← The Underworld Podcast
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- [00:00]
Danny Gold
Hey, I'm Ryan Reynolds. Recently I asked Mint Mobile's legal team if big wireless companies are allowed to raise prices due to inflation. They said yes. And then when I asked if raising prices technically violates those onerous two year contracts, they said, what the are you talking about, you insane Hollywood? So to recap, we're cutting the price of mint unlimited from $30 a month to just $15 a month. Give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch $45 upfront payment equivalent to $15 per month New customers on first three month plan only taxes and fees extra Speed slower above 40GB Details he was a leader, a church deacon, a husband, a father. He went to a local church. He was going to the grocery store with us. He was the guy next door. But he was leading a double life. He was certainly a peeping Tom, looking through the windows, looking at people, fantasizing about what he could do. He then began entering the houses. He could get into their home, take something and get out and not be caught. He felt very powerful. He was a monster hiding in plain sight. Someone killed four members of a family. It just didn't happen here. Journey inside the mind of one of history's most notorious killers, btk, through the voices of the people who know him best. Listen to Monster BTK on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. May 14, 2024 in Northern France, Normandy. It's a Tuesday morning in one of France's quieter regions not known for its crime and chaos. A prisoner is on the move, being transferred after he's been sentenced to 18 months for burglary. It's a silly charge of sorts. He was caught breaking into supermarkets and stealing bottles of alcohol. Not exactly Al Capone, so the convoy taking him is small, only five guards or so. The van transporting him is going through a toll booth when all of a sudden it's rammed by a black sedan going the wrong way from behind. A white Audi follows it, boxing it in. Four men jump out, clad in all black, with balaclavas covering their faces, holding AK47s. They start letting off dozens of shots. It's a prison break, and the man they're trying to bust out is a guy by the name of Mohammad Atra, otherwise known as the Fly. He's young, about 30, and already has a bunch of convictions, though none of them are for anything really big, including drug trafficking. In recent months, though, he's faced some serious new charges. One of those charges is for attempted murder, and the other is for helping organize a kidnapping that that led to the murder of a drug dealer whose body was found burned in the back of a car. That happened in Marseille, a port city in the south of France. And it's what they now call a Marseille barbecue. See, everything ties back to Marseille. Even though Time magazine just ranked the Marseille neighborhood as the coolest in the world in 2024, it's become a symbol of the out of control violence perpetrated by drug gangs across France. It's gotten so bad that even the Interior Minister has referred to the Mexicanization of the city. Still, Marseille is not exactly a stranger to wild drug gangs and organized crime. The French Connection and all that. The most infamous heroin trafficking operation of all time was based there. That's where the Corsican mafia refined, smuggled morphine into heroin and then shipped massive amounts of it into the US for decades before the rise of the cartels, it was probably the most famous and most profitable drug trafficking operation in the world. That got stamped out in the 1970s. But Marseille has still maintained a healthy amount of drug trafficking. And the Corsican mob got replaced by French North African street gangs in the 2000s, more focused on retail selling than having a large international trafficking operation. Since then, the city has seen periodic outbreaks of violence, shocking for European cities. Things now, though, have really gotten out of control. 14 year olds are being recruited as hitmen off of telegram giving Kalashnikovs and sent to kill 15 year olds. In 2023, there were 49 narco homicides, as they're now called. The overwhelming majority of them happening between two gangs, the Deezy Mafia and the Yoda clan, whose leaders direct the violence from Algeria or Morocco, sometimes Dubai. The DZ mafia has really ramped things up and they were said to have been behind three quarters of those murders. Back to Amra the Fly, escaping from a prison transport. He's alleged to be only a mid level dealer. Independent. There were ties to a gang called the Blacks that fought a war against another gang in 2021 that saw seven people killed just that summer. The Blacks are actually now battling the Deezy mafia, but we'll get to that. The operation to free him. It'd be one thing if he was a major boss, but he's not even seen as a big player. Which makes the fact that even someone as small as him could organize a jailbreak like this shocking. The operation is nothing if not professional. In a matter of minutes, two of the guards are dead and the other three are wounded badly. And the Fly climbs into a Beamer to make his escape. As of January 1, 2025, he's still a fugitive, and many suspect he's already hiding out in Algeria. He's been quiet, but the drug gangs of Marseille are as loud as ever. This is the Underworld Podcast. Welcome back to the podcast that dares to ask the question, what's up with France? What are they doing over there? I'm one of your hosts, Danny Gold. I'm joined by the other host, Sean Williams. We are two journalists that have reported all over the world on stories of crime and conflict. Hell, I think Sean is reporting right now. I don't even know what country he's in. And every week we bring you a story from the world of international organized crime, of past, present and future. Cautionary tales from cautionary tales, I like to say. As always, bonus episodes on patreon.com Underworldpodcast or sign up here on Spotify or itunes. It's that easy. Underworldpod.com for merch. Some great shirts over there, and the underworldpodcastmail.com for tips, story ideas, anything else you want to say over email, monetary offers, if you have a place in the Caribbean for me to stay for a month, things of that nature, et cetera.
- [07:04]
Sean Williams
Yeah. Hello, everyone. I'm in Seoul, South Korea, so that means I'm eating noodles in soup for every single meal. Like, every damn meal, which is incredible. Not very good for your digestive system. Two hot takes from this city. The buildings are wide as well as tall and the cars are all really shiny and clean.
- [07:21]
Danny Gold
Good stuff.
- [07:21]
Sean Williams
So it's really, it's good observation there. And judging on a couple of nights ago, if a Welshman says he's got sausages in his bag and the bar's got a microwave, you got to get those kill basses out and have a sausage party with the locals because it is fun. Yeah, I went out with a Welsh sausage maker, an American arms dealer and a reporter, and it was very fun. But, yeah, anyway, yeah, we want shitcoin tips, fix sports matches to bet on pennies, stock pump and dumps. I don't know. I mean, you've got to, you've got to do crime if you're going to report on it, Right?
- [07:52]
Danny Gold
Yeah, we've been thinking about having like, a segment or a Patreon thing where every, every month we take 10% of the podcast earnings and just try to get involved in any sort of scam that we can see and see if we can turn it around. So we'll see how. How bored, how. How bored we get. But, yeah, first episode New Year, last year. Our audience through the roof. We want to continue with that. So spread the word. Tell your families, tell your friends, tell your rich uncles to advertise with us. Find the guys who work on GTA 6 and tell them to buy our show. All that. But anyway, moving on. We're going to France. Do you know what they call an eight ball in France, Sean?
- [08:27]
Sean Williams
I do not.
- [08:28]
Danny Gold
It's not a Royale with cheese. It is called a Bule de Huit. I think is the pronunciation. Probably not. I mean, I could do better than that. That is. That's Sean level humor right there.
- [08:37]
Sean Williams
Ah, that's not fair, man. My puns are good. And puns are funny.
- [08:42]
Danny Gold
All right, so Marseille, beautiful city on the coast of the Mediterranean called the Gateway to the Mediterranean south of France. Second largest city in France after Paris and one of Europe's oldest cities, actually. It's also something that we love very much here, which is a port city. You guys know why? And that port has been a hub for centuries and centuries. It was actually France's main port of trading with North Africa and the rest of the French colonial empire. So it's very cosmopolitan in a way too. Also infamous for drugs. Lots and lots of drugs. It's notorious in terms of organized crime. We've talked about the French Connection before. We're going to do it again. Real quick confession. Still have not seen the movie. I know, I know it's embarrassing to do an organized crime podcast and admit that, but in my defense, Sean has actually never seen the Godfather. All right, he probably. I think he probably has. I made that up.
- [09:34]
Sean Williams
No, I mean, I never saw the third one. Yeah. And yeah, the French Connection is sick. I mean, all timer Gene Hack, man, that guy, that guy had range.
- [09:43]
Danny Gold
Yeah, yeah, he. He definitely did. But I should make an effort to see that movie this week. But the big war taking place there right now, the one that's responsible for 80% of the murders in Marseille in 2023. And I think one of the gangs is responsible for most of the ones in 2024. It's between two gangs called the Deezy Mafia and the Yoda Clan, or Yoda gang. That's the one where they got 14 year old hitmen that are getting into pitch gun battles with AKs. It is wild. But we will get to that in a minute, though. I think the DZ Mafia actually won that war and is now fighting the gang called the Blacks, which the guy from our cold open, Mohamed Attara, he was involved with. But we'll get to that, too. But for now, we gotta. We gotta go back a little bit to a simpler time. Way back, even before Serge Gainsbourg was on national TV telling models he wanted to bang them live on air.
- [10:32]
Sean Williams
Well, I mean, yeah, yeah, that and his daughter, too. I mean, I'm not going to let you use this show to suggest French people are cool, Danny, because. Because they're not. I mean, just because you put butter up a roast chicken's backside, you're not. You're not intellectual. Guys, I mean, does anyone watch the darts this week? Now that. That is culture.
- [10:49]
Danny Gold
I have seen that. That video going around, which is awesome, of that guy's entrance. But Serge Gainsbourg is. Is cool, dude. Like, I mean, Jane Birkin and Bridget Bardot in like two. Come on, man. I like, if you guys don't know who Serge Gainsbourg is, just Google that picture. Just Google Serge Gainsbourg and Jane Birkin. I mean, come on, how could you not love that guy?
- [11:07]
Sean Williams
I mean, I'm just saying that Stephen the Bullet Bunting is genuinely cooler than Serge Gainsborough. And I. I want everyone to email in with messages of support for that view.
- [11:17]
Danny Gold
I don't even know any of his music, to be honest with you. I'm not even sure I know any of his songs. But I do appreciate his lifestyle.
- [11:24]
Sean Williams
He's just kind of like mumble rap in the 50s.
- [11:28]
Danny Gold
Whatever. Whatever. Whatever it was, it worked for him. But anyway, moving on. The French Connection is when the Corsican mob started importing morphine from Turkey and a few other countries, smuggled it into Marseille and then used underground drug labs there to turn it into heroin, where it was then smuggled into the US Primarily in New York, but a bunch of other east coast ports with the help of the American mafia to feed the heroin addiction boom of the 1960s. At one point, I think it was responsible for 80% of the heroin coming into the US and that is a lot of smack and a lot of money. It gets started in the 1930s, 1940s, but didn't really ramp up until the 1960s. And it was put together by Corsican mobsters who had fled Corsica during World War II and set up shop in Marseille, where organized crime controlled the labor unions that were working the docks. They also ran major prostitution rackets and smuggled in all sorts of goods in the post war era. I think during the war era too, there was heavy corruption of politicians and law enforcement, lots of black market activity during the war and after. There were also French and Italian mobsters involved. But if you're Trying to get a vibe for Marseille. I feel like it sounds similar to Sicily during. During that era. The Corsican mob, though, was not one sort of big hierarchical group. There were a few mobsters who had their own setup. I think I read that at one point there were a few dozen groups operating at, you know, operating there. They all had their own kind of ways of making it work. And it's actually fascinating enough that I'd love to do an episode on just that eventually. Or just the Corskin mob wars in general. My buddy Olivier Sarbill, who was one of the most badass and best documentary filmmakers out there, go see his crazy black and white doc about the Ukraine war called Viktor that's out now. He's Corsican, and he's just always telling me to do an episode on it. That there's just so much that happens on that island and through those groups. What's with. I mean, what is with like Mediterranean islands just generating massive organized crime groups? It's got to be, I don't know, the ports, the sea access. Yeah. Or maybe the isolation, the constant sort of cultural exchange, the lawlessness. I don't know, man.
- [13:29]
Sean Williams
Yeah, I thought it was the olive oil. Maybe the sexy dancing. They have sexy dancing there. The cocktails. Sounds a bit sexy as well. Suntan's. I don't know. Could be all 3, 4, 5.
- [13:38]
Danny Gold
But then you'd have it like all over the Mediterranean coast. I guess you kind of do, right? Albanian. So it's a different sea, but yeah, I guess it's just one of those worlds where there was so many Albanians, Greeks, but all the shipping, all the trade, I think probably people on the move, I think probably contributed to it. So I'm sure there's. There's studies done on it or academic things that, that are out there that probably are less fun to read, but it is interesting to think about. Super fascinating piece of info. One of the main, if not the main players in the French connection during the 1960s was a guy named Jean Jiran. And it's alleged, I think it's alleged by the guy who made the French Connection, the movie, that the French police gave him a pass and didn't want to arrest him because he was a big player in the French Resistance and fought the Nazis. And I don't think he was. Ever spent a significant amount of time in jail and died of natural causes, which, you know, maybe it should give you a pass to move a little H. If you're. If you've killed a few Nazis, you know.
- [14:33]
Sean Williams
Yeah, fair but like we got into with last week's show, there were actually guys on the other side of that coin, right? There were pro Nazi mobsters, too, channeling heroin cash into the anti resistance efforts in France. And then I think I did. Yeah, the guy last week was. He hopped on a boat to Buenos Aires and got involved in a bunch of bank robberies there. So, yeah, thumbs down to that guy. But this guy, yeah, less so. I mean, Nazi hunter, smack dealer. He's on a net positive, I suppose.
- [15:02]
Danny Gold
Yeah. Give him a pass like the French police did. Anyway, the French Connection gets mostly shut down in the 1970s. There was then a period of war called the Godfather's War, where the leftovers were kind of battling for control. Still a major prostitution racket there too, I believe, because, you know, French. In the 1990s, Marseille moves away from heroin mostly and becomes a center point for hash smuggling out of Morocco. And while Corsican groups are still active, you have these North African gangs of Moroccans and Algerians. I think some of them are immigrants. Some of them are also the children of immigrants that came there in the 1960s and 70s, and they start really moving into the drug trade and kind of. I think there's a lot of tension with the Corsican groups as well. And this, of course, leads to some gang warfare, shootouts, violence, and organized and disorganized crime. Many North Africans had come to France in the 1960s for work and settled into these housing estates that eventually grow to be isolated and dilapidated. And the jobs kind of dry up, too. And those. When I say housing estates, I guess it's the English, what they call council estates and what America here we call projects.
- [16:03]
Sean Williams
Yeah.
- [16:04]
Danny Gold
Interestingly, everyone talks about the suburbs of Paris, right, Where the crime is serious. It's got kind of a similar phenomenon going on. Sean, pronounce it for me. Was it banalou?
- [16:14]
Sean Williams
Banlieue.
- [16:16]
Danny Gold
There it is. But the housing projects in Marseille are actually located in the city, most notably in the area known as the Northern Quarters, which we are going to talk about a lot.
- [16:26]
Sean Williams
Yeah. Les Cartiers Noir et les banlieues. There we go. I read Asterix at school with all the other massive chads. Danny.
- [16:34]
Danny Gold
Yeah, I mean, your pronunciation is always spot on, but just a man of the world, unlike me. So, yeah, those gangs. Coming up, this new wave of organized crime begins to emerge in Marseille, fueled by the rise of hash and cocaine, becoming the drugs of choice in Europe. These aren't like the elegant mobsters of the past. They're not sipping espresso in A corner cafe. These are young, street level dealers. Although I guess those guys were pretty brutal too. Even if they did, you know, wear cardigans and eat croissants and like, drink espresso on the street, still do the same kind of stuff. There's actually a fascinating movie called Une Profette. It's a French film that shows this interaction and this kind of changing the guards between and battling between the old school Corsican mobs and the new North African gangs. I don't even know if it definitely takes place in Marseilles. It might be elsewhere in southern France or even in Corsica itself. But either way, it's a great movie. Definitely look it up and see it if you haven't. But yeah, most of these gangs now battling it out in Marseille, they're not Corsican. Right. They're mostly North African or of North African descent, some West African. And now one of the guys who had tipped me off to the story was sending some stuff about a Nigerian gang that was making moves there that I think was related to the cults Sean, that you did one of our earliest episodes about. Yeah, yeah. So apparently they're establishing a presence there as well. But I think they focus mostly on the. On the sex trade there. And you know, these gangs, a lot of them come out of these neighborhoods, the northern quarters, which is home to those big housing projects that are these really rough, kind of poor, marginalized areas.
- [18:02]
Sean Williams
Yeah, there's like a massive wave of Algerian immigration to the city and to southern France generally when they had the civil war in the 90s, which was really, really super rough. I think there's 150,000 Algerians in a city of 1.5 mil. So that is a lot.
- [18:18]
Danny Gold
Yeah, yeah. A guy, the guy who lived in Marseille who reached out to me, the chat about this story, he was saying, in the south of Marseille, very different from the north, it's beautiful, it's on the water, it's hip. You don't even really feel the drug wars and the violence going on. He was saying the guys like, in his neighborhood, like, they're clueless. They have no idea what's going on up there. And in fact, Time magazine just named a neighborhood in Marseille as the coolest in the world right now. So I guess there's. There's that.
- [18:46]
Sean Williams
Yeah, damn, sorry. Marseille, you're now going to get Aussie baristas with like lion tats and perms. Game over.
- [18:53]
Danny Gold
Yeah, just the outflow from Berlin right now when they realize, yeah, thank God, have that in warmer weather. But. But, yeah, beginning in the 90s, 2000s, you had the emergence of these new gangs. By the late 2000s, there's already these reports about the out of control gang violence in Marseille. Though interestingly in 2005 when there were riots all over France, that started from, you know, this tension that these communities had with the police. And I think a couple kids got like electrocuted when they were hiding from the cops and that kicked off. Marseille was basically completely quiet because no one wanted to mess up the flow of the money and they had such control over the neighborhoods. There's this shooting in November of 2010 with AKS that kills a 16 year old and wounds an 11 year old. And the Washington Post that December, they marked that as the quote, discreet drug wars of Marseille getting blown open. Though I don't know if they were ever really that discreet. It was the 18th killing that year between what they call the hash gangs, which again, that's a lot for a European city. I feel like European cities don't usually see that, that much violence, especially that much gun violence. In 2013 you've already got France 24, you know, one of the main news channels in France, I think, if not the main one, doing debates on how the gangs are completely out of control and politicians are calling for sending the army in. I think during this initial battle that year, 20 people are killed in nine months. Again, a lot for a European city. Interestingly there then and now, the primary money maker for the gangs is hash. Though I thought it was going to be cocaine. There is a lot of cocaine. I had assumed these were kind of like big international traffickers, you know, more like a transshipment point. Sort of like the Corsican mob in terms of where the way was moving. But the battling is mostly over point of sale spots in the city. They're fighting over retail sales. It's reminiscent of the crack wars in New York, like in the 80s. Guys, perfect new sponsor for 2025, Chubbies. You guys probably know them from their shorts. They make a ton of great clothing. I got the classic line swim trunk, which is perfect because I need to get away from New York. It's 8 degrees, it feels comfortable. It's got great stretchy fabric. They've also got a Polo that I'm wearing right now. Super lightweight, comfortable. It was a Giants Polo, which the Giants are terrible. But the Polo is fantastic. And for a limited time you can use code underworld@chubbyshorts.com and get 20% off your order. Don't miss out. Chubby's is here to Help you take on 2025 in style starting with the comfiest, most versatile gear you've ever worn. For a limited time, our friends at Chubby's are giving our listeners 20 off with the promo code Underworld at checkout@chubby shorts.com that's 20 off your order with the promo code Underworld. Support our show and tell them we sent you. No matter where the new year takes you, Chubby's has the gear to keep you comfortable and looking your best. C H U B B I E S S H o r t s.com do it.
- [21:49]
Sean Williams
So this is domestic kind of turf wars rather than big time cartel stuff. I mean are the Mexicans there, those kind of groups?
- [21:56]
Danny Gold
No, I mean I think they have deals with, with, with South American groups to move cocaine in there. But yeah, it's domestic turf wars that's causing this violence. It's not about international shipping routes. I don't mean international, obviously stuff is coming into France, but it's not coming to France. Then flow a ton of other places outwards like it's not that sort of warren. Right. It's, it's literally about hand to hand sales, which is interesting. The hash is generally sourced from Morocco obviously. It's. Some of it actually is smuggled through Spain and then comes in from Spain into, into, into France, which I thought was surprising. I thought it would all come across the border. The cocaine obviously comes from South America. It gets to Marseille in shipping containers or through the port. There's also apparently a lot of people from the French Caribbean or French Guiana that are muling it in on their person. But there is connection to Colombian cartels. You know, you've got Albanian gangs acting as wholesalers. There's some western North African gangs as well and all that sort of stuff. And obviously really powerful North African gangs that are involved in that, in that sort of trans Mediterranean trade. In 2021 there's a war between two gangs. One is known as the Blacks which we mentioned in the cold open and another is either known from, or I guess they're from an area called Les Oliver. And I couldn't find much more on them, so not sure if the name is accurate. Whatever the case, seven people are killed that summer, all with AK fire and they're fighting over a sales point that was bringing in 50k a day. So there's, that's 50k euro. So there's money there. Right. And the Blacks are called that because they're made up of immigrants from the Comoros Islands, which is an island in East Africa, that was a French colony until 1975, you know, and the Europeans, they're just. They're just not PC bud when it comes down to it.
- [23:37]
Sean Williams
No, I'll give you that one. I mean, interestingly, the Comoros is right next to Mayotte, which is still. That remained the French department despite the Comoros becoming independent. And they. They had a ton of gang violence erupt a couple years back. Machete attacks, like, quite a few killings. Not pretty stuff. I think the French might have sent in gendarmes as well. But what is pretty is that that gives me a chance to talk about one of my favorite subjects, which is the mad French cup in soccer. Where are these. There are these overseas territories, right? Because the way France worked, they literally counted as a part of France. So you get, like, third and fourth division teams, barely even professional, flying all the way from Paris to, like, Martinique, Tahiti, French Polynesia, Mayotte for a domestic cup game. I mean, that is a decent away date, although I don't know how the teams afford it or how it even works. But, yeah, interesting.
- [24:29]
Danny Gold
Yeah. I mean, it certainly beats, you know, flying over to, like, Birmingham or something, but.
- [24:34]
Sean Williams
Oh. Oh, okay.
- [24:37]
Danny Gold
Here's how the BBC described it in a 2021 article. Quote, According to the writer and expert on Marseille's poor northern neighborhoods, Felipe Purot, the killings in Marseille are always over sales points. The big bosses slug it out in Morocco or Spain. Here on the ground, the drugs, retail has been subconscious out, and it's teenagers doing the work. This is also when the media and law enforcement start talking about how young the kids are that are doing the shooting. One interesting fact about this is it's not just young kids from Marseille. The gangs are actually recruiting from all over France, posting up basically want ads on telegram and on signal. It's like a summer job. This is another quote that's like a summer job. But they're much more vulnerable than the local lads because they're so isolated. An investigating magistrate told Le Mans newspaper.
- [25:24]
Sean Williams
Les Lads du Marseille. I love that.
- [25:26]
Danny Gold
Yeah, these kids come there, you know, they get food, they get housing, and they just. They post up. Young kids get recruited first as shufs. That's an Arabic word for watchmen. And they get €65 a day. They might be 11 or 12 years old. Then they move on to, like, muling weed from Spain, working the point of sales ops and so on and so on. But it's interesting that they're recruiting these kids from. From outside of Marseille. That's part of it, right? Because, like, you know, you see people talk about this and they mentioned the marginalization of these communities, the racism, the poverty, the lack of opportunity in Marseille, which it's all true, right? These are real phenomenons. But you have to kind of acknowledge that some people are making a choice. Some of these, these kids, these young people, they make a choice, especially if these teens are getting recruited from outside Marseille, you know, or like this killer. We'll talk about who came from a middle class family, and they make that choice for easy money, fast life, all that. And to be cool, like NGOs and sociologists, academics, they never mention the cool factor, which is 100% a real thing. Especially as we're going to see when it comes to the use of social media with these groups. And it's kind of like, you know, they complain about the job opportunities and not being hired, but it's like they actually trying, like, you can't do jack shit all day and fuck around in school. And they'll be like, I had no choice. I had to start selling coke in a completely different town. I mean, not that it's easy to come out of a bad neighborhood. You know, this is like my, my sort of boomer dad speech, but. Or it's not. It's not easy to sell coke either. Like, selling drugs is not light work. But yeah, seeing the back and forth in the media about that is really interesting to see from an outsider perspective. Anyway, 2021, it's actually the bloodiest summer that Marseille has in some time. And allegedly it was because a bunch of bigger dealers being released were fighting over territory, asserting their power back, including the leader of the DZ mafia, who I don't think the DZ mafia was officially a thing back then. But he gets released from prison and he wants to take back some territory he previously had as part of like an iteration of another gang. Here's the Maghreb times quote. In March 2021, another trafficker considered a drug baron on French territory, the Franco Algerian Mufide Bou Chibi, was arrested in Dubai and then transferred to France. A few months later, a man suspecting of leading a major drug trade in Marseille, Hakeem Baraboo, was also arrested in Dubai and headed over to France, handed over to French justice. Most recently, Karim Harat. Elias Rantomplan, a Marseille, is wanted for a series of organized gang homicides perpetrated between 2018 and 2020 in connection with drug trafficking and who had fled to Dubai and then to Morocco, was extradited to France. So the bosses are not really Usually in France, they're. They're in Algeria, they're in Morocco, they're in Dubai. And you do have people getting extradited back from Morocco, from the uae, but not from Algeria, which doesn't extradite.
- [28:12]
Sean Williams
I mean, you know, Danny's written a banger when he's trolling the Maghreb Times for quotes and info. So top digging there. I didn't even know that they existed.
- [28:20]
Danny Gold
Did not either. But good on them for, you know, making that, doing a regional newspaper thing and making it work. As for the violence, unlike a lot of European cities, there's a proliferation of AKs that lead to these crazy shootouts. A lot of them come from the former Yugoslavia left over from the wars there. But there's also knockoffs being made, including Chinese versions. Some people think some of them are coming over from Libya too. But I feel like the Yugoslavia connection, I mean, we see that in Sweden too, right? Like, I think that's where a lot of these guns do actually originate from. There's this infamous incident in 2021 too, when three people are killed in one night in August. And it's over one of these point of sales and these battles. Basically, the gangs control different areas in the northern quarters and they run them, you know, like your usual bodegas, supermarkets with the barricades set up so no one can go in or out without them knowing or having time to dismantle. If it's the cops, they have complete control over the neighborhoods and the. The housing estates. I mean, if you've seen Gomorrah, it's a lot like that. I'm actually surprised that in recent years it hasn't really switched over to the cell phone game. There is obviously some of that too, in Marseille. I think there's. There's been stories about that, but it seems like that sort of delivery service method is what most big ops are doing elsewhere.
- [29:33]
Sean Williams
Yeah, I mean, this feels like saying the cops should look into, but I mean, I guess they're all on strike or neck and wine or grabbing people's bums or whatever. French people. People do people. French police do.
- [29:44]
Danny Gold
I mean, they do, and we'll get into that, but like, they do do some pretty harsh raids and like they, they bang heads. I mean, the French police are generally. We make fun of the French a lot, but they don't. They don't mess around, man. Like, they get aggressive. Sometimes too aggressive, but like they, they knock heads and it just seems like they've. They've either given up or they're Not. There's some good documentaries out there on it that I was watching on, on YouTube where they got to embed with the French police for a day. And yeah, it's. It's one of these back and forth for journalists. It's one of these big. No, I mean, doc, I forget who made it, but it was like one team was with the French police and one team was with the. The dealers who love publicity, which is great.
- [30:21]
Sean Williams
Oh, that's true.
- [30:22]
Danny Gold
But yeah, these point of sales, man, they can bring in 25, 50, some even a hundred thousand euros a day. But again, I assume that's revenue, not profit. But still, I mean, they are making money. All right, let's go to the origins of this war that kicks off in 2023 that I was talking about. It's at a nightclub in Phuket Island, Thailand, which, if you're talking Thailand's to go to. Not my first or top 10 choice, but still, still nice. There's two men from Marseille in the early 30s, and despite them each being the head of a different major drug clan in Marseille, they're having drinks. Some sources have said that they once worked together, that they grew up together. One of them is named Mehdi, but everyone calls him Tick. And he has a brother he had worked with that everyone calls Tak. Though Tak is still in the midst of a long sentence for murder. Tick heads up the DZ mafia, which is just taking off at that point, and it's made up of Algerians and French Algerians. He's got a long history involved in the drug role, the Marseille, including doing a prison sentence for participating in what they call that Marseille barbecue, which is when someone is killed, thrown in the boot of a car or just the backseat, and the car is set on fire. In 2011, that, that murder his brother did, they lure three young men who were former friends, turned competitors on Christmas Eve into an ambush. They kill them, then they set the car on fire. So he does that with his brother. Both are sentenced to long prison sentences. He gets out in 2021 after getting 10 years, tick does. For setting the car on fire. That's just what he was charged with. His brother is still serving a 25 year sentence for pulling the triggers, which seems light for a triple murder. But you know their family, they grew up with a dad who was a truck driver. Stay at home, Mom. He was first arrested at 12, though he gets into acting. Was actually like a teen actor in two movies, one in 22,002 and one in 2008. Here's a French magazine on his youth quote. At 17, Tick sees his first corpse, one of his friends killed over a drug deal. The first in a long series. At 21, his record shows 16 mentions theft, driving without a license, drugs. By his own admission at that time, he had, quote, become a scum. He earns between 300 and €500 a day, blowing it all in hostess bars and luxury clothes. And him and his brother, apparently they said they launched the first drive through drug market. But that seems like just something made up because like all these places just drive through, pick it up and leave.
- [32:42]
Sean Williams
It's surprising that this is France, right? It's not some place that nobody knows about. This is a huge European country. It's got media and everything. It seems like the background of these guys is really shady and there's so much competing information. It's interesting actually, given it's not. Yeah, it's. I mean, I don't know, it's just confusing.
- [33:00]
Danny Gold
I don't know. It seemed. There are elements I think of. You don't assume that these are in Western Europe, but they are for sure. I mean, this is like the States have situations like this too, but I guess it's different because we have a lot more guns. But yeah, I mean it's. It's pretty wild, dude. Like, it's. It's definitely, you know, Sweden gets a lot of attention and obviously there's powerful gangs like the Kinahans and whatnot in Ireland, London, you guys like to stab each other. But this is pretty. For Western Europe. I mean, this is pretty wild, I guess. Italy is probably, you know, obviously the craziest. Yeah, it was. It's. It's really. The documentaries are really good. It's an. It's a fascinating situation. Tick and the DZ mafia, whose emble is a. Is a Fennec fox, which. They're very cute. The national animal of Algeria.
- [33:41]
Sean Williams
Oh yeah, they're cool.
- [33:42]
Danny Gold
It's graffitied everywhere. They control. They have a bunch of sales points and a housing estate called La Paternal or Le Perthornal, which is massive. It does massive sales because it's located right next to a major highway, so tons of customers coming in and out. They have an uneasy coexistence up to that point with a Yoda clan which is headed up by the other guy in that nightclub. His name is Felix the Cat Bingui. Yoda clan has sales points actually right next to them. They kind of use the same lookouts. From what I've seen. Felix is involved in crime from a young age too. He wants Help with a prison break. He's done some time. And I've seen sources say that they actually grew up together in similar. In the same projects or right next door and had worked together. Nobody knows exactly what the origin of the fight is, but these two ganglords, they get into a heated argument in that club. There's some reports it was over a woman. More likely it was just, you know, gang bosses talking shit to each other or beefing over control of La Paternal. Felix is allegedly hammered. He throws some ice cubes at Tick. You know, the disrespect. The next day, a member of DZ shoots a member of Yoda in that housing project. Then there's retaliation. Everything breaks down, and then these two groups go to war with each other. So this is. This is another important point. The violence really began to escalate in Marseille between the gangs in the 2000s. At first, it's about control, you know, over neighborhoods, drug routes and clients. But the profits soon grow. And these rivalries, they turn into, like, blood feuds. Entire families are drawn into the conflict. Marseille becomes famous for, like, the settling of scores. You keep seeing this word, the settling of scores mentioned over and over. Vendetta is awful, also tossed around. So on the one hand, you know, it is about control over the drug trade, but on the other hand, it becomes about, like, bravado, toughness, revenge, image, retaliation, all the fun stuff that leads to success. So these are not just. They're not just like these. These, like, drug gang murders, right? They start to become public murders. They're broad daylight. People are ambushed in their cars, gunned down in cafes, shot outside their homes, bodies set on fire. And then there's these graphic, graphic videos that are uploaded in recent years to social media for bragging rights. Dozens get killed in the war in 2023, including 12 in one month. These guys battling it out end up being responsible for 80% of the murders and attempted murders in Marseille. I mean, this is like, you know, it's not Latin America numbers, but it's pretty wild for anywhere in Europe, even in the States. This would be like a. Which has a much higher murder rate between two gangs. Like, this would be pretty serious. There's footage of people just rolling up in. In the middle of the street with jumping out with AKs, just letting off shots. 49 people are killed in those wars in 2023, which feels like a record high, like I said. Besides for, like, southern Italy, for Western Europe.
- [36:26]
Sean Williams
Yeah, that is a huge. That is a huge number. I mean, I'm surprised They didn't get any media in the UK or the US actually, that's like really interesting.
- [36:34]
Danny Gold
So it did. I mean there is a, there is a healthy amount of, of media about this articles that you'll see either English language, French stuff or in like some of the UK papers and the US papers. Not a ton of in depth stuff, but there's like short docs on it and things like that. So people were, were talking about it, it was getting attention. You know what I just realized too is that, you know, I've been looking into doing an episode on the, on the great Nordic Bike War, I think that had a ton of like dozens of murders as well. So these, these things do happen sporadically. But yeah, the Marseille situation seems pretty, pretty wild. Some of the more incisive French media, they're writing about how this is a war of teenagers on the street and how the bosses are all abroad, like I said, in North Africa or Dubai, calling the shots while collecting money hand over fist while really not being under too much threat. And nearly all of this violence takes place in the northern quarters. You know, they've been deprived of resources, they're run down and they're basically run by the gangs now. Think lookouts and track pants shooters on the back of scooters, you know, cross body bags, mostly first and second generation kids from North Africa. And these rundown housing projects where they have these like, you know, garbage bins or concrete structures that say who can come in and come out. They have the menus for what they're selling spray painted on the walls. It's pretty visually, visually interesting. It would be great to do a documentary there. Here's how a French crime reporter describes the current Marseilles chaos to the Times of London. He described the uberization of the drugs trade. In the past five or six years, traditional gangs with well defined hierarchies have largely disappeared and the wholesalers have recruited teenagers to do the high risk street dealing. Pujol said, like delivery workers, they earn little. There are about 50 wholesalers in Marseille and 200 across France. They never get directly involved in street dealing. They arrange things so that the kids who do it are constantly in their debt. So they're always desperate for quick money and prepared to use violence to grab a patch of territory where they can sell. It works a bit like a franchise system.
- [38:33]
Sean Williams
It's kind of similar in a way to county lines in the UK as well, but a bit. It sounds a bit more heavily structured. I mean, also I was just wondering because all this stuff's Coming from the Riff, is it the Rif Valley or the Rif Mountains?
- [38:46]
Danny Gold
Right.
- [38:46]
Sean Williams
In Morocco. And we did a show on Ridouan Taghi and, like, the Dutch mafia and then the Kinahans are involved there as well. There must be. Is there no fighting, like, south of the meds over this stuff? Because it feels like there must be. I mean, there must just be so much of this hash coming out of town. But I would imagine these groups are fighting down there, but maybe they're not. Maybe they're just happy to keep the fighting going on the other side of the ocean.
- [39:11]
Danny Gold
That's a really good question about how it goes down in Morocco. I'd be interested to learn more about that. You know, the Moroccans also don't mess around. Right. Like, the government there does not mess around. So I don't think they. They would tolerate a lot of violence of that nature. You know, they, they. They're pretty. They keep things, I think, I would assume, under wraps, and they wouldn't mess around. I don't think the protections that exist for civilians, not civilians, but, you know, people in the drug game, like. Like in Western Europe exist there. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I figured they go. So maybe it's better to keep things under wraps while you're over there. But I'm sure, I mean, there's still, I think even in the Tagi thing story or some of the other ones we've done about those gangs in Belgium and whatever else that have connections to Morocco, there were hits there, here and there, you know, killed there. So I'd be. Actually. Would be. That'd make for a good episode, dude. You should look into that. Or not. I don't know. Yes.
- [40:05]
Sean Williams
Yeah, yeah, sure, I'll do that. Yeah. All right.
- [40:09]
Danny Gold
It's estimated that the drug trade in Marseille brings in 350 million a year. And it all gets washed in local businesses, you know, in the city. Bakeries, restaurants, laundromats. But that is a lot of money, you know. And what's that book where the sociologist claims that corn boys make less than minimum wage? I forget what it's called. It's someone in Chicago. But apparently in Marseille, the tubes can start at like 65, but they can get up to €150 a day. Choose, I think, how you say it, but like, 300. Yeah, 3. €300 to be a street dealer, 400 to be, like one step up, you know, that's not a bad payday. It's a pretty good one. So just. Yeah, that's all right, and the contract killings, Right, let's get to those. They actually have high rates. There's a very famous story of an 18 year old named Mateo F. Who, who was from a middle class family. I think he was actually Corsican and became a top hitman, though really, they're more just like shooters, you know? And this comes from a new book by three French journalists that just came out. It's focused on the teenage hitman of Marseille. And Mateo f. Allegedly did six hits in like a month or two and made €200,000 or so he claims. Here is France 24 on it quote. Mateo is the embodiment of a new generation of hurried, uninhibited. No holds bar hitmen, write the trio of journalists. They are teenagers galvanized by extreme violence, who think they're living in a video game, but shoot live ammunition.
- [41:29]
Sean Williams
Apparently. This is, this is a real big thing these days, right? Young guys acting like they're in one of the video games they're playing all the time. Like that Luigi, was it Mangione or whatever, the CEO killer and his silenced gun. Apparently that's, that's like pure video games. Folks think, they think that a suppressor is better for a street hit, but it's the other way around, right? Because if you blast somebody with a loud bang, the witnesses are going to hit the deck, they're going to run away, and you probably won't end up chatting some girl up and then getting shopped in at a McDonald's a few days later. I'm just saying.
- [41:58]
Danny Gold
I mean, I haven't seen the video game thing about, about him, but, yeah, like, look, we can. This isn't. I'm going to go on another, like, boomer dad speech. But, like, yeah, this stuff has an influence, you know, like, yeah, we can admit that now. Like, video games, obviously, movies, like, even me, like when I'm in the gym, dude, and like, finito comes on, I'm like, you know, I was born in the 80s. I am not doing any street crime right now. But I'm just like, dude, I want to leave here and just like, shoot up a bodega window right now. Like, you get hyped up, you know, And I think I don't consider myself an impressible youth. And even I start, like, getting amped up. So I imagine, like, it does have an effect and like, you can see it too, in social media and like these kids posting this stuff, like, it, it is, it's. It's just a fact.
- [42:39]
Sean Williams
Yeah, but definitely, I mean, I, I Shouldn't have played Wolfenstein before I moved and made for some uneasy interactions on the street, but yeah.
- [42:48]
Danny Gold
Oh, man, that came rule, dude. All right, so Mateo F is hired by the DZ Mafia. And he clearly did not listen to this podcast because he gets all this notoriety because he would post his hits on Snapchat and also post Snapchats of himself bragging about all the hits and the money he was making. He is, for lack of a better word or term, a complete moron. Here's France 24 again. Quote, instead of fleeing the scene after his first killing, Mateo took the time to film his victim's bloody body front and back, set his car light in plain sight of a residential block, and then post the gruesome footage on Snapchat, complete with SoundTrack and the DZ Mafia signature after the clan that hired him. And here's the crazy thing. The leaders of these gangs actually encourage the shooters, like Mateo F to post this stuff in the hopes of terrorizing their enemies and not just encouraging them. They pay them more if the stuff goes viral. A police source told a local paper that the shooters can actually double their pay if the video goes viral. If it gets more attention. Quote, the greater the buzz, the higher the pay.
- [43:53]
Sean Williams
Yeah. Remember to follow our Insta and TikTok guys.
- [43:56]
Danny Gold
Yeah. So, I mean, what that means is also there's like a lot of solid French TV news reports and documentaries, because these guys give pretty insane access because they're kind of morons, you know? But I guess it's working for the DZ Mafia, but still, it's like, I don't know. Matteo was first arrested for killing a 15 year old and a 16 year old. And the average age of the hitman in Marseille is usually between 16 and 20. And like some of the dealers, they're often just recruited from outside the city. There's another absolutely insane story involving a 15 year old hired by the Dizzy Mafia. But we'll get to that. That's a little tricky. We'll get to that in a second to target the Blacks, who, you know, the gang we've mentioned a few times. And from that war in 2021, the DZ mafia has mostly won that war against the Yoda gang and are now at war with the Blacks. But there's this 15 year old he's hired to set fire to the doorway of an apartment where a member of the Blacks lives. He's given €2,000 to do that, but he gets caught in the act by 30 or so gang members of the Blacks, and they stab him 50 times and set him on fire. The whole thing. They post on Snapchat. So DZ then hires and sends a 14 year old to take out like one of those gang leaders who had killed the 15 year old. And he's in like a, like a bolt car, like an Uber, heading there to get revenge. And he thinks he sees one of the guys that he's supposed to kill. So he tells the driver to stop. The driver refuses. And then the kid shoots and kills, executes the driver. And the DC mafia guy who had hired the 14 year old, he had done so from prison. He's so pissed off about what happened. I think he's pissed off that his hate got messed up, not that the guy got killed. He then calls the cops and gives up the kid, telling them that he had hired him. I mean, this is like, this is wild stuff. And I think there's a reason. Politicians and pundits in France have started kind of talking about the. They're referring to it as the Mexicanization of Marseilles, as they call it. And you know, one of the Marseille state prosecutors has said that the killings are, quote, characterized by extreme cruelty and a complete lack of humanity. Another prosecutor said he has warned that the city's drug lords are recruiting young boys to kill without any remorse or reflection.
- [46:00]
Sean Williams
Yeah, this is insane. This is mad, dude.
- [46:04]
Danny Gold
Kids these days, man. Am I right? So, like, where are the police and all this? I mean, they do get aggressive. There's raids and all that. There have been raids periodically over the past decade and a half. Lots of arrests. They ramp it up and. But of course there's other accusations, that they've long abandoned these neighborhoods, that they don't care because it's poor kids killing poor kids, that sort of thing. And it's a, it's a pretty common catch 22, right? Some media is going to report that the residents say the police are too aggressive, that they're harassing everyone. Other is going to say that the residents are complaining the police do nothing. They leave the residents to fend for themselves. Yeah, I was, I was watching a middle aged woman speak to a reporter for Friends 24, some doc they did in 2013, and she's saying, quote, they provoke us, that the police, the kids are all right, the problem is the police. And then a few years later, you know, there's an NPR interview with a filmmaker who grew up there and he's talking about, you know, the, the police have, have given up. It's become a no go zone for them. He does also Talk about, like, the unemployment and the misery and the sort of parallel economy that's taken over. And then there's this from The Guardian in July 2023, talking about French police conducting raids too aggressively or at the same time abandoning it. I can't even remember which quote. As questions mount over levels of racial profiling by French police in the wake of the shootings in Notetti, Marseille serves as a warning of what happens when the police lose control or abandon a community. More broadly, it is seen as a litmus test for France. If its most multicultural city can foster vast Muslim enclaves viewed with broad suspicion or hostility by the police, then what hope is there elsewhere? So, you know, it's one of those things like, obviously everyone just wants good policing, right? Or I think most people. But I don't know, man. I used to, you know, when I was. I did a lot of crime reporting in New York, and you'd be in, like, housing projects in, like, South Jamaica or Brownsville or East New York, like, you know, notorious housing projects where you'd have a lot of kids, like, you know, 15 to 30, 15 to 35, and everyone's like, the, the police are here too much, blah, blah, blah. And then you'd have everyone over 35, which would be like, please, we need more police here. Please send us more police. So there's always a sort of, yeah, mixed bag with that. I mean, the French thing is hard for me to suss out, having never been there and just gotten it off media. But it does seem like they, they, they do, they, they do crack heads, right? But is it enough? And obviously the answer isn't always going to be just aggressive police activity. It's got to be resources and job opportunities and all that. But, you know, those are not things that, that come about easily. So it's, it's.
- [48:28]
Sean Williams
Well, I mean, I mean, this is the kind of. Sometimes the media tells on itself a bit as well, right? Because this story in the Guardian is like, oh, racial profiling after the shooting in Nanterre, which is a part of Paris, which was a completely separate issue. And then they've wound it into the story about drug crime in Marseille and Islamophobia or something like, they kind of, they're, they're the ones kind of lumping all these things in together. And I'm, you know, the police. I'm sure the police are doing a pretty bad job in some cases and not in others. But I don't know, sometimes the media just sort of builds narratives that are so simplistic. And this seems like a bit of, bit of that.
- [49:11]
Danny Gold
Yeah, I mean some of them are. I forget that document. Maybe it was. But there are some good ones out there that really show the challenges on both sides on how things work. But yeah, the Marseille gangs are now expanding outward too, towards smaller cities and towns up the French coast, bringing some of that violence with them. I did find it interesting though. I'd assume that these guys were, like we said earlier, were major European players, but apparently they're not really even the major movers in Paris or in Lyon.
- [49:38]
Sean Williams
It's very, it's very interesting. I mean if they get to Nice then, then you written the authorities are going to get off their backsides and do something that will not, that will not do for the French. But yeah, this is, this is crazy how siloed this all is, but it's kind of not right. It's just this one international bridge between Marseille and North Africa.
- [49:59]
Danny Gold
It's interesting that, you know, the guy who, who wrote to us was talking about how like people are pretty clueless even in southern Marseilles about what's going on. I mean, clues in the sense. I'm sure they've seen the news but like they're not affected by it at all. You know, people just buy, yeah, buy their, like buy their yay off the guy who comes with a, with a, you know, scooter or like an Uber and whatnot and that's it. So yeah, I don't know, it's, it's fascinating but a bunch of the kingpins and clan leaders have been indicted recently, some even convicted in absentia. One guy, main guy, Mimo, he was knocked in Algeria in June of 2023. He's been sentenced to 30 years in absentenia for a murder in 2017. But again, he won't be extradited. Felix the Cat, though, the head of Yoda was arrested in Morocco in March of 2024. I believe he's actually been extradited. He and Tick is apparently in, in Algeria. People think he was in Dubai but left there. As we've covered, Dubai does extradite Sometimes times in 2024, the killings decreased a bit. I think there was around 20, mostly I think committed by the DZ mafia. They had ended up taking control. So there's no longer like a big power struggle. The Times of London just had a big article about the DZ Mafia. Headline quote, the Marseilles mafia so big it's now a brand. And it talked about how they're expanding, you know, into old school mafia tactics like the extortion protection rackets of nightclubs, grocers and rappers, which, you know, that's how it is, kids. Your favorite rapper is being extorted. That's generally the case. They're also threatening prison guards and their families, even putting a bounty on one of the wardens in one of the prisons their leaders are in because they're refusing to let the DC higher command get cell phones in prison. But apparently some of these claims are from imitators who now recognize the DC Mafia as this powerful gang in the city, the most powerful one in using its name. Remember that 14 year old who botched the hit and killed the taxi driver I talked about? Kind of fascinating. Here's this Times quote about what happened. Quote. News reports highlighting the young age of the hitman prompted DZ to denounce the unauthorized use of its name in a bizarre video posted on social media in October. It showed 15 masked black clad men flanking their leader who appeared behind what appeared to be a makeshift altar covered with a white sheet inscribed with the words dz, Mafia and block capitals. The gang boss, who was not named, denied ordering the 14 year old to carry out killing, saying DZ had enough of its own men, vehicles and resources to act if we had to, rather than disavowing the use of violence. It's a funny thing for, for journalists to write in this story. He objected to the gang's image being tarnished by association with such an amateurish episode. Like why? I just caught that. Like what would they, they think the drug gang is going to be like, look, we don't, we don't support violence, so this is wrong. Like what do they rather disassociate? I don't know, man, that's hilarious. But yeah, claiming, you know, claiming the killing of a civilian was done by someone not in the gang, even though the gang or someone claimed it was. It's kind of an old, old tactic, so who knows whether that's true or not, but apparently shout out to freelancers. Yeah, the DC mafia, they're, they celebrate every $1 million they earn with fireworks, big fireworks displays. And as of November 2nd, we're said to be responsible for most of the 17 murders in Marseilles. Narco homicides, as they're calling them in 2024. And it's now expanding its operations into Brussels, so it's moving into that international corridor. And there are three street level dealers currently in prison in France who order the hits and give directions over smuggled cell phones and the newspaper. La Parisian or Le Parisian. Yeah, whatever. Claims that they have now ousted Tick and they are the ones who run the gang. But, yeah, you know, dark times in. In Marseille seems similar to a Sweden vibe that we've been hearing about, though. France, I think, is much more familiar with drug gangs and organized crime and violence, especially in that area. But this certainly seems like it's been ramping up the past couple of years. Maybe a connection to Covid, I think, was pointed out in terms of, like, how the selling was working and the violence had ramped up. That's what the guy who emailed us said. But, yeah, they don't seem to be able to slow the momentum. I think 100 members of the DZ have been indicted since October, so they are pursuing them aggressively. And, yeah, that's. That's where we're at. Bounty on the heads of the prison officials.
- [54:19]
Sean Williams
Yeah, that's crazy. What a shit show. And, yeah, feels like saying the police should probably try to sort out a bit more in the future, but who knows? I'm not French. Neither do I want to be or will ever be. Yep.
- [54:34]
Danny Gold
Should I just go to southern Marseille for the. For the winter and then set up shop there instead of trying to find somewhere?
- [54:40]
Sean Williams
Yeah, but only if you get like a knockoff Louis Vuitton, like sidebag.
- [54:46]
Danny Gold
Sick. Yeah, I'd be on it. Yeah. Patreon.com/the Underworld podcast for more episodes. The Underworld podcastmail.com underworldpod.com and thank you for listening. It sa.