Brain Ballooning in Dogs: Recognizing and Managing Increased Intracranial Pressure

Summary

---

The Veterinary Roundtable

Episode: Brain Ballooning in Dogs: Recognizing and Managing Increased Intracranial Pressure

Release Date: July 14, 2026
Hosts: Dr. Ashlyn Duckwall, Dr. Emily King, Courtney Allan, Ally McQuarry

---

Episode Overview

This episode of The Veterinary Roundtable covers a range of clinical and professional topics in veterinary medicine, centered around a listener's moving story of personal loss involving chylothorax in a Shetland Sheepdog. The hosts share emotional and practical perspectives on treating their own pets, discuss compassion fatigue, and examine the latest news and case studies in vet med, including AI in diagnostics, dog food recalls, and a study on cranial shapes in small dog breeds. The show keeps a warm, candid, and collaborative tone with characteristic humor and moments of heartfelt empathy.

---

Key Segments & Timestamps

• Personal Catch-up & News (00:04–14:10)
• Tales from the Trenches: Emotional Injury & Vet Med Empathy (14:44–41:44)
• Veterinary News (41:52–53:30)
• Case Collections (53:36–59:48)
• Listener Inquiries (59:53–65:16)

---

Detailed Breakdown

Personal Catch-up & Announcements (00:04–14:10)

• Hosts converse about podcast location, live show announcements (WVC Nashville), and social media.
• "Pits & Peaks": Each host shares recent highs and lows, focusing on Fourth of July fun, moving, family milestones, and much-needed personal time.
  • [07:03] Dr. King: “We decided to light fireworks off at the dock, which we had never done before…It turned out being really awesome.”
  • [09:49] Ally McQuarry on moving: “The pit is unpacking everything…But we are in our house.”
  • [11:14] Dr. Duckwall: "This Saturday is my husband and I's 11-year wedding anniversary...we're gonna have a little staycation."

Tone: Casual, witty, supportive, and humorous.

---

Tales from the Trenches: Listener Story on Chylothorax & Burnout (14:44–41:44)

Listener Voicemail: "Lassie", Veterinary Assistant (14:44–26:42)

• Lassie shares the tragic experience of losing her Shetland Sheepdog, Tilly, to chylothorax (a condition where lymphatic fluid accumulates in the chest).
• Despite extensive efforts—including contacting hospitals in different states and considering a risky surgery—Tilly’s rapidly declining condition led to humane euthanasia.
• Lassie’s emotional impact: “This case actually made me take a year and a half compassion burnout break. Because I felt like I had lost my empathy when I lost that dog.” [26:30]

Responses & Insights

Clinical Discussion:

• [27:03] Dr. King: "It's a Sheltie syndrome that happens...It's idiopathic, it just happens. Some shelties just develop it out of nowhere."
• [27:57] Dr. King shares a near-identical case with a Sheltie: “So she actually had…a pericardectomy. Partial pericardectomy. Cured the dog.”
• [28:57] On surgical success: “Success rates on the pericardectomy with Sheltie syndrome [are] like 70-90%.”

Ethical and Emotional Insights:

• Discussing the difficulty and boundaries when treating their own pets:
  • [31:54] Dr. Duckwall: “I truly don't think I would have been able to make any decisions emotional[ly]...I have my colleagues look at it.”
  • [33:03] Dr. King: “You're acting as an owner at the same time [as] the clinician…some situations you feel like...internal medicine stuff doesn't bother me, but emergent things...it's so fascinating.”
• Compassion fatigue following traumatic pet loss:
  • [38:33] Dr. King: “Isn't that part of a response...to that type of trauma? Like a trauma response, probably…you’re numb after a little bit.”
• [40:29-41:23] The hosts reflect candidly on the struggle with empathy when clients can't or won't do what's needed for their pets, especially regarding finances and quality of life.

Notable Quote:

• [39:01] Dr. Duckwall: “I feel like I get the feeling of burnout or empathy when...you watch people have a mentality about animals that you don't necessarily agree with...Over time...if you don't care, then why am I gonna care?”

---

Veterinary News (41:52–53:30)

1. AI in Veterinary Medicine (42:08–44:54)

• Discussion of an article on “A.I. guard rails emerge as veterinarians mull ethics, safety risk” (from VIN).
• [43:00] Dr. Duckwall: “Title is the meat of it…basically says more AI services [are] coming out in the veterinary field, and they're telling these companies...to expose whether or not veterinarians are a part of the process.”
• Concerns over AI in diagnostics, especially for radiology—hosts agree AI can supplement but shouldn’t replace clinical judgment.

2. Dog Food Recall (44:55–46:48)

• Mars recalls Pedigree high-protein canned food due to risk of sharp metal/plastic contamination.
• [45:24] Dr. King: “So these too many dog food got diverted…Literally smuggled back into the U.S.…That’s so crazy.”
• Lot numbers read and hosts warn listeners to check their cans.

3. Cranial Shape & Syringomyelia Risk Study (47:03–51:31)

• Retrospective Cornell study links body weight and cranial shape changes due to miniaturization with increased risk of painful syringomyelia.
• [48:59] Dr. King: “For every 2.2 pounds of body weight that you reduce, there's a 25% increase in the risk…”
• Hosts lament the trend of miniaturized breeds and the ethics of selectively breeding “designer dogs.”

4. Screw-worm Update, Preventive Tips (51:33–53:30)

• On recent screw-worm risk in Texas; hosts advise on preventative measures for pet owners traveling with pets.

---

Case Collections (53:36–59:48)

• Update on Janet, the German Shepherd with chronic maggots due to incontinence
  • [54:59] Courtney: “Janet…had maggots in her vulva multiple times. Sweet girl…was finally euthanized this week.”
• Bunny with bots (cuterebra) in the eye: Satisfying extraction video discussed.
  • [57:31] Dr. King: “That rabbit’s gonna feel so much better.”
• Dumpster bird rescue and fractured kitten update.

---

Listener Inquiries (59:53–65:16)

1. College Student Seeking Pre-Vet Resume Building Advice
[60:16–62:58]

• Emily, about to start animal science/pre-vet degree at UTK, asks how to stand out with her 345+ animal hours and extracurriculars.
• [61:29] Dr. King: “That’s way more hours than I had…You’re doing great.”
• Key advice: Demonstrate you can “start and finish something hard.” Complete meaningful activities, not just collect hours.

2. RVT Career Growth vs. Risk in New Clinic Venture
[63:20–64:42]

• Anonymous RVT debating career leap with a friend starting a clinic.
• [63:42] Courtney: “Risk equals reward…If you feel like it could turn into something great, you can pave your own way there.”
• All support taking the opportunity for professional and financial growth.

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

• [26:50] Dr. King, reacting to Lassie’s story: “Wow, that's doozy. Yeah, that's intense…”
• [35:41] Dr. Duckwall, on treating her own pets: “It’s funny…I just go stupid because I can’t think straight.”
• [48:26] Dr. King, on miniaturizing dogs: “We're not just looking at a miniature wolf-like skull…as the dog shrinks…the cranium undergoes ballooning…creating a rounder shape.”
• [64:59] Courtney: “We’re not those risk-averse people…Do it.”

---

Takeaways

• Chylothorax in Shelties is a heartbreaking, idiopathic syndrome with treatment options limited by cost and surgical risk; sharing experiences helps the profession process collective trauma.
• Working on your own pets in emergencies can blur lines between clinician and owner; emotional boundaries vary per individual and situation.
• Compassion fatigue is common, with the right to step back and heal acknowledged and respected among colleagues.
• Ethics in AI & veterinary diagnostics: Embrace technological aids, but retain the clinician’s role in meaningful decision-making.
• Designer breeds, dog food recalls, and zoonotic risks (like screw-worms) remain topical concerns for vets and pet owners in 2026.

---

Final Thoughts

The Veterinary Roundtable continues to blend practical veterinary wisdom, supportive camaraderie, and open-hearted discussion about the real challenges facing animal care professionals—reminding listeners they’re not alone, whether they’re managing difficult cases, considering a career leap, or simply needing a laugh and some company on a tough day.

---

Transcript

[A]

Foreign.

[B]

And welcome to another episode of the Veterinary Roundtable, the podcast where we answer your veterinary related questions while having some fun along the way. If you enjoyed today's episode or a previous episode, be sure to leave us a review on your podcast provider of choice. And if you have any feedback to offer to improve the Veterinary Roundtable, let us know. We're back in person. We're back and it feels kind of weird.

[C]

It does kind of feel.

[B]

It was exciting. I was so excited to be here with you guys today. You guys are probably like, I just

[D]

realized our lights aren't here.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

I was like, why are the windows open?

[B]

So we may look a little different because the lights are being moved to Harrison's basement.

[D]

We're moving locations?

[C]

Yep.

[D]

Surprise.

[B]

Yeah. Which Courtney and I were talking about before. The podcast we're slightly excited about because there is a full kitchen and fridge.

[A]

We can get snacks. Fridge.

[D]

The AC is probably better because it's hot as hell.

[C]

Freezing in his basement.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Yeah. So. So it's gonna be so much better.

[B]

Yeah. Because we can just run upstairs. He better have some snacks.

[D]

Every time I'm there, they have snacks. So I don't think it'll be a problem.

[C]

I'll be honest. I did the drive over and we had to do the recording. And his house is far.

[E]

I want to say that, too.

[B]

Is it far from your house, too?

[E]

I hope I'm not late.

[B]

Probably not. From Courtney.

[E]

This is only like seven minutes.

[C]

That's true.

[E]

From work because sometimes I can't get. Always get out right on time. I told you it was far.

[C]

No, it was well on maps. It was like, oh, it's about the same distance. But no, I told you it's like,

[B]

if you're coming from your house, it's going to be much further.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

I would think if you're going from work, it's not horrible. It's another seven minutes. Probably on top of, like, coming here. And another.

[E]

Yeah, it's like 20 something minutes from here. When I went over there to record from the clinic. Yeah.

[D]

Really?

[B]

Which way? We got to show her.

[D]

Did you go through downtown Noblesville or did you go.

[E]

I honestly don't remember.

[B]

I was just like, we'll show you the fast way.

[E]

Yeah. I was like, oh, this might be a problem.

[D]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

So we'll have to make up with it. We'll have Chick Fil A there for you.

[E]

Okay.

[D]

There's a Chick Fil A right on the street.

[B]

Yes. And so we'll make sure you have your Thursday Chick Fil A. You won't miss out because if you think about it, you were going to drive anyway to Chick Fil A. You're going to waste that time driving to Chick Fil A. We will just provide the Chick Fil A. Therefore, you won't have to drive. It's like a trade a minute.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

And duckwall. I'll think of something to make it better for you.

[C]

Yeah, it's. It's. It's doozy.

[B]

It's a doozy.

[C]

And then if I. The days I've done, you could not

[B]

go straight across, like, 200 and whatever. Can you go up 37 and then just go straight across?

[C]

I went 30. What did it tell me? Yeah, it said 37. Or you can do 19 to 30.

[B]

Yeah. Okay.

[C]

So I don't know. I went one of the ways, but

[B]

it still felt long.

[A]

Long.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Yep. Okay.

[D]

Sure.

[A]

All right.

[B]

Well, that might end up being our pit.

[D]

We'll see. Yeah, we'll let you know how it goes once we.

[C]

The days have to pick up the kids. I'm gonna have to stay, like, 30 minutes on our podcast and then leave because again, I have to come up

[B]

with back that direction.

[D]

Okay. So stay tuned. Our upload day may be different.

[B]

That's right.

[C]

Exactly. Can we just go back to the clinic?

[D]

No, to record. Where do you want to go in the clinic? I have no room.

[C]

Ultrasound.

[B]

Ultrasound by now.

[C]

Go back to the og.

[B]

The OG space.

[C]

That's right.

[B]

That's right.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Okay. Sorry. Tangent there.

[D]

Anyway, more exciting news, kind of. Well, I don't know if that was exciting, but if you haven't heard, we're doing another live show at WVC in Nashville on August 16, and tickets are going fast.

[C]

They are going.

[D]

So you better get your tickets.

[B]

We're over two thirds of the way there.

[D]

Yeah. That's crazy.

[B]

Which is going to be. Be so much fun.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

I am so excited.

[E]

Food, drinks.

[C]

It's getting.

[A]

It's like, close, you guys, and I

[C]

know, like four weeks away.

[B]

I know, I know. Don't stress me out.

[E]

Is it really four weeks away?

[B]

There's gonna be. Yeah, I know.

[C]

I was thinking about this the other day, and I was like, that means

[D]

your baby's gonna be here.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's what made me then think of you guys going, oh, my God, they're gonna have children.

[D]

Yeah. My OB today told me to pack my bag. Pack my hospital bag.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

That's amazing. So excited. Okay, so, yes, it's four weeks away and we've gotten some fe back from some special people from, like, companies that we're gonna have.

[C]

Oh, yep.

[D]

Oh, yeah. Giveaways.

[B]

Giveaways. Some cool giveaways that, yeah, I think will be kind of surprises.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Oh, yeah, we. Yeah, we can't give out all the information.

[B]

Yeah, we have a lot. I don't want to.

[E]

You gotta buy the ticket.

[C]

Yeah, you gotta buy that ticket. And we have special drinks, which we haven't announced yet. So you gotta buy a ticket to see that. And it's only 5$.

[B]

That's right.

[E]

So much. It's a bargain, really. It's a steal.

[B]

You get food, drinks and entertainment.

[C]

Yep.

[B]

And then you could go right down and continue down on the bar scene.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

That night.

[C]

So in Nashville, I mean, have a good time.

[E]

Start your night off with the round table.

[B]

There you go.

[D]

There you go.

[C]

If I wasn't doing it, I would go.

[D]

That's all I'm saying.

[E]

Me too. I mean, if I can make it.

[D]

Okay. We also have social channels. We have Instagram and Tick Tock. They're both at the Veterinary Roundtable. And we also have a YouTube channel, the Veterinary Roundtable. If you'd like to watch us rather than just listen. I also forgot that video we recorded that. Harrison just recently posted. I completely forgot about that one with Sarah in the clinic where we. All the chaos.

[B]

Oh, the CPR one.

[A]

That was.

[D]

It was a really good video, but it was so much funnier, like, actually recording it, but it was still funny.

[B]

It was so cute.

[C]

The one where he zoomed in on her face.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

If you're. If you watch that video, you have to watch Sarah during one of the times you watch it because her facial expression is perfect.

[B]

Yeah, just like, what in the happening.

[D]

I totally forgot.

[B]

Flips the dog over. I don't know which one of you guys, like, get when they grab the dog and then they flip it over? I was like, it's so dramatic.

[C]

It was really funny. I forgot about that one.

[E]

Yeah, good one.

[D]

So, yeah, if you don't follow our Instagram, go look at it, because it's really funny.

[C]

All right.

[B]

I'm Dr. Emily King.

[D]

I'm Courtney Allen.

[E]

I'm Ally McQuarry.

[C]

I'm Dr. Ashlyn Duckwell.

[D]

And you're listening to the Veterinary Roundtable.

[B]

Okay. So Pits and Peaks.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

That sounded heavy.

[D]

Yeah. You have a bad. Yes.

[B]

I'm about to say no, actually. You know, because I was thinking of the pits. Like, what pits there are out there for me. And I don't know, other than just the weather, which we use Every.

[E]

I thought you're about to come up with a big old list. I was like, usually you're not like this.

[B]

I just don't have very many pits.

[D]

That's good.

[E]

That's good.

[C]

That is good.

[B]

I guess it could be considered good.

[C]

Okay.

[D]

But the weather. Are you over the heat?

[B]

Yeah. I mean, it's hot. It's the only place to be. And I love to be outside, though. Like, I don't like to be cold inside. So, like, even today, like, I was working outside on my patio or whatever with the umbrella, but it's hot.

[D]

Yeah. Right now it doesn't even matter if you're in the sun or not in the sun. It's like the humidity. It just makes it miserable.

[C]

Yeah.

[E]

Upper lip, sweat.

[C]

Sweat.

[B]

And so my peak prob is July 4th was a fun. Was fun. Yeah, it was. We decided to light fireworks off at the dock, which we had never done before on the upper dock down there.

[E]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

And so. Which was really cool. It turned out being really awesome. And I'm like, you know what if we do it there next year? I'm going to take the pontoon and just float down just a little bit.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And let somebody just sit up there and let them off all night.

[E]

That's.

[B]

And it was like all stars night. Like, you know, like there are no clouds. It was perfect.

[C]

That's good.

[B]

Yeah. So it was a great.

[D]

I'll take an invite next year.

[B]

Okay. You can bring the baby.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

So, yeah. That's all I got.

[D]

That's fun.

[E]

No, that's fun.

[D]

Okay. My peak was also the 4th of July. We had a really good time. We were with our friends all day, and we played beer Olympics. And I was one of the captains of the team.

[C]

Nice.

[D]

So me and the other sober person there were cap. Were team captains, and so we made the teams and it was just fun watching everybody.

[B]

What was the events in your beer Olympics?

[D]

So we did beer pong, and then we did flip cup, and then we did beer ball or something. I don't even. I can't remember that one. And then there was another one. I can't remember the name of it, but you had to, like, make an obstacle course. And then you had to carry a tray of red solo cups with water.

[C]

Oh, nice.

[D]

And you had to, like, if you spilled one, you had to go back get a new cup. So it was really fun watching everybody. Yeah. And then my friend brought a little kiddie pool, so we all would, like, step in there with our feet and cool ourselves off. And then so it was really fun.

[C]

Good.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You weren't too tired?

[D]

No, actually, I was. I rallied better than, like, anybody there. But everybody drank a lot, like, early. And then we ate, and then everybody crashed.

[B]

Everybody wanted to take.

[D]

And I was like, what are we doing? Like, we need to. I'm ready.

[E]

So.

[D]

No, I think I had the most energy. Yeah. But then my pit was that night, my feet were so swollen, I could barely wear my Crocs. So my feet started to swell for the first time.

[B]

So much.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

Not the Crocs. That's probably one of the better shoes to wear.

[D]

I know. I put them on, and I was like, these felt awfully uncomfortable. And I looked down. I was like, jacob, look at my feet.

[B]

There's a reason your abdomen gets big enough. You can't see your feet.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Depressed about that.

[D]

Yeah. So they hadn't swelled yet, so that was really uncomfortable. And it took them a few days to go down, so that was not comfortable at all. And then I was like, okay, time to go home. Yeah. And then Monday, they were still swollen, so she made me take my blood pressure, make sure. Just to make sure it was normal. But, yeah, it was good times, though. Other than that.

[C]

Good.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Sounds like fun.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

All right. Me, I would say this is a pit and a peak. So we just moved into our house. We've only been there, like, four days, which is a peak because we have our own space. The pit is unpacking everything.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

Finding a space for everything.

[D]

It's like you don't even know where to start. Yeah. And then you just get overwhelmed, and then you just stare at it, and then you're like, I'm not doing it.

[E]

And then you start, and then you don't like it, and you're like, I have to go back through it and figure it out. So it is what it is. But we are in our house.

[B]

That's so funny.

[C]

It'll get put away at some point.

[E]

Yeah. No one warns you about moving with a toddler. Like, an older toddler.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

Like he understands what he doesn't understand. Yeah.

[C]

Does he miss the grandparents through it?

[E]

Like, he's confused or he's doing better. But the first night, I feel like he was scared. Big boy bed, new room. And even still, like, this week, bedtime has been late.

[C]

Yeah.

[E]

And so. And Meemaw. He misses Meemaw. I'm like, oh, no. She came over yesterday. She picked him up for me because I was at work late, and she. He didn't want her to leave. Of course she Picked him up today, so we'll see how it goes. I'm scared he's gonna be like, no mommy, no. So we'll see how that goes. But we're getting there. He likes the house. He runs rampant.

[C]

Oh, well that's good.

[B]

Yeah, that's awesome.

[C]

Yeah, a lot of change. Their little brains don't know how to adjust quite easily. So. Okay, two peaks. I'll just say this Saturday is my husband and I's 11 year wedding anniversary. So we're gonna do a little staycation. We already have the kids babysitters lined up. They're going to grandma grandpa's.

[B]

So nice.

[C]

We originally had plans that fell through so we were like, do we go somewhere? Do we not? And then we're like, you know what, be home. Let's just be us before kids. And we're gonna have local cuisine.

[B]

Local cuisine.

[C]

I was like, we could do whatever we want.

[D]

We could day drink if we want.

[C]

We could sleep in. I'm like, okay, just not be parents for a little bit. Exactly.

[B]

I mean that sounds lovely.

[E]

Yeah, it does. I know.

[C]

I'm kind of actually really excited now.

[E]

Yes.

[B]

Well, you take out all of the other like energy sucks. Like you know, like plant like driving, planning, you know, like taking stuff with you, packing the money, you know. Yes. All of it. Like now you just get a wake

[D]

up and have your vacation. Yeah.

[B]

It's so amazing.

[C]

I said we're not doing any house chores or whatever. It is what it is.

[D]

So you're gonna get to hang out with your husband.

[C]

I know.

[D]

And not be mom and dad.

[C]

He reminds me like you get to

[D]

be husband and wife.

[C]

A unit. We are a couple. Before we had these little things.

[D]

So.

[B]

So now how's that going to go when they both go away? Is it like will they do okay together?

[C]

Well, I think so. Helen's done it before but Hewitt's been with my, my parents and this is going to be his parents. So I mean they're close that if anything word about a ride, it's gonna. Well, we're there.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

But I don't know.

[B]

So they're going to Charles's parents house. Okay.

[C]

Grandpa's and spending the night. That's right. Oh, that's awesome. It's supposed to be tomorrow through Sunday and I thought maybe we'll just keep him Friday and then go Saturday. And he's like, no, we're taking the kids and we're gonna have a weekend.

[B]

They're saying yes, we're taking them up on it.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh no, it's good for the kids too. I mean, you know, and it's great for the grandparents, you know, so everybody wins then it's good for you in the end. Just drink enough that you won't care.

[C]

Just get so attached to those little bugs.

[A]

I know.

[C]

Now you can hang out with Phyllis

[D]

and get Phyllis attended.

[E]

She's going away somewhere too.

[C]

Yeah. I actually asked if I could ride my hors.

[E]

Watch me.

[C]

And then my other peak is that my brother and sister in law had their first baby and it was a long road for them and this little boy and. Yeah, he's here.

[E]

That's so exciting.

[C]

So it was a surprise. FaceTime, they're very secretive and she had a secret induction we didn't know about it.

[B]

Secret induction? Yes.

[C]

They call FaceTime and showed us the baby.

[B]

Oh, that's awesome. That's great. Now every. How many cousins, like how many grandchildren do your parents have?

[C]

Six.

[B]

Six.

[C]

Six.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah, that's. Charles has like a bazillion. Yeah.

[B]

That's fun for cousins, though. That's so fun.

[C]

Yeah, they're all like kind of close in age, so it'll be brands. Yeah. That's all I get. Okay, well, that's fun.

[E]

That is fun.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

Oh, geez.

[E]

Moving on to details from the trenches.

[B]

Okay, this is a link.

[D]

It says 12. It's 12 minutes long.

[B]

Okay, well, let's listen.

[D]

Okay, let's do it.

[B]

Do we just pull it up and p. Hey.

[D]

I guess, right? Oh, geez. Okay, do we have popcorn? Everybody grab refreshments.

[E]

This is a trailer.

[B]

Is it just voice? Right? There's no video. Okay.

[D]

Okay.

[E]

She's like, is there something to watch?

[C]

I know.

[B]

I'm like, okay, we can watch it.

[A]

Hi, Veterinary roundtable. The name that I'll go by is Lassie. And I am a Veterinary assistant of 5 years working towards my RVT license, based out of Oklahoma. And I have been listening to your podcast, more like binging it now, for about two months. And I really, really enjoy your tales from the trenches portion of the podcast. It makes me feel less alone in sort of oopsies and ohs and injuries and things like that. You guys have been talking about physical injuries a lot or a lot of people have been writing in about physical injuries a lot. And I wanted to talk about a sort of emotional injury that happens a lot. So it doubles as a tale from the trench and then also an inquiry because I'm just curious to hear your opinion as well. So this would be probably at the beginning of my career. I would have been A VA for about a year and a half and had just recently switched to a privately owned hospital because I decided that I didn't like corporate and the place I was working for was corporate. I had. It was actually my own dog. Her name was Tilly, Tilly Bo Peep and she was a Shetland sheepdog, spayed female, a year and a half old at the time. I got her from a breeder who did beautiful ofa testing on both her parents and the puppies themselves to make sure all of that was good. And then they also had congenital testing done as well. So we were all good and healthy there. And I noticed that one day after a routine bath that I had given her at home that she was really having trouble breathing and it was very strange. So I texted one of the doctors because this is a multi doctor practice. I texted one of the doctors that I trusted and said, hey, do you mind? Because this was actually on my day off, they were actually at the clinic I miss. I said, hey, do you mind if I run her up to the clinic really quick? She's still wet from her bath. But this was my sole dog and I hate saying that because it makes me sound like I don't love my current dogs as much, but this dog was everything to me and she was sort of like my actual human child. So I texted him and I said, hey, do you mind if I run her up really quick? And I was also really wary because her entire life she had been extremely small, I'm talking probably a maximum of 15 pounds at a year and a half old as a sheltie. So he agreed it was towards the end of the day and he was fixing to leave anyway, but he stayed just because it wasn't too far of a drive home for him. So I ran her over and because of the type of breathing difficulty that she was having, extremely labored, kind of pale gums, he ordered rats immediately. And so I restrained for her so my co workers could complete their closing duties. And I wasn't in anybody's way. And then I left him in the rad suite by himself to kind of review the images that we had taken. And he came out to me and immediately asked me, did you kick her? And I was flabbergasted. I said, did I kick her? And he said yes. And I said no. Oh my gosh, no, this dog is my child. And then so he immediately asked me if there was any way that she had been hit by a car. And I said no, absolutely not. At the time we lived in an Apartment complex. She was at my hip at all times. She was an extremely trainable dog and hardly actually went anywhere with a leash because she was trained to heal. And I said, absolutely not. There is no way. So he said, I'm going to call our senior doctor in. Our practice owner was actually the doctor that founded the clinic, but he kind of retired and took in overflow as needed. And he was like, I'm going to call our senior doctor in tomorrow. I want you to bring her with you to your shift, and me and him are going to take a look at her. And I said, great, no problem. Not an issue whatsoever. I will have her here in the morning. So he sent us home with some medications to keep her comfortable overnight. And this is going to sound terrible, but I don't remember exactly what it was. It was a couple years ago now, and it was an incredibly stressful situation for me to be in. This was my first dog. So I was definitely a hypochondriac parent. And with her struggling to breathe, I was definitely more of a hypochondriac than usual about her. And the next morning, the senior doctor, who is the nicest man I have ever met in my entire life. He was in his mid-80s at the time, and the original doctor that I contacted took over her case together in tandem. And they decided that the best next move was to aspirate her thorax, because we knew that there was fluid around her lungs, but we didn't know why, how, or what was going on in there. They proceeded to pull about 260mils of fluid off of her thorax around in the space around her lungs. And when I went back to check on her, I overheard them kind of muttering to each other, this looks like Kyle. This looks like Kyle. And I have no idea what that means at the time because I'm a year and a half into my veterinary assistant life. And so when they finish the procedure, they come in and they ask me if I know what Kyle thorax is, and I say no. And so they explain it to me, and they let me know that really the only way to confirm, other than just their experience, experience of seeing it in the past, is to actually send it off to the laboratory. And if it is Kyle thorax, this is an extremely emergent case. So they let me know after I agree to have the samples sent off to the laboratory that if this is Calathorax, that this is an extremely emergent situation, and that the only way to correct it is besides draining her when she is having Symptoms is an extremely complicated surgery with a very low success rate in canines. So I immediately began calling literally every vet in the state of Oklahoma and no one would agree to the surgery. I called Stillwater, which has the OSU vet teaching hospital, and let them know that we had all of the testing. And at that point it had been about three to five days. And so we had gotten results back that confirmed it and they wanted me to rerun testing. Even though I could submit what I had in my hands, I couldn't afford the retesting to confirm the chylethorax in a different hospital. And so I was desperate and hopeful that I could find a hospital that would agree to take the test results that I had in my hands and just be willing to do the surgery for my dog. I was so desperate, in fact, that I started calling outside of Oklahoma. I was calling Kansas, Arkansas, Missouri, and everywhere that I was calling was denying me just based on the success rate of the surgery and it being so low, which is totally understandable. And they didn't want to put her through that if she couldn't come out on the other side. I finally found another hospital in Illinois that was willing to do the procedure for me with the results that I had in my hands. The morning I was going to leave to take her to Illinois, I woke up at about 3 o' clock in the morning to start packing to head on this drive that was, I believe, about 18 hours. I woke up and she had just completely bombed. I mean she was completely lateral, actually struggling to breathe and not just in a like heavy breath way, like she was straight, just declining. And I decided in that moment that I wasn't going to put her through something like that, especially if she had to wait 18 more hours to get onto the table. So that right there and that second, I did what any 21 year old kid would do. And I called my mom at 3:30 in the morning and she answered on the first ring and I let her know that I needed a ride to the nearest emergency vet in the area. And I let her know what was going on and she came and picked us up and I made the decision that absolutely broke my heart and soul to humanely euthanize her that night. And I guess the question slash Tales from the Trench is how do you feel about working on your own dog in an emergent situation like that? And the reason why I'm asking is because this case actually, of course it was my own dog as well, but this case actually made me take a year and a Half compassion burnout break. Because I felt like I had lost my empathy when I lost that dog because I had done every step, every thing that was asked of me, I had done. And I actually took a year and a half off from veterinary medicine. And I wonder if other people feel the same way because I even ask, you know, my coworkers, just out of curiosity, if your pet was in an emergency situation, would you be able to detach? Because I know about myself that if my pet is ever in an emergency situation ever again, I would definitely do a case handoff. And then just to tie up a loose end that I left kind of open, I couldn't bring myself to have an autopsy slash necropsy done on her. So we kind of just decided on birth defect, hereditary congenital abnormality. Because her breeder did do all of the right testing and everything. The only odd thing about her was that she was just incredibly small, maximum of 15 pounds, even at her adult life. I just wanted to thank you guys for doing this podcast and all of the awesome work that you guys do. I was really, really shocked to stumble onto this podcast and discover such a great way to kind of decompress after work and not feel so alone. And I apologize for any weirdness in my story because I am just off of work. Thank you guys.

[B]

Wow, that's doozy. Yeah, that's intense. I mean, you know, I have so many thoughts.

[C]

I have so many thoughts. I.

[D]

My first thought is they, why didn't they drink? Why didn't they try to drain the fluid the night of? That's I think selling it. Like sending the dog home with that

[C]

much fluid in her chest.

[B]

I don't know. But I had a case. It's idiopathic.

[E]

It's.

[B]

It's a, it's a shelty syndrome that happens.

[E]

I was like, I've never heard of it before.

[B]

So shelter and I had. There was a client, I probably shouldn't use the name on the thing anyway, long term client. When she first came to the hospital, it was a second opinion and it was a Sheltie that had Kylo thorax. And so that's how I learned about it was that this dog had. It was a Sheltie, Young Sheltie. I think she was three, he was three and ended up with Kyla Thorax. And same scenario. This dog was her soulmate. She was going to do whatever she needed to do to save this dog. And so she actually had. Because the treatment, one of the treatment recommendations is pericardectomy, like partial pericardomyx surgeries

[C]

do you think she's talking about?

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Okay.

[B]

I mean, well, they can also do a duck ligation. Sometimes they'll do it at the same time.

[C]

I was picturing.

[B]

Yeah, but. So she went to Purdue and had a pericardectomy. Partial pericardectomy. Cured the dog.

[C]

Shut up.

[D]

What in the world? So they're supposed to.

[B]

That's what I was looking up. Like, what's the success rate on the pericardectomy with, you know, Sheltie syndrome? And it's like 70, 90%. So, like.

[C]

Okay, so what's the actual disease process like? Do you know what's happening?

[B]

I don't think that they know whether it's like, it's just idiopathic. I think that some shelties just happens, like, out of nowhere, developing it. Yeah.

[D]

That's crazy.

[B]

Like, wow. And so I think there's probably some other breeds that are predisposed to it as well, but shelties are one of them. And the fact that it was small, it probably had other breed abnormalities. But I bet you anything that's crazy, that scenario.

[D]

I bet she'll be happy to hear that. It's like a.

[C]

Nothing. She. Nothing. Yeah.

[B]

Nothing she did wrong.

[D]

Yeah. You know, she couldn't have prevented it.

[B]

She could. She couldn't have prevented it. And even if she did do the surgery, there's a chance that it may not have taken. They also. The problem is they're also predisposed to. When it happens to fibrosis or, like, the lungs. Fibrosing.

[E]

Oh.

[B]

And so then they don't. So even if you fix the kylo thorax from happening, they don't expand. So, like, if you don't fix it fast enough, then they can have this fibrosing, just.

[C]

Fibrosis.

[B]

Yeah. Pleuritis or. Yeah. Involving the lungs as well.

[C]

Wow.

[E]

So.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Interesting. Yeah.

[C]

I mean, I never come across that or heard that. Now I will at some point.

[B]

Yeah. And her dog, my client's dog, did fantastic after we. We had to do multiple chest taps while we were waiting.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

To get him into surgery. But once he had surgery.

[C]

That's life.

[D]

That's crazy.

[B]

Yep.

[C]

The more you know. So I wonder what the hold up she had of.

[B]

I wonder if it was because she had mentioned that she could not do any further testing. So maybe there was no facility willing to just take what she had.

[C]

I see.

[B]

And they wanted to work it up a little further just to confirm again, you know? I understand. But, you know, it's like the Dogs

[C]

would have died anyway.

[B]

Have them sign something. You just need that one person to be like, you know what? It's a Shelty.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

It's got kylo thorax.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm gonna just go do it and I'm gonna have the person sign that they may be wrong. It may not work. It may die. You know, the dog may die.

[D]

But at least the dog was gonna die regardless.

[B]

At least you give the. The patient an opportunity.

[C]

Right.

[B]

You know, to potentially survive.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Man. £15 is tiny.

[B]

Tiny for Sheltie.

[C]

That's like.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Instantly when she started going, I was like, oh, it's got a shunt or something.

[E]

But.

[D]

Oh, sure.

[B]

I'm sure it probably had. I mean, you know, it could have potentially had other. The. My client's dog was like 30 pounds. 30, 35 pounds. Like, he was. That's crazy.

[C]

Well, that's a very interesting fact to know about the Shelties.

[B]

Yes, it is. And so that's why I wanted to talk about it for a minute. Because if anybody's out there listening.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And you have that scenario, you know, that's wild. Yeah.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

Very, very cool.

[D]

It's.

[B]

I mean, very interesting disease process. Not cool, I guess I should say, but very interesting disease process.

[C]

So her main question, I guess then was emotionally or how do you deal

[D]

with your own pets in an emergency situation?

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Which I. I mean, I've. I don't think I've ever had an emergent situation, but I don't know because she said she would pass it off. I don't know if I would, like, like, pass it off. And like, I don't know if she meant, like, just walk away and let other people make the calls of things. I don't think I could do that. Like, I wouldn't just walk away from my pet. Like, I would want to make all the decisions and things.

[C]

Like that means, like, being hands on.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's what.

[D]

Yeah. So I don't know, like, if she just, like she wants to step. I don't know. But I mean, I would want to be there. Like, I wouldn't just fully be like, I can't do it.

[C]

I guess I just imagine her saying, like, instead of her place in the catheter, somebody else would.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

Just literally be. Be there.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

As like, that's true. In the paw.

[B]

Yeah. Like handing the case off in that regard. Like the work of the case.

[D]

The actual physical.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. That she's. When I went through the emergency with Walter, my cat, I. If I was thinking through, like, I Was trying so hard to break through the emotion, to think through what disease processes could be going on and how I would have taken him to the clinic to do the X rays. But I truly don't think I would have been able to make any decisions emotional like, because of how strong my emotion was and he was my soul cat or whatever. So I think in that regard, like, I could have tried to do the bare minimum, which I, I did. I called my, I called my friend, a fellow vet, and Courtney, I was like, get the, get the frosamide, get this, get that, whatever, and come to my house. But other than that, I couldn't. I didn't listen to his heart. I didn't do anything. I couldn't, I couldn't think.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So I think anytime there's something going on with my pets, at least for me, unless it's like something pretty non fatal. Pretty like, Yeah. A limp, an ear, whatever, I, I have my colleagues look at it or look at what I'm thinking and tell me what they would do. Yeah.

[B]

I think it gets classified into situations like, I agree with you because like, you know, when he got a fish hook in her mouth. Well, I mean, like, okay, whatever, you know, like you're gonna treat that, you know, but like trying to decide, is that really osteosarcoma involving her proximal humerus? Like, I mean, like, I think it is. Does anybody else here in this room, they get it like, you know, because like, you know, you have, you, you're weighing, you're acting as an owner at the same time, you're wearing the hat of the clinician.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And so I think it is really situational where some situations you feel like, I think, like also like internal medicine stuff. Like, I don't mind working up my AN for internal medicine stuff. Like that doesn't bother me. I don't feel like I have to be in a hurry. I don't feel like. But like emergent things like, I don't know. It's so fascinating. I feel like you have to be in that situation.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Yeah. Where sometimes like you go then do this autopilot though too.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

Do you ever do that where like, you don't think about the fact that you're animal.

[D]

You know, the out. Because you've seen so many bad things or you've seen it happen before, you know the outcome and then you're kind of just like, I'm going to be in denial just for a second.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

And you don't want to accept it just for a Little bit, but

[C]

stay with us.

[D]

We'll be right back.

[B]

Tickets are on sale now for the Veterinary Roundtable live at WVC Nashville 2026, where we're having the ultimate western themed night out for veterinary professionals. Join us on Sunday, August 16 for a night of absolute chaos in the best way possible.

[D]

Hosted by Dr. Adam Christman alongside special guests Sarah Parsons and Walter Brown, this one of a kind live experience is more than just a show. It's a full on celebration of the veterinary profession and the incredible people who make it what it is.

[B]

Expect an unforgettable evening featuring a special

[D]

live Veterinary Roundtable podcast episode, an interactive game show packed with surprises, a veterinary happy hour with themed cocktails, free food and drinks, thousands of dollars in prizes and giveaways and more.

[E]

Dust off your boots, grab your cowboy hat and get ready for a night of connection, celebration and pure veterinary chaos.

[B]

Tickets are limited and they will sell out, so grab your friends, grab your co workers and grab your tickets. Now through the link in the show notes. We'll see you at Cannery hall for the Veterinary Roundtable live at WVC Nashville 2026.

[C]

Yeah, I don't know, it's funny that I. I've thought, I'm like, okay, if Phyllis ever got like a GDV and it was a weekend, what would I do? And I mean, I wouldn't let her die. I'd have to, I'd have to use my knowledge. But I think separating it is hard.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Well, I also, when it comes to my own animal, I just like go stupid because I can't think straight.

[C]

Yeah.

[E]

I think the closest thing is when he had a vagal response and literally just passed out. Or his seizures. Like, I know I've dealt with seizures, but like seeing it.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

Like he's like the baby of the family.

[D]

Shoot. Miles ate weed and I freaked out because he unresponsive and it was just weed, like, and I couldn't think straight. See, I was like, he's dying.

[B]

I don't feel like I carry the emotional load until everything's done. Yeah, it's almost like I can work through the cases but like I don't even think about it necessarily until. Yeah, it's done a lot of the time. Like if it was. If you were, you know what I mean? Like, and then it hits you and it's like processing, oh, crap, you know, this was my dog or whatever. I don't know know. But I also understand how people are like, I can't do this. It's my dog.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Or My cat or my, you know, whatever it would.

[C]

I will say with Walter situation. I was solo parenting and I had Helen, who was a year and a half, maybe less than.

[D]

Not even, I don't think.

[C]

And she was also like, this cat was howling the death howl in my house and I didn't want her to.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So I think I actually truly, in that scenario, I went more mom mode.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And I was like, like trying to sing to cover it up. And then that's when I had no room to deal with that. Yeah.

[B]

You were wearing way too you a lot of hats.

[C]

Yeah, that was.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

It's hard.

[E]

Over stimulated and trying to.

[C]

That was. Yeah, that was a. That was an emergent situation.

[E]

It was hard.

[D]

It was a lot.

[B]

Yeah, that was definitely an emergent situation.

[C]

That was horrible. Still miss that cat.

[D]

I've never drove so fast in my life. Surprising. Get pulled over.

[B]

I think too, as veterinarians, a lot of times we end up having like, just boxes. We check, like processes.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So it's like you kind of just revert. You just like, boom. Go to the, like what you were doing. Like, all right, bring me the first my. Bring me this, bring me that. You know, like, you kind of like go to this, like, process, right.

[C]

Yeah, I think it does.

[D]

I think that's harder. Sound mind, though, with you too, during those situations.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Like listening to KP talk to you. Like, I remember what she was saying to you. And I think it's helpful to have like a colleague.

[B]

Oh, sure.

[D]

Someone you trust who does have like a. They don't have the emotional attachment to like, actually be real with you and tell you and keep you level.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's a lot to carry.

[C]

It is a lot to carry. Interesting.

[E]

I'm sorry you had to carry that so early on. Yes.

[B]

Especially early on in your career. And then, you know, I mean, good

[C]

for her for taking a step back if that's what she felt like she needed. I think that was the other point of her discussion was the lack of empathy. And do we come across that.

[B]

That ever.

[C]

I guess. Right. Is that what she was saying? How she had to step away because she lost all the empathy?

[D]

Like, how do you come back from that? Maybe.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. Because I think. Yeah. Anyway, I don't know if there was a question in that statement, but yeah,

[E]

I think it's a normal feeling. I don't think it's wrong to feel that way.

[C]

Right.

[B]

I think that is. Isn't that part of a response, like, to that type of trauma Like a trauma response, probably. You know, I'm not a psychologist or a therapist, so I don't know, but I feel like that's like a.

[D]

Well, like, you're numb after a little bit.

[B]

Yes. Like, you're like, well, it's probably your

[D]

brain protecting you for a second.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Because you can't take any more hits. And so your brain's like, nope, you're. You're off. Your emotions are off.

[B]

Well, that is true. I mean, your brain does go into that protective mode that's. It's designed to do that.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. So I feel like I get the feeling of burnout or empathy when over time, you, like, you watch people have a mentality about animals that you don't necessarily agree with, so they don't. They don't do the bare minimum even, or they complain about it, or. I had a situation where somebody was talking to me about their animal and saying how their animal was in pain, but, you know, they're on a budget, and it's like, okay, but you have a limping dog that's really uncomfortable for two weeks, and you don't even want to alleviate that pain. And they're part of your family. Like, that's where I guess I struggle, and I'm like, I don't know. Over time, as that happens, and it's like, well, if you don't care, then why am I gonna care? Because I don't know. That's kind of.

[B]

No, I think that's a big place where that definition of what that relationship looked like differs so much from what we think it is. I think that's a. I think, think right now, especially right now, and everything that's happening with the economy and people struggling to, you know, be able to afford things.

[C]

Right.

[B]

That's a huge thing that I think you. We continue to probably be exposed to.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

And every single day in an exam room.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Where then it's kind of like.

[D]

I think that's a big factor because. Yeah.

[B]

You're like, why am I doing what I'm doing?

[D]

Because you don't want to care more than the client. But then again, like, we're there to help pets.

[E]

Yeah.

[D]

Like, that's literally our whole job. We show up every single day to help animals, and when we can't do it because an owner won't allow us that. I get. Money's a thing. But, like, that's our whole job. And then if we're not allowed to help them, what. What's the point of being here? Like, why are we doing what we're doing.

[C]

I don't know. It makes me want to say, don't have an animal. Then, like. But then it just. Then you go back to the discussions we've had of, like, I don't know, is it a right? Is it a privilege? I don't know. It gets in the weeds. It's different for everybody.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is. And it's hard, you know, people's circumstances. Everybody's circumstances are different, you know? Yep. Yeah, it is hard. It is hard to know something and know that you can do something about it and then not be allowed to. That is really disheartening.

[C]

Yep. And sometimes that includes humane euthanasia. That decision and that thought process where it's like, I can end this animal suffering.

[B]

You have to let. But you have to let me. Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

That's hard. Our jobs are hard. I'm not sure how many answers we offered there, but we definitely could commiserate.

[E]

So.

[C]

Yeah, we need a drink or a therapy session after all that.

[D]

I don't know. Okay, on to News V News.

[B]

Okay, let me pull up the articles.

[C]

They were kind of interesting.

[D]

Okay, which one? Not as interesting as the rabies.

[C]

Yeah, we've been talking about rabies a lot.

[B]

So which one are we going to do first?

[C]

The AI.

[D]

Oh, God.

[A]

AI.

[B]

Okay. What did you think about this duckwall, since you, you know, form diagnosis and all that kind of.

[C]

This is from VIN, and it's A. The title is A.I. guard rails emerge as Veterinarians. Mole Ethics, Safety Risk. I don't know. This. This article, I feel like the title is the meat of the.

[A]

Of it.

[C]

It basically says that there's more AI services coming out in the veterinary field, and they're telling these companies and these. Whatever you want to call it, these companies, I guess, to expose whether or not veterinarians are, what, a part of the process and a part of the. The entity that they've created. I don't know why I'm assuming they're just trying to make sure that there's credibility behind what they're. They've created.

[B]

Yeah. And I think accuracy probably too. Like. Right. Like, they've cite the radiology study that they did where they used six AI tools and the error rate was really high, which I've always said in X ray. Like, I feel like right now, anyway, AI reading X ray. I like. It's gonna catch what I can catch. It's not really helpful from the perspective of, like, finding something that I'm not going to find.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's why I would be using it to be like, oh, did you see this over here? I see the obvious spondylosis. Like I don't need your help with that. Like, I need to know is there anything else in this gray area that I should be focused on?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And I just don't think it's good at that.

[C]

No, I don't think so.

[B]

I think it's great at filtering through data. Like if you want to find, I don't know, like the latest research article on something or you know, like give me all of the differential diagnosis for a high alp, a high alt, or

[D]

going through like 17, 000 page records

[B]

for you or something like things like that or the scribing. Like I think that's really beneficial. Yeah, but like interpreting.

[C]

Yeah. I think it should add to your process of decision making and walking through a case, but not make the decision for you. And I fear that especially with where we're at in AI and potentially these tools, like a lot of people might get lazy and just rely on it to make the decision for them. And I think that's where the safety is lost. It makes me nervous. Like we talked about last time, the AI for the cardio stuff. Okay. Maybe use it to either clarify or I don't know, if you're wishy washy, solidify. But like don't say, oh, I don't know. Let's just see what this says. Oh, okay.

[B]

Right, whatever.

[D]

Don't rely on this.

[C]

Yeah, exactly.

[E]

It's gotta be true.

[B]

Yeah. So guardrails are probably good.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

Yes, agreed. Okay. Second One is from DVM360. It's Mars recalls pedigree dog food after allegedly diverted product reaches consumers amid foreign material risk. Oh, geez. More. See, this is the problem. There's too many damn dog foods.

[C]

There's so many.

[D]

There's way too many dog foods and. Oh my God.

[B]

So these too many dog food got diverted.

[E]

Smuggled.

[D]

Yes.

[B]

Literally smuggled back into the U.S. right. And then put into the population of food.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

That's so crazy.

[C]

And it has metal and plastic in it. Like it's not some cheese. Obese, low key contamination is like.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

A big deal. Yeah, yeah.

[D]

It's not something small. Yeah.

[E]

It could cause a foreign body or it could stab.

[C]

Lacerate.

[D]

If it's a. Yeah, lacerate. Harm your pet.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[D]

So Mars warned that the affected cans may contain sharp pieces of metal and plastic that could injure a dog if ingested, with risks ranging from choking to lacerations or gastrointestinal. Blockages.

[B]

Fantastic.

[C]

What is the food? So people know.

[D]

Is there the lot.

[B]

They list the lot numbers here.

[D]

Is it the one that's circled or the red box?

[B]

Well, the. They're 13.2 ounces. Cans sold under lock codes 613 C3KK CFC and 613 C1KK CFC.

[D]

So if you feed Pedigree. Check your cans, people.

[B]

Check your cans.

[E]

Should be printed on the bottom of the can.

[B]

It is. Yep, exactly.

[C]

It's specifically Pedigree. Pedigree canned high protein chopped chicken and duck flavored.

[A]

Ever yum.

[E]

Very specific.

[C]

Yep.

[D]

There's a husky on the can.

[B]

That's crazy.

[E]

That is crazy.

[C]

Okay, this last article is kind of. Kind of funky.

[B]

I thought it was really interesting.

[C]

I thought it was too. And it kind of makes me want to tell the breeders, like, stop trying

[B]

to shrink the dog.

[C]

Yes.

[D]

Yeah. Good luck with that.

[C]

Okay, why don't you talk about it then?

[B]

Okay. This article is from DVM360. It was published June 25th of 2026. It's about a Cornell study links cranial shape and body weight to syringomyelia risk.

[D]

Oh, geez.

[B]

And so what they did was they looked at. It was retrospective. Right. They just looked at all these dogs who had CT scans of their heads. I think it was like 852 dogs, I think is what this says of varying breeds who received CT scans of the heads. And I think at Cornell.

[D]

Right.

[C]

Duckwall. Yep.

[B]

Was it Cornell? Then they examined body weight related to cranial shape. And so they sorted dogs into categories ranging from extremely round heads to three quantitative measures or whatever. And then what they found was strong evidence that when dogs get smaller, they don't reduce in size proportionately or isometrically. They actually have a recognizable shape change, which is allometric scaling. So we're not just looking at a miniature wolf like skull. We're actually seeing that as the dog shrinks. It just makes me think of that movie the honey you shrunk the kids. The cranium undergoes ballooning of the vault that holds the brain, creating a rounder shape.

[D]

So more of the story. Stop making damn men and Bernadoodle.

[C]

Yes, that's right.

[D]

I thought, God, like, they're getting smaller and smaller and smaller.

[C]

Yes.

[D]

Like teacup breeds. No.

[B]

Yes.

[D]

Mini Burner Doodles. No. Especially if you're trying to take a Bernese mountain dog and get it that small.

[E]

Yeah.

[D]

They're poor brains.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Oh, my God.

[C]

It's really bad. It's really bad.

[D]

Like, just Stop. Leave the dogs alone. They don't need to be small. If you want a small breed, get a small br. Like don't make a new small breed. Just get one that already exists. That's okay.

[B]

And this is one of the facts that they listed is that for every 2.2 pounds of body weight that you reduce, there's a 25 increase in the risk of being in a group that's going to get syringomyelia.

[D]

Gosh dang.

[B]

And the shorter and wider the cranium is, the higher risk you have of being in that group.

[C]

That 25 is.

[B]

That's a lot. That's a lot.

[A]

That is.

[B]

That's 1 kg basically of reduction in body weight.

[E]

That's literally sad.

[B]

Said so like think you take these a painful condition.

[C]

It's painful people.

[B]

Yeah. It's like when you. You see some of these dogs, like the ones that are the huskies that go. Yeah, like the miniature huskies then like remember what's his name?

[C]

The.

[B]

Do you know who I'm talking about?

[E]

Like potentially.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And like a full size husky reduced to a miniature sized husky and you're like that's a major reduction. Now he's not a breed that typically has a bone whatever.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Dome shaped head. But still it's sad.

[C]

These miniature burner doodles out and about now they're so small. Bad.

[B]

How small are they?

[D]

And they're not good looking dogs either.

[C]

I mean the one that I just saw was like a dachshund size, right?

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

She was like are long. They're odd. Yes.

[D]

Yeah. The Bernardoes are getting long. They have long bodies piece. Tell me where that comes from.

[C]

Like not like not short legs.

[A]

Proportional.

[D]

No, but they're.

[E]

But like size wise.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Well I mean I guess if you're shrinking them down, I mean maybe their backs aren't shrinking at the same rate as everything else.

[C]

I don't know.

[B]

I don't know.

[D]

It's just not right.

[B]

It's basically their mixed breed dogs.

[D]

So they are their mutts.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

Go to the freaking shelter.

[C]

But the purebreds that can get this condition are the cavities. Cavalier King Charles spaniels, Affin pinchers, Brussels griffons.

[D]

Those dogs are so cute.

[C]

And pom poms. So the small ones in general.

[E]

I know. I instantly thought of those chihuahuas that have the big old apple heads.

[B]

Oh yeah.

[E]

Gosh. We have a few that are.

[A]

Wow.

[E]

They're really.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[E]

Like look at your little apple head.

[C]

I think I did have. This was an anomaly. But I Had a. A pity mix that had it. This disease. And she would yelp to the stars like she was in so much pain. Until they went and got the diagnosis, MRI and whatever. But painful. It's so sad.

[D]

Okay, okay, okay. So breeders.

[C]

Also real quick, we talked about screw worm stuff last time.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

This past week, I had two people going to Texas.

[B]

What did you do? What did you have to do?

[C]

Well, one of them was just visiting and a vacationing. And so I was like, we need to tell them. And they're an older couple. I was like, they should just not take their dog. This is the dog with the paw that's been having the paw.

[D]

And it was demon, the really bad skin.

[C]

And it's been going on for months.

[B]

Yeah. That's all that dog needs.

[C]

Yeah. So.

[B]

And then to come back to Indiana. Bring it back to Indiana.

[D]

Right.

[C]

That's what.

[D]

Yeah. So I called them after the appointment.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Because she didn't think about until after the fact. And so I called him and she was like, oh, my God, thank you so much. I was like, yeah, you probably shouldn't take Tiger.

[C]

Yeah, I don't think they are, hopefully.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

And then we have a family that they're. They're from Texas. They're up here visiting their parents. Got a dog. So the dog's going back to live in Texas. And so I was like, are you aware of this groomer? And he's like, oh, my gosh. Yeah. I'm freaking out. What do we do? And I know that you had said last week that Indiana had set laws or rules. I mean, I just. I don't know what they are. I didn't look it up, but I told them. I was like, well, in general, if your dog has a wound, get it treated immediately. Don't let her spend time outside, which it's hot. Anyways. I was like, you definitely need to get established with the vets down there to see what their protocols are since they're obviously in the thick of it.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

And then.

[B]

Yeah, I'd love to know. Like, so if you start that dog on, like, trio. Yeah.

[C]

Which we did.

[B]

You know, like, is it.

[A]

Then.

[B]

Is it protected even though it's not one of the approved. Like, it's not credilio and it's not. I can't remember the.

[C]

Oh, I see what you're saying.

[B]

Next guard or whatever? Like, is it being treated right? Do you know what I mean? Like, so, like, if a fly lands on it, then does that products.

[C]

Okay. Like, is it a different Ingredient. Because if it's all the same class, then theoretically, I would think it's fine. Right. But I don't know.

[B]

I need to ask Sarah Pete that question.

[C]

Yeah, it's a good question.

[B]

Okay. Oh, God, that's interesting.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[D]

Okay. Case collections. Mine's quick. It's just an update if you've been listening to the Round Table for a long time. I don't know if I. If you. I don't know how long ago I talked about her, but I talked about Janet. She was a German shepherd who had maggots in her vulva multiple times. Sweet girl. Was finally euthanized this week, unfortunately, due to a lot of. Of health problems. Her arthritis is bad. Well, I wasn't there to do the euthanasia. Neither was Duck Wall. I luckily somehow lucked out. Every time she came in for the maggot issue, I wasn't there. So I literally never once saw the maggots ever on this dog. I mean, I saw her all the time. But the attack. Who is doing the euthanasia? I told her the day before. I was like, hey, did you see who's on your schedule? And everybody in the clinic knows Janet. And so. And she's like, oh, my God, the maggots are just going to pour out of her. And I was like. I was like, no, it's not. No, she was here, and I don't think they were super concerned about it. It'll be fine. And then I come in the next day, and she's like. They literally. The owners came in. Elise walked into the exam room to do the euthanasia, and they were like, yeah, the maggots. This is the worst they've been. They tried to clean her up, like the owners at home a few days before the euthanasia, and they said they euthanized her, and they were just everywhere.

[E]

I didn't realize that she, like, it was bad.

[D]

So she's at peace. She's at rest now, but apparently it was the worst they had ever.

[C]

They were treating her for maggots twice a week since this first time.

[E]

I've never known.

[D]

They were flushing her vulva. And then they were like, yeah, her vulva was actually really raw. We understand what Duckwell was saying now.

[C]

Yeah, because I saw. We've talked about quality of life multiple times recently, and every time I felt like they understood and we were on the same page. But then it would go weeks to months and months. She was back on my schedule for an annual, and I look at her vulva and is ulcerated. And she winces with the. The like, I barely like a breeze. Yes. And I just was like, this is not good.

[B]

Is it just all from incontinence? Was it all from.

[C]

And she was on both prone and incur in, so. And I'm sure she had raging UTIs that were going past. Like, there was just so many.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So many things. And then she had other things going on, so.

[B]

Oh, gosh.

[C]

She's not in pain.

[D]

No. And her friends are dead.

[B]

And her friends are dead. No free lunch anymore.

[D]

Yeah, it was. It was really bad.

[E]

But on that note, I have a quick one. We had a bunny come in today.

[C]

Oh, and. Sorry.

[E]

We got a video. They pulled a cuterbra out of its eyeball.

[D]

Did you see it on Group Me?

[B]

Amazing. No, I didn't.

[D]

Oh, you have to watch it. Watch the video.

[C]

It's too scared.

[D]

Do it. It's really cool.

[E]

No.

[C]

Okay.

[D]

It, like, the video, like, ends as soon as she gets the whole thing out. But it's so cool.

[E]

That bunny's eye. Oh, my gosh. It started eating, like, right after.

[C]

Oh, was it even sedated?

[D]

It didn't look sedated.

[E]

I don't think she. But I don't. I wasn't there.

[B]

Was it in the globe or in the, like, conjunctiva or where was it living?

[E]

I'm not sure. I just know that bunny was. Came to us a couple days ago, but they couldn't tell what was going on because the eye just did not look well. And then the owner called the emergency line this morning and said, I think there's a maggot in the eye. And sure enough.

[C]

It's so cool. I don't think I want to watch it.

[B]

I don't want to rupture it.

[C]

I said, Faust had one in a cat.

[E]

Yes.

[B]

That's all the time.

[C]

And cats. Oh, yeah.

[D]

Isn't that so satisfying?

[C]

Isn't that so sick?

[E]

Poor little bunny. Its eye looks so. It was just like, oh,

[D]

It's so cool, though.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

So it must. I wonder if he lives outside in a hutch.

[E]

It did start outside. I don't know if it's now resides inside, but. But that was.

[B]

Yeah, we used to see them all the time in cats. And you would just open it up. You take a hemostat and just open up the. Because it's a little hole and you see something moving in, and you just open it up a little bit and then just gently reach.

[D]

Yeah, you can't pop them.

[C]

Pull it out.

[B]

It's so satisfying.

[C]

I'm like, oh, that.

[B]

That rabbit's gonna feel so much better. Yeah.

[D]

Yeah. Can you imagine the relief?

[C]

You should.

[D]

We should watch the video and look at the hole that's there after it's taken out. It's like a crater. That is not that bad.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Okay. That's good for cases.

[B]

Good job, guys. Those were great cases.

[D]

If we want to do a third case, our co workers went. Rescued a freaking bird out of the dumpster last week.

[E]

Yeah.

[D]

And brought it in the clinic.

[B]

Did it automatic automatically start flying around?

[E]

No. She took a look at it and then.

[D]

But they dumpstered open, brought the damn bird inside.

[E]

They took it back outside. She was said that it was a young bird, probably stunned. They took it back outside, and it literally.

[D]

It literally was perfectly fine. There was nothing wrong with the bird.

[E]

The bird could not get out of the dumpster.

[D]

Could it not get out of the dumpster? Did it choose to not get out of the dumpster? But every time we've brought a bird in the clinic, they start flying around. You can't catch them. That's why we don't see birds.

[B]

You know, what about. How's our kitten with the.

[C]

The salter fracture down?

[D]

Oh, she is thriving.

[E]

Yes. She is so cute.

[D]

She's so damn cute. She has a hun home.

[B]

Okay, that's awesome.

[D]

Someone at the clinic is taking her usually.

[B]

I can't wait to see her.

[C]

Oh, nice.

[B]

In four weeks or whatever. It's going to be awesome.

[D]

She's a happy girl.

[E]

She has a long recovery, unfortunately for her, because she's been screaming.

[B]

Oh, she doesn't like.

[D]

She's literally there to boost morale, though. If you're having a hard time, everybody just goes in there and loves on her.

[C]

Yeah.

[E]

She's so they had her out and she just lays in your lap.

[B]

She's like, thank you.

[E]

They took her donut off this afternoon and she was just lounging, getting treats and just chill.

[C]

She's a good cat.

[D]

She's a really good cat.

[B]

That's cool. Okay, on to listener inquiries.

[D]

Okay. Before we get into it, not only can you text or email us your listener inquiries, you can now send us a voicemail through the same link as we did today, where we played the voicemail for the Tales from the Trenches. So if you click the link at the top of the show notes, you can either send a text or a voicemail, and we will play your voicemail on the podcast so you can hear yourself.

[E]

You can hear yourself. Okay, I'll go ahead and do number One.

[D]

Okay.

[E]

Hello again, brt. I was the one who sent the rabies story a few weeks ago. Thank you for covering it. And I'm back again. And this time I won't be anonymous. I'm twinning with Dr. King, aka my name is Emily.

[B]

Okay.

[E]

I'm about to go into my first year of animal science pre vet degree at utk. Good old. And I just feel a little behind. I have around 345 hours as of now 187 being pet sitting for three main families. Families. 23 hours volunteering at a horse therapy center. And I'm working as a kennel tech at a small Animal fear free GP with 138 hours. I'm also hoping to start shadowing one of our veterinarians on farm calls. I won't be able to work that kennel tech as much with college coming up. But I plan to work every other weekend when I can to care for boarding animals. I'm very anxious person. I'm nervous that I don't have as many hours as I should. I also plan to be very involved in college. I'm a regional FFA officer in Tennessee and plan to apply for state office. I want to join the agriculture based sorority at utk Pre vet club and et cetera, et cetera. What are some tips, ways to stand out, build my resume, et cetera, to prepare for vet school. Thank you so much for all that you do and answering my questions that I'm sure you've been asked a million times, Emily.

[B]

Okay, well that's way more hours than I had.

[D]

I was gonna say that sounds like plenty.

[B]

And you haven't even gone into college.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Am I reading that right? Like you're starting college?

[D]

I think she's good.

[C]

Pre vet degree. Yeah.

[B]

Right. So she's starting college as a fresh.

[D]

Yeah, I think she's good.

[B]

You're good.

[C]

You're doing great.

[B]

You're doing great.

[C]

You're doing great.

[B]

You know what? I've. I'm big on this thing now where I heard Angela Duckworth, who wrote the book Grit and is doing all the work with getting all the self. This is so. Delete. Side note, getting all. Doing all the work with the schools in the states to get cell phones like out of school classrooms and stuff. Okay. Side note, anyway, she's really, she's a psychologist. She's a really cool person, writes a lot of really good information and, and one of the things she talked about was being able to show, if you're interviewing someone, being able to show that the Person has completed something from start to finish. Like they went. They did something hard and they started it and they finished it. And so what is it that you can show the admin team at wherever you're applying that you've done that? Because that is something that will speak to you being able to do well in veterinary school.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah. Makes sense.

[B]

So, like, that'd be the one thing I would tell you.

[D]

Well, yeah, because if you don't start and finish, you're a quitter.

[B]

You're a quitter.

[A]

Doesn't look good.

[C]

You last straight shooter.

[E]

Yep.

[B]

You're a quitter. So don't.

[C]

Sure. They have like pre vet things you can do at the vet school too.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

So do that.

[E]

But also her clubs. I feel like that would be very.

[B]

Yeah, but I think the, like the, the time, like the hours. Working with animals, just continue to acquire those over the weekends.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, in summers. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. All right, number two. Who wants to read that? I will. Okay.

[C]

Hi there. I'm in a dilemma. I work for a great clinic, but little room for growth as an rvt and my friend just graduated as a vet and within a few years has the opportunity to own a clinic. It would be more work in the beginning, more hours, but more pay for me. And I feel like we could turn it into great. What's your thoughts on taking such a big risk? Thanks in advance, Anonymous.

[D]

Well, risk equals reward.

[C]

Sometimes you don't know unless you try.

[B]

You got to do it. Why else would you. I mean, totally.

[D]

If you're getting more money, do it.

[E]

And if you're wanting growth and you're not getting it, like, you got to take a jump somewhere. Like, if not, then you're going to just be stuck.

[D]

Yeah. If you don't do this, you're going to find something else.

[B]

If you have an entrepreneurial spirit, go for it.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, because you're going to figure it out as you go through it. Start now. Like, she doesn't own the clinic. Her friend that's a vet doesn't own the clinic right now. So start learning how to run a practice.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So, yeah.

[C]

If you feel like it could turn into something great, you can pave your own way there. And you understand it's going to be a lot of work in the beginning. I really don't see why you wouldn't want to try. Right, right.

[D]

And if you hate it, you're not stuck. Yeah, necessarily.

[E]

And I feel like hard work stretches you as a technician and I feel like everyone needs that. Yeah. Every now and then.

[B]

Yeah, we're all vote yes.

[C]

Yeah, do it.

[D]

We're lightning.

[B]

I know. We're like, what would the risk be?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

Who cares? Let's do it.

[C]

We don't know you don't know your life.

[D]

We don't know your name.

[C]

Just do it.

[B]

I'm sure there is some risk, but as you can tell, we're written well,

[D]

there's risk with everything. There's risk with everything.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

We're not those risk averse people.

[C]

No, we're.

[B]

Do it.

[D]

Do it.

[B]

I feel like we're on America's Got Talent and we're, like, getting ready to hit the golden button or whatever they call it.

[D]

Like, oh, my God, I love America's Got Talent. It's so good.

[B]

Okay. Sorry.

[C]

Okay. That's all, folks.

[D]

That's all she wrote.

[C]

Thank you for tuning in to another episode of the Veterinary Roundtable. Remember to send in those questions and leave us a review. If you enjoyed this episode or a previous one, we'll see you next week for another episode of the Veterinary Round Table.

[E]

Bye.

[D]

Bye.