← The Tim & April Show
The Tim & April Show
63. Explosive Epstein Emails, Democrats Cave, and SCOTUS Upholds Gay Marriage
01:31:36
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- [00:01]
April Ajoy
Okay, only 10 more presents to wrap. You're almost at the finish line. But first.
- [00:12]
Melinda Hale
There, the last one.
- [00:15]
April Ajoy
Enjoy a Coca Cola for a pause that refreshes.
- [00:21]
Melinda Hale
Long day, late night. Love putting on your makeup, but hate taking it off. There's really no better feeling than coming home, getting comfy and removing your makeup. With Garnier Waterproof Micellar Water, it easily removes even stubborn waterproof mascara. None of that harsh rubbing needed and you don't even have to rinse afterwards. It leaves skin cleansed, refreshed and never dry. Head to Amazon to shop Garnier Waterproof Micellar Water now. Hey everyone, Melinda Hale here, the executive director of the New Evangelicals. I just want to take a moment to say thank you for listening to the Tim and April Show. This show and everything that we do at the New Evangelicals exists because of people like you. We can't do any of this without your support. Every conversation you hear, every resource we create, every piece of educational content that helps people rethink faith through the lens of love and justice is all made possible through our community. Now, if you believe in what we're building, a faith that unites instead of divides, I'd love to invite you to become a monthly supporter. Even just $5 a month helps us to continue to bring you shows like this one, expand our educational tools and create spaces for honest hope filled conversations. You can join us by going to thenewevangelicals.com support and becoming a monthly donor. Thanks for being a part of this movement and for building a better path forward together.
- [01:39]
April Ajoy
You're listening to a new Evangelicals production, the Tim and April show where we unravel faith, politics and culture. Hello everybody. Welcome to the Tim and April Show. It is Thursday, November 13th. Yeah, I'm April A joy.
- [02:12]
Tim Whitaker
I'm Tim Whitaker.
- [02:17]
April Ajoy
And again we had a show planned and then yesterday a bombshell emails. Yeah, this Epstein stuff is. I mean not surprising but we're gonna.
- [02:37]
Tim Whitaker
Get damning for sure.
- [02:38]
April Ajoy
Yeah, we'll get into that.
- [02:40]
Tim Whitaker
Yeah. Friends, welcome in. If you're watching live on YouTube, please make sure to give this stream a like subscribe to the channel if you're watching on substack. Hello, welcome in. We are new to the Lincoln Square media family as we are being restreamed on their sub sack. So we are two former Christian conservatives slash Christian nationalist who rethought their faith is still very much Christian but now we spend most of our time d not debunking but I would say exposing Christian nationalism and helping folks find a better path forward in faith. So, so good to be with you, all of you. Yeah, this is gonna be a doozy. We have a lot to get into. We are absolutely gonna talk about the Democrats who caved. I'm so angry about that. We'll get into the Epstein files and then some other things. So. Yeah, I mean, April, last I heard from you is that you had no heat in your house. So just checking in to make sure that you have heat now. Still no heat. Okay.
- [03:31]
April Ajoy
Still no heat.
- [03:31]
Tim Whitaker
Still no heat.
- [03:32]
April Ajoy
But thankfully it's. Yeah, we. They have a part ordered. Hopefully it'll be fixed. Hopefully tomorrow. But thankfully it's at least in the 50s outside.
- [03:40]
Tim Whitaker
We're like, good.
- [03:41]
April Ajoy
Earlier this week, it was in the 20s and we had snow on the ground, so that was a bit rough. But, you know, I've got my hot water that I'm drinking.
- [03:51]
Tim Whitaker
Not coffee or tea, just.
- [03:52]
April Ajoy
No, it's actually an emergency. But I drink it hot because I'm cold.
- [03:59]
Tim Whitaker
Yeah, makes sense.
- [04:00]
April Ajoy
But I'm okay. I'm surviving. One thing we do want to mention too, that I felt that was like really good news that happened this week is we had mentioned this back in August. You were gone. I think it was promise. Eve was framed. Who I had on. We talked about this, but Kim Davis signed, basically had this appeal to the Supreme Court to basically revisit the ruling on same sex marriage and wanting the Supreme Court to overturn it because she didn't want to have to pay. It's a lot of money because she got sued when she refused to issue marriage licenses as a county clerk, mind you.
- [04:33]
Tim Whitaker
Right.
- [04:33]
April Ajoy
But the Supreme Court, I was pleasantly surprised they rejected her, the overturn appeal. So they will not be revisiting that. So for now, marriage equality is safe. And I, you know, we'll take the wins. I was very. I was very happy to see that.
- [04:52]
Tim Whitaker
Yeah, no, for sure. And friends, by the way, all super chats on YouTube will get read live. We do our best because all of your support goes to making this show possible. So if you want to comment that, that you want to get read, make sure to send a super chat in. You know, look, I. April, I feel like you and I, one of the good things about this show is that we are different people. And so I love the yin and yang approach here because I'm with you. While, yes, I am happy that this happened. I just think we have to really emphasize the bare bones asks that we have in this country, like we live in a secular, constitutional, democratic republic. And all we want is for people who are not heterosexual to have the same legal rights to marriage. We're not asking churches to marry gay couples. We're not demanding that conservative Christians acquiesce their theology and are coerced by the state. We're simply asking for the government to recognize that same sex couples should get the same legal access that people like you and I get. And the fact that we are cheering over what should be like a baseline. Of course. Of course this should happen. It just is like. It's frustrating, but also, I would take the win.
- [06:03]
April Ajoy
You. I'm with you. And sharing the frustration that we even have to be here. But as someone who is very familiar with Project 2025 and with Clarence Thomas, who is a Supreme Court justice who has said that he wants to overturn Obergefell, I had a big sigh of relief that they rejected this.
- [06:22]
Tim Whitaker
Absolutely. Absolutely.
- [06:24]
April Ajoy
In a. In a world that is very scary and there are a lot of losses and there's a lot of just really terrible things happening with this administration, I'm going to take the small wins, you know, and actually, I think this is a big win because I thought there was a good chance that they could overturn it for sure.
- [06:40]
Tim Whitaker
I mean, you know, it's funny. I was talking to someone on the New Evangelicals podcast for an interview that I was doing who has different views than we have. They're more conservative, but they don't really understand Christian nationalism. And when I told them that there are legal groups like the Alliance Defending Freedom, who brought this case to the Supreme Court, who believe that they have an obligation to overturn a burger fell, he didn't really believe me. I was like, no, dude. Like, this is real. There are. There are Christian nationalist groups in America who are well funded, I mean, unlimited amounts of money, who are laser focused on overturning Obergefell and who want to overturn the 19th Amendment, women's suffrage. All right, And I feel like, April, you and I have been talking about both of these things for a long time, and people tend not to believe us. They think that it's so extreme until we give you guys the receipts. So, yes, I am certainly happy that the Supreme Court's Supreme Court declined to take up the case, but that does not mean that. That we let our foot up off the gas, because this Christian nationalist world is hell bent on getting these things done. Don't forget, they fought like hell for 50 years to get Roe v. Wade overturned. Okay? They are relentless. So if it's not this time around.
- [07:51]
April Ajoy
They will come back over. But we can breathe A sigh of relief.
- [07:54]
Tim Whitaker
We will. We will. Yeah. I don't mean to be a Debbie Downer. Right. Right from the start.
- [07:59]
April Ajoy
Get out of here. Get out of here. Stop raining on my parade Let me be happy.
- [08:02]
Tim Whitaker
We have to be realistic. Look, we celebrated last week. I had alcohol. The show, April. Okay. I made a song.
- [08:09]
Melinda Hale
You met.
- [08:10]
April Ajoy
You did a prank call. That wasn't a very good prank. You're not good at that. I know. We have a few super chats. Let's read those, and then let's get into our first story of the day.
- [08:20]
Tim Whitaker
Okay, Cool.
- [08:21]
April Ajoy
Can you read that? That's real small.
- [08:22]
Tim Whitaker
Okay. From Deanna Much. This is the most insane timeline to live in. This is why ao. Why so many millennials and Gen Z are stepping up to run in 2026. Absolutely. Stevie the Clown. Although Dems won big, but it's time for a new, viable party. Looking into the Working Families Party. Hell, yes. We interviewed Maurice, the national director of Working Families Party, last week on the show. I'm all in there. And then from Cinders. Thank you for this show. You guys are the best. Absolutely. Cinders, we love doing this. We love going live every week. April and I talk all the time about how much we love the show. We. We hope to kind of keep growing it. We hope to make it better and better over the coming months and years. So thanks for your support because it makes all of that possible.
- [09:04]
April Ajoy
Yes, absolutely. So you want to get into our first story of the day?
- [09:10]
Tim Whitaker
Yeah, I do, April, because I'm pissed. I'm pissed.
- [09:13]
April Ajoy
Yeah. Why are you pissed?
- [09:14]
Tim Whitaker
Because eight. Eight spineless Democrats went against their own party and voted to reopen the government. And I'm livid about it. I'm freaking. Because you know why? They got nothing. They got nothing. The Affordable Care act subsidies are not in play. They're not in play. And we know, thanks to. Where's this. Is it this headline? Yeah. Republicans demand tougher abortion restrictions to extend Obamacare funds. We got nothing. And what aggravates me the most? And if you're new to the show, please hear what I'm saying, because I have all the receipts in the world. These Democrats either do not know who or what they're dealing with, or they just don't care, or they're sold out to their big corporate donors. It's one of those three. Maybe it's a combination of all three. You do not compromise with Christian fascists. And here's why. Because Christian fascists do not want to compromise with you when you're dealing with People like Mike Johnson, for example, who believe that Democrats are demonic, that that they are influenced by demons, that they are satanic, that they hate America, they hate Christians. Those people are not looking to find common ground. And here's what's so malicious about all of this. People have often asked, I don't get it, how come the government won't fund SNAP benefits even though every government shutdown previous to this, we've been able to fund it? Because you have to understand the psyche of how Christian nationalists think. They think if you don't work, you don't eat. And they think that people on SNAP benefits are inherently lazy and are not entitled to these programs. Okay, now that's all not true. We covered this a couple weeks ago. Most people on SNAP benefits are either disabled children, the elderly, or they work okay. But for the Christian nationalist mindset, they want to tear down these government social safety nets. They have no problem ripping SNAP benefits away from Americans. They have no problem gutting these social safety nets. And so I just think that these Democrats, what they did was so egregious. I mean, it was for me, the final nail on the coffin why I'm so done with the party. Because even though evidence suggests that Chuck Schumer had nothing to do with this, the fact that people like him cannot control his own party and that these eight people went rogue says enough for me. And, and the reality IS After a 40 day shutdown of playing chicken, these eight Democrats caved. We got nothing for it. Affordable care subsidies are not on the table to be extended. Mike Johnson has said clearly he's not even confident if, if you know at all that they'll even bring it to a vote. So here's what happened, friends. The Senate Dems said, oh, look, we have a guarantee that we'll be able to vote on ACA subsidies. Well, that's all good until you realize that they can't control what the House does. So if the Senate even by some miracle passed these subsidies, the House under Mike Johnson would kill it. And if they didn't kill it, Trump would kill it. Like, it's ridiculous. They must think that we are stupid. So honestly, I am quite pissed off by what happened.
- [12:24]
April Ajoy
Yeah, I mean, my initial response was I was very frustrated and upset as well, because like you said, I don't think they got much out of it. I think they could have held out a little longer. They had momentum on their side. You know, they had these huge wins with the election last week, and I think most Americans were, were seeing through the lies from the Trump administration that this shutdown was because of Republicans refusing to provide health care and extend those subsidies for the Affordable Care Act.
- [12:56]
Caroline Levitt
Right.
- [12:57]
April Ajoy
They were winning in the messaging, in my opinion. But I want to push back a little. Play, play devil's advocate. Don't, don't cancel me. I even, like, this is the longest shutdown that we have had in the history of our country. And my, like, my mom, she volunteers at a food pantry every week, and she was just talking about how long the lines were. And I kept seeing all these stories of, you know, moms that were crying, like, there are plenty of single moms out there that are going without food so that their children can eat, and then their children are going hungry. And which I, as if I were in the Senate, like, there is a piece of me that thought there the Republicans might never cave. I honestly don't think Republicans care that Americans were, were hungry. At least Trump definitely didn't care for the fact that he would. He went to the Supreme Court to try to get out of having to pay SNAP benefits when other judges told him to. You know, and, and like, if you're looking at the hierarchy of needs, usually hunger is at, is, is above health care. Like, obviously, if you're bleeding out, health care becomes your number one need. But, like, I, I don't know. Like, I feel like they were at a, they were put between a rock and a hard place. And, and it was only eight Democrats. It's not like the whole party caved. Not, not that I'm a, a Democrat apologist, but I just don't, I just don't know that they would have, that the Republicans would have ever caved, ever. And then you could have just had an indefinite shutdown where more and more people go hungry. And I don't, I don't know. I just, I, I'm, my anger is much more focused on the Republicans who put us in this situation in the first place because they're refusing to extend those subsidies. And those subsidies are going to go out. They run out next month, and the American people are going to feel that pain. And in the long run, it might. Like, no one's going to look back on this and say it's the Democrats fault that took away this health care. That message was very clear that they did the shutdown because they wanted to extend those subsidies. So I don't know. I, I just, I, my, I'm, I'm still very frustrated. I think they should have not. I, I disagree that they caved, but I'm not like I don't share the intense anger that you have because I want to focus my anger on the, the people, the, the group that is the most to blame for this shutdown, and that is the Republicans.
- [15:32]
Tim Whitaker
Yeah, but I, I, I'm tired of these Democrats trying to be the adults in the room because it doesn't help anything.
- [15:37]
April Ajoy
Yeah.
- [15:37]
Tim Whitaker
Why are we capitulating to these bullies? Why the messaging should have been because.
- [15:41]
April Ajoy
People were going hungry.
- [15:43]
Tim Whitaker
So here's, here's, here's my issue. This is a broader issue for me. I watched what Biden did to Harris, giving her 100 days to become the next president. Okay. I watched how he held onto the throne and wouldn't let it go. I watched how establishment Dems have refused to take the online digital creator world seriously and actually get unified and talk about real messaging. I've watched Chuck Schumer do spineless things over and over again trying to, quote, unquote, stand up to Trump. I'm over the Democratic establishment, period. I am. Now, I'm not saying people have to agree with me on this. I'm probably an outlier here. Personally, though, I am done with them. I am done from top to bottom. I'm done all the way. I had nothing good to say about these establishment people, many of which, by the way, are bought off by big corporations, are bought off by big donors, and frankly, frankly, have not stood up to Trump nearly as much as they should have been. We are living in a time, as we're about to get into, where the sitting President of the United States has lied routinely about his association with one of the most high profile, prolific pedophiles in our lifetime. And somehow Dems, so many of them are playing softball or trying to play footsies with fascism. I mean, even think about one more example. Then I'll stop yapping about this. Think about the interview with Gavin Newsom and Charlie Kirk. Gavin Newsom has Charlie Kirk on his show. And by the way, I'm all about having these discussions, okay? The problem, though, is that Gavin Newsom didn't hold Charlie's feet to the fire. He capitulated on, on, on trans rights. He capitulated on trans women in sports. He completely bought in to the right wing talking point. And what was Charlie's response? He sent an email out to his followers saying, patriot, I made Gavin Newsom concede on every major point, proving that we are moving the party more to the right. These people are not here for good faith, anything. That's what I'm trying to get through to people's heads. Like, why are you even trying to shake hands? You should be a brick wall. You should be a brick freaking wall because these people want to, they want to destroy you.
- [17:44]
April Ajoy
I think that's true for some of them. But to say you're done with Democrats.
- [17:48]
Tim Whitaker
Like the establishment Democrat Party. Yes, I'm done with the establishment.
- [17:52]
April Ajoy
Okay, but, but the majority of Democrats voted no. And like, there are a lot of Democrats that are pissed at the ones that caved.
- [17:58]
Tim Whitaker
Well, I hope that they do something because I'm over it. And if I'm over it.
- [18:02]
April Ajoy
When you say you're over it, you're still going to vote Democrat against Trump.
- [18:05]
Tim Whitaker
I would. Well, of course.
- [18:07]
April Ajoy
Of course I'm going to vote for Harris. Just say I'm over it.
- [18:10]
Tim Whitaker
Like, what I'm saying is, what I'm saying is that I'm putting my efforts politically into other, other things. Like the party behind Zoran Mamdani, Working Families Party. That's where I'm headed personally.
- [18:20]
April Ajoy
I agree. Right. But he also won as a Democrat also, like.
- [18:24]
Tim Whitaker
Yeah, but my point though is that I'm looking for people in the Zorn Mamdani Working Families Party camp. I'm not looking for establishment Dems who are going to be spineless in the face of Christian fascism who refuse to understand what the hell they're actually dealing with. That's what I'm saying. I'm not yelling at you. I'm yelling just out to the, you.
- [18:42]
April Ajoy
Know, like, you're yelling at me.
- [18:44]
Tim Whitaker
Sorry. I'm not mad at you. I'm just passionate about this, you know.
- [18:47]
April Ajoy
No, I agree with you. Like, for the record, I don't think they should have caved, but I also don't think it's like, oh, these people are pure evil. Like, you're kind of making it out to be because people were starving. Like, I don't know, I put myself in that position. I literally thought like, I don't think Republicans would ever cave. And at one point, yeah, but people are starving, you know, like, yes, it is annoying that Democrats keep having to be the adults in the room, but someone has to be the frickin adult in the room. Yeah, like, you know, like, I just feel like, I just feel like it's complicated because of what Republicans, mainly Donald Trump has turned American politics into, into this giant circus. And I agree with you. I think we can be angry with the Democrats, but I only have so much energy to put forth and my energy is going to be put the majority of it towards anger at the true people that have caused this problem in the first place. And that's Republicans.
- [19:39]
Tim Whitaker
And I would say 90% of my anger is aimed at those people. But I'm pissed at these eight Democrats who reopen and we got nothing for it.
- [19:45]
April Ajoy
Right. That's the Democrats. But the, the way you talk about it, it's like all Democrats.
- [19:50]
Tim Whitaker
No, establishment Democrats. I'm done with the establishment Democratic Party. The people who, I'm looking, look, frankly, I'm looking for a true populist movement like we. April, you and I have been doing this for a few years. But as you look, as we look back throughout, throughout history, American history, we still don't have affordable health care. And we've had, the Dems have had super majorities in the House, in the, in Senate, you know, in the, in the Oval Office, et cetera. I don't think it's too much to ask at this point for some common sense laws and legislation that does things that many other countries have that is just like understood even by the most conservative parts of their government like affordable health care. It is the fact that we're even debating or that we're talking about subsidies expiring, it just shows like how behind we are on this.
- [20:38]
April Ajoy
Right. I think in the long run though. Yeah. I mean maybe there's a chance in the long run, like for I, for the record, I am pissed that those subsidies were not extended because that's going to hurt millions of Americans who are no longer going to be able to afford healthcare, including myself.
- [20:54]
Tim Whitaker
Yeah.
- [20:55]
April Ajoy
Right. So, but hope maybe if there's a silver lining in this, once a good chunk of Americans see how unaffordable our healthcare system is, which is already unaffordable even with the subsidies and health care is, is insanely expensive in this country that maybe, you know, if we get, if we survive these next few years of Trump, we get a Democrat in, hopefully someone like you know, from the Working Families Party, someone who's a little more progressive, then maybe we can actually fix our health care system because Republicans don't have a health care plan. And honestly in my opinion, what, you know, Obamacare, the Affordable Care act that was kind of putting a band aid on a, on a huge bull. Definitely, you know, it's not, not a long term solution. So maybe, you know, knock on wood, hopefully we can actually get maybe some universal health care single payer healthcare system like every other first world country has. And then in the long run maybe could be benefit. It does suck for the people in the meantime though, that are going to have to Go without health insurance. I mean, people are going to die.
- [21:59]
Tim Whitaker
Look, one of the problems. Yeah, totally. And one of the problems we have is that right now, the way it works, that our government is subsidizing private insurance. Right. So essentially these private insurers have an unlimited amount of money coming to them in the form of government subsidies. That is the problem. The problem is that we have a for profit health care industry that's essentially in bed with the government to get an unlimited amount of money to keep raising the cost of everything. We spend almost twice per capita on health care than other developed nations and our health care results are shit. I mean, this is just data. We are not even in like, in like, in like the top five regarding quality of care. Anyway, I know that we're not here to talk about healthcare and I'm glad that you and I had our first real disagreement on air. Are we still friends? Ah, dang it. I guess this show's breaking up.
- [22:45]
April Ajoy
Well, I think we actually mostly agree. I like, because I agree, generally speaking, that they should not have caved. Yeah, I just don't share the intense anger that you do about it.
- [22:55]
Tim Whitaker
Well, we need that. We need, we need the banter. Okay. We gotta give the audience something around here, so.
- [23:02]
April Ajoy
Right, right. It'd be boring if we just agreed on everything.
- [23:05]
Tim Whitaker
And comments are mixed. I see people siding with you. Some side with me. So look, I, I definitely, at this point, I think I'm just so fed up with everything that I'm like, I'm kind of willing to take some bigger risks and try some new approaches because the status quo in my mind, even on the quote, unquote Democratic side does not seem to be working, you know, and so I'm not saying that, that, that the Democratic Party as a whole should be like, not exist. I'm saying it has to be really reformed. And again, I don't mean it in the sense of like this kind of extremism in a negative way. But look at what MAGA did to the Republican Party, right? Look at who took over all of their, their, their head honcho positions, right? I mean, you go from Mitt Romney being your nominee to Trump. Yeah, we need that kind of movement on the other side. But an actual populist movement that's not bought off by AIPAC or by big corporations or by other big donors. We need a real populist movement. That's true. And I think if we're going to learn anything. Sorry to cut you off, but just last thought. If we're going to learn Anything about what Trump did. He did run on populist language. Right. He did tap into something people resonated with. Obviously he was bought off by billionaires because he is a billionaire, but we need something like that.
- [24:13]
April Ajoy
Yeah, no, I agree. I also just think our. The reality is we at this point have to rely on Democrats in order to stop maga. Like, Democrats are like, as much as the biggest, as much as the problem we have with them. They are the only group right now that actually could have the power to stop maga. Like, they're the one hurdle to this complete fascist takeover. So also, can I just say one thing that also pissed me off about the. Someone mentioned it in the chat. That pissed me off about the government. The funding bill that they all agreed to because it doesn't have the subsidies extended, which pissed me off. But also they snuck in there, the farm bill from 2018 that legalized a bunch of THC products federally legal. Like Delta 8, you've got like low dose THC products that. Anyway, it's going to hurt a lot of businesses that now rely on that. And I live in a state where marijuana is illegal, but Delta 8, obviously with the federal law, it is legal. And so now that's going to be illegal. And I'm a little mad about that. So is Rand Paul, by the way.
- [25:22]
Tim Whitaker
Oh, thank God.
- [25:24]
April Ajoy
Peter said it's going to hurt April. I was like, yes, I like legal things. And now anyway.
- [25:30]
Tim Whitaker
Well, that's because you're a rule follower.
- [25:32]
April Ajoy
I am a rule follower. I've never done it illegally, like, ever in my life.
- [25:36]
Tim Whitaker
Wow, I'm so proud of you.
- [25:38]
April Ajoy
I'm just. I'm so scared to get in trouble.
- [25:41]
Tim Whitaker
Oh, that's funny.
- [25:46]
Melinda Hale
Hey, everyone, this is Melinda Hale, the executive director of the New Evangelicals. Listen. Every day we hear from people who feel isolated, disillusioned, and hurt by a version of Christianity that has been hijacked by politics and nationalism. And yet they still long for a faith that is rooted in love, justice, and compassion. And that's why the new Evangelicals exist, because we believe there is a better path forward. We're creating resources, hosting conversations, and we're building communities for people who want to reclaim Christianity and stay rooted in the teachings of Jesus. But building a movement like this takes time. It takes energy, and it takes financial support. So if this podcast or our YouTube, our educational offerings or community space or anything that we've created has impacted you, would you consider becoming a donor? Even a gift of $5 makes a huge difference for small organizations like this your support helps us to continue empowering people to put their faith into action by rejecting Christian nationalism and and to live in a way that shows people how to truly love our neighbors. Together. I know that we could build something beautiful. So visit thenewevangelicals.com support to give today. You can find the link right in our show. Notes thank you for standing with us.
- [26:59]
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- [27:27]
Donald Trump (audio clips)
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- [27:48]
April Ajoy
Call of Duty Black Ops 7 available now. Rated M for Mature.
- [27:55]
Tim Whitaker
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- [28:27]
Sponsor/Advertisement Voice
I live in Point Pleasant, New Jersey and I'm a proud monthly supporter of T and E. I grew up in the evangelical community and the church was very much a part of my identity. It is still painful to have lost that community, and even more painful to see how the evangelical movement has become defined by political agendas and warped theology. This is one of the reasons why I really admire Tim's work in the New Evangelicals. He has the ability to kind of expose these really unsettling issues and address his adversaries with love, candor and an open mind. I think I really have to say I was taken when he went out to the Asbury Revival and reported from there. That was a moment where I decided that this is someone with integrity that I wanted to support. I also met Tim up in person at a Quaker meeting in North Jersey and what can I say, deep respect for a fellow Jersey boy who really showed humanity in a very small setting. Not just Large ones. Tim, thanks for being the loving hand and compassionate heart of Christ in a world of angry tongues and warped minds. Peace.
- [29:59]
Tim Whitaker
Hey, friends, if you're just joining the stream, thanks so much for being here. Please make sure to give this video or this stream a like subscribe to our YouTube channel. If you're just joining on substack. Hello and welcome. We are the Tim and April Show. We are now going live, also on Lincoln Square Media. We are two former Christian nationalists now exposing what's actually going on behind the scenes and what's animating the Trump Regiment. The organization that produces this show is called the New Evangelicals. It's an organization I founded actually almost five years ago in December, and it's a nonprofit, 501C3, committed to helping you be empowered to reject Christian nationalism and to help you find a better path forward in your faith. You can go to thenewevangelicals.com join our free community, see our other shows like the the New Evangelicals Podcast, which I host, and also Advocacy Hour, which our executive director, Melinda Hale and board president host. So we have a whole plethora of options and you're more than welcome to join. Everything we offer is totally free with no paywalls. So, yeah, thanks for being here.
- [30:58]
April Ajoy
Okay, you want to catch up on Super Chats real quick?
- [31:00]
Tim Whitaker
Oh, yeah. Okay, fine. Super Chats. Am I reading these?
- [31:05]
April Ajoy
I think I can read some. I'll make my screen bigger.
- [31:07]
Tim Whitaker
Can you read? Oh, this is a good one.
- [31:10]
April Ajoy
Dawson Ballard said, george Soros told me to give you this. Jk. Love you guys and your work. Thank you, Dawson. And thank you, George.
- [31:18]
Tim Whitaker
Kylie Fisher.
- [31:18]
April Ajoy
Kylie Fisher says the one upside is we may now get the files released. Now that is true. We're about to get to that. We're getting that next Democrats did something good. Tim Dulk. Dogan said, pissed about Dim's caving. But on these files releasing nothing bad can happen. It can go link only good happened.
- [31:34]
Melinda Hale
Yes.
- [31:35]
Tim Whitaker
Wait, do I have that? Do I have that?
- [31:36]
April Ajoy
We should have it. We had it last week.
- [31:39]
Tim Whitaker
It didn't work.
- [31:41]
April Ajoy
No, it didn't. Wow, what a letdown.
- [31:44]
Tim Whitaker
I got Tesla. Wait, I got it. It must have been. Wait, I do have it. Hold on. Oh, no, I don't have it. I'll have to add it back in.
- [31:53]
April Ajoy
Nothing bad can happen. It can only good happen.
- [31:56]
Tim Whitaker
I'll find it somewhere. It's somewhere in my brain.
- [32:00]
April Ajoy
Doesn't matter. Do you have more? Let's just get through the Super Chat.
- [32:02]
Tim Whitaker
I'm sorry.
- [32:02]
April Ajoy
I'm sorry. It's Epstein.
- [32:03]
Tim Whitaker
Okay, okay.
- [32:04]
April Ajoy
Get to the juice. Okay. Deanna Mutch said we still have to operate in this two party system until we can chain things, change things. Yes, that is true. I agree. And that you read that one.
- [32:14]
Tim Whitaker
That's too small for you, the artsy muse. Love you guys. Insisting that the Bible is infallible effectively tethers us to the ancient world. Mindset. Decanonizing. Seems like a good change. Yeah, that's a possibility. I recommend the new Evangelicals podcast for all of your theology nerd needs. I talk to all kinds of biblical scholars on that show. Charlie. I'm pissed at the 8Ds too, because they just told ours that they will always cave. We are pissed at ours too, but it's time for these old Fs to go. Politics is not how it once was and we need fighters. I tend to agree with Charlie's assessment, so I will double like that. Thank you, Charlie.
- [32:46]
April Ajoy
I agree with it because I do.
- [32:51]
Tim Whitaker
I love doing this show with you. And last one, Stevie Clown. I agree. Dems right now can stop MAGA April, but. And we need to get the New Working Families Party movement in momentum. Not like the Bernie campaign. Yeah, for sure.
- [33:03]
April Ajoy
I agree. I agree.
- [33:05]
Tim Whitaker
Whoo. Are we going?
- [33:07]
April Ajoy
Yeah.
- [33:07]
Tim Whitaker
Okay.
- [33:08]
April Ajoy
Yeah, let's do this. Okay. So yesterday, a bombshell. Bombshell. And that might be putting it lightly. So Democrats on the oversight committee released thousands of Jeffrey Epstein emails. And from my understanding, because I looked it up, this, these came from a subpoena that was. That was sent out and that they received from Epstein's estate back in August of this year. And I would imagine it took time to read through the 20 plus thousand emails and redact certain information and. But they released those yesterday in anticipation of the House coming back from the shutdown. Republicans are saying, oh, they're playing games and political. Because they're trying to take away from the great Republican achievement of opening the government back up. And honestly maybe fine with me. But I'm not mad about it.
- [34:01]
Tim Whitaker
Bravo.
- [34:01]
April Ajoy
I'm not mad about it.
- [34:03]
Tim Whitaker
Bravo.
- [34:04]
April Ajoy
Yeah, so, yeah, there's lots to get into. Yeah. So we're going to get to the emails and like there's a lot, like I. We're not even going to be able to read all of them because there's little caveats here and there about all sorts of people Trump mentioned multiple. Multiple times.
- [34:20]
Tim Whitaker
Yep, yep.
- [34:22]
April Ajoy
But leading up to this, because there's obviously the defense from certain MAGA people has begun. And before we get to that, we just want to remind you who Donald Trump is who he has been historically outside of Epstein, right. Outside of these emails, you know, because for someone to be like, oh, he would never, would he never, would he never. So do you want to go through that list?
- [34:52]
Tim Whitaker
Here's what I did. I compiled a list of, I think, almost all, if not everyone of Trump's, either allegations from, from women or court cases that we have. I'm going to read the whole thing. It's a few minutes. There's a lot here. I also will give you guys a trigger warning. I'm not going to censor anything. So there will be talks of sexual assault. But I just think it's really important to really hear the full, you know, sheet, the full rap sheet, so to speak, of accusations. Now, to be clear, Trump denies all of these things as far as I'm aware. And so keep that in mind as we go forward. But I want to set the stage as we talk about the Epstein files, just of the, of how many accusations there are. So here we go. Buckle up. In the early 1980s, we have Jessica Leeds. She claims that Trump groped her on an airplane. Quote, he was like an octopus. His hands were everywhere. In the late 1980s, Ivana Trump in a divorce deposition described an incident as rape. Later said she didn't mean it literally. Now, from the 1990s to 1999, we have Christina or Kristen Anderson at New York City's China Club that she says Trump reached up her skirt and touched her vagina through her underwear. 1992 through 1993. Jill Harth says that Trump pushed her against a wall, groped her, put hands under her dress. Her lawsuit reference, attempted rape. Stacey Williams, former model, says that Trump groped her while Jeffrey Epstein watched E. Jean Carroll rape allegation in a dressing room. And two juries found Trump liable for sexual abuse and defamation. Lisa Boyne says Trump made models walk on a table while he looked up their skirts, commenting on their bodies. Temple Taggart, Miss Utah, says Trump kissed her on the lips without consent twice. Miss Teen USA contestants, I'm going to repeat that. Miss Teen USA contestants says that Trump walked into dressing rooms While girls ages 15 through 19 were nude or undressed. Kathy Heller at Mar A Lago says he forcibly kissed her during a Mother's Day event. Amy Doris says at the US Open, allegedly he forcibly kissed her and gripped her breasts, buttocks and body. And then Karina Virginia says Trump grabbed her breast while waiting for a car after the US Open. That's the 90s. Let's go to the 2000s. Bridget Sullivan, Miss USA says he walked unannounced into dressing rooms when contestants were naked. Tasha Dixon says Trump entered the dressing room while women were, quote, half naked, changing into bikinis. Karen Johnson, I might have read her already at a New Year's Eve party. Says he grabbed her, pulled her behind a tapestry. Tapestry. And forcibly kissed her. Mindy Milgivere says Trump grabbed her butt at Mar a Lago during a concert. Then, of course, we have the infamous Access Hollywood tape where he boasts about grabbing women by the genitals. No, I did not pull that. I mean, I have it. I can find it while we're talking that he did this without consent. Quote, when you're a star, they let you do it. In 2005, on a Howard Stern interview, he bragged repeatedly about walking into Miss USA slash Miss Universe dressing rooms while contestants were nude. In 2005, Natasha Stanief says he pushed her against the wall and forcibly kissed her at Mar a Lago. Rachel Crook says he kissed her on the mouth without consent. At Trump Tower. Jennifer Murphy says he unexpectedly pulled her and kissed her after a job interview. Stormy Daniels says she had a sexual encounter with Trump while he was married. Of course, Trump denies it. In 2024, Trump was convicted of falsifying business records tied to a hush money payment given to Stormy Daniels. Ninny Lakes Laxonen, former Miss Finland, says he groped her butt before a TV appearance. Samantha Holvey, Ms. USA, says Trump inspected contestants likely were a piece of meat entering dressing rooms. Jessica Drake says Trump kissed her without consent and later asked how much when she rejected advances. Summer Zervos, the Apprentice says he groped her and kissed her aggressively. Later sues him for defamation. All right, 2020 tens to present. Cassandra series says Trump repeatedly grabbed her butt and invited her to his to his hotel room during Miss usa. Alva Johnson, former campaign staffer, says he forcibly kissed her during the 2016 campaign. Of course, we have the Carol verdicts 1 and 2 and Stacey Williams allegations publicly resurfaces, which confirms the groping allegations and provides a postcard that she says Trump sent her. And then, of course, the Stormy Daniels criminal case, which we mentioned. And then also we have sexual comments about his own daughter, repeated remarks over decades about her body and attractiveness, and the famous line, if Ivanka weren't my daughter, I'd be dating her.
- [39:33]
April Ajoy
Yes, I do think at some point we should play the Access Hollywood tape, because I think hearing those words out of Donald Trump's mouth, like, I just feel like we all need a refresher. Of who this is and how white evangelicals, Christian nationalists defeated, defended this as locker room talk.
- [39:55]
Tim Whitaker
While you're doing it, I'll. While you're talking, I can find it.
- [39:59]
April Ajoy
Okay. So. So yeah. Other things. Don't forget Donald Trump wrote Jeffrey Epstein a. Drew him a birthday wish. That was a naked. What they initially reported as a naked woman, but when you look at it, it definitely looks younger.
- [40:20]
Tim Whitaker
I had that as well.
- [40:21]
April Ajoy
Let me grab from the drawing.
- [40:22]
Tim Whitaker
Sorry, I'm doing a lot of things at one time.
- [40:24]
April Ajoy
Apologies. I know that is a lot. So Donald Trump, don't forget. This is from Jeffrey Epstein's. I think it was his 50th birthday book. And Donald Trump drew him this naked person, woman, child. And it's a conversation between Donald and Jeffrey. And then at the bottom, I can't read it. It's too blurry. But it's something about wonderful secrets.
- [40:46]
Tim Whitaker
It's just wild. Yeah, I think I have the tape.
- [40:51]
April Ajoy
You have it?
- [40:51]
Tim Whitaker
I think so. I'm just testing it real quick. Hang tight.
- [40:54]
April Ajoy
Okay.
- [40:54]
Tim Whitaker
Sure it's the right one here?
- [40:57]
April Ajoy
Yeah, this is okay. I just want to. I just think we all need a refresher of. This is Donald Trump talking to the guy from Access Hollywood. I don't remember his name. This was like an off mic moment. Like it was on the mic, but they didn't know their mics were on.
- [41:12]
Tim Whitaker
Again, very graphic content here. Just a lot of trigger warnings. But again, I agree. April, we need to. We can't become numb or let this live like in our memory. We have to be able to hear that as we prep for what we're talking about today. So here we go.
- [41:26]
Donald Trump (audio clips)
Moved on her and I failed. I'll admit it. I did try. And her. She was married.
- [41:30]
Tim Whitaker
Huge news there.
- [41:31]
Donald Trump (audio clips)
Oh, no, Nancy, no, this was. And I moved on her very heavily. In fact, I took her out furniture shopping. She wanted to get some furniture. I said, I'll show you where they have some nice furniture. I took out furniture. I moved on her like a bitch, but I couldn't get there. And she was married. And all of a sudden I see her. She's now got the big pony tits and everything. She's totally changed her look. I gotta use some Tic Tacs just in case I start kissing her. You know, I'm automatically attracted to beautiful. I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. Just kid. I don't even know. And when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything, whatever you want. Grab them by the I can do anything.
- [42:08]
Tim Whitaker
Pull the hat. Hello.
- [42:15]
Donald Trump (audio clips)
How are you?
- [42:16]
April Ajoy
That was Donald Trump talking to Billy. I remember when that came out, leading up to the 2016 election, and I thought for sure he was done. I said, like, that was. I was like, there's no way my fellow evangelicals at the time could find. Could get past that and vote for him.
- [42:40]
Tim Whitaker
It was. I really thought for a minute, oh, my God, we might. From, like our own third party. Because there's no way that my pastor, that. The people who raised me in Sunday school, who taught me about the importance of sexual purity, who taught me the importance that my moral standing with God is tied to my actions in bed. Right. There's no way that those people would tell me I have to vote for a guy who just said that on a hot mic. And, boy, was I freaking wrong, because here we are.
- [43:09]
April Ajoy
Yeah, I know. So, so also, do you have the video, too, of him talking about Ghislaine Maxwell when she was first convicted?
- [43:17]
Tim Whitaker
Sure. You want to go there? I could pull that.
- [43:20]
April Ajoy
Yeah. If you're unfamiliar, she was like, Jeffrey Epstein's partner in crime. She's currently serving time for child sex trafficking.
- [43:30]
Tim Whitaker
Yeah. This is five years ago. Just for the, for the timeline for folks to be able to have that. Okay, here we go.
- [43:39]
Donald Trump (audio clips)
Just.
- [43:39]
Tim Whitaker
Lane Maxwell is in prison, and so a lot of people want to know if she's going to turn in powerful people. I know you talk in the past about Prince Andrew and you criticized Bill Clinton's behavior. I'm wondering, do you feel that she's going to turn in powerful men? How do you see that working out?
- [43:56]
Donald Trump (audio clips)
I don't know. I haven't really been following it too much. I just wish her well, Frankly, I've met her numerous times over the years, especially since I lived in Palm beach, and I guess they lived in Palm beach, but I wish her well, whatever it is. I don't know the situation with Prince Andrew. Just don't know. Not aware of it.
- [44:15]
April Ajoy
I wish.
- [44:15]
Tim Whitaker
Well, to be clear, let's just be truth tellers here. This is a convicted child sex trafficker. Okay? And the sitting President says, I wish her well. And again, where are the conservative Christians who told me that I have to vote for Trump because he's saving kids? Because the deep state full of Democrats is trafficking children? Like, where are those people? They were nowhere to be found. And so far, as of this recording, as of this live, they are still nowhere to be found. We have checked on the. On the accounts of people who, you know, were all about voting for Trump. On those good old family values. They have not said anything yet as of this moment.
- [44:58]
April Ajoy
I went and looked. I went and looked on their feeds. Like, what are they saying? Nothing about this. Okay, so do we want to get to the emails now? Let's just read some of these emails. You've got some images. And then I'm going to read a few other ones that we don't have images of, but are. Have been reported on.
- [45:14]
Tim Whitaker
So we got a few here. I mean, the big one that. That is infamous, that has kind of made headlines is. Is. Let's see here it is. Is Epstein essentially saying that Trump is not. Is the dog that has embarked. So this is email, I think, to. To Maxwell. I want you to realize that the dog that has embarked is Trump victim. Spent hours at my house with him. He has never once been mentioned. Police chief, etc. I'm 75% there. That's pretty intense to call Trump.
- [45:46]
April Ajoy
I mean, it sounds like, to me, it sounds like he's saying Trump is the guy that just, like, has kept his mouth shut.
- [45:53]
Tim Whitaker
Yeah, exactly, exactly. The other one that I thought was important was Trump said he asked me to resign. Never a member ever. Of course, he knew about the girls as he asked Ghislaine to stop. Is that how you say her name? I always mispronounce her.
- [46:07]
April Ajoy
I think it's Ghislaine, but I've heard people say it different ways.
- [46:10]
Tim Whitaker
Yeah. Okay. So again, like, it's very. And there are 20,000 emails. More and more are coming out, but it's very obvious that Trump, at a minimum, knew about the girls, according to Epstein. And then another one from Michael Wolf.
- [46:23]
April Ajoy
Yeah, Between Michael Wolfe and Jeffrey Epstein.
- [46:25]
Tim Whitaker
Yeah. I think you should let him. Trump, hang himself. If he says he hasn't been on the plane or to the house, then that gives you a valuable PR and political currency. You can hang him in a way that potentially generates a positive benefit for you. Or if it really looks like he could win, you could save him generating a debt. Of course, it is possible that when asked, he'll say Jeffrey is a great guy and has gotten a raw deal and is a victim of political correctness, which is to be outlawed in a Trump regime. I mean, what this. This at a minimum shows that Trump is compromised or was compromised. At a minimum, it shows that they had to leverage over a sitting President of the United States of America and that they were willing to use it if need be.
- [47:06]
April Ajoy
Mm.
- [47:07]
Tim Whitaker
It's wild. It's wild.
- [47:11]
April Ajoy
Yeah. Matt in the comments says the dog that didn't bark is a Sherlock Holmes reference. Holmes identifies the criminal as being close to the victim because the dog didn't bark when the criminal entered the house to kill him.
- [47:22]
Tim Whitaker
Okay, noted.
- [47:24]
April Ajoy
Interesting. I didn't know that.
- [47:25]
Tim Whitaker
And then the last one I'll read here, it's just about from Epstein to Kathy rumler. This is 823 2018. You see, I know how dirty Donald is. My guess is that non lawyers, New York biz people have no idea what it means to have your fixture flip. So you know, it was very clear, very clear that Epstein knew that Trump had some real skeletons in his closet. And again, April, you and I have been saying this. Many people have been pointing this out and somehow it doesn't stick to him. It's unbelievable.
- [47:56]
April Ajoy
Okay, I'm going to read you a few more emails, okay, because these are some that I copy and pasted. This is from an ABC article about the emails. So on February 8, 2017, Epstein was emailing Larry Summers, who was the Treasury Secretary under President Bill Clinton and the former President of Harvard, said, so this is from Epstein, right, quote, recall, I've told you I have met some very bad people. None as bad as Trump, not one decent cell in his body. So yes, dangerous.
- [48:34]
Tim Whitaker
Imagine a pedophile calling someone else a bad person. Like the worst.
- [48:39]
Sponsor/Advertisement Voice
Wow.
- [48:42]
April Ajoy
December 3, 2018. This is an exchange over imessage between Epstein and someone whose name is redacted. Some someone redacted name said quote, it will all blow over. They're just really trying to take down Trump and doing whatever they can to do that. And then Epstein responded, yes, thanks. It's wild because I am the one able to take him down.
- [49:07]
Tim Whitaker
I, it's, it's.
- [49:11]
April Ajoy
I have another one. In an exchange with Thomas, who was a New York Times reporter, Epstein sent a link to a feature story about a woman that Epstein claimed had been his girlfriend who later dated Trump. Epstein said, quote, My 20 year old girlfriend in 93 that after two years I gave to Donald.
- [49:35]
Tim Whitaker
I, I, I just don't know. I don't understand how conservative Christians look at this and what lies they tell themselves that Trump is somehow innocent in all of this. Even if Trump didn't himself sexually abuse a child, he certainly knew about it. These at a minimum are very clear. And that's, that's on the, that's on like the minimum side, right? Some of these letters we have that weird birthday card thing clearly. And Trump lies so much. He lies about everything. I just spend five or six minutes reading all the different people accusing him of Sexual assault. It's a laundry list. It's a freaking laundry list. Why do we believe what Trump says about this? Why?
- [50:29]
April Ajoy
Okay. And more emails to the reporter. Epstein wrote to Thomas, who is a New York Times reporter at the time, said, quote, would you like photos of Donald and girls in bikinis in my kitchen? Thomas replied, yes. In another email, Epstein suggested that reporters, quote, ask my houseman about Donald almost walking through the door, leaving his nose print on the glass as young women were swimming in the pool. And he was so focused, he walked straight into the door.
- [51:00]
Tim Whitaker
Of course, I'm not surprised. We have accusations of him at Miss Teen USA watching teenagers undress. There's a pattern here. There's a pattern.
- [51:10]
April Ajoy
It is a pattern. It's not. It should not. Based on Donald Trump's history, none of these emails should be surprising based on the list. That list that you read out earlier, that's all public knowledge.
- [51:21]
Tim Whitaker
Yes.
- [51:22]
April Ajoy
Those are all people that accused Trump year in and like in the past several, like decades, like there's always been some sort of allegations against Trump. It's kind of this like on like well known secret.
- [51:36]
Tim Whitaker
Yeah, yeah. Again, is this, is this like the Christian regime that pastors are telling you, like, is voting for, you know, you're voting for biblical values. That that's why so many of us who grew up in this world left. Like, this was the beginning of like, whoa, something is wrong. And to this, to this day, there are pastors, there are leaders, there are evangelical teachers who insist that Trump is being used by God to restore America back to its godly Christian heritage. The man is BFFs with a pedophile, at a minimum, knew his friend was a pedophile, at the worst, participated in those actions, and has a laundry list of accusations spanning decades from multiple women with very similar stories. I do not believe that somehow they were all pulled into a room to get their stories straight, to start dropping these bombs. I mean, you heard us. As I read the accusations, very similar, hand up, skirt forcibly kissing, watching them undress. There's a pattern here, a clear as day pattern. And somehow, somehow you're all these suckies of the world. Your Matt Walsh's of the world are like, this is a good. This man is restoring America back to its biblical Judeo Christian heritage. Are you kidding me?
- [52:55]
April Ajoy
I know. And allegedly some of these emails allude to Donald Trump possibly spending Thanksgiving with Jeffrey Epstein in 2017. There's an exchange where someone asked him, who are you spending Thanksgiving with? He says, Eva, who I guess was his girlfriend at the time said, who else is down there? And Epstein replies. David Faisal Hansen, Trump. It was in 2017. And Donald Trump has said that he basically stopped being friends with Jeffrey Epstein in, like, the 2000s. I think is, is what his story is.
- [53:30]
Tim Whitaker
Trump lied. Oh, I can't believe that. There's no way not. Trump would never lie.
- [53:37]
April Ajoy
How.
- [53:37]
Tim Whitaker
And I, I don't want to sound, look, I don't want to sound, I don't want to sound like, pretentious, but, but how, how either willfully ignorant or just downright stupid do you have to be to think that Trump and his regime of an administration are telling the American people the truth about God damn anything like, honestly, Honestly, how gullible do you have to be? How, how brainwashed do you have to be to believe that Trump is the one saving America? As he brings in the most billionaires ever in a sitting presidential cabinet, as he lies about so many things like, as inflation is up, you have less, Your dollar has less spending power, corporate profits are through the roof, billionaires are richer than ever. And somehow you believe that Trump is saving your ass. You believe that Trump is going to give you a $2,000 check because of the tariffs. You believe that? You got to be kidding me. Like, you need cold water thrown on your face. You have to wait, get someone, give them a smelling salt, wake the hell up. You're being conned.
- [54:41]
April Ajoy
Yeah, yeah. But let's see what Caroline Levitt had to say about this when they asked her. Because, I mean, these emails are damning. They're, they're, they're kind of indefensible, in my opinion. So let's see how she spun this in a press conference.
- [54:57]
Tim Whitaker
And as we know, Caroline always prays before she goes out. So she always prays, thanking Jesus for the opportunity to, you know, represent him on camera.
- [55:06]
April Ajoy
Interesting, though, in this video, she's not wearing her cross necklace.
- [55:09]
Tim Whitaker
I noticed that maybe. Okay, here we go. The White House press briefing, which is currently underway. Let's listen in.
- [55:22]
Caroline Levitt
The fact that President Trump did nothing wrong. And what President Trump has always said is that he was from Palm beach and so was Jeffrey Epstein. Jeffrey Epstein was a member at Mar A Lago until President Trump kicked him out because Jeffrey Epstein was a pedophile and he was a creep. In this email, you refer to with the name of a victim that was unredacted now and has since been reported on in this room. So I will go ahead and say it. Virginia Guthrey. And it was CBS's own reporting Weija that recently wrote that Ms. Guthrey maintained, and God rest her soul, that she maintained that there was nothing inappropriate she ever witnessed, that President Trump was always extremely professional and friendly to her. And so I think it's a question worth asking the Democrat Party, and you should all go ask them after this briefing, of why they chose to redact that name of a victim who has already publicly made statements about her relationship with Jeffrey Epstein, is and is unfortunately no longer with us. Mary, thank you.
- [56:18]
April Ajoy
Two questions on this.
- [56:20]
Melinda Hale
In the interest of transparency, why not just go ahead, release the full files.
- [56:24]
Tim Whitaker
On Epstein, get this all over with?
- [56:26]
Caroline Levitt
We have. This administration has done more with respect to transparency when it comes to Jeffrey Epstein than any administration ever. In fact, this administration, the Department of Justice, has turned over tens of thousands, thousands of documents to the American people. We are cooperating and showing support for the House Oversight Committee. That's part of the reason you are seeing these documents that were released today because of the House Oversight Committees and Republicans efforts to get these out to the public.
- [56:54]
Tim Whitaker
Can't keep your story straight. On one hand, the Democrats. This is an intentional hoax and a play by the Democrats to release these files. But now, oh, no, no. The House Committee, overseen by Republicans, they released the files. We're cooperating. Like, again, you. How dumb does she think the American people are to believe this?
- [57:14]
April Ajoy
Yeah, I don't know. Now, it is true that Virginia Giuffre has historically said that she never saw Donald Trump do something wrong and they released the unredacted email that says Virginia. So you can assume the shit they're talking about Virginia. But I don't understand why they think that somehow clears Trump from these damning emails. Like, even if he spent time with her and was totally kind and did nothing with her, he was aware of minimum being a victim of Epstein, like, at Epstein's house, I'm assuming, based on the emails. I don't know. It's a weird.
- [57:54]
Sponsor/Advertisement Voice
It's.
- [57:55]
April Ajoy
I don't. I don't, by the way, defense. So you just have to, like, do all these twists and make stuff up.
- [58:00]
Tim Whitaker
And not forget, Mike Johnson intentionally did not swear in. Who's the representative from Arizona.
- [58:06]
April Ajoy
From Arizona.
- [58:06]
Tim Whitaker
Yeah. He intentionally did not swear her in for months to delay the vote to release the Epstein files. Like, like, she's just. She is lying. Every week, April, we get on this show, and I say the same thing. They lie. They lie. They lie. She is lying blatantly. You know, if. If there is, as some Christians believe, that when you die, eventually God will judge you for the things that you did on Earth. I hope that is true. So Caroline and Trump and this MAGA regime gets judged by God and gets held accountable for their wickedness on earth. Like there's just you are defending a man again at a minimum, who was BFFs with a pedophile and knew about it. And wait till you guys hear about about Maxwell's recent prison treatment which only is only makes it even more damn.
- [58:56]
April Ajoy
Oh my God.
- [58:56]
Tim Whitaker
You know.
- [58:56]
April Ajoy
So anyway, we have so much to get through foreign.
- [59:02]
Melinda Hale
Hey everyone, Melinda Hale here, Executive Director of the New Evangelicals. Thanks for listening to our podcast. I just wanted to take a minute to personally invite you to be a part of our community. At tne, we're creating space for people of faith who care about justice, compassion and living out the teachings of Jesus in real tangible ways. As a nonprofit organization, not only do we offer thought provoking podcasts, but on our new app and online platform TNE Connect, we offer free educational resources, additional content and a space to connect with like minded people for meaningful conversations and encouragement. So if what we're doing has been helpful to you, if you've learned something, felt, seen or been challenged to grow, head over to theneweevangelicals.com to join TNE Connect or make a donation. Your support means the world to us. Thanks for being a part of the movement.
- [59:49]
Tim Whitaker
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- [60:16]
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- [61:10]
Tim Whitaker
All right, I'll keep going with this.
- [61:12]
April Ajoy
Yeah, yeah, keep going.
- [61:13]
Caroline Levitt
Administration also moved. The Department of Justice also moved to unseal grand jury testimony, which we know, unfortunately, a judge declined those. Those requests. So this administration has done more than any. And it just shows how this is truly a manufactured hoax by the Democrat Party. For now, they're talking about it all of a sudden because President Trump is in the Oval Office. But when Joe Biden was sitting in there, the Democrats never brought this up. This wasn't an issue that they cared about, because they actually don't care about the victims in these cases. They care about trying to score political points against President Trump.
- [61:46]
Tim Whitaker
I did fact check this. I was so curious. I'm like, okay, so what actually happened here? I have a. I have a screenshot, and let me pull it up. Give me one sec. I'm just gonna read this. This is from Grok. This is Twitter's AI. So if anyone's biased, it's Grok. Here's what it says. Joe Biden as president, could not unilaterally, unilaterally release the Epstein files due to legal and procedural constraints. The Epstein files, which include grand jury testimony, investigative records, and other sensitive materials, are subject to strict federal and state laws governing sealed documents, particularly those involving minors or ongoing investigations. And then it gives five major reasons why. Grand jury secrecy, victim privacy and content. No political authority to override the Department of Justice, lack of political incentive, ongoing legal process. It concludes. It essentially says that the broader Epstein files remained under seal due to the reasons above. And any release would have required navigating complex legal hurdles, which the Biden administration did not aggressively pursue. Critics argue this was a missed opportunity. But supporters note Biden's restraint avoided political. Avoided politicizing a sensitive case. So, again, it's. It's not like Joe Biden could have just waved a magic wand and boom, it was a huge thing to do. And we know if he did that, what would they be saying? Oh, look how much Joe Biden hates Trump going after him on this Epstein hoax. Either way, it's the same result.
- [63:14]
April Ajoy
Already they were blaming Biden for going after Trump for the Eugene Carroll case, which had nothing to do with Biden. Same thing with, like, the Insurrection cases, like, and I do think Joe Biden was genuinely trying to reach across the aisle and bring both sides together. And he didn't want to do what would look like a political move. So I get it. Like, obviously, in hindsight. Hindsight's 20 20. Maybe he wishes he would have done that now, but it is also. It's just so distant. Like, here's my thing. If you have nothing to hide, why are you calling this a hoax? Why not just release it? If there's nothing in there? That. If Trump's so innocent and there's nothing in there that would. Would say anything bad about him, that would make him look bad, then just release it. Like, lay this all to rest. Because they're also. They're always like, well, Bill Clinton's in there.
- [64:09]
Tim Whitaker
I'm like, great, release it, please.
- [64:12]
April Ajoy
Arrest Bill Clinton, too. I don't care.
- [64:14]
Tim Whitaker
Right. I don't care what letters in front of your name. If you're in the files for doing bad stuff, you should be brought to justice.
- [64:22]
April Ajoy
Yeah, Yeah.
- [64:23]
Tim Whitaker
I don't care who the hell it is. I don't care. I don't freaking care. Yeah, but you're totally right, April. Obviously, there's a smoking gun here. Trump's been trying to bury it since. Since Pam Bondi leaked that to Trump that he was in the files, Right?
- [64:39]
April Ajoy
Like, we saw the 180, like, their behavior. So, like, the private, like, secrecy meetings with Lower Lauren Boebert, trying to get her to change her vote. Like, no, that actually shows we are transparent.
- [64:54]
Tim Whitaker
What.
- [64:55]
April Ajoy
What are you talking about?
- [64:56]
Tim Whitaker
It's a hoax, but also we're transparent.
- [64:59]
April Ajoy
I was talking to Beecher, my spouse, about it earlier, and they were like, it's kind of like if you're driving across down the road, right, and you see a car on the side of the road that's on fire, what do you think? Do you think something suspicious is going on? I was like, no, I probably think an engine just blew up and it's on fire. I'm not really that suspicious. But she's like, great. What if you're driving down the road and you see a car on fire on the side of the road and someone's in front of it with the sign that says, there is no fire, nothing to see here, then do you think something suspicious is going on? Like, yeah. Then I'm like, oh, someone caused that fire.
- [65:32]
Tim Whitaker
Exactly. Move along. Nothing to see. All right, let's finish.
- [65:37]
April Ajoy
Said it in the. In the comment. Yeah, there you go. I got you accredited you.
- [65:40]
Tim Whitaker
There you go. Be sure you're in the chat. All right, let's finish up. Her little answer to this.
- [65:47]
April Ajoy
Okay.
- [65:49]
Caroline Levitt
As we have of course, seen with this government shutdown and this entire thing, again, it's not a coincidence to the American people at home. There are no coincidences in Washington, D.C. and it is not a coincidence that the Democrats leaked these emails to the fake news this morning ahead of Republicans reopening the government. This is another distraction campaign by the Democrat in the liberal media. And it's why I'm being asked questions about Epstein instead of the government reopening because of Republicans and President Trump, Reagan and transparency. Caroline, why are White House officials then.
- [66:21]
April Ajoy
Meeting with Representative Boebert in an effort to. To try and get her to not.
- [66:25]
Melinda Hale
Sign this petition calling for the release of the files?
- [66:28]
Caroline Levitt
Doesn't it show transparency that members of the Trump administration are willing to brief members of Congress whenever they please? Doesn't that show our level of transparency? Doesn't that show the level of transparency when we are willing to sit down with members of Congress and address their concerns? That is. That's a defining factor of transparency. Having discussions. Having discussions with members of Congress about various issues. And I'm not going to detail conversations that took place in the Situation Room in the press.
- [66:56]
April Ajoy
Doesn't that show our transparency? And also, I'm not going to tell you about what was said.
- [67:00]
Tim Whitaker
Right. Of course not. Let's read it. Let's read a few super chats as we are behind on this. Let me see what we got here. I think we started here. From what BE thinks I deconstructed the belief in hell, thankfully, with people like Pervert Trump and Lying Mike. Hoping I'm wrong now. I'm with you on that. Thank you so much. What BE Thanks. Addison says the only good thing about Trump being elected is the collective rage of us young women who have been assaulted by men like him. Thank you for the super chat. Means so much, Joseph Compton, but he's God's instrument against the godless left. Trump is a born again Christian. Yep, exactly. Mama Brooke. Noted MAGA pastors won't say anything because that's their entire grift. 100%. And then Destiny the grunge girl. Beware of the Levitt of the gop. My favorite Bible verse.
- [67:47]
April Ajoy
Oh, my gosh, I love that. That's hilarious.
- [67:49]
Tim Whitaker
Yeah. I mean, look, maybe while we have a second here, I. Let's try and tie these things together for maybe folks who did not grow up like you and I did. April, I think it's important to kind of give people some context here. So, Ian, look, let's be clear. Sexual abuse of children can happen anywhere. Okay? It can happen in schools. It can happen anywhere. So we're not saying that it's unique to certain spaces. However, in the white evangelical church world that we grew up in, not only was it not uncommon for this to happen, but it was oftentimes covered up. And that was the big problem. We have stories like the SBC Southern Baptist Convention hiding decades of sexual abuse in its ranks. The Assemblies of God, another massive Pentecostal denomination, just had an article drop about them hiding abuse allegations. And as someone who's been doing this work for five years, starting in that more exvangelical space, I'm sure, like you, April, we can give story after story of people who were really hurt and abused by pastors and leaders, and we're given absolutely no path towards justice. One more example, maybe, is Mike Bickle of International House of Prayer, one of the biggest charismatic spaces out there. Decades of sexual abuse being covered up. So I say this because you have to understand that while to other folks who I would argue have a moral conscience, these people are willing to overlook egregious sin, egregious abuse, if it serves the greater purpose. Oftentimes people were told, well, we can't. We can't call this person to justice because look, look. Look at how God is using them to bring souls to Christ. That ideology, that perspective, when you believe that MAGA or Trump is saving America, absolutely has a very easy transition to go from. Well, we can't condemn my pastor because he's God's anointed. You know, so clearly, I can't critique Trump because God's anointed Trump, because there's an entire subculture of pastors and theologians and authors who write new theologies, giving their audience these permission structures and justifications of why God has anointed Trump to lead America. So with that at the top, it's very difficult, I would argue, damn near impossible, to see things for what they really are. So, honestly, I am not holding my breath at all that white evangelical conservative Christians are gonna mutiny on Trump or call him out for this, because, frankly, this is just kind of how it goes in those spaces time and time again.
- [70:12]
April Ajoy
No, I. I agree with you. I think if I've been very upset and angry and disappointed in my fellow Christians, who I used to once respect as godly people and people that cared about integrity and morality and righteousness and just basically throw that out the door in order to support Donald Trump, and still. And still, I mean, he's beyond the sexual immorality and the like, just what. How he's treating immigrants, how he's not feeding our hungry families, how he's taking away health care. Like the, the, the, the level of things that he's done that are inhumane are. We've talked about it extensively. It's, it's a very, very long list. And the way that they can turn a blind eye because of the power that he gives them.
- [71:08]
Tim Whitaker
That's right.
- [71:09]
April Ajoy
Is just. It makes me sad.
- [71:11]
Tim Whitaker
Yeah. And. And to people out there who did not grow up like we did, you have to understand that there are deeply robust networks of Christians who believe this stuff that kind of are the fuel behind the Trump regime. They're not, they're not, they're not a majority in America. They're a minority, but they're very powerful and they're very motivated. They really believe that they're in a battle against good versus evil, and that the Republicans and MAGA represent God's good side and people on the left, so to speak, are, are on the side of Satan. And when you see the world through that kind of binary of we're on the side of good and they're on the side of evil, it's impossible for your guy to ever be on the side of evil. Doesn't matter what comes out. That's why, to his credit, he was right, Trump, when he said that early on in his first campaign that he could walk down Fifth Avenue and shoot someone and his supporters would still support him. He's right. Because here we are, almost a decade later, we have a smoking gun that Trump knew about sex, child sex trafficking. And so far as, again, as of this live, I have not seen any right wing pundits, pastors, evangelical faith leaders call this out. This is the same group, by the way, who, I'm not sure if you remember this April, but back when Obama was president, Fox News run ran segments over him asking for a great Poupon on a burger. Or they. They gave him a real hard time over wearing a tan suit or using a selfie stick. Right. They could obviously manufacture a scandal wherever they see fit. They've been handed one on a silver platter and they're ignoring it. And that's intentional.
- [72:44]
April Ajoy
Yeah. But you know, it's interesting though, there actually is a bit of a riff in MAGA world right now. There are quite a few people that are turning on Trump. Not for Epstein stuff, oddly enough, but because of what he said in this Laura INGRAM Interview about H1B visas and bringing over other workers. You want to just play this real quick?
- [73:04]
Tim Whitaker
Yeah, sure.
- [73:08]
Donald Trump (audio clips)
There's Never going to be a country like what we have right now. And does that mean the Republicans have to talk about it?
- [73:12]
April Ajoy
And does that mean the H1B visa thing will not be a big priority for your administration?
- [73:17]
Tim Whitaker
Because if you want to raise wages.
- [73:19]
April Ajoy
For American workers, you can't flood the country with tens of thousands or hundreds.
- [73:23]
Tim Whitaker
Of thousands of foreign workers.
- [73:24]
Donald Trump (audio clips)
Also do have to bring in talent when we have plenty of talented people. No, you don't.
- [73:29]
Tim Whitaker
No, you don't.
- [73:29]
April Ajoy
We don't have talented people.
- [73:31]
Donald Trump (audio clips)
No, you don't have certain talents. And people have to learn. You can't take people off an unemployment line and say, I'm going to put you into a factory where we're going to make missiles. Or I'm going to put.
- [73:42]
Tim Whitaker
How did we ever do it before?
- [73:44]
Donald Trump (audio clips)
Well, let me. I'll give you an example. In Georgia, they raided because they wanted illegal immigrants out. They had people from South Korea that made batteries all their lives. You know, making batteries are very complicated. It's not an easy thing, and very dangerous. A lot of explosions, a lot of problems. They had like five or six hundred people, early stages to make batteries and to teach people how to do it. Well, they wanted them to get out of the country. You're going to need that, Laura. I mean, I know you and I disagree on this. You can't just say a country's coming in, going to invest $10 billion to build a plant and going to take people off an unemployment line who haven't worked in five years and they're going to start making missiles. It doesn't work that well.
- [74:30]
Tim Whitaker
Yeah, the quiet part.
- [74:32]
April Ajoy
A lot of MAGA people are really mad about that.
- [74:34]
Tim Whitaker
Right? Yeah.
- [74:34]
April Ajoy
Because Trump ran on America first. We were tired of immigrants taking our jobs like that, like they are so anti immigrant. And then he said, no, we need to bring workers from overseas. And they're mad about that.
- [74:48]
Tim Whitaker
Yeah, they're pissed.
- [74:49]
April Ajoy
Which I, I'm all for H1B visas, like, no, for sure. But I also, like. It is just. It's just weird where their line is at.
- [74:58]
Tim Whitaker
Yeah, it's. It's interesting because if, if your economy is losing jobs, which it is. If your inflation is up, which it is, you would think that investing in the American people to get them off the unemployment line would be kind of paramount. I'm not saying you can't have the H1, you know, visa process. Of course not. We're not, we're not white Christian nationalists first. Okay. But what I am saying is that it makes sense why Trump or a government official would say, hey, we have to get people off of unemployment, so we're going to invest into training, we're going to invest into getting higher. You know, we're going to invest into making higher education more affordable. Trump's response is just like, nah, we'll just. We'll just. We'll just import some people that will probably do it cheaper. Which, again, who does that benefit? It benefits the corporate class. It benefits the billionaire class. And this is what I'm not saying. Every person who voted for MAGA really understood what he was trying to do. But let's be. Let's be clear. This is a billionaire who has billionaire friends, who has every incentive to use the government to benefit his billionaire buddies. I mean, even these huge corporations who, like, donated to Trump's ballroom, they all got kickbacks. They all got kickbacks. If you look into it, they all have a benefit now. So it's not true populism. It's not really for the working people. And I think that it makes sense by people in this space to be livid when they voted for a guy who they thought was gonna bring jobs back to America. And here he is saying that we don't have the right people for it. They're too busy being stuck on the unemployment line. Jesus.
- [76:22]
April Ajoy
Well, because they want to believe in Trump so bad that they ignored all the times where he said exactly who he was and ignored it. Like they, they made justifications for all sorts of things that he said.
- [76:34]
Tim Whitaker
Yeah.
- [76:35]
April Ajoy
And. And now they're realizing, oh, maybe he's not a true Republican like we thought, which he's not. I mean, Trump's in it for himself.
- [76:42]
Tim Whitaker
Right.
- [76:42]
April Ajoy
Period like that. That's it. He's not a Christian nationalist. He's not really a Republican. He is a narcissist that will do whatever he needs to do to get himself more money and more power.
- [76:53]
Tim Whitaker
I do like what Epoch says here in the chat. The problem with H1B visas is that there's a lot of exploitation of these foreign workers. That's absolutely a thing.
- [77:00]
April Ajoy
Absolutely.
- [77:01]
Tim Whitaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you're importing, quote, unquote, cheap labor. Anyway. It's a whole thing. But, yeah, I think that that is a really good point.
- [77:07]
April Ajoy
So, yeah. So anyway, there's also. We've talked about maybe doing another episode, maybe Not Alive, about another riff that's happening in maga, a big one. Candace Owens. We've. We talked earlier this week. We released an episode on Tucker Carlson's interview with Nick Fuentes, and that caused. That's also causing a bit of a rift. And then you have Candace Owens and she's got a bunch of conspiracies around Charlie Kirk and Israel. And there's just, there's a lot of imploding going on in MAGA world right now.
- [77:38]
Tim Whitaker
Can I give you some tea, April? I have tea.
- [77:40]
April Ajoy
Do you have. Do we have time for tea?
- [77:42]
Tim Whitaker
Yeah, yeah. We're, we're way. Look, compared to our usual, we are way ahead of schedule. Okay? And I think that we can land the plane in a good, in a good amount of time. But there is. I do want to kind of hit this. So if you, friends, if you haven't been following. Nick Fuentes was interviewed, interviewed by Tucker Carlson. Nick Fuentes is someone who on Carlson's show said that he admires Stalin. I mean, not a person that you really want to emulate or really be platforming, especially if you're, Again, if you're not going to critique or push back on his horrible ideas. So, okay, let me try and give you guys the context. In this Christian nationalist world, right? You have a lot of competing ideas sometimes. So there is a very heavy anti Semitic bent that has been exposed since the genocide of the Palestinian people. Nick Fuentes, Tucker Carlson, Candace Owens are kind of the big three who for the first time publicly really started using the Palestinian genocide as a, as a path to get people to think about the Jews who control the world. Okay? Now two things are true at the same time. April and I are very much against the ongoing genocide of the Palestinian people. We've been clear about that. We also aim our frustration at the IDF in the nation state of Israel. We do not think that there is a deep conspiracy of the Jews who are running the globe.
- [78:56]
April Ajoy
No.
- [78:56]
Tim Whitaker
However, anti Semitic people like Candace, Tucker and Nick will use that as a way to get people to start thinking about, oh, why do Jews, you know, run the banks, yada yada, yada. So keep that in mind now, right? In the Christian nationalist world, that's a problem because a lot of Christian nationalists are very much pro Zionists, meaning they believed that in their eschatology, meaning the end of the world, that Israel, the nation state of Israel, plays a key part in how Christ and when Christ will return, which is why the US Must always support Israel. If you want to know why a lot of our foreign policy is so pro Israel, look into John Hagee and other Christians like him who have really shaped foreign policy. Okay? So with all that in the background, when Nick Fuentes went on Tucker's show and was able to say what he said about all those things. Right. It created a massive problem because Tucker Carlson is speaking at America Fest. That's. That's turning point, USA's big, Super bowl that they do every single year. I usually go to it to cover it. I'm not going this year because Charlie Kirk, you know, was assassinated.
- [80:04]
April Ajoy
I don't.
- [80:04]
Tim Whitaker
I don't. I don't feel like it's the right time for me to go. But Tucker Carlson is still a keynote speaker at this event. Well, when you have Turning Point Faith, their faith wing, who's very tied into the Christian, nationalist, Zionist movement, that's a huge problem for these pastors. And I have it on decent authority that there is a huge potential mutiny happening inside of these spaces. Some people are like, I cannot believe that they're going to have Tucker on, On the main stage after what he did with Nick Fuentes. And it's causing real, real havoc behind the scenes. There's rumors of all kinds of things happening that I don't want to say. I'm not sure if I can actually say them, but I'll just say that there's a lot of infighting happening. They're going after Ali Stuckey. Ali Stuckey is fighting with Candace. Ben Shapiro came out, did a huge thing condemning Tucker. Kevin Roberts, who runs the Heritage foundation, defended Tucker's interview. That had to recant that because donors were all mad at him for supporting it. There's a major rift happening. But to be clear, April, to be clear, not that you and I know everything, but we called this a while ago. We're like, guys, excuse me. Excuse me. Marjorie, Taylor Greene just spoke at Nick Fuentes's rally a few years ago, and no one condemned it. You might want to be concerned about Nick Fuentes, who says that the Holocaust probably didn't happen and that Hitler was great and that Joseph Stalin is someone who. He. Who he admires. So we've been calling this out for a while. We've been calling out for a while, and here we are.
- [81:33]
April Ajoy
Yep. But interesting so far. Doesn't seem to be over Epstein.
- [81:38]
Tim Whitaker
Not yet. Or not. All right.
- [81:40]
April Ajoy
Yeah.
- [81:41]
Tim Whitaker
Child sex traffic.
- [81:42]
April Ajoy
Taylor Greene and Lauren Boebert, Nancy Mace, Thomas Massie. You know, there's a handful of Republicans that are wanting to release the files, although from what I've seen, most of them are. Don't think Trump's in them.
- [81:53]
Tim Whitaker
So there also is a story now that about 100 Republicans have defected from the Trump position and are going to sign next week to release the file. So I do think that There is. But again, that's different than the rank and file, so we have to keep those things in mind. But we'll keep you all. We'll keep you all completely, you know, apprised as. As things develop. But there is a major civil war happening inside of maga. Not over their president potentially being a child sex trafficker, but because Nick Fuentes, which, by the way, I'll take that. I mean, anyone who says Hitler was great should be universally condemned. I would think that is a.
- [82:28]
April Ajoy
It's pretty. It's honestly kind of upsetting that it's even causing a riff. Like, I feel like everyone should just agree, yeah, Nazis are bad.
- [82:36]
Tim Whitaker
I don't know. I was.
- [82:37]
April Ajoy
But yet it's become a debate over there.
- [82:39]
Tim Whitaker
Right. So, yeah, it's starting.
- [82:41]
Sponsor/Advertisement Voice
Okay.
- [82:42]
April Ajoy
Yeah. Should we get to our final segment of the day so early?
- [82:46]
Tim Whitaker
I love it. Of course. Here we go.
- [82:50]
April Ajoy
Amen. Should we read through these? Should we get caught up in these super chats real quick and then we'll do it?
- [82:56]
Tim Whitaker
Okay, cool. Amen.
- [82:59]
April Ajoy
Amen.
- [83:00]
Tim Whitaker
Okay. Here you go. Can you read this one?
- [83:02]
April Ajoy
Yeah. Joseph Compton IV says, these fools voted for this nonsense. They let their racism and bigotry be their guide. They chose to not accept reality. You're not qualified. Agreed. Stevie Clown 2000 says Trump couldn't even flip fries because wasn't trained for a photo op. So he knows what he's talking about.
- [83:21]
Caroline Levitt
Lol.
- [83:22]
April Ajoy
I remember that Kyle Adcox says, Tim, because certain individuals buy into anti Semitism, ethnocentricism, and sexism. We're not a Christian nation. We're a carnal one.
- [83:34]
Tim Whitaker
Amen. Okay.
- [83:36]
April Ajoy
All right.
- [83:37]
Tim Whitaker
Weird Christian shit. No context. Here we go.
- [83:43]
Evangelical Influencer
The very first Apple computer was sold for $666. I can't be the only one that thinks that's a little weird. And now, on the back of every single Apple product, is the symbol that points all the way back to the very first sin and the very first temptation of Satan. A piece of fruit with a bite taken out of it. Now, maybe that's just clever branding, or maybe there's something deeper going on here. But think about it. In the beginning, the bite of the fruit symbolized the separation between man and God. And now, at the end, in the end times, could it be that that very same symbol, a bitten fruit on the back of every single iPhone, is dividing us again? Dividing us from God, but also dividing us from each other? I can't be the only one that walks into a restaurant and sees people that are together but isolated Glued to their phones. We've become so connected, yet so isolated. Just like the garden. And now, I'm not saying, I'm not making the argument that there's like a demon behind every phone. What I'm saying is this, that some things are hidden in plain sight. And if you don't understand that our battle is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against strongholds, against powers, demonic forces that are trying to divide us, then maybe you'll start to let the creations of those principalities begin to rule your life. So what do we do? We put down our phones, we look each other in the eyes, we pick up the word of God. We stop consuming the endless noise of. We start consuming the scriptures. I send out a free daily devotional every single morning for this very reason. Click the link in my bio. Why? Because guess what? The very thing that's going to redeem the brokenness of the world is the very word of God. And he's given it to us.
- [85:26]
April Ajoy
Listen, can I just say I am the holier of the two of us because I have an Android.
- [85:34]
Tim Whitaker
No, I hate that for you.
- [85:35]
April Ajoy
I don't have Satan in my phone.
- [85:37]
Tim Whitaker
Someone put in the chat. Best Android advertisement ever. I do just want to point out that there is actually an answer to this. Why was Apple's first computer sold for 666.66? Apple's first computer was sold for that amount when it was released. As the company's co founder Steve Wozniak said, I like repeating digits. Additionally, a 1/3 markup on the $500 wholesale price came to be around $666. So according to reports, 66 cents were further added to make it an eye catcher price for advertisements and promotions. So I'm so sorry what they want you to think. I'm so sorry, bro.
- [86:14]
April Ajoy
Evangelical influencer is hiding in plain sight the whole time.
- [86:20]
Tim Whitaker
Imagine if that guy used his speaking abilities to cover Epstein, to cover, you know, kidnapping immigrants to kidney. I'm just saying like some of these influencers are really talented. They can really communicate. I mean, his song choice was kind of of weird, but whatever. My point is that that guy made a whole ass sermon out of like that price tag. Imagine what they can do with like real information.
- [86:42]
April Ajoy
Take the bite, take it out. Like what about eve? Remember the first 10? It's on the back of your phone. Do you.
- [86:50]
Tim Whitaker
Heathen, I'm looking at Apple right now.
- [86:55]
April Ajoy
Yeah, listen, I don't know what's worse, that or there was a guy on Instagram that I saw that was saying that 67 was a demonic ritual that kids were doing.
- [87:06]
Tim Whitaker
Am I allowed to sound old and say I don't know what the 67 trend is?
- [87:11]
April Ajoy
I think your kids. Your. Your kids aren't in elementary school yet, are they?
- [87:14]
Tim Whitaker
They're not. They're too young.
- [87:15]
April Ajoy
Okay. My kids are. My kids definitely do six. It's like, everywhere.
- [87:19]
Tim Whitaker
What is it? What does it mean? Help us older folks?
- [87:23]
April Ajoy
Well, I didn't know what it meant for a long time either. And the thing is, it doesn't mean anything. It's like brain rot, basically. It's. It's just like one of those stupid things, like Millennials. When we had the game, do you remember the game?
- [87:36]
Tim Whitaker
What game?
- [87:37]
April Ajoy
I just lost the game.
- [87:38]
Tim Whitaker
I. No, no, I was homeschooling. I was homeschooled.
- [87:41]
April Ajoy
Timothy, I'm sorry. You didn't know the game.
- [87:45]
Tim Whitaker
I. I knew the little like, okay, sign where you put it. Yeah. People look at, like, your. Your.
- [87:49]
April Ajoy
Well, you just lost the game, and so did everybody that's watching this. So.
- [87:53]
Tim Whitaker
Okay. Yeah.
- [87:54]
April Ajoy
Anyway, there's nothing to it, but it. No. Well, it originated from. There's a rapper that has it in a song, and I don't know if it came in that first or. There was a. There was a basketball player who. They asked him how tall he was. He was like, six, seven. And then it made this, like, big meme, the way he did it. Like six, seven. And then it just. It's just like one of those random things that just blows up. It doesn't really mean anything.
- [88:17]
Tim Whitaker
It's also unsubscribing.
- [88:17]
April Ajoy
I know people are unsubscribing because they lost the game. I'm sorry.
- [88:20]
Tim Whitaker
No, April, you've ruined it. You've ruined the show.
- [88:23]
April Ajoy
Together.
- [88:24]
Tim Whitaker
No.
- [88:25]
April Ajoy
I can't believe you don't know about the game.
- [88:27]
Tim Whitaker
Look, dude, I don't know what to tell you. I don't know. I know the game. Mafia. Ever played Mafia as a kid?
- [88:34]
April Ajoy
No. Okay, yes, I know Mafia, but that's not the game.
- [88:39]
Tim Whitaker
Should I have ChatGPT describe it to us?
- [88:43]
April Ajoy
Actually, I would love to know what ChatGPT says about the game. If they even know it. You have to specifically say the Millennial. What does it mean if a millennial says I lost the game? I mean, I know the answer to.
- [88:54]
Tim Whitaker
This, but what does it mean if a millennial says I lost the game? Okay, if. If a millennial says I lost the game? They're referencing an old school Internet mind game meme simply called the game. Here's what it means the game's only rule. If you think about the game, you lose the game. Once you lose, you must announce it out loud. I lost the game. So everyone around you knows about it, also thinks about it, and loses too. The point, There is no winning. The whole joke is that once you know the game exists, you're stuck playing it forever. Millennials and older Gen Z kept it alive through AIM Chat. Aim. Oh, my God. AOL Instant Messenger. I had one of those. MySpace, early Facebook, Reddit, and late night youth group lock ins. ChatGPT knows about evangelical culture.
- [89:43]
April Ajoy
Wow. This was beyond evangelical culture, though. This was millennial culture.
- [89:48]
Tim Whitaker
I said youth group lock ins. I'm like, oh, no.
- [89:50]
April Ajoy
I know, I know, I know. But again, you should have known the game.
- [89:54]
Tim Whitaker
Well, now I lost the game.
- [89:56]
April Ajoy
Yep, you've lost the game.
- [89:57]
Tim Whitaker
Hey, I got it. Okay, well, on that note, what a show. We have over a thousand people on substack watching this with us right now.
- [90:10]
April Ajoy
That is crazy.
- [90:11]
Tim Whitaker
I'm honored that you guys would tune in. April and I are very much committed to making this work go as long as possible. And frankly, your support means the world to us. You are not alone. I promise. We see the same stuff you do, and you are not losing your mind, especially if you're like, a former conservative Christian. I just want you to know that you were right in 2016 when you saw Trump make those statements and thought, you know, I can't vote for a guy who brags about assaulting women. You were right. And the conservative church that told you you were a heretic for not voting for that man. They were the ones who lost their minds. They were the ones who lost their morals. They lost their values, not you. So I just want you to be encouraged.
- [90:53]
April Ajoy
You have not lost your mind, but you have lost the game.
- [90:57]
Tim Whitaker
Well, on that note, I'm simply. Are we done?
- [91:03]
Sponsor/Advertisement Voice
Yeah.
- [91:04]
April Ajoy
Join us next week on the Tim and April Show. Thanks for joining us and losing the game with us.
- [91:10]
Tim Whitaker
I'm Tim Whitaker.
- [91:11]
April Ajoy
And I'm April Ajoy. Goodbye until next time.