The Urbanist – "What can cities learn from nature? Discover The Bioplanning Institute and the Bundanon Art Museum"

Host: Andrew Tuck (Monocle)
Guests: Dror Benshetrit (Founder, Supernature Labs & Bioplanning Institute), Rachel Kent (CEO, Bundanon), Kirsten Thompson (Architect)
Date: October 2, 2025

Overview

This episode of The Urbanist explores how cities can draw inspiration from nature to become more resilient, connected, and adaptive. The first segment features Dror Benshetrit, a New York-based designer and founder of Supernature Labs and the Bioplanning Institute, who advocates for "bioplanning"—an urbanism approach inspired by ecological systems and natural geometry. The episode then shifts focus to the Bundanon Art Museum in Australia, which models climate-resilient architecture and land management in a bushfire- and flood-prone landscape.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Rethinking Urbanism: Dror Benshetrit and the Bioplanning Institute

[00:57–17:16]

The Shift from Design to Urbanism

• Motivation: Dror describes turning 40 as a pivotal moment that moved his focus from traditional design projects to addressing "the largest design problem of our time"—the future of cities.
  • "Cities is the largest thing humanity have built and is continuing to build and is continuing to expand. I realized that it's simply the largest design problem of our time." —Dror Benshetrit [03:23]

Bioplanning Explained

• Core Idea: Bioplanning uses "node-based logic," emulating the geometry of natural systems (cell structures, fractals, circular packing).
  • "Everything in nature is organized based on node based logic. ...What if you actually organize cities within that logic?" —Dror Benshetrit [04:54]
• Benefits: Reorganizing cities according to biological patterns can address housing typology limitations, infrastructure challenges, and the relationship between people and their environment.

Practical Outcomes of Cellular Planning

• Social Fabric: Dror prioritizes creating urban environments that foster empathy and connections, addressing urban loneliness by designing with natural nodes and communal centers.
  • "If urban planning does not prioritize those aspects of creating emotional connection and empathy between people...why do you get more of that in bioplanning is essentially because you're organizing geometries based on nodes..." —Dror Benshetrit [08:14]
• Comparison to 15-Minute City: Bioplanning complements and surpasses the "15-Minute City" by naturally scaling proximity and access via cell aggregation—enabling multiple "minute cities" of varying radii (2, 3, 5, 7, 15 minutes, etc.).
  • "Bio planning...actually respects every distance within its own logic of priorities. 2 Minute City, 3 Minute City, 5 Minute City, 7 Minute City...all based on aggregations of cellular forms." —Dror Benshetrit [09:46]

Implementing Bioplanning at Scale

• Urgency: Dror emphasizes the need for widespread, simultaneous adoption over slow prototyping in order to address imminent urban expansion globally.

  • "If we would focus just on clients that we can have within five, six, seven years, the world is going to pretty much be done with land subdivision of the majority of our urban expansion." —Dror Benshetrit [10:50]

• Four-Pronged Approach:

  1. Inspiration: Show alternatives beyond high-rise/low-rise typologies.
  2. Zoning Reform: Adapt zoning laws to support ecological patterns.
  3. Financial Standards: Create standards permitting financial products (bonds, loans) to fund ecological urban expansion.
  4. Industry Buy-In: Convince builders/developers of bioplanning’s practical and economic advantages.

• Financial Innovation: The lack of financial tools—because of a lack of standards—is a major blocker. Work with financial players (e.g., Goldman Sachs) to create bioplanning compliance standards that unlock investment in ecological development.

  • "If there's no standard, we cannot create compliances for financial products...If the Bio Planning Institute can work on a standard...we can create all kinds of products, from bonds to other financial products, which currently doesn't exist." —Dror Benshetrit [12:18]

Optimism & Adoption

• Dror acknowledges recent acceleration in interest and partnerships, notably with AECom, helping validate and scale bioplanning science and applications.
  • "The reason why I'm so optimistic right now is that I see the speed of adaptation of the various climate change companies and organization that we're talking to and their interest and their understanding." —Dror Benshetrit [15:22]
• Principle: Move beyond "human-centric design" to "life-centric design," accounting for planetary well-being.
  • "We have to prioritize life as one practical objective. We need to prioritize to design for all of life because it's interconnected with our well being and our health and so forth." —Dror Benshetrit [16:23]

2. Learning from Climate Resilience: Bundanon Art Museum

[17:16–28:03]

Site Context and Mission

• Bundanon is a major cultural and ecological site, housing Arthur Boyd’s legacy, set within a 1,000ha wildlife sanctuary on Australia’s south coast.
  • "It is truly...one of those places where you need to slow down and spend time. It is really about immersion into this extraordinary, really beautiful natural setting..." —Rachel Kent [19:56]
• Only 20% is developed, maintaining the integrity and biodiversity of the site.

Climate-Resilient Design

• Architectural Challenges: The new museum sits between a fire-prone forest and a floodplain, demanding that Kathryn Thompson Architects innovate.
  • "We were...wedged between a projected maximum flood line...to our east...and to our west we had what's called an APZ zone or an asset protection zone, which is effectively beautiful bushland, but of course highly flammable and a real fire risk. So somewhere in this little slither of space between the threat of flood and the threat of fire was where we were able to locate these new facilities..." —Kirsten Thompson [22:11]
• Solutions:
  • Art museum: Embedded in the hillside for 3-sided fire protection.
  • Accommodation ("the bridge"): Straddles a flood gully, inspired by trestle bridges, elevating housing safely above floodwaters.

Encounters with Nature

• First-Person Accounts: 2020 saw the site survive both major bushfires and a dramatic flood during construction, underlining the necessity for flexible, landscape-embracing design.
  • "I do remember being in my room looking out and just being able to enjoy watching that dramatic transformation from a big, grassy, open area...turning into a pond of sorts, almost a little lake, and watching how...all this bird life appeared..." —Kirsten Thompson [24:58]

Indigenous Land Management

• Vital Partnership: Bundanon’s team works with Indigenous experts to carry out "cool temperature cultural burns"—an ancient, low-intensity fire management practice that proved pivotal in safeguarding the property during the devastating 2019–2020 fires.
  • "Those cultural burns...were one of the key reasons...that Bundanon did not burn to the ground. So that cultural practice, that environmental and regenerative and protective practice is critical in an area like this where fire risk is extremely high." —Rachel Kent [26:32]
• Philosophy: This holistic, gentle approach is now recognized as vital and is being adopted more widely across Australia.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Everything in nature is organized based on node based logic...So we basically naively said, well, what if you actually organize cities within that logic?"
  —Dror Benshetrit [04:54]

• "If urban planning does not prioritize those aspects of creating emotional connection and empathy between people...why do you get more of that in bioplanning is essentially because you're organizing geometries based on nodes..."
  —Dror Benshetrit [08:14]

• "We need to prioritize to design for all of life because it's interconnected with our well being and our health and so forth."
  —Dror Benshetrit [16:23]

• "Bundanon is in a really unique position...Geographically. It is in the middle of a high risk fire and flood zone. And I'll often say this is the bellwether. A climate change, you know, can be very biblical. At Bundanon, it's either burning or it's flooding."
  —Rachel Kent [24:09]

• "Those cultural burns...were one of the key reasons...that Bundanon did not burn to the ground...It's a really clever land management process and it has been practiced successfully for millennia."
  —Rachel Kent [26:32]

Key Timestamps

• 00:57: Introduction to ecological geometry in city planning (Dror Benshetrit).
• 02:37: Dror describes the shift from product design to urbanism as humanity’s primary design challenge.
• 04:54: Explanation of node-based natural logic and its benefits for urban geometry.
• 08:00: How bioplanning fosters empathy and communal connection.
• 09:26: Bioplanning versus the 15-Minute City concept.
• 10:38: Scaling bioplanning—why urgency trumps prototyping.
• 12:18: Why financial products for ecological urbanism require standards.
• 15:11: Dror’s renewed optimism and new partnerships for scaling bioplanning.
• 17:16: Introduction to Bundanon Art Museum’s environment and mission.
• 21:04: Architectural design challenges in a flood and fire zone.
• 24:09: Surviving the 2020 bushfires—artwork saved, property nearly burned.
• 24:58: Experiencing a flash flood from the safety of "the bridge."
• 26:22: Embracing Indigenous fire management for true climate resilience.

Final Takeaways

• Urbanism must learn from ecological systems—adopting geometry, diversity, and resilience found in nature.
• Holistic, life-centric planning offers solutions to social problems (like loneliness) and existential threats (climate disasters).
• Both theoretical (bioplanning) and practical (Bundanon) examples show that meaningful transformation requires urgency, financial creativity, and respect for indigenous wisdom.

For urban planners, architects, civic leaders, or anyone passionate about the future of cities, this episode provides a roadmap for integrating the logic and wisdom of nature into the built environment, making urban spaces more resilient, empathetic, and sustainable.