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- [00:12]
Carlos Moedas
There's something that you cannot describe that some call the soul of the city that represents that identity. And that is, for me, crucial as a mayor, to maintain that identity. Because even if you're someone that come from outside or you come and visit, you want to see that. You don't want to see a city like all other cities.
- [00:31]
Andrew Tuck
How are mayors helping to shape the real estate sector in their cities? This is the Urbanist Monocle's program, all about the cities we live in. And I'm your host, Andrew Tuck. And this week we report from Cannes, where we're going to meet the mayors and the deputies in attendance at the world's leading real estate event, mipim, which has been taking place over the past few days. From Turku to Genoa, Lisbon to Rome, we discuss what challenges cities in Europe face and what opportunities these centres offer for new and exciting projects. Plus, we hear from London's deputy mayor for housing and residential development and Bologna's deputy mayor for urban planning too. That's all ahead right here on the Urbanist, with me, Andrew Tuck. So welcome to this episode, which this week is coming to you from Cannes. As the Urbanist team descended the upon the French Riviera to attend mipim, the world's largest urban festival. Among the crowd there are planners, architects, investors and, of course, city leaders. For our first episode out of Cannes, we wanted to focus on them, to hear how their cities are faring. One of the first leaders to stop by our radio studios inside the Palais des Festivals was Carlos Moedas, the mayor of Lisbon. His city has seen a remarkable transformation over the past decade, becoming a hub for entrepreneurs and expats, and growing numbers of visitors too. Mayor Moedas spoke to me and Monocle's Carlot Rebelo, and I began by asking how the mayor deals with the welcome challenge of managing Lisbon's growing appeal.
- [02:08]
Carlos Moedas
To have a city that attracts so much talent is fantastic because I think that cities today compete for talent, but then you have to invest a lot in social welfare to basically counterbalance the idea that people come to your city, the real estate prices increase, that there's like two separate cities. So I always said from the beginning of my mandate, my first mandate, that I would invest always for each euro. I invest in culture or I invest in innovation or technology. I invest tenfold in social welfare. And that means, for me, really investing in very basic, concrete things for people.
- [02:49]
Carlota Rebelo
So.
- [02:49]
Carlos Moedas
So in Lisbon, for people over 65, you have an insurance plan, a health plan, or they can contact a doctor, they can call, they can have the doctor at home for free, or everything that we've done in the last four or five years of investing in housing in Lisbon. Today, 12% of our population live in housing from the municipalities. So we own more than 22,000 apartments in Lisbon. And we are increasing and investing not just on social housing, but affordable housing. And so I always have this base of, like, what I call the social welfare local state instead of the social welfare national state. And I think that the social welfare today is much more dependent on cities than on national governments. And so Lisbon is that kind of city where, like, the first thing, or 80, 90% of my job is about social welfare and not about selling the city or real estate or investment. Because Lisbon became this sport where people feel so good and they feel they belong. And I want them to be there because diversity is the most important ingredient for innovation, for technology, for creativity. And that is very important for me. So I cannot let friction in the middle of diversity.
- [04:11]
Carlota Rebelo
That makes me think about the last
- [04:13]
Andrew Tuck
10, five years have been huge for
- [04:14]
Carlota Rebelo
urban regeneration in Lisbon.
- [04:17]
Andrew Tuck
But one of the things that attracts
- [04:19]
Carlota Rebelo
so many people to your city is the traditional character, the identity of the neighborhoods. So how do you also balance keeping tradition while promoting regeneration and modernity?
- [04:30]
Carlos Moedas
I think there's something that Lisbon is very unique. When I compare Lisbon to other cities, there's something that you cannot describe that some call the soul of Lisbon. There's like a soul of the city that represents that identity. And that is, for me, crucial as a mayor to maintain that identity. Because even if you're someone that comes from outside or you come and visit, you want to see that. You don't want to see a city like all other cities, with the same shops and the same brands. You want to see that identity of Lisbon. Unfortunately, there was a law at the government that basically cut all the licensing process for most of the shops. And I'm fighting against the government to put back that in the hands of the municipalities. So I can really avoid streets where we just have the same brands and the same kind of shops. I mean, no one likes that. And I think also the people that live in Lisbon, Lisbon is a very cosmopolitan city. 30% of the population is not Portuguese, was not born in Portugal. They are part of the city. They also want that identity of the city. So we have the different programs for the local shops and the local commerce, but we also are at a point where we really are giving the shops that exist in some neighborhoods to the neighbors. So if you live in a municipal neighborhood and you want to create Your own business, we give it for free. And that has been a very successful thing because a lot of those shops were empty. So now we are doing it. And it's a fantastic thing for the local people to create their own cafe or like tailors, and they have little shops of everything that you can imagine, and they create also their own business with the identity of the city.
- [06:15]
Andrew Tuck
Over the last 15 years, one of the most fascinating things has been how Lisbon as a city has embraced its waterfront, has gone back down to the water, reimagined what that can be, with amazing new museums reimagining old industrial buildings. Is there more to be done there as well? Is there more capacity for cultural centres, for housing, for embracing the waterfront?
- [06:38]
Carlos Moedas
A lot of things to be done. Probably the biggest one, that is a little bit of my dream for Lisbon. We have this train that comes from Estoril to Lisbon and it cuts the city in between the river and the city. And so we have to think about how we can basically do a tunnel or put it below ground so people can really touch and go from one side to the other side. So that's a project that is of course, not the project that I can do from one day to another. It's like a 10, 15 year project. That is something that for me is crucial because in parts of like Belem, people cannot even go to the other side. I mean, they have to go around and all that. So for me, that's probably one of the biggest projects for the next 10 years. The second is on transportation to have a tram that goes from the Teredo do Paso, like in the middle to the east. So we are building a new tram that was basically since 1960s, that we had no new tram line that would connect these places. So, you know, it's alive and kicking. And there's still a lot of projects done by privates and also publicly in Marvilla, in Biato, which are like parts of the city that 10 years, 15 years ago, you know, it were abandoned. And now they're people that come from all over the world with different ideas. And I think that Lisbon, it's really at its top. And I just have to be very careful. Keeping at the top is more difficult to get to the top. So how do you manage? That is my day to day.
- [08:12]
Carlota Rebelo
This return to the waterfront makes me
- [08:14]
Andrew Tuck
think a lot about the issue of resiliency and sustainability.
- [08:18]
Carlota Rebelo
We know that Lisbon, historically, the famous earthquake that redefined so much of the. The Lisbon of today, as you return to the waterfront and as this development happens, what are some of the resiliency
- [08:31]
Andrew Tuck
initiatives that are happening when you build to ensure you know that you have
- [08:35]
Carlota Rebelo
a city that will endure natural disaster and the climate crisis?
- [08:39]
Carlos Moedas
We probably have the biggest adaptation work to climate change in Europe. Today. We decided to go ahead in 2022 with two huge tunnels that are below ground, 70 meters, 40 meters below ground. Because Lisbon is about the ups and downs. Was a city that was built in a basin of rivers. You know, some of our neighborhoods, like seven Rivers, Ceterillos, so you have to get the water to the tunnel so you don't have floods. And so we created these tunnels. And of course, these past events that we had in the last months. Lisbon was much better than other cities. And so we have really invested is more than 150 million. And I'm very proud of that because very few cities had the courage, I think London now there's a similar tunnel in London. But very few cities are doing adaptation work.
- [09:32]
Andrew Tuck
A flash point for many cities, tourism management. You have a cruise ship business that brings people right into the heart of the city. You have a large number of people who they just want to be in Chiado, really. They just want to be downtown, they want to be in the bars, in the restaurants. How do you mitigate against that? Again, because it's important for you, for your voters, you know that they probably have some questions about this. We like the revenue. We often meet very nice people this way. It's good for some people. But how do we spread it out? How do we move it across the months? What kinds of things are you thinking of as a city leader?
- [10:04]
Carlos Moedas
What I've tried to redesign. So when we increase the tourist tax, etc, but the tourist tax people pay per night, as you know, they used to pay €2. Now they pay €4 in hotels in Lisbon, the cruise ships, for the first time ever are paying also. For each passenger, they pay also these €4. We are creating electric docks. So when the cruise ships stop in Lisbon, they basically put off all the fuel engines and they have to be connected to electricity. So that's the pollution side. One of the things that I've looked into was that people would not be all in the same place at the same time. Because let's face it, lisbon is a 575,000 people city. But there's a million people that get into the city every day. So imagine you have to get all the infrastructure for a million people to getting out. And in those people are not all tourists. Tourists are about 40,000 of that million that get in Every day in the city, city. So it's also relative, but those tourists all go to the same places. So I've created a journey into contemporary and modern art. Next, actually to the river. We've created two new museums, one from a very, very amazing artist called Giulian Sarmento. He was one of our biggest contemporary artists, and another one from modern art. And so then I created another museum from Almada Negredos, also a contemporary modern art artist and an amazing man in a place that was totally abandoned, where you have all the story of the refugees of the Second World War that passed by Lisbon. And so my point is that you have to create different cultural events and different parts of the city that people go there. So it's about getting people to different parts of town. I think that it's the only way you can manage.
- [12:04]
Andrew Tuck
Lisbon Mayor Carlos Moedas there, speaking to myself and of course, Carlota Rebelo. Next, we turn our focus to the Finnish coastline and to the nation's second city of Turku, which sits to the west of the capital, Helsinki. The city is growing at a rapid pace, with nearly 4,000 people a year moving to Turku, as Mayor Pierre Ello told us. She joined me earlier and I began by asking Pierre, what is so special about her city.
- [12:35]
Carlota Rebelo
We call it sort of, why would you go to Paris if you can come to Turku? Well, we are an Old City, 800 years returning in 2029. We have 210,000 people and 50,000 of them are students.
- [12:49]
Carlos Moedas
Students.
- [12:50]
Carlota Rebelo
So you can really see young people, vibrant city. And we've really invested in culture, so you can see that in the atmosphere, too.
- [13:00]
Andrew Tuck
You're well known for education. Shipbuilding is a big asset. And in Finland, there's an interesting move to try and even make shipbuilding carbon neutral to change its traditional ways. But that's embedded in your whole city. Turku has one of the most ambitious targets in Europe by 2029 to be carbon neutral. Are you going to make that?
- [13:22]
Carlota Rebelo
I think we are, yes. We're very proud of our goal of carbon neutrality, 2029, and we trying to make a new tramway. That's a decision that we're going to make this spring. So that's something to attract more people on public transport. And we're building like whole new lanes and roads for that. So that would attract even more people to use either tram or your bike or walk if the streets are more attractive. So it really much depends on that too, whether we can get that done. But I'm really hoping and looking forward to having that Decision make this spring.
- [14:02]
Andrew Tuck
Tell me, how do you fund all of this? I go to other cities around the world. We can't put in a new tram. It would be nice, but it's incredibly expensive. Are you dependent on central government stepping up to help you make this transition? Or are you. Is it a very high rate of city tax for people who live within? How do you fund it?
- [14:22]
Carlota Rebelo
I would say that we depend on the government, of course, also because it has supported other cities doing the tramways. So we are hoping on that. But then also taxing and also investment. That's why we're here. We're trying to attract, of course, investments and that way to get more money moving in Turku so that we can have more jobs, more people moving in and getting more taxis, of course.
- [14:49]
Andrew Tuck
Tell me. It shouldn't be remarkable, but I'll remark on it anyway. We've met a previous mayor of Turku, a female leader of the city. You're a female leader. You were telling me that the head of the church in the city is a female. The head of the. The education system, the university. University is a woman. Is that even in Finland? An interesting story.
- [15:07]
Carlota Rebelo
Even in Finland. It's an interesting story that hasn't happened in anywhere else except in Turko. We really investing on well being and sustainability. That's something that we really work on. On the cultural atmosphere of tolerance. That's something strong that we work on. It's something that hasn't happen in other cities. We're growing really fast. We're very attractive in Finland. We're the fastest growing city in Finland. And I would say that we invest also a lot on the services like schools, safety, all those that make the city safe and good place to live in. So it's not only about investment, but it's also how the city can support the people that live there. We're really future oriented at the moment. We're really looking forward to what kind of city we're building, what kind of city we want it to be in the future. It's a very long site. It's not just about today and how much long we have today, but what kind of city we can be. And that's something that I think it has changed in the years. And now it's very much looking forward to the future and how we can attract different businesses, how we can build a humane city, how we can build a city where it's very good to do your business, it's very safe, but we can also provide good living for the students so that they would stay there, that there would be a high education, people with capabilities to build something new.
- [16:41]
Andrew Tuck
PIER elo, MAYOR OF TURCO DA
- [16:46]
Carlos Moedas
well,
- [16:46]
Andrew Tuck
one of the other leaders throwing their weight around was the retired Olympic hammer thrower turned mayor of Genoa, Sylvia Salas. She was here to explain how she is re engineering her Mediterranean city to make it appealing to young residents by delivering 40,000 units of student housing and leaning into the lure of sports. I began by asking about the challenges that she thinks Jenner faces as they try to grow and develop.
- [17:14]
Sylvia Salas
Genova needs renovation, needs to look at the future with hope and with projects. We have to consider that our city is one of the highest average cities in Europe. So the challenge is to talk to young people to convince them to stay in Genova and to invest in Genova for this reason. We need a good balance in the relationship between the public and the private for investment and development of new projects. I think that one of the focus points are the numbers of our university that could grow a lot in the future. So we have to invest on student housing and we have to find a cultural and events program for young people. We have to attract the. We want them to be happy in our city. So I think that the highest goal is to make the young people feel involved in our city.
- [18:15]
Andrew Tuck
You're a former Olympian, so it's not surprising that perhaps you understand how sport, for example, can be used to make the city more attractive. You have a couple of big projects coming up. Perhaps you could just tell listeners about what you have planned.
- [18:28]
Sylvia Salas
I think that sport, sport is one of the most powerful tools in the world to develop a city. I was an Olympian, as you said, and then for years and years I was the deputy vice president of the National Olympic Committee. And so I lived through sport events. So I perfectly understand the role of the world sport in cities and in countries. We have four, four main projects. The first one is the redevelopment and rebuilding of our biggest stadium, Luigi Ferraris, the stadium in which Genoa and Sandoria plays. And it's important because it's a fascinating stadium in the middle of the city and it's a wonderful stadium. And we want to have a new stadium in which you could watch a football match, but even a concert or a big event in other kind of sports. Then we have Carlini stadium, is a multifunctional stadium in the city too. And we want to have it new to look at the future with a structure that could help the city in living their days through sport. And then we have a project that talks about tourism too, and is Granaroloid and Begato Sport Park. We want to have a big sport park from top of the hill in front of Genoa with mountain biking, trekking with climbing, with a lot of sports. And so a sport hill. It speaks about green tourism, it speaks about sport and it speaks to young people. At the last one is a health care and social program. Even if it's a sport program and is a senior sport project, free sport for people over 65 years. I told you that Genoa is the city with the highest average age in Europe. And so we have to think about projects that could help people in their third age to face the future in good shape.
- [20:38]
Andrew Tuck
Every city is thinking about quality of life. You're an interesting city because you're one of the most ancient Italian cities. You sit on the water, but traditionally part of the city has been cut off from that water by the highway, is part industrial, as you said, it's an education center. Are you trying to think of other ways that you reconnect to nature and to the water as well around the city?
- [20:59]
Sylvia Salas
I think that the Granarobegato Sports park, it's a big project and a wonderful idea to connect the city to sport and to open air and to the green way of life. We are in front of the sea. We are by the sea, in the sea. Genova lives of its sea. I think that we have this soul. And so the most important things are services, transportation and cultural and sport and social projects to make the people live better, better in our city.
- [21:32]
Andrew Tuck
And finally, we talk all the time about human centric design, how we get ordinary people to feel that the city is being designed around them. As you say, many young people don't want to be involved in politics, don't want to maybe speak to their mayor or their parliamentarian. So how do you begin to bring people into a conversation when sometimes they think, ah, nothing's going to change?
- [21:51]
Sylvia Salas
Genoa is organized in Munichipi leader part of the city that combined make Genova. And we want to give more respect and more money and more independence to this Munichipi because they know better what is happening around them. And another project that I find really important, it's called city of 15 minutes. It means that we have to construct services in a way in which in 15 minutes we you can get to them. And Genoa is a polycentric city. It has many historical centers. And so we just don't have one center of the city. We have to underline the importance of every historical center. Building this city of 15 minutes. So it's really Important for us that services stay close to the people.
- [22:47]
Andrew Tuck
Silvia Salas Mayor of Genoa. We stay in Italy next and turn our attention to the capital, Rome. Now don't be distracted by the Colosseum and the city's rich history, because Rome is also rapidly becoming a modern city that wants to position itself as a tech hub for Europe and is investing heavily in mobility and greening. Mayor Roberto Gualtieri stopped by our studio earlier and I began by asking where Rome finds itself today in the story of the city.
- [23:22]
Roberto Gualtieri
Probably not many people know that Rome is 12 times larger than Paris and it has 70 kilometers of coastline. So it's a very large city. That's because for historical reason, it's an imperial basis, not middle age compact city. So it is a lot of space. It's a green city city, of course, with a more most important heritage of archaeology, beautiful sites that sometimes is a problem. But this can become an asset because our new metro station, for instance in Colosseum, is a metro museum and is collecting visitors not just to use the station as a station, but just to go there and see the museum inside the metro station. So this also antique part, ancient part, is properly managed and in place, can become an asset. And we are also realizing new museums and new archaeological promenade around Colosseum, which will be fantastic. But of course, Rome has a lot of transformation areas and it's a city in full transformation. We have been investing billions in public investment and attracting tens of billions in private investment. So it's a city which is an amazing pace of transformation, also because people are getting more trust because we deliver. And that is also a strong message we want to send.
- [24:39]
Andrew Tuck
Just tell me the two or three things that are top of mind for you. When you go to work in the morning, when you cross your city, is it public transport? Is it about creating a city that's more resilient to heat because of the greening of spaces? Tell me the two or three things you think. These are the things that we must
- [24:55]
Roberto Gualtieri
push, push, push on pushing a lot of public transportation. We are opening now under 6 station construction for the metro. We are investing a lot of billions in accessibility of the city with metro tram, train and new buses. We have a climate adaptation program undergoing which is extremely ambitious. We are planting 1 million trees in Rome also because Rome is the most green city in Europe. 1/3 of the surface of Rome is parks, one third is agriculture, one third is. So Rome is also the biggest agricultural city of Europe. And this green part is a strong asset. We are investing a lot on to improve the quality of life of citizens. So opening new parks, planting trees and improving our coastline. We have a fantastic project where we create a dune park on our coast. Construction will start in June to make more attractive our sea because it's clean, it's beautiful beaches. And so these for us also improving our naturalistic part for us is absolute priority. But also technology. We are investing a lot in digital infrastructure. We have 5G connectivity process of investment undergoing. The metro will be fully connected underground with 5G in the next months. We have above the ground the 5G, the IoT cameras. We are using AI and all this tool to have digital twin improve the quality of our services. So Rome is also becoming an environment very attractive also from this point of view also because we have a lot of industry in advanced sectors. And one of the other projects I presented is an investment hub for startups in the area of quantum computing, AI, new materials and biotech that we are going to realize in Rome.
- [26:38]
Andrew Tuck
Because you have a huge number of incredible universities that sit within Rome. So you. You see yourself as a contemporary, modern knowledge hub as well then?
- [26:46]
Roberto Gualtieri
Absolutely. That's Rome is a university city. Sometimes people just think about Colosseum and Sistine Chapel. But we have 250,000 university students in Rome. In some of the area I made just the example of quantum computing. We are world leader in research and innovation. That's why a lot of companies are establishing their headquarters here. We have aerospace, we have life sciences and health industrial sector, very advanced. So we want also to push this dimension and the fact that our administration is becoming more technological. We created a chatbox for citizens and tourists with certified data, real time information, with the best AI technology, but reliable information. And in June, citizens will be able to have an agent, AI agent to do paperwork for them. So we want to show that Rome is the past, but also the future.
- [27:34]
Andrew Tuck
So part of your job then is explaining to people, especially outside of Italy, maybe a contemporary vision of what that city is. Because to attract investment, all of those things you're listing, that's a leap forward for Rome. So as much of the work you're finding yourself to is going to business leaders, is going to investors, saying you've got your impression of Rome. But let me really explain to you what's going on in our city.
- [27:58]
Roberto Gualtieri
The added value that I think we offer is the fact that here you can have innovative, very advanced and modern renovation buildings, construction for residential, for logistics, for hoteliery. And the privilege is to be at the same time in a modern environment, but with Maybe a Roman aqueduct at a show that you can go and visit in five minutes Walk. And the beautiful park. So the quality of life in a dynamic modern environment.
- [28:27]
Andrew Tuck
Roberto Gualtieri there, mayor of Rome. We know that one of the most pressing urban issues of our time is housing, and London is not immune to that. City hall had big ambitions to address this escalating crisis, but nearly a decade later, the pace of construction has been incredibly slow. Tom Copley is London's deputy mayor for housing and residential development and he joined me early to talk about this problem. I began by asking what factors combined to put the London housing landscape in such a tough position.
- [29:01]
Tom Copley
We were, of course, affected by all of the issues affecting the whole country and in some cases the world. I mean, we were affected by rising construction costs and the cost of materials, affected by Brexit war in Ukraine, all of those things. But there are three things in particular that, that affected London disproportionately, largely because of the nature of our built environment. So there was, of course, the botched introduction of the building safety regulator, which led to enormous delays before spades could even go in the ground. And thankfully that is now being reformed under new leadership. And, you know, I'm hearing developers now coming to me saying, look, we got something through in 12 weeks, whereas previously it was sort of 60 weeks, no communication. Then, of course, there was the chaotic and haphazard introduction of, of new regulations around second staircases. This was a new rule brought in under the previous government that residential buildings over 18 meters in height would need a second staircase. They didn't publish any of the technical kind of requirements around that. And it did lead to a lot of developers stalling and saying, well, until we know exactly what we need to do, we're going to put developments on ice. So it caused a huge problem disproportionately in London because of the nature of our built environment, many buildings exceeding that height threshold. And the third thing, of course, was interest rates, which bites London particularly hard because a huge amount of finance needs to be taken on just to get development underway, but also massively impacting buyers and demand for housing as well. So those three things in particular really hammered us in London.
- [30:32]
Andrew Tuck
So just tell me, the target for building new units per year, it's meant to be around like 88,000, is that correct?
- [30:38]
Tom Copley
So the London plan target at the moment is 52,000, which is still the statute that's a recited, still the statutory target. But the target the government has announced is 88,000 homes per year. And we Fully expect that to be the target in the next London plan. And it's certainly in the terms of the next London plan we're looking at. The question is, how do we plan for 880,000 homes over 10 years?
- [31:00]
Andrew Tuck
And just tell me, when you looked at the number of units delivered last year, would it be fair to say that's in between like 4 or 5,000?
- [31:07]
Tom Copley
So the Molior data, which tracks private developments over 20 units, that's about 5 to 6,000 last year. Obviously that's not complete data, but certainly it is very far off for all the reasons that I've set it out, very far off from.
- [31:20]
Andrew Tuck
Just so everyone understands the basecamp. So you have these opportunities now to try and up the number of units being bought. Just tell me. One of the things that I would imagine was a hard thing to discuss and a hard thing to take on was dropping also the number of affordable units that you're demanding of a developer, that they have in a project. So this has come down. Were some of those levers important for you to pull, even though they must be difficult because, you know, this is what you believe in, you believe in delivering affordable homes for Londoners. Just explain that, how you get your head around that, in a way, as a leader.
- [31:51]
Tom Copley
So, yes, I mean, of course, it's not the number so much as the proportion that we're asking for to have that fast track route through place. So in the London Plan, it's 35%. We're creating a new time limited emergency 20% threshold, recognising that where we are in 2026 is very far away from where we were in 2017 when that 35% route was introduced. But the reason why we're doing this is to recognise the challenges the sector have been through. And also because, to be frank, 20% of something is much better than 35% of nothing, or very little. And we think actually in terms of the overall numbers, what this will do is actually boost the number of affordable homes that we're getting, because it will mean more applications and more homes overall will be able to get through the planning system, start on site.
- [32:39]
Andrew Tuck
But you believe you can make that huge leap over the next 12 months, 18 months, you can get back almost on target. Do you think?
- [32:47]
Tom Copley
I think that when I talk about 2026 being a turnaround year, I think the trajectory at the end of this year is going to be going in the right direction. I think it's going to look very different from the trajectory last year. So I think this is about Putting us back on track and doing everything we can, pulling all the stops to move us as close as we can to the level of housing delivery that Londoners and the government would expect.
- [33:10]
Andrew Tuck
When you speak to developers now, how can you get them to think, maybe the profit margin is going to be a little bit less than I thought, but we just need to get going, we need to begin this process.
- [33:20]
Tom Copley
I do get the sense that the sector is really, really chumming at the bit to get on site and to get over the obstacles that the sector has faced recently. And we're doing everything we can to support that. I mean, as well as things in the emergency measures that I've covered, there are some new planning powers for the mayor to help to get more development going in London. We got some more funding through our new City Hall Developer Investment Fund. We've which is all about public private partnerships and being able to support the sector through things like equity investment and things like that. And we'll be using our Social and Affordable homes program to get more funding into developments to get that level of affordable housing up even beyond the 20%. Of course, we don't see 20% as a ceiling. We very much want to work with developers and the affordable housing sector to increase that proportion. So I think that we've got a lot between, between us, ourselves and the government to offer at the moment by way of support to get development going.
- [34:14]
Andrew Tuck
So finally, you look ahead over the next 18 months with obviously some positive sentiment. Can you give us one or two literal examples of happening in London now that you think, okay, here's a kind of project that's in play that is maybe changing the patterns of how people live, that's delivering different kinds of tenure. Is there an example that you can think of that comes to mind where you think, okay, this could potentially be the seeds of something important here?
- [34:37]
Tom Copley
Absolutely. I mean, I was at the groundbreaking the other week for a scheme at Bolo Lane, which is a joint venture between Barrett London and Places for London, which is TfL's property, are 900 homes, 50% of them affordable. And the largest passive house scheme in Europe on an old TFL railway site in Ealing. You know, I think that's a fantastic scheme that is literally just getting spades in the ground. I mean, one that's very close to my heart, of course, is Barking Riverside out in East London. I'm on the board of Barking Riverside because it's a joint venture between the GLA and lnq. We've got a planning application in now due to be determined on Monday by Barking Dagenham Council to increase the number of homes on that site from around 10,000 to 20,000. And that's going to have, you know, a great diversity, I think, both of tenure of typology and. And it's just a fantastic riverside location that's now really well connected because of the extension of the London overground and the extension of the Thames Clipper. Fantastic riverside location for people to live. So there are so many examples actually around London, I think, of these places that have enormous potential.
- [35:43]
Andrew Tuck
Tom Copley there, London's deputy mayor for housing and residential development. Finally, we put the focus on Bologna, a city once described as the Red City due to its communist administration, which has now become a bastion for education, social welfare, mobility and bridging the gap between communities. Raffaele Laudani is the deputy mayor for Bologna for urban planning and he joined me earlier. I started by asking him about the role of modern day Bologna as an independent incubator, not just of education, but for new companies as well.
- [36:22]
Raffaele Laudani
In recent years, Bologna has a new key strategic European hub on big data and artificial intelligence. We are hosting the second strongest supercomputer in the world for artificial intelligence, the so called Leonardo. And around it a new ecosystem of knowledge. Knowledge and technology is emerging. We have 80% of the computing capacity of the country, almost 30% of the European one. And there is an ecosystem of research centers and university that is already operating in a very small area, so in a quadrant of the city. So then actually what we are doing is redefine the overall policies of the city, cities around a flagship project of the administrative mandate that we call the City of Knowledge, which is redefining all the policies of the cities around this goal, also in terms of attractiveness of new startups and firms. What is again peculiar in our history, and even in this case, is that this is done with a cooperation with all the actors of the cities. So we always operate as a an integrated territorial system, public and private, and always the process of innovation is human centered. So when Bologna has become a vector of innovation, anticipating some national or international processes in its history, this has always been with a social impact. And here again that's the goal we are trying to develop in this flagship project, which is called the City of of Knowledge.
- [38:05]
Andrew Tuck
The glorious nature of many Italian cities is that they have these incredible centers which are hard to change and you don't really want to change them anyway, I'm sure. But then you have these often outlying districts that are built after the second World War maybe need more help and assistance. So what's happening in Bologna as you try and stitch together a modern city and come back to this idea of attractiveness, because, you know, you need to make not just the heart of the city cool and attractive, but the whole city, I guess.
- [38:33]
Raffaele Laudani
Well, some way we have to combine both things, because on the one hand, focusing also only on the historical center and then forgetting the rest of the city is a problem. But here again, our history and our tradition of urban planning, which is very peculiar, very important as a shape, actually urban planning on a national level.
- [38:55]
Andrew Tuck
Tell us what makes it become peculiar then?
- [38:57]
Raffaele Laudani
It's peculiar because it is politically governed. So the idea is that you have to govern processes, you have to put the social dimension at the earth of the development. So, for instance, in terms of the historical center, Bologna is famous for his plan for the historical center on the late 60s, which was a plan that has produced, on the one hand, the concept preservation of the historical patrimony, but on the others, the social dimension of it. If today in Bologna we still have 50,000 residents from different social classes living in the historical center, it was because of that plan, the idea of making the historical center livable for all. So on the one hand, we have to preserve this historical center. Bologna is experiencing, is part of global tourism efforts in terms. So we need, for instance, to regulate tourism and in particular short term rentals, because this can produce efforts in this social livability of the historical center.
- [40:05]
Andrew Tuck
Is that culinarity also because in the 70s and Bologna was associated a lot with the Communist party, it was a stronghold for communism. Even if that has changed a bit today, is that still embedded in a kind of the mentality, in a bit, a kind of social justice, a belief in sharing?
- [40:22]
Raffaele Laudani
Yes, of course, this is reimagined, facing the new challenges. But the idea that economic development, social justice, and nowadays also environmental justice has to work together, it is part of our way of governing cities. And this still remains. And again, we do it with the different actors of our territory. The idea that you have to combine economic development, private profits and social justice is something which is shared also by the private actors of the cities. Of course, it's more and more complicated to keep the balance between these two needs, but it's something we work on. And that's the reason why we think that we need to govern the processes in order to find the right balance between the two needs. So in the past, Bologna was famous for being the red communist cities, but actually that city developed the social welfare and has made of that territory, the first manufacture, manufacturing, economic district of the country and probably of Europe, together with Germany. So the combination of the two, social welfare and economic developments, it's something that. It's not necessary. In contradiction, if you work with a
- [41:47]
Andrew Tuck
vision, you are one of the first cities in Italy to bring in a 30 kilometer per hour speed limit. You've put in interesting tree canopy. You've been trying to green the city, which is a big appealing for residents and again for attractiveness. How is that process going? And is that again, when you're working in a more social way, is it difficult or easier to bring people along on that journey? If you get the buy in from people?
- [42:12]
Raffaele Laudani
It is complicated, but it's necessary. On the one hand, Italy, in terms of salaries or other kind of economic opportunities, is not competitive with other countries. So what we can offer is the quality of life. And quality of life means also the capacity to reduce inequalities, to reduce social conflicts. So working on that direction, creating a space which is livable with services, with support and with a mutualistic approach in facing problems, it's necessary also in terms of competitiveness and attractiveness. Of course, in order to do that, it's not easy. And it's sometimes for the citizen, it's complicated. We are finishing 23km of new tramways in four years, because of the next generation, new funds that gives you those funds and those contributions. But in four years you have to do things which is complicated in itself, especially in a country as. So if you come to Bologna now, it is. It is a mess of new. But we are finishing. By June we will be finished.
- [43:24]
Andrew Tuck
That's good. The deputy mayor says it's a mess.
- [43:27]
Raffaele Laudani
It's a mess because it is the old city. It is the old city that is under renovation. Because of that. And of course, for citizens, for the daily life, this has been tough years, but it is not done with the idea that this will produce huge effects on the city. And our territory is this way, so we suffer. Maybe people say, oh, this is. I don't like this. But then after that we will go together.
- [43:56]
Andrew Tuck
Raffaella Laudani, Deputy Mayor of Bologna for urban planning. Thank you for joining us. And that's Urban all for this week's episode of the Urbanist. We'll be back with part two of our coverage from MIPIM next week, so be sure to subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss out on anything. The Urbanist is produced by Carlos Rebelo and by David Stevens, who also edits the show. I'M Aannah Tuck. Goodbye and thank you for listening.
- [44:23]
Roberto Gualtieri
City lovers.
- [44:31]
Carlota Rebelo
Sat.