← The Tim & April Show
The Tim & April Show
92. Why Some Christians are excited about the war in Iran and hope for the End Times
01:23:53
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- [00:00]
A
You're listening to a new evangelicals production, The Tim and April show, where we unravel faith, politics, and culture.
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B
Hello, everyone. Welcome in to the Tim and April Show. I am Tim Whitaker. You are Muted, and I'm April.
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A
A joy.
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B
We're off to a great start.
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A
I know. I was gonna say I finally feel human again after this stupid flu knocked me out for a while.
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B
It's a miracle.
- [00:47]
A
And then my. I muted my mic, so that's just great.
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B
You know, usually we don't start off with the super chat, but I think we have to start the show off on a positive note. Tandyman, thanks for the super chat. Says I pledge $1 per minute up to $50 until Tim mentions.
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A
Don't say it.
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B
I'm not someone's name. Starting now. Let the timer roll, my friend. We are at three whole minutes so far, so that's $3 and counting.
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A
He who shall not be named.
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B
I love it. I love it. Friends, welcome into the show. April and I are former Christian nationalists and now we are exposing Christian nationalism, helping people find a better path forward in faith. So if you're new to the show, welcome in. If you're watching on substack, hello. If you're watching on YouTube, please make sure to give this video a like and subscribe to the channel. It helps get it into the YouTube algorithm. And I think on substack, the heart button is how you show the algorithm of substack that you're enjoying this show. So you can smash it over there as well.
- [01:47]
A
Yeah, I love how you always say smash it. I don't know such an aggressive verb.
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B
It's a YouTube thing, man. Like, all these YouTube live streamers are like, smash the like button. You know, smash it. So I just picked up that term. How about gently touch the like button?
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A
Give it a love pat.
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B
Yes. Yes. Yeah, yeah. I have a story I want to share on the air because I need somewhere to process my trauma, so. Yeah, yeah, I know. Yesterday. Yeah, yesterday. Look, I am known to procrastinate. Anyone who knows me knows that I can be a little bit of a procrastinator. I do have adhd and it's been a lot better on medication. I know, it's a shocker. It's. I bet no one who. Who listens to this show ever thought that I'm coming. How else do you think I can control two different chats, three screens, pulling up content, and talking to you?
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C
April.
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A
No, I know in many ways it's your superpower.
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B
In many ways. So. So Anyway, so yesterday I am working. I decided to drive to Starbucks in my beater car. Everyone has one of those cars, you know, it's just the, the family. Like, it's my little beater. It's old, it's dirty, it gets me around town. It's great. And I've had this issue with it for a long time where I will try to turn the car on and it won't turn over at all. Like, it's almost like there's some kind of like fail safe or like some kind of like deadman switch that's activated. And I have to move the steering wheel around to kind of get it, to get it to turn over. And I just kind of made that. I knew that that meant something was wrong. I knew that meant I had to get it looked at. But I've always been able to kind of finagle it whenever that, that does happen. Until yesterday when I'm leaving Starbucks after I'm getting some work done and the car will not turn over. I cannot get it. I'm there for 10 minutes moving the steering wheel all over the place, trying to get this thing to turn over. I eventually call Sarah and I'm like, hey, I need you to come pick me up with the kids. So she does. And then I think to myself, I have to get this thing towed at some point. But, but also Sarah had, was. Sarah was getting a really bad migraine. So we have two kids with us. I. We're doing these back and forth trips to Starbucks. I'm trying to get, get. I'm trying to get the car to turn over one more time just so I can drive it to the mechanic because I don't want to get it towed. Long story short, by the time 4:00 clock rolls around, we are kind of at our wit's end. I and I think to myself, okay, how hard can it be to call a tow truck? You just call you Google tow truck and call. It was such a pain in the butt. I called so many places and was told, no, we don't tow cars. We only do commercial vehicles. No, we're out of service. No, we're closed right now. I mean, it was such a pain. So then it dawns on me that I have. My old neighbor is like a mechanic, a guru, okay? So I'm like, you know, I'm gonna text this guy cause he moved a few minutes down the road from me and I'm gonna see if he happens to be around to take a look at the car to see if maybe he can get it working just so I can drive it to Pep Boys. So now I am back at Starbucks. Sarah drives me back again. I'm waiting for him to show up. He shows up and he tries to jump in. I'm like, dude, I don't think it's a battery issue. And he's like, yep, I can smell like, I can smell something burning inside of like the. I think where the starter is. I think your starter is shot. You have to get it towed. Now think about this. Sarah's migraine is to the point where she's debilitated. So I have the two kids that we're trying to manage and I have to, I have to do a T and E Connect hosting thing last night because we had a scholar do a class and I had to fill in for the. For the usual host. So that's happening at 7:30. I call a tow truck driver finally at 6:00, and he goes, I could be there in an hour at the earliest. And it's 120 bucks. I'm like, I don't care. Done do it. So luckily by the time 7:00 clock rolls around, he says, I'm in traffic. I'm like, dude, I think I cannot be to you any later than this. So I had to leave the car, the keys in the car, leave cash in the glove box. He told the Pep Boys. Then this morning, I drive the Pep Boys tell them what happened and I have to wait a few hours to see what's going to happen. So that was my day yesterday. All while my partner had a debilitating migraine.
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A
This season with young kids is just so busy, like anything goes wrong. Like it's just always harder when. When you throw kids on top of a already difficult situation.
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B
Yes. And thankfully our kids really are great. Like they're at their age now where they can kind of play with themselves. You know, they can watch a TV show and not be bothered. You know, like they're a little more independent than they were even a year ago. But they're still, you know, they still need to be fed and they still need mommy and daddy. And it was just at one point last night. I'm bringing my laptop around the house as the live is happening as I'm hosting, but I'm off camera. So the scholars presenting. Tim cuts himself. I'm putting a bandaid on him. Sarah's trying to go to bed. It was. It was pandemonium.
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A
So anyway, I'm so sorry.
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B
I just needed someone to hear that. I needed someone to hear that story and empathize with me toxically.
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A
Your feelings are valid, Tim.
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B
Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. I need you to give me some of that toxic empathy that we all know is sinful.
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A
I want to. I want to address a couple things in the comments real quick before we move on.
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B
Oh, are we in trouble?
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A
Jared mentioned that the Young Turk Sports featured a clip of us.
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B
Whoa.
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A
This week, which I don't know why I didn't realize they even had a sports channel.
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B
That's crazy.
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A
But that's cool. Look at us.
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B
That's cool. Wow.
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A
And then another thing I want to address is a few people said they saw my interview, and you were on recently, too, with Pat Conkey. Yeah, I think that's how you say his name. He's great, and he is great. But I want to say I saw. I've been. I saw a few comments on the interview I did with him, and I've seen a few over the last couple months in our comments, too, of people who maybe saw my super viral Pam Bondi waitress video and did not know it was me. Like, watch our show. Saw the Pam Bondi video, did not connect that that was me. And then a lot of people apparently only know me from this show and don't even know that I do comedy. So I just feel like I need to let you all know that my main thing is comedy. I make sketches. It's like, it's my thing.
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B
Look, I'll put it this way. Any of the humor on this show is because of what April brings to the table. Okay. If you watch any of my solo content, I am not making jokes. I'm just ranting, and I'm angry. It's April. It was the comedic relief of the show, Friends, because that's her thing.
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A
Yeah. Anyway, I just wanted. I just wanted y' all to know, you know, that I have a whole other life outside of Timothy Chalamet. And if you want to laugh a little bit, I mean, I make serious stuff, too, but I do sketches.
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C
That's my thing.
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A
So go follow me.
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B
You have a website that no one knows about? You know you're a comedian?
- [08:51]
A
Yeah.
- [08:52]
B
Oh, man. All right, well, listen, we have a lot to get into today. Again, Friends, please gently bop the like button on YouTube and gently press the hard button on substack. This show is produced by the New Evangelicals, an organization that I started in 2020, now led by the wonderful Melinda Hale. It's a great place if you're looking to find a better path forward in your faith. There are tons of free resources, tons of amazing things to access, including top tier scholarship. Like last night we had Dr. Angela Parker on teaching us about feminist theology. It was really awesome. So check them out at the New evangelicals or the newevangelicals.com to get more details. April, I'm not sure if you saw the news this week, but we're in a new war. The president of no New wars has launched.
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A
I think it's the third Saturday that I've woken up since Trump's took inauguration a little over a year ago where we bombed another country. Just, I would love to stop waking up on a Saturday to learn about a new war we're in from the president that said no new wars.
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B
I would, I would love nothing more than, than for that to stop happening. But you know, the industrial military complex machine must get fed. So, yeah, friends, we, well, it depends on who you ask. According to some people in the government, we're not in a war, even though we've been told that we are in a war. I guess we could play the first clip. Trump. Look, I don't know where to start with this stuff. By the way, Tandyman, you're at $12 so far is what you're going to owe.
- [10:23]
D
Just.
- [10:24]
B
I'm keeping track of the timer here, so. So Trump did this like really late press conference when they bombed Iran. And I want to highlight something in this picture and we're going to play the clip in a minute. Trump is wearing a USA ball cap as he addresses the American people about the new war he is entering us into. And I can, I always think about how these are the same people who gave President Obama so much crap over wearing a tan suit. This man wears baseball caps. Baseball caps. Oh, my gosh. It just, it aggravates me. I had to highlight that. Sorry. Okay, here's what he said.
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D
The United States military is undertaking a massive and ongoing operation to prevent this very wicked radical dictatorship from threatening America and our core national security interests. The lives of courageous American heroes may be lost and we may have casualties. That often happens in war, but we're doing this not for now. We're doing this for the future. To the members of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard, the armed forces and all of the police, I say tonight that you must lay down your weapons and have complete immunity or in the alternative, face certain death. Finally, to the great proud people of Iran, I say tonight that the hour of your freedom is at hand. Stay sheltered. Don't leave your home. It's very dangerous outside. Bombs will be dropping Everywhere. When we are finished, take over your government, it will be yours to take. This will be probably your only chance. For generations. For many years, you have asked for America's help, but you never got it. No president was willing to do what I am willing to do tonight. Now you have a president who is giving you what you want. So let's see how you respond.
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A
Links in the chat that it's giving Lord Farquaad. And I've seen other people make that connection online, too, but it's so true. That scene where he's like, some of you may die, but it's a sacrifice I am willing to make.
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B
It's, it's, it is. What do you even say to this stuff? I mean, you, you're like, there's. We could spend the whole show just going through what he just said, the nonsense. Now, of course, April, we know that two things can be true at the same time. The Iranian regime that was in charge, or is in charge, was brutal. Right? Was killing its own citizens at, by the level, tens of thousands of people either killed or imprisoned. I'm not aware of anyone who is saying that that regime was doing good work running Iran. But we also know that we've seen this merry go round play out before where we're going to go over there to give them freedom, and we end up destabilizing an entire region and leaving it off, leaving it worse off than it was before. Right?
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A
And oh, gosh, he's like, I did what no other president has done. Like, like George Bush didn't do the exact same thing in Iraq.
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B
Well, right. And also my end. And look, I want to be clear. We are not Afghanistan, we are not foreign policy experts on this show. So I, I'm really just spitballing here, so don't take this part of what I'm going to say as truth, but I'm, I'm, I, I'm under the impression that most presidents knew better than to just start indiscriminately bombing Iran because it would just do so much. It would just escalate things in the entire region, which is what we're seeing now. I mean, bombs are dropping in other countries. Israel and the US Are working together. It's. It's only escalating. And I, I'm not. Have you seen the reason why? I'm not sure why. I had the opportunity to ask an expert last night on the live show. His name is Mr. Global. If we're doing this for oil, and he said, no, there's no reason we need to do this for oil. It's, it's not motivated by oil. So I don't know why we decided now to do this. Do you have any idea? Because I have not a clue.
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A
Well, the word on the street is to get rid of their nuclear capabilities. But I thought we did that a few months ago when we bombed Iran.
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B
Yeah, a couple months ago.
- [14:43]
A
Well, I, Yeah. I mean, what the White House is claiming is that from what, from what I understand it, I saw Marco Rubio saying this, and granted, I don't believe anything these people say, but this is what they're saying, that Israel was planning to attack Iran with or without the United States. And the United States believed that if Israel did that, that Iran would retaliate against the United States. And so the thinking is, well, let's just go ahead and preemptively join Israel and bombing Iran, since they're going to come after us anyway. Yeah, that, that's what I, that's what they're claiming is the thing, but the, the frustrating thing. So, again, we're not experts in geopolitical Middle East.
- [15:38]
B
Right.
- [15:39]
A
Conflict.
- [15:39]
B
Not our lane.
- [15:41]
A
No, not our lane. I will say, though, I, I hope. Big asterisk on whether or not this actually happens. I hope that, that the Iranians that live, that have lived under this really oppressive regiment can find some form of freedom through this, that maybe some good can come out of it.
- [16:00]
B
Yeah.
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A
But if we look historically at all the times the United States has meddled in the Middle east, it's just turned into either an endless war or it's just, you know, destabilized the entire region.
- [16:15]
B
Yeah. You know, I did an episode with Kevin Carnahan when October 7th happened, and he did a kind of a brief deep dive on kind of how a lot of this got to where we are. And it turns out that contrary to what a lot of us were told, that the US has always been the good guys doing the right thing. We've destabilized that region for a long time. You know, we've overthrown governments there. We've had our. We, We. We've installed dictatorships in certain countries in the Middle east for our own gain. Like, we, we are. Our hands are not clean with our meddling in that. In that region, period. On top of. And we'll get into this a little bit later, of course, all of the theological and, like, you know, Christian Zionism that goes behind that, which we're going to dive deep into in a minute, but I'm just not aware of, like, what the real Motive is here. Maybe it's to distract from the Epstein files. We have that going on. There's a lot going on here.
- [17:05]
A
You know, I think that's more likely what's happening. But I do, I do think there's not one messaging because I think they've kind of said, depending on who you ask in the Republican Party, they're really pivoting and kind of giving different explanations because I don't think. I don't think the messaging is clear on why we are doing this. But interestingly, there are quite a few people from in the MAGA world that are pissed.
- [17:37]
B
Yeah.
- [17:38]
A
That Trump did this. And Trump did this overnight. Did not get congressional support, you know, to when he did this. And if you remember. I remember one of the main things that Trump campaigned on, campaigned on was no new wars.
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B
Yes.
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A
He was going to be the peacetime president. He was going to be the president that got us out of foreign wars and to actually be America first.
- [18:07]
B
Yes.
- [18:08]
C
And Charlie, Kurt.
- [18:10]
B
Charlie. There's a clip of Charlie Kirk going around where he's saying regime change in Iran would be a disaster. Like this is. This is his own people saying this stuff. Absolutely right.
- [18:21]
A
So here is Marjorie Taylor Greene. And to be fair, she has already kind of distanced herself from Trump in the last few months. She's not running for reelection. And she went on Megyn Kelly and Megyn Kelly put this little montage together. She's also upset about getting involved with Iran. So this is a clip we want to share.
- [18:42]
B
This is wild. Just buckle up, friends.
- [18:44]
E
It is absolutely America last. It's the same bullshit. We've seen what is happening to the man that I supported, the man that denounced what happened in Iraq.
- [18:55]
D
The war in Iraq is a big fat mistake.
- [18:59]
E
No more regime change. Promise it on the campaign. A un year in and we're in another war and we've got American troops being killed. All I can think about is the military industrial complex. Those guys are lighting up their cigars, drinking their whiskey and patting each other on the back because all they can think about is how much money they're going to make off the American taxpayers making bombs, building new aircraft, building new drones, and building all kinds of military equipment just to kill people all over the world while the American people, all they want is to be able to afford a house, afford health insurance, and be able to maybe, maybe live the dream like the baby boomers did. They literally are trying to start World War iii. It's completely out of control. It will never end.
- [19:45]
F
You know, this idea, you break it, you own it. I don't buy that one bit.
- [19:48]
E
And Lindsey Graham, I saw a video of him this morning that mothership of
- [19:52]
F
terrorism has a hole in it.
- [19:54]
E
He was choking back tears, swallowing back tears because he was saying he was so proud of President Trump. He wasn't choking back tears for the American military members that have been killed and their families who are mourning their deaths right now. That's not maga. That is not Magda. That's not America First. This isn't what we voted for. It's literally Israel first. Israel first. And then where is it going to stop?
- [20:23]
A
It is wild to hear a Republican say the military industrial complex.
- [20:29]
B
April, I feel like every time I rant, I say the same three things. We can't get affordable housing, can't get affordable health care. And here's MTG agreeing with me and with you, with this audience about things that we've been talking about for a long time right now. Of course, this doesn't excuse mtg's incredible transphobia. The. The last bill that she sponsored through Congress. Make no mistake, friends. I'm not saying great, MTG is a fantastic human, but the fact that she's agreeing with us, I mean, thank you. Thank you for having some common sense here because she is right. Because we've been right about this since the beginning, right?
- [21:05]
A
I mean, to her credit, though, she has always been anti war or anti. She's been. She has been America First. Trump did run on that. But it is wild to me. Donald Trump has lied about everything from the beginning. And it's just wild to me that they're just now being like, oh, he lies, he lies. He lies like, yes, where have you been?
- [21:30]
B
It is. I mean, this is a person who was behind Trump's election fraud narrative from the beginning, right? This is a woman who, who spoke at Nick Fuentes, his conference a few years ago while she was still in Congress. I think that one thing I think we should add here is that there is. And this is why I think Candace Owens and Tucker Carlson and maybe even MTG are, are very dangerous because they are going to probably say a lot of things that we would. That. That would. That we would agree with. But their motivation for these things is very different. In particular, Candace Owens and Zach Carlson. I've been watching some clips. I watched the first episode of Candace Owens, Candace Owens big expose.
- [22:09]
A
Dan Erica Kirk, the Bride of Charlie.
- [22:12]
B
It is literally a Trojan H for blatant antisemitism. In her first video, her first piece in the first 15 minutes, she says that modern day psychology was created by Jewish mystics for mind control and that it's satanic. Okay, that's in the first 15 minutes. And there's a lot of those kinds of hints. So I think that while I'm happy to see Tucker and Candace talk about the genocide in Palestine, that's a good thing. Their motivation is insanely different. And whenever I hear MTG say Israel first, that to me is a dog whistle. Like that, that, that, that Nick Fuentes, you know, the Jews are controlling everything kind of mantra. Even though I do think that in this case she is right about that particular statement in this context.
- [22:59]
A
Yeah, yeah. Yes. It is important to keep in mind that these people still voted for Donald Trump when we already knew a lot of terrible things about him.
- [23:07]
B
Yes. One other person that. I mean, this one broke my brain when I saw this person also come out against what's going on. Brace yourself, friends. Matt Walsh. Matt Walsh also agrees with a terrible person. Oh, I arguably maybe like, top three worst, in my opinion. April, do you want to read this one? Because you have such a great reading voice, I think that. That this whole tweet from Matt is just worth the audience hearing.
- [23:39]
A
Okay, Matt Walsh tweets. So far we've heard that although we killed the whole Iranian regime, this was not a regime change war. And although we obliterated their nuclear program, we had to do this because of their nuclear program. And although Iran was not planning any attacks on the US they also might have been, depending on who you ask. And although we are not fighting this war to free the Iranian people, they are now free or might be, depending on who sees his power. And we have no idea who that will be. The messaging on this thing is, to put it mildly, confused. And I concur. And I hate that I am agreeing with Matt Walsh.
- [24:17]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or that Matt's agreeing with us. Right. I mean, it's. It's. Again, it changes nothing about who he is, about the lies that he espouses daily, which also this is even in my opinion, these kinds of comments from MTG and Matt Walsh are more damning because they can tell the truth. They can use their rational faculties. Right. They can put two and two together. They can see the obvious about this regime when they want to. When they want to see through the lies, they can turn it on. But when they don't want to because it benefits them, suddenly Trump is great. Maga, yada, yada, yada. That's what's so frustrating about these kinds of people, is that they. They could tell the truth. They just choose not to.
- [25:00]
C
Right?
- [25:01]
A
And Lindsey Graham, you know, she, Marjorie Taylor Greene brought him up earlier. We know for a fact that he knows the difference between right and wrong because of the, the few moments in the last few years that he's actually come out and condemned Donald Trump. And after the insurrection was one of those times. And he always just walks everything back.
- [25:22]
B
This is what I would say. It's all about power and control, right? Like the main ethic here is not integrity, it's not truth. It is power and control over and over and over again. And that's. That is the common theme for Christian nationalists.
- [25:39]
C
Hey everyone, Melinda Hale here, executive director of the New Evangelicals. Thanks for listening to our podcast. I just wanted to take a minute to personally invite you to be a part of our community. At tne, we're creating space for people of faith who care about justice, compassion, and living out the teachings of Jesus in real tangible ways. As a nonprofit organization, not only do we offer thought provoking podcasts, but on our new app and online platform, TNE Connect, we offer free educational resources, additional content and a space to connect with like minded people for meaningful conversations and encouragement. So if what we're doing has been helpful to you, if you've learned something, felt seen or been challenged to grow, head over to theneweevangelicals.com to join TNE Connect or make a donation. Your support means the world to us. Thanks for being a part of the movement.
- [26:30]
B
We do have this clip though, because I asked the question, what's the motivation for starting this war? And of course truth teller Caroline Levitz has a great answer for us. So here's what she said.
- [26:42]
E
The President had a feeling again, based on fact, that Iran was going to strike the United States was going to strike our assets and in the region. And he made a determination to launch Operation Epic Fury based on all of those reasons.
- [26:53]
B
And there you go. He had a feeling.
- [26:56]
A
Can I feel how I got feeling it feels to even call it Operation Epic Fury.
- [27:04]
B
Everything about this regime is like that, Right? You're exactly right. It is. It is. Like what are we? Are we 13 playing call of Duty? That's what it sounds like. The only problem is that we're bombing real people and real children. Like we're killing real human beings made in the image of God. And we're just.
- [27:21]
A
There was a girls school that was bombed where like over, I think 150 girls and teachers died.
- [27:27]
B
Yes.
- [27:27]
A
And I don't, I don't, I haven't seen Verification on whether it was Israel or United States. I know Caroline denied it was us, but that's just tragic.
- [27:36]
B
It's absolutely tragic. Again, Christian nationalism is not pro life. They are selectively for their own lives at the expense of everyone else's. Mike Johnson, another Christian nationalist who's also running our government, had this to say about the war. Let's hear what he has to say.
- [27:52]
G
I think passage of a War Powers resolution right now would be a terrible, dangerous idea for all the reasons I've just explained. It would empower our enemies, it would kneecap our own forces, and it would take the ability of the US Military and the commander in chief away from completing this critical mission to keep everybody safe.
- [28:10]
B
What does this mean?
- [28:11]
G
Iran has attacked three of our US Embassies in the last couple of days. Okay. Those are sovereign territories of the US they have declared war on us. I don't believe in the semantics. We've talked about the language this morning.
- [28:22]
B
Go ahead, what's going on?
- [28:24]
A
So he's talking about how they tried to pass a resolution to block Trump's power in basically being able to just do bombs without congressional approval. So they tried to rein him in. I believe it was in the Senate. So I think that's what he's commenting on. Rand Paul joined most Democrats to vote to block Trump, which I think makes sense. Fetterman joined Republicans. So obnoxious. But the resolution did not pass. But I think it wouldn't have passed in the House anyway, where Mike Johnson is the speaker of the House. But it is wild to me that he is saying why it would be bad because it would take power away from the military. But he's literally giving up his own power as a congressman. Like Congress should be the one that are deciding whether or not to start a war.
- [29:24]
B
Right, Right. That's checks and balances. Right. That's how it's supposed to work anyway. Okay, that's helpful.
- [29:29]
A
Yeah.
- [29:29]
G
Not at war. Right now, we're four days in to even very specific, clear mission and operation. Operation Epic Fury, which has two components, as you know, that we have articulated over and over. The President has, the Commander of Joint Chiefs, everybody has explained two points. We had to take care of these ballistic missiles that they were producing at such a rapid pace that our regional allies could not keep up with. We had to ensure that they can't fire all those barrage of missiles at our people, our troops, our assets, our citizens in the region and our installations. We were taking that out. We had to. It's a defensive operation. And secondly, we had to, we had to take care. We had to take their navy down. That's effectively what, in layman's terms, that's what's happening right now. That will be done quickly. As I explained this morning, we almost have, we're, I think, hours away probably from having full operational control over the skies, over Iran, which means that this mission could be completed quickly. We expect that it will be. And then we will hope and pray that the Iranian people take this moment of opportunity, rise up, take their country back, and, and that they, that freedom can flourish there for the first time in generations.
- [30:41]
B
Yes.
- [30:42]
A
Thank you so much.
- [30:43]
B
This is, I mean, I don't understand any of this stuff. Makes no sense. Like, why now? Why all of a sudden do they have explicit missiles?
- [30:49]
A
Why did they have to. Yeah, we had to. You know, you didn't, didn't we bomb
- [30:54]
B
them a few like a month or two ago? Like, I don't understand. It doesn't make any sense that we
- [30:59]
A
wiped out their nuclear facilities. Then they were like, oh, a great accomplice. Like, literally. Trump touted that as one of his amazing accomplishments, that he solved the Iran problem back then.
- [31:11]
B
No, April, the mistake we're making is we're trying to make sense of nonsense. We give these people too much credit. Trying to read between the lines, like, what are they possibly saying? They're saying nothing. They're saying that we are war hungry white Christian nationalists and that we have a great financial incentive to feed the war machine and to take over that region, in part, I would argue, because of prophecy, which we're going to dive into in about five minutes here. I do want to play this other clip that we pulled. It's a little montage of the confusion between these, these MAGA people around if we're actually in war or if we're not, it's hard to tell. So here you go.
- [31:51]
D
And we may have casualties. That often happens in war.
- [31:56]
F
I don't know if this is technically a war. We didn't start this war, but under President Trump, we are finishing it. This isn't a war.
- [32:05]
B
We haven't declared war.
- [32:06]
A
The Secretary of Defense, who calls himself
- [32:08]
E
the Secretary of War, said today, this is a war.
- [32:10]
F
We set the terms of this war from start to finish. Nobody should classify this as war. It is combat operations. War is hell and always will be.
- [32:21]
A
Strategic strikes are not war. I guess they're. The Congress people that you saw in that clip are all convinced that it's
- [32:32]
B
not a war because that would mean that they would have had to have
- [32:35]
A
done their job beforehand to authorize this.
- [32:40]
B
That. That. That's a good line. That. That's a good line. Oh, gosh.
- [32:44]
A
It just shows who. I'm just thankful that I am not a Republican that has to find ways to defend everything that Donald Trump does when it goes against the very fiber of my integrity. Like, I mean, that's an exhausting way to live. And I don't, I don't envy them. I think, stupid that they are selling their souls for Donald Trump, who once hosted the Apprentice, The Home Alone 2 guy, a serial adulterer who's definitely in the Epstein files, accused of terrible things often. Like, imagine having to defend that guy.
- [33:28]
B
Like you do you constantly feel like we predicted this kind of chaos, Remember? Because we were doing this show before the election of Trump and we were trying to warn people as loud as we could, along with many others, that a Trump regime which would be fueled by Christian nationalism would be so bad for everyone, it'd be so chaotic, it'd be so full of propaganda. And honestly, I feel like we underplayed our hand because it is worse than I could have imagined. Especially given the fact that we're only a year in. We are a quarter of the way through a four year term. And the stuff that we've seen over the past year on every level from the stupid military parade. Remember that? Oh, God, remember that failure, right? To Trump sharing AI videos of him taking poops on protesters, to ICE agents running amok, to the ridiculous Pam Bondi hearing where she wouldn't even look at the Epstein survivors. To the fact that Trump is all over the Epstein files and we have no justice. But hey, let's bring the Clintons in for deposition hearings even though they are. They are really far removed from the situation as far as we can tell to now this. We're launching bombs in Iran because why the hell not? And oh, Trump says people are going to die. Our soldiers are going to die. How anti American is that for the party of America first sending our troops to be killed in senseless wars like MTG said, does seem pretty freaking anti American. And we are 25% of the way through this so far.
- [34:56]
A
Well, and Pete Hexeth doesn't want reporters reporting on the U.S. troops that have died because he says it's just to make Trump look bad.
- [35:08]
B
Yeah, I had that clip too. Let's. Let's just give the people a little taste of what that sounds like. Pete Hegseth,
- [35:15]
F
this is what the fake news misses. We've taken control of Iran's airspace and waterways without boots on the ground, we control their fate. But when a few drones get through or tragic things happen, it's front page news. I get it. The press only wants to make the President look bad. But try for once to report the reality. The terms of this war will be set by us at every step.
- [35:44]
B
Just. Jesus Christ. It's, it's.
- [35:48]
A
The reality is they started a war that nobody asked for.
- [35:52]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 100%. Okay, we are gonna dive now into in a second here the theology behind this, because there's an angle that I think a lot of people don't fully understand that we need to dive into. And we're gonna do that in just a second. First, we have a special message. We're gonna take a short break and we're gonna hear from our executive director, Melinda Hale of the New Evangelicals. Be back in a minute.
- [36:16]
C
Hey everyone, thanks for tuning in to the Tim and April show. For those of you that don't know me, my name is Melinda Hale and I'm the executive director of the New Evangelicals. Under our media umbrella, we have three incre for you to enjoy. We have the New Evangelicals podcast, hosted by T and E founder Tim Whitaker and features one on one conversations that dive deep into theology, history and biblical understanding. Of course, we have the Tim and April show, which focuses on current events from a faith based perspective. And our newest show, Advocacy hour, hosted by myself and T and E board president Rebecca Thomas, spotlights ways where you can put your faith into action and actively show up in the world to advocate for justice, equity and compassion. If you haven't yet, please subscribe to all all of our shows as it only helps us as an organization reach a wider audience. Now, what you may not know about our organization is that outside of our media, we also offer free educational courses, free content and resources to help people in different parts of their journey. Everything from educational starter packs on anti racism, resources on how to be an ally, and we have a special component called TNE Action that gives you actionable items on how to show up in the world. Right now, everything that we offer as an organization is completely free. But if you want to help us sustain our work, from media to educational resources, you can do that by becoming a monthly donor at just $5 a month or making a one time donation. Either way, thank you so much for supporting the New Evangelicals. And you can learn more about what we offer and what we do by going to thenewevangelicals.com now back to Tim and April.
- [37:47]
B
Oh, always good to see Melinda, she's the best. And honestly, I love that because it says what I need to say more often, but in a much more concise and professional way. So happy to play that. But, yeah, check out the new evangelicals friends. There is. There are so many resources that the organization offers. I cannot. I mean, it's. It's crazy. It's. It's fantastic. So, okay, let's. Let's get into kind of our lane. April, let's talk about the. The theology of all of this, because there was a story that was going around by the Huffington. It was reported by the Huffington Post and reported widely. And by the way, me and April talked about this before we went live. I do want to give a caveat that this story has one source. Okay. It comes from a website that is the military Religious Freedom Organization.
- [38:35]
A
Foundation.
- [38:36]
B
Foundation, I believe. Yeah. And this story is that there are reports coming in that commanders in the military are telling their troops that this war in Iran is part of God's divine plan and that Trump has been anointed by Jesus to carry this out. That's the general gist. And it went mega, mega viral. I mean, it went all over the place, and for good reason, because it sounds crazy, but I do think that for any of us who grew up in Christian nationalism, it wasn't that crazy at all.
- [39:11]
A
It was not. And in fact, it is nothing new. Like, we heard this. I remember when we had the war in Iraq.
- [39:23]
B
Yep.
- [39:23]
A
They were saying the exact same things back then. This is a sign that Jesus was going to come back imminently, that the rapture was going to happen at any moment.
- [39:35]
B
Yes. So we want to break that down for you guys today. And I want to start off by playing this clip. This is from a church service. Okay. This is from a church service. His name is. Is. The name of the pastor in this church is John Hagee. John Hagee is arguably one of the most influential pastors when it comes to Israel, US Foreign relations because of his views about the end times. Here's the video.
- [40:00]
A
Christian, Zionist, big time.
- [40:01]
B
I mean, he's been going for almost 70 years now doing this stuff. Here is the. The Stinger video that they played right after worship music played. Check this out.
- [40:18]
F
A headline that shook the world. Join you right now with breaking news from the Middle East. Israel has launched preemptive airstrikes against the Islamic Republic of Iran.
- [40:29]
D
The United States military began major combat operations in Iran.
- [40:36]
F
Sirens are wailing and prophecies written thousands of years ago are stepping onto the world stage. Explosions over Tehran retaliatory strikes, nations choosing sides. And the world asks, is this just another war? History is not random. Empires will rise, empires will fall, but the word of God will stand forever. Iran, Israel, America. Where are we in the unfolding plan of God?
- [41:08]
B
And the Bible says, when you see these signs, lift up your heads and rejoice. Your redemption draweth nigh.
- [41:21]
D
For the reading of God's word. Turning.
- [41:23]
A
If you don't know John Hagee, I grew up his. He. His sermons were often played in our house. I mean, my dad was a preacher that also listened to John Hagee, where this is kind of more the charismatic side of the world. So were you familiar with John Hagee growing up?
- [41:39]
B
Loosely. Only because of the Jewish side of this or the Zionism part. But he was not in my circles routinely, no.
- [41:46]
A
Okay, so I have to tell you about blood moons.
- [41:49]
B
Please tell me everything.
- [41:51]
A
John Hagee, he's written books about blood moons, which he says is one of the signs of Jesus's imminent return. And so there has been so much chatter online because March 3rd, there was a lunar eclipse that is also considered a blood moon. And so they taking that on, you know, in the aftermath of the Iran war, as signs that the rapture is imminent. So, yes. So he wrote a book called Four Blood Moons. He's done so many sermons on blood moons. I don't. It's probably like a blood moon was just a household regular thing that we talked about, but as a teenager, I was just very familiar with blood moons. And for the theology behind this. Yeah, it's basically a claim that it's a sign of the end times that comes out of the book of Joel where it says, quote, the sun will turn into darkness and the moon into blood before the great and terrible day of the Lord comes. It's repeated later by Peter during Pentecost and Acts, though he says that the date of Pentecost was already fulfilled. And then it's also mentioned in the book of Revelation 6, 11, 13, verse 12, where it says, and I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and lo, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood. So it's just one of the many signs that a lot of evangelicals look at as signs that Jesus is going to come back. And I remember I sat through so many end times prophecy sermon series, reading all of the books. And earthquakes were a big sign, but the biggest sign were things that had to do with Israel. Anytime Israel got into some sort of war or kerfuffle in the Middle east, there was this almost glee, this joy that we would have, no matter how many people died, because we thought it was a sign that Jesus was going to come back and the Rapture would happen. And if you don't know, the Rapture is the belief that at any moment, a trumpet's going to sound in the air, in the sky, and all of the Christians that are alive on earth are going to float up into the sky, meet Jesus in the air, and go to heaven without ever having to die. And if you read the Left behind series and watch different books about the Rapture, we were also told that our clothes would fall because you couldn't bring anything earthly with you. So we're flying up through the sky naked.
- [44:37]
B
Yep.
- [44:39]
A
And it sounds so absurd saying it out loud, but this is not a fringe belief in evangelical circles, and it has actual dire consequences in foreign policy. In Trump's first term, Paula White, who does adhere to premillennial dispensationalism, she and other evangelicals around Trump encouraged Trump to move the US Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, which they believed was a sign of the prophecy, because basically they believe that Jerusalem needs to be the capital of Israel, and so us moving our embassy there would just eventually fulfill that prophecy. That needs to happen before Jesus comes back. And people died in the aftermath of that move, like it caused civil unrest in the region. And literally, people don't care because they, they get excited about the idea that Jesus is coming back. And so now you have people that are Christian nationalists that are influencing foreign policy, like the Mike Johnson's of the world and Paula Whites of the world that have Trump's ear. Pete Hegseth is also a Christian nationalist, although you'll get into later how he's. They're a little bit different and the reasons why they do it, but you have people influencing foreign policy over really absurd beliefs.
- [46:00]
B
Yeah. If you have not seen this in action, I want to play this clip of, of a, of, of a mega church pastor kind of doing what April just described in real time and how convincing it can sound if you don't know anything, because it sounds convincing. Like they have really well developed rhetoric that is very like, oh, okay, that makes sense. Especially if you believe that the Bible is God's word and these pastors understand the Bible better than anyone else. Right. You trust that your pastor is giving you what the Bible says because they're the expert and you're not. So this, this is a short clip. This is, this clip is actually older it's about a year and a half, maybe two years old. But Josh Howerton, who's the pastor, he reshares it every time we drop bombs in the Middle east. It always gets reshared. Here's what this sounds like when it's said by someone who's a really good orator of this stuff.
- [46:49]
E
Got to watch this.
- [46:50]
F
The Bible says that this attack at the end of time will come on Israel from the north and the south, and then that will be the final war, the war to end all wars that will usher in the end of time. Now here's the question. Are we entering into that war right now? In Ezekiel 38 and 39, it mentions nations. Gog and Magog. That's. That would be like modern day Russia.
- [47:09]
B
Russia.
- [47:10]
F
It also mentions persia in Ezekiel 38 and 39. That corresponds to modern day Iran. What we do know is that if Iran enters the war, that Turkey and Russia will probably go with them. Right behind them will be North Korea and China. And if all of the world powers start attacking from the north and the south, start trying to attack Israel, that could be the war to end all wars that ushers in the end of history. You may be going right now like, bro, this is heavy, man. Can I just say this? There's a lot of Hope in Ezekiel 38 and 39, because we know how that battle ends. But the Bible says exactly at the moment when it looks like all hope is lost, forgotten for the descendants of Isaac, that the Lord himself, Jesus Christ, will descend. He will take the battlefield, and he will win the war once and for all, for all time.
- [48:00]
B
Okay, I want to bring up two quick points here, and then we're going to get into kind of debunking all this. But this, again, if you don't know any better, it sounds like almost plausible, you know, oh, wait, Gog and Magog, modern day Russia and Iran. Yeah, those places don't exist anymore. They're called Russia in Iran. They're not in the Bible. But Josh has to make that leap to convince his audience that's what's going on. The other thing I want to mention is the amount of glee in Josh Howerton's face as he talks about tens of thousands of people dying. That's the thing is these people love when wars like this happen because it doesn't affect them because they're on God's side. They're the ones doing the killing. You. You better believe that. If it was the opposite, okay, if. If Iran was the world's greatest superpower, and they believe that the Usher in the end of. Of times, they had to bomb civilians in America. I don't think Josh Howerton would be like, hey, guys, we don't worry, have no fear. We know how this ends because he's not on the side of the suffering. This is a very self centered, Western colonized theology that preaches a theology of death, frankly. I mean, Josh is literally smiling when he says that we know how this battle ends. Which by the way, I think Josh makes. April, you're muted by the way if you're trying to talk.
- [49:16]
A
That's fun. Cool.
- [49:17]
B
Okay. I just saw you making a lot of gestures, but I couldn't hear you. But Josh, I was like, wow, he's
- [49:24]
A
not letting me talk.
- [49:27]
B
Josh makes the point. He. Where is it? Oh, right here, right here. Listen to this. Right here.
- [49:35]
F
But the Bible says exactly at the moment when it looks like all hope is lost, forgotten for the descendants of Isaac, that the Lord himself, Jesus Christ will descend, he will take the battlefield and he will win the war once.
- [49:48]
B
Okay, who's going to tell Josh Howerton that he's not part of the descendants of Isaac? Like, he's not included in that crew. He's just not. Like, dude, it's like you're not, you're not, you're not part of, by your own interpreter interpretation. You're not part of the chosen. Okay, well.
- [50:04]
A
And John Hagee said the same thing and at the end of that video, he said, when you see these signs happening, rejoice.
- [50:11]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. The last thing I want to show you guys now, I'm going to break all this down and where it comes from, because I'm telling you, you're going to. Your jaw's going to drop. When I explained to you where this theology developed from is I do want to play April, the Left behind trailer. I just think it's worth, for people who do not grow up in this world, for them to see and hear the kind of stuff that we were taught was like really going to happen at some point in history that gave us so much fear around the rapture and the end times. Okay, again, if you don't know the Left behind books or the horrible movies, the Kirk Cameron, you're going to watch the trailer for one right now and you can see exactly what we're talking about.
- [50:51]
F
It's time to change history. Unbelievable. The whole world turned upside down.
- [50:55]
A
What is.
- [50:56]
H
Did you see?
- [50:57]
A
This is insane.
- [50:58]
F
People don't just disappear. What's next, huh? You knew people are missing.
- [51:03]
H
Dozens of seats are Empty.
- [51:04]
F
What's going on, Captain?
- [51:06]
A
This.
- [51:09]
D
How do you hide from something like
- [51:10]
F
this was about to happen. I am standing in the middle of an allout attack. Prepare to witness.
- [51:18]
B
Are you telling me that they're dead? That they're not coming back?
- [51:21]
F
An ancient prophecy I was so used to.
- [51:25]
B
It's written in the scriptures, I guarantee
- [51:27]
F
it about to become true.
- [51:30]
E
What's coming?
- [51:31]
B
He's going to get a hours.
- [51:36]
F
Based on the New York Times bestseller.
- [51:38]
E
They're not here.
- [51:39]
I
They're not anywhere.
- [51:41]
F
Left behind.
- [51:42]
B
If you start dreams against us.
- [51:44]
F
Nobody just walked off this airplane.
- [51:46]
B
We are at 37,000ft.
- [51:48]
H
I don't know if they're dead or
- [51:49]
D
lost or even worse or more of us disappear.
- [51:52]
F
The sun is gone. Fire is raining from the sky. Fear.
- [51:58]
E
When is the last time you slept?
- [51:59]
F
I'm going to get you to a safe house. Deception in the garden There was a serpent. Do you know who you're dealing with?
- [52:08]
A
Do you?
- [52:11]
F
I knew your message. I knew your words. Left behind the movie. Oh, that's true.
- [52:20]
B
Seeing is believing. There you go, friends. That was the kind of media we were taught to watch as kids. And it wasn't, it wasn't sold as hey, this is just a funny fictional story like you're watching Toy Stories. I mean this is, this is what's gonna happen.
- [52:37]
A
And you better make sure that hasn't happened yet.
- [52:40]
B
And you better make sure that you are really safe. Because in that movie there's a pastor who gets left behind and he's like wrestling with his faith. He's like, I thought I was a real Christian. So there's all this anxiety. Okay, so the question is, the question is, is if you didn't know any better, like me and April, you were just taught that this is what the Bible clearly teaches. The Bible clearly teaches this, this belief. God, April.
- [53:04]
A
I legit thought I was left behind when I was 13, for 20 whole minutes my family disappeared. I had a full on panic and I was trying to. I gave myself the pep talk that it's okay, a guillotine death will be really quick stop. Like literally as a 13 year old to be okay with being a martyr and dying by guillotine. Because that is the, the murder of choice for the Antichrist and his people. Also based on the Left behind books and a Thief in the Night which traumatized people in the 70s.
- [53:38]
B
So yeah, that makes sense. Okay, so here's the question, right? Where did this belief come from? How did we get here? Because if you listen to Josh Howerton or John Hagee, they'll tell you. We are just, we're just reading the b. Just tell you what the Bible clearly says. That is not true though, okay? That is not true. So I'm going to blow your minds friends with, with this story, but I assure you this is a true story. Okay, so there's a guy in the 19th century. His name, April, is John Nelson Darby. John Nelson Darby, born in. John Nelson Darby, born in the 1800s or 1800, dies in 1882. He Is this Bible theologian dude, okay, who's like, you know, all in on the Bible. And at some point in his life, he has a really bad accident. He falls off of. Off of a horse and hits his head really hard. This is true. You can look it up. And he starts during his recovery studying the Bible and he creates this theology called dispensationalism. Okay, Remember, this is the 19th century. This is not ancient biblical theology. And John Nelson Darby posits that history is divided into seven. Seven different ages or dispensations all the way from the Garden of Eden all the way up until now. I had a list of the seven, but roughly it's something like, you know, there's the age of innocence, there is the age of the law, there's the age of grace, the age of the church, etc. Okay? And these seven dispensations are happening throughout time. And we are currently in the sixth dispensation. We're six out of seven. Now, the other key thing about this is that John Nelson Darby interpreted the Bible very differently than most people in two distinct ways. Number one, he believed that God had two distinct plans for the Jews and for the church. This is not a commonly held belief. So he believed that God had a special plan for the Jewish people, and he believed that part of that plan is tied into how the end of the world is going to happen. And he developed this rapture theology where at some point people will get sucked up, the true believers into heaven while God. While God spends seven years pouring out his wrath on the earth and judging it. The other belief that he developed or interpretation that he developed was taking passages from Revelation or from Daniel, things that might sound prophetic. And instead of reading them in their own context, which by the way, most biblical scholars will tell you that those prophecies are. Were already fulfilled or are not talking about. About still to come future events. John Nelson Darby posited that, no, these are still to come future events that we have to look out for. So the mark of the beast, we have to look out for the Antichrist Rising. We have to look out for one world government. We have to look out for. We have to look out for certain things that will signal to us that the end of the world is coming. One of those big prophecies that, that developed as dispensational dispensationalism started to grow, which by the way, it was not popular in the beginning. People thought that John Nelson Darby was mad until the Scofield Bible put dispensationalist study notes in their, in their Bibles. That's when this started to really grow. And one of the things that, that became very big was the Jews returning to their homeland. Now there's a great book I have on my shelf by someone named Donald Dayton. He passed away, unfortunately. He wrote a really good book on. It's called A History of Christian Zionism. And in his book he talks about how early Zionism was actually largely rejected by Jewish people. Most Jews did not believe in returning to a nation state or some kind of state at all. It was a very Protestant idea to begin with. As time develops, that becomes more popular. And in 1948 the nation state of Israel was created. A lot of dispensationalists who are now inside of America, now in our government see this as a huge sign that we are one step down, closer to the end of all things. Okay? That the end of the world is imminent. The Rapture is coming. Friends, we have watched prophecy fulfilled in front of our very eyes. The other key thing is that for these prophecies, as these prophecies get, get fulfilled, they, they, they take a verse in, I think it's Genesis 3:23, where Abram, soon to be Abraham, is told by God that God will bless those who bless Abram, who's the father of Israel in the Bible, and he will curse those who curse Abram. And Christian Zionists like John Hagee, Mike Huckabee take that verse and, and say, therefore America must always stand. Thank you. Genesis 12. Thank you, Tandem. Therefore is America must always stand with Israel, because if we don't, God will judge our country and his wrath will be poured out on us. This theology developed from a dude in the 19th century who fell off his horse and hit his head and developed dispensationalism. It is not ancient, it is not historic, it is not orthodox. It's very much now a very white European centric theology mostly developed in modern, in today's America and some parts of Europe. That's where all of this comes from. All of it, all of it.
- [58:58]
A
I remember I was probably, honestly, it might have been after I thought I was left behind. I asked my dad where, because I went to my little concordance in my Bible and looked for the word Rapture. Couldn't find it, Couldn't find it. It's not in the Bible. I asked my dad, I was like, dad, where, where can I read about the Rapture in the Bible? And so obviously he told me, I think it's like first Thessalonians, the verse where it says those alive in God will be caught up. And so caught up is basically whatever the original Greek or Hebrew word is translates to rapture. Yeah, so that's what I was told. And then when I started deconstructing during the first Trump term, I learned about John Nelson Darby. I read this whole story because I wanted to know the history of the Rapture belief, because I went back and read the Bible, all the places that we use to justify believing in the Rapture. And I was like, this doesn't really say what I was taught. It says right. And I read that story about John Nelson Darby and there's also reports too that he kind of stole the idea from a 14 year old Irish girl named Margaret McDonald. But that's okay. That's another, that's another angle of this. Who had a dream anyway? Doesn't matter. I was pissed. I remember just being so pissed because the amount of anguish and honestly trauma that I experienced from believing in this, I was just mad. It was honestly probably the easiest theological belief that I had held pre deconstruction to let go of. Because the moment you take a step back and just look at the belief on surface level, it doesn't make any sense. It makes no sense. And I just let it, I let it go. And honestly, I felt like the weight that I had been carrying. I felt so much lighter after just stopping and believing in nonsense because, and here's the thing, not only is it damaging on foreign policy and the idea that we get excited about being in wars, especially when you have people like Mike Johnson, Pete Hegseth that have positions of power that really can cause so much damage globally. Beyond that, it is very problematic and harmful to the individual that holds this belief. Because you. I remember I knew people that would not plan for their careers, wouldn't, didn't want to go to college because they thought it was pointless because Jesus was going to come back because we were told back then. I remember being a child like 8 years old, counting down, looking out my window and counting down because I thought when I Get to a zero. Jesus is going to come back. That's how full on I believed this. And we just, we, we cover all the different rapture predictions. There was a new one just this past September. People were quitting their jobs, some people sold their cars because they genuinely believed that the Rapture was going to happen on September 23rd. And it ruins people's lives, this belief. And it keeps Christians from actually trying to solve real life problems on the earth because you just believe it doesn't matter because Jesus is going to come back and then it's going to start the seven year tribulation, which at the end I was told and taught that God would destroy the earth and build a new earth, which is why you have a lot of really callous idea beliefs when it comes to climate change, which is very real.
- [62:36]
B
Yes, yes.
- [62:37]
A
And evangelicals will, even ones that admit it is real, say it doesn't matter. Doesn't matter because this is going to come back. So it is so harmful on multiple levels.
- [62:48]
B
100%. You're spot on. Now, one piece of nuance I want to give people because it is important. Not all Christian nationalists have this eschatology that is a fancy way of saying end of end times theology. And there's a different perspective in, in, in evangelicalism that I think it's called premillennialism or post millennialism. Post. I think it's post pre trib.
- [63:11]
A
Mid trib.
- [63:11]
B
Post trib. Yeah. And this is someone like Doug Wilson would not. Doug Wilson's not dispensationalist. Doug Wilson is not this way. A good rule of thumb is that the more reformed, the more non charismatic someone is, the more likely they are to not be a dispensationalist. Okay. Doug Wilson believes that it is their job as believers to Christianize the world to usher in the return of Christ. Dispensationalists believe that things will get worse and worse until Christ comes back to then judge the world. So the worst things get the closer we are to the end times.
- [63:45]
A
And it's important to note too, the Rapture is different than the second coming of Jesus. So you have reformed people that believe in the second coming of Jesus, which is just Jesus coming back to basically end the war of all wars. And then the Rapture is this idea that Jesus doesn't come back to earth, meets us in the air and basically saves the Christians from having to go through the terribleness that's going to be the great tribulation and the war to end all wars. So you can believe In a second coming, in a second coming of Jesus without believing in the Rapture.
- [64:17]
B
I totally agree. That's, that's well said. And look, it doesn't, ultimately doesn't matter what they believe because they, they want the same thing. They want control, they want power, they want these things to happen ultimately or they, I should say that they low key celebrate, especially when it doesn't affect them. Right. If Obama gets elected, well, the Antichrist is here, which you would think for dispensationalists is a good thing, means they're closer to the end of the world. But instead you can't vote for Obama, he's terrible. But if we're bombing Iran, hey guys, we're getting closer to the end, right? So if it doesn't affect them, it's great.
- [64:46]
A
And just as a sidebar, as someone who has very deeply studied the Antichrist and all of the signs to look for, I do get triggered every once in a while because I did used to hold these beliefs so wholeheartedly. Donald Trump actually checks a lot of boxes for the signs of the Antichrist. And there are actually some evangelicals that make videos because they believe Trump is the Antichrist. But somehow there's always this weird balance between don't vote for this person because he might be the Antichrist, and vote for this person because he might be the Antichrist, and we can usher in the end of the world and Jesus can come back.
- [65:25]
B
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
- [65:30]
I
Hi, my name is Kim, and I came to the New Evangelicals via the podcast. I didn't grow up in church. I didn't discover evangelicalism until I was in my early 20s. And during the time that I went to a Southern Baptist church, I thought that it was okay. I formed what I thought were true friendships. And there were some things over the years that kind of gave me pause for a minute and made me think, I don't know, this makes me kind of feel uncomfortable. But I just kind of let it go and didn't dwell on it too much. And then when Covid happened and we were forced to not go to church, it was like somebody took the blinders off. And I was able to really look at some of the behaviors and, and experiences that I had had over the past few years and say, wow, that's kind of messed up. And ever since then, I have been an avid fan of tne and I listen to the podcast, I'm part of the Facebook group, I follow on Instagram TikTok occasionally. And I really am very passionate about Making sure that evangelical leaders are held accountable for. For what they have done and continue to do. And make sure that people know that there is another way forward and that you can reclaim your Christian faith.
- [66:56]
B
Okay, let's read a few super chats. What do you think about that? We got a bunch. Yeah. Okay. By the way, I made it. I made it to the $1aminute. $50. I. I know.
- [67:07]
A
He got you. They paid you. They paid you.
- [67:10]
B
Thank you. Oh, here it is. Now I can say it. Congratulations, Tim. You did it. Get it out of your system. Ali Beth Stuckey, who, by the way, would not be a dispensationalist. She'd be. She would be more of the Doug Wilson type as far as end times theology goes, and that there's a whole deep dive on that that we could do in the future. GTO6789 says Rob Zombie has the best trolling of John Hagee ever. He auto tunes Hagee's voice in a song named after his sermon about satanic cyanide.
- [67:36]
A
I have not seen this.
- [67:37]
B
Me either. I would play it, but we'll get demonetized. Dr. Amanda Ortiz, raise your hand if you were traumatized by thinking you got left behind as an evangelical child. Yep. Can confirm. Dunk Dogen. My old youth group attended Hell House with a left behind theme. The trauma. Yeah, we cover that around Halloween. The Hell houses, it's solidarity. TM Poppy01 or Pape01 character jumping in the air, joyfully saying yippee. Oh, it's an emoji that I have to describe. Thank you.
- [68:08]
A
I love when you describe emojis.
- [68:10]
B
Thank you. And Darren Garvey, 8332. Lemon character waving goodbye while sending a shooting star. Thanks for that one and last one here. Destiny. Lovers of stars. Happy belated birthday. April, I forgot to tell you before, My birthday was February 23rd. We are two days apart. You guys are the best. Friends. Thanks so much for being here. Thanks for all the super chats. They make this show possible. Make sure to give this video a like, if you're watching on YouTube, subscribe to the channel. We just hit 13,000 subs. We love that. It's great. And if you're on substack, thank you so much for being here as well. Friends, it means the world. The Tim and April show is produced by the New Evangelicals. You heard about the great offerings that the organization has. But before we get into our last segment, which, by the way, April, can I call an audible on our video? I have a Better one, I think.
- [68:57]
A
Oh, sure.
- [68:58]
B
Do you trust me?
- [68:59]
A
I trust you.
- [69:00]
B
Okay, before we do that, I want to play a little teaser from a brand new series that the New Evangelicals is doing. Check it out, see what you think.
- [69:13]
E
The one instance that comes to my mind, I was in high school. I was a freshman in high school, part of the youth group. Like I said, all my friends were in the youth group. And we were sitting down at the lunchtime table one day, and this guy who I was friends with, he's funny guy. I've known him, like most of my childhood. And he came to lunch and he was so proud of himself. And he said, you guys, I just ripped down the sign for the LGBT club. And I was like, why would you do that?
- [69:48]
B
Check out this series. It's really good. We're highlighting people from our community. It's on YouTube right now. He newevangelicals on YouTube. Check it out. We have a few more of those videos coming. It's always great hearing people share their stories of kind of how they left the basement of fundamentalism and then found a better path forward. So that person, by the way, folks, was Rebecca, who's our board president. She's awesome.
- [70:09]
A
She's great.
- [70:10]
B
Okay, shall we get to our final and favorite segment?
- [70:14]
A
This is gonna be a surprise. So I'm excited.
- [70:15]
B
It hit me while we were going, I think you're gonna like this one. Here we go.
- [70:19]
A
O Weird Christian.
- [70:23]
B
I think this video is perfect because it does show how conspiratorial so much of this rapture world really becomes. Do you remember this video?
- [70:38]
A
Oh, yes.
- [70:40]
B
This, I think.
- [70:41]
A
The monster lady.
- [70:43]
B
The monster lady. This video is wild, and I need people to see it. If you want to see how. How people make.
- [70:52]
A
This is like classic Weird Christian.
- [70:55]
B
Yeah, this is. I was so evangelical and was like, this lady is wild. You know? Watch this video. This is something else. Friends, here we go. This is a lady describing the problem with monster energy drinks.
- [71:07]
H
Look at your M closely. There's a gap right here in the letter M. It's never connected. So you go into Hebrew. The letter V is also the number six. Short top, long tail. Short top, long tail. You could have here in Hebrew, 666 on the can. But my interest is the word monster. What do you see in the O? There's a cross.
- [71:36]
E
Okay.
- [71:36]
H
What has Christ got to do with an energy drink, let alone the name monster? So I thought, well, maybe this is a Christian company. Then BFC at the bottom of the can. Do you know what that stands for that's the F word Can. In fact, they write it on the side of the can, so I know that's the F word.
- [72:01]
I
Okay?
- [72:02]
H
Now, do you know what a MILF is? Yes, that's on the box. Milfs dig it. And you will too. This is not a Christian company at all. So why would they have the cross on the can? Here is the message. Antichrist 666 in Hebrew. And then the Bible talks about the beast in Revelation and look at monsters. And this is their statement. You see these M's everywhere? Hats, T shirts. Is there another agenda here? If God can use people and product, so can Satan. And look at it this way. Even if the M was not the issue, you cannot deny that that is a cross. And what is witchcraft when the cross goes upside down? Bottoms up and the double.
- [73:01]
B
And the devil laughs.
- [73:05]
A
I. This is my thing with these conspiracies.
- [73:08]
B
Oh, gee, man.
- [73:09]
A
What does SA get out of doing all that? What happens if you drink? I mean, I've drinking a. Drinking drunk, drank a monster drink before, and nothing happened. I don't like what's. What is Satan's end game. And hiding in plain sight on this
- [73:27]
B
can, My favorite is that she has a whole board. Like, this woman's so convinced she made a board.
- [73:35]
A
She did homework.
- [73:37]
B
I mean, Kip Davis, I think, is in the chat. Kip, if you're there, you're an expert on the Bible. Is this board accurate? Like, is this a great connection to make between the monster energy drink can and the letters in the Hebrew Alphabet that translates to 666? Oh, my God, it's just wild, man. But this, you know, you wonder how so many white evangelicals believe the election was stolen, that Trump is saving America. All these conspiracies right here is how this is. This is just part of this, guys, I'm telling you, if I saw this in, like a. In a convention, as a. As an evangelical, what I would think is, okay, she's kind of crazy, but also, the 666 piece is interesting. Hmm. That's what I would think to myself. I wouldn't buy it wholesale, but I would certainly be like, well, that's not a bad point to make. You know, that. That. That's.
- [74:28]
C
It's just.
- [74:29]
B
It's in the culture. That's just how it operates. So.
- [74:31]
A
But that's why. I mean, that's why people buy it. Like, all. Every conspiracy has some level, I don't even know of truth. But there are things that believability is true. Yeah, there's some level of believability to it. Otherwise you wouldn't have people that believe it. I don't know if you remember back in the day, there were a ton of people like YouTube videos going through frame by frame Beyonce videos to try to prove how she was part of the Illuminati and the Satanist and I don't. And Jay Z too. I mean, honestly, the Illuminati stuff, every
- [75:07]
B
time, every super bowl it's coming up, you know.
- [75:11]
A
Yeah, yeah. Oh, every time. One of my favorite things to do, I, I'm due to make another one actually, is to basically flip the script and find Satan in conservative evangelical things like just go one step crazier. Like, I don't know, like bad bunny halftime show, for example. There was, there's every halftime show, every Grammy award show, every Academy Awards, there are people that get these little screenshots to quote unquote prove Satanism, that it's a satanic ritual right in front of our faces and Satan is laughing at us. And so like I just did one recently where I went like frame by frame of Kid Rock's performance on the alternative halftime show to also prove Satanism. And you can just do it easy.
- [76:05]
B
It's not hard. It's not hard.
- [76:06]
A
No.
- [76:07]
B
I love that. I love that. Well, friends, thanks so much for being here. Thanks for joining the show. It really means the world. We go live every Thursday at 12:00 clock Eastern right here on YouTube and on substack with our friends Lincoln Square Media. We also drop an episode every Tuesday on our YouTube channel and on our podcast so you can get this content wherever you get your media entertainment. And also facts because we bring the hard hitting facts. No joking around on this show. We're very serious, so.
- [76:33]
A
No, very serious. Not funny at all.
- [76:36]
B
Not funny at all. Blood moons and left behind and monster energy drinks. And as always, friends, make sure to check out the new evangelicals to find a better path forward in your faith. TheNewEvangelicals.com or @The New Evangelicals on Instagram or YouTube.
- [76:50]
A
Yes, I think we have a couple super chats.
- [76:52]
B
Oh, thanks for holding me accountable. Thank you. Such a good accountability partner. We have one. We have one more. Okay, why don't you read it then?
- [77:02]
A
Sure. From boy mom for life. I was terrified of the Rapture. I kept this verse and every morning I would think is the day so it wouldn't happen. But about that day or hour, no one knows. Only the Father. Matthew 24:36. I knew other people that would do that? Yeah, because it says, no man will know the hour. So you just come out and say, today will be the day, and then you automatically postpone the rapture? Yeah, it's a fun little trick of the evangelical teenager that was just traumatized every day. Dr. Kipp replied to you, by the way, on your 666 question.
- [77:33]
B
Thank you. He says, well, it's true that the letters correspond to the Hebrew numeral 6, but that's just not how anyone has ever done Gematria. Thank you. Thank you. And then he goes on the significance of the number 666 or 616 in some translations, I guess. I don't know. It's in the edition of the Numbers which spells out Caesar Nero. We know this because of the orthographic variant in the. In the mss. I am. I am not intelligent enough. I am. Am I missing it? What is in the. Miss. What does that mean?
- [78:12]
A
Mss? I'm sure it's in manuscripts. He says manuscripts.
- [78:16]
B
Thank you, Kip. I'm. Guys, I remember. Traumatized my car shop. It's been a long day.
- [78:22]
A
Okay, said. Hold on. GTO6789 says we missed their second super chat.
- [78:28]
B
Okay, I will find it. Hang on. Which one is it?
- [78:32]
A
Let me sleep tonight. Tim, we cannot miss one.
- [78:36]
B
Oh, here it is. Yeah, I found it. Asriel is a far better movie than Left Behind.
- [78:42]
A
I have not seen that.
- [78:44]
B
Me either, but noted.
- [78:46]
A
Oliver Brown said so a woman could know the hour. I like that. I am no man.
- [78:54]
B
Oh, good. All right, friends. Well, thanks for being here. I'm Tim Whitaker.
- [78:58]
A
I'm April. Literally, for some reason.
- [79:03]
B
This is weird. All right, bye.
- [79:05]
A
Goodbye,
- [79:08]
B
Sam.