Everything you need to know about microneedling.

Summary

The Treatment Room Podcast – Ep. “Everything you need to know about microneedling”

Host: Tessa Zolli
Guest: Bri Holt, Head of Sales at Juve Pen, Licensed Esthetician
Date: June 12, 2026

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Overview

This episode offers an in-depth, energetic exploration of microneedling—one of the most buzzed-about corrective skin treatments. Host Tessa Zolli welcomes Bri Holt of Juve Pen to unpack everything estheticians and skincare lovers need to know: from collagen induction, best practices, and device differences to candidacy, results, and common mistakes. Whether you’re a pro looking to sharpen your technical knowledge or a client considering the procedure, this episode delivers research-backed insights and hands-on protocols, all in an engaging tone.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Bri Holt’s Professional Journey

[05:19; 07:56]

• Bri’s background transitioned from dermatology internships to hands-on roles at Laser Away and eventually into leading at Whispermed/Juve Pen.
• Combines sales, education, and esthetic skills: “I get the best of both worlds working and selling, but also being hands on as like the in house esthetician and kind of the head of education.”

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2. Microneedling Basics

[08:36; 08:48]

• Defined as collagen induction therapy: device creates controlled micro-injuries, stimulating the body’s natural healing and collagen production.
• Targets: fine lines, wrinkles, acne scars, large pores, hyperpigmentation, stretch marks, and even hair thinning.
• “I think of it as, like, a full reset for your skin when you get microneedling done.” — Bri Holt [09:16]

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3. Product Absorption & Biologics

[10:27 – 11:24; 11:51 – 12:34]

• Microneedling temporarily opens micro-channels for deep product absorption—mainly during treatment, for a few hours.
• Most effective biologics: growth factors, exosomes, PRP (platelet-rich plasma).
  • “We love anti ag growth factors...a regular, a brightening one, and a hair growth factor.” — Bri Holt [12:18]

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4. Best Practices for Performing Microneedling

[12:51 – 14:26]

• Pre-treatment: Meticulous selection and consultation—contraindications include active rosacea, eczema, psoriasis, acne, open wounds, and isotretinoin use.
• Setup: Absolute sterility and thorough skin cleansing. “You don’t want to microneedle dirt and grime into the skin. That’s just going to cause issues.” — Bri Holt [13:30]

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5. Technique & Safety

[14:26 – 18:35]

• Always cleanse prior—alcohol wipes are common, though opinions differ.
• Purging (initial breakouts) can happen, especially in acne-prone clients, but should resolve after 2–3 sessions.
• Actives (e.g., retinoids) should be stopped 48–72 hours before treatment.
• "Not everyone is going to be a candidate and a lot of providers need to understand that..." — Bri Holt [13:20]
• “I actually really don’t love microneedling over any acne...it kind of just makes it more inflamed.” — Bri Holt [18:15]

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6. Device Quality & Juve Pen Features

[18:58 – 22:54]

• Juve Pen stands out for:

  • Lightweight feel (reduces hand fatigue)
  • High-quality, non-bending needles for precise micro-injuries
  • Affordable consumables ($20 per cartridge, vs. $60–$80 competitors)
  • Quiet operation: “I’ve used skin pen before and I love skin pen, but it’s just a lot louder and I think it scares my patients sometimes.” — Bri Holt [22:29]

• Product Line: Juve Pen J1 (customizable, starter-friendly, $2,000) and Juve Pen MD (FDA-cleared, regulated speed, suitable for medical spas).

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7. Adjusting Needle Depth & Speed

[26:01 – 32:19]

• Set based on area, skin thickness/sensitivity, and concern (scars vs. lines).
• Start with conservative depth (0.25–0.5mm), especially in first treatments.
  • More depth for thicker skin/pitted scars, less for thin, aged, or rosacea-prone skin.
• For delicate areas (eyes, neck): lower depth (to 0.25mm or less), slower speed.
• Always test on the patient, especially when new.
• “I don’t believe in [extensive bleeding] and I think you can get just as much out of the, you know, the treatment with a small amount of pinpoint bleeding.” — Bri Holt [27:47]

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8. Technique & Targeted Treatment Examples

[28:49 – 34:42]

• Case examples: severe scars (higher depth/speed), rosacea (minimal, careful passes), mature skin (flat, slightly increasing depth over time).
• Avoid over-treating delicate areas: lips, under-eye, tip of nose.
• “We want it to be a clean poke. That is essential.” — Bri Holt [20:16]

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9. Common Mistakes to Avoid

[37:14 – 38:42]

• Overtreatment: Too many passes, too much depth, treating too frequently.
• Using the same settings for all patients.
• Using the wrong products: No actives, retinoids, strong vitamin C, or fragrances during/after treatment.
  • “Microneedling creates the temporary micro channels in the skin. So we have to be really mindful of what we're applying...” — Bri Holt [37:55]

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10. Proper Technique & Motion

[39:25 – 40:26]

• Consistency is key (hashtags/linear/circular as long as full coverage).
• Gentle, gliding passes with sufficient slip.

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11. Post-care, Downtime, and Aftereffects

[40:26 – 43:44]

• Next day: Slight redness/swelling; shouldn’t appear extremely bruised or inflamed.
  • “It is minimal downtime and done the right way, it should be minimal downtime.” — Bri Holt [43:22]
• No cleanser or products on day one except for hydrating serum.
• Avoid heat (saunas, steamy showers), sweating, and sun for 48 hours.
• Sun protection is critical—hat first day, mineral SPF second day onward.
• Makeup ok after 48 hours, but ideally give skin time to breathe.

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12. Professional vs. At-home Devices

[44:12 – 46:25]

• Risks of non-professional devices: improper depth, scarring, infection, skin barrier damage, aggravation of undiagnosed conditions.
  • “I see so many people ruin their skin barrier with [at-home devices].” — Bri Holt [44:53]
• Professional procedure only: must be done by licensed estheticians, nurses, or medical providers.

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13. Industry Insights & Clinic News

[48:10 – 48:54]

• Juve Pen opening a specialized medspa focused solely on microneedling: Temple by Talia—launching soon.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I think of it as, like, a full reset for your skin when you get microneedling done.” — Bri Holt [09:16]
• “You don’t want to microneedle dirt and grime into the skin. That’s just going to cause issues.” — Bri Holt [13:30]
• “Not everyone is going to be a candidate and a lot of providers need to understand that...” — Bri Holt [13:20]
• “We want it to be a clean poke. That is essential.” — Bri Holt [20:16]
• “It is minimal downtime and done the right way, it should be minimal downtime.” — Bri Holt [43:22]
• “I see so many people ruin their skin barrier with [at-home devices].” — Bri Holt [44:53]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:53 – Episode introduction: Today's focus and guest intro
• 05:19 – Bri’s professional journey
• 08:48 – Microneedling defined
• 10:27 – Product absorption, window of opportunity
• 11:51 – Best biologics during treatment
• 12:51 – Step-by-step: Selecting/consulting microneedling clients
• 18:58 – Juve Pen vs. other devices
• 22:54 – Pen details and accessibility
• 26:01 – Adjusting settings for face areas and patient profiles
• 34:12 – Why increase the speed; depth for delicate areas
• 37:14 – Major mistakes estheticians make
• 39:25 – Technique: Patterns and proper motion
• 40:26 – Normal vs. concerning post-treatment reactions
• 42:13 – Post-care: sunscreen, sun avoidance, makeup guidelines
• 44:12 – At-home devices and safety
• 48:10 – Juve Pen’s new microneedling-exclusive medspa

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Connect and Learn More

• Follow Juve Pen: @juvepenJ1 (Instagram & TikTok)
• New clinic: “Temple by Talia” — exclusively microneedling, opening soon.

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Episode Tone

Friendly, direct, highly educational, and accessible; Tessa’s hosting style is supportive and curious, while Bri brings expert clarity and warmth. The episode blends evidence-based advice with real-world, hands-on tips—making it informative for both novice estheticians and long-time skin enthusiasts.

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Transcript

[Tessa Zolli]

I want to talk to my Estes real quick. Today's episode is in partnership with Pomp Beauty. I am talking about this platform constantly because it has genuinely changed my business. You guys know I am 100 virtual. I don't have a treatment room, I don't have retail shelves. There's no client sitting in my chair physically. And for a long time that meant I was leaving a lot of money on the table when it came to retail. But believe it or not, when I first started my virtual practice, I would send clients links to buy products where I was literally not receiving any benefit or commission. Like I was referring out to big box stores. And soon enough I realized this is a big mistake. But I had nowhere to store the products. I didn't want to open accounts with 50 different professional lines and sending clients to five five different websites to buy their routine through your affiliate link. It is a tacky mess. And Pomp solve this. Right now. Pomp is my single biggest retail revenue stream. My clients are purchasing from me and loving the recommendations and supporting my small business every single day. If you want a stable future, you have to think about income outside of what your two hands can do in the treatment room. And this is where Pomp comes in. Pomp is a monthly subscription platform built for estheticians that gives you access to 50 plus professional skincare brands. My faves like Face Reality, Marini Skin Solutions, Hydrinity, Color Science, Glymed Revision and so many more. With zero inventory, zero accounts that you need to open and commissions up to 40%, you build each client a personalized routine. They shop from your storefront anytime they want, and Pomp handles the shipping and customer service. But here's what I want you to hear. This isn't just for virtual estheticians like me. Whether you have a solo treatment room, a suite, a med spa, it doesn't matter if there are products your clients could benefit from that you don't currently stock that they would otherwise Google and buy from a random website. POMP plugs directly into your business and captures that revenue for you. The most popular plan is just $49 a month and that includes every educational webinars and sales training. But that literally pays for itself. If one client were to purchase through you on pomp, use code TEST50 to get a 14 day free trial, 50% off your first month and a $75 product credit. The link to join is in the show notes. Just type the treatment room in when it asks how you heard about Pomp. And now let's get back to the show.

[Bri Holt]

So good, so good, so good.

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[Tessa Zolli]

Hello guys. Welcome back to the Treatment Room podcast with your host Tessa Zolli. So today we are diving into one of the most talked about treatments in corrective skincare microneedling. I am joined by Bri Holt from Juve Pen to discuss everything from collagen stimulation and treatment protocols to common mistakes estheticians should avoid, proper needle depth, client candidacy, and why device quality matters more than ever right now. If you are an esthetician looking to elevate your microneedling knowledge or just somebody who's thinking about micro needling and getting it done, this episode is for you. So Bri, welcome to the podcast and thanks for joining us.

[Bri Holt]

Thank you for having me. I'm so excited.

[Tessa Zolli]

Yay. So Bri and I recently met. I am partnering with Juve Pen. I'm so excited to tell you guys about this device because I have been blown away by it. I'm obsessed with it. So yes, we're excited to hear more about it. Bri, can you just tell us a little bit about your background? I know you are head of sales at Juve Penn as well as an esthetician. So yeah, tell us about your role and how you got into this whole world of skincare.

[Bri Holt]

Yeah, I kind of had a crazy, you know, I went from a bunch of different roles and I never thought this is where I would end up. But I love my job. But I always knew I was passionate skin care and growing up I thought I would go to med school and be a dermatologist. That was crazy of me to think not going to med school. Anyways, I interned at dermatology offices. I interned everywhere. You know, if it had to do with skincare and then my first job out of college was at Laser Away. Shout out. Laser Away. They were awesome. I learned a lot and I think working in medical esthetic sales there was where this all started for me. I always thought I wanted to work like in the or, and I quickly learned I actually really love being like hands on. So anyways, I essentially was the liaison between the patient and the provider at Laser Away. So I learned so much about like the anatomy of the skin. I sold laser facials like thermage clear and brilliant IPLs and then like hair removal obviously and skin care injectables, all the things. So I loved it there. I knew I wanted to be in the aesthetic world from there. And then I actually ended up taking a tech job randomly kind of during COVID and I knew I definitely needed to get out of that and get back into the aesthetic world. So I, after about two years working in tech, I went to esthetician school and quit my job and just did it. And I'm so happy that I did. Right out of school, I got a job with Whispermed, which is the company that I work for now. And that's where we have three different brands. So I'm the head of sales there for Joovpen, which is our microneedling. We have Carajuov, which is our hair restoration, and then Dermalux, which is our LED device that we sell. And I love it. It's kind of all like regenerative aesthetics, which I really appreciate because I kind of like live my life holistically. As I just told you that I got filler. So, you know. Anyways, we gotta pick and choose, right? We have to pick and choose. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, I absolutely love my job. I get the best of both worlds working and selling, but also being hands on as like the in house esthetician and kind of the head of education. So it's like the most perfect job for me personally.

[Tessa Zolli]

That's such a cool hybrid of like, you still get to be an esthetician and utilize that knowledge, but being head of sales too is pretty, pretty awesome.

[Bri Holt]

So fun.

[Tessa Zolli]

Do you have a favorite treatment that you like getting personally?

[Bri Holt]

I mean, besides microneedling? I. I would say micro needling is my favorite because I see the mo like the best results with it. I love micro needling with led. Those two, like that combo together I really, really love. So I would say microneedling. And I know we're touching on all of that today, but I've seen the best results with that.

[Tessa Zolli]

Personally, I love that perfect tie In So just super basic. What is microneedling, and what are the benefits from microneedling?

[Bri Holt]

Yeah, so microneedling is collagen induction therapy. So essentially, that means that it's. The device is creating micro injuries in the skin. So that stimulates the body's natural healing response. The pen. So the micro needling device has tiny sterile needles inside of it that create the micro channels. These increase collagen and elastin. And then with each micro injury, it triggers the body to repair and rebuild in that area that it got injured in. So what's really cool is actually what's happening under the skin. And this is what I feel like. A lot of patients don't even know when they go in and get microneedled. I think this is the cool part. I think of it as, like, a full reset for your skin when you get microneedling, microneedling done. So when the micro channels are created, your body essentially releases growth factors that stimulate the fibroblasts. So the fibroblasts are cells that. They are the cells that make collagen and elastin. The big picture is that we are creating collagen, and that's really what everyone wants, and that's what everyone loses over time. Collagen affects fine lines and wrinkles, acne, scars, texture, large pores, what else? Like hyperpigmentation, stretch marks. And then, yeah, we're kind of diving into, like, the hair stuff. So hair thinning, all of that. And that's what microneedling really treats. Another huge thing that microneedling does is it helps with product absorption.

[Tessa Zolli]

So.

[Bri Holt]

So you really want to, you know, know what you're putting as the biologic onto the skin with the product that basically opens the micro channels, stay open for that product absorption, and it allows penetration to be deeper and better in that area.

[Tessa Zolli]

And how long is that opportunity, you know, open? Is it, like, immediately right after microneedling or the weeks after the treatment, like, you're still getting more product absorption than you normally would?

[Bri Holt]

No, I would say, like, a few hours, probably after. It's during the treatment. It's when they are really, truly open. But it's not long until they. They close back up. You'll still want to, obviously afterwards be using ingredients that really help repair and hydrate the skin. But the real product absorption is during treatment.

[Tessa Zolli]

Okay. And then on that note, I know. Well, guys, Bri trained me, which was so awesome. She gave me, like, a full virtual training. But we were talking about the best treatments to use while micro needling, which I Feel like is so important because you do have that window. So what are your favorite types of treatments to use during microneedling?

[Bri Holt]

Like the biologics during treatment?

[Tessa Zolli]

Yes.

[Bri Holt]

Yeah. I mean, there's so many on the market right now. I would say growth factors, exosomes. A lot of people are doing prp, which is your blood. I would say those three are probably the best and the most, you know, important. I think what we use is anti ag growth factors and we love anti ag. They have three different ones. They have a regular growth factor, a brightening one, and then a hair growth factor. So that's what I recommend to all of my customers and patients and what I use in clinic.

[Tessa Zolli]

And then I want to hear your best practices for needling as far as, like, setup, performing the treatment. We talked a little bit about, like, products you're using, but can you walk us through how to perform microneedling?

[Bri Holt]

For sure, yeah. So honestly, it really starts before the treatment even begins. So proper patient selection is huge. We're not going to microneedle on everyone. Like, not everyone is a candidate. So we want to make sure we have consultations prior to. We want to know their skin types, their concerns, what they're using at home. And, you know, there are contraindications. People who have some type of inflammatory skin condition, like active flares of rosacea, eczema, psoriasis, anyone with any active acne, cystic acne, open wounds, anyone on Accutane. They are not candidates for microneedling at the moment. You would want to get reassessed. So that's first. And I think that's a huge part of this. Not everyone is going to be a candidate and a lot of providers need to understand that from there. So for setup, everything needs to be obviously extremely sterile, extremely clean, and that is a must. You need to properly disinfect the surfaces, gloves, the cartridges, all of it, and then skin prep. I would go from there. Super important. You really want to make sure to cleanse and degrease the skin. You know, prior to microneedling, you want to be working on a clean canvas. You don't want to microneedle dirt and grime into the skin. That's just going to cause issues.

[Tessa Zolli]

Okay, I have a question on that. Yeah, I've gone in for treatments. I've had some providers, like, don't tell you to wash your face before the treatment. And I always feel really weird about that. What are your thoughts?

[Bri Holt]

I would always. I mean, they should be washing your skin prior. So whether that's with an Out. Either they're going to use, you know, an alcohol wipe or they're going to fully cleanse the skin. And do, you know, oil based cleanser, then a. Some type of, you know, gel based cleanser after that? There's different. I would say 50% of people want to use alcohol wipes. Some people think they, you know, dry out the skin too much. And I agree with that. But I also do want it to be really sterile. So I normally do use alcohol wipes. But if at the very least we need it to be very clean, very clean skin.

[Tessa Zolli]

I'm always paranoid.

[Bri Holt]

Yeah, of course. I know we're. I don't want a micro needle. Just dirt and sweat and dead skin cells.

[Tessa Zolli]

Yeah.

[Bri Holt]

And.

[Tessa Zolli]

And what's the risk with that? Would it be like spreading infection?

[Bri Holt]

Yes, exactly. And just more inflammation could cause more acne, all of that.

[Tessa Zolli]

What about people who are saying they feel like they're breaking out more after the treatment? Have you seen that?

[Bri Holt]

Yes. Okay. So I have a patient that comes in and she purged for like the first three treatments and that's pretty normal purging. It is just like really specific to each patient and what they have going on. Purging is normal. I think there's more benefits after. So she continues to come back and sees just such great results with fine lines and wrinkles and pigmentation in her previous, you know, acne. Acne scars. So we're still doing it. And after the third treatment, we started to see that purging stop. Usually it stops, I would say anywhere like two to three treatments. So it shouldn't last long.

[Tessa Zolli]

Do you ever have acne clients stay on their actives right up until the treatment? Just because I know, like with my clients, if they take days off, they will break out. But.

[Bri Holt]

Yeah.

[Tessa Zolli]

What are your thoughts?

[Bri Holt]

We usually say, I think it's 48 to 72 hours. We'd like everyone off actives, which I know is unfortunate for those acne clients, but we're not. I'm not treating people with active acne. So if you have a pimple here and there, I work around it and there are some, you know, postules and pimples that I can work over and actually micro needle. But for the most part we're not microneedling act, you know, active acne. If people are, you know, really, if they're coming off of an active and having that many problems with it, they probably wouldn't be a huge candidate for micro. For microneedling for that, you know, reason.

[Tessa Zolli]

Yep.

[Bri Holt]

Okay.

[Tessa Zolli]

And I think that's really interesting what you said about there's some type of acne that you will micro needle over. Tell us more about that. Like, what are you. Which types would it be? Like closed comedones. Not a big deal. You can go over that. Yeah.

[Bri Holt]

So I've been trained that we can go over closed comodomes if it has, you know, if it's a whitehead, we're not touching. We're leaving that and we're not microneedling over that. So in my opinion, I actually really don't love microneedling over any acne. But I have, you know, there's certain trainers out there that believe differently. Everyone has their own way of, I think, doing microneedling. I don't actually love microneedling over any acne. I've done it on myself and I feel like it kind of just makes it more inflamed. I think the reason people do is that they want that growth factor in that area to help calm the inflammation around it. But I like to leave it.

[Tessa Zolli]

Yeah.

[Bri Holt]

To be honest. Yeah.

[Tessa Zolli]

I've seen the back and forth on social media. So I wanted to ask you as the expert and when it comes to Joovpen specifically, what would you say are the major differences between Joovpen and other pens on the market? Why should estheticians consider this device?

[Bri Holt]

Totally. Yeah. I think one of the biggest things that separates Joov Pen from other pens on the market is the overall treatment experience. And I would say that for the provider and the patient. So there's a lot of devices out there that may look really similar esthetically to Joov Pen, especially online. You can kind of get away with anything with AI these days, but internally, the quality is what really matters. And the consistency can be very different. So we want to make sure that the devices are lightweight. We. That's what we love about our Juvepin J1 specifically. We make sure that it's a very lightweight device so the provider can work for a very long period of time without their hands hurting. That is something that really does make a difference, honestly.

[Tessa Zolli]

Purple tunnel and just like totally that repetitive motion.

[Bri Holt]

Exactly. And when it's heavy, it's so hard, you know, it hurts. So consistency really does matter more than people think. The small differences like vibration, the needle quality, depth, accuracy. What else? Those complete completely change, like the overall comfort of the patient and the outcome that they're going to receive. So I'd say that's something that's huge. Needle quality is huge. You don't want needles that are bending and Moving while it's going in. That is something that can cause rips in the skin. We want it to be a clean poke. That is essential. And then I would say our low consumable costs are kind of our bread and butter. And it's why people do choose juve pen. I have providers that message me all the time and they're just like, thank you guys so much. Like, you have no idea how much it means to have low consumable costs, you know, especially in comparison to our other competitors on the market. They're needle cartridges are about 60 to $80, and that's kind of across the board. That's usually what it is. And if you're, you know, micro needling for anywhere between 200 to $300, that's so much. They're, you know, that's taking so much of your money. So our needle cartridges are $20, which we plan to keep. And it's really something special that we love about our pen and making sure that it's something that new providers, new estheticians have the ability to purchase.

[Tessa Zolli]

I feel like that's so important now just with everything going on economically, to have lower costs if you can and to even make treatments more affordable if you needed to. That's such a selling point. Or I'm even thinking of new estheticians, you know, who, who want to just make sure they can cover all their costs starting out.

[Bri Holt]

Exactly, exactly. And we do see so many new estheticians, and that's our goal. We want it to be accessible for new estheticians, new providers, anyone trying to be mindful of costs, which everyone is, of course, but also delivering medical grade results at the same time.

[Tessa Zolli]

Yeah, yeah. I feel like the pen is so sleek, quiet, just feels good in your hand. So.

[Bri Holt]

Love it.

[Tessa Zolli]

I love it. I mean, I've gotten treatments where it sounds like really crazy and it can kind of scare you.

[Bri Holt]

Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, that's another huge thing. It is quiet and like, in comparison. Like, I've used skin pen before and I love skin pen, but it's just a lot louder and I think it scares my patients sometimes. I have noticed the, the difference in, you know, just their overall calmness coming in. Like it's not like some loud, huge device. It's a lot calmer and they just have more peace during treatment, so.

[Tessa Zolli]

Totally. And there are two pens, so could you tell us about each?

[Bri Holt]

Yeah. So we have our Joov Pen J1, which is. I love this pen. I think it's my favorite. It's super customizable. Has seven different speed. Seven. Seven different speed settings and a needle cartridge that is adjustable so it can go from 0 millimeters up to 2 millimeters. And then. Very lightweight. I have it right here. Lightweight. What else? Very quiet. It's kind of like our starter pen that a lot of new estheticians or new providers love. Very affordable. That one goes for about $2,000. And then we have our Juve Pen MD, which is our FDA cleared for acne scarring device. And it's amazing. It's a little bit bigger than this, the one that I have, the Jupenj one. And that's just because it needs to meet regulatory, you know, laws and rules. But that one is a normal speed setting. It has. What am I trying to say? Oh, a consistent speed setting. So it has consistent speed. It's about 7,000 RPMs. The J1 goes up to about 6,000 RPM so that the speed setting is not adjustable on the md. And that is for regulatory, you know, things as well. What else? I. I think if I had to choose between the two, I love the J one just because it's lightweight. It's our baby. It's our. It's our first one. If you are need and you, you know, your med medical spa or you know that you want a medical clear device, our JuvpenMD is the best. Basically all medically cleared microneedling devices are pretty similar on the market because they have to be. So. Yeah.

[Tessa Zolli]

And you need what? To purchase a juve pen, you need a esthetician license. Correct.

[Bri Holt]

You need some type of license. So it is a professional device. You need either, you know, you either need to be a nurse, a pa, you can be a doctor, but at least, at the very, very least, you need to be an esthetician. And, and there's, you know, there's injectors that do microneedling as well. But at the very least.

[Tessa Zolli]

Okay. And you would need to be an MD to purchase the second one.

[Bri Holt]

No, you don't. You do not need a medical provider to purchase it. Yeah, anyone can purchase that if you have a license.

[Tessa Zolli]

Okay, cool.

[Bri Holt]

Which is awesome.

[Tessa Zolli]

Yes, so awesome. And you touched on needle depth and speed. I wanted to talk a little bit about when and where on the face you would adjust these settings and which ones you recommend.

[Bri Holt]

Yes, I get this question so much. Determining the needle depth really does come down to three things. And that's the area being treated, the patient's skin thickness and like durability or sensitivity. And then the actual concern that you are Trying to target, which is probably, you know, acne, scarring or fine lines and wrinkles, whatever it may be. I just had someone ask me the other day, like, how do you know when it's a good, a good depth? I like to test it out in the area and see how they react. If there's minimal pinpoint bleeding, if it's getting, like, I ask myself, is it getting red? Is nothing happening? Are you noticing a ton of redness and a ton of bleeding? That's when you know you want to take it down a notch. So I do like to test it out, and I usually test it out on the forehead because it is, you know, thinner skin up there. So I'll test it, put my pen down, see how they're reacting for a second, especially 100% if they're a new patient of mine. And then from there I can kind of gauge just based off of, like, my experience, but for the most part, I'm sitting around like 0.5 millimeters for mostly everyone. Very rarely do I go past 1 millimeter. And that's for people who have been microneedling for a long time. When. Or have extremely durable, you know, vibrant skin, they're probably younger. They're probably between the ages of like 25 to 35. If, you know, if someone's coming in 60 years old, probably more mature skin, thinner skin, I'm probably going to go down a little bit for them because of that. We. I don't like having my patients leave. And I know I told you this and we were training, but I don't like having my patients leave the clinic looking like they got ran over by a bus. I want pinpoint bleeding, but not insane amount that. I don't believe in that. And I think you can get just as much out of the, you know, the treatment with a small amount of pinpoint bleeding. So I really do like to answer your question. I like to test it out prior on the forehead, usually, and then around the eyes and the forehead and the neck. Those are like the more sensitive areas. So I usually adjust the needle depth to go back down to probably around 0, 25, sometimes lower it. I. I like to see how they react. I'm not just like going crazy, but yeah, that's. That's kind of how I work. It

[Tessa Zolli]

totally makes sense. So, okay, can I give you a few examples of like, skin and you would tell me what you would do with the settings? Yeah, this is impromptu. I didn't prepare.

[Bri Holt]

Okay.

[Tessa Zolli]

Say, you know, somebody 25 with no acne, but severe Pitted acne scars.

[Bri Holt]

So first I would test out their forehead. I, um, they probably have some, you know, thicker skin on there. It's probably, I would assume, you know, around their chin and cheek area that they would have that pitted acne scarring. So I'd test on the forehead and then maybe around the area that we are going to treat and just see. Does 0.5 work? A lot of people like to start at 0.25. I was trained to always start your first patient at 0.25. I'm finding a lot of people can tolerate. And it, you know, if I'm not seeing any pinpoint bleeding at all, I go up. So I would. I would probably stick around 0.25, the speed setting. And, you know, not all pens have different speed settings, but ours does. So I usually stick around 5, which would probably be around like 4 to 5,000 RPMs. Um, it goes up to about 7,000 RPMs, so I'd probably do 0.5 millimeters at level 5 speed setting for that patient.

[Tessa Zolli]

Perfect. How about somebody with mild rosacea who has done microneedling before and just has, like, general aging concerns, AKA this is me.

[Bri Holt]

Yeah, me too. Gosh, I. I'm like, debating talking about rosacea because there's so many.

[Tessa Zolli]

Please do.

[Bri Holt]

I was trained to not work around. I was trained not to micro needle over rosacea at all. And so I do, and I do it all myself. I was trained to not touch rosacea in any way, shape or form. I will microneedle myself and go over my rosacea, but I will go down in needle depth. So for you, if you have rosacea, I have it, you know, right here. I will go to 0.25. And I don't even try to make myself. I don't try to get pinpoint bleeding in that area. I keep it very minimal and maybe just like a few passes, I'm not going crazy around my rosacea areas. And yeah, okay, that was a hard one because there's, like, it's kind of controversial, I could see. But that's how I would do it. Yeah, like, that's how I would do it.

[Tessa Zolli]

I could see the argument you don't want to aggravate it. But then I could also see it being kind of healing. Right?

[Bri Holt]

Yeah. And that's my belief. But if you look at clinical studies and they say that it doesn't.

[Tessa Zolli]

So.

[Bri Holt]

Okay. I'm kind of testing it out on myself, like, currently and seeing what I like. I've been seeing good results with my rosacea and keeping it very minimal. Like either right below 0.25 or at 0:25 around my areas with rosacea. And then everywhere else, I'll go like 05 to 075, maybe up to 1 because I've done it so many times.

[Tessa Zolli]

Yeah. I feel like I've seen a benefit in my overall redness from micro needling.

[Bri Holt]

You have. Okay, good.

[Tessa Zolli]

Yeah.

[Bri Holt]

Yay. Well, you'll have to let me know what you feel about the rosacea too, because I know there's so many different. There's just everyone has a very different opinion on rosacea when it comes to microneedling.

[Tessa Zolli]

Totally. And that's such a good point that there's different types of rosacea. I think we're even, like, learning more and more about the years ago.

[Bri Holt]

Yeah. Yes.

[Tessa Zolli]

Like, immune connections. There's different types. Like, I don't have the papules, but I have very severe neurogenic rosacea. That's more of just like the vascularity.

[Bri Holt]

Me too. Yeah, totally.

[Tessa Zolli]

I'll give you one more. How about somebody who is 75, thinner skin and wants to focus on age management?

[Bri Holt]

Totally. Yes. I was just talking to my mom about this. She's like, I want you to micro needle my skin. Anyway, my mom's not 75. Sorry, Mom. Anyways, she. I think you will go down. Their skin's more mature, it's thinner, it's not as durable. You will also really want to make sure you're pulling the skin like you don't want it to be catching on, you know, the fine lines and wrinkles. So with someone who does have deeper fine lines, you will want to pull the skin so it's flat. You have a flat surface to work on. And usually I would say probably somewhere between 0.5 or. Sorry, from 0.25 to 0.5. I haven't gone above 0.5 with anyone with pretty severe, you know, fine lines and wrinkles. Or they could be 75 and just, you know, just have thinner, more mature skin. And that's totally normal. But this will actually help, you know, obviously create more collagen and elastin in that area that. So it's not so thin. And that's what I see. So when they're starting out, I'm probably at 0.25, but by the end of it, I could be up to 0.75 maybe, which is awesome.

[Tessa Zolli]

Okay. That is. Yes. And what is the purpose of increasing the speed?

[Bri Holt]

So if you just think about. If we just put it right on the skin right here. This is where I know no one can see me, but when the needle is hitting the skin, it's how many times the needle is hitting in that area. So it just creates more micro injuries. Essentially. If it's all the way down and you're going across your face, it just slowers. But if it's at a 7,000 RPMs, which is our highest, it's just creating more micro, micro injuries so you don't have to pass so many times.

[Tessa Zolli]

Okay, so you said you would lower the needle depth, right. For the eyes and the neck. Would you lower the speed too?

[Bri Holt]

100%. Yeah. I'm already, I'm down to like a one probably. If it's anywhere around the eyes, the neck, I could maybe go up. Um, I have a really sensitive neck. Most people have really sensitive necks. So I kind of stay pretty low around the neck.

[Tessa Zolli]

For sure.

[Bri Holt]

Yeah.

[Tessa Zolli]

Are there areas of the face that you should not needle like could somebody do the lips if they were trying to treat like smokers lines or how

[Bri Holt]

close people do it? I don't personally and I think you can be trained to. I just have never done the lips. I know you don't want to be too far up in the eyes. So you can go to about like maybe like a finger, a fingernail up to the eye. You don't want to get all the way up there like where your eyelashes are. That's off limits above the eye. I have been trained that you can do right by the eyebrow anywhere lower off limits and then right on the tip of the nose. It's just really like there's barely any skin there. So you just want to be really, really careful. You can, but you just want to be like so careful. Like one quick little swipe.

[Tessa Zolli]

Okay. Yeah. Because a lot of people want to treat more visible pores on the nose and like fine lines by the eyes. So you think you can, you can touch those areas, but just have to be careful.

[Bri Holt]

Quick and be careful. Yeah. Definitely want to make sure you have enough biologic and like, you know, enough growth factors in that area. If we're using growth factors to really make sure it's gliding properly, we don't want like, we just want to be very careful on the nose because it's so, so thin.

[Tessa Zolli]

Yes, and that's a good point. You want good slip right throughout the treatment Always.

[Bri Holt]

Yes, yes. Lots of it. I like to do more than you think because your skin is just soaking it up and eating it up.

[Tessa Zolli]

I feel like I could go through half a bottle of growth factor serum.

[Bri Holt]

I wish I Could, Yeah.

[Tessa Zolli]

Are there any mistakes that you are seeing that estheticians should avoid while performing microneedling?

[Bri Holt]

For sure. Over treating the skin. So just, you know, too many passes, too much needle depth. We want to be really careful there. So that can just cause major issues. Kind of like what we were saying before, just more inflammation, infections. We just want to be careful and there's no need to go and over treat the, the, the more you do it, the, you know, if you do it before four weeks, that's not okay. You want to stay at least every four to six weeks. That's like at the minimum. And then I'd say probably using the same settings on every patient like I told you, like if it's a 60 year old with mature skin wanting to treat fine lines and wrinkles, we're treating that differently than a 25 year old coming in for acne scarring. So that's a huge one. We want, we don't want the same settings for everyone. Being mindful of the biologics that we're putting on the skin. And I know we touched on that as well. I think it's huge microneedling, you know, creates the temporary micro channels in the skin. So we have to be really mindful of what we're applying during the treatment.

[Tessa Zolli]

Question there, Bri. So that's a really good point. You can't just use anything to microneedle. Right. So you know, hyaluronic acid, like can you talk a little bit about like what would be off limits?

[Bri Holt]

Yes, any actives. So retinoids chemical, like any actives are off limits?

[Tessa Zolli]

Are people doing that?

[Bri Holt]

I. I don't know. I don't know. I know there's some people who like we have a vitamin C growth factor. I think it's needs to be probably a not super high dose of vitamin C. I think that can make people either break out or just more inflamed. So just being mindful there and if it's you know, like anti OD has a great one and they. I love it and have never had an issue with it. Yeah, just no actives and nothing with fragrances.

[Tessa Zolli]

I wanted to ask you a little bit about like proper technique. Is there any motion that you are doing specifically while microneedling? Like is vertical lines correct but like circular wouldn't be.

[Bri Holt]

Yes, everyone has like their way of doing it and I don't think that there's a right or wrong way as long as you're hitting all the spots properly. But I kind of work around the whole face so let's say I start with the forehead. I kind of do hashtags and then little circular motions. Then I move on in the area and hashtag, circular motion, move on. And that's pretty much what I do throughout the whole face, obviously, like on the nose, we're just kind of working around the tip and that you can't really do a hashtag in that area. But for the most part, that's usually it. If we're working around the eyes, I'm literally just doing like one swipe around the eyes. But for the bigger areas, like the face, neck, and chest in general, I do hashtags both ways. Circular, move on.

[Tessa Zolli]

Perfect. What should somebody be seeing the next day after the treatment? And what shouldn't they be saying? Like, is bruising bad? A little redness is good.

[Bri Holt]

A little redness is fine. We. I get inflamed. I look like a little swollen. Almost like I ate sushi and drank the night before, kind of. But yeah, you'll have some redness. Some, you know, we. You don't want to touch it afterwards. So I recommend if you're going to take a shower, just like, quick rinse, you're not putting anything on it except for some hydrating serum. And, you know, everyone has their own hydrating serums that they use post treatment. And so after the following day, I would say should be minimal redness. It shouldn't be completely complete red and some inflammation, and that's it. I see a lot of people the next day looking like they still, you know, just got into a fist fight with a tiger. And I just don't. I think it's unnecessary.

[Tessa Zolli]

Totally agree. And you said say somebody got their treatment done in the morning, they can wash their face that night. That's okay.

[Bri Holt]

We're not washing it. So you're not going to use a cleanser or anything. But if you are in the shower and obviously you could have some water on your face, I would love it to be like cold or lukewarm water. I don't really want hot water. And honestly, it wouldn't feel good. It doesn't feel good to have hot water on right after microneedling anyways. So, yeah, they can rinse it with water.

[Tessa Zolli]

Okay.

[Bri Holt]

Yes.

[Tessa Zolli]

And would clients need to be extra cautious with sun protection post treatment?

[Bri Holt]

100%. Yeah. We don't want to be in saunas, steam rooms, going to a Pilates workout. You really don't want to be working. Working out for at least 48 hours after light walks or whatever is fine. But we don't want sweat and we do not want sun exposure at all. So I don't put sunscreen on immediately after my patients. After microneedling, I am like, you need, you wear a hat. You have the hat on in the car, you have the hat on around the house. And then the following day, the same thing. You could put on some sunscreen the following day. That's okay. But immediately after, I don't apply sunscreen. So we just want to be really careful and protect the skin fully from the skin from the sun for sure.

[Tessa Zolli]

And you could do like a tinted sunscreen the day after, but no makeup,

[Bri Holt]

preferably some type of mineral sunscreen.

[Tessa Zolli]

Yep.

[Bri Holt]

I, you can do makeup the next day. I like to give, I like to let, I tell my patients, let the skin breathe for about 48 hours if possible. But I know, you know, people work and that's the good thing about microneedling. And what's awesome is it is minimal downtime and done the right way, it should be minimal downtime. So they should be able to go back to work. Like, I'm microneedling my friend in a few weeks and she's like, can I go to work the next day? Of course it's. But I, I would prefer if you didn't, you know, wear your makeup. So that's fine then. Yeah, yeah.

[Tessa Zolli]

It's not surgery, but you'll look a little like. So sunburn probably.

[Bri Holt]

Exactly, exactly.

[Tessa Zolli]

And speaking of, I do love that this is a year round treatment. Right. As opposed to some chemical peels. Wouldn't be recommended in the summer, but so awesome that clients can keep up this treatment throughout the year.

[Bri Holt]

Yeah, 100%. And that's, that's the beauty of it is, you know, you can have it over time and have maintenance. You know, I have, we had so many people come in and now we're just kind of on maintenance and we kind of do it every like three months and it's perfect.

[Tessa Zolli]

Yeah. So. Okay, last question for you, Bri, is I've heard of cases of like non professionals just purchasing a device online. Like somebody might listen to this episode and just think, oh, micro needling is good, but I can just go search up a micro needling device on the Internet, order that do it all myself. What are the risks involved here and why wouldn't you recommend anything like that? And what's the benefit of like a professional pen like this?

[Bri Holt]

Yes. I love this question. I'm so passionate about this question because I see so many people ruin their skin barrier with it. So when purchasing Kind of random devices online. First off, they're. They're not probably going to be getting the. To the depth, and they should. I hope there's not needles out there and, you know, cartridges out there that are getting to the needle depth that real professional microneedling is. But I just have seen so many people ruin their skin barrier when purchasing a random device. So people don't understand that this is still a professional, professional procedure. We're creating injuries in the skin. When performed incorrectly, it can lead to infection, scarring, major inflammation, post inflammatory hyperpigmentation, major damage to the skin barrier. So I like, for example, I. A lot of people, you know, like we were talking about rosacea earlier. A lot of people have rosacea and it's just undiagnosed. So if they have no idea they have it and of course, I understand, but if they have no idea they have it and they microneedle themselves, they could absolutely make that so much worse than it already is. Non professionals, they don't know the needle depth to use. They don't know the speed settings to use. They don't know skin anatomy proper, how to keep it sterile. You know, you could have major infections. So we just really want, you know, professionals working on us. And I think I'll leave it there. But that's. You definitely want to go in and get it done by a professional is what I'll. I'll say.

[Tessa Zolli]

Totally. And I love that this is only for professionals. That was one of the first questions I asked you guys. I wanted to make sure, like, this is a professional device. I love that exclusivity, guys. I think this was such a good episode. I learned so much. I will have a code and a link for any estheticians who are interested in purchasing juve pen after the show or medical professionals like Bri mentioned. I'm obsessed with this device. I've done it twice. I can't wait to do the next time. It's like I have to wait for it to be at least six weeks, but I would be doing this weekly if I could. I love it so much.

[Bri Holt]

I know.

[Tessa Zolli]

Thank you.

[Bri Holt]

Well, thank you so much for having me. It was so fun.

[Tessa Zolli]

You did amazing. Was this your first podcast?

[Bri Holt]

This is my first.

[Tessa Zolli]

You.

[Bri Holt]

But honestly was easy. It's like it's exactly what we had talked about, you know, prior. It's just what I talk to everyone. It's the same spiel, you know, they give every patient or every provider.

[Tessa Zolli]

So you know your stuff.

[Bri Holt]

So that means you're such a good host.

[Tessa Zolli]

Oh, Good. Do you have a social media you'd want to share where people can follow you?

[Bri Holt]

No, like I'm on social media, but I'm not really like posting anything sd. Yeah. So they could follow Juve Pen though. So if they want to follow Juve Pen, let me just make sure it's actually Jupen J1 I need to follow. Yes. So if you want to follow, it's our handle is Juve Pen J1 on Instagram. And then we're also on Tick Tock. We're really excited about that. But yeah.

[Tessa Zolli]

Is there an in person headquarters?

[Bri Holt]

Yes, we are actually opening a med spa. It's called Temple by Talia and we'd love to have you in and we absolutely will. We're opening that in the next like month or two. It's new and we'll be doing exclusively micro needling out of there. So it'll just be basically micro needling packages, which is like our dream.

[Tessa Zolli]

That's so awesome. And I feel like that alleviates, you know, the questions of where to go. That really specializes.

[Bri Holt]

Exactly. I love that. Exactly. I know we kind of wanted it to be like, is it Skin laundry? I think that's like all lasers. I forget which one. There's so many skin spirits, skin whatever. But I think Skin laundry is all lasers. We're like, we want this to just be microneedling, which is niche. Yeah.

[Tessa Zolli]

Love it.

[Bri Holt]

Excited.

[Tessa Zolli]

Thank you so much. I love this episode.

[Bri Holt]

Thank you. I'm so excited. It'll be so good.

[Tessa Zolli]

All right, guys, I will talk to you in the next next episode.