40. No Rights for You: MAGA Christian Nationalists Attack Women & LGBTQ Rights

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Tim & April Show – Episode 40

Title: "No Rights for You: MAGA Christian Nationalists Attack Women & LGBTQ Rights"
Air Date: August 15, 2025
Host: April Ajoy (sitting in for Tim Whitaker, on sabbatical)
Guest: Promise Backland (“Eve Was Framed”)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the rising influence of MAGA-aligned Christian nationalism in US politics, focusing on its attacks on women’s rights and LGBTQ equality. Guest Promise Backland, a prominent atheist and ex-charismatic Christian, joins April to dissect a viral CNN exposé on Christian nationalist pastor Doug Wilson and the disturbing overlap between theology, political power, and the rollback of civil rights. The conversation also explores hypocrisy within the movement, particularly around issues of religious freedom, divorce, and selective biblical literalism.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Friendship & Deconstruction: Crossing the Faith Divide

[00:23-02:32]

• April welcomes Promise, an atheist and friend from the online deconstruction community.
• Both discuss pushback from their respective “sides” about their friendship.
  • Promise: “Do you not understand that we have everything else in common? … We can talk about everything we’re going to talk about today and be very aligned in our views and frustration about all of it.” [01:52]
  • April: “The fact that I could be friends with an atheist and not be actively trying to convert you is a sign that I’m also going to hell.” [02:14]
• Promise shares about living in Finland, highlighting the country’s secular culture and her relief at not being stigmatized as an atheist. [04:08]

2. Doug Wilson, Christian Nationalism, and Mainstreaming Extremism

[08:10-10:29]

• April introduces the main topic: CNN’s viral interview with Doug Wilson, self-styled Christian nationalist pastor of Christchurch in Moscow, Idaho.
• Both hosts have backgrounds in charismatic and nationalist Christian circles and express frustration that the mainstream is only now catching up to these threats.

3. Dissecting the Doug Wilson CNN Interview

[10:29-29:59] – Key Segment

• The episode features in-depth commentary on multiple segments of the interview. Key themes include:
  • Theocratic Ambitions and “Every Society is Theocratic” (Doug Wilson):
    • Wilson: “I'd like to see the town be a Christian town ... I'd like to see the nation be a Christian nation ... I'd like to see the world be a Christian world.” [10:36]
  • Double Standards on Religious Freedom:
    • Promise: “He’s contradicting himself. He just said he wants the world to be a Christian world. So which is it? Are you cool with countries like picking and choosing or do you have an agenda?” [12:04]
  • Patriarchy and Women’s Roles:
    • Wilson: “Women are the kind of people that people come out of.” [13:28]
    • April: “He minimized women down to one thing and then minimized that one thing that he’s saying they can do. ... They hate women.” [14:10]
  • Complementarianism and “Voting Households”:
    • Wilson: “In my ideal society, we would vote households, and I would ordinarily be the one that would cast the vote, but I would cast the vote having discussed it with my household.” [18:57]
    • Wilson supports repealing the 19th Amendment (women’s right to vote), referencing the supposed “atomization” of society as negative. [19:18]
      • April: “What does that mean? The atomization of the current system is not good for humans? ... Not good for men like you?” [19:35]
  • Leadership Restriction and Misogyny:
    • Wilson: “Do you accept women in leadership roles in the church and government? … No, because the Bible says not to.” [22:19]
    • April: “Women lead all the time in the Bible.”
  • White Supremacy and Slavery Apologia:
    • Wilson: “There were also people who owned slaves who were decent human beings and didn’t mistreat them.” [27:32]
    • Promise: “Absolutely insane. … He’s literally willing to say this on CNN. You can only imagine what is said back at the pulpit.” [24:36 & 25:41]
  • Anti-LGBTQ+ Legislative Goals:
    • Wilson wants to see a return to the criminalization of homosexuality: “In the late 70s and early 80s, sodomy was a felony in all 50 states. That America of that day was not a totalitarian hellhole.” [27:54]
    • April: “He is actively working to take rights away from women. … And then with a full on straight face say, ‘I’m not misogynistic.’” [29:59]

Memorable Quotes

• Doug Wilson:
  • “I’m not a white nationalist. I’m not a fascist. … I’m not a misogynist.” [28:17]
• April:
  • “It’s like me going around being like, ‘I’m not a redhead.’ It’s the same thing.” [28:41]
• Promise:
  • “The problem is, they don’t view other people as full people. … They think they’re treating you appropriately. … That’s how God says they can treat people, according to him.” [29:59]

4. The Political Power of Christian Nationalism: Pete Hegseth and Policy Impact

[33:10-36:28]

• April and Promise raise concerns regarding Pete Hegseth, current US Defense Secretary, who attends a Doug Wilson-affiliated church and often echoes his rhetoric.
  • Despite Hegseth’s open affiliation with Wilson and Christian nationalism, his Senate confirmation never questioned these ties or his public support for male-only military and anti-LGBTQ policies.
    • April: “Not a single congressman asked him about his connection to Doug Wilson … or about his connection to Christian nationalism or the giant crusader tattoo that he has, which is a symbol of Christian nationalism.” [34:27]

5. Kim Davis, Marriage Equality, and Hypocrisy in Religious Liberty

[36:58-49:37]

• April transitions to Kim Davis, the Kentucky clerk who refused to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples in 2015. Davis continues to pursue a Supreme Court case seeking to overturn marriage equality.
  • Promise: “When Roe v. Wade got overturned ... you know what they’re coming for next, because this is what we were told … Remove Roe v. Wade, maneuver 2: destroy marriage equality.” [38:39]
• The hosts highlight Davis’s hypocrisy: multiple divorces, affairs, and a selective approach to biblical law.
  • April: “She’s trying to act like the Bible says anything about gay marriage. It does not. It does condemn divorce though.” [47:24]
  • Promise: “If you’re working for the government, the government’s supposed to protect the rights of all and therefore you have to adhere to what’s been decided.” [48:40]
• They note the broader danger: allowing government officials to selectively enforce laws based on “Christian conscience” is a recipe for discrimination against all kinds of people.

6. Christian Hypocrisy and Selective Biblical Literalism

[49:37-51:31]

• Anecdotes about faith communities’ double standards: e.g., condemnation of LGBTQ individuals but tolerance (or silence) regarding divorce or other “unbiblical” behavior by straight churchgoers, faculty, or leaders.

7. Satirical Segment: “Weird Christian Beep”

[53:01-56:28]

• The episode’s recurring humor segment features a viral Christian TikTok stretching wood’s biblical significance to support faith in God, which Promise amusingly (and informatively) debunks.
• The hosts point out the frequent cringe factor, false logic, and cherry-picking in these kinds of apologetics videos.

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [10:29-29:59] — Doug Wilson CNN Interview Analysis (Christian nationalism, attitudes toward women, race, LGBTQ+)
• [33:10-36:28] — Political Impact: Pete Hegseth’s Role and Christian Nationalism in DC
• [36:58-49:37] — Kim Davis & Religious Liberty Hypocrisy, Threats to Marriage Equality
• [53:01-56:28] — Weird Christian Beep: Satirical Analysis of Wooden Bible “Proofs”

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Notable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• Promise Backland:
  • “He’s contradicting himself. He just said he wants the world to be a Christian world. So which is it? Are you cool with countries like picking and choosing or do you have an agenda?” [12:04]
  • “If you’re working for the government, the government’s supposed to protect the rights of all and therefore you have to adhere to what’s been decided.” [48:40]
• April Ajoy:
  • “He minimized women down to one thing and then minimized that one thing … They don’t like women. They hate women.” [14:10]
  • “She’s trying to act like the Bible says anything about gay marriage. It does not. It does condemn divorce though.” [47:24]
  • “It’s like me going around being like, ‘I’m not a redhead.’ It’s the same thing.” [28:41]
• Doug Wilson (as reported by CNN):
  • “I’d like to see the world be a Christian world.” [10:36]
  • “In my ideal society, we would vote households ... I would cast the vote ... discussed with my household.” [18:57]
  • “There were also people who owned slaves who were decent human beings and didn’t mistreat them.” [27:32]
  • “I’m not a white nationalist. I’m not a fascist. ... I’m not a misogynist.” [28:17]

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Overall Tone & Style

The conversation is candid and often laced with biting humor and sarcasm, reflecting the hosts’ exhaustion with, and deep understanding of, the Christian nationalist movement. Despite April’s Christian faith and Promise’s atheism, the two are united in their critique of religious extremism, showing that friendship and solidarity can cross theological boundaries when it comes to fundamental rights and empathy.

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This episode is a sharp, unsparing look at how Christian nationalist ideology moves from internet fringe to mainstream power—whether through viral interviews, political appointments, or legal attacks on LGBTQ and women’s rights. Through personal stories, policy analysis, and humorous asides, April and Promise lay bare the bad logic, hypocrisy, and threats inherent in this movement, while also illustrating the value of unlikely alliances in the ongoing fight for equality and justice.

Transcript

[A]

You're listening to a new evangelicals production.

[B]

The Tim and April show, where we.

[A]

Unravel faith, politics and culture.

[B]

Well, hello, hello, welcome everybody to the the Tim and April Show. I am April and I am joined by one of my real life friends. She does amazing content. If you're in any sort of deconstruction space, I'm sure you've seen her pop up sometimes. She's probably most known for being an atheist, though, so.

[A]

An evil, angry atheist. I'm. I'm so grateful you allowed me to be here today, despite my fast ticket to hell that I have right now.

[B]

I mean, we all need that one friend who's worse than us, right? I'm just kidding. But Promise Backland is here. She's also known as Eve was Framed online. And welcome, Promise, to the Tim and April Show.

[A]

Thank you. I love this. I'm so excited to get to hang out with you for work. We usually are just being friends despite people thinking that we're faking that.

[B]

Yeah, we do get a lot of comments because we've made some jokey videos of like Christian and atheists walk into a bar or I've quizzed you before on, you know, the demon horn horns that appear if I sprinkle holy water on you and, and all of these things and if you eat babies, which obviously you do as an atheist. But it's all in jest. And then there's always people in the comments really, from Christians and atheists that are like, y' all can't be friends. You're not real.

[A]

It's so annoying. And I have atheists that will get angry. They're like, how can you be with someone that's believing this stuff? I'm like, do you not understand that we have everything else in common, which is why we can talk about everything we're going to talk about today and be very aligned in our views and frustration about all of it.

[B]

Yeah. And I, I get the same thing from Christians of like, the fact that I could be friends with an atheist and not be actively trying to convert you is a sign that I'm also going to hell. So, you know, we're going to hell for different reasons, but we're still going there. Yes. It'll be a good time.

[A]

At least we'll be.

[B]

Yeah, at least we'll be together. I need, I need people to know where you are in the world right now, though, because it's, it's so fascinating and different. Tell us where you are.

[A]

It is different. I am in Finland. My husband's from Finland and I'm working on basically immigrating here. I've. We've been living here and I'm going through all that process and waiting on my paperwork and stuff. But I'm specifically right now in a 200 year old. It's called a savu sauna, but it's a smoke, a smoke sauna cabin. So it was where people would have sauna like 200 years ago. Now it's just a cabin.

[B]

Are you saying. What is, are you saying sauna?

[A]

Yeah, sounds. So let me educate everyone real quick on behalf of my new favorite country. Sauna. Not sauna. Sauna. S A U N A is actually a Finnish word and that is how you say it. But the rest of the world got a hold of it and us Americans specifically reduced it to sauna. But it's sauna.

[B]

Right, but you said sauna before you married a Finnish person, right?

[A]

I did, I did, yeah. I absolutely did.

[B]

So you've been corrected by the finish?

[A]

I have, yes. Really hard to fit in.

[B]

Well, I think you're doing a good job because weren't you, weren't you on like Finland's national news or something recently?

[A]

That was wild. I made it onto, yeah, Finland's, I think it's called. It's kind of like their npr. I can't even begin to pronounce it because it's with a Y and saying Y's in Finnish is impossible. But they had me on and, you know, then the journalist sent it to me and it starts with like mega influencer promise back, which was hilarious. And it was on the radio. So my husband's family members and friends were like calling and texting and I thought that being here, things would be a little more chill. But then I, I got that little taste of Finnish publicity. It was fun though. They're very nice. And nobody's angry at me for being an atheist, which is one of the coolest things.

[B]

Oh, that's nice. Yeah, because it's pretty secularized, right? Finland overall.

[A]

Yes. Yeah. Well, it's interesting because they have a state church, but it's regulated by the government, so they, you know, have to comply with everything, which. It works for a small country like this.

[B]

Yeah. I have to, I not going to lie. I'm a little jealous sometimes when I see you posting a picture of you in a beautiful flowy dress and a flower crown and a field of flowers, and I'm like, what, what sort of fantasy life are you living right now?

[A]

It, it has been really nice and I, you know, I'm working on my book and so being here and like writing the book, I feel like I'm just watching everything back at home just kind of burn. And I feel so bad because I'm just like in this field writing all about it, but not in it. Which has been nice for writing though, I will say that.

[B]

Yeah, I would imagine. Well, everyone needs to go. Follow promise. She's veewasframed everywhere so that you can get updates for her book that I know is going to be absolutely amazing when it's done. Especially because you're writing in such a peaceful feeling. Feel like you can't write bad things when you're just surrounded by peaceful forest in midsummer. Because is it midsummer right now or is that over?

[A]

Midsummer is a one day holiday, so that was like summer solstice.

[B]

Yeah, got it.

[A]

You learn like you learn something new all the time here.

[B]

All night almost.

[A]

Yeah, it did last all night. Yeah.

[B]

Oh, there you go.

[A]

Pretty crazy. Yeah, I know.

[B]

I feel like if someone from Finland's watching, like, oh, this April. Such a stupid American. Like, I'm sorry, I don't know.

[A]

You have to come. You have to come visit. I didn't know any of this stuff. So when I showed up here, I was like, what do you mean the sun isn't setting? What do you mean? There's a glow worm in the grass, like lighting up the grass right now. What do you mean? I'm trying to think of all the other magical things. There's so many magic. Oh, the northern lights. Insane. That was like the closest thing to magic I've witnessed.

[B]

So I think that's beautiful. That's so cool. All right, well, I'm so glad that you're joining me all the way from Finland. I think you are officially the person that has joined this show from the farthest away.

[A]

So the farthest from God and. And the farthest from the U.S. yes.

[B]

The farthest from heaven and from Lexington, Kentucky. I lost my train of thought. I was going to say something. Doesn't matter. We have a full show. So before we dive in, I need to lay. Let me lay the ground rules, which is not really any ground rules, but all super chats will be read live on the air. We'll get to it when we can. And please subscribe if you haven't and like. And review this podcast on all the places the Tim and April show. Today will be the Promise in April show. Tim, we do miss you. Tim is on sabbatical. If you haven't for the. For the month of August. So Tim will be back in September. I do have to say, I even texted Tim and was like, I'm so sorry that you're off this week because promise you may not know this, but we're about to talk about, I think one of Tim's favorite subjects, which is Doug Wilson.

[A]

Oh, boy. He.

[B]

If you all do not know Doug Wilson is a raging Christian nationalist. I think he would even call himself that. I'm not sure if he does because there's. There's a sect of, of these men that are openly Christian nationalist and I think Doug Wilson is definitely one of them. And then there's a sect of. Are definitely Christian nationalists, but would. Wouldn't say that they are.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Which is fun times. But CNN actually interviewed Doug Wilson this past week and it started going pretty viral. I think a lot of people that don't grow up in this world because your background for those who don't know is also. You're Pentecostal, right?

[A]

Charismatic Apostolic. I wouldn't say Pentecostal. We were, we were like non denominational, but definitely part of the new Apostolic Reformation. My dad wrote one of the books on seven mountains. Like that's the world I come from. So it's crazy for me to see this stuff with Doug Wilson play out and people be shocked because I don't. I'm sure you feel the same because I'm like, this is what I've been saying. They don't want women to have any rights. They don't want them to vote. You know, so it's interesting for me to see the rest of people catch up on what I feel like we've been shouting from the rooftops for years.

[B]

Right? Did y' all speak in tongues? Oh, yeah. Yeah. So I would see. I would consider that Pentecostal, but maybe just a different sect because you were.

[A]

Also little things here and there.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, we're not here to talk about your story. We'll have to do that another time. But it's. It's wild. So we both have Christian nationalist backgrounds. And so you and I have been screaming about the dangers of Christian nationalism for a long time. So I'm glad that CNN covered this because Death, who is the Secretary of Defense actually is of Doug Wilson's like circle of churches. So. But we'll get into that in a second. Let's just go ahead and play this interview. It's about six minutes long. We're going to stop in interchangeably. This is the full clip that CNN aired because I think it's important to show this man like Doug Wilson is not as fringe as we would like him to be. And I just think it's important that people realize that this rhetoric and belief has real power right now. So let's go ahead and play this.

[C]

Christchurch Senior Pastor Doug Wilson makes no apologies for his beliefs on God and country.

[D]

I'd like to see the town be a Christian town like to see this the state be a Christian state. I'd like to see the nation be a Christian nation. I'd like to see the world be a Christian world.

[C]

And now Wilson's controversial views as a Christian nationalist are gaining sway in the nation's center of power with the recent opening of his new church. And high profile parishioners like Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth. Is planting a church in D.C. part of your mission to try to turn this into a Christian nation?

[D]

Yes. So every society is theocratic. The only question is, who's Theo? In a secular democracy, it would be demos, the people. In a Christian republic, it'd be Christian.

[C]

Well, what would you say to someone watching this to say, look, I'm a Muslim. Who are you to say your worldview is better than mine? That your God is better than mine?

[D]

Well, if I went to Saudi Arabia, I would fully expect to live under their God's rules.

[B]

There is zero percent chance that this man goes to Saudi Arabia and will live under Muslim rules. Zero percent chance. Right.

[A]

And it's like totally cool about it. No, he's going to take Bibles and he's going to go be a missionary and he's going to believe that you're supposed to convert everybody. So that's ridiculous to say that.

[B]

Yeah. No, they literally. There are literally people that will go overseas to Muslim countries and plant underground churches with the intention of converting people. They're not living, they're not just becoming Muslim and living like Muslims do over there.

[A]

He's contradicting himself. He just said he wants the world to be a Christian world. So which is it? Are you cool with countries like picking and choosing or do you have an agenda? Obviously you have an agenda.

[B]

Yeah. Also, the idea that everything is a theocracy is really stupid. It's either run by Christ or it's run by the people. Like, what about an authoritarian situation that's not Christian? Anyway, it doesn't matter. I think he's about to actually answer your question about making it a Christian world. Let's continue.

[C]

Supplant their religion with your Christian.

[D]

Yes. By peaceful means, by sharing the gospel. There's a lot of Work yet to do. I believe that we are working. Our little corner of the Vineyard, Wilson's.

[C]

Little corner, a picturesque campus nestled on the outskirts of downtown Moscow, Idaho is growing by the day with thousands of like minded Christians. Parishioners of his church, known as Kirkers, own and operate several businesses downtown next to liberal college town stores.

[D]

If it's true, if it's true, why.

[B]

Did he yell boo?

[D]

Because of me. Yeah. Well, you had. There you go.

[B]

That's. That's a regular day for you.

[D]

That, that's not unusual.

[C]

A big focus of his Christian movement is on a patriarchal society where men are dominant and women are expected to submit to their husbands.

[D]

Women are the kind of people that people come out of.

[C]

So you just think they're meant to have babies, they're just a vessel.

[D]

No. It doesn't take any talent to simply reproduce biologically the wife and mother who is the chief executive.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Foul.

[B]

It is. I would like to see Doug Wilson push a baby out of a hole that is 10 times smaller than what you're pushing out. And I'd like to see him do it without drugs, which is what I did. Dougie. Oof. Not saying it's a talent, but have you. This man, I mean, the way he.

[A]

Minimized like he, he minimized women down to one thing and then minimize that one thing that he's saying they can do that. It's. They. They don't like women. They hate women.

[B]

That's what's at the root of this. Look at them. Like, who doesn't take any talent? Like, I'd like to see you do that. Like the, the contractions hold. Like having your body not be your own for nine months. Like the end. What does he think? What does he think men's role is in procreation? Like I, I made a spoof about.

[A]

The talent comes in, you know.

[B]

Yeah. Like men are the type of people that people are squirted out of. That's what you are. Like, at least women actually. Like, we birth new life. That is actually amazing and miraculous. And what like the men's role in that is quite minimal. Dougie.

[A]

Oh boy. Yeah. That's wild that he said that with his whole chest. I do love how she's asking this question and she really goes for it. So at least somebody's kind of trying here.

[B]

Yeah, I. It's wild to me that he could say that to a woman who is interviewing him too. Like, and so nonchalantly. Like he believes this with such his. Like there's no the self Awareness is baffling that he's just like so dismissive of a woman and believes it so wholeheartedly that it does not bother him that he's saying such offensive, misogynistic things to a woman who has a. Like a CNN reporter. Ugh. Anyway, let's continue on.

[D]

Is entrusted with 3 or 4 or 5.

[B]

Rewind it back like 10 seconds just so we can. Yeah, we missed that. Thank you.

[D]

Reproduce biologically, the wife and mother who is the chief executive of the home is entrusted with three or four or five eternal souls.

[C]

I'm here as a. As a working journalist and I'm a mom of three.

[D]

Good for you.

[C]

Is that an issue?

[D]

No, it's not automatically an issue.

[C]

Josh and Amy Prince, along with their four kids, moved here from Washington State. Do you see Amy as your equal?

[B]

Yes and no. In the sense that we're both saved by grace. We're absolutely on equal footing. Can we have very different purpose? Yes. Pause.

[A]

There's. That's not an answer to that question. There's no such thing as. Are you guys. Do you see your wife as an equal? Yes and no. That means no. There's no. This is not like that wasn't a nuanced. Do you see her as an equal? Anyways, they. But that shows that they know that it's. That it's wrong. They know that that sounds horrible because they won't answer straight, which is that he doesn't view her as an equal. Which he's going to go on and say why? But anyways.

[B]

Right. They're self aware enough to know that it is wrong to not view their wives as equal, but not self aware enough to know that it's wrong to view their wives as equal. And they're still doing it anyway. I also want to point out to what these people are talking about right here with the male headship and everything is called complementarianism. It's really big, especially in like Southern Baptist circles. And what these men and the wife too, who you'll see in a second are saying sounds extreme. But what they're saying is no different than just everyday complementarianism. Because what they believe is that men and women were born to complement each other with specific roles, that they're separate. Separate but equal or not separate but equal. That's a different thing. Like different but equal. Like they'll say they're equal still, but have different roles. But what they mean is that the man is still the head and makes all the decisions and that it's the wife job. The wife's job to submit to the man. Yeah.

[A]

Funny enough, the things that the. The man compliments about the woman gives him all the power, and the things that the woman has that complements the man really removes all the power from her. So there's no equality.

[B]

Yeah, I know. Okay, let's continue down this. This road.

[D]

God given.

[C]

But do you see yourself as the.

[B]

Head of the household as.

[C]

As the man?

[B]

He is the head and I of our household, yes. And I do submit to him.

[C]

So, like, moving here, I was just gonna say, was ultimately your decision. Yes.

[B]

That's a great example. That's a great example.

[C]

Wilson says in his vision of a Christian society, women as individuals shouldn't be able to vote. His fellow pastors, Jared Longshore and Toby Sumter, agree.

[D]

In my ideal society, we would vote households, and I would ordinarily be the one that would cast the vote, but I would cast the vote, having discussed it with my household.

[B]

But what if there's a.

[C]

Your wife doesn't want to vote for the same person as you.

[D]

Right. Well, then that's a great opportunity for a good discussion.

[C]

There are some who have gone so far as to say that they want the 19th amendment repealed.

[D]

I would support that. And I'd support it on the basis that the. The atomization that comes with our current system is not good for humans.

[C]

And Wilson, a veteran himself, is unapologetic about his view that women shouldn't be in certain leaders.

[B]

What does that mean? The atomization of the current system is not good for humans? Like, just because you throw out fancy words, tough guy, doesn't mean you make any sense. You would support taking away a woman's right to vote because it's not good for humans? What does that mean? I mean, not good for men like you?

[A]

Well, he's trying to say that breaking things down and letting more people have opinions is worse. That less people should have opinions that matter. Basically put, it's the hierarchy. They're obsessed with hierarchy. They want less and less people to have autonomy. They want, you know, fewer and fewer people to have power. And funny enough, the ones advocating for this are always the ones that get to remain in power. Go figure.

[B]

Yeah, funny. Funny how that works, huh? Also, I want to point out too, when he says that that brings up a great opportunity for a discussion, that discussion is just him telling the wife why they're doing what he wants to do. Like him ex mansplaining his decision. The wife still doesn't get a say in that situation. We did have a super chat. Come In. So let me read that real quick from Deanna much. Thank you. It says, as a mom and doctor that has delivered babies, you probably could have seen steam from my ears when he downplayed childbirth. Glad CNN did this. Yes. Seriously, do these. I need men. I want men to just experience the what women feel in childbirth. It is the way that they're like, oh, it's just like such a stupid, easy thing. Anyone can do it. I'm like, okay. Says the man that acts like he's dying if he has a basic cold. Okay, we have another super chat from Dern Sid. They're blaming capitalist alienation on feminism. I do feel like these men will blame. They blame everything on feminism. Truly, I feel like, yep, feminists are the downfall. And I used to believe that as well, sadly, that feminists were bad.

[A]

They blame or they blame it on anybody that's not a straight white man. Basically. That's their. Yeah, the rest of us are just so, so messed up and so stupid that we're ruining the world.

[B]

I'm so glad we have these men to tell us how the world works. So let's hear what more they have.

[A]

My station of the world.

[B]

Yep.

[C]

Ship or combat roles. Looking at the leadership page for Christ Church, it's all men. Do you accept women in leadership roles in the church and government in the church?

[D]

No, because the Bible says not to.

[B]

Well, that's not what happens in the Bible. Women do lead all the time.

[C]

Progressive faith leader Reverend Jennifer Butler is concerned about Wilson's growing influence.

[B]

He is rapidly gaining in power. He has hundreds of churches established around the country. They actually literally want to take over towns and cities, and they have access to this administration.

[C]

Wilson is part of a broader Christian nationalist movement making inroads with the Trump administration. With a newly created faith office led by evangelical pastor Paula White Cain and people seen right outside the White House entrance praying and speaking in tongues. We are standing on the soil of the White House and we are declaring your word.

[B]

How?

[E]

Praise.

[C]

And now there's a monthly prayer service at the Pentagon initiated by Hegseth, Wilson's highest level connection to the administration.

[D]

It's not organizationally tied to us, but it's the kind of thing we love to see.

[C]

For his part, Hagseth has publicly praised Wilson.

[D]

Now we're standing on the shoulders of a generation later, the Doug Wilsons and the others.

[C]

Wilson's influence spans the globe with more than 150 churches. Lennox Calefangwa moved to Moscow from Africa.

[F]

It's really because I wanted to be.

[D]

A Part of a community that was.

[B]

Doing something and especially in building Christian institutions.

[C]

Are there other black families in this community?

[F]

Oh, absolutely.

[D]

There's a few black families.

[C]

Wilson maintains all are welcome to his church. But he's also not shying away from his past controversial statements on race. Do you still believe what you said back in the 90s that there's a mutual affection between master and slave?

[D]

Yes, it depends on the. On which master and which slave you're talking about. Slavery was overseen.

[B]

Doug Wilson has atrocious views on slavery and here he is trying to defend it. That some, some people were, were treated slaves well and some were, were terrible. And I'm glad that it's gone away. But, but keep. He still has, has talked about there was this mutual affection between a master and a slave. That is a thing that he said that he is defending again on cnn.

[A]

Absolutely insane.

[B]

And the fact that like.

[A]

And this, this is what he's willing to say out loud on cnn. You can only imagine what said back at the pulpit when he's preaching and what's said behind closed doors when he's hanging out with Pete Hegseth and these other pastors and leaders that he has influence over. Because I'm sure you are familiar with this. It's only more extreme behind closed doors. Like, what they show is the nicest, most polished side. All of the more extreme stuff is they're waiting for the right moments to reveal their stances or they don't say it out loud. It's more of this, like, under tone of expectations. But it's terrifying that he would even say this.

[B]

The fact that. And not. And, and, and he's not even saying this, like, publicly in his church. Like, like I would understand even maybe a little bit more saying it to your congregants who already believe everything that you believe. He's saying it on CNN to people which that don't believe like he does.

[A]

And that's what's so scary to me about what's happening now in the US With Christian nationalism, because that shows how confident and how bold they are. There is zero like they are. It has been normalized. This is the normalization of Christian nationalist agenda right here. When you can go on C and say this and have somebody sit there and just keep asking you questions and you share more. And then there's a little bit of an uproar over the part where you said women shouldn't vote. Absolutely insane.

[B]

Yeah, well, and I think it's important to note, too, how much white supremacy is rooted in this Christian nationalist movement with the romanticizing of slavery. And I also want to point out too, earlier they showed Paula White and another woman praying at the White House. If Christian nationalists get their way and take over in the way that they want Paula White and no woman is going to have any sort of spiritual role in the government, that's for sure. So that is for sure, they're not going to pick you. Paula. We have a couple more super chats come in. I'm going to read really quick. We have one from Herbie Shine that says what would a woman do with the vote? Clean the house with it, knit with it. Massive sarcasm intended. That is pretty funny.

[A]

I just want a little vote to.

[B]

Take care of my house. We have another one from Stevie Clown 2000 says they need to read the next verse that says husbands are to submit to their wives. Yeah. It is interesting how they as we will see as we go throughout this show, especially when we get to we're going to talk about Kim Davis and the Supreme Court and gay marriage soon. You could see there's a lot of cognitive dissonance and picking, cherry picking of the Bible. But let's get through this Doug Wilson interview because it's about to, I won't even say worse. It's going to stay steadily awful.

[D]

Conducted by fallen human beings and there were horrendous abuses and there were also people who owned slaves who were decent human beings and didn't mistreat them. I think that system of chattel slavery was an unbiblical system and I'm grateful it's gone.

[C]

What he also wants gone, same sex marriage because he thinks homosexuality is a crime.

[D]

In the late 70s and early 80s, sodomy was a felony in all 50 states. That America of that day was not a totalitarian hellhole.

[C]

So you would like America to go back to that?

[D]

Yep.

[C]

Wilson maintains his ultimate goal is to bring about the second coming of Christ through his work and rejects critics claims he's trying to make the dystopian world of the Handmaid's Tale a reality.

[D]

I'm not a white nationalist. I'm not a fascist. I'm not a, I'm not a racist, I'm not a misogynist.

[C]

How far off do you see a Christian like a full on Christian?

[A]

So far he has literally described himself having the attributes of all of those things in his like in what he wants to see play out and then goes on to say that anyways just have to.

[B]

It's like me going around being like I'm not A redhead. It's the same thing. It's like, I'm not. I'm not a sexist. I just think women suck. Women. Women are weak in every single way and men are far superior. But I'm not sexist. I love women.

[A]

Oh, man.

[B]

Like, oh, they're so like, oh, but this is such a good point, though. Remember when you and I were in this world and I was very much against gay marriage and marriage equality, but I would not have said I was homophobic. Right, like, because you're like, I'm not scared of gay people. I would have been like, no, no, I love gay people.

[A]

That's why I'm against them living a life of yes, right.

[B]

It's like tough love. And so I do think that. I kind of think he believes that about himself, which is really, actually terrifying, that he can be actively working to take rights away from women. People in his church say, agree with him about repealing the 19th Amendment, which is to take away a woman's right to vote, which is to take away her voice. And then with a full on straight face say, I'm not misogynistic.

[A]

I think, I think women like that. The problem is, is they don't view other people as full people. Like, they don't recognize your personhood. If you're queer, if you're a woman, if you're from some minority group, then they don't see your full personhood. So they think they're treating you appropriately. They're not doing anything wrong. That's what they're. That's how God says they can treat people, according to him. So that's the scary part.

[B]

I feel like they think if they can be nice, if they're nice to a woman, like if they wouldn't go out and beat up a woman or like, do anything awful to her, then in their mind they're not sexist because they're being nice. Like, it's the same thing of the whole. Like, I don't see color. I'm not racist because I don't see color and I have a black friend. But in reality, they've like, they say stuff like, well, masters had mutual affection towards their slaves. Like what? And then say, not Ra. Like it's the same thing. The way that you somehow can twist your mind into convincing yourself that you're not the thing that you are stupid. All right. This episode is brought to you by LifeLock between two factor authentication, strong passwords, and a VPN. You try to be in control of how your info is protected, but Many.

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[F]

Hi, my name is Johnny.

[A]

And my name is Emily, and we live in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. We started donating to TNE because of a series of events that started right after we left the evangelical church last year.

[F]

I've dealt with abuse from my family pretty much my whole life. It got pretty bad to the point where they started to emotionally abuse and manipulate Emily and our relationship. We talked to a couple of her pastors separately, and we were met with denial, shame, victim blaming, and spiritual abuse. The pastors that we once trusted sided with my abusers and completely rejected us. Once we took a step back from the evangelical church, our eyes were opened. And now it's so hard to not see the situation for what it truly is.

[A]

Ever since we left the church, our friends and those closest to us started to shame us and have said and done many hurtful things. And they have said and done many spiritually abusive things towards us. It made us realize that many Christians don't know how to listen and grieve with those who have been abused and harmed by their religion.

[F]

T and E has been a huge help to us as we're healing. This platform encourages us that we are not alone. You guys have helped us find our voice and learn how to stand up against abuse, especially within the church.

[A]

We wouldn't be who we are today if it wasn't for tne. We would love to see this platform continue to grow and reach others who are also trying to heal and deconstruct, which is why we decided to donate. So thank you guys for all the work that you do.

[B]

So I do want to. I do want to point out this, this. This is going to be a longer section, so we may not get to our third section today, and that's fine. Pete Hegseth, who is the Defense Secretary of the United States government, I mentioned earlier, he goes to his church. And I could see there being some defense of, like, well, just because he goes to his church doesn't mean that he would support everything that Doug Wilson said in that interview. Right? They're two different people. I want to pull up this tweet of Pete Hegseth. This is literally, quote, tweeting, retweeting the entire CNN interview. And he says in it all of Christ for all of life. And if you don't know what that means, I have another video of Doug Wilson. I don't know. He was on some kind of podcast talking about the CNN interview. And the crazy thing is like, these men think that that interview was God blessing them and that like, oh, we're getting our message out there. We're spreading the gospel, like in their mind somehow this is like a net positive, even though the world is seeing them for the dangerous men that they are. But Cassidy, everyone thank Cassidy too. She's our behind the scenes producer. She's pulling up all the, the videos and stuff.

[A]

Can you pull up.

[B]

Yeah. Could you pull up the Doug Wilson video on that podcast? I want. This is him talking about Pete Hexith. So I just heard from Cassidy in my ears that her computer is glitching and that is okay. So we will just talk about how Pete Hegseth also believes these things. He has said that he is against having women in the military. And what Tim and I have talked about this previously. When Pete Hegseth was being confirmed, he already had a pretty public connection to Douglas Wilson. He was already openly going to a church, one of his that's in the network of churches of Doug Wilson's. And Doug Wilson's terrible theology has been around for a long time. It's nothing new. And in his confirmation to become the Defense Secretary, not a single, not a single congressman asked him about his connection to Doug Wilson or asked him about his connection to Christian nationalism or the giant crusader tattoo that he has, which is a symbol of Christian nationalism. And that is something that I find personally infuriating because a lot of us have been sounding the alarm of these men getting into positions of power because of what they want to do. And not a single person asked him about it in his confirmation hearing.

[A]

Why that's so infuriating. And I mean, that's why all of this is so, to me, watching all of this now. Because when I would hear this stuff years ago, I was like, okay, this is so ridiculous. Now that it's becoming more mainstream, that's what's so concerning is like I said earlier, it is being so normalized and are not even asking the questions about it. Like now one's mine.

[F]

Hey all producer Josh here. Just jumping in to let you know that there were some technical difficulties with this stream. Cassidy's computer and probably just streaming from Finland wasn't having it today. So I'm cutting out all of the problem solving there and just gonna jump you in where they do the real Christian beep. And unfortunately, this is a bit of a shorter stream, but thank you all for listening. And we'll be back next week with another Tim and April Live.

[B]

Oh, my gosh. Thank you all for hanging around. I'm so sorry. We had major technical difficulties, so. That's fine. So as we were saying, Kim Davis, this lovely woman right here, she was a Kentucky county clerk that refused to give marriage license to a gay couple back in 2015. She went to jail for five days. Her deputies started issuing marriage license in her stead. So the judge was like, okay, well, you were doing your job. I want to be clear. When you are a county clerk, you are the county clerk. Like, you are the only one that can do the. The marriage license, or you're supposed to. But she got her deputies, whatever. Of course, she claimed Christian persecution. She said that she could not issue a marriage license because it went against her Christian beliefs. She lost that battle. The gay couple sued her, which really, they sued the state of Kentucky because she was a Kentucky government employee, and she lost. So they. I believe I read an article from. It was like, 2018 that said that Kentucky, like, the actual state of Kentucky, was responsible to pay, like, $225,000. And there was, like, a couple other fees, too, that. So, like, taxpayers had to pay for that. But she's now appealing it and taking it all the way to the Supreme Court and asking the Supreme Court to overturn their ruling on Obergefell, which could essentially over completely overturn marriage equality as we know it, which we have. We freaking said would happen.

[A]

I tweeted about this back when being on Twitter was still. When it was still acceptable. And I was pointing out, like, when Roe v. Wade got overturned, I was saying, hey, you know what? They're coming for next, because this is what we were told, like, this was on, like, imagine. It wasn't quite like this. But for me, it was almost like going to Sunday school, where it's like, okay, Agenda one, Remove Roe v. Wade maneuver to destroy marriage equality.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, this is also part of Project 2025 that we also warned everybody about, which is to this day, I do not understand. Gays for Trump. There. I remember seeing signs of people holding on, saying, gays for Trump. Now, maybe there's a chance they were just holding it to make it seem like Trump people were more progressive than they were. But I do know that there are gay Trump supporters. And I will never understand, because this is what they want. This is what they want.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So we have Another super chat that came in from Stevie Clown 2000. Can you really trust a 4 time divorce Christian when Jesus says to stay married? I mean, we are definitely going to get into that hypocrisy. I've got a screen grab of her four husbands. Well, really, it's three husbands. Four marriages. And I don't mean to laugh but it really, it infuriates me how clearly.

[A]

Hypocritical it is from someone who has been divorced multiple times. I, I will, I do mean to laugh at it because the hypocrisy is absolutely outstanding. It's wild. I'll wait till we get into it.

[B]

But yeah, let's wait that. So I, I want to watch this. So this is an interview from, it's from 2018 and she was at, this is like a conservative media conference that she was at. So she's being interviewed. So this, the initial incident happened in 2015. This interview is from 2018. And I just want you to hear from her words what she thinks about the whole situation and if she, if she learned any lessons.

[E]

It was a shock. I, I never would have dreamt in a, just in my whole lifetime that I would ever end up being in jail. And especially with my, my past. I didn't go in jail, didn't go to jail then. But go to jail as a Christian was a, was a real shock. I just, you know, I think God's timing is perfect every time. And you know, if me going to jail is what it took to stir people and to wake people up and to, you know, just make people realize that it's not just the bakers and the florists and the, and the wedding planners, that it could be someone like me who issues the license or it could be a magistrate who performs a marriage ceremony. So, you know, and I think people are realizing that it's not just if it happens, but when it happens to them that they're going to need to be prepared and ready because they could end up being.

[B]

She is a government employee or was. She is like if she felt in her heart of hearts that issuing a marriage license to everybody without discrimination that she could not do that because it would go against her belief she should have quit her job before she discriminated against people as a government employee.

[A]

Because we still like, even though they're.

[B]

Trying to make this a Christian nation, especially back in 2015, we're, we're a secular, we are a secular state. We are a secular nation. We have the separation of church and state for a reason. And like The. The whole. Her trying to frame this as like, oh, it's just because I was a Christian. It's just because I was a Christian. Like, no, you broke the law. You did not do your job as a government employee. That's why you went to jail. You did not go to jail because you're a Christian. Right.

[A]

That's. You got famous and you got a book deal because you're a Christian and this happened to you. That was the privilege that you had in all of this. Absolutely wild. That. That's her take. And if this was somebody else, let's say. Let's say it was me, an atheist, saying that I only believe that marriages that aren't between two Christians should be allowed. And I feel like my atheist views. This is obviously a dramatization, but my atheist views are being infringed upon because I'm having to issue marriage licenses to couples that believe in God. Can you imagine? Nobody would even like. It would be a funny thing that people would talk about, and I'd get fired immediately, but I wouldn't get a book deal and I wouldn't go on tours advocating for traditional values after, you know, or atheist values, whichever fits the story. But you get what I'm saying.

[B]

Yeah. Especially when you're on your fourth marriage. I mean, trying to protect the sanctity of marriage like you protected yours.

[A]

She had an affair, which I guess that's part of her story. She did the whole thing where you, like, you become a Christian, so now all your sins are washed away and now nobody can hold. Talk about anything that you've ever done before.

[B]

I know those are the PJ years, though, before Jesus. So nothing counts back then.

[A]

BJ years.

[B]

That's really good. Oh, yeah. Her book, by the way, is called Under God's Authority. I don't. I. I literally couldn't find. I found one place that you could still buy it. The forward was written by Mike Huckabee because of course, it was. Talk about a disappointment. Let's just keep playing. I just wanted you to hear the rationale, like the different world that these.

[E]

Christians live in the same situation that I was.

[D]

So what was the rationale? Without getting into it too deeply, because I know our time is limited, but this is a situation. When you think about a judge placing you in jail for standing by your faith convictions, that's very troubling.

[B]

Sure it is.

[E]

He told me that I could take my faith off and leave it in my vehicle before I stepped in my door. And I said, sir, with all due respect, you can't take off something that is ingrained in your soul. It's not like a coat that I can take off.

[D]

And you were not really.

[B]

And she has a lot of layers on it.

[D]

When the court action began, you were really trying to. You were just asking for an accommodation.

[E]

That's exactly right.

[D]

What were you wanting to in this situation? What were you wanting to. To, I guess to accomplish or to see happen.

[E]

I simply wanted my name and my authority removed from that license. I didn't want to be any part of it, didn't want to have any.

[A]

Then quit.

[E]

You know, your job, connection to it.

[D]

And what eventually for those that may, they may have followed the story to a point. Was there some sort of accommodation that was granted? I believe that the judge may have gotten involved. But the real accommodation for you and others in your same position didn't come until Matt Bevin was elected governor.

[E]

Yes, I have nothing but good to say about our governor. He is truly a man of God who allows his moral compass to lead and guide him. Oh, pause, pause.

[B]

Campaigned heavily that as a Kentuckian, I live in Kentucky, let me tell you, Matt Bevin was such an unpopular governor in the red state of Kentucky. Like I'm pretty sure he tried to get rid of teachers pensions, like super unpopular across party lines that Kentucky elected a Democrat. That's how bad he was. Like, Andy Beshear is still our governor is a Democrat. And oh, which of course it makes sense that he was a good old godly man. I just want to say, I just want to say if I were a county clerk and using her rationale that she could not issue a marriage license because it went against her Christian beliefs, like the people that she was issuing to. It went against her Christian beliefs. You could do that for anything. Like, she should also not be issuing, as we mentioned, she shouldn't be issuing marriage licenses to people that are on their second marriage because the Bible would consider that adultery. Like Jesus didn't say a word about gay marriage or queer people. Jesus did actually condemn divorce. And I, I do not condemn divorce. I want to be clear about that. I, as I'm friends with promise I would not if I had strong feelings about divorce.

[A]

The divorced friend.

[B]

Yeah, right. I believe everyone should have the right to get a divorce, especially in this crazy awful world that we're living in where men are trying to make no fault divorce illegal, which will just keep women entrapped in abusive marriages, which is terrible. So I'm not bringing that up to condemn divorce. I am bringing it up for the simple fact of saying she's trying to act like the Bible says anything about gay marriage. It does not. It does condemn divorce though. And the, the hypocrisy of this is so infuriating to me because like, literally I, I'm a Christian, so I follow the teachings of Jesus. I could literally, if a maga person came in and wanted to get married, I could just say, sorry, I can't give you a marriage license. Because, you know, I, I believe that Jesus says that we should welcome the stranger and that what you do to the least of these, you've done to me and therefore I can't, I can't support you in that or else I am being complicit in your sin of supporting an antichrist for president among a million other things. Cassie, I just want to go ahead and pull up the picture of the men that she's married and to be and like, listen, Go ahead. You go ahead.

[A]

The, the reason for one of her divorces was, was that she had an affair. The Bible goes on and on about adultery. That's like one of the things that was cited at me. Just getting remarried is considered adultery in some parts of the Bible. So somebody could deny it based on that. And that's my overall point with Christian nationalism and why you and I agree on so much. Because especially if you're a Christian, you should be bothered by Christian nationalism because it is different people getting to pick and choose which which version of Christianity they want to oppress others with. And that's why things like marriage equality matter, because we shouldn't be letting these individual people get to decide. Well, I don't feel good about it. If you're working for the government, the government's supposed to protect the rights of all and therefore you have to adhere to what's been decided. Which is why it's absolutely insane that we're even considering the idea that marriage equality would be off the table.

[B]

I know, I know. It's so wild. And another thing too, like, divorce is something that obviously Christians are willing to overlook because they get divorced. That's why just as much as everybody else. Right. I want to tell a story. So beach my spouse, Beecher is non binary and they were once a professor at a conservative Christian college. And so when they came out they, well, first they. To the president and the president was basically kind of like, you know, I don't really know theologically where I stand on that because really they don't have a theological basis to be against non binary people or even trans people like they use the creation story, but even that it doesn't matter. I don't need to get in theology. So my so Beecher was asked to leave because they thought that being non binary went against the Bible, even though they couldn't explain how they're yeah, that's probably not great. But they were they allowed a vice president to stay on staff who was in the process of getting divorced. And not one of those biblically okay divorces either. Just like divorced. And I remember at the time just being so infuriated because like if we're actually about if it's actually about following the Bible, especially for people like Kim Davis who believe in a literal interpretation where they they say they follow it literally. The the hypocrisy is so loud. It's so loud. Okay, I'm not even gonna play our weird Christian beep. I'm just gonna go weird Christian beep because I don't want to mess it up. So here is this week's Weird Christian.

[A]

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[A]

See for yourself at botoxcosmetic.com Noah's Ark.

[B]

Was made of wood. The basket that kept baby Moses safe was also made of wood. The ark of the covenant that kept the law safe is also made of wood.

[A]

The altars that burnt sacrifices were made.

[B]

On were also made of wood. The cross is made of wood.

[A]

We know Jesus is the true vine.

[B]

Which is made of wood that grows fruit. There are nine fruits of the spirit.

[C]

And there are also nine wine grapes.

[B]

Wine is made and preserved in wooden barrels.

[C]

In Greek wedding ceremonies, they wear wooden crowns.

[B]

And in the Jewish wedding tradition, the.

[A]

Groom builds a wooden addition onto his.

[B]

Father'S house for him and the bride to stay in. Everything that has ever protected us or preserved us is made of wood.

[E]

Because Jesus is the carpenter.

[B]

And dare I say that the wood that he uses to create things that preserve us might come from the tree of life promise.

[A]

Are you a Christian now? I want to say right now, I'm not going to start with I checkmate atheist. I hear, I heard a lot about wood. It sounds like. Sounds like God is a big fan of wood. Of all things. He's like, you know, out of all the things I've created, you know what? I really like wood. Wood is the thing. Here's my problem. First, there's like 10,000 grape varieties. She says there's nine wine grapes. What? I don't even know where that came from, where that idea came from. Maybe it's like that. There's nine maintain red wine. I'm not sure. The, the altars that they were burning sacrifices on in the Bible were primarily made. Oh, sorry, you cannot burn something on a wooden thing. Like the wooden altar will burn. Well, then Moses's basket, we can use her own Bible to demonstrate that that's false. It's not made out of wood. It's made out of this tall grass called. What's it? I think it's pep papyrus. Anyways, made out of that. So already three down, no wood involved. You know what is also made of wood, though? Ouija boards. Ouija boards, witches brooms, Islamic prayer beads, all of those things.

[B]

So I was gonna say I'm surprised that she didn't mention how men, heads of household, and God's biblical order of the family also are known to have mourning wood.

[A]

Oh, man.

[B]

That was it. That was my joke. I was sitting on that for a long time.

[A]

The. That was a really good. Well, that's all I was thinking of the whole time, like, why are we talking about wood?

[B]

And, like, yeah, Jesus is the carpenter, but, like, so many things are made of wood and that's not, like, proof. Like, that's the annoying thing. Like, yes, I believe in God and I'm a Christian, but some of these, like, Christian videos where they're trying to prove God exists are so cringy and so stupid. Like. Like, yeah, you don't believe in God. Well, have you ever seen a tree? How'd it get there? I'm like, that's not. That is not the. That. That's not doing what you think.

[A]

That's actually when. When people ask me my least favorite argument for the existence of a God, I always say it's the argument of look at the trees. So when I saw that video, it was perfect. Hilarious.

[B]

Yeah. We have another super chat from Herbie. Shine says Promise seems to know a lot about wine. That rhymed. Listen, probably because she's frolicking in, like, Finnish vineyards.

[A]

Yeah, you can. You can blame my Google search for that, though. I was. I wish I knew more about wine, but I at least needed to know enough to know that she was wrong.

[B]

Yeah, totally fair. I. As sad as I don't really want to go, but I just feel like we are. We're. This is the struggle bus today. We had a Good start. Yeah, 45 minutes, maybe. I don't know. Promise, will you tell everybody where they can find you?

[A]

Yes, I am on. I guess all of the platforms as Eve underscore was framed so you can look me up there. And April tagged me on her story and stuff today, so you can also find me on her tiktoks every now and then when we hang out because we're faking our friendship and we only do it so we can make content together.

[B]

It's been a lot harder to hang out, though, since you frolic away to Finland.

[A]

I need you to come visit me next.

[B]

I know. I do want to visit. I do think it would be a fun time. All right, well, everybody, thank you so much for your patience and enduring this satanic technology overhaul. I don't know, maybe next week. We're having a Christian on, so hopefully this won't happen again.

[A]

Hopefully it'll work better.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. So thanks, everyone for joining us. We'll be back again next week. Next Thursday at noon, I'll have another special surprise guest and we will talk about more things and, like, subscribe, leave us. A review on the Tim and April show would be very, very helpful. So thank you all. Hope you have a great rest of your day.

[A]

Thanks, guys.

[B]

By sa.