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Jerome Frost
The role of an urban planner, I think is to be somewhat that conductor. If you like to pull and recognize. No one discipline is going to solve the problems of a city. I don't think in the modern day you can really take a cookie cutter approach to urban design.
Andrew Tuck
How do we bring together different disciplines to create projects that improve our cities? This is the Urbanist phone calls program, all about the cities that we live in. I'm your host, Andrew Tuck and this week we explore two urban focused stories which feature in the recently released March issue of Monocle magazine. First, we meet the CEO of arup, the firm behind some of the world's most impressive projects, to hear how they are helping cities to thrive. Then we head to Malaga to see its remarkable urban transformation and meet one of Europe's longest serving mayors. That's all ahead right here on the Urbanist. With me, Andrew Tuck. Jerome Frost is the CEO of arup, a design and engineering firm instrumental in making cities responsible for such blockbuster projects as the Sydney Opera House and the Bird's Nest Stadium in Beijing. Much of arup's work often goes on in the background, encouraging collaboration and a total design process which brings together many different fields to bring forward urban projects. Monocle's Josh Fennert recently caught up with Jerome. And Josh began by asking how Jerome's background allows him to be a great convener and conductor of the different disciplines which, which make great cities.
Jerome Frost
You know, I'm an urban planner. The role of an urban planner I think is to be somewhat that conductor. If you like to pool and recognise no one discipline is going to solve the problems of a city. But also I think from a personal perspective, I grew up in a household where my mum was a social worker, dealing with a lot of real life issues, vulnerable people really struggling in day to day life. And my father, he was a quantity surveyor, but he spent most of his time working on renewal of council estates and social housing. So I spent a lot of my early sort of mid teens and youth working on sites where these two things came together, if you like. And I suppose that informed a lot of where I've taken my career, this intersection, if you like, between social needs and the physical environment. And I would argue I've got a very clear sense of how the physical environment can impact positively or negative social outcomes, which plays very much to the heart of arup. One of our core aims as set out by our founder back in the 70s, is social usefulness. We look for every project that we deliver to have a socially useful outcome. So you could say I'm in the perfect place.
Josh Fennert
One idea that I was mulling over before we spoke is the idea that sometimes the narratives around design are sort of the great man of history, you know, a clever, often white, often older, often European thinker tells people how to live and they design somewhere in Marseille that's held up for 50 years as being the perfect way to live. But I suppose you have to embrace a lot of nuance when you're looking at cities. There are lots of different ways to live in them. How hard is it to get away from the idea of good design form, fox function, one size fits all solutions into the nitty gritty that this city, this street might need something very, very different from that city or even the next street?
Jerome Frost
Well, it's absolutely imperative. I don't think in the modern day you can really take a cookie cutter approach to urban design. And that's what we strive for in Arab. I've spoken a little bit about the range of disciplines we have, but it's equally important that we ourselves are a diverse community. We operate in over 140 countries. We bring together, I think, representatives of nation across the globe through our membership. And importantly, we don't just try and find local solutions. We really believe in ARUP having no boundaries, no borders within the organization. We operate as one global organization so that we can draw upon the perspectives from anywhere across the globe and multitude of different experiences. So you could say that goes beyond the kind of professional technical expertise to much more of the kind of experience carried by many of our members being brought to the fore in projects across the globe. So we have a local and informed by global solution every time, which tends to, I think, react and respond to, you know, what looks good elsewhere, but what also needs to work in a local context.
Josh Fennert
I wonder if you could tell us about a couple of case studies and things you're working on and maybe some of the challenges, of course, but maybe the opportunities of working in this way and being able to connect knowledge from places that are very, very different, but are probably going through quite similar things sometimes.
Jerome Frost
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I've just come back from China. Arabs had a presence in China for about 40 years. I think it's fair to say that when we think about what an electrified, connected human city of the future might look like, there's some incredible examples coming out of some of the big Chinese cities at the moment which ARUP has been intimately involved with. And for example, I was recently in the West Bund area of Shanghai where the post industrial Environment there has been converted into a really rather wonderful combination of parkland, entertainment space, galleries, and it is the thriving hub of the kind of tech industry which is emerging out of Shanghai. Beautifully done, everything electrified, full of people, very vibrant people there, weekends, weekdays, etc. But somehow quieter. You know, the electrification, the presence of EVs, the easy access by electric bus, etc. Makes it stand out as a place which doesn't just look different, it feels very different to what you might experience in other perhaps older cities where those kind of combinations haven't yet been formed. So I think one of our tasks is to learn from what's been achieved there and export some of that knowledge into pre existing city environments elsewhere in the globe and really sort of set about exchanging the knowledge base and as I say, localizing it. So I think we can learn a lot from electrification. China is probably leading the race across the globe in terms of what electrification might mean for cities. But equally, China is going through a period of urban renewal at the moment. It rapidly built a huge number of buildings in the 90s and early 2000s, as well as its infrastructure. A lot of those are getting to a point of aging. And this is an issue that other parts of the world are facing as well. You know, we estimate around about 40,000 tall buildings across the globe at the moment need to be brought up to modern day standards.
Josh Fennert
And we will come to that because I know you have an exciting solution. But as I hear you talking there, I just want to throw a couple of words into the mix and they're just two words that I don't know if we talk about enough. One of them is beauty and dizziness. Designing things that are beautiful in the same way that we might be struck by the survival of a Georgian house, the generosity of the architecture as well as the function. And the other one is grit. When we talk about quality of life here at Monaco, sometimes surprising cities do rather well because not everyone wants to live somewhere that is perfectly quiet. How much do you have to bring those to your clients as well and say, look, it can be efficient, but it's got to be lovable. And that sometimes involves beauty and a bit of grit as well.
Jerome Frost
Well, absolutely, I entirely agree with you. I think beauty is a really important word that we live in London.
Josh Fennert
So you know about a little bit of grit.
Jerome Frost
Well, I know about beauty and grit living in London. Actually. I think London's got a lot to offer. I spent several years working as a consultant to Argent on the King's Cross scheme. And I think actually the development there displays a lot of what you're talking about. But I think one mustn't be afraid of this kind of electrified world dubbing any of this down. I think it has to be conceived in combination with what makes cities human, livable, vital, if you like. And I think that's an imperative. So when we think about cities, we probably use three core words. One is electrification, if you like. The other is connectivity. It's about the understanding that cities are a series of systems, if you like, that need to interconnect. And these days, with the use of data, it's possible to help them interconnect in order to better manage them. And that frees up and releases, I think, a human energy which then needs to be really thought about in the way in which you do preserve what's precious in the city of the past and introduce some of the new that really helps people better live, if you like, in cities, makes them more accessible, makes them cheaper, et cetera. A great example is Arup has been involved in several of the Copenhagen metro lines. Copenhagen, a very strong environment, rich in heritage, but trying to grasp a lot of the benefits of modern electrified connectivity, if you like. The metro system that we were challenged with, we sort of turned the brief on its head and said, how can we introduce a modern day system that can be reliable, can be cheap, easy to use, has beauty, the word that I love that you use there, but at the same time integrates well with this heritage. And by raising the height of the tunnels, something seemingly quite simple, we actually brought this whole underground metro experience closer to ground level. Daylights could be brought into the stations. The stations themselves are simplified, very much more simple, less infrastructure required to support them, which means they can pop up into the heritage environment around them much more simply. And of course, by bringing better connectivity into the heart of the city, we've brought life and around those stations now we're also involved in planning some of the new activities, some of the amenities, etc. The entertainment spaces, etc. Which actually ensure that the city doesn't just become a series of sort of workplaces, home places, that it mixes these things together and you get that vitality that's so important?
Josh Fennert
Unfortunately, it is something we need to talk about today. But security in cities and resilience, is that fundamental to your thinking as well, that cities need to be protected, even if it's done in a way that maybe veils that hand from the people who use it?
Jerome Frost
I think for people to enjoy a city environment, they need to feel Safe, if you don't feel safe. And safety, you know, extends both to the kind of physical safety of whatever activity you're going about doing, but this sense also of being part of an environment which is safe, it is resilient, it's resilience to change. I actually think a lot of that is a psychological condition, if you like as much as it is a physical. Yes. You have to design in the resilience into systems. And we're working with National Grid at the moment on upgrading the grid to do just that, to make the grid more resilient. We're working with the water company across the UK at the moment to look at their supply of water, resilient supply of water, etc. And the interconnectedness between these things. But more importantly, perhaps we're also working with transport authorities across the globe to think about, you know, what if something does happen? How do you get a population to respond to needing to take a different route to work every day, for example? And we've got some fantastic modeling skills now, a lot of which are sort of AI based, learning from what's worked or what hasn't in particular scenarios around the globe, which we can bring to the fore to somewhat predict what might happen and the way in which you can affect human psychology to do the right thing in those kind of moments. And that brings about, I think, a degree of security and safety to those living in whatever city that thought process is being applied to.
Josh Fennert
Absolutely. And lots of things we're thinking about here at Monochrot. I kind of cut you off a little bit when we were talking about this idea of skyscrapers reaching the end of their lifespan. And I think it's important that you explain that you actually don't think that that needs to be a travesty. There may be a way to upcycle our existing skyscrapers. Is that correct?
Jerome Frost
I actually tend to think of the period that we're in. You know, I'm an urban planner, but I've spent most of my time in my career working on urban regeneration projects. But it feels to me like we're entering a sort of global golden age of urban renewal. As I said, I think we estimate around about 40,000 tall buildings across the globe are reaching the end of their current lifespan. That doesn't mean the end of their life. I think in the age of increased inflation in materials, limited resources across the globe, a real sense that we've got to do more with less. We're looking increasingly at the restoration of those buildings. Some fantastic examples, the circular quay Tower that ARUP has been engineering in Sydney has won all sorts of prizes because it's probably the standout in the world at the moment for demonstrating how you can upcycle a skyscraper. We worked in collaboration there with three xm, the architects together, we turned the brief on its head and rather than demolishing a building, we said, well, what's the real value of the existing structure? We saved 65% of the structure and 90% of the core and saved a huge amount of carbon by actually stripping back the old facade, replacing the new facade, bringing in all of the new mechanical ventilation, heat pumps, etc. And restored a building to its former glory, if you like, but in a very modern sense. And it now contributes not just to the life of the workers, etc. Who use it, but we've started now looking at the whole district around that building and the way in which that can be adapted, connected better into that building, and really start to exemplify that connected, electrified human district of that piece
Josh Fennert
of Sydney and Jerome. So much of your work touches on the idea that we can understand cities through numbers, whether that's the calculations of whether a building will stand the test of time, or analysing how many people use a street or a shop or a service. The numbers can tell us a lot and we can compare numbers as never before. AI gives us the capacity to model things. But I guess we're in a murky world, as we are with journalism, where human judgment and expertise needs to use this information wisely and not let the information set the parameters of the conversation. How are you dealing with that challenge and remaining optimistic despite the sea of numbers that no doubt surround every decision that you make?
Jerome Frost
Well, ARUP has always actually embraced technology and sought to try and use it to best effect to drive our own technical skills forward, if you like. The age of AI is no different. And I think the real strength that AI brings to a company like us, where we rely very heavily on our technical expertise, the real depth of technical expertise that we can bring to the fore. AI adds this additional opportunity to delve into a knowledge base which, frankly, the human brain is not yet capable of doing. Arup does about 19,000 projects every year worldwide. It's 80 years old this year. And now if you do some very basic maths, it's fair to say that we've probably delivered hundreds of thousands of projects in our lifetime. AI will help us delve into those projects, examine them, not just for the maths, but for their impact. We can look at those projects today, how Are they performing? In fact, we also have a tool which actually allows us to monitor the use of buildings, the comfort levels within buildings, the structural integrity of buildings, et cetera. So you could bring to the fore that deep, deep knowledge base and apply an understanding of how something's performing today and add that into the mix of what's been considered by this range of disciplines. The engineers, the planners, etc. Who are applying their minds to what is possible going forward. I think that's unbelievably exciting in terms of what we're going to be able to offer as an organization going forward.
Josh Fennert
And finally, Jerome, I'm going to create a new position. You're the global mayor from now on. You've got some ability to make some rules for how cities develop in 2026 and beyond. What's on your agenda for 2026 as the newly appointed mayor of the world?
Jerome Frost
Gosh. Well, I think possibly I would start by saying the age of assumption is dead. The first thing I would advise anyone anywhere across the globe is don't rely on what's worked in the past to be the solution for the future. I think we have to be curious. We say this repeatedly to our members in arup. Be curious. You know, really open up your mind to the realm of possibilities. AI and technology is allowing us to explore possibilities that weren't previously available. And the depth of knowledge that we can gain from across the globe and apply locally is enormous now compared to what used to be. And that's very much, I think, the first philosophy challenge the brief challenge the assumption and move forward from that point. But then I would come back to those three words. I think the place to concentrate the mind is electrification, I think, leads to a huge amount of opportunity. Connectivity is this sort of the neural brain, if you like, of a city that really, I think, enables you to manage it better, but most importantly frees people's time up. You know, you just think of the delays on transport systems that can be dealt with, if you like, through better connected systems. Instantly, you've created more time for the citizens of that city. Time to spend thinking, time to spend enjoying the city, if you like. So all of those sorts of things mean a huge amount of. Because the third word is the human condition. Cities are for humans. They should respond to human need, not the other way around. And I think for too long in history, we've perhaps conceived of cities as these kind of physical systems which humans have to adapt to. Actually, I think we're very much in a position now where we can design for humans and with human psychology in mind, and what makes it more livable, more accessible as a place that you want to be in, as a citizen, as a human living there.
Andrew Tuck
My thanks to Jerome Frost there in conversation with Josh Fennert. Next, we're off to Spain. Malaga has transformed itself over the past two decades from a gateway to the Costa del Sol into one of Southern Europe's most quietly confident cities. But with more than 26 million airport passengers a year, record property prices and a surge in cruise tourism, the question now is how to manage success without losing control. Monocle's contributor Ian Wylie visited Malaga to explore how the city's mayor, architects, artists and restaurateurs are navigating this decisive second
Jerome Frost
act
Ian Wylie
on the Alameda principle. In Malaga, parakeets are a familiar sight and sound loud, invasive and oddly symbolic. This morning I watched one tussle with a pigeon over a piece of crusty loaf, neither willing to give ground. Malaga is a city enjoying extraordinary success. And as tourists and locals jostle for space in the city centre, Malaga is wrestling with how its success is impacting everyday life. Over the past two decades, Malaga has reinvented itself from overlooked port to cultural, tech and tourism hub. Its airport now handles more than 26 million passengers a year. Tourism spending across the Costa del Sol exceeds 21 billion euros. House price rises in Malaga are among the fastest in Spain. So this is no longer a city chasing growth, it's a city trying to manage it.
Andrea Reina
We have here maybe some kind of my paintings.
Ian Wylie
Andrea Reina is a young, large scale abstract painter with the Studio in Trinidad, a working class neighbourhood just north of the center.
Andrea Reina
My work is inspired by the light and Mediterranean landscape and I was working before with the theme of the sea and the beach and all of that. But now I'm looking more into nature, like in the feminine experience. And I'm really inspired by Malaga poetas like poetry, like Maria Sombrano.
Ian Wylie
Maria Victoria Tencia Reyna paints expansive canvases shaped by Mediterranean light and rhythm. She is able to rent this studio thanks to support from Pro Malaga, an incubator of the local council and independent gallery La Casa Amaria. But like many artists, she says housing costs have narrowed her options for where she can live.
Andrea Reina
I think Malaga is a city in cultural motion and constantly moving. I think it's great to work here and also to live. Sometimes it's difficult to work as an artist because maybe there are a lot of opportunities here. It's undeniable. Artists here are really helped by other artists. And also tourism is Something great for us, because I think it's a great economic source. But I think sometimes Malaga is forgetting about artists, sometimes local artists. Malaga is positioning as a cultural point internationally, but also this leads to something really difficult for us. It's the high rents. I live in La Trinidad because I live with my mother and I can't afford any other thing here. It's really difficult.
Ian Wylie
I think a few streets away, the same pressures surface in different ways. At Paladu, a recently Michelin starred restaurant near the Atarazanas market, chef and co founder Chris Christine Canovas and her sister Anna, who is Paladou sommelier, are preparing for lunch service.
Cristina Canovas
She said that we start in the other location outside for the city center, in University, in the Atinos, we stay with the gastro bar and we want to change everything, like our cuisine, our gastro gastronomy and change here to the city center because there are more tourists here.
Ian Wylie
Paladu is one of just four restaurants in Malaga with Michelin stars. And its menu draws on recipes handed down by Cristina and Anna's mother and grandmother. Dishes that were once eaten daily and now reworked with care. So if I was to walk around the other restaurants here, what would I in the.
Cristina Canovas
Of the restaurant here? Yeah, the other restaurant for the city center is more for tourists. It's more paella, fried fish, but it's not the real cuisine from Malaga.
Ian Wylie
Restaurants like Paladu are attracting visitors to Malaga from across Andalucia as well as further afield. But the city's success is proving inflationary.
Cristina Canovas
It's all. All the things are more expensive with the local malagheno, like houses, like supermarkets. Everything is so expensive and local customers don't stay outside all day. The problem is with the staff too, because people can't work here because it's too expensive.
Ian Wylie
These tensions and pressures land squarely on the desk of Malaga's mayor Francisco de la Torre, or Paco, to his friends and close colleagues. We meet him at City hall, overlooking
Francisco de la Torre
the port Yoshin Pre Pensado. Always my study was to make the city for the citizen, for the Maragano. But the city for the Maranhos is very nice, very good. Then the people out know I want to walk. That's the problem. What is the solution? To attract especially not many tourists, but the high quality, the excellence, tourism of quality. That is the best solution.
Ian Wylie
As he talks, he sketches constantly. Housing blocks, traffic flows, looping lines of the Guadalmedina river. De la Torre has been mayor here for almost 25 years. He's 83 now with a doctorate in agronomic engineering and a reputation for long term incremental thinking, he has overseen Malaga's transformation from functional gateway to the Costa del Sol into a city with year round cultural and economic pool. The Picasso, Pompidou and Carmentisen museums have anchored a cultural offer with staying par, while nanotechnology firms, research centres and international business schools have joined an economy once reliant entirely on tourism. The city has stuck to the same strategy and long term objectives, de la Torre maintains, allowing Malaga to invest steadily in public spaces, pedestrianization and livability. Rather than chasing short term wins. Those policies have revived the historic center and annual hotel occupancy in Malaga City is 84%, well above the national average. But success has brought consequences. Half a million cruise passengers now arrive annually, swelling the city, but critics argue, contributing little beyond congestion. De la Torre insists that the city's next phase will be defined less by growth than by control. The solution is not more tourists, he says, but better quality tourism with greater spending capacity. He recognizes that for many Malaguinos, the direst issue is house prices, which rose 25% last year, with foreign buyers accounting for a third of purchases. In response, the city has frozen new tourist apartment licenses in central districts and plans a tax on short term rentals. The revenue, says de la Torre, will be funneled into rent subsidies for locals on low incomes. The mayor wants to accelerate house building in the city, but he laments the limits of municipal power. Malaga has land for around 6,000 homes that are ready to be built, but plots for another 28,000 remain tied up in planning. Local governments in Spain have responsibility, but not the par, de la Torre says. And the mayor has one final ambition before retiring to rejuvenate the Guadalmedina riverbed, an unsightly gash that divides the city. His plans would create a mile long green corridor above an underground road link to Malaga's booming port. But at a cost of 300 million euros, it will need national and European funds.
Francisco de la Torre
Wait, no. Pecoratore was a very good intuition.
Ian Wylie
Architect Salvador Moreno Peralta has advised Malaga and its mayors for decades. He bemoans the civic and political inability to have fixed long standing issues like the Guadal Medina. Peralta and de la Torre have clashed many times, and yet, he says, the mayor is often on the front row of his lectures. He applauds him for doing a good job on branding Malaga, focusing on the image of a tourist capital with a strong cultural identity, the birthplace of Picasso, and for breaking through the layer of provincial invisibility. But Peralta is critical that too many cities are transforming their centers into tourist destinations, not places for residents. Locals, he argues, are no longer neighbors, but extras in some kind of urban theatre production. Peralta argues that growth must spread beyond the historic core or risk hollowing it out. His prescription is for Malaga to become a city region like Milan or Santa Clara.
Francisco de la Torre
In the same way you have been discovered, you could be undiscovered because you're fragile. You're fragile. Well, this is the problem of Malaga.
Stephane Ruiz
An ancient convent of nuns, Moja Nazarenas, and we have renovated during 10 months just to have it finished for September.
Ian Wylie
Education forms another pillar of Malaga's recalibration. French business school ESKA has just opened a Spanish campus here in a converted convent. Director Stephane Ruiz says the city's higher education expansion has been strategic rather than accidental, and that ESKA chose Malaga because of the city's tech ecosystem and quality of life. Students from 15 different nationalities already study here.
Stephane Ruiz
And Malaga, why Malaga? Malaga is a super interconnected city, so the airport is one of the biggest in Spain and also it's an international city with lots of opportunities and it's a tech hub. So all the cybersecurity, innovation, AI metaverse, all the big innovation waves creates a lot of employment and opportunities for our students. That's why we are here.
Ian Wylie
But Ruiz is clear eyed about the
Stephane Ruiz
issues and I think it's the gentrification phenomena, but also because of tourism of tourist apartment, you know, comparing in Malaga 10 years ago, the apartments are double. So for the locals it's true that it's tension, so we need to simplify all the administrative regulation. I know, I heard that there's a lot of investors, so the money is there, the demand is there, but we need to hurry up the administrative issues to really start the projects of residencies, etc. And for me it's not really a challenge, but I see that the city of Malaga should move from a pure tech hub. So the demand is mostly it people to more, you know, having headquarters. And I think that Malaga needs more this type of, you know, the evolution of the multinational that not only have here tech and R&D department, but also other type of business units, or hopefully
Ian Wylie
for Neil Hesketh, a journalist with the English language edition of local newspaper Diary usur, Malaga's transformation has been dizzying.
Neil Hesketh
When I first sort of landed, I actually wanted to go live in Seville because I was really quite upset to be here because, you know, I felt you know, Malaga was a bit run down. It wasn't mainstream. And I felt that Seville, you know, a couple of hours up the road, was more traditional, authentic. And how wrong I was, because really, the city has woken up. I mean, Malaga was never a tourist city. When people arrived at the Costa del Sol and came out of Malaga airport, they turned right and went to places like Torre Molinos and Fangarola. And Malaga was the sort of dormitory city where the gnarly fingered workers went home from the hotels and lived at night. It was largely forgotten, despite having a very interesting history. And really, it just started waking up. And I think it coincided with this great awakening of cultural tourism, that people wanted to go on holiday more, but they wanted city breaks. They wanted two or three days in Edinburgh, in Bath, in Rome or wherever they're going. And Malaga, you know, where better than spending a warm city break where you're going to get some sun by beach as well. I think it also coincided with connectivity. You know, there's a flight to Malaga to Britain or Ireland every 15 minutes. I mean, more than some bus routes in parts of the uk. And I think the third thing, they had this very progressive, very sort of homegrown, homespun mare, Francisco Della Torre, who really realized that Malaga was a diamond in the rough.
Ian Wylie
But Hesketh says pride in Malaga's new confidence coexists with unease about displacement, congestion, and who the city is ultimately being reshaped for.
Neil Hesketh
What we really need to encourage is a new generation to come through now, because these people have done great things for the city at their time, but it's time now to pass it on fairly quickly. And I think that's the general view around the city. Job well done. But who's next?
Andrew Tuck
A report there by Ian Wylie in Malaga. And that's all for this week's episode of the Urbanist. You can find out more about both of these stories and many others in the latest issue of Monocle magazine, which is out now on newsstands. The Urbanist is produced by Carlotta Ravello and by David Stevens, who also edits this show. I'm Andrew Tuck. Goodbye and thank you for listening, city lovers.
Podcast: The Urbanist
Host: Andrew Tuck (Monocle)
Date: February 26, 2026
This episode of The Urbanist examines the complexities of urban transformation, focusing on two stories featured in Monocle's March issue. First, the show features a conversation with Jerome Frost, CEO of global engineering firm Arup, on the intersections of design, technology, and social usefulness in city-making. The spotlight then shifts to Málaga, Spain, a city that has radically reinvented itself from a functional port to a cultural and tech hub. The episode explores how Málaga's success is being managed—and what is at stake for residents, artists, businesses, and policymakers as property values and tourism boom.
Segment: 00:11–16:45
“There are lots of different ways to live in them. How hard is it to get away from the idea of good design form, fox function, one size fits all solutions?”
— [02:50], Josh Fennert
“It can be efficient, but it’s got to be lovable. And that sometimes involves beauty and a bit of grit as well.”
— [06:35], Fennert
Segment: 16:45–31:22
“This is no longer a city chasing growth, it’s a city trying to manage it.”
— [17:30], Wylie
“Artists here are really helped by other artists. And also tourism is … great for us… But I think sometimes Málaga is forgetting about artists, sometimes local artists… I live with my mother and I can’t afford any other thing here.”
— [19:39], Reina
“All the things are more expensive with the local malagueño, like houses, like supermarkets. Everything is so expensive and local customers don’t stay outside all day. The problem is with the staff too, because people can’t work here because it’s too expensive.”
— [21:54], Cristina Canovas
“What is the solution? To attract especially not many tourists, but the high quality, the excellence, tourism of quality. That is the best solution.”
— [22:30], de la Torre
“Job well done. But who’s next?”
— [30:58], Hesketh
Throughout, the tone is thoughtful, optimistic, but clear-eyed regarding the trade-offs of rapid growth and the socioeconomic “cost” of urban success. Frost and Tuck are measured and analytical; the Málaga segment blends journalistic observation with direct, sometimes poignant testimony from artists, restaurateurs, civic leaders, and observers—all expressing a complex pride tinged with worry about displacement and identity.
The episode leaves listeners with a nuanced perspective: Great city-making is collaborative, rooted in curiosity, and must balance global best practices with fiercely local needs. Málaga’s story is emblematic—a success with consequences, a city “woken up” but now needing to decide not just how to grow, but for whom.