The Tim & April Show — Ep. 50: "Is Your Pastor a Christian Nationalist? Spot these Clues"

Podcast: The Tim & April Show
Hosts: Tim Whitaker & April Ajoy
Date: September 30, 2025
Produced by: The New Evangelicals

Episode Overview

In this milestone 50th episode, Tim and April offer a comprehensive guide to recognizing Christian nationalism—what it is, what it isn’t, and the ways it shows up both loudly and subtly in American church culture and politics. With a mix of humor, practical definitions, and illustrative clips, they equip listeners to identify Christian nationalist ideology in their pastors, churches, and broader evangelical spaces. The pair contextualize the conversation in the current cultural moment, referencing high-profile incidents, shifting political rhetoric, and the influential forces shaping Christian and political identity in the U.S.

Main Discussion & Key Insights

1. The Rapture and Satire of Christian Nationalism (00:44–02:28)

• April jokes about the scheduled rapture and playfully questions who would actually "get raptured," suggesting it’s more likely to be marginalized groups than MAGA Christians.
  • “If the rapture were to occur, I don't think MAGA is going up. …The biggest plot twist. I feel like I would enjoy just seeing MAGA being down on earth and watching all the people they condemned to hell get sucked up.” (01:26, April)
• Tim riffing on Christian nationalist expectations, imagines a TV plot twist where self-righteous nationalists are left behind.
  • “That would be a movie I'd watch. …This real devout Christian nationalist…then, plot twist—they’re the ones left behind.” (02:07, Tim)

2. Why Talk About Christian Nationalism Now? (02:48–04:05)

• The hosts note a surge in discussing Christian nationalism, particularly after Charlie Kirk’s assassination and the associated memorial.
• Tim sets the goal: define Christian nationalism, address accusations that the term is a leftist smear, and analyze three degrees of Christian nationalist rhetoric (from extreme to subtle), using real-world clips.

3. Defining Christian Nationalism (05:20–08:50)

• April presents:
  • The Baptist Joint Committee’s definition: The belief that America is defined by Christianity and the government should keep it that way.
  • Her expanded version: “The belief that America was founded as a Christian nation, that God supernaturally blessed America, and that Christians should do whatever it takes to take the country back for God so He will continue to bless us… It is the elevation of one biblical interpretation to the detriment of all other beliefs.”
  • Opposition to LGBTQ rights, abortion, “woke” history, and support for Project 2025 are cited as policy fruits of Christian nationalism.
• Tim emphasizes it’s about a specific brand (“white Christian conservative”) and a quest for government/cultural control, citing the Seven Mountain Mandate.

4. The “Why” Behind Christian Nationalism (08:50–11:02)

• Christian nationalists feel persecuted and interpret tragedies (like 9/11 or Katrina) as God’s judgment for national “sin.”
• There’s a theological underpinning: to restore blessings/protection, society “must get rid of all the bad sinners”—usually via legislation once persuasion fails.
• April notes conversion mythology (“saving souls”) is mixed with a power quest.

5. Historical Roots: Christianity, Nationalism & Racism (13:57–17:38)

• The movement's modern form traces to the 1950s Cold War era (“under God” in the Pledge added then), but April argues it’s older, rooted in slavery, segregation, and the explicitly Christian orientation of groups like the KKK.
• Christian imperialism/violence is not new—American Christian nationalism is part of a long, global tradition.

6. Primer: Overt and Subtle Christian Nationalism (19:19–71:46)

Clip 1: Overt Christian Nationalism — Joel Webbin & Guest (19:48–24:46)

• Joel Webbin: Defines "crushing enemies" as using legislation and social pressure to make leftist thought a “pariah” (e.g., people lose jobs, status, etc.).
  • “Leftists should be ashamed...they should be crushed. …They lose their job, they lose their livelihood, they lose credibility...” (20:00, Joel Webbin)
• Guest expands: Advocates for tribunals to prosecute leftists—a denazification-style process in the U.S.
  • “It is entirely appropriate at some future point for the right to set up judicial tribunals to try people for crimes… punishment of leftists is fundamentally a process of justice.” (22:20, Guest)
• Tim & April’s reactions: Highlight the cognitive dissonance of calling for “justice, not revenge” while advocating for loss of livelihood and show parallels to historical totalitarianism.

Clip 2: Overt Christian Nationalism Through Spiritual Warfare — Lance Wallnau (33:00–39:28)

• Wallnau casts political opponents (e.g., Kamala Harris, Obama) as demonized “Jezebel spirits” opposing Trump’s “Elijah mantle.”
  • “Kamala, you have a Jezebel spirit…the personification of intimidation, seduction, domination, and manipulation. …Trump has an Elijah mantle on him—probably from the intercession of a million Christians.” (33:07, Lance Wallnau)
• The hosts explain this fits charismatic theology, where politics is seen as spiritual war; Wallnau’s followers are prepped to see Trump as divinely chosen regardless of facts.
  • “For Lance, all of this…convince his audience that Trump and the MAGA movement are the ones sanctioned by God and called by God to save America…” (36:09, Tim)

Clip 3: Subtle/Insidious Christian Nationalism — Pastor Jordan Easley (43:07–71:46)

• Easley Sermon: Pitches “truth” as uniquely found in the Bible (as he interprets), decries “tolerance” as the enemy of truth, and frames liberalism and LGBTQ acceptance as spiritual attacks on God’s word.
  • “Our evil world is attacking the truth of God's word...Political correctness is king and truth is being silenced by the muzzle of tolerance.” (44:57, Jordan Easley)
  • “The greatest enemy of truth is tolerance.” (51:04, Jordan Easley)
• The hosts dissect:
  • How vague language, coded words, and conflation of “liberal” and “devil” prime congregations for Christian nationalist thinking, even if Trump isn’t mentioned directly.
  • How this form (the “moderate” or “subtle” kind) is actually more dangerous, reinforcing biases, victimhood, and resistance to facts without explicit radical language.
    • “This one actually infuriates me more… because of how covert this is… you’re just indoctrinating further people. This is a huge reason why Trump won…” (60:34 & 61:56, April)
  • Evangelical echo chambers erase exposure to real information and nuance.

7. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

- On the Definitions & Motivations

• “Christian nationalism is the conflation of one’s faith with a political ideology.” (06:00, April)
• “The heartbeat of Christian nationalism is always gonna be power and control.” (15:42, Tim)

- On Overt Rhetoric

• “Leftist should be ashamed…they should be crushed.” (20:11, Joel Webbin)
• “This is not revenge, it’s justice.” (23:11, Guest)
• “Abortion is not murdering babies and no children are getting their genitals chopped off.” (24:02, Tim)

- On Subtle Indoctrination

• “The greatest enemy of truth is tolerance.” (51:04, Jordan Easley)
• “This is the insidious part—he’s got this fancy little PowerPoint…and is framing this whole diatribe that is really going against what marginalized people…especially queer people and then women.” (52:10, April)
• “This is how…Trump won…because of pastors…who give sermons like this week after week after week.” (62:34, April)

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:44–02:28: Rapture satire + why Christian nationalism is misunderstood
• 05:20–08:50: Defining Christian nationalism — official & personal definitions
• 11:02–13:49: Jerry Falwell 9/11 clip & theology of national tragedy
• 19:19–24:46: Joel Webbin clip — overt Christian nationalist ideology
• 33:00–39:28: Lance Wallnau clip — spiritual war framing, demonizing politicians
• 43:07–71:46: Pastor Jordan Easley clip — subtle, “respectable” Christian nationalism
• 51:04: “The greatest enemy of truth is tolerance.”
• 58:10–62:34: Analysis of subtlety & indoctrination, pastoral authority’s role
• 63:17–71:46: Reflection on why this is so influential; systemic evangelical bubble

Conversations on Evangelical Subculture & Christian Nationalism

• Tim and April contextualize Christian nationalism as a centuries-old movement, not a product of the Trump era, but currently emboldened by political access and the playbook of the religious right.
• The hosts display empathy for people caught in these ideologies, noting the power of community, the threat of economic loss for dissenting pastors, and the role of confirmation bias.

Closing Highlights

• The episode concludes with a comedic segment ("Christian weird clip of the week") poking fun at a Calvinist apologist’s attempt to acronize “TRUMP” for theological points, again tying the joke back to how Christian nationalist ideology is reinforced through culture, humor, and peer approval.
• “If you’re a white evangelical, everything is approved by other gatekeepers. You’re never going to get a true understanding of any of the culture war talking points…” (78:22, Tim)

Takeaways

• Christian nationalism is not always loud or extreme—sometimes it’s in the subtlest sermons, language, and assumptions.
• Rhetorical focus on “truth,” “persecution,” and warnings about “tolerance” are key clues, especially when combined with references to ‘liberal,’ ‘progressive,’ or ‘woke’ threats.
• Both history and contemporary politics reveal the core motivation is power and control, justified in religious language.
• Being equipped to spot these dynamics helps resist manipulation and remain rooted in inclusive, justice-oriented faith.

For further resources, visit The New Evangelicals at thenewevangelicals.com or connect via their TNE Connect platform. And congratulations to April on the paperback release of "Star Spangled Jesus" (05:05).