Episode Summary: The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka - Episode 165: Steven Rofrano on Toxic Chips and Smarter Snacking

In Episode 165 of The Ultimate Human, host Gary Brecka engages in a deep and insightful conversation with Stephen Rofrano, CEO and co-founder of Ancient Crunch, the innovative company behind Masa Chips. The episode explores the pervasive issues in the snack food industry, particularly the toxicity of seed oils, and delves into Stephen’s journey of creating healthier, nutrient-dense alternatives without compromising on taste.

1. The Scale of the Snack Food Problem

Stephen Rofrano opens the discussion by highlighting the monumental scale of the snack food industry:

“Frito Lay North America, which sells Doritos, Tostitos, Lays, et cetera, people buy $30 billion worth of that a year. So when we say massive problem, food in general is big...” [00:00]

Gary Brecka concurs, emphasizing the toxicity of the industry's staple ingredients:

“The non GMOs, that industry is one of the most toxic sources that supplies our food system.” [00:10]

2. The Genesis of Masa Chips

Stephen recounts the pivotal moment that led to the creation of Masa Chips:

“One of my friends was eating a bunch of tostitos one morning... After a bit of a rant about seed oils being toxic, he challenged me to create a healthier alternative.” [02:19]

Determined to find a solution, Stephen began experimenting with tallow-fried tortilla chips, aiming to produce a snack that was both healthy and delicious.

3. Understanding and Eliminating Seed Oils

The conversation delves into the history and detrimental effects of seed oils:

“Seed oils went from 0 to 25 to 30% of the average American's calories... They’re not part of our evolutionary diet.” [10:00]

Stephen elaborates on the origins of seed oils, tracing back to early 20th-century commodification and highlighting their widespread use in modern food production:

“Procter and Gamble had a lot of cottonseed oil left over... They hydrogenated it to make it a solid fat, leading to margarine and later, liquid seed oils.” [10:00-13:34]

4. The Health Implications of Seed Oils

Gary draws parallels between seed oils and other chronic toxins, stressing their cumulative impact:

“The difference between cumulative dose toxicity and single dose toxicity... Toxins that have safe levels in a single dose accumulate and they back up and blow the engine.” [14:00-17:05]

Stephen adds insight into how multiple toxins processed by the same biological pathways can overwhelm the body:

“The same enzymes that process ethanol in the liver... process polyunsaturated fats from seed oils... It’s quite likely that your total dose of both alcohol and seed oils should be lower.” [17:05-18:48]

5. Crafting a Healthier Chip Alternative

Stephen details the meticulous process of developing Masa Chips, focusing on ingredient quality and nutrient density:

“Our chips are fried in grass-fed beef tallow, packed with essential vitamins like A, D, E, and K2... Masa’s corn undergoes nixtamalization, making it easier to digest and boosting its nutrient profile.” [19:20-50:21]

He emphasizes avoiding artificial additives and GMOs, striving for real, nutrient-dense ingredients:

“Every single thing on that label needs to justify itself. It’s a lot of fricking work.” [40:02]

6. Overcoming Production Challenges

Transitioning from a backyard operation to a scalable business posed significant hurdles:

“We couldn't find a factory willing to work with grass-fed tallow... So we had to rent a commercial kitchen and handle much of the production manually.” [24:37-27:55]

Stephen discusses the high costs associated with manual production and the strategies to mitigate them, including automation:

“We’re looking at machinery that can produce 10,000 bags in an hour with just eight people, down from our current 24-person operation making 2,000 bags in eight hours.” [37:10-38:35]

7. Ensuring Quality and Flavor Without Compromise

Maintaining superior taste while enhancing nutritional value was paramount:

“Our flavorings are all real. For example, our lime chips use actual lime powder instead of artificial substitutes like citric acid and lime oil.” [41:49-43:49]

Stephen shares the labor-intensive process of creating authentic flavors:

“Our lime powder is $40 a pound because we use organic limes, slice them, dehydrate, and grind them into a powder.” [43:31-44:08]

8. Scaling Up and Future Plans

As demand for Masa Chips surges, Stephen outlines plans for expanding production and reducing costs through automation:

“We can make approximately 100,000 bags a month manually, but with automated lines, we aim to meet the growing demand without compromising quality.” [55:24-56:19]

He envisions Ancient Crunch as a portfolio of brands that redefine classic American snacks with real, nutrient-dense ingredients:

“Our goal is to have a portfolio of these mini companies, brands of classic American snack products that people really enjoy... making it as best as it possibly can be.” [52:48-53:22]

9. The Broader Impact on Health and Culture

The duo discusses the cultural significance of snacking and its impact on modern health:

“Americans spend only 11% of their budget on food now compared to a third in the 1950s... but the quality has suffered because of this.” [32:51-33:30]

Stephen asserts that investing more in food quality today can prevent chronic illnesses and improve overall well-being:

“If we're focusing on fixing food to fix our health, we need to spend more on quality ingredients.” [34:37-35:11]

10. Defining the "Ultimate Human"

Closing the episode, Stephen reflects on the concept of being an ultimate human:

“It would be potentiality. Maximizing our ability to do stuff... enhancing our health and mental acuity to engage fully in life’s activities.” [57:06-58:43]

Key Takeaways

• Seed Oils are Harmful: A significant portion of American calories comes from seed oils, which are linked to chronic health issues due to their inflammatory nature and cumulative toxicity.

• Nutrient-Dense Alternatives are Viable: Stephen Rofrano successfully created Masa Chips using grass-fed beef tallow and non-GMO, organic corn, proving that healthier snacks can be both tasty and satisfying.

• Challenges of Scaling a Health-Focused Startup: Transitioning from manual production to automated factories is essential for meeting demand and reducing costs, but requires significant investment and strategic planning.

• Importance of Real Ingredients: Avoiding artificial additives, preservatives, and GMOs is crucial for maintaining the nutritional integrity of food products.

• Cultural Shift Needed: There's a need for greater investment in food quality to prevent chronic illnesses and promote a healthier society.

• Ultimate Human Defined by Potential: Achieving optimal health is about maximizing one's potential to engage and thrive in various aspects of life.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Stephen Rofrano [00:00]: “People buy $30 billion worth of [Doritos, Tostitos, Lays] a year. So when we say massive problem, food in general is big...”

• Gary Brecka [00:10]: “The non GMOs, that industry is one of the most toxic sources that supplies our food system.”

• Stephen Rofrano [10:00]: “Anyone who understands this idea of how we're evolved... No one has evolved to eat seed oils.”

• Gary Brecka [14:00]: “The difference between cumulative dose toxicity and single dose toxicity...”

• Stephen Rofrano [24:37]: “We couldn't find a factory willing to work with grass-fed tallow...”

• Stephen Rofrano [43:31]: “Our lime powder is $40 a pound because we use organic limes, slice them, dehydrate, and grind them into a powder.”

• Stephen Rofrano [57:06]: “It would be potentiality. Maximizing our ability to do stuff...”

Conclusion

Episode 165 of The Ultimate Human offers a compelling exploration of the intersection between food quality and health. Stephen Rofrano’s journey with Masa Chips underscores the importance of making conscientious choices in our snacking habits. By prioritizing nutrient-dense, real ingredients and overcoming significant production challenges, Masa Chips stands as a testament to what is possible when health and taste are given equal importance. The conversation reinforces the idea that optimizing our diet is fundamental to achieving overall well-being and realizing our full potential as ultimate humans.