← The TreppWire Podcast: A Commercial Real Estate Show
The TreppWire Podcast: A Commercial Real Estate Show
372. Carmen Spinoso on Leasing, Experiential Retail, & Why Enclosed Malls Still Matter | Spinoso Real Estate Group
00:39:48
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- [00:06]
A
Welcome to the trepwire Podcast, the show where commercial real estate meets data and insights. This is a special guest podcast. I'm Hayley Keane with trep, a data modeling and analytics firm for the CMBS commercial real estate and CLO markets. I'm with Lonnie Hendry, Chief Product Officer. Today we're joined by Carmen Spinoso, Chairman and CEO of Spinoso Real Estate Group, a leading privately held operator specializing in enclosed shopping malls and large scale retail based mixed use properties. With more than 35 years of industry experience, Carmen is known for his strategic vision and deep expertise in repositioning and maximizing the value of complex retail assets. Carmen founded Spinoso Real estate group in 2009 to create a specialized platform focused on the unique challenges of enclosed mall operations. Since then, the firm has managed over 100 shopping centers totaling more than 90 million square feet and delivering results through operational excellence, strategic leasing and innovative redevelopment. With a career rooted in leasing, Carmen has transformed underperforming malls into high performing assets, executing major redevelopment projects incorporating experiential retail, entertainment, dining and mixed use components. His tailored business plans and ability to align assets with the evolving needs of retailers and communities have driven significant value creation. Today, Spinoso is one of the country's largest privately held mall operators, overseeing millions of square feet, executing anchor repositioning, launching new experiential concepts and driving notable mall turnarounds across the U.S. carmen, we are so excited to have you back in front of our TREP audience. Welcome to the show.
- [01:57]
B
Thank you, thank you. It's great to be back and I'm.
- [02:01]
A
Also excited and that is an extensive background but we do want to hear it from you and maybe for listeners who may be new to you, your firm and Spinoza Real Estate Group. Can you give us a quick overview of who you are, your role in the industry and what your company does for the commercial real estate market?
- [02:21]
B
Certainly. So my role in the, in the organization, I'm the CEO and founder and kind of lead strategic direction and vision as well as, you know, working with our team on growing the business. But really a little bit of my background super quick is I, I started as a leasing person pretty much right out of college and it wasn't a plan. I actually thought I was going to be a musician and then decided, you know, I should probably have something as a backup. So I ended up, you know, going to college, getting my undergraduate degree in accounting. And when I got out, the only thing I really knew was that I didn't want to be an accountant. So started looking in the job market, and this is in the mid-80s, and ultimately found a position as a leasing representative at one of the country's mall development companies. And I absolutely fell in love with it and, you know, began to learn how leasing is one of the absolute key value drivers for real estate. Because if you can put together the collection of things that people want, the retail offerings, the dining and, you know, entertainment venues, and all the different services, if you can put all that together, then people will drive farther to get there, they'll stay longer when they're there, and they'll spend more. And the real estate equation works. Conversely, if you don't have the right offerings, people will drive right by a property to go somewhere where they can find what they want. So it became very apparent to me really early on that leasing was, you know, a really important skill to learn. And I really fell in love with it and, you know, developed those skills. And it's interesting because as I've watched our industry expand and evolve over decades, it is still absolutely true today that leasing is one of the key value drivers. So as I watched the industry evolve, a couple things happened. One of the big things was that, you know, there was probably over 100 mall developers that built approximately 1500 malls throughout the country. And during the 90s, starting in the 1990, 91, there was tremendous pressure on the US economy. And the savings and loan crisis really put tremendous pressure on the capital markets. And these developers, these hundred or so companies that built these malls struggled to access capital. And that's when you saw the REITs get formed, because the only real source of capital at the time was the public markets. So I watched our industry transform from, you know, a large number of privately held entrepreneurial real estate companies to a handful of very large REITs that consolidated the industry and went from private to public. And as I watched all that happen, it became obvious to me over time that there would be a time when there would be a need for somebody to be able to transform these assets further. And that was really the genesis of, you know, developing a business plan to start Spinoso Real Estate Group. But what we do is we are a total turnkey operating platform for enclosed shopping malls and large retail based mixed use projects. So what that means is we provide leasing services, property management, you know, and all of the suite of services necessary to stabilize and maximize value and transform these mall assets. There's a lot of different pieces of that lease administration, accounting, you know, finance, redevelopment, construction, management, tenant coordination, all of the services that it takes to do that. We Provide in one turnkey, in house platform.
- [06:22]
C
It's incredible just to hear you kind of walk through all of those things. And I love the leasing angle. And I know when you were on the show last time we talked a little bit about that. But I think for our business, we're a software, as a service business, you learn more from your prospects sometimes than you do your customers because they're actually shopping all of your competitors at the same time. So I think equate that to the CRE landscape. When you're leasing property, you're talking to people that are starting businesses that are looking for space, that are on the cutting edge of what's happening in the market from a consumer perspective. And I think that probably gives you some really great insights into how your properties need to adapt to market needs and market demand. And so it's amazing to see how you've taken the leasing background and turned it into this really incredible, you know, the largestly private held mall operator in the country. And I just to quantify that for our listeners and you can, you can correct me, Carmen, I think this means you operate, manage, lease more than 100 malls as a third party provider, then you own several malls outside of that with institutional partners.
- [07:20]
B
Yeah, that, that's our total platform, has worked on more than 100 malls. Our current portfolio, because some of those, you know, come in and go out either as we're, we're operating them as a service provider or properties that we own that we in in turn divest. So our current portfolio is about 50 malls, which is about 44 million square feet from coast to coast. And it's ever changing. We just recently closed on the acquisition of two new malls. Within the last, like call it 35, 40 days, we purchased a mall in Dayton, Ohio and one in Johnson City, Tennessee. You know, we're continuing to grow both our third party service business as well as our own own portfolio. But Lonnie, I'd really love to touch on something that you just said because it really is, you know, at the core what got me so excited about this industry, in this business. And I find it today to be such an incredible, you know, career opportunity for people and that that's this. Like when I started leasing, I'll never forget. I knew nothing about, you know, shopping centers or retailers or whatnot, but I had a passion to want to be a business person and I did exactly what you said. I had to go out and cold call businesses to see if I could recruit them to sign a lease and be a tenant at a mall that we were building. And I got to meet with restaurant owners and shoe store operators and, you know, entertainment providers and all these different businesses. And I have to tell you a couple things to touch on that and expand on what you were saying is I. I'll never forget the first time I made a deal. And actually, interestingly enough, because they're not in malls very much anymore, it was a pet store. So I met this gentleman working on developing a mall in Massachusetts, and this gentleman owned a chain of pet stores. And I cold called him and like, maybe he'll open a pet store in our mall. And I got to know him, learn about his business. He's a great guy. We became good friends, and we ended up doing a deal, signed a lease, and he ended up building the store and opening it. And I'll never forget the feeling walking through the mall, seeing the first deal that I ever did now in physical presence and people working there and shopping there. And. And this was repeated time and time again as I did deals. And it became so incredibly rewarding. And it wasn't lost on me that the experience of building these relationships taught me so much about so many different businesses, gave me so many different perspectives, and had such a profound impact on so many people. I mean, when these stores open, they're paying rent. That helps the developer that owns the real estate. They're hopefully profitable, which drives their. They employ people and create jobs and pay sales tax revenue. And it became this incredible feeling that these efforts to do my job as a leasing person helped me grow personally, but also positively impacted so many people. And I'm glad you touched on that, because oftentimes that part of the story gets lost. But that's really, really exciting. And I can tell you that to this day, many of the people that I've done business with are friends that become really good friends and their friends decades later because of this kind of like a mutual respect and, you know, an admiration for, you know, doing good work together. But that's a really key thing. It's what got me super excited about this and how I fell in love with it.
- [10:50]
C
Yeah, it's. It's amazing because for the people that are signing those leases, that's their livelihood in a lot of cases, like, that's. That's how they make a living. And so you're providing an opportunity, as you just described, which is really, really great. So I want to transition here a little bit now that you've helped us quantify kind of the size of the portfolio and kind of, you know, where you guys sit. Just give us some update on where. What is the state of your portfolio today? Where, where are you sitting? How do you feel? You said you made a couple of recent acquisitions. Just give us, give us an overview of kind of where you think you guys sit today. You know, maybe relative to last time you're on the show or the last couple of years. Just whatever, whatever context you want to provide there.
- [11:26]
B
Sure, certainly. Right. We've grown a really significant amount since the last time we were on the show. And some of those new projects that we've taken out have been really exciting and kind of transformational and challenging and goes right back to what we were just talking about, like, really inspirational and stretches us and, you know, inspires us to try to be innovative. And one of them, for example, and this is a little different than our typical, you know, acquisition or management assignment was we were asked to compete in an RFP for the management of Grand Central Terminal in New York City. And when that happened, our chief operating officer, Don Klavin, came to me, said, hey, we've got this inquiry. Do you think we should. Should go after this? And I'm thinking, like, here we are, mall company based in Syracuse, New York. And the other respondents on this assignment, like, JLL was the prior manager for like 26 years, and you did all the other big firms in New York City. And I'm like, you know, Don, I don't know that we have a shot, but if nothing else, we'll learn some through this process. And nothing ventured, nothing gained. And that, that process was, you know, lengthy. It was probably close to a year. And, you know, it was a pretty significant effort, as you can imagine. The RFP was very thorough and very comprehensive, and we put a lot of time and energy into it. And ultimately we were awarded the, the contract to be the manager of Grand Central Terminal. And this is, I'll never forget. You know, I grew up in Syracuse, which is pretty far upstate, and as a kid, I dreamt of New York City. And the first time I went to New York City was a train into Grand Central. And I remember walking into the terminal area and just being like, wow, you know, mind blowing experience. And now we manage it and we're working with the MTA and our team there to come up with some incredibly innovative and robust programming of events and reasons for people to visit the terminal beyond just the transportation component. And it's super exciting. So that's a really cool one. We also took on a project recently that is another very exciting one. It's called Ovation Hollywood, which is formerly known as Hollywood and Highland. It's where they do the Hollywood Walk of Fame, you know, all the stars. And they have the Academy Awards ceremony there at the property. And, you know, we've got a lot of really interesting things working on that project as well. So, you know, we've continued to grow, we continue to acquire. We're big believers in this product type in brick and mortar. And, you know, we've been that way when it was a lot more contrarian than it seems now because people are starting to come around, say, hey, you know what? Brick and mortar isn't going away. Like, you know, I think you're right. Like, we should probably be focused on this too. The last couple years have been not only growth but the ability to, you know, really attract some top talent in our industry. So I feel very bullish going into 26. And I really think, Lonnie, that 26 is going to be an incredible year. And I think it's going to be a real breakout year for this product type and for our company in particular.
- [14:40]
C
Yeah, I love the story on the the Grand Central Terminal. I mean, that is, if you're an up and coming commercial real estate practitioner, that should get you motivated. I mean, just the way you talked about starting your firm and then now you ride a train in. You see, as we all do when you get off a train in Grand Central, I don't care if you live there and you've been in there a hundred times. It's incredible. And now you guys manage. It's pretty inspiring story. So hopefully people that hear that, it gives them some motivation to keep pushing in whatever endeavor they're pushing. So I think it's a good transition. Obviously, your bread and butter is the enclosed mall space. Give me just some perspective on why malls are still valuable as an investment class. I know you know, there's been a lot of headlines over the last 10 years or so talking about the demise of the mall space, et cetera, et cetera. I still think they're a vital part of the ecosystem. But I'd love to hear from someone that is in your position why it's still such a valuable investment class.
- [15:33]
B
Good question. I will tell you that I've been hearing the demise of the mall since I started my career. So back then in the 90s, it was when big boxes were first coming out and they're like, big boxes are going to destroy the mall. It's the mall ternative. I'll never forget that phrase. And I'm like oh my gosh, did I start a career that's going, you know, in the wrong direction? And then it was, you know, power centers, we're going to destroy the mall, then lifestyle centers, then the Internet. And I agree with you, life malls are and can continue to be a major component to the ecosystem of a community and you know, regional commerce. And I think, you know, the, the facts have borne that out. So if you go back pre e commerce, so 70s and 80s, about 75 to 80% of all sales were being done in stores and the balance was being done in other channels. It's always been an omni channel market, right? So back then those other channels were in large part catalog sales, phone sales, door to door sales and other channels. In fact it's interesting because a lot of retailers that became prominent started as an other channel. So Sears for example, started as a catalog company, ultimately turned into a brick and mortar physical retailer. Same is true of many retailers, Bass Pro Shops, a number of them. But ultimately what they found back in, you know, this is back when they started was that in order to really connect with their customer and you know, maximize their business, they needed a physical presence. So malls became the, I think the best expression of that kind of physical presence. And that today, if you look at the most current data, 75 to 80% of all sales that are being done today are being done in brick and mortar physical presence. And the balance is being done in other channels. And the biggest other channel is E commerce. So E Commerce has really replaced catalog sales and other channels. Not really had that much of an impact on brick and mortar. So when you think like hey, a mall could still be a vital part of the ecosystem, I totally agree because the numbers show that. And in fact it's interesting. You know, my kids, I've got four and they are all Gen Z and when they were very young and I'm in the mall business, I'm talking when they're very young, 6, 7, 8, 9, they all have their devices, right? And I'm like, I couldn't help but listen to the narrative of look, these kids are growing up in their phones. Everything's going to be digital. They're not going to buy in brick and mortar. And you can look at them and watch their behavior and say, wow, that makes sense. By the time they grow up, that's going to be the familiar method and that's going to be the preferred method for them to, you know, shop and consume things. It'll be digital. But if you look today and it's very interesting. My kids are all Gen Z. They go to the stores, they go to the malls and Gen Z has been a huge driver of traffic to malls. You know, post Covid. So we believe in him. We're very bullish on it and that's why we continue to invest. And the other thing that I think is very notable is, you know, investors, whether they're private investors, institutional investors that invest in real estate obviously want yield and they want security. Right. Yield is important. You know, there's a risk reward balance that everybody has to strike and. But one thing that I can say is that retail real estate, brick and mortar, whether it's enclosed malls or other formats, gives an opportunity to actually achieve yield when so many other asset classes are trading at such tight cap rates. I mean, there was a massive focus on multifamily and residential for a long time and then, you know, rents started to decline and interest rates, you know, driving up a little bit and you saw less demand and you know, very tight. When you're buying something at a 4 or 5 cap to be able to make any, you know, any yield in enclosed malls, the investment can provide a real cash on cash yield that is very significant and has been proven durable because these properties have by and large maintained their noi and their occupancy and their sales performance and foot traffic through Covid. So I think it's a great investment and people are really focusing in on that because the alternative is very tight yield and you know, low return. And the risk is that if there's a change in the economy, you don't have a lot of margin of error. So I think for all those reasons we see it as a great investment.
- [20:24]
C
Yeah, I think in our data business we're tracking the mall space and it's pretty remarkable. A lot of these centers lose some of their momentum when they don't lease like they're supposed to. Right. Some of the core tenants of your business, but if you look at the NOI or the, the growth on the, the revenue side, they're still really strong. It just seems like sometimes they get over levered and they're, they're mismanaged and that's where you guys come in and really do an uplift and re tenant the buildings. I wanted to hit on a couple of other things there that you made me think of. You know, we've, we've heard of the concept of experiential retail. Have you guys worked with any, you know, tenants where they're trying out some of these new experiential footprints or floor plans or things like that that by definition drive a different type of interaction with the consumer.
- [21:11]
B
Yes, we do. And we continue to source different uses and prospective tenants. One that, that I have a tremendously high regard for is Dick's Sporting Goods and their new House of Sports concept, which, you know, I went to one of the first ones and one of the, I think it might be the absolute first one or first or second opened in Rochester, New York, about an hour from me, and I went and visited it. And they have really demonstrated the skill and ability to create something that is far more experiential than the typical, you know, retail offering. And I think they've done an incredible job. I think they're, you know, thought leaders on how to do it. And I think they're, you know, demonstrating and giving a lot of examples to other retailers on what it means to truly connect with the consumer and create this environment that makes them want to be there. And it's one of the big drivers for Gen Z's return to brick and mortar into malls is they want an experience. So it's like you kind of got to evolve in that direction for sure. But, you know, beyond Dicks, I think there are certainly many others that are focusing on that, and there are concepts that we're working with that, you know, do a great job. And some that are very non traditional. I mean, you know, we've all heard about the big pickleball craze, and we've done some pickleball, you know, facilities in our enclosed malls, and they've done extremely well and driven traffic. And as you pointed out, Lonnie, it's a different type of visitor that's coming there at a different frequency level, and it's very synergistic. So it's a big thing. We're focused on it. We do. We do a lot of leasing with those types of uses.
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A
So, Lonnie, you were talking about some underperforming malls. Carmen, can you walk us through how an operator can go in and turn one of those malls around and how you guys have experienced that?
- [23:07]
B
Absolutely. You know, Haley, one thing that I would say is that every property is a unique and discreet situation. So there's not a broad brush, one size fits all solution. It really requires you to dig deep into diligence on the property, its history, the market, the demographics, the economic trends, and the analysis of what voids there are. And speaking with the consumer, listening and trying to determine what the different uses that are going to resonate with a community and drive traffic back. So let me just take a quick step back and say that you talked about a struggling property or an underperforming property and then we come in and try to turn it around. And how do you do that? Oftentimes the reason why it's underperforming is because for one reason or another, the sponsor didn't have the focus or make the investment or have the ability to do the right thing for that market, that property in that market. Okay? It's often a lack of sponsorship and sometimes that might be because the property is over levered. They know the loan's maturing in three years and they're not going to be able to recapitalize it. So it's just like we're not going to continue to throw good money after bad. Those scenarios happen. Sad to say, but it's true. So when I describe a mall, one of the analogies that I give that I think is easy to kind of visualize is they're like a basket of fruit. If you let the banana turn brown and the apple gets rotten and the fruit starts to wither, nobody's going to go to the basket, right? They're not, they're going to go eat somewhere else. And it's the same way with the mall. So you could look at that and say, well, people don't like fruit because they're not eating out of that fruit basket. Well, it's not that, it's just not good fruit. It's not the right mix of things. If I go back in there and I get rid of the brown banana and put in a beautiful yellow one and sprinkle some beautiful berries and put in some shiny apples, people will come back to the basket. And that's kind of the approach that you have to take to turn around an underperforming property. So to do that, it's really deciding what types of things need to be done and then dedicating the resource to going out and executing that plan. And because they're all different, it's kind of hard to describe. But for example, if there's a vacant anchor or two vacant acres, that kind of creates decline, right? They're not driving traffic, they look vacant and unappealing. And that may be a signal to the consumer that hey, this property is going in the wrong direction. And it might be just simply because the sponsor either doesn't have the commitment to the property, the, you know, the economics aren't there to allow them to re tenant those. But by going in and getting very creative and Determining the best way to re tenant those and reposition them. It can drive new traffic and investment. And really the difference is the change in sponsorship and the ability or the commitment of that sponsorship. I'll give you an example. We purchased a mall in Strongsville, Ohio, called South Park Mall. Now, I wouldn't say that South Park Mall was underperforming when we bought it, but it certainly is performing a lot better now. And when we acquired that, there was a vacant office max building that just sat vacant and had been vacant for a good amount of time. We re tenanted that with a couple different tenants. One of them, and we talk about brick and mortar, one of them was Boot Barn, who happens to be an example of a retailer that's really expanding. I mean, they're Planning to do 60 new stores in the upcoming year. We also put in a experiential entertainment use in a portion of that building. So taking the time and making the investment to go out and source these tenants and take what is a, you know, a vacant building that looks very unappealing and turning it into something that's been invested in with brand new stores, building it out, driving traffic to a property that had sat vacant and, you know, making it look brand new and fresh is an example. And, you know, that's the kind of thing that you have to do. And you know, when we took over that mall, there were a couple vacant restaurants right on the front of the mall. And the restaurants were vacant. There were several of them. Because during COVID the restaurant operators that were in there went bankrupt. Okay. Because the stores were closed and you know, that hurt their business. And it took significant amount of time and energy for our leasing team to go out, scour the market, understand what would work well. And we ended up bringing in a number of different restaurant concepts. We brought in a regional player called Hooley House, which did a beautiful job building out a former vacant restaurant right on the front of the mall. And they're doing extremely well in sales. We brought in Caillou Ramen, which is kind of a really cool, hot concept who's been experiencing like two hour waits to get in for dinner. And there's other examples as well. K Pod is another very cool Korean barbecue concept that we put in to fill a vacant restaurant. And it's not just putting in any old restaurant. These are quality operators that spent that invested to build out these stores and have a very strong reputation. And the response from the community has been super great. So. But it's, it's the hard work of Going out and finding those tenants and, you know, building a business case, why they should be there, and, you know, do the leasing thing and get them, you know, get them open. And once that happens, you start to see that improvement in overall performance for the whole property. In the case of those two restaurants that I just mentioned, Hooli House and K Pot, we had both of those deals done and leases signed inside of the first year of our ownership of that property. So, I mean, that's pretty fast to go out and find restaurants, you know, sort through all the different options, negotiate deals, you know, and negotiate a lease document and get it signed and then get them open. That's pretty quick. And, you know, it's. It's a real testament to our leasing team.
- [29:32]
A
So, Carmen, you mentioned leasing as a major value driver for your business at Spinoso, but what's another area that your team prioritizes that many people may not think about?
- [29:44]
B
One that often gets overlooked is the marketing and event curation that really helps to connect a retail property to the community that exists within, to give people reasons beyond just shopping to come to the property in a meaningful way. Because then they start to have that experience of building memories, of gathering, you know, sharing experiences, and it changes the whole, like, subconscious dynamic of the consumer. And one of the things that we place a tremendous amount of value on and we dedicate, you know, a lot of resource to is marketing these properties. You know, I've seen a lot of scenarios where the idea for the mall is, you know, we're going to come in in the morning, unlock the doors, turn on the lights, and then people will show up. And yeah, they will show up, but it's not the way to maximize and create meaningful memories. And, you know, we've done so many cool events. We come into a market, and we will network with, you know, the Little League, you know, association in the market. And, you know, I remember being, you know, a dad to some young boys that were playing Little League, and I was on the board of directors for a Little League, and every year you'd have to go to Sign up, which was held at a gymnasium at a local elementary school on a Saturday, and you drag your kids all in tow and. And I remember doing that. And I remember as a board member, you know, we had to pay, like, fifteen hundred dollars to rent the gymnasium out of the school and get insurance and have a, you know, a security guard there. So when we took over a mall recently, I'm like, why don't we call up the Little League and ask them to do their signups at our mall. And not only should we have them do the signups there, because we have a food court and they can, but we can give them some incentives to do that. Like, so we went to the local. To one of our, you know, sporting goods stores, and we purchased, you know, a, you know, a bag of equipment to donate to the Little League, and we gave them, you know, gift cards to get a treat at the food court. So it turned it into this kind of really fun, cool experience. And that's just one little thing. But we have such a talented team that does that, and we work with social influencers. You know, we create events around reasons to gather and also charitable events for the community. So these things are all super important, and it's a big focus of what we do. We do a lot of posting about the events that we have because we're really proud of them. And they've had a real material difference in, you know, tenant sales and traffic that gets driven to the centers because people are coming more frequently and they're staying longer and they're having these great experiences. And then after that, they'll. They'll go to the food court or they'll walk through the mall and be like, oh, there's a new store that I didn't know was here last week, and, you know, let's shop in there. So it's very dynamic, and it's really bringing that kind of sense of community and experience. Like, Lonnie was asking about experiential retailers. It's making the mall itself, you know, a more robust experience.
- [32:54]
C
Yeah, I think that's a. That's a great example of just how you can kind of build a community within the mall. And it's by bringing the community to the mall. And, you know, that's a. That's a great use case for people to organically drive traffic and get people in your space. And so I did want to circle back. I know we talked earlier about just the value of this investment class, etc. I know there's been a lot of sales activity and transactions across this market as well, and I wanted to give you a chance to kind of share your thoughts around that as. As we kind of wrap up, you know, this. This part of the podcast, certainly.
- [33:27]
B
I mean, I think the outlook is very strong. I expect that there'll be a substantial number of transactions in 2026 as groups like us come in and, you know, recognizing the value in these properties, acquire them for the purpose of making them better. You know, I think a Great example, Lonnie, is wpg. I mean, they had an entire portfolio of malls that they decided that they were going to divest. And it's really interesting. They did an incredible job. I think their execution was exceptional. And you know, they sold a large number of properties and we're able to do it in a very short period of time. I mean, the chief investment officer that ran that process for wpg, I think, super talented guy and did a great job, but really proved that there is a market for these assets. I mean, every one of them has sold or maybe there's one or two that are in the process of being sold. We acquired two of them, two models that I mentioned earlier, we bought from wpg. So I mean, I think the outlook is really positive. And I think 2026, especially with what we expect will happen with another potential rate cut, I think, and the capital markets have warmed on this asset category. I really think it's going to be a good year and we're certainly very, very excited about it.
- [34:50]
C
Yeah, it's great to get some positive news out there because I know that WPG portfolio, before it hit the market, there was a lot of banter about whether or not they would actually be able to those assets and sell. That's another great story, I think, and you're a testament to that. I mean, the two assets that you bought, you're going to drive value and increase yield, as you mentioned, for your investor. So it's great to see these stories. I think we've all come to realize, and you did a great job today of just articulating that omnichannel retail is not going anywhere. The channels just may change a little bit. Things that drove value 20 years ago, maybe don't transition exactly like they were then now. But some of the core fundamentals of leasing, you know, your execution, when you gave the examples of those two restaurants, nine and 11 months, you know, kind of start to finish, that's pretty unprecedented in your space. And so your ability to operate and execute those inherently drive value for your investors and for the communities that you serve. And so I agree with you. I think 2026 is set up to be a really strong year. It's been nice to see a little bit of action from the Fed. It hasn't directly Translated into lower 10 year treasury yield, but we think that there's going to be some relief. Based on some of the political talk about a new Fed chairman, et cetera, et cetera, I think 26 is shaping up to where you might see even increase in activity relative to what we've seen this year, which has been really strong.
- [36:13]
B
I agree. We're excited about it.
- [36:15]
A
So, Carmen, you've given us a lot to think about today and kind of walked through where the retail and mall space has been, where it's going, and what your team has done to really expand and grow the space. So maybe you can close with just a final thought on your outlook. Where do you see the industry going and is there anything in particular you're watching or trends that you think our audience should be aware of?
- [36:42]
B
Great question. Well, we've talked about a number of trends, and what I would say is that all of these trends that we've discussed, robust holiday spending, the fact that many retailers are expanding their store fleets. Same is true with entertainment venues, dining establishments, et cetera. Gen Z's enthusiasm for malls, and not just Gen Z, but all consumers kind of returning to the mall. And a resilient 2026 outlook for, you know, the economy paints a very promising picture for the retail and the mall industry. I'd conclude by saying malls aren't dead.
- [37:21]
A
Love it. This has been a really exciting episode. A lot of people have a thesis about where they think a market is going or performance. But to hear you really give examples on what your firm has done to expand and excel the retail industry has been really cool. So thanks for sharing all of that today. Before we wrap up, I want to make sure our listeners understand how to reach Spinoso. To reach out to you, your team. Can you just give a brief overview of how we can find you, connect with you, and learn more?
- [37:56]
B
Yeah, absolutely. We attend and sponsor CREF C conferences. We'll be there. I'll be there in Miami in the warm weather up here in upstate New York. Right now it's pretty cold, so I'm looking forward to that in January. But an easy way to always reach us is simply through our website, which is spinoso reg.com and you can also follow myself and Spinoso REG on LinkedIn. And we've got a very active social media platform. So there's, you know, multiple channels to connect with us, but either our website or LinkedIn would probably be the two best ways.
- [38:31]
A
Awesome. Yeah, we're excited to see the Spinoso team at CREFC and always excited to reconnect with your team and hear what you're doing. Carmen, thank you again so much for joining us on our show today. We might have to do another check in in a few months and see what's new because it seems like you guys keep growing and expanding, which has been really great to watch.
- [38:53]
B
Well, thank you and more than happy to get together again pretty soon. We've got some interesting things we're working on, so I think we'll have a lot to about talk talk about.
- [39:01]
C
Yeah, I think if 2026 ends up being as prolific as we're hoping, then we'll definitely have to circle back because you have a lot of great examples and stories of some new adventures in 2026, and we hope that comes true for you guys.
- [39:14]
B
Thank you, Lonnie.
- [39:15]
A
Thank you again. And we will see you at CREF C. With that, we'll close this special podcast. Thank you to our guests Carmen Spinoso for joining us today. Join us later this week as we look at what's happened during the week and how it may be impacting you. If you have a question or just a comment, send an email to podcastrep.com until then, visit trep.com for more info and subscribe to the TrepWire podcast with your favorite provider. Thank you for listening and stay well.
- [39:43]
C
All right.