← The Tim & April Show
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- [00:00]
A
You're listening to a new evangelicals production, The Tim and April show, where we unravel faith, politics and culture. Hi, everybody. Welcome to the Tim and April Show. I am April A joy. I am Tim Whitaker and I wish this was a happier day, but I think Tim and I are both pretty mad and upset at the things that happened yesterday. We just full transparency. We were going to do a whole episode on Trump invading Venezuela, them talking about wanting to take over Greenland and that, you know, also awfulness. But then the shooting in Minnesota happened yesterday and we just felt like we needed to talk about that. And I do. I will say there's a lot of misinformation and just straight up propaganda being spread by right wing media about what happened yesterday in Minneapolis. And so hopefully you watching this, like, we want you to like know and know that you know, that you know what actually happened and not to let them gaslight you because the videos are clear and trigger warning. We are going to share a deep analysis by the New York Times that shows every angle, including the one that Trump is trying to push.
- [01:47]
B
Yeah.
- [01:48]
A
And just don't let them gaslight you. You're not crazy.
- [01:53]
C
100%. Yeah. You know, if you're just tuning in, friends, thanks so much for being here. We're live on YouTube and on substack. Make sure to give the video a, like, subscribe to the channel on YouTube if you're on substack watching. Thank you so much. Usually we're a little bit happier in the beginning of a show, but given what's happened, it just feels so heavy and it's funny. April, you and I were talking and I said off air that, you know, one of my, my resolutions for the new year is to not swear as much on the show. Like, no, you know, no, no more F bombs all. And I'm like, oh, already, already I'm being, I'm being tested because the amount of just frustration and anger and we're going to get into this for sure. And I agree, April, look, propaganda is nothing new for this administration, frankly. It's nothing new for the American empire. It's not exclusive to Trump. But it's been really wild to watch so much propaganda be pushed over everything, whether it's January 6th. Right. We went over, we went over how the Trump, Trump administration made a whole alternate website telling the quote, unquote, true story of January 6th, which was full of lies. And this story is no different. You know, this is, this is how empires behave, especially ones that are built on white supremacy. So, yeah, there's a lot to get into on this show for sure.
- [03:08]
A
Yeah. Should we just get right into it?
- [03:11]
C
Yeah, yeah, we should do that.
- [03:13]
A
Yeah. And just a heads up too. We will read all super chats as they come in. We'll try to find a space to read a bunch of them at once. So if we don't get it, get to it right away. We will. Yeah. And okay, so if before we watch this video, I just want to give you a quick, just some basic information on who Nicole Hope Magdalen Macklin. Good. Was. She is the. Sorry, Renee. Nicole Macklin. Good. She is the woman who was killed yesterday by an ICE agent. She was 37 years old, which is the same age as Tim and I. It's, it's like, it's like hitting extra close to home because I've gone to protests, you know, and I, she was a mother and I also have kids, so. But I also want to point out too that she is not the first person that has been killed by ice. There was a black man that was also killed by ICE on New Year's Eve by an off duty ICE agent. So like, I just, I want to be clear, like this is not the first that we've been angry at what ICE has been doing and what this Trump administration has been doing. But. So she was 37 years old. She was a mother of three, her and her current partner, who I believe was her wife because there was a woman on the scene that said that this was her wife. I don't see a lot of mainstream media reporting on, on her, which I hope she's not forgotten in this. As you know, her loved one just died too, but they had just dropped Renee's six year old kid off at school right before this had happened. Yeah, she self described herself as a poet and a writer, a wife and a mom. She was a widow. Her, her most recent husband had died in 2023 and he was the father of her six year old son. And so now that child does not have any parents alive. She has her first husband. So her ex husband described her. Where is this? Sorry, I'm, I'm a little emotional.
- [05:29]
D
Yeah.
- [05:30]
A
Okay. So her ex husband, who was asked not to be named out of safety for their children. So he's the father of her first two children, described her as a good Christian woman. She was a devoted Christian who took part in youth mission trips to Northern Ireland when she was younger. She loved to sing, participating in a chorus in high school and studying vocal performance in college. She is alumni from Old Dominion University in Virginia. And I used to live like right by that, that university when I lived in Virginia.
- [06:00]
C
Yeah.
- [06:01]
A
Her mother has also came out and said Renee was one of the kindest people I've ever known. She was extremely compassionate. She's taken care of people all her life. She was loving, forgiving and affectionate. She was an amazing human being. And as far as she was a US Citizen, born in Colorado, was currently living in Minneapolis and appears to have never have been charged with anything involving law enforcement beyond a traffic ticket.
- [06:28]
C
Yep.
- [06:29]
A
So I, that's who when we start showing these videos, I want y' all to have an image of the human being that was impacted and killed by this. So this video now that we're going to show you is from the New York Times where they analyze three different angles of footage. It's, it comes across very clear. I want to also say the Washington Post also came with the same conclusion with their own frame by frame video analysis. So we are going to share this video trigger warning. You do hear the shots. You see the car take off and crash. You don't see her. And we debated on whether or not we wanted to show this, but there's just so much propaganda around what actually happened that we both felt it was important for you to have the facts of what happened with your own eyes.
- [07:25]
C
Yep. And I will say in this video there is a short moment where you can see Renee in the car after she was shot. It's not long, but it is in this video. So just be aware. This is about a three and a half long minute video. We're going to let it play fully without stopping it, let you kind of get the full thing and then April and I will give our thoughts. So here we go.
- [07:44]
D
On Wednesday in Minneapolis, a federal agent fatally shot a motorist, 37 year old Renee Nicole Good. Trump administration officials said these were, quote, defensive shots fired because the officer was.
- [07:58]
E
Being run over and a woman attacked them and those surrounding them and attempted to run them over.
- [08:04]
D
But our analysis of bystander footage filmed from different angles appears to show the agent was not in the path of the victim's SUV when he fired three shots at close range. Here's how events unfolded moments before the shooting. The victim's maroon SUV is stopped in the middle of the street. Multiple unmarked federal vehicles are idling nearby. Secretary Noem alleged the motorist, quote, was blocking the officers in. Bystanders are blowing whistles and yelling at federal agents. Then federal vehicles start moving toward the maroon SUV with sirens and lights blaring. A federal agent Films the scene on his phone. The driver rolls forward slightly, turning left, then stops and waves for others to go ahead. Two agents exit this silver pickup and walk toward the vehicle. Moments later, shots are fired. Let's look at the scene again more closely. This is the agent who shoots the driver. He walks around the car, filming and disappears from view. Other agents pull up and order the driver to exit her vehicle. One of them grabs at the door handle and reaches inside the SUV reverses, then turns right, apparently attempting to leave. At the same time. The agent filming crosses toward the left of the vehicle and grabs his gun. He opens fire on the motorist and continues shooting as she drives past. The moment the agent fires, he is standing here to the left of the SUV and the wheels are pointing to the right, away from the agent. This appears to conflict with allegations that the SUV was ramming or about to ram the officer. President Trump and others said the federal agent was hit by the suv, often pointing to another video filmed from a different angle. And it's true that at this moment in this grainy, low resolution footage, it does look like the agent is being struck by the suv. But when we synchronize it with the first clip, we can see the agent is not being run over. In fact, his feet are positioned away from the suv. The SUV crashes into a white car parked down the road.
- [10:43]
A
What the.
- [10:44]
D
A bystander runs toward the collision. The federal agents on scene do not appear to rush to provide emergency medical care. Eventually, the agent who shot the motorist approaches the vehicle. Seconds later, he turns back around and tells his colleagues to call 911.
- [11:03]
A
Shame.
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C
You shot someone.
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A
You shot someone.
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D
Agents block several bystanders who attempt to provide medical care, including one who identifies himself as a physician.
- [11:16]
C
I go check a p. No, back up now. I'm a physician.
- [11:23]
D
At the same time, several agents, including the agent who opened fire, get in their vehicles and drive off, apparently altering the active crime scene.
- [11:36]
F
Wow.
- [11:37]
D
It's.
- [11:38]
C
It's. It's clear as day. I mean, literally, we have three different angles. We have all kinds of footage. I don't know where to start with this kind of stuff. This is the only word I can think of. It's just evil. It just is. It's an evil thing. That person shot a woman at point blank range and then walked away and told other people to call 911 and fled the scene. What is going on in your soul as a human being to somehow justify that action? To think that, to be so callous towards other people that you can shoot them like that and just walk away. And then you have a physician who's saying, I can help. And these Gestapo agents are. No, absolutely not. They don't rush to offer aid. I believe that there was about a 10 or 15 minute long gap between when the ambulance and firefighters are able to arrive because of how traffic was all blocked off. What is going on? You know, it's. Ma'. Am. I mean, wow.
- [12:55]
E
Yeah.
- [12:55]
A
And I. I've seen some legal experts and attorneys weigh in on this too. There are rules for federal agents using a weapon at a vehicle. Someone in the comments brought it up too. But there has to be no other reasonable means of defense to exist before you are allowed to use a deadly weapon.
- [13:21]
C
Yeah.
- [13:22]
A
And that includes being able to move out of the way of a vehicle.
- [13:26]
C
Right.
- [13:26]
A
Like you're not. You're. If someone is fleeing the scene, you cannot shoot them for the sake of getting them to stop. Like you. It has to be in self defense like those. We have laws in place for a reason. And so he clearly was able to get out of the way.
- [13:44]
C
So he was out of the way. He was out of the way.
- [13:47]
A
And in that one video, he is the one who walked around and got in front of her vehicle. She did not go out of her way to run him down, as some maga are claiming there is. But even if. Even if that's what she was trying to do, which the video shows clearly that she was just trying to leave. But even if that's what she was trying to do, you have to be able to prove that there was no other option that you could take in order to use lethal force. And the video shows he was able to move. Cause he did well and he was fine. He walked away. He left the scene.
- [14:29]
C
Yeah, yeah. There's one bullet hole in the windshield and there were three shots fired. So the other two shots were shot through her passenger window.
- [14:38]
A
You're not pulling his gun. If you watch that scene. He pulled his gun. Before she starts driving this, you know, we have to.
- [14:46]
C
We have to zoom out for a minute, you know. And April, I know you and I are kind of late to the party, broadly speaking, because we grew up in a very white evangelical conservative world. Right. But this is, this is the. This is how America has always acted. Right. For the black community. They're like, yeah, like, yeah, yeah. This has been happening to us for centuries. Right. It's state sanctioned violence. That's what this is. To enforce white supremacy and empire, like hard stop. And white people can get in the way of that and become a Target very quickly as well as we're finding out here. And it is so frustrating. And, you know, I'm not sure if angering is even the right, is even the right word for me, but it's just so discouraging that 80% of our former faith tradition voted for this. Trump was super clear on the plan before he ran for president. He wants to get these so called, you know, bad, evil immigrants, the ones that are poisoning the blood of society, out of our country. Mass deportations. What do we think is going to happen when you have rent a cops who aren't even fully trained, given a gun, who obviously have to hold some kind of racial prejudice in their heart to even start doing ICE jobs? What do we think is going to happen when you're sending the federal military or federal agents to states without their permission, without their approval, to run amok in neighborhoods like they have no accountability? This is authoritarianism. I think what's wild, April, is that you and I were often taught as white evangelicals in that world to be afraid of tyranny, to be afraid of authoritarianism, to be afraid of the federal government that is gonna encroach on states rights. And now we're watching those same people vote for the policies and the regime that is doing the very thing they tried to warn us of.
- [16:43]
A
Yeah.
- [16:44]
C
And people are dying.
- [16:46]
A
Yeah. And I want to point out in that video too, one of the ICE agents was trying to get into her car. Yep. And we have seen tons of videos already of ICE agents assaulting women, throwing them on the ground. There was a video a few weeks ago of them dragging a pregnant woman on the ground.
- [17:08]
C
Yep.
- [17:08]
A
So I'm sure she went into fight or flight like I wouldn't want. And if an ICE agent was trying to get into my car. And here's the thing, I've seen some, some MAGA that were like, oh, she was a US Citizen, she had nothing to fear. That is a blatant lie. ICE has targeted tons of US citizens and, and illegally detained them.
- [17:28]
C
Totally.
- [17:29]
A
Like I want, I want to also quickly read, there is an eyewitness account that the Minnesota Public Radio. So NPR interviewed a woman who was there and, and witnessed the whole thing. And do you want to say something real quick?
- [17:48]
C
Well, do you want to play like Christine Gnomes response first before we get to that, or do you want to just play the. Read the witness statement now? It's up to you. I'm just trying to think of the order of this because there's, there's so much.
- [17:57]
A
Yeah, well, Let me read this real quick, and then we'll get to Christy Noms, because I think this further shows how clear the situation is.
- [18:03]
D
Sounds good.
- [18:04]
A
Okay, so an eyewitness named Caitlin Callinson said she was walking down Portland Avenue with her partner when she saw ICE agents. She said they tried to zoom their car out of a snow bank, but were stuck. So I guess there was some vehicle that was stuck in some snow bank. At some point. She said other ICE vehicles showed up, leading neighbors to believe it might be an ICE enforcement action. People showed up, and some began blowing whistles. Quote, people in our neighborhood have been terrorized by ICE for six weeks. We want our neighbors safe. So when we see a group of ICE vehicles, people in the community are showing up and saying, this is not okay. Collinson said one person, the woman who was shot later. So Renee drove her vehicle perpendicular to the lanes of traffic on Portland Avenue south of the ICE vehicles. By that point, Callinson said the vehicle stuck in the snow had been freed. Some of them were leaving, and they just went around her. But ICE gave her orders to leave, while at the same time, another ICE person said, get out of the car. And he reached for the door handle. And then there was an ICE agent. Right. Then there was an ICE agent in front of her vehicle, making it difficult for her to leave as she had been ordered to do. She said she turned the steering wheel toward the right. The person was grabbing her door handle. The ICE officer who was in front of her vehicle shot once from the front and twice from the side, hitting her maybe three feet away at max. Because she was shot and she was already trying to leave. Her foot was on the accelerator, and she crashed into a telephone pole.
- [19:32]
C
Yeah.
- [19:34]
A
So she was given conflicting orders. Some ICE agents were ordering her to leave while someone else was trying to get her out of the car.
- [19:44]
C
Yep. Again, what do we expect when you have the administration admitting that some of these people aren't even out of training yet? Which, by the way, I mean, I don't put a lot of weight in their training to begin with. Let me be very clear. The whole idea of ice. Yeah. And the whole idea of ICE as a whole is ridiculous. It should be abolished. So I'll be very clear about that. But on top of that, you're sending people into these places with no training, no. No awareness or respect for the law. I mean, no due process, clearly. Just execution. By what? What this rent a cop thinks he should be able to do whenever he wants. It's ridiculous. And to have the regime as we're going to play in a little bit here, different clips, and go through some images, you know, back this and spread the lie is another. It's another story on top of a mountain of stories of how these are not truth tellers. They are rewriting reality in real time. And for some reason, somehow the. Their base believes it. I've seen the comments, not just from body counts, from, like, real accounts. Well, if you don't try to run over an ICE agent, this wouldn't have happened. Well, she was in the way. Well, this was on her. It's like. It's like, have you seen the video footage?
- [20:53]
D
Have you.
- [20:53]
C
Are you looking at the same thing? It's. It's unreal.
- [20:57]
A
And they. This is. These are the same people that just a few days ago were calling for justice for Ashley Babbitt for January6, saying that she didn't deserve to die. Which I agree her death was tragic. But, like, you can't say just order the law. Like, follow orders and you'll be fine. And then not say the same thing for an in. Like a literal insurrection.
- [21:20]
C
Right.
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A
And not to mention the White House posted on their official White House account rewriting the whole history of what happened on January 6th.
- [21:30]
C
Yes.
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A
Which is infuriating.
- [21:32]
C
To be very clear, in case we forget, Ashley Babbitt stormed the Capitol building, was trying to break through a window with an agent who had a gun drawn, giving her multiple warnings not to come through during an insurrection. Okay. This isn't the case of she's trying to flee and some. Some Capitol Police officer chased her down and gunned her down. No, she was literally disobeying a clear command to get the heck out of the Capitol Building, to stop encroaching on space, where presumably lawmakers were right. Which, again, I want to say, horrible, tragic. And that's on Trump's hands. That's on maga's hands for spreading this lie that the election was stolen. I don't want death of any of my neighbors, including my MAGA neighbors. But, my gosh, to see the world go from that world, go from. Ashley Babbitt was a martyr. She was unjustly killed. Or Kyle Rittenhouse was a hero for what he did, killing people to. Oh, my gosh, this woman deserved it. Because it's like, it's. The mental gymnastics are wild, but there is a logic, and the logic is it's always in service of their power and their control. It's always in service of their empire building. Right. When the government is wielded as a Weapon for them, it's everything is justifiable. There is nothing wrong the Empire can do. Right. But the second political party, who, by the way is still very Empire focused, gets into office and all of a sudden it's the opposite. Right. So it's just really, it's. It's important to recognize what's happening in this moment.
- [22:56]
A
Yeah. So now that you've seen the video, you've heard the eyewitness report, it seems very, very clear that this killing was completely unjustified. This was just murder. This woman did not. There was no justification for killing this woman.
- [23:12]
C
Yeah.
- [23:12]
A
So let's see what Kristi Noem had to say. And this is hours later, after she was able to get all the quote, unquote facts. Right.
- [23:22]
C
Right. Okay, I'll play it.
- [23:27]
E
I've spoken to the President today on the situation here on the ground. I also just got off the phone a little while ago with Governor Walz and spoke to him. As I want to reiterate first with all of you, the facts of what happened today. At 10:25am Central Time, immigration and Customs Enforcement were carrying out lawful operations here in Minneapolis because of the adverse weather that Minneapolis has seen in recent snow. One of the vehicles became stuck and ensnared in the snow. Law enforcement were attempting to push out this vehicle. And when a mob of agitators that were harassing them all day began blocking them in, shouting at them, and impeding law enforcement operations, ICE officers and agents approached the vehicle of the individual in question, who was blocking the officers in with her vehicle. And she had been stalking and impeding their work all throughout the day. ICE agents repeatedly ordered her to get out of the car and to stop instructing obstructing law enforcement, but she refused to obey their commands. She then proceeded to weaponize her vehicle and she attempted to run a law enforcement officer over. This appears as an attempt to kill or to cause bodily harm to agents, an act of domestic terrorism. The ICE officer, fearing for his life and the other officers around him and the safety of the public, fired defensive shots. He used his training to save his own life and that of his colleagues. He was treated at a local hospital, has been released and is now with family. I encourage the American people at this point in time to pray for him, but also to pray for the deceased's family and her loved ones.
- [25:04]
C
I just want to know. We saw the video of the murderer walking away without a scratch on him. Why did he presumably go to the hospital? For what injuries? For what injuries? He walked away from killing A woman and instructed other people to call 911, got into a car and drove away.
- [25:23]
A
She is blatantly lying, blatantly lying. We all saw the video and thank God there's video, because I do hope, if there's a silver lining in this, that some people can wake up and see how blatantly this administration just lies through their teeth when they say, when we see something with our own eyes, that is one thing. And they come out and say, no, no, no, it's this other thing. Do not let them gaslight you. They are gaslighting the American people. Like that is exactly what they are doing right now.
- [26:01]
C
This is, this is the, this is the playbook, right? This is the same group that declared the election in 2020 was stolen, right? With no evidence, despite Trump's own Supreme Court overturning or ruling against him with various cases. It, you know, it's kind of like, I think about this, where they've been building this foundation for over a decade now of creating these, remember, alternative facts. Remember that, that, that, that, that, that term that they coined back in 2016, right? They've been building this house of quote, unquote, alternative facts, which, AKA our lies. And now the house is so big, it's so built out that every new lie is just standing on top of another lie. And it's like, you know, why, why am I surprised by this? Why am I surprised that Kristi Noem is lying about this? Given the track record of this administration, given the fact that Donald Trump says more untruthful things than factual things, why am I so surprised? We should not be surprised at all by the behavior of this fascist, Christian, fascist, authoritarian regime that is tyrannical and weaponizing the federal government to do its racist, xenophobic and misogynistic and homophobic bidding. I mean, that's just the reality. And I'm with you, April. The reason why we talk so emphatic on this show is because in the age of propaganda, you have to tell the truth plainly. You have to, you have to be so clear eyed in these moments of, no, this is what actually happened. That officer was not in danger. His feet were not even close to the tires of that car she was churning away. Two bullets went through the passenger side window. I don't care what the government or what the official narrative is. It's hogwash. It's hogwash. It's nonsense. We have to tell the truth. We have to.
- [27:58]
A
Yeah, I do think maybe calling your representatives, I don't know how much that helps, but, Kristi Noem deserves to be impeached. I mean, Trump deserves to be impeached for what he just did for a myriad of reasons.
- [28:13]
C
They should be prosecuted, man. They should be imprisoned. These people need to be imprisoned for the carnage and for the illegality of their. Of so many of their actions.
- [28:23]
D
Oh, my gosh.
- [28:24]
C
I mean. And by the way, can I say one more thing briefly, then I'll stop ranting. One of the biggest mistakes that we made in America recently was letting Trump get away with the insurrection. There was no prosecution. Remember, the Supreme Court in Colorado overturned him. Not being able to be on the ballot like there. We had a moment. You look at what they did in Brazil to Boston Arrow. That man's in prison. He staged his own insurrection shortly after January 6th. They prosecuted him. We did not do that in America. And we are reaping what we've sown in this country. And frankly, not all but a lot of Democratic lawmakers are responsible for that. Trying to play, oh, well, democracy. But we have to play nice. Big mistake with these people. Humongous mistake.
- [29:05]
A
It. Honestly, it makes me so mad, I can't think about it. Because we had a chance. Mitch McConnell, if he could have pushed through that impeachment on the Senate floor, we wouldn't be dealing with this right now.
- [29:17]
C
100%. 100%. And Renee would arguably still be alive right now with her son.
- [29:23]
E
Yeah.
- [29:27]
B
Hey, everyone, this is Melinda Hale, the executive director of the New Evangelicals. Listen. Every day, we hear from people who feel isolated, disillusioned, and hurt by a version of Christianity that has been hijacked by politics and nationalism. And yet they still long for a faith that is rooted in love, justice, and compassion. And that's why the New Evangelicals exist, because we believe there is a better path forward. We're creating resources, hosting conversations, and we're building communities for people who want to reclaim Christianity and stay rooted in the teachings of Jesus. But building a movement like this takes time, it takes energy, and it takes financial support. So if this podcast or our YouTube, our educational offerings or community space or anything that we've created any has impacted you, would you consider becoming a donor? Even a gift of $5 makes a huge difference for small organizations like this. Your support helps us to continue empowering people to put their faith into action by rejecting Christian nationalism and to live in a way that shows people how to truly love our neighbors together, I know that we could build something beautiful. So visit theneweevangelicals.com support to give. Today. You can find the Link right in our show notes. Thank you for standing with us.
- [30:44]
A
All right, let's. Speaking of liars, let's read Trump Truth Social post.
- [30:50]
C
Oh, good. Yeah, why not, why not bring him in the mix? When I think of empathy and love and kindness and, you know, I think of Trump, this is, this is what, maybe two or three hours after the videos took off viral.
- [31:02]
A
Yeah. Okay. Yes. So this was before the Christy Gnome video that we just watched. This is what Trump says, and I will say he Attached. Attached to this was video of that far away shot.
- [31:17]
C
Yeah.
- [31:18]
A
From like where it's like half obstructed by a tree. And I will say from that angle, it does kind of look like her car hits him, by the way. He jumps back. But as, as we saw in the New York Times analysis, side by side, he. He was not hit.
- [31:35]
C
Right.
- [31:35]
A
He was not struck. He was out of the way.
- [31:37]
C
Right. Facts matter.
- [31:39]
A
But of course, they're not sharing those videos. They're sharing the. The grainy one from like a block down, down the way. So anyway, this is what Trump says on Truth Social. I have just viewed the clip of the event which took place in Minneapolis, Minnesota. It is a horrible thing to watch. The woman screaming was obviously a professional agitator. And the woman driving the car was very disorderly, obstructing and resisting, who then violently, willfully and viciously ran over the ICE officer who seems to have shot her in self defense. Based on the attached clip, it is hard to believe he is alive but is now recovering in the hospital. The situation is being studied in its entirety. But the reason these incidents are happening is because the radical left is threatening, assaulting, and targeting our law enforcement officers and ICE agents on a daily basis. They are just trying to do the job of making America safe. We need to stand by and protect our law enforcement officers from this radical left movement of violence and hate. President Donald J. Trump. Another blatant lie. That man was not run over. We watched him walk away unharmed.
- [32:53]
C
Yeah. From shooting a woman in cold blood. Right. I mean, he was so unharmed that he was able to be that callous. Still, to walk away from murdering a woman who was trying to follow conflicting orders.
- [33:07]
A
The woman driving away was very disorderly.
- [33:10]
E
Yeah.
- [33:10]
A
Because she was probably dead Right. When she was taking off. Like, the reason it slams is she gets shot.
- [33:18]
C
Yeah. Well, there was a moment where Kristi Noem argued that the officer, for the sake of public safety, pulled out his weapon. You know what's not safe? Killing someone who's in the driver's seat of A vehicle that's on and moving, that's not safe for anyone. He could have killed even more people with that. Right. Because you watch the car just goes right into a telephone pole. Clearly at a minimum she was unconscious. Right. So you're essentially sending down a two ton bullet down the highway with someone behind the driver's seat who you just killed. How is that thinking about public safety? It's obviously not. And it's frustrating that we have to spend the time on this show to unpack the blatant horse manure, the blatant sewage that comes out of these people's mouths.
- [34:04]
A
And him blaming this on the left is also ridiculous because he's the one that has been deploying the military on US citizens. He is the one that is putting more money into ICE this year than any other year previously. And they're giving like, I think it's like $50,000 like bonus, like sign on bonus. So who knows the type of people that are attracted. They don't have like they don't go to police academy, they're not trained. They are terrorizing not just immigrants, but citizens. And the only reason people are standing up to them is because we have hearts and empathy.
- [34:45]
C
So it says here, this is September 16, 2025 from the National Immigration Law Center. A new law gives Federal agencies $170 billion for anti immigrant enforcement, detention and deportation. Wasn't the food stamps or the SNAP benefits I think to fund it would cost 100 billion. And Mike Johnson said we don't have the money for it. Right. This is the great charade of living in the world's wealthiest country that was built on the exploitation of other people in other countries is that we have more wealth and money than anyone else in the world. We have 25% of the world's wealth and 3% of the world's population. And we are fed the lie that we can't afford to give citizens, heck, anyone documented or not, affordable health care in this country. We can't give them affordable education, we can't guarantee livable wages. But hey, you know what we can do? We can give $170 billion to a bunch of rent a cops to and give them guns to just invade random streets in suburbia or in Chicago or in cities that we don't like to rain terror on people and to racially profile other folks assuming that they're automatically illegal or undocumented and then deport them to God knows where or put them in a concentration camp in America.
- [36:07]
A
And not to mention like whatever, what happened to Abrego Garcia. He was deported to El Salvador prison.
- [36:15]
C
Yes.
- [36:15]
A
That's like the, like one of the most inhumane prisons, and it was on administrative error.
- [36:21]
C
This is, you know, a lot of people, and I, I, I, I, I will say this as myself, as someone who grew up very conservative, very evangelical, very Christian. When I had this kind of awakening with Trump, right, I thought, oh, my gosh, there's a bug. This is a bug in the system. Something went wrong with white evangelicalism. Something went wrong with my faith tradition. And I'm sad to say, as I've been able to do the deep dives and read the history and, you know, have we. We've had amazing guests on this show, like Matthew Taylor on Tuesday. I am convinced now it's not a bug, it's a feature. The system of white evangelicalism and the whole evangelical industrial complex is working as designed to maintain and to support the power of empire. Baptized in a shallow theology and baptized in Christian iconography. That's. It is working as designed. And I think the reason I'm more convinced of that than ever is that white evangelicals have been polled since Trump got elected last year. They had the opportunity as a, as a voting block to tell people that, actually, we regret our decisions. But In September of 2025, 77% of white evangelicals polled approved of the job Trump was doing in the first hundred days of office, or however many days it was. That was the, that was the, that group was the highest religious group out of any group to give approval to Trump. So, no, this is not a bug. Friends, we are a decade into Trump. The white evangelical complex is acting as expected. It is doing the job it was designed to do. And that's a hard pill for me to swallow. I'm sure it is for you, too, April, and for a lot of other folks who might have grown up that way, or maybe who are still in that system, but maybe are more moderate, but it's just a reality. It's, it's operating as expected.
- [38:12]
A
Yeah.
- [38:16]
C
Where you want to go to Tim Waltz or how about the mayor of Minneapolis? I think there's some good news there, right?
- [38:23]
A
You have two videos from him, right?
- [38:24]
C
I do, yeah. I have, I have his first video, and I have a second video. I will warn people there is, there's some cursing in this video. So if you have some, maybe young ones listening, you might want to skip bass. But this is what the mayor said. This is his words. He was asked about what happened with the shooting in his city, and here's what he said.
- [38:43]
F
They are already trying to spin this as an action of self defense. Having seen the video of myself, I want to tell everybody directly that is bullshit. This was an agent recklessly using power that resulted in somebody dying, getting killed. Two ice. Get the fuck out of Minneapolis. We do not want you here. Your stated reason for being in this city is to create some kind of safety and you are doing exactly the opposite, man.
- [39:22]
C
I mean, look, I am, I am of the belief and I will. Let me just be vulnerable with you, April, for a minute. As someone who lives in New Jersey, by Philadelphia, where you hear people talking like the F word is like saying the or, and I mean it's just thrown around all the time. And as someone who is working on, you know, when on air, minimizing that kind of language, I will say there are times where I think that kind of language is needed. And I'm happy to hear it from the, from the mayor because you need that. That word is an emphasis. It states something of like, absolutely not. I am so angry with you that I'm going to be crass. I'm going to say something that will offend people for the sake of the bigger point. And I think it's needed. I absolutely think it was needed here. So props to him.
- [40:07]
A
I completely agree. I love that he said that. But obviously some people were mad that he said the F bomb.
- [40:14]
E
Oh, really?
- [40:15]
A
This is what this was his response when asked about.
- [40:20]
C
So good.
- [40:22]
A
I've seen a lot of Republicans here in Washington criticizing those comments, saying that you're escalating tensions with that.
- [40:29]
E
Can you respond to them and what.
- [40:30]
A
Do you say to them tonight, people who criticize those comments?
- [40:34]
F
I'm so sorry if I offended their Disney princess ears. But here's the thing. If we're talking about what's inflammatory, on the one hand you got someone who dropped an F bomb, and on the other hand you got someone who killed somebody else. F bomb, killing somebody. I think the more inflammatory action is killing somebody. And so once again, let's be real and just honest and straight up about what's happening here. This is not okay. The way they're coming into cities, not just Minneapolis, but around the country is not okay. Whether you're a Democrat or a Republican, you should understand the importance of constitutional law enforcement. You should understand the importance of not discriminating based on race and randomly plucking people off the street because they're Somali or Latino. And especially from what we've seen, you should also understand the importance of de escalating tense situations, not killing people and yanking at a gun. And so, again, I'm not going to preempt the investigation. It is important that we do that. And at the same time, you know, you want to make a big deal about an F bomb, let's make a big deal about our Constitution. I think that's probably the better route.
- [41:49]
C
Really good. Really good.
- [41:53]
A
I think I'm in love, honestly, Disney princess years like that. He's so right.
- [42:02]
C
And also, we know how rich it is to hear MAGA and Christian conservatives be like, oh, he used the F bomb. Really? You know that Trump called Governor Walsh. He used the R word. You know that, right? You know that, that, that, that Trump is on a hot mic bragging about grabbing women. You know that Trump says crass things all the time.
- [42:22]
A
He's also dropped the F bomb before, too.
- [42:25]
C
I can guarantee you.
- [42:26]
A
I can guarantee you Orange Lord and savior, right?
- [42:30]
C
I mean, there's no principle here, right? It's. It's always, it's always in service to whatever gives them power, whatever gives them control. And it is hilarious. But I do think, I do think it is a good. It's a good snapshot of where we are as a culture, too, how we really glorify violence to the point where we can be desensitized, right? To the fact that someone was shot at point blank range. But what can't you do on the air? You can't say the F word on cnn, but you can show the bloody footage. You can show the bloody airbag. That's okay.
- [43:03]
A
But.
- [43:03]
C
But y' all protect the ears of children and adults. You can't say curse words. I just think it's very, you know, it's very. What was it? Was it Tony Campolo? You know, he's like an early social justice advocate. I think he passed away, but he went kind of viral back in the day because he went up to a youth group and he essentially said, like, you know, by the time I get done saying this, a thousand or so children will have died from starvation. And that's horse bleep. And what's more sad is that you're more offended that I said horse bleep than about the fact that a thousand children died from starvation. Right? And it just highlights the point of, like, what, what, what really offends you in that statement, right? Same thing here, in my opinion.
- [43:45]
A
It's also the same thing, too. They get so mad at the idea that a trans person exists.
- [43:50]
C
Totally.
- [43:50]
A
Like, they lose sleep over it. Literally has no impact on their life. Whatsoever.
- [43:56]
C
Whatsoever.
- [43:58]
A
But don't care that ICE is terrorizing not just immigrants, American citizens. Also I want to point out too, he brought up, the mayor, brought up Somalians in that clip. And I think that Nick Shirley, who went into Minnesota last week, had that viral video from daycares where he was blaming fraud from Somalians, which we covered last week. Right. As a result of that, of him going and harassing daycares.
- [44:34]
C
Yep.
- [44:35]
A
Trump then sent 2,000 more agents to Minnesota to get rid of immigrants that they said had all this fraud. And Nick Shirley has some responsibility for what just happened.
- [44:50]
C
Not even a question. Not. And don't forget, we have data. They estimate between 75 to 80% of all of the immigrants that have been captured have absolutely no criminal record or any kind of history of criminality in America. 75 to 80%. This is not. Look, I don't wanna sound redundant, but hopefully it helps. It's never about the things that those in power say it's about. Right. It's not about liberating the people of Venezuela. It's about the oil. Although this time Trump was clear about that, which was actually nice to hear. You know, a megalomaniacs say the quiet part out loud, that, hey, I actually talked to the oil execs before I talked to Congress. Okay, well thanks for being honest for once. Right. It's not about, it's not about criminality. It's about getting brown skinned people out of the country to maintain a white majority nation. Because if it was about criminality, April, we know where the data is. Right. We know that, that undocumented immigrants are half as likely to commit crimes than their native born counterpart. We know that the overwhelming majority of mass shooters are young white men. We know that. Right. It's not about that though. It's about the brown skinned person that doesn't look, act or think like us and is now a threat. Right. To our way of life, to our nation. It's not our nation plural. It's our nation as in the, in group, the nationalists. This is our country. Everyone else has to get the F out of here. That's, that's the logic behind this.
- [46:14]
A
Yeah. I also just want to point out, and then we gotta, we have, we got more stuff. We got more stuff. ICE has killed three people now, four people with Renee in the last five months and not, not in custody, like just shot them and killed them. Silverio Villegas Gonzalez, who was a father from Mexico who worked as a cook in Chicago, was killed in September trying to flee from officers in December A border patrol agent killed 31 year old Mexican citizen while trying to detain him in Rio Grande, Texas. And then on New Year's Eve, I mentioned this earlier, an off duty ICE agent, he was off duty, he heard shots. The story I think goes that someone was shooting shots in the air to celebrate the New Year. He heard shots and went to investigate himself. Off duty ICE officer took his, his, the weapon that they gave him for ICE and killed a man named Keith Porter in Los Angeles. That's now four people that have been killed by ICE in the last five months. And that does not include the 32 people that died in ICE custody in 2025 alone. Which is the most that have been killed. Yeah, here's the graph. The most that had been killed since the early 2000s. What year is that? What does that say?
- [47:37]
C
2004-2004-2004-2004. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Yep. I mean I just wonder, human beings, I wonder where the pro lifers are. Yeah, I mean, where's Ali Stuckey? Isn't she really concerned about the sanctity of all life? At America Fest recently, she spoke. I think we played the clip or I think Melinda Hale, the executive director of tne, did a response to it on Instagram. But she makes the point of like, you know, I always say that politics matter because people matters or no, politics matter because policy matters, because people matter, because all people are made in the image of God. Really. Ally, you've been quite quiet on this stuff. Some interesting, you know, it's so interesting how quiet the pro life crowd gets when it comes to brown skinned immigrants and their deaths or when it comes to, in this case, a white woman who, who was trying to flee ICE agents who was shot at point blank range. And we'll get into Ali's response and some others later on in the show. So thanks for watching.
- [48:33]
A
But it is, and this, and this doesn't even count the like the trauma that a lot of people are going to have to endure for, for years to come. The people that have been shot at but haven't died. The children that were zip tied in the middle of the night because ICE was raiding their apartments.
- [48:51]
C
Exactly.
- [48:52]
A
I don't understand how any decent human being can be aware of what ICE is doing. They are terrorizing children and, and be okay with it.
- [49:05]
C
Someone in the chat earlier asked, and I'm not sure if I can find it here and pull it up, but they asked, you know, how do like evangelicals and Christians, like, you know, how do they not see all the lies that are happening. And I want to really, just maybe for a minute, April, we can just break this down. Because for people who didn't grow up inside the bubble, I get that question, right? Like, I don't get it. How can so many conservative Christians look at what's happening over and over again, the blatant discrepancy between the words of this regime and the video footage, and then believe the words of the regime? You have to understand that white evangelicalism, this is not exclusive to this sect of Christian thinking. This can be for any group. But in white evangelicalism, authority and hierarchy trumps what's in front of your eyes. You're always reinforced with the notion that what you see isn't really what you see and that you need leaders to interpret it for you. And there's also a notion of having to suspend your rational belief at the altar of biblical literalism. So these are the same people who will say, no, no, no, don't believe in the science or in evolution.
- [50:09]
A
Just.
- [50:10]
C
Just believe that the earth was made in seven literal days or six literal days. No, no, no, don't believe that animals don't talk. The Bible says a serpent talked. So obviously that really happened. So your whole mind is conditioned to suspend reality easily if the people that you trust in authority tell you to. And I think that's why white evangelicalism, in particular, among many other factors, is so primed for authoritarianism, because in their churches, the pastor gives you truth. The pastor tells you what quote, unquote, the Bible clearly says, which is really just a mirage for his, his or her interpretation. But then that just gets mapped over into maga. And when you're taught that to be a good biblical Christian is to vote Republican, which is enforced in the rank and file all the time, to go against Trump is to go against God. Paul the White said that. Paul Paula White, Trump's spiritual advisor, who runs the faith office, like the faith council office, literally said on video, I don't have it in front of me. Maybe, maybe I can grab it, you know, later on that to go against Trump is to go against God.
- [51:18]
A
Oh, yeah. I was told when I said I was not going to vote for Trump that I was, quote, thwarting the will of God.
- [51:28]
C
It's, it's. That's how. I'm not saying you have to understand it or believe it, but there is a logic to it. There is a way to see the world where, oh, yeah, Kristi Noem says this. I believe it. I don't care what the video shows. There is A world where that makes sense to people and it stems from their church upbringing in a lot of ways.
- [51:47]
A
Well, because you're also, you're, it's ingrained in you to not think critically. You are taught that your own thoughts are evil and sinful and you can't trust your own instincts. And so you're kind of spoon fed what to believe and told that that's okay. And you're okay with thinking that way because everyone around you is also thinking that way. So you, you're, you're, you have constant confirmation bias and an echo chamber and it can be really hard to break out of. And I'm not saying that as an excuse.
- [52:19]
C
Right.
- [52:20]
A
Because.
- [52:21]
C
Right.
- [52:21]
A
Anyone could Google it at any point and learn other things, but it can be hard to break out of. And you and I know that because we broke out of it and it was not easy to break out of.
- [52:32]
C
That's right. I found the clip briefly. It's very short. Hopefully this audio plays. Let's see. Tell me if you can hear this, April.
- [52:41]
E
I can.
- [52:41]
C
To say no to President Trump would.
- [52:44]
A
Be saying no to God.
- [52:46]
C
And I won't do that.
- [52:47]
E
We are in a spiritual war right now.
- [52:49]
A
Let every demon demonic network.
- [52:52]
C
So, you know, it goes on and on. But yeah, I mean, she really said that. I mean, how much clearer can it get, right? This is how they see it.
- [52:59]
A
So I will say do. We've got a video from Tim Walls. We're going to show where he basically just says, you're not welcome here. We probably, I don't know for time. Someone said there's a, there is a press conference or press briefing happening at 1 today with Caroline Levitt and J. Vance speaking. I don't know if that's worth tuning into.
- [53:19]
C
I'll try and find it. Oh my gosh.
- [53:21]
A
Just in case it happens, though. And I want to point out too, this, a lot of these states that have all these ICE agents, they do not want ICE there. You heard the mayor, he doesn't want ICE there. Tim Walls has said we do not want ICE there. And I, I do believe he said that he, if ICE does not leave, that he's threatening that he has put the Minnesota National Guard on standby to assist with getting ICE out.
- [53:47]
C
Great. I don't know how the legality of this, look, we're not experts in law or how this works, but if there's a way to use the National Guard and the state to get ICE out, I hope every single state does that. Like today. I hope every single state pulls up their National Guard to drive ICE out of their communities because as we can see, they are not making anything or anyone safer at all. They are endangering citizens. They are going after immigrants, by the way, after. I'm not sure if you know this April, and I actually have a friend of mine who was on the ground in Minneapolis gave me his video. So I saw this firsthand. Right after that shooting, ICE went to an elementary school looking for students. Yes, I have a two minute long video of him in front of the school with ICE agents saying get the f back. Okay, that happened right after that shooting. They went to a school and they've.
- [54:41]
A
Also been going into churches that are supposed to be sanctuaries.
- [54:46]
C
Totally.
- [54:49]
B
Hey everyone, Melinda Hale here, executive Director of the New Evangelicals. Thanks for listening to our podcast. I just wanted to take a minute to personally invite you to be a part of our community. At tne, we're creating space for people of faith who care about justice, compassion and and living out the teachings of Jesus in real, tangible ways. As a nonprofit organization, not only do we offer thought provoking podcasts, but on our new app and online platform, TNE Connect, we offer free educational resources, additional content and a space to connect with like minded people for meaningful conversations and encouragement. So if what we're doing has been helpful to you, if you've learned something, felt seen or been challenged to grow, head over to TheNew Evangelicals.com to to join TNE Connect or make a donation. Your support means the world to us. Thanks for being a part of the movement.
- [55:35]
E
My name is Jazza, I'm from Waco, Texas and I've been a listener of the TNE podcast for about a year now and have really appreciated the nuanced breakdown of current events, theology and politics that Tim and the TNE team provides. I am a donor and supporter of tne not only because I hope to see Yalls work expanded and the information further shared, but also because I am a listener who is probably like many of the listeners, a person who has oftentimes become disillusioned by the Christian Church in America and evangelicalism. And I have found a lot of encouragement and empathy from the work that TNA does and I'm excited to be able to continue supporting.
- [56:29]
C
All right, Stephen Miller, when was this said? April, I believe.
- [56:32]
A
This is from October. This is from a few months back.
- [56:35]
C
Okay, this is him in his own.
- [56:37]
F
Words, but we need to reassure A couple points to all ICE officers. You have federal immunity in the conduct of your duties and anybody who lays a hand on you, or tries to stop you or tries to obstruct you is committing a felony. You have immunity to perform your duties. And no one, no city official, no state official, no illegal alien, no leftist agitator or domestic insurrectionist can prevent you from fulfilling your legal obligations and duties. And the Department of Justice has made clear that if officials cross that line into obstruction, into criminal conspiracy against the United States or against, against ICE officers, then they will face justice.
- [57:22]
C
Like as is par for the course for this man. He sounds like he belongs in 1930s Germany.
- [57:28]
A
No, he is, he is a terrible person.
- [57:31]
C
I'm not sure how else to say.
- [57:32]
A
It, and I don't say that lightly. Like, he is awful.
- [57:36]
C
We've covered his.
- [57:37]
A
He gave permission for ICE agents to basically kill people.
- [57:40]
C
Yeah, right. Whatever you do, we're going to defend you. That, that is not, it's not anything good. It's authoritarianism. It's tyranny. I mean, how, how else can we describe it? How else can we describe it? You have a government federal agent saying, hey, if you're an ICE agent, do whatever the heck you want because we got your back. And as we're seeing, that is true because an ICE agent just murdered someone in cold blood with three different camera angles. And this regime is telling us that what you see is not the truth.
- [58:11]
A
Yeah, it's unreal. I will say not everybody is drinking the right wing propaganda. We have a video of Geraldo Rivera.
- [58:18]
C
We do.
- [58:18]
A
Fox News.
- [58:20]
C
We do.
- [58:21]
A
Actually saying some truth on that channel.
- [58:23]
C
Who would have thought? I mean, here we go. Let's see, let's see what he has to say here.
- [58:27]
A
Or not. Fox News on News Nation.
- [58:29]
G
Sorry, I, I, I, I have to stress that emotionally, I, that might have been me, that, that woman there, I could, that's how, how moved I am and how angry I am. But why? By what I'm seeing, I'm seeing what. Governor Waltz, for all his problems, was absolutely right yesterday when he said bringing these ICE agents into this Minneapolis community was going to cause trouble, was going to cause violence, maybe deadly violence. He said it was predictable and avoidable. And yet it happened anyway. It happened almost as if they were following the script of how to screw things up and make things worse when you're supposed to be, you know, in pursuit of some national goal. The ridding the country of undocumented immigrants. How does shooting a woman behind an SUV, the wheel of an SUV, a white woman, a 37 year old white woman. I mean, how in the hell does that further our national goal? It just Seems. I mean, blood in the snow is the way I think about this forever. That woman's death was absolutely unnecessary. It was absolutely avoidable. It was the most unprofessional thing I've watched. That's why. That's why people are worried about.
- [59:55]
D
I.
- [59:56]
G
That's one of the reasons people don't trust ice. They've taken their training, you know, from several months down to weeks. They're often people who've been let go from other law enforcement jobs. They're not well regarded, I have to say this, by other cops. They wear masks.
- [60:18]
C
Yeah. No, he's right here, the whole clip. He's right. 100% right. 100%. Yeah. And you're right, they do wear masks. Like coward. Like cowards.
- [60:27]
A
They are cowards. They are cowards. They have to know deep down you're wrong. They're wrong.
- [60:32]
C
Yeah.
- [60:32]
A
Because why else would you cover your face?
- [60:34]
C
Right.
- [60:34]
A
I want you to terrorize people with your full chest.
- [60:37]
C
Right.
- [60:37]
A
Let us know who you are. Cowards. So obviously, one thing that we talk about on the show a lot is Christian nationalism as we come from that world.
- [60:50]
C
No way. Would you write a book on this? Did you write a book on this?
- [60:53]
A
You know what? You know what, Timothy? I did right here. It's called Star Spangled Jesus Leaving Christian Nationalism and Finding a True Faith. It's my own story about leaving this world, which I think is one reason why I get so angry too, with Christian nationalism. It's almost like anger at my former self as well, that I didn't wake up sooner because I just. I know. I just know how their mind works.
- [61:19]
C
Right.
- [61:19]
A
And it's infuriating.
- [61:22]
C
Do you find yourself looking back at how you grew up and saying to yourself, I can see what I thought and how I thought, but I don't know how I found it so compelling. That's where I am in this. Like, I can see my former self. I can see what I believed and how I believed it, but I don't know why I found it so believable.
- [61:43]
A
Indoctrination, I guess.
- [61:45]
C
Yeah.
- [61:46]
A
Indoctrination is a hell of a drug. Especially it's something you're raised in, from a child or your whole family also believes that.
- [61:54]
C
Yeah.
- [61:55]
A
You don't have a reason not to believe it until you come in contact with something that directly goes against what you've been taught. Which is why they freaking demonize empathy.
- [62:05]
C
Yeah.
- [62:06]
A
Because they teach you to go against your own, like, natural feelings and instincts. Because those natural instincts oftentimes send alarm bells in Your brain that what you're being taught from a pulpit is wrong. Yep, that's why they demonize that. And speaking of demonizing empathy, we've got a tweet from Ali Beth Stuckey, who wrote a book called Toxic Empathy, where she literally demonizes empathy, but she won't condemn ice. So this is what she says. This is what she posted yesterday after the shooting. I will pray for the woman's friends and family. I will pray for fair, impartial justice. I will not demonize ice, condemn tough immigration policy, blame Trump, insist riots are the voice of the unheard, or justify chaos waged in the name of social justice. I lived through 2020. The answer is no. Oh, Allie, I'm so sorry that while you were at brunch scrolling your phone, you had to be accosted by black squares on Instagram. What a terrible thing that she had to live through when she lived through 2020. Let me tell you something. Can I just, like, I just gotta vent for a second, please.
- [63:18]
C
The floor is yours.
- [63:19]
A
I also lived through 2020. I spent almost every night of the summer of 2020 going to black Lives Matter protests in my small town in Tennessee. We were protesting a Confederate statue to get it moved to a museum. We were 100% peaceful. We prayed on the top of the hour, kneeled in silence in honor of George Floyd's murder. And do you know what happened? The local paper and elected officials started writing about us, that we were out of town terrorists, that we were there to sow violence, that we were going to kill your children. I was there with my 60 year old mother. My sign said Black Lives Matter to Jesus. We sang worship songs and we prayed for racial equality in this. In this world, in our country. And do you know who actually was violent? The conservative Christians that showed up and followed some of us home, that they came over and tried to antagonize us and tried to incite violence. There was a pastor that showed up and preached a sermon to us that the color of sin is black. While black people stood among our crowd. There were people that shouted n words at us. And do you know what I learned that summer? I thought I was going to protest to move a Confederate statute to stand for racial equality. And what I witnessed was racism pointed at me, pointed at the people beside me. I was already moving that way. But my eyes were opened at the blatant racism that comes from white Christians in this country. And so Ali Beth Stuckey can miss me when she sat from the comforter her own home, saying she lived through 2020, she has never lived through any oppression. And in her entire life. And I am sick of people talking about Christian persecution towards white people when the persecution has always been towards black and brown people in this country. Sorry, I was.
- [65:12]
C
No, let it go. You're 100% on the money. That's my story. It's your story. And once you're out, like you said, it's so aggravating to watch people like Ali Stuckey say things that are so blatantly ignorant. To be clear, just to back up what you said with data, there have been studies done on the Black Lives matter protest. Over 93% of all the protests were found to be peaceful. And the majority of the violence was either sparked by the police or by right wing agitators. But Ali doesn't want data to get in the way of a good narrative that upholds white supremacy. Now, of course, she'll never say that she's upholding white supremacy, but it just so happens that all of her views tend to coalesce and tend to back up a nation that is predominantly white and on the side of what white supremacists want. You know, I mean, it's unbelievable.
- [66:10]
A
It sounds to me like Ali Beth Stuckey. And I tried commenting this on her page, but her comments are limited. But it sounds like she has toxic empathy towards ice.
- [66:18]
C
Yeah, it does.
- [66:20]
A
Literally, an ICE agent just murdered a woman. She's like, I won't demonize ice, though, but I will demonize empathy.
- [66:27]
C
So I debated Ali Stuckey on a Jubilee video back in the day, AKA last year. She was the main person in one of those surrounded videos. And, you know, one of her points, which I couldn't get up for, they. Yeah, it just didn't work out, was that, you know, empathy can be toxic. And for her, it's always tied to, like, three things. Abortion, immigration, transgender people. And it is really wild to watch how she weaponizes that while simping for a regime, having empathy for a regime that is killing people. Killing people. It's. It's fascinating to see her go all the way off on Lake and Riley. Now, this was a woman who was killed by an undocumented immigrant. It was a horrible thing. It was a terrible thing. Ali blew that up as justification to demonize all immigrants and to justify these kinds of actions. But when an ICE agent kills a woman at point blank range, her reaction is, she will not demonize ice. She will not condemn the policy. So, see this, and this is the, this is the really important key that I need people to Understand, it's not about all lives matter, like some, like some chanted back in the day.
- [67:39]
A
It's.
- [67:39]
C
It's about our lives matter. Our tribes lives matter. The lives that we want to care about matter. The immigrant's life doesn't matter. Renee's life doesn't matter. It doesn't matter to them. All the children born into systemic poverty, their lives don't matter. Of course we'll fight for them to be born, but once they are, it's all hands off. Right. It's a selective application of a quote unquote pro life ethic that just so happens to reinforce right wing authoritarian policies that also are backed by white supremacist ideology.
- [68:21]
A
Yep. I.
- [68:24]
C
So it's like I said, she can miss me.
- [68:27]
A
It is absolutely infuriating the way that they. They major in the minors so much. Like the way they focus on things that really just don't matter. Like the fact that trans people exist is not Christian persecution.
- [68:40]
C
Not.
- [68:40]
A
But they make it out to be like they're dying. No, because a trans person walked into, I don't know, a school. Like, look at, like, that Oklahoma girl who got an F on her paper because her paper was terrible and deserved enough and she claimed Christian persecution. It is, like, so maddening.
- [69:01]
C
Oh, it's. In my opinion, Ali Stuckey is one of the most dangerous. One of. Matt Walsh is another one. But Ali Stuckey, if you ever see her talk, first off, she comes across like a typical mom just from, you know, suburbia America, just trying to love her family. And she says things in the sweetest way that are the most venomous. Like her. She espouses the sweetest poison that convinces millions of mostly white women to vote for things that go against their own interests and the interests of their neighbor and even children. Right. I mean, Ali Stuckey's policies does not make America safer. It's not. She's not trying to reduce mass shootings by looking at actual gun safety legislation. It's not. She's not saving anyone. And it's really, you know, difficult and infuriating to watch, frankly.
- [69:47]
A
No, you cannot be pro life and pro ICE at this point.
- [69:52]
C
Well said. I'm with you.
- [69:54]
A
Okay. Do we want to show a few other infuriating tweets how angry we can get today?
- [70:01]
C
Matt Walsh, the truth teller, you know that he is always telling the truth. Quote, she was trying to stage an illegal blockade of the road to interfere with ICE agents and then rammed her car into one of them when they attempted to apprehend her. This isn't even a close call and entirely justified. She is 100% to blame for her own death. The victims are the ICE agents who are continually harassed and assaulted while trying to do their job and uphold the laws of the United States.
- [70:31]
A
They just live in a reality that doesn't exist. Like, that's just. We showed you the video up front. She did not ram her car into one of them. That is a lie.
- [70:42]
C
Nothing new from this crowd. Nothing new. We have. Oh, this is a good one. So for those of you who don't know, Sean Foyt is a worship leader. He's tied to the new Apostolic reformation, so check out our videos on that via podcast or YouTube, including the January 6 episode we did, if you want the deep dive on that. But Sean Foyt is someone who goes around the country singing worship songs as an act of spiritual warfare to break demonic strongholds essentially in his. In his mind, and to restore, you know, American greatness in the name of God. Here's what he said when this went down. We cannot repeat the same mistakes of 2020. Disorder, chaos, and mayhem like this should not be tolerated on the streets of America. I've witnessed firsthand attacks in many of these cities. These people are violent and hate America. Order must be restored. Pray for peace. Can I just say that the only people causing disorder, chaos and mayhem are the ICE agents infiltrating states and cities where they're not welcomed and intentionally causing disorder, chaos and mayhem. It's them. They are the agents of chaos that Sean is so concerned about.
- [71:55]
A
And I don't want to rewrite what happened in 2020, but the protest that took started happening worldwide was. Were because. Because the police murdered George Floyd. That was on video.
- [72:08]
C
Right.
- [72:09]
A
And then they murdered Breonna Taylor in.
- [72:11]
C
Her bed and in Mount Arbery. Well, that wasn't the police, but it was wannabe vigilantes.
- [72:15]
A
Yeah, but like, there was. And those are by no means the only black people that have been murdered by police. We have a long history, like systemic racism. If you are a white person that just needs like some Basic Systemic Racism 101 History Watch 13th on Netflix that talks about basically how the mass incarceration of black people is basically slavery 2.0. Yep. It will infuriate you, but this is the time to be awake. Like, they have demonized the word woke, but the. The term woke was initially used by black people to be aware of these exact injustices that are happening from our government. Like we are now. We are now feeling it as white people. But this is nothing New for black and brown people that have always lived in this country.
- [73:05]
C
If I can just co sign that two books that could be good to read as well. The Color of Compromise by Jamar Tisby is a great introduction to this and the New Jim Crow is an amazing book. I don't have her name off top of my head. I read a long time ago. I'll find it real quick. I'm sure someone's gonna put it in the chat.
- [73:23]
A
I had the audiobook players in my.
- [73:24]
C
Library here by Michelle Alexander. That is another eye opening book that will again just change the way you understand our prison system, the foundation of America, et cetera. And look, it's not comfortable. It wasn't comfortable for me to read a telling of my own faith, traditions, history from the other side, but it was sobering. It was really sobering to have the curtain pulled back and to realize that unfortunately, unfortunately white evangelicalism usually was on the wrong side of so many issues from slavery to segregation to queer inclusion to feminism. I mean it just all kinds of stuff and it's not fun to realize that. But it is needed. It's needed.
- [74:11]
A
Yeah. Yeah. 100 happy deconstruction.
- [74:14]
C
Yeah, happy deconstruction. I promise. It's worth it though. Maybe we can do one more. I thought this was interesting or not. Just another Again we're trying to demonstrate here how the right wing Christian complex and its leaders are framing this right away. Right. Ali Suckies is a huge name. Matt Walsh is a big name. Samuel say for some people might not be as well known but he's a major piece of this puzzle. Has a really well known blog and what he says in the wake of again all the footage that we shared at the beginning of this episode. Let's be honest, many leftists are happy that the woman who tried to run the ICE agent is dead so they can use her death to fight law enforcement and border control. They wanted another George Floyd and they've got their wish. It's insane that it happened in Minnesota. Again I I there it's the upside down. It is the upside down that these people live in who and Minnesota has.
- [75:09]
A
Gone through a lot of of awful things like the murder of Melissa Hortman. Yes, that was a political assassination by a Christian nationalist.
- [75:19]
C
We covered that as well. He went to Christ of the Nations Institute where they have on the wall by its founder. My goal is to prayer is to pray. One violent prayer every day that's on like the administration's wall a quote by their founder, that guy who killed Melissa Hortman went to that institution. Yeah, but Trump couldn't even call Governor Walsh when that happened. Remember? He wouldn't even call him. He wouldn't even call him. And somehow, somehow the left, whoever the left is, by the way, I'm not sure who the left is in their minds. The left is the one stirring the pot. The left is the one who won't play fair. The left is the one who's, who's agitating things.
- [75:57]
A
You gotta remember, the left is anyone who is not just eaten everything Trump puts throws out because they. Ted Cruz recently called Marjorie Taylor Greene a liberal. Like they now consider her on the left.
- [76:12]
C
I forgot. I forgot.
- [76:15]
A
So like the left means nothing if everybody's the left, then nobody's the left.
- [76:20]
C
You know, Isn't it funny hearing the facts, don't care about your feelings crowd. Like be the, Be the feelings crowd.
- [76:26]
A
Like they are always the feelings crowd. All they do is project.
- [76:30]
C
That's all they do. They just redefine words.
- [76:32]
A
They call us snowflakes and then they cry if a gay character is in a Disney movie and they.
- [76:38]
C
And they get people to boycott it. Dylan Mulvaney did one Bud Light ad one. And they lost their ever loving mind because Dylan Mulvaney did one Bud Light ad that no one was forced to watch.
- [76:52]
A
There was a pastor that went from a pulpit. He cursed the Barbie movie.
- [76:58]
C
I remember that. Hey, didn't he. Greg Lock smashed a Barbie house on stage with a baseball bat.
- [77:05]
A
People, every accusation is a confession.
- [77:09]
C
Every single one. Yeah, it's wild. So. Oh, anyway. Yeah, well, friends, I mean, I don't know. Thanks for watching this stream so far. It means a lot.
- [77:18]
A
Yeah. There are some that have been breaking out in Minnesota and across the country. I think if you can attend, great. Be peaceful, be careful. But yeah, this is, this is the time to not be silent.
- [77:32]
C
Oh, a hundred percent. This is the. Yeah. Especially for white folks. Like, I really can't emphasize this enough as white people, especially if you grew up conservative Christian and you're not anymore. Like if you haven't yet. Like, you need to get loud. Get loud on your social media, petition your representatives, protest in the streets, do whatever you can. Raise, raise rebellious, empathetic, queer, inclusive, justice oriented children. Like, do whatever you got to do.
- [78:00]
A
And please do stay peaceful.
- [78:02]
C
Also, of course, please stay peaceful because.
- [78:05]
A
They want, they are wanting people to be violent. They want that to happen. So be peaceful. I will say one. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you. I don't know what else you're going.
- [78:13]
C
To Say, no, you're good, go ahead.
- [78:14]
A
My bad, my bad. I just realized I just cut you.
- [78:17]
C
Mark that one another time. Time off the list. No, you're good, go ahead.
- [78:23]
A
I would also say too record film. Have your. Like that. That is like, sometimes your only defense. Like, imagine what would happen if. What if Renee's murder was not on video. I mean, they're already lying about it, even with the clear video footage, but at least we have that 100%.
- [78:42]
C
D. Don't let this discourage you. Let it radicalize you. That's what I tell people. Let this radicalize you. To be someone who is so devoted to love and justice and inclusion, like the new evangelicals always says as an organization to. To be. To be willing to be uncomfortable for the sake of your neighbor. And look for some people that might be just saying something on social media where, you know, your mom's going to see it and you might get a phone call, but you're going to say it anyway. It could be a little baby step just by saying something publicly. And from there, you can move down the list, you know, join protests, get involved in local communities, run for school board, like, do whatever you gotta do. This happens on the micro level as well. Right. It's not just about federal, although that's very important. We need small communities that are working together to think about what happens when ICE comes to our school. I actually emailed my principal, my son's principal, a couple months ago, and I wasn't thrilled with his response. So I'm gonna follow up with him and talk to them like, hey, like, what are we going to do when ICE illegally comes to the school? I don't care what Trump says the law is or isn't. That's ridiculous. I don't want ice in my child's school.
- [79:48]
A
Direction was peaceful and that 2020 was a fraudulent election, 100%, despite all the contrary evidence.
- [79:54]
C
Yeah, exactly. Okay, what do you want to do?
- [79:57]
A
Well, we do have got a weird Christian segment.
- [80:00]
C
Cool. Shall we have some super chats too? That came in briefly.
- [80:03]
A
Oh, yeah, let's finish. Yeah, let's read the rest of those.
- [80:06]
C
I think we have like three more that came in. Here is one you want.
- [80:10]
A
Can you read that?
- [80:11]
C
Yeah. From sentient soy. Us on the left need to be sure to hold the Democrats to this moment. Abolishing ICE needs to be the bare minimum at this point, as far as I'm concerned. Thank you, Tim and April, for what you're doing. I honestly call me a radical. I cosign this like, I Am. I am not happy with the Democratic apparatus as a whole for many reasons. I don't need another statement from Chuck Schumer. I need some freaking action.
- [80:35]
A
Yeah.
- [80:36]
C
Joseph Compton. I agree with Tim. There must be punishment for anyone associated with this regime. Presidential pardons should be indefinitely suspended until all are brought to justice. Frankly, I'm not a fan of presidential pardons, period. For anyone just going to put that out loud or say that part out loud. That's my personal view. Shane Ashton. I was that kid they hated in their churches because my mom never married my dad and had me as a teen. And empathy has never been a sin. Thank you so much, Shane. And then we have one more here. I actually started reading and listening to How Fascism Works by Jason Stanley the morning before this happened. Co sign that book. How Fascism Works by Jason Stanley is a great and important read for this moment. When you read it, you'll be like, oh, my gosh, it's the connection. It's undeniable. That's why I say often that we are living under a Christian fascist regime. We absolutely are. Okay, I am keeping track of the White House press briefing. As of right now, no one's arrived. So we'll just kind of move on and go from there. So shall we get to our arguably favorite segment of the week?
- [81:39]
D
Please.
- [81:40]
C
Okay, here we go.
- [81:42]
A
Weird Christian.
- [81:47]
C
All right, April, what do we got today?
- [81:50]
A
Pulling up here today, we have. I don't actually know who this person is. What's her name?
- [81:58]
C
Her name is a pretty small following, but she has like 300 followers.
- [82:01]
A
Yeah, she went viral with this video.
- [82:05]
C
Here we go.
- [82:07]
A
She posted this on her own account. So someone that was with her filmed this.
- [82:12]
C
Yeah. And she's.
- [82:15]
A
Yeah. For those listening on podcast, she is standing on one of the benches of the tables, it looks like in Costco.
- [82:22]
C
I mean, I would recognize that. That 100% all beef hot dog umbrella anywhere. April. Definitely Costco. All right, here we go, everyone.
- [82:31]
A
I just have a quick announcement for you, very quick and very short, and it's very important. I noticed everyone's in the hustle and bustle. There's lines all around. And one thing I wanted to ask you is Jesus Christ promises, is that at the end, when he comes in return, that there will be. Okay, Jesus loves you and I just ask you to get your life right.
- [82:57]
B
No problem.
- [83:00]
C
Someone came over to her and is talking to her now to get her down off the bench. I think it's a Costco employer. Maybe it's security. And that's the end of the video. Painful.
- [83:09]
A
Yeah, painful. This is what she said in her caption. I have always loved one on one evangelism, and I will never stop doing it. Recently I have found such a joy and a freedom from shouting his name from the rooftops. This time I didn't make it very far. Ha ha. She said, haha. As soon as I said the name Jesus Christ, I immediately saw three employees running towards me sternly telling me to get down and stop. My gut instinct just decided to get one last yell out to quote, please get your life right with Jesus. I won't stop preaching. And you shouldn't either. As Christians, we are called to herald the truth, whether it is welcome or unwelcome. It's much more, that's key. They don't care if you don't want them to talk to you. It's much more important. People hear the truth on this side of eternity rather than before it's too late. And then she has a Bible verse also. The way, the way that they. She says here, as soon as I said the name Jesus Christ, I immediately saw three employees running towards me like, bs, bs. It was not because you said Jesus Christ. It was because you were being disorderly and disrupting people. They would have done that no matter who. If, if someone. Yeah. If someone said, I would like to tell you about Pokemon today, they would have also stalked you.
- [84:34]
C
Oh, 100%. If you.
- [84:37]
D
Yeah.
- [84:37]
C
If you tried to teach people a better recipe for hot dogs, they'd still take you down. You know, like I'm just saying. Well, also, you notice how she says, how she says the truth. And this is really key for people to recognize for this world. And this. I saw her other video. She's. She's in more of the charismatic world. What she's saying in her mind is as objectively true as the earth is round and the sky is blue. Like, there's no, there's no separation for her between the truth of what she thinks she's saying and a scientist saying, yes, the earth is round. Like, they are the same thing. And so when you have that, when you have that kind of, you know, merging of like scientific data and empirical evidence with theology which is not that you get a really, like, you get this. You get people who are so convinced that they'll stand up on a Costco bench and then they'll try and act like somehow they're the martyr here. Right. And I think also what's interesting is how, how self contradictory this idea is. And I had this thought even when I was A conservative Christian. I was like, wait a second. If you get up on a Costco bench and you turn people off to the truth of the gospel and they don't get quote unquote, saved, that means that they're going to burn in hell forever. So what's the point, right? If the whole point is trying to save souls and you're turning people off by doing this, is it really about saving souls or is it about your own piety?
- [86:02]
A
I mean, the fact that she filmed herself doing this, isn't there a verse about whatever, like, what do you do do in secret?
- [86:09]
C
Yeah, don't be like the hypocrites who pray out loud. Essentially, Jesus says, pray in your own prayer closet and don't let your right hand know what it's doing. Don't let your right hand know what your left hand is doing kind of vibe. Right. But no, not for her. You know, just, hey, on the Internet.
- [86:23]
A
So performative and cringe, and I probably would have done it at some point in my life. There was a comment that I thought was funny on the video. It says, I'll take two hot dogs, a 700 calorie chocolate chip cookie, and burning in hell for eternity.
- [86:36]
B
Thanks.
- [86:38]
C
Amen. Amen. All right, friends. Well, I don't know. Pretty packed show today. Thanks so much for hanging in with us. If you're watching on YouTube, please make sure to subscribe to the channel and like this video. Video to all of our Subsack viewers. Thank you so much for tuning in. Every week with April and I. We go live with Lincoln Square Media on substack Thursdays at 12, but we have a podcast and a YouTube channel with. With more content, so make sure to. To subscribe over there. Anything else I'm missing, April?
- [87:04]
A
No, I don't think so.
- [87:05]
C
Okay.
- [87:06]
A
I mean, there's a million things happening in the world that are terrible, but, yeah, I don't have time to go through them all.
- [87:11]
C
Yeah, I'm with you on that, so. All right, friends. Well, thanks so much for being here. I'm Tim Whitaker.
- [87:16]
A
And I'm April Ajoy.
- [87:17]
C
We'll see you next week.
- [87:19]
A
Bye.