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- [00:12]
Andrew Tuck
Hello and welcome to the Urbanist, Monocle's program all about the built environment. I'm your host, Andrew Tuck.
- [00:18]
Anastasia Calinini
Coming up, what makes the city stick? What is it that makes them competitive in this day and age? Because we understand that the world is ever changing and things move in various directions. So we what are the critical factors in city competitiveness?
- [00:32]
Andrew Tuck
We're in Switzerland as the World Economic Forum takes over Davos for another year. Colette Rebelo is there this week and she brings us the most eye opening, urban focused conversations taking place in the mountains. Then we check in with the Holcun Foundation Awards, which recently announced their latest group of winners, to see who is leading the way in the field of sustainable construction. All that ahead in the next 30 minutes right here on the Urbanist with me, Andrew Tuck. We start today in the Swiss mountains where the popular ski resort town of Davos has been taken over as it is every year by the World Economic Forum. Monocle's Carlotta Rebello has been dispatched to this most important meeting of global leaders and she sent us this report on some of the urban lessons to be learned at this year's event.
- [01:30]
Carlotta Rebelo
It's not just geopolitics that dominates the conversation in Davos. Behind the noise, there are serious discussions taking place about how to create better, more livable cities and what role business leaders, local authorities and civil society can play in it. One of the institutions hoping to engage with the Davos crowd is the Nighttime foundation, which aims to bring together creators, industry and government to rethink the 24 hour city. I caught up with Mirik Milan, the former nightmare of Amsterdam and the co founder of Vibe Lab, and also with Georgia McDonnell Adams, who sits on the board of directors of the foundation to find out more about their work.
- [02:10]
Mirik Milan
The Nighttime foundation is a global nonprofit that supports the nighttime economy all around the world. And we really want to bring together creative communities, policymakers, but also institutions. We're presenting the Global Nighttime Economy report, which we've called Enter because a report that brings together more than 300 studies in the nighttime economy from all around the world. And there's not a unified approach when you look at the nighttime economy. And the reason why we felt it's important to be here at Davos is Nighttime governance is around now for 15 years. And thank you for all the support that Monaco has given us in sharing this knowledge. It's not something new, but for the people here, it's new. The report that we have just brought out, it shows that 3% of global GDP is connected to the nighttime economy. Some other figures, 3 to 4 trillion in annual impact, but also 1 in 10 people actually work in a nighttime economy. And that's not even the secondary jobs that are connected to it. So it's a very important space to operate in. And we, as in vibelab or the Nighttime foundation, we are always fighting for grassroots culture, for bottom up spaces, because really that's what makes cities unique.
- [03:17]
Carlotta Rebelo
How did you begin to even tackle how to split the night for this report?
- [03:22]
Mirik Milan
So after working for the last 10, 15 years in this space, we had the opportunity to travel to so many cities around the world. And you see the challenges are quite the same, but the opportunities always are different. We always say cities are on the same timeline, but in a different stage of development. And with now more than 100 cities that have appointed a nightmare Club Commission or similar position, we have learned that these factors really make sure that people can either work at night, that people can innovate, create culture. And these factors are all part of the nighttime infrastructure. And you need to have all these factors in place because really often we're still fighting a lot of stigmas. Often people, when they hear nighttime economy or nightlife, they're thinking about, you know, they're drinking and dancing. But it's much more than that. It's also how people get home safely. After gig workers or people working in hospitals, how do you get safe at home? And that's of course, I think a real driver. The night is a place to develop talent. Think about all your photographers, filmmakers, DJs, VJs. It's really a serious playground for creative professions and in cities. That's really what drives the local economy.
- [04:29]
Georgia McDonnell Adams
What we've also found through this report is that it also heroes and ripples down on other parts of the city. So we have a great part of the report here specifically talking about Berlin as a case study. And Berlin's Expat community contributes $26 billion a year to the economy, which is an astounding amount just by the expat community. And what we found through the research that we had a look at is that one of the reasons that people choose to live in Berlin is because of its vibrant nightlife scene. So what we're talking about here is not just the moment at nighttime, it's about how it ripple effects onto the rest of the economy, onto the day, and also enhances the city overall. And if we can start changing the language for people to understand that that life at night is beyond just the drinking and the dancing, but it actually has an effect on an overall city's vibrancy, then we're in a great place.
- [05:17]
Carlotta Rebelo
Well, it's interesting you mentioned language there because in recent years what we've seen that has contributed to that shift is instead of saying oh nightt economy is a 24 hour city and then suddenly everyone's on board because then the brain doesn't associate it just with the party side of night.
- [05:31]
Georgia McDonnell Adams
Exactly. And I think what's important as well to think about is that when it comes to investments with life at night, you know, we definitely need more investment within this space. You know, we've all seen the loneliness epidemic that is happening with our Gen Z generation at the moment. I heard today it's the largest living generation in the world that we have and, and they are the most connected but they are the most lonely. So they need these opportunities to be able to come out and socialize. So we need more diversification in what we offer them at nighttime because there is less drinking, they are doing other things. So how are we making sure that it's there? And I would say layer on top of that the cost of living crisis for this generation there really needs to be thought put into what is available for them. You know, how we're looking after them. And also we all remember our first jobs when we were younger going into that economy. So how are we looking at this from a really broad perspective is really important.
- [06:22]
Carlotta Rebelo
Mirik, I'm curious of course looking back at your previous role as Nightmare of Amsterdam, would a report like this and a resource like this have been helpful to you? Are you basically now delivering what do you wish you had when you had the position?
- [06:36]
Mirik Milan
Well, I definitely think you can say that definitely. When this movement, you know, it started earlier but when I started in 2012 really often we were always on the barricades if something would shut down, if there would be an issue. And what we try to do now is positions ourselves to be more on the forefront of policy development and having actual data and having actual figures to convince policymakers and leadership is a really valuable tool. And we feel as that culture should always be at the heart of these things. And especially what you are referring to as well is like definitely after Covid there is a very much a generation that have not been connected well, are connected, but are lonely. And if you stay only in your own echo chamber it doesn't create any resilience. So you need to also go out and socialize and meet new people and also with people with different cultural backgrounds. Let's be honest, we're living in a very conservative time. And these spaces that are very much under pressure need to be protected and needs to be advocated for.
- [07:32]
Carlotta Rebelo
When we talk about making better cities, making cities that have a better quality of life and are more inclusive, traditionally those conversations happen about the daytime. And this idea of the city as a public living room, an extension of our private homes, where we get to socialize with friends or family or whatever. A lot of that tends to be daytime. Oh, the park this or that. How do we bring that conversation and that same desire and concern into the nighttime? To exactly go to your point of combating loneliness and making sure it's safe to go from A to B? With my example of a park, it should be as safe at night as it is during the day.
- [08:09]
Georgia McDonnell Adams
I think it's about the spaces that are available in cities. I look at real estate as a good example. I think hotels are a great example. What are they doing during the night? They have these spaces that are doing nothing and how they can create it so that it becomes a community hub. I think we have to look at a city's infrastructure and understand what's available for use to begin with. And then how can we activate those spaces? Because there are so many areas available that aren't being utilized to the best way that do shut down, and yet they're there and they have the infrastructure behind it. Obviously we want to drive and scale other infrastructure to make sure that smaller spaces can be looked after as well. But I think there's some basics that can be done using the tools that cities already have available to them. Maybe you want to add to that, Mary?
- [08:49]
Mirik Milan
Yeah, no, just to piggyback of what you just said, I think the notion of third space, I think is becoming more and more essential in cities. I think also the introduction of the 24 hour license venues that we did in Amsterdam back in 2013, the goal was there to also make more efficient use of buildings. Not to have a raving nightclub for 24 7, but to have like a multidisciplinary space where all times of the day you could come together. And that also from a place making perspective, everybody that lives around these places, that it creates value for them. And this leads for us, in our opinion, we feel as though we have to reimagine who has the right to the night, who has the right to the public space. You know, because we know that in many cities around the world, not everybody has the same rights to the nighttime space. Multiple cities will have marginalized groups being harassed if they would use the public space for socializing, coming together and to do all kinds of things. So we've been working with an amazing studio, DS Force, our design studio for social intervention from Boston. And they are really good at reimagining the night and making sure that the public space is there for everyone.
- [09:52]
Carlotta Rebelo
Now WEF is all about getting FaceTime with partners and clients. Which is precisely why companies like global real estate and investment management firm JLL are in town. Among them is Neil Murray JLL, CEO of Real Estate Management Services. Neil oversees JLL's largest business line globally, which equates to managing nearly 5 billion square feet of real estate. He told me about the firm's approach to livability.
- [10:18]
Neil Murray
I think human beings have an innate desire for community and to participate in community and need one another. We need to be around one another. And so I always felt very positive about the future of office and how that would feed into company strategies. What we've actually seen is, I think, quite considerable change over the last number of years. We went from understanding that we could work in different ways and obviously some companies leaning into hybrid strategies or even full remote strategies, and then a realization that something was missing. I have a privileged position in my job. I get to look into the cultures of the biggest companies in the world from the outside in. I say to people, I'm not sure if it's entirely true what I say to people. If you put me in a room with a person from an investment bank or a life science company, don't tell me who they work for. Give me 15 minutes, I'll tell you who they work for. And that's sort of from being a bit of a student of culture and understanding the collective behaviors you see in our client organizations. The thing is, a culture will always emerge in an organization. The question is, are you in control or directing that culture to what you want it to be? And it's difficult to do remotely. So we've seen a number of clients lean into this notion of been really intentional about their space, what it stands for. It's a manifestation of who and what they are, of their ambitions, who they want to be. I think from being, I've used the term before, a factor of production once upon a time. The office is now something much more strategic in terms of central to a company's strategy.
- [11:48]
Carlotta Rebelo
Now I need to ask you about AI because it obviously dominates so many discussions that are happening here this week. And I am curious how that is affecting the sector as well. You know, is that dominance of AI in terms of the conversation also being felt in real estate, very much so.
- [12:03]
Neil Murray
I mean, not just in the first instance. It's our clients wrestling with their new talent needs, job profiles, talent profiles they'll need, and therefore the locations of that talent and what space they'll need and where. So that drives our business, obviously, but specifically for jll, I mean, we've had to lean in heavily to AI. Our clients want us to give them the very best advice. And real estate, as you can imagine, you mentioned 5 billion square feet of space. Think about the billions of data points that created around the management of that space. Everything from lease data, rent data, energy performance, work order performance, valuations, every element of real estate, and having the ability to pull together that disparate data and be able to present it to clients in meaningful way, turn that disparate data into meaningful insight. We need AI to help us with that because there's just so much of it. I guess our learning has been. Somebody used the analogy, which I think is a great analogy, that you can't put crude oil into a car and expect it to drive. You have to have refined petroleum. And so our journey has been about refining our petroleum, meaning our data, and making sure the data we collect is refined and curated in a way that we can then pull it together and get the best out of AI.
- [13:22]
Carlotta Rebelo
But when we talk about the cities of tomorrow, it's important to think about the population as it ages too. That's where Care Hub comes in. A new concept developed by Hub Culture that wants to create quality, affordable community living for older adults by using modular construction. Stan Stallnacker is the founding director of Hub Culture and he told me how the idea was born and why this is such a personal mission for him.
- [13:48]
Stan Stallnacker
I'm really excited about Care Hub, mostly because my mom is 74, so this hit me very hard at Christmas because I went home with her and I realized that while she's independent and kind of with it, she couldn't travel as far as she would have normally done. So I had to go all the way to the west coast of the us. Things are harder for her. And one of the issues that a lot of seniors face is loneliness because many people live on their own or they're in very small groups and also like needing a little bit of care, but not a lot of care and a regular check in. Right. So you might call every day, but I live halfway around the world from my mom, so it's not easy to be there. Care Hub was announced and if you want to see more about it, you can go to Hubicon Co as an initiative to lower the cost of affordable housing for seniors. There are 1 billion people who will be entering the age category of 60 to 80 over the next 10 years. And many of them don't have really great solutions for affordable care or for affordable living. And they're past the age of working. So it's not like you can just be like, oh, go get a job. Right, because a 75 year old can. Can't do the same kinds of work. Many people still work at 75, but there are limits to what you can do. And also there are moms and dads. And how do we make our moms and dads comfortable for all the work that they've done for us? So Care Hub is an example of how Davos actually works, because the idea came up last year in a conversation with West Health, which is one of our partners at the Icon. And they're doing incredible work around healthcare access for everyone in America. And in particular they have a focus on seniors, on Alzheimer's, on these things. But they're on the really medical side of things with medication and healthcare treatment. Housing is not directly in that wheelhouse. But we had a big conversation about how amazing the ICON was and people kept saying, I would love to live in a place like this. And then we were like, well, wouldn't it be amazing if this was like an elder care facility? Like, what would it look like then? I spent all year thinking about it and noodling it. And for me, to be honest, I have my best ideas on a dance floor. So, you know, you could be dancing and I tend to meditate there. And I was meditating on a dance floor in New York and I just saw it like, ah. Because I was thinking a lot about my mom and it was like, oh my God, like, imagine if our seniors, our moms and dads could have studio apartments above and then the ground floor rotunda would have a kitchen and beautiful shared areas. So you have independence and privacy, but then you also have shared areas for community. And what would that look like if you then cluster them into nodes and just really thinking about communal harmony as.
- [16:33]
Carlotta Rebelo
A key basis, looking at the structure itself. So it's based off the icon, which is this modular construction that you've brought here to Davos. I think it really highlights the advantages of modular construction and how you can deploy it to so many different environments.
- [16:48]
Stan Stallnacker
Yeah, they can go anywhere. Number one, they're relatively inexpensive. And most of them all, they're very, very rapid. And the ICON is timber. And it's actually a very special type of timber called cross laminate timber. It's very, very strong. It's like pressed and compressed to become extremely strong. It's actually as strong as concrete. And it's also very, very good in fires. So, you know, in the rebuilding in Pacific Palisades now, a lot of the houses that are starting to come back are exploring cross laminate timber because they discover that in a fire, these types of structures are much less likely to burn. And you can build beautiful structures with them. Plus it's renewable, right? It's timber. So there are like important things to think about, sustainability when it comes to forest use, which I think is something that we really have to take into account. But the idea that the icon itself is steel with poles and various support levels and timber, you know, it's great. It's a renewable building.
- [17:42]
Carlotta Rebelo
Now WEF is all about looking ahead to the future in terms of business and politics. So it's only fitting that urban thinkers are doing the same. The Supersymmetry Institute launched here in Davos the Urban Advantage in the Next Economy report, looking at which emerging cities are going to define the next economy, with a particular focus on the Global South. I caught up with a co founder, Anastasia Calinini, to hear about their findings.
- [18:07]
Anastasia Calinini
We actually wanted for ourselves to understand what makes the city stick. What is it that makes them competitive in this day and age? Because we understand that the world is ever changing and things move in various directions. So what are the critical factors in city competitiveness? And I personally do not like the word competitiveness so much, but here we're not talking about any sort of aggressive competition. We're talking about the set of factors that make the city outstanding. And so we looked at the plethora of other research pieces to understand the competitiveness landscape and who really assesses the cities from that perspective. And we discovered that nothing substantial has been published recently around the Global South. So we took the lead and we have assessed 50 top cities in the Global south to understand what makes them competitiveness, what makes them appealing for investors, what makes them livable, desirable for people to move into those cities. And so we created this index where we assessed them against 350 criteria. So we had over 25 million data points that we took into consideration and some two and a half million social listening points. So all of that combined we got a lot of raw data. We also added to it a survey of executives in those 50 cities who helped us understand their perspectives. One thing is just getting some data, but the other Thing is to understand the human side of it. Yeah. How does it feel to live in a certain city? And so we've come up with this assessment with very rigid methodology and we released it just yesterday.
- [19:41]
Carlotta Rebelo
Is the goal here that this becomes almost like a tool for these urban leaders to then take back home and not only look at shared practices and best examples from their neighbors, but to rethink how certain decisions are made at a local level?
- [19:55]
Anastasia Calinini
Yes. And the key audiences here for the tool are actually city mayors. Right. Because it's very important to see things in like a larger perspective and for them to understand, okay, what do I need to do to make my city competitive in what we call the next economy? Now this is an understanding of the ever changing world and that's a combination of various factors that make up the new landscape for economy these days. So it's a simultaneous and integrated advance of digital and green transformations. It's shifting supply chains and increased geo economical competition. So all of these factors combined make for a new sort of economy. And not everybody is ready for it because it's already upon us. So how do cities and how do mayors and urban development professionals understand this changing world with the next economy? And where do they fit? We identified a few archetypes of the city. It's interesting because almost every city would fall into one of the several categories that we came up with. So for example, it's important for a mayor of the city to understand whether they're a global gateway like Dubai, or they could be the deep tech innovator like Bengaluru in India, or maybe they are industrial production hub. And then based on this typology on those archetypes, they could develop their strategies and their spatial territorial peculiarities to kind of fit into that structure. And then they could leapfrog in this particular category to find their place in the world. Because after all, cities are competing.
- [21:31]
Carlotta Rebelo
One thing that struck out to me as well in this report, near where those archetypes are as well, is this idea of the future proof governance for strategic readiness. And this is basically trying to get cities to do more than just manage this competitiveness and all these aspects we've been talking about, it's a long term strategy as well.
- [21:49]
Anastasia Calinini
Yes, absolutely. We are focused on the future proof governance. So it's only natural that we believe it is the root system for any other factor in city development. The root system, just like in a tree, is often invisible but absolutely crucial. So it's the city's ability to anchor itself, absorb resources strategically and adapt to those changing Conditions, that's what we mean by the governance foundation. So strong, deep, interconnected roots of the tree, clear strategy, institutional coordination, stakeholder engagement, provide stability, nourishment and resilience, enabling the entire tree to grow and thrive over the long term. And then in this tree that has this root system of the future of governance layer here we could see the fruit and the canopy, which is the creative economic output of that city. But without the foundation of good governance and good institutions regulations, hardly anything could come out of this from the economic and creative perspective. But we also should not forget that maybe the trunk of that tree is the business environment. So if governance is the root system, then trunk is the economic or business environment, and then the fruits are the creative outputs. Then this is how we actually restructured the report. And this is one of our major conclusions from it.
- [23:07]
Carlotta Rebelo
I guess it's always nice to get a few case studies or examples perhaps of cities that fit in. All these things we've been discussing that came out in the report that you could highlight for us.
- [23:17]
Anastasia Calinini
I think one of the major results from what we have seen is a near elimination of the traditional north south gap at the top tier. So we have, just for benchmarking, we've also had a look at nine cities from the global north for a comparison. So we looked at New York, we looked at London, Amsterdam, a few other cities, and there is almost no gap between them. So in our top 10 cities, we have more cities from the global south than we could possibly imagine. And so I could tell you from the global source perspective, our top ranking cities are Dubai, Beijing, Shanghai, Riyadh is quite near the top. So what unites those cities is an alignment of the factors that I've mentioned to you before. Governance, business environment and economic activity. So it's really combining and integrating a few factors that makes that city really competitive. It's not all the New Yorks and Londons of the world anymore. That really presents an interesting case. But then again, you know, we looked at cities. I already referred to Bengaluru, the deep tech hub. That's an interesting example. Or for example, Cape Town. That is an instance of very interesting new hub for creative and green innovations. So they are taking very seriously their city strategy and their very specific identity around those matters. So we were quite fascinated by finding this out.
- [24:45]
Carlotta Rebelo
For Monocle in Davos, I'm Carlotta Rebelo.
- [24:55]
Andrew Tuck
Founded by the Swiss manufacturing materials giant Holcument, Non profit Wholesome Foundation's awards for sustainable construction recently celebrated their 20th anniversary. Industry insiders gathered in Venice in November to recognise four regional winners in five regions, one of whom from each region would also win the grand prize. The accolades pick out some of the globe's most interesting new development projects that are looking to reduce their environmental impact, create meaningful communities and stand the test of time. As well as the awards show, there's also a chance to brainstorm a forum. This year's focused on the issue of flooding, bringing together change makers from diverse industries. All in all, it's a packed few days and we sent our Milan based Europe editor at large, Ed Stocker to listen in on the conversation.
- [25:52]
Ed Stocker
The rain has come in Venice, causing the canal water lapping against the island of Giudecca to rise, occasionally spilling onto the walkway. Venice, built on a lagoon, has endured the elements over the centuries and has had to be resilient, which makes it an appropriate setting for an awards ceremony looking at how to build more responsibly, taking into consideration both communities and and nature. The Holcim Foundation Awards may have launched two decades ago and recognized everyone from Chile's Alejandro Aravena to Berlin based Burkinabe architect Francis Carre early in their careers, but the format is still being perfected.
- [26:39]
Carlotta Rebelo
Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen.
- [26:42]
Ed Stocker
Tonight we're assembled in a Venice theatre to find out which of the 20 prize winners that come on stage will be picked to win a grand prize allocated to one project per region. A new concept.
- [26:55]
Carlotta Rebelo
It's my great honor to be your host for this culminating moment of the Wholesome Foundation Awards 2025.
- [27:03]
Ed Stocker
The awards are hosted by Wholesome Foundation Zurich based executive director Laura Viscovic. For her, the two decades long lifespan of the awards has been an evolving process.
- [27:17]
Carlotta Rebelo
I think 20 years ago it was really about raising awareness that there were different ways to build more holistically in a way that's good for planet, good for people and hopefully can make economic sense. Twenty years on, there are many, many examples of how to do that. So now what we're trying to do is raise awareness and actually promote the real world projects as they out of the ground and talk about them and just get more eyeballs on them to try and make sure people get inspired.
- [27:49]
Ed Stocker
Taking place every other year, the awards involve 18 months of planning. For 2025, over 5000 submissions of interest became 887 submissions, eventually whittled down to a short list that the regional juries sift through. Jurists include everyone from Peru's Sandra Barclay to Snehetta's founders Ktel Torsen and Craig Dycke Torson. A grin on his face explains the process, something he clearly relishes.
- [28:20]
Mirik Milan
We spent three days together, day and night with the jury, breakfast, lunch, looking at projects, debating, discussing what happens when you're sitting in an award jury like this is you learn more than you give away. It's really a lot of information that you have to take in. And with all the different specialists coming together around the table, some nerdy, some less nerdy, some generic, some general.
- [28:41]
Ed Stocker
The awards are packed full of intriguing global works. And some of them look to push the boundaries of what sustainability can mean. Throwing up a few surprises such as the Portland International Main Terminal expansion, which incorporates plenty of natural light that reduces energy costs alongside a mass timber roof. A clear highlight is Europe's grand prize winner Artech Tutoya in Kosovo, a former brick factory in capital city Pristina being turned into a multi use public space covering tech, art, hospitality, gastronomy and adult education.
- [29:22]
Neil Murray
The most appealing thing about the site wasn't just one thing, it just had from wherever you looked at it, it had everything you can imagine or everything I wanted to work on.
- [29:32]
Ed Stocker
That's Rafi Siegel. He's the New York based architect working on the project alongside an international team that includes artist Marisa Moran Jahn and Brussels architecture planning office Org Permanent Modernity. Siegel says that while the upcycling of bricks from part of the factory that couldn't be salvaged is important, pulverized and turned into pavers, the development is about more than that.
- [30:00]
Neil Murray
Capturing solar energy using cross laminated timber, upcycling bricks. In today's kind of architectural world, they are not the most unusual. Many projects do that. What's particular to this project is the scope and the site and the context in post conflict Kosovo. To create such a project that sends a message to the younger generation of creatives, you have a place here.
- [30:28]
Ed Stocker
Another compelling project, also a grand prize winner this time for Asia, is in Dhaka, Bangladesh. It is redeveloping what was once Dakar's central jail and a fort earlier in its history, turning a now disused area into green public space. The winning studio, Elated, brings young family members onto stage in Venice as they pick up the award.
- [30:55]
Carlotta Rebelo
It's a family affair. Fantastic.
- [30:59]
Ed Stocker
Dideroul Islam Buyan is principal architect at Form 3 Studio. For him, the focus has been on staying true to community and local context.
- [31:10]
Neil Murray
It's a public space that is unveiled after centuries for the people. For this particular project, we've done everything in our local techniques. The conservation area with the local expertise, local artisans, local craftsmanship, local metal workers.
- [31:23]
Ed Stocker
While the awards get plenty of attention. There is also serious reflection happening at the concurrent forum focusing on the issue of flooding under the title Retreat. Resist, Respond. The idea is to bring fresh thinking to the subject, as expressed by one of the session hosts, Nigerian Chola Achibade, an associate professor at Emory University in Atlanta, who gives her take on the idea of retreat.
- [31:57]
Carlotta Rebelo
So when I think about retreat, I think about it in the context of my own culture. We have this idea about a riddle, actually, or should I say a proverb in I'm a Yoruba person from Lagos, Nigeria. And so in my Yoruba proverb, there's this idea that a person that retreats is not necessarily failing, but you're going to prepare and come back stronger. And so across the world, when people hear about retreat, they do think it's something that is a failure. But culturally, for me, I've never seen it as a failure. I feel it's you gathering all the arsenals you need to be able to fight a bigger war or to be able to address a bigger storm.
- [32:33]
Ed Stocker
Ajibadeh has been what she calls delightfully surprised by the quality of people she's met, something echoed by Snehetter's Craig Duikes, who makes sure he's at forum discussions alongside his jury role.
- [32:47]
Mirik Milan
The idea of interrelational dynamics relating to other people outside your profession or your sphere of influence is extremely important and very difficult to attain if you're not in a situation like this.
- [33:00]
Carlotta Rebelo
How often will we see a range.
- [33:01]
Mirik Milan
Of at least 30 other professions in one location? Some of them have never talked to an architect before, and some of us have never talked to their kind of financial management group before.
- [33:13]
Ed Stocker
Building better for communities and nature may be a monumental task. The positive rub well, getting the right people together is half the battle. Something wholesome foundation has clearly pulled off. Roll on then, 2027 for monocle in Venice. I'm Ed Stocker.
- [33:41]
Andrew Tuck
And that's all for this week's episode of the urb. You can follow us for new editions of the show every week, and you can subscribe to Monocle magazine for reports on all things design, architecture and urbanism, too. Just visit monocle.com the Urbanist is produced by Carlotta Rebelo and by David Stevens, who also edits the show. I'm Andra Tuck. Goodbye and thank you for listening.
- [34:03]
Stan Stallnacker
City lover. Sam.