Do Pets Have Souls? Exploring Faith, Vet Med, and Pet Loss

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Veterinary Roundtable

Episode: Do Pets Have Souls? Exploring Faith, Vet Med, and Pet Loss
Date: July 28, 2026
Hosts: Dr. Ashlyn Duckwall, Dr. Emily King, Courtney Allen

Main Theme and Purpose

In this episode, The Veterinary Roundtable takes on big listener questions about the soulfulness of pets, the impact of faith in veterinary work, and the complexities of pet loss. The hosts blend personal experience, medical expertise, and humor to address difficult topics—including faith-based perspectives on animals' souls, professional opinions on pet nutrition, reflections on emotionally charged clinical cases, and reactions to the shifting landscape of vet med. This episode is rich with open conversation—highlighting the balance of science, ethics, and empathy needed in veterinary practice.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Peak and Pit: Personal & Clinic Updates

Timestamps: [05:49]–[13:27]

• Studio News & Life Updates: Courtney celebrates the new, cooler studio, making her (and her pregnancy) happier during recordings.
  • "Our old studio was blazing hot ... This studio is much cooler. So the pregnant lady's happy." – Courtney [05:51]
• Personal “Peak and Pit” Sharing:
  • Courtney: Car in the shop before baby's arrival is a pit; not sweating in studio is the peak. [06:06]
  • Emily: Elderly cat Lenny is struggling but still full of personality; shares compassion and sadness for aging pets. [06:52]
  • Duckwall: Upcoming difficult euthanasia is a pit; daughter's imaginative play is a peak, sharing a touching and funny story about her 3-year-old. [11:13]
    • "She left all of her imaginary friends and just said they're—the party was over." – Dr. Duckwall [12:57]

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2. Listener Follow-Up: Vet School Later in Life

Timestamps: [13:29]–[14:34]

• A listener shares a success story about starting vet school in her 40s, encouraging persistence and alternative paths within vet med.
  • "Don't let age hold you back from your dreams... There are other ways you could increase veterinary availability in your area." – Listener [13:34]

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3. News & Medical Updates

a. Cyclospora Parasite Outbreak

Timestamps: [15:00]–[18:10]

• Key Info from Time Magazine: Parasite outbreak linked to fresh produce, especially affecting Michigan and 17 other states.
  • "Washing produce can physically remove some of it... But foods with lots of nooks and crannies like raspberries... are more likely to harbor the parasite." – Courtney [16:33]
• Vet Perspective: Most people recover without medication; at-risk individuals may need antibiotics. Doctors are on high alert, ready to order specialized tests.
  • "Most people can recover on their own, although the symptoms aren’t pleasant." – read aloud by Courtney [17:27]
  • Technical banter about which drugs could treat it and cross-reference between human and veterinary practices. [17:55–18:09]

b. Tractor Supply Acquires VIP Petcare

Timestamps: [21:18]–[24:39]

• Access vs. Quality vs. Affordability: Discussion on the benefits and drawbacks of veterinary services offered at big-box stores.
  • "The whole concept: you can have two of these three things—access, quality, affordability. You cannot have all three." – Dr. King [22:39]
  • Recognition that expanded access may mean lower service quality.
• Rabies Vaccination Anecdote:
  • Dr. Duckwall recounts a client declining rabies vaccine with unusual reasoning (“If someone is getting close enough to my dog to get bit... they're somewhere where they shouldn't be”). [23:24]

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c. Midwestern University Cancels Vet College Plans

Timestamps: [26:22]–[27:28]

• Midwestern University halts plans for a new veterinary college in Illinois to focus resources on existing programs.
  • "They concluded the greatest and most lasting impact comes from concentrating its efforts on existing programs." – Dr. Duckwall [26:53]

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4. Veterinary Case Study: Feline Urethral Obstruction

Timestamps: [27:34]–[34:33]

• Case Overview: 11-year-old cat presented with urinary blockage; owners noted subtle signs but sought care promptly.
• Teamwork in Action:
  • Dr. King initiates emergency care; teamwork across the staff is highlighted, especially with a high-stress decompressive cysto.
  • Use of a coccygeal block (tail block) with buprenorphine to manage pain—demonstrated as highly effective and less stressful for the patient.
  • "Moral of the story is: don't be afraid of the coccygeal block." – Dr. King [33:46]
• Outcome: Cat does well post-surgery; collaborative case sparks discussion on the joys of collegial problem-solving.

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5. Listener Inquiries

a. Do Pets Have Souls? (Faith and Vet Med)

Timestamps: [35:36]–[39:16]

• Question: Vet tech student and new Catholic asks about Catholic doctrine regarding pet souls, and how faith intersects with euthanasia and vet work.
  • Dr. King references Catholic teaching: humans have an immortal, rational soul; animals have a sensitive (non-immortal) soul.
    • "In Catholic teaching, the human body possesses a unique dignity because humans are created in the image of God and have an immortal, rational soul...Animals possess what is called a sensitive soul..." – Dr. King [36:21]
  • Dr. Duckwall offers a personal, more nuanced view: “I don't look at it as black and white... I think all of God's creation will be with us in some way or fashion.” [38:09]
  • The hosts admit that ultimate knowledge about souls and heaven is unknowable until death.
  • "We'll never know until we are in heaven." – Dr. Duckwall [39:27]

b. Pet Food, Social Media, and Board Certification

Timestamps: [39:48]–[44:33]

• Question: Pre-vet asks about unqualified “animal nutritionists” and how to trust dog/cat food brands.
• Hosts’ Consensus: Support for established brands (Purina, Hill’s/Science Diet) that employ board-certified DVM nutritionists and rigorously research formulas.
  • "Most of the food companies that we recommend have DVMs that are board-certified nutritionists." – Dr. King [40:33]
  • Skepticism toward social media “nutritionists” with limited formal training.
  • "If you really want a reliable food source, then you have to look for those credentials." – Dr. Duckwall [40:43]
• Beyond Science Diet: A humorous story about a client who believed prescription diets are devoid of nutrition, but trusts a mail-order supplement instead.
  • "You're, like, contradicting yourself." – Dr. Duckwall [43:17]
• Advice: Ignore hype, do research, consult your vet.
  • "At the end of the day, people are gonna do what they want to do, so the best we can do is give them our spiels." – Dr. Duckwall [44:01]
  • "Trust your vet, then—just trust your vet." – Dr. Duckwall [44:25]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "She left all of her imaginary friends and just said they're—the party was over." – Dr. Duckwall (on her daughter's imaginative play) [12:57]
• "You can have two of these three things: access, quality, affordability. You cannot have all three." – Dr. King [22:39]
• "I don't look at it as black and white. I look at it as God created… everything God has created is good." – Dr. Duckwall (on pets and souls) [38:09]
• "Moral of the story is: don't be afraid of the coccygeal block." – Dr. King [33:46]
• "At the end of the day, people are gonna do what they want to do, so the best we can do is give them our spiels." – Dr. Duckwall [44:01]

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Episode Structure Highlights (with Timestamps)

• [05:49] Peak and Pit — Personal and clinic highs & lows
• [13:29] Listener follow-up: Vet med beyond age
• [15:00] News: Cyclospora produce outbreak
• [21:18] News: Tractor Supply’s expansion in pet care
• [26:22] News: Midwestern pauses vet college plans
• [27:34] Case Study: Urethral obstruction teamwork
• [35:36] Faith question: Do pets have souls?
• [39:48] Nutrition question: Vet food and social media misinformation

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Overall Tone

Casual, candid, and highly relatable—this episode balances heartfelt stories, expert advice, and plenty of humor. The hosts are open about what they know and don’t know, making space for faith, science, and emotion in equal measure.

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For New Listeners

This episode is great for anyone curious about the compassionate, ethical, and sometimes spiritual dimensions of veterinary medicine—plus, you'll learn about practical teamwork in clinics, consumer protection when choosing pet food, and the value of community in both faith and science.

Transcript

[Courtney Allen]

Foreign.

[Dr. Emily King]

And welcome to another episode of the Veterinary Roundtable, the podcast where we answer your veterinary related questions while having some fun along the way. If you enjoyed today's episode or a previous episode, be sure to leave us a review on your podcast provider of choice. And if you have any feedback to offer to improve the Veterinary Roundtable, let us know.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

We're here for it.

[Courtney Allen]

Our reviews didn't move.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Is that for sure? It didn't move.

[Courtney Allen]

I don't know.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

We could tickle them.

[Courtney Allen]

I know. In fact, can you see the monitors? Because I could see them. I could see the monitors.

[Dr. Emily King]

We're at 450 views.

[Richie King]

What?

[Courtney Allen]

We're at 450.

[Richie King]

I thought that's what's on the itinerary.

[Courtney Allen]

446. I said we're almost at 450.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Oh. Oh, my gosh. Nobody knows what Harrison looks like. There he is.

[Dr. Emily King]

There he is.

[Courtney Allen]

Yeah, you can see. You can see yourself on the monitor now. Yeah, because I was watching myself the whole last episode.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Oh. And he's in it.

[Dr. Emily King]

I know.

[Courtney Allen]

You can see him, though.

[Dr. Emily King]

He can't.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

He cannot start wearing weird pants or socks and see.

[Courtney Allen]

Anyone notice this?

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Yeah.

[Dr. Emily King]

So, yeah, we're climbing up there with the reviews.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Boom.

[Dr. Emily King]

We were talking. Courtney and I were talking before, and, you know, it is something that we're slightly scared about because it's really close to 500.

[Courtney Allen]

Y.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

We are. Could we say halfway to 500?

[Dr. Emily King]

I mean, we are halfway to 500.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Like 50 more. Yeah, that's what I meant.

[Dr. Emily King]

Yeah, I know what you meant.

[Courtney Allen]

Halfway through 400.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

That's a better way to say it.

[Dr. Emily King]

Yes. So we'll get to that after we finish the live show.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Boom. We're having a live show, people, if you didn't know it already. That's right. Yep.

[Dr. Emily King]

Buy those tickets. They're two thirds of the way sold out.

[Courtney Allen]

So if you don't buy it now, you might not be able to go.

[Dr. Emily King]

And be really sure you get in there because it's going to be a great time. It's 5.99. You get food, drinks, specialty drinks.

[Courtney Allen]

5.99. And a good time.

[Dr. Emily King]

And a good time.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Entertainment. Special guests, game shows. Nashville, Tennessee. You get to visit Nashville. If you're not already there.

[Dr. Emily King]

We're giving away money as prizes. We're giving away items which we're not going to tell you because they're surprises.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Special drinks.

[Dr. Emily King]

It's going to be pretty cool.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Yeah. Yeah. Special guests.

[Dr. Emily King]

Special guests.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Walter Brown. Sarah Parsons. Adam Christman.

[Dr. Emily King]

Yep. So join us.

[Richie King]

I can tease one of the get one of the giveaways right now.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Oh.

[Courtney Allen]

What? I was about to say one.

[Dr. Emily King]

But tell us.

[Richie King]

Obviously, giving away a lot of veterinary pet related themed things. But, yes, one of the things we're giving away because we're very big about usability, you know, we don't want to just give you a pen and then you're just going to throw it away because that's not what we're.

[Courtney Allen]

Right.

[Dr. Emily King]

No.

[Richie King]

So. Right, Courtney? Am I right?

[Courtney Allen]

Oh, for sure.

[Richie King]

Hit me with. Hit me with an amen.

[Dr. Emily King]

Amen.

[Courtney Allen]

Amen.

[Richie King]

Okay, so we have yeti cups that we're giving away that are BRT themed.

[Courtney Allen]

We should have brought ours.

[Richie King]

And we're super pumped for you to get them.

[Courtney Allen]

And you'll be able to match the vert ladies, because we have customized thanks to.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

That's right.

[Courtney Allen]

Yetis. Thanks to Duffel's.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Our Christmas all the time.

[Dr. Emily King]

Yeah. I love mine.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Yes.

[Dr. Emily King]

Because it goes and then goes in.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Yeah.

[Dr. Emily King]

Do you know what I mean?

[Courtney Allen]

Like, cute.

[Dr. Emily King]

Yeah.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

And it's a good size if you're like, oh, I just want a little something. Not a big something.

[Dr. Emily King]

When you want a little nip. Nip.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

A nip.

[Courtney Allen]

Nip.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

What's that?

[Dr. Emily King]

You know, little.

[Courtney Allen]

Is that if you want to nip.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Nip. All you listeners get this cup at our live show.

[Courtney Allen]

Is that a term you use often or you just make that up?

[Dr. Emily King]

That's a richie term.

[Courtney Allen]

Makes sense.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

It's a what term?

[Dr. Emily King]

Richie.

[Richie King]

Yeah.

[Courtney Allen]

That makes you want to nip?

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Yeah. You know, like. Sounds like an inside joke to me. Yeah.

[Dr. Emily King]

Okay, now you're there.

[Courtney Allen]

Okay.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

All right. Anyway. Yeah, okay. Yeah, I love my yeti cup. So that is recent enough to spend 5.99.

[Courtney Allen]

5.99 for like a 50 cup.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Yeah.

[Dr. Emily King]

Also, they're working hard on the caterer. I mean, it's decoration.

[Courtney Allen]

Yeah. There's going to be really good food.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

We actually have a rehearsal right after this.

[Dr. Emily King]

That's right.

[Courtney Allen]

Yes.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

We're going to be prepared for everybody.

[Courtney Allen]

Yep.

[Dr. Emily King]

Okay.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Okay, great. I think we did a good job there.

[Courtney Allen]

Check out our Instagram and Tick Tock at the Veterinary Roundtable. We have all of our live show actually promo stuff on there. And it's really funny. We worked really hard on it, so you can check it out there, too. And then we also have a YouTube channel where our video podcasts are published, and that is the Veterinary Roundtable on YouTube.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Boom.

[Dr. Emily King]

Sweet. I'm Dr. Emily King.

[Courtney Allen]

I'm Courtney Allen.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

I'm Dr. Ashton Duckwall.

[Courtney Allen]

And you're listening to the Veterinary Round Table.

[Dr. Emily King]

Duckwall's had a nip nip.

[Richie King]

So I totally did not get the sequence of that, like, at all, because I. All the cameras are, like, different on my end. So when you said, like, I'm Courtney Allen, I went to Duckwall.

[Courtney Allen]

Okay, well, you should know who we are. But if you're new here, figure it out.

[Dr. Emily King]

You know, surprisingly, you know, that's what I would always think is, like, it's the same. But we've had so many people be like, I binge listened or watched, you know, and so there are new people. So that's really interesting. Let's totally confuse everyone. I'm Courtney Allen.

[Courtney Allen]

I'm Harrison King.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

I'm Ally Cook, Ali mc.

[Dr. Emily King]

Oh, wait, she's not even here. Okay, I'm Richie King.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Nip nip. Give me some nip nips. This has escalated quickly.

[Courtney Allen]

Give me some. During the live show, when you guys need a refill, just start.

[Dr. Emily King]

I'm gonna be like, nip nips.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

I feel like we are. Because we're in closer proximity to each other, is just vibing.

[Courtney Allen]

Yeah.

[Dr. Emily King]

Oh, you mean with our chairs.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Yeah, I know.

[Richie King]

I'm telling you, it's way cozier down here.

[Courtney Allen]

No, I can. That can be my peak once we get to. Hold on.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

All right.

[Dr. Emily King]

Okay, go ahead.

[Courtney Allen]

Okay, great. Well, we moved to a new studio, and our old studio was blazing hot. Like, I sweat every single episode. I did bring a fan one time. This studio is much cooler. So the pregnant lady's happy.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Yeah.

[Courtney Allen]

I'm not sweating, so that is my peak.

[Dr. Emily King]

What's your pit?

[Courtney Allen]

My pit I kind of already talked about before I started recording. But my car's in the shop, which is a little inconvenient because I really wanted my husband to clean it this weekend because I told him it needs to be deep cleaned before the baby's here. And we should probably put the car seat.

[Dr. Emily King]

That's probably a good idea.

[Courtney Allen]

The car seat's not in the car yet.

[Dr. Emily King]

Said child would come anytime.

[Courtney Allen]

So hopefully we get my car back this weekend. If. I mean, we have a second car, but I'd rather the car seat not be installed in the truck. Yeah. Because I already can't ride in the truck as it is right now because it makes me really nauseous.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Oh, no. So we'll see.

[Dr. Emily King]

Well, yeah.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Good thing to make car seats nowadays. Very easily.

[Courtney Allen]

You just. Yeah. It won't be the end of the world, but hopefully we'll get my car back.

[Dr. Emily King]

Got it.

[Courtney Allen]

Yeah.

[Dr. Emily King]

My pit this week. Is that my cat, who's really, really Old. My orange cat. My male orange.

[Richie King]

Lenny.

[Dr. Emily King]

Lenny, who is super old, but he's

[Courtney Allen]

just hanging in there and just existing.

[Dr. Emily King]

He is, but like. He's like Harrison, how would you describe him? That's the problem right there. He is probably maybe half of his body weight now at this point, but he's already skinny. I know he still loves to go inside and outside. He still will leave me surprises some of the time.

[Courtney Allen]

Still hunting.

[Dr. Emily King]

But his arthritis is. I mean, I have him on Silencia, but. And he. Every summer, he starts to go through this fit of pulling out his hair. And I don't know why. I don't know if it's because Marty Holden's dog is back in the house or if it's summer or right or what it is. But he makes me sad when I look at him.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

I bought him some canned food.

[Courtney Allen]

Oh.

[Dr. Emily King]

Because I felt so bad for him. He really likes his canned food.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Well, that's good.

[Courtney Allen]

But he's not getting, like. Where does he pull out hair from?

[Dr. Emily King]

Anywhere.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

It's just like, oh, he's stressed.

[Dr. Emily King]

He's stressed.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Get him some proac.

[Dr. Emily King]

I'm not pilling him.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Yeah, you can make it into a tree or.

[Dr. Emily King]

He is so hard to trick. I had medi Melts or whatever. Like, the. The. The one company that had. That puts it in these tiny little, like, pellets.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Oh, yeah.

[Dr. Emily King]

Soft pellets. You know, I can't think of the name of the pharmacy, but. And he. That little stinker will not eat them. And I'd smush him between two, like, treats or whatever. And then try and get him now.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

So he's hyperthyroid, isn't he?

[Dr. Emily King]

I think he's slightly like. He. When I checked his blood, he was like, 4.7. He wasn't horrible, but I was like, all right, I'll start medicating you, like, once a day. 2.5. Once a day.

[Richie King]

Yeah.

[Dr. Emily King]

And so I did. But it was such a pain in the ass. I was like, forget it. Yeah.

[Courtney Allen]

Yeah.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

And he's so old.

[Dr. Emily King]

Just go be happy.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Well. And I. 131 would just.

[Dr. Emily King]

Yeah. I don't think I could do that to him.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Yeah. Push them over.

[Dr. Emily King]

Yeah. So that's my buddy. Yeah. My peak, on the other hand, is that I joined this vegetable farm thing with the high school because the high school has an organic farm.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Oh.

[Dr. Emily King]

And so then every week you get stuff.

[Courtney Allen]

Do they have the diarrhea?

[Dr. Emily King]

No, probably not.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Because it's.

[Dr. Emily King]

It's the. I don't know. I don't think so. I've watched it.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

You'll find out.

[Dr. Emily King]

I will find out. But. And so every week you get vegetables growing in the farm.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Yeah.

[Dr. Emily King]

And then they donate to the food bank. So like this week I got this freaking honking tomato, which is awesome. And jalapenos and other peppers and chard, which I've never made, but I'm gonna try and make. It's made me tried like different things.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Okay.

[Dr. Emily King]

Which is kind of cool.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Okay.

[Courtney Allen]

Make some salsa.

[Dr. Emily King]

Yeah, I really want to make some salsa.

[Courtney Allen]

My mother in law made her homemade salsa is so good.

[Dr. Emily King]

Yeah, I love salsa.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Fre tomato with salt and pepper.

[Dr. Emily King]

Oh, I do blt. I could eat. I could eat probably so many tomatoes a day.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Yeah.

[Dr. Emily King]

You know, I love, I love summer tomatoes.

[Courtney Allen]

We eat a lot of blt.

[Dr. Emily King]

Do you grow tomatoes?

[Courtney Allen]

No.

[Dr. Emily King]

With your space, she don't grow nothing.

[Courtney Allen]

Look at her.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

She's like, I've got time for that. I would kill it. I can't keep plants alive. I can't keep flowers alive. You know, you can't keep alive duck.

[Dr. Emily King]

You can't keep children alive. That's.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

That's true. Yeah.

[Dr. Emily King]

Yeah.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

And animals. Some animals.

[Dr. Emily King]

A select few.

[Richie King]

Yeah.

[Courtney Allen]

Yeah.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Don't bring your bunny to me. Oh, yeah. Anyway, I've seen. Speaking of the parasite, I have been seeing some hilarious, like, memes on social media about the parasite.

[Dr. Emily King]

Yes.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

And people like saying, oh, you can lose 10 pounds and going to their fridge and coming out with one piece of lettuce. Or people drinking wine and saying, this is how I'm gonna get my fruits for from now on.

[Dr. Emily King]

Yep.

[Courtney Allen]

Yeah. We were talking about the last episode we just recorded. It's like, how is it, how do they just label all produce? Like we're just supposed to eat none of it. And how do, like how do we know when it's gone?

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Didn't we. Don't we have an article coming up on it? Are we talking about it finally?

[Dr. Emily King]

Probably not on today's episode.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Oh, well, shoot. We should have talked about it because I'm pretty sure. Can't we just deworm ourselves with ivermectin?

[Dr. Emily King]

Let's just pull it up. You sent that article in our group chat.

[Courtney Allen]

Yeah.

[Dr. Emily King]

You sent that one article in our group chat.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Well, I must be on top.

[Dr. Emily King]

Let's just talk about it. Let's talk about it. We're on to. Well, you know, you need to do your pits and peaks first.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Oh, okay. Okay, real quick. My pit is that we have a really sad euthanasia coming up tomorrow morning and it's Just gonna suck that. I mean, the dog. We'll talk about the case, but it was basically a young dog with not good news.

[Courtney Allen]

Yeah.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

And the owners are the sweetest. The sweetest people, I'm sorry. Actually value you as a veterinarian and caring for them anyway, so it'll be really sad. My peak is that my daughter is hilarious. I love playing with her. She says the most ridiculous things. And my favorite thing today was she was in Hewitt's room pretending she had a party. And she was like, come on, mom, the party. And I'd be like, helen, we have to get ready to get your shoes. No, no, no, no. She put her hand up. No, no, no, no, no. I'm like, okay. She goes, you can sit on the floor or sit in the chair. So I sat on the chair and she was standing. And she would say the most random things. I've got boxes everywhere. We can't get boxes right now. We're too busy. Do you see my horses in the stall? And then she opens up the drawer, like, okay. And I would start to say, helen, we really need to go to school now. She'd be like, no, no, no, the party's not over. I'm like, okay, well, the party, we can come back to the party. And it was like, back and forth with my 3 year old. And I'm like, why don't you, you know, play a game? And she'd be like, my game, my game. And then I'd pretend and I'd be like, oh, it's Pikachu. And she's. That's not my game. And I'm like, ugh, okay, what is your game? So anyways, long story short, it ended with. I'm like, helen, we really need to go to school. It's time. And she just goes, sorry, everybody. And just sadly walks out of the party.

[Courtney Allen]

She's leaving all of her friends.

[Dr. Emily King]

Oh, my God, that's amazing.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

She left all of her imaginary friends and just said they're. The party was over. I'm like, oh, my God, you felt

[Dr. Emily King]

real good, didn't you?

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

It was the cutest, funniest, saddest thing I've experienced. Oh, my God, experience. But like, today it was so cute. So innocent.

[Courtney Allen]

Their imagination is so.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

She just will be like, look, and there be nothing. What is it? And she's like, it's a key. Like, to what? Then she just literally starts gibbering.

[Courtney Allen]

I don't know.

[Dr. Emily King]

Oh, my God, I love it. That's amazing.

[Courtney Allen]

Okay, so like, she said, this is a follow up From a listener inquiry from last week. So it says, advice for Sarah from this week's episode, which would be last week. Yes, last week, one of the veterinarians I work with went to vet school in her 40s. When her kids were 11 and 12, she moved four hours away from home. And while it was very difficult, she and her family made it work. Don't let age hold you back from your dreams, but don't be afraid to prioritize other parts of your life first. Between now and earning your dvm, there are other ways you could increase veterinary availability in your area. I'm not sure what New York laws are, but maybe you could hire a veterinarian to be your future partner and open a clinic and manage it between now and when you go to start at school. From Anonymous.

[Dr. Emily King]

Great ideas.

[Courtney Allen]

That's crazy. She moved four hours away from her family. That's awesome. Chase your dreams. Go get them.

[Dr. Emily King]

Oh, gosh, I like that. Somebody's writing in to help somebody.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

I know.

[Dr. Emily King]

That's awesome.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

That's the first time we love this, right?

[Dr. Emily King]

Community.

[Richie King]

I know.

[Courtney Allen]

It's Go Vet Med.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Go Vet Med.

[Dr. Emily King]

All right, so, news, Bring it on.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Well, in this dark hole, I can't open it up because my signal's not working.

[Courtney Allen]

Is it an article you sent?

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Yeah, in our group chat. But you have to go past the tractors. The one we're going to talk about, it's up ahead of it.

[Courtney Allen]

The first one.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

The one with raspberries on the.

[Dr. Emily King]

The picture.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Picture.

[Dr. Emily King]

Can you find it? Can you find it?

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Okay.

[Courtney Allen]

It's on Instagram.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Yeah.

[Courtney Allen]

Hello. It pulled up Instagram and it didn't pull up the post.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Maybe the post was taken down.

[Courtney Allen]

There it is. Oh, here's what to know about the diarrhea outbreak tied to fresh produce. How big is the current outbreak in the US this is from Time also.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Okay.

[Dr. Emily King]

Oh, thank you.

[Courtney Allen]

Good job. Since May, hundreds of cases of cycle. How do you say it? Cyclosporasis.

[Dr. Emily King]

Cyclospora. Cyclospirosis, whatever.

[Courtney Allen]

An intestinal illness caused by the parasite cyclospora. Not gonna say that. Spanning 17 states have been reported, including some hospitalizations. Michigan is one of the states most affected by the outbreak. So far, it's not clear if the outbreak was caused by any specific growers or producers. And then how to know if you have the parasite. While the parasite starts off with general symptoms of diarrhea and abdominal discomfort, doctors say that it differs from cases of food poisoning or other intestinal ailments because the symptoms tend to remain in the lower gastrointestinal tract and last for a long time, even weeks. If you're infected with the parasite, you don't generally vomit, but experience watery, sometimes explosive diarrhea that may resolve and then return. How can I protect myself? Washing produce can physically remove some of it. That's why certain fruits and vegetables with lots of nooks and crannies like raspberries, blackberries, lettuce, cilantro, green onions, and basil are more likely to harbor the parasite and cause illness. Food like these are also less likely to be cooked, and heat can kill the parasite. But once again, we could make jam.

[Dr. Emily King]

We could make some jam.

[Courtney Allen]

We said, how do you just not eat fruit? And so you could cook it, but who cooks strawberries? You could make jam anyway.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Drink wine.

[Dr. Emily King]

Drink wine.

[Courtney Allen]

The best way to reduce the chances of eating contaminated foods is to cook any produce or vegetables. As for fresh produce like lettuce, opt for whole heads rather than bagged veggies. Yancy recommends. Since you can remove the outer leaves, which are more likely to be contaminated, thoroughly wash the remaining ones. Oh, my God. There's another one. Can doctors test for the parasite? Because of the latest outbreak, more doctors are aware of the parasite and are more likely to order testing for cyclospora, especially if people haven't experienced any relief from their diarrhea after several days. Doctors are also more likely to order the test for those at higher risk of complications from their infection, including very young babies and children and people with weakened immune systems. How is it treated? Most people can recover on their own, although the symptoms aren't pleasant, says Yancy. But for those who might be at higher risk of complications, antibiotics sometimes help to shorten the illness.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

I'm sorry.

[Courtney Allen]

The end.

[Dr. Emily King]

Where's our. Where's our magic?

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

I try. I can't. I. Nothing. I'm in the black hole.

[Dr. Emily King]

Okay.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Okay.

[Courtney Allen]

I can share the WI fi with you. Yeah, just click it.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Click the WI fi.

[Courtney Allen]

Yeah.

[Dr. Emily King]

Okay, one moment.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

I was gonna look up the dewormer to use.

[Courtney Allen]

Oh.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Because it's not in unless it's albon.

[Dr. Emily King]

But albon is like coccidia. Yeah, basically.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Is that what it is? It sounds like. I know I suck. Okay, click it. Let's see. One moment.

[Courtney Allen]

Break.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Intermission.

[Courtney Allen]

Your text just came through that says harrison, can I have the best.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Okay, I'm here.

[Courtney Allen]

I'm sharing. There you go.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Oh.

[Courtney Allen]

Oh. The beauty of technology.

[Richie King]

Wow.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Okay, let me do it again. Stay with us.

[Courtney Allen]

We'll be right back.

[Dr. Emily King]

Tickets are on sale now for The Veterinary Roundtable Live at WVC Nashville 2026 where we're having the ultimate western themed night out for veterinary professionals. Join us on Sunday, August 16 for a night of absolute chaos in the best way possible.

[Courtney Allen]

Hosted by Dr. Adam Christman alongside special guests Sarah Parsons and Walter Brown, this one of a kind live experience is more than just a show. It's a full on celebration of the veterinary profession and and the incredible people who make it what it is.

[Dr. Emily King]

Expect an unforgettable evening featuring a special

[Courtney Allen]

live veterinary Roundtable podcast episode, an interactive game show packed with surprises, a veterinary happy hour with themed cocktails, free food and drinks, thousands of dollars in prizes and giveaways, and more.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Dust off your boots, grab your cowboy hat and get ready for a night of connection, celebration and peace. Pure veterinary chaos.

[Dr. Emily King]

Tickets are limited and they will sell out. So grab your friends, grab your co workers and grab your tickets now through the link in the show notes. We'll see you at Canary hall for the Veterinary Roundtable live at WVC Nashville 2026.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Also the last podcast. It speeds up 2x in some places.

[Dr. Emily King]

Fascinating.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Is that you doing it, Harrison?

[Richie King]

I don't know. What do you mean it's sped up by two times?

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Maybe it was my phone, maybe it's what I clicked. But there's some segments where we're like,

[Richie King]

I'm gonna assume that it was your phone.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Oh. Oh. You know what we could look at? We should look at Capsi website. Type in Capsy and I'll look at other sources.

[Dr. Emily King]

I'm on it.

[Courtney Allen]

Oh, I love that website.

[Dr. Emily King]

Capsy.

[Courtney Allen]

I'm in Capsy Vet.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Oh, it's saying trimethoprim sulfa.

[Dr. Emily King]

Oh, well, that's what we. Yeah, we used to use that for.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Or ciprofloxis if you have a sulfa drug allergy. Interesting. But it's a parasite.

[Dr. Emily King]

Yes, but it would be like what you're talking about, like how Coccidia we don't use.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Right. We use Alban or whatever. Yeah, okay, whatever. Whatever the people say on the Internet. Okay, next one.

[Richie King]

I just watched the Emperor's New Groove and that whole sequence with Duckwall just reminded me of that one scene where he's like Cusco. Cusco's poison.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

I have not seen that movie. I'm so sorry. Okay, next article.

[Dr. Emily King]

Okay, next article.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

This is from tractor supply website or something. Tractor supply company acquires VIP pet care veterinary services. So it's a mobile pet clinic that was. Is the largest provider of mobile veterinary care in the United States. Operating community clinics in approximately 2,700 retail locations, with the most being tractor supply at 1700 across 39 states. I've seen the sign many times at the local tractor supply of vaccines available at certain times and days. So I thought it was very interesting read.

[Dr. Emily King]

Yeah, I mean, I think that it's. It says VIP pet care has been a strong partner in helping us expand access to affordable pet care.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Yes.

[Dr. Emily King]

And you know, I have no issue with these types of facilities from the perspective of, sure, it's going to be cheaper. You're not. It's not the same as coming to All Star, for example.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Right.

[Dr. Emily King]

You know, it's a completely different experience. There's this whole concept, I wrote it down. You can have two of these three things. You. Out of these three things, the three things, access, quality and affordability. You cannot have all three. So in this case you can have access and affordability.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Yep, yep.

[Dr. Emily King]

Not. What was the other one? Quality. So I mean, like, that's what.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Right.

[Dr. Emily King]

That's what you give up. You give up something.

[Courtney Allen]

Well, maybe it'll, I mean, if. But, yeah, no, I agree. But then pets will be more vaccinated. So.

[Dr. Emily King]

And like, so say you take it to count All Star.

[Courtney Allen]

I don't know.

[Dr. Emily King]

You can have access and you can have quality. It's just not going to be as affordable for everybody.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Yeah. So like, yeah, yeah, pick your poison.

[Dr. Emily King]

Yeah.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

I don't know. I don't, I don't know. I feel like it's a similar to a low cost situation. Right. People going there for the vaccines, but I would think not expecting further workup or care. Hence, therefore you, if something can get missed on your pet that could be life threatening. Mm, potentially.

[Courtney Allen]

Yep.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

I thought it was funny. I had yesterday a client decline the rabies vaccine. And so I was more specific this time about why we recommend rabies. And it was an older dog, so it's not like I'd never had the vaccine before. And I said, you know, I'm gonna give you my spiel of why not only is it legally required, but this is. And I went in through what the human has to go through if they get bit by dog. That's the status, isn't there? And I literally said, it's unlikely for your pet to get rabies. But anyway, I went through the whole thing and the owner's response was, if someone is getting close enough to my dog to get bit by the dog, they're somewhere where they shouldn't be.

[Courtney Allen]

Huh.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

So I was like, okay, well, that's one outlook.

[Dr. Emily King]

Still though, is Going to have to go through what?

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Yeah. So the person was referencing the fact that like the dog doesn't go anywhere other than like necessary places. So the home and the clinic and so if somebody is getting close enough to their dog to get bit by

[Dr. Emily King]

their dog, they're coming in their house.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Exactly. They shouldn't be there. Is the, the response. I. I didn't know.

[Dr. Emily King]

What did you say?

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

I literally said that is one way to look at it. Okay. I didn't know. Like, what am I supposed to do? They've already know.

[Dr. Emily King]

What a.

[Courtney Allen]

Nobody can pet the dog.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

No, the dog was sweet as can be. They're saying if you're coming.

[Courtney Allen]

Yeah, I don't know. Interesting.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

I. I mean, what? They already declined it to my room assistant. I went through the whole spiel of why we actually do recommend it still, and they declined it to me. Like, I don't know, what am I supposed to.

[Courtney Allen]

Yeah.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Try their hands down and vaccinate.

[Dr. Emily King]

Yeah.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

No, I mean, so is it just some people? It was interesting.

[Dr. Emily King]

What was the reason behind not vaccinating for rabies knees?

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

This scenario I do believe was cost, like truly cost conscious. The dog is in very much a quality of life. His knees were disgusting. Like so arthritic meniscal clicks, walking straight legged because he's so painful. But nothing else is wrong with him that we know of. Right. So they're just, they did the exam to get more meds for him. The carprofen.

[Dr. Emily King]

I get that.

[Courtney Allen]

Okay.

[Dr. Emily King]

Oh, goodness.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Maybe not the best client to practice my Brady's response on. Because that was the first time I was really like, they have to get it here and here and here and whatever.

[Dr. Emily King]

Didn't care.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Nope, didn't work.

[Courtney Allen]

Well, at least you tried it.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Yeah, I thought keep trying it. Yeah.

[Dr. Emily King]

Yeah. And I wanted you to do it again. Try it again.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Oh, yeah.

[Dr. Emily King]

In the future.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

I. I need more details. I need to say they have to get rabies immunoglobulins into the site and how many more in the muscle? Three, four, five, maybe five. A lot.

[Dr. Emily King]

A lot too many.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Okay, okay, Take it away.

[Dr. Emily King]

Next article is from AVMA News and was written in July on July 6, 2026. And this is about Midwestern canceling plans for veterinary college in Illinois. So Midwestern University will not be moving forward with its proposal for a Chicago College of Veterinary Medicine. The private nonprofit graduate and postgraduate university which specializes in healthcare education, announced in 2024 that it was thinking about doing this, but now has said no.

[Courtney Allen]

Sad.

[Dr. Emily King]

Yep.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

They carefully assessed the resources, infrastructure Clinical capacity and long term investment necessary to successfully support and sustain a second. A second four year doctor veterinary medicine pro program. After consideration, they concluded the greatest and most lasting impact comes from concentrating its efforts on existing programs in colleges rather than launching a new college.

[Courtney Allen]

Okay, well, at least they thought about it and didn't just pull the trigger because they got excited and then it didn't go well.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

And yeah, let's hope they put those resources where they say they will.

[Dr. Emily King]

Yes. Right.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Onward and upward.

[Dr. Emily King]

Okay, let's see here.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Okay, we are just gonna go through the teamwork King and I had the other day. So why don't you start off because it's your case from the start.

[Dr. Emily King]

Okay, well, I was working at the clinic the other day and I saw

[Courtney Allen]

a

[Dr. Emily King]

11 year old, I think he was 11. 11 year old male neutered cat that was about 12 pounds. He was, he came in because the owner had been him go in and out of the litter box quite frequently. He was starting to act like he wanted to vomit and just wasn't acting like himself. And so she brought him in and on physical exam, he was blocked. I mean, you just, you just started to go in his abdomen and he's freaking out. And then you could feel his bladder was very, very tense, very full. He was depressed in the exam room. He, his color was fine, his heart rate was up, he was breathing okay. And so we said, we have black cat.

[Courtney Allen]

Everybody go.

[Dr. Emily King]

Everybody move, move, move, move. And so I gave some directives to the staff to, hey, listen, we're gonna get some blood on him and then let's decompress his bladder because I don't know, I couldn't tell based on the owner's history how long this had been going on. So I wanted to buy us a little bit of time. And so I was like, let's just decompress his bladder and do a cysto and get. Relieve some of the pressure so we can make him feel better quickly. And so then, and then I left and went to the next room because I was running around my hair on fire.

[Courtney Allen]

You left him with your tech?

[Dr. Emily King]

I left them with the tech and I took off.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Who's usually in surgery?

[Dr. Emily King]

Yes, who's usually in surgery. That's exactly right.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Yes.

[Dr. Emily King]

Yes. That's what, that's what my problem is. I just word vomit. I come out of a room and

[Courtney Allen]

I'm like, whoever she sees first, she gives treatments too.

[Dr. Emily King]

And so I said all of that and then I went about my business and I was coming back to the computer over by Faust island, where ultrasound is.

[Courtney Allen]

And.

[Dr. Emily King]

And then I'm like, oh, wow, there's a lot going on in there. I opened the door and Douglas like, can you give. Can we give your dog your cat some drugs? And I was like, oh, yeah, give him some drugs. Give me some buprenor. Because they're trying to do this decompressive sisto. And I just didn't think, like, in the moment, like he did. I mean, he looked uncomfortable, but he wasn't, like, you know, bad.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

What Dr. King did not see was the struggle of getting the cat in position. And this deck being somewhat wary to do this decompressive system because she doesn't usually do them. Right, right. There are risks with sisters in general, and it was just kind of a show.

[Courtney Allen]

She also doesn't do well with cats.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Meanwhile.

[Dr. Emily King]

Oh, true. We just, like, set her up for, like.

[Courtney Allen]

Yeah, that's true.

[Dr. Emily King]

That's true.

[Courtney Allen]

If you need help with a cat, you don't call her.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

I'll be very honest. I did not walk in there being like, oh, what do you guys need? I was there just hovering so I could steal the ultrasound. So I'm more like, what do you guys need to do to get this done? I need an ultrasound. And then they were. It was like. She was like, you do the system. I'm like, that's not my patient. I'm not doing any system. I don't know what's happening here. And so then that's where I was like, we need drugs.

[Dr. Emily King]

Drugs. So then I was like, all right, give them, like, 0.15 Buprenax IM. So they did that. And that cat was liked buprenax. He seemed to be very sensitive to buprenorph.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Next.

[Dr. Emily King]

And so then that. Good call on Duckwall's part. And we gave him that, and he felt really a lot better. And we ran the blood. He had mild azotemia, no hyperkalemia. His CBC was normal. And so we're like, all right, well, this is at 4:00', clock, maybe 3:40, something like that. Later in the afternoon.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Yeah.

[Dr. Emily King]

And so we're like, well, I stuck the ultrasound probe back on his bladder because I'm like, I need to see if he's got stones, because I don't want to just, like, put a catheter in and then take it out in a couple days. And then he reblocks. And so we stuck the ultrasound probe back on his bladder, and he did. He had stones. And so our rule of thumb is we're going to go straight to Surgery in those cases. Well, it's 4 o' clock in the afternoon. I don't really want to take him to surgery at 4 o' clock in the afternoon. He doesn't feel the best anyway. Let's just unblock him and then take him to surgery the next morning was the plan. So I'm like, all right, let's put a slippery salmon. Let's hook him up to a closed system, and we'll do all that, and I'll get with duck ball. We'll do a coccygeal block. And so. And she's the guru now because she's the only one who's been able to really do them correctly.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

I just told you how to do it. You did it.

[Dr. Emily King]

I know, but, like, we had to go. We had. I wanted to use her because she's the only one who's really been successful at doing them. So I was like, you got to watch me do this and see if I, you know, like, feel the spot. So when you lift up the tail and there's a divot there, and that's where you do the block. And so. But sometimes your fingers lie to you, and they say there's a divot here.

[Courtney Allen]

Right. Instead of things that aren't there.

[Dr. Emily King]

And so we watched a video, and then we got our stuff together, and then we went back there, and people in surgery are like, aren't you gonna anesthetize them? And I'm like, no. Like, what's the point of that? Anesthetizing him to do the coccygeal block.

[Courtney Allen]

Don't do the block.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

But then I also was like, are you just gonna have bupi on board? Because in my experience, that's not always enough. And so she was like. King was like, we'll just give him some decks. I was like, okay, there you go. Let's do a little decks. I did not. I was not going to do it. Just bupey if I was doing it. And then. But then we started talking about, well, don't we need an IV catheter? Anyway, he's going to be on fluids, and she's like, all right, we could propy if we have to. Right? Long story short, he didn't need any of it. He just felt great with the bupy. And then the block worked.

[Dr. Emily King]

It was beautiful.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

It was beautiful. He didn't feel anything.

[Dr. Emily King]

I made believers out of all those non believers. And surgery.

[Courtney Allen]

I don't know where I was during.

[Dr. Emily King]

They were like. They're like, you're not gonna. I was like, Guys, the whole point of not using, like. Like, if we're gonna anesthetize them, I just need to do the cystotomy.

[Richie King]

Yeah.

[Dr. Emily King]

Like, why am I gonna anesthetize them? To wake him up to anesthetize them. Like, that makes no sense. So that's why we're doing the coccygeal block, so that we don't have to do that. I'm like, it's going to work. Just settle it down. And then it worked. And we were, like, pinching him. We're like, oh, okay, that works. And then we slid the slippery salmon there. Didn't care. I sutured it. You know, you have to shoot. Suture it right to kind of, like, the scrotum, like, area. Sutured it. Didn't care. Unblocked him.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Wonderful.

[Dr. Emily King]

He's just laying there.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Surgery the next day. Yep, Yep.

[Dr. Emily King]

Surgery next day, Removes the stones out, went home. He's peeing like a racehorse at home. It's all good.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

I love it.

[Courtney Allen]

Moral of the story. You need to come work in the clinic more.

[Dr. Emily King]

Oh, I don't know about that, but I would say the moral of the story is that don't be afraid of the coccygel block. Oh, yeah, no, like, you know, like, use it.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Yeah, it's.

[Dr. Emily King]

It was fantastic. It numbed him, like, everywhere he needed to be numb.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Yeah. And a lot of you, your colleagues, friends.

[Dr. Emily King]

And that's where, for two brains.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Two brains equals one.

[Dr. Emily King]

When we were finished, she was like, oh, it's almost like. What did you say? Exactly?

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

We equal one veterinarian. I gave. I gave you drugs. You prevented other drugs. So between the two of us, we were one veterinarian, so.

[Dr. Emily King]

And that is one of the best parts of. Of veterinary medicine. I feel like, at our clinic is that we get to participate together in a lot of things. I mean, I think all of us find joy in doing things together.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Yes.

[Dr. Emily King]

Right. I mean, I think that's fun. I mean, we don't always have the time for it, but when we do, it's fun to do together.

[Courtney Allen]

It's my favorite thing when there's, like, three doctors or four doctors and, like, X ray or something, and they're all just, like, spitting out things. It's just fun to listen to it.

[Dr. Emily King]

Yeah.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

I love when we get jazzed about cases. We're like, did you hear this?

[Dr. Emily King]

Yeah.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

I got this histopath report back, and we're like.

[Richie King]

It was this.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

They're like, whoa.

[Dr. Emily King]

Yeah. Yeah, it's fun. It's one of My favorite things. So could I do it by myself? And we rechecked his B1K. The next day. Normal we say, there we go.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

He legit saved his life.

[Dr. Emily King]

Check that box.

[Courtney Allen]

Nice.

[Dr. Emily King]

Okay.

[Courtney Allen]

Okay. On to listener inquiries. Before we get into that, not only can you text or email us your listener inquiries, but you can now send us a voicemail through the same link. So if you click the link at the top of the show notes, you can send either a text or a voicemail. If you send a voicemail, we will play it live on the podcast

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

just like last time. Okay, number one, let me zoom in here. Eyes are starting to go out here.

[Courtney Allen]

Just kidding. You're so old.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Hey, my name is Leila and I'm currently a vet tech student and in my second year of the program, I recently have converted to Catholicism and wanted to ask Dr. King about how she views animals and them not having souls and if that is outdated or still part of the faith she practices and how she views her job, euthanasia, etc with a religious perspective. I love Yalls podcasts and listen to it every morning on my hour drive to class. Thanks for being amazing. Anonymous. Oh, I love this.

[Dr. Emily King]

This is a good question.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Oh, okay.

[Dr. Emily King]

So I pulled up my. My thing because I was like. I don't know if I can say this accurately enough. So I didn't want to, like, misspeak.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Sure, that's fair.

[Dr. Emily King]

All right. So do you want me just to read what I believe? Yeah, like. Yeah.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

I mean, that's what they're asking you.

[Dr. Emily King]

Okay.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

All right.

[Dr. Emily King]

All right. All right. Let's see here in. So this is what I. And I still believe this. I don't think it's outdated. I don't think that these types of concepts, like, really can become outdated. That's just my opinion.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Sure.

[Dr. Emily King]

All right. In Catholic teaching, the human body possesses a unique dignity because humans are created in the image of God and have an immortal, rational soul. Influenced by the theology of Thomas Aquinas, the Church teaches that the human soul survives death and will one day be reunited with the body and resurrection. Because of this belief, the body is treated with great reverence even after death, while. And this is in regards to cremation. So they were. I was writing this in regards to cremation. Animals, however, are understood differently in Catholic theology. Following Thomas Aquinas's explanation of souls, animals possess what is called a sensitive soul, which allows them to live, move and perceive their surroundings. But it is not immortal in the same way as the human rational soul. When an animal dies Its soul does not continue to exist independently of the body. Because of this, the remains of animals don't carry the same theological significance as like people. So that's my answer. What do you think? You were raised Catholic.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Do you have an opinion? I was raised Catholic and was Catholic for most of my life. I'm still Christian. Like I'm a still God fearing. Like, faith is my most important thing. So I always. Yes. I still, I. I still, I struggle with this question now, to be honest with you. And I think maybe it's because I have changed a lot in my faith, but I've grown so much deeper in it. Sure. That I think. I don't look at it as a black and white. I look at it as God created. Everything God has created is good.

[Courtney Allen]

Sure.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

And that includes his creatures that he created to be put on earth for us. So I also.

[Dr. Emily King]

We're supposed to be good stewards to them.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Exactly. We're supposed to be good stewards to them. I think that what they give us back, that love, that pure love is good as well. I also think my idea of heaven has changed as I've grown deeper in my faith. That I don't know if I can say that's black and white. Either of it's just people there. I think all of God's creation will be with us in some way or fashion. I don't think it's like this is me. I've grown up thinking I was just in the clouds and we're all just floating around in the clouds.

[Courtney Allen]

Right.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

But I think there's an element of life on with like an earth. I don't know how.

[Dr. Emily King]

It's hard to describe. I know. Yeah.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Like an earth sacredness and souls around us. Instead of just, whoop, we're going up. I don't know. It's hard to explain. I guess I. If my answer is do they truly have souls like humans? My answer is no.

[Dr. Emily King]

Yep. Okay. Courtney, do you have anything to add?

[Courtney Allen]

Nope.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Okay.

[Courtney Allen]

I agree.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

It's a tough question.

[Dr. Emily King]

We might have to see if I get one of the priests on the podcast.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

We will never. I mean, here's the other thing. We're not going to know. Nobody's going to know until we are in heaven.

[Dr. Emily King]

Right.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Yeah.

[Courtney Allen]

We see Jesus.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

We got a lot of questions.

[Dr. Emily King]

We could ask so many questions to the priest.

[Courtney Allen]

Okay. To the priest.

[Dr. Emily King]

I mean, we could. All right.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Okay. Number two, who wants to do it?

[Courtney Allen]

Okay. Hey, guys. Addison Ducote here. I am a pre vet student and curious if you could talk about something. I'M seeing lots of on social media pet food. I'm seeing lots of animal nutritionists who took two to three hour training courses for a piece of paperwork talking about safe and not safe foods. While I personally have done research and understand I'd love to hear yalls opinions on vet prescribed recommended foods like Science Diet, Purina Pro Plan etc and why they are sold in clinics nationally recommended by most vets curious behind some of the science or ingredients y' all look for or recommend for patients and if these animal nutritionists with little certification to know DVM are really helpful or harmful. Thanks so much for this podcast and give in giving me such a great resource to continue my learning from Addison.

[Dr. Emily King]

Okay, well I would say most of the food companies that we recommend have DVMs that have then that are board certified nutritionists.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Yes.

[Dr. Emily King]

Right.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

I think that's key. If you really want a reliable food source then I think you have to look for those credentials because otherwise anybody can say they can do whatever, they can recommend anything. And I know a lot of these the question was like what our opinion on vet prescribed recommended foods like Science Diet, Purina Pro Plan, et cetera. For me a lot of these companies have the research and the staffing and knowledge to back up their products where a lot of companies do not. So that's part of it. Studies done on pets themselves and these companies are actually now presenting fresh food options because it's just not a topic or an option that's going away in our pet life industry. So it was phrased to me that it's they're getting made with the proper nutrition, the balance under the eyes and hands of people who have that certification.

[Dr. Emily King]

So you know, we had a case the other day that I was telling you about where the owner came in and it's a dog is having chronic intermittent diarrhea, you know, and the owner was like, you know we feed this one food and it doesn't have any. It's. It's a prescription diet. Doesn't. I just am of the belief that it doesn't have any nutritional value. And so I add rough greens too. And I literally, I don't know if I like if he saw my face or what. Like no, he was like, you know, it's baked. All the nutrition is just baked out of. There's no nutrition in this stuff. And I was like Migos. So I add rough greens to it. And I was like oh my God. Like I don't know if I went like that or like smiled or laughed, but I had to come back around to it, because now I'm old and I don't really care, you know, if somebody gets upset with me or whatever. And I was like, you know, I just want to challenge you for just a second on your opinion that the dog food has no nutritional value. I was like, that's just not the case. I was like, and don't add rough greens. What are you doing?

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

So you're like. Has the parasites like.

[Dr. Emily King]

Like, you know, like, you know, it's so funny that. Well, no, it's that food. It's that supplement called Rough Greens. Have you heard about it?

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Oh, no, I thought you.

[Dr. Emily King]

No, it's a supplement called Rough Greens.

[Courtney Allen]

Oh. And.

[Dr. Emily King]

And so he's saying that this food company is not doing anything good by the pets by making a food product, but yet is going to use another product made by a company that makes a food product. And.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

What are you talking about?

[Dr. Emily King]

You're, like, contradicting yourself.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Yeah. It doesn't make any sense.

[Dr. Emily King]

It doesn't make any sense. I was like, these are nutritionally balanced. It's actually AFCO tested, which shows that the pet not only survived but thrived.

[Courtney Allen]

Yeah.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Yeah.

[Dr. Emily King]

And then he was just like, I

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

think the problem is there are.

[Dr. Emily King]

I was like, I want to tell you, I'm just feeding you the truth, brother.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

There's much so. Just so many foods out there, too.

[Courtney Allen]

Saying that there's too many animals, there's too many dog foods. It's getting a little ridiculous.

[Dr. Emily King]

Yeah.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Like, there's too many, and there needs to be some, like.

[Courtney Allen]

And they're all making fun claims.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Wash out the commercials. The great flood, if you will, of all the food. And then we just save the ones we like on the boat.

[Courtney Allen]

Literally, like a fresh start. And have, like, four brands.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Yeah, there's a lot. I. I mean, look, at the end of the day, people are gonna do what they want to do, so the best we can do is give them our spiels.

[Dr. Emily King]

Give them our spiels.

[Courtney Allen]

Say, don't believe everything you see on social media, because there are a lot of new food companies, and they do make a lot of claims, and they make their stuff look really good. But just do your research.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Yeah.

[Courtney Allen]

And make sure they're able to back their stuff.

[Dr. Emily King]

Yep.

[Courtney Allen]

If they don't have the proper research.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Trust your vet, then just trust your vet. There's that, too. But we get. Will never happen. We get zero kickback, by the way, on any of these.

[Dr. Emily King]

Oh, yeah. No kickbacks.

[Dr. Ashton Duckwall]

Yeah. Anyway, okay. Thank you so much for tuning into another episode of the Veterinary Roundtable. Remember, send in those questions and leave us a review. If you enjoyed this episode or previous one, we'll see you next week for another episode of the Veterinary Round.