ajoy]

And go to our final segment.

[Tim Whitaker]

I guess so. Ah, here we go.

[April Ajoy]

Christian.

[Tim Whitaker]

Do we laugh? Do we cry? I. I don't know. I don't know. Okay, this clip comes to us. This is. His name is Stephen McPherson. He's one of the. He's a mega church pastor Washington, I think it's called, like Grace Church or Grace Community Church, something like that. It's Grace is in the name. And this dude has made the rounds. This dude has made the round so many times. Did we cover him last week or is it on a future episode?

[April Ajoy]

It's coming. It'll come out Monday. Monday, yeah. There's a clip of him that we respond to on Monday as well.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, that will blow your mind. Okay. But someone sent me this, this minute and a half clip and I want to play it because a trigger warning homophobia. But like, the comparison is so weird and it's. Well, I'll just play it. I'll just. I'll let you guys be. Be shocked and we can cringe about it together. Some of you have been claiming to follow Jesus for years and years and years. You're coming to this church and you don't give a dime or you tip God when you remember to. And as God is my witness, man, with all the love in my heart, you know I love you. You know I love you. You may not like what I said, but you cannot say I do not love you if you're sitting here and claiming to be a stronger man and wearing the gear. And you are not tithing to God through this church. And you're some alpha male that likes to look down on all those gay sex men. Just know that God views you and those men as the same. Don't sit here, here on your high alpha male horse. Look at all these perverts out there having sex with men. When you withhold from God his tithe, God views that man and you as one and the same. You're like, are you trying to shame me 1000%? I'm trying to shame you. But he loves you. You're like, is that biblical? You've never read the book, have you? Verse 6. I say all this to shame you. That's a verse in the Bible. It's literally an inspired verse in the Bible. I say all this to shame you. Paul's like, don't sit there and pretend to be a stronger man when you have this blinding, damning sin of greed in your life that you refuse to deal with. You know what's interesting?

[April Ajoy]

He doesn't have to say, gay men, sex.

[Tim Whitaker]

Gay men, sex. Also, there's a lot of verses in the Bible, the inspired Bible, according to Stephen, about idolatry. I think preaching the word of God in his words with an American flag hat on is kind of idolatrous, but I'm no expert. What do I know?

[April Ajoy]

I mean, I went to church when a lot of people thought it was bad to even wear a hat in the sanctuary. It wasn't reverent.

[Tim Whitaker]

Did, did, did, did he say, by the way, tip God. Hold on, I'm going to play this again just to begin again. Some of you have been claiming to follow Jesus for years and years and years. You're coming to this church and you don't give a dime, or you tip God when you remember to. You tip God when you. What does that mean? Like, oh, God, you healed me five bucks.

[April Ajoy]

You know, I think that probably means, you know, you're not given the full 10% tithe.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, it's like a little.

[April Ajoy]

You know what's wild, though? I feel like this is similar vibes to Riley Gaines announcing her pregnancy, like, using transphobia to announce she's pregnant. And here he is using homophobia to like, like, shame people into giving him money. Now, rest assured, he's asking people to give money to support his livelihood.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right.

[April Ajoy]

I think someone else needs to feel some shame here.

[Tim Whitaker]

You're not giving to God. You're giving to this man and the people who are employed here. You know, it's. It's ironic. It's. It's wild. I. Look, I. Obviously, even by evangelical standards. Okay, obviously, April, you and I are fully affirming this man's a bigot. That all goes, you know, without saying, but even by evangelical sermon illustration standards, this is a weird one. Some of you alpha males are just as perverted as the gay sex men because you don't give me money to pay my salary.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah, the way he said it, too, he was, like, so uncomfortable. He's like, you're. You're nothing worse than those gay sex men. Gay sex men like you, first of all, you can just call them gay. You don't be like, gay, gay sex. Like, they bring sex into everything.

[Tim Whitaker]

They're obsessed.

[April Ajoy]

No queer person is walking around being like, I'm a. I'm A gay sex man?

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah.

[April Ajoy]

You just say you're gay.

[Tim Whitaker]

Well, could you. Could you imagine a gay person tipping their waiter and being like, also, I'm a gay sex man. These things are related. My. The money I just gave you is related to my sexual identity completely. Like, no. These people are obsessed. They're obsessed with gay people. Obsessed. All they do is talk about this stuff. I mean, Mark Driscoll. Mark Driscoll is another one. Remember, he called women penis homes. These men are obsessed. They are projecting. I don't talk about sex or think about it nearly as much as I did when I was an evangelical. Like, it's just. I have no shame around it now. I don't think about it. Like, oh, I can't think about it. I'm like, I could think about it, but maybe later, I don't know, you know, Like, I'm not obsessed. These people cannot stop talking about trans people and gay people and gay sex. They're the ones who are obsessed. They're upset, sad. To the point where in the middle of trying to manipulate men in your congregation to give you money, you bring up gay sex men. Your language, Stephen, not mine.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah, and just tell alpha males that. That's what they're like if you don't try.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, yeah. You're just like those men who have.

[April Ajoy]

Gay men, those gay sex men. And then he goes, not just men, gay sex men. Would that make him a straight sex man?

[Tim Whitaker]

Well. Well, he's a straight alpha sex man. Obviously. He's wearing. He's wearing an American flag on his hat and plaid and he has a beard. Obviously.

[April Ajoy]

This guy, sex man.

[Tim Whitaker]

This guy is projecting. Alpha male. Yeah. Patriot sex Ben Vibes. Clearly, April.

[April Ajoy]

Oh, my God.

[Tim Whitaker]

Also, I think it's interesting how he says in the beginning. He says it. He says it here. I was my witness, man, with all the love in my heart. You know I love you. You know I love you. And then he says, you're like, are you trying to shame me? A thousand percent, I'm trying to shame you. You know I love you, man.

[April Ajoy]

You know I love you. I just equate you to those gay sex men.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, Yeah. I am trying to shame you, you shameful bastard. Not giving me money. This is like. This is like righteous gemstone shit. You know what I mean? Like, that's what it sounds like.

[April Ajoy]

There is this.

[Tim Whitaker]

So you're not giving me money, and so I'm here to shame you and compare you to gay sex men. Like, wow. But you know I love you men. Men. You know I Love you. You know I love you, but you got to pay my salary. You got to pay my bills, but I love you, men, but you got to pay it. Come on.

[April Ajoy]

Gosh.

[Tim Whitaker]

You know, I got to say. I got to say, you and I have a hard time doing anything with money. I even feel weird having the phrase all super chats get read live on our screen. Okay. I feel weird asking for donations as a nonprofit. You feel weird promoting your book half the time. I almost wish I had the kind of audacity to be like, you should tithe to God and convince people to give me money so I can pay my bills while using that kind of language. I almost wish I had that kind of goal.

[April Ajoy]

The spiritual manipulation that's right there at the beginning where he said, you're not. You are just as bad as them. When you don't give money to God through this church, he is equating giving money to that church as giving money directly to God. Which that's not abnormal. That is a very regular thing that evangelical churches do. I will say in my deconstruction process when I realized how, like, what we base the idea that we have to tithe 10% to the church that, like, scripturally, it's very minimal.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, yeah. Nothing in the New Testament of a thing. No. There's no command from Paul, no command from Jesus to tie 10 of your income to your church. Just saying. Stephen. Yeah. You know, Stephen picked out literally, like. Like, three words in the Bible that you know about shame and. And uses that as proof that the Bible gives him permission to shame people. But there's no command from the apostle Paul or anywhere in the New Testament to tithe. And somehow this is, like us established biblical fact. It's. It's wild to me.

[April Ajoy]

Also, there's a verse that I always heard, anytime the offering time would come around was that God loves a cheerful giver. So then, like, you're shaming people to give, but you better do it with a smile on your face.

[Tim Whitaker]

I wish I was smart enough to tell my pastor. Yeah, he does so give me money.

[April Ajoy]

Like, you be cheerful.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, you be cheerful. Here, how about a reverse tithe? You give us all the money.

[April Ajoy]

Anyway, it was a little long today. Oh, wait, we missed a super chat.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, did we?

[April Ajoy]

I believe so.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, you're right. This one.

[April Ajoy]

Yes. Thank you. System of an up. Oh, I like that little play on words there. Thank you for shining light on all this. Makes the weekly whiplash a little more bearable. My wife and I love the weird Christian beep segment.

[Tim Whitaker]

I do so much.

[April Ajoy]

I love that too.

[Tim Whitaker]

Honestly, I love the show. I love doing the show.

[April Ajoy]

Did we miss any more?

[Tim Whitaker]

No. Oh, we had one that said, tim, you're cutting in and out. Thank you, Laurel. That was earlier today in, in the stream. But no, we got all other ones. Honestly, I love doing this stream. We love doing this show. It's a blast. So thanks so much friends, for being here. It means the world. And make sure please to subscribe to the channel.

[April Ajoy]

Subscribe?

[Tim Whitaker]

We go live every Thursday at 12 o' clock Eastern and we release a prerecorded episode on Mondays. If you're more of an audio only person, fear not, you can get this show on podcast as well. Good show, April. We covered a lot of stuff, a lot of news. Friends, we'll keep you all apprised as things develop. Oh, wait, wait. What's this? Last minute super chat just came in. We gotta read it.

[April Ajoy]

Whoa.

[Tim Whitaker]

Gotta read it. Wow.

[April Ajoy]

Oh, wow. Thank you. Just here tithing so I don't become one of them gay sex men. We could have used that.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, we could have used that.

[April Ajoy]

Although I feel like I would say like tithe to us so you can become a gay sex man.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[April Ajoy]

Not a bad thing at all.

[Tim Whitaker]

Thank you. Thank you, Kat, for giving to God. Thank you for giving to God. Yes, we appreciate that.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah, just. Just kidding. That's a joke. We're not. We're not God. Giving to us is not equivalent to giving to God.

[Tim Whitaker]

If you want to support us, you can super chat or you can buy some of our merch. That also helps. So that's all available. Is that it, April? I think that's all.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah, I, I. That super chat was funny. Yes, I do believe that's all. You can catch us Monday. We're gonna respond to some more clips and then we'll be back live next Thursday, 12 Eastern.

[Tim Whitaker]

As always, I'm Tim Whitaker.

[April Ajoy]

I'm April Ajoy. And this has been the Tim and April show.

[Tim Whitaker]

Tim and April show. I want to sync it up. The Tim and April show. Like together.

[April Ajoy]

You want to try it?

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah.

[April Ajoy]

And this has been the April show.

[Tim Whitaker]

Close enough. Goodbye.