Zeldin’s Drive to Deregulate and the Iliad’s Relevance Today

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Victor Davis Hanson Show Episode: Zeldin’s Drive to Deregulate and the Iliad’s Relevance Today
Release Date: August 14, 2025
Hosts: Victor Davis Hanson and Jack Fowler

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1. Lee Zeldin’s Deregulatory Actions on the EPA

Overview:
The episode delves into Lee Zeldin's significant efforts to deregulate the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), marking one of the most extensive deregulations in U.S. history. Victor and Jack analyze the implications of these actions on federal regulation of greenhouse gases and the broader economic landscape, particularly focusing on California's energy policies.

Key Points:

• Trump Administration’s Deregulatory Move:
  Jack introduces a piece from Unwn highlighting the Trump administration's decision to end the federal government's authority to regulate carbon dioxide, methane, and other greenhouse gases. This repeal targets the EPA's 2009 endangerment finding and the Biden-Harris administration's electric vehicle mandate.
  "This would amount to the largest deregulatory action in the history of the United States," [04:54] Jack Fowler.

• Victor’s Analysis on Global Emissions and Economic Impact:
  Victor contrasts Europe's attempts to reduce emissions with China’s continued reliance on coal, arguing that Europe's efforts have had minimal impact on global emissions but significant economic repercussions for its own economy. He criticizes California’s high energy costs and regulatory environment, linking these factors to business exoduses from the state.
  "We in California pay about double the average of electricity nationwide. We're like Europe," [07:15] Victor Davis Hanson.

• Economic Strain in California:
  The discussion highlights California's soaring energy prices, high taxes, and generous welfare programs, which Victor argues are unsustainable and detrimental to the middle class. He points out that these policies are driving professionals and businesses away, exacerbating economic decline.
  "Nobody can live if you're middle class," [10:14] Victor Davis Hanson.

Notable Quotes:

• "This would amount to the largest deregulatory action in the history of the United States," – Jack Fowler [04:54]
• "We in California pay about double the average of electricity nationwide. We're like Europe," – Victor Davis Hanson [07:15]
• "Nobody can live if you're middle class," – Victor Davis Hanson [10:14]

2. Nancy Pelosi and Gender-Affirming Surgeries

Overview:
The hosts transition to discussing Nancy Pelosi's stance on gender-affirming surgeries for transgender youth, critiquing her priorities and highlighting perceived misalignments between her public statements and actual motives.

Key Points:

• Pelosi’s Advocacy:
  Jack references a Newsmax story where Pelosi expresses her support for gender-affirming care at a VA Medical Center, framing it as a national effort.
  "I think her is saving the kids," [18:00] Jack Fowler.

• Victor’s Critique:
  Victor argues that Pelosi's true priorities lie in leveraging confidential information for personal financial gain rather than genuinely advocating for transgender youth. He suggests that her public stance is a facade masking deeper, self-serving agendas.
  "The real priority is... turning the Pelosi family income from maybe a million bucks to a net worth of 100 or 200 million," [19:59] Victor Davis Hanson.

Notable Quotes:

• "The real priority is... turning the Pelosi family income from maybe a million bucks to a net worth of 100 or 200 million," – Victor Davis Hanson [19:59]
• "She's cognitively impaired... She's not the sweet speaker anymore," – Victor Davis Hanson [20:51]

3. Judicial Actions and Judge Boasberg’s Contempt Proceedings

Overview:
Victor and Jack examine the recent appeals court decision to quash Judge Boasberg’s contempt proceedings related to the Alien Enemies Act deportations. The conversation extends to a broader critique of the judiciary's politicization and its impact on legal integrity.

Key Points:

• Appeals Court Decision:
  Jack brings up the case where an appeals court overturned Judge Boasberg’s contempt orders, questioning his adherence to the law.
  "Appeals Court panel quashes Judge Boasberg's Contempt Proceedings over Alien Enemies act deportations," [40:56] Jack Fowler.

• Victor’s Perspective on the Judiciary:
  Victor criticizes the judiciary, particularly lower district judges, for being left-leaning and prioritizing political narratives over legal principles. He emphasizes that many judges lack substantial legal reputations and are more focused on opposing Trump than upholding the law.
  "They have no legal reputation... They just, if it's Trump's fingerprints on it, it's going to be overturned," [43:14] Victor Davis Hanson.

Notable Quotes:

• "They have no legal reputation... They just, if it's Trump's fingerprints on it, it's going to be overturned," – Victor Davis Hanson [43:14]
• "Judge Boasberg and I'm a folk hero to the left. I stopped Trump, I delayed Trump," – Victor Davis Hanson [40:56]

4. The Iliad’s Relevance to Modern Warriors

Overview:
The episode concludes with an exploration of how Homer's Iliad resonates with contemporary soldiers, particularly those in the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF). Victor provides a classical perspective, linking ancient epic narratives to modern understandings of warfare and soldierly ethos.

Key Points:

• Impact of the Iliad on Soldiers:
  Jack shares a Newsmax piece discussing how the Iliad helped an IDF soldier process his combat experiences, finding solace and understanding through the epic's portrayal of war and humanity.
  "The Iliad gave him a deeper understanding of what human beings are capable of," [55:25] Jack Fowler.

• Victor’s Classical Analysis:
  Victor delves into the origins of the Iliad, its role in shaping Greek mythology, and its themes of honor, wrath, and humanity. He draws parallels between Achilles' journey and the moral conflicts faced by modern soldiers, emphasizing the timeless nature of these epic themes.
  "The lesson of the Iliad? That a warrior who kills and is praised for killing starts to mature and think... you've got to show some human compassion to the enemy," [57:25] Victor Davis Hanson.

• Historical Context and Evolution of Morality:
  Victor elaborates on how the Iliad reflects the transition from a purely martial society to one grappling with complex moral and ethical dilemmas, a theme that remains relevant for today's warriors facing the psychological aftermath of combat.

Notable Quotes:

• "The Iliad gave him a deeper understanding of what human beings are capable of," – Jack Fowler [55:25]
• "The lesson of the Iliad? That a warrior who kills and is praised for killing starts to mature and think... you've got to show some human compassion to the enemy," – Victor Davis Hanson [57:25]

5. Listener Feedback and Final Thoughts

Overview:
Towards the end of the episode, Jack shares positive feedback from listeners, highlighting the show's impact across generations. The hosts express gratitude towards their audience and encourage further engagement.

Key Points:

• Positive Listener Feedback:
  Jack reads a heartfelt comment from a listener praising the show’s insightful discussions and historical references, noting its popularity among Victor’s grandchildren and great-grandchildren.
  "I have 13 grandchildren and 14 great grandchildren who I tell continuously, you must listen to Victor Davis Hanson," [71:25] Jack Fowler.

• Encouragement to Subscribe:
  Victor promotes his free weekly newsletter, Civil Thoughts, urging listeners to subscribe for curated readings and insights.
  "So if you go to civilthoughts.com, sign up, comes out every Friday... You're going to love it. It's free," [71:33] Victor Davis Hanson.

Notable Quotes:

• "I have 13 grandchildren and 14 great grandchildren who I tell continuously, you must listen to Victor Davis Hanson," – Jack Fowler [71:25]
• "You're going to love it. It's free," – Victor Davis Hanson [71:33]

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Conclusion

In this episode, Victor Davis Hanson and Jack Fowler provide a critical analysis of deregulation efforts under Lee Zeldin, scrutinize Nancy Pelosi’s political maneuvers, evaluate the politicization of the judiciary, and explore the enduring relevance of the Iliad to modern soldiers. Their discussions intertwine contemporary political issues with historical and classical perspectives, offering listeners a comprehensive and thought-provoking narrative.

Notable Themes:

• Deregulation vs. Economic Stability:
  Balancing environmental policies with economic growth and energy affordability.

• Political Priorities and Corruption:
  Examining the intersection of public advocacy and personal financial interests.

• Judicial Integrity:
  The impact of political biases within the judiciary on legal outcomes.

• Classical Wisdom in Modern Contexts:
  Leveraging ancient literature to understand and process contemporary warfare and moral dilemmas.

Quotes of Interest:

• "Nobody can live if you're middle class," – Victor Davis Hanson [10:14]
• "The real priority is... turning the Pelosi family income from maybe a million bucks to a net worth of 100 or 200 million," – Victor Davis Hanson [19:59]
• "The lesson of the Iliad? That a warrior who kills and is praised for killing starts to mature and think... you've got to show some human compassion to the enemy," – Victor Davis Hanson [57:25]

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For More Information:

• Subscribe to Civil Thoughts: Visit civilthoughts.com for Victor’s free weekly newsletter.
• Explore Victor Davis Hanson’s Work: Visit victorhansen.com to learn more about his publications and the Blade of Perseus.

Transcript

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[Jack Fowler]

Hello ladies. Hello, gentlemen. Welcome to the Victor Davis Hansen Show. We are recording on Sunday 10th August and this particular episode will be up on Thursday the 14th. I'm Jack Fowler. I'm in a strange place right now, but we're making it work. But who cares about me? Because you're here to hear and to listen to and to see. Victor Davis Hansen, the star of the show, who is the Martin and Ely Anderson Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution and the Wayne and Marsha Busky Distinguished Fellow in History at Hillsdale College and the man with the website, the Blade of Perseus. Go there. Victorhansen.com check it out. You'll see so much stuff and you'll Want to subscribe. 65 bucks discounted from 650amonth. That gives you access to all the things Victor writes and the videos he does exclusively for the Blade of Perseus. What are we going to talk about today, Victor? You know what? Let's start off with one of the heroes, I think of the of this second Trump administration and that's Lee Zeldin, who's done some terrific stuff with EPA regulations. And we've got one of our favorite congresspeople, women, Nancy Pelosi and she's fighting for kids for their sex change surgeries. Please, why doesn't she just retire? We've got that. We've got many more issues to get your wisdom on. We'll get to all that when we come back from these important messages.

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[Jack Fowler]

We're back with the Victor Davis Hansen Show. Victor, let's get we'll kick this off with Lee Zeldin and I'm reading from a piece in unwon a great website unwn titled Trump's EPA Moving to End Federal Regulation of Greenhouse Gases. And here's the first few lines from the story. In one of the most sweeping deregulatory actions in US History, the Trump administration is set to end the federal government's authority to regulate carbon dioxide, methane and other greenhouse gases on Tuesday. This would have been about 10 days ago from when this podcast is up. EPA Administrator Lee Zeldin announced plans to repeal the EPA's 2009 endangerment finding, revoking the agency's power to regulate six greenhouse gas emissions under the Clean Air Act. This would also end the Biden Harris administration's electric vehicle mandate. If finalized, today's announcement would amount to the largest deregulatory action in the history of the United States, Zeldin said. Viva Lee Zeldin what Do you think, Victor?

[Victor Davis Hanson]

I think he's thinking of Europe and Europe's collective suicide and what he's basically saying the subtext is that China is producing somewhere between 20 and 30 new dirty coal, bituminous coal plants and lignite. And they, in addition to their use of, you know, other fuels, natural gas, which is, I guess the EPA says, the old EPA said is a pollutant, divine heat, but oil and all of these diesel fuels. So basically, if you look at a chart of emissions, what Europe has done to vastly curtail its oil and natural gas and coal production and go to wind and solar has not really marginally affect total global emissions. It's really markedly affected European. But because of the size of China, 1.4 billion people and its gung ho idea that it's going to use any type of cheap fuel that it can. And given it feels that the west will go under BIDEN and the EU was going into renewable solar and wind and EVs that basically the rest of the world would get cheap fossil fuels. And as an extra bonus, the west would cripple and neuter itself. And China and India and other countries would be much more competitive because they would be using much cheaper sources of electrical generation. And that's what was happening. And so when you look at Europe, its cost which is ahead of us, believe it or not, on wind and solar, but a good example is California, which was trying to brag for a few hours not long ago that in the daytime it almost had achieved with people's solar panels on their homes, these huge new solar and wind farms, that self sufficiency in renewables without, and they were counting hydroelectric as well, without telling us that at night we are a vast importer of energy and often it's coal produced. But we in California pay about double the average of electricity nationwide. We're like Europe. And so that's one of the reasons that we don't talk about why Tesla and all these other companies have leaving California. It wasn't just a regulatory punishment that the government dishes out, but it was the cost of power. Gasoline to get to work, diesel to deliver products and electricity to make things. It's so expensive here. So what Lee Zeldin is basically saying is we're not going to be like Europe. They're falling apart. Their GDP used to be pretty much what ours was 25 years ago and now it's only 2/3. And that's attributable to their declining fertility rate, their exorbitant price of energy, their open borders and Huge social cost of illegal immigration from the Islamic world. And we're not going to do it, at least as far as the hyper regulation and wind and solar. And the beneficiaries are whom? The middle class. The middle class.

[Jack Fowler]

Well, you don't have power, you have poverty. And why the bleeding hearts don't see that. Or maybe they see it, maybe they relish it. Actually, it's one thing, the other thing. Victor, you just mentioned California. I wrote a piece for National Review the other day, I think you mentioned before, the forthcoming closing of two refineries in the state is going to cut gasoline availability by 20%. You already have this new tax going and that's going to add 65 cents a gallon. The cut of the fuel is just going to make it.

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[Jack Fowler]

Be like nine, ten dollars a gallon. Can you imagine that someday in California for gasoline?

[Victor Davis Hanson]

Yeah. Something's got to give. It's like here's the state and you're pulling at it in every direction. What do I mean by that? You're driving out oil refineries. You're raising the price of gas. You're putting the great monasteries. Monterey Shale basin off limits. The very rich naval reserve fields in the Bakersfield area are declining in output. The offshore, I think we only have 11, 10 or 11 platforms left. They're reaching even with, you know, increased horizontal drilling, they're reaching their limits. And production is going down. So production of fossil fuels is going down radically. Refineries are leaving because of the regulation. The taxes are going up. Silicon Valley and other types of businesses are fleeing the state. The state has in response raised their taxes from 10 to 11 to 12 to 13.3 on the top rates income tax. The property taxes are very high, not because of the percentage, but because the assessments are so high. The electricity, as I said, is way over 30 cents a kilowatt at certain times. And nobody can live if you're middle class. But we also have the most generous welfare benefits. So half the state is on half of the deliveries of newborns or medi cal. And 40% of the state is on Medi California. And 21% lives below the poverty line. And one third of all recipients nationwide who get federal entitlements are in California, which only has one sixth of the population. So you can see what I'm getting at. The professional class and the middle classes are leaving. The rich who have big beautiful homes along the coast and it's a wealthy estate. They've traditionally made a fortune in California. They don't care about what the price is. If you tell somebody in Montecito or Malibu or Carmel that the price of gas is going to go to seven or eight, they said that's good. There'll be less people bugging my estate. If you say, well, to turn on your sprinklers or something, it's going to be absorbent electricity. I don't care. I don't need these people. That's their attitude. And then the poor who are mostly immigrants, first and second generation, mostly from south of the border, they have traditionally said, it's fine with me. I get free health care, my kids are born free, I get housing supplements, my kids get affirmative action, it's a big welfare state. And here's the unknown. And that is, as I said, About 45% in this minority majority state is Hispanic. And we don't know what that means anymore. Third generation, second generation, first. But we do know this, that the majority of high paying jobs in the state bureaucracy and many of the mid level companies are increasingly staffed by Hispanics. And they are becoming the establishment, but they're not the wealthy establishment. So they are paying anywhere from 9 to 12% income tax. They are living in areas where they see new illegal immigrants come in and get free stuff. They can see they have to pay the tax and they're saying, oh my gosh, my own Democratic party hates me. Now. They used to like me because I'm Hispanic and gave me special privileges. Now they hate me because I'm middle class and upper middle class and they think I'm just a piggy bank and I don't care who the guy is, it's, you know, getting free stuff. I don't want to pay for it anymore. And I don't care who these wealthy people are that patronize me. They're the ones that are behind this radical environmental craziness. And I don't like them either. And we'll see how they break. But Gavin Newsom thinks that he's got them in his pocket, that Hispanics vote as Hispanics and therefore as Democrats and therefore as left wingers. And he's going to reject district a state that has about 40% vote for Trump, 38, 39 maybe, and it only has about 20% Republican congressional districts. And I think out of the 53, they're down to 10 or 11. And he thinks that he's going to be a crusader by doing what, Gavin, you put your head on the guillotine. He thought I'm going to be really the tough guy. And Beat my chest and say, texas, what you're doing, I'm going to counteract because I'm bigger than you are. And we're going to redistribute. But the problem is that it was reform movements, Democrats and Republicans, that made this state supposedly nonpartisan redistricting commission. And of course, as Democrats do, they hijacked it and inserted leftists in it and redistrict. If you look at our districts, they look like jigsaw puzzles. And they ensured that Republicans would only have half the congressional seats and maybe only, I don't know, 65% of the state legislature seats that they deserved by their numbers. And so now Gavin is basically going to do two things, Jack. He's going to go back to the people of California and he's going to say, I want to throw out this constitutional amendment passed by ballot and abolish the nonpartisan redistrict commission, which we hijacked and made it partisan, but it wasn't partisan enough because I want to ensure that California goes from 20% Republican representation when they have 40% by population down to 10 or maybe zero. And I don't think that's going to sell. I really don't. He should be saying right now to his Democratic friends that are fleeing to Chicago, hey, everybody, you should do what we did. We've solved the problem. Texas is going to redistribute, redistribute its Congress, but they won't ever be as successful as we were. We really got the Republicans. They had 40% almost. They only have 20%. We did that. We hijacked the nonpartisan commission. It was a brilliant idea, but he can't do that. He's so greedy. And he has to get. He's running for office, so he has to double down on. Double down. You know what I mean?

[Jack Fowler]

Yeah.

[Victor Davis Hanson]

Absolutely. Shameless. What's he going to do? He's going to brag that when he runs for president. Under Gavin Newsom's direction, the California congressional delegation went from being 20% Republican down to 10%. I don't think that's a good message.

[Jack Fowler]

It's a complete and total annihilation of your enemies. Seems to be what motivates them. Hey, Victor, before we move on to another California. California person who is just your president of her fan club, I want to say something about our [e-mail] to our listeners. If you're tired of replacing your grill every couple of years, you want to check out the Hotvast Solaire Infrared Grill from Besttaughgrill.com Solaire makes these amazing American grills that heat up to 1,000 degrees in just three minutes. Solaire infrared grills eliminate flare ups and consistently make juicy flavored food. The Solaire Infrared Grill heats your food directly, not the air around the food like conventional grills do. Solaire has been making infrared grills for 20 years and has really dialed in the design. Experience the Solaire Infrared Grill firsthand with the Solaire Demo Rental Program. You can try Solaire before you buy with the foods your family enjoys without a salesman breathing down your neck and see why Solaire is the last grill you will ever buy. Learn [e-mail] that's besthotgrill.com and try before youe Buy with the Solaire Demo rental [e-mail] and we thank the good people from Solaire for sponsoring the Victor Davis Hansen Show. So Victor, his headline Pelosi working quote unquote Working for Sex Change Surgeries Nationally this is a Newsmax story. Former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Democrat, California, said she's fighting for sex changes surgery on the national level while at San Francisco VA Medical center on Thursday. That would have been a week ago from today when we're airing where she reviewed health system upgrades. Pelosi was asked how her office was responding to pauses in gender transitioning surgeries in California. Quote that is something I'm working for at the national level and we have are hoping that we can have gender affirming care for our trans kids, pelosi told reporters. Victor the priority of Nancy Pelosi is slicing off body parts of boys and girls. It's well, not a surprise.

[Victor Davis Hanson]

That's one priority. The main priority is talking to her husband about confidential information of where the next federal project is going to be located in California, where the on ramp is going to be, where the off ramp, what the zoning is going to be, what the building is going to be so he or what the interest rate is going to be so he can act accordingly in anticipation and turn the Pelosi family income from maybe a million bucks to a net worth of 100 or 200 million in palatial residences. That's the real priority. I listened to her. I couldn't understand. I felt bad for her. Did you see that clip?

[Jack Fowler]

I did see it.

[Victor Davis Hanson]

She was so confused. I don't even think she knew what gender affirming care is. She hesitated. She was lost.

[Jack Fowler]

She was Biden esque.

[Victor Davis Hanson]

I'm 71 and I forget names sometimes. But there's a problem with this geriatric chauvinism. We're not supposed to say something, but to the degree it's age related, I mean, I listen to Charles Grassley, the guy is what, 92 or something? And he sounds sharp as a tack to use that Biden inappropriate. He's very. I'm not saying. And Warren Buffett and all these people are, you know, no problem. But gosh, she, she is cognitively impaired. She really is. And I don't know what she says she's going to do this. She's not the sweet speaker anymore. I don't know what influence she has. She seems to be increasingly irrelevant. She's not at the pulse of the party, which is the Jasmine Crockett lunatic base. And I don't know what she means by gender affirming care. If her 16 year old or say her 15 year old granddaughter goes to school and is told that transitioning is something everybody considers and she goes up to Nancy and says, I think I need my breast removed surgically. What would Nancy do? And she said, I think she would have a fit gender. Affirming. It's not affirming gender. It's a radical surgery that can remove vital anatomy that will change a person's health for the rest of their lives. And it's not in isolation. It's accompanied by very dangerous drugs, hormones and whatnot, and some cases steroids and stuff. So I thought the left was always warning us about over medication and too many surgeries and doctor activism that gets in the way of prudent integrative medicine. And suddenly if it's, you know, that's so everybody should realize what's scary about the left is they control the media and the popular culture. And that popular culture and media can serve as a retardant or a break on popular passion. So if you're a Republican or conservative, the first idea that gets in your head, they will attack you and they'll attack you unfairly. But one result of it is if you're a conservative, you have to be very careful what you say and think because they pounce and they go after you. If you're a Democrat, though, they just give you free reign and that just encourages wild style stuff. It's the same thing about tampering with the environment. There was a story that off the coast of California, Central coast, they're thinking about ways of blocking the sun to decrease global warming. I thought that tampering with the environment, whether it's creating coronaviruses in the lab or doing Things like that is very, very dangerous. But again, because it's left, if some right wing guy said, I've got a plan and I have a gold mine and it's off the grid. So I have this big wind turbine turbine I'm going to use and it's going to create the electricity for my mining operation to get gold. And there's going to be golden eagles and ospreys that are going to go through it and get shredded. They wouldn't allow that in two seconds. But because you're left wing, there's no scrutiny over wind or solar or any of that stuff, or even pollution or dangerous experimentation. It's the same thing with the MRNA booster. All of a sudden they declared that that was the thing to get a booster. And nobody really understood the spike protein or the after effects on some people or immune compromised people. And you can really see it in the Soviet Union. It was a people's republic and they just dumped nuclear waste anywhere they wanted. And their basic attitude is, what are you going to do? And I can tell you when I drive in California and you see Caltrans and they know that the left controls the state. They don't take a lot of care about signs that say under construction or bumps in the road or open trenches at the side of the road. Because their attitude is basically, we are the king and the king is law and we're left and they're not going to do anything to us because we're the state. Whereas if they were a private contractor, they'd be sued left and right. And at some point somebody's got to pay for all this. And if you demonize all these wealthy people and they're leaving and you keep going at it, it's even Gavin, you know, he had to back down from giving free health care to more illegal aliens. And he's worried now that we've had the most illegal aliens in the country. As I said, half of the births and the medical budget is just consuming a huge proportion that used to go to infrastructure. And yet he can't cross that constituency. And yet he knows that it's not going to work financially. And his whole Gavin Newsom's whole strategy. I got to get out of Dodge before it falls apart. And I just hope that it doesn't fall. It's kind of like Mike Dukakis. Remember he kind of ruined Massachusetts. And he said, I was the governor of Massachusetts that wasn't ideological, I was competent. Everybody hated the left at that point. And then he called it the Massachusetts miracle. And it worked pretty well in the primary and the first thing against George Bush. And then it started coming in and they ran. Oh, wait a minute. Boston Harbor's filthy dirty man, Willie Horton just gets out of that revolving door that was in addition to him, bobblehead in the tank. But it didn't last long enough. The miracle blew up and then he was considered not competent. If he wasn't competent, that was about the end for him.

[Jack Fowler]

By the way, I'm glad you mentioned the, the shredded birds and bald eagles because if you, if you, I think if you owned a bald eagle feather at one point, maybe even now, you.

[Victor Davis Hanson]

Know, you can't have one. No, no, no, no, no.

[Jack Fowler]

But you can kill them. And whales, right? Weren't whales the great and should be, you know, save Willy. Free Willy. But these turbines.

[Victor Davis Hanson]

They what? They interfere with their natural sonar?

[Jack Fowler]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, they do that.

[Victor Davis Hanson]

They interrupt bird migration. I mean, birds, when they want to go from the coast to the Central Valley, they follow natural depressions in the landscape called passes and passes are where the wind is tunneled through from different barometers and stuff. So whether it's the ultimate pass or Pacheco Pass or down by Palm Street Springs, that's where the wind machines are and that's where a lot of birds fly and that's where they get torn up. Yeah. And same.

[Jack Fowler]

Well, Victor, we're going to take a little break and when we come back from that, we're going to talk about Judge Boasberg getting smacked down and maybe we'll talk about, well, we have a couple of Donald Trump using troops in against, well, wanting to use them against drug cartels and wanting to use them within the District of Columbia. And we'll do all that when we come back from these important messages. We are back with the Victor Davis Hanson show recording on Sunday the 10th. And this episode is up on Let me get my calendar straight, Thursday the 14th. And I am grateful father and father in law doing this from my daughter Elizabeth's house. Thank you kindly, my sweet daughter and her brilliant husband Ben. Victor, I do have to, I want to mention before we get these topics, you know, we talked sometimes about angels and Joe N. Who runs helps administer the Victor Davis Hansen fan club on Facebook, is orthodox. And, you know, I don't know how Swedish Protestants, how many angels they think of, but we think generally Christians. We thought, you know, Michael the Archangel.

[Victor Davis Hanson]

You've corrected me on the number and the nature and the nomenclature of angels on a number of occasions.

[Jack Fowler]

Yes. But now I'm admitting my own ignorance because you know, there's a broader Christianity than just what I believe in. So Joe, who is, who is again Orthodox says there are within the Greek tradition at least seven angels. Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, Uriel. Those are the ones we all also agree with. And then Chamuel, Jophiel and Zadkiel. I hope I pronounce those right. And then someone else sent me something about an archangel named, who is venerated in Eastern Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy. So I'm very intrigued by this. I'm going to study more, but I wanted to make a correction, you know, admission at least of my ignorance of angels.

[Victor Davis Hanson]

So I was curious, I think I told you that On Black Tuesday, May 20th, 28th, at around noon 1453, the Emperor Mehmet's troops broke through the Theodisan walls and they ran the five or six miles through the streets of Constantinople, killing civilians. And the 7,000 of them were locked in, in safety in the sanctuary of Hagia Sophia, the great greatest church in Christendom devoted to holy wisdom. And they were praying for the archangels to come down. But according to your friends exegesis, there was not just four, there was eight. So they had some power. Why didn't they come as call down to save everybody from the Muslim killers? Because the Paleogoloi, the last emperor, he was marbleized according to Greek Orthodox traditions and taken away in a state of perpetual suspended animation. And at some point, when Constantinople, which it almost was in 1921, is restored to its Christian roots, he will be reanimated. But they had a lot of archangels is what I'm telling you. And yet one of them could have volunteered to come down and save them from the Islamic so called hordes. By the way, do you know what the word Angelos comes from? An angel? Yes, it's a Greek word and it doesn't mean that he's divine. Angelos means a messenger and an announcer. So all Angeloi are announcers. And why do we get the word Anglo, which is a dirty word now? Because when the Romans reportedly went into parts of the British Isles especially, they found people who were really weird looking pure white. They had never seen any Germans were white, but these people had white hair. You know, they were kind of like elves in Tokyo. And they thought, well, because the Angeloi in scripture are radiant. These people must be look like angeloi. So we'll call them angles.

[Jack Fowler]

Really?

[Victor Davis Hanson]

Messengers. Wow. Yeah, that's disputed that etymology, but I think that's the correct one. I'll check it when I. When this is over.

[Jack Fowler]

I think the praying Greek should have sent for the Swedish. Swedish mercenaries.

[Victor Davis Hanson]

Anglo was a really dirty word when I was a young kid because as I said before, I went to a predominantly Hispanic Eric white school on the west side. About a mile from, right? Yeah, about a mile and a half from where I'm speaking. And even in those days there was 10 to 12 non Hispanic kids because it was on the so called barrio side. And I should have gone to a rural school called Terry School. But my mother thought it would be good to be integrative and to get a real life experience. And I had great teachers, by the way. I got a great education. But they had a lot of pejorative words. One was Okie, you're an Okie or you're a gringo was the most common or white boy. But they also said Anglo. Anglo. And I don't know where they got that. Anglo. That was one of the first words I learned of being white. Anglo and a dirty word. You're an Anglo. Anglos have it, you know.

[Jack Fowler]

Didn't you elect the Anglo as the freshman class president in high school? Were you not the freshman class president?

[Victor Davis Hanson]

That was very funny. I was a junior and I was vice president. I was a senior, excuse me, as vice president of the student body. And the president was so called white. But there was a really contested election for the next student body president between a Hispanic person and a white person at that time, Selma High School, which was not like my feeder school, it represented the entire community and it was about 50, 50 or maybe 60% Hispanic, not 90 as it is now. In any case, my colleague, who was a student body president as a senior backed the white candidate and I backed the Hispanic candidate. I really liked him. I thought he was the better qualified. And the only thing is he appealed to numbers like Latino Solidarity and they thought that that was unfair. So it was a disputed election. And so we went. I was his representative and my colleague who was the student body president was the other candidates. And it was kind of deadlocked and everybody didn't trust. There was accusations that everybody was stuffing the ballot. So we locked the box, was locked in the principal's office. And the principal read us all of the complaints of stuffing. And he said, right now I want to know Mr. Hansen and Mr. I won't name his name. I still know him. The president vice. He said, you. They didn't let the candidates come in because they didn't want them arguing. Said, you are the representative, the campaign managers of each. And I was so they said, do you want me to open this box? And I said, yes, I think I don't. There's no evidence. There was none of tampering. And the other guy said, yeah, we won. Everybody knows we won. So they opened it, we counted, and the so called white candidate lost. And immediately he said, no, no, that's not fair. Victor's wrong. It's not fair. I said, well, you agree? Well, these things were. Ben campered and his father was on the school board. He said, I'm calling my dad immediately. And I gave this really impassioned, self righteous, snotty little speech about. I said, you're arguing that people are trying to use undue influence because they're Hispanic. And it was right during the beginning of affirmative action. And there had been a lot of people angry because there were three or four people who were going to UC campuses who did not have a 3.5 average who were Hispanic and three or four who didn't get in, who were white, who did so. Affirmative action. But I said, you guys are all angry about affirmative action, but you're doing affirmative action too. You're saying that because your dad's on the school board and you're white that you can change the rules, but you can't. So we have to abide by your word. And we had to sign a little thing too, that. And so he never. He didn't speak to me for the rest of the year about. He was so angry. And when we had the. We had a Mexican American president, he was just as good or bad as anybody else. The next year we had a black president. He was really good. I knew him really well. So this was supposed to be the height of racism in Central Valley? Very. No, it was poor whites from Oklahoma, Mexican Americans, blacks, they all got along pretty well. As I remember then we had a. 1972, there was a Hispanic president. 1973, I think there was a black president, Schudenbach. And we had a. The year ahead of me, there was a brilliant black woman who was our vice president. So it was pretty much, you don't hear about any of the. In the revisionist history of the dark days and racist days of America. But 50 years ago, it was not quite what everybody thinks it was.

[Jack Fowler]

I have to read an ad. But your story there is a wonderful story and it kind of reminds me a little of Napoleon Dynamite, the movie. I don't know if you've ever seen it, Victor.

[Victor Davis Hanson]

Was that the one with the pig? No, I thought there was some.

[Jack Fowler]

No, but it's about part about a high school election in Bopa, Pedro. And check it out some point. It's a pretty fun movie. But first, now, Victor, I want to take a moment for our sponsor, Hillsdale College. I think you've heard of this place. Hillsdale College is offering a brand new free online course called the Federalist. Together, the various chapters of the course explain how the United States Constitution established a government strong enough to secure the rights of citizens and safe enough to wield that power. And today, it's our responsibility to pay attention, to be vigilant, they might say, in order to preserve and protect Republican self government. Hillsdale's online course on The Federalist includes 10 lectures, each about 30 minutes long. You can take the course at your own pace. There's no cost to sign up. Enroll. Here's where you go to enroll. Hillsdale Edu course courses promo the Federalist. So go right now to Hillsdale Edu VDH to enroll. I had a link in this copy. Go to Hillsdale Edu VDH to enroll. There's no cost. It's easy to get started. That's Hillsdale Edu VDH to enroll for free Hillsdale Edu VDH we thank the good people from Hillsdale for sponsoring the Victor Davis Hansen Show. Victor, hey, here's headline. Appeals Court panel quashes Judge Boasberg's Contempt Proceedings over Alien Enemies act deportations. Victor, your thoughts on the quashing of Boasberg? And I wonder, will he ever behave?

[Victor Davis Hanson]

What's your point?

[Jack Fowler]

Well, he's been put in his place by the appeals court, but I think he's a man who thinks he's going.

[Victor Davis Hanson]

To do it anyway. There's 750 of these judges, Jack. Lower district court. And I think the estimates I've read are 400 of them to 450 are left wing. You and I would never have heard this guy, right? I've never heard of him before this year, have you? And now we're talking about him. And we're talking about him in a lot of context. So I think your point is that they don't really care what the law is. They do know one thing, that if they stay for a month, three months, and they cost the Trump administration time and money and attention, then where they live and with whom they circulate, they become folk heroes. Did you see what Judge Postberg did? I know him. That's amazing. He just took on Trump. And the louder and the more obnoxious and the more paralegal, meaning parallel to the law or contra law Contralegal, the more famous they get. And in the old days, if you were reversed, if you were a district judge and a circuit court reversed you or the Supreme Court, that was something that was to your shame. I know my mother was an appellate court. She was a superior court judge and an appellate court, and she made sure that she tried to cross every t and I never to be reversed. And when she was in appellate court, she thought long and hard about reversing a lower court because she knew that if she did, even if she was correct in doing so, and she did a lot, it was really traumatic to the judge. These people don't care, though. They have no legal reputation. They care about, oh, I'm Judge Boasberg and I got reversed five times by the circuit court and 10 times. No, he didn't. I'm Judge Boasberg and I'm a folk hero to the left. I stopped Trump, I delayed Trump. That's how they think. And it doesn't matter what the case is.

[Jack Fowler]

They won't admit that they are just another form of politics for the Democrat Party.

[Victor Davis Hanson]

In the left, they look at even worse than that, Jack. They think, ah, well, Hikem Jeffrey has no power. Sad. Chuck Schumer has no power in the, in the Senate. Joe Biden's out. The Biden family's a joke. We have no presidency. We don't. We only have Kanji Brown and Elena Kagan, and gosh, we don't really have any power there either, that we, you know, we've got Sotomayor, we got three women on the court, but they're outvoted and they're not necessarily brilliant jurists. We don't have any plebiscite action because we're on the. Nobody wants to vote for men in locker rooms or open borders or windmills. But we've got the district judges, and that is our ace in the hole. They are courageously on the line stopping Trump. No one else can do it but them, and they can't do it for very long. They're kind of like the great warriors in a besieged city. They're holding out against the Trump attackers. That's how they view themselves, as tragic heroes. And they don't care about the law. They take an oath to uphold the law. They don't care about that. They just, if it's Trump's fingerprints on it, it's going to be overturned. They have, as I understand it, there were more challenges and stays to Trump's executive orders in the first seven months and the entire Obama eight years that were overturned. I mean, that were initially overturned. So that's their only mechanism right now. That in street theater, you know, and, you know, doxing ice agents and putting on kickboxing uniforms and making videos or potty mouth slurs. But maybe, maybe firebombing a Tesla dealership, kind of gloating that Donald Trump was almost killed on social media. Oh, he missed that kind of stuff. That's all they have right now. It's going to be very interesting, the midterm, because history says to us Trump cannot win. Only four times in the modern era has the in party been able to gain or hold seats in the first midterm election of their four year tenure. And Trump's going to lose. He only has a 7, 7 house margin, so he's going to lose. I'll be, you know, I'm not sure that's true. If they keep it up, they should just run ads all day long of Jasmine Crockett. It's jasmine. And then 10,000 people coming across the border. That would be a good ad. And then maybe, I don't know, a guy on the stand getting first place, that's obviously a male and a swim contest said, you want this? This is what you're going to get.

[Jack Fowler]

Yeah, well, there's a collective freak show element too.

[Victor Davis Hanson]

Did you see George Will the other day in an interview with Bill Maher?

[Jack Fowler]

Somebody asked me, I hope you bring this up with Victor. But he said, I saw the clip where he said he wanted Mondami to win in New York.

[Victor Davis Hanson]

It sounded outrageous. But what he meant, I think was, although he's very clever, he had kind of a twinkle in his eye. Ostensibly he meant, I'm willing to sacrifice the welfare of New Yorkers for four years under this socialist communist rule, because now and then the American people need to be woken up and get a, you know, a slap in the face what socialism really does when it takes power. Therefore, it will be a good wake up call for America. But I don't know if he meant that sincerely or he's sort of thinking the country has been taken over by Trump and this is what they deserve. So I don't know what he meant, but I take him. At least I want to take him. What I think he meant not literally.

[Jack Fowler]

Yeah, but I have other reasons to be critical of him over the last few years. But we already have a lot of cities in America that are destroyed, burning hell holes.

[Victor Davis Hanson]

Because all I would say to George is just come out here and live in California and look at the California legislature. Yeah. What do you think Oakland is? And I've been to Oak. I was driving through Oakland about three and a half weeks ago and I didn't know. I thought I was going to use a restroom. So I pulled off an exit on 80 and then I saw. When I pulled into the service station I thought I was going to fill up a half a tank. And I looked around and I thought, you know what? This is not wise. And I just took off. I went back on the freeway. It's not. It's not a safe place. It really is. So George, all you have to do, you don't need Mondame. Jack makes a good point. Just look at what Oakland has become. Look what San Francisco became under London Breed. Look what Karen Bass has done to Los Angeles.

[Jack Fowler]

Yeah, back again with the. You know, this is nothing new about this or these. We think the AOC leftists are a modern thing and they are in their way. But what happened to Detroit in 1968? Detroit was the runner up to be the Olympic city.

[Victor Davis Hanson]

And then it had the Highest GDP in 1945 of any major city. Highest per capita GDP. It was a Renaissance city that was the real catalyst for the war effort. Vehicles and things for World War II. It was a booming city. It was destroyed. AOC, you mentioned AOC. I just remembered. AOC's. One of her community liaisons is under investigation because she, I think she was a Palestinian or sympathetic to the Palestinian. She posted a social media telling people that this particular Bronx high school. Is it Bronx your place or Brooklyn? Brooklyn or I think she's in Brooklyn, but yes, Brooklyn. That it had a large Jewish population and they drove Lexus, as she said and they were Zionist and they should go after them. She tried to what, tell people to go harass them?

[Jack Fowler]

Yes. But I wonder why was like Sacramento President Wood.

[Victor Davis Hanson]

Where was aoc? Yeah. I condemn this in the clearest terms. I have no association with this former employee. They're not going to do that.

[Jack Fowler]

I feel deeply for Jews in America, I always have. But the difference in the last few years is really troubling.

[Victor Davis Hanson]

You know what I find really weird? I'm 71 and in my lifetime I've never been asked if I was Jewish. And in the last three years I've been asked at least three times by people at airports or something or I've had five or six emails saying are you Jewish? Meaning that when I write a column supporting Israel, the first thing they think is not whether the article is well argued or correct or anything incorrect, but it's A Jew who wrote it. It's really weird. October 7th had the opposite effect of what I thought. I thought it would wake people up to anti Semitism, but it unleashed all this anger and it really, it's going to get worse. The Democratic Party, they unleashed this. They let open borders at the southern border and then there were no visa audit or background checks from people. Even Mr. Khalil, you remember that was temporarily in detention to be deported. The Columbia. Is that his name? Khalil? Did you see what he said the other day? He said that he concluded that October 7 was necessary. It had gotten to the point he didn't want to admit it, but he said, you know, looking at it, it just had to happen. I wonder what he would say if a bunch of crazy Jews had broken into Gaza. The IDF had said that we broke down the barrier. It's free raping, killing, torturing time. And we get 6,000 kibbutz residents swarm into Gaza to rape and kill and behead and loot. Wonder what he would say then. It's a no brainer. Here's Gaza. Every Jew got out in 2005. 6. The Bush administration said, we support elections even if Hamas wins. Hamas wins. They threw the Palestinian Authority opposition off rooftops, ethnically cleansed all of them, got them out, sent them back over to the west bank, said this is ours. And they had 20 years to create an emirates on the Mediterranean. No Israeli was going to bother them. They had tons of UN food, money, Gulf money. All they had to do was one thing, just say, you know what? I don't care about Israel. We got Gaza, we have the West Bank. We're going to show the Jews that we can make this paradise on earth and then we can adjudicate, maybe a border change once we are in a position of respect, honor and wealth. And all they had to do was that. And immediately they took the money, they diverted it, started building the tunnels and started killing Jews and trying to get just destroy things. Everything they touch, they destroy Hamas. The Unmitas touch.

[Jack Fowler]

Well, Victor, we've got to get one more topic in. And since we're talking about fights, Jewish military, and you're a classicist, there's a very interesting piece about does Homer. How does Homer speak to the heart of a modern warrior? And I'm going to raise this with you when we come back from these final important messages.

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[Jack Fowler]

We're back with the Victor Davis Hansen Show. So Victor, let's round out today's episode with this Is this piece in the Free Press by Ido how does Homer speak to the heart of the modern warrior? And I guess in sense it's discussions with Jewish Israeli Defense Forces. Kind of closed mouthed, can't really talk about what happened. They've seen so much that's so drastic and then there's some effort to have them read the Iliad. So let me read this from this piece. Another student, a fighter in an elite unit, approached me after the course ended and told me he had participated in several injuries, intensive combat rounds that he never spoke of. In the processing sessions that followed, I had no words, he said. But in the first processing session we conducted after I finished reading the Iliad, I spoke for the first time. I finally found the words to talk about my experiences. My student was well trained for combat, but was never trained to recognize what war might do to his soul. He had learned the high moral values of of the idf, such as the purity of arms, meaning that soldiers should use their weapons and force only to the necessary extent and must maintain their humanity even during combat. But he learned nothing about the shocking violence required in combat situations. The Iliad gave him a deeper understanding of what human beings are capable of. The Iliad's ending with Achilles and Priam mourning together gave him an opening for hope. Even from these depths one can return from humanity. I thought this was a very powerful article, Victor, and I want to give you a chance to reflect as you have written several books on the intensity of battle and carnage and of course the Iliad. What are your thoughts about how the Iliad what it might mean to the modern soldier.

[Victor Davis Hanson]

Well, the Iliad, everybody is a. It's an epic poem that was created some time. I shouldn't say created, but it was handed down among a bard class, maybe a blind bards orally. It was an oral poem and it was supposedly right after the collapse of mycenaean Greece Around 1150, there became a mythology that was when Greek mythology was formed in the so called dark age. Population decreases, there's a catastrophic invasion or some type of cataclysm, whether it's natural or man made. And an impoverished successive group of populations sees the monuments of Mycenaean Greece and they can't make them, they don't know who did it. And soon it's kind of like road warrior mythology, apocalyptic. And so they start to. But there is song. So they start romanticizing, exaggerating what the former God like civilization that they see the physical remnant. They see linear B tablets, they're illiterate, they don't know what it is. And these bards are very clever, about a third of their poems. And the Iliad is just one of two that survived along with the Odyssey. And from father to son, or from bard to bard or however the tradition was handed down. About 20 of these poems surrounded. And that's where Greek mythology was formed. And it's the house of Thebes, the Oedipus cycle, Perseus cycle, Jason's cycle and the Sack of Troy Sac. And we have two poems in the 10th year of the war, the Iliad, about the wrath of Achilles. Why the foremost Greek warrior withdraws from the battlefield and pouts. And then the return of Odysseus, one person. We don't have any of the poems about Ajax. We knew they exist. We don't have any about Telemachus, etc. Okay, so in the about 11 weeks of the 10th year, the foremost warrior, Achilles. And again, this is an impoverished society. Around 700, 400 years of this has been going on these tall tales. And each one is pretty gifted. He adds and subtracts to the tradition. And around 700 BC we have writing come back in not bilinear B as the original Greek of the Mycenaean period, but Phoenician letters alpha, beta, gamma. And Homer is the last guy and the scene. I'm just simplifying. Don't correct me classicist, because I'm trying to be general. They write what his version is down. So we have Homer because he's the last one who was contemporaneous with written once you can write. You destroy the oral tradition, so to speak. So we have his version. And one of his many poems was the Wrath of Achilles. And Iliad comes from Ilion, the Greek word for Troy. And it's about Troy things. And in this poem it captures the ethos of the early dark ages that you are judged by your martial virtue. How tough you are, how brave you are, how many people you can kill. And Achilles is angry because he is the biggest killer psychopath almost. He can kill anybody. And he has the gods on his side. Athena, sometime they come down like little kids. Remember, the Greeks don't think the gods are necessarily more moral than humans. They're just bigger and stronger and don't die. So he could. Anyway, the poem is the Wrath. He gets angry that Agamemnon, who's more kingly, that is, he's connected because of birth to the great city at Mycenae, the biggest of the Greek cities at that time. He takes away his concubine. And then Achilles says, okay, I do all the hard work, I kill all the Trojans and you take my stuff that I capture on the battlefield. That's not fair. I quit. You can't quit. I'm going to quit. And if you quit, then Hector, their big champion, will rally the Trojans and get to our ships. And he said, I'll tell you what, when they get to the ships, I made my point. You needed me and you should have honored me. And then his best friend Patroclus says, oh, please don't do this. Everybody will get killed. Grow up. And he doesn't. So and Ajax tries, everybody tries to persuade him they can't. Patroclus gets killed by Hector. Hector thinks he's the toughest guy in the battlefield, the Trojan, he's not. He kills a lot of people. And then Achilles gets angry, said, okay, they got to the ships, I'm going to go. And he goes on a blood lust killing spree. And he finally faces down Hector, who now becomes very sympathetic. I know that I can't beat you. I know the gods won't let me beat you. I know you have divine protection. I know you're better than I am. But I'm going to fight you anyway because for my family who is watching me on the walls, basically. And Achilles kills him. And then he drags his corpse all around the battlefield, humiliates the body. And then he sees the old man, Priam, Hector's father, and he feels bad. And then he gives back the body. Then he becomes sober and judicious. And supervises the funeral games among the Greeks and basically grows up. And so what is the lesson of the Iliad? That a warrior who kills and is praised for killing starts to mature and think, you know what? We're all in the same boat. They're killing us, we're killing them. You've got to show some human compassion to the enemy, even though they're the enemy, he grows up. And that's supposed to historically reflect an addition to the historic oral tradition, where Homer, who was a product of the city state, which was a complex new moral and political entity, not like the Dark Ages, a herder, nomadic culture, and not like the Mycenaeans who spawned the epic tradition, because they probably really did go to Troy in a Mycenaean ships and sack it or something like that. It's a big dispute. But anyway, it shows you that the city state, the foundation of Western civilization, has now got a more nuanced idea of morality. The old morality, help your friends, hurt your enemies, is no longer operative, at least in the character development of Achilles. And so this soldier always sees that and says, you know, I went into Gaza and these people did these horrific things and I started to fight them. And then I looked at the rubble and everything and I saw some of the people and I started to get empathy for them. And I realized that they're human too. And this is conflicted and I need to get some guidance. I read the Iliad and I saw the same thing happening at killing that's happening on me. Does it mean that he became a pacifist? No. Did it mean Achilles then stops? No. He's going to keep fighting, get killed, as, you know, shot in the. But that's not in the Iliad. That's in a lost. Called the. I think it's called the Persis Iliad. The Persus Ilia in Latin. And the Latin translation, it's the destruction of Ilium, the final destroyer with a Trojan horse. That's after the death of Achilles. Achilles gets killed by para shoots a lucky arrow. And then Odysseus has to take the city by stealth again, City State, 700 B.C. contemporary, I think padding of the tradition that shows craft. Intelligence is important as physical strength. It's like an onion. The epic tradition. Each layer was a product of a generation. It's very hard to undo it in modern classical scholarship and determine which is the original Mycenaean story, which was padded during the Dark Ages and which shows the character development and the sophistication of the last generations before writing. Took place widespread. There's a whole science about how to look at artifacts in the Iliad and date them and suggest that the poem is evidence for 1200 BC, 900 BC, 700 BC.

[Jack Fowler]

Well, I guess the takeaway before we leave here, for me anyway, is a warrior can forgive a warrior.

[Victor Davis Hanson]

Yes.

[Jack Fowler]

And that happened, you know, the Union and the Confederacy after the war. They were still meeting at Gettysburg, you know, 50 years later.

[Victor Davis Hanson]

Yeah, that's a very good point you make because a lot of people are talking about the statue toppling and changing military base names and all of this, and they don't quite understand that from 1865 all the way to the 1920s, there was a lot of animosity in the country. And people did not forgive the Southerners for being secessionist. And the Southerners said, we were not successionists, we were fighting for our state. Only 3% of our state owned slaves. But you were invading our territory. It was hatred. And the federal government tried to do step in. I mean, every political party tried to balance the ticket with a Southerner, especially Democratic party, because nobody voted Republican because that was associated with Lincoln's victory in the Civil War for 100 years. And nobody wanted to invest in the South. But as I said the other day, it's very ironic. The south became the north and the north became the South. The north became racially obsessed. The north became status. The north destroyed the middle class. And the new south doesn't seem to care about race. And blacks find it more conducive to live in the south again than the North. And there's a middle class in Florida and Texas, Tennessee, in a way there's not in California or, you know, Michigan. So it's ironic. But my point is that's why all those statues are there. That people now with modern 21st century, post modern morality condemn. But they were there for a purpose, to heal the wounds of the country. That's why you have Robert E. Lee, you know, everywhere. Or Stonewall Jackson. It wasn't because they were saying they were perfect people. They were just saying, got to give the south something. All those Westerns remember Jack, that the Searchers. John Wayne is kind of a Southerner. And Allen Ladd, remember in Shane, he's a Southern, he says, you're no good Yankee. No good Yankee liar. Doesn't he To Jack Palance before he shoots them.

[Jack Fowler]

Actually, some of the John Ford, the trilogy. Well, Tyree is a.

[Victor Davis Hanson]

Hollywood. It's very funny everybody, because Hollywood was left wing to the core, Communist socialists. But in the 1930s, and 40s and 50s, they stood up for the underdog and they thought that these Southerners were impoverished. They were misunderstood. And all of their movies showed that the heroic gunfighter was from the south and he had skills that the Northerners won the war through numbers and money. But the Southerners, they were kind of and that was even in the Clint Eastwood movie, remember?

[Jack Fowler]

Oh, sure, Good, the Bad, the Ugly.

[Victor Davis Hanson]

The Good, Bad and the Ugly. And also, you know, the outlaw Josey Wales, he was a Southerner that was tormented by Northerners, not to mention Gone With a Wind. So it was kind of Hollywood's rewriting of history to support the underdog. And even I was, I don't know. In high school and early college, Joan Baez had a big hit. She took that band song the Night They Drove Old Dixie down changed, I think a couple and she, she became left wing. Joan Baez, anti war protester, was singing the Night They Drove Dixie down, which was a love song to the Confederacy. And then all of a sudden they said, nope, they banned that. I think they didn't play that anymore on radio.

[Jack Fowler]

Someday we'll sing it. VICTOR hey, we've got to conclude here because I've tortured we're getting over, but I just want to read read one comment from one of our listeners. This is off of YouTube. So many comments. We try to read them all, folks. This is from Gail Talman, 122. Victor I was born in 1950 and I have never listened so close to anyone talking on a political platform as I have you. And the history tidbits you throw in are so interesting. I hope you continue on this delightful and enlightening conversation. Your views are going up because I have 13 grandchildren and 14 great grandchildren who I tell continuously, you must listen to Victor Davis Hanson. They come back and tell me they are listening and love your show. While the grandsons say they enjoy it.

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[Jack Fowler]

This is from Gail in Tennessee Chronicles. So that's just a lovely.

[Victor Davis Hanson]

I'll have to get my granddaughter to listen to it. She's 15. She doesn't even know what I do. I think. What do you do for a living, Grandpa?

[Jack Fowler]

VICTOR yeah, I want to thank people who write me and say thank you for doing Civil Thoughts. That's the free weekly email newsletter I do for the center for Civil Society. So if you go to civilthoughts.com, sign up, comes out every Friday, 14 recommended readings. You're going to love it. It's free. Victorhansen.com do subscribe Victor, you've been terrific as of course, as ever. Thanks very much for all the wisdom you shared. Thanks folks for listening. Thanks for watching. We'll be back soon with another episode of the Victor Davis Hansen Show. Bye bye.

[Victor Davis Hanson]

Thank you everybody for watching and listening.

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[Victor Davis Hanson]

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[Victor Davis Hanson]

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