51. Mass Shootings and Masculine Frailty: Christian Nationalism Loses Its Angle

Summary

The Tim & April Show - Episode 51 Summary

"Mass Shootings and Masculine Frailty: Christian Nationalism Loses Its Angle"

Date: October 3, 2025
Hosts: Tim Whitaker & April Ajoy
Network: The New Evangelicals

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Overview

In this episode, Tim and April unravel recent events at the intersection of faith, politics, and American culture, with a particular focus on the alarming rise of mass shootings — including a recent attack at a Mormon (LDS) church in Michigan. They closely examine gun violence, the rhetoric and hypocrisy of Christian nationalism, and the troubling militarization and extremist language emanating from recent Trump and Pete Hegseth–led military events. The show draws from both personal experience and current data, inviting listeners to reject Christian nationalism and embrace a faith grounded in justice, love, and compassion.

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Main Discussion Points

1. Michigan LDS Church Mass Shooting and America's Gun Problem

[06:24 – 26:30]

• Incident Overview:
  April recounts the mass shooting at a Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (LDS/Mormon church) in Michigan, where the perpetrator (a white male veteran with mental health issues) attacked the congregation after an apparent personal grievance.

  • "There was another mass shooting this past Sunday at a Church of Latter Day Saints... And how many people. There were multiple mass shootings this past weekend, too." [06:27]

• Data on Mass Shootings:
  324 mass shootings so far this year (per Gun Violence Archive — defined as 4+ injured or killed, not including the shooter) – more than one per day on average.

• Root Causes and the Swiss Cheese Effect:
  Both hosts highlight that mass shootings stem from multiple intersecting factors: access to firearms (notably, assault-style weapons), insufficient federal gun law uniformity (state laws are easily subverted by out-of-state purchases), mental health access failings, and social instability.

  • "If you have 50 states with all different gun laws, it's a Swiss cheese approach... people will import guns more easily from a different state." [11:04 – Tim]
  • "The narrative from the right is always, like, 'they want to take away your guns.' ...That's not actually the position. It's about regulation." [11:56 – April]

• Comparing Guns to Cars:
  April and Tim use the car regulation analogy to drive home the sensible argument for gun safety: licenses, registration, and safety standards are commonplace for vehicles but fiercely resisted for firearms.

• International Perspective:
  The US leads the world in mass shootings by far, with 109 incidents between 2000 and 2022, compared to France’s 6.

  • “The United States leads the world... Next country below us is France with six. What do we think is going to happen?" [14:09 – Tim]

• Veteran and Healthcare Issues:
  The Michigan shooter was a veteran with inadequate VA support, substance abuse issues, and a son with a costly genetic condition.

  • "[He] was a veteran in Iraq, and his friends say that when he came back he was changed in a very different person. The VA is notorious for not giving our troops adequate healthcare access..." [16:06 – Tim]

• Frustration and Cynicism Toward Lawmakers:
  Hosts express frustration at government inaction, contrasting available data and international standards with entrenched inaction and NRA rhetoric.

  • “I'm just so over this rhetoric because it's killing people…” [16:05 – Tim]

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2. Weaponizing Christian Identity After (and During) Tragedy

[18:40 – 24:22]

• Trump’s Baseless Statement:
  Donald Trump immediately claims on Truth Social that the Michigan shooting was a “targeted attack on Christians” without supporting evidence.

  • “This appears to be yet another targeted attack on Christians…” [19:10 – April, quoting Trump]

• Selective Solidarity with Mormons:
  Evangelicals suddenly rally to include Mormons/LDS as “Christians” for martyrdom narrative purposes, despite longstanding evangelical teachings that label Mormonism as heresy or a cult.

  • “They will consider the, the LDS community not part of their group until it’s convenient for them. Until it fits a narrative.” [22:13 – April]
  • “This is Mark Driscoll… They do not think that Mormons are real Christians.” [21:04 – Tim]

• Weaponized Narrative:
  The right uses tragedies to stoke Christian persecution narratives, but drops the story as soon as the shooter is identified as a white, right-aligned male or Christian.

  • “As soon as it came out that the man was a Trump supporter and a Christian himself, they're not talking about this shooting anymore.” [26:38 – April]

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3. Data and Hypocrisy: Violence, Race, and Ideology

[26:57 – 42:39]

• Demographics of Mass Shooters:
  98% are white men; less than 1% trans; <2% women — yet conservative media focuses on marginalized groups when convenient.

  • “Where’s all the talk about the white violent epidemic?” [26:57 – Tim]

• Right-Wing Versus Left-Wing Violence?
  Analysis of recent Axios/CSIS data (see key quote and graph below):

  • Right-wing acts have historically been drastically more lethal and common, but in 2025, a (small) spike in left-wing attacks (mostly property/institutional, not people) sparks misleading conservative outcry.
  • “In the study, left wing attacks are less lethal...compared to right wing attacks that are usually targeting people or people groups.” [37:49 – Tim]

• Hostility to Accountability or Nuance:
  Many on the right refuse to address structural causes, pivoting to “it’s mental health” arguments while simultaneously voting against expanded mental health services.

  • “GOP, I think guns over people is what that should stand for.” [18:12 – April]

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4. Christian Responses: Forgiveness, Compassion, and the LDS Example

[31:43 – 34:22]

• LDS Fundraising for Both Victims and Perpetrator's Family:
  Unlike performative expressions of forgiveness seen in other high-profile shootings, the LDS church extends tangible care to both the victims' families and the family of the shooter.

  • “The LDS Church is raising money not only for the victims... but also for the family of the shooter. I'm like, you know, I'm just saying as far as being Christlike goes...” [31:53 – Tim]

• Rejecting Exclusivity in Christian Identity
  April: “Now I’m at the point of like, if someone says that they’re a Christian and they follow Jesus, I’m going to consider them a Christian. Who am I to say, sorry, you can’t be in my club?” [22:23 – April]

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5. Pete Hegseth, Militarization, and ‘Alpha Male’ Christian Nationalism

[45:33 – 61:00+]

• Trump and Fox News Host Pete Hegseth's Military Summit:
  Trump and Hegseth orchestrate a military “summit” — described as a “TED Talk for Generals” — complete with tough-guy posturing, calls for a “Department of War,” and attacks on “political correctness” in military practice.

  • “If I ever saw an alpha male, it’s Pete Hegseth…” [04:08 – Tim, joking]

• Hegseth’s Militarist Rhetoric:

  • “You kill people and break things for a living. You are not politically correct and don’t necessarily belong always in polite society.” [47:49 – Pete Hegseth]
  • Both hosts denounce the dehumanizing, hyper-masculine, and inflammatory language as dangerous, particularly against the backdrop of rising political violence.
    • “Not everyone in the military kills people or breaks things... it just feels so dehumanizing.” [49:19 – Tim]
    • “It’s building up more problems.” [48:19 – April]

• Rolling Back Sexual Assault Protections:
  Hegseth proposes rolling back Inspector General and Equal Opportunity complaint processes, deriding victims as “complainers, ideologues, and poor performers.”

  • "This is all code for, we're reducing protections for victims of sexual assault..." [51:30 – Tim]
  • "He just gave clear reign for predators in the military to assault people." [52:40 – April]

• No More ‘Politically Correct’ Rules of Engagement:
  Hegseth argues for “maximum lethality,” openly undermining established norms under the Geneva Convention.

  • “We unleash overwhelming and punishing violence on the enemy... No more politically correct and overbearing rules of engagement.” [53:54 – Pete Hegseth]

• Hyperfixation on ‘Fat Troops’:
  Hegseth fixates on fitness as the only qualification, proposing strict height/weight/PT standards for all military personnel.

  • "He’s honing in on the one thing that he's like, 'I could do fitness. Look at me do fitness. Me tough. Me have abs.'" [60:46 – April]

• Trump’s Performance for the Generals:
  Trump’s rambling speech is described as detached and concerning, with lines about “an invasion from within” and the military’s new role combating domestic enemies — blurring lines between defense and authoritarianism.

  • "We're under invasion from within. No different than a foreign enemy..." [66:19 – Trump]
  • "[The right has] plausible deniability. But obviously, given his rhetoric, he's talking about leftists." [66:57 – Tim]

• Audience Reaction:
  Notably, the generals appear unenthusiastic, and even embarrassed—a viral shot captures face-palming.

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6. Christian Nationalism—The Big Picture

[82:04 – End]

• Eschatology and American Foreign Policy:
  April & Tim discuss recent rapture predictions, mocking the repeated recalculations by “prophets” and the harmful real-world consequences (e.g., people selling homes, not planning for the future).

  • “There are people who really get hurt by this stuff ... selling their houses ... or leaving their jobs.” [79:23 – Tim]

• Impact on Climate Policy and Foreign Affairs:
  They note how apocalyptic end-times beliefs (popularized in evangelical circles) drive resistance to environmental reform and unconditional US support for Israel.

• The Antithesis of Jesus:
  The show ends with an appeal to Jesus’ actual teachings—caring for the poor, welcoming the stranger, opposing oppression—which are directly contradicted by the current Christian nationalist movement.

  • “As Christians, we believe that this is an antichrist way of living. ... The expression that we see right now of a white American Christianity is doing the complete opposite.” [82:04 – Tim]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On American Gun Culture and Failure to Act:

  "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. Tell that to the parents of the Uvalde victims."
  — Tim Whitaker [16:05]

• On the Political Exploitation of Tragedy:

  "They will consider the LDS community not part of their group until it's convenient for them. Until it fits a narrative."
  — April Ajoy [22:13]

• On Right-Wing Media’s Hypocrisy:

  "Where's all the talk about the white violent epidemic? ... It's always about maintaining this white supremacist nationalist ideology."
  — Tim Whitaker [26:57]

• On Christian Ethics vs. Performance:

  “The LDS Church is raising money not only for the victims... but also for the family of the shooter. ... I can't think of a more Christlike thing to do.”
  — Tim Whitaker [31:53]

• On the Alpha-Male Military Rhetoric:

  “You kill people and break things for a living. You are not politically correct and don’t necessarily belong always in polite society.”
  — Pete Hegseth [47:49]

• On Christian Nationalism’s Endgame:

  "Christian nationalists are not here to participate in democracy. They are here to erode democratic norms...to rule over their neighbors."
  — Tim Whitaker [67:33]

• On Rapture Prophecies and Harm:

  "It's really sad though, because it. It not only does it harm people that literally think, okay, by this date this is going to happen and so I can sell all my possessions... But also it keeps so many Christians that keep thinking...there's no point in trying to stop climate change..."
  — April Ajoy [81:06]

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Key Timestamps

• 06:24 – Mass shooting overview and data context.
• 10:27 – Explaining underlying causes and car-vs-gun analogy.
• 13:05 – Comparing auto safety standards to gun laws.
• 16:05 – Analysis of systemic policy failures.
• 18:40–20:08 – Trump’s “Christian attack” comments/evangelical hypocrisy.
• 26:38–29:34 – Conservative silence when the shooter’s identity doesn’t suit the narrative.
• 37:49–41:29 – Examining the Axios/CSIS left/right violence report.
• 45:33–61:00 – Trump & Hegseth’s military spectacle; hyper-masculinity and terrifying policy changes.
• 66:19–69:58 – Trump’s “invasion from within” rhetoric.
• 73:40–75:38 – Generals’ perceived embarrassment, audience shots.
• 77:52–83:48 – Rapture culture, eschatology, and real-world fallout.

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Conclusion

This episode renders a powerful, fact-based critique of both the American gun violence epidemic and the ascent of Christian nationalism’s toxic rhetoric. Tim and April combine policy analysis, media critique, and personal reflection to highlight how faith-centered communities—and the nation at large—must reject performative religiosity, embrace nuance, and reclaim a just, compassionate Christianity.

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Transcript

[A]

You're listening to a new evangelicals production, the Tim and April show, where we unravel faith, politics and culture. Hello?

[B]

Oh, where are you?

[A]

Wow.

[B]

I don't know what happened.

[A]

Raptured.

[B]

Wait. There you go.

[A]

Hello?

[B]

My bad, everybody.

[A]

Welcome to the Tim and April Show. I'm April Ajoy.

[B]

I'm Tim Whitaker.

[A]

And I think Tim has it out for me because I was not there at the front. I'd been.

[B]

That's what it is. It's not that I'm producing and have three screens in front of me. Hit the wrong button. I have it out for you. I want the whole world to know it. I have it out for April.

[A]

Yeah. Welcome, everybody. And also again, welcome to Lincoln Square Media because we are now streaming on their substack, which is awesome.

[B]

Yes, hello.

[A]

Yeah, if you're new. Because I think we're still getting new people in, which is awesome. Tim and I, we talk about Christian nationalism as people that come from that world. And so we're going to be doing that again today. Today we're talking about the shooting that happened at the Mormon Church this past weekend and then just mass shootings in general because there was multiple. That happened just this past weekend. And then we're going to talk about that weird military meeting at Quantico that Pete Hegseth and Donald Trump called. Seemingly could have been an email. Is the. Easily I'm getting.

[B]

Do they know that we have zoom? You just do a big zoom meeting, call it a day.

[A]

For real. For real. I don't. I don't know about you, but I've. I feel a little, like, flustered because I'm. My kids are on fall break this week, and so I work from home and really fall break for me is just work with children around.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Which.

[B]

That's right. That's correct.

[A]

Which is just harder to do.

[B]

They were. They were. They were all around during our prep. I mean, your kids are adorable. And I was laughing because I'm like, you know, I thought it was just me who occasionally has my kids just storm into my office space and just start getting in the background and wanting the microphone. But nope, it's your kids, too. So that felt nice.

[A]

I know. Thankfully, they are at grandma's now, right in time for the live. Cause I was like, I really can't just be leaving in the middle.

[B]

No.

[A]

Which was life. That's what we were all doing during the pandemic. So it's kind of reminiscent of that fact. But anyway, yeah.

[B]

Anyway, friends, it's good to have you with us. If you're watching on YouTube, please make sure to give this video a like and subscribe to the channel. We are very close to 10,000 subscribers on YouTube. If you're watching over on Lincoln Square Media again, hello. April and I are two former conservative Christian fundamentalists who grew up as Christian nationalists and we're still very much Christian. But now we're doing the work of exposing Christian nationalism, especially as it relates to things in the news. And it just happened to work out where our regime, Messiah in chief, is fueled by Christian nationalism. So there's never a dull moment when. Which, by the way, I wanna say I don't enjoy saying that. I wish that we had tons of dull moments. I would love to come on and say nothing new. Friends, things are great. We have affordable healthcare, people can get livable wages. You know, we have paid family leave. But no, no, that's not where we're at in life. Also, the organization that produces this show is called the New Evangelicals. It's an organization that I founded that's now led by our executive director, Melinda Hale. And. And we help people find a better path forward in their faith, empower them to reject Christian nationalism, offer all kinds of free resources, have our own community space, do two other podcasts, which you'll hear more about later on. So if you're someone who's looking for that better path forward that still wants to stay Christian, I recommend checking us out thenewevangelicals.com of course, non Christians are welcome there, too. It's not just exclusively a Christian thing, but we really help people primarily realize that there are better ways forward in the Christian tradition than what I would call is the basement of evangelical fundamentalism. So that's a little bit about us. And like I said, you'll hear more as we go along. But yeah, I mean, April, I think a few caveats for today's show because there's so much to talk about. One, we are following the horrific attack on the Jewish population, I believe, in the UK on Yom Kippur. And so our thoughts and our prayers and all of those things go out to that community. It's absolutely horrible what has happened. We also are aware that the government is shut down, so we're not going to talk about that a whole lot, but we know that's also a thing. And we're tracking all other kinds of breaking news. But for this episode, we're really going to focus on two major stories. The Michigan shooting and our gun epidemic problem in America. And then we're going to talk about Pete Hegseth. That. That alpha man. If I ever saw an alpha male, it's Pete Hegseth, clearly. You know, and his riveting speech. Yes, his riveting. I mean, I don't know about you, but I was ready to sign up for our military. I'm like, I gotta. Really? No fat troops. Sign me up, Pete. I was worried about that.

[A]

Spoiler alert.

[B]

Sorry. I gotta tease the audience. April, you know.

[A]

Right, right. Yeah. Also, we have earlier episodes on YouTube or on podcasts at the Tim and April show, where we talk about our Christian nationalist background. And I do have to announce, because I'm really bad at forgetting getting this stuff, but my paperback version of my book, Star Spangled Jesus, which is also about how I left Christian nationalism, just came out two days ago this past Tuesday. So it is available now wherever books are.

[B]

Love that last thing. And then we'll get into our stories. Number one, I am producing this show live, so I have other screens around me, so if I'm looking off as April's talking to me, I'm not ignoring her. And number two, all super chats that get sent to us from YouTube get read live. So if you want to. If you want to chat red, send us a super chat. We'll read it for you. It's guaranteed to get read. And again, thank you to all of our supporters. Tne the New Evangelicals is a nonprofit organization. We do all of our content, including this show, paywall free. And that's because of the generosity of people like yourself. So. All right, where do we start, April? Do we get into the horrific Michigan shooting? Do we just start with that?

[A]

Let's. Yeah, I think. Let's just get right into it.

[B]

All right. Ts off. Go ahead. I'm ready.

[A]

Well, okay. There was another mass shooting this past Sunday at a church of Latter Day Saints of Jesus Christ Church, which is a Mormon church.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And how many people. There were multiple mass shootings this past weekend, too. It wasn't just that one. Which it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So so far this year, there's been 324 mass shootings.

[B]

And how. How do they define that? Because I know that depending on what organization you're talking about, they define things slightly differently. Is it. Is it. Is it four or more people that are injured and. Or killed for a mass shooting?

[A]

This one is by the Gun violence Archive. And let's see. Defined as events with at least four victims injured or killed.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Not counting the shooter.

[B]

So 300 plus. I mean, essentially more. More shootings than days of the year have taken place in 2025. It's unbelievable. So the story, friends, if you have not been following this, the man accused, and I mean, who did this horrible shooting in Michigan? I'm not gonna say his full name. His first name is Thomas. We'll just keep it there. And according to this is Newsweek. You know, obviously here's what happens, right? People always look for motivation whenever this happens because we play this horrible game in America where we want to pin it on our political opponents to prove how terrible they are. And to be clear, April and I are very anti Christian nationalists. But because of that, we also believe in telling the truth as much as we're able to discern it from hard sources. And no matter who commits an act of violence like this does not ever justify the act of violence itself. So it doesn't matter for me, if the person held some kind of left wing ideology or right wing ideology. It's always bad. And in this case. So, I mean, look, here's the bottom line. This is what was going around, right? We saw two images come when this shooting happened. One was the shooter ran his car, his truck into the building, according to officials, used an accelerant on the building and set it on fire and committed then the act of mass shooting. When I saw the two American flags in the back, I thought, okay, there's no way this is a blue haired liberal, as the caricature goes for the right. And then I saw this picture of him having wearing a Trump T shirt. But here's the reality, friends, okay? The data that we have so far, according to witnesses, really makes this seem, again, so far, like this was an act of violence. Because this man, first off, he was a veteran. He did not have access, it seems like, to adequate healthcare. He started abusing drugs and he had a relationship with someone who was LDS or Mormon that went really south and became obsessive compulsive with the Mormon Church. So it seems like there are a lot of ingredients at this point. It does not seem like his political ideology was the main motivation for why he did this. It seems like it was a combination of many things, including access to assault style weapons and that as well. So, you know, I say that because we don't want to come on the show and be like, look, he's wearing a Trump shirt. Therefore, you know, he was a radicalized right wing Christian nationalist that did this. This is a very different motivation as far as we can tell, compared to what happened with Melissa Hortman, who was actually assassinated by a man who Had a manifesto of 70 plus Democratic names in progressive institutions and was clearly a Christian nationalist by all. By all evidence that we had available. Right. So it's just, it's a horrible thing. I mean, it happens too often in this country. And we have a real gun problem. And it seems like for some reason, and I have my suspicions, and I'll hear yours in a second, we cannot seem to get gun safety legislation passed at the federal level, no matter how many acts of violence like this happen. And it's very infuriating.

[A]

Yeah. And the stats show. I don't know if you have that graph that I had sent you from every town, but if you look at states that have more gun laws where it's harder to get a gun, more gun reform laws, they have less gun violence. So the blue here represents the strength of their gun laws versus the amount of gun violence they have in that state. And so, as you can see, there's some, like, there's some variations, but overall, the high. The more gun laws you have directly correlates to impacting less gun violence.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I live in New Jersey, number six here, and we have a lot of laws on the books, and our gun violence is low comparatively. Now, to be clear, among other countries that we would, you know, be in the same category with our gun violence epidemic in the US in general is through the roof. Like, we stand alone in that respect. But when it comes to the state level, New Jersey is one of the safest states for gun violence in America. And you can see we have a very high level of laws on the books to hopefully help that. And I also know that, that most of the gun violence that happens in New Jersey are with guns that come from out of state. Right. So that's part of the problem is that if you have 50 states with all different gun laws, it's a Swiss cheese approach. And of course, people are going to import, you know, guns that they can get more easily in a different state to another state to commit an act of violence. Right. So that's an important piece of this. Absolutely.

[A]

Yeah. And I think it's also important to note too, that the narrative from the right is always like, they want to take away your guns. Like, they like that people on the left just want to completely get rid of all guns. And while I'm sure there are some individuals that feel that way, that's not actually the position of people that advocate for gun reform. It's like, I don't know if you've seen this. I've seen this Argument a lot where they compare guns to cars. Right. We're like, well, a lot of people die from car accidents. Do you want to ban cars? And I think it's actually a good point because people do die from, from, from car accidents. But in recent years, gun, gun deaths have been equal or outpaced car accidents. And when you get a car, you have to have a, you have to pass a driver's test to get a driver's license in order to drive a car. You have to, when you get a car, you have to register that car every single year. So some states require car inspections to make sure that the car is running well. And then every 10 years you have to renew your driver's license.

[B]

That's right. That's right.

[A]

Like if we had that same amount of just checks for guns, a lot of people with gun reform would be happy with that. It's not that we're saying you can't own a gun, it's saying it should not be that easy to get a gun that can kill so many people. Especially when you're talking about assault rifles.

[B]

That's exactly right. Not to mention, by the way, again, let's just, let's keep going with this car analogy. Right. Manufacturers have stricter and stricter safety regulations that they have to meet, set by the government. When my parents will tell me how their cars, when they were kids didn't even have seatbelts inside of them. But guess what? Now all cars are required to have seatbelts. Why? Well, we know seatbelts save lives. Cars are required to have airbags. You know, certain features might have to be standard now, maybe like anti lock braking systems. Right. Why? Because we know those things all go into reducing the amount of fatalities that are caused in car crashes. Why do you think we have rules around drinking and driving? Right. Because we want to reduce that. For some reason, the rhetoric of guns don't shoot people, people shoot people only applies to that. Right? Like for some reason that logic is only applied to the gun. It's not applied to cars or to drugs. Right? Meaning like, like we are always trying to regulate these things to make it safer for our society. Understanding that we know bad things are going to happen, this is life. We all understand that. But we want to do whatever we can to minimize that. But when it comes to guns, when it comes to guns, we stand alone. I mean, I pulled up. So this is from the Violence Prevention Project. This is a really good study. They have a more narrow definition of mass shootings. It's four or more People who are, who are killed. But even by that standard, the United States leads the world. A number of mass shootings between 2000 and 20, 22, 109. Okay, but the next country below us is France with six. With six. What do we think is going to happen? Okay, April, let's look at all the ingredients because this, this, this study actually says that, hey, access to mental health is really helpful. We know that mass shooters always broadcast what they're going to do ahead of time to family and friends, access to guns. It's a lot of ingredients that go into this epidemic that we're having. So let's just be really clear. We live in a country with more guns than people. We live in a country that has no federal gun legislation enacted. That, that, that, that, that keeps guns out of the hands of people, no matter what state they're in. We have a government historically that is gutting access to health care for millions of people. That is gutting access to mental health access for people. Remember there was a, that, that, that, that viral image of the Republican party voting against expanding mental health resources in public schools. Right. So, so that's not a thing. We can't get livable wages in the country. People are stressed out, like hell.

[A]

They.

[B]

Listen, I want to be clear. I will never justify or try and explain away why what this person in Michigan did is okay. It's horrible. It's an attack on the LDS community. Absolutely. But we also have to understand what goes into someone's mind that gives them this outcome. Well, he was a veteran in Iraq and his friends say that when he came back he was changed in a very different person. The VA is notorious for not giving our troops adequate healthcare access. He started abusing drugs. His son had a really rare genetic condition which is a nightmare in, in a country that does not guarantee affordable health care. Right. We know that people are going bankrupt every day because of medical debt. So think about all these factors and you can get access to a high powered assault style weapon. What do we think is going to happen more and more if we keep these ingredients going? Right? If we keep them, like what kind of cake are we going to bake? It is mind blowing to me that we are here as a country when we have data that suggests if we enact these certain policies, we will see the amount of gun deaths plummet. And yet people in our government go, listen, listen guys, the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. It's like, are you kidding me? Tell that to the parents of the Uvalde victims. Right. There were a lot of people with guns who didn't even enter the freaking building for almost an hour. I'm just so over this rhetoric because it's killing people and ranking Quran well.

[A]

And I think because so much of their. As soon as mass shootings happen, which now is, you know, this year we're averaging one a day. Pretty much more than one a day.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Which happens all the time. And most of them you haven't even heard about because they happen so frequently. But the first thing people say are like, it's not the guns. It's not the guns. It's. It's mental health. It's just we have a mental health problem. And then they. They bring. They blame leftists for whatever reason. But I'm like, great, if it's mental health, which I do agree that mental health is a problem in our country.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

But also, people with mental health issues shouldn't be getting guns. Like, it's. It's both. And. And it's just so hard that you can't have a nuanced conversation with people who are so dead set on keeping guns more than anything like gop, I think guns over people is what that should stand for because they really do care about their firearms more than they do about American people. But one thing that really pissed me off.

[B]

Say it.

[A]

About this particular incident was immediately before we knew anything about who the shooter was. Any motivations whatsoever. Donald Trump posted on his Truth Social that this was an. A targeted attack on Christians.

[B]

I got so many thoughts on this.

[A]

Let me tell you. Let me tell. Okay, let me just. Let's just read real quick. What Donald Trump. What Donald Trump.

[B]

You read. April, you do this so well. You do it.

[A]

This was like, right after. Right. The news had broke. We were still learning details. As we said, I had briefed on. I have been briefed on the horrendous shooting that took place at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in Grand Blanc, Michigan. The FBI was immediately on scene and will be leading the federal investigation and providing full support to state and local officials. The suspect is dead, but there is still a lot to learn. This appears to be yet another targeted attack on Christians in the United States of America. The Trump administration will keep the public posted as we always do. In the meantime, pray for the victims and their families, and this epidemic of violence in our country must end immediately. And I agree that this epidemic of violence should end, but. Okay, context clues. He has been railing on leftists for being Anti Christian and targeting Christians and even the whole. They. They killed Charlie Kirk because he was a Christian. They used they.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Okay, so first of all, he declared.

[B]

Antifa a terrorist organization after Charlie Kirk's assassination, which makes no sense on so many levels, you know. Yes, continue on.

[A]

Right, so I want to first point out, as a grew up, someone who grew up evangelical, we were told that Mormons are not Christians, Mormons are occults. Mormons are satanic. And suddenly you saw all these people on the right being like, this is an attack on Christianity. This is Christian persecution. It's like, since when have you ever considered Mormons?

[B]

Since since when Christian? I have a. I didn't tell you I had this, but I did grab a screenshot of Mark Driscoll, our favorite tweeting. He posted this today. This is today.

[A]

Today, today, the rue Mark Driscoll.

[B]

He posts this. Our Mormons Christian comment Mormon for your free copy. The caption reads comment Mormon. To get your free copy today and learn about the 10 Ericens irreconcilable doctrinal differences between Mormonism and Christianity. They do not think that Mormons are real Christians. They do not. This is Mark Driscoll. They don't believe it and they will say it.

[A]

In one of the articles I read too, about the shooter, he. He had said that he considered Mormons the ant, like Antichrist, that their beliefs were Antichrist. So if anything, this was Christian on Christian crime. But according to these people, Mormons are not Christian. So it's just like it's, it's infuriating how they will consider the, the LDS community not part of their group until it's convenient for them. Until it fits a narrative exactly. It's just so. It's so frustrating, which to. For the record, I, I used to think that Mormonism was a cult. And, and honest, like, like I think some of their beliefs are a little weird. And that's fine. You know, like we all have our own beliefs and I'm sure there's people that think I have beliefs that are weird and it's fine. But now I'm at the point of like, if someone says that they're a Christian and they follow Jesus, I'm going to consider them a Christian. Who am I to say, sorry, you can't be in my club.

[B]

Yeah. Yep. I mean, look, we always say Christian nationalism. The core values are what power and control. They will use any narrative as long as it gives them those two things. So if, if the narrative has to be Christian persecution, they will then graft in Mormons to use them for their political talking points, even though it's factually not true. What happened? Meaning like, like this person was probably a Christian as well. So like you said, it's probably a Christian on Christian violence, right? But it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter because truth is always subservient to power in Christian nationalism. Also, I want to point out one more thing that I was, I was going to say earlier, before we switched over to this Trump thing, one of my. One of the most, like, ironic things maybe ever is hearing my whole life that we need the right to own guns in case the government becomes tyrannical and starts invading our cities. And we are literally watching and we're going to see some more clips later on, our regime do that. Sending ICE agents by Black Hawk helicopter into Chicago and Portland. And all of a sudden the NRA and all the right wing, you know, conspiracy theorists about the government coming up and taking over are really silent. Like, guys, isn't this why you wanted arsenals? So you can go to war in case the government over overreaches? It's happening, but. But because it's on their side, it's okay, right? It's not really about government control or tyranny. It's about how do we use the power of the government, right, to be tyrannical over other people. That's why you're hearing not a peep about, hey, this is why we bear arms. Get the militias going. Like, where are the proud boys? Isn't this why you're a militia? In case the government goes crazy? But they like it cause it's on their side. It's just infuriating to witness foreign.

[C]

Hey, everyone, this is Melinda Hale, the executive director of the New Evangelicals. Listen. Every day we hear from people who feel isolated, disillusioned and hurt by a version of Christianity that has been hijacked by politics and nationalism. And yet they still long for a faith that is rooted in love, justice, and compassion. And that's why the New Evangelicals exist, because we believe there is a better path forward. We're creating resources, hosting conversations, and we're building communities for people who want to reclaim Christianity and stay rooted in the teachings of Jesus. But building a movement like this takes time. It takes energy, and it takes financial support. So if this podcast or our YouTube, our educational offerings or community space or anything that we've created has impacted you, would you consider becoming a donor? Even a gift of $5 makes a huge difference from. For small organizations like this, your support helps us to continue empowering people to put their faith into action by rejecting Christian nationalism and to live in a way that shows people how to truly love our neighbors. Together, I know that we could build something beautiful. So visit thenewevangelicals.com support to give today. You can find the link right in our show notes. Thank you for standing with us.

[D]

Hi, my name is Leonard Stevenson. The seeds of my deconstruction go back to 2016, but I started decorating deconstructing in a big way from Christian fundamentalism in 2019. Since then, I've been continually searching for more information and resources to help me understand the Bible and Christianity better. I first discovered the New Evangelicals podcast and Facebook group about a year ago and have found it to be a tremendously good resource for both information and for online community. Before encountering the New Evangelicals, my deconstruction journey had been primarily intellectual. It was through the New Evangelicals Facebook group that I began to slowly understand all the pain that so many were feeling coming from fundamentalism. This gradually opened my eyes to the systemic problems with fundamentalist theology that had always been there, but that had been nearly invisible to me before. Like others in the community, I'm still devoted to seeking God and the Christian tradition, but doing so in better ways. I continue to find the New Evangelicals to be good resource for doing this. Thank you.

[A]

Notice though, as soon as it came out that the man was a Trump supporter and a Christian himself that they're not talking about this shooting anymore.

[B]

No, they were.

[A]

They were ready to go ham and use this as their proof of Christian persecution and then suddenly nothing.

[B]

Yes, yes. And by the way, okay, so we know from data 98% of mass shooters are white men. Okay? Less than 1% are trans. Less than like 2% are women. Yet, like, where's all the talk about, about the white violent epidemic? You know, like, remember the second they think that a trans person is behind a shooting? Oh, we have to. This is the woke ideology. Look, they are transing our kids. It's an evil, evil thing that's happening. But we know statistically that that is an underrepresented population group in America when it comes to who commits mass shootings. And white men are overrepresented. Yet no talk, no talk about the epidemic of white men committing these mass shootings because it's not, it's always about maintaining this white supremacist nationalist ideology. It is so frustrating to witness. But anyway, okay, so this is Caroline Levitz talking on Fox News, right? When the Shooting happens. Here's her take on this.

[A]

The FBI director tell you about the shooter. What do we know?

[E]

What we know at this point in time is that he was a member of this Michigan community, that he is a veteran of our United States Armed Forces. He serves in the United States Marine Corps in Iraq. His family is cooperating with the FBI, and so they are currently trying to dig in and get to the bottom of why he committed. There's just this heinous act of violence. It's unfathomable. And as the President rightfully put in his truth social yesterday, this appears to be yet another targeted attack on Christians. And the Trump administration is fully committed to not only investigating these crimes, but prosecuting them to the fullest extent of the law, but also working very hard to prevent them, to see if there's red flags. The FBI is going to treat those as public safety emergencies and investigate them to try to prevent such violence from taking place in our country.

[B]

Oh, God. Yeah, go ahead.

[A]

Sorry.

[B]

No, you're good.

[A]

Why are they not okay? If they were going to treat this with the same energy that they treated the shooting on Charlie Kirk, which we've condemned that multiple times. That was also terrible.

[B]

Multiple times.

[A]

But if they're going to. They should keep the same energy now. And if they're going to blame Charlie Kirk's murder on. On anyone who ever said a bad thing about Charlie Kirk.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Are they gonna hold that same energy for every single evangelical that has called Mormons demonic, that has called them antichrist, that has said they're of the devil?

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because that.

[B]

That's the thing.

[A]

And that actually is more relevant in this case than what they're talking about with Charlie Kirk.

[B]

Look, let's talk to. Cause we have a whole new audience. Right. This is only our second show doing this. So for those of you out there who maybe did not grow up like April and I did in, like, this white evangelicalism, one of the key things that you're taught very early on, I mean, really early on, is that Mormonism and Jehovah Witnesses are false Christians who preach heresy. Now, depending on what part of the evangelical tradition you're in, you might be taught that they're demonic, that they're antichrist, that they're evil. You might be taught that they're just heretics who should be completely ignorant, ignored. There is. You want to talk about, like, anti Christian bias if we're throwing Mormons into that category. White evangelicalism is full of it. In fact, I. We just shared a clip or a picture of Mark Driscoll selling a course on why Mormonism is not true Christianity. What, less than a week after, there was a heinous attack on the LDS community. And by the way, for those who don't know Mark Driscoll, I mean, there's a whole. We could do a whole hour on him alone. I'll just say this. Number one, 40 of his own elders wrote a letter saying he wasn't fit to lead and be a pastor because of how narcissistic and abusive he was. Yet he has reinvented himself, has over a million followers on Instagram alone, and he's a huge personality on Turning Point USA's podcast. In fact, he was just on with some other Christian nationalists this week, talking about the attack on Christianity and the persecution of the church and yada, yada, yada, because of Charlie Kirk. But, like, this is a man who's well received in that space, right? And here he is selling a course off of the backs of murdered LDS folks. And somehow you're not gonna hear Trump or Caroline be like, you know, these evangelicals, man, like, they're. They're. They're really. They're violent. We should. We should designate white evangelicals as a terrorist organization. That's never gonna come out of their mouth. Why? Because ultimately, Trump knows that's the base that he has to keep feeding to keep his power.

[A]

Yeah. Didn't you have an article, too, that you pulled about that local church it was raising money for?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Was it the shooter's family?

[B]

Yes. So this is actually. I mean, again, there's so much to talk about. I think this is worth highlighting. So last week, April, you and I covered Charlie Kirk's funeral. Right. Live. And we had so many people watching, which, by the way, thank you to everyone who tuned in to watch. It was. It was one of our most watched videos in a long time. And one of the things that. That people were picking up was Erica Kirk saying she forgives the shooter. Right. And a lot of evangelicals were like, wow, look at her saying this. That's so Christlike. But I want to be clear, in my opinion, what forgiveness looks like goes way beyond just some words, because the Mormon Church or, you know, I've been told that Mormon is kind of seen as a slur. So I'm trying to say LDS more often. So I apologize to any LDS folks out there. It's just habit. But the LDS Church is raising money not only for the victims of the families of the victims, but also for the family of the shooter. And I'm like, you know, I'm just saying as far as being Christlike goes, I can't think of a more Christlike thing to do than to include in your fundraising for the family of the shooter. Because they know that, that the wife and the child of this person who did this horrible thing should not be held responsible. Right. And punished for what, what this person did. I just think that's a real Christian ethic. It goes way beyond going onto a, a, a WWE style stage with sparklers and saying I forgive him. Which again, fine, I'm happy to hear it. It actually puts word actions behind the words that you preach, which I think is just really telling.

[A]

Yeah, no, I, I completely agree. I mean I'm, I'm much more, I could care less what people believe. I care way more about how they live in this, how they act, what they do, how they treat their neighbor, you know, and that is a great example of actually loving your, your enemy and loving your neighbor. And I want to be clear, from what I know about the LDS church, they do have some odd beliefs when it comes to black people. And there's some racist theology built, built in there. We're not promoting it as a, as a religion. But also I'm not going to condemn people too that, that have their beliefs. Like everyone is entitled like that. That is literally the freedom of religion. Like we are allowed to believe what we believe. But what you're not allowed to do is enforce those beliefs on other people. Which is why we call out Christian nationalism. Because we have, we have weird people that believe terrible things in our faith too.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's why we are calling that out. Should we get to these super chats? Because I feel like we're very way behind.

[B]

No, I agree friends. Thank you so much for being here. It means the world. If you're watching on Lincoln Square Media. Hello, welcome to the Tim and April show. We stream live now with Lincoln Square on their substack every Thursday at 12:00 Eastern. If you're watching on YouTube, thank you so much for being here, friends. It means the world. If you can give this video a like, if you can do it right now, be super, super helpful. It helps get the video out into the YouTube algorithm and, and make sure to subscribe to the channel. We are like 200 subs away from hitting 10,000. It's a huge number for us and I wanna say thank you to all of our folks who gave us super chats. So Stevie Clown 2000 says, what does Jesus need with a gun? It's so ludicrous that Christian nationalists demand to own guns. Great point. 100% agree. Especially when Jesus says, those who live by the sword will die by the sword. Chosen Wolf. Thank you so much for the super chat. Kelly says $5 super chat. Michigander here. Blank is proud. Pronounced blank. Blanc is pronounced blank.

[A]

Oh, I think I said blanc. My bad. You know what? Literally, as I was reading it, I thought, I don't know if that's blank or blanc, and my head just went blank. So my. My apologies for that.

[B]

And then they say, also, it isn't guns that kill people, it's people with guns. And then we have Witter case another one, Mark Driscoll, which featured on the Charlie Kirk podcast the day after Grand Blank incent, which is insane. Yep, I. I called that earlier and then last one. 8 bit cutman, always in the chat, showing my love for you guys. I've been having a hard time engaging with any of this news. It's depressing seeing how my former faith community reacted. And your voice is so important in this space. You know, we haven't said this in a minute, April, but to all of our friends out there who grew up like April and I did, April, you and I talk a lot about how we still feel just so, like, shell shocked by the state of the world because of our tradition. And I think the more that you and I have learned about Christian nationalism, you wrote a whole book on it with your experience, and the more we've had the privilege of interviewing some of the best scholars in the world and kind of learning all the infrastructure that our tradition built that has given us the outcomes that we're seeing today. It's really hard, and I think it's totally reasonable for you out there to feel just kind of bewildered and feel like you were lied to and just feel, unfortunately, a sense of just not guilt, but just a sense of like, I can't believe I was a part of this, because look at the fruit that it's producing. So we see you. We hold space for that, April. And I feel that daily. I have been doing this work now for four years consistently, and I still wake up going, like, how do so many white evangelicals see what's going on? They see massed ICE agents assaulting women and children, ripping them away from their dads, and they go, this is what I voted for. I'm with you in that I don't have a good answer. It is shocking to watch white evangelicals literally say, we have to boycott Chip and Joanna Gaines. Cause they featured a gay couple on their new show and then be silent as our president says that the enemy is coming from within and that the military should use cities that we don't like as a training route. I. We share that with you. We share that sense of bewilderment with you.

[A]

Did we want to show the quick, just left wing versus right wing violence graph?

[B]

Yeah, I think.

[A]

Or do we want to just move on?

[B]

Look, we have a few minutes. Let's do this. Let's talk about this briefly. We'll take a short break and then we'll get into the other main topic for today. This is an article that came out by Axios. I want to go through it because I read it yesterday and I read the study on it. I want to highlight a few things for you in the audience because you might see this being paraded around by some right wing people. Okay, so this graph came out. According to Axios, there is a study that says left wing terrorism outpaces far right attacks for the first time in 30 years. Now, on the surface, you might be like, whoa, that's wild. But then you look at this graph and all of the yellow in the study are left wing attacks and all of the gray are right are right wing attacks. And that's, that's telling. And it's kind of like, look, I. Again, April and I condemn all acts of political violence. Like, period. Okay? We're never, we're not here to be like, hey, if one side does it over the other, it's totally fine. No, but this, again, this narrative that we hear from this regime, that the left is so vicious and so violent that they hate people, that they're doing all this violence, it's just not backed up by the data. And the actual study, which, by the way, I really, I really encourage you all to read, it's done by the center for Strategic International Studies. They are very clear that in the study, left wing attacks are less lethal because they're usually targeting institutions and buildings compared to right wing attacks that are usually targeting people or people groups. And, and their solution, their recommendation to lower the amount of political violence happening in the country is for the government to lower their own rhetoric. Clearly, the Trump regime is only doing the opposite. They're only doing the opposite. They're actually using these things as justification to raise the temperature and to use the federal government in a huge power grab. Which, by the way, friends, I gotta say this. We have history of regimes doing this in other parts of the world, you know, like in Germany, for example, and it leads to some really dark places. It just does.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And it is wild that the pastors that we know and these Mark Driscoll types of leaders don't see that. Like, it is crazy to me.

[A]

So I think it's important also, also to note that that the, the number of 20, 25, it. That's five. Left wing either attacks or plots.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So there's been five this year, as opposed to one right wing, which was the one for on Melissa Hortman and her family. And I also think it's important to note too, people are trying to speculate why there's been a drop in right wing violence this year, which is a good thing. We want to drop in violence, but this does not account. This does not account for violence done by the government on its own citizens. And it doesn't account for the fact that obviously Donald Trump is in charge right now. And in the past there was a, like, a lot of right wing violence was because they felt like they were fighting a leftist government. And that's why. So, so there's a lot that goes into it. And I don't think it's just, I don't think this graph makes what, like what Donald Trump is saying, that there's just an insane amount of left wing violence true by any means. Because the data, as you said, shows that right wing violence has historically been much higher and causes more deaths because again, they're more likely to do mass shootings types where they shoot a bunch of people or harm a bunch of people or drive through crowds versus more targeted left wing accounts, which, to be clear, we condemn all, all of it.

[B]

Well, it just makes you wonder, like, weird, where was the right wing media when all the. When, when, when, when all of this was the opposite, like, like during the Obama years. I mean, look, again, this graph is very clear. Like we're able to see the actual trends, right? So Obama is, is in this range and we can clearly see humongous spikes in right wing violence. So where was Matt Walsh condemning that? Like, where, where was Ben Shapiro? Where was the right talking about the problem in their own ranks? Oh, that's right. They weren't there because they don't give a shit. They like. April, I don't want to play the superiority game. All of us have our blind spots, all of us have our weaknesses. But I like to think that you and I tried to be as good faith as possible. We have no problem recognizing when people who might share our political views on certain issues do terrible things. And we say that's not what we Want. That's bad, that's horrible. That's a problem. Right? But for some reason on the right, that is not how they do it. They do not care. When Melissa Hortman was literally assassinated along with her husband and dog by a man who went to Christ for the Nations Institute, which is a right wing Christian nationalist school.

[A]

I've been there.

[B]

He had a manifesto of 70 Democratic names and organizations, and they didn't say a peep. Trump didn't even call Governor Walz to say, I'm so sorry for your loss. And somehow we have to accept that as normal. That's just the status quo. That's just how it works here. I categorically reject that nonsense. It is so clear how bad faith one side is. Don't forget. Last thing. I'm sorry I'm ranting today, friends, I'm so sorry I have to say this. So I have to drive the point home. Then we'll, we'll take a break. Or April, if you want to, you know, go after this, feel free. But Charlie Kirk, before he was killed, said a lot of Islamophobic things about Zoran Mamdani. He had a lot of tweets comparing him to radical jihadists and how there's a Muslim invasion happening, all this stuff. And when Charlie Kirk was assassinated, Zorn Mamdaami gave his condolences, said there's no place for political violence in this country, and condemned the act. Okay. We all know if the shoe was on the other foot. Foot. Charlie would never do that. He wouldn't. And you know why I know that? Because we can look at how he talked about other casualties that were done by right wing people. Right. So I. We just have to be so clear about what is about. About which side, broadly speaking, tends to be much more good faith than the other. And, and just call it out. We just have to.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, and sometimes they even mock it. Like, do you remember when Nancy Pelosi guy came into their home and try to attack her husband and they literally were making Halloween costumes about it that Donald Trump Jr. Posted about.

[B]

Yes. So it was not with a hammer. And we know he was radicalized by right wing media because that's what, that's what the trial found out. No accountability, no sense of, whoa, maybe our words could be dangerous. I mean, it's. Yes. Patrick over at Substack says they're using sarcastic terrorism. Absolutely. If you don't know what that is, look it up. But completely 100% foreign.

[C]

Hey, everyone, Melinda Hale here, executive director of the New evangelicals. Thanks for listening to our podcast. I just wanted to take a minute to personally invite you to be a part of our community. At tne, we're creating space for people of faith who care about justice, compassion, and living out the teachings of Jesus in real, tangible ways. As a nonprofit organization, not only do we offer thought provoking podcasts, but on our new app and online platform, TNE Connect, we we offer free educational resources, additional content and a space to connect with like minded people for meaningful conversations and encouragement. So if what we're doing has been helpful to you, if you've learned something, felt, seen or been challenged to grow, head over to thenewevangelicals.com to join TNE Connect or make a donation. Your support means the world to us. Thanks for being a part of the movement.

[B]

Alrighty, we're back.

[A]

Alrighty. Welcome back to the Tim and April Show. We are here.

[B]

Yes. All right. Next, next, next.

[A]

We have. So if you don't know, Donald Trump and Pete Hegseth called a meeting that included all of the general. Top generals of our military that were stationed all over the world.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

To come here for a TED Talk.

[B]

I guess I think that's too gracious. That is too kind. I. I mean, maybe they came to watch a, a washed up, like, you know, trying to be tough guy cosplay as a GI Joe, rah, rah, rah, you know, speech. Thinking that what he's saying is in a land with people in the military. I. It was really bad. It was like terrible. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Should we just. Let's. Should we just start it?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. We got a few clips to go through here and then we'll, we'll get your reactions to your friends. I'm reading.

[A]

Can we, can we also just like, just as a friendly reminder that Pete Hagseth was a Fox News host.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And is not qualified for the position in which he holds.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, meritocracy is code for, you know, like just mediocre white men getting positions of power that they don't deserve. Like, it's. Meritocracy is really their version of what they think DEI is. I mean, Pete Hegseth has leaked confidential information in signal chats with his wife in them. Speaking of which, his own mother said that he's a terrible person because he abuses women. It's just this whole thing. All right, let's just start. Let's just start and we'll go through this by clip.

[A]

He was in the military, but that's about the extent of.

[B]

Cool. Yeah. I have a lot of people I know who have been in the military I don't think would be qualified for this particular role. So here we go.

[F]

A few months ago, I was at the White House when President Trump announced his Liberation Day for America's trade policy. It was a landmark day. Well, today is another Liberation Day, the liberation of America's warriors in name. Indeed. And in authorities. You kill people and break things for a living. You are not politically correct and don't necessarily belong always in polite society.

[B]

Okay. What?

[A]

Okay. I actually think, wow, that is so damning on multiple reasons, because you're not in the military forever, you do eventually have to go back into normal. Not normal, but you know what I mean? Like, everyday American citizen life where you're no longer in active duty and when we're seeing an. An uptick of violence being done by veterans and which. And there's a lot of things you could talk about that. But. But mental health and PTSD is a huge problem that veterans have, especially when they. When they see combat. And for him to tell the generals and the military, like, no, you are killing machines. That's what. That's your purpose. You don't belong in polite society. Like, that's just going to be building up more problems that were. I don't even understand the point of that.

[B]

Well, what gets me is, first off, not everyone in the military kills people or breaks things. Like, people do all kinds of jobs in the military, and it just feels so dehumanizing. Like, hey, all you are is just a violent monster that doesn't belong in society. I'm like, I would be insulted by that. Like, are you kidding me? Like, that's all you think I am? You've boiled down my position in the military, whatever it is, to killing people and breaking things. Again, this is the person who runs the military telling me that I'm just a. A monster who kills.

[A]

Right?

[B]

And you're right, April. In a climate where political violence is on the rise, we're. We're. We're coming off the tail end of, like, what, 10 mass shootings in the past, like, week? And you're telling me or these people, all you do is kill and break things? Yikes. I'm not impressed yet.

[A]

It's dehumanizing.

[B]

Yeah, it's gross. It's gross. By the way, this is from a white evangelical. Pete Hegseth is a committed white evangelical Christian discipled by Doug Wilson. If you don't know who Doug Wilson is, you know, go look him up. But, like, this is not by. This is by a person who claims to follow the Christ, who said, love your enemies and those who live by the sword, die by the sword. And Pete's like, hell yeah, we do, brother. Hell, yeah, we do.

[A]

This is also especially terrifying in the climate where Trump is actively, you know, deploying military against American citizens, against American cities, 100%.

[B]

All right, that's one clip down. You all hanging in there? Y' all hanging in there? Here we go.

[F]

We are overhauling an inspector general process, the IG that has been weaponized putting complainers, ideologues, and poor performers in the driver's seat. We're doing the same with the equal opportunity and military equal opportunity policies, the EO and MEO at our department. No more frivolous complaints. No more anonymous complaints. No more repeat complainants. No more smearing reputations. No more endless waiting. No more legal limbo. No more sidetracking careers. No more walking on eggshells.

[B]

You know, this is all code for, we're reducing protections for victims of sexual assault, which is a major issue in the military. And, you know, coming from a guy who has his own accusations of sexual assault and abuse, can we say that we're surprised? Now, some of you might be thinking, I don't get it. Why would Pete be doing this? Because Pete doesn't believe that women should be in the military. Okay, let me just say it very plainly for all of you. If Pete had his way completely, he would get rid of every single female in the military. It would be a bunch of white men in the military, and that would, in his mind, solve the sexual assault problem when we know, by the way, statistically, men also get sexually assaulted. Okay, but it's, like, unbelievable to hear a man saying, we're going to reduce the amount of protections and, and policies we have for, for when, when harm is done in the military. You have no recourse for that because you're just a complainer and you're an ideologue. Talk about, about the pot calling the kettle black, by the way. It's like, it's just, it's like, what do you say to this? What do you say to someone who's on a stage saying this proudly, like, are you okay? Are you all right? You can't be serious.

[A]

No, it's not. It's not okay. He just gave clear reign for predators in the military to assault people.

[B]

I, I, someone tell Pete, like, you don't build a lethal armed force. You know, you don't build a lethal military when you have no accountability for People who are sexually assaulting people in the military. Like, like you can't have both things. I. I don't understand. I don't understand. And it'll forget.

[A]

Feels like a personal grudge to me.

[B]

Definitely personal, 100%. Oh, we got another super chat. Thank you so much, Becky.

[A]

We have a couple, I think.

[B]

Can you, can you see this one? Can you read it?

[A]

Yeah, I have to blow up my screen. The whole idea is to make sure veterans are able to come home and recover without being a danger to themselves or their families. Pete is so dumb. I agree, Becky.

[B]

And then this one from the Alden, Pete.

[A]

Patriotism, evangelicalism, trumpism, extremism talk, if you will. Pete with acronym. I see what you did. I like that.

[B]

So Alden makes all of our thumbnails and graphics. And you can tell why, because he never misses. And I want just one more. Came in. Kelly, forgot to say thank you for your work in my earlier super chat. What you do is so important. Thank you so much. All right, let's keep going.

[F]

We are preparing every day. We have to be prepared for war, not for defense. We're training warriors, not defenders. We fight wars to win, not to defend. Defense is something you do all the time. It's inherently reactionary and can lead to overuse or overreach and mission creep. War is something you do sparingly on our own terms and with clear aims. We fight to win. We unleash overwhelming and punishing violence on the enemy. We also don't fight with stupid rules of engagement. We untie the hands of our war fighters to intimidate, demoralize, hunt and kill the. The enemies of our country. No more politically correct and overbearing rules of engagement. Just common sense, maximum lethality and authority for war fighters. That's all I ever wanted as a platoon leader.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

I don't.

[B]

So the Geneva Convention, like, out the window.

[A]

You have rules so you don't commit war crimes, Right?

[B]

So you don't do what Israel is doing to the people in Gaza.

[A]

Pete.

[B]

Like, that's why we have rules. Because, you know, smarter people have thought through the ethics and the morality of war and how brutal it can be and how people who are not in the military can die in horrific and terrible ways because we're not agreeing on certain, like, non negotiables, like, no, we're not going to kill citizens or civilians or children. And Pete's like, yeah, to hell with those. That's politically correct. We're going to untie you from those things also.

[A]

Nobody wants war who wants. You have a military for defense. Okay, Yes, I do think Pete does want war. But generally speaking, people in polite society, you know, and countries with democracies, like, the point of the military is to stop wars. And you don't want to have wars. You want. You don't want violence. You have these rules. Because we want to live in, like, peace. You want peace. Peace is a good thing. You don't want to be at wars with all these people and countries.

[B]

So Pete Hegseth has literal Christian crusader tattoo, like, iconography tattooed on him. Okay. And you have to understand that in Pete's world, as a Christian nationalist, he believes that to bring the gospel to other places includes and necessitates violence. Like, we're not talking about your typical missionary knocking on someone's door or like, trying to do acts of charity in another country to get kids to pray a prayer. We're talking about a belief that says Christ told us to disciple the nations. And because we're a Christian country, and now I'm in charge of the military, which now makes it a Christian military, we should be using this as a way to spread the gospel through violent forms or through violent means. And I know that sounds wild to some people, but it's absolutely true. I mean, this is Doug Wilson, his whole Canon Press institution. This is what they believe. They have no problem with violence. They have no problem instituting violence. And also, the last thing I want to say is, again, just to show how delusional Pete is, He's in charge of the most lethal and powerful military in the entire world. We have bases all over the world. We've never lost a war, I think, ever. We have the most, like, we spend the most money per GDP on our military. It's wild. And he's like, we're. We're just too weak. We've been on defense. What does that even mean? Like, do you want to go start invading countries randomly, Pete? Like, I thought we're the nation of no wars, right? Is. Isn't that what. What. What Trump ran on, but now we have a department of war. And, And. And this dude is bragging about the need to be proactive and just into essentially start wars instead of playing defense because we're a bunch of wimps if we play defense. What? This is not Christian. This is not Christianity. This is not Jesus. This is. This is a beta male cosplaying as a GI Joe, and he doesn't know what to do with it. Right? He's been given this power. He's like, you know, I'm going to lean into all of my caricatures of what a true man is because we. We fight wars and, and we don't. We're not tied down by, you know, you know, the rules of engagement, because that's for wusses, because we're real men. It's like, Pete, you're. It's pathetic, dude. We. We, like, do you have. Maybe you have daddy issues? Like, maybe your dad didn't like you as a child and that's fair, but, like, don't take it out in the military, bro. That. I'm sorry. That's how it feels to me. It's insecure. It is. Has. It screams. Has not done the work. It screams I need attention. And it screams I don't know what to do with real power besides wield it and flaunt it and embarrass myself. That's. That's what it says to me.

[A]

He is an evangelical Christian who claims to be a Jesus follower, who calls himself Jesus, refers to himself as the Prince of Peace, and here he is bragging as the Secretary of War that those two things do not go together at all.

[B]

Of course not. Of course not. Next clip.

[A]

So annoying.

[F]

All right, it all starts with physical fitness and appearance. If the Secretary of War can do regular hard pt, so can every member of our Joint force. Frankly, it's tiring to look out at combat formations, or really any formation, and see fat troops. Likewise, it's completely unacceptable to see fat generals and admirals in the halls of the Pentagon and leading commands around the country and the world. It's a bad look. It is bad. And it's not who we are. So whether you're an Airborne Ranger or a Chairborne Ranger, a brand new private or a four star General, you need to meet the height and weight standards and pass your PT test. And as the Chairman said, yes, there is no PT test. But today, at my direction, every member of the. Of the Joint Force at every rank is required to take a PT test twice a year, as well as meet height and weight requirements twice a year. Every year of service. Also today, at my direction, every warrior across our Joint force is required to do PT every duty day. Should be common sense. I mean, most units do that already, but we're codifying it. And we're not talking like hot yoga and stretching real hard pt, either as a unit or as an individual. At every level, from the Joint Chiefs to everyone in this room, to the youngest private leaders, set the standard. And so many of you do this already active Guard and reserve.

[A]

Okay, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.

[B]

Go ahead.

[A]

Okay. I have a theory why he's going hard against, quote, unquote, fat troops. Like, whatever. I think Pete is an insecure little man who is intimidated by all the generals in that room who are far more accomplished than Pete is, despite Pete's fancy little title. But the one thing that Pete does have is he is relatively fit. He does do fitness, and I feel like he's honing in on the one thing that he's like, I could do fitness. I did fitness so good. Look at me do fitness. Me tough. Me have abs. And, like, that's the only thing that he could even say that would put him at any sort of equality, I guess, as them, because he doesn't have the experience of those generals. And also, did he say, I can't. I want to go back? Because I. Did he say height and weight?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Regulation. How. How can someone. Are they going to start padding their shoes?

[F]

Every warrior across our joint force is required to do pt. Every duty.

[B]

I'm just kind of guessing.

[F]

Most units do that already, but we're codifying it, and we're not talking like, hot yoga and stretching.

[B]

Really quick. Has he ever done hot yoga? Cuz I have.

[A]

Yoga's hard, yo.

[B]

That is. That is. That's. No. I would rather do my normal weightlifting and stair stepper routine than do hot yoga. I. That is. It's brutal. But okay, Pete. Okay, let's see.

[F]

Real hard pt. There's either as a unit or as an individual at every level, from the Joint Chiefs to every.

[B]

I'm trying to see where he said it. Where do you say it?

[F]

My direction. Every warrior across our joint force. So whether you're an airborne ranger or a.

[B]

All right, I'll try and find it later. But, yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I. I think he did say height for sure. Height and weight.

[A]

I just don't want to. I don't know if my brain. If. I just want to make sure I heard it right, because I'm like, you did. What does that even mean?

[B]

Maybe someone. Maybe someone in the chat will tell us because they can go back, but I'm pretty sure he said that, so. Okay, should we keep going? A couple more clips.

[A]

Yeah. Let's continue.

[F]

Move out and draw fire, because we are the war Department. Godspeed. Attention.

[B]

So for people on podcasts who can't see that, you can tell he's waiting for the applause. You can tell. Like, he's just waiting for the yeah, that's my guy. That's my, that's my, my person in charge. And that's not what happens. And he, he kind of like makes this weird face with his eyeballs. It's just hilarious, right? He has this like, again, rah, rah, rah moment. Like, we are the department of War. Godspeed, Cricket.

[A]

You can tell he was like, waiting. He's like, oh, yeah. Which I think, I do think in the military you are maybe don't applaud. Like, maybe that's a thing you don't do. I don't know. But regardless, he definitely thought that he would be applauded.

[D]

So.

[B]

Yes. Yeah. All right. So after Pete gave his riveting speech, another amazing person who I. Well, maybe I shouldn't say that. I. Listen, we don't body shame on the show. Okay? That's not what this is about. But when you talk about fitness requirements and then the commander in chief doesn't meet them, you just kind of wonder. You have to point it out. I'm just saying. You have to point it out. So then this guy came up.

[A]

Also, also, also, also, also, also, I, I want to point this out too. A second ago. Most gen generals typically, they don't see combat.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And honestly, in today's time, like, if you are in war, most of our wars are fought with drones and airstrikes and not hand to hand combat.

[B]

Right, right. And like cyber security, which by the way, is important. Anyway. All right, so I think Trump comes out next after this clip. Let's see.

[G]

Fantastic.

[B]

All right, here we go. Now this. Look, I, Pete Hegseth is out there. I, I think Trump is, is really losing it more than ever. I really do. I mean, I think that there's something, there's a cognitive decline that's really unfolding in front of us because some of his rants during this speech were just kind of like, whoa, they're out there. And again, you're in front of the top generals in the military. You brought them from overseas to this one room. And by the way, you televised it. You televised it. Talk about a bad call for our, like, for, like, security. If there were real enemies that we had and they knew about this, wouldn't you want to like, you know, attack while they're all in the same room? I'm just saying. So Trump brings them all in and then Trump says, here's a few clips that we pulled.

[G]

Yeah, I've never walked into a room so silent before. This is very. Don't laugh, don't laugh. You're not allowed to do that. You know what? Just have a good time. And if you want to applaud, you applaud. And if you want to do anything you want, you can do anything you want. And if you don't like what I'm saying, you can leave the room. Of course, there goes your rank. There goes your future.

[B]

I don't know why they're laughing nice and loose.

[G]

Okay? Because we're all on the same team. And I was told that, sir, you won't hear, you won't hear a murmur in the room. I said we had to loosen these guys up a little bit. So you just have a good time. But I want to thank priority. That's what.

[B]

Okay, that, that's the first little intro I thought was just kind of weird. Now he starts talking and getting into his speech and here's what he says.

[G]

Only in recent decades did politicians somehow come to believe that our job is to police the far reaches of Kenya and Somalia while America is under invasion from within. We're under invasion from within. No different than a foreign enemy, but more difficult in many ways because they don't wear uniforms. At least when they're wearing a uniform you can take them out. These people don't have uniforms. But we are under invasion from within. We're stopping it very quickly.

[B]

We got to talk about this.

[A]

That's terrible. Is he talking about immigrants or is he talking about leftists?

[B]

Well, look, these folks are notoriously ambiguous. That way they can have plausible deniability. But obviously, given his rhetoric, he's talking about leftists. I mean, they designated ANTIFA as a terrorist organization. ANTIFA isn't even an organization. Like there, there, there. There is no headquarters of antifa. You can go to there. There is no America fest equival of an Antifa rally. Like it's a very decentralized splinter cell kind of movement. I think he's talking about leftists. I mean, he's sending troops into Chicago and Portland, I think it's clear. Which by the way, think about again. Okay, April, let me ask you a question. Do you remember when President Biden made a speech and he made a line that said something to the effect of like ultra white nationalists are a threat to America. And, and he had the red lights behind him and right wing media picked this up and was like, this is the most divisive president we've ever had in our lifetime. He just called half the country terrorists and supremacists. They went crazy over that three sentence limerick that Biden said. Trump is bragging about how we're under threat from within. He's talking about other American citizens, right? And the right is like, hell, yeah, we are. And why is that? Because, like you and I have been saying for a long time, Christian nationalists are not here to participate in democracy. They are here to erode democratic norms, to take over. To take power and to rule over their neighbors because they see especially their Democrat neighbors and leftist neighbors as demonically influenced, as enemies who must be destroyed. This is. This is common language. If you grew up evangelical, you're taught this all the time.

[A]

The double standard is infuriating. Do you remember, too, I think it was Joe Biden that either referred to Trump or Trump supporters as trash. And then it was, like, right before the election, and then for Halloween, they were all dressing up as trash bags, and they all lost their minds. Like, how dare you call us something as awful as trash as. And, like, we even condemn it. We're like, yeah, we shouldn't call people trash. That's a little dehumanizing. But this man literally calls anyone who is not his loyal supporter an enemy that he is now actively sending the military against. And he's talked about imprisoning enemies. He's talked about taking rights away, taking freedom of speech away from people that don't say. I mean, just look at what happened. What. What his FCC director tried to do with Jimmy Kimmel. Like, the. The double standard. It's so lopsided that it's. That it's. It's so obvious if you're not maga, but when you're maga, it's like they have blinders on. They just. They either can't see it or they intentionally are just being hypocritical, which I. I think some is the latter, 100%.

[B]

By the way, someone in the chat said that they're hearing a clicking sound startup, which is not a good sign. We've been having an issue for the past, like, couple lives. But. But it could. There is. In these clips, there is a buzzing sound. There is like a static buzzing sound that is native to these clips that you're hearing.

[A]

We also. I was gonna say we also have a bunch of super chats that have come in, and it's also 115 already.

[B]

Oh, my God, we gotta go. Okay. All right. We. We. Yeah, time really applies. Okay, let's read the super chats first, I guess.

[A]

And I think we might have missed a couple from earlier, too.

[B]

Did we? Oh, my gosh.

[A]

I think so.

[B]

We gotta change. We're gonna. Just reading super chats all day. Well, we'll do the ones that I can see. So we have one from Kelly Ray said, thank you for the work, which we appreciate. And then Dawson, he basically gave a TED to the military. A TED Talk to the military. Yep, it feels that way. Only worse in my opinion. Joseph Compton says, in essence, Pete's trying to change the military into a white man's playground. There will be zero accountability for their criminal acts. Absolutely. Namaste. Says, does this include the Commander in Chief? I think, referring to the PT standards. And then Shara Sexy says, McCarthyism is scary. Absolutely.

[A]

And I think we had a couple from earlier that we didn't get to. One from Stevie Clown 2000 that said, yeah, the Department of War is so much, A lot is so much a left behind Tim LaHaye creation. And we had one from 8bit Cutman that says, showing my love for you guys. I've been having a hard time engaging with any of this news. It's depressing seeing how my former faith community reacted. And your voice is so important in this space.

[B]

Awesome. Thank you so much.

[A]

Thank you so much. If we missed it, we. If we missed yours, we apologize.

[B]

Yeah. All right, let's do one or two more of these clips, then we'll get to our weird Christian beep and then we'll wrap up because it's been over an hour. Thank you again, friends, for being here. It truly means the world. Make sure to give this video a like and subscribe to the YouTube channel if you're watching there. If you're watching on Lincoln Square Media. Honestly, this is only our sec, our second show with you guys, so we would love any feedback you might have. You can leave it in the chat. We read all the comments. We're trying to make this show as accessible as possible and helping people who maybe did not grow up. Like how April and I did understand why we are so concerned about Christian nationalism, what it is and how it manifests in our government. So thanks for being here. All right, let's. Let's finish this up and then we'll.

[G]

Go from there in our inner cities, which we're going to be talking about, because it's. It's a big part of war now. It's a big part of war. But the firemen go up on ladders and you have people shooting at them while they're up in ladders. I don't even know if anybody heard that, but. And I said don't talk about it much, but I think you have to. Our firemen are Incredible. They're up in one of these ladders that goes way up to the sky rescuing people. And you have animals shooting at them, shooting bullets at firemen that are way up in, in death territory. You fall off. That letter is over.

[B]

Okay, we already covered this. I just think it's worth playing this final clip of this person talking to Mike Johnson about this whole thing, saying the obvious part, that Trump is like, unhinged. Unless you want to give commentary on Trump's clip that you know about going into cities.

[A]

I mean, there's so many things fascism is here. It's racist. It's so many.

[B]

It's racist, it's authoritarian, it's tyrannical. What happened to states rights? All of a sudden? States rights don't matter now we're just gonna start invading cities that we don't like because we have a chip on our shoulder. It's Christian fascism. One on one. This is what's happening.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And here's Mike Johnson, the little pupper puppet of the House. And who's the, who's the woman talking to him? She's. I know. She's a Democrat.

[B]

Yeah. I don't know who she is, but this clip is so telling. It's so telling.

[A]

Hold on. You play it and I'll, I'll figure out who she is, because I, I, I have it somewhere. The president is unhinged. He is unwell.

[B]

What are you doing? Your side are, too. I don't control.

[A]

Oh, my God, please.

[E]

That performance in front of the generals.

[A]

That I didn't see is so dangerous.

[E]

You know, I serve on foreign affairs and appropriations.

[A]

It's the collision of those two things. Our allies are looking elsewhere. Our enemies are laughing.

[B]

I just left.

[A]

You have a president who, you have a president who is unwell. I mean, that is Madeline Dean. She is a Democrat Congress representative from Pennsylvania.

[B]

She's calling it out. She calling it out. I mean, he's on. And Mike is like, well, you people on your side who are. Well, it's like, are you kidding me, Mike? Are you kidding me? Like, are who? Who?

[A]

Notice. Notice. He didn't deny it, though.

[B]

He did not.

[A]

He didn't deny he was unhinged. He just said, well, you have unhinged people, too.

[B]

It's, it's wild.

[A]

I know you are, but what am. I was basically his.

[B]

No, exact. Exactly. It's wild.

[A]

There's an image of. From the generals, like an audience shot.

[B]

Oh, yeah, sure.

[A]

That was going around. And you can just look on their faces where. Like this, this one's going around because it's viral, because there's clearly a general audience with his hand, like, over his, like, face, palming his. His. And you could see a couple with spurs. Like, you can tell if I were one of these generals, I would have been pissed if I got summoned and I had to fly across giant oceans to come back to sit in this meeting and get lectured by an alcoholic Fox News host and a president who thinks he's God's gift to literally everything. I mean, how many times have you heard Trump say, like, there's nobody that does this better than me. There's nobody that knows more about windmills. Like, it's always the most random crap.

[B]

So delusional. And he's obviously delusional. And white Christians are just bowing like they love this guy. It's so telling.

[A]

Yeah, we were going to play a clip of Amy McGrath responding to Pete Hegseth, but I think for time, we just have to.

[B]

Yeah, people can find it. I mean, Amy McGrath. Yeah. You want to explain? Go ahead.

[A]

Yeah. Amy McGrath was a former pilot. She's highly decorated.

[B]

Badass. Badass.

[A]

Yeah, she's been on our show before, actually. Um, but she. She did a scathing rebuke of what Pete Hegseth talked, especially when he was talking about a male. What did he say? The male standard. Yeah, he literally called it a male standard. But there are plenty of veterans and military people that have spoke out against this and much poignant ways you should. You should just look it up. But it is late because. Of course it is, because there's too many things going on in the news. Like, we didn't even talk about the government shutdown. That is, there's just too many things. But we don't want to. We want to make sure we have time for some fun shy of the segment. Yeah. It is Christian.

[B]

Classic. Classic.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Let's have some fun. We need to laugh. Okay. Part of resistance to fascism is finding joy and finding ways to laugh. We're going to laugh. I insist.

[A]

Yes. So I promise you, we don't always play videos about the Rapture. We just happen to be doing this two weeks in a row. Because in case you missed it, there was a rapture prediction for September 23rd and 24th that obviously came and went. But the man who. His name is Brother Joshua. He's a South African prophet, obviously, people are like, whoa, dude, you care to explain yourself? Because we're all still here.

[B]

Right?

[A]

And so he went online and said, you know what? I wasn't wrong. I wasn't wrong. The Rapture is still happening. I just had the wrong calendar. And I wish I was joking, but I am not. So we're gonna play. Is this have both clips too?

[B]

Yeah, but I can stop it in between.

[A]

Okay. All right, so first we're gonna. This is a twofer. Okay. First we're gonna play brother Joshua explaining why the Rapture didn't happen on September 23rd and 24th.

[B]

I'm a billion percent sure that the Rapture is going to happen on the.

[F]

23Rd and 24th September, 2025. But when you cross over straight from this Feast of Trumpets to our Gregorian calendar, it will put you on the.

[B]

17Th of eight, October.

[A]

So basically what he's saying is that when Jesus was alive, he went by the Julian calendar, Everyone went by the Julian calendar, and at the time of when Jesus walked the Earth. And we now use the Gregorian calendar, which is on a 13 day delay. And so obviously he should have known that Jesus meant September 23rd, 24th, based on the Julian calendar.

[B]

Just like how this live stream's on a delay, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. So is the Rapture. Same idea.

[A]

And I'm sure a lot of you are like, well, surely no one's following for this again, right? You would be wrong. You would be wrong indeed. So here is a. A woman who is also fully on board, and there's a bunch of them. It's not just her. So E2, the calendar was changed from Julian to Gregorian. The Julian calendar is 13 days behind our calendar. This would explain, right, why Jesus didn't come on September 23rd or 24th. It's because he, when he was on the Earth, the Julian calendar was. Was the calendar they followed.

[B]

There you go. It's just that simple.

[A]

Because obviously Jesus wouldn't be talking about the calendar that we all use today.

[B]

No, of course not. Of course not.

[A]

Of course not.

[B]

No, no. That makes. Look, the math. It maths, April, it's quite simple. Yeah. I mean, how dare you not, like, believe it hook, line and sinker. Did you see the video of the lady crying that she sold everything and left her job and was ready to be raptured and then doesn't know what to do? Because, like, I do think we should mention that there are people who get really hurt by this stuff, right? Like, obviously we laugh about it because it is ridiculous, but there are people who are really deceived by this and they do really wild things like selling their houses in some cases, or leaving their jobs or whatever it might be. Cashing out their 401k, like, for real. And then they don't know what to do because it turns out that they were totally duped by someone on the Internet or someone that they believe is a, you know, a prophet of God. But I gotta say, like, you know this. You and I have. You and I have survived many raptures. I'll just put it that way. We survived a lot of them so far.

[A]

Yeah, well, and we fully used to believe it, too. I mean, I was 100% the rapture was going to happen. Thought I was living in the end times. I literally, when I was a kid, would look out my window and count down from 10, thinking, oh, when I hit zero, Jesus is going to come back. And I would do it over and over and over and over and over again.

[B]

I thought it was just me.

[A]

Oh, my gosh, no. Twin Jesus.

[B]

You have, like, you know, it was like an intuition, right? Like, okay, it's gonna happen now. It's gonna happen now. Yeah, totally.

[A]

Yeah. And so I. It's. It's. I mean, it sounds so ridiculous being on this side of it that I literally believed at any moment I would just float up to the sky naked, because that's what the left behind taught me. We couldn't take any earthly belongings to heaven with us, just our bodies. So no.

[B]

Clothes, clothes.

[A]

There go the clothes. But, yeah, it is really sad, though, because it. It not only does it harm people that literally think, okay, by this date this is going to happen and so I can sell all my possessions because who cares? But also it keeps so many Christians that keep thinking, oh, we're in the end times, God's going to come back, destroy the current earth, and then build a new Earth. So that's why you see so many people that fight against, you know, climate protections and trying to stop climate change because they don't see a point in it. And it's why you see so many people that don't feel like there's a need to stop the genocide in Gaza or to stop a lot of everyday problems, because it doesn't matter, because Jesus is coming back.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And a lot of these bad things that are happening are signs of Jesus coming back. So you don't want to stop it. You want it to happen because it just proves that Jesus is coming back. It's such a twisted, harmful ideology that is not talked about nearly enough.

[B]

That's why we've covered it on our show. If you go to our podcast or YouTube, we did entire episodes unpacking the Rapture, how it works, how we grew up believing it, all that stuff, because it's a major thing and it has a major impact on, on how America handles foreign policy. Because people who believe in the rapture and believe in that kind of. It's called eschatology. That's the fancy word, right? How, how things will end, they believe this stuff and they believe that Israel plays a major role in it. So we can't betray, quote, unquote, Israel, which is why we fund the ongoing genocide of the Palestinians. Like, like Christian. I don't want to exaggerate, but I believe I'm being factual here. In particular, white evangelicalism and its whole infrastructure, its multi billion dollar infrastructure is responsible for so much of the bad stuff that's happening in this country on a. On a policy level. Like, I don't know how else to say that it is. Statistically, it is white evangelicals who, who voted for the big beautiful bill. And it's white evangelicals who were behind Trump in 2016 and 2020 and 2024. It's white evangelicals who were the group who mostly believed that the election was stolen. In 2020. It was white evangelicals that stormed the Capitol. It's white evangelicals that believe if we betray Israel, AKA not funding their genocide, God's gonna punish us. Like, it's just. It's so many things that come out of this world. And that's why we're so passionate about it. Because as Christians, we believe that this is an antichrist way of living. Right? Christ calls us to liberate the oppressed. He preached good news to the poor. He told us to clothe the naked, to feed the hungry, to heal the sick, to welcome the stranger. And the expression that we see right now of a white American, Christianity is doing the complete opposite. And Christians need to step up and say some stuff. That's all I can say about it.

[A]

Yep, absolutely. Well, everyone, thank you so much for joining us today. We went a little long again. Maybe this is just our new normal. Maybe we're not really going long. Maybe this is just regular. But if you haven't yet, please subscribe to our YouTube channel. We are super, super close to hitting 10k, which is exciting, super exciting. And leave a review on our, you know, wherever you listen to podcasts, whether it's Spotify or Apple or wherever. And I want to say, too, hopefully for next week, we'll have the sound of Donald Trump saying, nothing bad can happen. It can only good happen. Because I really just want to have that where you'd be like, come on, come leave us a review and then play that nothing bad can happen. It can only good happen. That's what I want to do. That's going to be something I quote all the time now.

[B]

If you are watching on Lincoln Square, please give them a dm. Let them know what you think about the show. It really helps with feedback. We want to hear from all of you. You're a whole new audience for us and we want to make sure that we're giving you content that hopefully is helpful and understandable. If you're looking for a better path forward in your faith, please consider joining the new Evangelicals community group. It's totally free. It's thenewevangelicals.com connect. We do Theology 101. We bring scholars to you. We have our own spaces, our own social media feed away from the meta algorithm. It's totally free. And we're here to help you find a better path forward in your faith. So. All right, friends. Well, that's it for today. I'm Tim Whitaker.

[A]

I'm April Ajoy.

[B]

See ya.

[A]

Bye.