53. ICE Raids, a Government Shutdown, and Christian Nationalist Mayhem

Summary

The Tim & April Show – Episode 53 Summary

Podcast: The Tim & April Show
Network: The New Evangelicals
Episode: #53 – ICE Raids, a Government Shutdown, and Christian Nationalist Mayhem
Date: October 10, 2025
Summary By: [Your Name]

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Tim Whitaker and April Ajoy unpack recent headlines at the intersection of faith, politics, and culture through a Christian lens that centers justice, inclusion, and honesty. Major topics include:

• The humanitarian cost and political implications of recent ICE raids
• The ongoing government shutdown and its roots in debates over healthcare
• The boogeyman of “Antifa” and right-wing Christian nationalism
• Noteworthy reactions from faith leaders, local communities, and public officials responding to these crises
• The hypocrisy and inconsistencies rampant in both politics and segments of the American church

Throughout, Tim and April balance impassioned critique, moments of laughter, and calls to moral clarity anchored in the teachings of Jesus.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Rapture Predictions & Evangelical Trauma ([01:59]–[04:12])

• Discussion opens with humor about a recent failed rapture prediction, exposing the cycle of unfulfilled prophecies in evangelical spaces.
• Quote ([03:34], April): “You’re allowed to predict the rapture one time, and if you get it wrong, you just gotta be done.”
• April reflects on the real trauma these beliefs caused, using laughter as healing.

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2. Israel/Gaza Ceasefire: Justice, Context, & Complicity ([04:12]–[10:08])

• News of a (tentative) ceasefire is met with cautious relief, alongside a sobering list of statistics:
  • 92% of homes in Gaza destroyed, 1.9 million displaced, 67,000+ deaths, 99% food insecurity, and more.
• Tim and April stress that the conflict didn’t begin on Oct 7, 2023—context matters.
• U.S. bipartisan complicity is condemned: “As Christians, we don’t care what your affiliation is. If you’re supporting or using our tax dollars to fund the bombing of children, it’s a major problem.” ([07:57], Tim)
• They clarify their stance as anti-war and anti-violence—rooted in justice, not antisemitism.
• Memorable Moment: “It’s not too much to ask for any nation, especially one that we are funding, to stop bombing kids… This is a very appropriate thing to ask for.” ([09:05], Tim)

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3. Antifa as Right-Wing Boogeyman & Moral Panic ([11:00]–[24:35])

• The Trump administration’s executive order labeling “Antifa” a terrorist organization is dissected, including the “Antifa Roundtable” spectacle.
• April exposes the myth of an organized Antifa with leaders—“they literally just make stuff up according to everyone.”
• Tim explains the rhetorical power of vaguely defined boogeymen: “Fascism relies on terms that are vaguely defined…truth is always subservient to power and propaganda.” ([18:30], Tim)
• Clips: Kristi Noem’s bizarre claim about arresting the “girlfriend of one of the founders of Antifa”—April points out the founder’s age would be ~120 (19:44–20:02).
• Both hosts emphasize how these narratives distract from real right-wing violence and serve as cover for state action against dissent.

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4. ICE Raids, State Violence & Christian Response ([24:35]–[59:54])

A. Reality of the Raids ([31:58])

• Recent ICE raids in Chicago and Portland involved military-style tactics: “They rappelled out of helicopters…zip tied children who…were naked, pulled them out of their beds for no reason.” ([31:58], April)
• The regime frames any protest as “Antifa terrorism” while wielding actual state violence.

B. Clergy Targeted, Hypocrisy Exposed

• Video discussed: Presbyterian Rev. David Black, arms outstretched, offering repentance and chanting “Love your neighbor,” is shot in the head with a pepper ball by ICE ([34:29]–[36:35]).
• Quote ([36:35], Tim, emotional): “He was standing up for his marginalized neighbor, protesting an ICE agency, doing what Christ would be doing. And he was shot by the government for doing that… That would be Christian persecution, in my opinion.”
• No condemnation from “Christian persecution”-obsessed right-wing evangelicals.
• April: “I don’t know what it’s going to take for them to choose the red letters over their stupid red hats.” ([41:51])

C. Ordinary Resistance & Community Solidarity

• Clips: Protesters in Chicago form lines pushing back ICE, others follow and warn neighborhoods via car and loudspeaker ([51:20]–[53:23]).
• Police and local officials in Chicago side with citizens against ICE, a rare moment of community across typical lines.

D. Chicago’s Response

• Mayor signs executive order creating “ICE-free zones” blocking federal agents from city property and encouraging private businesses to do the same ([54:23]–[55:59]).
  • Quote ([55:59], Mayor): “Our school parking lots are not for ICE to load their weapons…Our parks are not for ICE to set up checkpoints…[We’re] building a broad civic shield that limits the reach of harmful enforcement practices.”
• Tim: “That’s how you do it. Oh, my God.” ([56:01])

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5. Government Shutdown & Healthcare Hypocrisy ([65:08]–[75:03])

• The shutdown is rooted in Republican attempts to cut ACA (Obamacare) subsidies.
  • Millions may lose or be unable to afford coverage if subsidies expire.
• Tim points out U.S. priorities: endless funds for war, ICE, and military; endless qualms over providing even flawed, basic healthcare.
• Mike Johnson’s rhetoric: “Let me look right into the camera and tell you very clearly, Republicans are the ones concerned about health care…” ([69:07])
  • Tim’s retort: “Does anyone know what the Republican plan is to fix health care?”
• Notably, Marjorie Taylor Greene sides with Democrats in supporting the subsidies, detailed in a rare moment of bipartisan clarity ([72:07]–[74:48]).
  • Quote ([73:39], MTG): “If you double their health insurance or even triple it, these people are going to…be choosing between doing rent and their health insurance.”

Memorable Caller ([75:18]–[78:33])

• A military wife with medically fragile children pleads with Johnson about the shutdown’s impact: “My kids could die. We don’t have the credit because of the medical bills that I have to pay regularly…”
• Johnson blames Democrats, despite Republicans holding power: “My heart goes out to you.” (deflection)
• April notes the shifting attitudes: “I have seen more…leaving MAGA because of how terrible this Trump administration is.”

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6. Evangelical Abuse & Hypocrisy: Robert Morris ([80:51]–[84:40])

• Coverage of Robert Morris, former Trump spiritual advisor and founder of Gateway Church, pleading guilty to child sexual abuse.
  • Despite a 10-year sentence, he receives only six months jail time and a nominal fine.
• April and Tim highlight the contrast between right-wing fearmongering about leftist violence and their tolerance for abuse in their own ranks.
• Tim: “It’s right in front of you. We agree on Robert Morris, but we can’t agree on a man who was found liable for sexually assaulting a woman.”
• April names the core problem: “Trump has become their idol. The MAGA movement is a golden calf.”

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7. Weird Christian Moment: Pharmakia as Witchcraft ([87:16]–[92:53])

• They play a clip of a preacher ranting that using marijuana, even Band-Aids or medicine, constitutes “sorcery” (pharmakia from Galatians 5:20).
  • April: “If you get like a cut and you’re bleeding, you’re just supposed to bleed out because otherwise it’s sorcery?” ([92:14])
• Tim: “Could you imagine if you’re that guy’s kid and that happens to you and he really believes that? It’s dangerous.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “There’s always some boogeyman out there and they’re kind of on rotation.” ([13:42], Tim)
• “Fascism relies on terms that are vaguely defined…Truth is always subservient to power and propaganda.” ([18:30], Tim)
• “Every accusation is a confession.” ([31:48], April)
• “Christian nationalists actually don’t give a shit about Christians. They care mostly about white conservative Christianity.” ([38:58], Tim)
• “They are sons of hell. I’m sorry, they are whitewashed tombs... I have no more patience for people who...want to see my immigrant neighbor thrown into a concentration camp...” ([42:04–43:08], Tim)
• “I have no clue how they’re gonna edit it. We’ll see.” (Tease for Tim’s Jubilee appearance [64:49])
• “If you think that’s where your outrage should be as a Christian, we worship different gods, we follow different Christs. And guess what? I could defend the one I follow with the red letters. You cannot.” ([43:09], Tim)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

| Segment | Timestamps | |-----------------------------------------------|--------------------| | Rapture theory & trauma | 01:59–04:12 | | Israel/Gaza ceasefire & context | 04:12–10:08 | | Antifa as right-wing boogeyman | 11:00–24:35 | | ICE raids/Christian clergy targeted | 24:35–59:54 | | Chicago’s community resistance | 51:20–56:05 | | Government shutdown/Healthcare debate | 65:08–75:03 | | Marjorie Taylor Greene supports subsidies | 72:07–74:48 | | Caller: shutdown’s impact on families | 75:18–78:33 | | Evangelical abuse: Robert Morris | 80:51–84:40 | | Weird Christian Moment (pharmakia clip) | 87:16–92:53 |

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Tone & Takeaways

Tim and April deliver an episode that is urgent, honest, and often darkly humorous—rooted in the Christian ethic of justice and neighbor-love. They dissect misinformation, lament the violence carried out in God’s name, and celebrate moments of resistance and solidarity, while calling listeners to moral clarity and action.

If you’re longing for a Christianity that stands firmly against oppression and for the vulnerable, this episode delivers challenging insights and inspiration.

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Recommended action:

• Support local efforts resisting injustice.
• Stay informed and get involved with equitable faith-based organizations.
• Join the ongoing conversation at The New Evangelicals and related platforms.

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End of summary.

Transcript

[A]

You're listening to a new evangelicals production, the Tim and April show where we unravel faith, politics and culture.

[B]

What's up friends? Welcome to the Tim and April Show. I am Tim Whitaker.

[A]

I'm April A joy.

[B]

So good to be with you. And a special hello to our Lincoln Square media audience. Welcome in. This is our third time going live on their substack. They've been such an amazing partner to work with as we are now streaming our show on YouTube on the Tim and April show. Oh no, no. Tim and April. I'm sorry, got on the wrong pipe. We're live. I can't edit this. Yeah, we're live on the Tim and April show on our YouTube channel and. And now we're live on substack in partnership with Lincoln Square. I'm Tim Whitaker, the founder of the New Evangelicals. That's the organization that produces this show. And April, my amazing co host is the author of an amazing book called Star Spangled Jesus which is out now in hardcover. And is it called soft cover Paperback? Paperback.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

You got it.

[B]

Yeah, There we go. There we go. That doesn't sound right for some reason. So we'll, we'll just let that slide.

[A]

Yeah, like a stress reliever.

[B]

Friends, if you're watching on YouTube, please do us a favor and give this stream a like it helps get it into the YouTube algorithm. We read all the comments. I can see comments on both sub sacs. So hello to all the sub stack audience. And I can see comments on YouTube. I have three screens up. I am producing the show. I'm making scenes happen while talking with April. So there's a lot going on but it's great to be here. April, how are you doing? You hanging in? I mean look, another day and no rapture. Wasn't there a rapture prediction recently?

[A]

There was. It was supposed to be the sixth, seventh or eighth and today's the ninth and no rapture.

[B]

We did it.

[A]

I did go and peek on a few of the people that were determined that if you missed our last talk about was initially the September 23rd, 24th and then the guy who made the initial prophecy because he said Jesus appeared to him was like whoa. Actually Jesus went by the Julian calendar which is on a 1314 day delay. So really we're looking at October 7th or 8th. Some people said October 6th and 7th. I literally saw a video and this guy was being for real. That was as another evidence that it was going to be October 6 and 7. He was like 6, 7.

[B]

Look to our substack audience I don't know how many of you grew up like April and I as conservative evangelicals, but we were taught that at any moment we could be sucked up into the sky naked. Of course our clothes would be left behind. It is. Look, it's not. It's not like an elitist thing where we think that we're so smart and other people are so dumb. It's just such an absurd belief when you examine it, that we have to laugh at people who are adults, like they are older than us, who are really preaching these narratives that they have predicted when Christ will return. And so far, they are o for about 4,000 or more predictions. Yeah, probably. Maybe we'll say 10,000. Like they are. Their batting average is a big fat zero. So, yeah, absolutely zero.

[A]

I saw a video that was like, you know what? I think you're allowed to predict the rapture one time, and if you get it wrong, you just gotta be done. Like, you can't just predict it again. You've lost all credibility. I'll say, too. I also laugh at it as someone who has actual trauma from believing in the rapture. Like, I think laughter is a form of medicine, and so it just makes the healing a little better, too. You can laugh at it.

[B]

Like, it really. I mean, when you really examine the claim, it's pretty freaking absurd, you know, like this idea that, hey, at any moment, God is gonna come back. So, anyway, yeah, it's. It's a thing.

[A]

It is definitely a thing. So a couple things we wanted to mention before we get into our main stories, which are the ICE raids, the government shutdown, and we have a doozy of a weird Christian beep. First of all, we'll read all super chats live as you send them in. And we wanted to talk about. There is a ceasefire that has been agreed on in Israel and Gaza today that's supposed to start going into effect Friday. So tomorrow, which, if this holds, is really good news. But it's also. It's hard to. To celebrate a ceasefire that should have happened. You know, it's been going on for almost two years now. October 7th was when the first initial terrible attack happened on Israel, and then the overwhelming response, genocide that's happened there in the meantime. But, yeah, that's possibly good news.

[B]

Yeah, definitely. Look, a couple quick things. We have been talking about this on the New Evangelicals podcast, so just so the audience knows, we have three different shows that we do. We have Advocacy Hour, which is hosted by the New Evangelicals executive director and board president. And they Interview people who are helping you find a better path forward and getting active in culture and thinking about just how to love your neighbor better. And then we have the Tim and April Show. Then we, I host another podcast called the New Evangelicals Podcast and that's more of like the deep dives of scholars, et cetera. And we did a four part series on Israel, Palestine, when everything first happened. And look, I was someone who was also learning and still am learning. But to be clear, we, April and I both know that this did not start on October 7th. It wasn't, it didn't happen in a vacuum. But the most recent atrocities have taken place since October 7th. Now CNN is reporting this as like what seems to be a pretty mutually happy thing so far, which is good. But I will say Cassidy, who's our producer behind the scenes, she kind of manages comments and helps pull things when needed in the moment. She made a good point before we started going live and she said it's kind of weird calling it a ceasefire when like one side's been doing all of the firing and the other side's just kind of been sitting there. And I do think, look, I do want to join you, April, and celebrate a ceasefire. I mean, we've been, we've been demanding it from our politicians for a long time and better late than never. But I do think it is worth highlighting just the, the cataclysmic cost that this has taken on people. And so this is a really good series from zateo.com so just a couple pieces of information so people know where we stand on the eve or on the heels of the ceasefire. 92% of homes have been destroyed in Gaza. And to give people context, Gaza is about the size of Philadelphia, my, my closest city. And so I imagine hearing that 92% of the homes in Philly have been destroyed. We have 55 million metric tons of rubble, $40 billion of US arms sales to Israel since October 7th. That includes the Biden administration, by the way. We were very outspoken against this. I mean, huge problem for me. Huge. 1.9 million displaced Palestinians, 518 schools damaged or destroyed. Seven US vetoes of UN ceasefire resolutions, including many under the Biden administration. I want to be clear, this is not a MAGA exclusive here, okay? The Democratic Party has been complicit in this. And as Christians, we don't care what your affiliation is. If you're supporting or using our tax dollars to fund the bombing of children, it's a major problem. And then 99% of households are few are food insecure? 270 journalists have been killed. That is a wild stat. In the past two years, 790 attacks on doctors and health care facilities. 67,000 confirmed deaths. In two years, 186,000 estimated number of deaths that are direct and indirect. Meaning if you're bombing healthcare infrastructure and people can't, can't get access to medical care and they die from that, that's an indirect death.

[A]

And also probably starvation too.

[B]

And starvation, absolutely. And then we're kind of back to the carousel here, back to the top.

[D]

So.

[B]

Which I wanna be truly clear about that I am happy, I am thrilled that we have a ceasefire, hopefully in place for real. But my gosh, I mean, it has come at an immense cost. And look, Israel has not been known to hold and to agree to actual ceasefires. And again, that's not, it's not about the Jews, it's about the nation state of Israel. And I, I have to say that because, April, you and I know that in this climate there's a right wing push to really kind of insert themselves into this situation. But they're a lot of them, like your Candace Owens types, are an incredibly anti Semitic period. And this is not about that. We are not people who, who advocate for the conspiracy that the Jews control the media or the banks. That's not what we're doing here. At the same time, we're going to call out injustice forever. We see it. So I just want to be really emphatically clear, especially for our new audience, of what they're walking into. Right. We are Christians, we follow the way of Jesus and it's not too much to ask for any nation, especially one that we are funding to stop bombing kids and to stop, you know, tearing off their limbs and to stop bombing healthcare infrastructure and libraries and churches and killing journalists. This is a very appropriate thing to ask for. Also, you're muted, April. I'm not sure what happened here, but you are muted.

[A]

Yeah, it's because I accidentally muted myself. That's what happened here. Yeah, I was just agreeing.

[B]

I was like, wow, you're real quiet.

[A]

Yeah, I took the words right out of my mouth. So, yeah, well, hopefully the ceasefire sticks. So we will keep tracking that. You know, certain people, Israel doesn't have the best track record of keeping ceasefire. So we'll see. Okay, our main, our first main story.

[B]

Wait, Robert Morris, we have to mention that?

[A]

No, I was thinking we could. Okay, yeah, we'll just mention that too.

[B]

We could do it later. Wanna do it later.

[A]

Well, you brought it up now. So I might as well just do it.

[B]

Another quick thing. Now we're teasing the audience.

[A]

That's true. Well, I thought. Because we're gonna bring up Epstein later, and that's a good tie in.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I literally thought about it as you were saying it. I was like, oh, that's better.

[B]

We'll get to that later on.

[A]

Let's roll this live.

[B]

Yeah, live with coffee in our hands.

[A]

Actually, I have a sparkling water today. Oh, yeah.

[B]

So eclectic of you.

[A]

Ice. Speaking of iced coffee. That's terrible. We weren't talking about that. Okay. If you've seen, Ice is in all the news right now because they are just terrorizing American citizens.

[B]

It's unreal.

[A]

In Chicago and in Portland, especially right now.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

But before we get to that, Donald Trump. The Trump administration recently put out an executive order where they declared Antifa a terrorist organization. And then this week, they held at what they called an Antifa roundtable. They did a whole, like, press conference called the Antifa Roundtable. It's funny because there's like.

[B]

I'm sorry, if I don't laugh, I'll cry.

[A]

No, I know, because there's really no Antifa. Like, Antifa, to be clear, stands for anti fascist. There was an organization and movements called Antifa that started in the 1920s and 30s in Europe. They were fighting fascism in Europe. There's been variations, like small pockets of people that have identified as Antifa. Like, there was a group in the 80s. There was a smaller. What were they called? I had it pulled up, but I lost it. Of course I lost it. Oh, no. There was a group called Rose City Antifa that was formed in 2007 in Portland, but they were a small group, and they literally just fought neo Nazi. Like, they didn't even fight.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

They went and protested neo Nazi rallies.

[B]

They sound real radical. They sound. They sound like terrorists.

[A]

They were full of women and queer people. And from what I can for my brief reading up of them, I don't. I don't. They weren't violent. They were just. They protested neo Nazis. Okay. Because that's what anti antifa just means. Anti fascist. Okay. And it is. It is a little interesting that a government that is very commonly accused of being fascist because they do fascist things are now demonizing people who call themselves antifascist.

[B]

See, it's almost like they have a real incentive to label people who oppose them as the exact thing that they are to immigrants and other citizens in America who they don't like.

[A]

Yeah. They've kind of made Antifa just This big boogeyman in the GOP that doesn't actually exist, but it's just an easy scapegoat. They just can classify anyone they don't like as antifa.

[B]

We do have to give credit where credit is due. The, the MAGA right wing media world is really good at creating boogeyman. I mean, they're really effective at it. But remember a few years ago everyone was freaking out about CRT critical race theory that's going to make your kids become racist and teach the white kids that they're always the oppressor. Like just the most wildest, craziest claims you ever did here. And then from there that went away. And then it was DEI and then it was, you know, trans women in sports. There's always some thing or someone to be afraid of. There's always some boogeyman out there and they're kind of on rotation. Like it's only a matter of time before something that is. Is dog. A dog whistle for racism comes back in. It's some new term that we'll be talking about in a few months, but right now it's Antifa. Then they'll cycle out, then they'll come back in. So yeah, I mean this is.

[A]

Do you remember in January6 when the insurrection like first, first started happening, I saw so many MAGA people that said it was Antifa that was pretending to be maga, of course, to break into the Capitol to make MAG look bad.

[B]

Well, April, it's ridiculous to think that MAGA people would get violent. I mean, yeah, maybe the KKK endorsed Trump and maybe David Duke, former Grand wizard, thought that Tucker Carlson's segment on the Great Replacement Theory on Fox was a great idea and so good. But let's be really clear, you know, I mean like maga, they're not a violent type that of course, antifa. It's the people in costumes, it's the people who holding umbrellas. They're the violent ones. And you know, April, we know just like how Turning Point USA has has a headquarters and raises millions of dollars and has or had like you know, a main hero person that was Charlie Kirk, you know, doing all these things in the name of Turning Point usa. And TIFA has that too. I mean, I'm sure you know the name of the person who is the, the founder of Antifa who's touring college campuses. I, I don't want to say his name and give it away, but we all know who it is.

[A]

Can I tell you something funny? So in 2020, I lived in Cleveland Tennessee at the time. And so I went to. Probably not. This is not an exaggeration. We had nightly Black Lives Matter protest because that was in the wake of George Floyd's murder. And so I went multiple times a week for that whole summer, okay. And they had counter protesters and they started writing these, like, opinion pieces in the local newspaper about how we were all antifa. And they singled out one guy who was one of the local conservative Christian college professors, son. But he had long hair and wore a bandana. And we all wore masks at the time because it was a pandemic, right? So you couldn't really see our faces. But they pinpointed this guy because he was tall and he had long hair and he wore black most of the time. And they. They out of nowhere just pulled it out of their butts that he was our antifa leader. And they literally called him antifa super soldier. And there was one lady. There was a lady who went Facebook live because they were counter protesting us and they shouted at us the whole time. We had a. Like, we were intentionally a silent demonstration because we knew anything we did, they would twist to make it seem like we were violent. But she. She was filming one time and zoomed in and I was standing next to him. He zoomed in on him and he was like. She was like, there he is. This was Tennessee. So all very thick Southern absence accent. Like, there he is.

[E]

He's.

[A]

He's the leader of this antifa group, like Aunt Tiffa. So we were like, who's Aunt Tifa? This is kind of an inside joke. But anyway, they literally just make stuff up according to everyone. Cleveland, Tennessee. I was a member of Antifa despite not being a member of Antifa.

[B]

Yeah, and then ignore the insurrection, ignore the Trump flags, ignore the appeal to heaven flags, and ignore the Christian flag. Ignore. Nor the prayer to Jesus. Like, we do not talk about that enough. There was a group of men in the Senate chambers who said, jesus Christ, we invoke your name. Amen. And then they gave a minute and a half long prayer thanking Jesus for the opportunity to storm our Capitol building. But those aren't the terrorists. It's antifa.

[F]

Who.

[B]

It's the same thing. Like when they say, that's woke or the left, what are they talking about? And listen, I think this is intentional. This is really important for the audience to understand. Fascism relies on terms that are vaguely defined because they want their audience to insert the version of the boogeyman they have in their head and associate it with that word. So when I think of Antifa.

[D]

Right.

[B]

I think about some person like in their mid-20s, dressed in all black with an umbrella. But when a Fox News watcher thinks of Antifa, they might think of something completely different. And that is by design. Because the truth doesn't matter in Christian nationalism. Truth is always subservient to power and propaganda. And so it's. We have to laugh at this because they're so obviously disingenuous and they're so ignorant, but it's all by design.

[A]

Yep. So we wanted to watch. There's this video of Kristi Noem from Antifa roundtable. Just play it.

[B]

All right, let's watch this video, Christina. And yeah, let's hear all about this Antifa terrorist threat that's just taking over suburbia.

[E]

We arrested recently in Portland was the girlfriend of one of the founders of Antifa. And that we are hoping that as we go after her interview her and prosecute her, we will get more and more information about the network and how we can root them out and eliminate them from the existence of American society. I want to thank the new journalists.

[A]

Pause before she gets to our next thing. Just a reminder that Antifa was initially founded in the 20s and 30s. So how old is this girlfriend of one of the founders of Antifa? She's like A hundred, what, 100 years old?

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Well if she was the girlfriend, then, you know, she's probably at least 20, so. 120. Wow.

[B]

Wow. Look, it pays to be anti fascist. I mean, look, you can live to be so long.

[A]

And she came from Europe to America.

[B]

Wow. I bet she's rich. You know, I bet she runs an organ. Listen, I bet Antifa has tens of millions of dollars in the bank. You know, they're a very organized and very public facing organization.

[A]

Right. One of the girlfriend of the founders, like what is she talking about?

[E]

Who is this here today for telling their stories and for being able and willing to go to the streets and to cover what's happening here in America. Many times the legacy media has looked the other way, refused to tell the stories. The networks have not really focused on what this is and what damage it is doing to our country and how this network of Antifa is just as sophisticated as Ms. 13, as TDA, as ISIS, as Hezbollah, as Hamas, as all of them.

[B]

Okay, first off, the journalists that she's referring to in this wide shot, the. These are all right wing, like just influencers. Like one of them is Andy. No. Incredibly disingenuous for so many reasons. We don't have time to go into all of that. But like, these are not actual journalists who have gone to school to learn, you know, journalism 101. That's not what this is. This is right wing influencers who have every incentive to puppet the propaganda of the regime. But literally, I'm sorry, April, we got a great comment on Substack. Patrick says, those idiots. It's a round table. And the table isn't even round.

[A]

That is a 90 degree angle. Great table.

[B]

I'm dying. Okay, I had to point that out. Like, great, Patrick. That is a great, A great call out because you're right. Like, it's not even a real roundtable anyway.

[A]

You know what, though? Trump would be the, like this is a roundtable and all of his supporters would be like, it is a roundtable. What are you talking about?

[B]

Yeah, if you look at, if you look at it from this angle and you do that, you do math this way, It's a full 360, you know, but look, to say that antifa is as sophisticated as isis. I mean, the American people, they can't. And I don't mean this, I don't mean this in a dehumanizing way, but they cannot be that stupid. They just can't. They, they just cannot. They cannot be that stupid. To really think that what Christie said is coherent, is logical, is truthful. Unbelievable.

[A]

There are no antifa leaders. It's not organized intentionally. Like, I don't know how to explain it to people other than. It's just not a thing. They're, they're just making stuff up. Also, I want to point out too, Trump's Trump appointed FBI Director Christopher Wray from his first term in 2020 because. Because Trump also brought up Antifa in 2020 and they were saying they were the reasons there were all these Black Lives Matter protests everywhere. But in 2020, Christopher Wray said that it, that Antifa is an ideology, not an organization.

[B]

Yeah, I had that actually. I'll pull that up for you.

[A]

Yeah. And this is, this is a Trump appointed FBI director.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

In 2020, came out and said it's not actually an organization. It's. It's more an ideology.

[B]

Right. This is, this isn't some left wing Marxist liberal. This is a Trump person. So again though. But does truth matter, April? Like, I think you and I are almost too gracious for. We assume that if we could just tell people the truth, especially MAGA people, they'll go, oh, I'm sorry, I was misinformed. I'll change my mind. And that's just not how it works in this space. It does, it does not work that way. However, I do feel like, especially in the age where propaganda is only growing, all the more for us to double, triple, quadruple down on telling the truth every single day on the show and be willing to correct ourselves when we get something wrong. We're never going to be a hundred percent right. We're going to be misinformed on something. We're going to read the wrong headline. We want to be accountable to, to that. But like we have to be loud, loud, loud and not let these people change like or not make it acceptable just, just to lie from your, your, your, your chair as a Trump official and for us to go, well, that's just MAGA being maga. No, these are liars. These are, they are lying to you and we have to be clear about that.

[A]

Yeah, you know what? We do have some clips of these radical.

[B]

Oh, you're right.

[A]

These radical antifa members allegedly from Portland. Do you want to pull up how vicious. Yeah, I just trigger warning members are?

[B]

Yeah. You know what, speaking of correction, I, I forgot we had this clip. So I just, if you have kids in the room, maybe close their eyes. This is real intense. I'm just going to play this out. I, I'm only going to play a few seconds because if not we'll get flagged for the audio on YouTube. But here is why. Footage Antifa Takeover Portland standoff with ice. There you go, friends. We're still playing the video, but if you're watching on podcast or listening on podcast, it is a group of people, many of which are in costumes, I think. Is that the, is that the dinosaur from the Rugrats movie?

[A]

Rats. Yeah, it does kind of look like it.

[B]

Yeah. And there's like a unicorn dancing around.

[A]

Unicorn, raccoon and maybe a bear.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Did you see the video of the. There was also like an anti fascist frog that got pepper sprayed.

[B]

Yes, yes. I don't have it. I don't have the clip. But I've seen that clip. Right? Yes.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. So there was also an image of, there's, there's people that have tea parties. They just set up little tables and, and dress very Victorian and sit and sip tea in front of ice. Like just reading a little book.

[B]

Do you know how, do you know how you know they're lying? Because if there was real footage of a well oiled antifa regime that was violent, the footage would be all over the place. You don't think the Trump administration would play it 24 7. You don't think Fox News would just play the terabytes of footage out there of this widespread Antifa, what they're calling is a terrorist organization inflicting violence on ICE agents, on civilians. The reason why you don't see it is because it doesn't really exist. Now, that being said, of course, in a country of 300 million Americans, you're gonna have people who get violent. That's gonna happen. Okay? But to blame it on Antifa or on like a well organized, intentional thing is so disingenuous, can I tell you?

[A]

So from that same Christy Noem said, the reason basically was saying, like, the reason why we're not seeing these terrorist attacks. This wasn't in this video. This is a quote for NBC. They just quoted her. She says, I was in Portland yesterday and had the chance to visit with the governor of Oregon and also the mayor there in town, and they are absolutely covering up the terrorism that is hitting their streets. She said during the roundtable about Antifa, these leaders in these local cities, along with Pritzker and Johnson, ignore what's going on. They're helping Antifa cover it up. Like, here's my question. If Antifa is actually destroying these towns and committing terrorism, why would the governor and the mayor cover that up? Like, if that's actually happening, they would welcome the National Guard and the federal help. They're just lying.

[B]

Look, I, I'm, I'm quite progressive. Some might even call me a leftist. Right? If I was the mayor of a like, of like Portland and I saw a vigilante group going around town and inflicting violence on citizens, I would want all the help I can get. And you're, you're looking at a leftist. I'm like, hey, we got to figure this out, right? This is not good. So obviously, you know, like, obviously like what mayor, what governor wants more violence in their streets? Well, maybe, maybe, maybe Trump does. But, you know, you're absolutely right. It's a great point. Also, we did get a super chat. I think I should read it really quick. Thank you so much. Steve the Clown grew up in Portland. Oh, great. Was there during the protests at Justice Center. It was always police ICE that started the violence. Grateful I moved to the Oregon coast. Thank you for the super chat. If I could just add to that briefly. I'm not sure if you know this, April. I'm sure you do, but you know that, that a big talking point, obviously with this MAGA group as well. The Summer of Love, Black Lives Matter was so violent. They were literally burning Cities down. Okay, well, if you look at the actual data, like the actual studies, studies show that the Black Lives Matter protests, which by the way, were I think the largest national protests ever to happen in America. Like tens of millions of people all across the nation, decentralized, but all doing the same thing. 90, like 5% of all protests they found were peaceful. Okay, 90, it's in the 90s, maybe it's 91. And they also found that the majority of the violence was started by either counter protesters or the police. And the people who did commit violent acts were found and prosecuted. So this narrative of like Black Lives Matter was so violent is actually ridiculous. Now you compare that to the January 6th insurrection. There was one insurrection with a couple thousand people and it was violent. That's 100%. It was 100% violent. So it's just very frustrating hearing the propaganda and the lies and how they use certain situations to derail from the truth of who's actually driving the violence. We know that right wing violence in the past 30 years is overwhelmingly more consistent than it is on the left. Now, again, that doesn't mean that left wing acts of violence don't happen. Certainly we condemn those things. We were always going to say that. But like, if you look at the actual data over the past 30 years, the graph, it's almost comical, right? So it's just, it's very frustrating to watch this happen in real time.

[A]

Well, yeah, and I've been on the receiving end of being accused of being violent when I, when I was not. Like I went to these Black Lives Matter protests with my 60 year old mom and like half the protest, like every hour, we would kneel for, what was it, 9 minutes and 11 seconds, whatever the time was that that cop had his knee on George Floyd's neck, we would kneel in silence and pray. And the other people still said that there was literally an article and a county commissioner, a former county commissioner, like elected officials were saying that we wanted to kill everyone in Cleveland. Like to be on the receiving end of such a, of absurd lie, like is, is. It's really wild to just be like, like they're just pulling it out of their butts. They're making stuff up.

[B]

I'm just thinking about your mother, who is a total gem, picking up like a brick, just yelling, you know, like, just throw your brick through a window. Like you're like, yeah, like, okay, okay, yeah. Your mother. The violent ones clearly, you know, join me, comrades, we can overthrow.

[A]

I know, well, and I do think, you know, every accusation is A confession. Because now we're going to show you clips coming out of Chicago of ICE actually being violent.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know, and you know, we didn't talk about this on the Live last week, but they. They rappelled out of helicopters onto a building, pulled everyone out of their. Their apartments in the middle of the night, zip tied children who, some of whom were naked, pulled them out of their beds for, like, no reason. They claimed that people. That everyone in the building was an illegal immigrant.

[B]

Yep. I mean, this. Look, this is actually a great maybe point to bring this up, but we need to realize how one of the tools of Empire is to say that. That violence is bad and wrong. But what they're actually saying is whenever violence is used against us, it's wrong, but we can use violence whenever we want. And Christian nationalists are totally fine with this, by the way. Like, Christian nationalists are going to utilize the power of Empire to inflict violence on their neighbors whenever they see fit. But they also are then going to decry any kind of uprising or rebellion or rebellion that might have violence as a part of it.

[D]

Right.

[B]

And that would be the justification for this state to then enact more violence. And look, I'm. I am someone, and I know you are, too, April. We're still kind of coming out of, like, our evangelical fundamentalism, Right? We're still learning to decolonize and learning how to see things differently. And I still forget that, like, when I see an agent or an ICE agent brutally trying to arrest a protester or assaulting them, if it was reversed, if it was an antifa person, all black, beating up on an ICE agent, we all be outraged. Hey, there's. There's no place for violence here. I would probably say that myself, but. But because it's the opposite, I'm just so desensitized. I'm like, oh, well, you know, they. They're the law enforcement, so I guess it's okay, but. No, it's not okay. It's not okay for our government to be sending in a politicized military overriding people's constitutional rights and using violence. Right. These are peaceful protesters. We have videos of this. I mean, I think one of the most damning clips that we should play is this one. And we're going to get into the details in a second here. But this, This, I think, is really telling. And this is why you and I cover Christian nationalism, because you and I have been beating the drum for so long that Christian nationalism is not just about Christianity. It's about a very specific stream of what we call is, like, Christian supremacy, Right? It's this white evangelicalism that believes anything, including other Christians, outside of its walls, are heretical, are false, and should be treated as such. Right. So this is. Yeah, this.

[A]

Can I just. I want to. This is Reverend David Black. No, you're fine. He's a Presbyterian minister. You're fine. And he was interviewed after this. So you're about to see ICE shoots. He's unarmed. He's. They're going to shoot a pepper ball to his head. He was interviewed after. And I just want to. I want to tell you what he's saying in this clip, because you can't hear it. He's looking up to the top of this building where these ICE agents are standing, and this is in front of an ICE facility. He has his arm spread, rides. And he says that. What he said. He said, I invited them to repentance. I basically offered an altar call. I invited them to come and receive that salvation and be part of the kingdom that's coming. And they said that one of the things that they would chant in this protest was, love your neighbor, Love your neighbor, Love your God, save your soul. Quit your job.

[B]

Whoa, sorry. This. That one got me. I mean, yes, Jesus, like, so you could.

[A]

You could argue that this man, this minister, is actually living out the teachings of Jesus right here. He's actually speaking. He's speaking Christ's love to people, to ICE agents who have inflicting so much harm on this city. He's up there, there talking to them, pleading to them to have empathy. Right, for their neighbors. And you. You'll watch. This is what ice.

[B]

So for the podcast audience, you know, I'm sure you've seen the clip, but these are peaceful protesters exercising their First Amendment. It's a protest. They're not inciting violence. And this pastor has his hands out, chanting what you said, April. And the response by these agents is to shoot him in the head with a pepper ball. And, like, honestly, it just really. When I get angry or frustrated, I tend to tear up more than, like, yell, because it's just how I function. But it makes me so angry, I don't know what to do, but. Except to cry because it's so. It's just really bizarre being conditioned your whole life to expect Christian persecution. Right. And to expect that there's this world and this government that hates you. And if anyone's going to use that kind of rhetoric and apply it, this pastor can do that. He was standing up for his marginalized neighbor, protesting an ICE agency, doing What Christ would be doing. And he was shot by the government for doing that. That for his beliefs. I mean, that would be Christian persecution, in my opinion. But the world of white evangelicalism that taught me to look out for that has nothing to say to this. Someone in the chat brought up, where's Frank Turek or Elisa Childers? Now, for those of you who don't know, they are two evangelical apologists. In fact, I just did a long response to their video on Charlie Kirk's funeral. It's on the New Evangelicals YouTube channel. You can watch it. But that's exactly right. I haven't asked myself the same question. Where are all these Christians with the persecution kink? Because this government that they voted for is attacking Christians for doing Christ like things. Nonviolent peaceful protests, inviting these agents into a better way of being. April, you and I have been doing this show for a while. How often have I said that, that I'm all about repentance and inviting people into a better way of being? Here he's doing that and he gets shot in the head for it. Wow. Wow.

[A]

He said too, in that same interview that after they shot him, you can hear they're shooting more people in the crowd with pepper balls, which are non lethal, but those still hurt, especially if you're getting like, from that distance. But he said that they could hear the. The agents laughing. I believe they were doing that. Well, you.

[B]

You have to be pretty soulless to have the job of an ICE agent in America right now, where you're or you have to be racist or hateful. I mean, what other way anyone with empathy would think, I can't do this. You want me just to smash car windows in with children in the back to rip people away from their immigrant hearing, from their immigration hearings? You want me to shoot clergy in the head with pepper bullets? So what's left but the most, you know, vicious, dehumanizing people that would do that? And there is a response I wanted to highlight here because I think that sometimes, April, people think that you and I are hyperbolic or we exaggerate claims when we say that, that Christian nationalists actually don't give a shit about Christians. They care mostly about white conservative Christianity. I think people think. No, no, Tim, I think you're a little extreme there. Well, we're really not, because this is William Wolf. This is a man, by the way, who has been part of the Trump regime in the first term. He was recently at the White House praying over President Trump. And William Wolf said in Trump's America you can just pepper spray heretical pastors now. It's the same pastor that, that you, that that got shot in the head who protested ice, but it's a picture of him getting bear sprayed or pepper sprayed in the face. This is a Christian. William Wolfe is, he claims to be a born again Christian. These Christian nationalists do not care about anyone except for who they think is their tribe. And that doesn't, that doesn't, that doesn't fall along theological lines. That's why atheists like James Lindsay are welcomed into the fold. That's even why William Wolfe, who by the way thinks that women can't be leaders and pastors and that it's heretical, will pray alongside Paula White over Trump. Because it's not really about the theological conviction or even the idea of Christianity. It's about their small minded, narrow tribe that is hell bent on power and control. That's why they don't care that the data says most of the immigrants being targeted by this administration are indeed Christian. Right. Because it's not about that.

[A]

Well, and he's not the only minister that is being attacked. There is another Reverend, Reverend Hannah Carden. She's a United Methodist pastor. She said that she was also at the protest in Chicago and that she had been shot multiple times with pepper bullets, including while she was praying with her eyes closed and hands lifted where she was wearing a clerical collar and stole like clearly a minister still shooting someone praying. And you have maga that they'll, they'll scream Christian persecution if you, if they get called a bigot, they scream Christian persecution if there's a gay person in a Netflix show, they scream Christian persecution if you dare say something bad against their great leader, Donald Trump. But when actual ministers who, who are standing up for the marginalized, as Jesus called us to do, are getting shot with bullets while they're praying, they say nothing.

[D]

Yep.

[A]

It is so infuriating because I don't know what it's going to take for them to choose the red letters over their stupid red hats.

[B]

Yep. That's why I've started using more Christlike language and calling them sons of hell and whitewashed tombs and broods of vipers because they are like, I, you know, it hit me the other day and I want to be careful with how I say this, April. It's kind of a new thought. I believe in forgiveness. I believe in loving one's enemies 100%. And also, Jesus never really extended or even offered forgiveness to the religious elite because they didn't really want it. They were Too busy in their piety. Now, I'm not saying that personally for me, you know, I hate my enemies. I love them. I want them to repent.

[A]

But.

[B]

But if they won't repent and they're gonna harm my marginalized neighbors, I'm gonna use the words that Jesus used to describe people like them. That's the bottom line. They are sons of hell. I'm sorry, they are whitewashed tombs they swallow. You know, they are people who levy unhealthy burdens on their congregants that cause so much damage. I'm at a point, I think, in my journey with this where I wanna be very careful and not dehumanize my enemies. I think that's a core value for me.

[D]

And.

[B]

And also I have to stop sugarcoating the reality. I have to stop. I have to stop trying to play footsies with people who want to see my immigrant neighbor thrown into a concentration camp, disappeared by this freaking government, and then say nothing about injustice. Meanwhile, their social media feed is all mad because Bad Bunny got picked to perform in the super bowl halftime show and Chip and Joanna Gaines had a gay couple on their show. Are you like, guys, if you think. If you think that's where your outrage should be? As a Christian, we worship different gods, we follow different Christs. And guess what? I could defend the one I follow with the red letters. You cannot. And I think that I'm at a point in my journey where I'm like, I have no more patience for people who at this point look around in society and see everything that's happened in less than a year into this regime's rule. The Nazi salute from Elon Musk. Right? The funding of usaid. Remember Doge, April? Remember when Doge was a thing? Stripping the government from like, from. From food that was going to starving children. That feels like it was a lifetime ago. That was like five or six months ago. And we can go down the list. If you look around at this regime and you go, things are great. We're so back. I have nothing to say to you. Besides, we're on the. We're on opposite sides, my friend. And one side wants liberation for all of their neighbors, even their MAGA neighbors. And the other one thinks that using state sanctioned violence and weaponizing the military and sending it into cities that they don't like is somehow a godly biblical perspective. Last thing briefly, someone in the substack chat, Karen. Good question. Karen asked, what are red letters? Thank you for asking me that. April and I sometimes speak the Christianese language because we're still Christian and grew up that way. When we say the red letters are referring to in some Bibles, the red the Jesus. The words of Jesus are highlighted in red. So when we say the red letters, we're talking about the words that Jesus actually said in the four gospel accounts. That's all that means. And I honestly, friends, if we say things that you're like, I don't know what that means, please put it in the chat so we can explain, because April and I take that stuff for granted sometimes.

[A]

And Christianese and evangelical e. And sometimes we forget that not everybody knows that language.

[B]

So apologies.

[F]

Hey, everyone, this is Melinda Hale, the executive director of the New Evangelicals. Listen. Every day we hear from people who feel isolated, disillusioned, and hurt by a version of Christianity that has been hijacked by politics and nationalism. And yet they still long for a faith that is rooted in love, justice, and compassion. And that's why the New Evangelicals exist, because we believe there is a better path forward. We're creating resources, hosting conversations, and we're building communities for people who want to reclaim Christianity and stay rooted in the teachings of Jesus. But building a movement like this takes time. It takes energy, and it takes financial support. So if this podcast or our YouTube, our educational offerings or community space or anything that we've created has impacted you, would you consider becoming a donor? Even a gift of $5 makes a huge difference for for small organizations like this. Your support helps us to continue empowering people to put their faith into action by rejecting Christian nationalism and to live in a way that shows people how to truly love our neighbors. Together, I know that we could build something beautiful. So visit thenewevangelicals.com support to give today. You can find the link right in our show notes. Thank you for standing with us.

[B]

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[F]

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[G]

Hi, my name is Brent and I live in central Illinois and I'm a new donor to the New Evangelicals. I spent about 30 years in ministry, half the time as a missionary overseas and half the time serving in two small US Churches as a pastor. During those years, I had lots of questions and doubts and I saw so many inconsistencies. The way that we dealt with theology and the Bible and just our American church culture, it was very frustrating to me. And so I kept going to sources to try to find answers to make sense of it all, but just never found something that made sense to me. A year ago, I did step down from being a pastor, not because of those things, but for other reasons. And I started a deep dive into going to other sources, including the New Evangelicals podcast that has really helped me to reframe my faith. And it's kind of like the old prescription of glasses that I was wearing to see God and my faith and Christianity just wasn't cutting it anymore. And the new prescription of glasses has allowed me to be able to see things so much better. So I'm on a different path. And I'm very thankful to Tim and the New Evangelicals for introducing me to different guests and commentaries that's helping reshape my faith. So being a donor is a great privilege and I appreciate the work you're doing.

[A]

Do we want to show a few of the more positive things happening in Chicago, just like the people that are standing up and then we'll move on. We're a little behind, but what's new?

[B]

Let me just we got two more super chats. Again, thank you so much friend. All super chats go right to making this show possible. If you're watching this stream right now and you're watching on YouTube, thank you so much. Please give this stream a like it helps get it out to more people and make sure you sub to the channel. We are, I think 100 people away from 10,000 subs, which is so exciting. If you're watching on substack, please feel free to restack this live and to follow me in April. Im Whitaker speaks at AprilJoy and you can follow the New Evangelicals as well at the New Evangelicals on Substack. So okay, super chat number one, Kelly, love you and your show how are we feeling about the no Kings protest on 10 18? Will we be safe? I think overall, you probably will be, but you just never know. I think that's.

[A]

I will say this would not be one. Just with the climate. I pro. I would not bring my kids.

[B]

That's a good point. Yeah, that's good.

[A]

That's. That's what I would say. Just. Just me personally, but, you know, can you read these?

[B]

Can you. Can. Can you see this?

[A]

Yeah, Yeah, I can read them. Let's see. We have one from Joseph Compton. Says this act shows the real face of Christian nationalism. This shows their fraudulent faith. Anyone who doesn't agree with them is a heretic. Thank you, Joseph, for the super chat.

[B]

And last one from Stevie Declan.

[A]

Stevie Clown 2000. I read about some white Christians think the Beatitudes are woke ideology. Red letters matter. You're not wrong. There are people that are considering Jesus too sissy now to follow. So that's fun.

[B]

Oh, boy. Okay. Oh, wait, really? We have so many clips. Do you want to play this one of the protester who recorded the clergy, the pastor getting attacked or just. We can skip it for now.

[A]

I think we probably just need him move to the.

[B]

You're right. You're right.

[A]

We have a video of the mayor and then just. I mean, these are shorter clips, I think, but to Chicago's credit, they are. I'm actually so proud of the citizens and even the police. Like, there are policemen that are standing with the citizens of Chicago against ice. Like, who would have thought that we'd be, you know, cheering for cops in 2025?

[B]

Hey, man, you do what you got to do. You know, like, you just do what you got to do. So just for the podcast audience, some of these clips are kind of noisy, but this first one is a group of peaceful protesters pushing back ICE agents. I love that. That's a lot of people.

[A]

I mean, a lot of people A long time.

[B]

Yeah, I'll play without the audio. Yeah, I mean, it's. It's rolling over there for sure.

[A]

And.

[B]

Yeah. And you can see ICE agents kind of moving out of the way. It's like an overhead shot, so it's powerful. I love seeing this. Like, this is the way you resist fascism. You have to work with your communities to do what you gotta do to get people like these folks out of here.

[A]

This other peaceful. These people are doing, they're standing up for what's right through peaceful means. Despite what the Trump administration is saying, the violence is coming from the ICE agents.

[B]

Exactly. Now, this one is A great clip. I mean I gotta say this is brilliant. I'm gonna lower the audio because it's very, it's very noisy. But the caption is people are following ice in their cars to warn Chicagoans. So this is true. Check this out.

[A]

So they, they are just following ice cream, ice vehicles and honking and yelling to warn people that ice is coming.

[B]

I love it. Like you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, resistance can get creative and it is really encouraging to see people in their beat up cars which by the way, I own a very beat up car and just honking. A guy is handing, is standing out of the sunroof on one of them, this guy right here. And he's just like, he's letting people know, hey, this is happening. Yes, absolutely. And we're going to share this on a future. I think next Thursday we have a pre record. So I'll be out of town, but we're going to be sharing some of the other faith leaders in Chicago who are working to resist ice and fascism from a Christian perspective, which I think will give a lot of Christians out there a ton of hope, which is really great.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. And I, I just had a brain to brain tube. I was in Sunday.

[B]

Your brain just tooted.

[A]

No, I had a point and it liter. As I started talking it was like, no, we're going to forget what you're going to say. That's fun. I still have mom brain. Blame that.

[B]

I'm sorry I'm chatty today, April. I'm just feeling, I'm feeling it today. So I know I'm talking a lot, but. Oh, I'm just so fired up.

[A]

Yeah, I apologize. No, no, no, you're fine. But I do love what Chicago is doing and coming together like that's actually community and standing up for good. Hi, Melinda.

[B]

Melinda, Our executive director of the new evangelicals hopping in. Good to see you as always. Oh my goodness.

[A]

Do you want to play the video from the Chicago mayor?

[B]

Oh, did I grab. I know I grabbed that. Hold on. Yeah, yeah. And then, and then from there we'll go to a short break.

[A]

Yep. Okay, Last one. Promise and we'll get to the. We'll move quick in our next segment.

[B]

Yeah, sure, we will.

[C]

Sure, sure.

[B]

Okay, here we go. This is the Chicago mayor talking about ice in Chicago.

[D]

Congress will not check this administration. Then Chicago will. Today we are signing an executive order aimed at reining in this out of control administration. The order establishes ice free zones. That means that city property and unwilling private businesses will no longer serve as staging grounds for these Raids. Our school parking lots are not for ICE to load their weapons. They are for Chicagoans who drop their kids off to learn. Our libraries are not for ICE to prepare for a raid. They're for Chicagoans to read and relax. Our parks are not for ICE to set up checkpoints. They are for Chicagoans to play and enjoy. Private establishments can partner with us to make it clear that private property is private property, and ICE cannot enter establishments without a valid warrant. Private entities may voluntarily choose to display signage to designate their property as part of a citywide network of community spaces that stand together in affirming the safety, dignity, and belonging of all of our residents. By extending this protection beyond city owned land, the order builds a broad civic shield that limits the reach of harmful enforcement practices. It strengthens neighborhood solidarity, and it reaffirms Chicago's role as a welcoming city.

[B]

Hell yeah.

[A]

Hell, yeah. That's how you do it.

[B]

That's how you do it. Oh, my God.

[A]

And just imagine, like just the optics, too, of the mayor, the governor of Illinois, the citizens, the cops, all are at odds against this. These federal ICE agents, they are not welcome there. They don't want them there. And I also think it's. It's. It's the. I don't know if you've seen the ads of people, of the recruitment ads to get people to join ice.

[B]

I've seen a few.

[A]

They. There are ads out there and I would imagine. I can't imagine morale is high, you know, with. When you are hated so much by so many people. I mean, they wear masks.

[B]

Public shame is good. Public shame can be a very effective tool, and this is one of the times to use it, especially when you're.

[A]

When you're doing shameful things. Yes, but like interest. So like cops for one hand. And like, there's been plenty of problems with behavior from police that we've addressed. Plenty of times, you know, with police brutality, like, that is definitely a thing. But to be a police officer, you do go through de escalation training and you have the police academy and you're actually trained. These ICE agents, I don't know what their training is, but it can't be much because they're hiring them so fast and then just putting them out in the field. And you can tell they're not trained. Yeah, like the way that they interact. Yes. You can tell they have no idea what they're doing.

[B]

First off, this video, friends, I'm not gonna play the whole thing. It actually, it starts off terrible. It ends great. These two men come out to try to abduct this what is assumed to be an immigrant. And you got a man here. Where's the picture of him? Where is he? He is literally in a T shirt with a New York Yankees hat on. Look at this. You're telling me this guy's trained?

[A]

Yeah, they're in unmarked vehicles. Some of them are not even wearing ICE badges or ICE uniforms. And they're not identifying themselves, which is just giving credence for just anyone to go and kidnap anyone.

[B]

I mean, this is. This is like Rent a Cop. It's just Rent a Cop. It's wild. And by the way, good news, this person, the community fought off ICE agents, non violently. And they backed off and left him alone and got back in their unmarked car and took a hike. So, you know, the good news is important, April. Right. Like part of how you resist Christian fascism is you find moments of joy. You find moments to resist. You don't let them get in your head and think that it's hopeless. And it's important that we share anything we can. That shows people in. In government, it shows citizens, it shows police officers working together. Right. To push back a blatantly racist and authoritarian power grab that is targeting the most marginalized among us. Undocumented immigrants have no protections. They pay into this system. They can't get health care benefits as we're going to cover in a minute. Unlike what the Republicans say, they are people who have no option to go super public because they're not here and document it. So to see ICE targeting those people is so. Especially in the name of God. Right? This regime was elected in the name of God. It should. It should send a chill down our spine. You wonder in history how countries get real wild and real evil and real dehumanizing and how they start rounding people up and shipping them off to different places that no one knows about. You wonder how that happens.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

Take a look around.

[A]

We know. And they're offering an up to a $50,000 sign on bonus.

[B]

Don't I know it like I know.

[A]

It's just. It's crazy what they're doing.

[B]

We can't get affordable health care. And if you have a child, April, there's no money for you. But if you want to arrest and abduct and kidnap immigrants, we'll give you 50 grand just to sign on.

[A]

Yeah. And what I'm pretty sure we talked about in the big beautiful bill, if I'm remembering correctly, they have more money in the budget for ICE than police for federal funds.

[B]

Not surprised. Should we go to our break.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Let's take a two minute break. You can hear more about the new evangelicals and what we offer as an organization. We'll come back soon. Friends, thank you so much for being here. Give the video like if you're watching on YouTube. I can see all the chats on substack and on YouTube. We would love your feedback, especially to our substack audience. You guys are brand new to the Tim April, I don't know, community space Network. I don't know. Well, no, it's a new evangelicals network, so. All right, see you in a minute.

[F]

Hey everyone, Melinda Hale here, executive director of the New Evangelicals. Thanks for listening to our podcast. I just wanted to take a minute to personally invite you to be a part of our community. At tne, we're creating space for people of faith who care about justice, compassion and living out the teachings of Jesus in real tangible ways. As a nonprofit organization, not only do we offer thought provoking podcasts, but on our new app and online platform, TNE Connect, we offer free educational resources, additional content and a space to connect with like minded people for meaningful conversations and encouragement. So if what we're doing has been helpful to you, if you've learned something, felt seen or been challenged to grow, head over to theneweevangelicals.com to join TNE Connect or make a donation. Your support means the world to us. Thanks for being a part of the movement.

[A]

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[B]

Doug Here we have the Limu Emu in its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug.

[A]

Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us.

[D]

Cut the camera.

[B]

They see us. Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty Liberty, Liberty.

[F]

Liberty Savings vary underwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates. Excludes Massachusetts.

[B]

All right, we're back.

[A]

Hello, we're back.

[B]

Also, can I make a huge breaking news announcement that I can finally say? Sure. Well, you know, many of us watch those jubilee surrounded videos and they just, they just dropped the trailer for one that's happening on Sunday, and they just.

[A]

Dropped a trailer, like, right now.

[B]

They did. I just saw it on my phone and yours truly is in it. Should we play it real quick as, like, a fun thing?

[A]

Are you in the trailer?

[B]

Yeah, I am. I haven't watched it at all, so I have no clue what it looks like.

[A]

Oh, okay. Are you gonna get dinged for this?

[B]

I don't know. I don't know.

[A]

Like, copyright, not dinged.

[B]

I doubt it. I'll put it right through Instagram here. But, yeah, I just saw it come up, so. This is fresh, friends. This is fresh. I'm a little nervous because the person I debated, I've had beef with before, and so here we go. Let's see if this will play. Oh, wait, I gotta change the output real quick. Give me a second, friends.

[A]

No, you're fine. It'll be interesting. I mean, I have, like, conflicting feelings about Jubilee.

[B]

Me, too. And I will. We're going to be doing a live on this, but. Okay, here we go. You ready?

[A]

Yeah.

[F]

Gay people are supposed to be celibate.

[A]

I think that we are all called to deny what the Bible calls sin.

[F]

I don't believe it's a sin to be gay.

[B]

The Bible does.

[A]

That does not mean. That does not mean that I agree with instituting slavery.

[B]

You are very good at this. You should keep moving the goalposts. Okay, How.

[A]

How am I moving the gop?

[B]

The claim you made was that the Bible does not keep going slavery around about slavery. I'm not going to. I'm not going to let it go.

[F]

What we're suffering from right now on the right and on the left is a massive lack of empathy for each other. We're being fed algorithms that show each.

[B]

Other these crazy versions of the other side, and we don't look each other.

[F]

In the eyes and feel for one another.

[A]

My first claim is the Bible says marriage is only between one man and one woman. My next claim is abortion is a grave moral evil. My next claim is empathy can be toxic and lead to sin. My final claim is progressivism and Christianity are at odds. Hi, I'm Ali Beth Stuckey. I'm the host of the podcast Relate.

[B]

All right, enough of that. So there you go. I'm in there. I made it.

[A]

Crazy.

[B]

Listen, I. This is. This is not for this live, but we will be going live on Tuesday to talk about the video that drops on Sunday with me and Ally and other people. I have a lot of thoughts, and we'll get into it then, but That I was cool to watch that on the air with, with everyone and with you for the first time. It's very cool. So.

[A]

Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah, we need to save that for another time. I have so many thoughts.

[B]

Rocket, I'm with you on this. We will address it on Tuesday live at 12 o'. Clock. We're gonna change it up a little bit next week, so make sure you're there on YouTube. Okay, back, back to the show. Back to the show.

[F]

Sorry.

[A]

So obviously a government shutdown. We are currently still in the middle of it. They've not, Republicans and Democrats have not been able to come to an agreement. So basically, what is at the root of this government shutdown? And I will tell you, it's over the Affordable Care act, or also known as Obamacare, those subsidies that make health care affordable for millions of Americans. So basically what Republicans want to do is let them expire. They're supposed to expire at the end of this year. Democrats want those subsidies extended for the sake of Americans. And Republicans are like, nah, we're tired of paying taxes to go towards health care. So basically, if, if Republicans get what they want, which is what Democrats are fighting against, around 2 million people, 2 million Americans will become uninsured next year without these subsidies. And it goes up to 3.8 million over the next decade. But they say what they're more concerned about are the, are millions more people that will probably just drop their health care coverage because they can't afford the higher premiums. Because they estimate that premiums could go up by like more than 100% in some cases. It kind of depends on where you live and how old you are. So like, like an average, like 20 something year old that's earning 22,000 a year. So a lower income person, they would see their premium increase from zero a month to $66. So it would go up $66, which doesn't sound like a lot, but $66 is a lot if you're only making $22,000 a year. Yeah, whereas, but it gets way worse. For if you are someone who's 60 years old and you make around 65,000, which is middle class, they would see an increase from $460 a month to $2,400 a month. And you're talking about older people who need their health insurance, especially because that's when you start to have more health issues in general. So, so that's where the, that's, that's basically where the disconnect is. Right? That's, that's where they can't agree Mike Johnson is lying through his teeth about blaming Democrats for the shutdown. If you go to Fox News, anytime they reference it, they're calling it the Schumer shutdown.

[B]

Of course they are.

[A]

But. So we have, we have a few different videos of Mike Johnson basically repeating the same thing with the subsidies. I do want to also point out, just as an aside, I think, that they don't want to come back from the shutdown, which they're going to have to eventually. But Thomas Massie has enough signatures now for his discharge petition to release the Epstein files, which means as soon as they come back from this shutdown, they're going to, they're going to have their hands going to be forced to release those files. They have the, they have the numbers. So just keep that in the back.

[B]

Of your head just for the sake of time. All I will say is that it's telling that our country can fund genocide. It can fund ICE agents, it can fund an almost trillion dollar a year military, but we're fighting over giving Americans access. I'm not even going to call it affordable health care because I'm part. I get my health care through the marketplace. It is such a shit show. I'll just say some version of some kind of health care that maybe works sometime and can still put you in debt. That's how backwards we are as a country. We're fighting over that. We're not fighting over a single payer system. We're fighting over the ability to put more Americans into more medical debt and maybe subsidize just their monthly premiums so they have something. I'll leave it there. I'll leave it. I'm livid at these Christian nationalists. Okay, first clip.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

How about this one? This is a good one.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay, here we go.

[C]

So they created a red herring. A red herring is a distraction. They, they decided that they would pick a fight on health care. Let me look right into the camera and tell you very clearly, Republicans are the ones concerned about health care. Republicans are the party working around the clock every day to fix health care. We're not. This is not talking points for us. We done it.

[B]

Oh my God.

[C]

Of the one big beautiful bill, the working families tax cut was to fix health care. Health care is broken in America. It's too expensive. The quality of care needs to rise. We need more access for more people. And we have lots of ideas to do that. But that issue is for debate in the next few three months. It always was. We have members working on that. The.

[B]

Okay, I have to say two quick things. Number one, he's not looking into the camera. That's hilarious.

[A]

That's number two.

[B]

Yeah. Number two, does anyone know. I mean, this is a real question. Does anyone. If you're a MAGA supporter listening or watching this, this is a good faith question to you. I'm going to lower my voice. I'm going to real calm for you. Look, this is a real question, Mr. Or Ms. Maga Person. Do you know what the Republican plan is to fix health care in this country? Because Trump's talked about it for years. They keep talking about having a plan. Does. Is anyone aware of their solution? Because it seems like Republicans will acknowledge that our health care system is broken. Okay, great. I'm glad that we agree on reality. But I can give you, like AOC's plan. You can go to our website and find it. I can give you the general Democratic approach to this. Does anyone know what the MAGA fix is that's backed by data that will solve our health care problem? I will tell you that funding a big beautiful bill that is closing down hospitals and that is kicking people off of healthcare is. I know Mike's a smart man, so I don't want to talk down to him. But Mike, that isn't going to fix the problem that you're claiming you're trying to solve. It's just not. Premiums going up is not going to fix the problem that you're claiming to solve. So if any MAGA person out there listening has the. The solution. If there's a website I'm missing, please send it info atthenew evangelicals.com and we'll make sure we cover it because I need to know what the plan is.

[A]

Yeah, well, Karina, in the comment brought up a good point that they were able to find money for a $200 million ballroom. Maybe they can tap those. Whoever they found that money.

[B]

You know, Florida was able to build a concentration camp overnight that was like $400 million in costs, like $100,000 per prisoner that they're keeping. So I guess they can find money when they want to.

[A]

Yeah, it's.

[B]

It's nutso. Nutso. The. Upside down.

[A]

He also in a, in the. In a big plot twist, they lost Marjorie Taylor Greene.

[B]

I don't, I didn't believe it.

[A]

Is siding with Democrats on this.

[B]

Let's just play the clip.

[C]

Let's just.

[B]

Jewish space lasers. Anti Semitic. Marjorie Taylor Greene.

[H]

Okay.

[B]

I mean, I can't believe we're playing this in support, but here we are.

[C]

With regard to the subsidies, remember, that is 100% a red herring. It's a distraction. This is what Chuck Schumer and the Democrats put together to try to make the issue of the day.

[B]

He said the issue of the subsidies, that you couldn't hear it. So he said the issue of the subsidies is a red herring. And it's something essentially that Chuck Schumer and Democrats are talking about right now.

[E]

Mm.

[I]

Well, no, the issues of the. The subsidies are real. It's not something that anybody can say is. Is made up. Also, people with regular or private plans, their premiums are looking to go up a median of 18%. That's brutal. I know a lot of small business owners, like a family of four, and they're paying $2,000 a month. $2,000 a month with deductibles of 7,000 to 10,000. And approximately 40% of these people don't even use their health insurance. So they're just burning money just in case they might have cancer or just in case they have a terrible car accident. And then you've got single moms, many, many Americans that are really struggling, that are on the aca. If you double their health insurance or even triple it, these people are going to. They're either going to have to drop it or they're going to be choosing between doing rent and their health insurance.

[B]

Holy moly. Yes.

[A]

I mean, I agree with what she just said. A thousand.

[B]

She's right. We've covered this on the show, so, you know, it's my go to line. It is wild. And she's right. She's right. I can't believe it. I wonder if it's like a planned PR turn for her. I don't know, but I'll take it. I will take it.

[A]

Maybe she's just now, like, maybe she's starting her deconstruction era.

[B]

You know, I love that.

[A]

I mean, I mean, she's also one of the few Republicans with Thomas Massie calling for the release of the full Epstein.

[B]

I know, I know. So, like, okay, you know, mtg, I have so many bones to pick with you. So many. Like, countless. I will give credit where credit's due. You're on the right side of these two issues. You really are. Now, I hope that you can get some actionables done within your party, because you're absolutely right. I mean, people are paying $2,000 a month. If I lose my subsidy, my health care will go from whatever I'm paying now to like almost $1,000 a month just for me. And my partner, because our kids are on, on like the state plan, which is great for them, by the way. It's like wonderful. And our deductible is like $10,000. It's ridiculous. But don't worry, guys. Mike Johnson has a plan.

[A]

Yeah. This is not an endorsement of Marjorie Taylor Greene because she said and done some horrific things in the past, things she supported. So. But you know, a broken clock can get it right twice a day. And when they get it right, you know, we need all the help we can get in this.

[B]

We are good faith actors. Absolutely. Let's. This is a longer clip. I think it's really worth playing in its entirety. This is Mike Johnson on C SPAN taking a call from someone who is not happy with Mike as a Republican. And let's hear his response. Let's hear her complaint and then his response.

[J]

Hi, Mr. Johnson. So my question or comments are related to what you said yesterday about not being being open to pass any legislation to ensure that military gets paid. I'm sure you can tell by my voice I'm very shaky. Just want you to hear a little bit about my family. I have two medically fragile children. I have a husband who actively serves this country. He suffers from PTSD from his two chores in Afghanistan. If we see a lapse in pay come the 15th, my children do not get to get the medication that's needed for them to live their life because we live paycheck to paycheck. I heard you earlier say that you side with President Trump on anything that he says. Well, I just read an article this morning that said he absolutely, wholeheartedly believes that there needs to be legislation put in so that we do not miss a paycheck. You have the power to do that. And as a result, Republican, I'm very disappointed in my party and I'm very disappointed in you because you do have the power to call the House back. You did that or you refused to do that just for a show. I am begging you to pass this legislation. My kids could die. We don't have the credit because of the medical bills that I have to pay regularly. You could stop this and you could be the one that could say military is getting paid. And I think that it is awful. And the audacity of someone who makes six figures a year to do this to military families is insane.

[B]

All right, Samantha.

[C]

Samantha, I'm so sorry to hear about you.

[B]

Really quick. I mean, that is a powerful call. Can we just acknowledge that? And this is a very common scenario, right? Children who need extra Medical care. Husbands serve the country. Like they held up their end of the bargain for the quote, unquote, American dream. Right. They were patriots. Her husband put his life on the line for the country and this is how they were paid. Let's hear his response.

[C]

Situation. The reason I've been so angry this week and they've been calling me out on media. Johnson's angry. I am angry because of situations just like yours. I have a big military district and my district is the home of the Global Strike Command at Barksdale Air Force Base and Fort Polk, the Joint Readiness Training Center. I have one of the biggest military districts and military families and in America, I have a lot of airmen and soldiers who are deployed right now. And they have young families at home and they have children and in health situations like yours. This is what keeps me up at night. I want you to hear something very clearly. The Republicans are the ones delivering for you. We had a vote to pay the troops. It was the continuing resolution three weeks ago. Every single Republican but two voted to keep the government open so that your paycheck can flow. Every Democrat in the House except for one vote, voted to close it. The Democrats are the ones that are preventing you from getting a check if we did another a vote on the floor. Hey, troops. It's not a lawmaking exercise because Chuck Schumer is going to hold that up in the Senate. He is demonstrating by voting now six times to keep the government closed that he does not want the troops to be paid. And you should listen to his comments last night as reported this morning. He is enjoying this. He said every day gets better for us. Quote, unquote. Chuck Schumer and the Democrats are preventing your family from getting the care they need. Not Republicans. And my heart goes out to you.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

What a little.

[B]

Imagine, Imagine claiming to be a Bible believing Christian and then just utterly BS flows.

[A]

Remind everyone to. Republicans control the House.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

And the Senate.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And the executive branch and the Supreme Court. They are totally in charge and they're still blaming Democrats.

[B]

This is how. This is the propaganda. Right? No, they could have. There could be. There could be two Democrats left in this country and they would still blame those two people for every problem with America. Like it is always going to be this way. It doesn't matter how much power they get.

[A]

That lady was a Republican too, by the way.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Which I do. I do want to say like this shutdown, if there's, if there's a silver lining in all this absolute chaos, is I have seen more and more people and granted, it's still not a huge percentage, but it's some. It's a few a day. Leaving maga.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

Because of how terrible this Trump administration is with all the tariffs. I mean, people were already struggling, recovering from the recession, from inflation, from the global pandemic that we all lived through. And now you have Trump that's adding tariffs and he keeps acting like that's to benefit Americans. Americans pay those tariffs, those price jumps directly affect the consumer. Like my, the coffee that I buy from Costco.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like last year I paid like $10 and now it's $19.

[B]

No, but that's the Democrats fault, obviously. It's so, look, look, dude, it's President Obama's fault from like 15 years ago. Okay? It's obviously his fault. We're still living in Obama's America. Haven't you heard? Like, hello?

[A]

Like, yeah, it's just, it's so. But anyway, more. I do think hopefully more and more people will wake up. But I think, I mean, honestly, I think a huge piece of why he's not rushing to get back in to open the house back up is because The Epstein files 100%. Because that is coming for all of them. And speaking of Epstein and child predators.

[B]

Nice segue, April. Damn.

[A]

Church pastor Robert Morris this past week pleaded guilty to child sex abuse. And he was a former. He was a spiritual advisor to Donald Trump in his first term.

[B]

Yep. Yes. Oh yes, he was. Yes, he was.

[A]

He was very close to Trump.

[B]

If you were around, if you followed us when we were still broadcasting on the New Evangelicals YouTube account, we covered this story in detail. So again, I'm not here to recap the whole thing. The tldr, like April said, is that Robert Morris was the founder of one of the largest megachurches in America. He was.

[A]

I've been to his church multiple times because I lived in Dallas.

[B]

It's. It's Gateway, right? Is it Gateway Church?

[A]

Yep, yep.

[B]

Yeah. And so he's a man who was on the spiritual advisory board for Donald Trump and he's also a man that sexually abused a 12 year old when he was in his 20s in the 80s and covered it up. And he talked about the situation of moral failure in a very obtuse way as, as a way of kind of coming across genuine, when in reality it wasn't just like a moral failure, like, oh, I had an affair one day. You actually assaulted a child.

[A]

A 12 year old.

[B]

A 12 year old. That person fought like hell for justice and now he's been arrested and he'll probably get. Looks like six. Excuse me, six months.

[A]

According, according to a plea agreement, it's a ten year sentence, but he's only going to serve six months of jail time and, and he'll be on probation the rest of the time. He must also register as a sex offender and pay $250,000 in restitution.

[B]

Wow. The millionaire, the multimillionaire.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's like paying $1,000 fine, you know, it's like, is it going to hurt? Sure. Will you survive? Absolutely. Six months for. I'm not going to use the R word because we're on YouTube, but, you know, six months for abusing a 12 year old. And now think about this, friends. Kristi Noems out here is like, Antifa is as organized and as deadly as isis. Meanwhile, Trump's own spiritual cabinet shows its true colors, which I guess makes sense because if you're BFF with a pedophile and you're covering up the release of files that you're probably implicated in, it makes sense that you would pick another pedophile to be your spiritual advisor. Right. Like, why are we surprised? Now? White evangelicals won't give a shit about this there. And if they do, they certainly won't think about Trump being next. In fact, I got to tell you a story, April. I'm going to do it. I'm fired up. I'm going to do it. I'm not going to say who because I don't want to. I haven't. It's just not appropriate. There's a larger Instagram person who does a lot of right wing content as a Christian. She's one of these, you know, like, you know, I'm a true Bible believing Christian. That's why I support, you know, MAGA kind of thing. And she called out Robert Morris. I was like, hey, great, this is my in. Sent her a message, was talking, we talked before. It's like, hey, I totally agree with you that Robert Morris got a light sentence. That should have been much harsher. We agree. Okay. Common ground. We agree. Help me understand how you see this and then see Trump being found liable for sexually abusing a woman and Trump bragging about grabbing women by the genitals and not seeing how, like, how it's the same thing. And she essentially was like, well, the court case, don't really know what happened. I think it's kind of biased. Yeah, like it was that kind of argument. I'm like, oh, my God, it's right in front of you. It is right in front of You. We agree on Robert Morris, but we can't agree on a man who was found liable for sexually assaulting a woman. It's like. It's just. It's mind blowing to me. It is mind blowing. The gymnastics that we're a part of in this maga world, no.

[A]

Trump has become their idol. The maga movement is a golden calf. I think we missed the super chat from earlier.

[B]

Oh, let's do that. And then we'll get to our final segment. This one, it's from Joseph Compton. They say, I wish Mike Johnson would sit his performative Christian ass down. They have zero, I repeat, zero answers. Absolutely it is.

[A]

Is there another one? I think there's another one. Is there one from, um, Kelly?

[B]

I think so.

[C]

We.

[B]

No, we. We read that one already.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

Yep, I got them all here. We're good.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Oh, friends, you hanging in there? If you're watching on Substack, we would love your feedback. This might be a new show for you or a new approach to see two Christians who used to be Christian fundamentalists and Christian nationalists now helping you dismantle the very thing that we help build. That's kind of our, our, our, our angle on all of this. But honestly, please give Lincoln Square Media your feedback. We always want to make sure that we're making a compelling show every week. We also do go. We release episodes on podcasts as well and on YouTube so you can check out our channel. And if you're looking for a community, if you're looking for a place to belong that's digital, I recommend joining TNE Connect. We have our own off of the algorithm space that is built for people to get access to free resources, regional group chats, meet people in your area. We have our own social media feed. You can go to the newevangelicals.com connect to join. By the way, as a 501c3 nonprofit organization, everything we do is totally paywall free. So whenever I advertise the new evangelicals, this is not my attempt to monetize you as a consumer. We don't do that. We rely on the generosity of people to donate as a nonprofit or to give super chats to make all of this work accessible. April and I have no paywalls, even to our personal content like on my substack. Tim Whitaker speaks in April's substack. We've chosen to keep all of our content paywall free because it's just not really our vibe. It's not our thing. It's no shade to creators who do have paywalls. It's just not our approach. So tne Connect, it's its own app. It's also a website you can join for free. We have tons of amazing resources, including tonight, I'll be co hosting or I'll be hosting what's called Theology 101. We have a biblical scholar coming in to help you unpack terms like biblical inerrancy and fundamentalism. And that will be free tonight to watch with me and join in. Ask questions 7:30 on TNE Connect. So make sure you show up again totally free. How'd I do it, April? I kind of winged those, you know.

[A]

All right, that was good. That was impressive.

[B]

I'm off the cuff here, you know.

[A]

Shall we go to our final segment of the show?

[B]

Yes. We need to laugh.

[A]

Beard, Christian.

[B]

I love that chime. This is one of my handpicked ones. You know, April and I, we have, like, a little library of just weird clips from the Christian world.

[C]

You know what?

[B]

Let's just do no context. I'll just paint the picture for the podcast audience. It's a preacher wearing a teal shirt. He's a larger man, beard in a sanctuary. Looks like it's a pretty small church. And that's all I'm going to give you. Let's hear what he has to say. Minute and a half clip. Here we go.

[H]

For without are sorcerers. Sorcerers. Are you a sorcerer? You know, that word there is all built around pharma.

[F]

Pharma.

[H]

The actual word there, I believe is actually pharmacos. In Galatians 5:20, when it says witchcraft, it says pharmacia. Let me ask you something. Have you fallen into sorcery? What is the base of sorcery? Source. Who is your source? What is your source? Ptsd. Marijuana works, man. Adhd? Marijuana works, man. Hey, dude, let me tell you something. A band aid works, man, but it don't really work, man. It just covers it up. The healing don't come from the band aid. The healing comes from the design of God. Put him in his proper place and put you in the proper place. If you ain't trusting him as your source, what excuse are you making? What excuse do you have? I know what you're trying to do. You're trying to find joy, peace, gentleness, goodness. You're trying to do all these things and call it faith, and then you'll smoke a little bit of pot and say, man, but it helps me calm down so that I won't knock your head off. All that is fake and false. It's a lie, it's counterfeit. It is a sorcery subject. It does nothing but drag you into the pits of hell.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Hand AIDS class. Strays thoughts class.

[B]

Oh, yeah, that's a weird one, man. That's a weird one. So it's, you know. Yeah. I mean, why wear a band aid? You can just, I don't know, do you pray over it?

[A]

Like, that's sorcery. Why do you need the. I'm so confused. I mean, clearly he didn't get the COVID vaccine. There was like such a huge pharma thing and going during 2020, I mean there were already anti vaxxers and Christians in general, like, especially fundamentalists, a lot of evangelicals, especially pentecostals who believe that God's the ultimate, ultimate great physician that are very anti medicine and anti science in that way. But I do feel like it's been an uptick lately, really since the pandemic. And then now with rfk, and then now you're just, just saying definitely. Well, this Greek word. So the Greek word it is pharmacia.

[B]

But it's not related to it does.

[A]

Mean magic, sorcery or witchcraft from that, that Greek word. But that's not the same thing as like herbs and medicine.

[B]

Like it's first off, I mean, it's the, the short answer is right, April. It's the difference between like a butt dial and a booty call. That's kind of like the little line people use. Like words can sound similar, but they can mean very different things. So it's this idea of just like conflating pharmacea, pharmacy, modern day medicine, pharmaceuticals. It's all bad. It's like you're doing, you're doing so many jumps by ripping something out of its context and putting it into a modern context and then applying a right wing maga anti medicine view. It's just there's so many things wrong with it. It's not obviously it's not worth debunking, is it? So on its face, silly. But my gosh, it's a doozy. I had to share it. I'm like now I think the real, I think that the real plot twist would be if after this clip he's like, and that's why I'm fully vaxxed, you know, so that would just be absolutely hilarious. So anyway, yeah, I don't know. I, I, I wanted to share that for a little bit of fun.

[A]

In ancient Greek pharma kia, it's with a K, so I don't know if that's pronounced right. How he's. I don't know. Says it was used to refer to the practice of using herbs, potions, or spells for medicinal or magical purposes. And over time, the word evolved that talked about science and the art of preparing and dispensing medicines. Okay, well, fair enough, but still not. Not.

[C]

The.

[A]

The whole, like, band aid thing. Like, what are you gonna do if you get like a. A cut and you're bleeding? You're just supposed to bleed out because otherwise it's sorcery. Like, what is he talking about?

[B]

My 3 year old got his first real boo boo. He touched a hot pan without knowing it and got a pretty decent. I'm gonna say second degree burn. Like it bubbled up, you know? And what I'm not gonna do is be like, you'll be fine. No band aid, no ointment. Because pharmacia, like, it leads to. Could you imagine the. But could you imagine if you're that guy's kid and that happens to you and he really believes that, like, it's just. It's dangerous. It's dangerous.

[A]

So, anyway, I know.

[B]

I don't want to start ranting.

[A]

I've heard fundamentalists accuse many things of being witchcraft, but this is the first that I've heard a Band aid.

[B]

Yeah. Hey, first time for everything. Okay. We got a super chat from Nan V. Okay. Buy a sandwich. Okay, will do. Thanks, Nan V. Appreciate that. Are you sure I missed one? I can see all the lists. You said Kelly.

[A]

Was there one from Kelly? I don't know.

[B]

This is the only one I have. It's about no kings protest. Yeah, that's all I have. So cool. All right. Wow, another pack show. Hey, hour and a half, though. We cut the show down by a whole 10 minutes compared to last week, so that's progress.

[A]

I know I need to start giving us more time on our rundown. I just. I always get over ambitious. Like, we'll get through this quick and then I am.

[B]

I am kind of curious to hear from the audience. And again, you can put this in the comments either after this live gets posted or send us an email. Do you guys mind longer episodes like this? I mean, there's just so much to get to. We only do it once a week. April and I can talk forever because we're friends and we talk all five, all the time.

[A]

But.

[B]

But we don't want to feel like we're just wasting your time, I guess because we're on this side of the screen, so it is hard to know the perception of how it is out there. So let us know. You can leave us a comment, you can send us an email. That'd be great. Oh, we got a last minute super chat, then we'll end. Laura Plant, powerpediatrician Shank says as a pediatrician who takes care of newborns, the percentage of parents who are choosing not to even get the vitamin K injection is skyrocketing. Yeah, that will definitely. I have had Jessica Mulatti. Actually, we have. We've had Jessica Mulatti Rivera on the show several times to talk about health and vaccines. And again, you can go to our YouTube channel and find that episode. But we're with you. We're definitely trying to track the Make America Healthy Again movement as well because it is related to Christian nationalism. So thanks for letting us know. So, all right, April, we did it. Another showdown.

[A]

We did it. Look at us. Join us live. Subscribe because nothing bad can happen. It can only good happen. We need to pull that sound bite.

[B]

I forgot to pull it off the. Pull it. And remember, we'll be live this Tuesday on YouTube only talking about my time on Jubilee and watching some of the clips from their episode. I have no clue how it came out. I have no clue how they're gonna edit it. We'll see. All right, friends, I'm Tim Whitaker.

[A]

And I'm April Lajoy.

[B]

See ya.

[A]

Bye, Sam.