← The Victor Davis Hanson Show
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- [00:03]
Victor Davis Hansen
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- [01:38]
Sammy Wink
Hello and welcome to the Victor Davis Hansen Show. This is our Saturday edition where we do something different usually in the middle segment and this week Victor's going to be looking at the one of the seven wonders of the ancient world, the mausoleum at Halicarnassus. And so we'll do that in the middle segment but we've got more news from the week. So we're going to be looking at the speaker, Mike Johnson's potentially he'll be re elected to his position and then Liz Cheney gets a President's Citizens Medal. So stay with us and we'll be right back.
- [02:19]
Victor Davis Hansen
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- [02:56]
Sammy Wink
All right, welcome back to the Victor Davis Hansen Show. Victor's the Martin and Ellie Anderson Senior Fellow in military history and Classics at the Hoover Institution and the Wayne and Marcia Buskey Distinguished Fellow in History at Hillsdale College. So we welcome everybody to the Victor Davis Hansen Show. Come join us at his website. It's VictorHansen.com and it is called the Blade of Perseus. And we'd love to have you all there. Well, Victor, we've got new information about New Orleans first and then we'll look at Mike Johnson and Liz Cheney. I thought you wanted to say something on that.
- [03:32]
Victor Davis Hansen
I think everybody was really confused when the New Year's Eve terrorist operation that I guess has now killed 15 or 16 people. Mr. Jabbar, who was a military veteran and but had been self radicalized according to his family, in radical Islam. But we've discussed earlier that the assistant special agent apparently that was in charge of the initial responses, I think her name was Alethea Duncan. The first thing out of the gate was that she assured us that it was not a terrorist organization. That reflected, I think, an indoctrination. That's something that Kash Patel will have to address at the FBI because you, if you want to withhold, you want to withhold information, you want to withhold conclusions that you are not supported by data, and there was no data for that. But it tells you that her first impulse was to say, we don't want to accuse anybody of terrorism. That was more important than really getting. She should have just said, we don't know whether it's terrorism. We're working on it. We'll have an announcement. And then she said, it's an ied, you know, problem. That's just a methodology. That's stupid. You know, the methodology of killing is not the pathway to find out necessarily who did it or what type of causation there was. And then you had the mayor, Latoya Cantrell, and she came out and what the FBI said they were thinking. There were more than one person. She said, he said, she said they were completely at odds. She was famous, remember, for credit, being accused of credit card fraud and taking bribes. I remember. And then we had this Ann Kirkpatrick, the chief of police, and she was confused about the barriers should have been up to block the, the cars coming in. And she gave a convoluted explanation why they weren't there. She was fired, remember, from the Oakland Police Police Department a few years ago. She's boun. She's kind of a DEI consultant for the FBI. So you get the impression from those three people, Anne Kirkpatrick and Aletha Duncan and Latoya Cantrell, that There's nobody in charge really until they flew in the FBI. I think somebody from their Washington office that kind of cleaned up the mess. But there's a larger theme here, and that is if you look at the May, June, late May, June, July, August, September, May of 2020, when, as I said earlier, $2 billion in property was destroyed, there were 35 to 40 people killed, depending on how you count the particular violently caused deaths. There was, I think 14,000 people arrested. Unlike the January six people, they were mostly let go by Soros district attorneys in major cities. Then we go to the Mangione case where this cold blooded assassin in mafioso style lurks outside a building, executes a United health executive, and then gets 40% of the youth on major campuses applauding that cold blooded murder. And I could go back to the Steven Scalise attacks, but and then the European Islamic attacks. And we saw right after the New Orleans attacks, massive demonstrations in New York by pro Palestinian, radical Palestinian. Add it all up and there's this problem with the left that they keep saying, as Joe Biden did to Howard at Howard University on other occasions, it is white supremacy is a great. It isn't if you just look up, people have looked up the number of dead the last 20 years. And the number of dead are not due to white supremacists. It's Middle Eastern terrorism. But my point is this, is that there's something in the left that believes that these violent acts, if they're not justified, they're at least directed at the right people. And we saw this contextualization about Donald Trump's two failed assassin of somebody who I've talked to on the phone at least once or twice, John McWhorth or he said in the New York Times, a columnist, and not in his column, but in a podcast with Glenn Lurie, that he thought it might have been preferable for Donald Trump to be killed. And then when you look at the social media, there were people, oh, he missed, you know, that type of attitude. So the left has a problem with violence and they believe that in all of these cases they have the, the violent act, whether it's Trump or a health care person or even innocent, there is some justification for it, whether the oppression of Muslims or the oppression of the poor by health care or the oppression that Donald Trump supposedly is responsible for. And they can't come to terms with it, that it's overwhelmingly a left wing problem and they just don't want they contextualize it. Violence is okay because there, once you Start with the premise that you're for the people. Diversity, equity, inclusion, or the Marxist idea of a proletariat that's noble, a noble peasantry that's always in the Marxist binary. Oppressors, oppressed, victimizers, victimized. Then you can justify anything. Yeah, anything. And that gets back to go into a store in California, until recently, steal up to $950 and you're not, you not going to be arrested. If you're arrested, you're not going to be booked. If you were booked, you were not going to be indicted. And if you were indicted, you were not going to and convicted, you were not going to jail if it was less than $950. And the exegesis or the basis behind that reasoning is something that they call critical legal theory, that laws are just simply constructs of wealthy white people who have power and money. And so we get back to that reductionist point. I think I made an earlier podcast that the only reason they believe it's against the law to steal sneakers is because wealthy white people who made the law don't like, you know, don't have to have sneakers. Sneakers, anything that they don't need, they make a log at critical legal theory. And so they believe that people, it's a cry of the heart, they go into a store and they think, wow, I, I need aspirin, I need diapers, I gotta steal it. Because the capitalist system has made these unaffordable to me and the government won't give me. And then when you actually look at it, they're going in and looting in gang style processes, swarming sneaker stores, computer stores, high end fashion stores, jewelry stores. But that's the problem, that they can't just come out and say, we condemned unequivocally the use of violence for political means. And we can say, I wish they could. I wish the university president would have gotten up in 2024 and said, if you come to this campus and you deface the library, if you chase students into the library, if you deface the sidewalks, you are destroying property and that's against the law and you will be held accountant. They always say that the worst thing about the left recently is these bragadocio threats. And it goes right to the top. Joe Biden, he always, I mean, he did this incoherent reaction to New Orleans. This is where I've been standing for it. Remember he said about what would you do? Donald Putin came in at first he said, depends on this major minor invasion into Ukraine. And then he always Says don't. What would you think about Iran hitting Israel? Don't. What would you think about Israel? Reply don't. And it's get it gets back to the whole corn pop saga Creations and fictions are he's slamming the head of somebody who insulted his sister at a luncheon desk. That's the word of the Biden. You know this all this tough talk. But they he never did anything. He never did anything. So it was carry a twig and talk loudly.
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Sammy Wink
Yeah. And it's hard for the party of peace to reconcile that with their so I think that's where they lost all of those Democrats that were one time.
- [12:11]
Victor Davis Hansen
You know what I did I was curious about this because today's woke DEI party used to be Obama's progressive party and used to be Bill Clinton's liberal party Liberal Democrats and these were far to the left of the the Carter Clinton Democrats were far to the left of the old JFK Harry Truman party. So it's gone left But I went back and looked at the 1996 re election effort of Bill Clinton and the official statement in the Democratic party convention platform that summer. You would not believe it. It is surreal. It says we Bill Clinton was a crime fighter. He brought the he made people punish and just youthful offenders shall be treated harshly just because your youth as far as the border goes he's he closed it. There is no such thing as an exemption for illegal immigration. It drives down wages. And then he got into physical sobriety. Physical sobriety. We balanced the budget and we are going to continue he hadn't quite yet we are going to continue to exercise physical fiscal restraint. Not physical physical physical restraint. I couldn't believe it. And then when he talked about environmentalism it wasn't banning fossil fuels or ev it was we have to protect God's earth. He used the word God with a capital Gee. That party and Nancy Pelosi gave a speech about why it's unfair to suggest that Democrats were for open borders that they said it hurts wages of our union brothers. That party today would be called nativist, protectionist, racist, homophobic, transphobic by the new Democratic party. So if you want to know why they lost go back and watch that descent into Jacobinism. This is a Jacobin French revolutionary party changing names, toppling statues, creating new genders, new foundational dates of America. This is something that the Clintons and JFK or Harry Truman would have never imagined.
- [14:26]
Sammy Wink
Yeah and then there's a whole host of people that used to be Democrats that wanted law and order and America first diplomacy. And that's what Donald Trump was calling for. I think that's a big thing that.
- [14:39]
Victor Davis Hansen
Turned people don't talk about that. But if you look at 2016, when he won, I think it was 67 or 60. I'm doing this by memory. I hadn't prepared for this 67 or 68 million voters. And then he got 11 million more when he lost in 2020. And it went up to like 70 or maybe it was 72 or 73 million and then it went up to 77 million. So win or lose, it was like this. And of course, lose is this aberration that historians are going to ponder how in the world 2020 had so many million more votes when four years later a greater population, the actual people who participated went down. No one could quite with the same, at least for part of the campaign, the same two candidates. So anyway, my point is that the Democratic Party alienated people and they had. And the people who were alienated ended up voting for Donald Trump. I got chastised in a letter somebody wrote me. I get a lot of emails. I can't keep track of them, but I say that because I'd like to reply to all of them. But this person said, you said on your podcast that the middle class and I live in a zip code where the majority per capita income were business. And we went 62% Trump. I didn't mean that as an exclusionary term. I meant that is if you were lower or middle class, you. And that's the largest demographic in the United States, that they went overwhelmingly for Donald Trump. The very wealthy zip codes did not. But in that continuum, small business owners could be considered part of the middle class. And they, they did as well. And some wealthy people did as well. There's a lot of corporate CEOs that voted for them for reasons of taxes and deregulation. But he won the election because he captured the old, not just the old Buchanan voters and the old Ross Perot voters and the old working class lunch bucket people who had sat out and did not want to show up for John McCain and Mitt Romney. But he got Hispanics, I think 16, 17% of African Americans. I think that's kind of low. Those are estimates. And then he got somewhere around 40, 43 to 48% of Hispanics, depending on who was exit polling.
- [17:14]
Sammy Wink
Yeah.
- [17:14]
Victor Davis Hansen
And that was the difference.
- [17:16]
Sammy Wink
Yeah. Amazing. Well, you got away from my agenda, Victor, but that's okay. That was an interesting riff. What about your views on Mike Johnson as speaker and the, the chances for that, it seems like there's one Republican, Thomas Macy, who says he won't vote for him. So what, what are your ideas or what do you think?
- [17:35]
Victor Davis Hansen
What would Thomas Massie do if he was speaker when he has a two vote majority and there are people in the Republican Party? It's more Trumpian than it ever has been in this Congressional representation Senate and House. But what would he do as speaker when he has people from states like Maryland or California or, or, and these are, these are purple districts or Colorado where they can't be completely 99% behind Trump. They're 90%. But when you pick on particular issues that they will not vote for, you lose your majority. And there is no Trump agenda, at least not until these. I think it's three people he appointed that were congressional representatives. I don't know why. Matt Gaetz, including Matt Gaetz. They have to have special elections and they have to get Republicans elected. Then it will back to four or five. They lost three seats. I don't know how they lost the Steel, Duarte and Garcia seats in California. They were all great representatives. They were ahead. The mail and ballot, even 10 days later sunk them. No comment needed. So I don't know what, what you're supposed to be, you know, very famous Petronian statement, Sumo, we're just men, we're not gods. What do you expect him to do given the chaos of liquidating your speakers? Does he think, Mr. Massie think that Hom Jeffries, even with his Jacobin party, doesn't have a few Democrats who are in purple districts and don't really want to go along with this radical, radical left. 99.9%. Yes, he does. But I mean, our representative for years was Jim Costa. He bragged that he was part of the old Blue Dog coalition. I don't think it existed then really, and it doesn't exist now. But on questions of water and agriculture, he was middling in the middle. So my point is he voted every single time with Hikem Jeffries. So Hikem Jeffries is able to tell all of those people, not one of you, as Nancy Pelosi taught me, not one of you is going to deviate. We are going to vote en masse against every single speaker until they come to us and in disjointed mob fashion, don't have the same degree of discipline and they have defections and they're going to need our votes. And the moment we give our votes to them, that speaker is compromised because then his own party will say he couldn't Even get Republicans. He had to go over and sell out to Democrats. Is that what Mr. Massie wants? Because that's what you're going to get if you reject Mike Johnson. You're going to have a vote after vote, after vote until some person goes over to the Democrats and says, I can't corral these cats. I need five votes and I will approve your trans bill or I will approve improve your DEI initiative or your green initiative.
- [20:56]
Sammy Wink
Yeah.
- [20:57]
Victor Davis Hansen
So they need to have discipline and they don't have to be perfect to be good. They just have to be better than the alternative. So I hope he makes it. Makes it. But they need absolute discipline and solidarity and they can win. If they don't and the, the Democrats do, they'll lose.
- [21:14]
Sammy Wink
Yeah.
- [21:15]
Victor Davis Hansen
And I mean, they lost Obamacare, didn't they? They would have repealed Obamacare if John McCain hadn't defected. In the Senate, they always have these defections. The Senate, it's not so much. They have a three vote majority now, you know, 53, 47. So which is wonderful. Four, really, with the vice president.
- [21:36]
Sammy Wink
So the, that's why Donald Trump shouldn't have any trouble getting his appointments through. Not too much trouble in the Senate.
- [21:42]
Victor Davis Hansen
It would be, it'll be much easier to do anything. I think he has a very powerful argument in the, the appointments. All he has to do is go to any defecting Republican Susan Collins Murkowski in Alaska, you name it. And just said, if you vote against Cash Patel or Tulsi Gabbard or Pete Hegseth, we are going to run commercials in your district and we're going to say Cash was not okay, but you voted for mayorkas and you voted and then just put the whole. Pete Buttigieg is her favorite, not crime fighter Cash Lloyd Austin is her ideal. But not. And that's going to be devastating because they have votes. There's six or seven of them that have talked about not voting for the Republican nominees of Trump's, but there are a lot of them are on record that they okayed all of, almost all of the appointments that Joe Biden nominated. And yeah, so I think he can stop that. And Donald Trump, you know, I mean, he, there's always ways to corral people. I'm sure he's calling apostate representatives right now and saying, you know, I understand that you have to be reelected and you're in a purple district or you're in a crazy, you know, district that it's unpredictable or you're in a hard right district. But I have ways to influence You.
- [23:21]
Sammy Wink
Well, Victor, we are at a break and we're going to hear a few messages and then we'll come back and talk a little bit about the mausoleum at Halicarnesis. Stay with us. Welcome back to the Victor Davis Hansen Show. You can find Victor at his X account. His handle is Dhanson. And you can find him at Facebook on Hansen's Morning Cup. So please come join us there. So, Victor, I haven't heard a whole lot. I know that it doesn't exist anymore once again. So. But we do know what it looked like. And so I'm interested in this mausoleum at Halicarnassus.
- [24:06]
Victor Davis Hansen
Yeah, we've been talking in our history section the last two times about the not the modern Seven Wonders of the World or the natural Seven Wonders of the World, but the ancient as compiled in the Hellenistic period. And it's very easy to remember. As I said before, the seven. There's two in Greece. We've discussed the Colossus of Rhodes on the island of Rhodes and the statue of Olympian Zeus in the Olympian Zeus temple in Olympia, Greece. Foundations are there. There's two in Egypt. And we've just, we're going to discuss the pyramids of Giza and the site. The site, because the lighthouse at Alexandria is, you can go out and look down and see the foundations. And there's two in Egypt and then there's two in Turkey. And today we're going to talk about the mausoleum in honor of Mausolus of Caria and the temple of Ephesus, a temple to Artemis at Ephesus up the coast. We'll talk about that next time. And then there's one final the seventh that's not in modern Greece, Egypt or Turkey, and it's in Iraq. And I, I saw that. And that was Saddam. Saddam Hussein attempted to rebuild the Hanging Gardens of Babylon. You can go there and see these little bricks that he put his own initial on to rebuild it falsely. I mean, it was poorly done. But I went out to the site and I flew over it, I think twice when I was embedded those two years. I've been to every one of them. That was my goal as a high school kid on a farm. I said to myself when I was 17, by the time I'm 30, I want to go to all the seven wonders of the World. And I think I fulfilled that pledge by 21. Except wow. For I did not get to the Hanging Gardens of Babylon. I thought I'd never get there. And then the Iraq war came and I went twice with combat units Once with observation on Black Hawk and once with HR McMaster and toured. But it was the first time I flew over it and we stopped and I was with a group that went there and then I flew out to Kuwait and we drove out there and some people flew me out, drove me out there. So what is the. The third wonder of the world is that down the coast of Ionia that is modern Turkey. And there's a beautiful city today, if anybody is vacationing in Turkey, it's called Bodrum B O D R U M It's kind of famous for its harbor. They have an industry there that makes wood power boats and sailboats. Beautiful Finnish mahogany oak. These, these boats are just beautiful in the harbor. And it's a vacation city. And it looks at the Dodecanese islands across. I was there once talking to a Turkish journalist. He said, see those islands? Those are. Those are Turkish because they're two or three miles away. And I said no they're not. They've been Greek since antiquity. And he said well they may be Greek now, but someday they won't. Which kind of was chilling. But you can go to the site of the mausoleum which was created around 350 BC by a pre. A pre Hellenistic a late classical tyrant dictator ruler of Carrier Carry. Is this the area of the southern part of Ione, southern coast of the Mediterranean Turkey? Not that faces Cyprus where an Italia is, but some of the southernmost of western seaside Turkey. And Mausolus built while he was still alive this new city of Halicarnassus and Colonnade Statuary harbor. And he decided to make his own tomb before he died. And he was married to Artemisia, not the famous one of the Persian war, but a later. It was this, you know, in this Asiatic, excuse me for using that word, Asiatic. This was permissible at once. It was all right to marry your sister in the way that the Ptolemies had done that in some cases, but especially the pharaohs. So anyway, he decided to make this monumental tomb for himself. And it existed from 350 for it existed almost 1800 years. All we know is that when the Crusader knights came there in 1400 they saw the ruins. But there had been a geographer, I think in 1300. So there was a hundred year period when it disappeared under the Ottomans. The British imperialists, thank God for some of the British imperialists when they came into the Middle east they were able to buy some land. They kind of dug under land they didn't buy and find out where the foundations were. And they appropriated some of the statues. And of course being Brits they brought them back to the, the London British Museum in London where you can see some of the surviving statuary. I say that because according to the ancients and plenty the elder talks about it who was a peripatetic observer and it was one of the most extravagant statues you can ever see. Scopus was one of the most famous of the late classical Greek. That's when Greek sculpture reached its pinnacle. Praxilites, Scopus and apparently Mausolus scoured all of the Greek speaking world, got the best sculptors and architects and he built this great mass, you know, the Statue of Liberty. If you look at this from ground, the ground floor all the way at the top, I think it's 350 or something. But the actual statue itself is only about half, it's about 150ft. Well the base of the mausoleum looks almost like the base. I mean some of the reconstructions, not all of them. The base of the Statue of Liberty statue. In other words it's kind of a rectangle and it was a temple, but it was solid with a monumental wall around it. And then there was a colonnade around that and then there was a. The structure looked like it was pyramidal with a roof, four sided pyramid roof and it had colonnades at each section. But it was massive and it was considered famous in antiquity because it was the place where all of the all stars of the late Greek and remember sculpt sculpture reached its pinnacle between 350 and 250. Not during the classical period. It was real, more realistic. This is the great period of the Hellenistic Laocoon statues. I think that's in the Louvre, isn't it? Or is it in the Vatican Museum? I can't remember. But in any case this was a period where Greeks not just were idealistic but realistic. And Scopus was one of the best masters. And so these statues that were in the upper levels of the temple, it is a temple but it had layers on it and it was apparently about 150ft high. So it was almost the size of the Colossus of Rhodes, which was not too far away. And it was one of the most famous tourist sites in antiquity because it was a place you could go and see it perfectly proportion classical Greek temple. You could see Ionic columns and then they had famous Parthenon like metopes and frieze courses, the battle of the giants, the Amazons, all of those typical Greek mythological scenes that allowed the sculptors a chance to show muscularity, women, monsters, etc. And it had that and then it had the brother, sister rulers, and then he died and his wife, I think died two years later. But according to Pliny, the people, the people engaged in the project, I guess they still had their contracts, they continue to finish it, which is quite rare, even though the two creators of the mausoleum were no longer around. So our term mausoleum does not come from any word in Greek that means tomb, sanctuary for the dead or monument. It comes from the word Mausolus the king. And this was so huge and so famous that people called it the mausoleum Mausoleon in Greek. And so that's become the noun ever since in English and all of the European languages for people who are buried above ground and not cremated, which is very rare now. But there's still many cemeteries in New York and Los Angeles where that's true. I had an uncle just as a Dan Rhodes, and my grandfather was his great nephew. So I'm his great, great, great nephew and I have a picture of him in my stairwell. And he was along with his brother, I think it was Tom Rhodes. They were at Sutter's Fort during the Donner party, snow trapped party that was up in the Sierras near what's now Donner Lake and north of Lake Tahoe a little bit Donner Pass. And they needed people to hike in there. So he and his brother were over 6ft, they hiked in there and they rescued the Donner party and they found the trail, got some of them back and then organized relief. And he became, at the turn of the century, because he lived a half century, he became one of the wealthiest people in central California. And he was kind of, I don't know, a loan shark. But he had a lot of capital around Tulare Lake. Tulare Lake was the largest inland lake in the United States west of the Great Lakes. And it, it was basically from where today's 99 Freeway is all the way over to 41 and all the way from what is now Tulare to the grapevine, so to speak. It was a huge lake, very shallow, but it was the receptacle for the end of the Kings river, the Kern river, the Cahuilla River. And it was just huge until these dams on the Cahuilla river or Pine Flat on the King stopped it. My point of all this is when I was growing up, every once in a while local historians wanted to write about him and they would trace down where his portrait was. And apparently this picture he made and he gave to his grandsons. One of which was my grandfather's. Grandmother and grandsons and grandchildren. Granddaughters. And we had it. I think there's three or four other copies. There's one in Hanford by a family. It's related to him. But any. In any case, he built a mausoleum. That's my point. And it's a California historical monument right off 41. And so when I was a little boy, we would drive to Morrow Bay and we'd say, there's Uncle Dan's mausoleum. Can we stop it? It was on private. Now it's a. You can. You have access, in theory, still on private property. But here's my point. We were always scared because we had an uncle who, when he was a little boy, somewhere around 1910, went in there and saw the mausoleum. And. But for. Apparently something had. A piece of architecture had broken into the crystal, and the remains of my great, great, great, great great uncle were not intact. And then the question is, what? How could. You couldn't get it in. We were little boys. We would always. They threw the key in Tulare Lake and it dried up. No, he threw it in the Kings River. No, Tulare Kings River. No, he was under glass. No, he was under crystal. And so every time we drive by, we want to go to the mausoleum. Please let us in. Let us in. No, no, you're not going to Uncle Dan's mausoleum. So I have this picture here, and I think a few years ago somebody did a documentary on him and they found out about it and came here and they took pictures of it. And I have another picture of him somewhere. Yeah, but he. That was something that we don't do anymore with mausoleum. No, actually, that was in. That was famous in that. Sergio Leone, once a time. Once on a time in America where Robert De Niro and James Woods. Oh, yeah, they ended up in a mausoleum for them. James was one of my favorite actors, just brilliant actor who is politically incorrect. So they have tried him and persecuted him to no avail because he's very talented.
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Sammy Wink
Can I take you back to Halicarnassus and that mausoleum? What was it. Was it used for. It was huge. So was it used for something? Did they have religious ceremonies in it as well?
- [37:57]
Victor Davis Hansen
No, it was not. It was not used as a treasury, as most temples are. It was sealed. So it was. It was a burial for the royal family. But there was such expense put into it, and he wanted to make Halicon arses a tourist area or a place of exquisite beauty. And remember, this is now during the Persian Empire's closing days. Because Alexander is going to invade in 334, 333. So just 16 years after this is built, Alexander comes in because that's part of his route down the coast. And he's going to of course preserve it and absorb the carrion, this little mini empire, small, little that the Achmenids had incorporated along with the Lydians. So he's going to come in and this is all going to be part of Hellenistic, the Seleucid and then to the north of Pergamum and Adelaide's empires. And this is when people are exposed to the world again outside of, you know, early Archaic Greece or early Classical Greece when people went to Egypt or they went east and talked about. Now under Alexander the Mediterranean is going to be a Greek lake. And people are going to much more frequently go see the Greek speaking Ptolemies in Egypt and see the pyramids or they're going to see Greek speakers in Asia Minor at Ephesus. The old city of Ephesus is now not going to be Persian anymore. It's going to return to its Greek roots. And this is when they start cataloging all the best places in the world to be a tourist and go see these seven places. And seven is a kind of a magic word if you're a Sage. There's the Seven Sages of Greece, the Seven Wonders of the World, etc. Etc.
- [39:57]
Sammy Wink
Yeah. I also think it's pretty cool that the, the British bought land next to it and then tunneled under to. They are. That's crazy. They do that. Yeah.
- [40:09]
Victor Davis Hansen
They didn't have the money to. The explorers didn't have the money. I'd been in Malta twice and there's a place out in the harbor where they brought the blocks to put them on display when the British ran Malta. But then I think the, the port sunk and it's now out there. But I remember reading that there was one block that came from the mausoleum. It was, I'm trying to think of it. It was in the 1970s when I got, I first went there in 73 and 74 and there was a Danish archaeologist that was that our archaeology program as an undergraduate. And then I went there as a graduate student, although not with the American school that year. I was at the American school, but I did this privately. But I was told before I went that this person was just finishing. I forgot his name, but he was a, he was Danish. And he went through the entire site, cataloged every stone, every piece of statuary, traced them down in every museum and he did some Beautiful reconstructions. And it's kind of funny, if you look at all the reconstructions from the 19th century, none of them look alike because they're based either on Pliny's description or haphazard early British discussions of what, the stylobate. And you go there today, I'm going to go to the mausoleum and you get to Bodrum and it's just up a hill. It's in the city, but you walk up there. And I took my daughter and her husband when they were first married there. We were on a classical tour and I took them up there and then they went to Ephesus and they got in a traffic jam with some people, didn't come back. So I spent the whole day there at a cafe. So I walked around the whole thing and they're trying to make it a little bit more interesting, but it's, there's. It's been completely obliterated. And most of the blocks were melted down for that was a problem in the ancient world. You can. Marble, when it's melted down, creates lime and lime is what they use to whitewash and cover blocks.
- [42:23]
Sammy Wink
Is it a good vacation spot, I mean, or does it, does it belong to Greeks still or.
- [42:30]
Victor Davis Hansen
People got to remember that the coast of Turkey in antiquity was the richest part the area. If you want to go on a tour of classical, you can go to Chanakali, the modern city, but you start at Troy and then you can go down to the city of Pergamum, which was one of the most impressive classical Hellenistic cities in the world of that famous theater that's on a ledge almost. And then you can go to Miletus and Ephesus. If you want to go inland a little bit, you can see the monumental temple of Apollo at Didyma. That's where you can stand between the flutes of the column, they're so huge. And then you can continue south to Halicarnassus at Bodrome, you even turn the corner a little bit and go to Anatolia. It's a beautiful city, but it's very wealthy. And this was, everybody should remember this was Greek from the first two millennia before Christ all the way until the. The onset of the Persian empire in the 6th century. And then the Greeks revolted during the Ionian revolt in the 5th century and that proved they put that down. But they did get their freedom with the destruction of Persia, the second onslaught into Greece after the Battle of Salamis. The Greeks went through with the Delian League and freed those cities. And they were Greek then until the end of the Athenian Empire. And then there was some reconquest by the Achmenas and then Alexander put an end to that from 330, 329, 328. I'm doing this by memory. And then it became Greek speaking under the successor kings, the Adelaides donated their, their kingdom to Rome and the Seleucid Empire was annexed by Rome. And then it was western till the 5th century AD and then it became Byzantine. The West. The Eastern Empire took that area until they finally started to lose that, that coast of anatolia in the 14th and 15th centuries of the modern area. And that was largely because of the misdirected forced crusade where they sacked the city in 1204. I think it was 1203. And that was, you know, that split Christendom and it weakened the empire and then two and 250 years later they lost everything. But that had been Greek. There was an. I'm getting off topic but there was an effort called the megala megale idea, the great idea. After World War I the Greeks bet correctly that the allies would win and they used Thessaloniki Salonika as an allied port to fight Turkey. We know about the Gallipoli disaster. But the Turks lost. The Greeks won. They were able to get Crete and during the earlier Bulgarian War, what is now Northern Greece and they got the islands after, you know, they were Italian. After World War II they were formally returned to Greece. But this is the point I'm making. And the great idea there was the idea that we won World War I, Turkey is, is gone. We can go back and recreate the, the ancient Byzantine Empire. So what we need to do is get the allies to support us to go back from the coast and reclaim Ionia and then reclaim the traditional capital of the Byzantine Empire at Constantinople. And during the weakness of Turkey from 1914 to 1918 the Greek population had, had actually crested. There had been kind of. The Ottoman Empire had been weak for the last 50 years. And during that period of anemic central control, Greeks had come back. So there was a million people living in Smyrna, in the area around Smyrna which is modern Izmir. So then they got this idea that they were going to galvanize the Greek speaking community and go all the way and free Constantinople. And they got near Ankara and they were so overexposed and so outnumbered. And then the British and the French, especially the British said this is a bad idea, we're not going to support this. How would you ever control all of this with, with 10 or 15 million people when they have 30 or 40 million and we don't want this trouble and we're dealing with Turkey to steal in the post war area. We want. The French said well we're going to take Lebanon and Syria. And the British said, oh, we're going to take Iraq and we're going to take Egypt. So they were carving up the Ottoman Empire and the last thing they wanted to do was to get in another war with the young Turks, this new Ataturk government, Camillus. And so they, they sold the Greeks out and they pushed them all the way back and that was one of the most horrific things in the world. They butchered all of the Greeks and they jumped in the water, they jumped in boats. It was worse than Dunkirk and they, they fled. The Americans were off the coast trying to help. I lived on a Microsa Assayas. I lived on Asia Minor street in Athens where almost Everybody in the 1970s I talked to who was over the age of 70 or 80. They had all lived in Asia Minor for six, seven generations and they were refugees. It was the Asian Minor but they were all very, had been very wealthy and when they ethnically cleansed and purged the Greek speaking population it was economically devastating to Turkey. Today if you go into Constantinople you see very few under Erdogan, you see very few Greek speaking Orthodox churches as, as I remember in the 1970s they seem either closed down or there are very few people left. He's trying to kind of squeeze them out. He remember he said he was the new Ottoman emperor.
- [49:00]
Sammy Wink
Yeah. Well, Victor, we need to take a break and then come back and we're going to talk a little bit about England and Germany and I like that you've told us these little tidbits of England too smart to back Greece in that. And they're clever scientists and England has that legacy. But the current PM doesn't seem to be quite living up to its tradition. So we'll come back though. Hold on.
- [49:29]
Victor Davis Hansen
Foreign.
- [49:33]
Sammy Wink
We'Re back and you're at the Victor Davis Hansen Show. Welcome. So Victor, the, the current pm and I, I don't know how to pronounce his first name but it looks like Kyer Starmer. He was the chief prosecutor some years ago and right now the Labor Party's trying to cover up that he wasn't prosecuting grooming gangs for child sex labor and so what are the British up to? I mean that's.
- [50:07]
Victor Davis Hansen
Well, the British have adopted this American. They've been infected by the American virus of woke DEI and Remember, one of the tenets of WOKE is it took the old affirmative action, identity politics, new tribalism, and it amplified it.
- [50:23]
Sammy Wink
It.
- [50:24]
Victor Davis Hansen
And one of the tenets was if you were part of the victimized oppressed binary, they divided the world in half, then you yourself could not be an oppressor. So it was almost a blank check for anybody, anybody. Human nature being what it is, if your parents say for a week, you're not going to be. You're a victimized child, so you can do what you want. Of course you're going to do stuff without the fear of the law or deterrence. So what's happened in England is with this nearly. I don't think, I think it's nearly 16 or 17% of the population is from the Middle east or from Eastern Europe, but maybe 10% is Muslim. But that figure increases enormously in Manchester, Liverpool, London. And given that reality that it is a parliamentary democracy, so people count on the Muslim vote and under the auspices of NOW dei, they are not going to apply the law unequivocally across tribal identity politics line. And that's true of DI everywhere. So they have people who are from Pakistan or from the Middle east in general who have very different ideas about the role of women in society. So in these cases of child trafficking or I think in Britain they call it child grooming, where younger women that are younger than the age of consent, they're either watched carefully by particular gangs or groups and they are trafficked out to people or they're quote unquote married to people are multiply married. But under British law they're. Some of the marriages are informal. In other words, they're trying to retain attitudes toward women that they grew up with in the Middle east or their traditions. And under old British system, good luck. I mean, the British had that famous custom of getting rid of salti Salty. I don't know if I'm pronouncing it right, but they. The, the Indian custom that the widow of the prince or the baron or the local grandee, when he died, she had to go onto the pyre and they said no. And they, and they, when somebody tried to do that, they strapped them to a cannon and blew them up. Not very frequently, at least in the war.
- [53:02]
Sammy Wink
You mean tried to force somebody to do that?
- [53:04]
Victor Davis Hansen
No, the British did. To stop it.
- [53:06]
Sammy Wink
It. Yeah.
- [53:07]
Victor Davis Hansen
And when they were told we have a custom in India that the widow has to, regardless of her age, follow her husband, many of the widows follow their husband onto the funeral pyre. The British reply, the Raj we have a custom in England, too, that we. We kill murderers. So they stamped it out and they did a lot of things like that that now would be considered culturally oppressive. Now. Now the British have the opposite idea that we went abroad in the 19th century to spread the rule of law and Western civilization and the English language and economic and political and social, what we consider norms that made us the most powerful country in the world, even though we had, you wouldn't know it from our small population and scant natural resources. That was the implicit British message. We went to America, we went to Australia, we went to New Zealand, we went to Africa, we went to the Middle east, we went to India. And whenever, wherever we went, we built railroads and we treated. We taught people about the English methodologies of education and government. And the result is you're better off, even though you want, you resent us and you hate us. And what would they call the Kipling called the white man's burden? And. And everybody thinks that's terrible today, but the people who think that was terrible don't look at any upside at all. In other words, that all of the multiplicity of languages in India and tribal customs do have a unified language, English. And one of the reasons that India is so competitive is that people like to invest there because so many people know English and they have a parliamentary democracy, still works, sort of, and that's not usual anywhere else in the world. But the point I'm making is today's British ruling classes have the opposite idea, that we're going to bring people in from the former empire and they're going to enrich our culture by bringing their indigenous practices, one of which is very different attitudes toward women. And who are we to say, given our exploitive record, to question that our system is better than theirs? And so when it butts up against British law, which protects youth and children from sexual exploitation, some people are going to be lax about it and they're not going to think much about it, because it's just. It's just who to say that that custom is any worse than any other custom. Remember what Fanny Willis said she took. Everybody should understand how insidious DEI is when she was caught with Nathan Wade. Remember when I'm talking now about the Fulton county prosecutor who kind of cooked up this idea that Donald Trump was guilty of making an inappropriate phone call by suggesting that he had 10 or 12,000. Ten, I think there were votes there. He knew, and he just asked him to find them. If you invited every prosecutor, if you invited every losing candidate, who called the registrar up and said, I know that I have votes. You just don't want to count them. Can you find them? You would. Would put half of the political world in jail. But she did. Then they found out that her paramore, Nathan Wade, was completely incompetent and he was getting this money. And part of the, the prosecutorial suggestion was that she was going on junkets with him. Remember that?
- [56:51]
Sammy Wink
Yes.
- [56:52]
Victor Davis Hansen
And she was paying him this lavish salary and then he was taking her all over the world on cruises and trips. But this is what I'm getting at. They asked, well, we want to see the records of it. We just. If you're. What you said everything was appropriate above board. Just show, we want to know why you don't have a record of your expenses. Because she said, I paid for it all myself. We had his credit card. Where is yours? Well, I paid him back. Well, where's the check? I paid him back in cash. And they said, well, can you show me the receipt? No, you don't understand. This is an African American tradition to have a lot of cash. And they said, like thousands of dollars in your house? And she said, absolutely. Then she got her father, a former Black Panther himself, and he came in and swore that people didn't understand black culture, that they had loads of cash and they paid for things in cash. But the point I'm making is that this was another attempt to suggest that because of our past victimized status or cultural antithesis to your mainstream, you have no right to apply standards to us. So it's perfectly okay to pay things in cash and have no record. And how dare you ask us in a culturally inappropriate way to show receipts. And I'm not saying that that's unique to the African American, I mean, so called. The Bidens were past masters of it. When Joe Biden gets a check for 250,000 and says loan repayment, you think, okay, he was asked, can you show me where you gave Frank Biden or whoever he was, where is the loan, the loan documents and where were the interest payments? And no, I mean, so obviously he got some money, cash was there. But that's one of the pathological pathologies of dei, the idea that you retreat to your superficial appearance and then from there all good things come. You can nullify the law. You can say, we're going to have sanctuary cities. Believe me, if we had 1 million illegal aliens coming from the Netherlands and Belgium and France, California wouldn't be a sanctuary city. We would say, how dare you people come to our country Illegally, I would say that. But because the people who are coming are from a DEI protected category, then all the law is forgotten. That's what's very. I think people sometimes fail to appreciate one of the great dangers of bi. It's a attack on norms and laws. And it says that people can be exempt from expected behavior because of past victimization. Even though you can't really prove that victimization in a particular case or a particular group of people.
- [59:51]
Sammy Wink
Yep. And it makes it so you can groom children for sex trafficking and the prosecutors.
- [59:59]
Victor Davis Hansen
I'm a professor of 50 years. 50. I taught my first class when I was 21 and grad 22 at graduate school. But I've had students who come up to me and said I either need special consideration where I take my test and I will say to them, well, do you have the certific certificate to show me or the authorization to show me your disability? Well, no, I don't, but I. You don't understand my culture or my this or that. And then you're in the position if you don't allow that student to take it under special non exam conditions, I. E. In a room by himself or something, then you're considered exploitive or racist or whatever. So that's the real problem. Everybody with dei, it creates an erosion or it. It erodes the equal application of the law. It's the modern equivalent to the old boy white sort of southern idea that if you were white in the south and you committed a crime against a person who was not white, the legal system looked the other way because of your particular tribal identity. And so we went from one extreme to the other and called it recompense, I suppose, or Eugliss or mimesis, I don't know. But it destroys a lot.
- [61:23]
Sammy Wink
That's one wing of the left that is undone modern civilization, but also climate and environmentalism. And you recently wrote an article about Germany and the plan after World War II to dismantle it. And your article was arguing that the left in Germany has done that today. I think I did.
- [61:47]
Victor Davis Hansen
I wrote an article on the Morgenthau plan. Henry Morgan, I should say Morgan Thau. He was Secretary of the treasury for a long time. He came in in 1934 and he lasted till the end of the Roosevelt administration. 45. And he was ever. I mean he didn't. I don't think he ever really went to college. He had no degree. But he had made a lot of money. Inherited a lot, but he made more and he knew a lot about finance. They Made him Secretary of the Treasury. So as the allies were getting near the Rhine river, he came up with a plan. He taught it came up in Quebec and it would come up in Yalta. And then after the war at Potsdam, what are we going to do with Germany? And his position was, well, they, they got in. They invaded France in 1870, 71, Siege of Paris. Then they took the Alsace Lorraine and then they invaded Belgium in 1914. And then they invaded Poland in 1939. So they always start war, but this time 60, 70 million people got killed and we're going to punish them. So this what to do with the post war Germany? Well, there was already a problem because as I said earlier, Stalin stole half the Poland. He was not going to give it back. He was on the winning side. He had flipped sides and he said, I'm going to keep eastern Poland. It's now Ukraine. In fact today independent Ukraine. As I said earlier, about a third of it is polio and was Roman Catholic and Polish speaking since the Middle ages, not after 1939. He ethnically cleansed the Poles and he made it part of the Soviet Union. So they, they said take it to the Poles who needed a country. They said take it from Pomerania and East Prussia. And they did. So, you know, Danzig became Gdansk and everything. So my point is that this was a change of borders. So Morgenthau said we're going to change the borders, number one. Number two, we're going to de. Industrialize. So all of the plants and industries and energy apparat along the rural valley will be decommissioned. Well, it wasn't hard to do because the bombing campaigns by September 1944 had been pretty extensive. And then he said we're going to make it a pastoral society and break up the central control from Berlin and have different sort of like East West Germany, but even more so broken up into principalities before the unification of Germany, a loose confederation organized and supervised by Britain and the United States. Well, in addition to that, they were going to have no army or no military ever. So you can imagine what the powerhouse of Europe for 100 years was kind of not going to have anything. But then they leaked it. And Joseph goebbels, this was September 1944, that by October the Germans had it. And as you know, the Battle of the Bulge is going to start just in two months in December. And pretty soon George Marshall, chief of staff of the army, came to Roosevelt and he said Morgendale's an idiot. What he's done is he's told the German people that they're going to revert back to a pre civilized country forever. Kind of like Tacitus of Germania. That's a first century AD treatise about the wilds of Germany and you know, people swimming in ice cold rivers and drinking milk in this tribal society and they're fighting like fanatics. We lost 80,000 casualties at the Battle of the Bulge. And then Herbert Hoover came in, the great hunger baron who, you know, who tried to save, he did save millions of people after World War I. He said you're going to have, it's going to be worse than World War I. You're going to have mass starvation. If you, if they can't make steel or light bulbs or medicines, what are you going to do? How are you going to. And Goebbels went to town. So between those two arguments they dropped it. So I wrote this article and I said, if you look at what Germany is doing today, given the power of the Green Party and those loose coalitions that have allied themselves with it, they have shut down nuclear plants, they tried to shut down coal plants, oil fired plants and regeneration and go solar and wind. But Germany is, it's not very sunny, is it? And in very many cases it's not that windy. So they, they had a power with, they had a problem with power. So they were buying nuclear power from France. Then they, and they got so desperate that the price of electricity has gone up four times what it is in the United States on average. Not here in California, that's becoming Germany, but nationwide. So then the biggest three car companies are Mercedes, BMW, Volkswagen, Mercedes, BMW, Audi and all the other import. And they said we cannot compete. And then they had the EV mandates that you have to have a certain percent worse than ours. And they said, look, people do not buy a Porsche or Mercedes to drive 250 miles. They just don't do it. They want a high performance, reliable German product, a stamp of excellence, engines. And so it started to hurt the competitiveness. And then they also decided basically to disarm. So I think Germany has, I don't know, 125 jets. They announced, I think they announced we're going to buy F35, the state of the art, they multitask, force fighter. And I thought they were going to buy like 100 or 200. They couldn't decide whether they're going to buy six or eight and add to their 25 or 30. And they're giving Leopard tanks to, but the tanks they're giving to Ukraine, I don't know how many there are 20 or 30. That's almost. They don't have much more than two or 300 tanks. They used to have 200. I don't want to get back. You can see, in fairness to Morgenthau, you can see what he was reacting to. He's reacting to the invasion of Western Europe, the Holocaust, and this monstrous Nazi regime. But my point in the article was, if you fast forwarded and you looked at Germany today after this wondrous economic miracle after World War II, after a very solid contribution to NATO in the 1950s and 60s, late 50s and 60s, you would say, my gosh, they are disarming. They don't really have a military. Oh, my gosh, they have no borders anymore. It's not. It says it's Germany, but a million people from the Middle east just walked in with Merkel. We can do this. We can do this. Remember that. And 20% of the German population was not born in Germany, many of them from the Middle East. And they're not assimilated. Then you'd say, okay, no military, no real borders, and electricity, four times the price anywhere else in the world. Businesses shutting down, corporations outsourcing. It's the Morgenthau plan. He won. After all, they deliberately did on their own what they once objected to. So we, the victors, said, we can do anything we want to Germany, but we're not going to do the Morgenthau plan. Even that is too radical, given their. Even their sins. Not all Germans are responsible for that. They would ruin Germany. We wanted to be rehabilitated and powerful, but not militarily powerful. But they did it on their own. I wrote that, and somebody wrote me. I'm just talking about all the stuff I get in the mail. I don't have time to reply to him. But he said, how dare you say that they didn't do it. Their leaders did it. Who elected their leaders? And if you want to say to me, well, Victor, you didn't let in 20, I don't know, Joe Biden's 12 million illegal agents. Joe Biden did. We elected Joe Biden. We elected him. And so we're all responsible in a democracy or a constitutional republic. And so I know that you didn't. You, the letter writer, didn't vote for candidates, but the majority of candidates who won had a majority of the population, and they thought it would work. And it's. It's a complete suicide pack. It's a pact with suicide on a collective national scale.
- [70:30]
Sammy Wink
Yeah. So as somebody who reads the comments on your site, there were many Germans who wrote it and said, you got it. All right. Victor Davis Hansen I lived it. So there's one thing there. But also, but also the Elon Musk recently wrote an article advocating for a new party called the Alternative for Germany. So there is hope on the horizon.
- [70:56]
Victor Davis Hansen
It's been around about a decade and it's been called of course by the Greens and the Christian Democrats. Democrats as socialist parties, Racist, white only. It's not really. It's returning it back to where the part where the country was in the 1950s or 60s. It's for energy development. It is for rearming, not in a massive way, but in a European fashion. And it's to stop this crazy DEI stuff and to apply the same rules of order and behavior and law to immigrants as they do to Germany Germans. And it's now after this latest, the latest poll after the horrific terrorist attack three weeks ago, they have the largest public support of any of the many parties in Germany. But anyway, I should say that just to finish today I get a lot of letters and I get in so many different. I get to the website and I have somebody that does it and I go through those then I get them to me. I don't know, I don't give out my personal but I get a lot every day and then I get a lot to my Stanford address. We have a full time person doing that. So if you put them all together there's maybe 100 or 200. Not as much as I'm just a normal person but for me I can't go through two or 300 snail mail and but my point is that sometimes people will say well why don't you reply to this? Or why don't you do this? I can't even address all of one of them today said or it was a comment and said I'm getting so tired of your 10 year old videos. I'm glad you're doing a video for Ultra. And I thought I haven't done a 10 year old. Then I think what he must be referring to is that people on their own post youtubes of lectures that were just stale. You know, I, for 30 years I toured the country. I was flat broke. So I would go to universities or corporations, get a thousand dollars, five hundred and give a lecture. And they taped it. And maybe they thought because we have this podcast or I became a little bit better known, they started to put it out but I didn't. I have no control over that. We do just to Finish. We do three independent up to date each week. And that is two ultra 750 word articles. I used to do three, but we're starting with a video five minute video on a contemporary topic. In fact, I think the one I did yesterday, it's going to be posted today as I speak is about 12 or 15 minutes. So that takes, that's three a day. And then I have a long column every Monday for American greatness, about 15 to 2,000 words. And then I have a column syndicated I've done for 20 years. I've never missed one, not one. Even though I've had a death in my family, even though I had a ruptured appendix in Libya, even though I had two kidney operations. So that's five days a week is original content. So when I'm doing that five each day I have have a new thing. I have a full time job at Hoover and I have a now a three book project with basic books. First book is due just in a few months and I just started it. So I've been really busy. So it's not like I haven't been doing anything. And I'm trying to suggest I have been by posting 10 year old videos I have no control over. You know, it's very funny about the. You have to be kind of ambiguous when you see people who, who takes all of your videos and they'll do things like great generals of World War II. And then they'll put videos with your lecture on Patton or Curtis LeMay or they'll say my website is Trends and small Farming. And then you'll have a lecture. You'll be listed there as you know, they'll have a little link to a lecture. So rather than go back and say don't do that, you didn't get permission. I don't know who has permission. So then I kind of say, well, if they want to get the word out, go ahead and do it. But it's not me doing it. So I don't know how old it is. Some of them are 20 or 30 years old. You can tell usually if I had hair.
- [75:23]
Sammy Wink
Not when you have hats on. Well, thanks everybody for listening. Victor, you've been wonderful today. It's been a nice. I hope everybody's enjoying their week.
- [75:33]
Victor Davis Hansen
Thank you everybody for listening once more.
- [75:36]
Sammy Wink
This is Sammy Wink and Victor Davis Hansen and we're signing off.