57. Conservative Christians Love Trump's Sh*t

Summary

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The Tim & April Show — Episode 57: “Conservative Christians Love Trump’s Sh*t”

Date: October 24, 2025
Podcast Network: The New Evangelicals
Hosts: Tim Whitaker and April Ajoy
Episode Theme: Faith, Politics, and the Rise of Christian Nationalism under Trump

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Episode Overview

Tim Whitaker and April Ajoy return from a brief break to tackle an especially eventful week in U.S. politics and faith culture. The episode zeroes in on the massive nationwide "No Kings" protests in response to Trump’s authoritarianism, the troubling embrace and defense of Trump by conservative Christians, the weaponization of faith in politics, and the disturbing rightward lurch toward Christian nationalism and even fascism within the GOP. Tim and April draw deeply on personal experience, academic data, and viral moments from the week's events, offering both critical commentary and a call to reclaim Christianity for justice and love.

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Key Segments & Discussion Points

1. Community Recap and “No Kings” Protests (05:08–08:58)

• April shares her experience at the No Kings protest in Lexington, KY with her mother:
  • Describes a “100% peaceful” demonstration, marked by community singing, chanting, and Christian-themed protest signs.
  • April: “We were there, it was 100% peaceful. They sang songs and we did chants and it was just a good time, you know, of people being out there using their free speech and protesting, which is a beautiful thing, I think.” (05:10)
  • Her signs: “Trump or Jesus – Can’t Serve Both.” Her mother’s: “Love Thy Neighbor” and “What you do to the least of these, you do to me.”
• Tim remarks on the power of in-person solidarity:
  “It’s also nice to meet…people who are like, I listen to your show and it’s so helpful… It’s good… to be in community with actual people and not just names on the screen.” (06:20)

2. Media & MAGA Response: Downplaying & Demonizing Protesters (07:34–10:14)

• No evidence of violence at protests, despite right-wing fearmongering.
• MAGA influencers attended protests hoping for conflict, left undisturbed—contradicting Fox News narratives.
• April discusses the online backlash:
  • Protest photos garner slurs like “dumb sluts” and “worship Satan,” ignoring the overtly Christian messaging of the signs.
  • April: “They can’t accept the fact that some people used to be Republican, are still Christian, read the teachings of Jesus objectively and realize you cannot follow the teachings of Jesus while supporting the MAGA movement 100%.” (09:16)

3. Trump’s AI “Sh*tting on Protesters” Video & Authoritarian Symbolism (13:31–17:15)

• April and Tim react to Trump’s reposting of an AI video depicting himself as king, literally dumping feces on peaceful American protestors.
• Tim: “He’s literally shitting on American citizens exercising their First Amendment rights.” (15:06)
• The hosts reject defenses that it was “just trolling,” noting the seriousness and frequency of authoritarian symbolism from Trump.

4. Christian Nationalist Rhetoric, Media Spin, and Hypocrisy (18:37–22:04)

• Trump and MAGA figures self-style as “kings,” yet claim Obama and Biden were authoritarians—projection and hypocrisy.
• “Every accusation is a confession.”
• Caroline Levitt and others demonize all Democrats as violent or criminal, contradicting protest reality.
• April: “They do not care that they’re hypocritical because you don’t compromise with the enemy… For them, people like you or the liberals or whoever else, the immigrant, the queer person, the bipoc folk…they are on the side of Satan.” (21:35)

5. The George Soros Boogeyman & Right-wing Propaganda (25:00–27:35)

• Fox News and politicians push the lie that protests are funded by “George Soros.”
• April debunks this, using personal experience with peaceful protests smeared as outside-funded, violent events.
• Tim points out the antisemitic undertones of Soros conspiracy rhetoric.

6. Christian Nationalism: Defining the Ideology (29:12–31:47)

• April offers a concise definition of Christian nationalism—the blending of right-wing political ideology and Christian faith to force “biblical” (conservative) policy.
• Notes that most Christian nationalists don’t label themselves as such, seeing themselves as simply “good Christians” who vote Republican.

7. Authoritarianism: Evidence & Examples from Trump’s Presidency (43:52–52:08)

• Tim and April list concrete examples of Trump’s autocratic actions, including:
  • Deploying military forces against states’ wishes.
  • Bypassing Congress with tariffs.
  • Pursuing political prosecutions, firing officials for not spinning data.
  • Restricting university and media freedoms.
  • Rolling back civil rights, attacking due process, and mass deportations (including the case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia—deported by error and then fabricated as an MS-13 gang member).
• “If not king, why king-shaped?” – April, noting the pattern of monarchic behavior.

8. Data Dive: Who Supports Trump? (53:00–60:28)

• Tim presents recent PRRI data:
  • White evangelicals are the most steadfast Trump supporters (76% approve of his job), also the most supportive of draconian policies on immigration and agency cuts.
  • Contrasted with other religious and demographic groups, white evangelical Protestants are statistical outliers.
• Tim: “If you are a white evangelical Christian, you most likely are cheering on all this shit that is happening in America.”

9. Christianity, Salvation & Trump’s “I’m not Heaven Bound” (61:20–70:46)

• Trump claims he doesn’t expect to go to heaven, which Christian influencers then twist as evidence of “humble” or “theologically correct” thinking.
• April and Tim call out the double standard:
  • “I believe that being gay is not sinful…and they would say ‘well you can’t believe that’…there actually is a framework of having not just right belief but right action, who you vote for, what policies you want to see…”
• Discuss the cheap grace and “salvation by prayer” doctrine used to excuse Trump’s behavior.

10. GOP, Leaked Nazi Texts, and the Normalization of Fascism (76:32–88:46)

• Coverage of leaked group chats from young GOP officials with explicit pro-Nazi and racist jokes.
• J.D. Vance defends: “Don’t focus on what kids say in group chats… kids do stupid things, especially young boys. They tell edgy, offensive jokes. Like, that’s what kids do.” (81:43)
• Tim and April note this is not “free speech,” or “just jokes,” but an alarming sign of fascist normalization—echoing early Nazi Germany.
• Tim: “The reason why scholars…are freaking the fuck out is because they’ve seen the same playbook used in Nazi Germany. They know where we are heading. That’s what scares all of us people.”

11. Personal Reflections: Faith, Betrayal, and the Fight for Justice (90:23–92:20)

• Both hosts reflect on their evangelical upbringing and sense of pain and betrayal watching their former faith communities support authoritarianism.
• Tim: “We can look through history…how the church was also used in Nazi Germany to baptize what the Nazis did…the reason why April and I are so outspoken is because we can see where we are headed.”
• April: “You cannot follow Jesus, the teachings of Jesus, while also following the teachings of Trump, because they are in direct conflict.”

12. [Comic Relief] – “Weird Christian” Segment (93:12–98:14)

• Skit critique: Christian influencer warns that watching Halloween movies lets demons into your life; Tim and April lampoon the over-the-top, fear-driven message versus actual Christian teaching.
• April: “All year, evangelicals are like ‘faith over fear’…then as soon as it’s October, suddenly demons can come through the TV if you watch something scary.”

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Tim:

  • “He’s literally shitting on American citizens exercising their First Amendment rights.” (15:06)
  • “Every accusation is a confession…They do not care that they’re hypocritical.” (18:48)
  • “If you are a white evangelical Christian, you most likely are cheering on all this shit that is happening in America.” (56:34)

• April:

  • “We were there, it was 100% peaceful…protesting, which is a beautiful thing, I think.” (05:10)
  • “They can’t accept the fact that…some people used to be Republican, are still Christian, read the teachings of Jesus objectively and realize you cannot follow the teachings of Jesus while supporting the MAGA movement.” (09:16)
  • “You cannot follow Jesus, the teachings of Jesus, while also following the teachings of Trump, because they are in direct conflict.” (92:20)

• On White Evangelical Support:

  • Tim: “White Evangelical Protestants are the source—the funding, the networking, the promotion, the theological justification, everything. They are the reason we have Trump today. There is no way around it.” (60:07)

• On Leaked GOP Nazi Texts:

  • Tim: “The reason why scholars…are freaking the fuck out is because they’ve seen the same playbook used in Nazi Germany. They know where we are heading…” (84:38 onward)

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Important Timestamps

• [05:05] April describes attending No Kings protest
• [07:34] No evidence of protest violence; online harassment
• [15:06] Trump’s AI “sh*tting on protestors” video
• [21:35] On Christian nationalist worldview and “the enemy”
• [25:00] Fox News, George Soros funding conspiracy
• [29:12] Christian nationalism defined
• [43:52] Listing Trump’s authoritarian actions
• [53:00] Data: who supports Trump, white evangelical breakdown
• [61:20] Trump’s “I’m not going to heaven” quote and evangelical spin
• [76:32] GOP’s leaked Nazi group chat texts and responses
• [90:23] Tim’s emotional reflection on betrayal by evangelical community
• [93:12] “Weird Christian” segment comic relief

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Final Thoughts

Tim and April argue that the current moment—including overt authoritarianism, right-wing propaganda, and Christian nationalism—is a direct result of choices made by the white evangelical community, undergirded by decades of propaganda and normalization of antidemocratic ideas in both faith and politics. They challenge listeners, especially former and current Christians, to speak up, organize, and reclaim the faith for love, justice, and pluralism.

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End of Episode.

Transcript

[April Ajoy]

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[Tim Whitaker]

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[April Ajoy]

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[April Ajoy]

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[Tim Whitaker]

Oh you. You hit your mic and you muted yourself.

[April Ajoy]

Dang it. I'm April Ajoy.

[Tim Whitaker]

I'm Tim Whitaker. Welcome friends. Good to see all of you. Hey, really quick. Before we get started, let me just say we are trying some new audio techniques. So we are really looking for your feedback regarding audio levels if things are too hot or too soft. This is our first time with the back end technology that we're using so. So your feedback is really helpful. But yeah, great to be with all of you. And hello Lincoln Square folks. We took a week off. I was out of Town for an event I go to every year called Theology Beer Camp. Yes, it sounds unique because it is. I got to listen to some amazing scholars and hang out with some good friends I don't see super often. Sarah came with me. It was a really good time. So I had a great weekend.

[April Ajoy]

For those who don't know, Sarah is your wife?

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes, yes, Sarah is my wife. So just to be extra clear. Oh, boy, oh, boy, oh, boy. We got one heck of a show. We can't. Every time we skip a week, it's like, oh, right, that happened last week. But we still have to at least mention it.

[April Ajoy]

I know too many things. So many things. Which we're not a new show, so we won't be covering everything because that would be impossible. We are being overwhelmed with news, and I think a lot of that is by design. But, yes, we do have a full show. It will not be. It'll just gonna be more than an hour. I'm gonna guess it'll be more like an hour and a half, as usual.

[Tim Whitaker]

Well, if that's the case, we really mean an hour and 40. Right? Briefly, if you are watching on YouTube, thank you so much. Please make sure to like and subscribe. It gets this video sent out to more people. If you're watching on Substack and maybe you have not seen this show before, welcome. This show is produced by the New Evangelicals. It's an organization that I founded in 2020, and now I'm the creative director of. Led by Melinda Hale, our executive director. We are committed to helping you find a better path forward in your faith, to exposing Christian nationalism and to letting people, especially Christians out there, know that there is a path forward in the way of Jesus, rooted in love, justice, and inclusivity. We are now. We're a nonprofit. We have tons of resources. You'll hear more about them throughout the show. But I want to say hello to all of you out there on Lincoln Square Media. It's so good to be with you. We love going live with with them. They've been amazing. It's been great to go live on Substack every week for the past three weeks. So it's great to meet all of you and see you.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah, it is great to be here. I know you were at beer camp this past weekend. So you. I'm assuming you did not go to a no Kings protest while you were out there.

[Tim Whitaker]

I did not. I wanted to. It just did not happen.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah, no, that's totally fine. My mom and I did go, and so we're Going to talk about no Kings because that's a big story. Something that happened this, just this past weekend. But so my mom, who was, she was a pastor's wife, she was very conservative, comes from that same world as me. She went with me to our local no Kings protest here in Lexington and we had a great turnout. I don't know how many people were actually at the Lexington one, but it was, it was just. I always leave these with so much hope just because you get to be around so many like minded people. Because I think it's easy to feel isolated and you know, when you're just with your, you know, at home with your family, doing your work and you just hear bad news after bad news after bad news and then you get to be around thousands of other people that feel the same way as you. It's just, it's just very empowering. And we were there, it was 100% peaceful. They sang songs and we did chants and it was just, it was just a good time, you know, of people being out there using their, you know, free speech and protesting, which is a beautiful thing, I think.

[Tim Whitaker]

I have to say. I agree with you on the concept of being embodied with other people. That's one of the reasons why I go out to my event, Theology Beer Camp every year. It's not so much because of the speakers. I mean, of course they're great, but I get to see people that I haven't seen. And it's also nice to meet. In April, we've done this before. We'll do like an in person event or we will do a podcast right live and you meet people who are like, I listen to your show and it's so helpful. And it's like, thank you. Because on our end we're just talking to a camera and we're hoping that people out there are listening and find our work helpful. So it's good on this side too, to be out and just to be in community with actual people and not just names on the screen. So I'm glad that you went. And I mean, as you said, it was a very peaceful, overwhelming protest. I think over 7 million people protested. New York City Police, NYPD said that they had not one arrest when, you know, during the protest, which I think is just very telling compared to the rhetoric we hear from our Christian nationalist neighbors and how they love thinking things like this, as, you know, the radical Marxist and they're so violent and they hate America. Turns out not one arrest in New York City and the NYPD has no incentive to Lie about this for the record.

[April Ajoy]

So, yeah. And I don't, I don't hear. I, I don't think. I didn't hear of any violent thing that took place over the weekend, despite a lot of Republicans and MAGA and Fox News people.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah.

[April Ajoy]

Warning people to stay away. This is going to be violent. It's funny because after the fact, I saw a couple MAGA influencers on Twitter that went to no Kings protest. And like, ahead of it, they were like, pray for me, I'm going in. And they had video. There was like one girl who was like, I went with my Make America great again hat and no one messed with me. And she was saying it as like, they were too scared of mess with me. Like, no, this is. We just leave you alone.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right?

[April Ajoy]

Like, what is it? Are we violent or are we a bunch of old geriatric people? Like Fox News kept saying, like, pick a struggle.

[Tim Whitaker]

Well, and also, we just have to say that most people who are not in the Christian nationalist camp want their Christian nationalist neighbor to have the same rights that other people have. Right. Like, I want Christian nationalists to have the ability to peacefully protest and exercise their rights. I want them to have access to affordable healthcare. So, you know, it's one of those things where it's like, we just see the world incredibly differently. I want them to have benefits and access to freedom and constitutional protections. Right. They don't want that. For many of their neighbors. That's the biggest dichotomy. Right.

[April Ajoy]

And it also, my mom and I sign were very like, Christian in nature. My sign said Trump or Jesus can't serve? Both. My mom's sign said love thy neighbor. And on the back was, what you do to least of these, you do to me. Like Jesus. And when I posted that, I went almost. I went like, borderline. It started getting some traction on Twitter and the amount of comments that we got that were just completely ignoring the fact that we were holding very Christian signs. They were like, you two worship Satan. Bunch of dumb sluts. Where's a father? There's no dad involved. Like, the fan fiction that they were writing for us is just wild because they can't accept the fact that some people used to be Republican, are still Christian. Read the teachings of Jesus objectively and realize you cannot follow the teachings of Jesus while supporting the MAGA movement 100%. But they can't. They can't take. That's not it. They've got to be antifa. They've got to be paid by George Soros. They've got to Be sluts. I don't know what that has to do with wanting free health, you know, health care for all, and wanting you.

[Tim Whitaker]

You don't see the direct connection between, between the two? How do you not?

[April Ajoy]

April, my favorite comment on this is on me and my mom. My mom was a pastor's wife. Okay. She was married to my dad. My dad died of cancer in 2011. She's been a widow ever since. Someone said this is. This made me laugh. We were just a couple of dumb sluts who watch PBS all day. It was just, it was fun times.

[Tim Whitaker]

You know, I, I. You and I talk often offline. It is just an unbelievable reality that we're living in, that the people who raised us in the faith are the ones who are shocked that we're quoting scripture in justification for our views. Right? Love your neighbor as yourself is not a controversial statement. I don't want my children to be zip tied and separated from me or my wife. I don't want my neighbor or their children to be zip tied and separated from their families. Like, this is, this is such an uncontroversial position as a Christian. I mean, it is like the lowest bar possible, right? Love your neighbor as yourself. And you hold the sign up and people like call you terrible names and you're like, wait, well, who's, who's really the Christian here then, right? Like who's, who's the one embodying the Christian tradition that is centered on love, justice and inclusion? It is wild that we are here. I mean, I say it all the time, but it is wild that we are here. Wow. Wow, wow, wow.

[April Ajoy]

It is something for sure.

[Tim Whitaker]

We got a few super chats. Yeah, look at us totally locked in here. So by the way, if you're watching On Lincoln Square on substack on YouTube, one of our things that we do is we do our best to read every super chat that comes in. Because super chats and donations support the show and make this work possible as a nonprofit. The New Evangelicals is totally donor funded, which allows us to make all of our content and access to our resources completely paywall free, including this show. So there's no Patreon account, there's no subscriber, only episodes that you get if you pay us money. Instead, we rely on super chats and donations. So if you want to support the work that we do, thenewevangelicals.com support is a great way to do that. Or you can give us a Super chat on YouTube and we can read it like Elsa who says, why Was I only like number 55? I'm not sure that Miss something?

[April Ajoy]

Oh, I think she's saying that more people need to like the show on YouTube.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes. Please give this video more likes. I appreciate that. It really helps. And then Dulc Dogan, a great name. I never thought shit show would be a literal description of this administration. Also, would love to see a collab with the guys from this fire podcast. I'm not sure who they are. Do you know who they are?

[April Ajoy]

This, I'm not sure, but look into that. This is a great segue.

[Tim Whitaker]

I know. I got teed up.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah. So obviously maga, Donald Trump, all these people, they were trying to act like no Kings was a total failure. It was stupid. It was, as Fox News would say, like just a bunch of old people, which I don't understand the slander against olderly, like, elderly people. Like they were out there exercising the right. And also that's the main demographic of Fox News. So.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right.

[April Ajoy]

Interesting thing to do, but.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right. So interesting.

[April Ajoy]

Donald Trump. So there is a guy, he is a progressive influencer. His name is Harry. I don't know. How do you say his last name? Is it Sison?

[Tim Whitaker]

Whatever you say will be wrong.

[April Ajoy]

Just, just, just know that I know this guy. He posted this picture from the no Kings protest. So this is the real picture that you see here?

[Tim Whitaker]

Yep.

[April Ajoy]

Donald Trump took this picture, put it into AI or. I don't know if it was actually him or someone.

[Tim Whitaker]

He reposted an AI video?

[April Ajoy]

Yeah, he reposted an AI video.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah. Not sure who made it, but either way, and I want to emphasize this point, the sitting President of the United States of America, meaning the person who's supposed to represent the American people, like all of them. Right. The man who has said in some of his initial speeches that I will be a president for all Americans. He reposted this video. Okay.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah. So we're just going to watch it. We're going to watch it without the sound. Because he was playing. Was it Danger Zone?

[Tim Whitaker]

It's a song that will get flagged by YouTube. Then we'll get a copyright strike. It's a whole thing. So this is without the sound. I'm sorry, podcast listeners, but I'm sure you've seen this video.

[April Ajoy]

You can just narrate it for the podcast. Okay, so Donald Trump with the crown on in a fighter jet. He's flying over the protest and dropping literal poop on their heads.

[Tim Whitaker]

He's literally shitting on American citizens exercising their First Amendment rights. Oh.

[April Ajoy]

And I've seen A lot of defense of this from MAGA that were like, well, he's just trolling. He's just having fun. He's just joking. Like, you know, I prefer my presidents to not be trolls.

[Tim Whitaker]

This is the, the, the hiding behind humor trope is very intentional because it allows people to get away with things that would never be acceptable, quote unquote. So this is how they just, this is how they justify it, right? Oh, we're just trolling. We're just fooling around. No, you're not. You're not fooling around. And by the way, the, the, the, the first person that gets shit dumped on them is Harry. Like that the President reposted the AI video where, where a well known liberal influencer gets dumped on by the President. Does that sound like a president for all Americans? And this goes back to what we talk about, right, April, about like Christian nationalism and how they view true Americans and how true Americans aren't ones that are actual citizens. Which is why we completely reject the notion that immigration is about just come here the right way. Come here illegally. No, it's not about that. Because once you are declared the enemy by Christian nationalists and the MAGA machine, doesn't matter your legal standing in America. The sitting president will post a video of him with a crown on, by the way, taking a dump on actual protesters who are American citizens. So it's not about that. It's not about a legal status. It's about an ideology. And if you embody it.

[April Ajoy]

And can you just imagine if Barack Obama or Joe Biden had posted a similar picture of him AI dropping poop on Republicans that were out there protesting like January6. Let's just say Joe Biden posted an AI video of him dumping poop on January Sixers. Like they would have lost their minds.

[Tim Whitaker]

April, this is the crowd that made that got upset because President Obama wore a tan suit one time. Do you remember the Sean Hannity segment when they went after Obama because he asked for Gray Poupon on his burger? I'm not kidding. You people can Google it. You can look it up. That's a real thing. They were. They are the most. They are the pettiest people on the face of the planet. Making mountains out of molehills all freaking day. All day. But when their dude does some of the most obscene stuff you've ever seen from a president, suddenly it's hilarious. Oh, it's not a big deal. It's funny. Ha ha ha. Yeah, they do deserve that. It is so clear as day how one sided in not good faith this side of the political world is. And also how, how much they move the overturn, Overton window of like, what's acceptable. Right. Trump, in less than a decade, has completely rewritten what is acceptable in politics, whether it's how much. Remember when the controversy was. He just tweets a lot. Wow. For a president, he's sure on his phone a lot. That's not even a thing anymore. Even though he's still doing it. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's disappointing to say the least. And it's also horrifying to see how far we've come in such a short amount of time. It's crazy. In the name of God, by the way.

[April Ajoy]

Oh, yeah, this is not the first time that Trump has trolled that he's a king too. Back in February, he posted that fake Time magazine cover of him. It said, long live the king and he's wearing a crown.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right.

[April Ajoy]

Like, it's just. And then these are the same people too, that claimed Biden and Obama were like, authoritarian and that they were evil, trying to take over the country. Like, I feel like every accusation is a confession. Pretty much what they accuse the left of being, they are actually doing. And, and being. Yes, like, and. And they're just disingenuous. Like the way that there was a video of Caroline Levitt being interviewed last week where she said that the Democrat constituents are all Ms. 13, violent criminals and ISIS. Like, she depicted all Democrats, anyone who votes Democrat as violent and that we've seen that consistently at Charlie Kirk's memorial. They painted anyone that was not them as violent, as evil as they did this. They need to be stopped. And you just saw 7 million-plus people show up to a no Kings rally. Completely, completely contradicts what they say about the other side.

[Tim Whitaker]

This is why you and I are trying to honestly, full transparency. This is part of why we were so excited to work with Lincoln Square, because we've been saying this for a long time, trying to reach a broader audience with this message. Christian nationalists, which, by the way, are overwhelmingly represented in the MAGA movement, are not here for good faith, anything. They're not here to work together. They're not here to compromise. They're not here to find common ground with liberals or Democrats to find solutions. They are not here for that. So the hypocrisy is part of it. It is. They do not give a flying. You know what, that they are hypocritical. They don't care. And that's what's so frustrating, Right? Because, April, you and I were taught as former conservative evangelicals who grew up deeply embedded in this movement, although we were on kind of different sides of the track, so to speak. Right? But we were taught the importance of truth and the importance of integrity and standing on principle and standing on morals and seeing your neighbor as someone loved by God. I mean, I was taught the song Jesus Loves the Little Children of the World, and now I'm fighting with my Sunday school teachers on Facebook that bombing kids in Gaza is wrong. Right. So, like, the hypocrisy, it's just. It's part and parcel of what we're dealing with. And no matter how much we mention it, it's gonna fall on deaf ears because they do not care that they're hypocritical, because you don't compromise with the enemy. You don't compromise with demons. You don't compromise with the side of Satan, who is sacrificing, you know, children on the altar of abortion, as they would say. So for them, the hypocrisy, it does not matter. And that's one thing I want this audience to understand. You might be questioning yourself. I don't get it. How does this logic work? That's how it works. They don't give a shit because for them, people like you or the liberals or whoever else, the immigrant, the queer person, the bipoc folk, you know, who is teaching true American history, they are on the side of Satan. And the sooner we realize that and that they really believe it, the sooner we understand that we have to find a different way to fight this.

[April Ajoy]

I know. Well, I do think there are some people that are starting to recognize it. I've seen a handful. Every week, I see a handful of people that are like, I voted for Trump. I was wrong, and I'm sorry. So that is good news. And I will say to those people, as frustrating as it is right, you want to shake them and be like, where were you when we were warning of these exact things happening?

[Tim Whitaker]

Right.

[April Ajoy]

I understand that frustration, but we do want people to change, so I'm not. I personally am not going to be demonizing people that are waking up, you know, better late than never. Yep, that's what I'm going to say.

[Tim Whitaker]

I love the good, bad cop dynamic we have, April. It's great, you know.

[April Ajoy]

Hey, everyone, Melinda Hale here, executive director.

[Tim Whitaker]

Of the New Evangelicals.

[April Ajoy]

Thanks for listening to our podcast.

[Tim Whitaker]

I just wanted to take a minute to personally invite you to be a part of our community. At tne, we're creating space for people of faith who care about justice, compassion.

[April Ajoy]

And living out the teachings of Jesus.

[Tim Whitaker]

In real, tangible ways. As a nonprofit organization, not only do we offer thought provoking podcasts, but on our new app and online platform, TNE Connect, we offer free educational resources, additional content and a space to connect with like minded people for meaningful conversations and encouragement. So if what we're doing has been helpful to you, if you've learned something, felt, seen or been challenged to grow, head over to theneweevangelicals.com to join TNE Connect or make a donation. Your support means the world to us. Thanks for being a part of the movement.

[April Ajoy]

So we do have some videos we wanted to play there. It's just funny to see the, the, the things that MAGA has come up with to try to just be really dismissive of the millions of people that have been exercising their right to protest Donald Trump. Like they, they, they claim that, oh, everyone loves Trump. He's doing such a great job. So here is who is this? Who's talking here?

[Tim Whitaker]

This is someone on Fox News. They're just talking about the no Kings protest. And it's, this is just a very telling clip I think that we wanted to play. But before we do that, can we just read a few super chats briefly? Do you mind? We got a few that came in just really quick. So Joseph Compton, thank you so much for the super chat. Watching PBS is dumb now can confirm true super chat from Cali Joy. Thank you so much. Means the world. Shara Sexy. Y' all should do an old school telethon with guests and drawings and stuff. All I'll say is stay tuned. That's all I'll say about that. Jack Cole, thank you for the super chat. And then Stevie Clown Non Kings proves we really do outnumber maga. That part is true numerically. And we're going to get to some data later on that I that is fresh, hot off the press. That I think will be very telling. Okay, let's play this video and see what their critique of the no Kings protest was. Here we go.

[April Ajoy]

I think this is a Republican senator on Fox News.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes, thank you, Harris.

[April Ajoy]

I think it is extremely important that we look at who is funding these protests. We have to get to the bottom of this. It is a much larger organization. It could be the usual suspect, of course, George Soros.

[Tim Whitaker]

But what we have seen in the past, of course, is threat to local governments and property. And so we do need to make.

[April Ajoy]

Sure that these are safe protests. And I would There you go.

[Tim Whitaker]

That's the clip that you put. They were.

[April Ajoy]

So now they're saying who's. Who's funding these protests, all relative to George Soros.

[Tim Whitaker]

They hate him.

[April Ajoy]

I protest Donald Trump for free.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah. Wait, you. You didn't get some big fat George Soros paycheck?

[April Ajoy]

No. You know what? These. These. These talking points are so tired. Back in 2020, I went, like, night after night for, like, all summer, multiple nights a week for the whole summer of 2020 to Black lives Matter protests. We were trying to protest the local Confederate statute. Doesn't matter. We were 100% peaceful. We were quiet. We did silent demonstrations. We. Every hour at the top of the hour, we kneeled and prayed in silence. That's what we did. The local. Local. We had current, like, elected officials and former officials that would, like, write in the local paper that we were being funded by George Soros, that we were being bused in from out of town, that we were antifa. That we were violent and wanted to kill you and your dog. They were making up so much crap about us. None of it. None of it was true. I'm still waiting on that George Soros check.

[Tim Whitaker]

Look, let me be very transparent with the audience. If we had George Soros money behind the new evangelicals, we'd be telling you all about it happily. Like, man, my man George just funded us. Isn't that great? Like, I do not care. It also, it is worth pointing out, and we can't go into too many details here. George Soros is Jewish. I'll just leave that there. But there is a reason why he's become this, like, magnetic boogeyman of a figure for the right to pick up on for many, many reasons. And it is. It's kind of comical. Like, I wish George Soros would pay us money. I. That would be great, because then we wouldn't be begging for super chats on YouTube. You know, that'd be great.

[April Ajoy]

You wouldn't. You wouldn't have just had to stop three times to see if there was an echo on a video.

[Tim Whitaker]

Exactly. We probably. Probably be in person, have a real studio together. Like, I will tell you, if we get funding from George Soros, I promise we will be shouted from the rooftops.

[April Ajoy]

Oh, my gosh.

[Tim Whitaker]

Let's watch one more clip.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah, yeah. We've got another video from Texas Republican Chip Roll.

[Tim Whitaker]

This one did me in. Like, this is your brain on. On talk radio your whole life. I mean, again, don't forget, friends, 7 million people from all walks of life protesting across the nation. Even internationally, in South Korea, they protested. I shared a video of it on my Tim Whitaker Speaks Instagram account. So an overwhelmingly peaceful. As far as I know, no major violence at all, no looting, nothing like that. Okay.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah. This is a US Congressman in Texas.

[Tim Whitaker]

Here we go. With Mike Johnson to his right. Okay, here we go. Truth is, the Marxists, the radicals and the Islamists the Democratic Party promoted this weekend, they cannot handle the truth. The truth is that there is a king, and that king is Jesus. And the President has been willing to say it, his administration has been willing to say it, and Charlie Kirk was willing to say it, and he got killed for it. Wow.

[April Ajoy]

That is not.

[Tim Whitaker]

There's a lot to unpack there.

[April Ajoy]

I know. Where does one even begin? I would say he's not the only person from the more Christian nationalist sect of the MAGA movement, which is. I mean, it's a lot of them, but there are some people in MAGA that are not Christians, but they're rare. But he's not the only one that is saying the no Kings protest was a protest against Jesus because Jesus is a king. And if you're protest like no Christian could be against kings because Jesus is a king. Like, there was also Virgil Walker.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, I got that one here. Where is it? Is it. No, not that one. That's Joel Berry. Oh, I have two Joel. I have three Jewel berries. Okay, hold on. I have it here.

[April Ajoy]

I'll pull up three Jewelberries.

[Tim Whitaker]

My programming. I did a bad job today. I was, you know, we started late for a reason. I was kind of all over the place.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah, yeah, no, it's. It's been a lot. If you don't know Walker, he is president. Vice president of Ministry Release Relations. He's a pretty big voice in Christian maga.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, he leans more like the. Without getting in the weeds. He lean. He leans more in, like, the reformed camps. Like, if you know John MacArthur. He's more like in that circle of Christian thinking. Very Christian nationalists will work with, you know, broad coalitions. But he's not in the charismatic side. That's what you need to know. Right.

[April Ajoy]

And I don't know, would he. Is he one that would be openly Christian nationalist?

[Tim Whitaker]

I. I don't know if he would be openly. But he would definitely defend the position, from what I can tell. I mean, he. He was interviewed by Turning Point Faith at Turning Point USA's America Fest. I watched it happen live because I was there. So he has no problem at least putting his body in those spaces in support.

[April Ajoy]

Right. And for those who Might be new. Let me just do a quick, like just brief overview of when we talk what we're, what we mean when we say Christian nationalist. So it's basically a conflation of political ideology with your faith where basically, you know, Charlie Kirk's memorial is a great example of Christian nationalism that, you know, pastors that come up and say we here we stand on quote unquote, biblical truth. But it just happens that that biblical truth are conservative policies and positions. Most people who are Christian nationalists today would not say they're Christian nationalists. They think they're just being good Christians, love God, love people, exclusions apply and vote Republican. So. But there are also people that are more extreme, that are openly Christian nationalists, that want to make America a Christian nation by force via laws. And then you have more nominal Christian nationalists that support those things but may not be as overt about it.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, the term is adherence of Christian nationalism and sympathizers. That's how Prri breaks it down. April, did you write a book about this? It sounds like you're pretty knowledgeable.

[April Ajoy]

I actually did, yeah.

[Tim Whitaker]

No, you did not.

[April Ajoy]

It's called Star Spangled Jesus. I grew up very Christian nationalist, but I would have fallen in the camp that we just thought we were being good Christians. But anyway, so my book, it goes into the details of what it's like, the ideology appeal back of the curtain of what you think and why you can be so confident that you're on the right side despite holding a lot of cognitive dissonance. So yeah, you can get that star spindle Jesus out everywhere.

[Tim Whitaker]

Love that. And if you're looking for the academic side of that conversation, the New Evangelicals podcast, which, which I host, has interviewed almost every major scholar on this topic in depth. Many of the episodes are now coming out on our TNpodcast YouTube channel. It's an exclusive podcast channel just for all of our interviews. So again, we, this, we're drawing from a very deep well of research and data to kind of give you this information. And I said it just so you know that, that we are credible people. Like, obviously we're going to, we're going to make mistakes, we're going to say the wrong things at times, but we are deeply embedded in the conversations and learning from the people who are deeply studying these things and giving us the nuanced perspectives of the both and Right. Because we don't want to say all Christians are Christian nationalists. That's just not true. It's more complicated than that. And also we know that we're on a YouTube channel, and we're on a sub stack, and we're trying to make this as succinct as possible while giving you guys credible information. So anyway, that's kind of. That's the back end to this. But can I just make one point about this guy's video before we get back to.

[April Ajoy]

We haven't even read it yet, so we should read it.

[Tim Whitaker]

Well, no, not, not, not. Virgil. We'll get to him in a second. I've got the Chip, Roy, because he says something here. It's only 19 seconds. Let me play it one more time and just make two points, then we can move on. Truth is, the Marxists, the radicals, and the Islamist the Democratic Party promoted this weekend. Okay, let's stop right there. Handle the truth. I don't know what just happened. Everything's. There is a king, and that king is Jesus. Okay, so just a couple of things right here. I want to mention. Number one, and someone made this point in the chat. Notice how it's not radical Islamists anymore. Now it's just Islamists. Remember 9, 11, the radical extreme, you know, Muslims? That was just Islam. And by the way, this is such an exhaustive, exhausted trope, right? That, that, that, that you have to worry about the Islamists in America or the Muslims in America and not the people who actually stormed the Capitol building. Muslims represent between 1 and a half to 2% of the American population. They have almost no representation in government at all. They did not try and storm the Capitol Building on January six. Their president in chief is not. Is not tying children up in zip ties and throwing their parents in concentration camps. So, like, let's just stop with this nonsense, okay? That, that's, that's number one. It's. It's so bad. Faith is so Islamophobic that it's. It's almost absurd. The other thing I want to point out is that he says this here. The truth is that there is a king and that king is Jesus. Okay, great. Agreed. Okay, let's just say it's Christians. We agree with that. Which only makes Trump wearing a crown, dumping shit on protesters all the more horrific, right? Because Trump is saying that he's king. So me and Chip actually agree there is no king, but King Jesus. As a Christian, I believe that. Now, that doesn't mean I think that we should rule over Americans or anything or anything like that, just to be clear. But I agree with Chip, which is why people protest it at the. No kings, right? Because guess what? Jesus is not currently here on Earth. He can't find the guy. Right. He's not embodied anywhere currently on Earth. So when you have someone like Trump say, I'm your king, and then the Christians who insist there's no king but Christ go, hey, we kind of like that. That's why we protested. You. I just need to point that out. And the last piece of this, of this is when he says this, and the President has been willing to say it, his administration has been willing to say it, and Charlie Kirk was willing to say it, and he got killed for it. Okay? That last piece. This is how mythology and propaganda works. Because the truth is that Charlie Kirk's last words were talking about transgender people and mass shootings. He was on the path to reinforcing both of those points. And he was going to blame gangs as being responsible for the amount of mass shootings. He was not preaching any kind of gospel message. Okay. When he was killed. And by the way, we stand against that violence. We were very clear about this so many times. And we know as of now that the person who shot him was not motivated because he hated Christianity or hated the fact that Charlie Kirk was a Christian nationalist. As of right now, we have no evidence of that. So this. This idea that he was killed because he believed Christ was king is just flat out false.

[April Ajoy]

And we.

[Tim Whitaker]

The reason why I'm taking time to spell this out is, is because once we give these people an inch and concede that point, it then becomes the new truth of what actually happened. And we have to be clear of what actually happened. He did not die because he said Christ was king. He died for reasons that we largely do not know. Besides, this person did not like him.

[April Ajoy]

Agreed. There's zero evidence to support that he died because he was a Christian. And here's the thing. Most people that knew Charlie Kirk, he was not. He was mostly known for being a political commentator. He was not known for loving his neighbor and taking care of the poor, the widow, the orphan, which, you know, Jesus said, they will know you're my disciples by how you love one another. And Charlie Kirk's Persona was not. He. His main thing was not loving one another. Just. Just saying that. But also, it is so disingenuous of how they are equating like, well, there's no king, but King Jesus. So this whole thing is anti God. And we'll get to Virgil Walker's post, too. Yeah, because like, they. They know. They know that they're stretching with that. No one is out there actually protesting Jesus. If we were protesting Jesus, I wouldn't have Been there.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right? You wouldn't have been quoting him as proof of your protest. Love your neighbor Jesus. They're protesting Jesus. What? I'm quoting him as proof of my protest.

[April Ajoy]

Right. It is, it's like the ultimate Jesus juke though, right? It's, it's the same thing of like when you, when you say something or you support someone that is really harmful or, or if you are being misogynistic or you're being homophobic or whatever and then you get pushed back for that. The, it's the, oh, you're just attacking me because I'm standing up for my faith. Like Forest Frake, he posted a video shortly after Charlie Kirk was murdered which we've condemned, saying like, oh, Charlie Kirk was such a man of faith. He was a Christian martyr and like made this whole like tribute to the goodness and faithfulness of Charlie Kirk and lost like 30,000 followers. And then if you don't know, Forest Frank, he's like a really well known Christian singer, was like, how dare you. I lost followers for just saying Jesus is king. It's like that's not why you lost followers. You are a Christian artist who's been saying Jesus is king for years. Like, it's the way that they equate their, the bigotry with their Christian faith. It's, it's how they skirt accountability all the time. They play the Christian persecution card and they're able to just say, oh well, you just don't like me because I'm a Christian. And they use the verse in the Bible where Jesus says they will hate you like they hated me. And blessed are the persecuted and they wear it like a badge of honor. But they are not being, quote unquote, persecuted for their faith. They're being disliked and held accountable because they are actively harming people.

[Tim Whitaker]

I, they're all. Everyone's applauding. I will just represent that to you. Tada. No, you're exactly correct. You're exactly right. And also like you said, they really read into things in the worst way possible and kind of rewrite their meaning behind it. Which I think brings us to this point. Right by Virgil Walker. That's the reformed bro that we were just talking about a second ago. So Virgil, Virgil said this, he said this is on Twitter. They're not protesting Trump, they're protesting christ. Oh my gosh, 2,600 rallies chanting no kings. But what they really mean is no God. They don't hate kings, they just want the throne. Now this is actually a textbook example of how evangelicals intentionally misrepresent reality. Because the 7 million people were protesting Trump, many of them were Christians with Christian Bible verses and Christian slogans and the teachings of Jesus on their cardboard signs in justification of their protest. Right, but for Virgil and the Christian nationalist machine. No, no, no. If you protest Trump, you're protesting Christ. See how Virgil tells on himself here, right? What he's saying is that if you don't stand for Trump, you don't stand for Christ. Now, of course, that is factually absurd, because there's a reason why these dudes do not quote the teachings of Jesus almost ever, ever in their sermons. Yeah, you're never going to hear. Be like. You're never going to hear someone be like, look, we got to support Trump ICE raids that are destroying families. You know why? Because Jesus says to welcome the stranger. That's exactly why we have to do this. You know, because Jesus says that. That what you do to the least of these, you do unto me. And that's exactly why we have to keep throwing them in concentration camps and zip tying children and calling them the poison to the blood of American society. Right. And lying about them like they did with Abrego Garcia. Which we'll get into. Because Jesus says to welcome the stranger. Yeah, it doesn't work. You can't read the red letters of Jesus and then come away thinking Trump is our guy. It is impossible. No, it is impossible to do that.

[April Ajoy]

Which is exactly why my protest sign says Trump or Jesus.

[Tim Whitaker]

You can't pull it back up for. Just in case people missed it earlier. Where's your. There it is. There you go.

[April Ajoy]

If you go, please take my sign if you want to make this sign royalty free, baby. Yeah. Trump or Jesus cancer? Both. I will say. It is so funny to me how mad. Because I would stand on the side of the road, not even just at no Kings. I've gone to several protests this year. How mad people get at this sign. I've been flipped off for this sign, which to me, I think is like, obviously. Okay, just kind of proving the point.

[Tim Whitaker]

Well, also, that means that you're. You're a Christian martyr as well, because you've been persecuted for your faith. April, Congratulations.

[April Ajoy]

Honestly, though, Okay, I. I don't. I would not say that I have been persecuted, although I have got death threats from Christian nationalist people for various things. But it is interesting to me that I was taught my entire life that I would be persecuted for my faith in America. And it is not lost on me, the irony that I actually do get a lot of hate for my faith now, but it's from other Christians. It's from conservative Christians, from white evangelicals. I've never had more hate in my life y than when I stood up against Republicans because they are not following the teachings of Jesus, but they claim to be.

[Tim Whitaker]

I mean, same. I got kicked out of my church when I started the New Evangelicals. You know, like, who would have thought saying, maybe we should be more inclusive and loving. We'll get you to a point where your pastor goes, hey, man, I, you know, can't have you on the stage drumming as a volunteer and saying what you're saying online because it goes against the teachings of the church. So you got to pick.

[April Ajoy]

Okay. There was an and before. So we're so behind.

[Tim Whitaker]

We're so behind.

[April Ajoy]

Of course we are. We were a little ambitious on what we were wanting to cover today, which is a lot. Okay, so I want to point out two things. Two things that I. A couple things that I saw and push back to no Kings. One, I saw a lot of people are like, why are they protesting no Kings? Trump's not a king. If Trump was a king, all of y' all would be beheaded. People said that to me, like, which one? Literally, there's a king of England. There were also no Kings protests happening in England. None of them were beheaded. But two, it is disingenuous. Like, they know. We obviously know that Trump is not currently a king, but he is doing authoritarian things that, if continued to go unchecked, would lead to him being an authoritarian king or dictator.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right.

[April Ajoy]

So it's just disingenuous for them to be like, oh, troops are king. Okay, here are some examples. And this is not by any means the full list.

[Tim Whitaker]

Right.

[April Ajoy]

Okay.

[Tim Whitaker]

It's not exhausting.

[April Ajoy]

All some things. Some. A list of things that the no Kings protests were protesting. You know, it's like, if not king, why king shaped. So here's some things that Donald Trump has done this term that are authoritarian, AKA why the no Kings protest.

[Tim Whitaker]

Can we just rephrase that and say in his first eight months into the presidency, it's not even a year yet.

[April Ajoy]

Not even. You're right. Right. Just to date. Okay. Not even a year. How about deploying the military on United States soil against governor's wills? Like, going into states against those leaders will. Okay, that's authoritarian. The tariffs, the fact that he's been bypassing Congress. Congress to enact all of these tariffs that are harming Americans. Okay, looking. How about investigations of his opponents? Right. Going after James Comey and Letitia James and the Obama administration because he's mad. He's got a personal vendetta of all the times that he was prosecuted for actual crimes. Okay. He is now making stuff up to go after his political opponents. Okay. That is something a dictator does. All right, how about this? The fact that he has fired people. So, like for instance, the. He is now putting MAGA and Heritage foundation loyalists in the Bureau of Labor Statistics. He fired the former head of the. Of that bureau of BLS because she released factual but weak jobs report. Fired her. That says that sets a precedent of like. No, we. You have to only report good news to Donald Trump. It doesn't matter if it's facts. We only want good things, even if it's wrong. Okay, so the firing and the firing of people doing their job to hire loyalists, that would just be. Yes, people. That's something a king would do. How about the coercion of media, universities and law firms? The fact that in just universities alone, Donald Trump is withholding funding to colleges that are teaching certain things that follow dei, which that isn't. That's a whole other rant. The. The war against dei, which is not a problem. The rolling back of civil rights, not to mention just going after free speech. Going after free speech. And the Pentagon. The Pentagon is now only allowing certain journalists in the Pentagon because the actual journalists, including, including Fox, said that we're going to have to report the facts. And the Pentagon said, no, we only want you to report what we tell you to report. So now only certain people are allowed there. That is something a dictator would do. How about skirting due process and the rule of law on these mass deportations? And we got a little update here. Right? This is where we're going to put a little. We're going to do a little sidebar.

[Tim Whitaker]

Great.

[April Ajoy]

Because Kilmar Abrego Garcia was an. Is an example of skirting that due process, claiming someone was violent, sending him to a foreign prison for no reason that they even admitted was administrative error. And now it's just come out. A whistleblower on that whole case has come out and said this. You want to do. You want to tee this up?

[Tim Whitaker]

I got you covered. Listen to this, friends. This Salvadoran man, Kilmar Abrego Garcia, had been deported by mistake. Normally, people deported in error are returned, but instead, Ruvaney says that in a phone call from a superior, he was ordered to argue against Abrego Garcia's return by telling a judge that Abrego Garcia was an Ms. 13 gang member and a terrorist. And I respond up to up the chain of command. No way. That is not correct. That is not factually correct. It is not legally correct. That is. That is a lie. And I. I cannot sign my name to that briefing. That is a lie. You're not saying Abrego Garcia is a choir boy. You're just saying that no one had managed to prove that he was a terrorist. Here's the really important thing here. Whether Mr. Abrego Garcia is or isn't a member of Ms. 13 or a terrorist or anything else is beside the point. What matters here is that they did everything they did to him in violation of his due process rights. What's to stop them if they decide they don't like you anymore to say you're a criminal, you're a member of Ms. 13, you're a terrorist. What's to stop them from sending in some DOJ attorney at the direction of DOJ leadership to delay, to filibuster, and if necessary, to lie? And now that's you gone and your liberty changed. After refusing to sign the brief that called Abrego Garcia a terrorist, Rouvainy was fired. Remember?

[April Ajoy]

King would do.

[Tim Whitaker]

Remember. I need. I need to say this. A lot of right wing media people. Ali Stuckey, there was. There's an account called A girl named Blake or the girl named Blake. Charlie Kirk. Yes. Kilmore Albergo Garcia's knuckles have MS.13 gang tattoos like Charlie. And if you go through Charlie's old tweets and type in MS.13, it's. He's MS.13, he's a terrorist, et cetera. They're just repeating. They're repeating the regime's lies that we know now are lies. And that. That's the point, by the way. They know that we can't keep up with truth telling as fast as they can tell the lies. So by the time we have actual evidence that they lied, he's old news. And now we're gonna. Now we're talking about Nazi group chats and other shit. Right? So that's part of the strategy too, is that the truth doesn't matter because once you find out about it, they move on to something else. Okay, continue on April.

[April Ajoy]

I have more.

[Tim Whitaker]

I know you do. You got all the receipts.

[April Ajoy]

How about the DOJ quietly removed the study on their website that showed how right wing violence far outpaces left wing violence?

[Tim Whitaker]

Yep.

[April Ajoy]

Just deleted it. Right. So you're now removing history. Remember Doge? Remember all those cuts? That was a thing. Remember Donald Trump defied court orders, literally. Courts would say, you can't do that. And Trump was like, I'm gonna do it anyway. Still doing that, by the way, something a king would do. How about the fact that he just posts king things, right? He posts himself as a king. Trolling or not, he still does it. He pardoned, you know, we know how. We mentioned how he went after his opponents. He also pardoned every single person that was convicted in the insurrection on January 6th. Just a blanket pardon.

[Tim Whitaker]

By the way, you do know that one of them got rearrested for threatening to kill Hakeem Jeffries in a credible way. Did you hear that story? One of the January 6th insurrectionists that Trump pardoned is back behind bars for threatening to kill Hakeem Jeffries. Thank you, Trump.

[April Ajoy]

Okay. And then a couple others. And there's more, but I'm not going to. I didn't write down everything because we would be here all day. The fact that he's demonized all enemies, which we touched on earlier, that is something an authoritarian do. If you listen to the words that Donald Trump and people in this administration say, it is very similar to things that other dictators have said, including Adolf Hitler, and then also arresting protesters without due process. And how about. Oh, one more. Remember when Thomas Massie was getting signatures for that discharge petition to release the Epstein files? Remember those White House officials said, if you sign that petition, you. It will be considered a, quote, hostile act to the Trump administration. How about the fact that Mike Johnson refused to swear in the representative from Arizona because she would have been the deciding vote to release Epstein files? And of course, now obviously, we're in a shutdown, and who knows how long that's going to take anyway? So those are just. Those are just a few.

[Tim Whitaker]

You didn't even mention the White House ballroom that Trump is currently working on.

[April Ajoy]

You know what? Yeah, I know about.

[Tim Whitaker]

We could. We. We really could just spend two hours or more just reading a list. And you know what the worst part is? Maga, Christians, Christian nationalists, a lot of our people that we grew up listening to or being taught by will be like, man, it's. That's not really true. Now you're exaggerating now. That's not really king life. Right? They will just excuse it away. Which leads us into the nerdy part of our. Of our show, which I guess I'm going to monologue now in the nerdy way. You're getting all the. I love April's rants. April's rants are so great. Now you're going to get a lot of the snoring emojis. Like, Tim, this is so boring. But I think it is really important because I. We want people to know that we really ground our perspectives in data. Okay. So when we talk about this stuff, we're not just making it up. We're not just, oh, we're mad at.

[April Ajoy]

At.

[Tim Whitaker]

At. At our old churches. We have been reading the studies, we've been talking to people. So there's a group called prri, Public Religion Research Institute. They are one of the premier data firms tracking how Christian nationalism is defined, who believes it and the outcomes of those things. Okay. They just released a new study that I think is really important for you all to understand and hopefully for some of our detractors out there will help them at least realize why you and I are so passionate and call out white evangelicals in particular. Okay, so I'm going to read. There are the. The. The study is huge. It's very long. I'm going to pick out three, like, headlines in their executive summary and kind of summarize their findings. Just so you all know the data behind some of this stuff, because I'm sure a lot of you are thinking, who supports this? Like, who's behind these ICE raids and that cuts them to healthcare, all this stuff. Okay, There is some data. So the first thing I wanna say is they talked about how a lot of Americans view cuts to federal agencies are viewed as excessive by most Americans. Half of Americans, 50%, believe closing or drastically shrinking major federal agencies have gone too far, while 30% say it's about right and 16% say it hasn't gone far enough. The majority of Democrats, 85%, and independents, 57%, think these cuts have gone too far, compared to just 16% of Republicans. So this is a very partisan issue. Most religious groups share that concern except white Christian groups and Hispanic Protestants. We'll get more into that in a second. Majorities of black Protestants, Hispanic Catholics, Jewish Americans, unaffiliated. Unaffiliated Americans and other Christians say the cuts are excessive. Only 25% of white evangelical Protestants agree. American Christian nationalists, 81% of rejecters, and 50% of skeptics say the cuts have gone too far, compared with just 31% of sympathizers and adherents. So essentially what that's saying is that people who tend to reject or be skeptical of Christian nationalism agree that these cuts that are hurting Americans have gone too far. But if you're a Christian nationalist, only about 30%, give or take, believe that they've gone too far. And if you're In a white evangelical Protestant, you are unlikely to agree that the cuts have gone too far. Only essentially one in four. Okay, that's one piece. Now here's the second piece. And this is where I think the racial lines show the cracks. Most Americans say that ICE funding increases have gone too far. A narrow majority of Americans, this actually was pretty surprising to me. 52% believe the recent increase in funding for ice to speed up immigration arrest and deportations has gone too far. One third say it's about right, and only 12% say it hasn't gone far enough. The partisan divide is stark. 85% of Democrats and 59% of independents say the funding has gone too far, compared to just 15% of Republicans. Majorities of nearly every religious group except white Christian groups agree. About 70% of unaffiliated Americans and Hispanic Catholics, 65% of other non Christians and black Protestants and 63% of Jewish Americans say the increase is excessive. Only 22% of white evangelical Protestants share that view. Just think about that for a second.

[April Ajoy]

So 78% of white evangelicals are like, Trump's doing a great job.

[Tim Whitaker]

They've seen the videos of, of. Of people in cars, sometimes with children in the car getting their windows smashed out by ice. They've seen American citizens be wrongly mistaken as undocumented and arrested. They've seen the video that we shared of the family in court finishing their court proceeding and then being separated by ICE agents as the daughter is clinging to her dad for dear life. They've seen that and they say overwhelmingly approve. Yes, this is good. This is the Christian perspective to have. Now, here's the one that I think is really important and I'm going to bring up. I actually have a graph for this. If I pulled it, I think I did. That way people can kind of, you know, look, look along a little bit. So this is Trump's approval rating and how it breaks down. Okay, I'm going to read a summary here of this. So a majority of Americans, 56%, disapprove of Donald Trump's performance as president, while 42% approve. Let me just say that's still shocking to me. The shock, the shocking reality that 4 out of 10Americans think this is a good job is shocking. But I digress. This number has stayed near 40% since 2017. Approval is overwhelmingly partisan. 86% of Republicans approve. So all the things that you listed earlier, April, 86% of Republicans are not persuaded. That's problematic compared to 32% of independents and just 8% of Democrats support and this is really important. Support also varies by media. Trust approval is highest among those who rely on far right outlets like Newsmax or OAN 92% and Fox News 86%. Smaller majorities of those who trust radio, 67% or no media sources, 61% approve. Then it says among religious groups, white evangelicals 76%, white Catholics 57% and white mainline Protestants 57% mostly approve of Trump's job performance. Hispanic Protestants are split down the middle and in contrast, large majorities of black Protestants 77%, religiously unaffiliated Americans 77%, non Christian faiths 76%, Hispanic Catholics 71% and Jewish Americans 70% disapproved. Support among Christian nationalists rises with alignment. 77% of Christian nationalist adherence and 67% of Christian nationalist sympathizers approve of Trump. I say all this to summarize the claim that we make often. If you are thinking how did we get here, thank white evangelical Protestants for it. They are the largest group of religious group that is the most die hard in favor of Trump and everything that he's doing. And that's why I say this all the time. Cuz the data bears this out. The data bears this out. If you are a white evangelical Christian, you most likely are cheering on all this shit that is happening in America, including by the way, the Epstein files. Trump quite literally covering up the release of the Epstein files. Mike Johnson supporting that by not confirming, I think it's a senator or a congressperson to release. Thank you. Yes, to release the files. They see all of this, the party of protect the children and they go, Trump's our guy. Trump's our guy. This is why we call them whitewashed tombs. And this is why we're so angry because this is not a like. Well, hey, look, I mean even black Protestants are really split. No, it's very clear. White evangelical Protestants are the source. The funding, the networking, the promotion, the theological justification, everything. They are the reason we have Trump today. There is no way around it. Right.

[April Ajoy]

I do think it's we. To, to be fair, I do think a lot of those people, not all of them by any means, but they are not being told the whole story. Oh, of course not. You know, they're, they're being indoctrinated that they genuinely believe Antifa is full of violent like that. They're an actual thing that is all part of it.

[Tim Whitaker]

That's why I read that approval is highest among those who rely on far right outlets like Newsmax or OAN. 92% they, there is A prop. This is why we say propaganda is real and it's manifesting in the right wing media world. Right? So. And look, frankly, I agree with you, although it doesn't absolve them of any of this. But the leaders in particular, the white evangelical leaders, your Mark Driscoll's, your Lance Wall, now's your Charlie Kirk before they passed, your Ali Stuckeys, your Matt Walsh's, those people, right, are responsible for this. In the name of God.

[April Ajoy]

Well, and I think it's interesting too, that Trump has said over and over again, has given plenty of reasons for the, for us to know he's not actually a Christian. He doesn't actually follow Jesus. You know, and in his primary in 2015, he said he's never asked God for forgiveness. He can't name his favorite Bible verse. He has said 2 Corinthians. Like, there's a long, long list of Donald Trump saying pretty ignorant things. If he is this supposed Christian hero that evangelicals claim he is. And he had a new one. He had a most recent one just last week.

[Tim Whitaker]

Nice segue. Nice segue.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah. Just last week he was asked about, you know, if he's gonna go to heaven because he made a joke about how he was solving all these wars to try to get to heaven, which is, goes against Evangelicalism 101, because it's not about works. But he recently just said he doesn't think he's going to heaven. We have this video clip I was gonna say, is this the one where the guy's responding, the Christian guy? Okay, so instead of hearing Donald Trump basically say, you know, I know I'm not really a Christian, which is basically what he says over and over and over again. You see the, the mental gymnastics that they go through to somehow twist what he says to, to make it, oh, no, he's actually so spiritual. Look at this. He's, he's, he's making a great point.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yep.

[April Ajoy]

Hey, everyone, this is Melinda Hale, the.

[Tim Whitaker]

Executive director of the New Evangelicals. Listen.

[April Ajoy]

Every day we hear from people who.

[Tim Whitaker]

Feel isolated, disillusioned and hurt by a version of Christianity that has been hijacked.

[April Ajoy]

By politics and nationalism. And yet they still long for a.

[Tim Whitaker]

Faith that is rooted in love, justice, and compassion. And that's why the New Evangelicals exist, because we believe there is a better path forward. We're creating resources, hosting conversations, and we're building communities for people who want to reclaim Christianity and stay rooted in the teachings of Jesus.

[April Ajoy]

But building a movement like this takes.

[Tim Whitaker]

Time, it takes energy, and it takes financial support. So if this podcast or our YouTube, our educational offerings or community space or anything that we've created has impacted you, would you consider becoming a donor? Even a gift of $5 makes a.

[April Ajoy]

Huge difference for small organizations like this.

[Tim Whitaker]

Your support helps us to continue empowering people to put their faith into action.

[April Ajoy]

By rejecting Christian nationalism and to live.

[Tim Whitaker]

In a way that shows people how to truly love our neighbors. Together, I know that we could build something beautiful. So visit theneweevangelicals.com support to give today. You can find the link right in.

[April Ajoy]

Our show Notes thank you for standing with us. My name is Jazza, I'm from Waco, Texas and I've been a listener of the TNE podcast for about a year now and have really appreciated the nuanced breakdown of current events, theology and politics that Tim and the TNE team provides. I am a donor and supporter of tne not only because I hope to see Yalls work expanded and the information further shared, but also because I am a listener who is probably, like many of the listeners, a person who has oftentimes become disillusioned by the Christian Church in America and evangelicalism. And I have found a lot of encouragement and empathy from the work that TNA does and I'm excited to be able to continue supporting so the the guy in this video, he's a Christian influencer.

[Tim Whitaker]

I don't so classic.

[April Ajoy]

I don't know his actual name. I think on TikTok he's like the good news guy or something like that. I don't know. Anyway, yeah, yeah, let's watch.

[Tim Whitaker]

I don't think there's anything gonna get me in heaven. Okay. I really don't. I think. I think I'm not maybe heaven bound. Trump just said the quiet part out loud. And regardless of what you think about him, this isn't about politics. This is a fear so many Christians live with. If I asked 100 Christians how confident they'd be on a scale of 1 to 10 that they would get to heaven one day, I'd hear answers all across the board. I'd hear six, I'd hear seven. I'd hear eight. I'd hear nine. Out of your some tension. But the reality of the situation is anything less than a 10 is a fundamental misunderstanding of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It's not a doubting of you. It's a misunderstanding of the work he's already done. Because when he said it was finished, he meant it. And he was talking about your sin past, present and future. For it is by grace, that we have been saved through faith and not of our own doing. It's not about good works so that nobody can boast. If you. If I gave you a gift, the only thing you have to do to receive that gift is to take it. It's the same way with Jesus. And so what Trump misunderstands, what so many Christians misunderstand is this is not climbing the ladder. That's religiosity. This is about a relationship with Jesus where we receive his good gift, we receive the good grace that was poured on the cross, and so you can stand before him one day with confidence. And when he asks you, what? Why should I let you into heaven? You point over at his son and you say, it's not because of me, it's because of Him. Can I respond to that, please?

[April Ajoy]

Go for it.

[Tim Whitaker]

The reason why April and I are laughing at this is because it's not true for these people. Meaning April and I as Christians could say, you know what, Bible guy, I agree with you. And also, I believe that being gay is not sinful. And they would say, well, you can't believe that, though, like, that, that. That. That belief kind of trumps your belief that. Yeah. That you can't earn your way into heaven. So there actually is a framework of having not just right belief, but right action, who you vote for, what policies you want to see done, et cetera, that are all tied to this. That's why this guy's not picking up some progressive pastor. Right. Or someone who's a progressive saying this. He's picking up Trump because he wants to reinforce that, hey, Trump, you know, if Trump just prayed the prayer, if he just relied on the full work of Christ, he'd be in heaven one day.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah.

[Tim Whitaker]

I mean, maybe he sexually assaults women, you know, posts AI videos of him taking shits on people, but that's all good. But the second it's a progressive Christian who's like, hey, you know what? I believe that. And also, that's exactly why I think my queer neighbors should be welcomed into America. We should fight for equality everywhere. We should fight for the eradication of systemic racism. Oh, no, no, no. That's woke. That's liberal. That's Marxist. He can't be a Christian and have those views. You can't be a Christian and be pro choice. That's what's so frustrating about this, because it's. It's just a complete capitulation, and it's a lie. It's just not true.

[April Ajoy]

Well, they're all about that. You Know, your Christianity is just based on saying a prayer when we're talking about Donald Trump or conservatives or, you know, anyone on their side, Right. Which, which. So it takes complete responsibility off of them to actually do good works, because works don't get you into heaven. It's just about saying, believing the right things and saying the prayer. It's how you can have people still, like platforming Russell Brand right now, who has an active rape case against him in England, and they're like, oh, he's such a great Christian. It's how you could, you know, see Donald Trump. It's not about all the terrible things he's doing because he just has to say a prayer. But it's so wild to me, though, because I, I grew up. I don't know if you taught this. I was taught, told so many times over and over and over again that if I had doubts, if you have doubts about your salvation, what sin is in your life, that would make you question that. Because true Christians know that. They know that they know that they know that they know. You cannot have any doubts about where you're gonna go. And if you do have a doubt, come on up to the altar, call and let's. Let's nip that in the bud. Like, it's just so, not to mention Donald Trump can see exactly who he is, and they find ways to be like, oh, well, he just. He didn't mean it like that. He actually just gave a great sermon illustration. It's like, oh, my gosh, so annoying.

[Tim Whitaker]

This is not a theological show. If you want theology, go to the New Evangelicals podcast. But all I will say is that even this view of the gospel and going to heaven when you die is incredibly, I would argue, not in the Bible. And also, it's a really new way of thinking about salvation. That's all I'll say on that. But even his main premise, that you just gotta say this prayer, and then it's all about confidence of knowing when you go, knowing where you're gonna go when you die. Foreign. Foreign to the teachings of Jesus, even foreign to most of the New Testament, it is not about that. And any legitimate biblical scholar, even conservative ones, they will say that to you. So not only is this what Diedrich Bonhoeffer would call his cheap grace, Right. But it also reinforces Christian fascism at the same time. That's why it's so disingenuous. I think it's also. I just want to point this out. So Megan Basham is. She calls herself a journalist. I think it's kind of laughable personally. And she's like a right wing journalist. Right. For the Daily Wire. This is another good way of how they twist things. So the tweet is her reposting a report that says breaking President Trump. I don't think there's anything that's gonna get me into heaven. I really don't. I think I'm not maybe heaven bound. Megan's. Megan's. Her commentary on this is. This is actually good. Trump seems to realize that he cannot earn his way into heaven. This is closer than he was before.

[April Ajoy]

So stupid. What that is now. What?

[Tim Whitaker]

That's not what he said.

[April Ajoy]

Like, they're like, Donald Trump is a Christian hero no matter what he says. Like he's telling us over and over and over again. I have no. I know nothing about faith or Christianity. I'm not going to heaven. Oh, maybe I am going to heaven. And then they're like, oh, no, look, this, this is how. This is actually good.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah. I mean, by the way, Trump's words were, I don't think there's anything that's going to get me into heaven. Which would include praying a prayer and trusting in Christ. Megan. It seems to realize he cannot earn his way into heaven. This is closer than he was before. Are you joking? Are you gotta be kidding me? Like, okay, okay. Anyway. Okay, we have to move on because we are getting close to time here really quick. I want to promote two things for the new evangelicals that we're doing that might be really great for all of you. First off, the new evangelicals, it's a nonprofit organization, digital first. We offer tons of free resources both behind our private community called TNE Connect. You can join that by going to thenewevangelicals.com Connect Connect Again, it's totally free. This is not an ad where you're gonna get, get, you know, manipulated into giving us money, but to get access to a course. Everything we do is paywall free because we're a nonprofit. Okay, so TNE Connect is like our private off of meta. Off of the algorithm place. It's quiet. There's about 4,000 people in there. We do things like Theology 101 where we bring in top tier scholars, live to work through different topics about the Bible or the faith. We have private conversations for different types of folks, like our Rainbow Conversations, which is for the queer community. And we're doing book club again. We're bringing back book club and we're going through Kathryn Stewart's new book, Money, God and Lies. If you don't know Katherine Stewart. You need to. She's an amazing investigative journalist. She's also a good friend. Her work and many of her books, the Power Worshipers Good news clubs are just really helpful to understand what's going on behind the scenes. So we're going to be going through her book starting I think end of this month actually. Again, totally free to join. Except of course just buying the book. You should do that. It's going to be an amazing thing. So I really recommend if you're someone out there, maybe you're new to this show, you're thinking, okay, what do I do? Please get plugged into the new evangelicals. I founded the organization five years ago. It's led by Melinda Hale. We have so many amazing free resources. If you want to support, support that work. If maybe you're a rich billionaire out there watching this, we would gladly love and and take your your financial support because we are a grassroots funded organization. We do not have George Soros funding as much as it might be nice. So thenewevangelicals.com support is how you get access to that to donate. And that's a little bit about us.

[April Ajoy]

Okay. Yes. And before we move on really quickly, we do have a bunch of super chats.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay.

[April Ajoy]

We have to read really quick.

[Tim Whitaker]

Okay. Yeah. We could do this. We could do this.

[April Ajoy]

We could do this.

[Tim Whitaker]

All right, let's see. I think we left on this one. Can you read these?

[April Ajoy]

All right. Yes. Okay. Jack Cole. Collie says I've noticed April wearing more red lipstick lately. Is that due to his anti fascist meeting? Looks good by the way. Let's go with that. I definitely thought that out.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, I knew you did. That's big brain thinking over there.

[April Ajoy]

Yes. But thank you. Thank you. Stevie Clown 2000. Some people didn't want to Schoolhouse Rock growing up and it shows. Totally. Joseph Compton IV says these people have to rationalize the fact that 7 billion Americans came out against their king. They talk about Trump like he's a proxy for Jesus. You are absolutely right, Kyle Fisher. I forget when it was but do y' all remember when pastors were saying people were mad about that woke sermon on the mount? Yes. Yeah, they said it was too sissy for today. S Drake, thank you for the super chat. Oh, another one. Thank you. White House posted Trump with crowns started no kings.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yep. That's right.

[April Ajoy]

Yep. Sci fi Mombi. Love the name. Do you know how many white evangelicals actually take government assisted it's assistance. It's a lot. These stats are surprising. Surprising to me. Yes. A Lot of these people vote against their own interests. That is.

[Tim Whitaker]

It's called the conservative dilemma. Look it up. It's an actual thing. It's. There's a term for it.

[April Ajoy]

Fiona Ashton, keep up the good work. You give me hope. Sweater hearts.

[Tim Whitaker]

People love your sweater. People love your sweater, April.

[April Ajoy]

Thank you.

[Tim Whitaker]

Honestly, I saw it too. I was like, damn, girl, that's looking. That's a unique sweater. I'm vibing with that. I'm just wearing a basic black T shirt like normal, so. And the last one from Cosmic. Just appreciate you all so much. Look, just briefly and we'll get into our last segment here. We appreciate all of you so much. April and I talk consistently about what our privilege it is to do the show, how it helps us not feel alone. I think that sometimes people assume that on this side of the camera, we just live a life that's kind of like this is all we do. We don't really have feelings. We're not concerned about things. We don't have kids or families or bills to pay. And we do. Like, we are just like you guys in the trenches, you know, thinking about this stuff. We just have the privilege of being able to do it a little more publicly than you. But truly, you showing up to the live streams, you know, being in the chat, it just. It is helpful for us as well. And we are committed. As we've said many times now, we are very committed to being here as long as we're able to be here. So your support makes that possible. Even by liking the YouTube videos and being here on Substack with Lincoln Square, it just tells people who are above us that this show matters and that there's an audience for it. And frankly, that's important in the world of digital currency. So it really means the world to have you here. So thank you so much.

[April Ajoy]

I echo those sentiments. Okay, so we were going to go a little. We're going to just do this briefly because I had us ending at like 1:15.

[Tim Whitaker]

LOL.

[April Ajoy]

LOL. I know. So obviously a big story that happened last week when we were not live was the GOP league, the. The quote, unquote, young Republicans. Even though some of them are in their 30s. There were a bunch of, like, pretty pro Nazi, pro Hitler, anti Semitic, very, yeah, very racist text that got leaked within this group chat of these GOP leaders. Someone saying I love Hitler jokes about gas chambers.

[Tim Whitaker]

I mean, yeah, you can read on racial slurs. Again, like, I'm not going to read them, but there's just a lot of. Look Put it this way, there's a lot of things said in this group chat that's leaked, that is. But they would say it's a stereotype type of, like, conservatives. And they would say, that's not really us. That's not what we believe. We're not Nazis. We're not racist. And then these texts come out. It's like, well, I mean, your. Your. Your private messages kind of proved the point. And these are. These are upcoming GOP leaders. These are not just some randos on. On Twitter. These are people who are in the GOP. They're in the New York GOP. They're not kids. They're in their 20s and 30s, and they're saying stuff that is, like, just reprehensible. And I want to make this point before we get into these clips, because the way JD Vance responded was truly mind blowing. I want to be really clear. And April, I'm not sure about you. You know what? I'll just say, you correct me if this is not your experience, but even growing up a conservative evangelical fundamentalist, I was taught that Hitler was bad. You shouldn't say the N word, and you shouldn't make fun of sexual assault. I mean, again, I'm just saying, even in that tradition, I knew Hitler. Bad gas chambers are not something to joke about. You don't want to celebrate being a Nazi. You don't want to drop racial slurs. You don't want to celebrate sexual assault. Was that yours? Was that your story, too?

[April Ajoy]

It was. It was. And I do think the. The growing movements of neo Nazis within Republicanism, they've always been there, but they used to be shunned, and now they're kind of just more welcomed. Is a clear indicator of how, like, just how the extremism of the Republican Party from years past has now become mainstream. And it is interesting to me, I want to point out, too, you know, one thing that so many maga, you know, Trump, Caroline Levitt, all these Republicans were demonizing the left for calling them fascists, for calling them Hitler, and they blamed that on why Charlie Kirk was murdered despite zero evidence of that. But what I want to say is you would think if they really cared about being called Nazis, that they would. They would be. It would be easy for them to condemn. Easy, actual Nazi talk.

[Tim Whitaker]

Easy.

[April Ajoy]

Right, right. It would just be like, see them condemn it.

[Tim Whitaker]

Oh, shoot, I didn't know that we were talking about how Hitler was great. We stand against that. You would think. The first picture I want to share is a tweet from Joel Berry, who's, like, very embedded. I think he's part of Babylon B or was part of Babylon B. His response to this is like, this is a Christian. This is. This is a Christian nationalist. Okay, so he's retweeting.

[April Ajoy]

I don't think he would call himself one. He's one of those.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, that's fine. Politico. He's retweeting the political article exclusive. Thousands of leaked messages showing leaders of young Republican groups joking about gas chambers, slavery, and the R WOR and private telegram chat. Joel Berry's response. Remember, these are all bad things. So basically every Gen Z high school, college guy chat group ever, like, way.

[April Ajoy]

To tell on yourself, Joel. Like, what the crap.

[Tim Whitaker]

Every.

[April Ajoy]

It reminds me. It reminds me of what they said when Donald Trump's Access Hollywood tape came out when he was talking where he was bragging about a. Assaulting women and a bunch of guys were like, oh, that's just locker room talk. This is what, you know, boys will be boys. I don't know. Boys will be boys if those boys are Nazis.

[Tim Whitaker]

Again, I. The reason why I feel so betrayed, it's not just hurt, but betrayed by my evangelical tradition is because they taught me this stuff, and now they're embracing this shit. They're defending this again. I didn't really move. I evolved. I took their foundational principles that they taught me of. Following Jesus no matter what the cost is right? Following the truth no matter where it leads you, even if. Even if it costs you of loving my neighbor. As myself, these are things I was taught in Sunday school by people, by actual people who I think were trying to give me good values. And here they are a couple decades later, and their party is full of people dropping things like, Hitler was great. A Trump nominee who had to withdraw his nomination said that he had a Nazi streak inside of him, Right? And the response so far is that's locker room talk. Or even worse, the Vice President says this.

[April Ajoy]

Just listen to this.

[Tim Whitaker]

By focusing on what kids are saying in a group chat. Grow up. I'm sorry? Focus on the real issues. Don't focus what on what kids say in group chats. But there's another angle to this that I just have to be honest about. I mean, I'm like an old guy at this point. I'm 41 years old. I have three kids. You know, we. I grew up in a different world, right? Where not most of what I. The stupid things that I did when I was a teenager and a young adult, they're not on The Internet. Like, I'm going to tell my kids, especially my boys, don't put things on the Internet. Like, be careful with what you post. If you put something in a group, that chat, assume that some scumbag is going to leak it in an effort to try to cause you harm or cause your family harm. But the reality is that kids do stupid things, especially young boys. They tell edgy, offensive jokes. Like, that's what kids do. And I really don't want us to grow up in a country where a kid telling a stupid joke, telling a very offensive, stupid joke is caused to ruin their lives. And at some point we're all, all going to have to say, say enough of this bs. We're not going to allow the worst moment in a 21 year old's group chat to ruin a kid's life for the rest of time. That's just not okay. Like, we live in a digital world. This stuff is now etched in stone online. We're all going to have to say, you know what? No, no, no, we're not doing this. We're not canceling kids because they do something stupid in a group chat. And if I have to be the person who carries that message forward, forward. I'm fine with pathetic. But don't forget, April, if you talk out about Charlie Kirk in a way that we don't like, you should be fired from your job. You should be put on a, on, on a list that's public, right? These are the same people who were like, we're going to use the government to go after people who talk about Charlie in ways that we don't like. That's so offensive to them that they want them fired and their lives destroyed. But you mentioned that Hitler was great. Or you joke about, you joke. You, you, you talk about putting your political enemies in gas chambers. You call black people racial slurs. You, you celebrate and brag about sexual assault. That's just boys being boys. That's just kid talk. That's just coarse joking. No big deal. It's not ruined. And don't forget, these aren't just normal people. They're running to be leaders inside of the party that JD Vance is currently presiding over.

[April Ajoy]

And not kids. And notice you, they were like in the 30s. But notice to how he was like talking about like, I'm going to teach my kids not to post things on the Internet and not to say things in group chats. Not because being saying Nazi things is wrong, but because you might get caught, right? Like that's the underlying. They're like, what do you mean? So he, his children are brown. He does not have white children. Like the, the party that he is promoting, that the policies that he are promoting would negatively impact his own children and wife.

[Tim Whitaker]

I think.

[April Ajoy]

And he can't condemn that.

[Tim Whitaker]

I think it's here where he says this. Let me see. When I was a teenager and a young adult, they're not on the Internet. Like, I'm going to tell my kids, listen to this. Especially my boys. Don't put things on the Internet. Like, be careful with what you post. If you put something in a group chat, assume that some scumbag is going to leak it and okay, some scumbag is going to leak it. The scumbag in this scenario is not the people saying Hitler was great. It's not the person who said, I have a Nazi streak inside of me and MLK Day should be put into the seventh circle of hell. That's not the scumbag. The scumbag is the journalist who told the truth about what these people say behind closed doors. Do you. Again, I'm talking to the audience now. Do you understand how the propaganda works? You understand that's so subtle, right? Right. Most people wouldn't even hear it cognitively, but that sits somewhere in your head that the scumbag is the journalist, not the people saying the scumbag things. And again, I want to be so freaking clear. This isn't even an edgy joke. It's Hitler. It is Hitler. It is World War II Hitler who killed 6 million Jewish people in concentration camps. And by the way, people think I'm going to rant for a second. People think that Hitler just showed up one day and was like, let's kill all the Jews. And people were like, that sounds great. No, it was a slow burn. It was a slow creep. Step by step by step. Most people did not know, did not know that there was some great plan to put Jewish people in concentration camps and kill them. That happened over time. And so the reason why scholars, people who read history, people who deeply are devoted to this work, the reason why they're frank freaking the fuck out is because they've seen the same playbook used in Nazi Germany. They know where we are heading. That's what scares all of us people. Do you understand that? So when we see in the GOP leaked text messages saying Hitler was great, we believe them. We believe that you believe that. We believe that you think a genocidal maniac who was racist and anti Semitic and an authoritarian and who fundamentally took over Germany to be A one party political system. Right? We believe you when you say that that's your game plan, which is why we are so outspoken against this. And it only adds on to the problem when it's your Christian faith that radicalized you to be a Jesus follower. That is the group that is most responsible for it. As we just said in the data a second ago, PRI is clear. White Evangelical Protestants are the largest religious group that go. Job well done, Trump. Job well done. Way to gut USAID and take food out of the mouths of starving children. Props to you. Way to undercut SNAP benefits. Did you know that, April, that the government right now cannot afford apparently to pay SNAP benefits out, but it can afford $40 billion to Argentina. It can afford a $200 million renovation in the White House. It can't afford to pay Kristi Noem with two private freaking jets. Anyway, I say all this because the reason why April and I are so outspoken is because we can see where we are headed. And when you mix this kind of propaganda in with the God card, that God sanctions this, that God has called people to this, we can look through history, including Nazi Germany. This is why Dietrich Bonhoeffer is so important. You can look through how the church was also used in Nazi Germany to baptize what the Nazis did to many people. Not even. It wasn't even just Jews. It was wider than that. Right. You can see where this heads. And so it is really beyond appalling to hear our vice President in chief not even be able to pass the lowest hurdle known to human existence today, which is to condemn people who say Hitler was great. His response is to call the journalists who brought those messages to the public a scumbag. And to call the people who said Hitler was great kids who were just joking. Well, guess what, J.D. vance, these just jokes are gonna kill a lot of freaking people because you endorse them.

[April Ajoy]

Right? And if you are so offended when people call you the party of fascism and Nazis, then you should condemn that. If you don't want to be called that, then don't do things that are that. And this is exactly why over 7 million people showed up to the no Kings protest.

[Tim Whitaker]

Exactly.

[April Ajoy]

Because we can see the direction that this country is having. I saw several signs, both in person and then online too, from people that either they were like really, really old and said, like, I fought in World War II against fascism and I'm doing the same today, or there were so many signs of people that said, like, my dad or my grandfather fought Nazis and the 1930s and now I'm here doing the same thing again to keep that from happening again. Like that is. I. It's so, it's just so frustrating. You know, you. You feel like you're sometimes screaming into the void because it's so obvious when you're not on the inside. So many people are drinking the Kool Aid. They're being indoctrinated, they're. They're falling for this very extreme right wing propaganda and they laugh about it and it's jokes. And I do think part of the reason that Donald Trump, even if he's just trolling now with all these images of him as a king and joking about him being a king, that is, I think, to slowly desensitize people as he becomes more and more king like that. You just. It won't be such a shock to the system when he is arresting American citizens for disagreeing with what he does. We're not there yet, but we are damn close.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah. I mean, look, if people want to see a very stark reality difference between before Trump and after Trump politically, watch the Obama, Mitt Romney debate, just go back and watch it. That was the last presidential election before Trump hopped on the scene. Just watch that debate. Watch how Mitt Romney and Obama talk. Watch the approach that they both have. Just go watch it. Just go watch it. And then compare and contrast what we're seeing today. I'm sorry, again, we have to tell the truth. And the truth is that we are on a dangerous descent. Our neighbors are being kidnapped. Right? We're watching DEI become a new racist dog whistle. We're watching our government get gutted in the worst way possible. We're watching oligarchs benefit off of all of this. We're watching a man who is a madman, a megalomaniac who thinks that he's God, come in. And on a personal level, what hurts the most is watching the people who raised me support it and then call me the apostate. Why am I an apostate? Because I want universal healthcare for all my neighbors. Because I think that queer people deserve dignity and respect and should have the right to get married. That I think trans people should have access to affordable health care. Because I want my immigrant neighbor not thrown into a concentration camp. And I want us to reform our immigration system so we can actually create real paths to citizenship. Because multiculturalism actually is a net positive on society. Like, this is why you guys think I'm an apostate, because you think I'm a radical. You think I'm a radical for this the level of pain and betrayal inside of me, it's like a daily shell shocked attitude where you're like, wait, what? I forgot that this is where we are in society. So I think for us, and I know that a lot of people may be watching, especially folks on Lincoln Square didn't really grow up how we did. It's a deeply personal thing for you and me because we grew up in a world where we believe what they told us. And we kept walking down that road and we watched Jesus walk right out of the churches that we were raised in and we followed him, you know, and that's where we are. So.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah, no, totally. I mean, I would say as a Christian myself, what Trump and this administration is doing is antichrist 100%. You can't. You cannot follow Jesus, the teachings of Jesus while also following the teachings of Trump because they are in direct conflict. They contradict each other. Okay, we do have a couple more super chats and then we will get to our favorite segment.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah, yeah, we're having some fun. It's not all bad here, I promise. So here's one from Steven Rhodes. Glad I found you all a couple years ago. Thank you so much, Stephen. And from Bob, Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful. Stoic philosopher, Seneca. Wow, that is a good line, I might say.

[April Ajoy]

Thank you all for the super chats. We appreciate you all being here. And now it is time for.

[Tim Whitaker]

Hold on. Sorry, I have to prep it.

[April Ajoy]

Now it is time for weird Christian. We did it. That was so seamless.

[Tim Whitaker]

So seamless.

[April Ajoy]

Okay, you got.

[Tim Whitaker]

You got to tee this one up. You got to. This one up.

[April Ajoy]

This is a Christian influencer. I think his name's Gabe something. Gabriel maybe. I've seen him show up on my feed organically a few times. It's always. It's just a little cringy. So this is a sketch.

[Tim Whitaker]

Wait, hold on just a little. This dude is this close to the camera. His eyes are like, right in front of you. And I. I don't mean this in a mean way. He looks like a little psychotic. Like, dude, are you okay? Are you like, when's the last time you slept? That's how he usually looks on camera. I'm just telling you.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah, he does get really close to the camera.

[Tim Whitaker]

It's like a jump scare.

[April Ajoy]

But he's not in this, in this video. This is a sketch. This is a youth group, like, video style. So the text on the screen, for those listening, it says spiritual realm. So this is they're acting this out, so just. Let's just watch and enjoy. He's getting a phone call.

[Tim Whitaker]

Hello. Yo.

[April Ajoy]

Hey, what's up?

[Tim Whitaker]

You want to come over, watch some scary movies? I'm gonna pass on this one. Oh, come on, bro. It's Halloween. I'm just not into the demonic stuff, bro. I'll be. I'll be praising Jesus.

[April Ajoy]

I'll be reading my Bible.

[Tim Whitaker]

All right, whatever. Your Bible thumper.

[April Ajoy]

All right, bro.

[Tim Whitaker]

Bye.

[April Ajoy]

I love when God's children are entertained by me.

[Tim Whitaker]

I love when my children spend time with me. That's it.

[April Ajoy]

So I don't. For the record, I don't believe that this guy is actually friends with this guy named Matt with one T. Like, come on, watch a horror movie. And the guy's like, nah, I'm just going to be praising Jesus. Like, all right, whatever, you Bible thumper. Like, there's no way y' all are friends.

[Tim Whitaker]

There's no way. Yeah. And then Satan. So for those who can't see it, Satan pops up behind the guy who's like, you're a Bible thumper. And then he says, you know, I love when God's children are entertained by me. And then it flashes to the other dude with, like, a very white hand touching his very white shirt, and it has in his voice. I live with my children, spend time with me, and he has a Bible open and he's praying, and it's like.

[April Ajoy]

Also, like, there was no. There really wasn't a lesson here, because all that. All the guy with the horror movie got was just a guy in a black robe standing behind him. I mean, there was no terror, really, other than just a guy behind him. I mean, honestly, both clips are equally creepy. I don't want a random person. You know, honestly, can I just say, the demon, the guy in the black road just stood behind him, did not touch him.

[Tim Whitaker]

That's true. He waited for consent.

[April Ajoy]

Did not get. Yeah, the angel guy did not get consent to touch that shoulder.

[Tim Whitaker]

Nope.

[April Ajoy]

Just saying.

[Tim Whitaker]

I'll tell you to be clear. If I had my Bible open and a bright light appeared and a random ass white hand touched my shoulder, I'd be terrified. I'd be scared to death. I'd be like, what the hell? So I feel like there's just two types of Halloween. Do you want to be scared by the archangel Michael, or do you want to have something in a black robe not touch you at all and not even be in your purview? Like, the guy didn't even know he was there. Yeah, I Mean, that sounds less scary to me.

[April Ajoy]

I just love too how all year, all year, evangelicals are like, faith over fear. Faith over fear. And then as soon as it's October, suddenly demons can come through the tv. If you watch something scary, you know.

[Tim Whitaker]

Like what it's that both and right. It's like Sleepy Joe Biden. So pathetic. Also, he's the most dangerous man in America who's bringing in the Marxist agenda. It's like, okay, well, which one is it? Is he like asleep half the time or is he, like, super radical?

[April Ajoy]

Also, like, I. Okay. I mean, I. I have Jesus juked my fair share of people in my really evangelical days, but I've never. If someone called and asked me to do something that I didn't want to do because I was a Christian, I've never been like, nah, sorry, bro. I'm gonna be praising Jesus.

[Tim Whitaker]

That's true. I've never said it like that.

[April Ajoy]

Yeah. Nah, bro.

[Tim Whitaker]

You do you.

[April Ajoy]

And also, he didn't stop the guy. He wasn't like, not. You know what? You shouldn't do that because Satan's gonna show up. He was just like, nah, I'm just gonna praise Jesus. Like, you know what? Maybe warn a dude right now if, you know. If you know sage is gonna show up behind you. Maybe a little warning like, nah, I'm just gonna pray Jesus. But you do you. You know, I'm not worried about you.

[Tim Whitaker]

He's not really a great proselytizer. Right. Like, do you really care about people if, you know a demon's gonna pop up behind the guy? Right. They're trying to warn him. Yeah.

[April Ajoy]

But again, the demon was just there. I didn't see anything terrifying.

[Tim Whitaker]

Nope.

[April Ajoy]

Just. Just. Just a lurker.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yeah.

[April Ajoy]

So, you know, fun times.

[Tim Whitaker]

Fun times. Well, what a show. I mean, we got through a lot. I appreciate everyone being here. Always a lot of fun. Make sure to give this video a like subscribe to the YouTube channel but just past 10,000 subscribers. 000subs make sure to subscribe on substack to the New Evangelical Substack. It's actually a really amazing place because it's essays written by people in our community. So it's not just me or April or Melinda who write there. It's from people involved in our digital space writing from their perspective. So it's a really beautiful place. Shout out to Lincoln Square Media for being so amazing. We love working with them. It's been fantastic. Anything else, April, that I'm missing?

[April Ajoy]

No, I don't think so.

[Tim Whitaker]

Wait, this is why we have a run a show tne connect. If you are looking for a place to find digital community in, join us over at TheNew Evangelicals. TNE Connect. It's TheNewEvangelicals.com connect. You can get in. It's totally free. I know people always think, what's the catch? Since the beginning of the organization, my only hardcore principle was no paywalls anywhere. And because of people's generosity, we've been able to maintain that. So I promise there is not one thing anywhere in our content, on our shows, in our digital spaces that is behind a paywall. The only thing we do is we ask for donations because that's how we make that possible.

[April Ajoy]

So you could join the app or subscribe. Leave us a review on Apple podcasts.

[Tim Whitaker]

Yes.

[April Ajoy]

Do you have the sound bite that you got for special things like this? And you might be asking, what? Why should you do that?

[Tim Whitaker]

Well, nothing bad can happen. It can only good happen. It can only good happen. All right, well, with that being said, I'm Tim Whitaker.

[April Ajoy]

And I'm April Ajoy. See ya sa.