75. Nick Shirley's Day Care Tale Fuels MAGA's Immigrant Hate

Summary

Podcast Episode Summary

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The Tim & April Show, Ep. 75: "Nick Shirley's Day Care Tale Fuels MAGA's Immigrant Hate"

Podcast: The Tim & April Show (by The New Evangelicals)
Hosts: Tim Whitaker and April Ajoy
Date: January 2, 2026
Theme: Unraveling Faith, Politics, and Culture from a Christian Worldview Rooted in Love, Justice, and Inclusivity

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Episode Overview

This New Year's episode delves into the viral right-wing claims of daycare fraud in Minnesota, focusing on YouTuber Nick Shirley's "exposé" that targets Somali immigrant-run daycare centers. Tim and April unpack the story's credibility, its narrative and political utility, and how these MAGA-driven tales exploit xenophobia under the guise of rooting out fraud. Through their conversation, they emphasize the importance of compelling, truthful storytelling as an antidote to misinformation, and reflect on the power of empathy and personal connection to transform perspectives.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Opening: New Year Reflections & Content Creator Realities

• Tone: Relaxed, self-aware, humorous.
• Main Points:
  • Both hosts reflect on the pressures and paralysis of content creation—feeling the tug to comment on every trending story.
  • Quote:
    • Tim (02:47): "There's always being in the back of your mind a little voice saying, you need to post about this... That is by far, for me, the hardest thing... to ignore when I'm trying to be present."
  • They discuss their New Year’s resolutions to focus on quality over quantity, prioritizing thoughtful content over chasing the algorithm.

2. A Viral Accusation: Nick Shirley’s Daycare "Exposé"

• [09:31–12:01]
• Background on Nick Shirley:
  • 23-year-old YouTuber from Utah known for prank videos and MAGA-aligned sensationalism, with no journalism background.
  • Examples of past content: Filming migrants, paying day laborers to pose as Biden supporters, and hyperbolic video titles (e.g., "Portland Has Fallen: Antifa Take Control of City.")
  • Quote:
    • April (11:46): "I would not go to this man for journalistic integrity."

3. Shirley’s Tactics & Baseless Claims

• [12:16–15:53]
• Shirley’s "method" involves knocking on doors of Somali-run daycare centers, filming when no one lets him in, and using this as "proof" of fraud.
• Quote:
  • April (15:53): "You can tell this guy has no kids... the doors are always locked. That is a protective thing… you can't just walk in."
  • Tim (16:32): "Of course they wouldn’t open the door. Why on earth would they open the door to a bunch of strangers with video cameras?"

4. Debunking the Claims: Real Journalism Responds

• [19:25–21:29]
• Clip from a local news report refutes Shirley's evidence with security footage, confirming children are present at the center and operations are legitimate.
• The center’s Somali-American staff describe increased harassment, triggered by the viral video.
• Quote:
  • Umi Hassan, daycare owner (20:57): "We pay our taxes, we do whatever we can to be a law-abiding citizen. At the same time, when one Somali does something wrong, we all get collective banishment."
• Tim and April highlight how MAGA’s tactics have real consequences, leading to threats and vandalism against immigrants who are already vulnerable.
• Quote:
  • Tim (21:37): "The same movement worried about protecting kids… has no problem calling up daycare centers and harassing them despite having children inside."

5. The Importance of Sourcing & Critical Thinking

• [23:21–26:23]
• Tim and April attempt to independently verify Shirley’s numerical claims but are unable to due to a lack of public data and cited sources. They emphasize that's not journalism.
• April notes that true journalism demands clear sourcing and verification—something absent in Shirley's work.
• Quote:
  • April (25:40): "As someone who actually did go to journalism school... If you say something in a piece, you have to back that up. The fact that he's throwing out numbers and isn’t backing that up with data is a huge red flag."

6. Fraud as a Dog Whistle, Not a Priority

• [26:23–29:33]
• Actual daycare fraud cases in Minnesota are already being prosecuted, many involving people of various backgrounds.
• Large-scale fraud by major corporations and Trump allies is ignored by right-wing media, highlighting the selective outrage.
• Quote:
  • Tim (29:33): "This is not about fraud. This is about narrative building to target a minority group... because Donald J. Trump has called them garbage and scum and because these people want to make America white again."

7. The Power of Narrative, Propaganda, and Storytelling

• [34:57–38:31]
• MAGA/religious right media excels at weaponizing compelling stories—often fictional or exaggerated—to reinforce prejudice.
• Tim references Jared Stacy’s upcoming book, noting that humans are moved more by stories than by data or facts.
• Quote:
  • Tim (35:14): "Conspiracy theories are compelling because they tell a story loaded with myth and narratives that people already believe."

8. Why MAGA Stories Are Believed: Community, Identity, and Cognitive Dissonance

• [38:31–43:33]
• April argues it’s easier to create compelling stories when unconstrained by truth. Many Christians' identities are bound up in believing the "good side;" to accept damning facts would require questioning their core self and past actions.
• The infrastructure for MAGA stories is robust, quick-spreading, and financially supported—unlike their progressive or moderate counterparts.
• Quote:
  • April (38:31): "It is a lot easier to create more compelling stories when you’re not limited by truth..."

9. Empathy as a Threat: The Personal Power of Story

• [43:33–51:35]
• Both hosts share how relationships and empathy, not data, changed their own views on LGBTQ inclusion and systemic racism.
• The right actively demonizes empathy because personal connection undermines the misinformation.
• Quotes:
  • Tim (48:35): "I was not changed... by data or facts. I was convinced because my first ever gay friend... became my friend, and he told me his story."
  • April (50:38): "This is why MAGA and right wing Christians are demonizing empathy. They want you to shun the people in your life in order to protect the belief system."

10. Political Fallout: National Daycare Funding Freeze

• [32:35–34:58]
• Trump administration freezes all federal funds to U.S. daycare centers based on this viral, unsubstantiated story, causing harm far beyond Minnesota.
• Quote:
  • April (32:35): "Based on this person’s video of propaganda... the President of the United States has frozen all federal funding to daycare centers. Why do other children and parents have to suffer because of this?"

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On sensationalist journalism:
  • April (11:46): “I would not go to this man for journalistic integrity.”
• On investigative ‘methods’:
  • April (15:53): “You can tell this guy has no kids… The doors are always locked. That is a protective thing.”
• On narrative-building:
  • Tim (35:14): "Conspiracy theories are compelling because they tell a story loaded with myth and narratives that people already believe."
• On empathy and transformation:
  • Tim (48:35): "I was not changed… by data or facts. I was convinced because my first ever gay friend… told me his story."
  • April (50:38): "This is why... right wing Christians are demonizing empathy. They want you to shun the people in your life in order to protect the belief system."
• On the real-life impact:
  • Umi Hassan, daycare owner (20:57): "…When one Somali does something wrong, we all get collective banishment."
• On MAGA’s talking points:
  • Tim (29:33): "It’s not about fraud. This is about narrative building to target a minority group… to scapegoat them… because these people want to make America white again."
• On the Trump administration’s response:
  • April (32:35): "Based on this person’s video of propaganda with no hard sources, the President of the United States has frozen all federal funding to daycare centers."

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Annotated Timeline of Important Segments

• 00:00–05:07: Light New Year's discussion; pressures and realities of content creation
• 09:31–12:01: Introduction of Nick Shirley and his track record
• 14:53–16:32: Breakdown of Shirley's investigative ‘approach’ and critical commentary
• 19:25–21:29: News report debunks the daycare fraud claims; Somali-American owners speak out
• 23:21–26:23: Fact-checking Shirley’s funding claims and journalism standards
• 29:33: Tim summarizes MAGA’s real aim behind the fraud narrative
• 34:57–38:31: Discussion of propaganda, storytelling, and narrative’s power
• 43:33–51:35: Emphasizing empathy, personal stories, and their transformational effect

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Signature Moments

• (15:27) Tim and April’s incredulous reaction to Shirley using locked doors as proof of fraud.
• (16:32 d) Tim’s summary of Shirley’s lack of self-awareness: “Read the room.”
• (19:25–21:29): The news segment with visual evidence of children at the daycare, exposing the baselessness of the viral accusations.
• (35:14–38:31): Tim’s mini-essay on the importance of storytelling and referencing Jared Stacy’s book.
• (50:38–51:35): April’s reflection on how empathy is demonized because it changes minds and hearts.

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Language, Tone, and Community

The hosts use a blend of humor, ex-evangelical candor, and frankness, often making light of former beliefs (“I was waiting to float up naked in the rapture”) while taking misinformation and hate seriously. They directly address their live audience throughout, read user comments/super chats, and stress their commitment to honesty and transparency.

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Conclusion

Tim and April wrap the episode affirming the necessity of better storytelling to counter right-wing propaganda, defending the value of empathy and authentic, inclusive Christian faith, and previewing further in-depth coverage of the intersection of Christian nationalism and politics.

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For First-Time Listeners:
This episode is a thorough deconstruction of how misinformation (especially with MAGA and anti-immigrant aims) spreads online, who benefits from it, and why empathy and genuine connection are crucial for cultural change. The Tim & April Show offers a refreshing, honest counterpoint to Christian Nationalist narratives—rooted in personal growth, justice, and the teachings of Jesus.

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Next Up:
A special episode marking January 6th, exploring the religious roots of the insurrection, featuring expert scholar Matthew Taylor ([57:13]).

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Memorable clip: "Anybody struggling with bulging dicks—discs." [60:31]
Ending the episode with laughter and levity, balancing the deep topics discussed.

Transcript

[A]

You're listening to a new evangelicals production, The Tim and April show where we unravel faith, politics and culture. Happy New Year.

[B]

2026. Here we are. Happy New year everyone. Welcome in to a special New Year's Day episode of the Tim and April Show. I am Tim Whitaker.

[A]

And I am April.

[B]

A joy we made it another year. We survived April. We, we, we managed to make it through one heck of a year.

[A]

It was a year, oh my goodness year it was.

[B]

Yeah. Friends, we're, we're gonna have I, I think on one hand, you know, going to be covering what's happening in Minnesota, of course, but also, you know, it's kind of like a lazy day. I'm not sure about you, April, but New Year's Day for me is very much a put your feet up, like give the kids whatever they need to be happy. So you could just relax and kind of turn your mind off for a little bit. So that's what I'll be doing after this stream. And also I will be watching the Stranger Things finale. I have not watched it yet. I am very excited to watch it. So that's on my agenda today. I'm, I'm, I'm pumped. I'm pumped.

[A]

I wish I could watch it again but it be for the first time still recovering because I, we watched the finale last night and h. Good, good.

[B]

Well, we leave that there.

[A]

Anything else?

[B]

We will leave that there. How was your holiday? How was your Christmas? I mean, was it good for you?

[A]

It was good. So I, we had family nonstop in starting at like the 18th of December. So we had like beacher side and then my side in. So it's been kind of nonstop people staying with us which has been great. But I, well, you know, as people who are livelihood like our work is the news.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, we're very focused on the news. I tried to do my best to not do work and just focus on family. So when I tell you that I had been living under a rock, I didn't know about the Minnesota daycare story until you texted it to me yesterday because I was like, no, I don't want to think about Donald Trump. I am enjoying my family. I know I'll have to think about him plenty in the new year and I just don't want to do it. So I literally was living under a rock and I tried very hard to not be on my phone and just be present and it was really nice. But it is very overwhelming coming back from under that rock.

[B]

But do you struggle with the ever Never ending tug of like, you have to make content. You have to get something up. You're gonna get lost in the system. I mean, I think a lot of people who don't make content for a living, like, you know, it's a different kind of stress, right? It's. It's not a very physically demanding job, obviously, but like the mental load of there always being in the back of your mind a little voice saying, you need to post something about this. You have to get this up. You should make a new video. You should. Oh, no. People haven't seen your take on this thing that's currently in the news. That is by far, for me, the hardest thing, like, to ignore when I'm trying to be present with my kids and with my family, bar none. Not even a question. Not even a question.

[A]

Yes. Yeah, I know. I definitely, I definitely have struggled with that. I've gotten a lot better, though. To me, I think my bigger struggle now is there are so many things that I could make content on.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

It's deciding which one to make content on because I just, I can't make a. I can't make a video on everything.

[B]

No.

[A]

And then feeling almost like, like I can't decide. Almost, almost like this paralysis of like, I don't know what to do because there's too many options. And I feel like stunned and like just frozen and being able to do that.

[B]

And our content intersects, right, at politics, religion and culture. So they're all three humongous categories, right? There are creators who only cover politics, who only cover religion, who only cover culture. And we're trying to find things that are at the intersection of that. And it's a lot. It's a lot, right? I mean, you and I could be literally doing content every day long form if we, if we had a whole team and still not keep up. But I think, you know, for me, New Year's resolutions and stuff, I'm thinking about just how I get more focused and refined in my own content. Like being okay with me not having a take on everything. Right. Being more intentional with what I cover. And I think more of a quality over quantity approach. That's why personally, I'm putting more of my creative energy into YouTube and into Substack and not so much into Instagram, because I want to be able to, you know, think through what I'm trying to say and kind of get the whole piece out there. That might take a few more minutes than just a quick reel. So those are some of my New Year's resolutions along with getting new glasses because I'm on my last pair and my children have broken my other one, so I need new glasses as they do.

[A]

Well, I'm so excited for you to watch Stranger Things. It was Okay. I don't even want to say it. I mean, I do want to say it. I have so many you.

[B]

April, let's just move on. I don't want to know anything else. I don't want the audience to get freaked out. I don't want to see anything. Let's just get into our. Our story for today. Before we do that, friends. Yes.

[A]

Freeze. Before we do what you were about to do.

[B]

Okay, go ahead.

[A]

The last time we were live, we missed two super chats and we said that we were going to read them on the next. We didn't. We, like, totally forgot. We went. We stopped airing. And I was like, oh, no, we missed a super chat. Because I just. In the hustle and the bustle of the show, we missed two. And. And one was like, I think what? Maybe our biggest super chat ever was like, 49.99. So we just want to shout out P.J. schuster, 61, who said, Two Christians that I love. She gave us 49.99, which. I mean, that's amazing. Thank you so much. It was like a Christmas thing. And then System of an up said, never stop the great work. Happy holidays, y'.

[C]

All.

[A]

And we are so sorry that we miss those super chats. And we try our best to read all of them on the air. And if we miss it, well, we will come back to it. It might be two weeks later, but we'll. We'll get there.

[B]

You know, April, bless your heart. Bless your heart that I love being your co host.

[A]

Me out.

[B]

I love me.

[A]

I'll be so bad that we missed it.

[B]

Friends, if you want to know the level of ethics that we have, we save super chats from two weeks ago and read it on the. Not we. April. April does that. Okay. So well.

[A]

And Cassidy helped us remember. I was like, cass, you have to remind me. I'm going to feel. I felt so bad. I literally had a hard time sleeping that night because I was like, no, you didn't. We missed it. I felt so bad.

[B]

I'm dying. Also, we got a super chat now, so I can read it. It's from our friend who we see almost every week. Stevie clown. We survived 2025. Here's to being love, empathy, and kindness scum in 2026. Which does remind me one thing we did want to mention that we did Miss Is the holiday greeting from our dear fear fearless leader Trump. I wanted to pull this up, maybe have you read it, April, and then we'll get into our main story today, because this was. You know, when I think about a good Christian president who embodies the values of a biblical worldview, I think about how he greeted all of us on Christmas. And maybe you should read this for the audience so we can really hear the Christian energy here.

[A]

All right, here I go. Merry Christmas to all, including the radical left scum that is doing everything possible to destroy our country but are failing badly. We no longer have open borders, men and women, sports, transgender for everyone or weak law enforcement. What we do have is a record stock market and 401ks. Lowest crime numbers in decades. No inflation and yesterday a 4.3 GDP, 2 points better than expected. Tariffs have given us trillions of dollars in growth and prosperity and the strongest national security we have ever had. Wealth. We are respected again, perhaps like never before. God bless America. President DJ T. Can I just say it is a Christmas miracle that we didn't have any all caps in that rant.

[B]

Look, when I think about someone who keeps Christ in Christmas, it's that man right there. And for good reason.

[A]

Can I tell you how much of a rock I was under that? I did see some people on threads being like, where are my radical leftists scum in Kentucky? And I'd be like, I literally thought, I bet Donald Trump called his radical leftness scum in his Christmas message. But I was like, I'm not gonna go read it. I'm not gonna read it. I'm not. Yeah.

[B]

Well, anyway, friends, listen, thanks so much for being here. It means the world. If you're watching live on YouTube, please make sure to give this video a like and subscribe to the channel if you're watching on subsack. Hello, everyone. We are the Tim and April show, two people who grew up in Christian nationalism and have since defected and now are Christians in the other direction. Smash that heart button. So we know that you're watching and enjoying the stream. And this show is produced by the New Evangelicals, a nonprofit organization that I started now being led by Melinda Hale, that helps people find a better path forward in faith. So if you're looking for community resources, all that kind of stuff, you can go to thenewevangelicals.com connect and get involved. It's totally free. There's no cost. We create these spaces for people who are looking for that better path forward. Okay, are you ready to get into.

[A]

This let's do it.

[B]

All right, so I'm sure by now everyone who's watching this is aware of this name, Nick Shirley, and this. This apparent expose he did, destroying the narrative, you know, and exposing massive fraud in daycares in Minnesota that just all happened to be run by Somali immigrants or SOMALI, you know, U.S. citizens. And we want to dive into that a little bit today because there's kind of two angles, one of which I think is important to talk about on the factual level, but there's, like, a deeper narrative that I think is worth unpacking. We'll get into that a little bit later on.

[A]

You want me to give you a quick like.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Who Nick Shirley is? That's Dive into this.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. So I actually did not know who this guy was until this whole thing blew up. I kind of recognize him. Like, I feel like I've seen him in clips. It, like, now, but I didn't know who he was. So. He's 23. He is very young. He started out making YouTube prank videos in high school. He's from Utah. And then just last year, during the 2024 election, he started making YouTube videos aimed at boosting Donald Trump, like, in support of Donald Trump's presidency.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

He. He. In February of 2024, he recorded himself asking migrants if they supported Joe Biden and shared this video on X saying that they did. He's, like, confirmed migrants for Biden 2024. Then a few months later, he hired Latino day laborers at a Home Depot parking lot, paid them $20 each to appear in a video holding signs that said, I love Biden and I need work permit for my family. So he's, like, paying. Yeah. Anyway, I would say that's a little bit shady. He also has videos where he went into. He went into Portland. This was, like, recently when the whole antifa crap was happening. He had a video that he posted. And I'm not kidding you, the title for this video is this is from three months ago. Portland has Fallen and TIFA Take Control of City.

[B]

When I think independent journalism, I think of titles like that.

[A]

Portland Has Fallen. So we're not dealing with someone he very sensationalized. I would not go to this man for journalistic integrity.

[B]

No.

[A]

Just based on his track record. But he's Antifa Roundtable at the White House that we covered.

[B]

That was like, a semicircle. Was even round.

[A]

That was. No, it wasn't even round. It was, like, square.

[B]

Square.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

So what.

[B]

What I did was, look, we're not going to go through the Entire video, I just pulled up two clips just to kind of set the stage for, like, the premise. And I. I want to point out a few different things as we kind of go through it. The first clip I want to share is just Nick talking to, I think, this guy's name. He only gives him. He only says his first name. I think it's like, Jerry or something like that. We don't know who he is, where he comes from. It's never explained in the video except for this part right here. So here's the premise. They're exposing apparently massive fraud in Minneapolis, Minnesota, that is connected to daycare centers and healthcare centers, et cetera. And here's the proof that we're gonna trust as we go throughout this video.

[E]

And how are you getting all this information about the fraud?

[A]

A lot of it is through my own research. And then I have some context at the Capitol going back many, many years. And so the data that I'm getting is 100% accurate, coming directly from research done by people at the state Capitol.

[B]

So I need to say a few things here. Again, like, he's calling himself an independent journalist. The Maga World calls him an independent journalist on his YouTube video. There are no sources with where they're getting the information. Now, I'm not saying that. That. That the source of their info isn't legit or that the numbers that they have on screen throughout the video of how much money these daycare centers are apparently defrauding people or the. The state of Minnesota. I'm not saying that, that. That those numbers aren't even accurate. I'm just saying there's no way to. To find out in. April. Yeah, go ahead. What were you saying?

[A]

I just also want to point out, too, he has no degree, no journalism background whatsoever. I'm pretty sure he just has a.

[B]

High school diploma, which, hey, I mean, that's me.

[A]

Nothing wrong with that. But to, like, say that you're an invent, like, that you're an independent journalist when you literally have no journalist background or education whatsoever.

[B]

Well, and it's just very clear. And I watched this whole video earlier. I watched the entire thing. There's just no hard evidence. There's a lot of speculation that's passed off as hard evidence, and that's not how it works. Like, you need hard sources. Now, April, you and I, actually, I'll tell you what, let's play the next clip, and then we can kind of dive into what we found in our. In our very quick, you know, Googling, essentially. But I pulled One small excerpt from the video just to show you this guy's approach friends of what he did that apparently proved fraud by these daycare centers. This is just a straight up clip that I'm going to play here. Is that not working? Let's see. There we go. Here we go. Check this out.

[E]

Links should be operating as they're receiving literally millions of dollars. I knocked on the door and to my surprise somebody actually answered the door. Hello, can we speak? I would like to check a child in the daycare.

[A]

Why?

[E]

Can I speak to a manager? Where can I get paperwork to file for my son? I wanted to put my son Joey in daycare and after a few questions the lady went silent. Looks like little Joey Shirley ain't going to daycare here. And now where are we going?

[B]

Okay, so that's pretty much the approach for every single daycare they go to. They, they, they try to open doors. Doors are locked, windows are covered. And that is their smoking gun for these daycare centers being essentially shell institutions with no children just sucking up millions of dollars in taxpayer money fraudulently. That's, that's their smoking gun.

[A]

You can tell this guy has no kids because if you take your kid to any sort of child care, the doors are always locked. That is a protective thing. Because of all the people that want to steal and kidnap children, because of all of the mass shootings and school shootings that we have in our country, like childcare. And like even at my kids elementary school, I cannot get into the building even though I am a parent of a child.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Without ringing an intercom, same saying who I am and then still I have to go through an office before they even let me through. Like what are they talking about?

[B]

I want to put this in context for people. They are in an area that has a very dense Somali population that has been targeted nationally by Trump being called garbage scum, terrible people, etc. And you have a white dude with another white dude with a security team that's wearing masks by the way. That's later on in the video that was following them trying to open up daycare center doors in, in Somali population daycare centers. And his it's like, dude, read the room. Of course they wouldn't open the door. Of course. Why would they do that? Why on earth would they open the door to a bunch of strangers with video cameras asking to see the children? I watched the whole video over and over. Where are the kids? Where are the kids? Where are the kids? Are you kidding me? That is lunatic behavior. That's not investigative journalism. Thank God they didn't open the door. Oh, my gosh.

[A]

This, this, like, okay, I remember when I had his side when I try to enroll my kids in, like, a child care preschool. I had a call, I had to schedule an appointment before to, to be able to tour it. And you can't just walk and be like, I'd like to enroll my son. Like, there's wait lists, bro.

[B]

There's Joey.

[A]

Always have Joey.

[B]

No, of course.

[A]

Clearly I didn't have a kid. He didn't have a kid with him. Like, everything about it is shady, right?

[B]

And they showed up in a car with no license plate. I mean, people. And we're going to play a clip here from the news of this exact daycare center and the owner debunking the entire narrative that Nick and his video crew puts forth here in a second. But it's really important to highlight, I mean, just the reality of, like, people, especially Somali immigrants, are probably terrified of ice, right? They're thinking this administration is, is, is putting a national spotlight on this very small population. There's only 60,000 of these immigrants in, or I should say of Somali descent because a lot of them are also US Citizens in this area. Okay? And so the national spotlight is there. We know that Trump has no problem sending federal troops wherever he wants. Of course, I'd be on the lookout for ICE agents in this case, right? So it makes complete sense why doors are locked, windows are closed, and why they would not talk to some rando dude with. With a freaking camera and mass security behind him, right? So, so Nick goes on to say that, hey, this, this daycare center, ABC Daycare center is not. Has no kids. It's, it's taking up. It's taking government taxpayer funding and it's fraudulent. Here's the manager of that same daycare center, and here's his response to that.

[D]

This is ABC Learning center in Minneapolis.

[E]

They have to learn.

[D]

ABC and numbers director Ahmed Hassan gave WCCO a tour after finding his daycare in the national spotlight.

[E]

All right, we've arrived to ABC Learning Center.

[D]

In a now viral video, right wing YouTuber Nick Shirley claims nearly a dozen daycare centers in Minnesota are taking public funds but not providing a service. He says ABC Learning center is one of them knocking on the door in mid December.

[E]

I would like to check a child in a daycare.

[D]

Hassan says his employee didn't respond because Shirley was in a group of about eight people and his staff were concerned about recent ICE activity. Is this daycare coming from.

[B]

No, no, no. We're not committing fraud.

[D]

Hassan showed us security footage from the same day Shirley was here. According to the timestamps in the videos, this woman takes a young child into the center at around 9am that day, about three hours before Shirley arrives at the door closer to the street. Within the hour after Shirley leaves the a woman arrives at the other door with a stroller. A larger family heads inside a few hours later, Tuesday afternoon, WCCO found at least a dozen children at ABC Learning center, which is licensed with the state. Records show Minnesota officials last visited the daycare in November, noting some corrected and ongoing violations related to day to day operations, but no record of fraud.

[A]

What did I do? I'm just a typical human being who wants to live and do the right thing. I have kids to feed.

[D]

Umi Hassan, the daycare's current owner, believes these latest fraud accusations are political. Both she and Hasan are Somali Americans.

[A]

We pay our taxes, we do whatever we can to be a law abiding citizen. At the same time, when one Somali does something wrong, we all get collective banishment.

[D]

With Shirley's video now approaching 2.3 million views on YouTube alone, they say they are getting nonstop phone calls from harassing them.

[B]

I was looking for a place for my granddaughter.

[D]

With many of those calls attached to out of state phone numbers.

[B]

They normally say, knock, knock, we're going to come, you're going to arrest, you.

[E]

Know, something like that.

[D]

Hassan says they turned over attendance records to comply with the Department of Homeland Security request. They're now waiting to hear back.

[B]

So there you go. I mean, it kind of bunks Nick's narrative and also demonstrates how, you know, the harassment has already begun of these daycare centers that are housing children. So the same movement that was really worried about, about protecting kids, you know, from all these different kinds of people and from the deep state that's apparently trapping. Trafficking them has no problem calling up daycare centers and harassing them despite having children inside of them. It's. It's unbelievable.

[C]

Hey, everyone, this is Melinda Hale, the executive director of the New Evangelicals. Listen. Every day we hear from people who feel isolated, disillusioned and hurt by a version of Christianity that has been hijacked by politics and nationalism. And yet they still long for a faith that is rooted in love, justice and compassion. And that's why the New Evangelicals exist, because we believe there is a better path forward. We're creating resources, hosting conversations, and we're building communities for people who want to reclaim Christianity and stay rooted in the teachings of Jesus. But building A movement like this takes time, it takes energy, and it takes financial support. So if this podcast or our YouTube, our educational offerings or community space or anything that we've created has impacted you, would you consider becoming a donor? Even a gift of $5 makes a huge difference for small organizations like this. Your support helps us to continue empowering people to put their faith into action by rejecting Christian nationalism and to live in a way that shows people how to truly love our neighbors. Together, I know that we could build something beautiful. So visit theneweevangelicals.com support to give today. You can find the link right in our show notes. Thank you for standing with us.

[A]

I mean, the logic of like, just going up to a daycare, knocking on the door, them not letting you in, and that's proof that there's no kids in there. That's just stupid logic. Like, you can. We. I, we. I mentioned earlier you could do that to a, a mega church.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Show up there on a day that they're closed or in the middle working hours and knock on the door.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And be like, I would like to go to a church service right now. And then they say, oh, no, sorry, we're not open. Or they don't let you in because why would they let strangers into their building? And then you can say, no, they're not actually churches. They're not actually helping people. Yeah, like, you could do that with anything.

[B]

With anything. And so here's. So April and I, we, we tried to fact check or just verify the amount of funding that these daycares allegedly received. Just in general, that, that, that is pasted throughout the video for different daycare centers. And honestly, it was really complicated.

[A]

I.

[B]

Now, look, I'm not saying, I want to be really clear. I'm not saying that, that, that the actual numbers of funding received and I stated in the video are not true. But what I will tell you is that I could not find on Minnesota's website, I couldn't find any kind of way to check these daycare centers and how much government funding they received. It also turns out that, that the funding that comes from the federal government essentially gets split into two different camps. A lot of it goes directly to families who cannot afford daycare to subsidize that cost. So they, for example, my kids are on a state healthcare plan that is subsidized. And so we pay a very low premium for our kids directly. My healthcare provider, they're not involved at all. We just pay a very low cost. It's the same kind of Idea for daycare centers or, I'm sorry, for families. The other side of the funding can go to daycare centers and other kind of childcare centers. The only thing I could find easily on Minnesota's website was like, it was what was a grant section that only had about maybe two dozen child learning centers that received grant funding. Now, again, I want to be really clear. I'm not saying that, that, that the numbers in Nick's video aren't true. I just could not find a way to verify them as being factual.

[A]

Which is an example of how what he did is not actually journalism.

[B]

Right.

[A]

As someone who actually did go to journalism school, I got my master's in journalism. You cite sources, right? If you say something in a piece, you have to be able to back that up with data and cite your sources. And the fact that he's throwing out numbers and isn't backing that up with data, that is a huge red flag. But that is something that MAGA is really good at doing. They throw stuff out there that is not true. Their base runs with it. And it takes a lot more effort to then pinpoint and get to the truth when this lie and this propaganda is already spreading like wild, wildfire.

[B]

Right. And I definitely want to get into the story aspect and narrative building aspect of this and why it's so effective, and we'll do that just in a few minutes. A couple of things that I think are really worth highlighting while we're on this topic of just the raw data is first off, when it comes to actual fraud, right? Like, the big thing is, oh, there's fraud. No one is denying that Minnesota had a major fraud scandal with COVID The COVID epidemic. There was a. A huge scheme that did involve quite a few people of Somali descent, but was actually orchestrated by a white woman named Amy Buck to the tune of $250 million. But that case has been widely known. It's been reported on for years by mainstream news sources. And the Minnesota government has been involved in prosecuting those people. So let's be clear about that, okay? Fraud is fraud and should be taken seriously. Of course, the other thing is to know is that these daycare centers, or I should backtrack that the government has come out in the past that they have looked into daycare centers being accused of fraud or maybe even in some cases, committing fraud. So this news that Nick is trying to bring up as brand new isn't even new. You could literally Google this in Minnesota and see stories from earlier this year, from last year, of certain daycare Centers being prosecuted for fraud. So this idea that this is going under our nose is truly absurd. And a simple Google check will verify that. The other thing I want to mention briefly, April, is just this reality. The narrative is, oh, we care about fraud. The only reason why we're talking about this is fraud. It has nothing to do with, with the fact that these people are Somalian or Somali or that Trump has been talking about them. It's just we care about fraud. Okay, if that's the truth, I have a couple questions for those people. What do you guys think about Rick Scott, who is, I believe, a current sitting senator who was CEO of a healthcare company that was fined $1.7 billion for defrauding Medicare? Why? Why, why is that not front page right wing pundit news? How about Philip s. Fourmes, whose 20 year prison sentence for a massive 1.3 billion Medicare fraud scheme was commuted in 2020 by then President Donald Day Trump? Or we also have Trevor Milton, the founder of an electric trunk company that was convicted of securities fraud and wire fraud in order to pay 676 million in restitution. He was pardoned by Trump. Trump's companies, Trump's companies themselves have been found guilty in criminal tax fraud schemes. This is not about fraud. You can even look, you can even Google this. National health care fraud takedown. National results in 324 defendants charged in connection with over $14.6 billion. This is not about fraud. This is about narrative building to target a minority group of people and to scapegoat them because Donald J. Trump has called them garbage and scum and because these people want to make America white again. That's what it comes down to. There's no other way around it, in my opinion.

[A]

I also think they are using this as a major distraction for all this stuff coming out about Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein.

[B]

I would totally agree with you on that.

[A]

Which we'll get more into that in a bit.

[B]

Yeah, why don't we play this one clip from Nick on, on, on a podcast talking about this and, and why the, the, the mainstream media, why, you know, the crazy left will never be able to get to him. I found this kind of, I don't know, just kind of weird, I guess. If that's the right, I don't know if that's the right word. Just kind of a bizarre thing to say. He's on the PBD podcast. It's a major right wing podcast here. And here's what he says, why he's untouchable. Here we Go.

[E]

What sucks for them is they're never going to be able to get me. I don't drink alcohol. I don't do drugs. I'm a virgin. I don't have sex with random girls. You're not going to catch me on no sexual allegation charges. I don't have any addictions. I don't have any vices. So what are these people going to get me for? They're done. I'm religious. I believe in God. I'm everything they hate.

[B]

I love that.

[E]

So what are they going to get me for? They can't get me for anything.

[B]

There you go, April. He's untouchable because he's a virgin.

[A]

Well, your honor, we were going to get him on trespass, trespassing charges, but we just found out he's a virgin.

[B]

He's a virgin, so we would like.

[A]

To drop those charges.

[B]

And he loves God. He loves God. So obviously, you know, we can't touch the man of God. So weird.

[A]

It's just weird, honestly, just the way that the. That they think about sex. And it's. It's also a way that I used to think about sex because I come from this world, but, like, it's. It's all black and black and white. Right. You're either a virgin or you're sleeping around with random girls.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, there's. There's. There's a middle there. There's a lot in the middle there.

[B]

I think what's really tragic about this story is that this video gets picked up. First off, I. I would argue, and a news article has come out that Minnesota Republicans worked with Nick Shirley on this video, which in my opinion, is truly deplorable because it's really bad. I mean, anyone who watches it will see right away just how bad it is. It's also embarrassing that our own vice president tweeted out that Nick has done far more useful journalism than any of the winners of the 2024 Pulitzer center prizes. I like, is this where we are in America? I guess. I guess it's. Yeah.

[A]

The answer is yes, they live in the Upside Down. Like, not to bring stranger things back into it, but it's literally like the reality of they just live in a different reality. Nick went and harassed a bunch of daycares, harassed throughout a bunch of numbers that he did not back up with any stats or data, and now is not only getting all this entire Somalian community constantly being threatened, who is already a vulnerable community, but the Trump administration just said yesterday that they are now freezing all Federal funds to daycares in the entire United States.

[B]

That is wild. Think about that. Based on this person's video of propaganda with no hard sources, the President of the United States has frozen all federal funding to daycare centers. Why do other children and other parents have to suffer because of this person's video? How, I mean, how much crueler can you get, right? This collective punishment's insane.

[A]

He didn't discover something new? There have been indictments for this exact same thing already a few years ago and some.

[B]

Sorry, I don't mean to talk over you, but I was just gonna say in some cases, workers of the centers reported the centers for not following procedures. So it's again like, like, it's just at one point in the video, Nick is going into like this, this like office center, pointing out all the different medical centers that, that, that look similar. And he with, without citing any sources, goes, I estimate about $30 million of fraud here has taken place. And that gets, that gets added to their total fraud counter. Literally, he just pulls it out of his butt. He just pulls a number out of his butt, puts it on the screen, and that number goes towards the total reported amount. That then gets picked up by J.D. vance, Benny Johnson, Ali Stuckey, Matt Walsh. And then the President sees it and goes, because of this widespread fraud in Minnesota, we're going to punish the entire nation with, when it comes to daycare centers and getting affordable daycare to parents who need it.

[A]

And what that's going to do is force women out of the workplace, back into the home. One thing I also just want to point out too, like, even if there is fraud, you know, which there has been some fraud in Minnesota in this similar vein, and there's been actual indictments and charges. Right?

[B]

Totally.

[A]

But even, even with that number, 10 million, 30 million, that is pennies to the exploitation that billionaires in our country do. Yes. Like the tax evasion that billionaires are doing is harming everybody, every average American, these MAGA people to like a billion times more than $10 million of Somalian fraud. And I'm not saying that it's good. We, we. I'm not, I'm against all fraud. Like, I don't like cheating the system.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But even, even if that's what they're doing, that is pennies compared to the huge fraud that is the billionaire class system. Like, like the, the, the wealth gap in our country.

[B]

It is, what do they say, it's socialism for the rich and it's capitalism for the poor. Right. I mean, I think the total amount that they came up with was like $111 million of fraud, which I would, I would greatly dispute. That number still doesn't pale in comparison to, again, Rick Scott's healthcare company that was fined 1.7 billion for defrauding Medicare or, or Philip S. Foremost, like I said earlier, $1.3 billion Medicare fraud. Why aren't those highlighted as fraud? And this is, I think this is the important piece that is really key here. I've been thinking a lot about this because I've been reading a book that isn't out yet, but I recommend it for anyone who's into this kind of stuff to pre order it. It's by Jared Stacy. It's called Reality and How Conspiracy Theory Became an American Evangelical Crisis. This book is great. I've had Jared on the New Evangelicals podcast before. I'm a huge fan of his work and in the book he talks a lot about how storytelling and narrative building is, is really key to the human experience. And what makes conspiracy theories compelling to people is that they tell a story oftentimes loaded with myth and narratives that people already believe that reinforce their worldview. And because it's a story, it's much more easy to digest and believe. And that, that sparked this thought in me of like, you know, oftentimes you and I, April, we just, we'll share data like I just shared a bunch of stats about fraud, you know, committed by people who Trump has pardoned. But that's not compelling to people who already believe the narrative that immigrants are bad for society and therefore these immigrants in Minnesota who are defrauding the government should be kicked out. That's a more compelling story to them than just raw data because storytelling is so key to the human experience. And I really think it's important for, and I'm talking to myself here, for us to tell better stories that of course are loaded with data and facts, but to tell them in compelling ways. Right? Because it's when you see things through that lens, it makes sense why people believe this, right? There's a lot of people out there that believe ultimately brown skinned immigrants are hurting society more than helping society. So any place that maga. Right. Can inject racism, xenophobia or anything else, homophobia, racism, whatever. Anytime that they can inject those elements into the stories that they want to tell, it will compel their audience to do wild things, like in some cases, vandalize these daycare centers, as I read in reports earlier today. And I think that's really important for us to recognize right I think MAGA has done, and really right wing media has done a really effective job and I think we have to give credit here, even though I hate to do it, they've done a really effective job at being able to tell compelling stories to their audiences online. Of course, loaded with fact, I'm sorry, loaded with fiction and all kinds of bad things. I'm not saying it's a positive, but they really are master storytellers. They are master storytellers for their audience to get them riled up into this headspace that reinforces the narrative about God and country and other people who aren't like them. And then, you know, here's the evidence of this. It's this YouTuber who did this thing, et cetera. That's my theory.

[A]

Can I just say though, I agree with you. But as just like, I don't know if this is devil's advocate or counterpoint, but it is a lot easier to create more compelling stories when you are not limited by truth. Do you know what I mean? Like, I do think at a certain level the side of truth is at a disadvantage to a degree because we're not going to go out and just spread lies, you know, like, I don't know, like there's already compelling stories. Everything go that he's doing with Jeffrey Epstein, the stuff that's come out about him, the emails, what he said on Access Hollywood, like that is a compelling story that Donald Trump is a predator. You're just dealing with a large group of people that only believes what they want to believe, has been heavily indoctrinated into this right wing propaganda and is going to choose the more sensationalized, hateful version that reinforces what they already believe. Because you're also dealing with a lot of Christians that are in this world that really believe they're good people because they've been told that Christianity and if you're on God's side, you're good people, you are on the side of good. So you have like not just an interest in telling a good story to believe something that's false. You have your entire belief system, maybe your entire identity in choosing to believe these false stories. Because if you for a second believe the truth that the guy you voted for is a rapist and a predator and is exploiting you and is taking away your health care. And like, once you believe that, then you also have to reckon, like reconcile within yourself that you helped elevate a villain and then you have to start questioning your own part in being a villain. And a lot of People would rather bury their heads in the sand. And for the record, I 100% agree with you. There is a. The right has a very powerful infrastructure that gets these narratives out there quickly. They pay their content creators. The left doesn't do that. They're very loyal. They, you know, they, they stick together regardless of truth and fact. But they also have that advantage of not caring about truth and fact that the left does not have.

[B]

I think that's. Yeah, those are really good points. I think you're right for sure. And also, let's face it, social media people want quick sound bites. It's much easier to say a lot of nonsense quickly, right, than to write a whole book on the nuanced, complicated nature of our child care infrastructure and how we can make it better. And, you know, that kind of thing. I think one other, one other piece that's really important, especially for maybe the, the secular part of our audience who didn't grow up how we did. You know, one thing that makes the evangelical Christian fundamentalist world very compelling, because often we get asked this, right? Why do people stay? I mean, for a while I was torn. I was like, okay, I don't really buy all of it, but I'm still compelled to stay. Well, community is one piece for sure. The other piece, though is it gives you a play. It gives you a part to play in a grander narrative about the work of God, the work of, of. Of your, your work as a human being kind of being swept up again into a bigger story. And that's a really important piece. And these things are symbiotic right now with a right wing maga agenda, right? So to question this story is to go against maga, which really is to go against what your pastor probably endorses, which is to go against the God that you believe in. And so there's a lot of pieces that are intertwined here for a lot of folks. And again, it is a compelling story. You know, when you're told there's a God who loves you, this is what you're told. A lot of times if you go to a youth group rally, you're told there's a God who loves you, has a great plan for your life, has purpose and meaning for your life, who wants you to do great things for the kingdom, and you can do that. You can be a part of this church and do this work, you can serve, you can be on the worship team, maybe go into full time ministry and help us build the kingdom. Look, even if that's not necessarily factually True. It's a compelling story. I was compelled. In fact, in some ways, I'm still compelled by that story, even though it looks very different now. Right. I'm still compelled by the idea of working together with a God who wants to create goodness and order on earth. I love that idea. It's beautiful. So this story piece is so key, and that religious side is now embedded with the maga side, and that's why I think people believe this stuff so easily, because to them, it's one and the same. To believe this is to believe the narrative that, yeah, God has created people to live distinctly, you know? Yeah, it's. It's biblical to love your nation and the people inside of it and to protect it from foreign invaders. That's. That's how this logic works.

[A]

Yeah, I know. I agree with you, though. We need to. We need to also tell more compelling stories because you're dealing with people that really don't care about data. I mean, think about how many times have I seen in my comment section that schools have litter boxes in classrooms because kids are identifying as cats.

[D]

It's.

[A]

That story was immediately debunked, but they were. They're still running with it. They still think there are kids identifying as cats and that teachers are putting litter boxes in classrooms. Like, that's just not a thing. Donald Trump still saying transgender for everyone. What the actual.

[B]

What are we talking about? Right.

[A]

It's transgender for everyone. That doesn't make any sense. They've turned trans into a verb that teachers are transing kids, which. Trans. That's not. That's not how any of this works. You're dealing with people that literally don't understand a lot of basic anatomy, a lot of basic biology, a lot of basic, like, hormones and. And just, like, the inner workings of how the human body and brain are made up. They don't understand it. And it's easy when you don't understand something. Instead of taking the time to educate yourself and learn something new, it's easier to just point your finger and say, that's weird. So therefore it's wrong because I don't understand it.

[B]

Yep. Yep. And of course, to distrust, you know, science and mainstream media sources. That's why this Guy Nick, who's 23, has not one credential of journalistic integrity and obviously shows it in his work. That's why he's believed over the government of Minnesota who's like, actually, no, guys, we've been looking into this. We actually have checked into this daycare center. We actually have the Proof. The reason why Nick is believed is because he's a trusted source for them and the government is not. It really is. You know, when you zoom out, it really is pretty remarkable to see how well built this conspiratorial infrastructure really is, because you get it from all angles. Right. The media you consume via talk radio and, and podcasts reinforces that. That, that narrative for you. The religious side reinforces that narrative for you. Right. Hey, don't trust in evolution. Trust in biblical seven day creation. The earth was made in seven literal days. Those scientists, they don't know what they're talking about. Evolution is just a theory. It's definitely not true. Right. That it's reinforced there and you're taught that, you know, a serpent in the garden really talked. That definitely happened. So you're just kind of taught to distrust, like, what's right in front of you in place of something else to.

[A]

Believe really wild, weird things like the rapture.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I genuinely believed at any moment I would hear the sound of a trumpet in the sky and then I would float up to the air naked.

[B]

Right. Of course.

[A]

To go to heaven without having to die.

[B]

Right, right.

[A]

I believed that with my whole heart.

[B]

Right. Yeah. So I think for me, April, and I'm sure for you too, you know, part of what I think we can continue to evolve into on the show is just to do our job, to tell the best stories that we can in compelling ways. Whether it's the story of, you know, how we should not pay attention to some of this stuff and how it's hurting our neighbors, or stories of goodness and hope and love, you know, of. Of just inviting people into better ways. Right. Because we. Look, I was not changed. News flash. I was not changed to go from a position of thinking that being gay was sinful to now having no problem with that at all and thinking I was crazy for thinking that my mind wasn't changed by data or facts. It wasn't changed because someone gave me a spreadsheet and said, look, what you believe is actually more harmful than. Than affirming positions. I was convinced because my first ever gay friend and slash coworker, Joey, became my friend. And he told me his story of how when he was 13, a youth pastor called him an abomination to his face. And I was like, so shell shocked by that reality. I was like 18. I was like, wait, what? I've never experienced that. That was the beginning. That story began to, you know, undo the homophobia I was taught the other story that changed my mind in many Ways was one of my roommates before I was married was a black man. It's still a very good friend. We would talk all the time. And one day we're sitting at breakfast, you know, right before work, and he just casually says, oh, yeah, I get pulled over all the time. I got pulled over yesterday. And I'm like, pulled over, like, for what? He's like, I can get pulled over for, you know, this or that or, you know, they said I didn't use my blinker. When I really did, I was like, are you kidding me? Like, I. I've never gotten pulled over that much, and I speed a lot. Why is that? And he's like, tim, it's obvious why it is. And I was like, oh, my gosh, I've never realized that before. Right. Again, it wasn't data. It was a friend telling me his story. And so I think that. That the power of storytelling is gonna be really essential for us in 2026 with how, like, we communicate, you know, just these stories, frankly.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, it was the same thing for me too. And my brother came out to me when he was 26. I was the first person he told. And he told me, through tears, bawling, that he had known since middle school that he was attracted to the same sex and thought God didn't love him and that there was no way. Like, because we were taught it was an abomination, that they were either that gay people were either possessed by demons or there was some kind of demonic influence making them choose to be gay, that it was impossible for them to be born gay because God would not make something that he hated. And so knowing that he lived with that secret for 20 years broke me. Like, I knew in an instant, like, there's no way that my brother's choosing this. Growing up in the same homophobic world that I grew up in. And so I knew immediately that what I believed was wrong and because I loved my brother, was willing to go down that path to figure out, well, if I'm wrong, then what's right? And it wasn't overnight, but I do think, you know, it's sad, but when you're in these high control, you know, an indoctrinated world where your entire everyone around you believes the exact same things, and any deviation from that path is demonized, and in many cases, literally, like, they think you are being led astray by literal demons, then you have every reason not to question things until it directly impacts you.

[B]

Exactly that. It's that relationship. It's that embodiment it's that connectedness, right, that like, I think undoes some of this really unhealthy thinking that obviously hurts so many people, right? I mean, it's obvious. Even going back to this daycare center, you know, story. There are reports of daycare centers being vandalized. There's a video that we have of, of someone trying to break in with a saw. Like it's hurting people. It's only fueling division and hatred. Right? And so anyway, you know, we didn't want to go super long for this live, but I think it's important.

[A]

I want to make one final point and then we'll move on.

[B]

Oh, please. Yes, go ahead.

[A]

Matthew in the comments also said this is why Ali Bestucky is against empathy, but this is exactly why MAGA and right wing Christians are demonizing empathy. Because they know personal stories. Like when you come in contact with something that directly goes against what you've been taught, right. You are faced then with a dilemma. Do you question what you've been taught because the reality in front of you contradicts it?

[B]

Right?

[A]

Or do you demonize the person in front of you? Say, this has to be some kind of demon. I don't understand it, but it goes against what I believe. So I'm just not even going to go there. And then you count that person out, you completely, you shun them. Those are the options. And MAGA wants you to shun the people in your life in order to protect the belief system. But I believe that what Jesus told us to do based on his life is you shun the law before you shun the people.

[B]

Agreed. I think that's great. I love that.

[C]

Hey everyone, Melinda Hale here, Executive Director of the New Evangelicals. Thanks for listening to our podcast. I just wanted to take a minute to personally invite you to be a part of our community. At tne, we're creating space for people of faith who care about justice, compassion, and living out the teachings of Jesus in real, tangible ways. As a nonprofit organization, not only do we offer thought provoking podcasts, but on our new app and online platform, TNE Connect, we offer free educational resources, additional content and a space to connect with like minded people for meaningful conversations and encouragement. So if what we're doing has been helpful to you, if you've learned something, felt, seen or been challenged to grow, head over to the newevangelicals.com to join TNE Connect or make a donation. Your support means the world to us. Thanks for being a part of the movement.

[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

Okay, April, where do you want to go from here? I mean, we could get into.

[A]

Let's get caught up on our super chats real quick.

[B]

Okay. Always keep me accountable, April. You're always.

[A]

I don't want to go another week regretting.

[B]

Good call. Don't want to give you that kind of anxiety, you know. Go ahead. It's all you.

[A]

AddisonVFD40 Elizabeth29 says, you2 are the best with a heart. Thank you. And then from Chris Birkins, Nick Shirley, loser who needs to get a real job. Hey.

[B]

Yeah, hey. But also, we do content. It's a real job. Okay. It's a real job.

[A]

No. Yeah, that's funny. Beth Dodson says, finally caught you live. My husband says it's a good. It's good. The teachings of Jesus are in red. So white Christian nationalists know what parts to ignore. I mean, you're not wrong. And then Stevie Clown. Until something affects most conservatives personally, they won't think for themselves. Yeah, I think that sadly, that is true for a lot of people.

[B]

Do you want to play the. You want to mention briefly just. Just the Jack Smith video?

[A]

I do, yeah. Yes. So sneakily. Was it New Year's Eve they dropped?

[B]

I think so. Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

It was like late into the evening. Or wait, was it Christmas Eve?

[B]

No, I think it was New Year's Eve.

[A]

New Year's Eve.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, regardless, the Trump administration, I guess, by law, had to release Jack Smith's deposition. And so they did it very quietly. Late at night.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

While people were screaming about Minnesota fraud. They released this because they had to. And it's pretty damning for Donald Trump again. So we just wanted to acknowledge this yes.

[B]

Yes, Here we go. Jack Smith, so did you develop evidence.

[A]

That President Trump was responsible for the.

[B]

Violence at the Capitol on January 6th? So our view of the evidence was that he caused it and that he exploited it and that that it was foreseeable to him and was aware in the days leading up to January 6th that his supporters were angry when he invited them and then he directed them to the Capitol. There you go. There you go. Now we are, we are going to be doing a special live this Tuesday because it's actually January 6th. And we're bringing on scholar Matthew Taylor, who does some amazing work around January 6th and the religious element that was part of it. So if you are someone who is not familiar with terms like the end ar or charismatic theology, you're really going to want to tune in because there's a side of the insurrection that again, goes very underreported, that Matthew Taylor and we would argue played a massive role in what caused the violence. And so you can tune in 12 o' clock Eastern, both on substack and on and on YouTube, a very special live. In the meantime, if you want to get caught up on something, I have. Let's see, we did the video April, didn't we? Where is it? I have it here. After this ad that I have to play because I don't have YouTube Premium on this account, we did a special episode called inside the NAR, the Christian zealots behind the Trump administration on YouTube and it's also on podcasts as well. I recommend if you get time, friends, to take a listen before tuning into the live stream on Tuesday because this will kind of help you understand and set the stage for what we're going to be talking about on January 6th on Tuesday. So that's called the inside the NAR, the Christian zealots behind the Trump Administration. We did a whole hour long deep dive Tuesday.

[A]

Yeah, two days ago.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, you're right. Two days. Sorry. The holidays have my mind all messed up. All messed up, honestly.

[A]

And then like, like New Year's Eve was just yesterday and I, I feel like I learned about the Jack Smith thing earlier than that. And like. No, that was just less. That's so weird.

[B]

That's so funny.

[A]

Yeah. And then also we didn't really, they released the latest round of Epstein stuff, like right before we went live, whenever that was. I don't know when that was. The Tuesday before Christmas.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And there's definitely some very damning stuff in there of Donald Trump, too. And I really think that this whole Minnesota daycare fraud thing, regardless of what's true and is not true, it is. Is a huge distraction of everything that is coming out about Donald Trump.

[B]

Completely. Completely. It's very clear why they have are highlighting this particular story of alleged fraud at these daycare centers and ignoring all the other examples. Right. Because they need to distract their base from the reality that the man that they elected was at a minimum. At a minimum, very close and best friends with one of the most prolific pedophiles of our lifetime. And allegedly was part of that. Right. That's a hard pill to swallow when you think that that's God's candidate. Because what does that tell you about God? Right?

[A]

He is definitely accused in these files by name. He is accused 100% in several different places.

[B]

That's why I said alleged for sure. It's in there. It's in there, yeah.

[A]

Yes, it is in there. So.

[B]

Boy.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, actually someone brought up a good point. Someone mentioned my book, Star Spangled Jesus. Thank you, angel. I do want to say if. Especially for the substack audience who maybe doesn't come from a religious background, if you want. I wrote a book. I actually have it here because I. Of course I do. It's my book. It's called Star Spangled Jesus. It's about my time in Christian nationalism. And it's part memoir and part informative, but just like the mindset that that someone has when they're in that world. And. And I think a lot of people do have questions, but you, it'll just give you a lot of insight into how people can stay in and what it takes to leave that world, which.

[B]

Is really important that people who did not grow up inside the bubble understand. Right? Because we have to know what we're dealing with and just what's going on. Then we can better find, or we can find better narratives and stories to hopefully compel some of those people to get outside of that basement and get some fresh air. So. Okay. Hey, we got one more super chat and again, I don't want to give you a panic attack, so why don't we read it? I'll read this one. No problem, because you've read a lot. This is from Laura Estrada, 7279, former devout Christian Generation Xer here, TNA. LOL. Bring me hope and joy. Now you are progressive and awake. April. I wish I could share some of my journey as a teen in the 90s. Why empaths were always non believers. Thank you so much for the super chat, by the way. All super chats go directly to supporting this show. So thank you so much.

[A]

Okay, thank you.

[B]

Why don't we end on a funny note? We need to. Right. You're with me on this. Okay, let's get to our favorite segment. I think we have a great clip to share for this one. Here we go.

[A]

We Christian. Oh, this is the first weird Christian beep of 2026.

[B]

I've heard this four or five times. I laugh just as hard every single time. Here you go, friends. This is the guy speaking at church. This is maybe a pastor. I'll let his words speak for himself themselves. Here we go. Anybody struggling with bulging dicks. Discs.

[A]

You're.

[B]

You're. You're struggling with a. A disc in your back that is bulging. Call me 13 years old. I don't care. It's hilarious. One more time.

[A]

I saw a video, someone stitched it where he says, anyone here struggling with bulging dicks? And then it pauses and he, like, it cuts to guy in the audience. He raises his hand and then he goes. I mean, bulging disc. And then he's like, no, not me. I don't struggle with that.

[B]

One more time. It's so good. One more time. Anybody struggling with bulging dicks? Dis. I mean, the pad. You have to understand if. Okay. In these moments, it's such a serious moment. There's a keyboard behind this, right? There's probably. This sounds like maybe more charismatic church. So they're going to pray for your healing over something. It's a sacred moment. It's a holy moment. And this pastor is like, anyone here struggling with bulging dicks?

[A]

I know. No hesitation. I mean, that was a clear. That was a clear sound there at the end.

[B]

Clear.

[A]

We love a good.

[B]

I love the Internet, man. I do. I do. Sometimes. Sometimes.

[A]

We have another super chat that we have to get to.

[B]

Okay. Sorry.

[A]

We're on it.

[B]

We're coming. I'm coming. Wait. Okay, here we go.

[A]

Yay.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

From biz, you Byzantine Pratt. January 6th. Still mad Christian nationalist ruined epiphany. I'm going to assume you mean empathy. And it just autocorrected. So thank you so much for the super chat. It means the world. And like we said, friends. January 6th. This upcoming Tuesday, we will be live again on substack and YouTube with a very special stream with a special guest, Matthew Taylor, unpacking the religious side of January 6th and what went into it. And I'm telling you, I'm telling you right now, it will blow your mind. You can start by watching Tuesday's episode that we just dropped Last Tuesday on podcast and on YouTube about the NAR. I will leave that there. You should look into it. It will. It will blow your mind. Okay, cool.

[A]

So you get an early Christmas, late Christmas present. I don't know. But we're going live both Tuesday and Thursday next week. Double lives.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, we're gonna put in the work.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, man. Well, friends, listen, thank you again so much for being here. It means the world. A happy new year to all of you. And again, thank you just for showing up. We loved going live. It's a lot of fun for us, even though it's a lot of work on the back end. And we really enjoy doing this and your participation, reading the chat, the super chats, seeing people who tune in, it just means the world to us. So thank you so much. It's great. I'm looking forward to this year for sure.

[A]

Also, it is epiphany.

[B]

Oh, by the way, did I. Oh, well, my bad.

[A]

Being called out.

[B]

I'm sorry. Call me out.

[A]

I repent holiday on January 6th.

[B]

I sincerely repent of my own ignorance. There. I'll leave that there.

[A]

Just saying. Just saying. There you go. Thank you. Thank you for the correction.

[B]

Yes, we receive it. We receive that correction. All right, friends. Well, I'm Tim Whitaker.

[A]

And I'm April Ajoy.

[B]

We'll see you Tuesday for a special live stream edition of 1-2-6. See ya.

[A]

Yep, bye.