Dr. Labib Ghom (3:10)

Thank you, Gary. Thank you. I'm so ready excited for round two of the discussion.

Gary Brecka (3:14)

Discussion, yeah, so am I. And ironically, we both live in Miami.

Dr. Labib Ghom (3:17)

Exactly. Yeah. So I don't know, it's a sign we should do it again.

Gary Brecka (3:21)

I don't know why we did the podcast in Saudi Arabia. We had to go halfway around the world. But we were both at the Xenos Longevity Summit. Was amazing. Summit. I mean, that side of the world is really waking up to wellness, longevity. It's just astounding what's going on over there with development and their commitment to health and wellness and keeping people out of the system. But I really enjoyed the podcast and I felt like we were just getting into the meat and then we had to cut the time short. So I'm really excited to run this with you today. You know, I remember you talking about this pregnancy being a thousand days of pregnancy, you know, the 365 days plus another 700 days. And you know, I, I'm, I'm concerned about, you know, fertility rates, the, the drop in sperm counts. You know, when, when I was at a Maha recent meeting recently and they were Talking about the 1% year over year reduction in sperm count, 2% year over year reduction in fertility rates. And you start to combine these statistics. 1% doesn't sound like a big deal until you realize, okay, well, in 10 years we're down 10%.

Dr. Labib Ghom (4:33)

Yes.

Gary Brecka (4:33)

In sperm count and another possibly 20% in fertility. And what do you think is the biggest contributor to these things?

Dr. Labib Ghom (4:43)

Well, I think lifestyle is absolutely a risk factor for how sperm counts are dropping. If you look at the sperm count dropping and at the same time you see, for example, the production of plastic and other chemicals is going up. So one curve is coming down, one is going up. I mean, it's probably a contributing factor, maybe not the only factor, but there is something there. There is fire happening. The sperm counts are dropping. And also we can, we're seeing more miscarriages we're seeing more couples going to, you know, artificial reproductive technologies like ivf, not only.

Gary Brecka (5:19)

And it's not an easy process.

Dr. Labib Ghom (5:21)

Yes, it is. It is a complicated process. But today there's, you know, more advanced technology that would probably make it easier on couples. But again, it is time consuming, it's stressful, it would cause anxiety. And then plus you have the woman grow, go through testing, injections, the retrieval process and all of that. And then, of course, then you have the pregnancy, which could sometimes be twins and triplets and, you know, which are, which makes things more complicated.

Gary Brecka (5:49)

Yeah, you can't get pregnant. Then all of a sudden it's like, bam, there's three for you.

Dr. Labib Ghom (5:52)

Exactly. So a lot of people criticize and say, oh, people are going to IVF very quickly and not being patient, but there is more infertility out there, so.

Gary Brecka (6:02)

Right.

Dr. Labib Ghom (6:02)

And I think you mentioned the thousand days. Yes, the pregnancy is usually 280 days, 40 weeks, but I call it the thousand days because there's the before, which is super important, and then the pregnancy itself, the 2 8, and then the first two years of life, which I think dictates a lot of our biology and how we're going to become, you know, later on if we're going to develop diseases. So even the first two years of life, whether you're being breastfed, whether, depending on what you're eating, what are you being exposed to in the first two years of life, your epigenetics will change. And this is where the biology is, you know, programmable in the best way. Of course we can change things later on, but the earlier you do it, the better you're going to be able to cope with life and the stresses of life.

Gary Brecka (6:48)

And yeah, you know, I have this theory that in this whole longevity, biohacking, anti aging movement, what I've seen is kind of an underlying theme nobody really talks about, is a lot of what we're doing is just getting back to the basics. Whole food, diet, sleep, mobility, sunlight, grounding, you know, sense of community, sense of purpose. And if couples are listening to this podcast right now, and I really would encourage, especially young couples that are trying to conceive to listen to this. You know, I've, I've two, two kids that are coming into this age. My, my son Cole, he's 25 and he's getting married in September, and he and his fiance have been together a long time and are starting to have this conversation. And, you know, I, I, I know there's a lot of people in their peer group My, my, my daughter's 27 and she's starting to think about this too. So this is something that's very near and dear to my heart. And so for young couples that are listening to this, you know, I think that we think of pregnancy and conception and bir to the, the fetus and the child during this two year period as largely being the woman's role. Right. She gets pregnant, she has the baby, she cares for the baby, she breastfeeds the baby. But I liked what we began to talk about in Saudi because you were really talking about it as a couple's journey and like the contribution that men can make to ensuring or at least increasing the odds that they have really healthy, happy, amazing children with strong immune systems that are really prepared for life's journey. So I wonder if we could back up a little bit from the event of pregnancy and so talk about this road to a healthy pregnancy for, for young couples, men and women.

Dr. Labib Ghom (8:31)

Yeah. I think what your son go is doing is super important. He's, you know, talking about it and preparing for it. And I think you are also excited to become a grandfather, although you don't look like one. But yeah, I think it's not only the parents. The grandparents also get, you know, excited. Excited. And I think, you know, I haven't felt this yet, but I'm sure the feeling of a grandfather or, you know, having son of a son or a daughter of, it's. That's, yeah. Probably gives you the most joy in life.

Gary Brecka (8:58)

And so weird because I never wanted to be a granddad and now I'm like, so excited to be. It just makes me sound old.

Dr. Labib Ghom (9:05)

Yeah, yeah. And feel old. And in Lebanon we say like the, the son of the son is more precious than your son. So I think, you know, the next generation is so important. So that's why I think we need to take care of ourselves before going to that journey. So preparing is super important. And yes, the dad gives half of the genetic material.

Gary Brecka (9:24)

Right.

Dr. Labib Ghom (9:24)

So how come, you know, people say he doesn't have a role? He has a huge role. I think 50% of the genes are from the dad. So therefore it's super important for the dad to be in a good health.

Gary Brecka (9:36)

Right.

Dr. Labib Ghom (9:36)

The problem is like when we're 20, 25, we think we're invincible. Nothing's going on.

Gary Brecka (9:41)

My son doesn't think he can be killed by a bullet. Right.

Dr. Labib Ghom (9:43)

Yeah. So. So we might not be careful. And I think a lot of people just go with the flow, you know, maybe get into drinking, exploring things in life, which is fine. But I think when you're ready for the pregnancy, you need to back up a little bit, go back to the basics, what our ancestors did in the past. Today we're doing the same thing like you said, but maybe with more advanced technology and trying to get results a bit faster. But you know, thinking of your nutrition, your sleep, your energy levels, your focus, all these, if you work on few things and you don't have to work on all of your pillars. And actually this is where I thought about what I call the vitality formula. And for me that's basically a very small, simple approach because people get overwhelmed, I'm fatigued, I'm not healthy, I'm broke.

Gary Brecka (10:33)

Right.

Dr. Labib Ghom (10:33)

And actually those are only signals that your body is telling you about and you need to start working on one of those pillars. If you work on your sleep, your nutrition, all at the same time initially, you might not get good results. So I think starting on one pillar at a time and then maybe stacking them together at some point and that how, that's how you will change your lifestyle. But this should be for men and women because they're uniting their, you know, their gonads and.

Gary Brecka (11:03)

Yeah.

Dr. Labib Ghom (11:03)

And their, their, their, their sperm and their eggs in order to create a human. So you have to prepare.

Gary Brecka (11:09)

Yeah, it's such a, such a miracle. And you know, I, I like some of the simple advice, I want to hit touch on some of those that I know you've spoken about, but moderate exercise, resistance training, something you call the critical window. Six months of consistent exercise actually showing measurable improvements in sperm count, sperm motility, morphology of sperm and reducing DNA fragmentation. So this is like new even for someone like me, that, that male can, a young man can have that much influence over the caliber of his sperm, which obviously is 50% of the way to creating this human life. So, you know, talking specifically to the men, what are some things that young men can do? Stop drinking, probably right off the bat. And then the obvious, drugs, smoking, but you know, maybe limit or discontinue the drinking. But to have the healthiest sperm, you know, you hear, well, you shouldn't get into a hot tub and you know, you probably shouldn't be an ultra endurance athlete, which sadly for my, my son Cole is not a, he's not going to want to hear that he's running 100 miles in like 10 years.

Dr. Labib Ghom (12:21)

This is amazing.

Gary Brecka (12:22)

Yeah, he's doing the 10 Ironmans at the end of the year, but he's. So we'll do it next year. But you know, if, if young men are listening to this, like, what, what are, you know, some simple shifts that they can make to really sort of prepare their body to be producing healthy sperm that, you know, improve the morphology, sperm count, motility.

Dr. Labib Ghom (12:42)

I mean, the sperm is the output of what your endocrine organ, which is the testes, produce. So it's going to reflect a lot of. If there's inflammation in your body, if you're not sleeping well, you know, you have high insulin levels, if you're not hydrated well, all this is going to show up. So for me, sperm count is like, kind of one of the vital signs of our body. I tell a lot of my friends or, like, patients that, you know, get tested, do a sperm count. You can do a home sperm count. I know there's the guidelines. Don't, you know, recommend a certain age? But why not? Why not see where you are? Because you don't want to be surprised later on when you're ready to have kids. Check your sperm count. If it's good, it means you're doing the right things. If it's starting to get worse, maybe you need to look back at your lifestyle and start, you know, changing things. Like you said, hot tubs, putting your laptop on your lap for hours and hours because of all this emission that comes out and the heat. Our cell phones are in our pockets a lot of times. But I think toxins and what we're eating, what we're putting in our bodies are on our skin because, you know, men are using more personal care products today. And so everything can play a role and it accumulates. Those small doses of toxins can accumulate and become cumulative. So you don't have to be poisoned by mercury or lead to get affected. You can have small dosages that can accumulate and cause problems with time. So definitely exercising. We know how much it will decrease the inflammation, improve your insulin, your muscle mass. All this will reflect on what's coming out of your body that's so good, which is sperm.

Gary Brecka (14:23)

Yeah. And in, you know, a lot of women, I'm, I'm, I'm a big fan of genetic methylation testing, and I've been pounding that soapbox for, for years. But there is a correlation between gene mutations in women, especially like mthfr, and frequency of miscarriage and, and even infertility and, and certain birth defects. And I won't say that they're causal, but there's certainly a high correlation. Listen, there's what I share on this podcast, and then there's what I share with My inner circle. If you've been following me for a while, you know how I hold nothing back here but my VIP community. That's where the real magic happens. Picture this. You're struggling with energy crashes, brain fog, or just feeling like you're not operating at your peak and you don't know where to get real answers. But here's what really sets this apart. You're not just getting my insights. When I have incredible guests on the podcast, VIP members get to submit questions for a private podcast segment. So that world renowned expert we just interviewed, you get exclusive access to their knowledge, tailored to your specific situation. This section is under the private podcast section in the Ultimate Human Community. And speaking of exclusive, you're getting my personal protocols, the exact tools I use for water fasting, gut optimization, and morning routines that have taken me decades to perfect. This isn't theory. This is what works in the real world. The community launches challenges throughout the year where you get direct access to me and my network of experts. It's like having a personal health advisory board for less than $100 a month. Your health is your wealth, and this investment pays dividends for Life. Join the VIP community at theultimatehuman.com VIP and step into your ultimate potential. Now let's get back to the ultimate human podcast. So would you recommend that young women get methylation testing and then maybe start to address some of those methylation deficiencies by supplementation or dietary changes?

Dr. Labib Ghom (16:19)

Yeah, I mean, if I answer this question, a lot of people are gonna, you know, also put me in the controversy standpoint. But I do agree fully with you that yes, those could play a role. They're not. Maybe the major thing, if you go by the guidelines today of our, you know, ACOG and other things, they do not recommend to do those on everyone, even with women that have miscarriages. But again, I think it's logical. Yeah, sometimes, you know, the studies, you know, could be not well designed. So you can criticize a lot of those things. If it's a simple test and it can make a difference and the treatment is, you know, folate or changing their diet, why not in certain situations? Yeah. So I wouldn't say test everybody today. I mean, next year, if I come back to your podcast, I might say. I might say differently. But today, based on what data we have, I wouldn't like, screen everyone, but yes, maybe someone with, you know, multiple miscarriages, a family history of neural tube defects. We might, you know, check those, but not across the board. I would definitely supplement them and make sure. You know, they are. Well, their nutrition has, you know, enough folate, choline, omega 3, all these things in order to improve the outcome of the, of the practice.

Gary Brecka (17:34)

Yeah. I'm going to, I'm going to list in the podcast show notes some of the, some of the supplements or at least key nutrients that you talk about for sperm quality. Zinc, selenium, methylated B vitamins, huge fan. Methylfolate, omega 3s, antioxidants like C and E and CoQ10 and lycopene, which is like in tomatoes and watermelons, bell peppers. What's lycopene's role in improving sperm quality? That's kind of a new one.

Dr. Labib Ghom (18:02)

They're also a very potent antioxidant. So, so anything that could lower your oxidation will improve how the DNA or how the sperms, you know, multiply and divide and that will have less fragmentation. Of course the data is not robust on, you know, just like open supplementation, but it comes as part of the, you know, multi nutrient or the rainbow that men and women should eat in order to improve their gametes.

Gary Brecka (18:29)

I love this idea of couples going into this and coming out of this together. Right. I mean I, I have three children and, and I can tell you when, when we had our first child at 27. And you know, I really did view this as really being my wife's role at the time.

Dr. Labib Ghom (18:48)

Yeah.

Gary Brecka (18:48)

And not really realizing the impact that I could have had. And by the grace of God, we had three very healthy children and they're all doing amazing as adults. But you know, I, I wish I'd had this information then because I was already doing some of those things. It was fairly healthy. I wasn't drinking a lot. I was, I was eating a pretty decent diet. But you know, had I, had I known this, I think, you know, it would have been a little different going through this with my wife at the time to as, as a couple, instead of it being such a unilateral journey.

Dr. Labib Ghom (19:19)

Yeah. I think also to simplify things, we, we don't want couples to, to worry much about, about this and cause anxiety. But today, you know, we're, we're living in a toxin and a soup of toxins. So we have to be more careful. Maybe our ancestors didn't worry much about this because they were having healthier food, less processed food, less toxins. But today there's an enemy that's hitting us. So we have to be careful. Men and women, before, during, and then especially after the pregnancy. I think the support from the men helping raise the Kid all the habits that we have, there's a lot of studies if the, if the father is athletic and he likes sports, your kids automatically will, will mimic and will, will see things that you do at home.

Gary Brecka (20:06)

Amazing. Like, so it's like, it's like some kind of genetic programming that absolutely, you know, where characteristics are passed on and even though you can't point to this gene, causes you to have this outcome. If you have this gene, you're going to like sports. If you like to have this gene, you know, you're, you're going to be more cerebral or left brained or right brained. But it is kind of fascinating how characteristics are passed from generation to generation. And I've actually been reading and studying about trauma even being passed from generation to generation embedded in our, you know, our, our, our genetics, which is really fascinating.

Dr. Labib Ghom (20:43)

Trauma, stress, all these, you know, change how our genes are expressing. And if you're pregnant during that time and you're under so much stress, then this could affect, you know, because for, for me, I always say health span starts in the womb, so it even starts before birth. So whatever the mom is feeling, if she's chronically stressed and she's not happy, this will reflect into the blood flow to the placenta and therefore nutrients will be less, you know, given to the baby and then their genes is going to be expressed in a different way. So when they're born, they might be born at a lower weight than they're supposed to be. And this is, is going to, you know, lead to other chronic, maybe diseases later on. So, so yeah, everything is related and the more you read, the more you learn, the less, you know, it's so it's so complicated how the genes interact among each other. We are what our environment is. So I think it's, it goes both way. Whatever we give our environment, it gives us back.

Gary Brecka (21:41)

Yeah.

Dr. Labib Ghom (21:41)

And I think that that relationship we should control because the maternal environment is what the fetal environment is and it's going to be your, your early stages of life and then eventually your adult diseases.

Gary Brecka (21:55)

Yeah.

Dr. Labib Ghom (21:56)

Today we talk a lot about trying to live, you know, longer or healthier, better. And we, most of people start in their 40s or 50s. Oh, today I want to start living better and you know, whatever I've done in the past, forget it. No, I mean, like, I know we have to prepare for our, you know, last 10 years or marginal decades that a lot of experts talk about. This is important. But I think starting early and I see a shift. The new generation, the new generation are More health conscious than what maybe we were. So I'm happy that there's more awareness of that. But simplifying things, not complicating things, not causing anxiety, empowering women and men and couples. Anybody that wants to have a kid, even if you're going through IVF or egg freezing. You want to freeze your eggs.

Gary Brecka (22:44)

Yeah.

Dr. Labib Ghom (22:44)

To maybe later on use them also. You have to go through that process, make sure you're, before you start freezing your eggs. Yes, of course, of course.

Gary Brecka (22:52)

You know, I, I, I, I, I, I, I really love this concept. So, you know, prepping for the pregnancy, then, then you conceive. And where do you fall on supplementation during the actual pregnancy? Methylated multivitamins or, you know, methylated prenatals or non athletic prenatals. I don't want to put words in your mouth. You know, for a woman to be supplementing with during, during that time of pregnancy for adhesion and, and healthy fetal growth. Where do you fall in that?

Dr. Labib Ghom (23:22)

Well, there's a couple of, you know, nutrients that are super important, you know, including iron, for example. I think that's the number one method that, you know, people think about because the placenta needs iron, the baby needs iron.

Gary Brecka (23:35)

You can see it in the color of the placenta.

Dr. Labib Ghom (23:37)

Exactly. And the woman's blood volume almost doubles, you know, during pregnancy, so she becomes a little bit anemic or what we call hemodilution. So you're going to need, you know, more iron for multiple things in pregnancy. So iron is number one. If you are iron deficient or you have an issue with your iron absorption or metabolism, you will have a higher risk of developing a smaller baby. What we call fetal growth restriction. So iron is, is key, especially if you don't get it in your diet or you're not absorbing it well. And then of course, you have the B vitamins, which are basic frameworks for DNA synthesis. You have to have those. Vitamin D. There's a lot of data about vitamin D levels and developing diabetes in pregnancy. Preeclampsia, of course, it's important for the bone. So vitamin D is actually, it's considered like a hormone. So vitamin D is super important. But again, you know, you have to supplement the right amounts. So checking labs, supplementing them with the right dose with a good quality supplement. If you can give them those through a diet, it'll be even better absorbed. But unfortunately the diet is not always available for everyone to, to have the optimal levels in pregnancy. So that's why we have to supplement. So yeah, a good prenatal vitamins that have those, including choline, DHA for brain development. All of those are important today to take the right supplement, I think, in the very near future. And I think there's a couple of companies now working on, like, very specific, tailored prenatal for every single patient. So, for example, a woman might not need that much vitamin D, but she needs more iron, she needs more chlorine. So based on testing on nutrigenomics, we can tailor a specific supplement for, you know, Mrs. X and Mr. X, instead of us taking the same multivitamin across the board.

Gary Brecka (25:27)

Yeah, yeah. That's another thing.

Dr. Labib Ghom (25:28)

I think this is coming very soon. It makes sense.

Gary Brecka (25:31)

Yeah, it makes. It makes a lot of sense.

Dr. Labib Ghom (25:32)

If you don't have, example, the MTHFR mutation, you might not need, let's say, that much folate versus someone who has it, for example.

Gary Brecka (25:40)

Yeah. A lot of sense. So, you know, there I. I've read a lot of literature around vaginal versus cesarean section delivery, and I know there's confusion around this. There's people that fall into both camps. People say it doesn't matter at all. There are OB GYNs, like the one that was or is our clinic director that's a big believer on trying to have a vaginal birth to the extent that you can. And a lot of that has to do with how the fetus is inoculated, you know, through the vaginal canal. Where do you fall in that, you know, conundrum of cesarean versus vaginal birth? And if there was a preference, you know.

Dr. Labib Ghom (26:19)

Well, my straight answer is, the way we're supposed to be born is vaginal. That's how God created us. But, of course, with advancement in science, C section became available. And they do save a lot of lives. They can make a huge difference in certain situations. But the goal is always to try to have a normal delivery. As long as it's safe for the mom and safe for the baby, this is the way to go. Because there's a lot of benefits from the way the baby, you know, moves in the canal, all these cardinal movements of labor, and then eventually the inoculation from the vaginal flora, the skin to skin touching, that happens. There's definitely a lot of benefits. Otherwise, I don't think God would have created us to deliver that way.

Gary Brecka (27:03)

Right, right.

Dr. Labib Ghom (27:04)

I mean, but the C sections have a role, and I think, like I said, they save lives. But the problem is, like, everything in medicine, people abuse them. Hmm. And I think more for convenience. For convenience for the patient. I'm not Talking about doctors, I mean, I've done plenty of C sections, but those were done for indications. But a lot of times the patients would come to use like, I want the C section because I don't want to go through labor. It's a long process. I want to keep my pelvic floor, you know, healthy because I heard vaginal delivery can cause damage to my pelvic floor. And we know if it's done the right way at the right right timing, it will not cause sexual dysfunction or other things. And yes, it is a stressful time. You will rehab eventually your pelvic muscles through special, you know, treatments and therapies with specialists. But it's way less risky than a C section at the end. The C section is a surgery. So there is bleeding, infection, you could injure organs. So we keep C sections when it's needed. And I, you know, my message to people, don't abuse it. Yeah. Not just because you want to deliver on a certain day of the year.

Gary Brecka (28:11)

Yeah, I want to pick the birthday.

Dr. Labib Ghom (28:12)

Yeah.

Gary Brecka (28:13)

I want to deliver on the 16th at 2 o' clock in the afternoon. And you can now.

Dr. Labib Ghom (28:16)

Yeah, that's because one C section after another, it's going to lead to more complications. Now, we know after, let's say a third C section, if you have an issue with your placenta, you can end up having what we call placenta accreta. And that can lead to death and complications. So C sections are great when needed, but our ultimate goal is to deliver normally in a safe way for the mom and for the baby. That's, that's, I, I agree fully with, you know, any physician, and I think this is the oath that we, we swear by to make sure, you know, moms are safe and babies are safe without being heroic and then using the C section when needed.

Gary Brecka (28:55)

Right. You know, and, and, you know, so you go through this birth process and then you have this brand new fetus in the world. For someone that has a birth that was non vaginal, that was through C section, are the things we can do to mitigate some of those consequences of having not had a vaginal birth, like prebiotic or probiotic supplementation or trying to inoculate the baby's, you know, gut flora so they're not so colicky and, and have some of these other, you know, skin conditions and others. Because what's fascinating to me lately is, is, you know, the impact the gut microbiome has even at a fetal level. I mean, we know that adults, when they do long course of antibiotics or Other things to actually destroy their gut flora. They have all kinds of consequences that we don't draw back to the gut. And now we know the importance of the gut microbiome. And so if they miss that inoculation period vaginally, are there ways for, you know, young parents to actually supplement these kids with.

Dr. Labib Ghom (30:04)

I think the first step, the most important first step is to do skin to skin, like put the baby on the mom's skin. And if the mom can't, let's say she's in a C section and it's not feasible sometimes, then the dad. Ah, so even our skin flora can help inoculate. There are, you know, few trials motor doing like inoculating the vaginal flora or meeting the babies. I don't think, you know, there's any, you know, proof yet that it will make a huge difference in the long term. But those are still ongoing studies. But I think starting with the skin, putting the baby even in the C section, they can put the baby on the mom's skin while the obstetrician is finishing the C section. That will help a lot calm the baby's nervous system, you know, because the baby will start hearing the mom's heartbeat, which he or she was hearing when they were in utero. So putting the baby there on the skin would improve breastfeeding chances. Plus they would of course get inoculated by the mom's skin. And then dads can do it. So I'm sure you've seen a lot of pictures of dads putting the kids on, On. On. On their chest. Of course, if they have a lot of hair to, you know, sh. Shave it so that the skin. But touching the skin to skin, that's such a great. So important, like from the first, you know, pheromones. Yes. The first minute or two minutes of life are critical. So as soon as you remove the baby, you put the baby on the mom's skin and a C section or a normal delivery, I think that's one of the first steps that will make a huge difference. Probiotics and other things. I'm not really aware of any, you know, robust studies on that, but it makes sense is to replace, you know, whatever the probiotics needed, but nothing like the probiotics of the mom because her vaginal flora will change based on the trimesters of pregnancy. And then at the time of the delivery, it will be exactly. The composition of her bacteria will be exactly what the baby needs.

Gary Brecka (31:56)

That's so wild.

Dr. Labib Ghom (31:57)

Yeah. So supplementing with probiotics, I don't know which one. You know, I don't think we're there, but maybe in the future we can maybe test the probiotics of the moment and then tailor or create a probiotic specific and give that to the baby maybe.

Gary Brecka (32:13)

Yeah.

Dr. Labib Ghom (32:14)

So all these, all this precision medicine, I think is on the way, but today I think doing the skin to skin immediately is probably the best thing you can do for your kid.

Gary Brecka (32:24)

I am so proud of this pillow and let me tell you why. When I started to do the research on the amount of chemicals, glues, synthetics, volatile organic compounds, jet fuels that you find in pillows and mattresses, it made me sick. And those things actually will show up in your urine. This is not a petroleum based foam pillow. This is organic wool and organic cotton. It is so comfortable. And you can actually change the size by just, by removing some of the wool completely organic. Made right here in the USA. Head over to theultimatesnews.com and start sleeping chemical free tonight. Now let's get back to the ultimate human podcast. So amazing. You know, I had a Harvard scientist on my podcast actually when we were in Dubai. Dubai, and they do, in his laboratory, they do these customized probiotics where they take a stool sample and they culture your, your flora and they look at, you know, the different strains of bacteria and which ones you're deficient in, which ones you have an excess in. And what's really fascinating was how much they could predict about the person having nothing other than their gut flora, their, their, their actual profile of their cut flora. Like, this is somebody who gets seasonal flus more frequently than the average. This is somebody who doesn't have a lot of endurance. This is somebody who is very likely to have skin conditions like eczema, psoriasis. It was incredible the mapping that they've done from specific gut flora, both in excess and in deficiencies, to like these manifestations in, in the real world, you

Dr. Labib Ghom (33:57)

are, you are, you are what you eat. Yeah. And you are what you know, you're surrounded with, you know, your friends, your community, you eventually blend into it. So whatever you're surrounded with becomes you. And I believe the gut is so important and you know, especially in pregnancy because it, there's a lot of, you know, interaction between the gut, the vag, the vagina, the gut and the uterus. And I'm sure there's a gut placental connection somehow, which we still probably don't know about. But this is amazing to be able to, let's say, tailor a specific probiotic, maybe to give to the baby eventually. So maybe we should test pregnant patients and tailor a probiotic for them so that in case they end up with a C section, we give it to the baby. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. That'd be a nice project. You and I, maybe we can create.

Gary Brecka (34:43)

All right, let's do it.

Dr. Labib Ghom (34:45)

So, so probiotic coming soon, guys.

Gary Brecka (34:47)

Yeah.

Dr. Labib Ghom (34:48)

So I think skin to skin is the best thing you can do for your kid in minute one of life.

Gary Brecka (34:54)

Yeah. And then in the, in the precious important months immediately after delivery, we, I think the consensus is in that if you can breastfeed, you should be breastfeeding. And for whatever reason, a lot of women can't. Either for anatomical reasons or other reasons, they can't. And so now they fall back on having to feed babies formula. And I had the health and human services secretary, but I also had gentleman named Kyle Diamantes who's the head of human foods at the US FDA and one of the big focuses and projects that he's aligned with and they're, they're really researching right now are infant formulas. And do we really need to put pro inflammatory seed oils in as the, you know, sole means or major means of, of, of fat of these, you know, these, these fatty acids. So if a woman has to, it can't breastfeed for whatever reason. You know, I know a lot of the young pregnant women, especially in my. Sir, I've got two of my company right now, you know, they're ordering their infant formulas from Europe because they've gone down the rabbit hole of the research. And they're like, they're just better quality formulations there. They're seed oil free. And here there's some regulatory guidelines that force different ingredients to have to be in there because it has to meet a certain profile. So where do you fall in infant formula and is there. I, I've seen both sides of the spectrum, you know, Dr. Barbara O' Neal, or she's not doctor, but Barbara O' Neal saying, well, goat's milk is very close to mother's milk. And then I've had other people say that there's nothing wrong with infant formula. And some people say that you should only get it from Europe.

Dr. Labib Ghom (36:43)

I don't think there's anything like the breast milk because like, you know, the vaginal microbiome, for example, the microbiome, your milk consistency changes, you know, so if you deliver, let's say at 27 weeks, the consistency of the milk that comes out is going to be different than if you deliver a Term. So it's made in a way to give the baby what the baby needs at that age.

Gary Brecka (37:05)

Oh, wow.

Dr. Labib Ghom (37:06)

Yes. The antibodies that are in it. There's no way a formula can mimic breast milk. And unfortunately, yes, like you said, there might be a lot of things added to the milk to make it maybe more tasty for the, for the baby that might be hurting. I'm not an expert, I'm not a pediatrician, so I cannot comment that. But yes, my to go first is milk. Is breast milk the other option, of course, to try to get the least amount of, you know, formula that's not inflammatory or causes gas. And you can know, like, for example, in my experience, my wife breastfed for three months, then she couldn't anymore, so we moved to a formula. We had to change 10 formulas. Yeah. In order for the kid to not have gas and colics. So. Which is not normal to have, you know, colics and. And why that? Severe colic. So it might be one formula not working for. For that specific kid. But yeah, the world of formula is a, you know, is a huge problem. A lot of hospitals are shying away from having formulas on both board. Some. Some hospitals used to give away formulas on discharge.

Gary Brecka (38:10)

Right.

Dr. Labib Ghom (38:11)

A lot of them stopped that because, you know, they don't want to promote those formulas. So it's, it's. It's a difficult situation. But again, the first two years of life, if you give the baby those inflammatory components, you're gonna make things worse. Yeah. So, yeah, try to find the most natural, you know, way. There are, you know, donor milks that, know, women donate some milk. It could be maybe a better option. Not everybody accepts those. But yeah, breastfeeding should not be difficult. I think putting too much pressure on the woman is going to make her maybe not like to breastfeed or feel this, you know, social pressure. By the way, doing skin to skin in the first minute will improve your breastfeeding rates. I've seen it firsthand. A patient telling me, I don't want to breastfeed. Please don't even open the subject. I don't want to breastfeed. Don't even tell me the benefits. I know I'm doing formula from minute one. And then I remember we're doing rounds and the baby was in the room and the pediatrician was talking to the woman, and she's like, can I try something? And just put this baby next to your breast. And she took off, of course, her blouse and put the baby. The baby just crawled to the nipple and started sucking really yeah. And the mom started crying. She's like, I want to breastfeed. You know, so really, like before trying, you have a lot of oxytocin that comes out, which will make you calm and bond you with the baby. We don't pressure women. We empower them to try to breastfeed. Yes, there are sometimes anatomical things that will not let you breastfeed. But if you can breastfeed, try. Even a month, even two weeks, even few days will make a huge difference in the baby. But going back to formula, I really don't have an opinion about it because I know there's so many formulas out there and each one says they're the best and, but they can never mimic breast milk.

Gary Brecka (40:07)

Yeah, yeah. You know, I'm, I'm deep down the rabbit hole of this right now. So when I, when I come to some conclusions, I'll, I'll, I'll share them with you. I'd love to get your, yeah.

Dr. Labib Ghom (40:15)

And then maybe we can eventually, like I said, do tailored or, or specific formulas for each baby, depending on their probe on their gut microbiome. So maybe we need to look into that in the future.

Gary Brecka (40:26)

I, I love that, I love that concept. So now these couples are on this journey together. The man still, you know, plays, plays a huge role. I mean, the father's presence, we know, especially in young children, is critically important. Breastfeeding, critically important. But yeah, I've been deep down the rabbit hole of this whole toxic exposure and pro inflammatory compounds and a lot of, in, in a lot of different infant formulas. But you know, the sad thing is it's restricted by the regulatory guidelines, like you have to have this and you can't have that. And so it limits the capacity to, to structure these in ways that might be healthier for babies. I think you're going to see a lot of that change because, you know, human foods, the US FDA is really open to widening these lanes. To the extent that there's evidence, you know, that to, to say that this

Dr. Labib Ghom (41:15)

is priority, I think this should be, you know, the number one priority.

Gary Brecka (41:18)

Yeah.

Dr. Labib Ghom (41:19)

Because we are what we eat and you know, we need to have a nice, you know, clean, you know, food supply. Like you said, some people are going to other countries to get, you know, different type of food. So no, I think this should be our priority because a lot of the diseases are related to, to food. We know, we know that.

Gary Brecka (41:36)

And so as an ob gyn, you're not only dealing with deliveries, obviously, you're also dealing with women's health issues and There was a big announcement by the FDA recently removing black box warnings from female hormone therapy. And they corrected the narrative around the Women's Health Initiative study. That incorrectly was, you know, when, when they, they didn't. Most people don't read a published study. And so they take the narrative and the headlines that comes from the headlines and they intentionally or unintentionally, I mean, I have to think that it was intentional, you know, redirected women away from hormone therapy. And you know, if you talk to Marty McCary, the head, the commissioner for the FDA, he'll say that 50 million women needlessly suffered because they were told that, you know, hormone therapy increased their risk of breast cancer, when in fact it actually decreased their risk of breast cancer. There was not even. There's certainly nothing causal and there was a correlation between taking these, you know, having hormone therapy and, and increasing your raise rate of breast cancer. What I find fascinating is, you know, menopause for a lot of women is beginning earlier and earlier. Right. It can start in their late 30s. So you start to have these weird symptoms. Mood changes, weight gain, water retention, fatigue, brain fog, you know, mood and emotional issues. And immediately, I think most women look to their outside environment and go, okay, it's either my spouse or my career or my, my job, my kids, my stress. But very often this, these are the hormonal changes going on. And you know, it's my belief that they can benefit very often from, from hormone therapy. But where do you fall in that, you know, whole debate on hormone.

Dr. Labib Ghom (43:28)

I think today it's not a debate anymore. I think the WHI misled not only women, but misled physicians.

Gary Brecka (43:35)

Yeah, happy to hear you say that.

Dr. Labib Ghom (43:36)

When the WHI came out, I was still a resident. That was 2001, 2002. And you know, we discussed it in our journal club and you know, that was a robust study. You know, we should not be giving, you know, women, you know, hrt. And even though, like in our residency as an OB gyn, we don't see a lot of menopausal women. So add to that, you know, the training and postmenopausal treatment is not as robust as it should be. And I think this is changing very soon. So we did not, you know, have a lot of experience with, you know, giving hrt. Plus we were like, afraid. So in my first few years of practice, I would tell women, yes, take HRT just to treat your hot flashes five years. And then that's it. You would stop them. Because we don't know the risk of Breast cancer or cardiac diseases. And if you want to continue, that's at your own risk. I used to make, actually few patients sign consents like they're taking it at their own risk because that's what the data told us and we're firing evidence based. But yeah, if you want to talk about the whi, the type of estrogen that was used, the design of the study, the age of the woman, we can talk for two hours. But yeah, it was some, some sort of. It doesn't reflect what the real problem is. Right now. Women are going into menopause maybe a little bit earlier. Yes, they would benefit from, from, from hormone replacements, especially the newer bio. Or I call them body identical because they're identical to the, to the body. They're still, you know, manufactured in a way.

Gary Brecka (45:03)

Yams.

Dr. Labib Ghom (45:04)

Yams and other things. But, but they're chemically very similar to the own. Their own estradiol and progesterone and testosterone. Yes, women will benefit on multiple levels, you know, from, from, from their skin all the way down to their, to. To their organs and bones and, and, and vaginal health, sexual health, mental health. So there's a lot of benefits, you know, for hrt. But also I think we should always kind of, you know, personalize things. The dosages, who should benefit, when to start, when to stop work on the pillars initially, that inflammation, their gut, their toxins, before throwing in hormones without, you know, thinking. And it becomes like a, like a recipe. It should not be a recipe. It should be a tool that we have to give women Those, those, those medications that I think are just replacing what they lost. We're not giving them super physiological dosage. Just, you know, bring them back. Yeah, bring them back where they are because they deserve to, to be functioning. You know, the work, the workforce today is almost 50, 50 men and women. You have CEOs that are women. So imagine a CEO in a, in a meeting and she's sweating and she forgot what she thought about. I mean.

Gary Brecka (46:18)

Right.

Dr. Labib Ghom (46:18)

It's so important.

Gary Brecka (46:19)

This happened to my wife. We just did a podcast on it. I mean, I, I lived it day to day. I mean, like it just over a period of. Slowly, over a period of several months. My wife was becoming kind of a different person. And, and what really drew my attention to it was when she got frozen shoulder, she got adhesive capsulitis.

Dr. Labib Ghom (46:38)

And it's typical.

Gary Brecka (46:40)

So yeah, I didn't realize how typical it was. And there's not a lot of literature on it. And so I started going deep down the rabbit hole of it. And, and you know, all of this, the symptomology, including the frozen shoulder was linked back to menopause. And then of course, then when she started having hat flashes, that was the big flashing red light. And we did a test called a Dutch test. It's 24 hour urine test and it gave us so much information that her obgyn was able to tailor her hormone treatments. And, and if, if you're a woman and you want to see that podcast, we actually give Sages exact hormone dosages on there. We go through the, the Dutch test in detail. But what was astounding to me, so

Dr. Labib Ghom (47:23)

you became a different person, I'm sure

Gary Brecka (47:25)

in, in three weeks, a completely different human being. It was like the woman I met, you know, 10 years prior. I mean, mood improved, sleep improved, libido came back.

Dr. Labib Ghom (47:36)

Of course.

Gary Brecka (47:37)

Thank you very much.

Dr. Labib Ghom (47:37)

Of course.

Gary Brecka (47:38)

And that was a, that was a nice plus. Libido came back like a freight train. Her, you know, her waking energy improved. She, she would tell me, she's like, I'm sitting down to send a wire from my bank to pay this bill and I've done this a dozen times and I literally can't figure it out.

Dr. Labib Ghom (47:57)

Yeah, she's like, I hear this all the time. It's not me. Like I feel.

Gary Brecka (48:01)

Yeah.

Dr. Labib Ghom (48:02)

So, yeah, definitely hormones play a role.

Gary Brecka (48:05)

But even, even the frozen shoulder. Yeah, which I was like, you know, she went from being able to only raise her arm to here to whim, right straight up, straight up in the air.

Dr. Labib Ghom (48:12)

And of course, you know, it's not only, you know, your musculoskeletal system, your cardiovascular system, your skin, which is so important, you know, for women and their beauty. You know, they start aging very fast if they're without hrt. I see a lot of women undergoing, let's say, you know, facelifts. And the ones that are not on hormone replacement, the results are usually weaker and last less. So it can help on all levels. And I'm so happy that they removed this, you know, stigma on, on estrogen causing cancer because I think we're in the, in the right directions, using them the correct way for the right patient, the right dose, the right, right route is, is, is what's important. And that's where, you know, physicians and healthcare workers, midwives, those are the people that can, you know, help those, those women. And at least the help is there now.

Gary Brecka (49:04)

You know, I, I, I try not to get my information from TikTok and Instagram. I try to get it from, from clinical studies and then Put it on it Instagram and TikTok. But I, I, I've been reading a lot lately about, because we, we, we struggled with this when we were young parents, you know, with having the kids sleep with you.

Dr. Labib Ghom (49:23)

Right.

Gary Brecka (49:23)

And it's the best, I mean, let's just be honest, having your baby in the bed with you or your young child in the bed with you and they're all snuggled up, you do not want to just get up and go dump them in the crib or give them away. But now there seems to be some evidence emerging that, you know, kids that actually do break that law and sleep with their parents early on, I mean, you don't want your 50 year old sleeping with you, but you know,

Dr. Labib Ghom (49:49)

gets

Gary Brecka (49:50)

a little weird when they're your size. But you know that there's some evidence that this bond and this unity actually creates children and adolescents that have less incidents of anxiety.

Dr. Labib Ghom (50:04)

Absolutely. Yeah. I saw that study. It was out not, you know, a few weeks ago. Yeah, a few weeks ago, yeah.

Gary Brecka (50:10)

Yeah.

Dr. Labib Ghom (50:10)

Because, you know, our son is like six. He sleeps in our bed.

Gary Brecka (50:13)

There you go. Just like that.

Dr. Labib Ghom (50:15)

But the problem is a lot of nights he comes in, we put him, he sleeps in his bed. But then I would say every night he would come. Yeah, a lot of nights he would kick me out. You know, I mean, I wake up, I wake up very early, but kick you out or did the kids at 3:00am for him. Zach, he starts, you know, no room for you, dad. But, but yeah. And then we thought, oh, we need to break this, this cycle. Keep him in the room. But when I saw the study, it makes sense. But like everything, you have to have a balance there. Yeah, sure, there should be a point. Yeah. A point where, you know, he has to have his independence. He will probably, or she will probably won't want to sleep in your bed anymore. They want their own room and blah, blah, blah. But definitely this bonding, this connection, there's some chemistry that goes on. Pheromones or what, I don't know what they are, or the energy that goes between humans when they are sleeping next to each other that could, you know, maybe help the kids have less anxiety. They will feel safe. So it's, it's all connected.

Gary Brecka (51:08)

My wife used to accuse me of being lazy because, you know, we would take turns when, when our firstborn, my, my daughter would wake up in the middle of the night, start crying. And my solution was go pick her up, bring her back to the bed because I was so exhausted. Yeah, just lay down and she would

Dr. Labib Ghom (51:22)

go Back to bed.

Gary Brecka (51:22)

And I'm like, this, this is working, right?

Dr. Labib Ghom (51:25)

Like the easy way. The easy way.

Gary Brecka (51:26)

But yeah, it could be the little chair next to the crib. And I'll try to, you know, get her back to sleep and sneak her back into the crib. She start crying again. I'm like, but if you think about

Dr. Labib Ghom (51:35)

it, you know, the baby was connected to the mom through the umbilical cord. They were in their uterus. Just suddenly putting them alone in a crib is weird. Like, same thing with twins. You know, they were used to being, you know, close to each other. There's a lot debate whether you should separate them and at what age you should separate them or keep them sleeping next to next to each other. I think it's important to keep the internal environment kind of the same when you're out and slowly, you know, disconnect them from each other, for example, or disconnect the kid from you. So it's okay if you're, I guess, kid sleeps in your bed. I'm sure a lot of people comment on this, saying, yes, no, it's controversial. But at the end, whatever works for you.

Gary Brecka (52:15)

I think. Yeah, I think you should just make the decision as a parent and, yeah, quit worrying about the rest of it. You know, it's. Mother Nature has a way of kind of taking care of itself. You know, one day your kid's not gonna wake up and just come running into your bed. You know, I used to. I used to hear the, like the pitter patter of the feet coming down

Dr. Labib Ghom (52:32)

the hallway or the running. Sometimes.

Gary Brecka (52:34)

Sometimes they run because, you know, kids wake up alone. I mean, if they've got high catecholamines or something, they go right to worst case scenario. You know, there's an alligator under the bed, there's a monster in the closet, and they beeline for your. For your bed. And it's. It's kind of hard to just carry them back into.

Dr. Labib Ghom (52:49)

Like I said, the body will adjust. You know, the nice thing about the body, it, you know, it puts priority to what it needs to fix first. So that's why I tell people to try to, you know, fix one thing at a time. Because if you overwhelm the body to fix everything in different directions, it's going to get overwhelmed. But the body knows, like, now my priority is, let's say, sleep. So it will fix your sleep in a way. Now my priority is to reproduce. So you will fix your gonads. So, yeah, the body is amazing machine.

Gary Brecka (53:20)

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Dr. Labib Ghom (54:36)

Absolutely.

Gary Brecka (54:37)

And you talk about some of the statistics in migrant population. Right. And I wonder if you might touch on that for, you know, what, what does that look like for people that are either relocating to a new country, new culture, or what does it look like for people that are coming from another culture and trying to assimilate?

Dr. Labib Ghom (54:59)

Yeah, I mean, Today there's around 300 million people around the world that migrate. Some of them migrate across borders. Some people migrate in the same, you know, country, but different regions. So. But humans migrate in search of food, career, family, safety. Some are forced to, let's say, migrate. Some just do it by choice for other, you know, more opportunities in life. So migration is common and it's increasing today because it's easy. It's easy to migrate today. But yes, I think migration is not only, you know, changing geography, it's changing your physiology. And honestly, I learned this from myself, from my own experience, because I migrated few times in my life. And it takes time for your body to adjust. Your microbiome changes from one country to another.

Gary Brecka (55:47)

Really?

Dr. Labib Ghom (55:47)

Because it's the water you're drinking, the food you're eating. Like for example, now when I go back, let's say to Lebanon in the summertime, if I eat something there, I might have an upset stomach because my flora changed. Living in Miami and using the water of Miami, for example.

Gary Brecka (56:02)

Sure.

Dr. Labib Ghom (56:02)

So your physiology is not that good, by the way. Yeah, I know.

Gary Brecka (56:06)

Don't start it.

Dr. Labib Ghom (56:07)

Yes, yes.

Gary Brecka (56:07)

Municipal water here.

Dr. Labib Ghom (56:08)

Yeah, I just saw your reverse osmosis system. So I think this is also another message to people clean their water without before drinking it. So yeah, your physiology changes by, by migrating. Not only your geography, your physiology, your friends might change and you job. So I think it's always a good opportunity to use migration in a positive way. Not to make it dramatic even if you had to be forced to migrate, but your circadian rhythm will change. But the body, like I said, is amazing and it will adapt to this migration and people need to be aware of it that if you're migrating it might take you three or four months to adapt to your society.

Gary Brecka (56:48)

Would you refer to as the healthy immigrant effect?

Dr. Labib Ghom (56:50)

Yes, yes. Yeah, yeah. And you need to be positive about it. And even if you've lost everything and you move to a different country, it should be an opportunity to start from, you know, from scratch. Any, any, any bad thing that happens, I think in everybody's life should be taken in a positive way and, and try to build on it. And this all reflects in your physiology and, and your energy will change, your sleep patterns will change. So yeah, I think migration is a topic that not many are talking about, but it plays a role in our health because we are constantly, you know, migrating and traveling around the world.

Gary Brecka (57:29)

You know, it wouldn't be the ultimate human podcast if we, if we didn't talk about some of the fixation that people have on longevity and anti aging and not just for women, but for, for men as well. Knowing what, you know, experiencing what you've experienced as a physician, everything from delivering babies to managing female hormone therapy to, you know, your, your, your lens on, on, on migration. What are just some of the must haves or must dos that society, men and women both need to be engaged in on a regular basis.

Dr. Labib Ghom (58:10)

Yeah, I think first you mentioned the, the obsession with like say longevity and health span. I think we should not, you know, have this obsession. Unfortunately, you know, people now are so obsessed on doing everything at the same time and, and it's, this is what's causing sometimes more anxiety.

Gary Brecka (58:28)

Right.

Dr. Labib Ghom (58:28)

Sometimes doing more labs can cause more anxiety. So I think we should use labs more, more as a framework to help us improve things. Not, you know, to do so many labs because this is going to make you more anxious. You mentioned the beginning basics, you know, your sleep, your food and your stress levels. I think those are the first thing that we need to do because being obsessed with like longevity and health, you might miss things in life that yeah, you need to enjoy. So you have to have a good balance and improving your health, enjoying Life, but at the same time living, you know, in a healthy way so that you can function, have good energy and transmit this to your kids and to your environment.

Gary Brecka (59:12)

Yeah.

Dr. Labib Ghom (59:13)

So, yeah, the first thing is not to obsess about, you know, longevity and living longer. Just obsess about living healthier. Now I think that's. And if you like to do this certain hobby, do it in a healthy way. If you like to do play paddle or you like to play tennis or soccer, do it but in a way that you will enjoy it. And don't, don't obsess about, you know, hacks that might not work for you, might work for some other people. And like I said, sleep is so important. I mean, I'm discovering this every day because I have issues with sleep and, and I'm trying to fix that because the nights I sleep well, I am so productive and I feel so. Yeah. And the nights I don't, I'm in debt for sleep and, and my whole concentration, my whole energy collapses. So focus on sleep because there are people say, oh, I'll sleep when I die. Yeah, I hate this all the time. You know, you live once, you live once.

Gary Brecka (60:08)

You're losers. Yeah, you'll sleep when you die. Take the hill.

Dr. Labib Ghom (60:11)

I think the hours you are awake will be so much more, more fruitful if you have slept the night before.

Gary Brecka (60:18)

Yeah.

Dr. Labib Ghom (60:19)

So I think that's, that's the main message. And of course we know sleep improves your fertility, improves your weight, control your gut microbiome, your brain, your. It's, it's, it's unbelievable, you know, how, how important sleep is. And then food like we talked about, is what, what we are because it's going to affect our hormones, which in turn will affect our, our life.

Gary Brecka (60:41)

Yeah, I, I would totally agree with that. I mean, I think that you can get paralysis of analysis very quickly by just going out there, just Googling around about a good supplement, Googling around about the best biohacking modalities. And I think very often we just forget that we have data on this already. We have big data, we have blue zone studies and there is not much that matters if you don't at sleep. Whole food dieting and mobility just making exercise kind of non negotiable. And these are, this doesn't matter if you make $2 an hour or $2 million an hour. It's not a socioeconomic thing, it's just a human thing.

Dr. Labib Ghom (61:21)

And movement is cheap. I mean, movement.

Gary Brecka (61:23)

Yeah, movement's cheap. And, and, and, and you know what's interesting is you know, you, you, you want it to be this one special thing, you know, Like, I was always fascinated when I would look at like blue zone studies, and it was like the goat herders and sheep herders and.

Dr. Labib Ghom (61:35)

Yeah.

Gary Brecka (61:36)

That were, they were living the longest life because, you know, like, sheep wanders down over the hill, they walk over and get the sheep, they bring the sheep back up, then they brought their lunch with them and they ate out in the sun, you know, or ate out under a tree and they have fresh air and. And you know, Casey Means was talking about how we spend 97 and a half percent of our time indoors now.

Dr. Labib Ghom (61:54)

Yes.

Gary Brecka (61:55)

And I'm conscious about trying to force myself out outside and, And I will say that of all the biohacking, you know, you walked around here. I mean, of all the biohacking modalities that I have and all this, you know, fancy, fancy equipment, nothing really makes me feel better than getting silently on my skin in the morning, doing around the breath work, going for a grounded walk or, I mean, when I'm in Colorado, this little four mile loop that I do with a weighted vest and I come back and I'm like, I feel really good. Like, I feel like spiritually good.

Dr. Labib Ghom (62:31)

Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The connection with nature. Yeah. All these, yeah.

Gary Brecka (62:36)

Western medicine they do, or Eastern medicine they do forest bathing.

Dr. Labib Ghom (62:39)

Yes. You know. Yeah.

Gary Brecka (62:40)

Somebody actually sent me a, A slide of some of the hospitals in the 30s and 40s, and they had sunbathing, balconies, hospital beds.

Dr. Labib Ghom (62:51)

Yeah.

Gary Brecka (62:51)

On rooftops.

Dr. Labib Ghom (62:52)

Rooftops.

Gary Brecka (62:53)

Yeah. Yeah. And then we just lay the patients out in the sun.

Dr. Labib Ghom (62:55)

It tells you, you know, like our ancestors knew a lot.

Gary Brecka (63:00)

Yeah.

Dr. Labib Ghom (63:00)

But we just had to prove it with, you know, with studies. But there's a lot of things that are done that are really, you know, basic that our ancestors did without even maybe noticing that they are, you know, beneficial. And, you know, with time, they. We lost those skills, I guess.

Gary Brecka (63:17)

Yeah.

Dr. Labib Ghom (63:18)

But, yeah, nature walking outside is amazing, but. Yeah, unfortunately, because of work and because of people want to succeed all the time, and there's so much pressure on us that we are stuck inside on our laptops and our. On phones with junk lighting. Yeah. You just have to, you know, go out and, and walk. And I think what you've done here is almost like nature. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Your air is so clean and, you know, everything is, is amazing. But, but like you said, going outside is still no replacement for.

Gary Brecka (63:50)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I think the more disconnected we get from Mother Nature, the more, the more isolated we become. You Know, I don't think that we were genetically programmed or ancestrally designed to be endorsed this much in artificial lighting and artificial temperatures. You know, our bodies are so adaptive. It's incredible how resilient we are. You know, that's why I love the application of some of these hormetic stresses like sauna and cold plunging. And you don't have to be obsessive about it, but those things make it make a difference. They actually build resilience, you know, and

Dr. Labib Ghom (64:19)

of course, we do it with, with friends. It'll be even, you know, you know, better because, you know, also the community is so important.

Gary Brecka (64:25)

Yeah.

Dr. Labib Ghom (64:26)

So that community, that sense, that sense of is huge. Huge.

Gary Brecka (64:32)

So in your practice, where are you going? How has, how has your actual practice evolved? Like, the way that you look at your patients now? Have you zoomed out now and you actually start to consider lifestyle, diet, stress, whereas maybe, and I'm not putting words in your mouth, when you got out of med school, first started seeing patients, it's sort of a by the numbers kind of thing.

Dr. Labib Ghom (64:56)

I think you. You're not putting words in my. These are my words.

Gary Brecka (64:59)

Okay.

Dr. Labib Ghom (64:59)

That's exactly what I want to say. Yes. Yeah, you become, you know, after training, you know, you become a bit kind of a robot. And. And you do the right things. You save lives, you do C sections, you do hysterectomies. And so you're doing the right things. But, yeah, that zoomed out, you know, 360 view of lifestyle. I'm starting to appreciate it maybe in the last four or five years, how important it is. Yes. We used to be told lifestyle is important, but we never dug into, like a patient would come in for 10, 15, 20 minutes.

Gary Brecka (65:31)

Yeah.

Dr. Labib Ghom (65:32)

I wouldn't know much about her life.

Gary Brecka (65:34)

Right. You can't really dig in.

Dr. Labib Ghom (65:35)

Right. Yeah. So, but I think digging in into every person's lifestyle, the way they sleep, sleep, what they eat, when they move, what are things happening in their life as far as stresses, the relationships. I mean, those take time to know a person. You can't know a person within five minutes. But, yes, definitely my view on pregnancy. Whenever I see a woman that has a baby, a small baby, I start thinking, is it things she ingested? Is it the food? Is it her blood pressure? Why is her blood pressure high? Is it related to, you know, her stresses in life? Where does she live? So, like, yes, my, my view to. Things have changed. No doubt.

Gary Brecka (66:15)

Have you seen patterns in your practice?

Dr. Labib Ghom (66:18)

A few patterns, yeah.

Gary Brecka (66:19)

A few patterns in lifestyle?

Dr. Labib Ghom (66:21)

Yes. Yes. I mean, I Definitely women that have a very hectic lifestyle with, you know, very high demanding jobs, you would feel sometimes that pregnancies, they might end up with more IVF sometimes. I mean, again, those are just observations. I'm not saying anyone who's high achiever will need ivf, but yeah, you have those patterns that you are seeing. People that have don't access to food, they only have access to junk food. They end up being overweight, having preeclampsia, preterm labor, emergency C sections. Yes, there is a pattern, no doubt. I know that. But now just the way I think about a pregnant patient is different than what I did, you know, five, six years ago.

Gary Brecka (67:04)

Yeah. No, just amazing. I'm, I'm so glad that you came back so we could.

Dr. Labib Ghom (67:10)

I'm so happy you had for round two.

Gary Brecka (67:13)

Yeah. And it's, it, it, it still strikes me that we had to meet halfway around the world and we had to finish it or. Right, you're right up the street. You know, I have a group of folks that are my VIP clients and, or VIP members. And so we're going to go into the, the VIP group and now have a little private podcast because I let them know who's coming on the podcast. They have some questions for you. If you're actually interested in becoming a VIP, just go over to theultimatehuman.com forward/vip and you can get it. Take advantage of the private podcast. You can ask Gary anything. You can get my AI to labs, you can be at a genetic testing, you can ask it anything. It's an incredible community of like minded people that's going to change the world. But before I end every podcast, I asked my guests the same question. And if you watch the podcast, you know it's coming. There's, there's no right or wrong answer to this question. And that is what, what does it mean to you to be an ultimate human?

Dr. Labib Ghom (68:10)

I think being, you know, I did not. I knew you're going to ask this question. You did? I didn't, I didn't want to prepare it. I wanted it to, to be, you know, to come out. From what we're discussing, I think an ultimate human, you should be a person who is connected to yourself, connected to the people around you. Give as much as you take from others so that you know, the day you are not here on Earth, people remember you that you were someone who impacted their life in a positive way. And then at the same time being a human is, you know, enjoying life, not to take things all the time. Seriously. And then, you know, being able to live in a healthy way and then not dying, suffering. I think that's. That's how I see it. An ultimate human meaningless. Yes.

Gary Brecka (69:10)

Yeah. No, that's amazing. Dr. The bib. You're amazing. I'm glad that you came back, and

Dr. Labib Ghom (69:14)

thank you for having me. Round three is going to be the Trying the biohack. Yeah. Gadgets you have, for sure.

Gary Brecka (69:21)

We'll do a whole podcast episode on it.

Dr. Labib Ghom (69:23)

You're welcome back. You should do this. Yeah.

Gary Brecka (69:25)

You're my. You're my neighbor, so you're welcome back anytime. So thank you for coming on. And until next time, guys, that's just science.