201. Sam Maxwell & Kyle Ponton: Cold Plunging Science & Health Benefits + How You Can Start!

Summary

The Ultimate Human with Gary Brecka

Episode 201: Sam Maxwell & Kyle Ponton: Cold Plunging Science & Health Benefits + How You Can Start!
Released: September 16, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, host Gary Brecka sits down with Sam Maxwell and Kyle Ponton, co-founders of Cold Life Cold Plunges, to dive into the science, health benefits, and practicalities surrounding cold plunging. The conversation covers everything from the founders' personal journeys with cold therapy – including its impact on ADHD and addiction – to the physiology, protocols, and growing community around this trend. The trio explains how deliberate discomfort can be a tool for profound mental and physical transformation, and encourages listeners to explore cold exposure as a holistic practice with enduring potential.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Stories: Cold Plunging as Transformation

• Sam's Journey: From Adderall Addiction to Cold Therapy (00:00–07:54)

  • Diagnosed with severe ADHD as a child; developed dependency on Adderall.
  • Experimented with cryotherapy, but found transformative results only with consistent ice baths.
  • After 14 days of cold plunging, he lost cravings for medication.

    “Within 14 days, I reflected, and I was like, I'm not craving the Adderall.” – Sam (06:15)

  • Now leverages his experience to help others seeking drug-free alternatives.

• Kyle's Introduction: Building Community, Embracing Discomfort (03:09–04:49)

  • Discovered cold plunging in Atlanta with friends, not knowing scientific details but loving the mental clarity and “addictive” feeling.
  • What started as a five-person activity became a large community event.
  • Cold plunging became a cornerstone for his routine and ultimately a business idea.

2. Cold Life: Intentions and Product Philosophy

• Quality, Customer Focus, and American Manufacturing (10:33–16:52)
  • Gary, as a Cold Life shareholder, praises the co-founders for rigorous product development with a focus on reliability (in contrast to high failure rates with imported chillers).
  • Customer feedback drives product improvements and company strategy.
  • Pride in being American-made—more expensive and challenging, but worth it for product integrity.

3. The Science of Cold Plunging

• Hormesis & The Importance of Discomfort (19:56–20:39)

  • Cold exposure is a “hormetic stressor”–a deliberate challenge that strengthens the body.

  • “Aging is the aggressive pursuit of comfort...Some level of discomfort can make you stronger.” – Gary (20:20)

• Neurochemistry – Dopamine, Norepinephrine, and More (08:04–09:02, 25:08–32:12)

  • Cold therapy naturally raises neurotransmitters (dopamine, norepinephrine, serotonin), improving mood, focus, and emotional regulation.
  • Preferred over pharmacological interventions for many struggling with attention or mood disorders.

• Sympathetic-to-Parasympathetic Shift – Nervous System Training (23:13–25:45)

  • The hardest part is the first 30–90 seconds (fight or flight). Staying through this period allows the body to transition into a calmer state.

  • This “nervous system exercise” helps build resilience to stress in daily life.

  • “You get past that 30 seconds, 60 seconds, 90 seconds...then all of a sudden, everything's okay.” – Kyle (24:39)

  • The Mammalian Dive Reflex (25:08–26:13): Dunking your face in cold water triggers an ancient reflex, calming the heart rate and reducing stress.

4. Optimizing Your Cold Plunge Routine

• Timing Relative to Exercise (17:51–19:36)

  • Post-exercise cold plunging immediately after heavy lifting may blunt inflammation needed for muscle adaptation.
  • Best to wait a few hours after training, or plunge prior to a workout for a stimulant-like effect without caffeine.
  • Occasional short, cold plunges before bed (paired with sauna) can aid sleep without spiking alertness.

• Time, Temperature, and Protocols (26:29–28:31)

  • No benefit to simply going "colder" for longer.

    “There's no studies that say the colder the better.” – Sam (26:41)

  • Recommended range:
    • Temperature: 48–55°F (9–13°C)
    • Duration: Start with 1–2 minutes, build up to 3–6 minutes/session
    • Frequency: Total 10–14 minutes/week is sufficient (2–3 mins/session, 4–5x/week)
  • Cold showers can be a harder, but effective, entry point.
  • End cold/hot contrast sessions with cold to maximize benefits.

5. Benefits Beyond the Physical

• Mental Health, Community, and Social Change (33:25–37:56)
  • Sharpened clarity, focus, and sense of accomplishment from overcoming discomfort.
  • Cold plunging is spreading across demographics – not just intense athletes, but corporate professionals and whole families.
  • Events like “Coffee & Chill” are replacing parties focused on alcohol with networking, connection, and health.

  • “People are realizing, man, there's so many ways to feel really good without drugs and alcohol.” – Gary (33:13 / 36:29)

6. Inspiring Testimonials

• From Stage Four Cancer to Everyday Wins (47:02–48:34)
  • Stories include people in cancer treatment, veterans battling PTSD, older adults overcoming sluggishness and boosting confidence, and corporate clients replacing caffeine.

  • “There is a man that's battling stage four cancer...who is getting in through a cold plunge every single day. It's insanely inspiring...” – Kyle (47:16)

  • Many users buy second units for workplace, vacation homes, or even to support friends and family in difficult times.

7. The Future & Cultural Longevity of Cold Exposure

• Cold Plunging as a Lasting Practice (40:50–41:24)

  • Cold exposure, like acupuncture, is an ancient practice with enduring appeal due to its tangible benefits.

  • “I feel like cold exposure is one of those things that is going to still be mainstream 5,000 years from now.” – Gary (41:02)

• Spread and Community Building (36:00–38:33)

  • Accessibility is growing: gyms, wellness studios, and home set-ups abound – “just get started” is the prevailing advice.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Building Resilience:

  “If your morning is hard, your day will be easy.” – Gary (00:54)
  “Doing that very hard thing in the morning just sets me up for my day.” – Kyle (00:56)

• On Cold Therapy vs Medication:

  “The best part about the cold plunge is there's no crash. ... Four to six hours at minimum, I feel phenomenal. ... Compared to taking medication like Adderall or Vyvanse ... I was a hothead.” – Sam (44:11)
  “Addicts weren't really seeking a high. They were seeking normalcy ... And I think what this gives people is a way to do that with a lot of beneficial consequences.” – Gary (43:06)

• On the Transition During Cold Plunge:

  “You forget to breathe, your body is thinking, okay, I need to kick in because I'm gonna die ... But if you get past that 30–60–90 second marker ... you start to find calm.” – Kyle (24:13)
  “You can actually capture this benefit by putting your face in the water when you first get in.” – Gary (25:39)

• On Community & Social Effects:

  “It turned into a big community, which is why I loved it.” – Kyle (04:21)
  “It's becoming a really cool way to even build community, you know?” – Gary (36:00)
  “We love being a part of those communities, and honestly, a lot of those types of communities are growing all over the place.” – Kyle (37:24)

• On Product Philosophy:

  “If you don't hear the feedback from the people, then you're never really going to know how to make the best thing.” – Kyle (14:51)

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Practical Tips: How to Start Cold Plunging

• Start Small:
  Try 30–60 second cold showers or simple DIY ice baths.
• Ideal Temperature:
  48–55°F (9–13°C) is the sweet spot. No need to go colder right away.
• Duration:
  Work up to 3–6 minutes max per session.
• Frequency:
  2–3 minutes, 4–5 times per week. 10–14 minutes weekly is sufficient for most benefits.
• End on Cold:
  For contrast therapy, always finish with cold exposure.
• Community Access:
  Try gyms, recovery studios, or organized events if you don’t have home access.
• Leverage Discomfort:
  Remember: “Aging is the aggressive pursuit of comfort.” The challenge is the point.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00 — Sam shares his journey overcoming ADHD & Adderall addiction through cold therapy.
• 03:09 — Kyle’s first experiences and the rise of community cold plunging in Atlanta.
• 05:07 — The founders’ first partnership spark.
• 10:33 — Gary discusses product quality and lessons learned from imported equipment failures.
• 17:51 — Do cold plunges interfere with post-exercise gains? Timing matters.
• 19:56 — Hormesis: Why discomfort strengthens the body.
• 23:13 — Sympathetic to parasympathetic shift, nervous system resilience.
• 25:08 — The mammalian dive reflex—face dunk to shift your body’s response.
• 26:29 — Ideal cold plunge protocols: time, temperature, and adaptation.
• 33:25 — The mental benefits, extreme presence, and clarity from cold exposure.
• 36:00 — Cold plunging as a social, communal wellness activity.
• 40:50 — Cold exposure: enduring practice or passing fad?
• 47:02 — Customer testimonials: stage four cancer and beyond.

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Episode Takeaways

• Cold plunging is emerging as a powerful tool for mental clarity, emotional regulation, and physical resilience—not just for athletes but for anyone seeking to thrive and push back against comfort.
• Personal journeys, like Sam’s escape from Adderall dependency, underscore cold therapy’s potential for addiction recovery and mental health.
• Scientific protocols matter: Moderation, timing, and proper temperature/duration maximize benefits.
• The community aspect is deeply valued—cold plunging brings people together in new, healthy ways.
• This practice isn’t hype; it’s part of a lineage of ancient health approaches that deliver lasting results.

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“There’s so many ways to feel really good without drugs and alcohol.” – Gary Brecka (36:29)

For those seeking change, resilience, and community, cold plunging offers a simple—but not easy—gateway.

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Transcript

[Sam]

My favorite part about cold plunging is that it changed my life completely. I was diagnosed with severe ADHD when I was young. I was just googling what can help me with an Adderall addiction. So when I found the cold therapy, being able to substitute that, I was buying ice every single day. I'm a walking testimonial of what we sell and what we created.

[Gary Brecker]

I literally call it my drug of choice because nothing makes me feel better for longer. That aspect of getting out and just being so clear, people are realizing, man, there's so many ways to feel really good without drugs and alcohol.

[Sam]

That's when we then connected on how much he believed in cold plunging. And he was like, dude, let's stop everything we're both doing right now, put our brains together, and let's create our own product.

[Gary Brecker]

Most people see comfort very aggressively. They avoid any level of discomfort. Not realizing that some level of discomfort can make you stronger.

[Kyle]

There's really something to be said about pursuing the discomfort to where then when stuff comes at you, you just feel like you got it.

[Gary Brecker]

I always say, if your morning is hard, your day will be easy.

[Kyle]

Doing that very hard thing in the morning just sets me up for my day.

[Gary Brecker]

I feel like cold exposure is one of those things that is going to still be mainstream 5,000 years from now. When you look at the intelligence, really break this down. You get into a cold punch. What is the body going to do in that situation?

[Kyle]

One of the things that I found very interesting was, and I didn't really learn about this, really into this past year or two is foreign.

[Gary Brecker]

Hey, guys, welcome back to the Ultimate Human podcast. I'm your host, human biologist Gary Brecker, where we go down the road of everything anti aging, biohacking, longevity, and everything in between. Today's going to be a really special podcast because it's on a broad topic that so many people are interested in and even more people are confused about. So I'm really, really excited to run this podcast on Cold Plunging. And I've asked two of my very good friends and partners to come to the podcast today. So welcome Sam and Kyle from Cold Life, Cold Plunges. Welcome to the podcast, guys.

[Kyle]

Thanks for having us on, Gary. We're pumped to be here, man.

[Gary Brecker]

This has been an awesome journey. I mean, in full disclosure, I'm a shareholder and. And in Cold Life, a proud shareholder. I met you guys a few years ago through. Through my son. I. I fell in love with the purpose and the passion. Reminded me a lot of, you know, when I was getting going off the ground. Young entrepreneur, passionate about an idea, unrelenting. But what I really appreciated about you guys was the. The level of intentionality that you had in. In bringing your product to market. You wanted it to be American made. You wanted to have the best motors, you wanted to have the most durable plunge. And I don't want to turn this into a commercial for cold life because I want to go into the science of cold plunging. But I want to get that out of the way first. This is not a podcast to sell you a cold plunge. Of course, the podcast, you know, talking about all the benefits. So let's just rewind the clock a little bit. I mean, how and. And why did you decide to take the leap into cold plunging and make that your.

[Kyle]

I'll start. So for. For me, my journey was. Was honestly a little simple. You know, I got INV Saturday morning. I don't know, this is probably four or five years ago now, probably right before COVID era. I'm from Atlanta, so in Atlanta, the winter time, it gets pretty cold. So thankfully we have some pretty cold water near us and all the showers and such. And so I had a couple crazy buddies of mine and we said, hey, let's just go to a local pool and do this in the morning. It's like 8am Saturday morning. You know, what else better do I got to do than go jump into a pool of cold water? So I started to do this, and it was incredible for me. I literally came out of there. I had no idea what any of these benefits were. I didn't know any of this. The mental clarity, inflammation. I didn't know any of these buzzwords. I just knew. I felt like, incredible.

[Gary Brecker]

And.

[Kyle]

And it was just so addicting. So we kept on coming back, and then five of us turned into 20 of us turned into 60 of us, turned into almost hundreds of us. Getting together weekly back in Atlanta, really.

[Gary Brecker]

Jump in the lake to just jump into a pool. There used to be something in Chicago I. I lived. I went to grad school in Chicago. It's called the Polar Club. Yeah, exactly.

[Kyle]

Do you remember that?

[Gary Brecker]

Like once a year they'd all go. I actually didn't do that for the record, but they would all go, bum rush, Lake Michigan. I was like, he crazy. Yeah.

[Kyle]

Yeah.

[Gary Brecker]

But it was like women and.

[Kyle]

Yeah, everybody killed. The whole everybody. A big community of everything. So that. And that's what this turned into, was just a big community, which is why I loved it. And then Sam and I had, you know, had met and we were doing some different, you Know, business things on the side. And so one day I walk in. This is while I'm doing these events and such, I walk into Sam, and I'm. I'm going over there to say, hey, you need to come check out the skull punch thing. We're doing. We're doing pools. You know, next weekend, you got to come by. And I walk in, and I'll let Sam share his side of the story on that. But that's really where I discovered. Wait, you're doing cold plunging do.

[Sam]

Yeah, I had just discovered cold plunging. And my favorite part about cold plunging is, is that it changed my life completely.

[Gary Brecker]

You know, a lot of people do say that. And for people that are watching this, like, okay, yeah, sure, I get it. Where's the affiliate link? So, you know, yeah, seriously.

[Sam]

But for me, I'm, you know, I'm a walking testimonial of what we sell and what we created. And going into that. I was diagnosed with severe ADHD when I was young. And when I met Kyle, I was just trying to get over my addiction of taking Adderall. As I got older, I hated that I was absolutely dependent on a medication.

[Gary Brecker]

Wow.

[Sam]

And the older I got, the more I was aware of how horrible of a person it made me. My family, that's a tough one, too, man. My family, everyone that was close to me was scared to confront Sam about his addiction to Adderall. I wouldn't sleep for days. I would take multiple a day. I got down, like 145 pounds, and I was oblivious. So the older I got, I was looking for an outlet, a natural way to battle my adhd, but not take the medication anymore.

[Gary Brecker]

Right.

[Sam]

So after doing some research, I saw that cold therapy was a possible solution to fix that. And I tried cryo. And just for me personally, it didn't make me get over that edge. I was still craving the medication. Then I discovered ice baths. So I bought a plastic barrel at my office. I didn't want to spend thousands of dollars on the few that were on the market at the time. And I bought a barrel, and I was buying ice every single day, and I didn't miss a day for, like, 14 days, really. And within 14 days, I reflected, and I was like, I'm not craving the apple.

[Gary Brecker]

But who was the one that was like, hey, dude, you. I think you need to try? Was that you? It was you.

[Kyle]

Yeah. Well, it actually wasn't me. I won't take the credit for that. I came in. It was completely independently, which is probably.

[Sam]

Why, like, an article I was, like, up at the office, like, late at night, didn't have my prescription. I was just struggling. Right. Take drinking so much caffeine every single day. And I was just googling. I was out of curiosity, like, what can help me with an Adderall addiction? And I looked at cold therapy. There's a few articles at the time that said that it could help. Yeah. Which we'll dive into in a little bit. But I started doing ice baths in a plastic barrel. And he walked into my office at the time when we were doing a different venture together.

[Gary Brecker]

He's like, bro. He's like, what's going on here?

[Kyle]

What do we got going?

[Sam]

He's like, what's this Jeffrey Dmer bucket in the corner of your office?

[Gary Brecker]

It is true.

[Sam]

This crusty thing hiding over there. He walks over to it, and he's like, dude, this water is disgusting. And I'm like. I'm like, dude, I don't care. I'm like, I'm. I get ice every day. I'm like, I'm tired of buying ice. But I was like, I don't miss a day, dude. And that's when we then connected on how much he believed in cold plunging.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah.

[Sam]

I started telling him about want to start a cold punch company. And he was like, dude, let's stop everything we're both doing right now, put our brains together, and let's create our own product.

[Gary Brecker]

And what were you guys doing at the time?

[Sam]

I was. I had my own prior, like, e commerce business. Selling 360 spinning photo booths.

[Kyle]

Okay.

[Sam]

I used to always follow trends. And what I like to say about the cold plunge is that I'm not in this because it's a trend. I'm in this because it changed my life. And now we want this to impact as many lives as possible.

[Gary Brecker]

Good for you.

[Sam]

So I'm very proud of myself for getting off that drug and now every day communicating with customers and possible prospects to join the cold life and be a customer.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah.

[Sam]

People are battling adhd and it's not talked about enough.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah. You know, I talk about this a lot, you know, because I've. I've studied genetic methylation pathways and how the body converts nutrients and what have you. And one of the nutrients that we make in the human body, we make dopamine, we make serotonin, we make norepinephrine, we make the neurotransmitters.

[Kyle]

Yep.

[Gary Brecker]

That create our mood, that create our emotions, and so for making them inside the body, when we take things from outside the body and Put them in in an effort to try to fix that deficiency. It never works. Right. I mean, it works for a period of time, but it creates dependency or creates something called tachyphylaxis, which is desensitization. So, I mean, unknowingly you st. You basically stepped on a physiologic secret, and that is that your body can produce these.

[Sam]

And it was so powerful within. Within myself. I was 25 at the time and I was like, this is me going to the next chapter of my life, trying to become a better person.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah. I literally call it my drug of choice. And the reason why I say drug of choice is because nothing makes me feel better for longer. And there's no. There's no downside to it.

[Kyle]

Yeah. Yes.

[Gary Brecker]

Other than. Other than the apprehension right before you get it right. Exactly.

[Sam]

It's always cool.

[Gary Brecker]

But then that gives you that kind of.

[Kyle]

What you'll kind of learn as an upside down. The road.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah.

[Kyle]

Doing that hard thing. Yeah.

[Gary Brecker]

What are the top three reasons why I prefer a vertical cold plunge versus a lay down tube? Well, I've used both. When you're in a vertical position, your body naturally regulates your breathing better. So if you're holding on to the sides and you're in a vertical position, you can just focus on your breath work and you can stay calm. A lot of people feel more calm when they're in a vertical position than when they're laying down in the water and think they might slip under the water. So when you're vertical plunging, you're fully immersed faster. You can focus on recovery, inflammation reduction, and you're not struggling to just stay in a lie down position. Your body floats in an awkward way sometimes. So it's just a more efficient, comfortable experience. In my opinion. It takes up way less space too. It has a smaller footprint. So you can put these on your patio, your garage, your bathroom, your locker room. You can really put it anywhere. I've got one on my balcony. I've got two in my bathroom. So this is why Cold life is my favorite cold plunge on the market. So click the link below and you can order yours today. Make sure you get the ultimate human version. Now let's get back to the ultimate human podcast. Yeah, that's great. So how about you? What was your first? Kind of. For me, you're into the cold plunging now. You got a little bit of background. You walk in, he's. Yeah, he's in the dirty algae water. That's a guy I want to be in business. Well, it was, dude, Give him the honest.

[Sam]

Great choice, dude.

[Kyle]

Well, you know what? It's. You know this because, you know, now we've gotten to know each other for some years now, and so we know this, but in life, everything is about relationships. And so when I met Sam, we actually had a completely different business together. I'd given him some money for really just kind of an investment into some E commerce stuff he was doing, and it completely flopped and failed. And through that process, Sam really showed the kind of person he was by not only making me whole and making efforts to do that, but the communication and showing and being transparent and showing all the effort. And so I like to judge a character when things are not good, not when things are great. It's very easy to hide things when.

[Gary Brecker]

You guys have done. Proven that to me too.

[Kyle]

Well, thank you. We appreciate that. Because it's easy to hide when things are good. You know, numbers help, right? You know, everyone's doing well and everyone wants to really poke the bear, but when things are tough, everyone looks to go point fingers. And that's not what Sam did, which I really respected. And I said, hey, I don't really, you know, I want to do something with you. Let's find a project together. And so for me, I was. I was. I was starting this cold plunges out, and it was just five of us, and then so fast it turned into 20 and then 30 and then 100. And I was like, there's so much more people who want to do this. Yeah, there's so much more people who want to be a part of this. And so when I talked to Sam about it, I said, man, we should start something.

[Sam]

Well, and it happened for a reason, clearly, because he was actually coming to my office to pick up a partial check to me.

[Gary Brecker]

To me to get him.

[Sam]

Exactly.

[Gary Brecker]

That's.

[Sam]

I didn't want him to come by that day. Just being honest with you, I was.

[Gary Brecker]

That's why the cold punch was dirty. He's like, in here, bro.

[Sam]

Yeah, literally, I. I was dreading that day, to be honest with you. It was a rough, like, season of life. I was in the business flopped. And he came by and we didn't talk about the check for three hours. Yeah, he was just like. We just talked about it in the corner of the office forever. He's like, dude, what do you like about it? You know, what do you want to do about this? Like, we just looked up on Google trends, like the search volume on Google of cold plunging was slowly increasing. And then thanks to Kyle, truthfully, he just Was dedicated. And every single day after that day, he showed me.

[Gary Brecker]

I got a real sense for that too when I met you guys because, you know, the, the cold plunge space was by no means saturated, but I was actually just coming out of a very difficult cold plunge experience, you know, with the my clinics. We invested heavily in this cold plunge company that was actually sourcing everything from China.

[Kyle]

Yeah.

[Gary Brecker]

And I don't have anything against China except everything that comes out of China. But Chinese people are great, you know.

[Kyle]

Yeah, exactly.

[Gary Brecker]

I love lo m. Is that Chinese?

[Kyle]

Yeah, I think so.

[Gary Brecker]

So good. We'll go with a lot of good things come out of come out of China. But, but. And we got, we bought like 250 of these things, sold them to our biggest clients and they were thousands of dollars. And then we had a 65% failure rate in the motors. Cost my partner and i7 figures. Because we did the right thing. We refunded everybody's money, let them keep the cold plunge. And I was, you know, just coming off of this shell shock and I met you guys and I was like, oh gosh, here we go. Y But when I started talking to you and you, you know, American made right here in America, American labor. The, the factory is right down the street from my house. I'm like, I'm gonna come put a finger on that guys.

[Kyle]

Yep.

[Gary Brecker]

You know, powder coated, aluminum, durable. And I think I ran mine for about a year before I put my toe in the water with you guys.

[Sam]

Yeah, we didn't hear from. I remember we, we came and dropped it off.

[Gary Brecker]

I was beating that thing up. We had it out in the sun, on and off and on and off. And then I brought it into the house and then I started letting everybody get in there every day. And I was like, man, these guys are pretty legit. And then I remember, I was like, you know, this motors like, you know, it's a little bit noisy. You're like, don't worry. Next generation we've got. And you brought the motors over. They're whisper quiet, like, okay. I like, I like these guys. Dedicated to customer quality, dedicated to customer service. What I like too is that you shaped your company, at least from my perspective. On the backs of the feedback you were getting from your customers 1000% you thought they needed.

[Sam]

We still communicate with our customers frequently. And no matter how big we get, I mean, since July 1st of this month, nearly every day I've been helping with sales, being on the phone with sales opportunities or even we call customers to get feedback.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah.

[Sam]

Ask them how it's going. And it's been a great way to get good clarity that we're at a great position. We have been that the products that are good.

[Kyle]

It's hard to, it's hard to, I think, do anything right if you don't have customer feedback because you're just sitting in your own kind of siloed world thinking, I think I have the best sauce of whatever it is, even whatever you. For selling products, services, media companies, whatever. You know, if you don't hear the feedback from the people, then you're never really going to know how to make the best thing. Yeah. So for us, we kind of knew. We knew some of the things right early on by going out there and testing the market a little bit. We knew American Made was going to be a massive one. That's a, that's a huge thing.

[Gary Brecker]

I mean, this is even, you know, pre. The current administration, which is really incentivizing.

[Kyle]

Yes, exactly.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah. Pre. All of us get smoked by the.

[Kyle]

Tariffs and it was tough because we know some of our competitors, people, they're not bad people. It was just a really challenging thing that, like you mentioned about China. There's, you know, there's, there's people have their opinions on China and there's certain things that we use every single day that come from China. And chillers should just not be one of those things.

[Gary Brecker]

Right. Yeah, yeah. I supposedly had ozone filtration and all this stuff. I mean, it sounded great.

[Kyle]

Yeah, exactly. It's super gimmicky. Right. Kind of looks like a shiny toy object syndrome is what I call it. You know, looks good, sounds good. That's a cool screen and all that. But our philosophy is very simple. When we go about building products. I don't want this to turn into a whole cold life episode about our products, but we're passionate about it. We have a lot of passion behind what we build. And we really take a simple approach behind the engineering and the development of these things, which is just build simple products that look beautiful.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah.

[Kyle]

And the more you complicate things, the more, you know, gadgets and widgets and things and this put inside of these machines, the more likely you're going to have something break. And that was our biggest problem. If you go call any cold punch company or I can guarantee you, you know, they're struggling because the failure rates are high because most of the machines do come from overseas. So we're. We really wanted to stand on that and say we wanted to make an American made product, which by the way, takes A significant more time, significant more resources, significant more energy, money, everything. It's very challenging to do things here in America. It's also way more expensive. So we, we went that journey, though, and it took us, you know, coming up on, took us over a year of just development, you know, before selling anything, to really go out there, the tub itself and build these things.

[Gary Brecker]

So, so let's delve. Let's delve a little bit into, you know, the science and the benefits. I mean, clearly I'm a, I'm, I'm. I'm a believer. You know, cold plunging was definitely a tipping point for me, but now that I'm out there and looking at the research and of course you can't, you know, you're on Instagram, the stuff comes into my feed. You see, the people are all over the place on, on, on cold plunging. I think the hardcore cold plungers, like, like myself, try not to go a day without it. I mean, in Colorado, I got one $65 cattle trough that I jump in because I can't. I don't have electricity, right. Literally. So there's no. I can't run it. I can't run a chiller. So I, I just, I bought one $65 aluminum cattle trough.

[Kyle]

There we go.

[Gary Brecker]

The water comes out of the glacier, like 42 degrees, and I jump in and I don't get moldy like yours. Change it every day. But I guess that wasn't in my.

[Sam]

Office, you know, extremely healthy then.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You hadn't taken my mold detox class yet.

[Sam]

Not yet.

[Gary Brecker]

You can sign up for that challenge. So, you know, but one of, one of the articles I read lately, studies was that cold plunging actually reduces the benefits of exercise. And I think that this threw a little, no pun intended, but cold water on the cold plunging space. And maybe clarify that or talk about that a little bit, you know, timing or whatnot.

[Kyle]

I can share some stuff on that. So there was a recent study that came out, and I think it kind of scared people a little bit thinking like, oh, no, cold plunging is bad. And it's really kind of like anything. It's a very nuanced discussion. It's not general, it's very nuanced. And so when they talk about inflammation being bad after a workout, they're talking about the concept of when you're working out after a heavy lift, right. In a heavy, in a, in a gym exercise where you're actually inflaming the muscles and that's the intention of the exercise. Then immediately following the exercise you probably don't want to now deflame the muscle. I would agree on that. Now you might know more about this. I'm sure there is a time period and that's I think where the nuance comes in. Is it an hour, is it four hours, is it three hours? I think that's where the kind of the conversation comes in. I think safely, just for everyone's purposes. If you wait a couple hours and just use logic and then you go hop in the cold punch for recovery.

[Gary Brecker]

You'Re going to be okay. Or if you do it prior to.

[Kyle]

Exercise or just do it prior to exercise.

[Sam]

And I think that's where people misunderstood. It makes it seems like common sense right after the workout, going to get in the cold punch for recovery, which like you just said though now I cold plunge before I work out.

[Kyle]

Yeah, I do too. Yeah.

[Sam]

I don't have to take pre workout or caffeine or nothing. That's, that's, that's it right there for me. And then additionally if I want to do it again, I just wait until later in the day.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah. And you know, I, I've actually used it as a contrast therapy sometimes even before I go to bed. Now I won't get in for a long time, but I'll do a short sauna session. Then I'll just go in the cold punch for about 30 seconds, quick dunk, come up to my neck, hang out for about 30 seconds and then get out. So it doesn't actually give me that massive spike of norepinephrine dopamine.

[Kyle]

Yeah.

[Gary Brecker]

And I find that I sleep really, really well.

[Kyle]

Yeah.

[Gary Brecker]

On, on those nights. But let's go to the science. A little bit of cold plunging. I mean we, we know that there are stresses you can apply to the body called hormesis or hermetic stresses. These are stresses that we apply to the body, the body strengthens in response. I, I often say we're talking about it before the podcast that, you know, aging is the aggressive pursuit of comfort and most people seek comfort very aggressively and they avoid any level of discomfort. Not realizing that some level of discomfort can make you stronger.

[Kyle]

Yeah.

[Gary Brecker]

So talk a little bit about direct evidence backed benefits that come from cold plunging.

[Kyle]

Yeah, absolutely. I actually, interesting enough. So my wife, who you've met Kayla, when I was doing this whole cold plunge thing, she, she never really got into to cold plunging. I kind of.

[Gary Brecker]

Mine took a solid two years.

[Kyle]

Yeah, right on the, right on that timeline. Yeah, that's about right.

[Gary Brecker]

So, hey guys, let me tell you about one of my favorite new hydration drinks. Now, this is for distance athletes, hits, cardio exercisers, people that sweat a lot or exercise intensely. And a game is a hydration drink. It has eight essential vitamins. It has all of the electrolytes, the entire suite of B vitamins. Mineral. Before you freak out and read that, it has 21 grams of sugar, which it does. The sugar is coming from natural cane sugar and honey, my preferred mechanisms for getting glucose into the blood during intense exercise. It also has natural flavors, but these natural flavors don't come from bacterial fermentation. They actually come from real citrus fruits. And the color is from vegetable juice, not artificial dyes. So next time you're looking for a great hydration drink and you're exercising intensely, a game is your choice. Now let's get back to the ultimate human podcast.

[Kyle]

You know, for me, you know, it was more like a hoorah, you know, get in there, hard thing to do, you know, that kind of thing. And so that's why, you know, she'd see me do that, and she's like, I'm not doing that. I don't need any of that stuff. So until, you know, about a year ago, she ended up getting like a health coach. And one of the things that she particularly was, was. Was challenged with was she had high cortisol, and she tended to maybe just say mismanaged stress in that sense. Right. And so because of the high cortisol, because of the high stress, when more stress would come on situations, it'd be very high stressful, and she'd have a hard time managing that. And so one of the recommendations that her coach, you know, gave to her was, hey, have you considered cold plunging? She's like, well, funny enough, you know, I've got access to one. So she started to cold plunge regularly, and there was a absolute massive change in her behavior. And I think the reason why, which. Which I've actually come to learn a lot more about this, even just being in this space, is, yes, it's one of those hard things to do, which is probably one of my favorite benefits from it. People talk about the science and the benefits and the mental and, and the inflammation and all those things, which are great things, but for me, it's very difficult to do, and I do it every single morning. And so doing that very hard thing in the morning is just. There's nothing else. It sets me up for my day. And, and, and that doesn't get talked about enough because there's, there's, there's, there's really something to be said about doing difficult things. Like you said, kind of pursuing the discomfort to where then when stuff comes at you, you just feel like you got it.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah, doing them early. Doing the difficult things. Early, difficult things. Early morning is hard. Your day will be easy.

[Kyle]

Exactly. And so to go deeper into that though, but one of the things that I found very interesting was, and I didn't really learn about this really until this past year or two is, you know, when you go into a cold plunge, everyone talks about it. I think even one of your listeners might have asked a question about this. You know, hey, it's, it's so hard to get past that first 30, 60 seconds, that shock. I want to get out, I want to get out. And we experience this, you know, we see a lot of first time cold plungers come in and they want to just jump in and jump out. And when you jump into a cold plunge, as you know, you, you know, you go into a fight or flight response state, you go into that sympathetic state, you forget to breathe and you're pretty much, you know, your body is thinking, okay, I need to kick in because I'm gonna die. Right. Your brain knows you're just in a cold plunge, but your body is, is telling you something is off. And so doing that. And then we know that if you get past that 30 seconds, 60 seconds, 90 seconds marker, it's different for everybody. And you get on to that kind of parasympathetic state where your heart down, you start to find calm, you start to find peace, you start to find that balance again. And then all of a sudden everything's okay. You can actually stay in that cold punch at that point for probably as long as you want. Really. We don't recommend anything past a couple minutes, but it's a lot easier at that point. And what I learned was that there's actually a lot of data behind that transition of going from sympathetic to parasympathetic and actually training the nervous system to combat and activate in the normal world. And so, and so, so for my wife, I've seen that transformation where, you know, those same situations will come up or those challenging things can come up and it can be very stressful. But it's not that same level of stress or that same reactivity that's there because you've trained the mind, you've trained the nervous system that, hey, stress is coming, it's coming. I'm going to go through it. I know I'm going through it now on the back end of this. I know there's kind of a smooth sailing coming. And I think that's, that's a very powerful thing because there's a lot of people who deal with high stress, high cortisol. That's, that's a very challenging.

[Gary Brecker]

Totally agree with you. There's actually fascinating, well documented in the literature. It's called the mammalian dive reflex. And the mammalian dive reflex is germane to all mammals. And when mammals dive, whales, dolphins, when they actually dive in the ocean, as the water temperature cools and it's passing over their face, it shifts them from a sympathetic to a parasympathetic state and actually reduces their heart rate, calms them down. So you can actually capture this benefit by putting your face in the water when you first get in, either dunking or splashing cold water on your face will activate the mammalian dive reflex and actually make the cold plunge easier.

[Kyle]

Yeah.

[Gary Brecker]

And that's well documented in the literature. You can look up the mammalian dive reflex. It's a, it's a, it's a well known reflex that's germane to all mammals. So that's essentially what's, what's happening there. And if I can't.

[Kyle]

If I can. We are more or less scientific saying every of everything you just explained is we have a saying. It's called I don't count if you don't dunk. And. Oh, okay, that's our lesson.

[Gary Brecker]

You don't do the mammalian dive reflex.

[Kyle]

Yeah, exactly.

[Gary Brecker]

Actually shout out to Andrew Huberman because he was the first one that said. I was like, that sounds a little. I started looking it up. I was like, all right, he's fairly wrong. So he was right again. But so, so talk a little bit about time.

[Kyle]

Yeah.

[Gary Brecker]

Temperature, because that's the big one, is like, should it be 35 degrees and I do 15 minutes, it'd be, you know, 60 degrees and I do five minutes. You know, I'd love to hear your, your, your thoughts on that.

[Sam]

Yeah, I mean, we, we've heard it from yourself and from the research we've done. There's no studies that say the colder the better.

[Gary Brecker]

Right.

[Sam]

So we always recommend people when they're starting, you know, the machine goes down to 37 degrees Fahrenheit.

[Gary Brecker]

Right.

[Sam]

I myself rarely cold plunge at 37 degrees.

[Gary Brecker]

That's brutal, man.

[Sam]

Unless I'm having a rough day and I want to do something extremely extreme, we do it. We generally recommend around 48 to 55 degrees. Perfect. And we tell everybody, start at one to two minutes and get your body used to it, don't go in there at 37 degrees and try to do it for five minutes. You know, we have people reach out to us that say, oh, I did it for 10 minutes yesterday at 40 degrees. What should I do next? And we're like, actually, you can get the full benefits. Just doing 10 to 14 minutes a week, breaking it, you know, breaking it down to two to three minutes a day, even just four to five days a week. So, you know, if people don't want to do a cold poncha first, start off with a cold shower, start doing it for 30 seconds, 60 seconds, get obviously as cold as it possibly can. I think cold showers, in my opinion, are actually harder than a cold plunge because part of your body's wondering what's going on. The other half wonder what's going on.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah, it's like. Yeah, it's like being in line of the torture. You know, you're next. You see it coming.

[Sam]

I hate not having a cold punch because then I feel obligated to do my cold shower, and I'm like, this is miserable. I would rather be sitting all the way up to my neck in a cold plunge. Yeah, but that's kind of the quick breakdown that we explain to everybody. I mean, a lot of our customers always ask for our advice, and we always say, like, if you want to go down to 37 in a few months and you feel like you can handle it, wear the footies for your feet, you know, to keep your feet warm at least. Yeah. But, yeah, we always suggest people, you.

[Gary Brecker]

Know, the same thing. 48 to 50 to 55 degrees, three minutes minimum, six minutes maximum. You get all the benefits. I mean, of all the literature, and I've exhaustively gone through the literature, and, you know, if you think about it, when you get a peripheral vasoconstriction and you constrict, if you actually keep reducing the temperature, it doesn't constrict any harm. Harder.

[Sam]

Right.

[Gary Brecker]

It doesn't like that. It's not. Once you make a fist as tight as you can make it, if you keep putting it in colder water, you're not going to make a tighter fist. Right. So you're not going to increase their peripheral vasoconstriction. What I found fascinating, which, not to completely jump topics, but the more I study the human body, the more I believe in God. Because when you look at the intelligence, the, the, the architecture of what happens if you really break this down, you get into a cold punch, you get this peripheral vasoconstriction, but it vasoconstricts in a very specific physiologic pattern. It shuttles blood, shuttles the blood first to the brain. That's the first organ to receive the blood right up through the carotid arteries. Then it shuttles the blood to the heart and then out to the lungs. More than everything else. And if you think about the intelligence of that, you know, let's say you're walking on the ice and you're by yourself. You break through the ice, now you're in 38 degree water, you're alone, you have no resources. What is the body going to do in that situation? I mean, it has no external resources. Listen, there's what I share on this podcast and then there's what I share with my inner circle. If you've been following me for a while, you know how I hold nothing back here but my VIP community. That's where the real magic happens. Picture this. You're struggling with energy crashes, brain fog, or just feeling like you're not operating at your peak and you don't know where to get real answers. But here's what really sets this apart part. You're not just getting my insights. When I have incredible guests on the podcast, VIP members get to submit questions for a private podcast segment. So that world renowned expert we just interviewed, you get exclusive access to their knowledge tailored to your specific situation. This section is under the private podcast section in the ultimate human community. And speaking of exclusive, you're getting my personal protocols, the exact tools I use for water fasting, gut optimization, and morning routines that have taken me decades to perfect. This isn't theory. This is what works in the real world. The community launches challenges throughout the year where you get direct access to me and my network of experts. It's like having a personal health advisory board for less than $100 a month. Your health is your wealth. And this investment pays dividends for Life. Join the VIP community at theultimatehuman.com VIP and step into your ultimate potential. Now, let's get back to the ultimate human podcast. So, first thing, preserve the brain. Second, heart. Third, lungs. And if you think about that sequence, I mean, if this goes out, nothing matters. This stops me, nothing else.

[Kyle]

You're done.

[Gary Brecker]

And then these are not working. But you can, you can tolerate those in that sequence, right? And then, you know, after it does that, it starts this entire physiologic cascade to prepare you to best get out of that situation. Release of cold shock proteins. I think one of the most fascinating areas of clinical research now is in cold Shock proteins. We're just scratching the surface of these fascinating proteins that are locked up in the liver. There's a few of them, LIN28A and LIN28B, that are being investigated for improving insulin sensitivity and decreasing insulin resistance. Scouring the blood of free radical oxidation. So if you think about that and then releasing norepinephrine. Say, say it.

[Sam]

That's nor. Norepinephrine. Don't ask how many times I try to learn that word.

[Gary Brecker]

He was practicing it before the podcast. We need one of those out of the screen right here. Like nor, N O R E epi, nephron.

[Sam]

I was on Google having it say it to me while pacing in the hallway. I was like, come on, Sam.

[Kyle]

I told him, I said the porcupine one started with an end. You know that one. There you go.

[Gary Brecker]

What if you think about it, what does that do? Widens your field of vision, makes your hearing more, makes you more alert, focused, concentrated. Increases your short term processing speed. Why? Because you got to survey the environment around you, got to critically be able to think and, and to me, it's even understanding the physiologic mechanisms. It's a, it's a, it's an eerie form of meditation because I'm one of those folks and you with an ADHD background probably fall in the same category that has a very difficult time quieting my mind.

[Sam]

Yes.

[Gary Brecker]

Like to just sit, be still. Like my wife and I play the silent game. I last 30 seconds. Like Sage could go three days. Right, right. But I'm like, I need to say something, you know, And I've tried guided meditation, but dude, when you're in a cold plunge, your mind is not, you're not nowhere else. What did I get? Everything on my grocery list. I wonder if I return that email. You know, you're not thinking about your Instagram post. You're like highly present.

[Kyle]

Yes.

[Gary Brecker]

And so good. And I think that, you know, that aspect of getting out and just being so clear, you know?

[Kyle]

Yeah.

[Gary Brecker]

It's like, what an amazing way to start your day.

[Kyle]

Yes.

[Gary Brecker]

And, and the fact that we can tap into this every day, God gives us an endless amount of this resource.

[Kyle]

Right.

[Gary Brecker]

And I always tell people, look, we're trying to call, we're trying to cold shock the body, not cold adapt the body.

[Kyle]

Very important.

[Gary Brecker]

That's why I say not hanging out in cold water forever is not a great idea. In fact, when I, I was a mortality researcher for years, and when I started in the mortality space when I was born in 1970, Eskimos had the shortest life expectancy of any race, really. They lived at the polls. Very little sunlight, very little vitamin D3.

[Kyle]

Wow.

[Gary Brecker]

Very high fat with high carbohydrate diet. And they were called adaptive. So, you know, they were learning. Their body was adapting to the cold, so it was adding adipose layers. It was increasing the amount of visceral. So this is one of those tools that you throw in the arsenal. You know, you. You use it to. For its advantages and don't overuse it and don't abuse it.

[Kyle]

Exactly.

[Gary Brecker]

And it can just really be exactly. Integral part of your day. So time, you know, temperature, are. Are big ones.

[Kyle]

Yep.

[Gary Brecker]

And so what about people that have, you know, renowns or people with heart conditions? There was one question in here. There was a very specific question she was asking about. We'll get to that in the, in the VIP community. Okay. Um, but do you find, um. Are you finding a wider adoption of. Of cold plunge outside of like, the hardcore crossfitter, like, you know, go rocker, the, you know, high rocks racer. I get that community.

[Kyle]

Of course. Yeah. They were the first adopters. We call them early.

[Sam]

I feel like a lot of people in their midlife crisis that are trying to turn their life around.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah.

[Sam]

Honestly, just trying to live healthier, want to live longer. People that are working a normal 9 to 5 corporate job or people that, you know, are.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah, we actually did cold plunge challenge.

[Kyle]

Yeah.

[Gary Brecker]

On the ultimate. That's right. Thousands of people. You guys can. Gave away a couple.

[Kyle]

We did.

[Gary Brecker]

And the family that won, we, We. We gave it to them because they, they brought the whole family over and they created this. I think they used. Remember those old plastic pools that you got in as a kid? They were like kitty pool, baby pool.

[Sam]

Yeah.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah. So they filled it full heights and the entire family got it.

[Kyle]

Incredible.

[Gary Brecker]

Like the kids, the uncles, the, the.

[Kyle]

The.

[Gary Brecker]

Her parents, they looked like they were easily in their late 70s.

[Kyle]

Wow.

[Gary Brecker]

And I was like, you guys deserve it.

[Kyle]

They deserve it. Wow. That's incredible.

[Gary Brecker]

My nieces do it and they're 7 and 10.

[Kyle]

So. Good.

[Gary Brecker]

So I, I think it's becoming a really cool way to even build community, you know?

[Kyle]

Yes.

[Gary Brecker]

Like here in Miami. I love this. Coffee and chill.

[Kyle]

Yes.

[Gary Brecker]

You know where. Yes. You walk into these parties and you would think if. If you didn't know any different that it was like any other south beach rager.

[Kyle]

Yeah.

[Gary Brecker]

You know, that's dj.

[Kyle]

Yeah. Party beautiful.

[Gary Brecker]

People like, you know, but it's like, safe. Everyone's sober, everyone's networking.

[Kyle]

Yeah. Yep.

[Gary Brecker]

And I love seeing that trend. I mean, because people are realizing, man, there's so many ways to feel really good without drugs.

[Kyle]

Yes.

[Sam]

And the community side is one of our favorite things about this.

[Kyle]

Yes. The community side is incredible. Coffee. Coffee and chill, specifically. You know, we've, we've partnered with them and that's really been a part of that way that we've been able to really get involved with the community, you know, outside of obviously selling the products. But you know, we're now in Miami, Austin, Louisiana.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah, they're kind of franchise all over.

[Kyle]

The place and, and they, you know, so if you've talking about access and accessibility for any of those markets, definitely go check out a coffee and chill. Especially if you don't, you know, have a place to put one of our products or the money or whatever it is, you can go there for 20, 30 bucks and have a great time, meet great people. Yeah. And go get started in cold plunging. Also. Fantastic way to just do a first cold plunge.

[Sam]

Yeah.

[Kyle]

Because there's nothing like getting into the water.

[Gary Brecker]

Well, you have the peer pressure, right? Yeah.

[Kyle]

You got six.

[Sam]

You're doing.

[Gary Brecker]

There's a bunch of hot chicks standing around. You're like, I'm getting in here.

[Kyle]

Oh, this is great.

[Gary Brecker]

I love this.

[Kyle]

Try to be all stoic looking and everything. No, but it's incredible for that part of it. We love being a part of those communities and, and honestly, honestly, a lot of those types of communities are growing all over the place. I mean, we sell, you know, a product to those communities, the party plunge. And those products go all over the country. I mean, I would probably say any given weekend, there's got to be at least 10 or 20 events happening across the country all over the place.

[Gary Brecker]

It's so crazy to hear that, man.

[Sam]

None of them are involved with alcohol. It's all coffee, cold plunges, health and wellness stuff. And they're selling out almost all of them.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah.

[Kyle]

Yeah. Another, another thing to touch on though, because I just want to say earlier you mentioned, you know, access and you know, we're a big component of just get started. Right. If there's a cold shower or you want to have a DIY set up, or if you don't want to have anything at your house, go to a gym. You know, we're, we, we as our company, we're in over 200, I think, locations. And so whether it's a cold life plunge you're going to or another, you know, whatever, go find any gym that's carrying this stuff. But gyms and, and Wellness centers and clinics and yoga studios and contrast therapy place are popping off like they never have before. I guarantee you for all the listeners, if you go to Google right now and type in cold plunge near me, there's probably one pretty close, Pretty close to you.

[Sam]

Yeah.

[Kyle]

You know, and you can do it. Yeah. Free trial. Or, or it's low cost, you know, to go out there and try.

[Gary Brecker]

I tell people, look, if you got a bathtub, just, just take Tupperware containers, put them in your freezer, freeze them, take the big blocks, ice, throw them in your tub. You'll, you know, sometimes those will last two, three days even.

[Kyle]

Yeah, they will.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah. It's a good way to, you know, just get yourself into, you know, you, you, you bite the bullet and decide to commit to it. And I think once people commit and it becomes a regular part of their life, then they're like Dana White and all. When they travel, they ship the cold plunge. Wahlberg is the same way. Crazy. I guess he didn't disclose he's a now a shareholder.

[Kyle]

And we can welcome, welcome Mr. Mark Wahlberg to the cold.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah, I remember when he sent me, I, I, I sent him out. Well, we sent him out one and then he sent me back to the, the video. He's like, dude, love this.

[Kyle]

I'll tell you what, man. There is, there is probably at the search far and wide to try to find somebody who would beat the consistency of Mr. Walberg.

[Sam]

4:00Am Club Man.

[Kyle]

Every day at 4:00 clock in the morning before the sun is up, that man is inside of a cold plunge.

[Sam]

Which is extremely before he arrives to a new city, he, he makes sure he has one waiting for him the next day. He doesn't miss a day.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah, yeah. I, I, I, I send him videos sometimes and like mess because like if I'm in a different time zone and I know that maybe I beat him up, like, you know, like there's no, I'm not in the gym for him. Sorry, Mark. And yeah, so the other day, I'm in my, I'm in my cold. I mean, I'm in my hyperbaric chamber. I'm actually rowing. I sent him a video. I'm like, get out of bed, you know, what did you do this morning, you lazy bum? And he text me back and he's like, just got off my knees from thanking God for everything I'm grateful for. All right, you win, dude. You win.

[Kyle]

You got it.

[Gary Brecker]

I thought I was, I thought I was cool.

[Kyle]

Exactly.

[Gary Brecker]

So, so these you you see now, you know, before I think like you were talking about, this was a trend fad, sort of gimmicky, if you, if you will. It's kind of like a cool thing. It was almost like a tick tock challenge. What was the big challenge that went.

[Kyle]

Around where everybody was ice bucket thing.

[Gary Brecker]

That was for als. And I think that really caught on, which was really cool. I did the ice bucket challenge and. But it's not a gimmick.

[Kyle]

No.

[Gary Brecker]

Right. And I think that, you know, when you look at things that have been around for sustained periods of time, like I say this all the time about medicine. You know, when you look at acupuncture, for example, it's been around for 5,000 years.

[Kyle]

Yeah.

[Gary Brecker]

Why do you think it's lasted 5,000 years? Because it works. Yeah. Right. So, okay, maybe we don't have the peer reviewed randomized clinical trial that we have for X or Y or Z, but these people have been doing the same thing in the same points with the same results for 5,000 years. I feel like cold punching, cold exposure is one of those things that is going to still be mainstream 5,000 years from now.

[Kyle]

Yes.

[Gary Brecker]

Because I find that it works. Yes. And in your experience, when people get into this game, what kind of, what kind of feedback are you getting? Feedback like, this is too much for me. I'm sending this thing back, or this is changing.

[Kyle]

This is probably the easiest way to explain it in a nutshell. You know, we have sold thousands of units. And I will say this very truthfully and candidly on both of Sam and I's hands.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah.

[Kyle]

We cannot, we can, we can count the amount of returns that we've had inside.

[Sam]

And a few of those is simply because it didn't fit.

[Kyle]

And honestly, probably 80 of those. Yeah. Fit on their balcony or something crazy. So very, very, very dedicated customers and community. I mean, once you go into this thing, you're not going back. You're not going to get started in cold plunging and make this a daily part of your routine or a weekly part of your routine or whatever it may be, because it's just, it's like you said, it works. You know, and so when you feel.

[Sam]

Good about yourself, you feel proud you did something hard. And we, we hear it all the time. People end up buying one for their second home because they, they hate not having it at their vacation or the.

[Kyle]

Other friend or for their, for their cousin or for their wife or for somebody like, hey, I need to get this person cold plunging. You know, they're going through this depressive state or they're going through this health thing or whatever it is, like. Like, get it. You know, they'll call us. Can you get them as fast as possible? You know, ship it to him tomorrow kind of thing?

[Gary Brecker]

Is that wild that, you know, so, you know, we define depression in this country as an inadequate supply of serotonin.

[Kyle]

You know, I've.

[Gary Brecker]

We've always said in the addiction space, when I was in the mortality space, that the absence of dopamine was the presence of addiction. You know, addicts weren't really seeking a high. They were seeking normalcy. Right. They didn't wake up one day and go, I want to get really banged up. Up.

[Kyle]

Yeah.

[Gary Brecker]

I woke up one day and said, I want to feel normal.

[Kyle]

Yeah.

[Gary Brecker]

It's like you with Adderall. Right. Your first time taking Adderall, you weren't like, man, I just want to get high. I want to. I. I just want that buzz. I want that, you know, amphetamine hammer. You're trying to feel normal.

[Sam]

Yeah.

[Gary Brecker]

Bouncing around all over the place, and you just wanted to feel normal. And I think that's where most people begin their journey to addiction is the search for normalcy. And I think what this gives people is a way to do that with a lot of beneficial consequences. Instead of having that cliff, like, kind of right behind you that, you know, you're running from a low.

[Kyle]

Yeah.

[Gary Brecker]

Not running towards.

[Kyle]

Exactly.

[Gary Brecker]

Which I commend you a lot because getting off Adderall and amphetamines is. Is one of the most difficult because, again, not because it makes you feel banged up. It's because without it, you don't feel normal.

[Sam]

I was a slob.

[Kyle]

Yeah.

[Sam]

I couldn't get anything done, and, you know, I blep.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah. I mean, so how. How was that struggle for you? And do you. Do you ever think about.

[Sam]

Oh, no. I think it's been just about four years now that I haven't taken one.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah.

[Sam]

Never going back. The side effects are not worth it either. The best part about the cold plunge is there's no crash. You know, four to six hours at minimum. I feel phenomenal. I'm focused. I have attention. Compared to taking medication like Adderall or Vyvanse. I was on both of them.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah. And your girlfriend's gone. When's the coming. It's probably about two hours away right now.

[Sam]

Right. Literally. And I'd be doing too much at once or, you know, I'd be dusting my fan instead of doing something productive. I would just have me all over the place. You know, I'd be cleaning my shoes that didn't need me to be cleaned, but I wasn't doing something actually productive. I need to get done.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah.

[Sam]

And it's crazy. Over the last few years, now that I've been off Adderall, and I love sharing my story, a lot of people are currently starting to identify that there's more cons than pros to taking that type of medication.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah.

[Sam]

And in particular, too, I was a hothead. So it was affecting me in business relationships, my family. And it was. It was a struggle. But that was the biggest problem was I would try to get off it, but I didn't have another solution to fall on. So I would. Immediately after two days, if I couldn't get anything from the pharmacy, I'd be contacting people, hey, can I. Can I get an Adderall? Just to get by for a day or two until I got my subscription, my refill. And a lot of people are like that. It's hard to admit it because it's an addiction that you don't want to admit that weakness.

[Kyle]

Yeah.

[Sam]

So when I found the. The cold therapy, being able to substitute that, I was like, this is phenomenal, because even if I don't have a cold plunge, I can do a cold shower. And sometimes I was doing, like, two cold showers a day until I had a cold plunge in my place. Just to get by.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah.

[Sam]

And then when you live somewhere where it's cold, you know, a lot of our customers, they are on the fence. They don't want to spend the money yet. It's like, earn it for yourself. Earn that reward of a cold life. Cold plunge. Where do you live? You're in Minnesota. You got a hot tub? Don't turn the hot tub on. Use that as your cold punch. Yeah, you already got it. You already got the body of water.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah. Sometimes up there, the water comes out nice and cold in the winter, too.

[Sam]

Exactly, exactly. So we always suggest that the people, too, like, we're from Atlanta. The Chattahoochee river is like. Like 40 degrees all year round.

[Gary Brecker]

Oh, is it really?

[Sam]

Yeah, all year round. So when we. When I was in high school, you know, we'd go there and, you know, do stu. Stupid stuff and maybe get in the water for, like, 30 seconds to swim across the. The river. And little did I know what benefits I had in there. And back then, you might see, like, one guy that I thought was crazy, like, laying in the cold water, and I'm wondering what he's doing. But now any natural body of water, you go to. Especially in the winter time. It's so normal now.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah.

[Sam]

And now there's all these movements from the communities to the polar plunges. People are doing club in Austin, Texas. They have that, that area that's like a really cold body of water that people go to all the time.

[Kyle]

Yeah.

[Sam]

I mean, it's very fascinating seeing how normalized it's becoming.

[Gary Brecker]

What are some of the. What are some of the customer feedback stories, testimonials that come in to you guys that you find to be really. I mean, getting off ADD or.

[Sam]

Yeah, you got to share one of the most recent ones.

[Kyle]

There's so many good ones. I wish we had more time to share them all. But there's. There's one that, that sticks out to me. We have a customer who is battling stage four cancer and he. I, I had the opportunity to actually talk to him himself. There was something up with his delivery or something, so somehow it got brought up to me and so I just. Talking to the customer, how'd you find us? What's going on? You know, what's your story? And come to find out he's battling stage four cancer. And you know, I'm not going to sit here and say cold plunges, cures cancer because he's certainly still, still going through that. But, but to me, especially for the reason why I do the cold plunge, which is like, it's a hard thing to do. It's the mental benefits. It's that clarity I get coming out of it. But for me, I get that win for the day. That's when I do that cold plunge, I'm checked off. I got my win. I feel very great about myself. For me, in the days where I'm slacking or I don't want to do it or I get up into that cold water. This was probably a few months ago now, I talked to that customer and it is still. It is the first thing that comes to mind thinking there is a man that's battling stage four cancer who struggles to get out of bed every single morning, who has aches and pains and is throwing up and is doing fear, going through the worst of worst and the fear that it's all about to come over and that man is getting in through a cold plunge every single day. And yeah, it's just, it's. It's insanely inspiring to, to see customers that have that level of commitment and, and a lot of our customers and.

[Sam]

Veterans with ptsd, all kinds of stuff. It's crazy. We hear from veterans that are in their 60s that are like, this is completely calmed me down, helped my anxiousness, and just in general, helps me get by on days that used to be challenging. And it's been like one after one after one. And for me, I've connected with multiple people in their 50s or 60s that are my. My dad's age, and they're all like, you know, your story about Adderall is remarkable. I hate to admit it, but I'm. I drink like eight coffees a day. I don't want to take a medication, but I drink a ton of caffeine. I do this, I do this, and I'm a slug. And now that I've invested into a cold life, cold plunger, like, I'm performing better than ever. I feel younger.

[Kyle]

Yeah.

[Sam]

And the confidence I even have as a man, you know, a lot of people lack, you know, self confidence. They're like, it's elevated my own confidence within myself because I used to be weak, and I, you know, I needed to find something to overcome that weak feeling. And as a man, you want to feel, you know, like an alpha. Alpha man. And a lot of guys can't feel.

[Gary Brecker]

Alpha when you get out. Not so much when you get out.

[Sam]

You don't feel like an alpha man when you get in there.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sam]

Especially when we got an audience. Like, we know we're the cold punch founders. Like, we have a game.

[Gary Brecker]

You gotta remain calm. You're like, yeah, sit here. See?

[Sam]

And it's.

[Gary Brecker]

It's not that bad.

[Sam]

Breathe. You gotta breathe.

[Gary Brecker]

You're like, I'm dying. So where do you guys fall in the. The contrast therapy? You know, there's, There's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of folks out there, and there's a lot, a lot of. Of, you know, gyms and wellness and recovery centers that are now using the contrast therapy. What have you found works? What have you found doesn't work. Where do you find in the.

[Kyle]

Contrast has always been an interesting one because I think it's. It's quite. It's. It's. It's quite personal and different in the sense that cold plunge, to me, at least, has a relatively specific outcome you're trying to achieve. Right.

[Gary Brecker]

For.

[Kyle]

For me, it's the mental stuff. It's the hard thing. For some others, it's recovery coming from the gym. For some others, it's inflammation. Right. Everyone, I feel like, kind of has their. Their main reason why they're getting into the cold points, but for contrast, to me, contrast is almost more therapeutic, you know, than a recovery aspect. Of it. You know, you're going from, you know, you. You could probably explain the science behind the constricted blood vessels and then them opening up very quickly. And so you're doing that back and forth, back and forth. For me, personally, on my own, on my own journey, I actually fell in love with contrast therapy. My wife and I, once a year, our big thing is we would go to Asheville. There's a place there called the Omni Grove Park Inn. And it's like a big old, you know, kind of castle thing in Nashville, North Carolina.

[Gary Brecker]

Beautiful area.

[Kyle]

That's a gorgeous, gorgeous, gorgeous hotel. And it's in the mountains, and it's beautiful. And they have a spa that's actually in, like, the basement. And then it looks out on the mountains, and it's just beautiful. But they had these areas, and in this area, it's a cold plunge, it's a hot tub, it's a steam room, and it's a sauna. And actually, right during COVID when Covid was all happening, we got a chance to go up there, and I didn't know if I had covert. I was sick, whatever. And we were there, and I started feeling, like, awful. I mean, horrible. And I was taking, you know, anything I could was going online, taking all the Z packs, and whatever I could get my hands on, I was taking. Couldn't feel better. It was just the worst couple days. Go and do contrast therapy for, like, two and a half hours. And I came out of there and I literally felt like an absolute new person. Like, I felt, like, better than I did before. And I was like, oh, my gosh, this is the best thing ever. Why is nobody talking about this more often? Yeah.

[Gary Brecker]

Yeah.

[Kyle]

And that really lit me up. So for me, I. I love contrast therapy. I don't think it, for me, is something that I'd recommend doing daily because it's one of those therapeutic things. To me. I kind of put it in, like, the massage category and that in that sense, and my own personal view, however, if you are doing it it daily or you're doing it more often, the one thing I will say is that I do highly recommend you end on cold.

[Sam]

Yes.

[Kyle]

You don't want to end on and on cold.

[Sam]

Yes.

[Gary Brecker]

I agree with that. Guys, this has been amazing. I've got a whole list of questions for you from my VIP community. So I have a special community that. This is my community I've been building for the last few years called the VIP community. So I always spend private time with them. So we're going to go into a little private room now. They've got a bunch of questions for you guys. For the rest of you guys, if you're interested in joining the the ultimate human VIP community, you can go over to theultimatehuman.com forward/vip sign up. You get private podcasts, you get one on one private coaching with me, when we do it in a group setting, we have a course in there called Becoming the Ultimate Human Version of Yourself. You meet great guys like Kyle and Sam. Until next time, that's just science.